Onyx Storm: Deverelli Deep Dive

0:17 Crispy Diet Coke, so I'm ready for the occasion. What is a crispy Diet Coke? It's like, so I feel like you're not into Diet Coke lore. I don't like coke. Yeah, you just don't really drink soda. I like Sprite, but I don't really drink it. I just don't like Coke or Pepsi. I don't like the flavour.

0:34 There's different levels of like carbonation in different vessels with which Diet Coke can be delivered. And there's like a lot of opinions on this. So like a crispy 1 is like particularly carbonated. What's the vessel? This one happens to be from a can, which isn't usually very carbonated, but they did a good job. OK, I see.

0:54 It's flat. Tends to be flat. The crispiest is fountain. Oh, yeah, Coke. I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Well, crispy. Spicy anyways. Hey, I'm Ronnie. Sorry for that completely relevant conversation. This is Dragons in the Details, a fantasy book podcast where we break apart our favorite fantasy series and focus on theories and themes for you, our listeners.

1:19 This season we will be focused on the Imperium series by Rebecca Yaros. We're going to be talking about that for an undetermined number of episodes. I believe this is episode 10A, Deverelli dissertation. All right, guys, I don't know what's going to happen in this episode. Ronnie is driving here.

1:35 I'm very excited. We're going to see where it goes. I don't know that either of us know what's going to happen, but I'll take the blame if this is all a disaster. Basically what happened was we recorded our Gods and Isles episodes and we both agreed we weren't going to do Deverelli. And then Ronnie texted me and was basically like wait, I have so much to say about Deverelli.

1:51 So this is our follow up episode to our Gods and Isles episode, so if you haven't listened to that one, I highly recommend going back and listening to that one. Bookmark this, save it for later. Usual disclaimers. This episode will contain spoilers up through Onyx Storm for the entire Empyrean series.

2:06 If you haven't read Onyx Storm, come back, bookmark this, come back, play it later. No shame if you haven't finished Onyx Storm. Everyone reads at their own pace. Don't let anyone shame you about the pace you read at. Also, this is a spicy podcast. These are spicy books. This podcast is rated R should not be listened to by children. Each week we're going to dive into a specific topic in death. We've already covered this.

2:26 We're talking about Deverelli today. We're very excited about it. We're coming with receipts. We have quotes. If you're skeptical, ask us. We don't always put the quotes in because sometimes it's boring to listen to people read quotes, but we typically have them to back up our theories unless we're straight up saying, we don't have any quotes to back that up, but we're pretty good about saying when we do and we don't.

2:43 So we have receipts. If you're skeptical, great, Come at us, we'll fight you. Not really. We love you guys, but we're ready. All right, Ronnie, insert fun question here about Deverelli. My God, I have to come up with a question on the spot. Okay, what's your favorite Deverelli moment? This is so good. Actually, I like this because in my mind Deverelli is split into two.

3:02 Completely different. Yeah, but tones and tails thing was cute when she's like, I know who you are, de Natos. Yeah, that was funny, Mira. Not being able to control yourself was the funniest. Part that was funny, but if I'm genuinely, honestly telling you my favorite part and this is revealing more about me and my toxicness than anything else, it's absolutely when Zayden wields from the alloy and kills everyone to defend Violet. Oh fuck.

3:28 So good, so hot. Like, yeah. I love it. What else were they going to do? What else were they going to do in that scenario? They were dead. Yeah, 100% dead. And I loved that whole scene. Like I think Rebecca writes so vividly, so visually well, like I had in my mind such a clear sense of what was going on, where everyone was in relation to each other, like what the scene looked like.

3:56 I thought that was just so beautifully described and like a place I would want to be. And the whole idea, Deverelli being a city hidden by trees, which I will probably get into later. I love the idea of that. Like that. It's just like in one with nature, like lives in harmony with that. Yeah. So that's actually my favorite Deverelli moment. What is yours?

4:16 I just love, I loved all of Deverelli. So I'll say that before I say my favorite moment, like it was the first aisle we got to. It was the first place without magic. I felt like we were just like fed in terms of like new things, interesting things and Violet and Zayden, which I'm always excited about.

4:33 I think my favorite Deverelli moment slash like theme in general was when they were riding into the market and Zayden says Zayden just like is really nice and everyone is floored. I think it's so. Good. So good and I think that moment it's in of itself like I love because it has comedic relief, it's funny. People giggle like Cat looks at him like he has like 6 heads and is like this is not the man that I was sleeping with in betrothed.

5:07 He was like what did you do and not be the same? This can't be the same guy and Dana's like did you just actually say something normal? But I also so just love the undertone of it in that it was really, really sweet to see, but also incredibly sad. And that this was kind of Zadan's last moment of peace for like the entire novel, slash potentially series. He stayed out on the beach.

5:29 He was like, let me just be here for a bit. Like, I have no power, no lore and was just like a nice person. And I forget who said it, but somebody said maybe this is who he would have been if his father hadn't LED a rebellion. And says it his. Choice for him. So it's my favorite really moment. I know, yeah. There's no way I get through book 4 without weeping like 5 times.

5:52 Like even just read, I did not cry the first time I read these books, but rereading them I cry all the time. Like all the time. Yeah, specifically Onyx Storm. Like Onyx Storm genuinely felt like just reading Zaden's death. Like, it was so like gut wrenching reading the book, 1, reading the book not knowing what was going to happen at the end, but two, reading the book when you did know, you were just like, he's just literally every scene.

6:18 He's dying. Yeah. It's horrible. So sad. It's yeah. Anyways, Deverelli wasn't brief moment of peace and his and his last one which I like. Yeah. And I will say, as per usual, like going back and rereading Deverelli, I was once again like, oh wow, there's so much here. This is such an interesting place.

6:36 Yeah, it is also the only place where we really interact with not only the nobility but also like the people on the ground, which I thought was very interesting. I loved it. It was good. Yeah, it was a dual mission, right? Like the real mission was hauled and going to Cortland to acquire an alliance so that they could park there, basically.

6:57 But it was also Asher's mission to violence. And it was really three missions because Halden actually had his own, his own mission. Yeah, but agree all. Right Corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. Ronnie, do you have anything? I'm pulling it up. So podcast magic being ruined temporarily, but we just recorded an episode on segments and I opened my phone to a really fascinating comment that is just fun.

7:24 I don't know. I haven't processed it at all. I don't know if I buy it, but I wanted to read it and it's about signets. I'm sad that I didn't see it or that this commenter actually didn't comment it. Before the signet episode, we posted a clip from our Dragons episode. I think about Dragons lying, being misinformed about how signets work.

