Charles "Peanut" Tillman on the Bears, his favorite NFL defenses and the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award

0:04 Welcome to NFL Daily. This episode is presented by Nationwide. I'm Jordan Rodrigue, and it is my absolute honor today to host the legend Peanut Tillman on today's show. Most of you listening to this are, of course, familiar with the two-time pro bowler and NFL All-Pro who invented the peanut punch technique. And we see that every weekend in the NFL at this point. He also was the Walter Payton Man of the Year in 2013. Peanut is a fascinating guy who worked for the FBI after his playing career ended and now works closely with the NFL Legends community, plus co-hosts the NFL Players Second Acts podcast with Roman Harper.

0:45 We had a great and very wide-ranging conversation. So let's get into it. Peanut, I am so honored to have you here today. First of all, I'm a huge fan of yours, not only as a player. I know I'm embarrassing you right off the jump, but you're kind of an icon to me also for your work in the community and off the field. I feel like you're a person who really truly understands to your core what it means to stand up for and advocate for communities. And so to me, I want to really start with that for you. How did you know that about yourself from a very young age and how did you develop it and also using football as a tool through which to develop it?

1:27 Well, first off, let me just say thank you for those kind words. And I received that. I don't think it started out just as young. I think it was just a combination of people that I've been around my parents, my family, my friends, just people in my inner circle. I think I've learned a lot from them and then just different situations that I've been placed in. I think that taught me compassion and to think about other people. One, considering my daughter and all the medical complications she has gone through. So it's a combination of things. Parents, my family, things that I've gone through. So yeah, I say those, those are the three that kind of helped shape and mold me into the man I am today.

2:20 It was something that you were so clear about early on as, as a player. And I always like to watch your, your film. And I always like to watch and study when I was learning about the game because you played so out loud, right?

2:33 Like you played how you are.

2:36 And as a person and you could really understand how, how expressive you could be, but then also you live, you live that way. You were in the community and you, um, you in your career, post football advocated for, for people trying to help people as well. Did, was there ever a time in football specifically where you thought, okay, I have to figure out how to continue to encourage this because football is such an intense job specifically. So keeping that voice and continuing to find yourself as a person in football, what was that like for you?

3:05 Um, I'd probably say it was, it was fun. So you got to think when I came into the league, I was 22. Yeah.

3:16 Right. I was, I was just a kid. I was still a baby.

3:19 I'm still growing and learning and trying to discover who I am outside of football. I know who I could be on the football field, but I'm in a, I'm not going to say a new city. I'm from Chicago.

3:31 Right.

3:31 But I'm also still trying to learn and figure out who I am. So navigating that process. And I think this is a cool part about when you see a young guy coming to the NFL. And then if that person has a long career, you, you kind of grow up and on TV in front of, in front of the spotlight in front of all your fans. So I think my fans have seen our peanut Tillman fans. They've seen me grow into this young man and to, You know, this older player now who's in his 40s, who's, you know, raising kids and still trying to be out in the community.

4:07 I'd say that process was fun. I wasn't perfect.

4:12 I wasn't always on the straight and narrow. But my community, I think those are the people that kind of helped me and helped me get on the path when at some times I was able to get off that path or I didn't have the clear vision of something. I really look forward. As they say, it takes a village.

4:31 It took a village.

4:32 And I think that was the fun piece because I'm kind of seeing that in my kids right now. I have a 21-year-old and she's learning life and she's trying to understand and figure out who she is as a person. The cool thing about that is it's not published or publicized on television, right? It's just kind of in the confines of the family. So That part is, it's fun.

4:58 It's interesting. I don't think I knew it at.

5:01 First when I was going through it, but looking back on it, yeah, it was definitely an interesting time trying to figure out and learn about community and wanting to be in the community and help the people and those around me.

5:15 21, speaking as a former 21-year-old woman myself, it's a scary age at times.

5:20 And it's an exciting one and all of that.

5:23 But I mean, do you look at her journey and do you see parallels in your own, obviously in a much more, much less of a spotlight, but do you like think about things and almost reframe and say, okay, yeah, I actually remember kind of what that would have felt like in this moment at that age.

5:40 Yeah, I think you could, as you just said, literally what you just said, as a former 21 year old, I tell my kids, hey, I know I'm your dad, but I wasn't always a dad.

