Onyx Storm: Gods and Isles Deep Dive

0:16 Hello, I'm Ronnie. I'm Abby. And this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. I don't even know what episode we're on. I think this is 7. I think it's. Seven, OK, great. I think it's seven. OK, it's 7 If you're not including bonus episodes, I think we're on set.

0:38 True, and that'll have been out by the time we release this. Hopefully exciting if we stay according to our plan. Yeah. This season, if you haven't been listening, is focused on the Imperial series by Rebecca Yaros. Quick disclaimer, these episodes contain spoilers for the entire series up through Onyx Storm.

0:54 If you have not finished Onyx Storm, you should save this and come back later. Also, due to the contents of this series and who we are as people, this podcast is rated R and should only be listened to by those uncomfortable hearing explicit. The last couple episodes we were light on that disclaimer and then we cursed like sailors.

1:11 And so I think we should just permanently leave it in the Indian. Yeah, okay. Sorry guys, we curse. We curse. Be careful with your children, indeed. All right, Each week we are diving into a specific topic in depth. We've been following that structure. So at this point, we can say that's that's kind of our structure for this podcast, but we may change it up. But for the Imperial series, we've been picking a topic and we've been discussing it in detail. We come with receipts.

1:38 We have quotes to back up any theories, so you can follow along if you're skeptical. But sometimes we think of things on the fly and we just kind of summarize the quote. And if you're super curious, comment on our Instagrams or our Tik Toks and we will share the exact quote with you. I think we've been pretty good about that so far.

1:54 This episode will be focused on the aisles and the gods. This is a long-awaited one for me. I feel like we've been talking about aisles and gods in every other episode and keep saying like we're doing an episode on this. So we'll hold back. I'm very excited for. This. I'm really excited about this one.

2:09 I feel like when I went back and reread the aisles chapters, I, at least for one of them, have a completely different view than I did the first time we went. Really, two of them. But one of them I am like completely, completely convinced that everything we've been told is basically a lie. I'm very excited about it. I have guesses as to which one that is for you, but I agree. I, I felt like heading into this, I was nervous because I felt like I had dropped so many of my most exciting God's theories already in prior episodes with like the Dragons and with like who's Aiden and Violet parallel. And I was pleased to find that as I went back through the aisles that there's like still more to talk about. So we can recap those if we want

2:46 to, but I think there is actual new content which I'm excited for. I totally agree. And also on that note, at least I personally, I know I'm changing my mind on lots of things all the time. I am going to kind of reserve my right to do that and still feel passionate about what I'm saying at the time.

3:03 Like I think, you know, everyone should have an open mind and as you learn more, you should be willing to change what you've previously said and change your views. So like I don't have a specific example, but I'm sure that I've said things before recorded on this podcast that I now might totally contradict. And I apologize if you're keeping score. I'm sorry.

3:21 I know that must be frustrating, but like I think that's what's so great about these books. You go back, can you learn more? And you're like, well, I was completely wrong actually. Like I was totally wrong. Wait, can you tell the listeners, can you tell the listeners what you said about Leo? Because I so so that everybody knows here. Abby does first pass on all social clips and my favorite quote of the weekend was you describing your own Zodiac sign. Please share with the class.

3:45 So I'm not really into the Zodiac stuff, but it was like I can't even remember what it was. But if there was like a chart on Instagram and it's like what signs are other signs, favorite signs? So like and guys do not come at me. I am spewing nonsense right now like I don't know anything. We don't know.

4:02 But it's like Mary's favorite sign is Taurus, like Cancer's favorite sign is Pisces, blah blah blah. And then it got to Leo. Leo's favorite sign is Leo. They're 100% sure they're correct about all things. And they're great clips, all of them are great. But Abby clips the most dramatic clips of herself confidently saying these specific theories and then literally 2 weeks later she could say something that completely contradicts the last theory that she flipped. But you've been having great one your your social clips take off like way more than mine do.

4:38 Like you've been having great ones lately. And can I bring up the dragon scale thing or do we want to save that? No way it's out by now, so bring it up, yeah. OK, so Ronnie had a Ronnie had a theory in our Dragons episode that the Wyvern are that the venom are basically capturing the Dragons to make dragon scale armor for the Wyvern. And I'm going to be honest, at first I was like a little bit skeptical.

4:59 I was like OK I hear what you're saying but that sounds pretty far fetched right? I was rereading the ending of Onyx Storm for this episode. We're we're going to do a whole ending of Onyx storm also. But I was rereading it and there is a line in the last chapter of Onyx Storm where basically Zaidan says like they won't, they will not remove a single one of her scales. And I literally just texted to Roddy. I'm like holy shit you're 100% right. This is exactly what they're doing and I love it. That's the case for both of us.

5:27 For listeners, we're going to do our next episode is going to be like a response episode to stuff we hear from you. And like so many of things that we're building on are things that like one or the other of us said like weeks ago. We're like even more excited about it now. So we do get some things right for sure.

5:43 I feel like we're building towards a unified theory here. It's just like, I know there's a lot of ping ponging around we. Were close last time we were close to something big. We'll get there. Corrections, omissions and social media shout outs. Yeah. Do you have anything to share with the class? I do. I'm really excited about this one because you kind of, you let this is kind of both of our corrections, omissions, social media shout outs.

6:07 So basically, to recap, I said that Seagal's last rider died 50 years ago. So Zaidan's grandfather died 50 years ago, right? And you said, wait, I thought Seagal was 50 years old, right? You caught me like right on the spot. I went back. I'd like, did a fine tooth comb deep dive here, right? OK, here's the evidence we have about Seagal's age.

6:30 Spoiler alert, the Dragons are lying. Like that is my only conclusion here. Like, no. OK, so here there's four quotes that I've basically filled but the first one, and this is the one I was saying about her rider died. So this is on This is in fourth wing chapter 23. Taran and Segal haven't been separated for years.

6:47 Her last writer died almost 50 years ago. I believe this is right after threshing when Jane is talking to Violet and he's like oh shit, did you know that you just bonded Seagal's maid, Zeidan's Dragon's maid. So Tannen Seagal haven't been separated for years. Her last rider died almost 50 years ago.

7:02 OK in fourth wing chapter 8 when we are learning about Taran from Kaori for the first time in that dragon class, Kaori said this one is a little over 100 which makes him about middle-aged. So now we know Taran is a little over 100 right? OK so Seagal's last rider, that's information from a human from a professor. That's information from a from a professor. Taran is a little over 100.

7:23 The Gales last writer died 50 years ago in the Zaden POV Lotus chapters, which let's be honest we've all read. If you haven't read them, go read them. They're fucking great. In the Zaden POV chapters, Segal is teasing Zaden for going after for having a crush on Violet when when Violet is like 3 years younger than him and he says and you're 50 years younger than Taryn.

7:47 Your point? So we have three pieces of age here, right? We have Taryn is a little over 100. Segal's last rider died 50 years ago. Segal is 50 years younger than Taryn. So OK, maybe there's a scenario here where Segal was like 3 years old when she bonded. However, we have another piece of evidence here.

8:06 We know that Atrium Riddix dragon Atrium is on the younger side, right? We can tell by the way Taran talks to him, like basically the way that the way they're joking with each other. Atrium, we find out at the beginning of Onyx Storm is 22 years old. So this math does not add up because it seems to me a dragon needs to be at least 20 to bond, right?

8:26 So someone somewhere is lying about their age. I think almost certainly Taran and Segal are both lag about their ages. Well, I don't know, right? Like if Taran is lying about his age, and Zaden knows that Segal is 50 years younger than Taran, Segal's not lying, maybe, right? Like that Taran could feasibly just be much older, and Segal is also much older, and that math would work, but whatever math we're currently being served does not.

8:51 Right. I don't think Zaden's necessarily lying, but Segal's not 50. She's she's way older than 50. Yeah. And I think, I mean we see and Dharna go into the dreamless sleep when she's like what, 2:00-ish? I think she's supposed to be two. And they said it was early. And they said it was early and forced, right by the fact that she used so much magic.

9:08 And I mean, honestly, when I was reading back through this, because we had the same. For those who haven't watched the clip, go watch the episode. It's funny, right? You say something and I'm like, wait, wait a second. That doesn't add up. Hold the phone. Yeah, the thing that I thought of immediately is like, who is Segal's elder? Like, Because I feel like I anchor a bit in elders for like, who's in charge of who?

9:30 Who's the oldest? We know that Kodak is the black elder in the Navarian Imperian, and we know that Andarna could bond because she had no elder. That was it. So the question is for me, who is Segal's elder? How old? I mean, we don't know. The only elder we know is. Yeah. So anyway, you heard it here first.

9:48 Probably not first. I'm sure other people I figured this out, but yeah, scale is not 50. I have one minor omission for this episode, and it's related to something that you brought up. I think it was in the Zeidan episode about Zeidan potentially blackmailing his way back into his title. And the exact phrase I think was you are the son of a traitor who blackmailed his way back into a title.

10:11 And when I was rereading the aisles, actually, I came across a quote from Halden that said obviously you're a fucking Duke. Llewellyn made sure of it didn't, and he, the second most powerful title in the goddamn Kingdom, goes to a Ryerson of all bloodlines. This to me corroborates Satan's story of how he got his title back and does make Fenn likely the traitor. And so I think maybe it's in a history episode we should dig deeper into why Fenn is the blackmailer. Like how did Fenn get the title?

10:41 Because I think it's becoming more interesting and it it could totally still be Zadan. But to me like that quote from Halden because it was from the same source, I'm like maybe actually Zadan's story holds true. Llewellyn made sure that Zadan got his title back and the blackmailing was done by Zadan's father.

10:57 No, I mean, Fenn could absolutely be the blackmailer. I think so. Interesting. But This is why I love this, right? Because the only reason you and I would be thinking that Fenn is the blackmailer was because we did the deep dive on Zative family tree, right? So it's like you have to put all of these pieces together to maybe get at the truth, or maybe it's nothing. Who knows?

11:18 Yeah, I think realistically speaking, 60% of the stuff we talked about is probably nothing. And then I have one social media shout out just because the comment was literally this morning and it's probably my favorite comment I've ever seen on social media video. So this was on our clip about Vennon beyond initiates having to feed on power to survive. Charlene commented when Zayden.

11:41 This is just a funny when Zayden channeled from vice conduit alloy which was imbued with power, he was able to abstain from channeling for 70 plus days afterwards. I think Violets pure power might be Narcan for Vennon man. But that is a great. It's interesting, but also Narcan for Vennon made me giggle.

11:59 Yeah, yeah. I mean, literally. A piece of the conduit this big made Jack able to survive for a week. Something's up with Violet's power. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if she's not pulling from a source that has a finite limit, then. Aisles talk Have you talked to us about the aisles? All right, deep dive on the aisles, you guys already, I assume you guys all know what the aisles is are, but in case you don't, quick recap, the aisles do not exist on the map. And I have thoughts about that, but there are, there are not as many aisles as I thought.

12:30 There are not 7 aisles. There are only 5 aisles. And then there's the minor aisles you have your correction face on. Am I wrong 5? Large and 13 small. Five large and 13 small, and four of them are dedicated to gods. One of them is Deborah Alley. One of them. So we got to Deverelli and three of the God Islands and Onyx Storm real quick because we've gotten we've talked about this on the pod before. I've gotten social media comments about this before. There is there the aisles are not on the maps, right? So there is this question, why aren't the aisles on the maps? Where are the aisles?

13:04 And there is a quote that we have talked about at great length about why the aisles might not be on the maps. Just to recap, when Violet goes to Arisha and she's in like kind of the battle brief version in Arisha in the palace, there's a big map up. The quote about this map, unlike the map at Basgaya, this one is the height and width of the large stage where the curtain would head.

13:25 And it includes the aisles, the five large and 13 smaller islands that surround the continent in every direction. Every direction, every direction. Okay, fine, maybe that's one throwaway line. However, there are other lines that also support that the aisles surround the continent in every direction.

