Jennifer Lawrence’s ‘Hot Mum’ Rebrand & The 3-Day Panic You Can Ignore

0:03 Hello and welcome to Mama Mia Out Loud. It's what women are actually talking about on Monday, the 2nd of November. I'm trying not to like throw up a little bit in my mouth. The 2nd of November. No, November. I'm Holly Wainwright.

0:16 I'm Jessie Stephens. And I'm Amelia Laster.

0:18 And here's what's made our agenda for today. The leaky panic of stockpiling advice and one thing you really don't need to worry about.

0:27 What you do need to worry about is the podcast cheating scandal that has entered the mainstream. Can we talk about the stuff that actually matters for once?

0:33 You're welcome.

0:34 And why it seems like an entire generation feels betrayed by Jennifer Lawrence.

0:39 And her hair. But first, Jessie, welcome to Halloween.

0:45 Yes.

0:46 We just had Halloween, everybody. I assume you know if you celebrate. The people who celebrate Halloween are people with little children. and young people who want to go out and get drunk while wearing outrageous things.

0:55 Can't you tell that we celebrated Halloween from the haunted look in Jessie and my eyes? Yes, we celebrated Halloween, Holly.

1:02 How was it, friends, by the way? It was full on.

1:06 It was an absolute vibe. There were hundreds and hundreds of people. It was the greatest expression of community I have perhaps ever seen.

1:17 She's new to it, Amelia. She is new to it.

1:20 It broke me. But I'm so glad that you experienced community.

1:23 My children can still be restrained in prams. So I feel like that's it.

1:29 I tried to restrain mine and then they threatened arrest.

1:33 They're a bit yaffier ones.

1:35 But I just thought it felt like this year in particular we just needed.

1:40 Like something to look forward to.

1:42 It was just so fun. I absolutely loved it. I have a question for you, Amelia, as our resident almost American.

1:47 Yes.

1:47 You know that a suburban Australian Halloween involves parents walking behind their children with a roadie?

1:52 Yep.

1:53 Is that what Americans do too?

1:55 No, Americans.

1:57 When I say roadie, by the way, I mean a beer or a disguised alcoholic beverage in a Yeti cup.

2:05 So the key difference between Australian and American trick-or-treating as I see it, and it may be different in your suburb, but the key difference I see is that in the US you are expected to walk up to the door and ring the doorbell and have someone open the door and answer you when you say trick-or-treat. Whereas in Australia, it seems to be more of a like meeting at the fence line. And therefore takes away a little bit of the suspense of the trick or treating.

2:30 Like, is it going to happen?

2:31 Exactly. Is there anyone at home?

2:33 We had a big landmark in my house because nobody wanted to get dressed up this year. I would have done at least a decade of what you were doing.

2:39 Jesse?

2:40 No, actually, I lie because Brent did wear a T-shirt that said Day of the Dad and some devil horns.

2:47 He giggled to himself in the mirror.

2:49 Because the children both piked out of... trick-or-treating we had spare chocolates in our house and so I did sit out the front and try and give them away to children but because the house wasn't decorated I think I looked deeply suspicious so Brent's in his horns and his day of the dab just going they're real chocolates anyway but yeah it was it was like the end of an era for us because we've done 10 years of the trick-or-treating and this year the kids were both like meh anyway Can I tell you what I dress as?

3:16 Oh, sorry, Amelia.

3:17 Of course.

3:18 So I dress as Elizabeth Holmes, who is the very famous American scammer slash entrepreneur who is featured in the forthcoming documentary by Nathan Fielder, You Can See Everything. In a black turtleneck, very, very matte foundation, very seasonally inappropriate lipstick and eye makeup. And no one knew who I was.

3:38 No, you would have had to explain that a lot.

3:40 They kept looking at me like, why are you dressed in this crazy way on what is a balmy summer's afternoon? So I just looked a little bit deranged.

3:47 We would have appreciated it.

3:48 Yeah, I know you would have.

3:50 I love it. Well, two people who did get in a bit of trouble from, well, actually, no, one of them, a lot of celebration. Heidi Klum every year, right, is the queen of Halloween.

3:58 Yes.

3:58 She says it's the highlight of her year and she always outdoes herself. And she spends more than a year, well she doesn't, her team spend more than a year working on her costume. This year she was a severed hand. Did you see it?

4:09 It was incredible. Wait, more than a year? That means they're already working on Halloween 2028.

4:14 She said that they started making the hand while still, I think last year she was Medusa.

4:20 And then the year before. The iconic one is the worm.

4:23 Oh my God, the worm. But she was great. Her severed hand was great, if rather gruesome. But another queen of Halloween, Martha Stewart. Bit of hot water.

4:30 What did she go as?

4:31 Amelia, can you describe that picture?

4:33 So at the end of an Instagram photo dump about her QVC candle line, she posted a photo of her standing on her majestic porch with sort of dirt on her face and some old rags on and a sign that said, please help me, I'm homeless.

4:52 Oh, no. And considering that Martha is very far from homeless.

4:58 She's kind of the famous home fool.

5:02 That got a little bit of shit. As you can imagine, people were calling it out of touch and dystopian. And so Martha had to issue an apology, which is not usually what Martha does.

