Onyx Storm: Signets Deep Dive

0:17 Hello, I'm Abby. And I'm Ronnie. And this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. This is episode 9, if we're going by our Empyrion only episodes, is it not? Episode 9 is. It episode 9. I think it's episode 9. Oh my God.

0:36 OK, I believe you. I know we're fine going through these. It might. I don't know. We're going to have to figure out. I know we have a couple topics left to talk about, but I don't know how much left we have to talk about. There's only somewhere. As we get to these later episodes, like, I'm like, oh, I already talked about these three really important things for, like, topic in another episode. We'll see, yeah.

0:55 I know, I know, we have at least two more topics that we definitely, I definitely want to talk about, but we might be with history guys, sorry to say, but that's OK because we're going to move on to another fun book and I guarantee you've all heard of it. Don't worry, this season, as we just mentioned, we'll be focused on the Imperion series by Rebecca Yaros. Disclaimer, These episodes will contain spoilers for the entire series. 4th Ring through Onyx Storm, including any bonus chapters.

1:21 If you haven't read the bonus chapters, I highly recommend reading the bonus chapters. They're on Rebecca's website. If you haven't finished Onyx Storm, save this and come back later. I know I personally have a couple of friends who have not yet finished Onyx Storm. Absolutely no shame if you have not finished Onyx Storm.

1:34 If you're new to this whole phenomenon, welcome. I too am relatively new to it, so we're happy to have you here. Due to the contents of this series, this podcast is rated R. These are spicy books. This might sometimes be a spicy podcast. Should only be listened to those comfortable hearing explicit content.

1:50 Each week we're going to dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are diving into signets, which should be very fun and we're looking forward to this one. We think we'll follow that structure. Your guess is as good as ours. We've been following it pretty good, but we do have a couple not following it episodes, including our mailbag episode last week, which was super fun.

2:07 But for the most part, this is the structure we follow. I think it's the structure we'll keep following with other books too. It's. Going to be interesting as we talk about other books, whether for finished series, for example. I don't know how much theory there is really as much as just like reactions and dissection. But yeah, it's been fun.

2:24 It's been working for the Empyrean series. God knows what we're going to do when the next book comes out. But we'll that's me of your thing about that. I know really no shade to other podcasts, I really appreciate what they're doing. Like I think everyone who's in this space is awesome. I just the chapter by chapter doesn't work for me because I read so fast that by the time they're on like chapter 12 I've been done with the book for like weeks. But we would have to actually record twice a day, like we'd have to record like in the middle of the day and at the end of the day.

2:53 Like we both have this problem where we can't, like I said last week that I was going to start the second Crescent City book this weekend. I'm on Chapter 40. I picked it up on Monday. Why did I do that? Right. So we'll see what happens. This is a future Abby and Roddy problem, not a current Abby and Roddy problem. Yeah.

3:11 But anyway, we hope you guys like this structure. We really like this structure. I also think it's helpful for seeing like patterns and stuff. So we'll probably stick to that. We have receipts. I think you guys know by now we have receipts. We know we have some crazy theories. We've heard your feedback that some of our theories are off the wall.

3:25 But I do think we have quotes and receipts for all of our theories and I'm willing to defend them until I realize I'm wrong and then I'm willing to defend the other side. Are we? Getting comments that we're off the wall. I mean, we are. Only in real life. Only in real life have people tell me your theories are fucking crazy.

3:40 But that's OK. Thank you for being respectful on the socials. We appreciate it. All right, before we dive in, Ronnie, I have a confession to make. Are you ready? I have brought great shame upon our family name because I went to Onyx Storm Trivia yesterday. OK, I did not come in first. What, you didn't win. We have a podcast about this game, and I can't stress enough that this kept me up last night.

4:06 Like I woke up at 4:00 in the morning, just like, how could I? How could I have not won all right? We have to share what you got wrong. Leading. We were literally leading every single round. And then the fifth round came, and I think we just bet things wrong. I think we have like, you know, at the end of each trivia round, you can bet. I think if we had bet differently, it would have been OK.

4:27 All right, here are the things I got wrong, maybe in order. I forgot the name of the Flyer Academy, I wrote. Brisbane Academy. It's Cliff, Spain. Cliff, Spain Academy. I know if you had been there, we would have won. I don't live there. I know I overthought on when Aunt Darta's egg was laid, so I put 620 years because I remembered that it was like 20 years before the Great Unification.

4:49 But it's six. It's 650, it's straight 650. I will say I got the number 100% correct for how many cadets died on conscription day crossing the parapet, which was 67. I got that to AT the big one I. Think I would have helped you win but continue. The big one that I'm really frustrated because I I knew this and my partner knew this and we just like fucked up putting in the answer was the question was who raised Zaden and Liam after their parents died?

5:13 And we were like, I was pretty sure the answer was Lyndell, but my gut was Llewellyn. But I was like, I think it's Lyndell. I think it's Lyndell. And then this is the type of trivia where you run out of time. So we just like we at the last second, like backspaced it to put in Lyndell, but we ran out of time. So we just put in like the letter Li was like fuck. Got that one?

5:33 Yeah, I know. And we literally lost it like the last second. It was so frustrating. But I hated it though, because I was so nervous. I was like drenched and sweat the whole time. Like leading from the front like that. I was like, this is this is too nerve wracking. Like I can't, I can't do this. It was fun.

5:49 It was a good time. I just obviously wish I had one. And here's the real bullshit. Here's a real bullshit. You ready? The first prize, $300.00 in cash. The second prize? A $20.00 gift card to the fucking bar. Oh, that's sad. At least you could have a shot, but. In sadness, I know. And we went up to collect our prize.

6:06 And the woman who was running, it was like, you guys were so good. And we were like, yeah, but we didn't win. And she was like, that's true. Anyway, so I'm sorry to you and to everyone I've let you down. I'll try to do that next time. I love doing this podcast. I am excited for like the part where we just like, are reading again. Oh, I know.

6:26 Well, that's what I'm I'm enjoying that with the current book that I'm reading for this podcast. Like I am just reading it and I'm just enjoying it and kind of reveling in it. But I also know, I also know that I will, because I actually started rereading Onyx Storm to cram for trivia yesterday. I can't do that.

6:46 So I reread the first like 6 or 7 chapters and I was like, I actually think I like this book so much more now that I've spent so much time thinking about it. Like I'm still catching new things. Yeah, it's. Definitely. I mean every once in a while, like especially now, so for everybody listening, I used to just prep with the physical books, which was insane.

7:06 Now I prep with the Kindle books and I as I'm searching through things, I'm coming across things where I'm like, I have no idea who that person is. My God, I know. No, I do what? Like what was happening here? Hold on a second. And then I'll read a random passage that like when you're reading sometimes just like it's all relativity, right? Like some things stand out a lot and then some things absolutely do not.

7:25 And I'm very much, I know that I'm going to reread this book again in the far future because like, yeah, right now. And I'll catch new things, I'm sure. I know I, I said this before, but I'm for one, I'm actually really happy that it's going to take her two years to write the next one because that'll put a lot of distance between US and these books. But then we get to reread them and like, I think that's great. I would view that more as silver lining. I wouldn't say I'm happy about it. Oh.

7:48 Don't worry, the graphic novels are coming. Rebecca, I love you, but what the fuck? OK, all right, hold on. I do have a small rant about this and I also love her and I have no issue. Well OK, I do, I do. She said she needed a break. She said she needed a break from the Imperial and now she is, instead of writing the next book, writing these graphic novels. It's Rebecca.

8:13 I hope that you are spending five hours a week in total reviewing these and not creating any content for them. Otherwise like we need to start working. I just want to be so clear about this. I love her and she has brought so much joy to my life. I love her. We're so beautiful. Nothing but respect for her. I just.

8:31 Yeah, anyway. All right, Ronnie, what signet would you choose to have if it were a choice? So this one was fun because I feel like we both really love Violet and I also just like tend to identify better with female characters because I'm a woman. But when I was thinking about what Cygnet I would actually want, like out of all the ones that we've been presented with, I think I choose shadows.

8:57 I think I choose shadows not because they help like shield you or keep you hidden or anything like that, but because the sneaky thing about them is they literally act as physical extensions of you. Like they help you see, they help you hear, they touch things, they do things. Like I could be, not to just turn this into my regular life right now, but I could literally just be on the couch doing my laundry with my shadows like that.

9:22 To me it's like they're obviously a really powerful battle signet, but like, in terms of things I would just enjoy having, I think I'd choose shadows. Do you think astral projection would also give you that power though? Like I low key feel like Quinn had an incredibly powerful signet. Incredible. And then she.

9:38 And then she just. She just died. Like I remember actually realizing what her signet was like later than when they had first revealed it. And I was like, wait a second. Yeah. We'll we'll get to that because I have some thoughts on it, but yeah, OK. Yeah, I would do shadows. What about you? I think I have two answers.

9:56 Like me with my own life. Like if I'm Abby living my life. That's how I answered. Yeah, definitely distance wielding, like for sure, Yeah, like it would be so much more convenient. You love to travel so. Not have to not have to commute anywhere like just to like be like in New York like that. That would be great.

10:14 All right, corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. Yes, one. Social media shout out. So we posted a clip talking about my like, admittedly unhinged theory about the earrings leaving magic in the continent and that's why the continent has magic. And a commenter, Sam J Casino commented does Indarna have watching mark the end of the experiment and lessen the magic they left behind and that's why the wards are falling. I love this comment.

10:43 I don't know if I I don't have enough to like defend it, but we don't have a great answer as to why the wards are falling. No, I was thinking about this. We've been talking about this for 9 episodes now and we still don't have a great answer. I think we'll get there in history, but or like get to at least some hypothesis in history, but we still haven't really figured out even talking about Ben and even talking about Dragons and how the wards fall and then coincide with the venom strengthening. I don't know why they're falling. Yeah, I would agree.

11:10 I would agree. And that might be because we don't have the answers or because we haven't thought about it fully yet. And I especially after rereading some of the stuff for our next episode, I'm like, we have to do a full history deep dive. The amount of time she's putting these history things in there. And my brain is just going, this is important, this is important, pay attention to this.

11:31 And then of course, I like lose it. You almost have to just like, literally write all of it down. Which I know I might have to just reread them all, I don't know. Yeah. I can't do that. Anyways, Sam Jay Casino, your your comment was thought provoking. Thank you for shouting it out. We'll revisit it in a in an episode where we have more to say.

11:49 Yeah. All right. I don't have I I had a correction, but it has morphed into my precog theory, so I'm gonna. OK, shut it down for now. OK. All right, deep dive, you ready? OK, first question, not really a question, but first topic Ignit roundup and Venin balance commentary. Yeah. Should we start with our girl on this one?

12:12 I feel like there's a lot to say, Violet. Yeah. Being our girl or theophany. Well, I was, I was thinking Violet. OK, we should also talk about theophany. Sure. OK, so Violet, I had a few thoughts here. So we know the Violet as far as her signets, according to this book, Lightning Wielder, I have a legend in parens there. We know that Felix has said Violet wields pure power that takes the form of lightning because it's what she's most comfortable with.

12:41 It has not become clear to me whether that's a special Violet thing or how a certain type of signet works, the type of signet where you create rather than grow what exists already. But that's what Felix has said. We also know, yeah, we know that certain signets manipulate which already what already exists, which is like shadows, fire, etcetera, and then others create lightning wards. That's pretty much it at this point, yeah. Then I also have dreamwalker parens alleged. I have a lot of allegeds when it comes to Pilot. She realizes she's walked into Zayn's dreams and one of Marin's dreams.