13:43 So our boy Sawyer is from Lucerus. Lucerus is in the northwest corner of the map, bordering the Emerald Sea. Why is this important? We have a quote from Sawyer living in Lucerus. I promise you, the only news we got along the coast came from what the scribes put out as official announcements. It's easy as Markham choosing which news gets published and which doesn't. We aren't even open to trading vessels from the Isle Kingdoms. So the Isle of Kingdoms are short enough, are close enough to Lucerus that they could trade via ship, right? Again, in the northwest corner of Navarre, bordering the Emerald Sea.

14:20 Why does this matter? Quotes about the Emerald Sea. I cannot imagine life beyond the Emerald Sea. No ship has ever survived The Tempest that form its ice tip waves. And the only sailors who returned from her expiration do so defeated. Emerald Sea. Pretty much uncrossable, right? The point of all of this is to get to the aisles, you do have to cross the Emerald Sea. And the Emerald Sea is basically uncrossable by boat. We know that Asher has been to all of the aisles. How did he get there?

14:46 The question remains, how did he get there? Yeah, I think he had to have flown. Yeah. I don't know if it was a dragon, I don't know if it was a Griffin. I don't know if it was basket style like Haldon. But yeah. And they're the only reason to not put these aisles on the map at this point, in my mind, is to not show them being across the emerald sea with that epigraph.

15:05 Like at this point, it's sketchier that they're not on the map. She's really just drawing more attention to it. Definitely, yeah. So I have this problem where I get frustrated with Violet for not talking about certain things in these books or thinking about them. And one of them is like, I think the last trading between any of the continent and the aisles happened like 3 years ago or something like that.

15:25 Like we're not talking enough about how Asher got to the aisles in general. And like who was he allied with and how basically, how did he not have ties to Peromial in some regard or Tyrandor in some regard to actually get to the aisles to begin with? And then of course, like if he does have ties with Peromial, then you can start assuming, OK, Griffin's probably not realistic given the Emerald Sea is so treacherous and we know they struggle to even just get to the warm weather aisles. But there's so many questions about how Asher got there and. Right, because his rank changes every time he writes a new book, which I mean, I guess he could have gone once, collected all this data, written the books

16:05 over a longer period of time. But also, I know we threw this out a couple of weeks ago, I think when we were talking about the earrids. But like going back over this, Violet asked so many times, how did he have the time to do this? How did he have the time to do this? We know and Dharna can slow down time.

16:24 I'm like kind of more convinced than error that earrids can change time somehow, like, and that and that Asher was working with them. Like she she brings it up so much. Like, I really think we are supposed to think about it because it's totally fair, right? Like he is a scribe at a certain point in this. He's working at Baz Gaiath.

16:40 Obviously he has Lilith. He might even have kids at the point that he's writing some of these, Like how do they not notice he's just gone for months, you know? Yeah, and the kids were born, frankly, pretty far apart. Like Brennan to Violet is more eight years. Six years, because Mira to Violet is like 6.

16:58 Yeah. Yeah, Brendan's. Yeah. Interesting. And Lilla's not going to stay home and raise the kids. Sure did not, no. They seem to just have a culture there where the kids are touted to wherever you need to go though. So. Right. But but this is this is also a good point because we know from, like the little quips that Dane and Violet have with each other that they were also moving around, right? They were moving around all the time in her childhood. So like, yeah, when did he have time to go off and explore the aisles?

17:27 Big mystery of Asher. Asher's just Asher remains probably a secret rider, perhaps able to manipulate. Perhaps. Or at least allied with someone who potentially could. Yeah, slightly more realistic. OK, yeah, and now I'm thinking about your theory that earrids were secretly on the continent the whole time.

17:46 I think that still has legs. Yeah, like, doesn't that make sense? Like Asher finds and befriends an Earrid. The Earrid's like, I'm going to show you what the fuck is really going on here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, as soon as if I'm an earrid, right? As soon as I catch wind of somebody with the means. And he's studying them, right?

18:03 Yeah. To help figure out how to get the vennon to go bye bye like I'm going to talk to them. Right and the right the earids can talk to anyone you don't. Have to bond. Yeah. And there's no, there's no reason to believe, in my opinion, that Asher would have bonded them because they seem perfectly happy to interface with humans and even support humans without bonding them. So.

18:25 Well, we solved it. Solved. That's all done. So in conclusion, conclusion are furious Asher finds secret era. It's hiding on the continent. I see. That's not impossible. No, I think we were led to it with that throwaway line from Zayden. Like, do you think a den's been hiding in front of the Imperium this entire time?

18:46 Yes, actually. So Asher finds a secret hidden era den on the continent. They talk to him. He tells them what's going on. They say, OK, it is imperative that you learn as much as you can about the gods and the Isle kingdoms. We're going to take you there, get on our backs. You're going to fly. Because every Sorengal is a writer, don't you know?

19:08 He learns everything he can. And they manipulate time while they're doing this so that he can learn as much as possible, but that no one realizes he's gone. He comes back. He writes these books over a period of time to leave for Violet. That's the theory. Is there a balance where if you take time then you lose it and die?

19:26 Welcome back to this. We didn't even warm up this episode. We haven't even started talking about the aisles yet. Yeah, OK. Maybe. Yeah. When we were thinking about Asher potentially engaging in some time manipulation activities, aided by the earrings to do all of his research, he just drops dead of a heart attack far younger than you would expect somebody to drop dead of a heart attack. Did he take a bunch of time from some other plane of existence right where he was off doing whatever he needed to do and he had to give that time back in our current plane? Yeah, I mean, nature, nature likes everything in balance. We're almost bordering on sci-fi here, but I think it's Rebecca literally said.

20:06 Rebecca literally said at one point, imagine anything that could happen in a fantasy world. Like that's the limit. Yeah, Yeah. Wow. OK, all right. Starting off so strong here. OK, OK. Anyway, that was fun. That was fun. Anything else general that you wanted to talk about related to the odds before we talk about each? Something fun that kind of helped me frame the episode. That's not specific to anyone aisle, but it's been helpful in how I think of each of them.

20:32 As we step through these, I feel like it's going to become apparent. The aisles each have this like fatal flaw due to the fact that they each worship one God and over index on one facet of like all the pillars that the gods represent. And I think this is called to our attention in chapter 30's epigraph.

20:51 And on this form, it says it is unwise to favor one God above another. Better to shun them all than show favoritism amongst a jealous, prodigious pantheon. Which is such a fun quote, first of all. But I also think it's interesting, right? Because all of these aisles worship one God and they all have kind of fallen out of grace in some regard.

21:11 Like they're they're trying to get power, they're propositioning Queen Mariah and peromial. Like they're trying to come back, but they're all worshipping one God rather than all of them. So this is that. I think it's so fun. It's like we get so little about the gods. And I had forgotten that epigraph, right?

21:29 But to call them jealous and prodigious at the same time? Yeah, they don't get along, it seems. Yeah, there's so much insight in that. I mean, we've, we've hypothesized before that we don't know all the gods. Well, we've hypothesized that there's a secret 7th one. Yeah, yeah. Sure. I feel like as we, as we talk through these, like you, you get to understand in each you're like, you might not be living the way that that gods would want you to live because you're just.

21:55 Following looking at you Hidotis. I know you're about to come for Hidotis. You are. And I do think it's also interesting that the aisle kingdoms have like there, there's a quote. Having refused every proposal from the Aisle kingdoms, Queen Mariah has named her distant cousin, Viscount Dakaris of Cordon, as her heir.

22:11 As the Viscount is living in his fifth decade and has no direct heirs of his own, the decision has not been a popular one. I just think it's so interesting to think about the fact that these aisle kingdoms are trying to ally, which is not new information to. Us right like that's what's interesting point. They're trying to ally with peromial. They're trying to get back in somehow, it seems, but they won't ally with Navarre.

22:32 Navarre. Well, some of them do. Yeah, as hell is happy to, Yes. OK. Anything else general? Now I feel like we've already touched on so many interesting things that we haven't even gotten into. We haven't even started talking about the gifts. Holy shit. OK, OK, OK. I know the gifts are going to take us, take us to big places. Let's start.

22:50 So we're starting with Dune. We've already talked a ton about Dune and Unbreal in general, and I'm going to apologize in advance. Most of the content that I've amassed on this is related to Unreal and Dune is kind of secondary, but Unbreal, We talked about this a fair amount in our Dragons episode. Abby had some really interesting theories about Tear and having been to Unbreal before, when I went back and read through this chapter, I was like, this city is built for Dragons. Absolutely there's.

23:17 No. Other way around it. So just to recap, context is important right? Unbreal is the Isle dedicated to Dune. They have cream colored beaches, they've got white capped teal waves and their port city is called Sonarum. There is another town 2 to 3 miles from Sonarum and then nothing for 40. So we know that this is a big ass island, OK. And I stole, I think that's how you pronounce it, is the capital.

23:43 And it's described as only a 20 minute flight, but the cavalry takes 2 hours to get there and they're armed with crossbolts like there were Dragons here. And they affirm that in a way by saying we haven't seen Dragons here for centuries. So we know that there have been Dragons. We know that the vegetation there is muted green, the same as Deverelli's pigment has been sucked out.

24:04 The magic there is non existent. The vegetation is not weak and it's a hot and humid. It's like a sepia filter. On everything sepia filter. And we know that they wear their temple attendance, wear blue robes. I thought that was interesting because I'm also thinking about the Dragons that align with these.

24:24 And then I think there's a few interesting things that we haven't yet dove into. And I want to start by building off of your point from the last episode. And then there's a bunch of stuff that's totally unrelated. So you have brought up right that Terran is weird on he's like, can you stop thinking too hard to Violet, which he never says right now, always telling Violet to dig deeper, go deeper.

24:48 And you brought up that there are many times where he's like, just stop, like pay attention. Don't think about this right now. I wanted to go figure out what exactly he was telling her to stop analyzing when he was analyzing it. And so the first time we hear it, it's recognizing the claw and the emblem and drawing a relation to Dragons. He says it's similar to ours.

25:07 I fell Terran as we cross under the thick gate, they have a claw on her symbol suggesting a common origin. He says focus now, analyze later. We are analyzing right now. Then when she starts recognizing that their hair is like hers, she says her hair looks like mine. And he says survive first so you can be curious later, focus. And then the last time is when she was thinking about the emblem of dune tattoo on the priestess's forehead and started to think about its connection to theophany. So she said she must be at least 75 years old. How long would it take for such a tattoo to fade to the point it's unrecognizable?

25:42 My stomach lurches into my throat. There's no way. And then she's cut off tear and says focus. And Theophanies description, as we know later, is the scarlet veins beside her eyes remind me of a masquerade mask topped by the faded tattoo on her forehead, and the red glow around her irises is 10 shades brighter than Jack's. A sage, probably even a maven.

26:01 And were it not for the physical signs of her lost soul, she'd be stunningly beautiful with high cheekbones and a full mouth. But her skin is eerily pale, so she looks young. But the tattoo on her forehead is faded. And the way I interpret it is Violet is like, shit, how old is theophony if the faded tattoo on her forehead is faded?

26:18 And so I think based on these three things, we can infer that Taryn is terrified that Violet is going to deduce a connection between Dragons, unbreal and theophany. And we found out the theophany on real part, but we didn't really find out about the Dragons and unbreal and theophany part. And I have a suspicion that Taryn himself is where Dragons fit in.

26:39 Your thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I'm. Still 100% convinced Taryn has been to Unbreal or OK. I have a couple more things to kind of back that up, and then I have more thoughts on Unbreal in general. But yeah, so the Queen says this aisle hasn't seen fire breathers in centuries, right? That's what she said.

26:55 It's not. This aisle has never seen fire breathers. This aisle hasn't seen fire breathers in centuries. We just talked at the top of the episode about how Taryn is fucking lying about how old he is. So I think it's completely reasonable that Taryn has been here, right? Maybe 203 hundred years ago. I'm like kind of more right, 203. 100 years ago? How old do we think theophany is? Realistically?