5:10 Correct that. It wasn't an apology. Okay.

5:13 It was a statement where she says... I am distressed that my Halloween costume yesterday, which was intended to bring more awareness to the very serious subject of homelessness.

5:24 By standing in front of my enormous home.

5:25 Just like Heidi Klum's was intended to bring more awareness to the very serious problem of accidents from blenders.

5:31 And yours was the very serious problem of unselfaware American scammers. She apologised and said, I have spent a significant amount of time and effort supporting charities that combat this ongoing social epidemic. I am committed to making a difference. Okay.

5:49 P.S. Buy my QVC candles.

5:51 Exactly.

5:52 All right, friends, let's hold hands and go someplace really weird.

5:56 Oh, good.

5:57 This is an all or nothing segment. We've done these before.

5:59 You either know everything about this topic, you've gone down rabbit holes all weekend, you've wondered what's taken us so long, or you have no idea about any of the names I'm about to list. I need you to trust me that this is interesting. There's cheating, there's hypocrisy, there is podcast drama.

6:18 Are we ready?

6:18 I am here for it.

6:19 I thought we weren't going to talk about that. There is. We're not going to talk about that private podcast drama. This is a decoy, Amelia, where we're going to talk about another podcast.

6:32 Okay.

6:33 There is a man named Ethan Klein and he is the host of the H3 podcast.

6:38 I've never heard of this.

6:39 What's H3?

6:40 That's the name of the podcast. Terrible name.

6:42 Is it? Terrible name.

6:43 H3 podcast. He hosts it. And look, I've never heard of this podcast before.

6:47 It is one of the biggest in the US and it has 2.3 million subscribers on YouTube.

6:51 Wait, I just heard the name. You're going to explain who Ethan Klein is to me? Yes. I don't understand who Ethan Klein is. Go on.

6:57 Okay, so Ethan. I've seen this name everywhere.

7:00 All right.

7:01 Ethan Klein is the host and he's got a bunch of other like co-hosts on it and one of those co-hosts who he co-founded the show with is named Hilla and her name is Hilla Klein and that's his wife right they've been together for 20 years Hilla Klein.

7:15 So that's a husband and wife hosted.

7:18 Podcast exactly it's like Holly you're Ethan I'm Hilla okay good you're.

7:22 Tamara I like how you say that I'm him Because I have a feeling he's not good. Okay.

7:30 Okay, you're Ethan.

7:30 You're the innocent party.

7:32 Now, Ethan, you're a wife guy, right? You worship your wife.

7:37 Anniversary post, they have three sons together and the youngest is only two, right? So you had a big Halloween. You have a tattoo, like you do, but your tattoo says the greatest thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother. And there is a picture of Hila.

7:51 Wow.

7:52 A really beautiful portrait of her.

7:54 He has a portrait. I have a portrait of my wife on my arm.

7:59 Yep. Is it on the arm?

8:01 I believe it's on the arm. Because that's a lot of text. I've seen a real close up of it. Like that's either bottom or arm.

8:05 And it's a.

8:06 A horrific image. Like it's not well done. But that is not the point.

8:10 Suspicious over gosh there. Anyway, I don't want to.

8:14 Now, we've heard about wife guys, right? And years ago there was a man named Ned Fulmer.

8:20 Does anyone remember this?

8:21 No.

8:22 We talked about it on Outloud. That's why I know. He was a wife guy who turned out to be a cheat.

8:26 He was a YouTube guy, turned out to be a cheat, right? And Ethan, when this came up, just like us, he jumped on. He had some thoughts about Ned. Let's just have a little listen to what Ethan said at the time about Ned Fulmer.

8:37 Yeah.

8:37 And I mean, the aspect of having the kids is for me, a dad of two boys and putting your kids through that. I mean, that's lifelong trauma for your kids at that young age, too, where the parents of the relationship has such a big impact on them. And it's got to be humiliating for his wife, too. And she's got to do this in the public eye. Dude, how could you fuck this up?

9:00 I know.

9:03 Like when you decided to fuck this girl, to put it vulgarly, you had to know that this was going to ruin your whole fucking life, dude.

9:13 Why do I feel?

9:14 What do you think is happening?

9:18 Why do I feel like he might regret those words?

9:23 It's October 23, right? Actually, it's the middle of the night. And if you were scrolling on Instagram and you were in the States, then you may have seen something pop up.

9:34 By Hilla Klein. She posted a carousel.

9:37 It was a statement and it started, I am living a nightmare I can't wake up from. I will continue reading this carousel when I see that as the first line. My husband has been having an affair. I've been fed lie after lie after lie for months and here is the truth. She goes on to say that she could sense something was wrong. She questioned him, but he was very dismissive and so she started to question her own sanity.

9:59 She eventually caught him in a lie. He said he'd kissed someone else. Then it turned into an emotional affair. And what she's discovered now is that it was six months later the extent of which she won't ever fully know.

10:11 So that guy who we just heard saying what a terrible thing to cheat on your wife when you've got small children has been cheating on his wife while he has small children.

10:20 Exactly.

