551 - I Won’t See You Later

0:17 Hello.

0:17 And welcome.

0:18 To My Favorite Murder.

0:19 That's Georgia Hardstark.

0:20 That's Karen Kilgareff.

0:22 This is our brand new table.

0:23 Look at our new table slash studio kind of.

0:27 Yeah.

0:27 Slash decorations.

0:29 We just did a little bit of a refresh rehab. And when I say we, I mean everybody else that works here.

0:35 They did an amazing job.

0:36 Yes.

0:36 Everything. If you're not watching on Netflix, what are you even doing?

0:40 Come on. We stream.

0:41 We're literally on Netflix and you can see all our cute like stuff behind us.

0:46 All kinds of stuff people that listen to the show made.

0:49 People that listen to the show made a lot of, what's it called when there's secrets? Easter eggs. Easter eggs, thank you. And lots of cute stuff.

0:57 Yeah, we should do kind of like a tour.

1:00 Yeah, for the fan cult.

1:01 That's right. A little walk you through, find the names of all the people that made us this stuff. Everyone's like, no!

1:08 I love it.

1:09 It's so exciting.

1:10 What's up with you?

1:12 Well, I have spidery eyelashes today.

1:14 Did you get them?

1:15 Done? I just have a ton of mascara on. I did like a primer. They look different. Thank you.

1:21 They're like visibly different.

1:22 Primer and then Katie Jane Hughes. Do you follow her on social media? She's a British makeup artist.

1:28 Very famous.

1:29 Does famous people. But she's came out with her own line of stuff.

1:32 Okay.

1:33 Doesn't need my help. But the second she was like, I make my own mascara. And the wand is like a quarter of the size of a normal one.

1:40 Yeah.

1:40 So you can just get in there and flick out.

1:43 This isn't, I don't know. I don't know what we're doing. We're not selling anything, but they're visibly different. I'm like, they're bright. I like them. Okay, good.

1:50 Visibly positive.

1:51 Yes, yes, yes. Okay, great, great. Visibly like bright and bushy. Okay, good. Is that a thing?

1:56 Bushy tail. Do you want bushy eyes? I wanted to give you the experience of what it was like to sit across from me and study Hall sophomore year. And this is what it was like.

2:05 Just lashes for days.

2:06 What are you doing? Stop putting on all that mascara.

2:10 Oh, my God. I can't. Just crunchy eyelashes. Yeah.

2:13 How about coat number four and then socializing?

2:17 The things we do. I have a book recommendation because I have 90 days alcohol-free today.

2:26 Congratulations.

2:27 Thank you.

2:27 Are you doing, and it doesn't matter either way, but are you doing chippage? Are you doing... Anything official?

2:33 I'm going to do some chippage. I have my 30-day. I want to get my 90-day. Why not? But I'm not doing hardcore AA, but I do get a lot out of going to meetings. So I'm doing that. My dad offered me his big book today. I was like, thank you, dad, but.

2:52 We're taking this step by step.

2:54 We're not taking it step by step. We're not. I'm not.

2:56 We're going against the steps. Exactly. We're doing sideways crab walking.

3:00 Exactly. I'm taking what works for me and leaving the rest. Okay. So speaking of these things, the thing that's really helped me is getting as much knowledge as I can about how fucked up alcohol is for your actual anatomy and your brain and your hormones.

3:15 Yes.

3:16 So there's a new book out called Hangxiety. Oh. Which if that word triggers you when you hear it, it's your book.

3:23 Yeah.

3:24 Right?

3:24 Hangxiety.

3:25 Yeah. And you know exactly what that is, right? You wake up and you're immediately, oh, fuck. Yeah. Oh, fuck.

3:33 What have I done?

3:34 What have I done? What did I say? So it's a book called Hangxiety by Millie Gooch. Who's a listener, who's really cool. The Gooch?

3:41 The Gooch listens?

3:42 And it's just a lot of really good information, but told in a way that's relatable, that you can understand. She's also British, so there's a lot of cute sayings and words in it that we don't use. But it's good. That's great. Yeah, it's definitely helping me.

3:54 Really nothing better than... Being able to read something that actually feels like it's getting you somewhere else.

4:00 Yeah.

4:01 That we're out of where you don't want to be and toward where you want to be. Totally.

4:04 And it makes it so much harder to then do the thing that's so bad for you when you know exactly the systems that it's fucking with.

4:11 Yeah.

4:11 You know?

4:12 That's right. A little of the science behind it.

4:14 Science. Who knew?

4:16 Anxiety. Anxiety. That's really good. Oh, God.

4:19 Never again. I never want... That's like what this is. I just don't want to wake up... Like that again, ever in my life. And the only way to do that is to not drink. I know. It sucks.

4:28 My worst one was like, it truly, I woke up in such a good mood. And then I was like, wait, why am I in such a good mood? And then the Polaroid started rolling.

4:38 Yeah.

4:39 And it truly was like a bad, it was almost like a bad Jonah Hill movie where I was like, wait.

4:45 Is this the one where you saw yourself kissing someone?

4:48 Trying to. Trying to.

4:51 Trying to like lean in for a smooch.

4:53 Somebody else is like, oh, God. And it really isn't my style sober.

4:59 No.

4:59 To be all.

5:00 Well, that's why you do it.

5:02 That's right. Yeah. But oh, my God. I can see it as clear as day. And that happened 58 years ago.

5:10 Are you still friends with him? Does he know that he's part of your lore?

5:14 I'd rather not say.

5:15 Okay.

5:17 What if we don't reveal one thing about ourselves?

5:20 That's part of this. Yeah.

5:22 My face is getting all hot. It's embarrassing to the moment. It's like all those moments that I haven't had to do since that time, I'm very grateful for.

5:31 And that's like why it's funny and okay to talk about it is because you did something about it. You're not still lingering in that bad place. So to me, it's like you still don't have to name names.

5:40 Don't have to name names. But also, yeah, because you don't have to fully throw yourself on the crucifix of I was so bad to do this. Lots of people do it. Lots of people work their way through it and out of it and do other things. We're all going to progress in this life in whatever way we choose to.

5:56 Yeah. I'd rather go on that way.

5:59 I want to go toward Christ. Don't you guys? And that's why we got this new table.

6:05 Karen said it. Go towards Christ.

6:08 Finally, up to the Lord.

6:10 That's making me embarrassed. That's who you tried to kiss. Yes, Jesus Christ.

6:14 He had such pretty hair.

6:16 A beard.

6:16 And these cool sandals.

6:17 You love a beard.

6:18 Yes. And he was just so understanding.

6:20 Oh, my God. And a guy who's like handy.

6:21 And he's like, do you want more wine? I'm like, where are you getting this wine?

6:24 So sacrilegious.

