Inclusive Wealth Playbook: Elaine Rasmussen on AI, Leadership and Growth Mindset Strategies

0:00 Tenacity and courage of moving forward and walking forward despite fear, right? I think the third thing is understanding the math. And when I say the math, it's not always financial. It could be qualitative, it could be quantitative. And so I include relationships, understanding the math of relationships, knowing when you need to walk away and not saying that not walking away doesn't mean that that person's a bad person and that person is not aligned with the situation or the goals that you're working towards. And yeah, so I mean, there's I could, I could talk infinitum about this, but I think those are those are some of the things that I have seen of understanding the math of the financials, whatever the

0:39 situation where it's personal financials, financials, the business financials, but also the math of a leadership, the math of relationships and being able to have some critical analysis to be able to make quick relatively low information decisions to be able to propel you forward. Welcome to the King Dems Podcast, where we share the stories of extraordinary people and dissect hot, relevant topics that shape our world. From visionary leaders to trailblazing creatives, we uncover the mindset, strategy, and grit behind greatness. Whether it's business, culture, or personal growth, we ask the real questions.

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2:11 Ladies and gentlemen, you once again welcome to the Kingdom's broadcast. And today I have of me fighting out of Saint Paul's, Minnesota make welcome, Elaine, the greatest therapist on earth. Rasmussen, How are you, Elaine? I'm doing amazing. How are you today? I'm good, you know, your voice is actually therapeutic.

2:36 So anyone that needs anyone that needs therapy. I'm happy to hear that. I'm not a therapist though, let's be clear. You you, you are my therapist. I give you the title. Just run with it. OK, sounds good sounds. Good. Just because yeah, your voice is therapeutic, you haven't elevated to the position of greatest therapist on earth.

2:57 I'll take it. OK, please take care. You know, Johnny has actually been adventurous, you know, Wall Street insider to social impact architect. So how would you describe yourself, you know, as a person? And of course, you know, did the journey from Wall Street to becoming a champion for inclusive wealth, right?

3:22 And of course, what's the pivotal movement that actually LED you to shift your focus from traditional finance to social impact and democratising access to capital? Wow, that was a mouthful. So I'll try to, I'll try to weave all of that in. So I think the first part of your question is, you know, sort of what's been my journey.

3:47 And so I shared with you before we started that I really had this tumultuous beginning, right, coming from a very poor family, a lot of housing insecurity, a lot of drug addiction, alcohol. Addiction. And so, yeah, just trying to figure out how to navigate the world and growing up with very having a parent who had a very deficit mindset around money and having a grandparent who had a very abundance mindset around money.

4:16 But so I accidentally found myself in being a stock analyst and you're not necessarily directly related to money, but you're able to see patterns. That was another one of my gifts we talked about before the show gifts, right? One of my other gifts is I'm very good at seeing very, very quickly. And so I was able to leverage that in analysing stock and I was very good at it.

4:38 However, I didn't want to stay doing that. This was the 80s. I was working for a company named Shearson Lehman, which is partially responsible for the housing crisis. They are no longer around anymore, but I work for Shearson Lehman Brothers, right? I worked for Shearson Lehman Brothers in the 80s and I was the only woman working in the place where I worked that wasn't a secretary. Wow.

5:05 Yeah, right. Mild dominated technical space. Right so and I think there was only one other person of colour that worked there And so while I love what I did, I decided to not stay in the finance sector created a whole career working in marketing and communications had a 25 year career across a variety of different sectors. So working fashion, entertainment, manufacturing, higher education, but I did communications and then finally landed in philanthropy.

5:33 This gets to the year is the pivotal moment. So while I was working in philanthropy had been hearing about conversations about this thing called impact investing. And because I had this finance like foundation, I was one of the few people in philanthropy who could actually understand that language, what people were talking about.

5:50 But what I quickly realised was there's a disconnect between wealth holders and and people with capital and them saying that they wanted to have the impact and the stories that they would tell about the impact they were having. And what I took away from their stories was that you are doing like the bare minimum like, but but you're thinking that you are actually making some great critical impact.

6:14 But what I knew was garbage impact. It was garbage. It was garbage. And but how do you tell somebody who has wealth that their whole thesis is trash? It's hot. Right. I mean, and that's, this goes to one of my gifts, right? A lot of people who know me say, Elaine, you're the only person I know that can deliver bad news and people thank you for it. So I had a gift for telling people that they were garbage and, and then wanting to actually like, like change and like do something different.

6:46 So when I saw that there was this disconnect between the people who had capital or people had wealth and the impact that they were trying to have, I said, oh, this and then that the people who had these wonderful projects or had these wonderful investments who had no pathway to these people, they were also not prepared for the conversation, right?

7:03 And so I'm like, I had a lightning rod moment when I'm sitting in this. I was at I was in a pre conference. It was a meeting before a conference. And the conference was a breakdown of, you know, what is impact investing, what are programme related investing, you know, programme related investments. And as people were in this room, it was a small room, It's about maybe 40 people in this room.

7:25 Every single person was introducing themselves. My name is so and so from so and so organisation, I manage X millions or billions of dollars of assets under management. Now for me, coming out of philanthropy, I thought that was a very strange way for people to introduce themselves. I'd never heard people introducing themselves by how much capital that they manage. I was like, OK, while I'm listening to every person in this room introduced themselves, I'm in this room. I didn't manage any capital, right body experience of like, why am I in this room, right?

7:58 I don't have millions of dollars of assets under management, but OK, let me put that on a bike racket. I'll circle back to that existential crisis in a moment. So as everybody was introducing themselves and I'm doing this back of the envelope calculation of how much money is in this room, quickly running out of fingers and toes to calculate the number of zeros that are in this room.

8:21 And you know, I don't know if I can curse on your show, but like, what would this is like, like, like the bullshit stories of impact that they're telling us. I'm like, OK, OK. So after that convening, I, I sat down with a friend of mine and I said, I want to make sure I understand what, what, what they were talking about South.

8:41 And I, and I said to her, I said, oh, so the people have figured out how to not pay taxes on the money that they have have now figured out a way to make money on that money and still not pay taxes. And my friend looked me then the eye who had been doing this work for a long time. She said, you're absolutely right.