10:21 She writes about the betrayal she feels and how she's in survival mode. She says for all women to trust your instincts and if you're not being treated right, get up and leave. The podcast world was left reeling. Then Ethan drops his own statement.

10:36 Oh, no.

10:36 Right?

10:37 Dueling statement.

10:38 He asks for privacy at this time. Yeah, I bet, mate.

10:41 I bet you want some privacy at this time. Notably, he does not deny anything. He said he is stepping away from the business. He's removing any financial stake he has in it so that money can go directly to Hila and the crew. So you, Ethan, Holly, you come onto the show and you're like, keep supporting Outloud.

10:59 I'm going to step away.

11:01 Don't blame my co-hosts. For what I have done. I don't want to damage the crew. I will exit. I will fade into the hedge.

11:08 Exactly. Right.

11:09 So he's guilty as hell.

11:10 Yes.

11:11 Then the podcast comes out and makes a statement. So at this stage.

11:15 The podcast itself. Just like the microphones step up to the mic.

11:19 Exactly.

11:20 A lot of thoughts.

11:21 I've made a statement as Hila because I've been wronged.

11:24 Okay.

11:24 Ethan's come out and made a statement now.

11:27 Mamma Mia Out Loud is ready.

11:28 No.

11:29 Oh, you're coming.

11:30 Okay, I'm coming.

11:31 You're coming tomorrow. So next, H3, a.k.a. in this situation, Mamma Mia Out Loud, makes a statement. The podcast itself has to come out and make a statement on their Instagram. And they say basically they're shocked and angry and they're actually disgusted in you, Ethan, for what you've done to Hila.

11:52 This is the microphone.

11:52 This is the microphone speaking. They said.

11:55 Please know that we're safe, we're sticking together, and we're looking after each other.

12:00 What? I don't know what they're safe from.

12:01 Safe?

12:01 That was confusing.

12:02 From me?

12:02 Yeah.

12:03 You're dangerous.

12:04 I'm just a dick. I have lying eyes. Yes.

12:07 Well, the plot thickens. Enter Tamara. Tamara, good. I'm glad you see it. The internet has theories about who the other woman is.

12:15 Oh.

12:16 And the theories are that she was sitting at the table the whole time.

12:21 I don't want to be Tamara.

12:23 Tamara?

12:24 So, yeah, yeah. We're sitting next to each other.

12:27 Well.

12:27 She's a co-host?

12:28 Yes.

12:29 Would you like the evidence?

12:30 Yeah, please.

12:30 I'll bring the evidence to the table and then you tell me if you think the evidence is compelling. Point number one. She was recently missing from an episode. So was I.

12:36 Oh, shit. There you go.

12:39 Annual leave, they call it. Well, she wasn't here. Next one. Hila, that's me, has unfollowed Ethan and Tamara off Instagram. Oh.

12:50 Hila has.

12:51 Oh, okay.

12:52 So I've unfollowed you out of nowhere off Instagram.

12:54 Yeah, which is weird because they're not on Instagram.

12:56 Yeah, exactly. Third one. There's an old photo that's very surfaced, right? Ethan, you were dressed as Cat in the Hat.

13:03 That's nice.

13:04 That's funny. It was Halloween. I was twin one. I was thing one. Tamara over here was thing two.

13:11 Is that a bit icky? Oh, that's romantic.

13:14 Because he has two wives.

13:15 Yeah.

13:16 Yes.

13:16 Yeah, two things.

13:17 He's got two things.

13:18 Exactly. I'm the wife.

13:20 I have three children.

13:21 What's Tamara saying about this?

13:23 Tamara hasn't said anything yet.

13:25 Because she might just be being thrown under the bus because she's the closest female to the cheetah.

13:31 Yes.

13:31 That does sometimes happen.

13:32 Yeah, but explain the unfollowing on Instagram and explain the things.

13:35 That's suspicious, deeply suspicious.

13:37 It is suspicious.

13:37 Where does Tourette's come in? Because I saw your notes. Yes.

13:40 So Ethan has Tourette's. Okay.

13:42 And the reason that's relevant is that it may, like, he was someone that we knew so much about and that shared so much of himself with the audience. People feel this affinity to Ethan and there are all of these Reddit communities dedicated to this podcast going, I feel personally betrayed.

13:56 Yeah.

13:56 Because I loved Ethan.

13:57 Can you speak a little bit more about what they talked about on the podcast?

14:00 Oh, everything.

14:01 And to be clear, this podcast is almost part of a bigger network where he has made so many podcasts over the years. They live, him and Hila live in this mansion in, I think it's Bel Air. Like they've made so much money off it. He used to do a podcast with Trisha Paytas. You're not going to know who that is. There are going to be people listening who are like, please talk about Trisha Paytas.

14:21 For half an hour. I'm not going to do that.

14:23 If you do want us to talk indefinitely about Trisha Paytas, I will say we have a podcast called In the Comments, which is for Gen Zs. But they are so online that they are across all of this. If you want to just like get into the weeds, go to In the Comments. They have got you covered.

14:44 So this sounds like the classic thing of you build your brand around your personal life to a point. And to be fair and fully transparent, Podcast hosts who have a lot of hours of airtime every week, ourselves included, you do end up talking about your life quite a lot, even if you're ostensibly talking about other things. So everybody thinks, oh, what a nice guy. This relationship seems great. They're so happy.