7:42 Wait, this is so funny because that's what this is what my social media shout out is and I'm wondering if it's going to be the same one. Just keep going, OK? And so first a commenter commented why would any dragon make them intensic if that's the case? Like in fourth wing, that kid who manifested got killed instantly. The dragon had to know that was the most likely outcome. That was a comment from Daybreak 96. I had replied saying basically my thought on that. If, if there is some level of control, Dragons have a huge responsibility to choose wisely.

8:12 It's said so often when they come to threshing, they have to choose judge character of their rider basically. But we know that that success rate is not 100%. Like you can't choose correctly every single time, and sometimes you impart power upon people who cannot handle it. That happens all the time. Arya SP80I hope I got your handle right. Commented I have a theory on this. I don't think farsight exists.

8:38 I think Dragons are covering their riders intensic abilities by claiming they have farsight. It's an easy signet to fake. It is an easy signet to fake, that's true. Signet to fake because I thought that right in in Rihanna's chapter when Rihanna's Dragon's asking another dragon for their rider who has farsight to tell them how many Wyvern they see.

8:59 And I'm like why could the dragon does not see like Darren? Darren relates that stuff all the time. Right. Well, Terrance has to Violet because Violet can sometimes see through Taran's eyes, right? And Violet basically says why is Farsight even a signet? This is pointless. And he says the gift of our sight is like rewarded to only a few.

9:15 Basically, Yeah, Yeah, but if. You're always in battle with your dragon. And we literally just talked about how Liam's signets are kind of disappointing given who he is. I don't think we have any evidence that Liam wasn't intensic. We could go back and check, but yeah, it'd be a really easy signet to fake, right? Because you just look through your dragon. We know Dragons can do that.

9:34 That's intriguing. Fun, fun comment. Thank you, Arya SP80. Yeah. Appreciate you all. Right, so mine was on the exact same clip, which is kind of funny, but mine was oh, I just reached my time limit, ignore limit, sorry. All right, so mine was the Cooper 27 same clip, same scenario. I could have swore I saw a video of Rebecca saying how do we know that the Dragons are giving their writers the correct name? So I do think the names have meaning in some way and darn on Darn Nurum translates to the second honor, a second respect, which I find interesting.

10:04 So we've talked about the Dragons lying about their names so that the second segments can be created. I also think it's an interesting idea that the Dragons are lying about their names to kind of bestow A signet upon someone, right? That hadn't occurred to me, but I think that's an interesting idea that.

10:19 Interesting. And it would also I. Mean where it doesn't work is that Taryn was clearly Nolan's dragon, and Taryn still means Thunder. Like it's, it's not 100%, but I think it's a fun idea, yeah. Yeah, it would be fun. I all view Dragons names as far as like the names themselves and the meanings so far as like Rebecca's fun way to make us think.

10:41 Because there are some Dragons names that are incredibly on the nose with somebody's Sigma, and then there are some that are super far off. And so I don't necessarily view them as like a a plot point within the book, but more Rebecca trying to guide us to certain answers. Yeah, but that's interesting. If we didn't have Tan I would believe it and it would also report the Sigmets aren't really Sigmets. Crackpaw theory.

11:03 OK, I. Don't have any corrections or omissions, obviously, because we're flawless. Just kidding. I'm sure we'll have plenty, we just have. We will. We. Have a whole slew of episodes and clips to publish. I'm sure we'll have plenty once those go out. All right, Ronnie, it is dissertation time. You ready to jump in?

11:20 I'm ready to think of me as I don't have a PhD, so I don't know how this works, but there's a panel, right? I'll be your panel. Sure, and in a friendly book, please. Make this interactive. It's going to be So I don't have enough to just talk by myself for this entire episode. No, I'm ready. So for context, Abby pointed it out at the beginning of the episode, but basically in the last set of episodes that we filmed, I had a throwaway precog theory.

11:44 So like warning that this entire episode is going to be a little bit unhinged in some regard, but I had to throw away precog theory about Deborah Ellie. And then I listened to the episode and I was like, we have to come back to this. And so I just structured an entire episode on Deverelli. Here is the proposed structure. OK?

12:02 The first topic is Deverelli's dedication to the gods, or lack thereof. OK, topic number one topic #2 I want to talk about rooms and their uses on the aisles, OK. Yeah, you love that. OK, OK. All right. And then topic #3 kind of minor topic. Want to talk about Crossbolts? OK, Can I add one more topic that I want to talk about?

12:25 I want to talk about magic on Deverelli. OK, All right, great. Let's do it. OK. Perfect. This is in case you guys haven't realized an atypical structure for us. We're going to see how it goes. I will take accountability. If it goes completely sideways, it'll be fine. Maybe. OK, My first topic is my throwaway precog corner theory, which has come back with such a vengeance that we now have many minutes dedicated to us. And that is that Deverelli is the real well of wisdom. Hidotus is not.

12:55 Can I just cut in real quick? I have actually seen this theory. I've seen. Really I have. Yeah. You're not the only person thinking this. Amazing. That makes me feel way less crazy. Yeah. So what is Hidotus? We'll get there. Like Hidotus could be just a sacrilegious, like misguided, perhaps dedicated to a different God.

13:14 We don't know yet. Everything in this series so far has come in sixes where there's actually a 7th. What's going on with the gods we know 6 is there actually a 7th TBD. But I feel really strongly that Deverelli is the Isle of Wisdom for three reasons. First reason, Deverelli doesn't worship any gods.

13:31 When it comes to worship of the gods, we have two important insights that we're told about. One comes from chapter 30 and Onyx Storm that it's better to shun the gods than to worship just one of them. It is said the epigraph exactly is it is unwise to favor one God above another. Better to shun them all than show favoritism amongst a jealous, prodigious pantheon. So already we're hearing unwise to favor one God. Hidea Hidotis is dedicated to one God. And the next point is Hideon, the God of wisdom, only answers to those who do not pray to him.

14:08 Yeah, and that is in chapter 35 of Onyx Storm. The God of wisdom is the trickiest to placate. Heidian only seems to answer those who do not pray to him. We know that the Isle of Deverelli does not worship the gods. We know this for a lot of reasons, but the most on the nose reference we have is when Violet affirms this when talking to Narelle, who's a merchant, and Deverelli. Violet says Deverelli don't worship gods. I also think it's interesting that Deverelli is the plural name for the citizens of Deverelli. Narelle says it's why we're considered the most neutral of the Isles.

14:39 Perfect for trade. What you call God's, what we call science, what you call fate, we call coincidence. What you call the divine intervention of love, we call alchemy. This aisle qualifies as falling into favor with Hedian and the pantheon because, one, they don't pray to Hedian, and two, they don't pray to any gods.

