IAAI Town Meeting: Justice for Lindsay (Season 5 E2 “A Messenger, Nothing More”)

0:00 I am all in.

0:03 Again!

0:17 Gilmore Girls Gazette with Amy Sugarman and Danielle Romo. An iHeartRadio podcast.

0:24 Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of I'm All In Town Meeting with myself, Tara, and Suzanne. hello hi today we're talking about season five episode two a messenger nothing more which aired on september 28th 2004 a messenger and nothing more is correct yes yeah basically is okay i guess we'll just start from the beginning and i noticed something in the first scene that i probably maybe didn't pay attention to before okay did luke's diner have new menus.

0:57 Oh i don't know.

0:59 The coffee cup on the menu is blue instead of his normal yellow.

1:06 Interesting. Okay.

1:08 And then I was like, well, this is definitely something that Suzanne pays more attention to than me. So maybe that menu's been there before. But I was like, and it looked pretty like clean and fresh. And I was like, did Luke get new menus for season five?

1:20 Maybe he did, although he's been gone for seven weeks at the Renaissance Fair.

1:25 But Caesar has been taking over.

1:26 I was going to say, maybe Caesar did a switcheroo. That's a good question. I was too busy noticing that the cash register was gone to notice the menus.

1:35 Did not notice that. I noticed the fries, the steak cut fries.

1:41 Yeah, those looked good.

1:42 I was going to say, I was really hungry when watching this, and I was like, I want fries. No, I noticed the menu... obviously the postcards which Rory had a lot of time to send postcards apparently.

1:52 She really did it was like one every day practically.

1:55 She was gone it was what six weeks she was gone seven I think.

2:00 So yeah because it was about she left around the same time that Luke did and they say later in the episode that Luke's been gone for seven weeks so I think she was gone most of the summer.

2:12 Like two a week yeah you try nothing else to do Emily was on her butt the whole time She wanted to go for two seconds and she couldn't. I know. Honestly, though, going on a European trip with Emily, the only part that sounds nice is the luxury of where you're staying.

2:31 Yeah.

2:32 Like the best of the best. You have like a butler.

2:34 Right, right. You have the concierge doing everything that you need.

2:38 Yeah. But she's trapped otherwise.

2:41 Yeah, pretty much. All right.

2:44 What topic should we tackle first? Oh, wait, I have one other call out. I don't know if you noticed it. What? Did you notice the Hanson sodas back?

2:56 Yes. I did.

2:59 I had that and I highlighted it. I got so excited to see it. And it was like not fully showing Hanson's, but it was turned a little bit when she gets home and she's in the kitchen. And also, what's the name of the cookie jar?

3:14 Oh, Maxine.

3:15 Maxine was being blocked by a flower pot.

3:19 Okay, I didn't even notice the flower pot. I did notice the Hanson's. And there were two, like she had one in her hand, but then later there were two on the table.

3:26 On the table, yeah.

3:27 Maybe Lorelai had opened one too or something, yeah. But you know, I did not see a clown pillow in this episode.

3:33 I didn't either.

3:34 I kept waiting because they were in the living room. So I kept waiting to see it.

3:38 Well, I didn't see it. And then I was like, I may have blinked and Suzanne caught it. But now I know you didn't catch it. I was like, there was no clown pillow.

3:46 Yeah, I did not see it.

3:48 Yeah, but, and really quick, I know we were talking about, oh, wait, hold on. We have a note from Jackie. One of the girls Zach brings into the diner is Erin Foster.

3:58 I don't know who that is. Am I supposed to know who that is? You know me. I don't know, like, any contemporary people.

4:08 I am literally blanking on, yes, thank you, Jackie. I was like, what is the name of the show? She created the show with Adam Brody, Nobody Wants Us.

4:17 Okay.

4:18 Oh, God.

4:18 Okay. And I watched the first season of that. Okay. Oh, that's pretty cool.

4:23 I didn't know it was her. Which, speaking of who's who, were those kids that Michelle was babysitting like anyone that we know now? I forgot to look it up.

4:33 I meant to look it up, too, and I.

4:35 I didn't recognize them, so I was saying no.

4:37 On my TV, when you, like, hover over it, it, like, pops up the actor, and the IMDb picture for the kid, the boy, was a picture of him, like, as a boy, so I.