6:25 I love it. I know.

6:27 Okay. Let's get into it, shall we?

6:28 We should.

6:29 Oh, we have a podcast network still.

6:31 That's correct.

6:32 It's called Exactly Right Media. And here are some highlights from our beautiful, wonderful bounty of shows.

6:37 We have so many great shows building more and more by the day. Yeah. And here's the thing. I'm just going to brag on us.

6:44 Good.

6:44 We make hits.

6:45 Yeah.

6:46 Over here. Yeah. Exactly right. Very proud of all these shows, one of which is Paul Holes and Kate Winkler Dawson's Buried Bones. The two of them traveled to 1911 to Sault Ste. Marie, Canada. They wrote out how to pronounce Marie. Thanks, you guys. Where a woman named Angelina Napolitano faces the ultimate punishment for a shocking crime.

7:07 What's the crime and what's the punishment? You'll have to listen to find out.

7:11 Do your own work.

7:11 And then over on fucking Hollywood land, amazing Hollywood land, Jake and Zeph look back at Will Smith's rise from a 1989 arrest that nearly derailed his career to becoming one of Hollywood's biggest stars. Then decades later, he finds himself at the center of controversy once again with the slap heard around the world. Like, that is... It's so cringe.

7:32 Such an incredible moment. Twitter was still Twitter. People were still watching things and live tweeting, posting. And then that happened. Oh, God. And we switch timelines.

7:45 So check that out on Hollywoodland.

7:46 And then over on That's Messed Up, Cara and Liza break down the SVU episode In the Wind and the case of murder and landlord Kim Kyu Soo. Plus, they're joined with our own Michael Foote from Brief Recess to talk about the ongoing U.S. immigration crisis. It's very much ongoing.

8:03 Speaking of Michael, over on Brief Recess, he and Melissa sit down with none other than Clay Aiken to talk dad life, his new album, and what it was like coming out as gay in good old 2008. I mean, full credit to Clay Aiken.

8:20 Also, don't forget to watch Michael Foote on The Traitor's New Blood. So episodes three and four will be out tonight on NBC.

8:27 Love it. And in the merch corner, spooky season has officially arrived at the exactly right store. Check out the My Favorite Murder illustrations. This is the MFM illustrations T-shirt and art print designed by Charlotte Croy Hudson. How crazy. Frickin' cool is this?

8:42 Twelve little beautiful pieces of personalized art of things that we love and are known for on the show. Yeah. Like the middle finger. The Home Depot 12-foot skeleton.

8:53 It's like little Easter eggs of stuff we like. There's a Swiss cheese. Like, that's old school. That's old.

8:59 Down next to Elvis. Mothman, of course. There's a sinkhole.

9:02 All the things we love. And I have crows on my dress.

9:05 I mean.

9:06 Look, listen.

9:07 Look, listen.

9:07 We got it all. I fucking love that thing so much.

9:10 I do, too.

9:10 And then we're also getting a Raglan shirt of Stay Out of the Forest. It's spooky Halloween, and it's very cool.

9:17 It's a brand-new design. It's moon-centered and moon-centric and moon-forward.

9:22 You love moons.

9:23 I do.

9:24 So check that out at exactlyrightstore.com.

9:27 I love moons, plural. Moons wherever I can get them.

9:30 It's kind of your thing.

9:31 Yeah. It's exciting to do podcasting like a Charlie Rose style here.

9:35 It's very. Yeah.

9:36 It feels cool.

9:37 Very official.

9:40 My story today begins in October of 1845 in a boarding house in Boston, Massachusetts. Old newspaper reports describe this Beacon Hill boarding house as, quote, disreputable.

9:51 Fun. Like, what else are you going to be if you're a boarding house?

9:54 Right.

9:54 But disreputable.

9:55 Get some good shit going on in there.

9:57 Have you ever heard of a reputable boarding house?

9:59 Gambling in the basement. Sexy stuff upstairs.

10:01 Absolutely.

10:02 Some just call it a brothel, while others say it's a place that caters to unmarried couples who live together.

10:08 Sounds great.

10:09 Sounds like everywhere in L.A. Regardless, all of those choices are frowned upon by 19th century polite society, of course. So on the chilly morning of October 27th, 1845, around 5 a.m., the old couple who own this boarding house hear a woman scream, followed by a loud thud and what sounds like someone rushing down the stairs and out the front door. The couple go to see what's going on and find one of their female tenants in her bedroom, dead on the floor. Her throat has been slashed, there's blood everywhere, and there are several small fires burning on and around her body. The victim is identified as 21-year-old Maria Bickford, and this is the notorious case of Maria's murder and the incredibly sensationalized trial for her accused killer.

10:54 The main sources used for this story are an article by my best friend, Robert Wilhelm, who has his website, Murder by Gaslight, which we have used on this show so many times. And he has written a bunch of great books. I've recommended them a lot of times. Also, a historic pamphlet recounting the murder trial. and a Smithsonian Magazine article by Abbott Kaler, and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So sometime in the 1820s, Maria Bickford is born Mary Ann Dunn in Maine. Her parents are described in old documents as, quote, poor but respectable.

11:30 Mary Ann is described as very beautiful. She has big dreams beyond the quiet, simple life that she's inherited there in Maine. Mary Ann is said to be strong-willed. Which given, of course, the social norm. Could you imagine just us being born back then? Just immediately.

11:47 Burned at the stake immediately.

11:50 We're like the first grammar school stake burning. So which given the social norms of the era is not complimentary. Still, she can't escape the expectations of young women born into a working class family of the time. So when she's just 16 years old, she gets married. Her husband is a shoemaker, which is.

12:09 Great. You like that?

12:11 Well, yeah. You're like, could you make me some green ones with a slight heel, a little bit of a wedge? You just have that at home.

12:17 You love a handy Jesus type. I mean, a.

12:21 Man who knows shoes, who cares about his shoes.

12:24 Shoes. Okay. Shoemakers listening? Listen.

12:27 His name is James Bickford. They live a modest life together near Bangor, Maine. But within two years of being married, Marianne begins an affair with another man. We don't know much about him, but in 1842, when she's around 18 years old, I mean, these are like high school kids. They run off to Boston together. Within a couple of months of their arrival in Boston, Marianne's new boyfriend, gets bored with the affair, seemingly, and goes back to Maine and leaves Marianne behind. So here's a picture of Maria Bickford.

12:56 Okay, that's just a hard drawing to understand, but I'm sure she's beautiful.

13:01 What was beautiful about her was all of the terrible pebbling on her face. Someone had stepped with a big shoe. The, like, leaking Sharpie that they used.

13:12 To draw her face.

13:13 But she's doing my mascara trick, and I'm really mad. Don't steal my shit, Maria.

