I Am All In…Again: Growing Up Mailer (Season 5 E6 “Norman Miller, I’m Pregnant”)

I am all in. Again!

More, more, more. I want to kiss you more. More, more, more. I want to kiss you more. I am all in.

Again, with Scott Patterson and iHeartRadio Podcast. Hey, everybody. Scott Patterson. I am all in. Podcast 111 Productions. iHeartRadio Media. iHeartRadio. podcast, we are going to be recapping Season 5, Episode 6 with Stephen Mailer. He's a writer, actor. We've had him on in 2023 for a one-on-one interview. But now we are recapping his episode. And welcome back to the son of one of the great writers of our time. Stephen Mailer is the son of none other than Norman Mailer.

We had you on before, but for those who didn't catch the episode, remind us how this came together, being on Gilmore Girls, Stephen.

Yeah, I have a friend, Jessica Queller, who is a writer-producer on the show, and she called me and just said, hey, I can't remember if it was called Norman Mailer, I'm pregnant at that time, but she said that my dad is a character in an episode that was coming up, and is there any way that he'd be interested in doing it? So I called him and asked him, he said, uh, you know, well, I'll do it if they give you a part. And, um, and so it came together and, uh, it was a real treat. And I, it's funny cause I had just, I was a, had become a single dad.

I had a five-year-old and a one-year-old and, um, had moved from Westchester back to Brooklyn where I was from and, um, and was sort of getting this apartment together for these two, you know, wild boys. And, uh, and it's expensive, and so this show is like a stroke of mazel, where all of a sudden, okay, this is great. It was a nice little chunk of money, and it sort of helped me get settled in Brooklyn. And I watched the episode last night, and my younger son, Teddy, who is one and a half at a time, is basically the same age as Gigi in the episode last night, that Lorelei is the father of Alexis Bidel's character. He's trying to take care of and navigate, so that was rather poignant to see that.

Well, one of the memories you shared was that last time you were on was the writers had a mini forum with Norman during a break and shooting. What else do you recall from your day on set?

Well, I want to say it was two days, actually, which didn't really seem to make sense because it wasn't, you know, I felt like we could have done everything in that one day. But I think maybe it was that we did two days because we We did the Dragonfly and then we did Your Place. So that was the second day. But I think I want to say it was the second day. And no, actually, no, it was the first day because I think Jessica had to leave that after the first day of shooting. So I think it was that first day. And Jess just sort of showed me around and introduced me to a lot of people. And my dad kind of hung back, I think, on the set or near his holding area. And a lot of the writers came over, and I actually don't

know how it evolved, but she said, your dad held court for a bunch of the writers on the show, and it was so sweet, and they were all so touched. So I loved that. I thought that was just beautiful.

That is nice. All right. Norman Mailer, I'm Pregnant, air date October.

26, 2004.

Lorelei and Suki have to make cuts at the inn and blame Norman Mailer. Rory starts to investigate a secret society at Yale. Meanwhile, Christopher is struggling with fatherhood shocker and GG directed by Matthew diamond written by James Berg, Lorelei Suki and Norman Mailer. Luke is picking up Lorelei for a movie date. She has a lot of weird antics, keys in the door, socks in the oven. Later, uh, He fixes her oven while she's on the phone with Rory.

Rory notices how happy she sounds. Meanwhile, back at the Dragonfly, Norman is having lunch with a journalist, and it's the third time this week. Lorelei's excited about it, but thinks the first step to being saloned. But Suki is upset because the only thing he is ordering is an iced tea and tries to pressure him to order something else.

I don't know if that's being a good business partner, you know, to have an American icon in your restaurant and you're upset about his order. All right.

It was so funny, by the way.

It was funny.

It was hysterical.

The presence alone is enough, right? Suki and Lorelei are meeting with a business agency, suggests dropping lunch. Suki gets upset again and blames Norman Mailer. Of all the things to be blamed for.

And he was blamed for a lot?

Small town hijinks.

No lunch?

