Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 105: Proclensity

0:06 Last Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

0:20 That's right, this is the show where we look back on our old episodes from twenty eighteen with all new insights and case updates and skincare routeens.

0:27 Today we're rewinding to episode very special, episode one oh five Legendary, which we named Proclensity. I remember really on one back then.

0:38 We do not have to rename this one. I mean, we'll try, but this was one of my favorite titles ever. This episode originally came out on January twenty fifth, twenty eighteen.

0:47 Oh we were babies. Let's listen to the intro of episode one oh five Proclinsity.

0:56 Wake Up.

0:59 Hello, good morning, good morning, and welcome to your favorite morning talk show, my favorite murder, the morning talk show that screams in your face to wake get down, get down, get up, get up, get.

1:12 Down, get back down, get back up again.

1:14 And you're like, what what do they want from me?

1:16 We want just we want just a couple crunches, easy, yeah, simple, just to wake you up, fun, fun and easy.

1:26 Get the blood going.

1:27 Yeah, burpiesld fucking start burping.

1:34 What if burpies were.

1:35 Not an exercise but just belching. I would be a fucking Olympian, you absolutely would.

1:43 You'd be internationally known. Are burpies the ones where you jump up and go down to push up and jump up. Because I was thinking of her keys, which is a cheerleading jump gone where you kind of look like a check you turn your body into like a check mark check.

2:02 And I was going to be like work it's such like, oh, you mean your legs go forward?

2:07 Check one leg got straight out and then the other leg comes up in your knee comes to your chest.

2:13 Don't say that. That's just back problems for your life. It's like this but in the air.

2:17 Okay, take it from me, everyone at home. I'm way up in the air.

2:23 She she just showed me one in the middle of the living room.

2:25 Was also what am I talking about?

2:27 I don't fucking know what a herky is.

2:30 Like, you're a cheerleader.

2:31 It's like I'm trying to get people to email us about things. I was a cheerleader, by the way, I was a song leader junior year of high school.

2:41 Oh my god. Those are the ones that like did routine.

2:43 Well, we were a small school, so we only had a certain amount of people anyway, But you know, we did dancer Team Janet Jackson's Control.

2:51 It's all about control, It's all about control. That's the only one I remember.

2:57 Just that we had, you know, gloves that were white on the inside and blue on the outside.

3:01 You're like blowing my mind.

3:02 So then you do a lot of this and you just switch it like a clown, white, like a mime.

3:08 But white blue, light blue, light blue. Oh, I realized, And one is this one is the way, So.

3:14 It's white blue. That's right.

3:15 Then change it up and then change it yeah, five, six, seven, eight, and uh, change it. And then this is my favorite murder. Put your gloves up your face?

3:28 Are they wider? Are they blue? Okay?

3:31 This is one of my favorite parts about having this podcast is I get random texts from my beautiful friends who listen to it, who take the time.

3:39 To listen to it.

3:39 Oh wow, And then but there they sometimes can be months behind. So the other day, my beautiful friend Sam Pancake that's his real name, who is who plays Dorothy in the Live Golden Girls that I told you about and loves some.

3:54 I have the mug thank you for being a cun that you got me.

3:58 It's the like Casita del Campo. They start did a new run of it. You really should go. But he sent me a text and all it said was fingers and faces and it made me last.

4:07 So fingers and Faces the best beauty shop name, the best worst beauty shop name of all time I ever heard of?

4:16 Just cut to the basics, fingers.

4:18 And Faces from the Live Orlan Show. And I'm sitting there reading my whatever one of us is ringing murder, and I just see in the audience, whatever fucking production had happened the night before. Maybe it was who could it have been? Let's say, someone like not too big, not too small, but so you've heard of him.

4:39 Maybe let's see it could have been you know, it could have been at like.

4:45 Who's the You might as well be walking on the sun. Smash out, thank you seven Maybe slash well.

4:53 You might as well be walking on the sun for all the good it'll do you.

4:57 You might as well well.

5:00 One sad fucking confetti piece that had been sitting there since the night before slowly falls into this lovely lady's laugh in the front row.

5:10 That's right. I was just like, it's like she was blessed or she's dead. I don't know. I mean, it could have been the death confetti.

5:17 That could have been the death, could have been so many things.

5:20 Dottie, what is Dottie arranging papers upstairs? Dotty is digging?

5:24 Uh, it's an inanimate object, Dotty.

5:28 You go for it.

5:29 Human sanitary all day.

5:31 The Joy Okay, got the Joy of Kittens, The.

5:34 Joy of Kittens, Joy fuck sex, The Joy of Kittens.

5:38 That's the illustrated book you need to be reading.

5:41 Do you know?

5:41 I have the Joy of Sex?

5:43 An old copy of Nandra to Use Books, and I was like, well, I'm absolutely buying us.

5:47 Does I did anybody write in it?

5:48 I don't know, do they write in it?

5:50 I mean, that's what That's the first thing I look for, is like somebody folded up a piece of paper and stuck it inside.

5:55 But try this with Gary. Maybe Gary will love you to ask Gary to please do this.

6:00 All I know is that we got me and my friend Katie Nuburger, who lived down the street. She's the one whose family had lamas and they had the old abandoned house on their.

6:08 Property with the bills and the walls. Yeah, I believe.

6:12 I'm almost positive it was at her house that we look through that book. Because her mom was also a nurse, and it was so we were starting to look at it like ooh, and the illustrations are so technical and like anatomical that we got bummed out very quickly.

6:29 It was not interesting. Maybe we should just go swimming instead.

6:32 It's like, and I said this last week, I talked about Reductress and they're hilarious t shirts. But they have one that's like, you know, and you see like a cow and it shows you the cuts of beef. It's one that's a vagina and it says the cuts of vagina.

6:45 No, it was just like the cuts. It's just in that style that's hilarious.

6:52 I just saw one of theirs on Twitter and it said girl who promised not to tell anybody only told two people.

6:59 And then it's the picture is so funny because it's a.

7:01 Girl whose face is right next to a bunch of flowers, like she's all smiling, all proud.

7:06 That's me. What about bitch, This bitch brought loose leaf tea to a fucking food donation. But it's just like some fun you can tell this bitch is like some hippie bitch. She doesn't wear makeup because she's gorgeous, not because yeah, yeah, this bitch loose leaf tea. What about where did I come from? Do you remember that book? Oh? Yes, dude with the fucking guy who looks like George Costanza and his wife actually looks like George Costanza's parents, and it's showing them having a baby, and my mind was blown.

7:37 Well, what about the part There is a part where they're explaining to their child about sex, and it's like they basically say they rub on each other really fast or something, And I just remember staring Steven Skinna have in a respect, can't talking Stephen Sarie is, Well, I'll tell you it's a fat little cartoon rub against each other.

8:02 It was very like I remember staring it and just being like, it can't be this.

8:06 Yeah, sex isn't just friction, right, it can't be this just this little man.

8:11 Oh, it was very confusing. It's a confusing time, the eighties.

8:15 The eighties and that age and like before you know and then what you think you know, and then when you find.

8:20 Out and how funny it is, but you still can't get rid of the things you thought you knew.

8:24 So it is still a little that and the thing I thought I knew is God can see me and it's wrong.

8:29 God can see you, but he's into it. Well, I'm sorry, blasphemy.

8:33 Is that what they're teaching in the temple?

8:34 God?

8:35 Damn it.

8:38 Shit, I'm going to Hell? Is there?

8:40 Hell?

8:40 I'm going there.

8:41 You don't think there's hell? Goodbye, goodbye Hell. There's something bye Hell? Goodbye Hell. See you deuce as hell.

8:50 He's out, motherfucker. What do you have that's sweet to talk?

8:55 Let's see besides friction frictional sex describing sex cartoons from the seventies. Well, this is a great email we got, hi, ladies, This is from Aaron High.

9:06 Ladies.

9:07 I was at the second Balbo Theater show back in October that's San Diego, right, and was happy to get a chance to listen to that first show that was recently posted. Oh it's not fun, of course, I do immediately google the Betty Broderick murder House. It's right down the street from me and up for sale. Some great realtors spin too quote a home rich in history, shut up as you have to tell right, it says have two point five million dollars lying around two.

9:37 Point five million dollars live in San Diego.

9:39 House. Yeah, and then she she listed it.

9:42 I could say the address right because it's an empty house. Yeah, I mean, like, or just so it's street, it's on It's on Cyprus Avenue.

9:50 Oh, where Van Morrison lives. That's a good cut. Yeah. Wow, that's kind of hilarious.

10:00 Would you move into a place like murders had happened there? Would you care? Like would you take have paws and ask your girlfriends over drinks or like would you be cool with it?

10:07 I think it just depends on the house.

10:08 Like, if it I think you'd have I would have to go in and like feel it out. But if it was some really old house, yeah, I don't know.

10:16 Say, like in the eighties or nineties, even there was a murder, even the two thousands heard of them.

10:22 I want it, you know what.

10:22 I'm being cavalier right now because I want to say I would. But I just thought of the first night in that house, and I would just be out of my mind.

10:30 I feel like I would be fine, But I bet I wouldn't. Any noise you heard, Yeah, but I don't care. I don't care that, do you? I mean, but if you alone in the house, I mean anything, I feel like Vince would be more creeped out than I would, and I would pretend that I was saying no to the house on his behalf, but really be because I was breaking out, but I couldn't admit it because I'm a murder podcast.

10:51 Yes, that's right. You have to use him as a human shield and you can.

10:55 Always and he can use me. That's why he wants.

10:57 When he came wrestling and can't talk about it, right, he's really painted himself into a wrestling corner.

11:02 He asked to love it for the rest of his life.

11:03 He There is no fucking doubt in my mind that that person, Vince Abril, the love of my life, will love wrestling for the rest of his life. It's going to two shows in the next two days, and is he really Yeah, it's there's no worry.

11:17 You know what's really hilarious.

11:18 So many people that I follow on Twitter love wrestling that I feel like I have a good historical back.

11:25 Log knowledge of. I mean, people post stuff.

11:28 You should start your own wrestling podcast.

11:30 Yeah, you know what, I will. I'm going to call it my favorite wrestling podcast.

11:35 Oh, I was going to say that this podcast I really like that. There's this new podcast. It's like all the ragey, kind of like Cereal. The new one, yes, called Atlanta Monster. Oh have you done it yet?

11:45 No?

11:45 Okay, So it's Payne Lindsay who did Up and Vanish recently, which is a really good one that was solved while he was doing the podcast. The girl, the woman in Georgia had disappeared.

11:57 Yeah.

11:57 So he's doing this new one called Atlanta and it's about a murder that you and I have never done for some.

12:03 Reason, atlanda child killer. Yeah, okay, here's Wayneylims.

12:07 I have wanted to do that one for so long. It is so fucking involved it is. And here's okay, I love that. I mean not love, but I am fascinated by that one because it's really old.

12:20 Yeah, that's like one of the earliest, like Bill.

12:23 Curtis seventy nine through eighty one. This dude killed and the number ranges, of course, but the number that they have is twenty two child murders.

12:31 Yeah, children in fucking three years.