13:17 And then the newsprint all over your face. It's just beautiful. And the one forehead curl.

13:23 Right in the middle of her forehead. Okay, so now she's in the big city alone, but she loves it. She loves all the hustle and bustle. It's like what she was waiting for. So she decides to stay in Boston. She changes her name to Maria. And then to make ends meet, she becomes.

13:39 A sex worker.

13:40 She works at various brothels and boarding houses around Boston and then down in New Bedford, Massachusetts. She never really settles into one place. Eventually, her husband, James Bickford, tracks her down and comes and tries to convince her to come back to Maine with him.

13:56 Wow. Interesting.

13:58 She refuses.

13:59 He makes shitty shoes.

14:00 That's right. James will later say, quote, while in the city, she appeared delighted with everything she saw, adding that she'd become, quote, dissatisfied... with her humble condition back home, which is what happened to me when I moved to Sacramento.

14:13 Those big city of Sacramento just had Karen.

14:17 They've got a river and a fake small Golden Gate Bridge over that river. Have you ever seen that bridge?

14:23 Yeah, it's pretty. Hilarious.

14:25 A couple years later in the summer of 1844, Maria meets a client named Albert Terrell. They're both in their early 20s, but unlike Maria's humble background, Albert comes from a very wealthy family. So Maria and Albert become infatuated with each other. They're pretty much inseparable from the moment they meet. Albert takes her with him and they travel up and down the East Coast using fake names, posing as a married couple, and checking into beautiful luxury hotels.

14:52 Fuck yeah. Right? All about it.

14:54 It's as if all of Maria's dreams are coming true. But. This relationship quickly turns toxic. Albert's behavior looks like classic love bombing, and also it's covering up a serious anger issue. What? A rich kid who can't handle his emotions? He's said to be obsessive about and possessive over Maria once they return to Boston. That could be because Maria refuses to stop making her own money as a sex worker. And for the time, I'm sure, he felt very justified. Prosecutors will later allege that Albert, quote, had sometimes been known to be severely cruel toward Maria and threatened her life, end quote. So Maria's own words suggest she's caught in a vicious, confusing cycle of violence. According to writer Abbott Kaler, quote,

15:40 Maria once confided to a fellow boarder that she enjoyed quarreling with Albert because they had, quote, such a good time making up. Yeah.

15:49 Sometimes you thrive off of that toxicity when you're like 19.

15:52 When you're 19 and you're... Supposed to be starting your family of 18. Meanwhile, and this is a crucial detail, Albert is a married father of two.

16:02 Oh, dear.

16:03 Yeah. And just like Maria and her own husband, Albert's wife very much wants him to end this affair and come back home to his family. So at this time, adultery is a crime in Massachusetts. It's illegal to cheat.

16:16 Wow.

16:17 Let's bring it back.

16:19 Punitive.

16:19 If we're going to be such fascists about everything else. Let's make lying and cheating illegal.

16:24 That's actually never going to happen.

16:25 That's never going to happen.

16:26 Because guess what?

16:27 And Maria and Albert aren't exactly discreet with their affair. Just months into their relationship, Albert actually invites Maria to come and live in his family home with him.

16:37 You can't do that, bro.

16:39 It's very disreputable, I'd say. So she's supposed to live there with the wife and kids. Other family members intervene and they kick Maria out so the two rent an apartment together. But they're evicted after the landlord finds out they are not married and therefore breaking the law. So Maria and Albert pack up and find themselves another apartment.

16:59 And everything is okay for a little less than a year until May of 1845 when Albert is actually indicted on those adultery charges. It looks like the charges are filed by someone in his own family with the hope that it's like a tough love move that's going to get him to end the affair and come back home.

17:18 Right.

17:18 But Albert does what any rich person would do. He ignores the indictment and refuses to report to court. He is now a fugitive from the law. For a few months, he manages to dodge the authorities. Again, the relationship between Albert and Maria is incredibly unhealthy to the point where Maria actually writes to her real original husband, her only husband, to say that Albert scares her and she wants to end it with him.

17:44 Oh, Jesus. Yeah.

17:46 So then in June of 1845, the month after Albert is indicted, the couple is seen having an explosive argument. They break up for a little while. They end up reconciling. They do it over and over until September 29th of 1845. That day is when Albert is finally tracked down and arrested by the police for adultery. So he goes to jail, but not for long because he's rich. He's bailed out by a family member, and once he's free, he immediately tries to reunite with Maria.

18:17 Guy.

18:18 Sir. But he can't find her. When he asks around the neighborhood, he can't get any info on where she might be. He gets so desperate that at one point he offers a random kid on the street a gold watch if he can track her down.

18:31 Wow.

18:32 Just a little.

18:34 Yeah. Hey, street urchin.

18:35 Hi. Hi, little random orphan. Go do my bidding. But the boy looks all around town and even he can't. If the street urchin can't find her, she's nowhere to be found. So Albert is still facing those adultery charges. His trial is imminent. While he's off trying to find Maria through child labor, his beleaguered wife, his mother, and his father-in-law are all begging the court to postpone his proceedings.

19:00 So basically don't make him go to court for adultery. Let him try to get his.

19:05 Life back together. They're not doing it. Yeah. They're doing it to get him to fold. Yeah.

19:10 So they're convinced if Albert can be, in their own words, reclaimed, then he'll just need a couple months to get over Maria and just go back to life as it was. So his trial is pushed by six months on the condition that he pays all of his court fees and maintains his best behavior. You know how you have to ask adult men to do all the time.

19:30 Please be good.

19:31 And it seems to work. A couple weeks later, on October 21st, 1845, it looks like Albert has turned over a new leaf. He goes to the courthouse. He pays his fees. But turns out it's all for show. He's still searching for Maria. And the next day, October 22nd, is when he finally finds her. She is staying at that disreputable Beacon Hill boarding house that we talked about at the beginning.

19:55 Got it.

19:56 So prosecutors will later allege that Maria had been hiding there, hiding from Albert, since his arrest. But when he finds her, he stays with her that night and every night after until the morning of of October 27th, which is five days later, when she is found murdered in her room. Tenants in the boarding house can hear the couple arguing in their room just hours before the body is discovered.

20:20 And we should mention here the National Domestic Violence Hotline's website notes, all sorts of reasons why someone might take their abuser back. Because that's the conversation that's always like, why?

20:31 Totally.

20:31 Why would she, she, she? And it turns always into what the woman is doing in the situation.

20:35 100%.

20:36 And the reasons are, if you really think about it, it's like fear, shame, love, or the normalization of abuse as love.

20:45 Financial abuse. He's a rich guy and she.

20:49 And she doesn't have anything.

20:50 Yeah, he made it so she relies on him at this point. Yeah.