Luke calls and tells Lorelai that Kirk is dressed as a hot dog handing out flyers advertising lunch at the Dragonfly. She rushes off to get Kirk away from dinner and apologizes. Lorelai confronts Suki about it. And in the middle of their argument, she runs out of the lunchroom and yells at Norman Mailer as well, as expected. But then she realizes she's pregnant and she shouts, Norman Mailer, I'm pregnant.

It has to be a highlight of Melissa's career to utter that phrase. Then, I mean, that also could have been the last four words of the entire series. Hey, mom, I'm pregnant or Norman Mailer. I'm pregnant. Then Norman and the journalists end up at Luke's Diner. Luke also complains they're only ordering iced tea.

Couple of bozos in the corner. Right.

How long has it been, Stephen, since you watched your episode?

It's been less than 24 hours. I watched it last night.

And so what was it like? Tell us about it.

It was wonderful. It was very nostalgic. Um, and again, just sort of brought back that it was really a, such a wonderful, just personally a trip with my father who was, um, he was 80, uh, 81 at the time and was sort of having a little trouble walking around. He had a couple of canes. And so I met him.

I think I flew to Boston to, um, meet him. He's living in Provincetown, Massachusetts. And then, uh, you know, you had to have one of those carts in the airport to navigate to the plane, but we had a great time. It was a really fun trip and I was, you know, really grateful to be able to help him and, uh, on the journey. And, um, we, and, uh, yeah, it was just, I don't know. Uh, it was so generous of him to do this really for me and for my friend, Jessica. And yeah, I just had a lovely time with him. And I remember, um, I think after the first day of shooting, Jessica was having a Yom Kippur dinner with a good friend of ours that we had done a play with. I met Jessica doing a play years ago called Peace Time in the WPA Theater

in New York City. It's not there anymore. We did an out of town, not even a triad, but it was sort of a two part production. We did it at the Capitol Rep at Albany and then came to New York for a run. And one of the actresses, Kelly Wolf was her name. She was in the play. And we just became a very tight family. A couple other actors, Gordon Greenberg, Ken Garrido, and the five of us were really tight and lived together up in Albany.

And then, you know, we're in New York. And so we had dinner with Kelly and her husband. And my dad didn't want to go. And so he went back to the hotel by himself. And I remember feeling great guilt about that. And he sort of had to get to the dining room, to his hotel room. But he did it. He was fine. He sort of walked, took his time. He was having some issues with his breathing.

He used to smoke like Camel Non-Filters for many, many years. But quit in his 40s, but it's still taking its toll 40 years later. And he said, I remember he said, sort of stopped at the pool and watched the pool for a while and then got up and made it to his room.

So....

But, um, and then the next day we were on the set again, that was really fun and had a lovely dinner that night with a dear friend of his, um, and then flew, flew back to New York. Um, so that's, you know, I don't know. That's in a way, my fondest memory of the whole thing is just, you know, spending some time with him, which becomes, you get older, you know, a little becomes, you know, harder to do. Right. Um, especially as, you know, a young father myself at the time. And, um, but being on the set, that was really fun. It's always, you know, Listen, acting jobs can be hard to come by.

It was a great couple of days on a Warner Brothers lot, you know, and driving around in the cart. And Matthew Diamond was wonderful. And we had dinner with Dan and Amy. I think the night that we arrived and Jessica, they were very literary and they, you know, peppered my dad with a lot of questions. And they're like, what's the greatest novel ever written?

And what did he say?

Anna Karenina.

Oh, yeah.

I think they might have given that to him. But I think he agreed, but there might have been another. But I think that I think they all went with that one.

It's always a Russian.

I know.

It's either Dostoevsky. or or tolstoy you know it's it's they're always the greatest novels ever written as probably my.

Dad's roots they're all lithuanian my grandmother and came from lithuania.

So yeah If you will, and you don't have to. Can you share with us some of your fondest memories from childhood with your dad?

Yeah, my dad, you know, he was married six times. And basically, he was married five times in 30 years. And then my stepmother, Norris, he was married to her for 30 years. So that was really interesting. So it was a lot of marriages through, you know, through the 1940s through the 60s. Through the 70s, really. And then met my stepmother in 75? Yeah, 1975. Stepmother Norris. And he has children from every marriage. He has a daughter from his first marriage, two daughters from his second marriage, daughter from his third marriage, two sons, my older brother and myself, from his fourth, daughter from his fifth marriage, Maggie, that's her painting behind me.