8:57 So I told you I'm very good at patterns like I can. I can catch a pattern really good. Technician. Right. So I said OK, because I'm also a marketing strategist. So I'm like, OK, now that I understand the what, right now the how is going to be easy for me. I'm like, OK, I understand The Who, I understand the how, I understand the what. I'm like, OK, there is an opportunity for me in this space to be able to close the gap between these universes, right? But when I, when I left that conference, I never understood when people said that they had a calling. I understood that like from a practical standpoint, right? From it, from an academic standpoint, understood people who said they had a call, but I,

9:35 I didn't understand that in my soul. Like I, I didn't have that lightning rod moment until that day. I'm like, I know what my purpose is on this earth. My purpose on this earth is to move money differently. That's my purpose. My sole reason for breathing in and out is to move money differently. That's what I'm here to do, right? And all these gifts that I've acquired naturally as well as collectively, accumulatively, is to move money differently, to get people to move money, but also to get people who don't have money or have money detachment disorder, which is what I like to call it, for them to think differently about money, but to educate people to move money differently. That is my goal and that is my

10:20 purpose. And so that was the lightning rod moment of getting people to think people and institutions to think differently. Hence like my my podcast, do different better. But that has been now my life mantra is to do different better always and in always. So it not only personally, but in all the ways, so financially, spiritually, mentally, physically do different better, right? Different isn't always better, but better is always different, right?

10:53 And so I truly, truly, truly believe that. And so if we believe that, then if we want to want different outcomes, it requires A fundamental shift within us full stop to be able to do that. Otherwise, we're just moving pieces around the chess board, right? We're not really moving anything forward.

11:12 We're just we're playing checkers and not really playing. Chess. He, he read my mind on my mind. I was like, OK, you playing chess, some other people playing checkers, and of course some other people are not even on the board at all. No, yeah, and they don't want to be. That's the crazy part, right?

11:27 So that's the other part of this of I lead a women's wealth wisdom group. And one of the things that I ask the women to reframe, right? Because I don't give advice, I'm saying I'm going to invite you to think about this differently. They're like, well, I'm going to do this in the future. I'm going to think about where my bank, where I bank, even though I'm currently banking in an organisation that is investing against my own values, right?

11:51 I'm going to do that at some time in the future. And I said, OK, well, let me, let me invite you to think about something. That organisation is continuing to use your money to work not only against your interest, but your children's interest. And when I said that to her, well, I did not give her any advice.

12:07 When I said that to her, she's like, once I talked about her children because her children's bank accounts were at this bank as well. Her back straightened up and I said, and the fact that they're taking that money and they are leveraging it 10 times because that's what a bank can do if they're going to take your dollar and they're going to leverage it. So that means they are making 10X off of your money and your children's money because you are finding it that it is too much work or it's something you want to do in the future. And so that once again just completely changed her whole entire mindset around, I got to do this this weekend. Like I need to take my money out of this bank. I said OK, right?

12:47 And so my personal going back to like, so what's my personal goal? My personal goal is to move $500 billion, right? To move differently. That's like my life, my lifetime goal. You move some of it my way and move it to my company. I'm trying to get it to my company. I'm trying to get it to my company.

13:08 Then, then I'll get it. To your eyes. So I'm not, I'm not greedy, I just need. Very, a little bit, a little bit. That's a drop. You're in line. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta place in line for you. It's all right. Wow, thank you very much. Love, love, appreciation and respect. Oh, I'm not going to forget. I'm not going to forget.

13:25 I'm actually very curious about how you introduce yourself in that meeting. So I'm trying to remember. That's a good question. So no one's ever asking me. I'm, I'm very cheeky. So I probably said I have no assets under management. But I probably said something very like very cheeky. And just like you know, I'm Elaine Rasmussen from so and so and so and so and I have no assets under management. Now I feel I now like you or a fewer version of myself because so many times people have told me, hey, Adi, you're so cheeky and a girl.

14:01 I'm like, OK, baby, I, I should, I should create a frame somewhere and say cheeky because I, I love to play, you know, with words and I love being authentic. So being an authentic person who is artistically inclined and scientifically inclined, it makes you to be able to have this accelerated thinking of making sense with witty words and sleeping yourself. Why I went into marketing, right, That's why so I made the decision to go into marketing because I wanted to use both sides of my brain I wanted to use the analytical side, which is market research, market analysis, right consumer behaviour, but I also love to create myself. I love creating campaigns.

14:46 I love creating expression. I love and I tell people I'm in the, when I was doing marketing full time, I'm like, I'm in the, I'm in the word business. Like marketing is all about navigating. And I think if you, if you have any job where words are a core element of your job, you can't help but have a sense of a very deep understanding of words.

15:08 And which then you need to have to be a comic, right? To be a comedian, you have to have a deep understanding of words. To be a songwriter, you have, you need to have a very deep appreciation and expansive knowledge of words. I think marketing is up there, right, because you work with words all the time, every day.

15:24 That is the basis, right? Because the words that you choose count, right? They are distinct meanings behind different words. And regardless of what the dialect or the context is, you need to understand that like what's cheeky in in England versus what's cheeky like what is even that word cheeky mean and then United States contact.

15:43 So being able to have that deep love, understanding, I think makes us and even as a podcaster, right? Makes us more purposeful and intentional about everything that comes out of our, whether it's written or whether it's verbal. We are very thoughtful and mindful about the construct of the word that we select to create a very distinct picture that we want people to walk away from after they've had an encounter with us.

16:06 Exactly. And of course, being wheaty with it and being artistic or poetic with it actually makes it sinking deeper. And I met a friend recently, shout out to cheater, a Nigerian like myself. And then she, she's like these things you're telling me, did you actually rehearse them before? And I'm like, excuse me, I'm a wordsmith.

16:26 I am a wordsmith. You know, that's a thing. You can pick up anything and run the words through, run rhymes with it and still makes sense. But I don't know how you were able to, would I say, build your own vocabulary? Because I was a nerd growing up. I did not watch movies or watch TVI pretty much was reading a lot.