5:54 Like I was a child. I was a son.

5:57 Right. So I've done the dumb things. I've done this thing that was good or bad, whatever it is. Like I've done those things. Like I didn't always make the best decision or the right decision, but I learned from my decision. So hear me out.

6:11 I'm in my 40s. I've taken the test of being 21, young and dumb. Right. So. I get it. Totally understand. It's fine. So it's OK.

6:21 I'm able to give a little bit more grace because things that they've done, I have done good and bad. Right. So when it doesn't work out in their favor, I can show a little bit more grace because I'm like, yeah, I did that. And totally remember why I did it and it didn't work out for me. So, ma'am, sweetheart, baby girl, I get it. I understand. It's OK. So yeah, I like that. As a former 21-year-old, I like how you phrased that. That was a good one.

6:53 Do you know, it's funny.

6:54 I think sometimes having kids must feel like that particular type of anxiety that we feel.

7:00 You know, when you.

7:02 walk and meet someone for the first time and maybe you flubbed the handshake or like you have that thing that you're like, Oh, I said this in the, in the public setting that, uh, I, I misremembered a detail or, and you just think about it the entire night afterward. I feel like having kids would be like that times a million, honestly.

7:19 I think one of the things I've learned though, as a parent, and even just like looking at my parents and how my grandparents raised my parents and so on and so forth. And yeah, the evolution of like how we talk and the things that we talk about, the communication, it's all different and it changes every generation. Right?

7:38 So I just try to tell my, myself about my parents.

7:44 They did the best they could with what they had and what they knew.

7:49 I got a little bit more knowledge.

7:50 Our generation has changed a little bit and I know I didn't always make the right decision with my kids on certain things. However, I give myself enough grace and just say, I did the best I could with the information and tools that I was armed with. And I'm always trying to grow and get better. Right.

8:09 So hopefully when my kids have kids and.

8:13 They can say, yeah, my dad did this, I don't particularly like, and I wish he kind of would have did this. However, my dad did the best he could with what he had.

8:21 Right.

8:22 So I, I try to give my parents and myself grace as far as how we learn things and how we parent.

8:32 We have a wide age range of people who listen to this podcast. So I hope that the.

8:38 Sons and daughters of parents are also listening to this and giving their own parents a little grace in return as well, because they're working hard, guys. But I really like what you said about You and your personality traits of always trying to grow and challenge yourself to to grow. I if I were just to look at your career on paper before football and after football, it really does strike me that that's something you pursued after football, too. And, you know, you joined the FBI as a special agent in 2018, mostly working on the safe streets.

9:13 Task force.

9:14 Um, I know you've told this story probably a million times in your personal life and, and publicly, but why, why did you gravitate toward this and particularly that area within the field?

9:26 Well, my dad was in the army.

9:28 I grew up on military bases all the way up until I was like 17. Um, so public service was something that I always knew. I always wanted to, so football was always the number one goal. That The Army was always like my backup plan. It worked out for my dad. I traveled, lived overseas, traveled the world. I had a great time. So if I didn't get a scholarship out of high school, I was going to join the Army. Once I graduated, if I didn't get drafted in the NFL. I was like, I'll just go to the army. I'll be an officer. So I always kind of had public service in the back of my, in the back of my mind. Football did, I did pretty good in football. 13 years later, Yeah, I'm probably a little too old to go to the Army at 34, 34, 35.

10:17 So I just figured, why not law enforcement? My undergraduate degree is in criminal justice. My postgraduate degree is in emergency management.

10:28 So I just figured, why not?

10:31 I was always a fan of law enforcement. It was always kind of in the back of my mind of something that I wanted to do when I was done playing, if I played long enough.

10:39 So I just figured, It's either now or never. Right. So let's let's go do it.

10:46 I might be a little biased, but I think the FBI is the the premier law enforcement agency in the country. So they touch, you know, locally, federally or overseas. They go all over the globe. So I just figured, why not go with them? And they work a whole slew of violations. And that's what I wanted to do.

11:09 What did Safe Streets Task Force work look like, though? Because I think when people do think of that entity, they think super broadly, right? But from what I read about your work in that regard, it was very community oriented, like very intensive looking inward into, you know, the places that were right there all around you in cities that you were in.