20:53 The hotline also notes, leaving is often the most dangerous period of time for survivors of abuse.

20:58 Totally.

20:59 Which, in this story, very relevant.

21:01 Yeah.

21:03 Okay, so basically this crime breaks across town. It's in every newspaper, every kind of tabloid of the day type of newspaper. Here's an article.

21:13 Horrible murder and attempted arson in Boston.

21:17 And it looks like a wild boar at the top. I can't see that far. Oh, it's a man on a horse. My apologies.

21:23 He's got a banner that just says news.

21:25 Could we please steal that design?

21:27 Oh, yeah.

21:29 News. It's got to be public domain at this point.

21:32 Totally.

21:32 Hey, news.

21:33 The control room thinks that's Paul Revere.

21:35 Oh, okay.

21:37 That's Paul Revere.

21:39 Isn't that like 100 years earlier?

21:40 The news is coming. The news is coming. That's not.

21:43 Guys, this is the way we love to break news. That's not what he said. And that's the way all breaking news took place until CNN in 1981 when baby Jessica fell.

21:51 Down the well. That's right. 24-hour news cycle began.

21:54 So once Maria's body is discovered, they found out her throat has been slashed and the fires burning on and around her were set to destroy evidence.

22:05 Yeah.

22:05 But there's still plenty of evidence that's in the room, like a bloody razor, it's found near the bed, and a vest, a cane, and letters initialed AJT, all traced back to Albert J. Terrell, the man who was there with her. It's later revealed that around the time Maria's body is found, and just moments after someone's heard rushing down the steps and out of the boarding house, Albert has made a beeline for some nearby horse stables.

22:33 Hmm.

22:34 He tells the person who is the stableman, we might guess, tending to the stables, that he's, quote, in a scrape and he needs to borrow a horse. Okay. And then he takes that horse and immediately skips town, as any innocent man would do, cutting through Vermont and then up to Canada, all the way out of the country.

22:53 Wow.

22:54 That poor horse. Old Dusty wasn't ready. Oh, Jesus. There he boards a passenger ship that's leaving for Liverpool. But then after a couple days at sea, something crazy happens. The ship is forced to turn around to avoid a storm, and they have to go dock in New York City.

23:11 Oh, my God. He's like, phew, I'm free and clear. I'm away. Where are you going? Wait a second. Yeah.

23:15 Oh, fuck. That's, again, Jesus in action. Albert lays low in the Big Apple for a few days, and then he gets onto another ship headed to New Orleans. But by the time he arrives there on December 5th, it's been more than a month since Maria's murder, and the authorities have been tipped off. Officers arrest Albert and take him back to Massachusetts, where he's charged with arson and murder.

23:38 This whole case and the manhunt to track down Albert has all been covered in the papers. Public opinion is that Albert is guilty. It seems obvious, but Albert's family can afford to get him a very good lawyer. So they hire a former U.S. senator from Massachusetts named Rufus Choate, who is known for giving impassioned and very influential courtroom speeches.

24:01 So there's a picture of trial coverage that the Boston Daily Mail used.

24:05 Do we get to see Choate? Where's Choate?

24:07 We get to see Choate. First, we're going to see this is kind of like how they covered it.

24:12 Has the person ever seen a face who's drawn this?

24:15 It's like they always kind of go across the eyes like, don't worry about what they actually look like. And then can we see Rufus Choate? Oh, shit.

24:22 Rufus Choate is not playing games.

24:25 Rufus is like, how dare you wake me up in the middle of the night to defend this man?

24:29 Listen, I just turned 32 and I'm not having it anymore.

24:33 When I see myself in clips, I often say, why are you Rufus Choating so hard in this episode, Karen?

24:40 Karen, stop Choating so hard.

24:42 Karen, there's too much blush and too many eye bags. You're going to make everyone jealous.

24:46 By the level of Choate.

24:48 I think if Choate started talking, you'd be like, yeah, whatever you have to say.

24:51 How many of his original teeth do you think he owns in his mouth?

24:54 Rufus Choate, 12. But then he's got a bunch of other people's teeth. And where did he get them and how?

25:00 No questions.

25:01 We don't.

25:02 Not to Choate. Please don't question Choate.

25:05 Don't question this man. He will haunt you in your dreams.

25:08 Yeah. He's a ghost.

25:11 That is my part. I mean, everything that's happening there is happening over here.

25:15 Karen, that is not your grandfather.

25:16 Karen, stop it. I refuse. That is not your grandfather.

25:19 To let you anymore.

25:21 Okay, so Choate's defense for Albert, of course, paints Maria as a seductress sex worker with a hypnotic power over poor innocent men like Albert. While the prosecution points out that Maria took measures to distance herself from Albert and actually expressed real fear and concern— The defense focuses on dehumanizing her because of her profession. It's then revealed that the boarding house had been locked up that night, the night of her murder, and there were no signs of forced entry, meaning Maria was killed by someone who was already inside the building. And none of her neighbors were known to have any ill will toward her. And that's when the defense suggests— so it's actually just— it' s getting closer and

26:02 closer down to it must be Albert, the one that's there with her. But that's when the defense suggests that Maria— killed herself.

26:10 Okay.

26:11 They actually argue that suicide is, quote, almost a natural death of persons of her character.

26:17 Jesus. Wow. Uh-huh.

26:19 End quote. Also, Choate does concede that if Maria didn't take her own life, yes, it is possible that Albert did do it. But if that is the case, then he might have been sleepwalking.

26:30 Okay. Cover your bases.

26:33 Right. Choate. Could be anything.

26:37 Okay, so sleepwalking is his second in command.

26:40 Yeah, that's his fallback.

26:42 Second line of defense. Yeah.

26:44 And this is often said to be the first time a sleepwalking defense has ever been used in.

26:48 Court in America. Really? That long ago?

26:50 Yes. Wow. So the jury there has never heard anything like this. Like, you know, obviously they followed crime cases and courtroom dramas in the tabloids all the time. This is brand new for them.

27:01 Okay.

27:02 So now... Multiple members of Albert's family are brought to the stand to testify that, yes, in fact, he is a sleepwalker. And that they've seen him do strange, sometimes unsettling things while he was asleep. Some claim that while sleepwalking, he shattered windows or yanked down curtains. One family member claims Albert once pulled a knife on him while sleepwalking.

27:24 He had his bed knife in his hand.

27:26 His bed knife. You know.

27:28 You know. Bookending this testimony is defense attorney Rufus Choate. You remember him. Should we bring the picture up again? Just really quick. Rufus Choate? Just remember, in case anyone's forgotten the great Rufus Choate.

27:41 Rufus Choate, Esquire?

27:45 He sells this defense with his extraordinary public speaking skills so much that people are packing into the courtroom every day just to hear him put on this defense. In his closing argument, which was guess how long his closing argument was for this Two.