16:51 Philosophy, psychology, anthropology, sociology. And of course, I think when I was probably like 5678, I used to just read the Oxford English Dictionary. So. Oh wow. OK. Like getting the word for. Me, yeah, for me it was really about it was a couple of things. So one, I was a big reader as well, but that was also because I was an introvert. So and and I because of my home situation, reading was a form of escape, right.

17:21 So I see I was very much AI was a big reader. But the other thing that I think is very distinct part from my experiences, I loved comedians. Like from a very early age, I would watch comedians. Yeah, and you see the way the string, the string, the words together, right, the words. Together. I was very, I was in awe.

17:43 Like I remember watching Chris Rock when he was 18 on on like he got like his first spot on Tvi remember because we had just gotten a colour television. We hadn't had a colour television before. So to be able to see Chris Rock at 18 and he was so masterful. But money comics are masterful with words. And I was just like, wow.

18:05 And the other thing that I loved was we we had a very limited access to TV. And so I watched a lot of old movies and watching old movies was another like I felt some of the language in the movie was lyrical. And I love to love. I heard music when I would hear like people talking and I wanted to imitate that.

18:27 So that those three things, I think just like, and I watched a lot of public television, right. So, but that's all we were allowed to watch as as a kid, I wasn't allowed to watch a lot of the other stuff. So it was a lot of public television. And, and so I remember watching like Masterpiece Theatre. And so there are a lot of British television on public television in the United States.

18:47 So I watched a lot of British television. I remember one of the things that I actually my, my son to this day, who's 28, he loves keeping up appearances. He loves what was the other show we used to watch? There were two British like shows, I think from the 80s that was on in the 90s. And my, my son, he watched out a lot. And to this day it's one of his favourite show. As time goes by.

19:10 I think it was as time goes by and keeping up appearances to this day two of his like favourite shows. Yeah, you guys. Come see you. Guys should come see us in London, come pay some homemades, you know? Absolutely, absolutely. But you know, having that as a backdrop and then also going to private school. So while even through all that tumultuous like background at home, my mom having the foresight and the energy to put me and my brother through Catholic school. So there was this natural thing around education, learning, reading, but then also coupled with like getting access to wit at a very young age, right, of watching comedy on the regular. It was that I think all of that informs how I engage with people and getting people maybe to not

19:57 to go through things maybe from the side as opposed to going to things straight on. Because you know, like your vocabulary is like, it's like a breeze of war. It's like a database like you need, you need that very massive database. If you do not have that database, it's it's going to be hard for you, no matter how talented you are, in order to become a wordsmith.

20:19 Because to be a wordsmith, you need to have a large database of words in your head to be able to string together. And even not just being a wordsmith, but to be able to communicate your thoughts and feelings, like if you're sitting in a boardroom or you're sitting in a team meeting right at work and you want to, you want to articulate and persuade your colleagues to the brilliant idea that you have.

20:45 You have to have some master of words so that they can see what it is you see. And so I think it's just a valuable tool, particularly for women to have a strong vocabulary to be. Able why? Why women? I keep hearing women empowerment but no men empowerment. Why? Well. Because I'll tell you why.

21:07 Because men already take up the space, and they take up the space whether they deserve it or not, right? So right, I don't believe. That. You want me to give you an example? Give me an example please. Thank. You, I'll give you an example and I don't want to hurt your feelings because I appreciate you and love you for what you're doing. But when we did our when we were on our pre interview call, I don't know if you realise that you spoke for a whole 30 minutes and you didn't ask me one question. Absolutely.

21:40 I did tell you a lot of things, right? But then I told you and you don't know why I did not ask you a question, right? I give you an open-ended, you know, opportunity to speak about yourself and, and and. Not until. Not until 30 minutes. Not until it was 30 minutes in. I was watching the clock. You spoke about yourself for 30 minutes.

22:04 You did not ask me a question. You did not really. You gave me an opening to affirm what you said. You did not ask me about me. You. You asked me a question to affirm what you had already shared with me did not ask, right? So that's a very so So you took up a lot of space and I now I let you because I wanted to see how long you were going to go.

22:26 And I gave you 6060 minutes on the podcast to talk about yourself, because if you talk about yourself outside, well, we're going to talk about inside. And so that's why women need to take up more space, because the rationale you just gave is the rationale that men get for taking it. Women, you know, women are.

22:43 Taking more space? I took 30 minutes. You're taking 60 minutes. Who? Who's got more space? You invited me here. You invited me, right? That is not the same. You invited me here. So you're saying. So you're saying it's OK that you took up a whole bunch of time and that you're giving me space when you asked me here, I didn't ask to be here. You asked me to be here.

23:05 Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's be fair. Let's refer to each other, right? Let's be fair. And of course there's the man woman argument right here. Of course. Is that 90 minutes now? OK, yeah, 90 minutes, right? The man takes 30 minutes and the woman is actually given 60 minutes. And yet. But I'm not getting 60 minutes.

23:27 Yet the woman is completely in that of the 60 minutes. So this is gaslighting. So. So then let me explain to you how you just gas lit me and this is what men do, right? OK. 1st. OK, let's talk about it, right? I'm happy, yeah. OK, so you're comparing 2 completely different contexts that have nothing to do with one another.

23:51 You have invited me on your show to talk about me. I know right? That is a very different thing. Then you and I are spending 30 minutes to get to know one another so we both feel comfortable with the hour that we're going to spend together. How can I get comfortable in the 30 minutes that we're supposed to?

24:10 A conversation is a for two people, not a monologue is for one person. You did not get to know me because we spent the 1st 30 minutes just talking about you. So by the time we get on the show you don't really know anything about me because we just talked about you. So you are comparing 2 completely different things that have nothing to do with one another.

24:31 And so This is why we need we need both things right? I think men, I'm not saying I'm. Do I get a chance for your report? Let me then hold on. Let me finish. See. You're not See. You've just interrupted me. You. Just interrupted me. You just interrupted me. You just interrupted me. You didn't even. You didn't even let me finish my thought. You didn't even let me.

24:53 Finish my thought before you. Wanted to defend yourself, right? You didn't even let me finish my thought because you felt the need that you needed to defend yourself. I know and if you right, so if you had let me finish, I would have said this isn't about this isn't about women getting more time, right?