13:16 And this is not news to you or to any of our listeners, but I really strongly believe there's more to this than just dreamwalking. I think she can walk into people's minds. I think she she's been leveraged Terran to show other people things through their Dragons, and I think she's already accidentally walked into Zayden's mind both while he's been unconscious and also while he's conscious. Yeah, I, I, I went back and reread one of the passages where they're talking about like the memory sharing and whether or not that's like a bond thing or a signet thing. And I'm like, I don't know, it's so, so weird. I I don't think we're supposed to know at this point. But yeah, the idea that like her

13:53 and Zayden are just fully like transferring memories degrees between each other, I think is going to come into play in a huge way, probably when she needs to remember what happened during those 12 hours. Yeah, yeah. I also think one of the actually two of the times that she has hypothesized Zaden Signet strengthening and reading her mind, she's actually accidentally speaking directly to him. So the 1 is when.

14:20 There's one where she means to speak to Taryn, and then she realizes it's the wrong, wrong pathway. Yeah, that's when they're in cordon. Yeah, The first time is when she's walking up the steps, she's like, will you keep me if I crawl? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Zayn says you're not crawling. And she's like, shit, wrong pathway. I think she's accidentally talking to Zayn at that point, potentially.

14:42 And then the second time Rebecca's sneaky tries to tell us, she says, like, it feels so right to be in his arms. And yeah, yeah, yeah. She says this in her mind. He's like, because it is. And she was like, wait a second, I didn't say that out loud. And he says, well, you must have thought it down the bond because I wasn't pushing into your intentions. And that's what she actually says. Like, well, maybe his signet is strengthening. I don't think that's right because Zaden knows when he's using his signet.

15:09 He's like, I wasn't pushing into your intentions. I wasn't trying to read anything. You just said something to me. I do think though, there's a time where he might have done it with Halden or something. There is, yeah. Right. And she says that's not how your signet works. He like explodes and like pushes How then?

15:27 Up against the wall with his shadows. Yeah, Yeah, I think that is happening. Like I think he can also read minds, but I think the time where he specifically says I wasn't pushing is interesting, right, Because I think it means that she could be she's projecting, she's pushing herself. Yeah, interesting. OK.

15:44 And then the third bullet that I have under Violet, and I'm curious your thoughts here is just like something else question mark. Like Violet sometimes appears to use the signet of other people. Like she just has power and she can just parry with any signet. Dane reads her memories. She's like, I see you here. I'm pulling you into this memory with me. And even though it first seems like it doesn't work, it clearly does because Dan then joins the rebellion in the throne scene, she flipped Zayden's signet on his head and reads his mind. And she also sees dead Liam.

16:16 Like what else is happening here? Like does Violet even have a signet? Or Or is she just pure power? Yeah. I'm going to be honest with you. I did not spend that much time thinking about Violet Signet because we did the Violet deep dive, and I was like, surely there's no more to talk about. But once again, I've been proven wrong.

16:31 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the throne room scene, I don't know. And she does it to Zaden. She does it to Zaden at the beginning of Onyx Storm when he forgets that he's been in and they start fooling around. Yeah. Yeah. And people have said, I just want to get it out there. Like there are theories out there where people think that Violet is a mimic, like she can just mimic other people's signets.

16:51 I don't we've not seen that in anyone except for Zaden, because even with Dane, she's not using his signet, right? Like she's pulling him down. She's like, I recognize you in my mind right now and we're going down. I don't know though, is she not like she is definitely reading Zaden's memories? Like when when he sends her the memory when she's trying to wield with car and he sends her the memory of them hooking up. Like, she's definitely doing it.

17:19 Yeah, over a distance. Pain's not there. I know she's even more powerful than Dane. If she can do it over, she doesn't need to touch Daven. Yeah. I don't know though, cuz that could be a bond thing. There's so much at play here. I do think, and I wonder if you've given any thought to this, that they say she wields pure power and lightning is what she chooses and there might not be anything deeper to this.

17:40 Then it's like a nice nod, but like, Lilith was a storm wielder, right? So like, in her mind, the most powerful thing is to be a storm wielder and she manifests as lightning, which I just think is kind of a nice connection there. Yeah, I think I actually noted that down I more than anything. I have no fun theories about this.

17:57 I just think it's so sweet that like Lilith was a storm wielder, Violet first manifests a lightning wielding signet and like we see right in the battle of Bizgayeth that Lilith can start like creating storms to make her daughter stronger. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know which. Are there other signets that work that way?

18:16 Are there other signets where one can create like a condition that makes it easier for the other to I'm I am thinking about Bodie and Garrick. I'm going to be honest with you right now. Interesting, I went a different place. I was worried that we had the same precog theory for a minute. No, no, no, mine is not.

18:32 Yeah, No, it's not. Mine, I'm just going to get to, I'm going to get to mine as we talk. I think there could be a case for that being true of Violet and other people. Often like we see other people become more powerful than they normally are when they're around Violet. Just when they're around her, like she's giving off access. Well, and Brennan, I mean Brennan errors Mira. Brennan sees Mira.

18:54 Re summons through the wall and violets there, yeah. Oh, my God. She is a conduit. That's what they say. They say she's the conduit. Fuck. Wow. I'm really glad you brought this up. Yeah, I mean, as I said, I haven't spent much time thinking about that, but yeah, there's something to that, that she just makes everyone more powerful around her.

19:11 I like that more than the Mimic if I'm being honest. Yeah, I think it I think it fits more too, because it's really hard to identify exact moments where she mimics, right? Like does exactly what the other is capable of doing. But she seems like signet versatile. And also we know that like Mira was able to create words around her, right? Rihanna was able to summon through a wall around her. And the bone spur out of Terence's leg. And the bone spur out of Terence, which is the biggest thing that she had summoned.

19:40 Ever summoned? Yeah. Brennan keeps Mira from dying when he was pretty sure that he wouldn't be able to. Obviously Sloan helped the. Sloan was a big part of that one, yeah. So I don't know, could be a. Pattern and Zaden is obviously just getting stronger and stronger. So the question is, is that just time passing and they're just naturally getting stronger. And I mean, I know we're going to get into this later, but this could be an explanation for Dane having so much power too, right? Like he spent so much time with Violet. I realized that's before she was a writer, but. Yeah, I think there's there's a lot of options for why Dane could be the way that he is, most of which we don't know the answers to currently.

20:18 Yeah, OK. And then on the balance, I'm like 99% sure the Violet has no balance because of what? I don't agree. You don't agree? Interesting. I know what Theophany said. I know what Theophany said. So in chapter 60 of Onyx Storm, the reason that I don't think Violet has a balance, We've talked about this quote from Theophany before, and I used it to imply that Violet could potentially not just be human, not just be venom, be both, right?

20:46 I still think that. But in chapter 60, Bodhi says magic requires balance, right? Theophany says it's the oldest rule there is, but once a century or so we get a chance to skew the scales in our favor, and I will prove myself to him this time. In that same chapter, Violet says. Violet realizes that Theophany is not a lightning wielder, and Theophany says of course I'm not. Theophany flicks a finger and the clouds above us begin to rotate.

21:10 There is only one exception to the rule of Violet. Sorengil. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be you. If it was going to be one of her daughters, I'd have. I'd have bet on your sister. I think that is Theophany saying there's no balance to you I. Totally, I totally agree, and I will tell you right now that my theory on Violet's balance is tentative at best.

21:33 OK, I want to hear it. And I know Theophany said that there is no balance to you and I I would love if that turns out to be the case. She didn't say that in so many words, so I think there's definitely room. OK, I keep coming back to the scene in Fourth Wing where Jack is on the mat with Violet and he has his hands on her and it feels, she feels like pure power is being pushed into her, right?

22:00 I keep coming back to that scene because number one, she does not have grey handprints on her when it's done right. So he's not draining her. He's not channeling 2IN Onyx Storm when they're doing the signet, the signet sparring and there's that girl who does channel at the end because she's just so desperate. She doesn't know what to do.

22:18 She channels, they kill her instantly, right? The professors recognize the signs of channeling and they kill her right away. And that really freaks out Violet, right, because she's like, fuck, what are they going to do when they find out about Satan? But no one killed Jack. So I think whatever he's doing here is his segment and is not not abandoned thing.

22:35 And I'm going to find the quote real quick. So she says. Agony fills every cell in my body as violent vibrating energy riffs through me with an intensity that makes it feel like he's cleaving. Ligament from bone, muscle from tendon. I scream as I'm shaken by an internal force I don't understand, as though he's forcing his own power into my body, shocking me with 1000 stings of vibrating energy.

22:59 Hands reach for us both, and I hear both Riddick and Amatario cry out, jerking their hands away after contact. Whatever Jack is doing is transferring from me to them by touch. So I don't necess. I'm not again, I'm not 100% sold on this, but like when I read it, my first thought was he's pushing pure power into her and trying to kind of burn her out basically like burn her from the inside. I don't think obviously he's not a lightning wielder and I don't necessarily think he's as powerful as Violet, but it sounds kind of similar to me, right? Like it's just like pure power being pushed into someone. And the idea that that would also kind of leak on to other people, like we were talking

23:38 about with a conduit as well. The argument against this is that the Venom tried to kill Jack, right? Like Theophany throws the dagger at him, they try to kill him. If they knew they had someone that powerful, why would they try to kill him? So I'm not sold on it, but I do think whatever Jack is doing in that scene is his segment.

23:58 It's not a Venom thing. I think that's where we're supposed to figure out what his signet is. I don't necessarily think we have enough information to do that. Yeah. And he would be totally crazy if it turns out that Jack is kind of like the big bad of this whole series. I don't think he's like earned that.

24:11 But that's that's just my I don't know. I was, I went back and re read and I was like, actually that kind of sounds like Violet signet. If she were to channel directly, if she were to push her power like directly into. Somebody. Yeah, Yeah. Interesting. It's interesting that that's where you went with it, because, I mean, he's on our list of people whose signets we don't know, right? And so I have thought about his and I wondered whether he like that.

24:33 You thought of Violet, I thought of a siphon, but with nothing on the other side. Right. I also, it could be a siphoning thing, but I don't know, like, I mean, I know that Dane, like Sloan says I'm going to hurt you and Dane says yeah, I know. And we know that that's him being cute because he's really talking about his feelings.

24:50 But like. It. Could be a siphoning thing. Yeah, it yeah, it could be. It could be. But it, I don't know that we've seen a siphon like do that without a source, right? Like he's basically that he's the source at that point, which does make him like Violet potentially. When Sloane drains from Dane, I think what he says to her basically is like, you won't have enough power.

25:16 Use me, I don't have to wield today. So I do think a siphon can literally transfer their own energy. Yeah, that would make sense. It could be siphoning too. Emmett area was there, right? So like wouldn't he have recognized siphoning? Wouldn't he have been like, oh, you're a siphon? I don't know. But it is interesting that we don't really have a confirmed signet for jacket.

25:37 No. And I did see somewhere that Rebecca said that the hearing violets like pain in the cell is a vetting thing and not a signet thing. Interesting. Yeah, that's a bummer. I was intrigued by that one. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. OK, OK, interesting. So my theory is Violet doesn't have a balance. Your theory that you're not completely sold on, but it's interesting, is that Jack could be a balance.

26:01 Yeah, also because how could Mira have a balance like, well, on the venin side, like how does that make any sense? I don't think that either of them have a balance. No balance is hurt, OK. I mean, like, let's think about it logically, right? Like if we accept Violet as wielding pure power, the Venon all wield pure power.

26:22 Yeah, like, yeah. So like what is is every Venon the balance to Violet? And if we think about Mira Signet, which is effectively shielding, right? Like I know we it's creating wards, but if you think about like the Perry to the Venon, it is creating a shield from their power, then like the Venon equivalent would be creating a shield from what Dragon magic, right.

26:44 Exactly. I don't know. I don't know. OK, I had Zayden next. So Zayden is a shadow wielder. He's also an intention reader, but this seems to be growing into more direct mind reading since he's become Venom. We know that he unfortunately is now the Venom side of the balance and Lynx is his earth side balance, if you will, his rider balance.