4:49 Don't think he grew up... Yeah.

4:52 Like, if he was still significant, then he would have an adult picture.

4:56 Well, usually, like, a lot of the kids from the show, we've, like, they've grown up to be someone, and, like, I didn't recognize either of them. Like we saw, um, God, we had a couple, there was like, there was like, um, Kendall from big time rush. There was a couple, uh, Victoria justice. Like we've had, we've had a couple, but yeah, I, yeah, I was like, I don't know. But also I know we, right before we started, you mentioned the kids that you're like, who just leaves their kids with the front desk guy, but they probably just didn't want to take care of their own kids.

5:28 Well, and I was shocked that Laurel, I was like, yeah, they can stay here. There's plenty of people for them to hang out with. I'm like, no one running any kind of business would say, yeah, leave your kids here and we'll watch them for you.

5:38 I will be responsible for your children.

5:40 That's never happening.

5:42 No, but I will say, I think she did it because they like Michelle and she wanted to bother Michelle.

5:48 Well, and she wants them to be happy because she wants, she tells Michelle, she wants them to go tell their friends what a great place this is. So she probably would have given them anything that they wanted because she wants them to be happy customers. Yeah.

6:03 But still very odd.

6:05 But yeah, that was definitely a moment like, I don't know. Yeah.

6:12 Also just to jump, I know we're jumping around, but the, the, fight between Lorelai and Rory I know it's this doesn't even compare to what we will be getting spoiler alert when they're actually in a bigger fight but it's just so like I don't know it just bothers me and I don't know like I can't pinpoint which part of it bothers me they just annoy me when they're fighting because they're like not real fighting do you know what I mean like they're just annoyed to speak to each other yeah.

6:45 I mean, this one, I get it. Rory was clearly in the wrong.

6:51 Yeah.

6:52 It wasn't even like it was a difference of opinion.

6:54 Right.

6:56 Yeah. It's not like, you know, they both were coming from an equally valid place. Rory was in the wrong and she needed to realize that and so I get it from Lorelai's standpoint because she's also super busy with the inn and so she's like okay you're gonna be a brat like I'm not even gonna.

7:12 Deal with you right yeah go to Europe it's fine yeah exactly yeah but I mean it turned out to be what Rory needed like she needed some distance and some perspective and to write a letter Right.

7:23 And like we talked about last time, like she's realized that, you know, Dean probably was misleading her about his relationship with Lindsay being over. So I think it was it was good for her to go away. And yeah, the letter was the letter was.

7:41 Yeah, the letter.

7:42 Well, I mean, she was going to be home in two days, so she could have.

7:47 I think she but she's Laurel, not Lorelai. Rory is not someone who likes confrontation. So I think it was kind of a rip the band-aid before she gets there. So once she's back, it's like over. She doesn't have to deal with it.

7:58 Yeah.

7:59 I bet you my guess is because she spent 90% of her trip writing between postcards and this letter.

8:05 You know, that's a good point because it made me think of when Jess crashed her car. She wrote a letter and handed it to Dean and made him read it from the letter. So that makes perfect sense.

8:17 Yeah, which I get it because she's a good writer. If anything, we've learned that about her over the years.

8:22 Yeah.

8:23 Which is fine. Some people can form better words and thoughts on paper than just saying it out loud. But also, I thought the scene in the grocery store was weird.

8:34 Yes.

8:35 The way that Dean was acting. I'm like, you have a wife at home. It's now been six weeks, seven weeks since you've slept with someone else and you are just still thinking about Rory. Like, wouldn't it be a hint?

8:48 Yeah. Well, and Lorelai, because I was complaining to my husband about this last night, too, that same scene. Because Lorelai's trying to hand him a letter that's going to have all of this information in it. And he keeps badgering Lorelai, like, where is she? What's she doing? Who's she with? When's she coming back? Like, just take the freaking letter and read it, and you'll get all of that information. It just bothered me that he kept annoying Lorelai about it with all of his questions.

9:18 Yeah.

9:19 She's trying to hand you a letter. Just take it.

9:30 There was also a huge stock of Pop-Tarts behind her.

9:35 Yeah, but weren't they generic? I saw them.

