40s and Free Agents: Can Marvin Harrison Jr. Revive His Career in Houston? + Cam Ward's Struggles

0:02 What's up, football fans? I'm Bucky Brooks. That's Lance Zerlin. This is 40s and Free Agents. And Lance, before we get into anything, how you doing, Buck? What's going on? I'm doing well, Buck.

0:12 How we doing? You know, here in Houston, I am– well, you guys have a baseball team you're trying to get right. So, you know, well, I'll just– I'll let you just ruminate on that. See if it's a real shame about Shohei Otani and all of the money laundering you guys are doing so that you can afford all the best players.

0:30 That's fine. And then you hit me with the trash cans for all those years. I got to hit you with the shenanigans. Your guys pull with getting all the best players in Major League Baseball in. But Marvin Harrison Jr. is the big discussion point here. Texas got their first win, but it's about getting another target for C.J. Stroud, who's playing really good football. So We can get to that whenever you want to. Let's get to it.

0:58 Yeah, let's get to it.

0:59 Yeah, I think it fits 40s and free agents because this is a guy who was drafted just– this is his third year in the league. And when he came out, there was a lot of hyperbole out there thrown in there. And I had Malik Nabors slightly ahead of Marvin Harrison Jr., but he was a very good wide receiver. Now, I thought the rookie year was okay. I thought it was okay.

1:24 He didn't take bursts on the scene with a crazy season, but he had eight touchdowns. Pretty good for a rookie season. The second year, there were injuries, but it started. He played 12 games. He missed five games. The numbers were just pretty average. And then this year, it's been really bad. It looks like the level of effort is not really the same either in terms of getting through routes. So what we're left with is a player who was a very early pick in the 2023 draft. No, I'm sorry, 2024 draft, right? Yeah, so 2024 draft. He was disappointing in Arizona if you take a look at the totality of his time there. And now we're left with they get a second-round pick from the Houston Texans for Marvin

2:15 Harrison Jr. The Texans get a second receiver, but here's the thing. Arizona's got to figure out what to do with that pick or that's a wasted pick. They need to make it count. We won't know if that hit for many years down the road, but it hurts when you have an early pick that turns into a second round pick and you didn't get enough out of that player.

2:37 You can't afford, if you're a franchise that struggles... to miss on those first-round picks. You just can't afford that. And if you're the Texans, you have to figure out, can Marvin Harrison Jr., can he play at an NFL level? Based on this year, it doesn't look great, but I don't know, Buck. I feel like we're not seeing the best of Marvin Harrison Jr. I wonder how much of his return with C.J. Stroud his old quarterback from college, how much that's going to impact him in a positive way.

3:07 There's a lot of questions left to be answered. And let's face it, Marvin Harrison Jr. is trying to rescue the narrative on his play and his ability right now because he's not thought of very highly by people based on just the tape so far. So there's a lot at play right now for the Texans trying to crank that offense up. For Marvin Harrison Jr., as he has a year, you know, basically, two more years until that second contract's coming up. And then, of course, there's all the Cardinals who are still trying to prove that they can build themselves out of the hole.

3:41 Yeah, I think it's a more fascinating story, right, of a top-five prospect who fell out of favor very quickly in his original spot. Like, Melvin Harrison Jr., by all accounts, was supposed to be a superstar. Like, people were comparing him in that organization. They thought he would be the next Larry Fitzgerald. Big deal. physical playmaking wide receiver that you could count on. A guy that was consistent, chain mover, who was smooth as all get out when we watched him in Ohio State. When you talk to the people at Ohio State, they'll swear to you he was the best one that came through there. They'll talk about how easy it was for him, how he ran, how he dominated, how he, look, I've heard these guys talk about how

4:20 he was the first one in, last one out, how he set the tone for them in terms of working. Gary Wilson talked about he had to look at Marvin Harrison, Jr., like, oh, man, this dude comes to work. I got to go to work like that. That typically just doesn't fall off, Lance. So something happened in Arizona that made him change. And look, the effort is the effort. When you saw it on tape, the lack of effort just was inexcusable, right? Like you can't run your routes like that or whatever. But I also know at that position where you're not involved, you're not active, you're not kind of factored into the game plan.

4:54 It can be hard to be motivated to do it. And I know fans don't like to hear that, but that's just human nature. And going to Houston, I think what's interesting, he gets to play with a quarterback that he knows, someone that knows him on a close level beyond just whatever they did as football teammates. That helps.

5:12 New voices, fresh start. Sometimes that works. And I remember being with the Green Bay Packers, and I remember Ron Wolfe used to talk about this, and he learned this from Al Davis. When guys are taken in the first round, Your duty is to kick the tires and see if a new voice, a new environment can get that out of him. Because if someone is taken in the top five in particular, everybody in the league viewed him as a first round pick. So that talent doesn't go away.