27:08 I don't think there's too much more. Yeah, it's like for that, like who's the intention reader on our side now? I. Have a theory? I do have a theory. I think it might be a toast. I'll tell you why. I have a couple reasons why. When they get back from Athabine and they have to lie their way back into Basgayev basically and say, hey, by the way, we're not dead.

27:29 And here's what happened. Zaden is very clear with Violet that she cannot lie to a toast. Zaden lies to a toast, but he's like, you can't lie. Just tell the truth. Make it selective, but do not lie no matter what you do. When Zaden lies to Atos, the quote is he's lying, Colonel Atos accuses. The certainty in his voice makes my head swim with the possibility that we might not pull this off, that we might be killed where we still we stand before we have the chance to convince my mother.

27:55 And then so he accuses Zaden of lying, right. But like, that's kind of like, whatever, not a big deal. But then when Violet is telling her her side of the story and she does tell the truth, she doesn't lie. Selective truth, Zaden reminds me, tells no lies. Violet doesn't lie. Atos does not accuse her.

28:11 And I think what this might be is Zayden realizing that Atos can read minds. And maybe Atos also realizes that Zayden can read minds, but like they can't like reveal it to each other or they're like, it's kind of mutually assured destruction. Interesting. And Dane is has intensic powers too, right?

28:30 So wouldn't it make sense that his dad has intensic powers? So that's it's not my strongest theory, but yeah, I am leaning towards Atos having some kind of intention reading intensive reading abilities. I was thinking he was the truth Sayer, but that seems like a pretty common theory. I think it's going to be a pretty common signet.

28:47 So I think it's going to be more powerful than that. And if we know that if we go with Atos being venom, which we do, there has to be a venom that can read intentions, right? I mean, theophany can kind of do it, but. But that doesn't make him the balance right? Like now they're on the same well. Yeah, now they're on the same side, but so it's going to take a little while for a new intention reader to pop up.

29:09 I definitely had Atos's like hypothesis for like signets that he might have as all basically all mind work. Yeah. Because of Dan and also because we don't know what it is. So like it seems like non classified cygnets and leadership, we're we're pretty aware of them. Like we're aware of Lillis, we're aware of Mel grins. Interesting.

29:27 No, I do think it's, I definitely think, I definitely think it's a mind work thing. Yeah. And that and that does mean we're going to get another intensic on the rider side. Yeah. Like someone else needs to manifest that in order for there to be a balance or already have it like that's possible too.

29:43 Yeah, OK. And then I had Garrick next. I mean, he's an air wielder and he's a distance wielder. Like his balance seems to be Theophany and several others. Like this is the part that confuses me kind of because we'll get the we'll get to this when we talk about the six most powerful. But I feel like we have been told that distance wielding is is a once in a century signet and like quite rare. Yeah.

30:06 And there seem to be a lot. On that, yeah, I know it's very. Like they all turn, which is kind of crazy because maybe. Including Garrick? Who knows? Maybe including Garrick. Yeah. Yeah. So I just thought that one was kind of funny because I feel like we've been led to believe that that's super rare and we just see Venom walking the continent, like left and right. Also, Zaden's line.

30:29 This just occurred to me. Zaden's line about when we find out that there hasn't been a a distance wielder in centuries is doesn't. Don't you think if there was a distance wielder, if I was a distance Wheeler, I'd be in your bed every night. But he is stationed with Garrick, right? They are together and we know that Garrick can lift a fucking dragon up, can lift Goose.

30:50 Dragon, right? Yeah. He could have been in Violet's bed every night. Yeah, what's happening here? And by the way, the reason we know Garrett can lift a dragon up a Cliff is because when they're at Dreyfus and Mira and Tain are both injured. And Violet asked Bodie, could Garrett get Tain up that Cliff?

31:05 And he says on a normal day, yes, but today he's going to be too tired to do it, which is insanity. It's not just distance wielding. It's like super strength. It's like crazy. It's insane. I also I think it's not a strong explanation but I'm chalking a little bit of that the fact that Garrett's not carrying Zayden to Violets bed every night no matter what Riddick and all of them say. I do think that Garrick is very invested in Violet being safe and Zaden not being like harmful to Violet and it's honestly more for Zaden that he feels that way because he knows it would absolutely destroy Zaden if anything ever happened to Violet.

31:41 But he definitely like Garrick and Bodie are not pro. No, I know. Ben and Zaden hanging out with Violet, They don't condone it. They're like, should you maybe get your own bed? But do you think at some point Zaden and Garrick had a conversation where Zaden was like, so can you get me to Violet every night?

31:57 And Garrick was like, no. I do. I actually do. Like that's what I'm saying is I think like brother to brother, they was like, I would be in your bed every night and Garrick's like, no, you fucking won't. Actually, I will not use my power for you. Yeah, literally. Yeah, OK. The next one I had was Bodie.

32:19 So do you want to start with Bodie or do you want me? To OK, well, so this gets it gets into my sis like what we think suspected second segment is. OK, I don't have an answer, a hard answer on what I think Bodie second signet is, but I have some theories about it. So first, we know that him and Zaden communicate over great distances when Zaden is posted at Samara and we know that leadership is reading all of the letters that are sent to and from Zaden, right? So and Zaden finds out about Varish pushing Violet to burn out from Bodie.

32:53 So my question is, how did Zaden find that out? Like I, I'm pretty sure at this point in time he hasn't like talked to Bodie yet. Like he pretty, I think this is when he just shows up in Violet's room. Because clearly if Bodie writes in a letter, hey, Varish almost pushed Violet to burn out, Varish is going to confiscate that letter and not let it get sent in my mind, right?

33:10 So like how is Bodie talking to Zayden over these great distances and telling him what's going on? Couple things happen when Violet asked Bodie about his second signet. So first. So Violet says what's your second signet? He lifts his brows and glances and Garrick's direction don't have 1A corner of his mouth lifts into a wry smile that reminds me of his cousins don't have one just like Zadan.

33:35 Why? So that leads me to kind of two thoughts here. 1 is kind of what I referenced before, the fact that he looked at Garrick. I'm wondering if their signets kind of complement each other, like if Garrick can draw on Bodhi for strength or if Bodhi and the distance wielding like helps whatever Bodhi second signet is.

33:52 And he says don't have one just like Zadan, which makes me think it's an intensic thing again. But he can't tell anyone because he'll be killed. I And there's been again like every thing that that gets mentioned has turned out to be real. There's mention of something called a sound seeker. There's a guy named Greeley who's Mel Grin's lackey or something, who's a sound seeker who can hear over great distances, like miles apart.

34:17 I was thinking kind of in that direction, but I don't know that that really works because obviously Bodie is telling Zayden things as a like in addition to possibly hearing things over great distances, like if they're having conversation. So I don't necessarily think it's that, but I'm thinking something in that direction and I don't really, I don't really know, but those are my thoughts about it. I mean, I think I absolutely think we wouldn't have heard don't have one just like Zaden if he didn't have one. So I'm like, I'm definitely ignoring the possibility that he doesn't have a second segment.

34:50 Like, that's not real to me. Just for anyone who's listening, we know that his first one is countering signets. Yes, sorry, he's countering signets, but he can't counter the oftening. The oftenings. Yeah, the oftenings he's not. He's led to believe he's not powerful enough. Whether or not that's really what it is, I don't know. Not powerful enough, can't counter venom signets don't know, but that we we learned that I don't have great theories on what his second signet could be. I have one that's like absolutely baseless, but it's more just akin to his character.

35:20 So like Bodhi is the spare, right? And he doesn't want to be like he everything about him is like, I just want to protect my province, protect my cousin. I don't want to be in charge. I don't want to lead. And we know that cygnets are derived based on neat. And so I'm like, what kind of signet could come from somebody who effectively just doesn't want to be noticed?

35:41 We haven't heard of any signet that results in you being like undetectable or I had. I had invisibility down here at one point, yeah. Is Bodhi invisible like an Darna? Like an Darna, Right? Like. Exactly. And when you talk about the times when Violet wasn't sure, like how he knew something or how he found out something, like was he there? Like was he just there?

36:03 And his second segment is whether it's like actual true invisibility or whether it's just some form of mind work that makes anyone who's there like unable to notice him. Basically, there's a point actually where in battle brief after battle brief, when they're talking about who should be chosen for for some challenge, Violet was like, I can't believe nobody thought about Bodie. Like I forgot about Bodie, but like his thing that would be incredibly powerful in terms of defense. And I don't think that's a coincidence. I think Bodie wants wants to be as undercover, covert, not the center of attention as possible.

36:37 And so I think his second segment is going to have something to do with that. Yeah, I totally, I totally agree. And I and like I said, I walked down that same Rd. but then I was like, I don't know if I have enough to go off of here, but like, yeah, I think. And it could be camouflage the way that and Darna can camouflage, right. There's also a moment where they're talking about who to pick for Quest squad.

36:56 And I think Violet is basically like Bodhi, do you want to come? And he's like, no, you should take Garrick. But maybe Bodhi secretly did come. Yeah, no, I don't exactly. I think like if you if, if you're like take Garrick, then Garrick could get him there and you wouldn't even know. Yeah, that's true.

37:12 Yeah. Why did Garrick bother flying to the aisles? Well, appearances, obviously. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I I think we're being pushed towards some kind of invisibility, camouflage, second son situation for Bodie. Yeah. I just also still think there's an argument for intensive too well. I think I think it could also be mind work. Like I think he could achieve at the same end with an intensive ability that makes him able to make people see what he wants them to see basically, which is not him. Yeah, like if Bodie can do that.

37:50 Would be crazy. That's almost balancing Violet segment the mind walking right, like making people and I and I had this thought with Bodie like making people see things that are not there. Like that's making people not see things that are there. Yeah, yeah. I think of Violet as she can enter people's minds, put things into people's minds. Bodie could be also a form of putting things in people's minds I guess, but it's really a subtraction active method. Like Imogen, but like with some more like precise, like surgical.

38:22 Yeah, yeah, current. And you're only forgetting that Bodhi was there. You're not forgetting everything. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Or could just be good old fashioned visibility. Yeah, The only other thing I had about Bodie, and I know we talked about this in the beginning, like we don't know who his dad is. And I think it's interesting because in Fourth Wing, before they're about to fight in Wesson, Bodie makes peace with dying and says I wouldn't mind seeing my mother anyway. Not his dad.

38:48 So is his dad. Is his dad? Alive. Or is his dad just not important? Either way I'm interested. Like I want to know. Yeah, that's a great point. And I like, I have nothing on Bodie's dad aside from that, but it makes me wonder. Mom, was Zayden's bodies related to Zayden through his mother, not through his father.

39:08 Yeah. Fan had a sister. Fan had a sister. Yeah, interesting. So to know. I feel like this is just how this episode's going to go. We're not going to have like concrete. Sorry guys, This isn't going to be 1 for concrete answers. I just don't think there's necessarily enough in here. But yeah, good conversations, hopefully. Hopefully you're having.

39:27 I also find that when I listen to other people talk about these things, I realize things. So maybe you're realizing things if you are. Let us. Know comment them Lilith storm wielding balance the off the more here yeah cool Brennan mending balance kind of depends on what Brennan is. Right. Yeah. So the only other Mendor I think that we know of is Nolan, right? Do we know of any other Mendors?

39:54 There are other Mendors, like a Mendor showed up at Samara, but also it's supposed to be a pretty rare segment, yeah. So rare signet Brennan has it if you accept Vennon or Vennon Brennan has a rider. I don't think that we know of a vennon mender at this point. I think that if there are vennon menders, they are resurrectors. Like if the floor to your power is non existent, I think you're bringing back people from the dead. I.

40:22 Think almost fundamentally, because I, I was looking back at this again and trying to figure out, I was like really racking my brain about the mending because you're not actually mending things. What you are is returning them to their original state. So it's almost like there can't be venom menders because they can't return to their original state. And it also seems like when you kill a Venom, like you can't really injure A venom, like you can only kill them is kind of my understanding because they always desiccate, right? And venom desperately don't want to be returned to their original states.