12:34 But they that got him almost entirely on fiber evidence.

12:38 Yeah, and the way they caught him in the second episode, I won't say what it is. So it's episodic, which is so annoying because I want to fucking binge.

12:44 The shit out those two episodes.

12:45 But this story is so crazy, and of course it's there's so because the killer, Wayne Williams, is black. All of the kids who were killed were black, and they were from this poor neighborhood, and so there's a ton of race bullshit, which is really important and painlly was his interviewing people who were involved, so it's not like him, this white dude telling the story. It's like he's interviewing people who were.

13:09 There, so it's letting them tell the story. He's letting them tell the story.

13:12 Which is kind of a big part of it because also, you know, the racial tensions were building so crazy because they were like the police thought it was a white guy, because that's that was like the standard, right of there were I don't think up at that point there had been very many black serial killers, right, if any. It Also, it was always the profile was always young man, white man in it, and the black.

13:34 Community was freaking out that it was klu klux Klan, that it was racially based with like you know that they were taking their kids as so nobody nobody knew, right, but as we now know, and they say in the podcast, you know, killers don't really kill outside of their race, so we know that now.

13:50 But I'm really excited to keep listening.

13:52 I mean, it's that thing is so it's there's so many levels to it. The thing that's amazing though, is like that the idea that they got him on tiny tiny fibers and none of that has ever moved. Yeah, I mean maybe it has, or maybe he's looking into it and something else has come up.

14:11 But no, no, no, I think that's happening. But we're only an episode two right now, or it'll be three once.

14:15 And also the Red Flag have you ever gotten or already gotten to this thing of like that he had this a music studio for children to come and record in and he was like.

14:24 No, Lois found out who the person is in episode two. I'm on right now. We don't know anything, exam. Things are happening.

14:33 I'm going to join you because oh I was just gonna say I trust you now because I went home after our last recording and watched the End of the fucking World.

14:41 Dude on Netflix.

14:42 It's such a good you have to watch it. It's everything Georgia said it was and more. It's I binged it all at once.

14:49 I forgot to mention that thing.

14:50 So I was saying Wes Anderson, Harold and Maud, my friend Dahmer almost.

14:54 A little Oh yeah, yeah, it's just so gorgeous.

14:57 It's really well done. It's just those Brits. They know how to do some storytelling.

15:01 It's character by humor. Yes, oh it's so good. But those kids are such good actors. I'm amazing such I think I.

15:10 Never want to watch teens do anything. Announced teens were the exception.

15:15 They were it's such a good show.

15:17 Yeah, and watch it. At the end of the fucking world. Was she that kid whose dad was like, my son's missing and the cops were like, he's probably a runaway. And then I was like, fuck that shit, and hired a fucking helicopter and found his kids crashed in a car in a ravine, no live.

15:32 Thirty hours later. Shit, so like a couple of his kids were trapped in the.

15:36 Now it was just his son by himself. Yeah, oh my god. The helicopter search, search, found the kid crashed in a fucking ravine. Still like three hours later, He's like, holy shit, kid's not a fucking runaway.

15:47 I thought you were going to mention the alive still alive.

15:52 The kid was found alive, Yes, he survived. I thought you were going to talk about the three kids that escaped the house.

15:57 In Riverside County.

15:59 Jesus, we're twelve like children between the ages of nine and twenty seven chain.

16:05 To a wall like fourteen kids. Yes, and they're so amaziated they couldn't.

16:09 Tell how old they were in Riverside.

16:12 And also the.

16:15 My friend Karen Anderson's the one who told me to look at it, and she goes the data is so upsetting.

16:20 It looks like Jeff Daniels and dumb, dumb and duart.

16:23 No, and he totally has the weirdest things like page boy haircut.

16:28 It's very disturbing.

16:29 My parents look very problematic.

16:31 Yeah, and have proven to be right.

16:34 There's poor children like to be able to still in prison a twenty seven year old means you've had some fucking lifelong conditioning of this poor kid.

16:48 And we're back. God.

16:50 I was into her keys and all of those things that ended up becoming a part of the live show, pretending I could do it.

16:58 I had never known what I hurt, what it was because I wasn't because I was smoking in the in the smoking tree. That's right. Instead of being a cheerleader.

17:07 You were up speaker freakering and speaker teaker.

17:13 It's so funny, you know. I was thinking of recently speaking of the song routines. Don't have to tell you on this podcast ever, that like when I was like ten, my tap dance routine in front of all the parents that year in the auditorium, the teacher picked the song man Eater?

17:31 Was it you by herself?

17:32 No?

17:32 Like my class with like these like leotards on that had like you know, rhinestones and shit, and just these like skinny fucking preteen kids doing man Eater. Yeah, tap dance, so sexy, so sexy. She's no, she's not.

17:47 No, No, she's a she's in fourth grade. Leave her alone.

17:52 She's a child with a camel tooe. What are you fucking talking about?

17:56 Do you remember that show where the one piece of confetti came down?

18:00 Yes, God, it's a beautiful moment. How was that the hard rock? Right?

18:04 I think so? I think so.

18:07 I Mean that's the weird thing too, is like these old episodes where it's just like these polaroids of memory moments. Yeah, over a decade memory moments. Let's name this episode memory mon okay, perfect, over a decade for real. Oh, we talked about the Atlanta the Atlanta child murders. Yeah, because Paine Lindsay had done Atlanta Monster.

18:27 The podcast about it.

18:29 Yeah, it was so good.

18:30 I highly recommend it.

18:32 Still it makes me then think of sorry to skip around, but because I think we're pre Mindhunter. We're pre mind Hunter, which was the way they dealt with the Atlanta child murders.

18:42 Oh my god, do they deal with it?

18:43 You have to watch it. It's it's so good.

18:46 He plays the guy that they end up.

18:48 It's not an actor i'd know off hands, but the women who play the mothers where they're trying to get the fucking cops to listen. It is like it goes from that kind of thing, where as it often does in this in this genre, where it's like they're going and interviewing the different serial killers and you you're like, I know who that is, and then it turns into this thing where the mothers are like, you do not listen.

19:09 I've tried to tell you, like, it's not this guy, and it's going to keep happening.

19:14 That's just completely chilling.

19:15 You have to watch that season, all right?

19:18 Should we get into your story?

19:21 Yes?

19:21 Well you okay, this is Karen's story about the death of Christa Worthington.

19:32 You're first this week, I guess, I am yeah.

19:35 Is that correct? Yes, you're okay?

19:38 Okay.

19:39 So I have been on my couch. I sprained my right on Sunday.

19:46 Tell everyone I saw the bruise. It's fucked up.

19:49 It's I rolled my ankle. I've already sprained both my ancles twice. This is not I don't find talking about medical problems interesting at all, but this was kind of great because I was walking my dog's with my friend on He said, hey, did they redo that house? I look over my shoulder like it's a Genata commercial. Walking the dog. Want direction but looking backwards, and I'm like, madhouse over there, and just step like on the edge of the cement where the cement meets the grass, roll my ankle.

20:22 Listen to it snap.

20:23 My friend Don, who was behind me, said it turned it at a ninety degree angle and then I went down. He said it looked like I looked like a stunt woman. I went like I went down like hand hip leg like in a perfect line. He really liked it, but it I knew immediately that it was bad, and so I just got up and went in.

20:44 And couch good bye. Yes, I elevated iced whatever.

20:49 So tonight is the first night I have gone out and like driven, Oh no, it was fine. If it's if I keep it like, you know, wrapped insteadic.

20:59 So you had a long time to study.

21:01 I'm just get.

21:02 Really caught up and telling the whole story. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right. I'm trying to talk about this. So I've been laying in front on the couch. Now I'm talking about that as if you have a dream, what it's kind of a dream. Well, also I do it. Anyway, what I realized is this sprained ankle just made me go, you have to stop living. Like your ankle is sprained at the time, you.

21:21 Have to stop it. So what your ankle is not sprained, start living. They leave the house, go ahead and walk somewhere.

21:30 You know what. I guarantee they'll be sprained ankles in the future, or you're gonna be like I wish I had lived my life outside of this. Yes, I always would know that I'd be back here at some point you enjoying a sprained ankle, the couch is forever.

21:43 You might as well go get up and move around while you can't.

21:46 And I feel like up my body because I'm so indignant and I'm so like defiance disorder based. I feel like my body has to sprain my ankle like every eight months, just to be like, up off the couch.

21:58 Now, or get you really sick?

21:59 To be like, didn't you love to not be here right now in that fucking couch.

22:03 Stop living like you're sick and all of your joints don't work. Okay, But since I was okay, there is a Netflix movie called Murder on the Cape.

22:14 I don't know if you've seen it.

22:16 It of course immediately came up when it went onto Netflix in.

22:20 My suggestion netflick knows us.

22:22 What's amazing about it? Because I was and I think you and I talked about this a little bit, but I got really addicted to those Hallmark Christmas movies, yeah, over Christmas, because my sister kept putting them on as a joke, but then we'd watch.

22:34 Them for real.

22:35 I love that, and it was a Christmas is for it is right because it's you get like some hot chocolate.

22:41 We're all sitting on the couch, and then it's.

22:43 Just make fun of you.

22:44 It's blather.

22:45 Yeah, it's it's a guy in a huge sweater pretending he works at a Christmas tree farm, right really, and it's always then it's like, oh, she's really smart and type A, but she had to come to this small town to do something.

22:59 It's okay.

23:01 So I see Murder on the Cape and I'm like, that doesn't look like an actual movie and it doesn't look good, and I'm like, and also, I wonder which murder on which cape?

23:12 This is?

23:12 It checked all your boxes, right, but what's the thing?

23:15 It hurked all your bad It herkeyed right into all my boxes. But so I looked it up online first before I actually I didn't want to watch it cold. I didn't want to waste my time. And the first thing that came up was an article on Decider. The website Decider called, and the headline was Murder on the Cape is a bonker's crime story based on a true story.

23:35 So they had already watched.

23:37 It and reviewed it and were like, this thing is like the room basically. So I stopped reading that article because I didn't want to like in case I had some of the same thoughts.

23:48 I want to.

23:49 Say that I just read the headline and then the beginning of the description. I was like, Okay, I'm there a plagiarizing this. Yes, bonkers, amazing bonkers is my favorite. So funny. My friend Eric Dodurian on Twitter changed his name to Linda K. Bonkers on a lack every time I see it. Okay, So this and I highly recommend that you do your substance of choice, and that can be the Bible, it can be a glass of water, but do something to get yourself in the mood to accept what the television is giving you.

24:25 You could pour a glass of water on the Bible.

24:27 That could be your.

24:28 Thing, and then light it on fire. But what you should do is get some why.

24:33 Wine, wine or ginger all and southern comfort.

24:37 Okay, how about some Malibu coconut liqueur and a.

24:43 Fanta okay, lime okay, got it, Phanta lime and some.

24:48 And then a twist of lemon whatever it means.

24:54 Karen's just talking about her deathbed wish.

24:57 That's seriously make me a grasshopper. Ugh, I almost when when the Hawaiian nuclear strike thing came to it's like, I mean, I might as well just this is really bad.