5:37 So what can we do to see if our spot, our way of doing things, our culture can get it out of him? I think that's where the Houston Texans are at. And I believe he goes into a situation that may allow him to be maybe who he really was. Maybe he's just a high end number two in this league. Nico Collins can command all the coverage. He is the guy on the backside against the number two corner. He gets to go about his work basically in anonymity. And maybe that's the way that he builds up his confidence because, look, he is too good for too long to not be what we thought he would be. And I know sometimes you can scout the name and that can impact and influence how you grade the player. But we saw him

6:19 do it for too long at Ohio State. to not say that he would at least be a solid starter in this league. Maybe we missed in terms of that. He should be a solid starter at a minimum.

6:31 Yeah, I would agree. And I'm looking at the early picks, early picks in the first round. Let's just call them top ten picks in the first round. When you look at those wide receivers, Jamar Chase and Jalen Waddell and Devontae Smith, I wouldn't say those guys are busts at all. Drake London and Garrett Wilson, right behind them at 11 was– Chris Alave, and then 12, Jamison Williams. I mean, those guys are, you know, are all good players. In 2023, Jackson Smith and Jigba was the first one off the board, but that was, you know, pick number 20. And, of course, he's turned into a really good wide receiver. And 24 is the big year. We had the three inside the top ten. Marvin Harrison was four. Malik Nabors, six. Roma Dunze, nine.

7:15 I'd say Malik Nabors just has to stay healthy. But, you know, the talent is clearly there. Roma Dunze is solid. I'd like to see a little bit more production out of him. Marvin Harrison, we're talking about him right now. And then, of course, you had Travis Hunter and Tett McMillan. We know Travis Hunter has rotated and shifted up more of a full-time quarterback spot. Tett's been outstanding. He was the eighth pick of the draft. Tett McMillan has been outstanding.

7:39 Of course, this last year, you had Carnell Tate and Jordan Tyson. We'll figure out who those guys are in the next couple of years. But you don't.

7:49 Typically see In the recent history, how many guys bust? They don't miss, like what it tells you.

7:57 They don't bust much, yeah.

7:58 Yeah, if a guy gets that kind of grade, he's going to be, at a minimum, he's going to be a very productive starting wide receiver. Now, when we go back and have revisionist history, I would say some of the things that would concern you now, if you go back and look at Ohio State, when Marvin Harrison Jr., those guys played Notre Dame, and they played a very talented team. set of cornerbacks that walked up and put their hands on him. That was the only time that I saw him have a little trouble against man-to-man creating separation, but not to the point that I thought that he would struggle a ton in the league. And then I would just say in the league, it just appears more so than anything, like a lack of interest, not focused,

8:39 just not the urgency that you expect the wide receiver to play. And so we'll see if he can get that back, but you are right. When we grade a receiver in the top 10 and he's selected in the top 10, more times than not, he's going to be a very, very good football player.

8:56 Yeah, you know, I'm looking at my weaknesses I had on him, and room for improvement with release against press kind of gets to what you're talking about. Allowed grabby coverage, too much leeway in disrupting his routes, needs better route efficiency without as much stutter stepping, might not have enough blow-by speed to consistently outrun corners. I think these are some of the things that we're seeing right now, you know, that are a concern for Marvin Harrison. But I also think everything that you pointed out is very accurate. Not having all the attention on him as the number one, Nico Collins is number one. Having a quarterback with good ball placement and accuracy, CJ's back to throwing the ball

9:35 right where the ball should be, that's going to help him. The team itself, has a very defined culture inside the locker room. I think that will help him. It gets him back into that kind of Ohio State mindset of wins are expected in this locker room. So those are all things that we're really waiting to see with Marvin Harrison Jr. But it is a position that can bust some you know, I'm always concerned when you have a lot of, when you have to rely on a lot of contested catches. So some of the, when I look at data points, but I look at how you win contested catches on the college level. I look at that data and then I look at how many of your routes are contested. And I've got a little formula that,

10:19 kind of creates a number for me that has been fairly predictive of what it's kind of going to look like for wide receivers on the pro level. And honestly, when you ran that formula, he actually fell into the category of could have some issues. I just went back and looked at it today because I didn't even think about it back in 2024. He was Marvin Harrison Jr., you know, so I didn't worry about it that much.

10:42 But Wide receivers who must live with contested catches like Drake London coming out, you better be sure that you're really, really good at it. Drake London is really, really good. But you've got to have physicality. You have to have a certain body type size. And you have to have an upper echelon level of competitive nature to win 50-50s on a constant basis. Look at DeAndre Hopkins. Hop wasn't fast, but Hop was just nasty. It was nasty work every time.

11:14 You wanted a 50-50 him. I mean, he wanted it worse than pretty much any corner he went up against.