40:56 Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I don't know that there would be a purpose for a vendor, yeah, on the Venom side. So maybe they just don't view it as particularly attractive except for if they can resurrect, in which case, like that's maybe useful. Yeah, yeah. Don't know. The next one I had was Mira. I don't see how there can be a balance. This is what This is why I think Mira is actually the exception to the rule.

41:22 But we know she's not the only Ward Weaver. There are others. Can we can we start with some context? So Mira Sigmund is ward manipulation and now creation. And before we get to balance, I think we just need to talk about Mira for a second because she can conjure her own wards, which is something that we learned through the Iron Flame. Takes quite a lot to do.

41:43 OK. And so let's talk through the the times that we know she did it the first time she does it in cordon when Viscount Dakaris makes Violet fight that venom that he had held in the ribostad chest. And when I went back and reread it, I was thinking to myself, well, daggers are present, so could she have leveraged their capabilities? Maybe.

42:05 But then I quickly turned myself around on that because in Onyx Storm we have that epigraph. I think it's chapter 42 is what I had written. I hope that's right where Carr writes to Lilith though. Her extraordinary signet allows her to extend the words around herself and her dragon cadet Sorengal lacks the consistent ability to produce her own wards without extreme emotional distress.

42:29 I'm sorry to report, I doubt this ability will develop in time. I had such hopes for her. So we know that she actually has done it in extreme emotional distress before that time. That's an Onyx Storm epic. I'm looking for the quote. Nope, you're right, it was iron flame. It's iron. Flame. Iron Flame Chapter 42.

42:46 So interesting, did they know the words that Bezgiath were going to fall and did they want to use Mira to conjure new ones? Well, but we know that Melgren didn't know that the words were going to fall. We know that, Melgren said. He didn't know the words were going to fall. The marked ones were there when it happened.

43:01 I know, right? That's why I'm saying I don't think this. Is like, yeah. To think about. So we know that Mira can, and Mira has, and she almost burns out protecting Violet and Brennan. I have two. We're just going to get to my brief hug theories in the middle of these episodes, because why not?

43:19 I have two things of note to say before we talk about Mira's balance. How are words created? How are Ward stones powered? Dragon fire. With seven freaking Dragons. Seven Dragons breathing into a ward stone plus power. Tyna in Gaelic means fire. Does mirror signet actually represent dragon fire? Which would be crazy, but as mirror as signet dragon fire.

43:45 Well what? So what do you mean? Like what would she has power like? When you think about the things that compose award, you've got the fire of the Dragons, and then you have power, like the imbuing of the stone. Yeah, let's ignore the fact that you need alloy for a second, because I don't know what Lilith did to Mira, what her legacy was, right?

44:04 Like, we don't know that at this point. But those two things between Mira having power from China and like, what else is that? What other part of the equation is there? Yeah, yeah. No I I cannot wrap my mind around this one. Like this is something that requires like you said 7 Dragons and a stone. Is it an Onyx stone?

44:26 A mostly metal stone with with runes weave onto it. Yeah. And she can just do it like, yeah, I don't know. How is that possible? I I don't know. I don't have an answer. Feels almost artificial like it does. It feels like something was like done to her that makes this possible. You think Lilith did something to her? You think this is Lilith?

44:45 Yeah. You think this is? I think Lilith legacy could have something to do with it but I think it's more I'm more just like can't wrap my brain around either either what she's doing is not actually wards like it's shielding of some kind or like something that we don't understand yet. Or her signet has to have like she has to intrinsically somehow create the power of dragon fire from 7 different Dragons. Like I mean, so she is not the only ward Weaver, there are others, but.

45:15 Is she the only one who can create them? I think she's the only one. I thought everyone can weave wards? Everyone can weave. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is where it gets confusing, right? The third years are taught how to weave wards. Everyone can weave wards to an extent. She can extend the wards. She manipulates wards, right?

45:32 Right. She can manipulate them, right. And then we find out in Cordon that she can actually just create them on her own. I don't know that any other ward Weaver can do that. So she might be the most powerful one. But are there even other word manipulators? What do you mean? Like are there other so weaving wards is a lesser?

45:48 Matter. Yeah, there are other ward manipulators. There are other word manipulators, I didn't know of those. I don't remember the exact quote, but there there are. But yeah, this as a signet and and I mean really what they're doing is extending the wards. But but Mira seems to have the ability to create them on her own when under extreme emotional distress, as you just mentioned with cars Epira.

46:09 Yeah, there was a really funny when I was looking up whether this theory, whether anybody else had thought about it, there was a comment on Reddit that was like that. Was like. Mira had ultra protected sex because because Violet always wielded in emotional distress when she was hooking up. With Oh my God.

46:26 Oh my God, that's really funny. Yeah. Do you think all riders wield? No, it's just, well, Zayden wields when he orgasms. OK. So to round out Mira, what comments do you have on Mira's balance? I don't see how she can have one. I don't either. I don't think she has a balance. Like they had to have Jack kill his dragon to take down the wards and if they had a Mira balance they could have just taken down the wards I think right Like they just snap of a hand no more wards.

46:57 So like in my mind I don't think the vennon have a balance or Mira. Yeah. Unless it's a different type of balance, right? Like right, Cuz yeah, unless it's what you're saying where they create words where dragon magic doesn't work anymore. Yeah, but which we actually do see kind of in Zaden's dream, right? His power works here, but mine never does. Yeah, that's true.

47:20 But violets does. But violets maybe not. Maybe building from the sky? And they're in a dream, though. My brain hurts. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know that Mira can have a balance. But then if that's true, then what Theophany was talking about Violet being an exception to a rule means that the rule isn't actually about balance then. Right?

47:38 Because she says. I've thought it would have been your other sister. OK, open question. Let us know your thoughts. Yeah, please, we beg you. But if it makes my brain hurt as much as it does right now, I may need to take a mental illness break before reading it. OK, Should we just do a little summary of Riddick and Liam?

47:54 Because we haven't really talked about about it and it's the only genuine oopsie that I think Rebecca has made. Sure. Yeah. OK, so Riddick, as we know, is a ice wielder. I think it's interesting that it's they call him an ice wielder when he can basically also manipulate water like he can just. Freeze and there are water wielders. In anything, Yeah.

48:15 So I don't know, like what differentiates those two or whether we'll talk about that in the limit of Sigmets. But he's bonded to a dragon called Atrium. Atrium means lightweight. What does that mean? Don't know. Ice is less dense than water. Yeah, maybe Liam had Farsight as kind of his known signet.

48:33 And then we see at one point that he wields ice. D means Ice, which is his Dragon Day DI. In my mind is day. Day day means ice. I There's been so many posts online about this so I would encourage you to just go read them for better explanations. But it seems like Rebecca intended to have Liam be the ice wielder originally and Riddick have Farsight originally, and it was an oopsie. Like she just didn't edit out the time that Liam wielded ice in that book.

49:00 And then we had to, we got second segments out of it, which I'm not bad about. I'm good with it, hear. What you're saying? And I definitely read that and was like, Oh yeah, that's definitely an oopsie because she doesn't even draw attention to it. It's just like, Liam was like holding a smile. It wasn't like something hold on.

49:15 Yeah, Violet wasn't like what the fuck? And then in the next book it comes up. Except that and we talked about this in the Zaid in Deep Dive, there are so many times in Fourth Wing where's Daydan is clearly reading Ryla's mind like, yeah, clearly. And that's a second segment, to be clear. I meant second segments as a result of the rebellion.

49:34 Rebellion Relic. Yeah, I yeah, I don't know, I it reads like an oopsie, but also. Maybe it's not an oopsie. That's fair. I don't know. Carefully laid groundwork. Who's to say? Who's to say? Who's to say? Yeah, OK, RE is a Summoner. Have we seen this on the Venom side yet? I admittedly didn't. So I thought about it and this was where I was kind of like, maybe the balance isn't always the same.

50:01 Theophany can knock like knives out of the air. With a just to flex them with a flex. Of her hands. So it's almost like she's a repeller instead of a Summoner. But yeah, we haven't seen summoning, but like, Theophany clearly has some. But this is what I mean. It's like we we know, like we're not going to have balances for everything, you know?

50:21 Yeah. But theophany has a surprisingly high number of balances. Yeah, I know. How does that work? How does that? Work. Yeah. What's happening? Or is that just like, really? Magics I don't know. No, I think this gets back to we're being lied to about what a signet. Maybe. OK, Sawyer's a metallurgist, so I don't have anything interesting on him.

50:42 Lynx is the balanced Zaiden. Imogen. Imogen. She erases memories. How far back that goes? Don't know. Seems to be getting stronger. Yeah. With time. Because I think we were presented with her as a eraser of recent memories. And then she erases half a day of Violet's life. Yeah. So. OK. And then she turned something into rock. So she's also an Earth wielder.

51:05 Can we just take a brief moment because I was reading the wiki on this and I know that we have a limited trust in the wiki. Although we love you wiki moderators, You do you do God's work or the gods work? Earth wielding has to be more than just turning things into stone, right? Yeah, yeah. So I thought about this because there's the line in Onyx Storm where Brennan's like, I can't mend him. And this is this is when Zaidan has obviously told Brennan that he's turned Vennon and he's asking him for help because he's trying to like, stay for Violet, basically. And he's like tomorrow, tomorrow he wants me to try to mend the spot on the Earth where he wielded. And Brennan can't do it.

51:44 But I'm wondering if Imogen can do it. Like if Imogen can like reimbue the earth with the magic and that could be a cure. I don't think it's going to come down to Imogen being the cure. But like we are told. So this is this is what's interesting about Imogen Sigma. I think we are told that the ground has inherent magic in it, right? That that is the source of magic. So with the earth that Imogen creates, does that also have that power in it or is it just kind of like dead earth? I don't know, but maybe that's how you reimbue the earth with magic.

52:17 Yeah, and it's so interesting too, because when I think Earth wielding, like when I was when we were first presented with that segment, I think like Avatar style, like literally like creating mountain or like creating valley or like splitting earth sort of thing. And and that would be consistent with things like ice wielding and fire wielding where you're manipulating the things that are there.

52:40 But instead what we see Imogen doing is turning something to stone. Like what is that? That's a great point because there's a venom in the battle of resin who is able to like, create a landslide basically. Like there's a there's a hill above and she creates. Yeah, that feels like. That's what I was talking about.

52:58 Yeah. Yeah. So then she. Got what Imogen is really doing is, I can't remember the name, the thing that Mcgonigal does in Harry Potter, Transfiguration. Thank you. Yeah, No, I think, I think it's right. She creates Earth not from nothing. She has to have something. But yeah, I think way more to come on that one in the next. Book.

53:16 Yeah, yeah, I think she's going to be good. And then I just had Theophony and Berwyn. You want to lead off on those or is there any other writers that we should talk through? No. So I mean, I just went through and talked about, as I said, the way I did this is I like took the point of view of, OK, what Vennon do we know? What powers do they have?

53:35 So distance wielding Berwyn and Theophany both had that. That balance is Garrick precog. Again, Berwyn and Theophany both seem to have this. And then we talked about this in the Vennon episode because maybe they share signets somehow. That's Eric. However, I would say we don't really know enough about the precog thing to know whether they're true precogs or they're just intention readers, blah, blah, blah. So Eric, Eric Asterisk, because maybe, maybe there's other balances here.

54:02 But also that means if Eric is not Vennon by the end of this book, which I don't necessarily think he is, that means that the Vennon are going to have a precog, which like a true precog if it's not Berwyn and Theophany, which I think is kind of scary if they don't already have one. Yeah, the dream walking is Berwyn is the balance, right?