25:11 That's not the point of my comment. My comment is that if you are having a conversation, one I love when I do a facilitation. I do facilitations with with companies all the time and I there's a term that I use. Why am I talking and why am I not talking right? Sometimes we take up a more space. We don't realise it. We are humans, especially extroverts. We take up more space.

25:39 When you take up more space and you don't give space, you are actually losing out on the opportunity of somebody else's genius to actually wash over you when you take up all the space, right? Absolutely. And when you are not talking, you are denying the room of the genius you have to bring to the room.

25:58 And everybody does have genius to bring to the room. So while it sometimes sits in the context of a male female, this isn't necessarily a gender thing, but it does show up. It has a predominance of like men could listen better and women can speak up more. Not to not to say that that men should not talk or men should talk less.

26:21 My point is men should listen more. That's a very. Different thing. Absolutely. Therefore, language skills, Listening, speaking, writing, reading. Yeah. And people don't take listening seriously. I love. I love being an active listener. Right. And it's a very, very important skill to master. The very, very important. But, you know, talk talking about you. I did my research, you know, once you. I love your profile.

26:47 I appreciate what you do. But you know, me doing that research about you and, you know, digging into you, you know, and creating specially created questions for you shows how much appreciate you appreciate your profile right as a person. However, in the podcasting space, most podcasts are just surface level and their guests do not even know anything about what they do, right?

27:12 So for me, when you, when we started the interaction, you're like, oh, this two hours. I don't think I have up to two hours to you know of content. And then I was like, no, the first 30 minutes typically, you know, is a getting to know each other phase, right? I know about what you do already, right? But what you most likely know about me is being a podcaster. But then there's a lot to me, and if you get to know me better as a person, you got to feel comfortable speaking with me, not just from a formal perspective, but you're speaking to the personality, to the person, you know, sharing things we have in common, right?

27:53 You have not researched me, you know invited. How do you know that you didn't ask me? You haven't asked me by research here. OK, So what do you I? Did actually I actually did research here. Talk to me. Tell me. Tell. Let's go. But this goes back to my point. This goes back to me. Tell me, what do you know about me? As opposed to starting with a question of starting with a question of like, hey, did you do some research? You let me tell you, you asked in your inner in your the e-mail communication, you asked me to go and research you. So I'm like, OK, if somebody's asking me to go and do a little bit of research, you know, went listened to, I listened to multiple of your episodes.

28:31 I. Did not see a response on it. Well, because I, I, I, I don't think it's meaningful or relevant at this point, right? I think that. So for me, once again, I feel like that's it, that's a, that's a mechanism by which to discount what I'm saying, right? And so. No, it's not to discount what you're saying, to be honest, right?

28:52 I'm an auditor and we only say something if it wasn't documented, it wasn't done. He gets it. So I reach out to you. I say, OK, this is a communication. If I don't get response on something, I don't bother. Like it means probably the person did not have the time. I've had over 100 episodes, right? And over time, more often than not, most people don't do that research on me.

29:15 I do the research on that. Right. And I get that, but I think you should always, I come from a place of inquiry. So my, my, my philosophy is I would have started the conversation not from an assumption, but say, hey, did you get an opportunity to research me? Now you're laying the groundwork for me to now go into a monologue about myself.

29:36 It's like, I understand maybe you didn't have time, maybe whatever the case, like I don't even need a reason why you didn't do it, but I'm like, I'm going to start from a place of inquiry and not from a place of a baseline assumption that you didn't do any research on me, right? And for me it doesn't even and it doesn't as my personal feeling. It doesn't even matter because I know how to navigate a conversation, regardless of whether you've done research on me.

30:00 We're gonna have a good time. We're gonna have a great time because we're gonna have a great time. So. And I could tell. And of course, we are having a great time. We are having a great time. We are. Having a great time we're. Having an amazing time, Yeah. And you know the beautiful. Thing. It'll be really interesting to hear what your your listeners say. Yeah, I'm telling you.

30:18 And the beautiful thing about this back and forth is that it is we are logo heads, but we are still respectful to each other. And yeah, it's something that well. And this is another value, like one of my values is no one deserves to lose their dignity, right? So if that's a baseline core value that I have, that no one deserves to lose their dignity, we can agree to disagree and we can still go out and have a cocktail, right?

30:47 We can go out. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, I've said this on the part so many times. My core values, kindness, respect, hospitality, those are my core values. That's what I stand for. That's what I leave for. You know, it's, it's very essential to be respectful to people, to the kinds of people and to be hospitable, you know, and you know, I'm quite curious.

31:07 You saying you talk into a bit of research about me? I'm quite curious to to find out what you found out so. Well, I found out, I ironically found out a lot of what you shared, right? So I don't, I can't offer anything different than what you shared with me prior. You know, before we started recording, you know, I wouldn't say that I spent hours, right? But I, you know, I listened to a number of your podcasts. I wanted to understand the flow of how, you know, once again, what's the pattern of how you associate with your guests. I'm like, OK, now I have a good understanding of what our our back and forth is going to be.

31:44 I, you know, obviously could see that, you know, that you're, you migrated to, to the UK, but you know, once again, I, I wouldn't say that I know more about you than what you've already shared with me. That was high level. I, I kind of hit some of those high points already because they're public information, right?

32:07 But, you know, and, and I think what I would have, I really appreciate you sharing with me kind of your what's going on with you privately. And so, you know, that gave me a little bit more than just what I could find, you know, on the Internet. Yeah, on the Internet, right? Yeah, Yeah. And it's always good to connect with people you know, Yeah, on a private basis, on a.

32:29 Heart level. On a heart level, Yeah, right. Heart to heart basis, yeah. Yeah, cuz we're at the end of the day, we're all humans and even I find that especially in the US political climate and we're so on polarised at the end of the day, everybody wants to make sure their families are taken care of. Everybody wants to get paid well for their work, everybody. And even though some people use, you know, some abusive tactics to, to exclude others, it's really all coming from that place, right.

33:02 So if we can, we can get to some kind of human. I think you talked about this before the show of see each other's humanity. We need more of that. And I think we've forgotten how to disagree, right? And that disagreeing does not necessarily mean that your perspective is worthless, right? And that two things can be true at the same time. My perspective and your perspective can both be true, but we and 1 does not is not mutually exclusive of the other, right?

