Onyx Storm: Mailbag #1 - The True Nature of the Wyvern, Breaking Bonds, and The Voice in Violet's Head

0:17 What is the I wish I had one. I'm going to get one of those video things. Oh, the clap the movie is like, but I think that's supposed to be when we cut, right? No, it's the start. What is the start? Because I say action. I might invest. Hello everyone, I'm Ronnie. I'm Abby. And this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. Welcome to episode 8:00-ish.

0:43 This season is focused on the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yaros. Disclaimer, These episodes will contain spoilers up through Onyx Storm. If you've not finished Onyx Storm, save this, come back later. Also, due to the contents of the series and who we are as people, this podcast is rated R. Please only listen to it if you're comfortable listening to explicit content or around those who are legally allowed to listen to explicit content. To be fair, to be fair, when we do forget that disclaimer, there is an explicit content button on Spotify and I always say we have.

1:15 So I do the same with with YouTube, like adults only or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, each week we're diving into a specific topic in depth. However, this is a special episode, not this. Week. This is a mailbag episode. These are the questions, the theories and the comments from you guys that really made us think.

1:35 So before we get into it, in case anybody here doesn't know this, we are on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube as Dragons in the details pod is our handle and we get questions and comments from you guys and we love them. And sometimes it's hard to work them into the intros of our other episodes, as as our listeners know, our episodes are pretty long as it is. We.

1:58 Wanted to make, we just came off the back of filming a in total information, two hour 44 minute episode, longer than that by the end. Yeah, an episode dedicated to this. Just you guys, just your comments, just your questions and duking out things that you've asked us to talk about or asked whether we have talked about them. So with that, Abby, you want to lead us off? Sure.

2:22 And I just want to say thank you guys because these are these are great questions. We love questions that make us go back and kind of think. Most of you have provided really good feedback and I really love talking to you guys in the comments. A lot of you DM me on Instagram and it's great and I love it and keep it up.

2:39 We also have an e-mail drives in detailspod@gmail.com. If you're not on social media, that's totally fine. Absolutely respect that choice. You can reach us through that e-mail as well. OK, jealous of you. Yeah, good choices. Social media is probably the most like, not difficult part of a podcast, but I spend so much more time thinking about it than I.

3:01 Have to, yeah. It's tough, but it's fun and I love it. I love connecting with all of you and talking to you guys. It's really great. All right, so with that, the first question I wanted to talk about was from our listener, Claire. I believe that she DM D me actually, I don't know if she's a listener, but she definitely follows us on social media.

3:17 Claire, if you listen to us, thank you. We appreciate you. And basically the gist of her question was how is it possible that the alloy is what's used to kill the venin in the daggers, but it is also used as a source for them. So Jack and Zaden also both drained the alloy are able to pull from the alloy without dying. So do you?

3:37 Do you have any thoughts? It's about that before I dive in. Or do you want me to just kind of dive in with my answer? I feel like we're going to arrive at the same answer, so I'm happy for you to take it. And then I'll just pile on. If I don't agree, I expect to agree. So first again I like to answer questions this way sometimes with like what we know.

3:52 So we know alloys can extend the wards. The thing that powers the ward, the the alloy is what extends the wards. It also kills the vet and which is why there is the whole dispute with Paromia why we won't give them, why we haha why Navarre won't give them alloy hilted daggers? Because the alloy is what extends the wards and it is also what is used in the daggers.

4:14 There is a line in I believe Iron Flame where Violet, it was like, were they always in daggers? Why are they in daggers? And Zadan says, no, the ally wasn't always in daggers. We think that Melgren had a vision where he saw these daggers being important, so they created them. So the daggers are relatively new, but the alloy has existed for a very long time.

4:35 We also know that the alloy is made from an amalgamation. There's that word again. If you listen to our last episode, we love the word amalgamation of talladium, a few other ORS and dragon egg shells, right? And what we know is that Tier and Door basically, as far as I can tell, controls all of the talladium production for Navarre. So they're incredibly important for Navarre. So it's not just that Tier and Door is a huge landmass. They have these cliffs, they're strategically important in war. They also have these talladium mines that makes them extremely important for defending against the venin and dragon shells and violets.