54:19 So when Rebecca said there's only one person who can teach Violet how to hone her second signet, my assumption is that that person is Berwyn. Very curious to see how that's going to play out. Yeah, intention reading. So we've talked about this, the venom, the Violet fights at the end of 4th wing and all the venom, right, can like mirror your moves. And we find out that that's a Zaidan intention reading thing. So all of the venoms seem to have intention reading. That balance is at least Zaidan.

54:47 There's going to be another one because Zaidan is now Benin true intensic. This is what we were talking about with Theophany reading Bodie's mind. And maybe Bodie is the answer here. I had Bodie maybe, but I don't think we know enough yet to know who's the balance for that one. I mean we saw one manifest and die, so it's possible that they like.

55:06 They just keep fucking killing them. And then getting yeah, axed because that one who like manifested the segment live was like, I can't handle the voices in my head. And then they just snapped his neck. This. Storm wielding. OK I want to talk a little bit more about the storm wielding and Theophany being the balance for Lilith or Willeth being the balance for Theophany.

55:25 Because this means that Lilith is not Vennon, which a lot of people think Lilith was venom right? But if they are the balance to each other then Lilith is not venom. She was probably never venom and she was just tired that night and had red eyes. I subscribe to that view. I'm starting to, yeah.

55:40 I mean, I do too now that we've done this podcast. So yeah, I mean, both of these things cannot be true. I mean, I know there are other storm wielders, but it seems to be the balance thing has to do with the amount of power that you have to. And Lilith was obviously an incredibly powerful storm wielder.

55:56 Yeah. So that's just my only note on that. Like if if we believe that theophany is the balance for Lilith, then Lilith was not venom. Surprise, I think I would. I think we just readers in general do not set enough store by the fact that Theophany said she was the answer to me like that to me is like Lilith is on the human side, like she was there. She was not venom.

56:19 Right, because we know with links, right? It's like nature reacts to what's happening to create the signets, right? Yeah, or the Dragons are doing it, whatever. But like, basically that reaction is there because Links manifests after Zaden turns. It's not like they were always two shadow Wheelers and we're waiting for someone to turn. Yeah, yeah.

56:40 And then the one I think we're still missing if Naolan is alive and if he's event and then obviously Sloan is the balance there. I still think we're missing the the one who watches the one who watched in his signet. So for context, when Berwyn is talking to Zaden through dreams, he's like show me your power, show me how you wielded.

56:58 I forgot the exact wording but basically he's like the one who watched things you'll never yield. Implying that there was a venom who was watching what happened at resin, saw Zaden wields and now wants him but doesn't think he'll come. I still think that's that's kind of some kind of all seeing present Venon power that we haven't seen yet. So someone who knows everything thing that's happening at a given time, there is kind of an implication that possibly someone high up at Baz Gaiath might have this power too. Because at the end of Iron Flame, when Lilith comes to warn Violet and tell her that the Arishan wards won't work, they're falling.

57:36 Lilith says. Do you think that I would be ignorant to what's going on on our borders? Like, why would you think that? So could be spies, but it also could be this signet that someone high up at Baz guy has that we don't know where they can basically see everything that's happening at once. It's not a past thing.

57:52 It's not a future thing. Just kind of knowing at the present everything that's happening. This is pure conjecture. I don't know that this is a real signet. I don't know that this will happen. This is just kind of my, my theory right now. Yeah, that's all I had on that one. Should we move on? All right. Theories on signets, we don't know. Do you have any more than other than what we've talked about so far?

58:13 So there's a bunch of people who sickness we don't know, right? I had on my list, but I'm sure it's actually longer. Panchek, Caroline Ashton, Deborah Emmettario, Grady, Tara Felix, Jack Barlow. We already talked about, but I think I just want to acknowledge there are a lot of people who sickness like we do not know. The only thought that I had on any of those people was Felix pure conjecture again, that I think it could be fun if he had some sort of signet where he could sense others signets. Like he is such a better teacher then car on how to not just like wield your signet, but like understand it and use it. And is like the reason that Violet understands how to use her power.

58:55 She wields pure power. Like as far as we know, both other people don't do that. And so how does he know that, right? Like how does he understand it? So I thought that could be a fun one. I don't know. Yeah, I like that idea. I have no reason to think or not to think that, but I think it makes sense, yeah. Yeah.

59:14 And then I had a bullet. Is Sloane going to have two signets? Yes, but I have no ideas on what those are. OK, I I gave a little bit of thought to this. I don't think we know enough. I really don't think we know enough. But I had two thoughts. One second signets always seem to be more powerful than first signets, and her first signet is really powerful, like Imogen head, earth wielding, Garrick head, distance wielding. I think distance wielding is way more powerful than wind wielding.

59:41 Obviously Zaden head the intensic thing and. Actually, you bring up a great point. Should we just talk about that for a second? If you have a second signet because your dragon was bonded to a relative, I kind of assumed that you don't control the order in which you manifest. And so these second signets are just the ones that people chose to hide, right?

1:00:01 I think that's how I read it. Well, yeah, so it could be one of two things, right? Like the second signet could be the second signet that manifested, so you didn't want to show it. But it also seems like it's always the more powerful signet, right? And we know these are marked riders. Well, we think that it's only marked riders that have second signets. So wouldn't they want to hide their more powerful signets? Because we know they're actually secretly planning another revolution?

1:00:25 But. You were going somewhere with fun. Well, the pattern, the pattern seems to be that the second signet is more powerful than the first segment. And again, like, I don't know, thinking about Bodhi and what you were saying, like what's his greatest need? Sloane has 2 great needs. I think, one, she really doesn't want to hurt people.

1:00:44 Like, she killed Lilla. She felt really terrible about that. She wants to use her powers for good, and she desperately misses her dead brother. Right. So I'm like, OK, we've talked about the resurrection signet and how no one has ever had it. Is Sloane going to be the one who ends up having it? Having it? Not that I think she'll bring back Liam, but like, is it going to be something, something along those lines where, like, she can talk to the dead or she can bring back the dead? But we already had Violet talking to Liam, so I don't know about that.

1:01:11 Yeah. I think we have like fundamentally different views on what like a resurrector signet is like. I just think it's an extension of mending. But it would be super interesting if she had the ability to like communicate beyond realms, right? Basically, right. I don't necessarily think it's a full resurrector, but she's like, I don't know, she really wants to help people, right?

1:01:35 So she says, I just want to help in a way that doesn't suck the magic out of something. Her signet can help, right? That's what we find out at the end of Onyx Storm. But if she manifested another one, would it be something that just solely helps people? And I think obviously resurrection would help. I'm not saying I think Sloan is a resurrector necessarily, just saying I think it's going to be something in that direction where it's she wants to help people and she misses her brother.

1:02:01 Yeah. Well, and how interesting would it be if her second segment that she manifested was mending? Because then she would have the ability to siphon power off of other sources and mend. Yeah, I mean, mending, Yeah, mending came to mind too. It just didn't seem like it was necessarily more powerful than siphoning.

1:02:17 But yeah, I mean, yeah, holy crap. Like, then she is a resurrector, right? Then there is no limit basically. Yeah. Anything else on secret segment I don't know that we haven't already talked about I. Don't think so. We covered most of it in the first one. Yeah, that's it. All right. OK, great.

1:02:32 So that was a quick one. All right. What is going on with Dane and his power? What is going on with Dane? Yeah, so we definitely have more questions than answers. Yeah, I don't have an answer here. Sorry guys. It's so crazy that, like, kudos to Rebecca for this. Like, Dane has been presented as such a familiar character to us that we're all just like, Oh, yeah.

1:02:54 Dane. Like we you know, Dane, we love Dane. Dane's dad was like, Violet's mom's right hand. When I think about basically anything else related to Dane, I'm like, I don't know anything about Dane, actually. Like, we don't know who Dane's mom is. We don't know who his dad's dragon is. We don't know what his dad's signet is. We don't even know his dad's first name. Like, we know so little about the rest of Dane. OK, I took a few notes about things that I just thought were interesting.

1:03:21 I will disclaim here. Like, I don't have answers. Right. Like as to why Dane has so much power, and in case people don't understand why we're saying this, like basically when Dane is helping provide power to help Brennan heal Mira, he's doing this through Sloan as a siphon. Sloan looks at him and says Someone Like You should not have that much power. And that's not really news to us because he has said in the past that half channels a significant amount of power. So we knew that Dane was powerful, but it was really thrown in our face and Onyx Storm, we were like, why is Sloan thrown off by this?

1:03:59 Like this is weird. And if you think about it, the last person that Sloan touched like this was Lilith, who was incredibly powerful, incredibly so. Why is she thrown off by Dane having so much? Power 100 percent, 100%. Don't have a great answer but have thoughts. OK, the one first thought I had, we've already discussed in a prior episode.

1:04:21 Go listen to our event an episode if you haven't. We think that Colonel Atos is Venom. He's definitely a Venom sympathizer. We think he's probably Venom. We've also talked about the throwaway line that the ear. I'd say maybe their offspring could evolve. Could Dane be Venom offspring as well? It's set up nicely right in that Dane is basically bred to be Violet's spare in a lot of ways.

1:04:45 Like raised by Asher alongside Violet. He's taught the same things. Like it's clear even when they go to visit Narelle that has been set up to be like kind of a Hail Mary. If Violet fails can Dane succeed type thing? Or if Violet needs support like can Dane be it? Like Asher was almost spreading his odds of success between Violet and Dane.

1:05:10 Could he be then in offspring? Could that explain the amount of power that he has? I don't know one thought another thought that I had. This is an odd 1. So Dane's dragon is Cath right? Cath means means battle. Signet has like, arguing nothing to do with battle. Yeah. So like, that just doesn't make any sense. Is Dane signet something that we don't understand? We also learn that Kath's breath smells horrible. And so I'm wondering when I think about, like, why someone's breath smells horrible.

1:05:38 Could Kath be very old? And could the amount of power that a dragon channels be related to the age of a dragon? And I'm thinking about Terran. Yeah. And our hypothesis that he's much older than he says he is. I definitely think that might be, yeah, I definitely think that might be the case. That calf is low key a very powerful dragon. But like you would think in my mind that Taran would kind of bring that up more.

1:06:04 Like does Taran ever talk about calf? I don't think so. No, but calf is in a surprising amount of scenarios, yeah. Like the only person that Calf falls second to is Taran in a lot of cases when they're lining up and Taran is like, like shoving Cath out of the way. And it could just be because, like, Dana's the wing leader, right? Yeah, but this is a good point because he is also squad leader as a second year, which Violet says is, like, really unusual. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:06:34 And now we know it's really the Dragons. It's really more about the Dragons rather than the riders, right? Like Violet's always going to be at the front because Taran is. Taran is Taran, yeah. Yeah. And that would that would be interesting too, right? Because now we've talked about the possibility of Zaid and Violet and Dane all being offspring of venom, potentially. Potentially.

1:06:55 Which is interesting because we talked about their path, her paths, and like how Zaidan and Dane represent different paths. We also have three brothers in the origin story and now we have 3 writers who are potentially Venom offspring. Yeah, not that I have follow up thoughts on that, but I think that's interesting too. Yeah, I mean, right.

1:07:13 So the question is, is Papa Atos Avenin? If he is, when did he become Avenin? I mean, he is like he is in my mind. When did he become Avenin? Was that before Dane was born? And therefore Dane is Avenin offspring? And who the fuck is Dane's mom? Who is Dane's mom? Yeah, don't know. And I think when I was thinking about like the the concept of venom offspring in general, I kind of have convinced myself with no good reasons, as most of my theories are, I've convinced myself that the dad has to be the venom, OK, The mom needs to be alive.

1:07:52 If you're venom and you're, you have like a womb with a fetus in it and you're carrying life. Like what kind of impact would channeling have for these kids to come out human, right? Like which they did like Violet Dane, if you believe that they're venom offspring, they came out presenting as not venom. Whereas if the mother had channeled while they were in there, like what they would they have come out as like they're effectively tied to them.