25:12 But anyway point.

25:14 Being, I mean we all get it right.

25:16 Yeah, I'm going to be back on that or off that wagon the second I have a valid governmental reason.

25:24 The minute it happens, I'm gonna come over and be like.

25:26 Hey, what you doing with one of those huge bottles of champagne.

25:31 Well, I'm not going to bring it. I'm gonna let you because I don't want to enable you.

25:34 Oh you're just gonna discover me.

25:35 Okay, Hi, just wanted to check in on you.

25:38 And then you're gonna be like, that's weird. I guess I have a champagne too. It's gonna be a champagne party.

25:44 Okay.

25:45 So Murder on the Cape, the made for Netflix movie, is quite something and I highly.

25:52 Recommend you watch it.

25:54 It is very much like The Room meets a h It's almost for me. I would actually say more, it's not so bad as The Room, but there are definitely actors where you say, did you like acting before your friend decided to make this movie or is this something that was like you wanted to do that this weekend along with your friend who decided to make this. There's a lot of people making big choices, taken huge swings, really going for it.

26:24 There's a lot I can I could.

26:26 See in my mind's eye these actors going, Hey, hey, Chuck or whoever the director is, I'm really going to go for it this time.

26:34 They're like, this is what acting is. Ready, Yeah, I'm gonna.

26:37 Kick my leg and do a dance for some reason that doesn't actually connect with what my character is doing.

26:42 And I've seen it good, so that's cool.

26:46 The lead guy, I feel like I saw somewhere that somebody in this movie was in.

26:53 A soap opera sometime. Oh, that makes sense.

26:55 I didn't recognize anybody.

26:58 And the story, the way the Murder on the Cape story is told is very much against the victim.

27:04 In my opinion. It's very much.

27:06 Making her look like she tricked him in like and then I thought, oh, I should actually look this up and see if there's somebody that was in the real case that is connected writing this movie, because it's just just median quality enough, so pretty much anyone could have written it.

27:24 Fucking conspiracy theory on the Cape.

27:26 I mean, you never know, you have to watch it.

27:28 But she it's like she tricked him into sleeping with her, and then she tricked him into getting her pregnant, and then she and then like lurr, Yeah, there's it's a it's a very problematic presentation. So then I looked up the actual story because I'm like, that story sounds familiar, but it does not look familiar in Murder on the Cape.

27:50 And granted that they open it up by saying this is based on a true story, but I don't think they claim it is exact. Okay, Okay, So here's the real story, okay, and then you can hear this story, process it and the horror of it. Then like clear your palette and then go back and watch that thing as its own separate thing.

28:09 Pour your glass of water on the Bible, and then go watch it.

28:12 Click yeah, turn that TV on. Okay.

28:15 So this all takes place in a town called Truro, Massachusetts, which I reminded myself just it's like you're saying.

28:24 Truro, yeah the tea. So it's Truro tea true. T are you are? Oh? I believe whatever? That's not it true. That's not a word. The word is.

28:36 I'm at it.

28:38 Okay.

28:39 So it's nineteen ninety seven. And this is a tiny fishing village basically at the very top of Cape Cod, and it's busy in the summer obviously with the vacationers, but then in the winter it's dead and it's really cold except for all the fishermen and the families that live there, obviously. And a woman named Crystal Worthington moves there in nineteen ninety seven. She was very successful at the time, forty year old fashion writer. She's written for el Harper's Women's War Daily, the New York Times. She's also co authored books on fashion. She's a successful writer, and she had been writing internationally. She'd been doing stuff in Europe and basically living a very high stress kind of high fashion lifestyle, and so she wanted to get

29:28 away from that and go up to the Cape. So her family she came from a very prominent family, and her family owned a lot of different houses and places in Truro. When she moved there, she moved into a pink bungalow that was right next to the harbor master's shack, and a couple months later she moved out of that and into a larger house that her family owned. A really beautiful cottage. Me. Yeah, it's I mean, I looking at these places in that there's a forty eight hours that one of the main ones I watched is a forty hours eight hours all about it, And they just keep showing clips of like a ship just kind of going around like along the coastline and like you know, an icebreaker.

30:20 It's just like awesome looking.

30:21 However, two weeks till you're bored out of your fucking mind. I mean, twenty bucks, you know you got to have your Netflix. Got maybe like some crossword puss wi body out there.

30:32 Yeah, that's true.

30:33 That would make you nuts, right, you'd get you'd be getting on that jitney back into town. A couple a bunch of times. They're jitney from messages I've.

30:41 Never before, so I couldn't tell you.

30:43 Jitney is a word I learned from my New York friends.

30:46 They jump onto it to take It's like a little bus that drives strictly to like the Hampton's or something, oh from Manhattan or some like summer. It's the summertime, jitney, you go out to the beach.

31:03 All right.

31:04 So on January sixth, two thousand and two, twenty to five, in the afternoon, a guy named Tim Arnold, who is Krista Winnington's neighbor on the other side of the woods, drops by her house to return a flashlight, and inside he finds her dead body. She's been stabbed on the left side of the chest and she's on the kitchen floor.

31:33 Her two year old daughter, Ava is there next to her, clutching her.

31:43 So, yeah, she's been with the body for a while.

31:48 Tim grabs up at Ava and runs out, calls nine one to one.

31:52 Police come. They find that Chris has been stabbed through the chest.

31:57 The knife missed her heart, it pierced her lung, and she out on the kitchen floor. This murder is the first murder that Truro has seen in thirty years, so like nothing happens in this tiny town anyway, and like nothing like this, so of course everyone's freaking out, and you know they later on, the defense lawyer will claim that the EMTs were sloppy and.

32:26 Compromise the crime scene.

32:27 They did throw a blanket over Christa's body when they got there to cover her up.

32:33 She'd been raped, and.

32:37 Luckily the police did find DNA on her body that they ended up sending to the lab. So they knew that there was somebody else's DNA on the body and that could be a good lead. Unfortunately, the lab was insanely backed up. It was nineteen ninety seven, so this was like, you know. So they start talking to the people in Christa's life.

33:00 Talked to Tim Arnold, the neighbor.

33:01 They find out he wasn't just her neighbor, he was also her ex boyfriend. They dated for about a year. He says he has nothing to do with her death. Then, in talking to her friends, they find out that Ava's father is a married man who was born and raised in Truro.

33:22 And his name is Tony Jacket. What the fuck? Why do we keep getting these names? Jesus?

33:29 Now, it does have two teas, But I mean, that's right on par with Jimmy Buttons in terms of a noun.

33:35 Name Buttons, Jacket, there's an onion.

33:38 I mean it just as if this was writing, it would be lazy. But it's not. It's just how it happens.

33:46 So it turns out Tony Jacket he's lived Intror all his life. I'm only going to call him Tony Jacket the whole time. And he has six kids.

33:54 He's married, but.

33:57 And this is in the forty eight hours and his own account, he saw Krista when she moved into that pink bungalow right by the Harbormaster shack because he was working there as the fishing warden in the forty eight hours. He calls himself the fishing Warden. An article I found on ABC news dot Com referred to him, and I'm not joking as the Shellfish Constable.

34:21 Now, I don't know if.

34:22 That writer for ABC news dot com was bored and just being funny or.

34:27 Just reading cartoons. It sounds like a cartoon.

34:31 Or pitching an idea for SpongeBob SquarePants episode. Yes, where the Shellfish Constable rolls into town, me the same.

34:38 But if that's a cartoon, ma'am, it totally is.

34:43 In the movie, the Netflix film Murder on the Cape, the character that plays Tony Jacket's character is very ashame to be the Shellfish Constable and he's he was, i think a contractor and he couldn't get work, and so this was his way of like because they they're you know, having financial the families and financial problems.

35:03 He has six kids, so he had to you know, take the job anyway as he's working as a shellfish constable. He sees Krista this beautiful.

35:13 Very you know, very fashionable, very, you know all the pictures of her. She's just a gorgeous woman, and he's immediately they immediately hit it off and are attracted to each other.

35:23 And she's like this high society. He's just like gruff smell, kind of hot local.

35:28 Probably, yes, he's very He looks like he should have been like a third string character in the Sopranos. He has like big lips and squinty eyes and like combed back hair, very kind of like mambo Italiano.

35:45 I can't explain it. Got it and I'm not against it.

35:48 I'll say that, not judge, like get yours, get your sea constable.

35:54 Your shellfish constable Italian piece. So she when they first get together, Christa tells Tony she can't have kids. She's been told she can't have kids. They have their affair for a year. They end up breaking up. In the film Murder on the Cape. They make it look like she won't leave him alone and is like always trying to be in his business and finding him at the grocery store and stuff where I'm like, prove that it seems like she had plenty of dudes in her life and it wasn't desperate lettus.

36:29 Where else is she gonna go? And it's a tiny, truly tiny town.

36:33 Right, guy, run into my fucking ex at the grocery store and this is fucking Los Angeles for real? Maybe he's talking me. I actually don't run into my ex.

36:42 I have never run into anyone I didn't want to run into in this so I swear, and I have to knock on woodenow. Why would I ever say that out loud? No, I just want like open the nightmare door.

36:55 Basically, Oh, next week's gonna be fun. Let me talk about who you run into?

37:01 Yeah? Yeah, Oh, I better start wearing so much mass scart, make constant constant makeup.

37:07 It'll be so different. Okay.

37:11 Basically, she comes to him and says, I'm pregnant and it's your baby, and he's like, you told me you couldn't have babies, and then she's like, well, it's miracle and that's why I'm keeping it. I don't care what you say, and I don't you don't need to be a part of it. Yeah, and he is, he said. In the forty eight hours he was like, I was dumbfounded, and he kind of thought she tricked him. But she goes on and has her life and starts to raise her bait her daughter Ava herself. But at some point she asked Tony not only to pay child support, but she wants him to tell his wife that he has a daughter. So Tony actually ends up. Tony Jacket ends up telling his wife of like, how many years of six kids and years that he had an affair.

37:59 And now he has this.

38:00 Jackets, The jackets sick, the jackets come off.

38:06 The jackets had to come off that night.

38:10 So so basically, his wife Susan of course is very upset at first and live it at him, but then it basically they all. She ends up meeting Krista, and Krista comes over for dinner and brings the baby and they start to make it work.

38:25 Susan.

38:26 Susan herself tells the story in the Forty eight Hours.

38:29 Men are the best people.

38:30 Women are just like, this is a kid that is not gonna like have her life be bad because.

38:36 Because of because of fucking Jackets.

38:38 Over here, because of Captain Jackets, I fucking married oh.

38:43 Man, so so and she says she actually liked her, and basically I know.

38:51 But but also Susan provides Tony's alibi. He was home with her the night of Christa's death. Okay, so the police are like, it's all a little weird.

39:02 Yeah, But then they also discover Christa was having issues with her seventy seventy two year old father.

39:10 They were, you know, as I said, like this prominent family, and apparently the seventy two year old father now had a twenty nine year old girlfriend. Her name is Elizabeth Porter. She had been a sex worker, and she had been a heroin addict and now she had gotten her life together and she was dating the love of her life, seventy two year old dad.