5:08 Like what? What do you mean dragon egg shells? But dragon egg shells are apparently made of metal and also contain magic in them long after the the Dragons have hatched. See that on Deborah Ellie when Violet gives Cortland and Darna's egg shell and she can still feel the magic in it. And we've talked about how when when Dragons hatch, they change the magic in a place. So that's kind of what we know about the alloy. We also know that certain signets can imbue the alloy with Pat, with power.

5:35 Alloy is what's in Violet's conduit. And we know siphons are natural, natural imbuers. Basically, alloy can be imbued with power. That's what powers that, and that power is kind of what extends the words and what kills the venom. We know that the alloy can also be drained by the venom because both Jack and Zaden drain from the alloys.

5:57 So Zaden doesn't endeavor rally when there is no magic. Violet has previously imbued her alloy in her conduit with magic, right? And Zaden is able to drain that magic and use it to create the shadows that kills Cortland's guards. And then Jack Violet is basically using the alloy to keep Jack alive when he's drained all of the power from his cell because she says that the the stone looks like 3 shades lighter everything.

6:23 So the question is basically, how is it possible that the alloys boys both used to kill the venin and also to keep them alive? I don't have necessarily a great answer, right. Like the the magic when it's imbued with magic, they can feed off the magic when it's in dagger form, when they're stabbed, it was kills them.

6:41 My thinking is it has something to do with ruins because there's ruins on all of the daggers and there's ruins on the conduit as well. So my thinking is it's like ruins control how the magic is kind of used because that's basically what it is, right? It's basically like a conduit for magic. However, and I didn't think this question was necessarily that interesting until I read the last chapter of Onyx Storm. This is where I think it's really interesting, and I did not realize this the first time I read it. Berwyn uses 2 alloy hilted daggers to kill a dragon. So it is not just venom.

7:15 These daggers can kill a dragon, which I think opens up a whole fucking can of worms, right? I think this totally changes everything, right? We know that the venom have rooms. So question number one, are these daggers that the venom have created specifically to kill Dragons or are they just your normal run-of-the-mill everyday daggers that everyone in Navarre seems to have now?

7:37 Does that mean like the Dragons are in danger in Navarre or these specifically like outfitted with runes that will kill Dragons? We know that the event have ruins because of the Wyvern, but how are the venom getting power into the alloy, right? Because we know that's what it is. It's that the alloy has to be imbued. Who is imbuing the alloy with power? I don't think that's something venom can just do necessarily, right?

8:03 Because they need their source. They have a source of magic. I don't think that they can imbue alloy with magic, except that we know that there's a theory that Naolan has turned venom and he was a siphon, right? So if Naolan is Vennon, is he out here creating all these alloy daggers to kill Dragons? There's two times I think Vennon have done this, and I don't know that it's because they're Vennon, right? Like I think there's a weird relation between Vennon, ISM and siphoning in that they seem to do really similar things. Yeah.

8:34 Only ever heard about 1 nail and bushing power, and then two Jack Barlow pushing power into Violet. Yeah, interesting. Which? And we don't know Jack's signet, so he could be a siphon too. But yeah, we never found out. Yeah, the idea that now the alloy helted daggers are being used to and what they say is desiccate the Dragons is crazy to me.

8:58 I agree, and I didn't really think about whether they were different daggers, I just assumed that they were different daggers. He. Says so. The exact quote is did you not ask for power? This is what Berwyn says to Pancheck. Berwyn snarls, holding 2 alloy hilted daggers of his own as he approaches Pancheck.

9:16 Have I not provided? Berwyn stabs deep between the dragon scales and it desiccates green, draining from its scales and shrinking in on itself to a husk. Which is not what happens when you stab a Venon, is it? What happens when you they desiccate? Well, theophany desiccated. They did desiccate. Yeah, maybe they do desiccate I. Don't know I mean, that's super interesting. I, I think you had written this question in our other outline and so I started to think about it and I didn't go that far. I think that's super interesting. I think what Claire has done is basically point out, in my opinion, one of the most interesting paradoxes that exist about Vennon, which is they need power and power is the only thing that kills them.

9:53 So like the the role of the alloy, in my opinion, is just a vessel for power. And so in this scene where Claire has the question, Violet is basically just bribing Jack. Like, hey, I've got enough power in this alloy to that you can drain to keep you alive for a week if you tell me what I need to know. But we also know that that same alloy is what is imbued and used in a dagger to actually kill Venin. And so I don't have a great answer for like how that's true, but I think it's known and accepted even without the alloy in play in the form of Violet and just the rest of every everything, right?