14:57 Rather than selecting one, they let facts and pragmatism and neutrality and keeping their options open guide them. Yeah. Reason #1 Any comments? I agree with you, OK. I mean, I'm not completely sold on the idea that Deverelli is actually the favorite Isle of Hedian. Well, I guess I'd be. I guess I actually am when I phrase it that way.

15:22 When I phrase it that way, I am convinced that I. Agree with you. It's not the territory of Hedian, but I think that it's the favorite Isle of Yeah. Yeah, yeah. OK. No, All right. Yeah, No, I see what you're saying. Reason #2 There is a deep respect for wisdom there, not knowledge, wisdom. They have a phrase that I think is interesting there.

15:39 The word is the blood. And when I think about that, like the the context that it's used in is like honesty and integrity in a brokered deal. But I also think it's interesting that it's like the most scribe reverent phrase that we've heard so far. Like the word is the blood. Yeah. Like the knowledge, the history, the written thing is the blood. And Asher, who is the one telling her that only she can understand his text, asks her to bring the rarest item she possesses to Deverelli to get what she needs. What is it?

16:12 Well, what does she bring or what is he looking for? What is he looking for? Yeah, it's her mind. So I do want to talk about that for a quick second because it took me 3 rereads to actually realize what was going on here, right? Violet goes and retrieves this. What is it called? The citrine, The.

16:29 Amelian citrine the. Amelian citrine, right? So I thought for the longest time that what she had to give to Narelle was the Amelian citrine, but what she actually had was an Darna's egg, right? That was what she thought was the rarest item that she had in her possession. How then had the Amelian citrine and then and Darna and Violet ends up giving and Darna's egg? Once, the chorus tells, Violet, like Courtland will meet for the price of the amelian citrine.

16:57 Right, exactly, exactly. So right. So but what he actually ends up going for is and Darna's egg. So that was a little bit of a sleight of hand. I thought on Rebecca's part that I thought she had the Amelian citrine with Narelle. I thought that's what she was planning to give to Narelle, which of course actually didn't make any sense. But it was actually and Darna's egg that she had the whole time that she was willing to barter away, which and Darna says, I know what we can bring.

17:19 And Terrance says I agree but I don't want to deal with the Hatch links basically. Which is so, Yeah. Well done, Rebecca. Yeah. Well done, I agree. And then the third reason that I think it's the Isle of Wisdom is because, and this is a little bit, could you argue that Asher set it up this way? Sure. But I also think Asher knew a lot of things that he couldn't write in text on the nose.

17:43 Violet literally goes through the challenge of proving her wisdom on Deverelli, not notice. Right, right. Violet comes to Deverelli sort of for an alliance, but primarily for her father's text. She seeks out Narelle, who runs a bookshop, and Narelle, in order for Violet to retrieve her books, challenges her wisdom with three questions.

18:05 That is supposed to be the challenge on the Isle of Hidotis I. Had the same. I had the same note like she is. She is going through the trial that the triumvirate is supposed to set for her with Noel, right? It's the exact same trial and Cortland even the real version. But Cortland also does it to Zaden, right?

18:25 Like we'll and we'll get there, but yeah, yeah. Wait, tell me about Cortland doing it to Zaden. I didn't have that. Now when? Cortland asks Zaden where does your lawyer? So my theory on this, my thinking on this right Hidotis the triumvir and Hidotis Narell and Cortland all are basically asking questions of people and the questions that they are asking are justify your life choices to me.

18:47 Explain to me how we've gotten to this point in your life and what you've done so with Narelle. It's why did you leave the Prince, right? Why would you give up a crown on Hidotis? It's why aren't you all married to each other? Like, what are you doing? And then what Cortland asks. Zaden is who are you loyal to, right?

19:02 Which in my mind is it's a very similar question, right? Because he says the answer will decide your fate, right? So if you tell me you're loyal to Tyrandor, No, fuck you. If you tell me you're loyal to Navarre, no, fuck you. What he said was Violet, right? And then Courtland is like open to negotiations. He's like, OK, he's loyal to love, which is the answer for all of them, right?

19:23 It's the answer for all of them. Why do you love Zaid? And why do you love Violet? Right? That was my thinking that it is. It is the exact same trial, just not where Violet expected. Yeah, interesting. I mean, it's it is the challenge of Hedian. Like it's what's supposed to happen on Hedotis, but on Hedotis they're like they make the mistake and this is where I think like they're actually just a fallen like or a sacrilegious aisle in some regard. They make the mistake of thinking like they know the answer, kind of like that that them like mere humans know what's best and what's best is basically to what creates the best outcome for me.

20:00 I think they're incredibly selfish, but that's that's. That's not really important. The three questions that Narelle asks I also think are important. The 1st is he left a manuscript for you, he being Asher, what is the title? We know that the title is subjugated, the second uprising of the Krovin Krovlin people. And I like that seems like a silly question, but actually like if you think about what she went through to get that text, like it also proves that she was capable of retrieving it from wherever it rested.

20:29 Because I would assume that Narelle could foresee this isn't just going to be handed to Violet. And in a way, it is also another love question, right? Because the question that guarded that text was you never forget your first love, right? So who is your first love? Irreplaceable. First love is irreplaceable.

20:46 Sorry. Yeah, First love is irreplaceable. And we know the answer was aims here for Lilith, right? But it's again, it's this idea of testing love. Basically, Yep, Yep, totally. The second question was about why Deverelli led to the Krovlin uprising falling apart. And she asked, what is your hypothesis? Which is when Violet basically like had to prove to Dane that Krovla promised Dragons and couldn't deliver and Deverelli protected its reputation and pulled out of the deal. And So what I took from that question is Violet's not only proving that she's wise, but also proving that she was willing to entertain a concept so far from reality of what she was told that everybody else found it unbelievable. Dane was like, 1 does not just

21:28 deal in Dragons, right? But Violet had the one, wisdom to figure it out and two, bravery to be like, I think this is it. Maybe one does, Yeah. Maybe one does. Stealing Dragons. Yeah, that's a good point. She's willing to, like, go past the bounds of what she knows to be true to kind of seek out the truth. Yeah.

21:48 Yeah. And then the third question was tricky because I think Rebecca wanted us to think that Narelle was just like, into romance and gossip. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Like what was going on with Violet's love life and the Prince and all of that stuff? But the the third question Narelle asked is what made you leave the Prince?

22:07 And she just assumed, like when Violet gave her the answer, that she found out that Halden was having sex with one of his professors. She's like, did you leave in a jealous rage? But no, actually Violet was like, I just know when to walk away and Narelle came out knowing that Violet knows her value.