33:37 Absolutely. Sometimes there are no right answers and no wrong answers. Right, right. But my experience is it's different. We can we can go to a concert, we can go to the same concert and have two very bit different experiences based. On. Internal or external things? You should watch episode 100 of my podcast OK Joanne Diaz.

34:01 It's on customer experience, customer service. And then he said something along the same lines of what you're saying, like two different people go to the same restaurant and eat the same food, have the same service, but we'll come out with different customer experiences, same customer service, different customer experiences.

34:25 Why? Because human beings are experiencing different emotions, different life circumstances at the same time, right? So the experiences, it's all as different. Showed up at the restaurant with different like they showed up at the restaurant from a different place. One person may have had a terrible day, they're just got fired their their partner left them right and another person may have gotten a promotion right. So they're showing up before they even experienced anything at the restaurant from a completely different mental space which is now going to colour their experience. Absolutely.

35:04 You know, one thing I appreciate about, you know, what you've said previously is the fact that you are very, when I say gifted at identifying patterns. And that's, that's a hallmark of an analyst, you know, but we, we share a lot in common, you know, as human beings. Unfortunately, the divider is probably the gender. And I would, and I would say, and I would say embrace. I think, I think people, I think people would say, I think people would say of me like I definitely learn more masculine. So.

35:43 I don't. I don't think I need anymore. I think I'm good. Oh, probably man. I don't, let me say. But you know some people. Will say you're going to you're going to be cancelled. I'm Sir, you better be careful. You are going to be cancelled. Women are going to come for your neck. Let let, let us cancel. Cancel.

36:01 Listen, I'm a big fan. I can get behind that movement. Let us cancel cancel culture but. I'm behind that I I want to cancel cancel. Culture. All I got to say, OK, you are, I'm a millennial. I guess you are Generation XX. Yeah. Yeah, it's an X. The generational wars or what's happening? I feel like I'm the I'm the I'm the diplomat between X and Gen Z. OK.

36:29 Yeah. Here's my thought. I think I even think within millennials, there's two kinds of millennials, right? There's the older millennials that are, have a lot of Gen X in them, a lot of Gen X DNA, right? And then there's the, the, the, the millennials that are closer to the Xennials, right? So you've got 2 factions, right?

36:54 But what I have found is I don't know, you may personally be a liaison, a bridge builder. I don't know that I would say that your generation is a bridge builder. My experience is that, and I'm not judging like this isn't a judgement, this is just an observation. Generation X was never allowed to focus or centre themselves.

37:26 I think the the things that we have lived through and they've experienced gave it an opportunity and created a sense of wealth was a big W right now, maybe not individual wealth, but wealth with a big economic wealth that allowed millennials to be hyper focused on themselves. And what I don't think millennials understand are two things on that because we may not have grown up in the computer age that we don't have anything to offer, which is wrong. Why?

38:06 Why so I'll give you an example. So I remember I had to learn programming. That was my four way into like technology. I did not see a computer until I was 17. And the only reason why I saw a computer at 17 is because my high school was on a college campus. Only college campuses because computers are still too expensive to like have at your home, right? So large institutions, right?

38:42 So as a result, I learned to code. In learning to code as a generation, many of us had to learn. In a theoretical way. You have a set of critical thinking skills that I often do not see in millennials. The fact that millennials often can't make change. Like if I give you a dot like you say, hey, the bill is $22.00 and and eight cents.

39:07 Like I can make change in my head, right? Many millennials cannot make change. Like literally cannot make change, right? No, not me. Right. I'm like. OK, I guess I'm meet millennial. By the way, I'm 33, born in 19. 90 You're in the middle, right? So I'm right in the middle, you know? Right. And what I find is even with people that I hired to work for me, there has been a generational loss of critical thinking, like how to think out through a problem. How do you think?

39:40 That's actually true. That is true. That is true. I've said this on the podcast before that it's it's really sad that we are at the height of the age of artificial intelligence, but we are also at the height of the age of human foolishness. Yes, and and you can't like even the natural evolution of solving a problem or even the act of like, what might be the questions I need to ask to solve this problem and being the presumption of like, well, I'm not an expert. Well, like who's an expert?

40:10 Like who's an expert in life? No one is an expert in life. Like ask the next natural question, but they actually don't know what the next natural question is because the hyper dependence on going to Google. The other side of that is that Google. Has all the answers. Google, even AI has a framework. It has a framework that still needs inquiry. Right?

40:31 So I was literally on, I was on a call last night and I said listen, AI still hallucinates. It is a high degree of hallucination. You must critically analyse what you received from AI because it is a high degree of hallucination. Be careful. Be careful how you talk about AI because you're. Listen, I ask my AI please and thank you all the time.

40:54 The robots are going to be my friend. Are you sure? OK. Listen, my my robot, my robots are going to love me. I'm very kind to my AI agent. If you say so, do do, do, do, do you know? Do you know what my initials are? Your initials? The ones other than what's on your name? Do you have other initials? So check OK my name is Attimola first name, middle name is Ethim Emma and my initials are AI.

41:27 AIO. I, you know, I'll just tell people. That's a stretch, my friend. Be. Careful, be careful what you say about AI, because I am AI, you know my parents are the studio assignment, right? And of course, what AI are you talking about? Of course, artificial intelligence, you could be talking about a team or AC member, or you could be talking about, wait for it, artificial insemination. So.

41:55 Well, seeing that we that was not part of our previous conversation, I don't think we're talking about that. That was, you know, Many thanks to an Australian guest on my show, Andy, Andy IDE. So he actually has this AI tool for horses, right? And he sponsors the horse racing in Australia. You know, he was like, be careful what artificial, what AI you're always talking about because it could be artificial in semination.

42:26 And of course, I've I've learned to use that, that line on, on people like you that just keep using AIAIAI. Are you talking about me? You said what AI gave you. I did not give you anything. But that we weren't talking about any of those things. We were talking about technology. So the natural presumption would be I'd be talking about artificial intelligence.