10:29 That power is needed by Vennon to stay alive. Like they drain power from other things, but also that pure power is the only thing that kills them. And that's why Violets lightning can kill Vennon. I'm still not totally sold on that one. But yeah, because remember we had that conversation about I think there's other signets that could potentially kill Vennon.

10:47 Sure. But like, power can kill them. Yeah, regardless of whether it's just Violet that can do it or not, power kills Vennon. So it's more about how the Vennon is receiving it than anything else. Yeah, that's what it seems to be in my mind. Like if Violet put that same alloy in a dagger and stabbed Jack, he would die. Yeah, right.

11:06 Yeah. But did Violet can ever learn how to imbue daggers? I always heard, I always like read that it was Zayden that was preparing her weapons. Good point. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And if, if does it matter who is imbuing? No, no, no, because, because they are using. That's what Felix says to her, like or maybe she says at some point, like at least I've gone through like 10 alloy stones this week.

11:29 So I'm contributing to the war effort basically like they are taking those stones and putting them in daggers. Yeah. Thanks for that question, Claire. OK. I just realized you should have gone first because you have three questions. I only have two. We can mix 1 of mine if we want. It's more just discourse.

11:47 OK we received a comment from Nicole on TikTok and I want to start with the context before I read the comment because without it, the comment will be hard to understand by any listeners. So. So in our most recently released episode I believe. Well, what episode was it? It was. The thing we did last, I think, was Lilith and Asher. No, no, it it wasn't on our most recently released episode. Sorry.

12:11 It was on a clip of our Vennon episodes that comes out Monday, Monday, April, which you're listening to this in the future. So it came out exactly OK. We talked about how Violet was protected from Theophanies draining because she climbed on top of a dead Wyvern. So the context Theophanies is, is fighting with Violet and is trying to teach Violet how to block her draining, basically trying to convince her to become Vennon. She says it's simple, actually.

12:39 Occupying ground that has already had its magic repurposed creates a barrier. She lifts her silver brows. The easiest solution is to drain it yourself. Violet then thinks outside the box, as our girl always does, and looks for something. That quote already had its magic repurposed. She jumps on top of a dead Wyvern and quote. The wave of desiccation ripples underneath me and then passes right by on the other side of the wyvern's carcass. I noticed something really interesting when I was rereading this.

13:06 To answer Nicole's question specifically, Violet scrambles to the top of its claw, then races up its scaly leg over its ankle and finds the shredded meat of its thigh. She very specifically gets into the meat of the Wyvern, not just the scales in the claw. Which I want to come back to because what were the Wyvern before they were Wyvern?

13:27 Like? We've not. Han Solo in the Taunton. Yeah, so coming back to that anyways, then Abby talked about whether you could create protected ground by bringing Dragons to hatch on previously drained ground. And we posted that clip. Nicole commented. Would that not be new magic created from the hatchlings? The eggs already have magic and decide where to hatch, making the grounds magic again.

13:53 But they aren't using drain magic, it's new magic. So let's talk about that. Wyvern are described as their magic being repurposed because natural magic in the earth was is drained and then used to create other living things. So the fact that it is secondhand magic is the reason that it's a barrier. But we also know that draining the ground yourself qualifies as the ground having repurposed magic, like that magic that was there has been repurposed.

14:18 So I think your point here, and correct me if I'm wrong, is actually that you can reintroduce magic on ground that's already had its magic repurposed and that barrier might hold. That was that was my thinking, yeah. OK, so even if it's new magic, the magic in the ground has already been taken and repurposed. So the barrier.

14:35 Right, like the source. Magic is gone basically, yeah. And so that is how I understood it. I agree. I don't think that it's, we don't have a like for like example that something has been re imbued and then still held its barrier. But I think that was your point. Yeah, that was my point. Nicole like we think that the barrier is actually related to the fact that that that objects lost its magic.

14:58 Like that magic is gone and it's already been repurposed, and so the new magic couldn't necessarily be drained. But separately from that point, I think we really have to think about how it's possible that one, draining the ground yourself creates A barrier, and two, that Wyvern carcasses also act as a barrier. So we've been told to this point Wyvern are created by Benin, but we never learned how.