22:23 She is. Go ahead. No, no, no. I had a different read on that one. OK, tell me your read. I think that question is Asher testing if Violet has turned Venom right? Because what Narelle asks I believe is what would make you walk away from all that power from a crown, from a crown, right? So if Violet A is still seeing Halden, then that means that we're shit out of luck B if she leaves in A jealous rage or if she leaves for another reason. Like OK, Violet is very attracted to power especially contrast this with Cat who is fighting Violet for a crown, right?

22:59 That's what she says and who we've talked about got the Ruby necklace might not be good news for Cat, right? So I think this is Asher testing Violet to see if she can still be trusted or if she is now so attracted to power that she might be in danger of turning venom, right? So like, we know that Violet won't don't do anything for power. She would not stay with Halden for power. And again, contrast with with the people of Hidotis who would literally do anything for knowledge, right? Yeah, bad people.

23:31 Yeah, not heedians, boys and girls, right? And, well, sorry, I have more notes on this. I'm just reading them. She gave us the same answer basically both times, right. She gives the answer to Narelle, and she gives the answer to the triumvirate of like, why she's with Zayden, right. Narelle says, oh, good, you know your value. The Triumvirate says you're being very unwise. Yeah, right.

23:50 So yeah, I it's yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a contrast. It's the contrast, and one of them seems much wiser than the other. Can we time out from Deverelli for a second? Actually, because you brought up Katz Ruby and I said I had no omissions. But I did write this down, right? Because it's in the Deverelli chapters. There is an epigraph from the cannon of the flyer. The gem given to you upon graduation from Cliff Spain should always be worn close to the heart. But if you have not mastered your control, it will only amplify your downfall.

24:21 I think Cliff Spain fell before Cat graduated, right? Yeah. Definitely did, yeah. So is this supposed to represent her gem given to her on graduation from Cliff, Spain Maybe. I read that as a reference to the citrine because the citrine is a magical amplifier that is worn by Flyers. That's what we find out about it.

24:41 So like I think on the surface that's what this is about. But you are raising a very good point that also gems can amplify Flyers power and we should be on the lookout for Cat to be even more bitchy with her powers or something. Well, I. Mean Amelian Citrine is an amplifier, but I would assume based on that text that the gem given to any graduate is an amplifier.

25:02 Like has some power in some regard, but they never got them, yeah. Or they haven't gotten them yet. I don't know. Right when Flyers graduate from I guess our. Flyers going to graduate from best guy. I don't know from the school in Arisha. What are they calling? So yeah, from the school in Arisha.

25:15 I don't know. They're not come up with a name for you. Sad. OK, anyways, back to Deverelli. I guess we we didn't really leave that really. So So yeah. So though like maybe there's more to the case than that, but like, those were the big reasons that stood out to me. Like Deverelli basically does the right things in terms of how to worship the God of wisdom. They value wisdom there over knowledge, power, like really, really anything else, like war, any of it. And we see it's just, it feels so on the nose that we see the Hidotis challenge lived through Novelle Novelle Narelle, Astor and Violet in that bookshop that he sent her to Deverelli for. Right.

25:57 He sends her to Deverelli. He doesn't leave his books on Hidotis. He leaves them on Deverelli. Right. Yeah, Yeah, I think there's a a couple other things here. So one, we know that Deverelli's palace has been standing for 1000 years, right? So that to me speaks to wisdom and money. They have the money to keep it going, right.

26:17 But that definitely speaks to like sanctity of ancient things, right? Maybe this is, I don't know, maybe this isn't really a thing, but I definitely, when I think of places that are close to like pantheons of gods, right? You think of like Athens and the Acropolis, like that's an old thing, versus Hidotis, which is basically gentrifying.

26:35 So I think that's something well. Isn't it like when we spend so much of this book talking about how so much of the series talking about how to find all of these missing texts? Like that's something that comes up a lot with Justinia Also is like there's so many missing texts about Deborah Ellie and about the aisles, Like if Deborah Ellie has been preserved since before the Great War and before the unification, like is it going to be our source for everything That's like more than probably kept it all We.

27:04 Need to go back to Deborah really. We need to spend a lot more time in Deborah really and. Unfortunately, I think it's very very far from loy some, but that's a different problem. This is so this is actually my next point. So Norell's hair is described as silver, which we've talked about before. Maybe she's just old, but I like, is she dedicated?

27:22 And if she's dedicated, my mind would be she's dedicated to Loyol because she's so interested in love. I don't know. Interesting. And wouldn't that be interesting too if she became Deverelli? Yeah. I mean, she says she straight up says we don't worship gods on Deverelli, but her hair is silver. Could be nothing, could be nothing. But one could just be, but I also think is interesting is that the second most common language in Deverelli is Krovlish.

27:47 And so I think that all of like Deverelli is mostly one of two things, right? Like which way did it go? I don't know. But like either Krovlin immigrants or Krovla was built off of former citizens of Deverelli. But like, like there's obviously some, yeah. There's a common origin there. Yeah, common origin. And also, everyone in Deverelli, the common color for Deverelli is white.

28:09 And we know the scribes were cream ropes. So I thought that was an interesting point. Yeah. No, I think that I think there is something here. I think Hedotis is it clearly touched by evil. And I think we have to go back to Deverelli. I think there's unanswered questions there for sure. Yeah. All right. What was the next point?

28:30 Crossbolts. Three reasons What? The next point was like crossbolts, right? No, I want to talk about runes first. Runes. Great crossbolts is much more like crack crackpot OK rooms. So this falls under Deverelli because it's where we start to test things that it might tie into your magic point and crossbolts might as well, right?

28:49 We are getting mixed signals about whether runes work on the aisles. So when they first arrive in Deverelli, Mira Hans Violet, a lilac colored quartz disc with A room that it's supposed to protect her from sunlight. And then a few moments later, a few pages later, Aiden tells her to go ahead and side while he stays on the beach and says you need to rest and definitely need to get out of the sun for a bit.

29:11 Your nose is turning pink, so we know. Good point. I didn't even make that connection. Good point. Disk is not protecting her from the sunlight. Then they return to Deverelli later and Violet mentions Mira does the same thing, gives her a quartz disc with that that rune. She mentioned she's grateful to not be sunburned, but that she has the same rune as the as the disc on one of the daggers Zaden gave her last year. So the runes working on Deverelli and the aisles in general potentially seem tied to the material maybe and needing that alloy the alloy to function. What do the venom and aisles have in common? That alloy is required for that magic to have an impact. Is it just that they have imbued

29:53 power? Runes are supposed to be tempered power. Like what is it about the material that makes it work on the aisles? There's one other interesting point that I noticed when we were going to the aisles regarding brooms. As Violet and the squad are leaving the wards for Deverelling, she says I'm struck with the oddest urge to try and pluck strands from the very sky and weave runes.