11:35 Yeah, really, it's just making sure the streets are safe, working with criminal enterprises, making sure they're not trying to take over cities, towns, areas, things like that area of our responsibility. We had essentially the entire city of Chicago, and those are areas that we focused on and focused. yeah, just making sure those, those streets are safe and people aren't violation or excuse me, aren't violating federal statutes. Yeah.

12:05 It makes a lot of sense.

12:06 You know, I, my other job is at the athletic and my colleague, Dan Pompei wrote a really cool profile about you. And it was so fascinating because again, you have been this larger than life figure on, on our TV sets and, and, you know, in our game film, when we were, when we're trying to learn about techniques and, and all of these different types of things. And, and here you were also in this at times, I would think a little bit frightening profession where it is, it is high stakes at times as well and intense. And so translating those, those two things, becoming immersed in this new life for you in post-football is, what was that like and finding something that was so, I guess, immersive, did that help with what it means to move away

12:57 from football? Something that had been your, your entire, you know, ethos for so long.

13:03 Yeah.

13:03 So it was, I mean, you, you get in some pretty dicey, I've been in some, some dicey situations here and there. The similarities are that, that parallel to the NFL, it's team, right? It's team, it's family. And I left one team and I joined another team. People that I work with, all of them heroes. And they're not just agents.

13:28 Our professional staff, our IAs, our SOSs, phenomenal. They're the ones that make the agents with the information that they give. And the agents and the people in your group, the people in your squad, I'm jealous or not jealous.

13:45 Excuse me.

13:45 I'm again, I'm, I'm biased. I think all the people that I work with, whether it was, you know, on my squad or our SWAT team, hands down the best in the Bureau, like amazing, amazing people. I can't, I can't say that enough. I worked with some amazing people that I, now I have lifelong relationships with all these people.

14:06 So I left one amazing organization with the NFL, jumped into another organization, really good organization within the FBI and all the people, the majority of the people that I worked with, right? There's always that one, right? So the majority of the people that I worked with at the FBI, I had great bosses, you know, all my coworkers and colleagues, we still hang out to this day. It just was, I went from one good job to another really good job.

14:33 Now everyone's always asking me to compare the two. NFL is by far the greatest dream job anybody could ever want. Like there's, there's no comparison. NFL, FBI, I was like 100% it's NFL all day long. However, I've been blessed enough to say that I've, I've worked two of my dream jobs. I've, I've, I've been so blessed and thankful to, to work two of my dream jobs. And I had a pretty good career in both of them. And yeah, no looking back.

15:10 When you when you talk about some of the people in the.

15:12 Relationships you did build, you know, you decided to walk away from from the FBI in 2025. And you were pretty open in that piece and in other places about your reasons. I have to say also, Peanut, like the what you shared was incredibly impactful as well. And so I'm wondering if you are comfortable talking to me here about your decision to also leave a place where you did have great relationships. You were working another version of a dream job.

15:41 Yeah.

15:42 Um, I don't think I wanted to leave my job. And there are some other factors that played into me stepping away. I just didn't like the direction that they were going in. And I know that changed when the administration changed and new leadership changed.

16:02 When the new leadership came in, that's where I saw.

16:05 And there are a lot of other people within the Bureau that didn't necessarily agree with The new mission of the FBI. I'm, again, super blessed. I'm beyond blessed that I made enough money in my first profession where I didn't have to work. I chose to work. And it was just something that I didn't agree with. Hey, you guys can go on and do this. I'm not OK with that. I'm not down with that. So it's no big deal for me. I'll step aside and y'all can go do that. But I'm OK. I don't want to be a part of. of what you all are doing right now. I'm, I'm, I'm more than good and I'll stay in my lane over here. I won't be a part of that.

16:47 This is such a, I know such a, it's going to sound like such an asinine question, but in that moment, you're just being yourself.

16:55 You're acting over what you feel is right or wrong.

16:58 Yeah.

17:00 Does it ever, does it ever strike you or actually like see outside of, of kind of just you being yourself? in your life and doing the things that you, you know, are adhering to your path. Does it ever strike you that that actually is quite impactful for people? You just set, you set such a resonating example, I think for a lot of people who were, were looking for somebody who was going to speak to, you know, right and wrong, speak to some of the things that say, okay, if I don't think something is right, I'm going to stand up and say something about it. Did that ever strike you at all? Or is this like, you know what, this is just who I am. So I'm not even really thinking about it like that.