15:20 Like we've not seen venin grow something or create something. And so this line of thinking, the fact that the drained ground was a barrier, implies that the Wyvern existed in some format, were drained, and then were ruined and given power to operate under venom control, what with the wiver. OK, wait, So walk, walk me through this.

15:42 I think I'm with you. I just want to be clear. Yeah, so theophony says that draining the ground creates A barrier. Violet gets on top of a Wyvern and that has a barrier, specifically the meat of the. Because it's had its magic repurpose. Because. It was drained at some point and then new magic was put into it. So the two don't, the two aren't exactly the same things if we're just thinking about Wyvern, right, because Wyvern are created from recycled magic.

16:09 So that would imply that the barrier is recycled magic, which doesn't work with the ground. But in Theophany saying drain the ground, you're creating a magic void. You've taken the magic, right? And so the only way that those two things can both be true is if the Wyvern were a void before they were Wyvern. I think it works well.

16:29 OK, I I'm I'm thinking of it slightly differently. But I am from getting to the same point you are. That Wyvern were something that had magic that has now had its magic repurposed. That's exactly. Where I am right? Yeah. I think the answer has to be Griffins. Griffins there are there are three channeling creatures, Dragons, wyverns and Griffins. Why Griffins over Dragons?

16:51 Because we don't know of any missing Dragons, but could be Dragons of the turned. Yeah, well, this I was saying this last week. Like if you stick a rune stone in a dead dragon White Walker style, are you getting a Wyvern? Yeah, that's a good point. They say they're created by the by the venom, but I and in my mind that meant created from nothing. But that doesn't necessarily mean that's what it is. Yeah, and why did she have to get to the flesh? I don't have an answer.

17:17 Yeah. OK, So the Wyvern are like zombies, but it seems that way. Yeah. Nicole, you've made us think. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Answered your question. Right. So she's on a dead Wyvern if she were on a living Wyvern, Assuming it was. Just say there's a parallel I've heard somewhere. Would she be OK? Great question, or at least great line of reasoning from the question.

17:38 Right. Yeah. So that was a fun one. But Nicole, to directly answer your question, the thought is not really related to the magic that was reintroduced. It was the original magic that was repurposed was our thought. Is it 100% correct? Nothing we say ever is honestly. Could not be. Yeah, So. And I think that's a totally valid point, Like, OK, you're reintroducing magic so they can and just drain the magic again. Yeah, Yeah, maybe possible, maybe not. Maybe maybe this barrier, like why specifically put that line in there?

18:10 Yeah. And to me it it like actually made complete and total sense when Theophany was saying drain draining the ground is the best way to do it. And then I was thrown off when she got on top of the wiring. Like if it's so let me let's think about this because there is actually another scenario where this happens.

18:25 It happens in Dever rally, right? Because he has to. Karis has set up the arena, but the stones? That were drained. Are from Breivik right and there's there is magic in Deverelli yeah there is not sorry not Deverelli in court cordon yes yes there is magic in cordon because. Zayden is like, can I just sleep on these stones?

18:45 And we know the Blues used to hatch in. Cordon near cordon, Yeah. Yeah, but presumably have not in a long time. I don't know. I don't know. But clearly this is a way to protect yourself even in places where there is magic like which I guess we already know. I don't think I'm going anywhere with this. I'm tired.

19:03 Yeah. It's interesting though, because I mean, we were introduced to the possibility that it's possible to have drained stones in an area with magic and those stones do not have magic reintroduced to them. So to Nicole's point, like well, actually not to Nicole's point, to your point, you could reintroduce magic through hatching grounds to an area and still have drained like barrier material there because. That's what we'd have to do, is get some stones to Arisha and find out.

19:31 I don't know how you'd find out, Yeah, without turning found in yourself, but yeah, that's a good one. Do you want to do another one since? Sure, the the one next one I have is not super substantial anyways, we just have discourse. Actually not even discourse, just thought provoking comments. The next topic is the Tierish crown. So Kathy Tejada, I hope I'm saying your name right. I'm so sorry if I'm not made the prediction. The crown mention is a foreshadow that tier and door will be independent by the end therefore there will be a crown again.

20:01 Also Navarre is about to go into civil war with tier and door for resources. And I said we talked about this more so we discussed 2 times that there was a mention of a Tierish crown, which by the way doesn't exist in Onyx Storm Marin's dream when she tells Kat you're the. Future Queen of Tyrandor and your people need you.