30:16 She is terrible at runes. Why does she feel that way? Like why is terrible? It runs. Yeah, no, I brought this up on our Violet deep dive. Right. Yeah. OK, so I'm going. I'm just going to talk about the magic stuff on Deborah Ellie that I noticed because I think it's right into this. All right.

30:34 So we know that what Cortland requests in order to have an audience with a Halden and the riders from Navarre is the Amelian Citrine. Halden tells us that that is a magic amplifier worn by Flyers. Why would Cortland want a magic amplifier? He is on an aisle that does not have any magic, right? We also find out that Deborah Ellie has been getting priceless magical artifacts from Navarre for services rendered over the past century.

31:04 Sketchy because of the past century part, but what caught my eye here was priceless magical artifacts. Again, no magic. Why are we going for magical artifacts? How does that make any sense? Courtland also wants Violet to stay and be his bodyguard, right? And Cat points out that doesn't make any sense when you don't have any magic.

31:23 Violet. Like you're a great lightning wheel there, but you're kind of like just normal without magic, right? And at the time when I read that, I was like, oh, well, he this is because Zaden had just wielded, right? He had just pulled from the alloy. So he probably thinks, oh, maybe there is magic, right? But I don't, I don't really think that's what it is because Cortland specifically says we don't have any magic on Devorelli.

31:46 However, Cortland implies there are different types of magic, right? So what he says is we remain neutral in all things and always have. It's how we've maintained trade, commerce, growth and knowledge for the world, no matter what God you worship or magic that you can access, right? Let's talk about parallel structure here, right? So the way that sentence could read, the way that sentence is meant to read is no matter what God you worship or no matter what magic you can access, right? Implying there are different types of magic, right? So I think this gets back to our there's no magic in the ground, but maybe there is different magic and maybe Courtland knows about it, but our writers can't

32:26 sense it except for obviously Violet, right? So I think, I think it's really sketchy that he's just collecting magical artifacts and magical amplifiers, and obviously he thinks Violet will have some power. Well, and I think there's a question. Right. So you point out Courtland alludes to the fact that there's different types of magic.

32:42 There are so many theories out there about sky magic and ground magic. We find we're specifically called to attention by Rebecca to focus on runes that protect from the sky. Violet wields on on real right? Like what is are the is Deborah? Let's just look at Deverelli for example, right? Is Deverelli not stunted by the lack of magic available to them, but the lack of people able to channel from that source of magic?

33:08 Is Deverelli stunted? At all. They don't seem to like, I don't know, they don't seem to be lacking. I mean, it doesn't have the colors. It's it's very like it's hailed in its color. Yeah, yeah. And there's. No magic that the Dragons are familiar with to channel from Yeah, but the water. So this is interesting the. Water is described as like this beautiful emeralds, rich rich. Yeah, and.

33:33 Turquoise or something. Yeah, we know. That Yeah, I my first, my first note was muted colors on land, but not in the water. Those colors are vibrant. We know that Hidotus is aquaphobic and we don't really know why. Yeah, right. But I just think that's interesting that the water is described as so vibrant, but the people of Hidotus are scared of it. But Deborah Ellie's not scared of it. Deborah Ellie has a thriving part with four central Piers and several smaller ones.

34:01 So like, I'm not saying they were the water or anything like that, but they're certainly not scared of the water and they're obviously into commerce and trade. So like obviously they're on the water a lot. Like, yeah, that's also. Another point where I just think Dodis is so stupid, right? Of the water.

34:17 You're an island that needs to trade with other Isle. I know. It's so weird. It's so weird. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not necessary. Yeah, I I think there is magic on Deborah Ellie. Whether that's the same type of magic that is on Unbriel or whether it's specific to Deborah Ellie, I don't know. I don't know if it's, but, but Courtland has been collecting magical artifacts before Violet ever showed up, right. So it's not like Violet shows up and suddenly there's magic like he, I think, knows something.

34:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That ties into crossbolts as a topic. So we see them on most aisles. I think it's a debris aisle. I think it's almost every aisle. Zenal does not have crossbolts. Zenal doesn't have crossbolts. Which makes sense because they just let luck guide them. Crazy people love them. So Deverelli is armed with crossbolts. They all point out words they cannot rotate inwards. Taryn points this out.

35:10 Let's talk through just like a brief history of what we know about crossbolts. In my opinion it's not enough to the point where it's suspect that you know so little. OK we first learned about them in fourth wing when we talk about the battle of Jonfar. Jonfar was equipped with the first crossbolt and all we know about it from that conversation is it quote proved lethal against dragonkind in fourth wing chapter 25 when the squad I forget what like quest they were going through. It was like early, obviously it was first year they Riddick proposes fetching a crossbolt when they're talking about what to get.

35:43 They ultimately decide to get the map from Oh yeah, it's when they're they're. Stealing the secrets they have to steal. Something valuable to the enemy. Yeah. Riddick proposes getting a crossbolt. Quinn says it's too big, that there's only one in the museum. So it's in a museum somewhere. And, quote, honestly, it's not even the bolt that's deadly.

36:03 It's the launching system. OK, so far, we know of three things that can end Dragons. Maybe 4. Let's call it 4 violets. Lightning alleged that one dagger, whatever that dagger was imbued with or ruined with. And at the end of Onyx Storm Berwyn sinks a dagger into Panchek's dragon and Zaden is like did you just kill a dragon with a dagger and it desiccates dragon desiccates which is crazy right? Like killing a dragon with a dagger is crazy for many reasons.

36:33 One, the scales are dagger proof. Like we've seen this prove out through Violet's armor. 2 like Taryn has had an entire Wyvern wing spur in his side and just has it pulled out and is hunky Dory. Like he's fine and Taran is stabbed. By a sword at the end of 4th Wing, Yeah. Anyway, we are digressing a bit back to the crossbones, so.

36:54 Four things that can kill a dragon. Violence. Lightning. That dagger. That one dagger. That one dagger. We don't know how many daggers like that are out there. We don't even know whether that's the same type of dagger that can kill a venom like maybe it is don't know another wyverner dragon like another like match, right? And then a crossbolt, all of those things that aren't a crossbolt have magic.

37:16 Yeah. Like, how is a crossbolt functioning on these islands without magic? Or do they just not like, this? Makes no sense to me. Well, I I. Remember Taryn saying that what kills Dragons is like crossbolts to the heart? Which makes sense to me, right? Like that's. Yeah. Like if you shoot a dragon through the heart with a crossbolt, like, that's going to kill them. But launching with what?

37:42 What no. Like if you. If you like, how are crossbolts launched? That's the question. Yeah. I don't know. They're Crossbolts, explosives. I guess it's like a lever. Why is the lever deadly? And not bolt? I don't know well. She says it's not the. Bolt that's deadly. It's the launching system. I just feel like we don't know enough about crossbolts. They also just go away in iron flame. Like, we do not hear about them one single time, and then they come back in Deverelli.