9:38 It was one was strawberry and one was chocolate. I paused it and I was like, man, that shelf is full of Pop-Tarts. It's like the off-brand. It's like, you know when you get like Target brand? Like, I love a good Target brand.

9:49 They were toaster pastries.

9:53 Okay, so the money went to Hanson's this episode, clearly.

9:55 Yes.

9:57 I'm so glad you noticed that because I was like, man, there. is not a shortage of off-brand Pop-Tarts today.

10:03 Yeah.

10:04 So funny.

10:05 So what do we think about the scene in the town square when they run into Lindsay and her mom?

10:12 Oh, that one.

10:12 I mean, I get the anger. Yeah. But there was no acknowledgement that This was Dean's fault also. Rory didn't... Rory isn't the one that pursued Dean. He's the one that showed up at Lorelai's house.

10:30 I tend to disagree a little bit. She called Dean when she needed someone to come to the bar. She's been talking to Dean. She's been hanging out with Dean without Lindsay knowing. She is also part of the issue.

10:41 I agree with that. I'm not saying it's only Dean's fault, but Rory can't take 100% of the blame.

10:49 No, it's 50-50 for sure.

10:52 And so the way that, I can't remember Lindsay's mom's name. They said it, but I can't remember what it was.

10:59 I don't remember either.

11:00 The way that she was like coming at Rory like, you know.

11:04 Like she was a child.

11:06 Right. Or like the whole intent was that, you know, Rory was trying to ruin everybody's life, which she didn't. She didn't like set out to do that. And Dean was just as intentional as she was, if not more.

11:20 Well, that's why when I even mentioned like Rory's child. Well, okay. We mentioned a couple episodes ago that Lindsay's childish because all she wants is Dean to stay at home or work and make money. There was like no in between. And then we also mentioned in the last episode that Rory was very childish in that opening scene. And so I think this kind of makes it like... The one thing I was going to say is it just makes it seem like they're a bunch of 12-year-olds. And this is a bigger issue. Why is your mother coming to yell at Rory?

11:57 Right. Like it's a playground fight or something.

11:59 It's as if, yeah, there was a fight at school and now the other mother is scolding the other kid. It's like, why are... Because even... You got to give Lorelai credit. She's staying out of it. The only thing that she did was deliver the note, which... The only reason why I think Lorelai is even somewhat involved is because she did walk in on them. So, like, she definitely knew, but she's kept her mouth shut otherwise. She's never talked to anyone about it. She hasn't told, you know, like, she hasn't told anyone. Yeah. So, for Lindsay's mom to come in, I was like, this is why this whole storyline is so stupid to me. Because you want them to be adults who are married, but you're treating them like they're 12-year, like, middle schoolers. Yeah.

12:40 Yeah. Well, and so thank you, Jackie. She reminded us her name is Teresa. But we know that's how Lindsay's mom is because we saw them like that at the Dragonfly when she's like bringing lunch and she comes over and they make dinner and they do work around the apartment. Like she isn't over the idea that her child is grown up. And she needs to like move on from the day-to-day momming of her.

13:10 But the day-to-day momming of bringing lunch and stuff, I still think is very, very different from getting in your kid's personal life.

13:19 It is, but I don't think she thinks it is.

13:21 No, no, no. But I'm saying like, for example, like I'm a grown adult and my mom is always like, what are you having for dinner? Or like, what do you want? You know what I mean? Like, it's just, you know, or like, did you eat breakfast? Like, it's like things like that, but that's just more of a motherly thing. But like, I mean, my parents are not, my mom is not asking me about like my friendships and you know what I mean? Like it just, yeah, it's again, this Lindsay storyline bugs me. I just think it was done so poorly. Yeah. I just think it all, the more I think about it, I'm like, poor Lindsay.

13:57 Now she just looks like a, you know what she reminded me of actually? Dean's little sister, who's just like crying in the corner. Like it's exactly, it was like Dean has this female, Clara, thank you. Where she's just randomly crying and someone else is like speaking on her behalf. You know what I mean?

14:11 Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I was actually kind of proud of her though. When we saw that scene where she was throwing all of Dean's stuff out the window. Yeah. I was proud of her in that moment because it would have been so easy for her to be like crying and weeping and, oh, please come back to me. Don't leave me, you know, like that. But she stood up for herself and she was like, you need to get the hell out of here and your stuff is leaving right now.