15:07 He would never do what that nasty Ned did. And he has. He has. And the problem with building your professional life around your personal life is if and when your personal life goes to shit... So does your professional life.

15:20 And what we can learn, I think, is that I think we all need to start not casting any moral judgments on anyone.

15:27 It's true.

15:27 Because we can sit here and go, oh, what a dirty dog cheating on his wife.

15:31 Am I going to cheat on my wife? Maybe I will.

15:33 Yes.

15:33 And I don't want these words to come back and haunt me.

15:35 I agree with you, Jessie, but we are going to talk about Jennifer Lawrence later. I am going to cast judgment on her and then I reserve the right to launch my own hair care brand. But other than that, yes.

15:46 It's true. You're absolutely right. Because I was thinking about this. I talk about my elderly boyfriend, don't I? And like, there'll be some people out there who must think they seem like a lovely couple.

15:56 Yeah.

15:56 Oh, they don't know half of it.

15:58 They don't know half of it.

15:59 Because you know what they've done?

16:00 Is if you want to just spend some time distracting yourself from world news, then may I suggest you go onto a little app called TikTok and you will find compilations of everything Ethan has ever said about his wife, of everything he's ever said to Tamara.

16:16 They're all bantery.

16:17 There are some really icky things in there about Tamara, like... basically calling him really old and like, you're older than anyone I would ever date. There's one bit where Hila is sitting there going, it's so weird how our children sort of look like you, Tamara. Like just icky bits that when you put them in a new context, this is the thing, is there's an overwhelming amount of content for us all to see.

16:40 Yeah, exactly. That everyone can repurpose.

16:42 Are you a Tamara truther? Do you believe that she's involved?

16:45 I do believe that she's involved.

16:46 The fact that there's been no statement is weird.

16:48 There's no statement.

16:49 And look, this is all allegedly. And Tamara here, even if she is involved, you know, she's not the one married. So I would like to say that Ethan is the guy we'll put on blast here.

16:58 It's tricky because I think we're going to talk on our sub-zep about Dax Shepard and Kristen Bell because this is a similar thing in a way, not that he has at this point, as far as we know, done any public cheating.

17:10 But if I were him, I would not comment on this story. It's true.

17:13 People, you see a relationship on a podcast, on YouTube or whatever, and you make a lot of assumptions about it, but also everybody dissects everything you say and they go, this is good and that's bad and da-da-da-da. There are a lot of women who are completely, and men I'm sure, who are completely blindsided by a cheating partner. When I went to the Lily Allen concert last week, there were some sisters in that audience who were singing along with every word that was in that divorce album with an enormous amount of catharsis and emotion because there's a sorority of betrayed women out there, right? And this guy has just...

17:49 It's like, oh, we want to see lovely role models of good husbands and great dads and relationships that seem healthy. And then.

17:56 And then this happens.

17:57 Humans are shit at times.

17:58 Yes.

17:59 And they have made a lot of money. It's central to their podcast. This, you know, enduring relationship in like... And they're famous in their corner of the internet. That podcast all kind of orients around their relationship.

18:11 And for him.

18:12 in the words he used against Ned Fulmer, to blow that up because of something he wanted to do.

18:19 And imagine the stories their kids are going to tell one day. My parents were famous podcasters and then their divorce played out on that.

18:27 I also think, and I just wanted to table this here. If our numbers start to suffer and we lose a bit of relevance.

18:38 I volunteer as tribute.

18:40 I just think in terms of a strategy, I think this isn't a bad one.

18:48 I think it's a bit of fun.

18:52 Quick, how many cans of baked beans do you have in your pantry right now? After the break, why everyone is suddenly talking about stockpiling.

19:00 There's a lot to be worried.

19:02 About in the world.

19:03 The fate of the H3 podcast. I'm worried about that.

19:07 What Heidi Klum's 2028 Halloween costume is going to be.

19:09 She's worried about that.

19:10 Which is why I take particular pleasure today in bringing you a story which you actually don't really need to worry about.

19:17 Hurrah.

19:18 The Outlanders Facebook group was abuzz over the weekend about something you don't often hear Outlanders talking about. It wasn't about perimenopause symptoms or how cute Jessie's babies are. It was about canned food and specifically they were talking about the concept of stockpiling.

19:36 I saw this and it made me panic.

19:37 You mentioned that you were all of a sudden seeing that word everywhere last week, right?

19:41 Yeah, I saw a headline that was basically like Australia told to stockpile and I felt my cortisol levels skyrocketed.

19:50 Skyrocket.

19:51 And then when I saw it in the outladders, I was like, it's everywhere I need to stockpile. And I didn't like how that.

19:54 Made me feel. Yeah.

19:55 So that was actually on Yahoo, I think, that headline you saw. It said, Aussies urged be prepared and stockpile canned food, bottled water as threats grow. Oh, you just don't want to hear the phrase as threats.

20:07 Oh, God.

20:08 The ambiguity of the threats. I was like, what threats specifically?

20:11 Yes.

20:11 I don't have anything in my car. I stockpiled chocolate. That's it.