39:32 You're embarrassing me.

39:34 And Krista was like, you are spending too much money on this woman. And then they cut in the forty eight hours. They fucking do a hard cut to this woman, Elizabeth Porter, walking down like a courtroom thing, and.

39:47 She goes, yeah, I like to take pictures.

39:49 I mean, don't yet, and she has like this insane cigarette voice and she's just yelling at all the cameras at once.

39:55 Oh holy my god, not handling her shit at all.

39:59 So he wasn't. No, I've met this classy dame and listen, I'm not talking shit on her being a sex worker or a hameron addict.

40:05 Date a sex worker and.

40:06 Hairy and addict, but a twenty nine year old and a seventy two together year old don't belong together.

40:11 I mean, you don't know any of the same references. No, you don't use any of the same emojis.

40:16 No, or hair products or gifts or anything.

40:20 You don't listen to the same podcasts.

40:23 I mean, overall, the rule is don't date someone younger than your children. Yeah, I'm madly dad for being a fucking creep azoid, But.

40:31 I mean I know a lot of people that have had that happen where they're like and now my stepmom's.

40:36 Than that's just like an obvious no. I know, I shouldn't say a lot of people.

40:41 I know one person, and great, if you knew a lot of people, that would be so impressed.

40:45 These are the tiny ways I constantly lie.

40:48 It just comes out as a lot of people and I'm like, just the one, but they're not.

40:52 Hurting anyone because I'm like cool, tell me.

40:56 But so that was actually they were like, well this this could actually be if she because she was complaining to her father and basically saying stop spending money cut her off. So then and you know, so it does become and it sounded like it was this thing where this is almost like a vacation town. It's the elite, the people with the money in the town, and then the people who make the town.

41:20 Go right, and they all kind of hate each other.

41:22 I mean, it could it all could get real, you know, yeah, whose verses them? So the police are just like, it can be anybody.

41:29 So they're thinking dad's girlfriend hired someone to kill her.

41:34 Maybe, or they're just looking at that girlfriend that she doesn't have the best background and she would have reason to get rid of her, to be like, yeah, I want to keep my money source open.

41:44 God my dad is poor, because otherwise it does solve a lot of it. Yeah, no one's gonna date. No twenty nine year ods gon to date unless're in love with him and they have my fucking blessing.

41:54 And that's nice.

41:55 I know it would be nice.

41:56 I'm happy made okay, might so they got the police. There's so much going on now and there's so many suspects. The police go to the FBI to get help and to get a profile drawn up. The profile that the FBI gives them doesn't help them, it does, they don't have anybody that matches it.

42:17 Finally, a year after.

42:20 Chris's murder, Laberzelt's come back and they find out the DNA that they found on her body doesn't match any of these suspects. So none of these ex boyfriends, nobody, and they're like, what the fuck? So they have to start all over against So what they decide to do is ask for the DNA of every man who lives intro.

42:41 Holy shit.

42:43 And there's a reporter in this forty hours who was like the reporter from day one who was told his whole story.

42:50 Yeah, and he was like, well then that was just crazy. And then it just you. Clearly they have nothing, and they're just like trying to do whatever. But how many men? How many men are we talking? I don't know offhand, all right.

43:01 I normally I would have lied, but I say, let's just go ahead with fifteen thousand, because it's fun and it's a it's a good number.

43:12 It's a really small town. Let's say two hundred.

43:14 Okay, let's say between two and one hundred and nine thousand.

43:20 Great, okay.

43:21 So two and a half years later, the DA Michael O'Keeffe announces they've gotten.

43:25 A match back from the DNA and.

43:28 Some idiot killer gave them their DNA.

43:31 Well, yes, and it leads to the arrest of a suspect named Christopher McGowan. He is her garbage man, so police first bring him for questioning. The police say, do you know Krista Worthington. He says no, I just know she's a stop on my on my garbage route, but I've never met her and I don't know her. And they say, okay, well we found your DNA on her body.

43:58 Now what do you have.

43:59 To say And he says, well, actually I went to her house on Thursday, which is the day that he picks up the garbage at her house, and then I went inside and we had consensual sex. And then he says he went back Friday, had sex with her, then beat her, but his friend Jeremy Fraser was there. His friend Jeremy Fraser started beating her up and then he left and Jeremy Fraser is the one that stayed and killed her. What well, the police are like, well, that's a great story, except for Jeremy frad your friend, Jeremy Fraser, your good.

44:37 Friend that you're setting up for this murder.

44:40 None of his DNA is anywhere in the house, and there's no way to prove that he was ever anywhere.

44:45 There, Oh my gosh.

44:46 And so then basically, after a six hour interrogation, he signs a waiver that says he doesn't want a lawyer, and then he confesses.

44:54 To the murderer.

44:56 So this guy does the same guy.

44:58 Christopher McGowan, the garbage manka. So basically the prosecution so the trial starts. The prochues and tells everybody that Christopher McGowen went out with his friend Jeremy Frasier and they got drunk and then at one am he drives up to her house, rapes her and kills her. But Christopher McGowan's defense attorney is a guy named Bob George. He claims Christa had consensual sex with him gowen on Thursday, the day he brought he picked up the garbage, then he left, and that her murder took place somewhere between Thursday and then when her body was found on Sunday, and that it hit his client had nothing to do with it, God damn it. He also suggested that christophermergowan and Christa Worthington could have been having a consensual affair

45:50 for a while, and that it was just the elitists of this town that didn't believe that a white woman who is this fancy fashion writer could be having a consensual affair with a black man who is the garbage man. He also submitted that McGowan's IQ was in the low seventies, and so that's why he waived the right for the lawyer.

46:15 He didn't have. He had no chance once he was in the police.

46:18 But he basically said, but then, you know, so he's basically saying his IQ is really low, so he was tricked into all of this and he's just basically the perfect patsy. Well, then the prosecution comes back and says he's smart enough to have lied to say he didn't know her.

46:36 You know, there's like a lot of evasion tactics or whatever.

46:38 So he clearly it is not just because he didn't score well on that IQ test doesn't mean that he isn't tricky in doing whatever you want. The defense also alleges that the crime scene was totally contaminated by sloppy EMTs because those amts came in and put a blanket on Chris's body when they first saw her, and so the DNA who knows she's DNA, was on that blanket. Whatever, they kind of just keep introducing reasons to doubt. So Krista had an ex boyfriend who lived in Manhattan who was in this forty eight hours who says if Krista was having an affair with the garbage man, because he had visited her two weeks before her murder, and he said, that would have been the first thing she said when I walked in the door, because she would have loved

47:29 that story.

47:29 She would have been very proud of it.

47:31 If she was having some kind of like, you know, it's not May December, but it's like the wrong side.

47:38 Of the tracks affairs. She was the kind of person I would love to talk about that. So up until two weeks before her murder, that was not happening. So he basically kind of it was interesting when he talked about that, where it's like you can totally see that basically.

47:54 The trial goes the on November sixteenth, two thousand and six, he's found guilty. Christopher McGowan is found guilty of firstgre murder with extreme atrocity, aggravated rape, and aggravated armed burglary, And after the verdict is read, Christopher McGowan makes a statement to the court where he says, quote, I never meant for this to ever take place, and then after he says that he claims to still be innocent.

48:21 Wow, which is a really weird way to say it.

48:24 If you're innocent, he is serving three concurrent life terms in prison without the possibility of parole.

48:31 So after all of that, the verdict comes down.

48:35 In January of two thousand and eight, several jurors came forward and claimed that there was a racial bias in the jury room during the deliberations.

48:43 So all twelve jurors got called back.

48:45 To court by that judge and they all were questioned over those claims, and their testimony revealed that there was racial tension in the jury room. So because of that, Christoph mc gowan's lawyer used that information as a ground to file an emotion for a retrial, but that was struck down, as have all three appeals that McGowan's defense attorneys have filed on his behalf since he got sentenced.

49:11 And then in twenty twelve, the defense attorney Bob George was convicted of money laundering and he himself served three years in prison.

49:22 What yes, so the very much.

49:29 I mean, I don't know. There's a lot of things that get introduced in this case, in this forty eight hours that that defense attorney Bob George, he actually did a really good job of introducing all these possible.

49:45 Doubts in this case.

49:47 But at the end of the day, it's DNA, yeah, and his was the only DNA on her.

49:54 Body, and she was raped and murdered, and she was raped and murdered, which would have meant there would have been someone else's DM.

50:00 Right, Yeah.

50:02 Yeah. And it's funny because that forty eight hours is kind of old, and they it's interesting how it feels like they keep pointing to this idea that she quote had a lot of boyfriends, that that seemed to be at play in the way people kind of like judged.

50:17 This, yeah, that, and like she had an affair with a married man where it's like, yeah, she was not to be trusted, yeah yeah, or there.

50:27 Was I don't know, it's it's a I didn't like I didn't.

50:31 Like it, and the movie did that too.

50:33 The movie was crazy.

50:34 The movie was all about fucking Tony Jackets, the will, the character that was representing him, and like how tough his life was and how these all these women were making his life really tough. And there's her baby. You have to see you have to see it. It's pretty amazing. And there's also the casting is fucking fascinating. The woman who plays Tony Jacket's wife.

50:58 A couple of times, I was like that bridge at Everett, you know, the comic bridge, because it looked like her and it was this kind of like everything had.

51:07 A it was right on the verge of being campy. Yeah, and then would just come back every time too boring.

51:12 When they made the movie, did they know who the killer was? And then they showed that's what happened?

51:19 Yes, although I'm pretty sure I fell asleep before the end of the movie because how.

51:24 Can you have victim bland throughout a movie and then it turns out it's just some fucking other guy psycho murderer. Yes, you know what I mean, which has it wouldn't matter if she was let's say, promiscuous or not. I'm not saying she was, but it wouldn't fucking matter.

51:37 It doesn't matter anyway, Like that thing that happened happened. That's the case that needs to get sold. I mean it's crazy. Yeah. I think at the end of this thing it's there. They leave it super vague like.

51:51 Maybe he didn't right, No, he did.

51:54 Yeah.

51:54 But I recommend everyone go because it's this bizarre crossroads of It's almost like every bad reenactment you've ever seen if all the reactors had lines where it's like, you know what, play with this scene and figure out what happened with you guys.

52:08 I want to see crazy.

52:09 Susan Jackets gets her group back, or she leaves her fucking chat and her husband goes to an island.

52:16 Is it Susan, it's Susan Jackets, It is now Susan Jacket. It's crazy. But the little girl.

52:23 The good news is the little girl went to live with the person that that Krista Worthington chose to be her good to be the Guardian, which is a good friend of hers. But Tony Jackets and Susan have visited her and now she's like, uh in college O good and she's doing great.

52:46 Honey, yeah, fly, you're you're a bird. Fly I don't know. Spread your wings, you know, that's my words of encouragement.

52:55 I bet that'll work.

52:58 Spread your you know, spread your wings and wow, crazy, I'm me. It's almost like a good thing that your ankle got twisted.

53:06 When I go ahead and say, so, what'st a good thing that I watched TV twenty four hours a day.