Oh, nice.

And then a son from his last marriage to Norris. And she had a son from a previous marriage that he adopted, my brother Matthew. So my dad was really great about keeping us all together and really close to all of them. And especially my sisters. And so he would gather us, you know, every summer for a month.

We used to go to Provincetown and then, well, Maine at first. And then I lived in Provincetown for eight years as a child because he would go there in the summer with my mother and me and my brother together. And all of them, you know, my sister, the whole family. But then when he and my mother split, my mom just kept my brother Michael and I there for eight years, year round. Michael seven, me eight. He moved back to New York to be with my dad for a year before I moved. So I just, I really, like Maine was really exciting. He was very disciplined with his craft.

So in the morning he would get up and, you know, he would write and then we'd all have lunch together. We'd go on like a hike. We were in a Mount Desert Island, which had the beautiful national park called the Katy National Park. So we'd do a hike every day. And then sometimes I think after he would then write in the evening and then, you know, we'd have dinner.

But I just, that was such a, those are such fond memories for me of being, you know, I would sort of be with my brother, you know, Michael sort of, and my mom, you know, during the year, we'd see my dad every other, every other weekend, you know what I mean? And sometimes he'd come to P-Town to, to, to do some writing. So we'd see him then that was always really exciting. And on holidays, of course.

So he was, he was in New York and you were in Providence.

He was at first, he was in Stockbridge, Mass.

Gotcha.

With my, with my stepmother, Carol, his fifth wife. And then he moved, ended up moving back to New York.

Gotcha.

So at first, We would go to Stockbridge every other weekend and on holidays and then Maine in the summer. And then when he was with my stepmother, Norris, I ended up moving back to New York in 1978. So then it was, you know, I was with him every other week. But I think those fondest memories are just like being in the summer with all of my siblings, just having a wild time. And yeah, it was very...

And he would do some really fun creative projects, but like we, um, he one year chose the novel, the world, according to Garp, um, and had everybody read it. I was a little on the younger side, so I was a part of it and then had sort of a debate about it or a salon, if you will, with my siblings who were sort of, I know that was really cool in hindsight. Um, we all play chess. We'd have a chess tournament at the end of the summer.

And I remember I was the first one to learn, but then my brother, Michael, my older sister, older sister, Elizabeth, they learned, they got really good quickly and, and kicked my butt. And then, and then we would do play readings and we did, I remember doing a play reading of pig mailing, my same sister, Elizabeth Betsy. And that was really fun. And my dad would direct it. So yeah, it was just, and, and, you know, I don't know if you ever spent any time in Maine, but just, just gorgeous sort of the upper sort of.

Oh, yeah. We used to go up every summer when I was a kid to go to Moosehead Lake.

Oh, yeah. That's the interior.

That's beautiful.

I went on a camping trip there with some friends many years later. Spectacular.

Yeah, we'd go up every summer for a two-week vacation when I was a kid. My first memories are of getting in that little outboard boat with my dad from the dock and getting in when I was four years old. It's my first memory. Lovely place. Lovely, lovely place. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that. Yeah. All right, let's get back to Yale Daily News. All right, here we go. Rory feels like she is behind at the Yale Daily News because she wasted two months in Europe, and then she gets assigned the features beat by Doyle. Then Logan walks into the newsroom. Doyle nervously welcomes him back, and that's when Rory finds out who he really is, a Huntsberger, son of newspaper magnate Mitchum. Logan then does an old-fashioned

newspaper bit, and Rory smirks. Rory chooses an illegal downloading story, but she's struggling. And she sees a girl in a gorilla mask, follows her, puts her in a black SUV, and yells, in omnia paratus, the famous slogan. Rory digs around and finds it out about a secret society at Yale, the Life and Death Brigade, and makes it her feature story.