28:00 And a half hours.

28:01 Six hours.

28:01 No, Chote.

28:03 So he might look slightly tired, and I'm not judging his parents, but you might get the sense he's tired. But his feet were so young and lively, just pacing back and forth as he talked for six hours. So he tells the jury sleepwalking, quote, explains the killing without a motive. Premeditated murder does not. In old Rome, it was always practiced to bestow a civic wreath upon him who saved a citizen's life, a wreath to which all the laurels of Caesar were but weeds. What are you?

28:33 Shut the fuck up, dude.

28:34 Stay with me. Do your duty today, he's telling the jury.

28:38 Okay.

28:38 Do your duty today and you may earn that wreath.

28:42 Damn.

28:44 End quote. Caesar?

28:45 We're bringing Caesar.

28:47 We got to go to old Rome if we're really going to talk about this crime correctly.

28:50 Indulging Caesar.

28:52 And also just, hey, you'll get a good present if you save a person's life. So then the judge adds another two hours with his own speech playing straight into the defense's plan. He reinforces that Maria is of depraved character, that sleepwalking is arguably a form of insanity. He then derides many of the prosecution's key witnesses, like the boarding house tenants, who provided key testimony as being of, quote, disreputable character.

29:20 Your Honor— What's it called when you say? I object. Objection, Your Honor.

29:24 Objection, Your Honor.

29:25 Objection.

29:26 Sustained.

29:26 Leading the jury.

29:28 Denied. Overruled.

29:30 I call for a mistrial.

29:32 Law and order. Bum, bum. It's just such a horrible little example of basically. your word isn't worth anything because you run a boarding house and you are a witness to what was actually happening. Right.

29:46 And, of course, all the jury is men or men, right? So, like, that's going to be fun.

29:52 In the end, the jury deliberates for just two hours before coming back with a verdict. Albert is not guilty.

29:59 Mm-hmm.

29:59 According to one account, quote, when the not guilty verdict was announced in the courtroom, the audience who had come to empathize with Albert let out a floor shaking hurrah that spread from behind the bar to the gallery and then into the square outside.

30:15 Everyone, can you fucking have some decorum, please?

30:18 No, they couldn't. They were so excited for the sleepwalker. So it isn't long before Albert is back in the courtroom, though, because he's still going to get tried on the second charge of arson. His defense uses the same strategy. It's Choate again. He's up to the same Choatiness.

30:34 It's Choate all over.

30:35 He's going to Choate it. He's acquitted, and Albert's acquitted once again. Abbott Kaler reports, quote, Fuck. Choate's not having that. Choate's like, you got to be fucking kidding. And also, I love that when it's like, well, you did it. You defended.

31:01 It was easier than I thought it would be. So give me my money back.

31:05 So. No.

31:06 Can't chode a choder.

31:07 Can't chode a choder. I'm doing the Carmela Soprano fingernails. Can't chode a choder.

31:13 This is hard.

31:18 His aggressive and experimental defense clearly saves Albert from a conviction. But over time, Chode's association with Albert's case starts to affect his reputation. Critics argue that he's helped set a dangerous precedent where any person charged with homicide can simply claim that they were sleepwalking at the time and get off scot-free. Some even call Choate the lawyer who, quote, made it safe to murder. Should we see him one more time?

31:43 No, more.

31:44 Should we see the lawyer who made it safe to murder?

31:47 Choate for one lifetime?

31:50 Choate. But I totally sympathize because Choate seems like he's like me where he hates getting his picture taken and then he locks his jaw up and makes.

31:58 It all look worse.

31:59 Right.

32:00 With his wooden teeth and his mouth full of other people's teeth.

32:03 And his bad contour. In the end, the only legal repercussions Albert ever faces involve the adultery charges because it's much more important than murder. He's tried, found guilty, and given three years of hard labor. This trial was kicked down the road after the family begged the judge to give him a chance to change his ways. And then he almost immediately sought out and killed Maria. Wow. So that was basically he was supposed to, like, if he had been tried when he was supposed to, but the family hadn't interfered and had worked at the time— she maybe wouldn't have been murdered. After the trial, Albert falls entirely out of public view. He dies sometime around 1880 when he's in his mid-50s. His name, however, lives on

32:46 with the infamous sleepwalking defense. Meanwhile, the way Maria Bickford, a victim of a horrible crime, was shamed and blamed after her murder remains an all-too-familiar tactic in our legal system to this very day. And that's the story of the murder of Maria Bickford. and the first ever sleepwalking defense. Wow.

33:07 Good job.

33:08 Thank you.

33:09 You're looking at me really accusatory. It's Chote.

33:12 I'm just possessed by Chote now. Wow. Good one.

33:16 It's a story we've heard so many times that I was like, dude, thank you. Dude, we already covered this one. Right. Because it's so fucking.

33:23 A young woman who is forced to become a sex worker to have any kind of agency or independence. And then someone decides it's okay to kill her.

33:32 A jealous man gets angry at her.

33:35 And the judge and the courts and the public and the newspapers support it. And like the public gets taught that that's how we should think. That all the way up till, I would say, 2016 for me, where it's like this idea of, Of a less than person or a justified murder like that.

33:53 Definitely. I mean, yeah, to this day. Yeah. All right. Well, I have a story for you that's completely not like the one you just did. Okay. Was like, there's no chote, unfortunately.

34:05 We can bring it back just for fun.

34:07 But there is exotic animals, so.

34:10 Oh, are you about to just tell me.

34:13 The Tiger King story? No, but it's along those lines. Okay. Okay. Great. So it's Wednesday, October 1st, 2003, and we're in the ER in Harlem Hospital Center in New York City. Okay. The doctors and nurses here have seen a lot of shit, as you can imagine, but most have never seen injuries quite like the ones that are on a 37-year-old construction worker named Antoine Yates. Yes. He had been brought to the hospital by ambulance after having been picked up from the floor of the hallway in his apartment building where he told police and EMTs that he had been attacked by a pit bull. But doctors are skeptical because Antoine has a huge bite mark in his forearm and a deep gash on his calf. And there is visible bone.

34:59 You're smiling.

35:01 I'm sorry. Because I think I know what it is.

35:03 Yeah.

35:04 And so I just am. A little worm where I'm like, I think I know it.

35:08 Gleeful. You look gleeful. Because I feel like.

35:11 I remember reading it at the time and being like, oh, my God. But we'll see because I could be wrong.

35:15 The bite radius looks much bigger than a pit bull's bite would be. So the doctors admit Antoine and begin to care for his wounds. But they also, like, message police. Message police? By telling them.

35:27 You up?

35:27 Hey, guys. You up? To go check out Antoine's place to see what is happening.

35:32 Yeah.

