Dabo Swinney: Leadership, Clemson Football & Building a Championship Culture

0:00 Welcome to On the Line with Jim Pine. I'm Jim Pine. This episode is brought to you by PLS Aviation. Private Aviation perfectly executed. Now let's get on the line. Today on the line, we have the winniest coach in ACC football history, three-time national champion. One is a player, two is a head coach, a legendary head coach.

0:19 Please welcome Coach Davosweeney. Coach, welcome to the show.

0:22 Thank you, Jim. Good to be we, man.

0:24 Yeah, appreciate it. Busy time of year. We're just talking about that. Football's back. Here we are and gearing up for another great season and you know, great great stuff ahead. So, Coach, you you're there. It's going into your 24th season at Clemson. Unbelievable run. What you've built there is unbelievable.

0:40 High integrity, great program. I've admired it from afar. You know, and I see going but my back, I I I was went to Virginia Tech, and I know the long history there. And you know, a special guy to me, Coach Beamer. I know you battled coach. You were 3-0 against Coach, I believe at least. And I know you beat Virginia Tech a bunch.

0:57 But you know, I was talking to me about playing against Coach Beamer back in the days. I think 2011 you beat him twice. Once in a regular season, once in an ACC championship, won your first championship. I felt like that kind of you guys then you took off from there and great things happened. But and that was kind of the end of Coach Beamer's you know legendary run.

1:17 But talk to me about Coach Beamer, what he you saw as him as a you know, a colleague, a fellow head coach, because I think he's a guy that did it the right way, just kind of like I how you do it the right way, too.

1:28 No, there's no question. Coach Beamer is everything right about college football, and and honestly, there's there's not enough Coach Beamers in this profession today. Hopefully, hopefully that will change. I mean, he he he's he's as good as it gets as a human being, first of all. A great football coach, and you know, his his history and his uh you know all that he accomplished as a football coach is well documented.

1:51 But I think what's what's not as well documented because it's still ongoing and and it's an ongoing legacy forever, or are just you know, how he lived his life and how he impacted people's lives through what he what he chose to do, what he was called to do as being a football coach. And and uh, you know, before I would say anything about competing against him, and I competed against when I was an assistant, you know, got our teeth kicked in up there a couple times at at Blacksburg when I was the receiver coach.

2:20 And but when I became the head coach and my first season was 09, I go to the the uh I'll never forget it, I go to my first ACC, you know, coaches meetings that they do in the spring, spring meetings, they call them. And I I I mean, I I'm like, what do I wear? You know, I you know, I've never been in one of these meetings, and I and you know, I walk into that room and it's it's Ralph Freegent, it's uh uh Tom O'Brien, it's uh Al uh at Groh at Virginia, it's Paul Johnson, it's David Cutcliffe, it's Bobby Bowden, it is Frank Beamer.

2:54 You know, I'm I'm just looking around this room and I'm like, where am I gonna sit? Like, you know, I mean it's it was I think it was Spasiani, uh, you know, with the coach at BC, you know, and I'm looking around, I'm going, and I just remember, you know, Frank Beamer and Bobby Bowden, two of the best gentlemen you will ever meet.

3:16 And and I, you know, Coach Beamer from day one, day one, me getting into this role was just so awesome to me. And uh, you know, I mean, he you could talk to him, and I didn't really know him, but but I got to know him, you know, in these meetings and spending time with him. And and he was just one of the one of the good guys in this in this profession.

3:37 He's a great husband, he's a great father. I got to know Shane for many, many, many years, uh, you know, as as we were both assistants, and and then when I became the head coach here, you know, I followed Shane and his and his uh you know places that he was at. We would always kind of stay in touch. And again, just such great respect for for Coach Beamer.

3:58 And then, yeah, and then in 11, you know, we're coming off, I mean, we we had a tough season last year, but but that was the second worst season. My my worst season was 2010. And uh, and so that was a you think this offseason's been bad, go back and go back and read those headlines from uh spring of 11 and summer of 11 and fall camp of 11.

4:18 And you look up and you got Auburn, you got Florida State, and then you got to go to Virginia Tech, uh, and all of them were ranked. And at that time, no ACC team had ever won three straight ranked games. Auburn had just won the national championship, Bobby Bowden, their top 10, Coach Beamer had them top 10, they're rolling.