38:08 And I think Taryn says the existence of the crossbolts means this aisle wants to do us harm. Maybe it's maybe it's Violet. I forgot who said that. Yeah. Well, you know what's? Interesting on Deverelli too. I think it's on Deverelli is that they don't swivel in right like the crossbolts only. So first there are crossbolts, and Taryn knows that.

38:28 Which is weird, right I? Also think it's interesting that the whole city is basically camouflaged, right? Like, Violet does not realize she's looking at a city at all until they get closer. So that kind of speaks to me that this was specifically designed with the idea of camouflaging against aerial assault, Right?

38:46 So probably Dragons, yeah. So I think. Still unanswered questions on the Dragon's history with the aisles there. Yeah, yeah. Taryn also said something that made it seem like the Dragons were like, trapped on the continent or like couldn't go to the aisles. When Violet first finds out that there's not magic on Deverelli, based on Asher's note to her, Taryn says there's no magic beyond the continent.

39:11 It's why we Dragons remain, why it's surprising the Irids left our shores. Because like, we're just here because the magic's here. Yeah, but this? Whole story is built on lies, right? Like the all of all of this series is built on authorities lying about the truth. So yeah, not that there's anything else to lie about. You're always lying about the truth, obviously. But anyway, yeah.

39:33 Yeah, OK, that's kind of all I had about Deborah Elliott. I'm fine with this being a shorter episode. Oh, actually, can I bring up one more thing? Yeah, it's very much just sentimental and, like, emotional. The last piece of Deverelli that was important to me more as a reader, not as like a theorist, right, is this seems like the first place where we get foreshadowing of like a normal for Violet and Zaden.

39:56 They're the most like normal and human couple they've ever been, and it's the first time that we are ever presented with the concept of Dragons and humans not being compatible. Violet says to Zaden, what if we just stayed here? And Zaden's rebuttal was Segal is in pain. You know, this is the first presentation of maybe humans aren't supposed to be bonded with Dragons.

40:18 Maybe humans can exist in peace or want to exist in peace and the Dragons can't join magic. Maybe is unnatural and detrimental to the way that humans exist. And here's my thing. Now too, right? Like and dharna can just break the bond. Like, and Dharna can just break the bond and they can go live their happy lives, right? Or at least Zaden can.

40:39 I know that Violet would probably never actually leave Taryn because she said it's the cowards way out, right? But like, yeah, like, Zaden can just go post up on Deverelli so GAIL can find another rider. It's sad, but is it worse than what's going to happen? I don't think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To me was like such a tease.

40:57 I mean, we talked about at the beginning Zaden kind of having his last moment of peace, but it was really the first time we were like, Oh my gosh, they could just exist without all of the magic and all of the war. Yeah, but they're Dragons and they're awesome. Sex. Which would be, Well, yeah, that would be.

41:15 A loss. I yeah, I think I told you to be a loss for everyone. Really, it was like, not that great. No, it was fucking. Boring. Yeah, yeah, they. Like tried to make it fun by breaking a table and I'm like, why do we keep having to breakthrough? I'm like, they already broke furniture, Yeah. So the only other thing I had was the OK, so there's a couple of things here I wanted. I also wanted to talk a bit about Cortland. So what they call Cortland is ruler of Deverelli, master of trade, keeper of Troth, justice of the tribunal, air of the antiquities, right?

41:46 I think ruler of Deverelli makes sense. Master of trade makes sense. Justice of the tribunal. OK, he's a little bit of a dictator here, but OK, an air of the antiquities we've talked about, he's collecting all these magical antiquities. Keeper of the Troth. I looked up, I was like, what truth actually mean?

42:00 So it can mean keeper of the truth, which I think is interesting, right? Because we've talked about all these lies that might be happening on Deborah Ellie, right? Can also mean keeper of faith, which gets back to the gods, right? So like, is Deborah Ellie secretly worshipping faithful to the gods and by shunning all of them, is that actually kind of their way of acknowledging them? Or are they worshipping what?

42:22 I think there is a small argument to be made that maybe this is actually the Isle of Loyal because of Navarre Narelle's questions about love and maybe she's dedicated to love. I don't know. I don't have, like, I've not prepared a whole dissertation the way you did. But is Courtland secretly worshipping a God of love? Because both Zaden and Violet are questioned about their love lives multiple times.

42:43 Basically, Yeah. And then there is the bargain with fat. Right. So what he says to Zaden is I need to know you can uphold your end of a bargain even when it's unpleasant to do so, just as your father did. I'm pretty sure this is the contact, the contract marriage with Talia, Right? Like like we get ever graphs from Fenn about how it like, what is it the most useless word in language of aristocracy has been and always will forever be loved.

43:08 Marriage isn't necessary evil to serve the secure line, nothing more. Save love for your children. Obviously, Talia also did not be enjoy being married to Fenn, right? She she left as soon as she could. Yeah. If this is the contract marriage between Talia and Fenn, what did Deborah Riley get out of this? What did Hidotis get out of this? Right.

43:25 So we know Deverelli wants rare antiquities, we know that Hadotas wants knowledge. I this is a very out there theory. People are going to come at me about this theory. But we know that there was a study done on venom, right? So the epigraph is in the 1st 24 hours of removal from source magic. The subject and a SIM presented is even tempered.

43:46 But withdrawal quickly revealed the subjects true nature requiring the subjects and media transfer to stage two of the study. Her results can be found with the Group B under the category Death by Fire and subsequent Group C under the category Death by Poison. Right, Removal from source magic. There is no magic on the aisles, right?

44:04 And we know that ribostad chest can hold Fennon and we know that Fenn had a ribostad chest. Currently to Karis has that ribostad chest, but did he always have it? I don't know. So my crazy, I guess this would be my crazy Peacock theory. If we're doing precog theories. This episode was there basically a study conducted about Vennon using rare antiquities using this ribostad chest on either Deverelli or for Hidotis to figure out what the fuck was up with the venom. And is that maybe how Hidotis became corrupted by the venom? Because you know that I think that Hidotis is being secretly run by venom.

44:36 Like did the venom escape and kind of corrupt Hidotis like was? Was that part of this? Contract marriage, yeah. It's way out there. I don't know. I don't think that it's. Way out there that Fenn would have traded with Deverelli to get the ribusted chest. In fact, I don't know where the how else he would get it. Yeah, well, I was thinking Fenn.