20:17 Well, look, so I wanted to get to the bottom of why this all of a sudden started happening. And it turns out that it all started last Thursday with the British. That's who I'm blaming for this, Holly. The British Defence Minister told Britons to prepare be ready emergency kits.

20:34 Did you hear about this?

20:34 I did. I saw it on Instagram. It came out. I mean, I follow the British Prime Minister and a few other people, and there was like cute little graphics trying to make stockpiling look cute. There were like things that should be in your kit and everything. And it was a bit alarming. Yeah. But it was not suggesting it was here, but the reasons that the Brits are being told to stockpile is about seasonality, really.

20:57 Yeah, and look, they face a very different environment to us. By the way, a lot of British people were very panicked because it turns out that by the weekend, baked beans, bottled water and batteries had sold out in supermarkets across the UK.

21:08 Yes, and to be fair, this is the problem with this, right, is that... Even if you looked at those posts, they weren't saying go and buy every tin of beans in Tesco's, although I don't need any encouragement to buy every tin of beans in Tesco's. But they were saying have three days of food, have a torch, have a this, have a that. But you can't say these words without everybody going, as we all learnt during COVID and the toilet paper.

21:31 Can I ask?

21:32 Why?

21:32 Yeah.

21:33 What's happening?

21:33 So there's a lot of different things happening in the UK, which means that it's probably a good idea for people to think ahead. First of all, they're going into winter, which is very different from here. Secondly, their energy supplies have really been disrupted by Russia's war in Ukraine, which is ongoing. Okay. Okay. And which they're very directly affected by.

21:51 And then also on Russia, there's been a lot of reporting around Russia stepping up what people are calling it shadow war in Europe, where they're targeting critical infrastructure. Now, none of these three things are happening here.

22:04 And also storms. They're having storms.

22:06 Yeah.

22:06 Yeah.

22:07 And look, that's not to say that Australia does not face threats. Clearly, we face a lot of environmental threats and challenges. We've got our floods, we've got our fires, we've got our extreme heat events, which are coming this summer with El Nino. So yes, we've got all of that coming. But that's not new for us. We've known for a long time that we live in a harsh land and that we have to think ahead. And that was what a lot of the Outlouders were.

22:30 Saying, right, Holly?

22:30 When I saw this post in the Outloud Facebook group, I was, first of all, like you, Jessie, I was like, what? Although I knew where it had come from because I'd seen the British things. And some people were being, you know, a little aggressive with the original poster and being like, stop freaking everybody out. But then I was really impressed, actually, by the sort of calm preparedness that so many Outlouders had in the comments because... If you don't live in a capital city and you live anywhere that might be, might often have extreme weather events like cyclones. So anywhere north of the Tropic of Capricorn, anywhere that might get flooded in, anywhere that might get bushfire affected in the

23:06 summer and have access cut off, which is a lot of Australia. A lot of outlanders are saying, well, I wouldn't like, it's not stockpiling. They were saying to have like, three days worth of food in your pantry or to have a torch under your sink. I know that I live now, I live somewhere where the power goes out a lot, something that never used to happen when I was in the city. But so for the first time ever, I have a box under my sink that has Candles, matches, torches, power banks. Like that's not panicking. That's just being practical for your environment.

23:34 And there were a few comments that said, who doesn't have three days worth of food? The thing that worried me wasn't the food element, it was the water. Like saying, do you have, you know, a bottle of drinking water or whatever? Because even I think France has a statement about how much you should have.

23:48 And then, of course, Germany.

23:51 There's a bunch of recommendations about how many litres per person in your house of water. that I had never considered as someone who has the absolute privilege of living in a city and has never faced that.

24:01 So one thing to know in Australia is that it really differs by location what you're meant to do, because I was therefore curious to find out what the official advice was. And there is no national directive, so it just varies depending on where you are. In New South Wales, for instance, they recommend a 14-day stay-at-home plan, which seems like a long time. The Northern Territory includes a section on crocodiles and how to prepare for crocodile attacks. So that group was testament to the fact that Australians are a little bit ahead of the curve of a lot of other countries in dealing with these worsening weather effects because we've always had to deal with them. So there was one out louder. She mentioned that after last year's

24:38 cyclone where they were without services for eight days, she said, one big thing I changed since the cyclone was making sure we have power banks for our phones and extra bags of pet food, which I thought was a really good pointer. Yeah. Another commenter wrote, as an ex-Far North Queensland girl, I have tinned food and staples as a matter of course. Enough for a week. It's just how I grew up. She also has a barbecue with a cooktop for when the gas mains go out. This is practical Aussie advice.

25:04 My fear about this story quickly turned to anger, which was just I was so irritated at the headlines that had circulated.

25:15 The panic inducing.

25:16 The panic inducing. And we know that people read headlines.

25:20 I think you have a responsibility for how you kind of leave people feeling. It made me wonder if with COVID, I remember in the early days of COVID, we would see the headlines about even the word pandemic and something happening in China. And it took a while for it to really, for us to realize how serious it was.