She confronts Logan about it after seeing his granddad's name in the photo of the brigade but he pretends he doesn't know what she's talking about later logan sends her an aol chat telling her she has to agree to the conditions and he will let her in on the inside to get the real story she.

Agrees i love that when they were chatting right i was like wow look at that.

Right right right the times have changed messaging um So this is the beginning of the iconic Life and Death Brigade. What are your thoughts on Logan from watching this episode?

I was a little concerned. I don't know. There seemed to be something sinister happening. Yeah. How does it all turn out, ultimately?

Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, quite a risky. I mean, what they eventually engage in is risky. Risky. Somewhat life-threatening at times. But, you know, such is youth and expansion and all that. But, I don't know, I always thought that he was the best match for her.

Really?

Oh, sure. Oh, yeah.

Not the chap by the icy machine?

No, none of that stuff. That's all just, you know, I just think that's a cliche. It's been done. Why do it again? yeah, he's going to be the guy that gets you in trouble and gets you off your path and it's going to ruin your life. But man, you're just going to be so in love for about 10 minutes and then it turns into a disaster. I didn't want to see it. I never wanted to see it.

So I've seen it, you know, I've seen it before too many times. I just wanted to see something. It was a love story-ish, if you catch the reference. And I just think that has a lot of... I think that he was intellectually, if not her equal, her superior. I thought that he, of being from the manor born, knew how to, would eventually learn how to handle that level of wealth better than how he was handling it now.

But I think he was, I think when you, he was, he was living in the moment. and he was enjoying his life because he knew what his life was going to become because it was so planned out for him. So she was catching him at, at the only time in his life where he was, you know, an adult and somewhat free. Um, so she was going to get the best of him or, you know, maybe, maybe a little bad, but a lot of good. Um, so I always liked it. I always liked the possibilities of it. And, um, You know, and for my money, I hope he's the baby daddy, actually. What were your thoughts on it?

I was curious when he came in into the episode, I thought he had graduated and he was coming back to visit the newsroom. But it seems like he was still a student. So that school just started. So he was just kind of he was back from the summer and ready to get on his his his old desk, so to speak.

Yeah, he just didn't go to school a lot.

So he was away. He got away for a year.

Yeah, I mean, I think he would skip classes quite frequently to do things with his friends.

I gotcha.

Or we were just not, you know, we were just not going to focus on his character to that degree, to that depth.

I see.

I was surprised.

I mean, I was surprised by it because he does seem, you know, sort of like the kind of the cliche villain. You know what I mean? Like, it's not going to end well. The secret society and the girl in the gorilla mask. It was, you know, it was funky. So when she sort of gets intrigued by him, I was taken by surprise.

With that. I just, you know, also comedically, I think there's just more yarn there.

Oh, I agree. I love what you're saying. Like, that makes total sense to me. It's interesting and sort of, and the concern from the audience, I think, would really sort of fuel that and, I mean, sort of becomes like a classic, you know, tension that that would be what's going to happen next what's the cliffhanger.

Right right all right well let's get on to Christopher and Lorelei Christopher as you know is Rory's biological father Chris calls Lorelai in a panic, not knowing what to do with Gigi, who won't stop crying. While at Christopher's, the place is a mess, and he tells her Sherry, his betrothed, has been offered a job in Paris and left.

Lorelai tells Rory about what she did for Christopher while they are at Emily's no-show Friday night dinner. She seems bothered by it. Rory then heads to Christopher's and asks him to stay away from Lorelai because she doesn't want him to ruin Lorelai's relationship with Luke. Yeah, he seems to butt in at the most inopportune moments.

How long were you and Luke and Lorelai together at that moment in the series?

Had just gotten together. Oh, really?

Wow.

Had just gotten together, basically. Well, I don't know. We got together season four. God, we're on season five already? Season four, at the end of season four. So really not a long period of time. A couple weeks, I guess. Maybe a month or so.

And were you a character in the series from the get-go?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I was the long-suffering diner owner, you know, who would watch her in silence. dating this guy and the next guy and the next guy. And, you know, they almost, you know, he just didn't want to, he didn't want to ruin their friendship. Hey, it's a small town. So he just kind of kept his mouth shut until he couldn't anymore.