27:15 Somewhere in there. I don't know. So the other thing I noticed, there's three different types of soldiers described in a different colored. Uniform, different colors. And different symbols on their uniforms. So the first one, that's the soldiers that they first see when they like set the trap from them. Those soldiers wear green pale Leathers. Their emblem is 2 cross swords over a horseshoe, right? And they ride horses.

27:42 Then they get into the city. There's two different types of soldiers described here. One of them is pale blue uniforms with metal grease. We don't get much, we don't get much information about them. The second one, the second ones are wearing silver uniforms with armored chest plates. These seem to guard the temple. the IT seems like like the green soldiers just kind of guard the island, but the silver soldiers guard the temple. Their emblem is 2 swords gripped in the center by a claw, right? So it's not only like Rebecca specifically put this in here, right?

28:12 And in my mind, that is analogous to, OK, we have our infantry division and we have our rider division, right? So it's not like everyone has a claw. It is specifically these soldiers that are tied to Dune that are meant to protect the temple that have the claw in their origin. Absolutely 100% Dragons have been here and they are specifically tied to Dune, not just unbreal. They are.

28:34 They are here to protect the Temple of Dune. Yeah, or they're protecting the Temple of Dune from the Dragons. We don't know, right? It's almost like a mini. Like Bizgayeth type structure, right? Because we have infantry. Exactly, exactly, exactly. We also have riders. And so maybe their highest military rank was riders. And Asher has that quote, right?

28:52 That's like, I don't, I don't have it. Maybe you remember it. Yeah, here we go Got it. There are times I look at parapet at the very act of threshing and marvel that Dragons have not been to unbreal. What we call treacherous is their idea of primary school unbreal. The Isle of Dune by Second Lieutenant Asher Daxton.

29:09 Wow, so that's such an. Interesting idea, right? Like maybe the Dragons have been to Unbreal, see that the way that Unbreal treats their soldiers, right? And then it's like, all right, we're bringing this back to Navarre and we're going to build a war college that does exactly the same thing because we need soldiers that fight like Dune.

29:26 I don't know, interesting too. It's. Just interesting that Asher would even write that because I feel like one look at Dune and even the things that he documented about Dune, you would deduce the Dragons have been to unbriel. Yeah, but maybe he can't. Say it. Right. Yeah. So he's like leading the horse to water. Yeah.

29:43 And Violet should really read more closely. Violet needs to be asking more questions. Violet needs a podcast and Tara needs to stop cutting her thought process off God damn it. Yeah. OK yeah. Interesting. Agree. Can we talk about Violet defeating Marley for a second? Yeah. Because that was another thing that.

30:04 Was important, right? So maybe we should actually start with just the battle in general and the fact that the three of them were selected. So we know. Like it's pointed out multiple times, the law in Unreal is one fight, not 3, right? Why were there three? There has to be a specific reason that their queen specified 3. And I actually want to bring this up because I was curious whether you well, was it the?

30:26 Queen, so that'd. Be my first. Question. Yeah, I don't know. But I wanted to talk about the the part. Do you remember the part where the soldier goes and tells? I think it was the priestess. I'm not, I don't actually remember. I'll find it. She, the soldier, goes and tells them that they want an audience and that they're willing to fight for it, and he gets cut down and demoted. Do we know why?

30:48 No, I. Don't think that made any sense. Yeah, there's got to be a reason. Yeah, I don't know all. Right we. Don't know, but we know that the law is one fight, not three. They seem to have planned for three from the start because three walk in. Danes, Aiden and Violet are not yet selected, but three walk in. So we know that there's they had planned on three for some reason.

31:08 And we talked in the Violet episode about Dan and Zayn being 2 of Violet's paths. I don't know whether we can interpret this battle as a deciding factor, but Violet and Zayn winning, if you do interpret it that way, is a pretty clear answer that Zayn is her path. But it you've said this right, it's important to note that she is the reason they won, right? If she had not been able to free Zayn from the hold, if she hadn't put a dagger in his shoulder, it would have lost and then they would have lost the two out of three that became the new rule for them.

31:35 OK. And then we also have Violet defeating Marlys. And so in chapter 30, Zaden summarizes the challenging law by saying no. But defeating your best in combat earns US entrance to the court at the defeated opponents rank, right? So. So Violet is the queen of unreal, A lot of people. Think that.

31:52 That Violet is. A candidate for being Queen of Unreal. I actually don't think that I think Violet. I think what that means is Violet gets to enter their court queen rank, not become a member of their court at queen rank. And I think that supports your precog theory that Violet will become queen of something big.

32:09 Well, we're definitely going towards Terador. We're definitely going towards Terador. But is it bigger than Terador? Yeah. Is she Queen of everything? At the end of this, yeah. But I think that's what that. Means is she's now she's on par with Marlise in terms of how she interfaces with their court.

32:24 Yeah, I think that's. Fair. Like I don't right? I don't know what enter court means, right? Like does it mean? Become a member of court or does it literally just mean this is the level of person that you can talk to basically? Obviously she talks to the queen, but so does Zaden. Yes. But at the end when she says OK, Eric like go talk to Marlise, Marlise says I only speak with people who have Yeah, that's true.

32:45 That's true. So like to her, Eric's rank was not recognized. He was like you would invest me. Yeah, I think we. Are setting ourselves towards a unreal Violet Alliance, which will probably be important in the upcoming Tears rebellion anyway. Yeah, I'm somewhat irritated that that wasn't that her hair wasn't more of a topic of conversation when they were in Unreal. How could you not see yourself as an Al? I don't know.

33:09 OK. I had a couple more things on Unreal but I don't want to. I have little onesie twosie things that are less. I don't know if you. Noticed this, and I certainly have not combed all these books to see if this is the only time that this happens, but the voice in Violet's head is back, so I am pretty convinced it's soon.

33:25 Like I'm pretty convinced it soon. Oh, I see on your face you're not convinced it's soon. Well, at one point. The italic voice in her head after she had cracked the steps or seats or whatever she cracked with, lightning says. Or dude, yeah. I know, talk about. Herself in the third person these yeah I. Think so?

33:44 I think so. So these was a Ding. Against the Dune theory. So when the captain. Finds her, and he says you're not worthy to have an audience with your queen. It was so easy for us to find you, she says. We made it easy, Captain. I cocked my head to the side and flipped my dagger to pinch its tip as Terran growl growls at my back, low and mean, then italicized just the way I like him.

34:06 That, to me, points to Dune, right? Because I think that Taran has been to unreal before. I think that Taran has a connection to Dune. Whoever is speaking in Violet's head right now is speaking like they have an intimate connection with Taran. Sure could be violent. I think it's so much more fun if it's not. It's so much more fun if it's done. And then this quote that you're saying right here, Marla says, was that you?

34:24 She said, and Violet goes, no. I shake my head. I mean, the heat, the anger, the snap. Weird. Just coincidence or Dune? There isn't any magic here, right? Yeah, so I thought that was just Rebecca having fun and being like, yeah, this is Dune, right? Like Dune is in Violet's head. I have seen and I've had people come at me with some being like, Oh no, this is an dharna. And dharna has bonded with Violet before any of this started.

34:49 Like the voice in the Violet's head is always an dharna. No, because Violet could talk to Anharna here. And when Violet talks to Anharna, it's in quotes. It these are not quotes. This is just italic. And I don't think that the voice is anywhere else. I think this voice only comes back on Unreal. Like like I said, I have not reread all three books to see, but yeah, the voice. The voice is a topic in our mailbag episode, and so I'll definitely talk about it more there. All right.

35:14 Well, I'm very excited. For Mailbag, yeah, we'll talk about that more, OK. But I did notice that, and I'm so glad that you did too. On the lookout for? This voice, Now I could be completely wrong, could be nothing, could just be the little voice in everyone's head, but people don't think it's nothing.

35:28 Great fun stuff. OK, so this I thought was very fun. And this is not unreal, this is just general Dune stuff, which is fun too. The last thing I wanted to talk about was Theophony's death, right? And this gets back to your power of the gods theory and the power of the gods being like a huge player in this. When Violet stabs Theophany with the with the stone made from the temple in Unbreal.

35:51 So two things happened. Sorry, I'm going to take us back for a second. So see, Theophany says to Violet. When Violet figures out that Theophany was a priestess in Unbreal, she says, do you know the pain of never being allowed to return, of knowing that it would sever the very thing that's kept me untouchable all these years? This is like your favorite quote. You tell me about the school all the time, right Sever the very thing that's kept me untouchable all these years, right? When Violet stabs Theophany, she bleeds right? And Theophany is like surprised.

36:20 So the quote is. So Violet stabs theophany then she sees blood and stops how her eyes flare and she topples to her knees. Stone doesn't kill Venin. You are never just Ven And I reply Dune is a wrathful goddess to high priestesses who turn their backs on her. So she bleeds and she's surprised right?

36:38 She says how like this doesn't make sense. I shouldn't be dying. So go back to the beginning of Onyx storm when Violet is interrogating Jack about Vernon. Jack says why don't you ask me the questions you really want to know? Ask me when I turned how I turned. Ask me why only initiates bleed right So sages and mavens aren't supposed to bleed.

36:57 So Theophany, when she died, I don't think she was venom anymore. I think basically what happened is Dune severed her being venom. Dune is like you are not venom anymore. And because she was so old and because she had been stabbed, she desiccated. But it's not it's not the same as when you stab them with an alloy hill to dagger where the alloy kills them like she was unmate, basically, which is obviously huge for Zayden.

37:23 Yeah, like this is a huge implications of this art are huge. But I I think you're right about the power of the gods. I think the power of the gods has the ability to unmake the vent. And I think it's going to be a huge part. Yeah, I mean that. Line was just a like, that line to me was Rebecca handing us basically the closest thing possible to the answer. But we have like 11 different paths that we could have gotten there based on everything we've been told about dedication and the fact that Violet and Zayn got married in the Dune and the fact that she bled.

37:52 Like, yes, I think 100% the power of the gods is the answer. Just like, in what format? Like do we have to stab Zayden with a fucking temple dagger? We have to do that Well, right? Yeah. So. No, I think you're. Right. I think it's the power of the gods, I think. I think that's what I think that's the answer here.

38:09 What that looks like, how that happens, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, but I think that Rebecca did that intentionally. Like I'm here for that sort of thing. Like if we get like a carrot of this is gonna work, I can chase that carrot. That's fine. This is our carrot. This is our carrot. Yeah, it's here.

38:24 Yeah, yeah, of course. The flip side of this which I was looking at for Malik a bit later, is that when Varish dies, he also bleeds. But I don't, I'm not convinced that Varish was like a Sage or a Maven, if I'm being honest. But we'll get there. It's fine. We also. Weren't, yeah, Varish wasn't a confirmed venom like you not confirmed venom, just very much believe that he is. But he's not been yeah confirmed. But yeah, I mean, sages and mavens don't bleed like that's for sure here.

38:53 Like they don't like. That's what Jack said. Said ask why only initiates bleed. Yep, Yep. Agree and theophany. Was bleeding so not a venom anymore. Bitch. Yeah, I'm. Just like how do we do that without them desiccating afterwards? That's what we need to figure, right? But that's. What I'm saying like theophany has been set up to be centuries old, right? So that's what kills her.

39:14 Old age and probably being stabbed but. Yeah, but kind of, yeah. What happens if Avenin walks into the Temple of Dune? That's what the next experiment that we need to test well. Did Zayden walk into the temple correct? I. Can't. He? Did. He did. They got married there. Where is he now? What's going on? What does he look like?

39:33 What power does he have? He's in the aisles. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe not, maybe maybe not. We'll find out. All right, That's all Child and he's. Still been and he's in trouble right, because there's nothing there for him to feed on. So there's that. OK, other things on Dune, just to wrap it up because we are in fact an hour and it seems.

39:52 Impossible, given how much we have left to talk. And we have so. Much left to cover things that I just feel the need to point out but don't have great answers for the pupils being dilated. We saw multiple mentions of Violet saying like what drugs are involved in this temple? The high priestesses pupils are dilated when they speak.

40:09 I think the drugs is just a first of all, it's interesting, right, that we live in a world where there's only been two drugs that we've ever been faced with and Violet is immediately assuming that Dilated Peoples are drugs. I wonder whether. The pupil dilation is connected to the ability of oracles. That's like my only hypothesis so far is that's related to how they see and we we know nothing we. Think that.