11:19 Yeah, so what you're talking about is that dog factor. Are you a dog? Do you have that competitive energy and stamina that you live for those moments? Here's what's interesting about Marvin Harrison Jr. I know people will talk about why do scouts obsess so heavily about pre-draft workouts, combines, and those things. You remember, he did nothing. You got nothing on Marvin Harrison Jr. throughout their process. That's right.

11:43 That's right. Like you were, hey, we're working out. We're getting ready for the season, whatever. So now revisionist history, you start talking about press releases, didn't get a chance to see his improvement. Talk about route running ability, the four tree, we didn't get a chance to see the refinement, the improvement. Speed, never got a chance to fully assess his speed. Yeah, we can talk about the GPS and all that, but you know, like I know, scouts love to put people on the clock so they can get a true feel for who he is and what he is or whatever. We didn't get any of that kind of stuff. So in essence, the Arizona Cardinals drafted them cold.

12:19 They got a chance to look at the tape. They got a chance to meet them, but they really didn't get a chance to put their hands on them to know what they were getting. I'm not saying that that is why it failed, but I do think it might be a bit of a cautionary tale in terms of the evaluation process and how important it is to get more of the information as we're beginning to put together to find a profile. Yeah.

12:43 I'm, I'm typing it in. I want to go find, I think, uh, Abdul Carter was like that, right. It was, it was Arvel Reese. I'm trying to remember the guys who haven't worked out at all. Cause I'm interested to go back and look, this is kind of becoming a little bit more of a recent phenomenon, but you're right.

12:58 That's one of those things where I'd forgotten that Marvin Harrison didn't do anything. And, and I know there were thoughts that he was going to run and potentially in the four, um, in the four fives. And that's maybe why he wasn't going to run. Um, That's okay. You can run a 4.5, but you've got to be able to have great ball skills. You've got to be highly competitive.

13:19 You need to run good routes so that you get the most out of that speed. Listen, NFL people want to see you in the postseason, whether it's at a pro day, whether it's at the combine. They want to see it. Arizona got stuck in a spot where they didn't get to see it. So they drafted him over neighbors. Didn't work out for him. We'll see what Marvin Harrison Jr.

13:43 We'll see if he can reignite the energy and excitement about him as a prospect with the Houston Texans. Texans got their first win, but it was against the Titans. You know, it was a walkthrough.

13:56 Let's stay on that, right? Because we're talking about Marvin Harrison Jr. being a bust. Like, I don't know if you pay attention to what's going on in Titans land, but man, the media outlets are on. former number one overall pick Cam Ward. They are tearing him to shreds week after week, not only about his performance, but about the way he carries himself in pressers. They're saying that, hey, why don't we put a plug on this experiment? Robert Sala had to come out and say, no, no, no, he's going to continue to start all these things. Now, look, number one overall pick, we're not even halfway into his second season, but people are already saying, yeah, the Titans missed on that. One, I want to know, what did

14:37 you think about him coming out? And the little bit that you got a chance to see, I mean, is he deaf or off? Like, did he completely fall apart from the guy that we saw at the University of Miami?

14:49 Yeah, I think, so I had what would amount to a high second-round grade on him, a high 63. I wasn't surprised he went one. Team needed a quarterback. He was the best quarterback in that draft on paper. I mean, obviously, you could argue Tyler Shuck, who, He's got a much better situation, I would argue, even though they're only 1-4 to start the season. I don't think he fell off.

15:13 I think the problem is, remember, this is a guy who went to Incarnate Word, and then he went to Washington State, and then he went to Miami. He's at Tennessee. He's had a couple different head coaches already, two different offensive staffs. It has been a wildly inconsistent– Like he hasn't had consistent voices in his ear. He hasn't had consistent offenses to work under. And I'm not making an excuse for him because his play hasn't been good enough, but I'm not ready to write the final chapter on Cam Ward's career by any stretch of the imagination. I think that's, I think we still have a lot of, there's still a lot of terrain to explore, but you need to find pretty quickly the right, you have Carnell Tate, right?

16:00 But you've got to get the right running back in there for him. You're going to have to make sure that you have an offensive line that is solid. And then maybe most importantly, the quarterback coach or play caller, you have to get the best fit for him possible so you give him the best chance. Cam's got to do it himself. It's on Cam. Watching him against the Texans, I mean, he just doesn't have a great feel for the pocket. He didn't have a great feel for timing of– his progressions and things of that nature. He just, he doesn't find a rhythm in pro football right now. And I do wonder sometimes Bucky, if, if, and I've seen that same issue on the college level with Arch Manning.

16:44 Sometime I wonder if coaches are saying, this is our offense and we got to fit you into this offense or are they no longer simplifying? Like I would simplify as much as possible with the young quarterback until I thought he was ready to, to take the next step. And I don't know if the Titans are doing that or not, but Cam hasn't played well, but I also think the media scrutiny of him has been a little bit much considering what he has to work with as well.