20:16 She hasn't lost her crown. She'll fight for what's hers. And then your comment from the last episode, Bodie and Theophany's conversation where she says you're almost done waiting. He'll be gone soon, the crown will be yours. And Bodie says we don't have a crown. There are actually a few more. That's why I love these comments as I go back to other books and I'm like, where else did this come up?

20:36 And we just it like totally went over our heads or at least it went over mine. In Iron Flame, Cat says, I'm going to war with you for a crown. That was the reason we were engaged. It was promised to me. Why would Cat promised a crown that early on when Tierrendor has been a province for like since they literally since the unification and Zayden builds onto it. In Iron Flame, Zayden says, I love you. She will never sit in the seat.

21:01 She will never wear a tearish crown. She's never had me on my knees in front of her. And Violet in that same book says did you know that Tierendor hasn't had a crown in more than 600 years? Turns out they melted them all down to forge the Unification Crown. Zayn brings up a tearish crown as a real possibility for Violet in Iron.

21:21 Like he knows. Yeah, Yeah. Also they are fighting a revolution in. I mean, it's never clearly said that they're like. Seeing Tyran door to get their crown back? Yeah, that's not what he's in it for, so we're told. And Violet has been wearing her braid in a crown the entire book, which feels like major foreshadowing.

21:40 But that's not what this is about. Yeah. I mean, I think we're totally like, yeah, Terendor will be independent by the end of book four, I think. I don't know what the larger implications of that are for Navarre. Yeah, I would do I Yeah, Kathy, we like your prediction, that's all. And I just love, I love when we like double down on stuff. I think it's really fun.

22:00 OK, you go. All right, so this one is about Aunt Dharna and the Irid bonds, and this is from Lovebug 2110, who is constantly liking our reels and we very much appreciate you Love bug. Thank you. And I'm going to write, I'm assuming it's a she, but I'm sorry, I don't know your pronounce, but I'm going to write her comment. I'm going to read her comment word from word because I think it's really good.

22:20 OK, so this was a comment on the post about Berwyn probably talking to other people through dreams too, not just Aiden, definitely Jack, maybe other higher ups at Baz Gaiath as well. What she wrote is the venom are clearly all connected so that the higher ups can find them and put them under their thumb of control.

22:38 Once someone channels a link opens up so a sage or maven can locate you and collect you. However I think the irids who are able to break magical bonds might be able to break down the venom hierarchy system by breaking the bonds between the higher up venom and their underlings. Therefore creating chaos within the whole system of control where the students are no longer beholden to their so-called masters and are able to turn against them.

23:02 So I think Aunt Darn is Zayden's way out from under Berwyn's control so that he can operate as a free agent and do what he needs to do. I love this theory. I think that's completely what's going to happen. I think that's 100%. If it didn't already happen. If it didn't already happen, I think it actually has already happened for sure. Wow, I love that, that gives me hope. And if we want to even deed backup quotes or are we just like, yeah, this is right, this is. I'm down to just say yeah this is right, but I'm also happy if you prepped.

23:33 Well, so I think so. We go back to the end. Darna to Leothan quote. She says I am bonded, and Darna's tail lowers, curving around me. Our lies, our minds. The very energy that forms us is intertwined. Right? That exactly. I find myself nodding. So end it. He angles his head and the scales above his eyes furrow into a single line.

23:51 Bonds are merely magical ties. You are eared, you are magic. Bend it, shape it, break it as you see fit. Right, so we have bend it, shape it, break it as you see fit. In my mind, that means we have actually been very limited in our thinking of what Antarna can do to these bonds, right? So I have theories here on all of the possibilities of what has actually happened at the end of Onyx storm within Darna breaking bonds. And people think in general that the bond has been broken between Taryn and Segal so that Zadan can go off and do whatever he needs to do with his new Vennon brothers, brother brothers, whatever.

24:24 All right, first broken the bond between Zaden and Berwyn. Love this. Absolutely think this is what happened. Totally hope this is what happened. I think it's great. It's either what has happen or what will happen, because it has to happen. Because he's he needs to be off doing things that aren't Berwyn's bidding, right?

24:41 Now, and this is the way Zaden is not evil in book four. And we know Zaden's not going to be evil in Book 4, right? And we know that Zadan says because I can't kill him. And he's talking about Berwyn and like about the bond. And she refers to it as a bond between them, right? Because there's a line. The bond between violence and me is the kind of magic that has no explanation.