17:45 No, it's just, it's just who I am.

17:46 And then just like talking with family and friends, like my, my inner circle and having those conversations with them again. Um, I think my moral compass is pretty good for the most part. I think we can all steer or get off that that yellow brick road at times. So having a good inner circle and checking in with them and bouncing ideas and just kind of getting feedback from them.

18:14 And every time it was kind of the same. So I'm not going to curse, but it was just at one point it was just zero F's given. I was like, yeah, I'm not. I'm not doing that. I'm not the guy for that. And I knew once I questioned all the stuff, I knew it was time for me to leave. And I'm okay with that. I haven't looked back. I do miss my job. I miss the people that I work with more than anything because we did a lot of really good stuff. We did a lot of good work.

18:50 A lot of amazing work that you'll never hear about it. And that's how they like it. That's one of the, one of the many great things about the people at the, at the FBI is they're not looking for their, you know, they're not looking for publicity. They're just silent heroes and they, they are okay with that, that title. They really are.

19:12 It's so fascinating to me because there's such a duality to it.

19:16 In one phase, you are, you know, you're, you're following your compass, right?

19:21 And you just happen to be at the epicenter, whether it is one job or the other, at these kind of major cultural, at least in some people's opinion, myself especially, these cultural moments. And the one that you are such a huge part of as a player is super fun, right? I mean, you invented the peanut punch, what we know about, the thing that everybody asks you about, the thing that I am going to ad nauseum ask you about.

19:47 It is an instinct you were following as a player.

19:51 That led to, again, a kind of a cultural phenomenon within football that everybody talks about still to this day, that everybody will talk about long into the future. Do you remember the first time you did it? Do you remember like thinking, okay, yeah, this works, I'm gonna do it again?

20:08 I remember the first one I got in college. I didn't think it was going to be a thing. Um, it was, I think it was homecoming my freshman year when I was in college and I run the guy down and I secure the tackle kind of like not a choke, but I kind of grab them like this and I ended up punching the ball out. I knock it out fast forward, you know, the last game of the season I'm playing safety and had about 20 tackles that game. And, We played Wolfer College and this team ran this triple option. Well, my job as a safety was to take the pitch guy. So every time I would run, I would bypass the quarterback and I kept hitting the pitch guy every time. So my defensive coordinator from high school, Rodney Southern, he just kind of nonchalantly

21:03 after the game said, man, if you just would have Cause you know, when they run option, they run like this quarterback, run like this. So he goes, man, if you just would have swatted at the ball, you'd have had a bunch of forced fumbles. And that was all he said. And after he said that, I just kinda, huh. Okay.

21:26 And I just, it just kinda, it was just like a light bulb moment. You ever see, um, uh, what's the cartoon? Uh, uh, uh, with grew, what's it?

21:35 Uh, the, uh, the minions guy, right?

21:38 What's the name of the despicable me.

21:41 Yeah.

21:41 It was like, I was like grew and despicable me. It was like light bulb. And I'm just like, huh? All right. All right. So that next season I just started, I just would purposely take bad pursuit angles and I just started forcing fumbles. And then when I got to the NFL, I couldn't, let people get in front of me or behind me.

22:04 Yeah.

22:04 Cause that's, that ends in touchdown. Everybody in the NFL is fast, right?

22:08 Even the linemen, punters, kickers, long snappers are fast.

22:11 So I just figured, uh, I got to figure out.

22:15 A way to do this and like make the tackle and try to force a fumble at the same time.

22:21 I'm not the biggest guy I'm tall for.

22:23 My position, but I'm not you know, a Lou Keekly, a Brian Urlacher, a Ray Lewis, you know, I'm not weapon X.

22:33 I'm not, I'm not those types of players where I'm just going to hit you in the ball.

22:36 It's just going to relax miraculously, you know, come out. I wasn't a separate the man from the ball kind of player. That's not my style. That wasn't who I was. So I just try to do my own thing and stay in my lane. And that's how you got the peanut punch. I just, I just, I just kept trying to do it. And, perfected. And every year I got a little better.

22:57 Well, and now you see it everywhere.

22:58 I mean, there's more, I mean, just anecdotally speaking, you watching all the games, there's more now and, and people are really capitalizing on it.