1:08:17 So that's like all I have to go off of, honestly, is could he be the child of the venom? Could there be something up with Kath that we don't know about? Because we know that Kath's breath smells really bad and that's the first time we've ever heard of it. Maybe it was Rebecca just being funny. Maybe there's meaning?

1:08:33 Yeah, I have two additional thoughts. I think that could be one of them for sure. And I, and I'm going to credit that I saw this on Reddit, but in Iron Flame, we know that Dane is being trained by Varish to strengthen his signet. And we also know that Papa Ito's showed Dane where the ward stone was, right?

1:08:56 So the question is, was Dane actually the one who was supposed to take down the ward stone? Like, was Papa Ito's like kind of waiting for Dean to do it or waiting for Dean him Dean to be kind of like brought in to this Vennon enclave? And were they somehow imbuing him with enough power to take down the Ward stone without Dane knowing it? Obviously.

1:09:20 Why would they need to imbue him with power if they think he's going to turn? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. But basically, like the plan went to shit when Dane left with them Satan and Violet, obviously. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. It was very somehow doing something to him that would make him more powerful. I don't really think that's that. I don't really buy that one.

1:09:40 But that is 1 possible theory. What what Sloan says to him when she imbues from him the quote is Sloan wraps her fingers around dangerous. Her eyes flares and she swallows. Someone Like You shouldn't have this much power, right? That's what she says. Someone Like You, not you shouldn't have this much power.

1:09:58 Not no one should have this much power. Someone Like You shouldn't have this much power, which led me to believe what she means. There is someone without a second signet, so not a marked one should have this much power. So I'm also wondering if Dane might have a secret second segment because we have no idea who his mother is right?

1:10:18 And you just mentioned that Kath might be way older. It's possible the reason why that wouldn't work is because when he sees Garrick distance wield and when he sees Imogen earth wield, he's like what the actual fuck is going on right now right? I don't know. I would think like if he has a second signet, then he would realize that maybe other people have second signets too.

1:10:36 And I would think that Zaden would know if he has a second signet. But that's just kind of my thinking. Maybe he has a second. Signet my only counter to that, and it's not a big deal. I think that it's really improbable that Zaden can read Dane at all, because Dane has been trained in mind work behind the scenes this entire time. Like I think that's a good point. Dane's Shields are probably like even better than Violets. But we know that he can read Dane enough to trust him and to bring him to Orisha.

1:11:04 Well, he. Says that calf vouches for him. I mean he says he vouches for him too, but his specific point in Orisha was that the Dragons vouch for Atos. No, I think he said something like, that's how I knew I could trust Atos. It's when they're talking about the second segment. Hold on. Zayden says I've already questioned the scribes, they can be trusted and Calf vouches for Atos.

1:11:25 I believe you that when he's talking to Violet about his second segment, he says something about being able to trust, but I don't remember that specifically. Right. And then my last theory is the slap that Dane receives on the island of Zahelna from Zenal. And just wondering, like did that slap somehow imbue him with some power from from Zenal himself?

1:11:49 Is he now kind of touched by Zenal the way that Violet has been touched by? Those are kind of the three paths I went down. Interesting. Yeah, one, I agree with you that at this point I'm feeling like it's probable that either Dane Signet is not at all what it appears to be, or he has another one mostly because of his Dragon's name. Honestly, I also think it would be fun if Dane's power strengthened into full retro cognition because he mentions that as he's learning in fourth wing, he says I need to be close to calf in order for it to it to work well. And we know that signets strengthen over time. And so could this eventually just morph into he doesn't need to touch anybody?

1:12:30 Right. Why does Dane have to touch people? No one else has to touch it? Like Zayden doesn't have to touch someone to read their minds. Like is this just a lie he's been told? Or just a lie that Dane is made-up. It's the reason that he's allowed to live is because it's controlled through. Like he says that the very beginning when he's first telling Violet about his signet. He says it's not like regular intensics, like I have to touch them.

1:12:53 So is Dane lying or is that just not? I mean I don't buy that for a second. I think the reason that he was allowed to live was because his father saw how powerful his signet could be and said I need him alive to be on my side. Like I don't but I don't think. I don't think Dane was ever in danger of dying over his intended cygnet, with his father being who he is.

1:13:12 Yeah, maybe. Yeah, it's a it's a good question. I definitely think we'll get to the point where Dane doesn't have to touch someone to read their memories. Yeah. Yep. What are the limits of Cygnus? OK, How did you answer this question? So I basically created a framework and not much more than that and I was hoping we could just riff off of that framework.

1:13:27 OK. Because I kind of went this one, I kind of went through signet by signet and was like, OK, what is the absolute limit of each of these? Limit of each signet. Yeah, okay, then maybe I'll start with the framework and then we should just go into each one. Okay, because I have some fun mode theories on these. Obviously the limits of signets are flexible, but I think they're dependent on three primary things. One, the writers own understanding of how their signet works.

1:13:50 Like what if you believe in yourself you can do? No like how the power works. So like until Violet realized that she is pulling power from the sky she was just like striking Willy nilly and now she can aim. Like no one ever told her until she was working with Felix that she could even aim right. So like the riders understanding of how their cygnets work to the riders ability to throttle and control the power. So like it said a bunch of times in fourth wing, like if you don't learn to control your signet, if you can't control the amount of power that's channeling from your dragon through you and manifesting into something, you'll flame out. And so the ability to control the power allows also seems to allow you to be more precise.

1:14:36 And again, like not to use Violet as another example, but like she can cause massive strikes of lightning that take down a mountain. She would probably be better served by creating smaller strikes of lightning that hit specific things and people and even come out of her hands rather than down from the sky in some cases.

1:14:56 And then three. The third piece of the framework is the amount and type of power available to power the signet. So. So yeah, like the dragon, basically. The dragon versus the source versus whatever. So with that in mind, what are your theories about the limits of everyone's signet? So we've talked about Violet a lot, but I think that it's a fun thought exercise to think about how far these could go.

1:15:19 So like you just mentioned with the lightning wielding, is she basically just going to be able to like take out all the Wyvern? Like why not? Why wouldn't she be able to just hit every single Wyvern because of the dragon scale armor? Yeah, yeah. And if it's if what she's attracted to is the Wyvern, then why not just branch it into every single Wyvern she hits? This doesn't necessarily help for Venom, but yeah, like, I don't see why we can't get to the point where she can just take out an entire riot for that matter. Dragons if if it comes to it.

1:15:49 But yeah, because we know Terence says a bolt of lightning would just as easily kill us, right? We don't. I don't know if her magic is attracted to Dragons the way it's attracted to Wyburn, but just riffing here. But yeah, I think she can basically get to the point where she can take out a whole riot at once. Dream walking.

1:16:06 We've talked about this, right? But basically, I think there is no limit on this signet. Like, I think she could literally create realities for people while they're awake. I think she can absolutely kill people in dreams, right? We know she creates the knife. We know that Berwyn's power works in dreams. So we can assume that Violet's power will also work in dreams or in whatever terror she can create for people in their minds, right?

1:16:33 Like this is fucking terrifying. This is fucking. Terrifying. Like, I have this vision at like the end of this series, and I don't think nothing I ever say out loud gets written right. But I have this vision where they're in like this massive battle and Violet has the entire opposing army, like on their knees, basically thinking that they're dying. And she just pulls lightning from the sky and strikes all of them.

1:16:56 Rebecca has said that there have to be limits on it, like she doesn't like, like unchecked power. So certainly there will be. Maybe it is only when people are sleeping, you know, But even that even that like when you really think about it, like she can hold someone in a nightmare. That's what Berwyn does, right? Like Ken Berwyn stop people from waking up. I mean, we have that theory that maybe that's what he did with Astra.

1:17:19 But like, can can he hold people in dreams? Like can he hold them there forever basically? And basically just they never wake up. Like, that's kind of terrifying. Yeah. All right, so that's what I had for Violet. Any more thoughts on that one? All right, Zaden, with the shadow wielding, I think we kind of start to see this in Onyx Storm. There's an epigraph in Iron Flame. This guy's theory is that it was super dark, and the venom could see in the dark.

1:17:45 My theory is that this venom was actually a shadow wielder and could literally hide himself in the dark. Right. And we start to see that at the beginning of Onyx Storm, because basically when Violet is following Zaden down to the dungeon to see Jack, it's just a shadow moving, right? Yeah. So like we. Also see it at the end of Onyx Storm, and I know that's an entirely separate episode, but there is a distinct mention of shadows in the room.

1:18:10 Fascinating. Oh my God, I didn't even know that. I'd love it. Right. And that's basically the invisibility signet that we were talking about with Bodhi, right? Like that's crazy powerful. In the dark I would I would argue that probably harder to do during the day for sure at night. Right intention reading he specifically says I, I don't, I don't know about the like growth of this. Maybe he can become fully intensive. But there's a moment where he specifically says when him and Violet are talking about her dream rocking ability and why she developed it like because she wanted to get in Darna's mind.

1:18:42 And in Darna's mind, he specifically says that he can't read Dragons intentions right. So he's like, maybe you can't either. However, and again, this could just be a Rebecca oopsie in fourth wing, Terence says is don't try to read me human right now. This kind of doesn't work because we know that Taryn is incensed when he finds out about Zadan second signet.

1:19:05 But it's also a crazy thing to write if Taryn a doesn't already know about it and B doesn't know that that Zadan can try and read him. And that also might mean that Violet can also walk into Dragon's minds, which she kind of does sometimes already with Taryn, right? But maybe any Dragon's minds. So that's my thought on our big 2. The next one I had was summoning with Rhiannon, which we've kind of talked about, but I definitely think we're going to get to the point where Rhiannon can just summon organs from bodies, right?

1:19:32 Just ripping hearts out right and left. Why not? Yeah, definitely. It's interesting because I think about past events that have already happened in this book where I'm like, wow, it would have been great if we could summon through walls at that time. Like when they go into the archives and need to get all of these texts.

1:19:49 Like, I don't know whether those types of situations are going to present themselves again, but like if Rihanna knows the coordinates of what she's looking for or like generally what to be summoning, Like I don't think there's anything that we can't get at this point in terms of knowledge. Right, right. So like, how far away does something have to be right? So like if we're if we have a text in Deverelli that we need, can Rihanna just summon it?

1:20:14 Like, yeah, I also think you mentioned Deverelli. So we know that King Cortland. Is that his name? Yeah. Cortland. Yeah. Collects a bunch of, like, powerful magical artifacts and things like that. And like Holden's, I forget what they called her. She was effectively A bodyguard, was trying to steal a bunch of them and then got beheaded. Right.

1:20:33 Unfortunate. I just predict based on the Rebeccas writing style so far, we will have to go and get things and now we have somebody who can summon through walls. We could end up in Deverelli needing to take things from Courtlands election and we can just do that now it gets. Important, too. This is totally just my nerd breed working, right. But Rhiannon's ability is not Akea, right? It's not something flying through the air. Yeah.

1:20:59 No, it's transporting. It disappears and reappears. Yeah. Crazy. She is manipulating space-time much. Like she creates a wormhole. It's actually very similar to Garrick's segment at the end of the day. Although I would argue like Garrick's signet is more physical and that at least you have wind upon disappearing.

1:21:17 Yeah, like, I don't know that you have that necessarily with summoning. Like Garrick saying that we know that he is physically moving through space and time. Like with summoning, I don't know what's going on because you just went through a wall. How did that work? Yeah. And it's, it's an interesting thought. Could she get things that are heavily protected with wards? I don't know.

1:21:36 Maybe Rebecca is really pushing on us that Rhiannon is like incredibly powerful. And I don't think we've seen enough of that yet. But I look forward to the delivery on that promise, Rebecca. Yeah. All right, so my next one was Sawyer, and I had one thought on Sawyer. We find out so Sawyer's obviously Cigna is metallurgy.