14:39 Right.

14:40 I was proud of her for that.

14:41 She did, which again, that's like the most personality of Lindsay we've seen this entire time is like her standing up for herself.

14:48 Yes. Yeah.

14:50 And I think we got a little bit of it in the last episode when she's like talking to at the butcher like I need to get this right. Like you kind of see it but like I mean the storyline just sucks. That's my personal opinion. It just sucks. Like it just I get why it had to happen. Yeah. Well actually no I don't get why it had to happen.

15:08 Like do you think we needed it? Like I don't think we needed the storyline. Do you think we needed Rory to lose her virginity to Dean?

15:15 Well, I don't know that we needed to. They needed to have some kind of drama, I think, to... Well, why Dean? Well, yeah, I don't know.

15:27 Like, why did we... I mean, don't get me wrong.

15:29 I mean, it could have been Jess.

15:31 Yeah, but I feel like that makes... I've never thought about this before. That makes a little bit more sense because why are we bringing back Dean? Like, that is a boyfriend to go. When, like, I understand loving to work with Jared Padalecki. He seems like a great guy. Don't get me wrong.

15:46 Yeah.

15:46 But, like, I kind of would have loved it to be that she lost her virginity to some random one-night stand in college.

15:53 Yeah.

15:54 Like the jerk. Yeah. Like the jerk that Emily made her hang out with.

15:59 Yes. Yeah.

16:00 Just get it over with.

16:01 Yeah. Well, and I've made that comment before. Like, she keeps cycling through the same boyfriends over and over. And it's, like, she needs to stop. Like, she needs to break that cycle. There's more than just these three men in the world.

16:15 Also, the amount of times they said, like, oh, he loves me. I'm like, does he?

16:20 Yeah.

16:21 I was like, she said it more than once.

16:23 Yeah.

16:27 And he also said it back to her. I can't remember if it was the last episode or this one, or maybe it was both. I don't remember.

16:31 Yeah, I think he said it first.

16:34 When they were in bed, right?

16:35 Yeah.

16:36 Yeah. And then it was again at Miss Patty's. In the last episode.

16:41 Just so manipulative.

16:44 I can't wait for this storyline to be over.

16:56 Do we, I'm trying to think, do we see Lindsay again after this? I don't, I think this is the last time we see her.

17:03 We just looked it up. I guess it is her last episode, which honestly, what a shame. She deserved more.

17:09 She deserved more. And I really liked the actress too. So I didn't mind watching her.

17:15 No, she was great. And to this day, she's still a successful working actress.

17:19 Yeah, definitely.

17:21 What a shame that she went out on this note and we just dragged her character. I know. She needed more character development.

17:28 Justice for Lindsay.

17:29 Justice for Lindsay. That really should have been the title of this episode. it should have oh man is there anything else i feel like no.

17:41 Just the whole way that it wrapped up after that after the confrontation um when the town squared but then rory goes to dean's house.

17:52 Oh my god i was like you're really gonna show up to his house right and then.

17:57 He's like you bailed on me twice and she's like i didn't bail on you like Yes, you did. You just left.

18:04 I blacked that out because I was like, this scene is so stupid. You literally heard that there was a scene outside of their house because Suki spilled the beans. And now you're going to go knock on his door. And when he opens the door, he closes it behind him. It's like, clearly she's in the house.

18:17 And you went and knocked.

18:18 Like, come on.

18:19 Well, but that was his parents' house. So I don't think Lindsay was there.

18:24 Oh, you're right. It was.

18:25 Either way. Yeah, that wasn't the apartment. But still, like, I don't know.

18:29 She had a letter at this rate.

18:31 Yeah, like, what did she think he was.

18:33 Also, what was the conversation going to be? Like, what are we trying to get out of it again?

18:37 Exactly.

18:38 But also him now flipping it on her was actually, I was like, you know, the two of you are just messed up.

18:44 I know. They really are.

18:46 And by the way, we just got a note from Jackie. Rory and Dean break up for the final time in Season 5, Episode 8. We are on Episode 2. We have five more to go until we get there.

18:57 Yeah, and these next couple episodes for that storyline are super cringorama.

19:03 Yeah. Cringorama is a great word.

19:06 It's going to get bad.