25:39 Given how ubiquitous like digital media is and how much media we consume, it made me wonder if something like that happened tomorrow if we'd listen. Host of the Quickie, Charlotte Mortlock, was talking about how if you tell people that the sky is falling every day, they will stop listening to you because they don't trust you anymore. And it made me think I am told I could find literally an apocalyptic headline every single day. that makes me feel sick, it turns into news avoidance.

26:07 We know that.

26:07 Because the other thing that happened was that there were a bunch of countries, so as you say, there was UK, Europe. Former FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino, who has something called The Dan Bongino Show, which I hadn't heard.

26:21 About, he has.

26:25 He kind of started this in the US by urging his audience just last week to stockpile 30 days of emergency supplies, which meant that this was coming from inside the US as well.

26:33 He is not a reputable source. He's just a guy with a microphone.

26:36 Isn't he a Trump guy? I mean, it's in his interest to stir up anxiety.

26:40 That's what I mean, is that it's just like this putting together of all these disparate stories that the Australian Red Cross is.

26:49 Not the same as Dan. who's just a podcasting guy.

26:52 And by the way the Australian Red Cross's advice was like they appeared to have been asked in a panicked.

26:56 Way by Yahoo News.

26:57 Do we need to stockpile and the Red Cross is like try and have an emergency plan consult your local authorities and that turned into the headline we read out.

27:06 Before exactly which is terrifying so is that is the headline Amelia that we're all going to be okay.

27:13 The headline is we live in on a harsh continent dealing with a lot of weather shit and people are taking steps to deal with it.

27:22 I appreciate the outlouder who wrote I stockpile chocolate because if something ever happened to Global Cocoa Supply, I would be in dire straits. She's my soulmate. I was thinking, what would I stockpile? And I was thinking, I'm not proud of it, but wine and pasta. So there you go.

27:38 That's so true.

27:39 You've got to have that.

27:40 That is so true, actually. It did make me think maybe next time I'm out, I do need a few bottles of water.

27:45 Yeah, and get some Martha Stewart QVC candles. It's true.

27:48 Oh, true.

27:49 Tidal together.

27:50 Some goop candles. Some Megan candles.

27:53 Yeah, power goes out and you say to Brent, I have the, this candle smells like my vagina candle.

27:59 We can have an overpriced celebrity candle stadium thing. I mean, it would be great. After the break, a very famous actress who has really irritated Amelia with her hair. What's wrong with a famous actress launching a beauty line? It certainly isn't new. Jessica Alba. JLo, Drew Barrymore, Gwyneth, of course.

28:22 Tracee Ellis Ross, Kristen Bell. She's got a baby skincare thing. And then, of course, people who are famous for other things. Rihanna with her amazing makeup that's made her a budget millionaire. Selena Gomez. Kylie Jenner. Kylie Jenner.

28:35 Beyonce.

28:36 They are models. You could argue is a bit more, you know. in their wheelhouse, but.

28:42 It's made them billionaires.

28:43 It has made them billionaires and moguls. And if your mates who you bump into at award shows are now billionaires and moguls because of the stuff they're wearing on their face, you might well go, hmm, these Oscars are not feeding my family. That's what Jennifer Lawrence was clearly thinking. Because last week, the Celebrity Beauty announcement was from her, from Jennifer Lawrence. millennial icon am i right in thinking that like for a lot of millennials she's a bit like the their relationship with her is a bit like gen x with aniston except that lawrence does have oscars and aniston does not yes yeah i think she's around my age yeah she's more than just an actress she's kind of like somebody that has been grew up with

29:26 us yeah exactly and the thing is is so jennifer lawrence has launched a hair care line it's called mess and it's spelt m e s.

29:34 With a little degrees sign.

29:36 Yeah. So is it pronounced, oh, I was thinking pronounced mess okay yeah apparently it's pronounced mess and it has three products they're priced between 30 and 50 us and there's like a hair mask and a hairspray and a bit and she went on a publicity um drive to promote said hair product And we've talked before on the show about how it used to be that you had to choose a lane. You're either a serious actress, serious artist, serious musician, or you're a lifestyle guru. You can't be both.

30:04 And that's kind of been blown up. But people are mad about Jen Lawrence's haircare line. A few of the critiques that I have seen have suggested that They've criticised the price in this economy, the whole in this economy argument.

30:17 It is kind of like a premium price. Yep.

30:19 They've criticised the hustle because Jennifer Lawrence suddenly turned up on Instagram a couple of weeks ago and everyone was like, this is strange. Jennifer Lawrence has always been very private and she's suddenly on Instagram and she's posting these sort of– cutesy but oblique posts, why has she suddenly joined? And people are now like, aha.

30:38 Her hair's never been longer, I will say.

30:40 She's got very nice hair at the moment. And people are criticizing what they see as this sort of insincere promo. She's lately, over the past few months, I'd say, her kind of public persona has pivoted to be much more appearance focused. She's been giving interviews where she talks about plastic surgery, where she talks about her beauty routines, where she talks about fashion, where she talks about wanting to be a hot mom at drop-off. So people have been mad about this haircare line, including you, Amelia.

31:06 By people, you mean me.

31:07 I need to come to you and ask, why do you feel betrayed by Jennifer Lawrence's hair?