1:21:55 We find out that the dragon eggs are made of metal, as is everything else in the alloy. Can Sawyer create the alloy without a luminary is where my mind's going, which I think, I think yes, I think that's where we're going. Riddick, we talked about this with ice wielding. Yeah. I mean, he can basically right now he can freeze AY burn to death, right.

1:22:15 But are we going to get to the point where he can freeze like a larger area of people to death? I don't know, maybe Imogen, we talked a little bit about, I mean, the memory erasing is terrifying. Can she get to the point where she can just completely erase someone's memory forever? That would be pretty scary. And then the Earth wielding, which we mentioned earlier, is she going to have the capability to kind of mend the Earth like the Barons like we've talked about? Yeah.

1:22:40 Which I also think is interesting because we know that the runes professor in Orisha is an agrarian and we don't we don't get any follow up on that. But I'm curious about the difference between earth wielding and agrarian. Maybe agrarians can just kind of make things grow and earth. Wielders can actually. Yeah, can actually.

1:22:57 Turn things into like, make things grow in the exact way that they, yeah, want them to grow type of thing, yeah. Garrick with the distance wielding, we've already kind of talked about this. I don't really see how much farther we can take this signet, but the fact that he can carry a dragon up a Cliff is just insane to me.

1:23:17 That's incredible power. I just don't see how distance wielding can get any more dramatic than it already is. Like right, where are you? What else are you going to do? You're already walking the continent in like a second. I mean, if he can walk across water and get to the aisles, right? Yeah. Like I think he can. There's nothing that has led me to believe that he can't do that.

1:23:36 Yeah, I mean, if you're moving at that speed, like, you can't walk on water. The only thing that sparked interest for me, and you brought this up really early on, is Quinn's signet. Mostly. I know she's dead, but like, that signet we now know exists, astral projection is a crazy signet. So, like, how long can you keep these up for?

1:23:55 Can they do things like what? I think this raises a really good question. Can we not trust actually anything because Quinn could? Astral project as other people. Yeah, right. So like I think I texted you that I was like holy shit, she can project other people, right? That was like scene. Right.

1:24:14 Oh, OK, so like, let's let's just talk about this theory that Bodie was invisible, right? We know that kind of doesn't work and that maybe he was secretly on the Quest squad, right? I'm not saying I believe this. I'm just talking through a hypothetical scenario where that couldn't work because we know that Bodie is also, is he wing leader? Yeah, Bodie's wing leader.

1:24:33 And like, he can't be gone for that long without people noticing, right? So if Bodie was secretly on Quest Squad for I think they were gone for a month, wouldn't people have noticed? Not if Quinn is astral projecting as Bodie, right? Like, not if she's walking around as Bodie, making people believe that Bodie is there while she's also there, by the way.

1:24:51 Yeah, right. So I'm not saying that happened. I'm just thinking through how it could work. If anybody else has this signet, now that we know it exists, like what possibilities does that open? Like if somebody in leadership has this signet, like, who else is is walking around? What happens if, like, can you basically fake a death? Yeah.

1:25:12 Can you touch them? Like, are they actually just productions or like, can you touch them? Can you have a conversation with them? Like I know she. Yeah, I it's, it's a crazy signet that we have not talked about enough. And now that she's dead, are we going to get another one? Or is it just that there is someone on the Venom side who can do this? In which case we can't really trust anyone or anything that we've talked about.

1:25:32 Yeah. Yeah, and they even say that, right? Like in when they're at that outpost, I can't. What's the outpost that they go to because they win? Montserrat. Montserrat. Thank you. They asked when they're like, can you astral project from the back of your dragon? She's like, yeah, no problem. And someone, I think one of the lieutenants is like, that's insane. That's crazy.

1:25:55 It was so underrated. No one paid attention to it. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy, crazy, crazy. I'm trying to think whether, whether there were any others. I mean, the only question that I had with air wielding, because we saw how powerful tornadoes were when theophany like basically dragged up the entire like Tearn and like everyone into a tornado, like Tearn into a tornado like the largest dragon on the continent, allegedly.

1:26:22 Like can air wielders do that as well? Or is that something that you're limited to storm wielders only? I. Don't know, Imagine air wielders can. In which case, like Garrick's got a lot of power. Garrick's very powerful. All right, which six signets might be the six most powerful? So in case you guys don't know what we're talking about, the epigraphas the rarest of signets, those that rise once in a generation or century, have manifested concurrently with an equal twice in our records, both critical times in our history, but only once have the six most powerful walk the continent simultaneously. As fascinating as that spectacle must have been, I would rather not live to see it again.

1:27:02 So the idea of being that there are 6 most powerful signets, they did walk the continent at one time, we don't know, probably during the Great War, and now there seemed to be a handful of once in a century signets that are manifesting once again. Yeah. So the way that I answered this question was started with the ones that I view as close to confirmed as we can, which are the ones that have mentioned being once in a century.

1:27:27 Then talk about the common signets and then just talk about like what I actually think based on what we have available to us. So signets that we have found mentioned as occurring quote once in a century or in a century or in more than a century. The first, interestingly, I think, is summoning. I know, I know, not what I would have thought, but. Yeah, exactly, Violet says.

1:27:49 I haven't read about a signet power like that in a century. It's a hell of a signet when Rhiannon tells her that she can summon. So that's interesting. We also did just talk about how powerful that signet could actually be, but it just doesn't feel, I don't know, it doesn't feel powerful enough. And Will Rhiannon has not been set up in the limelight in these books.

1:28:10 She's honestly been left behind on almost everything. Yeah, I hope we get more. The Fort, So we've not really seen much of her in battle except for in the final battle, which we weirdly got her POV in. Rebecca is definitely like, Rhiannon is important when Violet's like she's the best of us. And then it just cuts to Rihanna, which felt very forced, I'm not gonna lie.

1:28:31 Can I tell you something hilarious so you know this? I went through these books and I like underlined highlighted post it noted right? I like read them with a fine tooth comb. I have nothing for the Rihanna chapter. I have nothing underlined. I have nothing highlighted. I'm just like, OK, this happened. Great.

1:28:50 Yeah, I learned that I kind of like her dragon. Like that's what I learned. It is interesting getting POV's from other Dragons. I did enjoy that. The next one that we hear about being uncommon is lightning wielding, Dane says. I don't think there's been a lightning wielder in more than a century to Violet when finds out that. Refreshing.

1:29:10 After she kills Jack Bartlow. Right. Sorry. Yes, obviously. And then the third, I only logged 3. I'm curious whether you have more is distance wielding. When Zaden says the quote that you mentioned earlier, there hasn't been a distance wielder in centuries. And don't you think if I was one, I would have spent every night in your bed? And that's Iron Flame Chapter 56. So I view these as based on that epigraph Confirmed. Ish.

1:29:31 Yeah. But then when we think about like all the things that have been made available to us so far, I obviously have other thoughts on. So there's one more that I think fits into this pattern and it is Imogen Earth wielding because at one point Sawyer says this is when they're trying to recruit him to come with them to the Ward stone to like wield on the Ward stone.

1:29:51 He says you're fucked because I can't think of a single rock or earth wielder in our history. And then of course, at the end of Onyx Storm, Imogen turns out to be an Earth wielder. So that is even like there has never been an Earth. Wielder, we don't even know that there is, right? Right. Which might almost take her out of being the six most powerful signets if there's never been one before. But I I wouldn't say that.

1:30:13 Wouldn't you also expect this is what frustrates me about this book? Like I would expect that we know what the six most powerful are that are being referenced in this text. Like if Major Dalton Cisneros is writing this book A study on signets and references 6 most powerful walking the continent simultaneously, don't you think that the six are in that book that he's talking about I.

1:30:36 Think Major Dalton Cisneros knows what the six. Are and probably wrote them down. Annoying. The six then, might not be be the 6th now, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I certainly hope not based on everything that we've. Been presented with, yeah. So then we have this passage from 4th Wing that basically is kind of a throwaway.

1:30:55 Violet just like doing more of informing us as she often does, and it's I think the only place where we learn about signets being common without having to infer ourselves. She says some riders have the same signets. Fire wielding, ice wielding, and water wielding are just a few of the most common signet powers, all useful in battle.

1:31:13 And then she says. Then there are signets that make a rider extraordinary. My mother can wield the power of storms. Melgren can see the outcome of battles. I can't help but wonder what Zayden's signet is. To me, that also puts those three in the running for most powerful. Yeah, but then I would argue, and I have him on my list, but I would argue that Eric blows Melgren out of the water on that one totally. Yeah, totally.

1:31:34 Yeah, So fire wielding, ice wielding, water wielding common, not important. Sorry, Riddick. Yeah, love you, but no. Isn't it interesting that ice and water are different signets so I can't? I can't wrap my mind around it. Honestly you're the same element pisses me off. OK any other thoughts on like confirmed ones? Because then it's just my list of like what I think and that is.

1:31:55 No, no, I have my I have my conjecture ones too, but I think those four were safe saying are confirmed. Yeah, maybe, though I just Rhiannon like I don't know, but maybe, yeah. So I mean, I really go back and forth on the shadow wielding. I really go back and forth because the quote, there's a quote in Onyx Storm where Amatario is talking to them. It's at the end of that fight in the courtyard where they're about to all fight each other.

1:32:24 The Flyers and the Arishan Riot and the best guy Riot are all about to fight each other. And then the professor show up and they're like, we die now. Riders are like, we die now or we die later. What's the what's the difference? And Amatario says, die now. And the scribes will call your name in the morning.

1:32:39 Choose to fight your common enemy and there's a chance you'll live to graduate. Personally, I like our odds. The last time a shadow and lightning wielder fought side by side, they managed to drive the Venom back into the Barons for a few 100 years. We'll figure out how to do it again. And then Violet says I fumble the conduit and nearly drop it. Zayden and I are the first of our signets to live simultaneously since the Great War. So that makes me think that lightning wielding and shadow wielding are shoe insurance here for the most powerful signets. And Violet says to Zayden, you're our generations shadow wielder, right?

1:33:09 So there's really it's a once in a generation signet. And that also pairs back to the original epigraph, which says the rarest of signets have manifested concurrently with an equal twice in our records. And I assume that manifesting concurrently, that was one of those times, right? Yeah. Twice in our records.

1:33:27 All right, we'll get into it in our history episode. Yeah. There's another, but I don't think it has to be that combination. It just has to be two of the six manifesting concurrently twice in our records. All right, so now I have summoning, lightning wielding, shadow wielding, distance wielding, earth wielding, and precog I guess.

1:33:45 So I'm at six. Say them again because I I have to compare to mine. Summoning, lightning wielding, shadow wielding, distance wielding, earth wielding and precog. So I am at my 6:00 however. Nord summoning. I just didn't even. Right. It is hard for me to see how mind walking cannot be in there unless unless there was a mind Walker and they didn't know. But like it is hard for me to see how mind walking cannot be one of these most powerful sickness. Maybe it doesn't count because one person has 2. So maybe like it's a, it's a oops, oopsie. But like maybe there's six riders instead of 6 sickness is what I'm saying.

1:34:23 Basically it's hard for me to see to see how mind walking can't be in there. Yeah. So I have 7, but those are my. Those are my. Yeah, OK. I also, I actually have 8:00 because I have two honorable mention. But like I think I agree with like we have the ones that we've been told, right? So it's hard to argue with those, even though I want to argue with them because I feel like the riders that are wielding some of them are not particularly powerful in it yet or just haven't demonstrated the power of that signet, right. But I do think shadow wielding is 100% one of them when you think about that signet.

1:34:58 I know I said this at the start of the episode, but they are sneaky important. They do so much. They're almost like astral projection. They just can't present as another human being, but they operate as like a physical extension of the rider and when it's dark out like. Can I just tell you my like my sneaky hope for this next book is that Violet basically fucks a shadow version of Satan. Like he just creates a shadow version of anyway. I mean, I definitely like his Shadows could do things to her. We're definitely.