53:11 Finally something good came out of it. Okay, we're back, Karen, Any updates?

53:20 Yes.

53:21 So in twenty twenty four, Christopher McCowan requested that a sweater that the police had had since two thousand and five be forensically tested for DNA and have fabric analysis conducted because it was worn by Jeremy Fraser, who Christopher maintains is the one who killed Christa. So the results about that testing have not been made public. And basically that's all that's happened in that case.

53:47 Wow, I wonder if we're gonna hear anything I know soon. Here's the thing.

53:51 We got to get to the story that the story that went on the books a legendary of one.

53:58 I can't believe I snapped this one right out from under you.

54:01 You really like you really did.

54:03 But maybe it was more fun for me that way, because then I just got to be told and just participate like totally.

54:08 I think you would have like obsessed over every little aspect.

54:11 Then you wouldn't have had so much fun.

54:12 Would I?

54:13 Though doesn't seem like I ever have. It doesn't sound like it doesn't really.

54:18 Okay, let's get into Georgia's legendary retelling of the story of typhoid Mary.

54:29 All right, my murder. Okay, So you know I'm obsessed with fucking infectious diseases and plagues and flu epidemics.

54:41 Oh you know I love all this shit, right sure, that's my passion illness.

54:46 Uh huh like end of days shit, great level stuff. Okay, and right now the flu right now, in mid January twenty eighteen, the flu is already eat an epidemic this year, which is fun. I just got a shot, did you get?

55:05 Oh good?

55:06 I think it's irritated and I'm gonna die.

55:09 But anyways, well at least you won't have the fluid you die exactly.

55:15 So on that note, because it's so fun, I thought I would do, uh, you know, our good friend typhoid Mary. Nice.

55:27 Here we go.

55:29 In the summer of nineteen oh six on Long Island's Oyster Bay.

55:34 Have you been there? I haven't.

55:35 I think they take one of those little trains, a jitney to get there, right, I don't know nineteen o six a jitney.

55:43 Did they have cars?

55:44 It was made of straw, don't know, maybe a horse jitney. So Long Island's Oyster Bay is the tony playground of New York's rich and famous Teddy fucking Roosevelt, none other than had his summer white House.

56:00 Oh all fucking rich people.

56:02 Sure, and everyone freaks the fuck out when in a span of just one week, six of the eleven people in the home of wealthy banker. Also he's the banker to the Vanderbilts. Even Charles Warren's household comes down with typhoid fever while they're there on vacation.

56:19 Typhoid is a bacterial.

56:21 Infection let me tell you about it, due to salmonilla typhee. And it's viewed back then as a disease of the crowded slums and tenements, which we'd love to talk about. Yes, in New York, it's associated with poverty, the lack of basic sanitation. Immigrants assume to live in disease.

56:39 Written. Crowded housing our.

56:41 Scapegoats of typhoid, So when a rich fucking family gets it, it's bananas. Typhoid is one of the twentieth century's most terrifying killers because an infection could spread through a house before anyone knew what was going on. The first week, the infection seems almost you know, like just the regular food.

57:01 Then there's the fever or some abdominal cramping, but nothing really crazy to show that it's typhoid. And then during the second week, fever goes crazy, the patient becomes delirious, blood clots form under the skin, the entire abdomen becomes distended.

57:16 Ooh.

57:16 The third week inflammation of the fucking brain and intestinal hemorrhaging, intestinal hemorrhaging, and the death rate of those infected is anywhere between one in ten and three in ten. So it's really easily spread by eating or drinking food or water contaminated with the feces of infected persons.

57:38 So think about that.

57:39 In the nineteen hundred, really nineteen hundreds, you know, when they didn't like wash their hands and stuff and like water wasn't you know, cleaned and should and they all lived in like houses and stuff that were all you know.

57:52 Yeah that, I mean that was back still when people get up and just pee in a bowl under the bed, right right, just like slash it back under it.

57:59 Probably throw it out the window.

58:01 Sure is that when they threw stuff out the window, throw the baby out with them?

58:04 Probably? Man, I bet, I bet they did. Let's say yes, But I like the idea that people would do it in rich houses, scad They didn't.

58:12 So that's the thing, Okay, like they did it. So it was really weird that this typhoid was an outbreak in a rich house. So people were that's why on Oyster Bay they were like, this is a fucking something's wrong.

58:26 Not here, not in my family, not in my backyard right.

58:28 Not in the tony playground of the rich and famous. Well no, no, but in nineteen hundred it killed thirty five thousand Americans. There's no cure, Antibiotics didn't exist, and a vaccine was not yet available.

58:42 So scary.

58:44 So the Charles Warren's landlord was freaking out that the family outbreak would prevent him from leasing his summer house again. He thought they were burned it to the fucking ground because of typhoid. So he was like, fuck the shit. He hires freelance sanitary engineer George Soper.

59:00 A freelance sanitary engineer, doctor George Sofer, okay, which.

59:04 Is like you sound fun at parties. You sound like you have a made up job. Uh, it's called the janitor.

59:13 No. No, He's like, he investigates sources of typhoid fever outbreaks to determine the cause. Like he's the dude who hous like doctor house, He's fucking house. He's like, come over to my house, figure out what happened here? Okay, Like why is everyone sick? He's the dude who figures it out?

59:30 Like what was his name again?

59:32 George Soper, doctor George Soper? Okay, so he's like he's like, what's his name? The detective Colombo Charlock Calms.

59:42 Can you.

59:45 Can leave that pardon? He's like the Columbo Sherlock Holmes of.

59:50 Diseases okay, okay, of I was gonna say diarrhea.

59:54 What we don't use that word. No, we do use that word. So everything, So super tests everything. He's like super excited about gross stuff. Apparently he tests the house plumbing, local shellfish company. Everything comes up negative for typhoid. But then he looks into the cook who had worked for the Warrens weeks before the outbreak, and discovered that a female Irish cook who fit the description of a cook who had worked in other households where typhoid had broke out broke out, no, broken out, the pass that she had worked there right before everyone fell ill of typhoid, and had also just cooked for the Warrens.

1:00:35 So I don't know why you to hire an Irish cook. We can't fucking cook like red potatoes.

1:00:46 But I think that back then they liked the simplicity.

1:00:48 Of it all.

1:00:49 Oh man, such a bummer. I mean that.

1:00:54 Fucking amazing to me. That's all I want is pot roast and red potatoes. Are you serious with some horse radish?

1:00:59 Yeah?

1:00:59 What about jello with fruit cocktail floating inside of it? Fruit cocktail?

1:01:04 Yes?

1:01:04 Yeah?

1:01:04 And then of course my grandma special what did she put on it? Thousand Island dressing?

1:01:09 Yeah?

1:01:10 Hard stop, that's uh an iceberg lettuce?

1:01:14 No, that's Irish cookie. My friends, do you know what I want?

1:01:17 I want iceberg lettuce one thousand island and I want jello with fruit cocktail.

1:01:20 I don't want them to meet each other.

1:01:22 Well, sorry, my grandma says, you have to and that's my job to make it happen, and.

1:01:26 You have to finish it. You do, I mean fair enough.

1:01:32 She forced us to eat spinach as tiny babies, and very few of us have ever broken a bone spinach.

1:01:39 But you fucking twist her ankle. All that got down time I roll it, but it don't break. Grandma. Okay, grandma bo he was okay. So he can't find her because she left after the After every outbreak, Brigran begins. She fucking laters out of there. It doesn't give a fording a dress. Soaper learns of an active outbreak and a penthouse on Park Avenue where two of the household servants were hospitalized and the young daughter of the family had died of typhoid.

1:02:05 Oh no, and she.

1:02:07 And he discovers sober discovers that the family cook was the same woman who had cooked for the other families. It's forty year old Irish immigrant Mary mallin.

1:02:17 H Mary, wash her hands. Mary there, I go, oh doing Mary? What does she say? And she says, ah, I just need to start the soup with my hand real quick. I can't do it. No, you're gonna do it. This whole fucking story, we need it, Okay.

1:02:32 Soaper starts stocking Mary Mallin and tells her, and he tells her she's transmitting disease and death by her job. But he sounds very bad at like telling people things and explaining in a calm, like you know, self possessed manner to an Irish immigrant, probably because he had some prejudices against Irish people.

1:02:51 So do you think he was like too nervous to tell her? He was like screaming.

1:02:55 I think he was screaming in her face this thing of transmitting disease and death, and she's this like Irish emery was like, what are.

1:03:01 You talking about?

1:03:02 Ah ah. So he didn't explain to her how she, as a woman who was perfectly healthy, could be infecting others with typhoid.

1:03:12 He attempted to.

1:03:13 Get and then and then he goes on to attempt to get samples of Mary's feces urine and blood. I think just by yelling in her face that he needs samples of her feces urine and blood.

1:03:21 Jesus Mary and Joseph Mann get away from me.

1:03:24 Yeah. Not surprisingly, this just pissed Mary off, and one time she chased him away with a large kitchen fork when he tried to come get her face.

1:03:32 Get out of here, I don't know, that's my Irish. Get out of here, Get out of it, Get out of the kitchen. Now. You always have to start way high and then go down really low.

1:03:41 Okay. Since Mary refused to get samples, he decided to compile a five year history.

1:03:47 Of her employment.

1:03:49 He found that of the eight families that had hired Mary Mallin as a cook, members of seven of those families claimed to have contracted typhoid fever, even though Mary had never shown signs of the ailment. With this, Soper becomes the first author to describe a healthy carrier of Salvonilla TYPEE in the United States. So the person who can carry it never get ill by it, but pass it on to other people.

1:04:12 She's basically immune to this thing she has, but she has is giving it to everybody else.

1:04:18 And part of her argument is like, well, I'm fucking fine, it can't be me getting it to anyone.

1:04:22 Right, so also, and let me use my whole arm ast.

1:04:27 And I just want to stir this fucking stew.

1:04:29 I just want to touch the bottom of the pan.

1:04:32 With my fingernail. I put this under my fingernails and put it into the stew.

1:04:36 What's the big deal? What is the problem my fingernail?

1:04:39 Ladle right without washing my hands. Okay, let me tell you about Mary. Mary Mallin was born in September of eighteen sixty nine in Cooks County, Cookston County, ty Tyrone, Cookston, Let's call it, a small village in the north of Ireland that was among one of Ireland's poorest areas. She immigran to the United States in eighteen eighty three at the age of fifteen. Her aunt and uncle, who she had been living with, died, so she was living in swaller squalid housing in the Lower East Side fending for herself.

1:05:11 She found work as a domestic servant, and apparently her proclensity in the kitchen led.

1:05:19 Her to be a cook, so she was somehow what in the kitchen? I don't know. I've copied and pasted a word that I never used. Proclensity.

1:05:25 Propensity, clensity, proclensity. That's a word.

1:05:31 I don't think it is shit. Hold on, I refuse I cot it and pasted it.

1:05:36 Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:05:38 It sounded so good and I was gonna it kind of was like a combination of propensity and de clencho.

1:05:44 But I'm almost positive.