31:13 Holly, I had to look really deep within myself to figure out why I was so viscerally upset by this news, because I was. So I think part of it is that Jennifer Lawrence's relatability has always been this double-edged sword for her. It's part of why she became such a big name. She was the second youngest Best Actress winner ever at age 22. So she has, as you say, Jessie, been in our lives for a long time. We've seen her grow up. But that relatability means she's also held to a one might say a higher standard than other more kind of aspirational celebrities. So she's had a lot of controversy over the years. She got in trouble for being disrespectful of Hawaiian indigenous sites while she was filming

31:53 a movie there. She was also criticized for rehoming her dog.

31:57 Oh, I remember that.

31:58 I think it's kind of like, it's sort of Anne Hathaway-ish. Both of them kind of suffer from this under the microscope scrutiny. And I think a lot of that's probably just deep-seated misogyny because we sort of end up calling them annoying because we don't really know how else to explain why we feel upset.

32:15 We overexpose them and then call them annoying for being everywhere.

32:18 That said. I think what really upset me about this beauty line, and I'm willing to believe, Holly, if you want to push back on this, maybe I am just not wanting a woman to be in the public eye and to be ubiquitous and to be making her own money. I'm open to that criticism. But I think it's really because it feels disingenuous. Jennifer Lawrence was such a sort of three-dimensional celebrity. She was never just a pretty face, although she was, you know, an exceptionally beautiful woman.

32:51 She seemed like a real interesting person.

32:54 And that's not just because she ate burgers in interviews or fell on the stage to collecting her Oscar. She seemed like she cared about the world she lived in. So during the first Trump administration, she was really active politically in a nonpartisan way. She wanted to get young people out to vote. She traveled the country for that.

33:11 And I thought that was so admirable because she came from a very red state, a very conservative upbringing, and was clearly trying to bridge that. bridge relationships between that conservative upbringing and maybe a more progressive mindset that she was embracing after that. And that was admirable to me.

33:28 But then when Trump won in 2024, she said to the New York Times that she was not going to be political anymore. She said, I'm just not showing my opinion on something that's going to add fuel to a fire that's ripping the country apart. And I get that. I think that makes sense. And I can totally understand that the scrutiny she must have been under in that very polarized environment was probably unpleasant for her. But shilling unnecessary beauty products is the other end of the spectrum from being political. Like, isn't there an in-between here? I don't need another hair mask. The disingenuousness of telling me that I need a volumizing spray that Jennifer Lawrence had to put out because there are no other volumizing sprays

34:07 on the market. And then there's this quote from her in the cut where she says, she compares acting to which she does brilliantly, to her creating hair products. She says, there is an undeniable energetic thing that happens when you're creating things, whether it's a movie or a product. I get that same electric buzz. Jennifer.

34:27 Please.

34:28 Yeah. I'm with you, Amelia. There's a lot to discuss there.

34:32 I'm with you.

34:32 I do want to.

34:33 Say one thing. I do need something that's better for managing my freeze. And when I was reading her many, many, many words about this in the cut where she's like, and the lab would send me the things and I'd send them back. And you're like, A, I didn't believe her. But B, I was like, hmm.

34:49 Maybe.

34:49 I read the whole profile and I was so bored.

34:54 I just went, you have a woman's right to make a new product, a woman's right to feel bored reading an ad for it.

35:01 And I think that was it.

35:02 I don't think we've ever read an ad, a 2,000-word ad by Jennifer Lawrence.

35:07 Yeah, it just doesn't land.

35:08 It doesn't land. And I have.

35:11 I guess a bit of empathy about the fact that it's sort of like, she was this type of woman, why can't we go back to that?

35:17 It's like because we.

35:19 Relentlessly bullied that woman. Like she was not, she was, as you say, seen as so overexposed. The culture shat on her so, like, royally. She was called, the New York Times, the Hollywood Reporter, all said that when she was in The Hunger Games it was like, well, she's too big to be in a starving situation. like a starving villager. Like we criticized her body. Like we, as a culture, she was coming up at the internet, like the moment of the internet, the amount of hate that that woman received.

35:53 Yeah.

35:53 Look at what we get. Like we get.

35:55 Someone who has become incredibly, and her looks have changed. And she said that she's had some cosmetic procedures and all of that.

36:04 That doesn't surprise me.

36:05 Like she's been bullied within an inch of her life for like the way that she looks.

36:09 I know.

36:10 But there needs to be a word for the sad feeling in my tummy I get when an objectively beautiful woman starts giving interviews where she just criticizes her appearance and says how much she needed to fix it. Like I totally understand it and I have empathy for it because as you've already explained, Jessie, she's under a level of scrutiny that most of us can barely imagine and But beautiful people bitching about their saggy boobs and their tummies and their faces. I'm like, there needs to be a word for it because it's like all I think is what about the rest? What do you think the rest of us look like?

36:43 But it's also, it's not just bitching about it, which is bad enough. It's bitching about it in order to sell me more shit. Yes. Like that's what really makes me angry.

36:54 You know what it is, Amelia?

36:55 It's also incredibly transparent. It was like, okay, and now's the part of the interview where you say you.

36:59 Were hands on.

37:01 And you trialed the product on your own hair. And then you went into the factory and you were breastfeeding while having a meeting.