1:35:29 Getting into that, like it, yeah, like, yeah, they're playing a part and yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, yes, no, but that's what I'm saying. It's basically astral projection. Why not just create a shadow version of Zeta? Right, exactly. Yeah, agree. I also had precognition, but I had Eric as that signet.

1:35:47 I think for obviously incredibly powerful to note the events of the future weather manipulation. I chose to generalize it to weather manipulation because I know we have lightning, but like Violet calls out Lilith, right? Like I think because this is one of the only signets in multiple ways, right?

1:36:05 Both in terms of the storms that the often has created and the lightning the Violet is wielded. I think it's one of the only signets we've heard of that can take down dragon crazy. But we don't have one on either side right now. So you think there has to be a new one? Well, I think lightning qualifies.

1:36:21 OK, OK, yeah. Weather manipulation, like whatever. I think that that all fits Distance wielding, which we've been told about and earth wielding, which we've been told about. I think that's. What were your honorable mentions? Hold on, that's five. What was the one I missed? Oh, summoning, But like, I don't summoning is the 6th confirm, but like, I don't my honorable mentions were whatever. Pilot's second segment is number 1. So like mind work, basically.

1:36:51 And then my other one was retrocognition. Yeah. I don't think it's the most powerful necessarily, but I think in terms of the context of what we're dealing with in this series, seeing the past, which I'm interpreting as seeing the truth of prior events, is super important in a plot where history has been so heavily edited. Right.

1:37:14 Like we don't know shit about oh shit, what has happened, yeah. Or like what started the rebellion or what started the Great War. Like, I'm not saying that we're going to get those out of Dane Reading memories, but I think retrocognition in general is super important. So I think there's another way to look at this too, which is kind of interesting, which is instead of saying, OK, these are the six most powerful signets, If you think about it, the way at the end of Iron Flame, the way that they thought it was the six most powerful riders bleeding on the stone, but then it turned into the six most powerful Dragons.

1:37:48 Yeah, Right. So if we look at this in terms of like the most powerful signet aligned to the colors of each dragon, right. So for black, I think it's obviously Violet. It's not Mel Grin. So we have lightning Wheeling with Terran, right? Yeah. Blue is actually, I think Malvik and Eric with precognition and not Segal.

1:38:07 Well, and anyways, Aiden Savannah now, so sorry, green, we have some interesting options. So we have furge with Rhiannon for summoning. We have, I've, I've said, I've been saying Tain, but you've been saying Tane, Tina, Tina. Yeah, it's probably Tina with Mira for Ward Weaving and then we have Kier with Bodie and Signet countering I think is very powerful.

1:38:31 Like I would actually put that at possibly the most powerful of the green Dragons. So that I think is another option here. Orange, I'm going with Imogen and either memory racing or earth wielding would probably earth wielding. Bodie as a venom would be really bad. OK, I think you mean Bodie as a venom will be really. We're not there.

1:38:52 We're not there yet. All right, Red, we have two options. We have Thornt with Sloan as a siphon and we have Kath with Dean with retrocognition. I agree with you that I think, I think Dane is more powerful there. I think the retrocognition thing is more powerful. And then Brown, we have Trad with Gary. We're distance wielding.

1:39:11 How do you fucking say that Dragon's name? Tragic. Sounds wrong. I don't know. Yeah. I if you choose to take the chapter as a hard crap. You think it could be Crad? It's probably like tradra or something. I mean, it's Gaelic. So, I mean, the only ones there that I think are potentially different are Bodie and Dane, but we talked about those.

1:39:33 I mean, yeah, Bodie signet is crazy. Yeah. All right. Anymore on deep dives? No. All right, precod corner time. You ready? You want to go first? You want me to go first? Can you go first because I'm nervous that one of mine is too close to yours. I have three options because I knew that I was going to talk through at least.

1:39:51 All right. As I mentioned, mine kind of started as a correction from last week and corrections not the right word. I just, you brought up something and I really had to think more about it. And what you brought up was the Dragons potentially lying about what signets are. So I was like, hold on, wait a second. What are signets anyway, right.

1:40:10 And the quote. That well, I'll just tell you what the book tells us what signets are so a signet is a combination of your Dragon's power with your own ability to channel it reflects who you are at the very core of your being right so that's what we're told from the books that signets are However, when we meet the ear it's and this was the quote that you brought up right what they say is that the Dragons gifted the humans with their power So what they say is dragon kind what? Except for about Terran.

1:40:39 Well right so dragon kind has not learned their lesson either. While you, the male in the centers gaze jumps to Atrium, gifted your human with ice, he dares to shift his focus to Taran. You armed yours with lightning right? And what? And Dharna says to Violet is I gave my gift directly to you because I'm still a feather tail, right?

1:40:59 That's what she says about when she can stop time. So in both cases the word gift here is used. So what you concluded, and I don't necessarily think you're wrong, I just am looking at this as a slightly different way, is that the Dragons are lying about signets. What I think is that the Dragons are not lying about signets, but Irids misunderstand signets as gifts of power and that irids actually have the ability to gift their riders power, right?

1:41:26 And I know there's been chatter about this online too, that what Antarna actually did was give Violet the ability to stop time forever. Even though Antarna doesn't have that power anymore, Violet still might have that ability, right? So there's this site and and there's a couple of places where this happens where Violet talks about time slowing down.

1:41:46 First one is when. Well, this isn't the first one, but one of them is when Traeger gets shot with the arrow. So the text says. Traeger staggers backward. Time slows to a crawl as he turns towards us with three fumbling footsteps. His gaze lurches for Cat and then he falls to his knees in space.

1:42:01 Right. So time slows to a crawl when she's in cordon fighting the venom and one of them is about to channel. She says. Time slows to sluggish heartbeats as I watch him reach reach for the ground and then in iron flame when they're testing, when they go to the edge of the wards to see if the new wards will work, it's her and Zaden. She says.

1:42:21 Time slows to heart beats, my breath freezing in my heated chest. So we have three times where Violet says time slows down and we have and Dharna saying I have gifted you my ability to stop time and we have the ear. It's saying you gifted your humans this right? So I am not thinking that the Dragons have lied about what signal, I'm thinking the Irids actually can give these powers as gifts and that Violet might still have this ability.

1:42:49 I know that a lot of people have this theory, it's not that crazy. I just am going through and laying out why I think that might have happened. It's interesting, right? Because I don't even know whether we need to limit it to Irids. So I'm going to take your pre card corner theory one step further and you can tell me that I'm crazy, but gifting A signet permanently would never really be detected right outside of what Andarna did. Because feather tales don't bond usually. A great point.

1:43:17 Somebody who has a cygnet from their dragon is bonded to that dragon until that dragon dies. Like there's no world in which a dragon leaves a rider except when they become Venom, and so when Venom turn and retain their cygnets as abilities regardless of the channel of power. You could argue that yes.

1:43:37 Like a dragon gifted that ability and it stayed with them. Yeah, I do think there's a case for it being like a permanent gift that we just never see because they're tied to that one source of power until that source of power dies or they die kind. Of I'm kind of following what you're saying. I see.

1:43:57 I, I thought what you were going to say was, and we kind of know this to be true, right? That all feather tails have this ability to gift? Yes, because we also know that feather tails lose their gifts when they start channeling. Which I think is interesting. Right? Like if they had never channeled, would they still have their gifts? But feather tails lose their gifts when they start channeling.

1:44:17 And that's why Dragons don't let feather tails bond, because they're worried that humans will steal these powers. But do feather tails also have the ability to actually gift these powers instead of them being stolen? Not just irids, like actually all young. Dragons, I think everybody yeah. Interesting.

1:44:34 Yeah OK, that's a good one. OK my pre card corner theory is not that is not that insane. I actually came up with a few because I was so nervous that they were just going to come up in conversation. 2 already did come up right One, is it possible that Violet just like doesn't have a signet? Like Violet does so much out of pocket stuff like she's turning up other signets on them. She's seeing the dead.

1:44:56 She's like dragging Dane into her memories. Like is she just harnessing the power of the gods? Like she she mentions at the end of Onyx storm, right talking to Theophany, you would have had unthinkable power in the temple. Like was that not enough for you? And Theophany was like, why serve a God when you can be 1, which is a different story. But that was one.

1:45:16 The second we already talked about as well, which is mere signet is actually the power of dragon fire. The third is is not anywhere near as crazy, but I still think it's interesting. So we have two known like signet professors in this series so far, right? We have Carr and we have Felix and Carr is viewed as like this.

1:45:36 This bad guy, right, is teaching is mostly about throughput and volume. And so I kind of think he's a terrible signet teacher, honestly, because he just has Violet strike like as many times as she possibly can with brute force and teaches her basically nothing about how to wield, which didn't strike me as that strange, because how would somebody who doesn't have your signet teach me your signet?

1:46:00 Yeah, right. The whole idea is kind of wild. Yeah, until we met Felix, right? And I know I already expressed my belief that maybe Felix has something that allows him to sense signets and how they work and how they should be used. But he is a way better teacher right? Like he tells Violet he expects things of her which makes me think that he knew a lightning wielder in Summer Carter like at least knew how things are supposed to work.

1:46:22 But he was like do you branch from your fingers? Like can you split into multiple branches? Can you aim? Like what do you mean you can't aim? And then talks to her about how her signet actually works? And So what if Carr is intentionally a terrible teacher and can recognize either when a signet is too powerful or whether the rider will like, will or will not aid the Navarian leadership's agenda and basically just coaches these riders into wielding their signet in a format that will probably result in burnout.

1:46:53 And you had mentioned right like Bezgayeth being a venom factory, Like what if car is just training people to use their signets in a way that will probably make them burnout one day You. Know what car's Dragon's name is? Little lies, Car's Dragon's his name is Brugen, which means lies or falsehoods.

1:47:12 Yeah. So I think you are right on the money. I think Carr is actually not really teaching people how to use their signals. Yeah, teaching them to burn out. It's crazy. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. Damn. Yeah, that diet is a terrible school. Yeah. Like Violet learns like basically nothing about how to use her segment while they're, which is really frustrating in my opinion, but also makes perfect sense if they think that she's not going to be loyal to them.

1:47:38 Fun follow up thought that just occurred to me and it doesn't really have to do with cygnets necessarily, but it came to me as I was doing that. Reread for the trivia. Can I run my crazy theory by you? Do you think it is possible that other people are also talking to dead Liam? And I'm going to tell you why I think that when at the beginning of Onyx Storm, when they're visiting Sawyer in the Infirmary, Riddick is talking about quest squad and he's already like I want to go on quest squad. I want to go on quest squad and Rhiannon's like, what are you talking about?

1:48:07 You're not going to go on quest squad. And then he looks right at Violet and he says don't worry, I'll take care of her. Not don't worry, I'll take care of you. Don't worry, I'll take care of her. Which is exactly what Liam told him to do. And we know that Violet has had conversations with dead Liam before.

1:48:25 So I read that line and I was like oh shit, is Riddick also talking? Talking to Liam. So dead, Liam. Yeah. Or Sloane is sending him. Or Sloane is low key a resurrector. I don't know. I don't really think that, but. Yeah, Yeah. Is Liam like Violet's guardian Angel? I don't know. My. God, I think so. That would be sweet, I know.

1:48:44 And it would be nice, too, because it's not like, no offense, Liam, he had like a groundbreaking signet for us. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. That's kind of sad. Yeah. So I don't know. That just kind of made my made my brain tingle to use words from this book in my scalp tingle. All right, Anyway, remember when we said this was going to be a short?

1:49:01 One, my God, we have to go. All right, guys, we have to go. We have to go live our lives. Thank you for listening. We love you. All right, talk to you all later, do. The closeout no with the socials and everything. Yeah, sorry I'm being so bad at leaving this week. All right, thanks everyone for listening. We're dragging in the details.

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