40:33 Dedicating yourself to Dune affords you some power, and so we've not seen this wielded in any format in any way. The only thing we have is that the High Priestesses pupils are dilated. So what's going on there? Is it mind work? I don't know. I also think it's noteworthy that Marley's does not yield until Violet wields. So it's clear that Violet wielding meant something to her. A message from Dune and she says you cracked something that stood for or you destroyed something that stood for 700 years before your arrival.

41:01 Whatever was there was pre unification. Everything that was built there was pre unification. Exactly so. So this is. Interesting too because they mentioned Endeavour rally that the that the temp that the palace has stood for 1000 years too. Yeah, and guess what Island doesn't have? Things from pre unification anymore? Did I get it right?

41:23 And then the only other thing. This is not specific to Unbreal, but I think it's interesting and confusing to me is the reason that I noted it. Violet notes that she can't shield, which confused me because she has enough magic to communicate with her Dragons, but not to shield from them. Why? And then I be.

41:37 I remember. Being confused who said it? I was not clear if it was. Violet or Tanner and Darna. It was Violet saying please control your emotions and Darna, I can't shield here. Don't you think that's an incredibly itchy thing for Violet to say? I thought that was. So out of care, I could see Taryn saying it, she said. Be careful with your emotions.

41:56 I don't know, It's kind of rude, but it's also kind of Fair. Like she needed to get shit done and then Darna was flooding her with fury, which was difficult. But I think the important question is like, are those two abilities from different sources, like shielding? And they'll have ground magic to shield, and she has something else.

42:14 Like why? Why can you not shield when you can speak with your Dragons? Yeah, good question. Yeah, I don't know. That is a good question. Or is it an oopsie? It could be an oopsie. It could always. Like I feel like we should just actually add this to our blanket disclaimers. These all could be oopsies. Who's to say?

42:34 So that semi wraps. Unreal. I feel like we have 17 different things to follow up on, but I think it's just so funny because. Definitely. The first time I read these books, I was like, why are we going on this fucking journey to the aisles? Get me back to the mainland. This doesn't matter at all. And now I'm like, you fool, you fool, this matters so much. I think I stand.

42:54 By my initial reaction, which is the aisle should have been their own book. We needed a full book anyways. Tell us about notice. All right, so. I'm going to start with the fun stuff, and you're going to immediately disagree with me. I know that you are OK. I think it is possible that we all owe Talia a huge apology.

43:14 OK, Tell me why. All right. Again, we're starting with. Hidotis. And then I think we'll go into the Hideon. So when we get to Hidotis, the people, the person that we be immediately is named Ferris. He is a member of the Triumvirate, which is a democratically elected Wisdom council, as far as I can tell, that rules the island.

43:32 We get a couple of interesting things about his description, like his physical appearance, the first thing that popped out to me on my reread. The intricate metallic embroidery of his tunic speaks to money, as does the sparkling red gem at the top of his cane. OK, we haven't talked about this on the pot at all, but I have seen crazy theories on Instagram about this. One of the books that Violet reads about the Venin is called Red Regalia right?

43:58 So there is a theory going around that basically when Rebecca says someone is wearing a lot of red, that is a clue that they are a secret venom. This is why people think the Duchess of Moraine is a secret venom because she is decked out in rubies. That is like her constant description that she is decked out in rubies and she does some sketchy shit. Theophany Sword is also Ruby hilted so that is a clue that the venom go for red gemstones.

44:24 Duchess of Marine has a giant Ruby necklace and big Ruby earrings and also Kat's. Gift is a Ruby I know. About how I know, I know, I know, I know, all right? So that on its own might not necessarily be enough to convince me that Ferris is Venom, right? Whatever. He's just fond of a red Ruby. However, the next thing we find out about him is that his eyes are purple. Not naturally purple.

44:52 Purple because they ingest a mineral that they believe makes them smarter. Notably, Talia, who's also from Hedotus, has brown eyes. She does not have purple eyes. Her eyes are brown. OK, so we have a red Ruby. We have eyes that are are no longer naturally colored because of this mineral. We also know when they get to Hedotus, somehow it is paler than Unbreal.

45:16 And Taran even makes a comment here like there must be less magic here than in Unbreal. I don't don't know how it's possible to have less than nothing though, right? So that's kind of a question we don't have an answer to. So we're walking along the path that there have been ven in here. There might be ven in here right now. Here are other sketchy things that that Ferris does. In the dinner scene where everyone has been poisoned Talia, we find out that Violet has poisoned the triumvirate before they poisoned Garrick and everyone right? Ferris finds out that Talia is dying. Does not give two shits.

45:49 Literally doesn't give two shits. Violet says about this. Ferris isn't poisons her son like he. Clearly does not give a shit about Talia. Ferris isn't responding to a threat. To his own life, or even his wife's. It goes against every base instinct I have. I would have forked over the antidote as soon as I'd realized Aiden was in trouble, right?

46:07 So he doesn't care about his wife. He immediately asks if killing the riders would kill their Dragons, right? And he has planned to kill all the riders during dinner, right? So he's clearly interested in killing the Dragons. And he talks about the foolhardiness of Dragons, right? So, Ferris says, to tie your life to another's, especially something as frail and easily breakable as a human, seems a foolhardy thing to do, right?

46:29 So we have any comments particularly on the. Griffins who die when they're humans die, right? So we have kind of a. Anti dragon, anti Griffin sentiment, but some very venom like tendencies. What Ferris wants above everything else, right, is knowledge. That's what he craves, that's what he wants. He wants to be seen as the smartest person in the room no matter what, right?

46:53 Theophany promises Violet if she turns knowledge right? So what she says to Violet is, I'll let you keep both your Dragons while giving what you, what you want most in this world, control and knowledge. Ferris has this incessant need to be right. Ferris doesn't care about the people around him. His eyes have been dyed purple.

47:13 He's got a red gem. Interesting. I think he's Venom. I think he's secretly Venom, I think. And so I know you're saying to yourself, what is he draining, right? How could he survive on an island with no magic if he's venom? Violet tells us the answer. Because Violet says what do you think will happen when the venom come from you for you? He says we're safe, we haven't have no magic here. Violet says, Foolish, foolish man. I shake my head.

47:37 They'll drain you, right? So it's Ferris going around draining people because he thinks at some point Avenin promised him knowledge beyond his wildest dreams. Because we also know that Hideon, there are, there are quotes that Hideon does not answer the prayers of the people who pray to him, right? And they start dinner with a prayer to Hideon, right? So if what Ferris wants his knowledge above everything else and Hideon is not giving it to him, is he going to turn to another source to get this knowledge? All right?

48:09 I think also. What's interesting about that theory as well is one of my notes is I think 150 years ago something really bad happened in hidoses. 150 years ago, the triumvirate raised the city, cut down all of the buildings because they were quote not efficient enough. And by the way, Heidian, the name of the God means the one who cuts down. So I think that's interesting.

48:33 I didn't even rebuilt it with what they called intention. And This is why everything there is like so uniform and and grab yeah and Violets quote. About that was you destroyed the historical base of the city homes your citizens have lived in for generations. Yes, it's beautiful and efficient, but it also shows your intolerance for things that are not right. So all of this is pointing me towards Ferris, perhaps the whole triumvirate, We don't really know, but certainly Ferris I think is is venom is at least working with the venom. However, there is a flip side to this in that he clearly cares about the life of his sons because that is what ultimately gets him to well.

49:11 Does he yield? I don't know. But he clearly cares about the life of his sons, right? Like he he reacts very poorly when Violet says well your sons are going to die. But we still have that quote from that epigraph from one of the chapters in Onyx Storm about Venom Woman who leaves her son. So as we've discussed previously, it is possible to be Venom and still love your children, still love your wife. I don't think Ferris gives 2 fucks about Talia personally. In which case, kind of poor Talia. She's had two husbands now who clearly don't give a fuck about her.

49:40 Here's where I think we owe Talia an apology. Even if Ferris is not a Venom, which I think he is, she gives Violet the antidote for dinner, right? She's talking to the cook. The cook has blue on his fingernails. She's from this island. I think she knows exactly what's going on. And she gives Violet the antidote and she's insistent about it. Remember?

50:02 She's like pushing the tray through the door. She's like, you have to take this, right? But you think Talia knew? Like I do. I seem to be in shambles about the entire thing. Yeah, I know. I think she's. A good actress. I think she's just a fantastic liar. Yeah, I she gives. Her the antidote before dinner right, like I think she know that's that's my theory. I think Talia is not the terrible. I mean, obviously I don't think she's a great mother, but I think she knows what what Ferris is if. Ferris is Venom.

50:30 Do you think she knows? Yeah, probably. Maybe. No, maybe not. Maybe not, maybe not. But I think at the very least she knew Ferris was planning to poison Zayden, and I think she knew how. And I think she was like, I have to save his life, I can't let my cannot watch my son die. And so she gives him the antidote before dinner.

50:49 Definitely, definitely by. That Talia knows that Ferris, Like, it doesn't even seem like it's unique to Talia's knowledge. It seems like everybody knows, based on Asher's text, that the people of Hidotis are very disingenuous. And yeah, like, it's almost like Kedian's worshippers are more interested in trickery and like, a loophole than like, yeah, deceit than knowledge, thinking that they're smart for, right? It's more than it's not.

51:17 Knowledge that they're seeking, it's recognition that they are the smartest people in the room, that they're like, it's like victory. It's. Victory. Or it's like absolutely superiority over hunger for knowledge, which is interesting to me, right? And the scribes. Specifically, don't pray to Heedian.

51:34 Like there's a couple quotes in here, I have them. Your scribes don't pray to Heedian for wisdom. Knowledge and wisdom are two different things. Scribes are careful not to ask for what should be earned right? So like the scribes don't pray to Heedian for knowledge but the people on Hidotis do and we know he Heedian doesn't answer prayers basically right? So like why would you keep praying to him? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

51:57 Not very wise in my opinion, but if we're so it going back. To that quote about the pantheon, right, and folks who don't get along, Heedian seems like the problematic one, like the only God that we've come across so far where I genuinely think that there's a nefarious nature about him or none of this is actually. Hidotis or there was a real Hidotis that was peaceful, right?

52:22 And it's gone. Yeah, Yeah. Interesting. I had AI went a totally different way. That's great. Love it. But not nowhere as insightful. I would argue that the people who worship Heidian would be the most likely, like most susceptible to any bribery by the venom because their deity has no moral compass that it's imparting upon them. And this is where it's important that they don't worship any other gods like they.

52:46 They are basically living under this. We have one goal and it's for our minds to get more knowledge into it. And so I think their moral compass is just absolute utter bullshit, like non existent. And so I think something really bad happened in Hideotus 150 years ago. I think it could have been an entirely different island. We already talked about that.

53:04 I also. So what I took away from Ferris's physical description was a question, do we think silver hair can correlate to more than one God? Ferris has He has silver hair, red, curly. Hair with. Two strips of silver and such blue eyes that they're actually purple strips of silver doesn't make it sound like it's aging. So is there a form of dedication that can occur? Tahitian.

53:24 Well, I think certainly there's. I think you can be dedicated to any God. This is interesting because Markham is also described as having silver brows and, like, eyebrows. And Narelle Endeavorelli is described as having silver either hair or eyebrows. Right. So, well, this is the question, right? Like, sometimes Rebecca uses silver, sometimes she uses Gray, just to connote that someone's, like, older. Yeah, but I think the Markham thing is interesting, right? The idea that people who are seeking knowledge have this silver to them the same as people who are seeking war, not seeking war, who are dedicated to Dune, dedicated to some God. Yeah.

54:05 Interesting. Yeah. I also really want to know what Andern is doing when she scrapes her talents. I know like I. Don't feel like we have a great answer? For it, but she has scraped her talent in the sand every aisle. 2 aisles that I've voted and I'm sure it's. She does it at Hidotis. And Zahelna, yeah, for sure.