17:12 Yeah, it's so funny, man. You talk about turning on a pig really, really quickly. They certainly have turned on him in terms of just the way they view him, the way they're coming after him for the presses and everything. It's just interesting to see him fall from grace so quickly in Tennessee. And I'll say this, like you alluded to him being overdrafted, but sometimes when you're a quarterback needed team, you're kind of a slave to what the draft class provides you. And in that class, it was Cam Ward, Shadur Sanders, Tyler Shutt. I mean, like Jackson, like you had to make a decision on which one you thought. And so Cam Ward, the story was great.

17:50 Him going down to Miami, the way he led them, the dog mentality and personality that he showed. However, some of those things will come back to bite him because he's showing that same stuff in front of the podium. And he's really struggling with all the losses. Like the transparency, the true serum that he's delivering is falling flat because you shouldn't say that your team is booting. You shouldn't say they're garbage. You shouldn't say that. Like you need to be above that as a representative. But I do wonder when we look at these quarterbacks and so often on the outside, we blame the quarterback and say, hey, he's a failure and this and that. But shouldn't we put some of this on the organization? Has he had

18:31 everything that he could have to do it? Because remember, Brian Callahan was the one that drafted him before they even got to the midpoint. They got him up out there. Then he played with interim. Mike McCoy was the head coach. Now you bring in Robert Sala, defensive coach, who brings in Brian Dayball, who had Jackson Dart. But he got fired from that situation. Like, have we really done the best for him in Tennessee to set him up for success?

18:56 I would say no.

18:57 No, I would say no as well. Just looking at the drafts, this year they got a developmental defensive end who is going to take a little while on Keldrick Falk. I like Anthony Hill. He's providing you good defensive. But on the offensive side of the ball, Carnell Tate, yes, you did what you needed to right there. But looking at the rest of this draft, DK is a fast player.

19:24 Gunner Helm, that's a fourth-round pick. Gunner Helm. is a fourth-round tight end. He's okay.

19:31 A.O.

19:31 Manor is just okay as maybe a wide receiver three, four on most teams. They had J.C. Latham in place beforehand on the offensive line, but no.

19:43 Rondell Robinson, they made a big deal to get Rondell Robinson.

19:46 Yeah, and Rondell Robinson, he got a ton of targets because Malik Neighbors was out last year. So the stats maybe were a little bit inflated because there was no Malik Neighbors. I look at the Titans roster, and this is just not good enough. across the board. I'm not sure a lot of quarterbacks would do well. That's not to excuse Ward because he's not playing well enough, but maybe they're not mutually exclusive. Maybe Cam's got to play better.

20:12 And I know that Tennessee, I know he has to play better. I know Tennessee is still in rebuilding mode. This is nowhere close to being rebuilt. There's still a lot of work that needs.

20:22 To be done.

20:23 And unless a guy is a massive failure and you think he's not the right guy mentally, he's not the right guy personality-wise, I think you have to give these quarterbacks at least three years when you draft them on a really bad team, a bad roster, because that process of rebuilding the roster takes a while. And one thing we have seen Bucky is that when you give talented quarterbacks more time and sometimes the clock's just going to run out on their first team, that second team, we are finding more and more quarterbacks are having some level of success. We saw with Gino Smith, um, you know, a little later in his career, obviously Sam Darnold, obviously Baker Mayfield has had success, but more and more, we're

21:05 starting to see these young quarterbacks. It just, it, it takes more time than you're going to be given as a first round pick on a, on a below average team. And, you know, it's just, your time kind of runs out there and then you don't really hit your stride maybe until your second and sometime third team.

21:22 Yeah. Before we break, I want to talk about another young guy. who showed out this weekend. That was David Bailey for the New York Jets. Had three sacks. Really dominated the game against the Cleveland Browns as they had eight sacks total. Now, I know being from Texas, you were all over him. I'm going to be honest with you.

21:41 I wondered if we'd be able to have the kind of success that he's having as what I thought was a one-trick pony. But, man, his speed, his fastball, his fastball might be enough to do it. Maybe... In Texas terms, maybe he is J.R. Richard. I don't know, but he is definitely blowing it by him because to get three sacks in a game and to dominate the way he did against the Browns is just the tip of the iceberg for him.

22:06 Yeah, I really liked him a lot. I had a pretty high grade on him. I think he was my number two prospect in a draft, I believe, behind Arvel Reese. I have to check. But I really love that fastball. As you mentioned, his getoff is just going to be– I knew it would be really, really tough. for a lot of tackles to deal with. Number one, even if they get clean sets, it was going to be tough.