42:46 Why? Why are you presuming about me? Because that's what we were talking about. The previous sentence was about technology. Literally this. Is a problem millennials have with Jet X? No, you. What you're saying is ridiculous. It doesn't. Yes it is. That is the aim to be ridiculous, right? Of course it is going to be a joke.

43:12 We don't have time for this. We don't have time for this. There's no. We do have time for that. You know these, there's these. Are the generations but you all you all don't understand. I think this is to your point. This is the other difference, right? Like we were, we were very brought up about time and place.

43:30 There is a time and place for everything. It's in the Bible. There's a time and place for everything. Let's go to Let's go to the Bible. Let us go to the Bible. Let me finish. Y'all, and I'm being hyperbolic right? But you all believe that anytime's a great time and it's not anytime's. That, that is Ecclesiastes, right?

43:50 Yeah. That's the time for everything under the sun. Yeah, I think Ecclesiastes. Chapter 3 and you all think anytime is a great time and it's like it's not the anytime is not a great time to have a breakdown. Like we need you to schedule your breakdown. OK. We've scheduled our breakdown, so. Like do you do? Do you want to know my favourite Bible verse? Sure.

44:13 Do you really want to know it? Philippines Chapter. Four, it's your show, so can you tell me whether you whether I want to or not? Philippines Philippines Chapter 4 verse 13 I can do all things through crisis strengthens me. Perfect. That fits. That's on brand. Yeah. And you know, talking about the logical reasoning you're talking about, right, The problem solving skills.

44:37 I think I did tell you about the economy students conference that I sponsored in Nigeria. And one of the main reasons why I did that was to help the younger generation, apparently the Gen Z, right, to improve their problem solving skills, critical thinking, critical analysis, logical reasoning. And you know, the solution mindset, you know, it goes back to what you were complaining about.

45:07 That is a lot of people do not have a solution oriented mindset in this age and time. You know, it's, it's sad, but it's, it's, it's just a reality, right? But you know, taking the generations downward, you are my parents generation. My parents are Gen X, right? We don't see eye to eye on so many things, right?

45:30 You guys are way more serious than us millennials. And of course, you know I'm a meet millennial. Right. I think there's two camps of Gen Xers. I think they're the ones that are super serious and I agree with you. Yeah, I think you guys are way too serious. Wait, I think I'm in the other camp, right?

45:47 No, no, you are my. Parents Camp. You are my hold on so that there's another. You're collaborators. I think there's another camp at Gen Xers. They're just like millennials. There's two camps. I think that there's two camps with with Gen actors. I think they're the one. I think also being there's a different context with immigrants, right? If you are immigrating, you have to be serious because it is a serious thing to go to a place that is not your home. Absolutely, absolutely.

46:16 And go to a place that maybe doesn't want you there to go to a place that you know is going to that is not set up for you to be successful, right. So I think there's, there's that piece of it. I think so. So I, I want to, I want to give your parents grace because that is a very different thing that I'm not sure it has anything to do with generation, right. The other part of that is, and I can only speak in an American context, right?

46:45 There are Gen Xers such as myself. I think work is serious, but I can have fun at work, but work is serious. But I also, I'm a fool. Like my friends like know that like I just told somebody the other day I said, you know, they're like, well, do you care about this? And oh, well, I'm just worried about this. I said, listen, I have no pockets for the fucks. I don't have to give.

47:07 Like I don't have, I do not like, I don't care. Like I don't care there. There's so many things. I don't care what people think about me. I don't care about people talking about me behind my back. I don't care if you don't like me. I don't care like right. So I think and, and, and part of that was, you know, I saw this meme on Instagram, which I think embodies, it's embodies sort of the Gen X.

47:32 It's like if you didn't like somebody, if you wanted to tell somebody off, you couldn't just type in a type or in a, in a keyboard and walk away. You had to call them on the phone. You had to say what you wanted to say and and. Organic conversations. Organic conversations you. Know, right, you couldn't just like like hide and run, right, like hide behind a keyboard and never have to space that person again, right?

47:55 So if you wanted to cuss somebody out, you had to cuss somebody out in their face, right? There's a there's, there's a resilience that comes from having right. Tell me to my faith. Right. There's a resilience that comes out of having to do that, having a regular habit of having to do that, that I also. Confidence and character building. Right.

48:16 So, so be able to and to not have someone else sway your conviction, right? I find that millennials often are easily, their convictions are easily swayed, right? Really. How about Gen Z? How about Gen? ZI think they're so emotionally sensitive they can't even bring themselves to get that far to what to think about right? We've, we've, we've sheltered them from so much or they haven't had to experience.

48:52 They, they, they've been, they've been sheltered, right? I mean, I think about, I think about the things that I have seen in my lifetime. And that's not to say that it's any better or worse than millennials or zennials, right? I know personally for me, like I've been through multiple devastating earthquakes. I have been through Mount Saint Helens. I remember waking up as a young person in California. So Mount Saint Helen was in Washington. That's two states north of where I lived and ash coming down and having our cars covered in ash from a volcano that went off in a 2.

49:29 State. Right. For weeks, ash falling on the cars, falling in the streets, falling everywhere, being in major earthquakes were actually where my high school was a a wall fell on a human being from as a result of the earthquake. Wow, the Sylmar earthquake, which was a huge earthquake that happened when I was like 3 years old, four years old then having this watching on television, live television. The space shuttle blowing up as like 1/3 grader, right? Very similar to the young people who had to watch 911. But we watched the difference between 9/11 is you saw footage. We saw the spaceship explode in real time because every school had it on to watch the space shuttle go up. We literally watched it happen

50:17 in real time. That's crazy, right? Then we have, you know, obviously 9 like we've just had to see an experience a lot of things in an era where expressing feelings is not OK. Your generation, it was like all about express yourself, tell how you're feeling. We weren't, we weren't allowed to have feelings even when you go into the workplace, right? Like feelings were not a thing.

50:43 No one gave a shit about your feelings, even your parents. I don't know if it's a good thing. I think everything and I think, right, Right. Exactly. And I don't know that that's good, right? Because it always like I think about our, our feelings and our trauma is like a balloon. So what happens if you have a balloon and you squeeze it, right? It pops out on another way.