44:57 Gave the ribostat chest to Deborah Ellie with the vennen in it. But now Takaris has it so it doesn't totally make sense. Yeah, I would have expected. If if they were working a tree that Fenn would get the chest to run the experiments and that's how it ended up on the continent. But I suppose they could also, I don't know, like the aisles be down for that.

45:19 Receiving vennen to run experiments on seems like a high risk I feel like. An uncorrupted Hidotus would right? Because what they are seeking is knowledge, right? And if we want to be like well how the fuck did venom get to the aisles? If you were looking for a way to study the venom away from magic, take them to the aisles. There is no magic on the aisles.

45:42 But then maybe it all goes wrong. Maybe the venom. You know in a every horror movie ever situation the Venom escape and end up taking over before Hidot. Yeah, yeah, 150 years ago, yeah, although, and that's what happens with the Fen timeline, that's true. That does not line. Up with the Fen timeline, so forget I said anything.

46:03 Yeah, but I don't know. I I'm just that epigraph has always stood out as very interesting to me because it's like, OK, who the fuck is writing a study with 46 groups? Yeah. On Vennon. At least 40. So why are two of the categories? Death by fire and death by poison. We know at least one of those does not kill, right? How many ways are?

46:23 There to kill Vennon or to not kill Vennon right who's doing this study Miles and then the. Eareds were the fire. I don't think there's any clues. In like who wrote it? All right, so the the quote is from a book called A Study in the Anatomy of the Enemy by Captain Dominic Purshell. I don't think we have anything else by Captain Dominic Purshell. I don't know if he's a flyer, I don't know if he's a rider. Yeah, I think this is the only thing we have on him. So I think there's I have a lot of open questions about that particular epigraph.

46:50 Anyway. Anything else on Deverelli? Just looking. Through my other notes, the only other thing that I had, I was more of like an item that happened on Deverelli. So the italics come back. I know. And they sound like Violet. I know. They do sound like which is disappointing. Like I. Wanted it to be different, but I wrote all the things that the the italics voice said. When the shopkeeper looks over Violet's shoulder, the italics voice says Mira, period.

47:16 Then when the shopkeeper tries to deflect, like are you protecting something or you just, you just hate, you know, Firebringers or whatever, the the voice in italics says protecting something and then normal text. Yeah, Don, I think that's just like a little weird. It's. Weird. And then when Darrell calls Zayden Dane, the italics say oh fucking kill me now. Which so it.

47:40 Also says, because I wrote it down in one point, this is when Cortland abducts Halden. It says sorry, but if you abduct our royalty, we scare the shit out of you with our Dragons. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I still really. Want to be something? Yeah, yeah. But it's definitely, it's something like I refuse to believe that this is just, we're being told this entire story in the first person by Violet.

48:03 It needs to be so at least a different Violet. Like, yeah, I agree. Yeah, that's all I got. Nice. All right. What are you reading, Ronnie? What are you reading? But I'll go first. So as you guys know, if you've been listening to our episodes, I started the Crescent City. It's I don't think it's a trilogy.

48:21 I think it's actually just like a series of which three books are out. I finished the first one, which I think was The House of Earth and Blood. And I said that I was going to wait until this weekend to pick up. I think the second one is called The House of Sky and Breath. I don't know. I just bought the bundle and I did not wait.

48:36 And now I'm on chapter 40. I can't put these books down. I need help but without giving it away because I think Abby you'll read it at some point. The main character, I can't relate to it all because she's like a party girl basically, but I love her. And the male protagonist in this one is like, much less perfect, which I'm actually really enjoying because it's sometimes hard to read a like, male main character who's just like, terms of how he loves and the decisions he makes, like flawless and loyal the entire time. It's like, it's fun but unrealistic. Yeah.

49:13 And this guy is like, very, he's not morally grey at all, but he like makes mistakes. And I'm like, oh, why'd you do that? And it's also, I think I've told you it's like Sarah J Mass's world, but more modern. Like there's technology, which I think is pretty fun. So I'm having a good time and there's only so.

49:32 That's a not finished series. It's not finished, but what? I'm told is that similar to Acatar, like the plot is wrapped within a certain number of books and those are published, but like we're expecting more books about like other plot lines or other, she is just prolific. Like she's just Jesus. Yeah, and she's a. Fantasy writer.

49:53 So she's like always releasing one of her, like, next books in her fantasy series. Yeah. So I enjoy that. I'm really excited to read that one. I for our listeners, I think a guitar spoilers. I think we should just put that here now because, yeah. Sorry, a guitar spoilers. I'm halfway through a guitar. I'm enjoying it.

50:14 I think it's through A Court of Thorns. And roses. Yes, sorry, I'm halfway. Through book 1A, Court of Thorns and Roses is a guitar for the whole series I feel like people refer. To a guitar, as the series it is called. It's also the name of the series. Yeah. OK, so I'm. Halfway through A Court of Thorns and Roses book one, she has just turn back to the human realm and hate that part.

50:36 I actually OK, I have like a couple thoughts on it. I like Farah. I think she's good. I think she's AI think she's a really good main character. Yeah, she's good. For a. Couple reasons like, and I think I texted you this like she's very competent, but she's not sassy the way that Sarah says sassy and Kingfisher like she's not uppity or like trying to be in anyone's business until eventually she gets a little sassy. But it felt earned like because the first quarter of the book she's fucking terrified.

51:06 Like it wouldn't make any sense, right? Yeah, she also. Like, she's really good at things, but she's also like, illiterate and poor, which I think humbles her. Yeah, quite a bit. I actually, you know, those, like, handwritten, like, book descriptions. Like, I was at a bookstore in DC and it was like, a literate girl falls in love with man who plays the fiddle. And I was like, OK, yeah, it's I guess fun that she's illiterate. I don't know if she stays illiterate. So that's that's my first thought. My second thought was, I'm halfway through this book and there's three fucking characters. What is going on?

51:39 This doesn't make any sense, especially after reading 4th Wing, right, where there's so many characters. And then the glamour thing happens where it turns out there's been like, I was literally like, this house cannot be this empty. Like this. It's fucking house can't be this empty. And then they left the glamour, and it turns out there's been hundreds of fairies there the whole time, which I like because I felt like she thought about it.

51:58 And I like that there's all these different types of fairies. I like that there's danger in this world. I I like the world, yeah. Lesser fairies are, what do they call them? Lesser fae? I forget. Yeah, there's no. There's high fae and then there's fairies and then there seems to be like different types of creatures, all of which are fairies, but they're not all humanoid or anything. Unclear if any of the fairies are actually humanoid now that the glamour has been lifted.

52:24 Don't think so. OK, I'm. Kind of sad that I know that she doesn't end up with Tamlin, but I really like Tamlin, actually, Yeah, I mean, can. I just say before you go any further, like Tamlin is a polarizing character, but like nothing. I know you know that she doesn't end up with him, but like it is not like black or white whether he's good or bad kind of thing.