22:30 And then if you were just a step slow, he had a real ability to just beat you with that third step. He was already around the corner and you were in a lot of trouble. And he's got a little inside counter with it as well. I just look at him as a basketball slasher. That's how I saw him when I watched on tape. He reminded me of a slasher in basketball who can take you off the dribble, and before you know it, he's flying through the air dunking on you. He had that kind of quick explosiveness out of nowhere, and I didn't think that he's a guy who has to set up a lot of openers and counters with his hands. I felt like he had the athletic ability to really go get sacks quickly. Now, he's going to struggle against technicians who have length and

23:16 who have a good feel for cutting off the top of the rush. He's going to still have some issues, and he'll have to learn to circumvent that. But when it comes to– there's going to be certain matchups where he's going to dominate because it's an athletic mismatch for him. So I was– I liked– I really liked what I saw on tape from him last year. Anytime you're an elite athlete with elite speed off the edge, you're still going to go get yourself eight. Even if you're not a real talented sack man, you're still going to go get eight, nine. Like you can survive in the league a long time just being explosive offensively. with your first and second steps.

23:50 Yeah. Without even reading your report, I'm trying to think of who was your comparison for him when he came out?

23:56 My comp on him was Nick Benito.

23:58 Oh, that's not a bad one. That's not a bad one. Yeah.

24:01 And it's, it's the way he rushed the quarterback more than body type. It was kind of how he did it, where Nick was like, once he got off the jump, you were in major trouble with Nick Benito. If he got first step on you.

24:12 You know, it's funny. I saw Yvonne Miller have a conversation and, It speaks to what we've seen elite guys do. He said most guys mess up because they think you've got to have this deep back to be a high-level pass rusher in the league. But what you really need to have is a signature move and maybe a compliment.

24:27 And Von Miller talked about speed is everything for him. His get-off, his dip and rip, being able to turn the corner, that has allowed him to be a dominant rusher for a long time. And then when I think about David Bailey, you talked about him being a basketball slasher. First-step quickness and burst, like that is– all that you need, and then his ability, as you say, at the top of the rush to be able to figure something out in time. If he can figure that out, that's great.

24:51 But you talked about he'll get eight to ten sacks just on effort and explosion. Right. Coming off the ball and just being relentless with the effort, that gives you that. And you look up, Aaron Glenn has a nice foundational piece to build the rest of the defense around because this guy can create consistent pressure off the edges.

25:13 And if you have speed to power, it's the same concept. Outstanding physical strength to dislodge an anchor for a tackle combined with effort, you know, radical effort where you just won't stop until the snap's done. That guy's going to go get you nine sacks a year also because effort, if you're an effort rusher with elite explosiveness or an effort rusher with outstanding play strength, Those guys are going to get a certain number of sacks just because of those traits that they have. It's the ones who start to tie multiple facets together, including hand usage and setting up moves and instincts as a rusher. That's where you start getting into the 14, 15, 18 sacks, you know, the TJ Watts stuff. But Miles Garrett was an example

26:06 of even if Miles rushed you the same way every single time, He's going to probably get to 10 sacks, even if that's the only thing he did. And clearly that's not the only thing he does. He's one of the premier rushers of all time, but so was Vaughn Miller and Vaughn had rare ankle flexion to where once he got to the top of the turn on you, you were pretty much cooked because you couldn't, he could dip down so low that big, tall tackles couldn't really do anything with.

26:30 No, I couldn't do anything with him. And you're seeing that and you're seeing how David Bailey is being able to really impose his will with that freak is athleticism. It just makes me, uh, Salivate thinking about the next collection of pass rushers that are going into the league and next year's draft. We'll have plenty of time to talk about that. And on the other side of the break, we will talk about some of these young guys that are in the college game that are beginning to pop up.

26:53 We'll be back. All right, OZ, you know everything about Texas right now, that Texas-Oklahoma rivalry. You know it well. I'm sitting here with a daughter that is at UT University. Right now she had to walk through. Where did they play that? Did they play that during the state fair?

27:14 Yeah, state fair in Dallas.

27:15 Yeah, in Dallas. A lot of horns down.

27:17 A lot of horns down.

27:19 When she was walking out. So we've got to talk about Arch Manning. And I know it's early. It's too early to kind of prognosticate where he's going to go. But based on what you've seen, even TV scouting, what's going on with Arch?

27:34 You know, I think the number one, you'll hear people say, say this and that. Number one, yes, he has great size. He is a good athlete. I think the arm is solid. I don't think it's special. I do think he makes some good throws and arm angles and things like that. You know, he can, he can get it out. He can get it out on the move, but I think there's a real fundamental problem with Archman. And this goes back to what I've said before the year was even started.

28:00 It's the same thing I saw on tape last year. Bucky, he, he's not, people want his dad to be Peyton Manning. They think that he's going to be Peyton Manning, but he's not Peyton Manning. And the problem I have is that he doesn't win before the snap in terms of pressure recognition. He doesn't seem to have a pre and post snap plan when pressure's in his face. He has a hard time getting from one to two to three with good timing. There's too much hanging on to the football.