54:23 Those are the two that I. Took down she so for the listeners and Dharna scrapes a talent in the sand twice. The first time is in Hidotis and it said that she scrapes the talent in the sand and says I do not like this place, my kind would not settle here, we should leave. She does the same thing in Zahelna, but we don't get as much narrative narrative out of it.

54:42 And what we're talking about is like, what is she gaining? What is she doing with that Talon? What's the test there? Yeah, and I did notice that when the Eared show up, they also flex their claws in the sand. Like that's the first thing that Violet notices, right? Is the claws flexing in the sand.

54:58 So are they also looking for something? But with and Dharna, it's like a single. She's like scraping a single Talon. Yeah, yeah. Or are they? Sensing magic or sensing something and I I think one kind of crazy like this is totally out of left field and not related to the aisles at all. But do you remember when Jack Barlow is in that cell and says that he can hear the echoes or feel the echoes of violets? Pain from when?

55:23 She's being tortured. Down there by Varish, I'm like, is there some element of of the ability to like send something that's happened somewhere? We've kind of been introduced to it through Vennon, but as we know, like Irids and Vennon are mirrors in a way. Is it time? Like is it? Is it a time thing like again like you can, yeah, I don't know.

55:43 Or is that Jack Signet? Can Jack like feel pain in spaces maybe? Unanswered question. The only other point that I had that was more related to the fact that it was on Kedotus that they realized it. I think Thalia 100,000% reinforces our suspicion that Tyrandor is going to regain. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:04 Like she says, Tyrandor is the largest province of Navarre. Much of its territory lies beyond their wards. So it's allegiance to the Kingdom has always been weaker than the others. It would not surprise me to find in the course of this war, Tyrandor regains its sovereignty, which is why a lifetime alliance was secured.

56:22 So two things, right? One, Thalia took a bet that Tyrandor would become its own Kingdom when she entered that contract marriage. That's another situation in which the aisle kingdoms are vying for some sort of alliance with not Navarre necessarily. Like she's taking a bet that it's not going to be part of Navarre.

56:39 And then it also potentially means that an alliance between Tyranidor and Hidotis did exist. And I hypothesize that that's how Asher gained passage. I definitely, I think that Asher knew Fen. I think they had to know each other. I love that idea. I mean, I don't know anything about Fenn, but in general I love that idea. I like to think that Fenn is a good dude. I don't know, does he blackmail his way? Into power Well, as we've discussed. Machiavellian figures exist in these books. It's interesting too, because I noted that they, the citizens of Hidotis, wear these muted green robes. Yeah, but I think it's interesting that they have such an affiliation towards rubies.

57:15 I didn't pick that up. At least Ferris does. Yeah, right. And those robes are? Described as being like the scribes. So is it? Yeah. Is Baz Gaieth in fact just a nomination, which is a word that is used? In these books and I want to. Talk about it when we. Talk about Amari. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So OK all.

57:37 Right. I think we must continue. We must continue. I forget what's. Next I have Zahelna God. OK, I mean, let's get. The summary out of the way and just dive into the gifts right? All I have is the gifts. The only notes I. Have are. So let's set the context because I did take. Context for each Zahelna is the aisle that is dedicated to Zionol.

57:55 I have no idea whether I'm pronouncing either of these incorrectly, but it's a different aisle in terms of their journey in more ways than one. Right? One, the aisle has some magic that's like one of the first things that's noticed. But the actual first thing that's noticed is that the aisle is full of people who are just welcoming them and waving.

58:13 And so the way that I interpret Sahilna is it's it's a place where people live almost recklessly carefree because they just trust that luck will guide them. There's no crossbolts. They wave at everyone incoming and they just stroll by the amphitheater, hoping that they'll happen to be there when the Dragon's alive.

58:30 And isn't this city? At like the base of a waterfall, Yes. Yeah, just like crazy. Yeah, yeah. It's very illogical the way that they behave, and I think I remember there was a description. That they build much higher skyward. Yeah. They built skyward, yeah. Yeah, yes. And everyone. Else is kind of.

58:52 Sprawling out specifically said that the building. Styles defy architectural logic, and the city was built skyward. They also have obviously richer colors than every aisle, but not as rich as the continent. There's magic there. Zortris is their capital and they make it pretty clear that they have, quote, always revered dragon kind.

59:12 And the Griffins, of course. Yeah, they wear orange robes, which is not a surprise to either of us. Yeah, because we both said. Yeah, we both said that orange dragon are so. OK, so the most important part of their visit to Zahelna that basically turns the entire group sour on this God in this aisle. So just so everyone like is on the same page, right? Like Zahelna as an aisle is extremely welcoming to the group.

59:37 They're like, you play our game, like you pass our test, you pass our challenge, you're welcome with open arms. And after they do pass the test and challenge, they're still like come like we offer you beds, we offer you housing, whatever you want. We'll ally with you. Great. But because of what happens when the gifts are distributed, and we'll talk about that in a second, the group says we're actually going to sleep outside on the ground next to Spoiler Trigger's body.

1:00:00 So let's spoiler alert. This is a spoiler full podcast. No, I know everything. Everything you can't If I would love if someone actually listens to this podcast without having read the books, I'm sure as to what their experience is like. Yeah, you're an insane person if you're out. There. So the challenge in Zahilna is that you have to accept a gift from Zionel, and you have to thank Zionel for it and not complain and just be happy that luck has doled a gift out to you and you'll take it for for whatever it is. I had a note.

1:00:31 I want to go back and reread these books and look at every single time Violet gets dizzy. Violet gets dizzy right before this game starts, and she gets dizzy before a lot of really important things. I don't have an answer for the significance of that, but the first thing that I noticed is as soon as this game was about to start, Violet almost passed out.

1:00:48 Yeah. So I you know that I'm not an endorser of the pregnancy theory. I still don't endorse the pregnancy theory, but I think her dizziness has to be correlated to something. Why bother mentioning it? Well, for you. Know what is called chronic illness awareness? But yeah, true. Yes, fair. OK, so let's talk about the gifts and I'll disclaim this with, and I'm sure you feel this way too, like some of these gifts, I'm just like total swag. I have no idea what they're going to mean. And I kind of think that's just going to be the case, a rusted steel.

1:01:18 Bucket. I actually have a theory for that one, but again. Like crazy, right? Because we know from let's just start with Traeger's, right? Traeger gets an arrow to the chest and that becomes lucky because where they decide to go to burn his body happens to be the aisle that the earids are on. So we know that these gifts bring luck and good fortune in some regard regardless of what they are, but the way we would have never predicted. But that is how that luck would have been delivered. So I think that's going to be the case for all of them. I still think it's fun to think about it. Yeah, I definitely didn't think too. Hard on these because I was like, like, this is going to be. I'm never going to see it

1:01:58 coming, but it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. Mira gets wine. I think she needs to chill out. I went in a different direction. Do we? Want to just do one? For what? Yeah. Yeah. All right, So that's your theory. Mira needs to chill out. I have like a whole. Holy war theory about this entire thing. And wine is obviously significant in in the Last Supper and everything like that. But yeah, my theory is basically Mira needs to chill out. So my my theory was also.

1:02:22 Blood of Christ, right? Like why does the blood of Christ, Christ sacrifices himself for your sins if you believe that? Is Mira going to sacrifice herself is kind of where this is leading me. But also, yeah, maybe she just needs to chill out. I also know there's other places where your mind goes to Christ as well. So yeah, yes, definitely.

1:02:40 I also had just like a fun theory, so maybe we can do Drake's next. So Drake gets an orange tabby and I had a like just for fun theory where I was like maybe Mira gets wine and Drake gets an orange tabby and then Mira gets drunk and they fuck. What does? That have to do with a cat. She loves the cat.

1:02:59 I think that broccoli is. Going to be the instigator for Mira and Drake's relationship. That's my bet. I think that Drake receiving broccoli, the orange tabby, the MVP of Onyx Storm, they immediately start talking about it. Mira has opinions on Broccoli's name. Mira I think holds broccoli at some points. I think that broccoli is going to be the thing that warms Mira and Drake's cold hearts.

1:03:22 Do you know my theory on broccoli? And. What's your theory? And this is actually my craziest. Theory. I know how you feel about. The cats in this book. So, OK, so a couple of things. Especially in fourth wing there Violet is described as cat like so many times. Yeah, like literally so many times. Once you look for it, it is there so much. It kind of falls off an iron flame and Onyx storm a bit. Violet is described as very cat like. We have talked about how she might be touched by every God. In Egyptian mythology, cats are very heavily associated with, like, death, right?

1:03:54 I think that broccoli could be Malik in disguise. I really have nothing for that. Like I just. Yeah. I don't. I don't really have a. Reason for it other than Violet always being described as cat like and that a cat shows up. I mean, the other cat also shows up. We don't need to talk about her right now though.

1:04:11 Like a literal feline shows up. Yeah, I mean, there's always kind of underworld tones to cats in mythology, so I don't know if broccoli is necessarily literally Malik or if broccoli leads them to Malik. Like, I don't think it's a Peter Pettigrew situation necessarily, but these are like. Domino effects type gifts right? My money is on broccoli.

1:04:35 Somehow getting them to Malik and I'm really excited to see if I'm right. I don't think I have that. Yeah, love it. That's probably my craziest theory. On these gifts, OK, Marin gets. 2 orange tunics Where my mind went here is Marin has two younger brothers that are saved from her hometown when her parents are killed by our favorite Benin Theophany.

1:04:55 And I think maybe they'll be citizens of Zion one day or maybe it'll be a way for them to basically get away from the treachery that's going to become the continent in the next two books. Interesting. I had a slightly. Different. It's interesting. My theories are like some of them are like have already happened, like some of them is like, oh, this is symbolism for what happened and some of them is like, OK, this could be what what will happen.

1:05:17 So orange flags are used when they're in in Arisha on the battle map to show new places where the Venin are attacking, right. So there's two cities, Resin and Breivik, that are like, not part of the pattern. And those are mapped with orange flags. So my mind also went to the twin brothers. But in my mind, I'm like, is this a flag?

1:05:39 Are the Vennon coming for Marin's brothers? In a way, the Vennon have actually already come from Marin's brothers. Yeah. But is that going to happen again? Is this going to be important because they went to Orisha? Yeah. Dan gets a slap. So let's just talk about this one briefly. What I thought was interesting is Zadan says he's worried about the implications of that hit. So context, right?

1:06:02 Dane in the beginning of 4th Wing is presented as needing to touch people's faces to read their memories. His gift from Zionel is a slap. We all think it's kind of funny. Zadan says he's worried about the implications of that hit. And so you might be thinking, could he have possibly learned anything from that slap? And I think where you immediately go is, well, there's magic on Zahilna, but not enough to wield. But we also have been told, have been told things that make us think maybe there's more to Dane's magic than meets the eye. Like what's going on with Dane?

1:06:34 We know nothing about his mother. We think his father might be a venom, but we don't really know. And we learn from Sloan that he has an inordinate amount of power. Like what's going on with Dane, I think there's definitely a possibility that he could have magic or abilities that we're not thinking about and could have learned something from that slap.

1:06:53 Basically what I'm getting at is there's been enough evidence that I, I rule out that he was able to wield and see something through that slap, right? So we know that, Eric. Was very was plotting so that Dane comes right Yeah, that Dane did not actually have to come but Eric said no, you have to come. It seems to be pointing towards this slap. There is also that quote an iron flame that I believe I texted you with like 20 exclamation points when I found it so the the scenario is Violet is getting tortured in the dungeon and Varish brings in Dane and Dane says like why wouldn't why wouldn't you just tell me the truth? Why couldn't you just tell me the truth? Violet says, I think you've been

1:07:30 lied to for so long that you won't recognize the truth even when it hits you in the face. And and then Dane gets hit in the face, right. So I don't know what he saw, but I'm 100% convinced that this he finds something out with this slap. And he probably doesn't understand it, which is why we don't know what it is.