Right.

So, all right. Steven, do you think Rory overstepped by dashing her dad to stay away or is she just being protective of, of, of Lorelei's relationship with Luke?

I think I was very moved by that scene. And I thought it was a little, a little dysfunctional. You know what I mean? That the daughter has to step in and intervene to like, to take care of her mother. But maybe that's the relationship, you know, Lorelei has a lot of childlike qualities and Rory sort of the adult in a lot of ways. That's certainly how I grew up with my mother. Not so much my father. Well, sometimes my father, you know, so, that kind of made me sad. I thought it was a very poignant scene. Um, I liked that the episode ended with that. I kind of wanted the dad, I don't know, to, to really have a reckoning, be like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry.

You know, you're right. Absolutely. Hey, you know, um, I wanted this dad to really be more of an adult, I guess, and to let Rory just be a kid in college writing on a paper and just, you know, um, navigating this new life. Um, so yeah, I, uh, You know, when the scene happened with Lorelai coming to visit, at first I thought, you know, forgive me my ignorance with the show, I thought, oh, is this her brother? And she's just trying to help out because she has all this experience as a mom. And then when it came out, you know, oh, okay, this is the father of, this is Rory's dad. You know, I was like, I was sort of having mixed feelings. Like, okay, well, it's nice that they have this relationship. And then she's going to,

you know, help him. And it didn't seem like there was anything, any kind of romantic tension, you know? Do they, were they sort of on again, off again in the first several seasons?

Well, he was famous for, I mean, Lorelei basically told him after Rory was born to kind of stay away. And he just has never found himself, you know, he's the eternal boy, right? who refuses to become a grownup and you know, yeah. So, uh, you know, they use him, they inject him into the storyline when things are going particularly good. Um, he comes into to mess everything up. Yeah. Um, and, uh, yeah, they eventually, you know, they, they, she does cheat on Luke with him. It's either this season or next or yeah.

I mean, it's pretty, pretty, and it causes them to break up. Oh, yeah.

That's the way I feel. Oh, you got a couple of bozos in the corner, you can drink an iced tea, you know?

Yeah. But anyway, uh, Well, overall, what'd you think of the episode?

I enjoyed it again. It was really fun to watch it. And I don't think I was able to watch it when we did this a few years ago.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. I can't remember to be honest with you, but I loved it. And I was telling Jackie earlier, my sister, Danielle and her daughter, Isabella loved the show. And I think Isabella had, I mean, Danielle had Isabella when she was 32 and which I think when the series started, I think Lorelai was 32 and Rory 16. Is that correct?

Because you were 16 when you had Rory?

Yes.

So that was interesting. So they always felt like, you know, they watched the show together and felt like they were the Gilmore Girls. So when I got the, you know, when this thing happened, they were over the moon. They were thrilled. At that time, Isabella, I think, was like 16 or so. She was in high school. And Danielle would have been in 2004- I think, uh, I said 47, she was more 57. So, um, interlay forties. So this is one of Danielle's paintings. I showed Maggie's.

Oh, great. Yeah.

Wow. So, um, that's one of the two, the cat.

Whoa. Very nice. Very, very nice. Very nice.

So that was, um, That was very exciting. I'm losing my train of thought.

What was the original question, Scott? Just the overall impression of the show.

Oh, yeah, yeah. So I went in. So I remember that. I remember taking a set photo of my dad and me and Lauren and Melissa and sending it to Isabella, which was very exciting. And so, yeah, it was really cool. It was really cool just to take in the whole episode. And all the scenes with my dad were all sort of improvised. And I loved seeing that. And I really wasn't sort of up on current events at the time, just because, again, I was singled out all of a sudden.

I had my kids half the time. They were five and one. And I loved being a father. I loved taking care of them. And, again, we'd started this new life in Brooklyn, and their mom was in Westchester. There was sort of a similar storyline there, except I felt I was very accomplished as a father, Scott. There you go.