28:31 And he simply can't two biggest problems are he can't find a rhythm as a passer. And the second one is his ball placement and accuracy just is not great. It's just very average at best. And it's not on the NFL level where it needs to be. So he doesn't put the ball right on the hands. He struggles to find a rhythm. And I think that basic defensive, you know, basic issues with pressure and different coverage looks has, has really caused him problems. And, I think the football IQ isn't there yet, if we're being honest, Bucky. I don't think it's there yet to take that step up into the NFL. Can you imagine seeing a Brian Flores defense that throws 90% blitz at you? I mean, look, there's a lot of quarterbacks who couldn't handle it. But

29:17 Arch is not ready to handle the NFL game. He's just not. And I don't think it's going to be ready by the end of the year, if I'm being completely.

29:25 Honest with you. You know, look, so I saw him live last year versus Vanderbilt during homecoming. And I felt like that was kind of a bit of a breakout game for him because statistically it looked really good. But being there, I saw a lot of bubble screens. I saw a lot of at or near the line of scrimmage throws. And I saw a lot of playmakers kind of stretching it out with catch and run ability and those things. I love the athleticism. He is more athletic than his uncles. He moves around. He can make things happen on the perimeter. He does have some of that zone run, do a threat ability, but when you take away the scripted winners, I don't know where he manufactured the other explosives. Like if it's not scripted and perfect

30:08 all the time, it's really, really hard for him to generate it. And so that puts a lot of pressure on Steve Sarkeesian. Then it put a lot of pressure on any NFL offensive coordinator, man, that I got to be right every time. And when you come off of watching a Monday night game where you see Matthew Stafford and Josh Allen operate in the improv world, where they're creating these home run plays outside of the structure of the offense, it's just hard to imagine, okay, man, we're talking about Arch as the number one overall, as a top first-round pick. He doesn't have those tools or he hasn't shown those tools yet. It's hard to say, hey, man, this guy is going to be the next one when he hasn't proven that he can be the one.

30:49 I don't– I'm not sure he and Sark are the right fit either.

30:54 Yeah.

30:56 I feel like Sark knows how to get what he needs out of pocket passers. But to me, Arch Manning really needs to be somebody who runs the football a little bit more. He's big and athletic. He, he hangs onto it. When you're at games, you can see he's got opportunities to pull and go, you know, I know coaches coach quarterbacks to stay in the pocket. Don't pull it down and go too much. Don't go too soon.

31:25 But a guy like Josh Allen, he sees big chunks of grass and he says, I'm going. And it's not about not being a pocket quarterback. It's about making an explosive play. Uh, when explosive plays are there and, and arch simply, he needs to take better advantage of his legs. I would like to see Steve Sarkeesian call more called runs for him. Unless that's a conversation he's had with the Manning family that, you know, that, um, They don't want him running unless that's been designated. I would run Arch more. I think sometimes when you run the football, you take a little shot, you get into the game, into the flow of the game, you get your confidence.

32:02 I feel like you are doing Arch Manning and your offense a disservice if you don't utilize certain elements of the running game with Arch. And I think he needs to scramble, tuck it, and go. Don't sit there and try to make these unbelievable extended plays. Right now you just need to tuck it and go if you have a chance and go create positive plays. So I'm not sure that he and Sark are the perfect fit, to be honest with you, Bucky. And that's not a shot at Sark. That's not a shot at Arch. I'm just wondering if that offense fits that quarterback and if that quarterback fits his offense.

32:42 Because what we're saying is he's not transcendent. He's not transcendent enough that we can just drop him in any offense and he can have success. We're saying that Archie Manning is more of a system player than an outer-worldly talent. And that is okay, but he has to be in the right system. I agree with you that I thought that we would be seeing a guy that could light it up. And because of the influence of his uncles, Peyton and Eli, we thought that, look, the pre-snap part was going to be where he was going to be basically a robot at the line of scrimmage. He was going to be dicing people up because he could see and anticipate the blitzes, coverage spinning, all of those things.

33:17 He's not doing that. And when you talk about like offensive fits and those things, like, okay, everyone is going to naturally say like, hey, like the Sean McVay, Shanahan system, how they prop quarterbacks up. But then a part of that is, man, can you turn your back to the defense and relocate the receiver and throw with anticipation and all those things? That is high-level quarterback play. that is required to do that. We'll see. It'll be interesting to see how he finishes. But the one thing that we do know, what we thought the 2027 quarterback class was going to be, it certainly hasn't lived up to the hype.

33:52 Arch Manning, Dante Moore has been banged up. Look, I like Winadad Chambliss, but the big issue that you're going to have with him is how many people are going to go for the size and the height and those things, you know? And I mean, so now we're Mensah from Miami. I mean, a lot of the names that we were talking about early, they haven't played at the level that we thought they would be playing at midseason.

34:17 I think Mince is going to be the guy right now if I had to predict it. But, yeah, there's still a lot of quarterback play left. We'll see what happens. Lenore Sellers just came off of a really big game. But from the standpoint of guys who are starting to separate, You know, the number two wide receiver, Cam Ward, getting back to Tex, not Cam Ward, but Cam Coleman, he has not had the year expected. And some of that falls on, you know, quarterback play or what have you.