35:32 So while Antoine is recovering in Harlem Hospital, the police head over to his apartment, which is a really large five-bedroom apartment that he had taken over from his mother in a public housing complex called the Drew Hamilton Houses. And we actually have a photo of the housing complex. It's exactly what you think it'd be like. Yeah. Pretty grand.

35:53 Very NYC.

35:54 Very NYC.

35:54 It's like what you see as you drive into the city from the airport.

35:57 A lot of large just buildings with lots of... Anyway.

36:02 We're so from California.

36:03 I know. They go up in the sky.

36:05 They're so tall. Look at all... They're tall. They have windows.

36:08 Air conditioning units. Okay. The Yates family apartment is on the fifth floor of one of these buildings. And Antoine's actually grown up there. So police knock on the door. No one answers. But they hear a roar. This is the story of Ming, the Tiger of Harlem. The main sources I use for the story are reporting from the New York Times, and the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes.

36:34 I'm so, like, happy and angry at the same time, because why didn't I think of this? I'm hangry. And I have hangxiety. But I remembered it as a panther. But that's just my... Well, you want to know why you might not remember it completely?

36:49 It's because... A few days later, I'll get to it.

36:54 There's a reason.

36:55 There's a reason, and it's an interesting one. So this roar that they hear inside of this apartment complex is likely probable cause to enter the apartment. But obviously, no one wants to do that. No one's like, I got it.

37:10 You can go home.

37:11 Exactly. So the police climb up to the fifth floor fire escape and lower cameras into the apartment through the window. To get the footage. And what they see in one of the bedrooms is a fully grown 400-pound tiger, which authorities will later learn is a Bengal-Siberian mix, lounging on the floor, just looking like an overgrown cat. Yeah. So beautiful.

37:37 Police return to Harlem Hospital to, like, ask Antoine some fucking questions, obviously.

37:42 Excuse me.

37:43 Discover that he's ripped out his IV from his arm. He knows the jig is up. And walked out, and no one knows where he is.

37:50 But he has, like, tiger wounds.

37:52 I think they cleaned the wounds up and, like, fixed them up. And they were like, hang out. And he was like, no. He still had an IV in. I mean, jeez. Yeah, right. Let's see him inside the apartment. What's up?

38:03 Hey.

38:04 He is chilling so hard in an apartment where he doesn't belong.

38:09 He's so gigantic.

38:11 He's a huge sweet baby.

38:12 Also, just can you imagine if they're like, it's a recording, and then they just walked into that?

38:16 Yeah. It's a full-grown 400-pound fucking gorgeous tiger. I want to touch it like, yes, I want to scrub his neck.

38:25 And that's how Antoine felt, and that's what happened to Antoine.

38:29 Exactly.

38:30 Wow.

38:30 Yeah. So police are simultaneously working to track down Antoine and figure out a way to get this 400-pound tiger out of the building. And the building is home to roughly 500 people. So they're like, that's not safe. Yeah. It turns out Ming was something of an open secret, though, in Antoine's building. Because, like, everyone knows everyone's business in a building like that, right?

38:51 Especially if you roar it out.

38:52 Exactly. A few people had complained to city authorities about a urine smell coming from the apartment. Because how do you— there' s no litter box big enough.

39:01 A tiger litter box. Yeah.

39:03 Yeah. It's not happening. But no one had ever mentioned a tiger. I feel like it's got to be, like, don't tell our— Corrupt landlords of other people's business.

39:13 Right. Don't narc and you won't get narc'd on. Totally. That's how you should live.

39:17 Yeah.

39:18 Except for when it comes to tigers.

39:19 Right, except the tiger shouldn't be living in an apartment. Even if there's five bedrooms. That sounds very large.

39:24 I know. It sounds really nice.

39:26 Reporters find a neighbor named Julius Cook when he's out walking his tube. pit bulls named Rocky and Oreo.

39:32 I know that's important.

39:33 Julius says he once heard a roar about a year earlier, and he says, quote, I thought somebody was watching the Discovery Channel, end quote. Because you've got to imagine the TV's up. Yeah.

39:43 They have surround sound, woofers, and tweeters.

39:46 Woofers and roars.

39:47 Roars.

39:49 Neighbors mentioned hearing about other animals in Antoine's apartment over the years. They bring up bear cubs, rabbits, which isn't that big of a deal.

39:56 Rabbits. I don't know why that's written there.

39:58 The most silent animal of all time. Cute little tiny apartment animal.

40:01 I fucking keep hearing this rabbit next door. Keep it down.

40:04 Hyenas. Oh. Monkeys, snakes. Again, a quiet animal. A llama, a tarantula, and a young lion. So he's just like bringing them in.

40:15 He loves animals.

40:15 And he's not trying to keep it a secret.

40:16 He's the David Attenborough of New York City.

40:19 They also bring up Rottweilers. Those are allowed in many New York apartments. And years later, Antoine will never corroborate any specific species, but he does tell a reporter, quote, yeah, I had a lot of exotics in there. So we don't know. The neighbors also report seeing Antoine make daily trips to the nearby supermarket to lugging home 25 frozen chicken thighs every day.

40:43 I was picturing just an oversized cartoon piece of meat, like Fred Flintstone style.

40:48 Oh my God, over his shoulder, like a rib.

40:50 God damn.

40:51 Yeah. One of the store's cashiers tells a reporter, quote, he was our best customer. Bet.

40:57 We're sorry to lose him.

40:59 Antoine had always lived in the fifth floor apartment with his mother, Martha, who's 67, and several of his siblings, as well as foster siblings, who Martha took care of. Antoine had brought Ming home as a cub two years earlier. Hello, baby. And it seems like he got him from an unscrupulous exotic animal outfit in Minnesota called Bearcat Hollow.

41:19 But it has a name. It's like you're going to be unscrupulous, but you're naming it yourself.

41:24 Yeah, we have an LLC and everything.

41:25 We have sweatshirts.

41:26 We have sweatshirts. Bearcat Hollow has been connected to at least one other tiger attack and will eventually be shut down in 2005. Two months prior to Antoine's injury, Martha had moved with the foster kids to a suburb of Philadelphia. Maybe they didn't want to live with the tiger anymore.

41:43 Get away from the wildlife.

41:44 Sure. It's unclear if the children had ever lived in the apartment at the same time as Ming. But on one occasion, a downstairs neighbor of the Yates, a woman named Valerie Tompkins, had complained to the housing authority that a large amount of urine had leaked into her apartment. That smell is never coming up.

42:04 Here's the thing. You could get a kiddie pool and fill that with cat litter, and that could.

42:08 Be a tiger. But do they know? They want a mark. Yeah, yeah.

42:11 Instinctually, they're not going there.

42:13 Right.