Change a diaper with my eyes closed, my friend. But again, Teddy had like a shock of blonde hair. So he really looked a lot like Gigi. So that, you know, that was very nostalgic for me. And just thinking about the, you know, the journey with my father and being on set. And I remember Alyssa going to me, she's like, Stephen, are you an actor? I was like, I am. She's like, oh, good.

Because you're making this look way too easy.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then a lot of, you know, the parts that were scripted. And my dad, I thought my dad was great when we were improvising. With the scripting part, he could be a little stilted. As an actor, sometimes you could kind of, you know, like when he says, Norm Manowar, I'm pregnant, and he says, congratulations. Anyway, I really wanted to be an actor, but he didn't really have those chops. He still made three experimental films in the 60s that starred himself. And those were fun because, again, there was a lot of improvising going on. And he was very sexy in Maceo. He was sort of like an Austin Powers character. He had this leather vest and lots of chest hair and a hat and terrible teeth.

You know, great blue eyes. And I don't know if you've ever seen him. I've just seen him with... And all of his wives are like mother, his previous two wives, his current, like his mistress who became, you know, my sister, Maggie's mom, Carol. And there's a scene between he and Carol where he there, he's singing, he's trying to get her to sing. Cause Carol was a jazz singer and he was tone deaf. And so he's like, but Carol would not sing. And so he kept trying to do that.

That's one of my favorites of all time.

Is this wait a minute can can we get these films is.

There anyone oh yeah absolutely what are they called i have to see made that's maidstone there's a very there's a really heavy scene at the end maidstone yeah like the country club yes and and uh yes and then hamptons yeah yeah.

So they called it maidstone.

Maidstone that's the name of the film. It's about a pornography director running for president. And the CIA is planning an assassination attempt because they can't have that. I guess things have changed, haven't they, Scott? So, yeah, my dad plays the director.

Dad predicted the future.

Yeah, he really did. He really did.

So that's a film that you can get. You can get that.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I'm sure you can rent one. We actually just did a deal, actually, to get it out there, to get those three films. It's Beyond the Law, Wild 90, and Maidstone. And Wild 90 is about a group of gangsters that are in hiding at a, what do you call it, like a safe house? or something like that.

And it's with all of his buddies. And one of them is Mickey Knox, who was a wonderful actor. He's in it. I don't think he's in Maidstone. And then Beyond the Law is about a bunch of cops. I haven't seen that one in a long time. I just remember a bunch of cops in a bar drinking. And my dad's an Irish cop with a terrible Irish accent.

Oh, God, I have to see these. I have to see these.

At the end, you're going to be, it's pretty heavy. It's in for a shock. Something that I dreamed about many, many years.

If I have trouble acquiring these, can I email you to maybe get an inside track on getting these films?

Yeah, absolutely.

I'd appreciate that.

We had someone, a gentleman who's acting as sort of a, I guess the film agent to sort of like, the contract just ended with Criterion.

Okay.

And so he just did a new contract. So I think they should be available for streaming pretty soon.

Oh, that's brilliant.

But again.

That is brilliant.

I would think you'd be able to get them on Prime at least.

I don't know.

All right. I'll look.

I think I have... I have some DVDs. I've actually got the masters in my garage.

What I wouldn't give. All right, so I'll be in touch. It was delightful talking to you. Please, please, Stephen, come back. We'll do this again. You don't even, I mean, you were in the one episode. You're not in any other episodes, right?

I'm not. I wish I had.

Doesn't matter.

I wish I could have been like the, you know, Melissa McCarthy's the father of her baby. That would have been, I mean, come on. Norman, I'm sorry. We're having tea here because this is my girlfriend. I mean, it was there for the taking.

All right. Well, you have to come back on and guest host another episode that you're not in. And best fans on the planet, thanks for all your downloads, cards, and letters. We read every one of them. We so appreciate it. And remember, where you lead, we will follow. Stephen, thanks so much for coming on. Stephen Mailer, everybody. Stay safe, everyone. Hey, everybody, don't forget, follow us on Instagram at I Am All In Podcast and email us at gilmore at iheartradio.com.

I Am All In…Again: Growing Up Mailer (Season 5 E6 “Norman Miller, I’m Pregnant”)

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