52:53 I'm guessing he does I. Have like 2 main guesses. Like I think these masks are actually hiding something nefarious, right? I think Tamlin and like the Supreme Court has probably made some kind of deal with the devil or something and now they have to wear these masks. So like he's been painted at this like kind of perfect Prince, but like actually we're going to find out that he did something sketchy and that's why he has to wear a mask but Reese and doesn't. I like their.

53:20 Relationship like I buy it. I think it's good. I like the feral version of Tamlin after that spring ceremony way more like when he bites her neck I'm like holy shit let's do this like come on and then they don't do it. I enjoy Tamlin during. That book, like, I like him. Yeah. I think they're great together.

53:40 No, I do think they're good. Together. But that's the version of Tamlin that I want. And then I just read their actual sex scene and I was like what the fuck? This is so boring. Like there's nothing here. I will say that. Like I want in general, Sarah J Mass's intimacy scenes are less. Like they're not full. Ravaging.

54:04 No, no. They're like, there are long ones. You'll definitely get the long ones, but they're not like, I don't know how to say. This is not just saying it. Like, I even though Rebecca Yaros paints Aiden as, like, very smooth, like, all of the things that they do are, like, so aggressive sometimes in Sarah J Mass's books, they're not that aggressive.

54:25 Yeah, but that's a shame. Because I had actually heard that the sex scenes in Acatar in the series were better than Fourth Wing. But so far I do, I do think. That. But you're not there yet. OK, I'm not there yet. I look. Forward to that yeah I mean I like it I'm I'm definitely like I know you said it's more of a leisurely read but I started 2 days ago and I'm halfway through like I'm definitely like kind of burning through this book. I guess I'm just surprised that it seemed to start this whole, like, romanticy kind of revolution, because I don't think it's that good.

54:54 I don't think it quite earns that. Like, I'm definitely not as into Tamlin as I am into Zeta. And like, I'm like, I like it. I think it's good. And obviously I haven't read the second-half of the book, so I really shouldn't judge it yet. But I'm at this point I'm like, like, how did we go from ACOTAR to this huge fandom, you know?

55:11 And maybe that's because the second book is so good. The first one is the worst. Like widely accepted to be the worst one. So if you're enjoying it, I think no, I'm definitely enjoying it. I. Really, I really like Farrah. I like Tamlin, but I definitely get that he's kind of like the goody 2 shoes. I'm very curious to see how the fuck her relationship with Reese and develops because right now he's just a fucking terror. So I'm excited.

55:33 In some ways I think it's better that I know because I'm like looking for it. I don't know, I'm still mad. I know you will never experience what it's like to not know, which I know, I know, I know. I know, but I'm still like falling in love with Hamlin. I'm still like, he's so sweet. I know I actually so I've never reread a guitar.

55:53 I think I read the second one just because I like loved it so much and like needed something while I was waiting for. I don't remember what I was waiting for, but I hadn't read. We read the first one. I will say the the first one reread once, you know, because remember, like before she crosses the wall, like goes over the wall or through the wall or whatever. There's so much interesting stuff that happens when she like, kills the Fae wolf and like goes and trades and everything.

56:20 Like, it actually makes a really good reread, which I was surprised. Yeah, I definitely just like. Blew through that part. I was like, just get me to the fairies. I don't care, just get me. To the fair, it's kind of long. It's not that quick. Feels. Well, I don't know, it's such an easy read. Yeah, yeah, that's the nice thing about it. It's easy.

56:38 But yeah, I'm really. Excited to read the second-half. I might even be. Might even finish it tonight, who knows. God, OK. Probably not though. And I really like Lucian. I think he's great. My thing and this. Isn't a spoiler at all. Like for most of that first book I was like actually two thoughts from my side that aren't spoilers. The rest of that book I was like, Farrah, you have Tamlin and you have Lucian.

57:02 And I'm not blaming you for liking Tamlin, but you've got Lucian as well. And this is how I felt in. Quicksilver, who is arguably. More personable and like clear, I don't know. Yeah, I know at first there's. Like, Talon is just like a big nothing burger. He just, like, doesn't really talk. Like, I don't know when I started to actually kind of be it. No, I do.

57:25 It's after the spring ritual. But he comes back all hard. That's when I was like, oh, hello. Yeah. I'm down for that. Yeah. And then the other thought is just that I can never actually act on this now that the series exists. But I think Farah is one of the prettiest names ever, actually. Yeah, so gorgeous.

57:45 But also, it's like Farah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway. But even. Mispronounced. Because I feel like that's a big concern with like, Gaelic and Irish and all those names. Yeah, even mispronounced, it's fair. Like, no, it's pretty. Yeah, and they literally tell us how to say it, which I really appreciate it. Rebecca like kinda we need you love her for that. Yeah, yeah.

58:07 Thank you, Sarah. Yeah. Yeah, there's a line. Like my sister pronounces the two syllables of my name. Pharaoh. I got to tell you because I know that the later books are about her sisters. I'm like, how these bitches are terrible. Like. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've, Yeah. They've got a long road and I'm not sure that yeah, no, I'm excited.

58:29 I'm. Definitely going to read all of it. OK. Yeah, those are pretty. Much my my big thoughts enjoying Acatar, I enjoyed Deverelli. I look forward to reading the next one. Yeah, I'm just going to read. Crescent City now because we have a little bit of time. Yeah. OK well, thanks for listening. And we turned into an actor episode at the end of this.

58:50 Yeah. Thanks for listening everyone, we really appreciate it. Please follow us on socials. Our handle is Dragons in the details pod at Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. We've also started putting little short clips of these episodes on YouTube. So if for whatever reason you don't want to watch the full episode, which is understandable, we have some slightly longer clips on there then we have on Instagram or TikTok. So be sure to check us out.

59:13 And as always, please rate, review and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to. It's really helpful for a little baby podcast like us. It helps us just kind of get some traction and get some visibility. And e-mail us at dragonsinthedetailspod@gmail.com. We love to hear from you. We haven't heard from any of you via e-mail, but that's fine. We'll get there.

59:32 We did shame everybody. On our last episode, though, which is not out yet, so maybe by the time this airs we'll have an e-mail, yeah. We don't. That'll be sad. That's OK. Emails not. Emails tough, it's not people's yeah and also if you're. Replying to something specific. It's so easy to just comment. I get it, I understand, I.

59:52 Personally have never emailed the podcast so I'm being a huge hypocrite right now. Yeah, and. I don't think I would. Even if the podcast hosts were begging me at the end of the episode, I still think I wouldn't. So we get it. All right. Thanks. Guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening.

1:00:09 Bye.