42:13 Yeah. That makes sense. But so much pee that it seeps through the floor.

42:18 The floor.

42:18 This is why it doesn't work.

42:20 No.

42:20 There's many reasons.

42:21 Totally. Many reasons.

42:22 Pee is the big one.

42:23 Yeah. And, like, your neighbor's just trying to live her fucking life.

42:26 And then she has to have pee rain.

42:28 Pee rain.

42:29 Get out of here.

42:30 And it appears that the housing authority ignored this complaint.

42:33 Oh, that's weird.

42:34 Which they are notorious for doing. At the time of Ming's discovery, also Valerie's nine-year-old daughter tells the press that one of Martha's foster children had once invited her over to see this tiger. Her name's Janaya, and she says, quote, my friend said, want to come see my tiger?

42:49 End quote.

42:51 Which, hell yeah, you'd brag to everyone.

42:53 I would never shut my mouth.

42:54 As a child. It would be your thing. You'd be the tiger girl.

42:57 I would be selling tickets.

42:59 It's unclear when this happened or if Jenea did go see the tiger. Ming's only two years old, so he might have just been a little baby at the time. So it's not like crazy that a child was going to visit a tiger.

43:10 Yeah.

43:10 Because it was cute.

43:11 Knock, knock, knock.

43:13 We have kittens here.

43:15 Big, mean, sharp, talented kittens.

43:19 So the NYPD consults with the Bronx Zoo, the Nassau County Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and the Center for Animal Care and Control. And through these connections, they get tranquilizer darts, a big cage, and a large quantity of raw meat. So they're ready to go.

43:37 It's very like Wile E. Coyote of all the things they're collecting to catch.

43:41 There's like a fucking fishing pole with a big stake on the end of it. And then they, yes. That's real amazing.

43:47 And an anvil for some reason.

43:49 An anvil.

43:49 Drop the anvil.

43:51 Okay, the reason you might not have heard of this story is because On this day, two days after this happened, the day they're about to go grab the tiger, Roy of Siegfried and Roy was critically injured by a 400-pound white tiger named Manicor.

44:09 That's crazy.

44:10 In the middle of a show in Las Vegas at the Mirage Theater. Remember that happened?

44:14 Yes.

44:15 I don't know if everyone knows that Siegfried and Roy were a big fucking deal in the 80s and 90s. So glamorous, like Liberace level. We all thought that the animals must love them.

44:27 They love them. They love being with them.

44:29 They take care of them. And then this one revolt. Roy lived, but he had a severed spine and a stroke from this attack and was partially paralyzed. So that happened the same day.

44:41 Wow.

44:41 As this was going on.

44:42 Same day.

44:42 Which is why you might not have heard it. Yeah.

44:44 But also, like, what was the astrology doing that day? Like, I mean.

44:47 Yeah.

44:49 That's crazy.

44:50 I know. So it's later in the afternoon that day when a police officer named Martin Duffy rappels down the outside of the building. How did he get that job?

44:59 Marty Duffy.

45:00 Marty, you're up.

45:01 He loves to rock climb.

45:03 Yeah. He rappels down the outside of the building from the seventh floor to the fifth floor, armed with a tranquilizer gun. And takes aim through the open window of Ming's bedroom. Duffy says, quote, he charged twice and I shot him. He charged the last time and broke through the glass. We have a fucking incredible picture of it.

45:22 Look at this. Oh, look at that kitty cat.

45:29 I know.

45:29 I love that there's wild pictures of this photo you've ever seen. Unbelievable.

45:34 Marty's like, what am I doing? Why did I volunteer?

45:37 All my life choices. I'm suddenly.

45:39 I wanted to be a writer. What am I doing?

45:42 So I should have brought a water pressure hose up here because it really.

45:46 Little squirt bottle.

45:47 Back, back. So right after Ming breaks the glass of the window, like I'm going to eat you, the tranquilizers take effect. Conks out.

45:57 If that was in a movie, you'd be like corny.

45:59 Yeah.

45:59 Not real. Yeah.

46:00 And he falls asleep.

46:02 Oh.

46:02 Oh. I wonder if he purrs.

46:05 He remembers like when he used to get half pounds of meat brought to him from a local bodega.

46:12 A team of officers are then brave enough to go in after Marty's taken one for the team.

46:16 Yeah.

46:17 And they carry the tiger out of the building on a tarp and further into the apartment. Authorities also find a huge fiberglass tank and in it is a five foot caiman. Do you know what a caiman is?

46:28 No.

46:29 It's a South American reptile that's like an alligator.

46:32 Yeah.

46:33 But wait, it's more aggressive. Oh, good. That's the difference between that and an alligator.

46:38 We improved the alligator. Do we have a picture of a caiman?

46:41 I think we do, actually. It just looks like a fucking alligator.

46:44 Oh, yeah. But they have a real attitude.

46:46 Yeah. Like, he's got a mohawk. He's especially pissed off.

46:49 He's like, you know what? I won't see you later.

46:51 Yeah.

46:51 I'm a caiman. I won't see you later.

46:55 Good one. Thank you. So Antoine will later say that the caiman is named Al, just in case you were interested. Wait, sorry.

47:03 He got a super hostile reptile to put in the back room.

47:06 Uh-huh.

47:08 Sorry, I just kind of lost where we were and forgot that this also was in the house. Yeah. That's insane.

47:13 We're all, they're roommates. It's a situation comedy.

47:15 It's one of the best children's books that Maurice Sendak ever illustrated.

47:21 So Ming spends the night at a city animal shelter, probably scaring the shit out of all the, like, fucking dogs.

47:26 But those cat ladies were like, out of my way. Oh, my God.

47:30 And the next day, both he and Al are transported to the Noah's Lost Ark Animal Sanctuary in Berlin Center, Ohio, which is a rural area not too far from Akron.

47:41 Mm-hmm.

47:42 I know you love that city.

47:43 I do.

47:44 Well, all this is happening. Separate law enforcement officials with slightly less of a taste for adventure. That was Allie's wording.

47:50 Nice.

47:50 Good one. They're like, OK, you do that. We're going to get Antoine. You get the angry tiger.

47:54 Yeah.

47:55 We're going to get Antoine.

47:56 The chill tiger and the angry friend came in.

47:58 Yeah. Which who do you want to? So they track him down to the hospital of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, where he had checked himself in after fleeing Harlem Hospital. Like he was like, I still need help.

48:09 Yeah.

48:10 I just don't.

48:10 Large pieces of my flesh have been removed.

48:12 Oh, God. At this point, knowing Ming has been captured, Antoine is totally forthcoming with police telling the whole story of how Ming had wound up attacking him. A few weeks earlier, a neighbor had given Antoine an abandoned one-month-old kitten to care for. Because, of course, he's the guy in the building that if you find a fucking abandoned animal, you bring him to Antoine.