25:01 The bond between Berwyn and me is the kind that should never exist, right? So it is a bond. Periods can break bonds, right? OK, so that's the first one bent the bond between Taryn and Segal so that they could be separated. So what if this bond is not broken, it is just changed because we know she can shape them as she see fits, right?

25:18 So they can be separated from multiple days, but the bond still exists if Taryn and Segal get close enough together. I like that idea more. I think the idea of breaking this bond is like so fundamentally tragic that I hope that's not what happened, but I like the idea of it being manipulated so that it can be, so that they can be apart from each other, so that Zaidan and Violet are protected and can be separated. This is my last one, and this I kind of love the idea of because I think it totally flips these tropes on their heads and I have no evidence for this.

25:49 This is just me spitballing, but I think this would really be fun. What if she created a bond between Violet and Zaden in the way in the way that Zaden was bonded to Berwyn right? So he can't kill her and he has to do what she says to protect her but like just to make sure 100% that he can't kill her since he's venom.

26:10 Yeah, he creates her using that as like a negotiation tactic, like, OK, you want me to do this, then I'm doing this. And he wouldn't have an issue with that. Right. And that would be a way, yeah. I mean, she basically has a venom on a leash. Like that's a very powerful thing. I think it would be very interesting if that bond was actually, I know we talked about them having a bond, but if that bond was actually created, if they're actually like, you know, the the mates idea, yeah, if Antara creates that between them. Interesting.

26:40 Yeah. I mean, I, they, he says they have a bond so they, they definitely have one. But I where I actually went is like, OK, they bent Taryn and Segal's bond or she bent Taryn and Segal's bond. I agree. I think that makes so much sense because Taryn is alive and in a cycle of rest, which I have to think it would be a lot more dire than that if he were sudden. That's the.

27:04 Whole thing on 4th. Wing right? It can't be a part. Violet cannot be killed because if Violet dies, Taryn dies, and if Taryn dies, Segal dies because of the bond can't be broken, right? So if we're just breaking it in Onyx store and Willy nilly, that's kind of shitty, you know? But the bending makes sense.

27:23 And then I would also just love. Yeah, I would love to see a proper bond between the Satan and Violet. Interesting. Yeah. I really like that one. Great comment. Love. Bug. 2110. Comment Love. Bug. Great. Love it. Thank you. Love. OK, the next topic that I had was the voice in italics and it's a topic because we so we posted a clip right of the voice in italics and what it all could mean.

27:48 And I thought it would be fun if we read it. Everyone had a bunch of comments on who they think it is. And I think it'd be fun to just talk through who are commenters think it is, whether we agree, why we agree, why we disagree. Lots of thoughts here. I want to respond to all of them. The first one from Sammy Malone, Esquire. What a fun name.

28:06 I talk to myself like that sometimes. Could just be her inner monologue. So the thought is it's just her inner monologue. My reaction, sure, but kind of boring. And why make it an italics? Yeah, also, we've gotten that comment too. Someone commented like, oh, it's the little gremlin in her head. Like, Oh no, is that just me?

28:21 But yeah, it could be that. The reason why I kind of don't think it's that is because the voice sort of disappears and then comes back. Yeah, and disagrees with her sometimes. Right. And disagrees with her sometimes, like she has moments where she's unsure of herself all the time. But then these are separate, distinct, italicized, like sentences, You know, it just it feels like a different voice.

28:45 Yeah, I agree. The next thought and we got this from a bunch of people, I'll call out a few We got it from Jess, we got it from Kathy again. Hi Kathy, thank you for your engagement was and Dharna and I think this is a common one. I like this one especially because we have a non zero reason to believe that Andarna can also operate across multiple time horizons.

29:04 So for our listeners who are normal, we think this is we think this because Andarna's gift as an adolescent was stopping time and so she supposedly loses this when she enters the dreamless sleep. Then Andarna leaves and returns suspiciously quickly. Yeah, and there's a popular theory out there. I would cite it, but so many people have mentioned it that she was gone for a long time.

29:25 So could this be her? Is it a popular theory? I thought it was just our crazy theory. I've seen it in a few places. OK, great, that's one I love when more people think that. The same thing, yeah. Sometimes I have something so insane that I look it up and see like, has anybody else thought this?