23:07 And I think week by week, it does come in bunches too.

23:10 Like, uh, you know, you'll see seven or eight of them over one weekend, whether they are in like actually trying to do it or they're just more trying to claw and rip. But, to me, I'm thinking, okay, coaches are now going to have to start, you know, incorporating teaching tools other than high and tight, carry the ball, you know, make sure with your ball security, is it cheating to ask you how you would coach defending it?

23:35 You can't.

23:37 So I've, I've been to a couple of teams and I've said, whoever I was like, where's the running back coach.

23:44 And, you know, he always kind of was like, Hey, I was like.

23:48 Hey, I don't care what you teach your players, high and tight, the points of pressure. I'm getting it out every time. There is no however you hold it here, you hold it here, you cross it like this.

24:03 I didn't care.

24:04 I've seen people holding it like this. I can force a fumble. I've gotten it. However way you hold it, I'm taking it from you. But it was just It was just something that we thought about all the time in that Lovie Smith defense, forcing takeaways.

24:25 It was just, no, it's not a turnover. It's a takeaway. We got to go physically take the ball from the other person.

24:32 And we would just, in our minds, there wasn't any player, any team that we couldn't force a turnover or we couldn't just go take the ball from. And I remember many a times Coach Smith was like, Hey, he would always call you big guys like, hey, big guy. I need one of them punches now. You got to go get the ball for us, big guy. Go, go, go, go get it. You got to come up with something.

24:59 And when your head coach says, hey, go get the ball so we can score and win. Like to me, that's that's that's the kind of confidence you want your coach to have in a player. And that was even more motivation for me to go in and try and force a fumble.

25:15 I'm just thinking about.

25:17 Being the running backs coach at a practice you're at when peanut Tillman creator and, and like if inspirer of the peanut punch says, who's the running backs coach and thinking of the fear that would enter my mind, having to raise my hand in that moment. Not, not volunteering for that myself personally.

25:38 It's just the, I, what I try to tell players or teams, if you don't practice it, it's not just going to miraculously happen in your game. This is something that you have to practice all the time. You're going to do it right.

25:51 You're going to do it wrong. And what I see, so I was talking to a Lurie hall of fame, excuse me, let me give him his respect.

25:57 I was talking to hall of fame, Lurie Fitzgerald. And he goes, yeah, the peanut punch is cool. But he was like, he goes, you've also.

26:06 Ruined football for defensive players. And I say, what do you mean? He goes, you've gotten so good at this damn punch.

26:14 People don't even try to make a tackle. And he goes, I feel like it's kind of destroyed football in the sense because they're not teaching it right. Some players, high school, college, professional, they just try to run up to the player and punch.

26:30 And there's never any emphasis.

26:32 On that player actually wrapping up, trying to make the tackle if the punch is ineffective. And the one person that I come back to the most is Fred Warner for the San Francisco 49ers. In my opinion, He has it down packed. He actually punches. And if he doesn't, his arms are still going around the ball carrier and he's making the tackle. Like he's the one who does it like great. Nate Landman from the Rams. He's also another player who does an amazing job of forcing fumbles with that technique, with the right technique. Yeah.

27:10 Cause I feel like almost sometimes it could be the, you know, whatever the comp would be of what a blitz is, which is you could live by it, you could die by it if it doesn't get home, quote unquote, and you're not actually also wrapping. I like how Fred does it because he almost doesn't take a top-down angle.

27:29 Like you mentioned, he takes almost a hook.

27:32 Shot toward it so that he's also wrapping and basically curling his arms around the... Like you said, I think that's just physics. That's a smart way to think about it.

27:43 Yeah, and like I said, when I started it, I was.

27:46 I was still trying to perfect it myself.

27:48 Like I just didn't get to the league. It was like, yep, this is my move. I'm doing it. Like I started to, but all right, I got to figure out, do I come this way?

27:56 Do I come this way? Do I come more down?

27:59 Because the ball cares. They're constantly moving the ball.

28:02 So I think it's outside of hitting a fastball in baseball is probably one of the hardest things to do because you I can do this.

28:13 I'm here.

28:13 I'm like, so you never know exactly what punch you're about to throw until I throw it. It is purely I'm just reacting to what the ball carrier is giving me.