1:07:50 Yeah. You think it's something that he would have brought up? Though like maybe he maybe it was so jarring that he had the foresight to not say anything about it. Maybe he just didn't bring it up to. Violet, like maybe he told Zaden or maybe he told Eric. Yeah, true. I do think Dan Zaden have one. It seems like they've developed some sort of relationship in this and he like more parallels is the wrong word. But when when Zaden is talking about how Segal like runs the the show and he's just along for the ride, Dana's like, yeah, same.

1:08:21 I mean, Dane is being. Zaden to Sloan, like Dane, is absolutely taking down to the Brother Zaden playbook. Like. Just applying it to Sloan, like our man has learned some things. He's learned some things. Yeah, yeah, I also just thought of something. OK, this is when they're in on real and basically is revealed that Eric is completely fluent in on Brish after Dana's like struggling through conversation. Eric says close but no, he asked if Zadan is our champion or a Prince.

1:08:50 Don't be embarrassed, Etos. The words sound similar enough. And then he steps forward and replies to the commander in flawless umbrish. Everyone's shocked and then it said whatever he says gives the commander and the priestess pause before she replies. Heard gays darting to me again. Dane says are you serious? Blah blah blah.

1:09:08 Eric says you never asked. And then Eric says I told them who I am and that I'd be the one fighting. Yeah, he's definitely looking. Violet definitely lying 100% he's. Lying. I think he's I. I think we know we we are given all of the clues that Eric is scheming throughout this, but I think the fact that we're given pretty close to hard evidence that he's not saying what he what he's saying that he's saying to these people. I think there's totally potential for Dane having think important significance on this trip that is not just this battle.

1:09:37 Yeah. OK, cool. OK. The next gift Garrick gets a rusted steel bucket. So like there's not a lot to go off of here. However, where I went is that Garrick is a distance wielder, which we now know he needs to carry others and things long distances. And so is he given some sort of vessel that needs to carry something important? I don't know.

1:10:00 Yeah, I had a similarly. Like, I don't know thing, but mine was kind of like the bucket is Garrick at the end of Onyx Storm because like, he's very strong and powerful, like steel, but he's rusty and tired and he doesn't really have the strength to go on. Yeah. I don't know. I really don't know.

1:10:21 I mean, who knows, right? He's a distance wielder. He carries people. He's strong Agree. Eric gets a fractured hand mirror. So there's some depth we can get into here, right? So Eric is actually Prince Cam. He is second in line to the Navarian throne. But he is absolutely adamant that Holden is going to be king Holden's going to rule and it's not for him and he doesn't want it, and that he's going to fight and probably die in this war. Where I went with this is Eric has not taken enough time to look in the mirror, understand how important he is and that he can and should rule in some regard, whether it's Navarre or something else, like he's under estimating his own significance in this entire battle.

1:11:04 I also think that there's an element of a mirror that allows you to see who's behind your back, but I don't really have anything with Eric. That makes me. Think that somebody is trying to play with him at this point because he's been pretty good about keeping his abilities covert. Yeah, I. I was thinking I I had two thoughts with the fractured.

1:11:23 I had three thoughts with the fractured hand mirror. So 1 broken mirror is bad luck, right? Am I making that a no? That's a fact or bad luck? Seven years of bad luck or something? Yeah. We're on the Isle of Sanal bad luck. So this, this is not good for our favorite princeling. The second one, when Dane and Zaden and Violet get selected for their fights, right?

1:11:51 They get cut. And that's how like Dune selects them. Oh yeah, and Eric also gets cut. Eric is getting cut now. Is that like Zenal kind of selected him saying like, I have trials for you? Yeah, Interesting. So. That was kind of my thought. There and then, obviously, because I'm a Harry Potter kid, they don't do this in the movies, but so they kind of do in the movies.

1:12:11 But the Sirius Black Mirror, right, where you can talk to people through mirrors, Is that a thing that exists in this world? How is the mirror fractured? Are all of the pieces in place? Is there a fragment that's missing? Does someone have that fragment? Can you talk to that person through that fragment?

1:12:26 Those were kind of my basic thoughts around the mirror. I think it's interesting that all of these have like a symbolic thing that we can make, but then there's obviously going to be a practical application to like, yeah, I don't know. Zaden gets a very specifically described gift, an empty glass box the size of his foot with pewter hinges and edges.

1:12:48 Where I I feel like I could do a better job with this one, but where I went is that Zayden needs someone or something to hold his soul while he's out doing what is necessary without it. I also think that the fact that it is glass is significant for Zayden because he is the most opaque character out there by design.

1:13:09 And so he has kept his his like being his soul, his mentality, his secrets, walled by shadows, concealed. And he receives a box that is completely transparent. And so anything that you put in it, even if they can't access it, can be seen by everybody. I don't know what to make of the fact that it's the size of this foot.

1:13:27 I thought maybe it's the same size as a dagger. I mean, he puts the blade of Arisha. In it, which he calls a box of nothingness. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you certainly could ward it, right? And then we know that the venom are being kept in the in that chest, right? A rice bed chest or right, ribosad.

1:13:45 Ribosad, I think I wrote under this one truly no idea. I have truly no idea. I do think it's interesting that he calls it a box of nothingness, which as a girl with a science background, the idea of it truly being a box of nothingness, like if that, if that is actually just a vacuum with nothing in it is crazy. But that's obviously not what it is. Yeah.

1:14:05 And. There's a blade in it. Yeah, I like. The Yeah, I think something's going to be held in this box. Is it going to be Zaidan's soul? I don't know. Can your soul even be? Abstracted into a thing. I also think it could be interesting to think about the fact that if like whatever you put in it is protected by Zionel in some way, like he's keeping the gift from Zionel as good luck and then luck protects whatever he puts in it. And so maybe it's not maybe we, we have no way of knowing what goes into it, but maybe whatever goes into it is protected in some regard.

1:14:38 OK, Violet gets a broken compass. There's so many theories on the Internet that Violet, this broken compass leads Violet to Zayn. We know so that the compass does not point N we don't know what it points to. I think it points to something. I don't think that the something is Aiden. I agree. I don't think it's Aiden.

1:14:55 Yeah, but I think she needs a compass to find Satan. Right. But I do think it points her to something. And we hear a lot about. Yeah, I don't have a great one for this. I feel like anything interesting one for this? It kind of just came to me as we were talking. Yeah. When she is given the compass, the guy says to her. Use it wisely And we have just left Hedian, which we both agree was sketchy as fuck.

1:15:21 Is that not? Or we've left Sedotis? Was that not really Hedotis? Like does this compass point to what is actually Hedotis and that's how she actually finds Hedian and that's why he said use it wisely. Like does it have something to do with Hedian and the God of wisdom? Yeah, well, one of my throw.

1:15:39 Away like I tossed it. Precog theories. Was that Deverelli's actually Hedotis? Because they pray. Sorry to no one, I love that. But she already knows how to get to Deverelli correct? So that doesn't. Work with this, but I think it's fun. Yeah, but that that could be interesting Use it wisely yeah. It has to tie back to Hedian in some way, whether it's Hedotus or real Hedotus.

1:16:03 It definitely doesn't have to, but he. Does say use it wisely? It was just the God of wisdom. Yeah. It's pretty on the nose, yeah. I hate the. Idea of this being how she finds Satan, I don't think of it. There's so many other ways for her to find Satan, Like, yeah and so like. I mean things that Violet needs to find right?

1:16:21 Like a cure. A cure? A weapon. Still the Irids, although I guess Aunt Dharna found them. Yeah, but the Iriden, the Irids Browns, right? Like where the Irids? Habitat. It could be interesting, yeah, but I assuming I'm assuming Adarna. Knows where that is now. Yeah, true. Her father. Malik, this is going to get into my pre card corner theory. So let's.

1:16:42 Yeah, OK. We'll stay away from it, OK. All right, Riddick gets a kiss on each cheek. You already know because I texted you immediately after I knew that you had read this part. Actually, for the listeners, this is a funny story. So when we first finished Onyx Storm I threw a book party and we started a spreadsheet stuff which we should have known then that this was going to happen, but I didn't really anyway, so we made the spreadsheet. One of the tabs was all of Zynals Gifts and in the Riddick. 'S gift being a kiss.

1:17:13 On his cheek row, I wrote OK, Judas. So I think that this is a symbol. I mean, a kiss per cheek is a known biblical symbol of Judas. And we know that Judas betrayed Jesus. So there's two ways in my opinion that you can look at this. One is very good for Riddick and 1 is very bad. One is if you just look at the the implication that Judas is related to this, then you could be potentially set up for a Riddick betrayal of some type, which would be devastating. Riddick, he is like the sole defender of Violet. He is team Violet all the way before Zaidan, which not a lot of people are like that, right?

1:17:50 So that's one. But the other option is that Judas's method of betrayal is kissing Jesus on each cheek. And so if you take this literally, this could mean that Luck is going to betray Riddick so much more because Riddick Riddick says his preferred God is idol. Like he he has a line when they're in the town and we know that Riddick. Got really lucky in the kitchen in Hidotis when he almost got stabbed and he didn't get stabbed luckily he just his jacket got stabbed and so Riddick lives by luck. Like he definitely has that vibe. Does his luck run out?

1:18:32 I think that's what this could mean. No, I have no. Notes on this one because I, I think you're right. I just loved your theory. So I don't have any. You just didn't even bother writing A10 out. I was like, Roddy's got this one. OK, well and I'll let you get this one. Cat is given a gold necklace with a dangling Ruby the size of Violet's thumb.

1:18:47 Yeah. So two things. Violet's wedding ring is also the size of her thumb, So they're they're the exact same size. Yeah. I I already, I already said my theory on this one. I think Cat's going to turn Venon. I don't know that that means she's turning Dad Venon. Or maybe she turns Venon to go hang out with Zayden. Yeah.

1:19:04 But the red, the red. Regalia thing the Ruby seemed to be a sign of Yeah Venon. Yeah. Interesting. I had written, I mean, rubies tend to be in most cultures of stone of kings and Royals, and so I thought it could be foreshadowing the crown of Terendora rising to a crown of some something, right?

1:19:24 I don't know. I I personally would be pretty upset if Cat ended up Queen of Tyranor given everything else that's currently gone on. But maybe like, look, if it's in Violet's wishes then I'm all for it. But yeah, I think there could also like that meaning could be twofold, right? Like she could be headed towards Vennonism. She also could be in headed towards a throne, a crown. It's hard for me.

1:19:48 To see how Cat becomes Vennon when she's literally spent her whole life like fighting them. But and and we've kind of gotten past the cat is a crazy bit and his whole life fighting Venom. Zeta, Yeah. I know, I don't know. And then finally. Traeger gets an arrow to the heart. This is the only one where I feel like we have confirmed. Yeah, we know behind it, right?

1:20:10 Like the squad found the ear. It's because they flew to a nearby aisle to bury him. I also like to believe in my own head. This is an example of head cannon, everyone That Traeger's arrow to the heart was allusion to being shot by Cupid. Yeah, no, it is right because. Because he's only on the mission because Cat wanted his.

1:20:29 Cat asked him to her girl. Can't catch a break. I had a comment actually on a tick tock this week that was like I don't like the idea of Cat being with Eric or something. Am I the only person developing a soft spot for Cat? I have a soft spot for her. I think she's been through a lot. Yeah, I mean, sure, girl deserves.

1:20:44 A break, Yeah, not if she turns Venom, but. Yeah, no, I definitely don't hate Cat anymore. She's definitely like on the good side of the good guys. Yeah, I think the squad, I think the Quest squad really softened her character. Yeah. I don't like her with Eric, though. Yeah. No, no, I don't. Either, well, who would I like with Eric?

1:21:03 Sadly, Violet. Just Violet, yeah. Correct. That's right. That's right. Tough. My favorite? Cat moment. Of the books so far is when they're sitting at the table in Hidotis and she just goes, like I said, yes, he said no, yeah, it's awkward. It's a good one. They're that now, and the fact that she doesn't.

1:21:22 Lose her shit when Traeger dies I think is also very endearing. Like she could have just completely lost her mind and she doesn't. Yeah, and she blames herself. She doesn't blame Violet, right? Yeah. Not that I want girls to be going around blaming themselves for things, but it's nice that she doesn't blame to.