29:40 This is one of them. So this could be I guess. Could it be her talking to Violet from a different time horizon? Maybe It would also explain some of her hatching, like for Violet we still don't have a great explanation of how. And Darna knew that Violet was coming from literally inside her egg in the veil.

29:57 So I like Indarna. I think it's it doesn't make a ton. The reason that I don't like it is because Indarna is currently always in her head so. And the voice is still there on Unreal, which is what we talked about last episode exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that for me is like a count against it. But the multiple time horizons make it make it plausible if that is an actual skill that Indarna still has. Yeah, could be.

30:19 I still maybe it's a maybe. Yeah, the next one is super fun in my opinion. I want to find who said it. KKKK thinks that it could be her second signet. And the reason I think this one is super fun is because I could see it being a combination of Violet's gift of mind walking. I've decided in my head it's mind walking.

30:40 I know that it's dream walking of mind, walking with Andarna's gift of time manipulation like this. So it's her from the future. Yeah, it has legs for me because of the tone of that voice. Yeah, feels like Violet, like it does to me. I think it's an unrealistic one, but I think it's a fun one. What do you think?

30:57 Pretty sold on it being Dune. We got no comments. It was doomed. Also that one wouldn't be fun to react to because you already like justified it in the episode. Yeah, I'm like pretty set on it being Dune, but I like the idea that it's an dharna. I don't think we're going to get, once you start talking to your past self, it's kind of a sci-fi series and not a fantasy series anymore. Yeah.

31:21 But the mind walking thing is interesting to me. Like what if it's what if it is a mind Walker? What if it is the only person who can teach her how to hone her signet, which we have been led to believe is Berwyn. But maybe there's actually someone else who can do it, right? Yeah. And on Dune she says she can't shield, Right?

31:42 Right. Like, yeah, she starts shielding and the voice disappears. But on Dune she can't shield and the voice comes back. Yeah, true. So it could be a signet. But it's not hers. It's a different mind Walker. Yeah, well, it could like if it if it were hers the same I think would apply like if she's shielding against some some external.

32:00 So you think the only person who can teach Violet how to hone her signet is Violet in the future? I never said I think that, I said I thought it was fun. Don't try and make me sound insane. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just tried to follow this. The next one has similar vibes in my opinion. The next one was from Jess.

32:19 Again, Jess had a couple ideas. Malik. I think this one is also interesting because we're presented with the idea in as many words that Malik sent Liam as a kindness. I kind of don't like the idea of it being Malik alone, but Malik sending another voice like he sent Liam could be interesting. Yeah, I mean, the voice is definitely a she. Well, I don't know that it's definitely a she. Violet hears the Violet refers to her refers to the voices of she.

32:46 OK so also like if it's in Violet's head then she would hear it as a she. I still there is a tragic world in which that could still be her own voice. Which means. Violet of the Future is dead. Oh, I see. What? You're saying now extending her? Yeah, yeah. It's not Lilith because it was happening when Lilith was alive.

33:05 Yeah, it's not Lilith. It doesn't feel like Asher. I know at the time I was saying maybe it was Asher, but it doesn't. Feel like Asher, I actually just it was Nicole again and I called it out because I thought it was so funny, Nicole said. Why would her dad call her names from the beyond? Because she calls her an idiot.

33:21 Oh, that's a great point. Yeah, I don't think it's Asher. I don't think it's Asher. It made me giggle. Thank you, Nicole. I don't think it's Asher. Yeah, yeah. So we're not not sold on Malik alone. And if it's not Malik alone, like what significant females, I guess. Do we know who he would send? Like no one really.

33:39 Lyra, Lyra. Lyra would be fun, especially if Lyra were bonded to Terran. It could. Be a dragon? Well, I guess. Or it could be another rider of Terrans. Yeah, it could be. It would be in her head, but. This is before she bought it's. Before Terran. Yeah, you're right, You're right. I'm still pro Dune. I like the mind walking idea.

34:01 Yeah, I think Dune is still the one that fits. I'm still skeptical about Dune talking about herself in the third person, but I can get past it. The last one, that was a suggestion from Cerulean Heather. What a fun name her comment was. As someone who has read the Stormlight Archive series, my first thought was Shallon. Maybe Violet has another personality slash entity inside of her, One she isn't even aware of necessarily. And that feels OK too.