1:05:45 When your search proclesity did not match any such talk with her propensity. Is that right? Well, I'm never copying and pasting from Wikipedia again.

1:05:57 Odd, So it's not there's no, yeah, there's no, it's propensity or that's like it the.

1:06:02 Correction, the correct Oh yeah, maybe they just the correct word is propensity.

1:06:08 Fuck all right, I'm not hitting that out because this is who I am. I'm in a fucking show. Sometimes we get words wrong. It's okay, my pro cleanston in the kitchen. It sounds like pro clemston. Sounds like a like for men who are losing their hair.

1:06:27 Yeah, shampoo, take mint pro clenston every night, right, Okay.

1:06:32 In nineteen hundred, she worked in Mammaronic New York. Heard of it, nope, where within two weeks of her employment, residents developed typhoid fever. In nineteen oh one, she moved to Manhattan, were members of the family whom.

1:06:45 She worked for developed fevers and diarrhea.

1:06:48 That's a bummer to happen at the same time Yeah, that's horrible. You don't know what's happening and you have diarrhea. Right, she's a laundress died there.

1:06:55 Oh no, there's name.

1:06:56 They don't mention anywhere, which is like, listen, she's someone too, that's right. And then Mary Mallin goes on.

1:07:03 To work for a lawyer.

1:07:05 She left after seven of the eight people in that household became ill.

1:07:08 She fucking laters. Did she keep leaving though? I don't know? She thinks she's so innocent. Well, it's so it's.

1:07:15 Hard to tell because it's like, did she leave because everyone got sick and so the house stood still and they didn't need anyone? Or what did she need.

1:07:23 Help the most?

1:07:23 It's true chicken soup doesn't cook itself. Yeah, to stir itself, Jesus Christ.

1:07:32 Okay, chicken soup can't stir itself without an arm, and it can't walk upstairs.

1:07:37 Exactly, So okay.

1:07:40 So then in nineteen oh six she goes to Oyster Bay and within two weeks ten of the eleven family members are hospitalized with typhoid. Changes job again, same thing happens, cooks for the Warren, Same thing happens the Bobbery blah okay. Doctors theorized that Mary Mallan likely passed typhoid germs by failing to vigorously scrub her hands before handling food. Usually, the elevated temperatures of cooking food would have killed all the germs and bacteria and shit. But then they found out that Mary Mallin's like most popular dish. Her specialty was ice cream that she cut up raw peaches into and froze so nothing had gotten cooked. Oh can you imagine those.

1:08:26 Wet fucking peaches with her little.

1:08:28 Like cutting knife under and all the nail under her nail stuff.

1:08:32 As she's cutting peaches, she's also cutting a little bit of her finger along with.

1:08:38 Ye oh god, she.

1:08:42 Had a real pro quansity for cutting up her own flesh.

1:08:45 I can't believe I got that word.

1:08:51 Okay, the New York Health the New York City Health Department. Finally they try to get her to chill the fuck out, and she won't. Finally they sent position.

1:09:00 She won't. She's like, fuck you and everyone must cook.

1:09:03 She's like an angry, an angry woman.

1:09:06 She had to fight for her, uh, like her life livelihood. You didn't have anybody, nobody, it reminds So.

1:09:13 I just started watching Alias Grace, which you had talked about liking, and it reminds me of like she came over on a ship in that fucking in that nature of absolute bullshit and yeah she's like, fuck you, I'm working to like live my own life.

1:09:27 I mean it's those The ship journey alone was so upsetting for most people coming to this country, traumatizing, just horrifying. And then they show up and then it's like, I hope you have a job.

1:09:38 Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah.

1:09:40 Also you don't wash your hands enough. Yeah that's what are you're talking about?

1:09:43 You know what that reminds me of real quick.

1:09:45 Yeah, when I lived in Scotland, there was a commercial that was on like UK TV, and.

1:09:51 It was are you a washer or a walker?

1:09:54 And it was just a ca It was pretend camera, like hidden camera in a bathroom to see a p People walked up, checked their face and walked away, or washed their hands and walked And since that commercial, I think before that, I was very like, Nah, who cares one way or the other?

1:10:09 I know if I need to wash my hands.

1:10:11 Since that commercial, I've oh, I washed my hands every single time.

1:10:14 You just can't trust door knobs.

1:10:18 You just can't trust door handles.

1:10:19 You just should wash your hands as much as possible. And I do.

1:10:23 I mean you don't go out of your fucking mind. I do, but like, do your best.

1:10:29 Don't be a walker, That's all I'm saying.

1:10:31 My dad every he won't sit down and will go to lunch anywhere. He had just gone out of his car. He hasn't touched anything.

1:10:38 He won't.

1:10:38 He's kind of has OCD though, but he'll go wash his hands before like every time. You can't even start talking to him. Oh wow, wash his hands.

1:10:45 I wonder if that's like, if his parents are really strict about that, like before eating.

1:10:50 Yeah, maybe it's a good idea.

1:10:51 Every once in a while, I'll look at my hands, especially when I was wearing cheap jeans. Oh no, there's nothing worse than having dirty hands as an adult at like a meal.

1:11:02 Putting a food thing into your mouth and being like, when was the last time I washed my hands? That's my fucking thing of like, and then there's will be so many times you can go, well, I'm strengthening my immune system.

1:11:13 Well, most of the time you're not.

1:11:15 You're just putting someone else's fucking urine hands in your fucking mouth and from the door knob.

1:11:21 We'd all have much stronger immune systems if that really was right.

1:11:24 I have a bit of an OCD about washing hands.

1:11:28 Well, you're Marty's daughter.

1:11:29 I'm Marty Satter thrown through a hard stark. Doesn't let her hands, doesn't mess, does not mess.

1:11:35 Okay.

1:11:36 So New York Sitales sends in physicians Sarah Josephine Baker to talk to Mary.

1:11:42 So the singer. Yeah, right, almost, it would be amazing at night. She was just amazing, Dan hands. That's not good.

1:11:51 Baker said that by the time she was she said quote, by that time, she was convinced that the law was only persecuting her when she had done nothing wrong. So Mary was like hardcore, fuck you, Yeah, we're like that. Yeah, Baker's so this chick. Sarah Josephine Baker her own father and brother had died of typhoid when she was young, and so she had felt pressure to support her mother and sister financially. So at sixteen years old, she decided on a career in medicine. Wow, and this is like the early nineteen hundreds, Ladies and hundred.

1:12:23 This chick is a bad ass.

1:12:24 Motherfucker in her own right, and people should fucking study her, et cetera for feminist reasons.

1:12:29 She's fucking awesome.

1:12:31 So she goes to find Mary Mallin and with her help, the New York City Health Department takes Mary into custody in nineteen oh seven and places were into forced confinement inside a bungalow on sixteen acre North Brother Island off the Bronx Shore. So if you live and had lived in Manhattan or been in Manhattan, you see a fucking island over there off the shore that you can see.

1:12:56 It's almost like Alcatraz in San Francisco, right.

1:12:58 So all the only companion she has, and tell me if this doesn't sound amazing, she's in confinement. All she has is a fox terrier like living the life?

1:13:08 Can I please? So wait, I think I'm in that confinement right now? Put yourself in.

1:13:13 Mary Mallan's fucking confinement.

1:13:16 We're all all Irish women are doomed to live the life of Mary Mallin.

1:13:23 It just repeats itself. Damn it.

1:13:24 Okay, So it's at So they on this Brother Island was the Riverside Hospital which is where she's at. It's founded in the eighteen fifties as a smallpox hospital to treat and isolate victims of that disease. So they just fucking put them on this tiny island outside of Manhattan and you can see Manhattan and you're like, oh, well and I want that, and they're like, no, you're sick too bad. It eventually expands to other quarantineable diseases like leprosy and venereal diseases, so they just like, later people onto that island.

1:13:53 Did they really?

1:13:54 Yeah, so you get you get some venereal disease and then you have to so.

1:14:00 Like goes to stay here and tell you're, oh, in the.

1:14:02 Same room with all the other people with venarial diseases.

1:14:05 Yeah, that sounds kind of a party.

1:14:06 I mean those are the people that party.

1:14:09 Yeah.

1:14:10 A lot of great personalities in that room, I bet. I mean, I'm sure. Okay.

1:14:14 With her forced confinement Mary Mallan, everyone the media goes fucking nuts because this woman has been spreading this disease and killing people with it.

1:14:24 So media goes nuts.

1:14:26 Eventually, in nineteen oh eight, in the Journal of American Medical Association, she is nicknamed typhoid Mary. That's where she gets her name.

1:14:33 So the professionals really they car Yeah, they were doing top notch journalism.

1:14:39 Clear job everybody. So it turns out Mary Mallan is immune to the disease herself. She's the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the pathogen, which is pretty fucking cool. Will in custody Mary Mallan, typhoid Mary, let's call her, admits to poor hygiene. She's like, yeah, what out it? Motherfuckers?

1:15:01 Oh no, irish ah, I can't say.

1:15:09 That's all you just say, who cares? Jesus Mary and Joseph those other things to worry about exactly those people started in my country.

1:15:18 She said she did not understand the purpose of hand washing because she did not pose a risk. Girl, you're the cook. You're the cook. You pose a risk. It doesn't matter how healthy you are. They authorities are like, let's get rid of your gallbladder because that's where they believe the typhoid bacteria resided in. And she was like, fuck, no, fuck you, I don't even have the disease. And she wasn't willing to cease working as a cook too. So like, we'll let you go, just don't work as a cook.

1:15:46 And she's like, nope, I now won't wash my hands.

1:15:48 Go fuck yourself.

1:15:49 Fight fight, fight, fight, Harry Fight. We're so angry, it doesn't make sense. Irish women, Irish women, fight, fight, fight, and her turkey.

1:16:03 She uh is forced to give one hundred and sixty three samples of various bodily substances to the doctors there, one hundred and twenty of which tested positive for the bacteria.

1:16:14 She was teeming with this disease.

1:16:16 To the hilt, to the guilt, to the guilt, to the gills. So Mary stays there for three years until test results from a private laboratory, yes, I said that came up negative for typhoid. And with this information, in nineteen oh nine, Mary sues the health department for her freedom. But everyone's like, where'd she get the money to sue the health department? And then it's like a secret thing that maybe William Randolph Hurst was like, well, give you the money if you give me like an interview, so like he was like springing people. So genius, yeah, so smart.

1:16:47 But the New York Supreme Court's like, go fuck yourself. No, But then in nineteen ten, there's a new health commissioner. He lets her go if she promises never to work as a cook again, and she's like, okay, great.

1:17:00 She's like fine. I didn't like that much anyway.

1:17:02 Yeah, So in February of nineteen ten, Mary agreed that she was quote prepared to change her occupation and would give assurance by Affi David that she would, upon her release, take such hygienic precautions as would protect those with whom she came in contact from infection. I meaning, wash her fucking hands. I'll wash my fucking hands.

1:17:23 No, I just I felt like I wanted to defend. But there's it's indefensible. Go ahead, Nike.

1:17:28 Some people don't think some people think what that her being locked up is indefensible.

1:17:33 No, she killed a ton of people because she refused to watch.