37:08 And now you're a business model. I was like, yeah, okay, I can write this.

37:12 It's boring.

37:13 We've heard it.

37:14 We all know.

37:15 Come on, let's just all hold hands and agree. You want to be a billionaire too.

37:18 Yeah, it's interesting because the old model was like it's not new. that celebrities link themselves to beauty products. Perfume used to be the celebrity go-to, right? So Britney Spears famously has sold more perfume than records, I think.

37:30 It's meant to be an amazing perfume. But yeah, but like.

37:33 But everybody knew that those deals were, you just put your name on it. Like a beauty brand who know what they're doing, have a thing and you put your name on it.

37:40 And Jennifer Lawrence is the face of Dior at the moment. So she's doing that.

37:43 And a lot of, but the thing is, is that kind of, then what happened is the new wave of this celebrity endorsement, celebrity brands, and Emma Greed talks about this a lot, right? Is that it's not about celebrities, or they have to at least say, it's not about them putting their names on it. They have to, it has to be seen to be imbued with a bit of their DNA.

38:01 Right.

38:01 And people, deal breakers, deal makers like the Emma Greeds of the world, that's their business model. Get a brand that like, you know, in her case, some jeans that are maybe not selling as well as they could. Link that deal with a celebrity, make everybody very, very rich. And here you go. And the thing is, is that there's nothing wrong with that. And women making money and.

38:21 Adding to that class, sure. But I totally understand your frustration, Amelia, because then they have to sell it to you in a way that just sounds so unlike anything they've ever said to you ever before.

38:34 And maybe ultimately what I'm angry about is the marketing of this product. Because what you said there about Emma Green says it has to have the DNA of the celebrity in order for me to buy it. I didn't feel angry about Rihanna starting Fenty Beauty. I didn't feel angry about, and this is a highly relevant example because you mentioned her before, Jennifer Aniston was involved with a haircare line before she launched her own called Living Proof, which is a spectacular haircare line, which no one faulted her for getting involved with because Jennifer Aniston and hair go together. And Jennifer Aniston never tried to pretend to us that she was something different from someone who hosted great Sunday night parties for her friends and and has

39:16 great hair.

39:17 Yeah, and I also felt, in terms of the feeling like this is transparent, there was another beat in the, I believe it was in the Cut interview, where she said, I want to be the sexy mum at school, pick up.

39:30 I went, I've got the quote. I want to be a sexy mom at drop off. I want to look like a woman that has her shit together, even when I've just woken up and don't have my shit together.

39:37 So that to me was you've sat down with the PR team, you've worked out what you're going to give them, what the headline's going to be.

39:42 It just felt so manufactured.

39:46 And I thought you're also this thing about your looks now being on the agenda and your brand is being hot in a very different way than it was 15 years ago.

39:57 Yes.

39:58 And that's all linked to you trying to sell me a haircare product. And I just feel... manipulated a bit.

40:03 Well, that sexy mum line, that's so interesting, Jessie, because now that you say that, I wonder if that wasn't just rage bait. They knew that would anger people, the idea that, and she says that that's why she got a boob job is because she wanted to be a sexy mum at drop-off. And they know that's going to make people make headlines on the internet and thereby create publicity for.

40:24 The hair care brand.

40:24 So we all feel a bit played.

40:26 Even the piece that announced this felt defensive, though, like it knew that. The headline was, Jennifer Lawrence hopes you won't hate her new project. And it's like, yeah. I don't know. I think it's interesting because I wonder if we're just seeing an evolution. You know, we keep talking about how everybody, our– We've never been more literate in terms of dissecting marketing and seeing it for what it is.

40:48 And so the way that we just talked about this and the transparency of it, and is that the right link? You know, back to the emigreed and the jeans thing, getting Khloe Kardashian to be the face of jeans for everybody in curvy shapes is smart. Like, it's really smart. It's because to your point about Aniston and the hair, those things really go together. And we're so literate at that now, but this one feels a bit weird.

41:10 Another example is that Hailey Bieber obviously has seen tremendous success with Rode, but she was always a beauty girl. Everyone knew that about her. She sold out particular lip liners before she launched her own brand. So when she launched her own brand, people understood it.

41:25 I want to know if it will work because as well as there are so many celebrity beauty lands now, a lot have also closed. Five big celebrity beauty brands have closed in the last five years, including Drew Barrymore's Flower, including JLo's beauty brand.

41:39 Scarlett Johansson.

41:40 Scarlett Johansson's skincare line. And I'd love to know if it... If it still works on us, the celebrity endorsement of beauty lines, I'd love the Outlouders to tell us.

41:49 I reckon that what's going to happen is initially a bunch of products and a bunch of people at, you know, media organisations will try it.

41:57 And if it's good, it has a chance.

42:00 But if it's not, I think that's ultimately all that sells those kind of products is whether or not it works.

42:04 One thing I've learnt here is that Amelia knows a lot about hair care brands and I will be taking her offline to help me tame my frizz.

42:10 Anything that helps my frizz, I'm all ears.

42:13 Outlouders, thank you for being with us this Monday and our hair, of course. We will be back in your ears tomorrow. But until then, goodbye.

42:21 Bye.

42:22 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.