28:26 And yeah, I just I kind of got good over time doing it.

28:29 Yeah, the best over time to the point where, yes, it is your move.

28:33 It's named after you quite literally. You call Chicago home still, correct?

28:38 Correct. And so I have to ask you, and thank you for being so generous with your time. Also, I have to ask you what it's like being a Bears fan, being in Chicago right now with the Bears on the come up and kind of what the energy has been like and what the vibe has been like there.

28:54 So the vibe was good up until Sunday.

28:58 Factoring out last week.

29:00 Factoring out last week. No, it's... It's different being on this side of it. So myself and former teammates, we still watch the games and we have our, our chat room and we talk and this is massive locker room. It's just like a, a locker room on our phones with, you know, 20 players. And it's, What is what is he doing? What's this call? That's a great play.

29:28 This was awesome.

29:29 Love how they create takeaways. Love this offensive. How explosive the love the running game. So we talk about the good and the bad. However, when it's. bad It's bad. And we go hard. We go hard on our team. Because I think former players going hard on their team, they're just honest because they've been on the other side of it when they haven't played well.

29:55 Trust me. It was embarrassing what we put on TV or on the field last week.

30:00 It was an embarrassment. Have I been on teams that just played like crap and it was an embarrassment?

30:07 Absolutely.

30:07 So. I feel like former players, when they speak about certain teams and just saying it was an embarrassment or it was bad or was awful. I do think they have the credibility to say those things because they are saying it from a place like, yeah, I've been there.

30:23 I've done that.

30:24 It wasn't embarrassment. So I think that kind of keeps them safe from saying that. I know there's some players and why would you say that about your team? You know what it's like to be a player. You can't say that. It was like, I disagree. You're not coming after anybody personally, or you're not attacking anybody.

30:41 You're just giving a fair, honest assessment.

30:43 And what we saw, Sunday, they just didn't, they didn't look like they.

30:50 Wanted to be out there.

30:51 They didn't look like they wanted to, there was just like no energy after last week's win.

30:56 Like we just, we looked very, very flat. I know Ben Johnson. I'm not going to say I know him very well.

31:03 I do think and know for a fact that he is going to have his team primed and ready to go for this week's game coming up. I think it'll be a complete 180 from what we saw on Sunday.

31:15 Yeah, I am.

31:16 I'm kind of in awe of Ben Johnson.

31:18 I know that just objectively never having played, obviously, but someone who's so curious about how.

31:25 He never played flag. He never did flag football.

31:27 I did.

31:28 I was a flag football quarterback. I was damn good, too. And I'm a lefty. So that was that was fun.

31:33 There you go.

31:34 And I can still throw a regulation size.

31:37 Thank you so much.

31:38 And, you know, I think that he is one of the really gifted, like, play sequencers and designers and very creative on the, on the same token, I am a little scared of him. Like, I think he is a little bit intense and sane. Like I think in a good.

31:56 Way, right?

31:57 Like, So what can, what can you tell me about him? Maybe to make me feel less intimidated if I'm ever, you know, back in one of these press conferences or if I have a question, like he, cause he, he, to me, I'm like, it's a little, it's sort of the, the angry eyes behind the smile kind of thing. Like, you know, some of these great coaches have that, man. I, I.

32:17 I think, how can I answer this question? I think he's less intimidating one when he wins. Cause he's extremely happy.

32:27 Yeah.

32:27 Two, he's super intimidating because he just likes to win.

32:33 He's just highly competitive.

32:35 And in his mind, I'm sure it's, you know, X's and O's and Y and Z and X. It's just constantly playing in his head all the time. And then you see him on the sideline and he's.

32:45 With the pen, yes.

32:48 Like, that's his tick.

32:49 So....

32:51 I would talk to him after a win.

32:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:54 And maybe that's when he least intimidating is talk to him after a win.

32:58 And like hopefully he's not holding the pen because that's a weapon in some people's hands.

33:01 You know, I'm sure it is a.

33:02 Weapon, but I don't I don't I don't see him getting too far trying to do one of those motions right there.

33:09 I think he's I think he's I think he's OK. He's safe in that regard.

33:13 Just two more for you before I let you go. I've been dying to pick your brain around the league, a defense or two defenses. You really like watching right now. You like how they operate. You like how they, how they, you know, run their rules and how they attack. And I'm curious one or two that stick out to you.