34:44 But I'm still waiting for him to break out. I've got an article that I'm turning in tomorrow, which are my top 20 players on the senior bowl top 300 list. And so I'm watching a ton of tape over the last several days. And I'm not sure how I'm going to change. Like Dante Moore, you mentioned Dante. He's a tricky because I know what he's capable of. He wasn't too good the first two. Then he was hurt. I'm not going to drop him way down my list, but I have to drop him a little bit because I haven't seen what I needed to see this year. He was a better player so far. He was a better player last year than he is this year. So that's all I can work off of for right now. And I'd say the same thing with Cam Coleman. I need

35:25 to see more from Cam Coleman at wide receiver, regardless of you know, how Arch is playing. I think that we should see a little bit more from some of these guys. They have to start to, they have to start to really impress at some point, but I'm already starting to get a feel for it. It's not going to be a great offensive line draft this year. Maybe not as deep a pass rushing draft, some pretty good linebackers, wide receivers, you know, every year we have pretty good wide receivers, but it's, it's, I'm not sure that this draft class right now is in a little bit of flux.

36:00 And the five years to get five seasons in, I think is going to push a lot of third and fourth rounders back to college, Bucky, because the money is so good at certain positions that I think they're going to choose getting paid on the college level for one more year than going in as a third, fourth, or fifth rounder. And that could hurt the depth of the draft just a little bit this year if we're looking at it from a macro view. From a college standpoint, the big games this weekend, Ohio State takes on Indiana this weekend. Indiana struggled. Hoover, this is a big game for Hoover, the quarterback. He needs to show that he needs to stamp himself as a name that can be discussed in the top six or seven quarterbacks of the

36:42 NFL draft when it's all said and done. For Ohio State, it's just Julian Sanchez. Get the ball to number four. You're going to be fine. For Notre Dame and BYU, there's another one. BYU at home could be a tricky game. They have a pretty good offensive line. They've got a veteran quarterback now, a guy who has been under center for a couple of years, C.J. Carr. It's a good chance for me to get a look at C.J. Carr, the game manager and the playmaker. How far does he land on one side versus the other side? Because those games at BYU can be a little tricky sometimes, and that's what Notre Dame is looking at this week.

37:18 The other thing that Notre Dame is looking at is, I'm going to say this, Notre Dame has always been the heavyweight champ when it's been able to play these teams this year. They come out, they're rock'em, sock'em robots. I saw them do it at my Tar Heels. They're bigger, more physical than the opponent. They wear them down. They're going to face a BYU team that's not going to blink when they hit them with the haymaker.

37:37 They never do. They never do.

37:40 We'll get a chance to see how they respond because, look, Sataki's going to have them ready to go. Also, with C.J. Carr, It's been so easy for him. It was really easy for him against North Carolina. He just picked them apart. They shredded them. I want to see if there's a level of adversity where they fall behind or something like that.

37:57 I want to begin to see him because the one thing, we talked about the quarterbacks, and his name has been mentioned, but we didn't mention him. The one thing about C.J. Carr has been his efficiency, his consistency, and his reliability in terms of you ask him to play a certain way, he does it, and he does it fairly mistake-free. There's comfort in that for some guys. Even though we don't like to talk about the quote-unquote game manager up top, people are going to find him comforting because big stage, big environment, Notre Dame, I'm going to say he's going to get a little bit of the gold dust sprinkled on him as a prospect. And if he uses it the right way, he certainly can vault some of those

38:39 more heralded names that we had talked about before.

38:42 I'm going to throw a name at you, and the response is not going to be a positive response, but You have to take it back to when this guy was drafted. Is there a similarity in your opinion based on what he's asked to do and what his abilities are with J.J. McCarthy?

38:57 I knew you were going to say that. Yeah, look, I think the people that are willing to kind of try and poke holes in every prospect, as you should, will bring up that comparison because he is more of a managerial type, what he's asked to do at Notre Dame. They have a tremendous amount of talent. They have a great defense. They can run the ball. They overwhelm you.

39:22 And so what you do when you're in those situations is you manage and control the game. You make a couple plays when you're called upon. But your job is to make sure that we get the point A from point A to point E without incident. And he does that. And so what you open these games, these high leverage marquee games, that you see enough playmaking to make you feel confident that, hey, he has that in his bag.

39:47 Because let's be honest. I felt like Fernando Mendoza was in that class. I felt like Fernando was more caretaker, didn't really put it all on his shoulders. The system, the playmakers around him were right, and he used that to be the number one overall pick. I'm not saying that CJ Carr can't or won't do that, but there is some of that in his game where you do want to see, hey, if we got to put it on him, can he handle it?