1:17:36 She wouldn't It's like she wouldn't give in anything where it's like, okay, well, if you're the cook, you have to admit handwashing is kind of key. I realized it was. That was kind of a new idea back then. But still, well, the thing is.

1:17:49 So she thought they were allot to get her and all this shit. You're like decades later, they're like, well, if she had typhoid her whole life, maybe it fucked her brain up a little bit and she was paranoid and crazy.

1:18:00 Yeah, but wait, it gets worse.

1:18:02 Okay, Okay, So they let her out, they lose track of her.

1:18:06 Goodbye, bad idea.

1:18:08 Cut to five years later, in nineteen fifteen, a typhoid outbreak happens at Manhattan's Sloan Maternity Hospital, struck twenty five workers and killed two of those workers. When Soaper, our friend, George Soaper, is back, he looks into the outbreak and he's like, this looks fucking familiar.

1:18:27 Oh no.

1:18:28 She traces it back to the cook, who's an irishwoman named Mary Brown. This time she changed her name.

1:18:33 She sounded a good man.

1:18:36 Nope, she changed her name so she could become a cook. Like she was doing it.

1:18:40 Now she's responsible for it.

1:18:43 A dick, you know what I mean? Yeah, Now it's criminal. I think it's Mary Mallina Blah. It turns out she changed her name and during her years of release, she had cooked in hotels, restaurants and institutions. Wow, so she was like she'd gone to they'd given her job as a laundress. You make no fucking money.

1:19:01 It's really hard work.

1:19:02 Doesn't smell good, doesn't smell good.

1:19:04 She was like, fuck the shit and went to cook.

1:19:05 Wherever she worked, there were outbreaks of typhoid. However, she changed jops so frequently so she had eluded the blame. She's captured and again confined a North Brother Island, where she continued to refuse to acknowledge that she had any connection between.

1:19:22 Herself and the typhoid cases.

1:19:23 Well, at that point, it's so stacked up against her, yeah, that she might as well just do that, because she's so guilty that the second she breaks, it's over.

1:19:32 Yeah, exactly.

1:19:33 So after the second, the second apprehension, she spends the next twenty three years of her life as a prisoner in forest isolation. Hundreds, if not thousands, of asymptomatic carriers who had been identified, were allowed to walk the streets of New York Freeley, but typhoid Mary lived alone in exile, partly do because the public were fucking pissed at her, because she wouldn't stay out the kitchen, like if she had just not gone back to cooking, Yes.

1:20:00 That second time around, exactly, she I mean, I didn't. It's sad that she lived in isolation. But you why are you being so stubborn? Yeah, calm down, Karen, oh.

1:20:14 Oh, Karen's and just my face just starts to fall apart. I don't want to do it. It just comes out of me. Your typhoid tears just started running out. The thing so bad.

1:20:29 But stay at the kitchen. On November eleventh, nineteen thirty eight, Mary Mallan dies of pneumonia at age sixty nine, still in captivity. An autopsy found evidence of live toy foid typhoid bacteria in her gallbladder. So they were right, Yeah, they were right. Her bodies cremated and her ashes were buried at Saint Raymond's Cemetery in the Bronx. So, Mary Mallan, it's thought that she infected fifty one people, and three of those illnesses resulted in death, and that's on George Soper's you know, looking into it.

1:21:03 But she used so many.

1:21:05 Aliases that it's thought that she the true death toll could have been way fucking higher. Some estimated that she had made have caused fifty fatalities, which I just saw that in a random article. So I don't know if that's even true. Historians say she cantaminated at least one hundred and twenty two people and killed five, which sounds a little more likely.

1:21:23 So crazy though, Yeah.

1:21:25 So. Throughout the twentieth century, typhoid fever steadily declines due to introduction of vaccinations and improvements in public sanitation and hygienes aka wash her fucking hands, and today typhoid fever is considered a rare condition among developed Countries' raid is approximately five cases per million per year. As her fucking brother Island and Riverside Hospital, Real quick, this fucking island of disease off the Manhattan sounds.

1:21:54 Amazing, sounds amazing.

1:21:55 The island has been abandoned since nineteen sixty three after it was a detention. It was lasted attention facility for juvenile drug offenders in nineteen sixty three.

1:22:04 How badly do you wish you could go and just sit on the wall and like.

1:22:06 Stare at people there are you.

1:22:08 Know there's some black light posters in that building that.

1:22:11 You know, there's some people out there who have stories of.

1:22:13 Like they were like yeah, because you know my mom working in the mental She worked at a hospital called Langley Porter in San Francisco. Huh, it's up on the hill, yea kind And and people in the sixties used to send their kids if they got caught smoking pot. One time, they sent their kids to the mental health christ So she said there were in the like mental late sixties, all these kids. There was like an influx of kids are like they're incorrigible in their drug addicts where they had only done like smoked one.

1:22:45 Joint or just like we're saying no to things exactly. It was like they were housed with people who are legitimately in need of mental.

1:22:53 Mental health health issues.

1:22:55 And I'm sure those kids were like, well, I'm never doing anything bad again.

1:22:59 Yes the ship that they saw like yeah, yeah, or they were like I don't know. She just said it was really sad and bummed her out a lot.

1:23:06 It's clearly complicated. Yeah, So these kids got sent there in nineteen sixty three. Finally it closed. It's now uninhabited and designated as a bird sanctuary. But wait, it's illegal for anyone to go on the island without permission from the city. All the buildings though, still fucking stand. And these photographers sometimes go on there and take photos and you can see a bunch of the photos. We should put them up on Instagram of these gorgeous like brick buildings that are falling into disrepair. And you can see the rooms where Mary Mallan was fucking housed, and you can see the typhoid a wing, and you can see the fucking crematorium and it's like, it's insanely gorgeous. I am asking any Murderino who works for the City of Manhattan,

1:23:47 please let me and Karen come and see the fucking island.

1:23:51 Come and get a disease of our own for ourselves.

1:23:54 And since it's like under you know under Watch, and you it's really hard to get on there. Everything still there, so like people haven't graffiti and people haven't stolen ship from the island.

1:24:04 That's amazing.

1:24:05 You need to see the photos. Everything is covered in wildlife. It's gorgeous.

1:24:10 Oh, I want to see that.

1:24:11 It's amazing.

1:24:13 It sounds like the island they threatened to send or that they promised to send doctor Lector to and Silence of Lambs. That ends up to be that they were like fakesies. When she recites that thing, you are allowed to walk on the beach every.

1:24:27 Day whatever I want to read that.

1:24:29 It's so good, do it good. You will be allowed one You.

1:24:34 Will be allowed one walk one day a year. Well, you can walk freely on the beach with armguards or ever snipers.

1:24:44 I don't know if she knows fake either.

1:24:47 I know my friend, my friend Amy, who you met when we were in uh Wisconsin. She she has sounds, slams, memorized love. I've watched it with and she'll just say the line real quick before. It's my favorite thing in the world.

1:25:04 I love it. You will be allowed to walk. She'd be able to do that speech right off the dome. It's so good.

1:25:10 I love all these dumbs. Okay, it's a legal loobbody blot, but you could still see the building, the room where Typhoid Mary spent the last twenty three years of her life.

1:25:22 Was she doing there? Oh man, she was bummed.

1:25:24 But it's just like there's varying accounts where it's like some say she was like actually helping out there and like a maid, and some say that she was just like in seclusion and they abandoned her and used her as like a look at Typhoid Mary. You know, when people would come to the island, yeah, that kind of thing.

1:25:39 So you don't really know. I hope there was a fox terrier.

1:25:43 I don't know.

1:25:44 Yeah. And then I also want to mention there's a podcast. If you're into this shit that like I am, there's a podcast that's kind of new. It's hosted by two these two young ladies who are grad students in disease ecology. Oh, it's called this podcast kill You, and it's just about infectious diseases from history, and every episode is that.

1:26:05 And these these two.

1:26:07 Girls are named their both named Aaron, are like, it's just an awesome.

1:26:10 Podcast, this podcast great. Yeah, so this podcast will kill you love it.

1:26:15 I like to imagine that typhoid Mary sat in seclusion in her room on that island and fantasized of all the different things she'd like to put her hand in. Then like she'd be like corn chowder or whatever, and then like mashed potatoes, and then both her fantasies just like both bare.

1:26:34 Arms go all the way in and then like she cleans her fingernails in the chowder. Yes, I wonder if she like requested like cooking magazines and like red recipes and was like stick stick your arm completely in.

1:26:46 She'd be like this looks good, but you know what needs my arm?

1:26:51 My arm, my fingernail clippings. And it's not funny.

1:26:54 People, it's disgusting. It's terrible. But isn't that amazing? It's incredible. Also, the idea this did you watch The Nick when it was on?

1:27:04 Yeah, and they have a uh there's an episode involving her.

1:27:08 I watched the little scene where they they and yes.

1:27:12 Where they confront her. Yeah, it's that was such a good show. And they did that around show. We're good.

1:27:17 She was great. But they did that where they would take those.

1:27:21 Things out of history and be like this is what where you don't have any sense like things before modern medicine or modern stuff. It's just the weirdest idea where they'd be like somebody coming in, they'd be like, welp, we tried to stick a tube.

1:27:34 In their arm and then they died like the end. Or it's just it was so crazy, precarious. And The Nick is such a great show. I love that show.

1:27:43 Yeah, if you're into that kind of thing, you should definitely watch it.

1:27:45 It was great.

1:27:45 Also, if you've ever taken cocaine to the point where it was a problem, for you. I warn sugar warning, huge cocaine. Trigger warning for the nick opium too.

1:27:55 You're like, I could be a doctor in New Coke all the time.

1:27:58 No, maybe you're in an opium dence. Trigger warning.

1:28:03 You love to lay back with a bunch of people dressed in traditional Chinese garb.

1:28:09 Yeah, then this will be hard for you to get through. It's gonna make you nut.

1:28:12 But if you love surgery without gloves or anesthesia, this is a show for you.

1:28:17 What a show? Or Clive Owen, right, that was great, Thank you?

1:28:21 That was fun.

1:28:22 I love to learn.

1:28:23 I loved I loved teaching. I love saying words wrong.

1:28:28 I loved I love to learn. I love to lie.

1:28:32 I love to make up new words.

1:28:34 I love to just have fun with it. Just say ship that.

1:28:37 And you know, don't have any uh proclinsity for caring.

1:28:41 I mean, I have a real proclensity to just say what I want, and I think we all do. And there's a freedom in that, in these proclensities we all have.

1:28:50 In this preclensiest time, there's a freedom.

1:28:53 It's so the funniest thing about Typhoid Murray.

1:28:57 Is she she had a real problem with cleent clensliness.

1:29:02 Shit, No, I love it. It was a fucking valiant effort. I tried, but you can see me.

1:29:08 You can see me making that U turn for miles away.

1:29:10 Would you have made that attempt two years ago before this podcast?

1:29:14 Absolutely no, not at all.

1:29:16 So I real bias against ponds, as you know, and so I applaud you, and uh no, I think it's the effect that that you have on my life.

1:29:24 I'm making you stupider.