33:29 I like Baltimore's defense.

33:30 Yeah.

33:31 So Baltimore's defense, they all play complimentary football. What I mean by that is their D line is awesome. The linebacker core. Awesome.

33:42 Secondary. Awesome. They play as.

33:44 One unit and one player specifically. I like Carl Hamilton. Like, dude, it's just I had a chance to meet him like a year ago. And I was like, hey, man, I introduced myself like, dude, you I am a Carl Hamilton.

34:00 I am a fan of yours. I love how you come to safety linebacker.

34:04 Like, who are you? Like, I like how he plays defense. I like San Francisco defense. Has a really good defense. The Seattle Seahawks, really good defense. I think those are my top three defenses that I like because all three teams all play complementary football.

34:23 They all play as one unit.

34:25 11 guys doing one thing, not 11 guys doing 11 different things or one guy doing 11 different things. They all do the same thing. They all play complementary football very well.

34:35 And they tackle. I love how they tackle.

34:38 Yeah, they communicate really well is one of those things that to me is a through line of all of those groups. And they have multiple move players within their scheme. So you mentioned Kyle. One of my favorite things of the season so far was watching Nick him and worry on all four, like down in a four point stance on the edge the other week, ready to rush. And they just, they are like a black hole. They crush all energy and matter underneath their defensive shell. So for me, I love watching groups that communicate so well at practices I always like standing behind the secondary because you can hear the most of the communication that's happening back there and it must be uh cool but also maybe a

35:19 little nostalgic to say oh if if I were called in one of those systems or if I maybe I could rush a little bit more you.

35:25 Know yeah I would love to have played for Mike McDaniels like he's just he seems like he runs a really good uh good defense and you're talking about Nick Well, see, to me, Nick and Kyle are similar because they can play multiple positions. And the more value you can add to yourself makes you more valuable to your team and it makes it more creative. And coaches, when you're like that Troy Palamalu type kind of player and your coach can just let you go and do whatever and kind of take that lead stroke and just let you just do your thing. And when you see something, just go like that, that brings so much value. And the other guys on your team, they feed off of that, right?

36:08 Like that.

36:08 It just, it's, it's great. It's a great energy. It's a good buzz for, for your team and your defense.

36:13 Yeah, and I think people really underrate how smart you have to be to do that. Like to play even one position on the field, how brilliant you have to be. But to be able to see the entire picture and the way the solar system moves around each other, and you're the center of it in a lot of those cases, if you're like the.

36:30 Move player like that.

36:32 Yeah.

36:33 To constantly be rearranging the puzzle.

36:36 And at that speed, I just don't think people understand how smart you are.

36:40 Well, it's chess.

36:41 I try to tell people... You know, the quarterback, he gets there, he makes his call. Red 18, kill, kill, kill. Mike 55, Mike 50. You know, they're trying to figure out the rotation and how the line's going to slide, the offensive line, who they're going to protect. As the defensive player, I'm trying to... Yeah, they're looking if it's single high or two high, right?

37:00 So.

37:01 whether I'm the safety or the linebacker, we're all on a rope. How I was taught was, okay, if we got two, well, then I'm going to come down, but I got to hold it long enough. And at the snap, then I'm going to come down or I'm running to the middle of the field, but I'm really not running. I'm acting like I'm running to the middle of the field and then I'm a turn and come back.

37:22 Cause I really want to think or make the quarterback think that.

37:24 I'm going to like, it's, it's a chess match and it's you and the quarterback, trying to outdo or trick each other because they're trying to, okay, it's a run.

37:34 No, I'm pulling it. It's a pass.

37:35 There's play action, right? So everyone's always trying to trick everybody. I'm trying to show you my hand, but I'm really not. I pull it at the last second. If you don't really know the intricacies of football and you just are always looking at, okay, who does the quarterback throw? Who does he hand it to? Like you're missing the bigger picture.

37:55 There's so much involved and the coffee house where the, The interior lineman, he'll act like he's going here, and then he comes and he wraps around, and him and the defensive end, they replace each other, and then.

38:07 He pushes and he bumps.

38:09 There's so much that goes on that some people have no idea what actually happens.

38:15 That's what I'm looking for. That's what I.