51:02 So it never goes away, right? But something is going to happen that's going to squeeze it and it's going to pop out sideways, right. So I don't know that we did it right either. I'm not, I'm not saying that Gen X has figured it out, but I think there needs to be a healthier balance. Like I'll give you, I'll tell you another thing like a healthier balance.

51:23 Well, I don't know if you guys have got it figured out either, but here's what I will say. I will just tell you going back to your point about my generation being serious, like, so I joke, but I'm not joking. So I tell, I tell, I tell my, I tell my colleagues, especially colleagues that are responsible for hiring. I say, listen, you know what?

51:42 I, I want to tell people who I hire or people who work in my office, you know, your generations, like I want to bring my whole self to work. I said, I don't want your whole self to work. And I said, I guarantee you, you don't want me to bring my whole self to work because me bringing my whole self to work, I'm going to hurt all your feelings.

51:57 I'm going to hope I'm going to hurt every single one of your feelings. So you don't want me to bring my whole self to work. And I don't want you to bring your whole self to work. I want you to bring the part to, to, I want you to bring the parts of yourself to work that want to work. That's it.

52:12 I don't want the other part. You see millennials, millennials are the best, you know, of course, you know, for me, I strongly believe in balance, you know, do not be extreme. It's just like the pH to be. Extreme. Yeah, it's it's like the pH go, don't be too acidic, don't be too alkaline. Find a place in the middle.

52:33 I remember when I joined PwC in 2018, my very first formal meeting. I think during the training or something, you know, accountants in your generation always had to put on a suit and a tie. I do wear panties. I hate, I hate ties. And I remember I was thinking about it like, well, I have to work with an accountant firm now. I need to force myself to stop putting on the ties. And the first day they say that ties are no longer compulsory. I was so happy.

53:05 I was happy. But, but here's but can I share something with you? I want to share something with you. What I find with your generation is that there's no appreciation of what had to happen to get there, right? What? Happened unfortunately. People like me appreciate it. Of course there are people that are pace setters, right?

53:29 Setters, pathfinders. And that is, you know, not even your generation, the baby boomers. Yeah, it's like, I mean, like I said, I had to wear pantyhose. Women had to wear pantyhose, you know, awful pant there. It's far worse than a tie. Just think about you're having to wear something and your genitals are in this very tight cavern all day long, right. So the young women who come in to my, you know, who come into the workplace And it was like, do you understand? Like, what had to happen for you to now show up without a bra at work, which I don't want to see.

54:10 I mean, yeah, so. So some, some people take it too far now. Now you're giving, Now you're giving me trauma. Now you are giving me your legit legitimately trigger. Warning Trigger warning Trigger warning. Why? Why you're giving me trauma? Like I have seen things in my days. Like, that's why I tell people I feel like I'm in a sweet sport. I'm not too old and I'm not too young. Like I'm just, you know, in the middle. Yeah, I clocked 33 in April and I said wow, Jesus Christ, you know, finished this mission at the age of 33, and I feel I just started my own mission at 33.

54:52 Well, you need that foundation, right? You needed the foundation. And now you've been given, you've been giving, given the kit, and now you should be able to go forth and prosper, right? So yeah. Amen. Amen to that. Some people go too far. I have, I'm not gonna mention the workplace, but I've been in a workplace where, you know, they were encouraging business casual, you know, dress for your day, be free, be comfortable. And I never.

55:19 Never. So I saw at some point setting individuals putting on sleepers and you know. Absolutely not. You know what? I. Told the workplace I'm. Not. It's it's not acceptable. I tell people who come to work for me, I say, listen, colonisation is real and it's in in effect here in this office. The patriarchy is real, and it's at work in this office.

55:42 Oh and as I I say here, colonise modern day coloniser. I'm like because I I I people to your point take it too far and so I said it should not matter you it. If that bothers you then this isn't the place for you to work. If wearing a bra is a problem then this is not a place for you work. You have the freedom to choose where you work 100% and you should be able to go to work without a bra on. It just won't be here.

56:15 I absolutely believe that you should be able to go to work without a bra. It just won't be here. I absolutely believe if you want to come wear sleepers to work, you should absolutely be able to do that. It just won't be here. And you don't get to tell me how what a terrible person I am because I'm dictating how I want you to address that represents me.

56:34 So I think this is where good cop, bad cop works. I feel like yourself and myself, if we, you know, had a company together, we'll do well because you, you are the bad cop. And of course, I'm the good cop. So we have different approaches. So I left the big four accounting firms as an assistant manager, and I think that's the most difficult job.

56:59 Middle management is horrible I feel like. Management is. Horrible. Bad for middle managers. It's a horrible. It's it's horrible. It's horrible because you have to be essentially a people pleaser and I am, well, you. Have to do all The Dirty work that management doesn't want to do. Then you're going to take all the crap. From the employees.

57:19 Yes, exactly right. And you need to coordinate them efficiently, keyword efficiently. So for me it's horrible in terms in terms of my management style if I had somebody doing that basically I, I lead by example. I love, I love collaborative leadership and I would I say promote setiveness over aggressiveness, right?

57:48 So basically I'll tell you, you're a professional and you have professional code of ethics, right? Part of your code of ethics is professional behaviour, right? You have to express professionalism. Like I respect you and I appreciate how far you've come in your carpier and you know, you should actually hold yourself to set in, you know, a standard and this is beneath you, this is below you. You shouldn't do this, right?

58:20 So you should respect yourself and you know, respect what you stand for. You should actually do better because you know, much is very much expected of you because you have got great potentials and you shouldn't do this to yourself. So that way people feel more respected and like, oh, they're holding me to.

58:39 I agree with you, but I think there's two different contexts. One, you're coming at it from a manager perspective, I'm coming at it from ACEO perspective. Yeah, from, from. My company, right, I'm, I'm, I'm the CEO, but but I also find that and I think it's different in a corporate setting. Like I think you can say what you just said and it lands.

58:59 I think anything outside of a corporate setting, what I have found, what my experience has been and my colleagues have experienced, it's like they don't even know what professional is like their notion of professional. They think, they think what they're doing is professional. And then and you and, and, and it's, and it might be if you're a startup, if you're working at Google, yes, you can come in flip flops. This is not Google.