19:09 That's going to be what this relationship is, cringorama. I mean, it really is. But yeah, I mean, I just don't understand why we had to go back to Dean. Like, I never thought about it that way because, I don't know, we watched it so many times and I was like, yeah, well, Dean comes back. And he technically never went away. Because even when she was with Jess, he was still... in the town, as we know. Yeah. But, like, why bring him back for this? And it, like, it still went nowhere because it's not like they get in a relationship. Yeah. But, I mean, I guess this leads to, this leads to Logan.

19:40 Right. Exactly. I was going to say, we meet Logan in the next episode. So, yeah. So, we're gonna start that whole conflict. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the rationale was for having it to be Dean because we've got we had just come back to like he's around. So yeah, it could have it could have been him or like you said, it could have been some rando from Yale. Like it really could have been anybody.

20:08 Why should have been Marty justice for Marty to know Marty? Yeah, he really should have been one of the boyfriends.

20:15 I liked Marty the first time. the first, like when we meet him again in season seven, I don't like that.

20:22 No, no, no, no.

20:24 First Marty. I liked him.

20:26 Also, it makes me confused that they had him in season four and then he comes back in seven with like a storyline. I'm like, okay. I mean, I guess if you think about it, like.

20:35 Because again, why are you recycling characters out of nowhere?

20:38 Like, yeah. And like, I, I do, I do remember in college, like I remember having a class with someone my freshman year and my senior year, like we hadn't seen each other in the middle. So like, I understand that that's a thing where you kind of run into the same people sometimes. But even that storyline with his girlfriend, it was just like, you should have given Marty a shot four seasons ago. Right.

21:00 Exactly.

21:00 You know, three seasons ago. Yeah.

21:03 So we've got more Marty coming. We've got, you know, the next couple of episodes.

21:09 We have Logan next episode.

21:10 We have Logan and Marty in the next episode.

21:13 Oh, that's right. That's right, because he's working at Logan.

21:15 That's how she meets Logan, yeah. That's right. Oh, my God, you're right.

21:18 I forgot. I mean, I knew it was happening. All right, let the games begin, I guess. I know.

21:23 There's a lot going on right now.

21:25 I know. I know. All right, so the next episode, when we all get back to Yale and everything, is Season 5, Episode 3, Written in the Stars, which, here comes Logan. I'm kind of excited, actually. It's been a while since I've watched this episode.

21:42 Yeah, I like this episode because it's Luke and Lorelai's date that they have. Yes.

21:49 Oh my god, and Asher dies.

21:51 Oh yeah, I forgot about Paris.

21:52 We haven't seen Paris in a couple episodes. Listen, if you added Paris into the mix of this Dean situation, I don't think we could handle it.

22:01 Yeah.

22:02 Actually, you know what? That's true. You know, to spice it up, I would have loved for her to tell Paris when it happened. Oh, yeah. It would have been really interesting if she ran to Paris. Not actual Paris, like Europe. Right, right.

22:18 The person.

22:19 The person, yeah.

22:21 That's true. I didn't even think about that. But yeah, that could have been.

22:23 Because Lane, I mean, Lane's just kind of there to listen, which I understand. We all have those friends who you just need to vent to or tell.

22:30 Yeah, yeah. But she can't really give feedback in that situation.

22:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, Paris would. Paris would put her in her place. That's what she would do.

22:40 Yeah.

22:41 He'd be like, you're married. Well, I don't know. Paris is also... Asher was single, wasn't he?

22:47 He had kids, so he was.

22:49 Was he divorced?

22:50 I think so. I don't know if they ever said.

22:54 Honestly, it would have been a great exchange to be like, if she goes to Paris and she's like, I slept with Dean, he's married. And she's like, I'm sleeping with Asher and he's married. Would have been good TV.

23:07 Yeah. I don't think he was, though, because he was going to take Paris to Oxford. So he wouldn't have done that if he was.

23:14 And also when the granddaughter showed up, like, I don't think she really questioned much.

23:17 Yeah.

23:17 Yeah.

23:18 That's true.

23:18 She's like, oh, just another one of his girlfriends.

23:21 Yeah. Well, all right. Well, we'll see you next week back at Yale.

23:24 Meeting adjourned.

23:53 Hey everybody, don't forget, follow us on Instagram at I am all in podcast and email us at Gilmore at I heart radio.com.