40:13 A couple of quick points before we go. I stuck around on that Raiders– in that Raiders-Patriots game because I wanted to see if Fernando would get in. He got in. It looked pretty good. He was very decisive. I think he was 6-7, but he was decisive with the football. He threw it very, very accurately. I liked what I saw in mop-up time for Fernando Mendoza. I still think they're going to roll with Kirk Cousins for as long as possible, but there will be a point where Fernando takes over this year. I firmly believe that. Brian Thomas Jr., I want to ask you, he came out with such fanfare with Malik Nabors, had a great first year, fell off the second year, and now the number's just nine catches for 105 yards for Brian Thomas. Parker Washington's turned

41:04 into just an unbelievable talent over there, such a reliable player. What's going on? What's going on with Brian Thomas? Is a change of scenery potentially something he could be looking at before the trade deadline?

41:17 Look, I'm going to tell you this, and you're going to be shocked because you had a chance to look at Josh Cameron coming out from Baylor, kind of the return specialist, the big physical guy, whatever.

41:27 He's like a running back playing wide receiver.

41:29 Yeah, he's a running back playing wide receiver, but what he's shown to be is he has reliable hands. He's great in traffic. He does a really good job with the ball in his hands right out to get to what you expect as a returner. Right now, I'm not saying they're in a job share, but some of the snaps that were going to Brian Thomas Jr. are now going to Josh Cameron. And a lot of that is due to, I would say, Brian Thomas Jr. opened the door because of his inconsistencies catching the ball. And then the system that the Jaguars are using that best fits Trevor Lawrence, everything is in breaking and right in the middle of the field. Well, if you're going to throw the ball over the middle of the field, your receivers

42:06 have to be able to work well in traffic. And they have to have, I would say, great hand-eye concentration. Coordination and concentration to be able to get that thing in multiple windows. Brian Thomas Jr. did just a little something that's off where it's not connecting. He had two opportunities to score touchdowns against the Eagles in London. One was a bang-bang play at the end of the game where he couldn't bring that last foot down. And then another one was, I mean, I dropped the ball, got on him, lay, but Trevor threw a dart. and it snuck through there and he wasn't able to catch it.

42:43 So I think there's a confidence issue and a scheme fit issue. I don't know if he'll be moved, but man, he certainly has fallen a ton from where he was when he was a Pro Bowl receiver that first year as a rookie to now being a guy that is kind of in that 3-4 role because Parker Washington Jr. is the one. Brandon Strange is the guy that is in second position. Jacoby Myers is kind of third. And then It's a Brian Thomas Jr. get in when you're fitting, even though they're trying to create explosives and things for him.

43:15 It's kind of where we're at. Yeah.

43:17 Well, they take on the Texans, Jaguar State over in London. You're going to London for that, right?

43:24 Yeah, going back over there. I got to say this. I'm fascinated by the Texans, not by the personnel moves that they made with Marvin Harrison Jr., but D'Amico Ryan grabbing the call sheet. And the reason why, I don't know if you saw this long video, diatribe that Robert Sala went on when it came to defense. He was talking about all of it. It was great. Anyone has an opportunity on X to look that up. They should look it up because it is very informal about the two ways that you can build a defense. But then he has some other comments about D'Amico Ryan's and how D'Amico goes about it. And when you think about what that defense has always been when D'Amico called it and how he wanted to be more of the head coach

44:01 like mid-year last year, gave it to Berg, but to take it back, I know it's the Titans, but that defense played more like the way we're used to seeing the Texans play. I just think the force of his personality and his intimate knowledge of that defense makes them scary. So this will be a big test for the Jaguars to take them on overseas.

44:23 Well, good luck getting that body clock right when you come back, Buck. Tuesday's going to hit you like a sack of bricks. Let me know if you need to take one later.

44:32 In the week. Well, look, it'd be the second time because I did it last weekend. I did the thing in Philadelphia. I go to the game. I broadcast, do my duties on the game. I go back to the hotel. I basically land, stay up all night so I can sleep on the plane the entire way coming back. I'm not a plane sleeper.

44:49 You're a plane sleeper?

44:51 Like a baby. I wish I was. I flew 14 straight hours nonstop to Tokyo.

44:55 I got about 14 minutes of sleep at most. It was brutal. I can't sleep on planes.

45:07 Lance, I'm like a baby. I eat and sleep the whole time. Like, eat and sleep the whole time. That's it. And I found my international flying hack. I get the exit row. So I get the leg room like I'm in those upper classes without having paid the upper class prices. And so it was good. Now, we'll see next Tuesday, the back-to-backs. We'll see how I respond in doing it.

45:28 But it should be fun. All right.

45:31 Well, that's going to do it for 40s and free agents. We're doing this every single week. Make sure that you spread the word. Hit like. Hit subscribe. Push all the buttons that you want to. Just make sure you check us out every single week. I'm Lance Zerline. That's Bucky Brooks. And have a jolly good time in London.

45:48 All right, man. We out.