1:21:41 Draw. I also think that sets Kat up for some romances. Like clearly Trigger wasn't it. I know, I hope she gets her happy. Ending. I hope Eric gets his happy ending too, but I don't know that I want them to be together. Yeah, we haven't had enough character development. On either side, for me to really have a strong opinion on that so far, OK, that's kind of what I had for Zion.

1:22:00 All he is going to come into play throughout the rest of the books and I think they're going to tie back or I hope they're going to tie back to these gifts and if they don't overtly I will go hunting for how they tie back like at the end of the absolutely five books are out. I'm coming back to this list.

1:22:16 No, I very much. Think it's going to be like it was with Traeger where like on 1st read you don't realize it and then you back go back and you're like yeah and in conclusion. I'm worried about Riddick. I'm worried about Riddick. I'm worried about Cat. I'm worried about Heidian. Is he OK? Don't know. I'm worried about broccoli but.

1:22:32 That's not new. Yeah. All right. Tell us about loyal. All right, I. Don't have that much about Loyal other than what we've already talked about. So we talked about that quote before where most people get married in Loyal's temple, but Zayden and Vile got married at Dunes Temple. I think that I think that's important. I don't think I necessarily will bring up a question of like legitimacy of their marriage.

1:22:53 I have to get this off my chest because it's bugging the shit out of me. Have you seen the theories going on social media this week that Bodie married Violet at the end of the books? Like Zaden set it up so that Bodie and Violet got married? You keep saying things on this. Podcast that deeply upset me. No way that's.

1:23:11 What happened here? Like it doesn't make any sense, but also it's. Literally, they get a marriage certificate. I know, I know. Literally like like Brandon says it is a certificate of your marriage to Zaden. Like it literally spells it out at the end of Onic Storm. Like on what grounds? Are they saying this? I don't know because it upset me. So much, I didn't watch it, but like basically like that's how he's protecting her.

1:23:38 I'm like, no, he's he's protecting her because now she's the Duchess. Either way, whatever. No, no, no. No, the answer's no anyway. Yes. So do I think that he. Could serve as some like standing in Zayden's stead figure to her. Sure. But do I think they got legally married? No. All right, so the quote about people getting married. In Loyale's temple is doubt Loyale would let me in. I mutter can't remember the last time I stepped foot in her temple.

1:24:05 I'd stop praying to her years ago, along with Hedian. Violet does not pray to Hedian out of pure spite. Love and wisdom hadn't exactly shown up when I needed them to. So people typically get married at Loyale's temple. They they got married at Dunes Temple. And then we've talked about this quote before, but while most deities allow temple attendants to choose their timeline of service only to require a lifetime of dedication, Dune and loyal for both war and love change souls irrevocably.

1:24:31 So just this idea again, that sated soul has changed and I think the ending of Onyx storm absolutely supports that. Right. Like love is what he holds on to at the end. I don't have anything else for loyal, but I think we go to loyals Island absolutely in book 4. I know that they got. Married in the Temple of Dune. It would be fun if Satan was touched by loyal. That would be fun.

1:24:52 Yeah, that's what I that's what. I thought originally Also clearly he also has some dune in him, right? He's he's. Described as Dune Huns and he's described as Malik once and Amari once I think, but never loyal. In fact, he calls Violet Love the entire last book. The entire third book. So yeah, not much on Loyal. Not much yet.

1:25:14 More to come. I'm sure. Yeah, not much yet. Yeah. Okay, Amari, so we know that the continent, everywhere except the continent is called Amoralis. It is the territory of Amari. But importantly, as we already talked about right on Amoralis, they worship all God. They just hold Amari above all others. And the exact quote is every other aisle worships 1 member of the pantheon.

1:25:36 And though we celebrate all, we hold one above all others, Amari. And so we already talked about how I think the continent could have potential favor with the gods that the aisles do not because the aisles shun other gods and favor one, which we learned from the epigraph in chapter 30 is a no no. But Amaryllis is interesting, right? Because unlike all of the Isles and other territories, we have this like amalgamation of different gods and cultures. And in Hidotis Violets eyes are described as being an amalgamation of different colors. And so I think this just furthers Violet is aligned with Amari and potentially touched by all of the gods because we've heard a lot about eye colors

1:26:18 being tied to gods, right? And the colors of her. Eyes are blue-green and amber, right? And we have the blue on Dune, and we have the green on Haitian, and I mean amber we don't have yet. Maybe it's loyal. Yeah, maybe it's loyal. Maybe it's venom. Maybe it's venom, maybe it's. Maybelline. Amari is the primary God on the continent, and her temples are the largest, but we also know the Malech and Dune are the next largest temple even though they're far smaller than Amari's.

1:26:44 Obviously the colors on the continent are much richer than anywhere else, and we also know that Violet basically spent any temple time that she did spend in Amari's temple and uses Amari liberally in everyday language we hear. Yeah, think Amari by Amari. Like everything all the time, all the time. Far more.

1:27:03 I would say the second most common 1 is probably Malek for Violet, but we hear Amari a lot and the only other note that I had Arisha's most noted landmark outside of their library is the Temple of Amari. And so I wonder whether Tier and Door. So we're like this whole center of gravity of the continent has been made to be Bizgayeth.

1:27:21 But I think before Bizgayeth existed, Tier and Door could have been the pinnacle of Amari's territory because their temple is a huge landmark and a huge deal to them. So maybe her territory centered in Tier and Endor, which would be interesting because tier Endor is so far from what's now the center of Navarre that it's outside of their warts.

1:27:44 Yeah, I did not have. Any notes on Amar? Really? Like it's not very interesting there's. Not she will be. I think she will be too. Yeah, she looks like Rhiannon. She apparently is usually accompanied by cherubs. That's what I had, but I don't really have anything else. Yep. OK, tell me about Malik, all right? So I I don't have any.

1:28:03 Like super new insights into Malik. But I do feel like I had an epiphany when I was reading this. So I always thought of Malik as kind of like a hates character, like watching over all the souls of the underworld. I don't think that's actually how it works. I think Malik is actually more of a judge and can reject you. So what they're always saying is like, may their souls be commended to Malik, right?

1:28:30 Which means like I am recommending basically your soul to Malik. I'm saying you're of good character. I'm saying you're of high moral fiber, right? Sloane when she shows up at Bez Gaia, that iron flame and absolutely hates Violet, she says go straight to hell. She whispers. And I really mean that. I hope that no one commends your soul to Malik. I hope he rejects it.

1:28:51 Liam was worth a dozen of your kind. And I hope you spend eternity paying for what you cost me, what you cost all of us. So souls can be rejected, Right. And there is a concept of hell, which I think is interesting. It's not just like an underworld where everyone goes. It's like there is. It's it's more like Malik is like Saint Peter at the gates of heaven.

1:29:11 Yeah, Right. He's the guardian of heaven. Like he's where you want to get to. Yeah. Which was. Yeah, I was very. Much thinking. Hades from the Hercules movie, and it's really more like, no, he's actually kind of an Angel, which I think is interesting. So I've talked about this, we've talked about this quote before, but I think it's interesting to look at this from from a Malik perspective. And it's the quote about resurrecting, right? So after all, bonding makes you a writer, but resurrecting someone from the dead, now that makes you a God. I somehow don't think that Malik takes kindly to a mortal treading on his territory.

1:29:42 Your quote about the power of the gods being real led me to think, OK, this is literal, this is literal, that Malik can resurrect people. People can come back from the dead. Does that leave the door open for Asher? Does it leave the door open for Fen? Does that leave the door open for Lilith or anyone else to actually come back?

1:30:01 Did this already happened with Liam in a sense? Right. Oh did Malik literally send Liam to help Violet when she needed help? So the vine is Violet, says Liam, you're not really here. Your hallucination from pain and dehydration? A mirage maybe? Liam says. Or maybe Malik sent me as a kindness. Malik doesn't do kindness, nor does he allow souls to wander about. I'm not wandering Violet.

1:30:27 I'm exactly where I need to be, right? So if Malik sent Liam, which I choose to believe he did by the way. Right. Well then, Malik has a vested. Interest in Violet staying alive. Yeah, right. Yeah. And what Liam says is hold the line 5 Liam rest his hand against my side. And Gaza feels so great. Talking would lead to the deaths of every living thing on this conscience, right?

1:30:47 So that's why that's why Malik sends Liam to prevent death, which I kind of thought is interesting, right? Because if you think about Hades, he wants everyone to die. But it sounds like Malik does not want that. Maybe he doesn't want to do all that work. Maybe that's too much judging. But I think I always thought of Malik as a kind of nefarious creature.

1:31:07 That's kind of how they talk about him. But when you really kind of look at it and if you listen to what Liam says, he seems to be much more on the side of good, on the side of the the angels quote, UN quote. And it's this is where people think she's touched by Malik too, right? Because Malik has a vested interest in her staying alive and her not revealing the secrets of the Tirish revolution.

1:31:27 It's not weird that we didn't. View Malik in that way because Violet, when she personifies him, makes him seem that way. Rightly, right? He says. I can't help but wonder if somewhere on some plane of existence, Malik sits on his throne, angry that I stole a soul from his grasp. Right? They make him sound. Like the devil, they make him sound like he. Wants people dead, but as far as us understanding how his process works, he very much seems like he's welcoming people who are invited into his realm.

1:31:58 It's kind of typical of a God of death, right? To be viewed in both. Did you have anything else about Malik? Yes, yes. I did. I mean territory. Wise, it's interesting that he has no territory right? Like he has a Bay of Malik but nothing known other than that. He also requires the burning of belongings, which just given dragon kind is is interesting to me.

1:32:21 It's interesting that it's belongings and not you. Yeah, it's so weird. Right. And I thought for a while that it was. You and I was like, OK, but then dragon fire is used for execution, which makes it seem like they're out of Malik's grasp in some regard. They're not commending their souls to Malik burning them. Yeah, but the.

1:32:40 But the Flyers, they burn, right? Cat is insistent that they burn. Yeah. Traeger's body. Yeah. Because the Griffins are burned. They prefer to be burned. And Traeger would want to be with his Griffin. Also. They didn't so often compared to Dune. But there's a specific moment in Unreal where the high priestess hints at him being related to another God. That's not Dune.

1:33:03 And so this could be, we just talked about loyal, right? Like, it could totally be loyal, Queen Marley says. Or perhaps, perhaps you now favor another God. She glances up at Taran, ignoring my outburst, and then her eyes slide to Zaden, and Violet says I choose him. Whether she's talking about Zaden or Taran, my answer is the same. This would make sense if Zaden were in some way touched by Malik or touched by Loyal.

1:33:27 What confuses me more, I don't have an answer for it, is that Zaden and Taran are aligned somehow, like Violet is like. My answer is the same regardless of whether she's talking about Zaden or Taran. Who is the God that links both Satan or Taran? Well, and there's the one that curries her favor, which I think we've quite convincingly proved is Malik. Yeah, let's just rehash that quickly. I firmly believe that Malik is the other who curries her favor. Onyx Storm Chapter 64.

1:33:51 A gift from 1 servant of Dune to another. I must warn you, only those touched by the gods should wield their wrath. I will pray to her capital H that she lowercase S need not use it to avoid reacquainting herself. Lowercase H with the other who curries her favor. Her path is still not set from high priestess deserve A to His Royal Highness Eric Gray castle, so reacquaintance possibilities right Liam Malik sent me as a kindness that's option one. We also know the Violet used to talk was Malik quite a bit after her father died to Ashurdash visited. His temple and like maybe.

1:34:25 Yelled at him more than worshipped him. I find it really hard to believe that that Malik is not, in this particular passage, the other who curries her favor. She is trying to avoid reacquainting herself with with death. Yeah. Yeah. And she's hoping that she won't have to use the dagger to avoid that.

1:34:45 And so it's exactly what she has to do has to do to avoid the offony killing her. I have one kind of crazy theory. I don't think you're going to like it about Malik. So a mark of dedication to Dune includes a physical trait, silver hair, some form of power, we think not clear what. And a pull to temple, like a pull towards the subject of dedication are the then dedicated to Malik.