48:33 Yeah.

48:33 Antoine loves animals. He'll help. Yeah. Bring the kitten up there. It's basically a tiger snack.

48:39 I mean, it's like he's got a tiger over here and then a tiny kitten.

48:42 Antoine named the kitten Shadow. And Shadow was kept in a separate bedroom from Ming, but the kitten escaped as they do. And Antoine had been with Ming at the time playing a game that they called Buddy Buddy. Don't know what that game entails.

48:57 That's too bad because then it's just what it suggests.

49:00 It's not great. No. When Shadow passes by the room, the kitten passes by the room, the tiger... as they like to do, lunges for the kitten. And so Antoine is like in a battle of good versus evil, trying to get his tiger to not eat the kitten. And so Antoine- this is what the world is like?

49:21 Totally.

49:22 What's happening? Antoine says, quote, I tried with all my might to stop him from getting this cat. So he pulled down one paw on my chest. I put my forearm up. He grabbed me real hard and munched on my arm. Then he grabbed my leg and If he didn't realize, hey, Ming, it's me, I would have been gone. So I think that instinctually, as the cat is trying to kill this kitten, Ming just got in the way.

49:48 But as soon as he realized, like, you're attacking the wrong person. Yeah. Which is kind of sweet that, like, the tiger was like, oh, shit, dude, I'm sorry.

49:55 But also, don't you think that's what the owner wants to believe?

49:58 Mo comes after me sometimes. He does that to other people. And when he does it to me, I'm like, bro. I'm the reason.

50:05 I'm the source of all that wet food.

50:06 You fucking live here.

50:07 Exactly.

50:07 Like, if it was Vince's idea and choice, you would be rehomed. So don't fucking come for me.

50:14 Don't even.

50:15 Like, I'm not that girl. Antoine is charged with reckless endangerment and the possession of a wild animal. He's released to await trial. A judge doesn't believe he's a flight risk and denies any request for bail. As Antoine is leaving the courthouse, he talks about Ming to reporters saying, quote, I never feared him at all. He was like my brother.

50:35 He was my best friend. He was my only friend, really.

50:38 Oh, no.

50:40 I know. Here's a photo of Antoine Yates coming out of the criminal court in Manhattan with his arm in a sling. Most of Antoine's family, friends, and neighbors seemed to be pretty much all on his side. One 62-year-old neighbor named Ricky Rich. Fucking great name.

50:55 Wow.

50:55 No, I'm sorry. Named Rocky Rich.

50:58 Oh, better. Yeah.

50:59 Well, sure. Sure.

51:15 But let's not be.

51:16 Let's do it in the wild, though.

51:18 Let's not understate things just to make them sound better.

51:21 Let's do it from afar.

51:22 Some people don't understand how when you get a tiger, you love it and it's your brother.

51:26 Right.

51:27 And it eats you.

51:28 Antoine is ultimately sentenced to five months in prison and five years of probation. Antoine's lawyer says this sentence is overblown and that if Antoine were white and had more advantages, he would not have served any time at all, which is probably true. Completely. Uh-huh. Antoine's mother, Martha, is initially given...

51:44 child endangerment charges over the question of whether her foster children were in close proximity to Ming. But those charges are ultimately dropped. I think there's no proof. And there's a ton of press coverage over this. Of course, the Daily Mail loves this story. It's like perfect for them. Ming passes away in 2019. at the age of 19, which is a typical tiger lifespan. Okay, good. At the time of Ming's death, Antoine, who's living with his mother in Philadelphia, chooses not to speak with the press. His mother tells a New York Times reporter who calls that he's out walking his dog and can't talk. So Ming is buried at the Hartsdale Pet Cemetery in Westchester. It's the nation's oldest pet cemetery and the final resting place

52:26 of many notable animals, including pets belonging to Mariah Carey and Diana Ross.

52:32 Oh, that's the place to go when you're grieving.

52:36 It's the Hollywood River Cemetery for New York famous people's pets. Wow. Right?

52:41 Okay.

52:42 So there's also a lion cub who was buried there named Goldfleck who lived with a Hungarian princess in the Plaza Hotel in the early 1900s.

52:50 Cool.

52:51 What was going on? She had rescued him from the circus, but he was in poor health and unfortunately died shortly thereafter. So, like, tell me everything about that princess.

53:00 I mean— Just legendary.

53:02 Yeah. Here's a photo of Ming's final resting place. He's got like a big, a big, nice, what's it called? plaque thank you nice big plaque honoring him a year after Ming's death in April of 2020 when New York is in the scariest part of COVID lockdown New Yorkers like everyone else find a welcome distraction with the Tiger King docuseries so epic it was.

53:25 So good such a time though it's like I don't think I could ever re-watch that.

53:29 We all went fucking bananas yeah for many reasons.

53:32 It was just like God damn, that's weird.

53:35 Yeah. The Times circles back to Antoine at this time to get his reaction to the show. He's not impressed. He says, quote, I was turned off by it. It just shows how ignorant these so-called exotic animal lovers can be, end quote. And that is the story of Ming Tiger of Harlem. Amazing.

53:54 I'm so excited that you did that.

53:56 We almost did that one live when we were in New York.

53:59 It's so good.

54:00 Yeah. Thanks, Allie, for that. All the research. Yeah, that was great.

54:04 So good. My God.

54:05 I know.

54:06 It's so crazy. And I didn't realize there were so many like, yeah, because obviously it's not just the attack. Then you have to get a gigantic Siberian tiger out of an apartment.

54:17 Yeah. Three tranquilizers it took to get this kitty cat down.

54:21 Yeah.

54:21 Yeah.

54:22 He wasn't messing around.

54:23 Oh, poor Ming.

54:24 So good. Great job.

54:26 Thank you.

54:27 Another great one.

54:28 Yeah, you did great, too.

54:30 You know, this is podcasting on a wooden table. I think this is.

54:34 This is finally. Can you feel it?

54:37 Real.

54:38 Let's have a seance. It's very much a seance table. It really is.

54:42 Yeah.

54:42 Proud of us.

54:43 We're going to call down the spirit of podcasting.

54:47 And say, what the fuck, dude?

54:48 And then say, stay sexy.

54:50 And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

55:03 This has been an Exactly Right production.

55:05 Our managing producer is Molly Smith.

55:07 Our consulting producer is Kate Schellenbach.

55:09 Our creative lead is Allison Agosti.

55:11 Our associate producer is Tessa Hughes, and our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

55:15 This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci.

55:17 Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin.

55:20 Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com and follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.

55:26 Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

55:31 Or watch new episodes every week on Netflix. Search for My Favorite Murder, add us to your list, and hit the double thumbs up button. Goodbye.