38:16 Love about the game, that I can sit back and I can watch and just say, oh, oh, he's going to blitz. And whoever I'm watching the game with, or my dog's like, how did you know he was going to blitz?

38:26 I'm like, well, his stance.

38:27 Well, look at it. He's like, but how did you see it that fast? I was like, well, he was telling you he was doing it. I was like, he was just standing there. I was like, well, maybe I have an inside advantage because I'm looking at the defense and everyone can clearly see that he's about to blitz. And it's like, how? And you're trying to explain to him, but that's what I love about this game. And it's just, there's so much learning. Even though I played 13, There's still a ton that I don't even know, especially even what they're doing now. So I'm constantly watching film, probably just like you, so I can just stay up to date on what teams are doing now. I'm constantly watching film.

39:05 Yeah.

39:05 Well, that's what I love about this is like, it's always changing and it does borrow from itself quite a bit, as you know, but yeah, as you're the man that most defenders do like to borrow from, um, you would know that better than anyone, but yeah, it's, that's, what's fun about it. And I think that's the human experience too.

39:22 And we touched on it at the very beginning is being a person is about growing and changing and how you interact with the world as you go.

39:29 And, um, that's what football is too also.

39:31 So that's why I always thought it's just the perfect sport for the human experience. And before I let you go, and again, you took extra time. Thank you so much. And, and I really enjoyed this today, but yeah, We're coming up on Walter Payton Man of the Year season and all these teams are nominating their players. For me, it's a really powerful, cool time because the spotlight that should always be on players who are getting involved in the community is intensified. We learn so much more about the things that they're doing behind the scenes.

39:57 And so much.

39:59 What can you remember from your experience as the 2013 Walter Payton Man of the Year recipient?

40:04 Do you carry that with you still?

40:06 Do you think about it every once in a while and how impactful that was for your life at that time?

40:11 I do. It always just comes back to I'm too blessed. I've said that throughout this interview, this conversation. Sometimes I feel like I'm too blessed. The Man of the Year Award, it's something I don't think anyone really goes out of their way to try to get the award. I think it's just who people are. And the sad part is they can only give out one. There are plenty of people that are very deserving of the Man of the Year award. Even the year I won it, I wasn't the only one who did good stuff in his community.

40:51 All the 32 guys that are nominated do phenomenal community service in their respected towns. And in my opinion, they're all deserving of the award.

41:03 The thing that I remember most about the night is just.

41:08 We were at Del Frisco's in New York and I was with the Payton family.

41:13 And I just, I talked to the.

41:15 Family, Jared, Connie, Brittany, and I just heard stories about Walter Payton as a dad and not even as a football player.

41:23 That's, that's where I remember most about winning that award.

41:27 I just, I heard stories about him as a dad and just all the things that he did in the community that you don't hear, right? These are, Stories that I'm getting firsthand from his family. And it was just, it was an amazing night. Standing ovation. Like that one, I don't know if you saw the video. I'm literally, I'm just, I'm crying. I'm trying to put my face in my hands. I was just so, I was overcome with so much emotion. I couldn't process it. Because it just, one, I didn't expect it. Two, I got a standing ovation.

42:04 And I say this all the time.

42:05 I'm just.

42:06 I'm just a dude from, you know, Carbis Cove, Texas, who went to Louisiana Lafayette to play football. And I just wanted to play a game I loved and serve and help people in my community where I ended up living. And for me to get on that platform, to have that stage and to be recognized for the body of work that our foundation, not just me, but the foundation has done was amazing. It was a beautiful moment. It really was. It was a beautiful, organic, just emotion-filled moment of joy and happiness. And there was some sadness, too, because my daughter and the names that I read, the families of children that I got to know that passed away.

42:54 So it was bittersweet, happy, sad, joy, all at the same time.

43:03 It's beautifully said.

43:04 And as somebody who has been impacted from afar by you on the field and off the field, first of all, thank you. And also thank you for indulging us and joining us today on NFL Daily.

43:16 We were really honored to have you, Peanut.

43:17 Thanks.

43:18 Thanks, Lauren.

43:19 I appreciate you having me. I loved it.

43:20 It was a good conversation.

43:22 That was, of course, the great Peanut Tillman. Thank you so much for being on with us today. And thanks to Nationwide for presenting today's episode. For your insurance and financial needs, nationwide is on your side.