1:29:27 You're breaking down those coun walls.

1:29:28 I am stupid erring you hard, you know, real hard.

1:29:37 Okay, we are back.

1:29:39 Are there any updates for the one of the great stories of modern America?

1:29:44 There's no updates, but I mentioned none other than this podcast Will Kill You during this story, which became part of the Exactly Right Network on November twenty eighth, twenty eighteen.

1:29:54 See there's all kinds of East Riggs. If you pay attention, pay attention, pay attention.

1:29:59 You can check out the website at this podcast Will Kill You dot com and listen wherever we get your podcasts and watch full episodes on the exactly Right YouTube page at YouTube dot com slash exactly right Media.

1:30:10 Okay, so you just heart the.

1:30:11 Moment when I accidentally invented the word proclasity. We liked it so much we named the episode after it, and now, eight years later, so very timely, we are making merch.

1:30:23 That's right, the people have spoken. You can get a proclensitywringer, tea mug or topebag, all available for pre sale right now until July twenty first at exactly wrightstore dot com. Order yours now and become a part of the proclensity generation.

1:30:37 I have a hometown about typhoid Mary. If you want me to read it, please do.

1:30:41 Okay.

1:30:42 We received this email from listener Angela. It's called Teaching hand Washing featuring Typhoid Mary. Yes, hi, MFM. I teach an afterschool cooking class for elementary school students. How cute. Every week we make a new recipe where the students get to work with food, eat what they've made, and take home a recipe sheet. It's super fun and also exhausting.

1:31:01 Shout out to the full time teachers. I don't know how you do it, being that we're working with food in large groups. My number one rule in class is that students have to wash their hands before handling food.

1:31:12 Thank you.

1:31:13 Huh.

1:31:13 I try.

1:31:14 I won't even like when I go leave, my sister's stop listening right now, even though she doesn't listen. When I go to her house for dinner, I don't touch. I don't really eat much. Those two little kids, they get their hands in every love to touch and poke and put things back, and I eat before I go.

1:31:29 Can I really quickly tell you a story of my sister leaving work as a kindergarten teacher, going to some sort of a school function.

1:31:37 It was taco night.

1:31:38 She's setting up all the stuff for tacos, and she just put out this huge, like a pile of grated cheese to go down the buffet, and like a little six year old walks over and just sticks his hand in the center of the cheese and starts eating it, and my sister whips around it. She's like, that is not how you b And then another mom comes over and puts her hand on my sister's back and goes, maybe you take your talk, doesn't go home, And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do not food shame kids.

1:32:06 I mean, it's so true where it's like, that's the thing about little kids is there?

1:32:10 They're dirty? Monster?

1:32:11 Oh they are, and I won't eat. I won't eat around them. Okay, wash their hands on it. I try explaining that it keeps everyone strong and healthy. It's a good habit. Hand sanitizer is not the same as running water and soap, et cetera. Despite my honest attempts, I know some of these kids just fake it when they when I send them off to go wash their hands.

1:32:27 I did that too, That's why I won't eat it. I know what fucking disgusting.

1:32:30 I was having a chocolate chip cookie. You're like, did you make this with playda? Because it's real salty and it's red.

1:32:37 And now I have distemper.

1:32:39 So last fall, I thought of a more impactful way to teach them about the importance of hand washing by telling them the story of typhoid Mary.

1:32:45 That's right, scare the share out of them watching you.

1:32:49 So, as I'm delivering my hand washing spiel on the first day of class, I asked the students if anyone has ever heard of typhoid Mary. I then acted like it was a spooky story that was too scary to tell, which just made.

1:33:00 Them want to hear it.

1:33:01 More perfect, I went on to tell a kid friendly version of her story as a servant and home chef, her lack of hand washing that led to widespread typhoid transmission and multiple deaths, being pinned by the police and put into solitary confinement, and her continuous refusal to wash her hands. To put the midias, I assured them that public sanitation and medicine have come a long way since her time. Nevertheless, they got the message. I noticed a significant drop off of hand washing protesters and more openness towards hand washing in general. Gat Now, when I go over hand washing roles on the first day of every term, I inevitably have at least one repeat student interjecting.

1:33:40 Tell us the story.

1:33:42 Fuck yeah, watch a little murdery No so good, And of course I oblige, and it is the most attention the class pays me all term. I always appreciate revisiting George's telling of Mary's story, just to make sure I get all those nitty gritty details right. Stay sexy and wash your hands, Angela, Oh so.

1:34:00 Good, amazing.

1:34:02 Okay, it's time for us to get into the good things of the week portion of the show A thing we used to do.

1:34:08 I think we used to have good portions of the week.

1:34:10 We used to really find those, We find the silver lining, and we'd shove it right into the show.

1:34:15 So take a listen. Oh what just makes you happy?

1:34:24 Let's see falling down and snapping my ankle loudly in front of my neighbors.

1:34:29 Oh no, I kind of have one. Yeah, go ahead, Okay.

1:34:33 The thing that makes me happy this week is this book that I'm listening to, Thank you Audible. It's sci fi fantasy, and it's one of those books that makes me that someone thought of this narrative and thought of this, like, uh, you know, idea makes me happy that humans, that certain humans exist. You know. It's like so fucking joyous that like people can think of these things and write these books.

1:34:56 And it's gorgeous and I love it. It's called The Child, it's called Children of Time I Am by Adrian Tchaikovsky, and it's sci fi fantasy. The book is really fun to listen to. It's fucking weirdst shit. It's like posthuman space stuff with their spiders. I've never in my life thought I would ever have sympathy to spiders.

1:35:17 But I do.

1:35:18 It's like such a good book and it's making me really happy.

1:35:22 To exist.

1:35:23 There's a lot of like they're the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, you know, like, yeah, that's the last book that's done that for me, which has made me like so happy that Douglas Adams existed.

1:35:34 And it's like your big theories and thoughts and feelings.

1:35:38 I'm like, wow, someone thought of that. Our brains are bigger than you know, in these precleensives times.

1:35:46 Where everything feels kind of proclemsed right.

1:35:48 And I know I'm not going to write that fucking book, so I appreciate that Adrian Tchaikovsky has.

1:35:52 Yeah, so that really sat down and yeah.

1:35:55 Yeah, so that's making me happy.

1:35:57 I agreed, agreed. What's yours?

1:35:59 Okay?

1:36:00 Mine is this is?

1:36:01 This was a tweet that I received two days ago. You did too, from a woman named Molly on uh hold on, oh sorry.

1:36:11 Haunted Train. That's so fucking wow.

1:36:19 It's me Chernick on Twitter. And she wrote to us and said, don't be alarmed if there's a body down there in quotes, and then that the headline of the article that she sent it sent us says, sinkhole reveals hidden room below family's garage and then there's a picture of shelving that they can see through the hole, and on the shelf there's toys, but it's also all dark and creepy, and it's like this article. So it happened in Idaho Falls, Idaho, this family apparently when they like, there's like an inch of cement and then the sinkhole happened.

1:37:00 And basically there had been a hidden room underneath their house. And it's in a place where they're normally not sellers. So they're like, they think it's possible that could have been like a bomb shelter, but probably not. Yeah, and a bunch of stuff that's down there has been down there for like forty or fifty years.

1:37:21 That is that how I couldn't find how long it was. It's like forty to fifty years.

1:37:24 I don't think that they were like letterers and shit, Yes, but they thought's the crazy. Let me see if I can get a year. They Oh, the home was built in the fifties and it was built as a basement home. Then someone came in the seventies and remodeled it and added the second story.

1:37:42 So i've been in the seventies someone put it down there.

1:37:44 Yeah, but they say it's definitely not a bomb shelter, and that it's sketchy. And the insurance provider and the engineer are the ones that said, don't be alarmed if you find a body down there.

1:37:58 That's amazing. Don't be alarmed.

1:38:02 Yeah, find a body, because they're basically going down there and looking through it. It's it's just like that picture of the old kind of water, moldy letters and stuff. It's just the creepiest story of all times.

1:38:17 So I'm very as I think you know, but I'm not sure if everybody knows, but I'm obsessed with sinkholes. Sinkholes are truly my passion. Anytime I was I was never more livid. Remember the sinkhole that came up off of Laurel Canyon.

1:38:33 I was up in.

1:38:34 Pedalimma and I saw it on the news and I was livid because she couldn't go meet it in person. Yeah, I would have eaten greet. I would have walked right down there. I would have paid top dollar for that meet and great. I've been like, Hi, where did.

1:38:47 You come from, what's your deal?

1:38:49 What's happening down there? Is it a are you a hidden river? Or are you something.

1:38:54 Entirely different, so amazing. Yeah, sinkhole and hidden room.

1:38:58 Come on, my parent sinkhole. That's amazing. This is a double ease for you. It's a sinkhole and a hitting realm.

1:39:05 And because the best part about usually sinkholes fill back up with water, because that's why they're there in the first place.

1:39:10 Is like the water table got too close, bloody block at you.

1:39:14 It's made up, but it's a water involved you know, that's why. Sure, it's erosion, but it's underneath. Okay, anyhow, there's no water in this in that cellar. It's like they can go down and look into it. I know, it's not like it got floated immediately or filled a silt.

1:39:34 No, I want to go. I want to go down there. Let's go.

1:39:36 It's like an amusement park.

1:39:37 Let's go.

1:39:38 Idaho is not that far away.

1:39:44 And we're back back back.

1:39:48 Finally, it's time to talk about the number one title of this of ten years of podcasting, proclensity.

1:39:54 I stand by that word truly my favorite.

1:39:57 Uh.

1:39:57 Okay, we could be called death confetti, oh, because we're competti.

1:40:01 That's right, or white blue, white blue, which was uh what I would move my song leader gloves around.

1:40:07 How about the Colombo of Diseases.

1:40:12 Or the Shellfish Constable. Yeah, that was a good one.

1:40:15 Oh, the couches Forever.

1:40:16 I mean, there's so many buck sacks. The Joy of Kittens, it's.

1:40:20 Just proclensity wins. I don't I there's some funny ones, but I feel like there's I just remember that title.

1:40:27 It sounds like a word.

1:40:29 Um. All right, that's it for this week's rewind. Let's let's go.

1:40:34 Back and say goodbye from good old twenty eighteen.

1:40:41 Thanks for listening everyone.

1:40:43 Yeah, that was a fun one. Yeah, there's all kinds of crazy shit in that one. Take it, run with it, do your thing thing, do a fucking.

1:40:51 Herky at the end of it, do a hurcy.

1:40:55 I'm if it's please. If you're going to correct me on the hurcy positioning.

1:40:59 Don't do it it.

1:41:00 Uh.

1:41:01 You have to be a professional cheerleader, that's all. Only take emails from professional.

1:41:05 Cheerlead and you have to send a video of you doing a hurk.

1:41:07 We need the correct hurk and then we'll play the audio of the visual of the video.

1:41:12 Then in breaking your bag turkey hurky.

1:41:18 Thanks for listening, friends, Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

1:41:22 Goodbye, bye Elvis.

1:41:24 Do you want a cookie? Well cookie, Oh, the little one