59:23 And particularly if you're working for a woman of colour, right? I don't have the luxury to come into a meeting with my sleeper on, right? Otherwise all of this goes away. There won't be any paychecks for anybody. And understanding who you work for and how you are representing them in the context of which you're representing them, right? So working for a black woman in AUS context, working in finance, yes, the bar is higher and the expectation is different than if we are doing a black woman owned startup, right? Those are two completely different context and I need you to understand that and make a choice if do you want to do that.

1:00:01 Because if you don't want to do that, that is fine. That is a choice. I am not here to take away a choice. But if you don't want to do that, then this is not the place for you. No matter how much you love the job, no matter how much you love working for me, no matter how much you anticipate learning from me, I need you to show up in this way.

1:00:17 Because it is my reputation on the line and I don't get a second bite at the apple. And if you can't understand that because you're placing yourself in the centre, then you there is not a place for you to work here. That does that. That never works with Gen Z. No, and that's and. I've worked. I've worked with a lot of them. And no.

1:00:38 And, and that's and that's the thing. But here's the thing that I tell Gen Z right now, in this moment, unless you are going to start your own business, you are going to work for a Gen Xer. So you can either get on board or start your own business, which is fine, right? Or work for another Gen ZR or work for an work for a millennial. Because here's the thing, I don't. They they they work with millennials like me. And, and that's fine, right?

1:01:02 And that, and I, that's why I say, and like I said, if you're not willing to come up to this standard, because also here's the thing, the stakes are higher for me. I don't have another 20 years to make up for a mistake that you made. Right, exactly. I don't have that timeline, so This is why I understand there.

1:01:17 I feel like there's no understanding. Well, while Gen Xers, maybe I will say this, I don't think Gen Axers like baby boomers any more than than millennials or Zennials like us. And that's fine. I think that's a regular natural progression. So I think that every generation has issues with the generations before I said, but I think the difference that I've experienced, once again, I'm only going to speak from my experience. The difference is while we, while Gen Xers may not have liked Baby boomers and their theories and then their constructs, we understood it and respected it. What I find is these next two generations don't respect us. And that to me is all the difference. We don't have to agree, but I

1:02:00 need you to respect the shit that I've gone through for you to be able to sit here and be able to say that I want to show up to work with my whole self, right? That's where I find, it's been in my experience, the breakdown between and the difference between the relationship that Gen Xers have with baby boomers and the relationship that Gen Xers have with the the generations that are coming after us. And with that, I've got to go.

1:02:27 OK, so when are we scheduling in Part 2 for the class we have, we have well. I want to finish conversations because they they may not want the Part 2, we might want the Part 2, but does your audience want the Part 2? Absolutely, absolutely. Before, before I let you go, I have this very important question that's been on my mind.

1:02:45 You know, you're good, you're good with pattern recognition, right? And it's something, you know, we both have in common. That's why we are both I would say great. I what would you and me being a millennial, a meet millennial. I have a lot to learn from yourself in particular and your generation.

1:03:09 And like I said, and I always say, kindness, respect and hospitality are my own core values. So I'm very, very respectful, very because of respect. But I always try to, you know, achieve that balance. I work with the Gen C's, right? And I'm a young CEO. And it's, it's not easy paving that pathway because you need to find dynamic ways to motivate, you know, the younger generation. And I believe in incentivizing people because people, you know, like I said, self preservation is what is a need for people. If you see, if you let people know what is an E for them, they will push themselves, right?

1:03:48 You know, and you keep moving at the bar. But from your experience, what would you say is the common denominator? You know, you have worked with Fortune 500 companies, accelerated over 400 companies. What's a common denominator when it comes to the companies that make it and the companies that have potential but do not achieve that potential? Because potential doesn't necessarily equal to credential, right?

1:04:16 Credential is evidence based or potential might not much realise. So what's the common denominator between? So a couple of guys that make it, Yeah. So a couple of things. One, and we've talked about, we've intimated about some of these during our conversation. So one, I think humility, humility of receiving criticism and taking a step back and be like, I don't know if I believe that, but I'm gonna take that in and I'm going to let that marinate for a while.

1:04:49 Now, you might still come back and say like, no, I don't believe that. But the fact that you, you take a step back and be like, I'm going to let that sit. So I think humility is a huge thing. And I don't mean humility to the point of view, capitulate. I don't mean humility to the point of view, Put yourself last, but humility in. I don't have all the answers.

1:05:10 There are smarter people than me and let me connect with those people. Humility and the fact that I have something to learn from. I have something to learn from other people, even my employees, right? That just because I'm in a position of power, just because I'm in a position of power doesn't mean that I am the default expert. The other thing that I will say is tenacity, right? Going forward despite fear, So courage, right? Tenacity and courage of like, even though I'm afraid, even though I'm not sure I don't have all the answers or how this is going to work out.

1:05:42 Tenacity and courage of moving forward and walking forward despite fear, right? I think the third thing is understanding the math. And when I say the math, it's not always financial. It could be qualitative, it could be quantitative. And so I include relationships, understanding the math of relationships, knowing when you need to walk away and not saying that not walking away doesn't mean that that person's a bad person, but that person is not aligned with the situation or the goals that you're working towards. And yeah, so I mean, I there's I could, I could talk infinitum about this, but I think those are those are some of the things that I have seen of understanding the math of the financials, whatever the

1:06:23 situation where it's personal financials, financials, the business financials, but also the math of a leadership, the math of relationships and being able to have some critical analysis to be able to make quick relatively low information decisions to be able to propel you forward. I very, very much appreciate what you said, and I would need to compel the directors in my company to watch this.

1:06:49 Of course, I think what you've absolutely said actually describes me as a person. But I, they say never Judaics in courses. Well, that is a Latin expression in lore that man cannot be a judge in his own case. So I will push this to my directors. They need to watch this because in my head I think this is my philosophy. And that's what I leave as you know, as ACEO. And for me to you, it's it's love and absolute respect. To you, they say gratitude is good attitude. I'm very, very grateful to have you. I'm grateful to have been here.

1:07:24 I've got a joke. Go. I've got to leave for my next. Call, but goodbye. And of course. See you see your Part 2. OK.