1:35:10 It manifests in a physical trait. They get power and then they're pulled towards that power source forever and their soul dies. Like you said in a From episode, he's the collector of souls. Like are the Ven and Malik's. Army like a misguided army, but we've seen right that dedicated humans to gods do not always do the right thing.

1:35:31 But if the Ven and are Malik's army, is this a holy war? I have a few times in which known Venon are described as meeting Malik right in Iron Flame. After Jack Barlow comes back, Rhiannon says it's like he met Malik and decided to come back a decent guy when he's tutoring first years on the mat and Zaden says you keep your focus on the enemy and your life. To Violet.

1:35:54 He kisses me hard and quick. Even Malik himself couldn't keep me from you. Is he already with Malik in some way like our Venon dedicated to Malik? The thing that doesn't work is that would mean the Malik requires a lifetime of dedication. Unless there's a cure maybe. I think it sets up a. Totally different thing than I thought we were getting set up for. It's a hard sell, I think.

1:36:13 Yeah. I mean, I definitely thought we were getting. Set up for like, all the gods helping to defeat the Venom. Yeah, and it also makes Malik into this character. That we don't want him to be right. So I don't know I mean, but but in your. Defense right? Like if the venom are drawing from the ground and if Malik rules like the underworld, then that would be where his magic is right? It would be in the ground.

1:36:36 I think the only way that it works in a. Way that I don't absolutely hate, to be honest with you, is if there's morally good and morally bad venom and we're just only being presented with the ones who are morally bad. We talked about this in the Venom episode, but the more I think about it, the more I'm like, is there a world in which a, a bunch of people from tier and door who were about to be marked for death, Could they have turned knowing that they were going to be put to death by dragon fire?

1:37:02 Yeah. Knowing that's the only way that they could avoid death by dragon fire. And then, like, started working from the inside. I'm hoping that in the next book, we meet temple attendance of Malik and see that there's another form of dedication. There's no way that this could be true. I don't really want to be true. All right.

1:37:18 Was that your precock? Or do you still have a precock? I have a precock, but it's it's. More crazy. I make my precogs with no basis. I love it OK, precog corner. All right, you know that when? They are in Unbreal. Maris asks for 12 dragon eggs. I know that a lot of people think that the dragon eggs have been taken to Unbreal to fulfill this request. However, as we have pointed out, there are only 6 dragon eggs and Maris has asked for 12/6 dragon eggs missing from the. Bale There are 6 dragon eggs missing from the Bale. Maris has asked for 12.

1:37:50 You have thoroughly convinced me that the power of the gods is a real thing and that perhaps Dragons have stolen the power of the gods and are not supposed to have the magic that they do have and that the Dragons and the gods are fighting. The Dragons have fallen out of favor with the gods. They have taken six eggs. There are 6 gods.

1:38:08 And we know we talked about this last week that whatever Seagal is doing, she is doing for the good of dragon kind. And we have talked about how dragon eggs have the ability to reimbue magic into where wherever Dragons hatch, the magic changes, right? Are they taking the eggs to the gods, 1 egg to each God to give them back their magic as like a peace offering? Like, hey, sorry we pissed you off. We know you need to be part of this fight. Here is a dragon egg.

1:38:38 We come in peace to each aisle. Not to each aisle, not to each aisle to the gods, to each God. Where? I don't know. I don't know. But I do think, like, do you believe that the gods are real, that there we will at some point meet a physical manifestation of each of these gods? Definitely Malik. So. I think right.

1:38:56 Malik has a throne somewhere, right? I don't think they're taking the eggs to the aisles, but I think that I don't think they're going on real because it's not 12 eggs, it's six eggs. There's six gods and then that basically like. Breaks which I'm I'm all for. Like, I don't need this theory to be true, but it it breaks the theory of a Dragon's color is tied to a God or Dragon's den is tied to a God because we wouldn't know what the colors of these Dragons are. It's just like, here's a dragon.

1:39:23 Yeah, and that's fine. Yeah. Other things other so I. Have the quotes that we've talked about before. So Tarn, when they leave the continent, right? And he starts to feel all week, he says we draw on magic for strength. I hadn't realized how dependent we'd become, right. So that to me means Taran is like shit, we really need another form of strength here. We've we've made a mistake.

1:39:48 We have become overly reliant on this magic we need and and we have become unreliant on the gods. We have not been paying homage. We have not been worshipping enough. Basically, we need to go back to the gods. So I think Taran realizes that the magic is going to betray them. If we if we are going on the theory that the Dragons are wielding from the ground and that is a finite amount of power. If they bring the eggs back to the gods, does. Does that mean they can wield from the sky again? Potentially.

1:40:14 And there is no cap on their power anymore when they're on on Briole? Maris says. Because she's asking for the 12 dragon eggs, right? She says, from what I know of them, they're rather dedicated to protecting their own, and perhaps a dozen eggs aren't such a bad price for saving the rest of them, right?

1:40:30 So she throws the word dedicated in there, which we know is a sign for the rest of them. Save the rest of them, right? So it's. Not a dozen eggs, but it is 6 eggs. And maybe they have decided that's not such a bad price to pay. And it's not giving the eggs to humans, right? It's giving the ice to gods. Yeah, that's my.

1:40:49 Current working theory, I mean, it makes more sense, right? Like it feels off that we would just deliver half of Unreal's request and just assume that that's going to be good. I don't think it's Unreal. It makes no. Sense for it to be unreal yeah. Why would you only take six eggs? If you could take six eggs, you could take 12 eggs. Yeah, I do feel like.

1:41:08 This series ends with the power of the gods being returned to them, so that would work into it. But why would that happen in book 4? I like it, I'm into it. Thank you, I need to think about that feel like I need. Like a digestion. Period for all of our episodes. OK OK, my pre called corner theory is far less realistic. As per usual I thought about.

1:41:32 This when you. Were talking about Taryn having been to Unbreal before, knowing things he shouldn't know, and just being like weird overall, right? And we were hypothesizing about the Dragons flying about a bunch of stuff. We know that they're lying about their names in some capacity because they're bonding relatives of other riders and not being detected.

1:41:52 And this specific scene occurred when they were flying to the aisles, which is why it's in the aisles episode. But I thought I'd bring it here because we already did the dragon episodes. So Taryn's whole bit is reciting his line, right? Like he loves to, it's his favorite thing. Violets, like I know it by heart, whatever. And they're flying to Deverelli and he's going through like the lore of his breed.

1:42:13 And she says, I listen as Taryn recites the lore of his breed from the first of his line up to throw the first black dragon to ever successfully bond back during the Great War, then stops. Apparently, the story is no longer worth telling once humans are involved. And I scoured every single book, and the only other quote that I could find about Taryn's lineage is I am still Taryn Nianak, son of Mert Kwedian, descended from the cunning Dubmadin line.

1:42:43 Yeah, I know that I butchered that Gaelic pronunciation, but that's the only thing that the only other thing that we have about Taryn. What if he's not lying? He's actually never said his age, right? We're we're skeptical about Taryn's age, right? The only thing that we've ever heard about his age is from a professor. It's like, yeah KR who's wrong about? Everything.

1:43:01 Yeah. What if we just grossly. Misinterpreted lifespans of Dragons and Taran is not lying and Taran is the room. Yeah, I think that's totally. Do you think that's? Feasible. I think it's like that's the case. Did he? I mean, he bonded a member of the original six, Yeah, but we don't know which one.

1:43:19 Right, I'm not sold on this, but is. Theophany A realistic candidate If Theophany be Lira, which she would have been Lira, I think she's dead now. So like, is that realistic? I don't know, but it would explain a lot about Theophany being able to track Violet and seemingly knowing everywhere she was if she still had a bond to Taran that he was just actively blocking as much as he could or not. Like, I don't know, I think it's Pancheck. Right.

1:43:46 Pancheck was feeding theophany information. We are fed that explanation, yes. That's true. I don't even know how explicitly we're fed it actually. We just find out that he's betrayed them all at the end. Definitely think it's possible that Taran. Has been around the line that always sticks out with me. With Taran is I chose you not as my next, but as my as my. Next, but as my.

1:44:06 Last. Yeah, right there. Is supposed to be able to. Live if we think dragon lifespans are 200 years and it's not living for 100 years, right? So like what did he mean by that? There's a time where. Someone, I think it's maybe Sawyer Riddick. I confused them in the earlier books, asked can Taran take Kodak and a bunch of people respond and Taran is silent. I have no memory of this, but that doesn't. Mean I don't believe you.

1:44:33 I'll either edit it out or find it. Because Kodak is the elder. There's another question which is like. Is Kodak the row? I don't know, but it's it's interesting right that Taran recites everything and then just stops at the row with no further explanation. I don't know pre called corner for reason. I had a thought as you were.

1:44:49 Talking. And this also will kind of tie into our mailbag episode next week. But now that the earrids are in play, yeah, And now that I kind of believe you that the earrids are probably hiding out on the continent, any bond is up to be broken. Any bond, right, Theophany Naolin. I think any bond is fair game for not being there anyway.

1:45:10 Yeah, I agree. OK, we have been talking for almost 3 hours Yeah, we're you guys will experience a shorter episode thanks to our editing skills. But magic of two hours and 44 minutes so we're gonna call it Yeah. I don't have anything fun. I'm even. Reading right now, so yeah, I don't remember whether I said this on.

1:45:28 The last episode, but this weekend I will pick back up the next book in Crescent City. But I I was reading in an unhealthy pace and was not able to control myself so I'm not reading anything right now. I did watch the substance last night. Not for me. I think I'm going to start at guitar. This week so that we so that we can pot about it.

1:45:48 I am 200 pages in. I'm not going to name this book because people love this book. I am 200 pages into an 800 page fantasy novel and I kind of hate it. And I'm like, do I keep going? Is it going to get better? I've heard it's a slow burn and it's got four different like POV. It's not written in first person, it's written in third person, but there's four different characters we're following and it's like whenever any momentum starts to pick up on one, we switch to something else. And there's literally like 10 different kingdoms I already have to keep track of.

1:46:21 And I'm just like, this is just way too much for the beginning of a book. Like I need to be. I need to understand one place first before you throw all these other different places at me. Yeah, it's tough to read. And Sarah J Maas is guilty of this as well, to a lesser degree. In my opinion, it's tough to read books where they dedicate all the upfront time to world building. I'm like, I need something right? I just don't care about.

1:46:46 Like any of these characters right now and I'm already 1/4 of the way through the book, right? I'm like, yeah, annoying. This is worth my. Time. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, but it comes highly. 2/2 of my very good friends have recommended it. So I'm like OK, kind of at some point feel like I. Should read some of Sanderson's works.

1:47:04 I think that might be like my post Romanticy. I don't know what that is, he wrote. I think the. Storm, like he definitely wrote a series called Mistborn. He writes like really dense, heavy fantasy that's more like, that's what this is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly what this is. Yeah. OK, OK.

1:47:22 Interesting. Also, I told you. This but I I finally saw the Keira Knightley version of Pride and Prejudice and I absolutely loved it. What a delightful movie. Oh my God, so come to the rest. Of the world. Who's seen that movie? She's. Lovely. Yeah, it's lovely. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Nice. Okay, right, well, thanks everyone for listening.

1:47:42 Thanks for listening. We are on basically every podcasting platform you could imagine, but we are Dragons in the details pod on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube and others. Feel free to DM comment. We're doing a mailbag episode. It's probably going to be the first of multiple. And so we love to hear from you. We love to hear when you disagree with us. We urge you to come with evidence of why you disagree with us so that we can talk about it. Yeah, and e-mail us to Dragons In. Thedetailspod@gmail.com.

1:48:10 Has anyone even ever done that? No one's ever emailed us. I'm waiting for the first one. Come on, guys. Have an e-mail from the details, pod@gmail.com. If you are our first e-mail, we'll shout you out. There you go. You don't even have to say anything. You could just say hi. It won't give you a shout out. Yeah.

1:48:25 All right. Thanks for listening. Bye, guys.