34:26 Like maybe this is something that we don't know about or understand yet. That is another entity within Violet. Seems to be a lot going on within Violet. Yeah. And if nothing fits, probably don't know who it is yet. Yeah, could be. There's been no reference to like, wait, did we already talk about how there's no twins?

34:43 No, except there is. Halden and Eric are twins and Marin has twin brothers, right? Yeah. And then we we get stuck on Fenn and his sister. We just don't know. Like that's a very answerable question that like they haven't chosen to give. Us well and Violet has all these different colors in her eyes, right? And is it because there are multiple violets? I don't know.

35:04 I really don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm just trying to think of any clues we would have had towards that. Yeah, I don't think in a second. And Darna's gift of time manipulation to me has not fallen off the face of the earth. Like I think that comes back. I think it matters. I think our slight mind blow moment in the last episode where we thought about Asher having to give back time has legs, especially because and Darna had to get and Darna was forced to grow faster than she was.

35:31 Meant to and Darna had to give back time. When she stopped it, yeah. That didn't even occur to me that it's it's her gift specifically that's causing that. Time, yeah, like that's right, it was the they they tried to trick us and say it was the use of power, but I actually think. It's a use it makes sense.

35:49 Right. Like she lost time on the other side. She was forced to grow quickly because she stopped it. If Asher was using time manipulation to travel the aisles, he would have been forced to give time back. And if he took as much time as we think he did, then what happened? And also like what happened to Andorna when she came back?

36:06 I don't know. I think we need to, I don't know when we talked about that, but at some point I think. At the end of. Yeah, maybe I'm upset that we didn't think of that before the Asher episode. It's OK. OK, reading anything, listening to anything fun before we close out here. Nothing that I didn't talk about in the last.

36:23 You have to give them a little bit of podcast. Magic. Yes, I texted you this week that I'm really digging the Japanese house's new album, and then I realized it was an album from early 2023. However, it's good. You heard your first. The album from 2023 released by Japanese House is good. It's good, you should check it out.

36:44 Bonnie Ver also just released some new like teasers off his upcoming album that I'm liking a lot. Those are good things, yeah. What about you? Nothing really, I mean I'm I'm trying to keep myself out of spirals with content right now so I'm not reading much. I need to find something that I like a medium amount.

37:02 If any of our listeners have recommendations for books that I will like a medium amount, please drop them in the comments I need. Like a like a go to bed. Book, yeah, like less addicting novels, but if it's not fantasy I simply won't be interested. So. Well, OK, so you might like this book that I was talking about last time, which up just for it's the Priory of the Orange Tree. OK.

37:25 It's like very complicated, but it's not enthralling enough for me to get a whiteboard out and figure out everything, which I think is like kind of the level of detail that you need to know, but it's certainly passable enough as just like a bedtime read. Yeah. OK. Maybe I'll look at that one it.

37:40 Is 800 pages lock just writing you down? That's fine. I mean, at this point, I have to, I do have to finish Crescent City. I won't like I can't. If I wait any longer, I'm going to have to reread the first book to make sure that I like remember everything fresh. And then I'm also going to I'm going to read Aktar alongside you.

37:56 So maybe I actually don't need any content. I think you should check out Sally Bruni, actually, although I don't know, you might just devour them. The problem, I don't know because I kind of devoured them, but they're not fantasy at all. They're just, they're just kind of romance, but they're kind of sad romance and they're very intellectually. Did you watch Normal People on Hulu? No.

38:16 OK. Well, you should, yeah. Maybe I'll try it there. Yeah, I could use more of my TV era, honestly, but it's completely dropped off the map for me. I'm behind on everything. I've not watched Weight Lotus, I've not watched season 2 of Severance, I've not watched like I'm. I'm nowhere on this planet right now.

38:31 Yeah. So we've been podcasting, Yeah. Yeah, it's for you guys, our 50 listeners. It's all for you. Hey, we thought we'd have 5, so 50. I know. Thank you all for being. We're very grateful for all of you. We really do. This is really so fun. I enjoy every minute of it. It's great. So thank you.

38:52 All right, thanks for listening. We know we're to find us if you leave more comments for us. So TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Dragons in the details POV. Gmaildragonsanddetailspart@gmail.com And that's pretty much it. Alright, it's all next time. Bye.