4:34 And uh well, we won all those games, but that win up at Virginia Tech was was the third in a row, and we won, I think, 20 to 3 and on a cold, and that was that was kind of a the just solidified, it was kind of the wind and the sails. Those guys, like like I knew we had a chance to to to be a pretty special team.

4:53 Now we didn't handle the success very well. We started 8-0, we kind of faltered a little bit, but we we got to the ACC championship game, and we might have played our best game of the year. And and when we got back when we got to the ACC championship game, I think Virginia Tech, they hadn't lost another game, and I believe they were like they were somewhere in the top 10, and we were like 15th or 18th or something.

5:15 And uh it might be the best game we played in that game. And then we played them a couple more times uh down the road, but great, great respect uh for Coach Beamer. He's a true Hall of Famer, and uh he's a friend. I just got a chance to see him this summer at an at an event, and uh just can't say enough great things about him.

5:33 And he he definitely is uh what's good about the game.

5:36 100%. He's the best. Yeah, I was around him fortunately. He recruited me, brought me in, and he's the good man. Look in the eye, tell you something, and he'd do it. It was great to see. And I I look at that season, I remember it because I watch a lot of football and I love football, right? So, and that was a pivotal thing for you guys, and you you yourself.

5:52 You you built the program from there, and it was it was great. I mean, for you to see all that. And I think one thing too, people I I I because I watch it closely, Virginia Tech. I wasn't from Virginia, I was from Massachusetts. But uh Virginia Tech did a great job recruiting in state. And I think at the end of Coach Beamer's years there, he was coached a few more years and I you know kind of ended the way it ended, but uh ends up in the Hall of Fame, which is great.

6:15 But you guys and you specifically did a great job of going to the state of Virginia, recruiting Virginia guys and getting those guys because I I saw you guys just kept going up, and I got a lot of friends that played for you in the program. You you did a great job recruiting not only Virginia but North Carolina, all the states around you, and that kind of turned the tide, right?

6:34 Recruiting was everything back then, still is today. But you you did a great job, specifically in the state of Virginia. Guys that probably would have gone to tech, went to Clemson and stuff, and that you know, the obviously your program took off, and and tech's been trying to figure it out since then.

6:48 I got I got my first quarterback was Taj Boyd. You know, uh he's from right there. What do they what do they call it? The the 507 or or whatever, whatever it is. I got Taj Boyd right there in the beach area.

6:58 Yeah, Virginia Beach.

6:59 Andre Andre Branch was from Richmond, you know, later on, Cleveland Furrell, you know, he was he was uh defensive end, became a first rounder. I mean, we had we had Cabel Connor and so many guys from Virginia uh on this team, but but it all starts with Taj Boyd. You know, I needed a quarterback, and I'd been a head coach about three weeks, and and you know, Taj came in here, and when he left, he was left as the winningest quarterback in Clemson history.

7:22 And and in that 11th season, we won the league for the first time in 20 years, and we won 10 games for the first time in 20 years. And uh so it all kind of started right there. And but to your point, you know, and even to this day, I mean I'm I'm really big on our footprint. You know, I mean, in the state of South Carolina, we we only have, you know, four and a half million people or so.

7:42 So there's more people in Atlanta than the whole state. So that that affects your the the kids we get out of South Carolina, great players, but it's not enough to to you know have a sustainable, you know, high-level football program. There's just not enough when you're talking about, you know, enough you gotta have position need, you know, you gotta fit, you know, academics, character, all that stuff, uh, the talent.

8:05 So but we've always tried to build our program from the inside out, you know, and so North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, we kind of recruit as one state. Uh and then it's we're, you know, Virginia, it's Maryland, it's Tennessee, it's it's Florida, it's Alabama. That's kind of our it's the it's the DC area.

8:24 You know, that's that's our you know, we've gotten into Philly some, but that's kind of our footprint. And then we we'll go to Texas. We'll go to Kansas. I mean, we'll go, we'll go, we'll go anywhere. Uh but that's where we've won, is, is those kids that kind of you know can get in a car and drive here, you know, pretty easily.

8:42 Yeah, no, amazing run. Unbelievable. Going back 1992, you're in Alabama. You know, you went to the University of Alabama, you you walked on your wide receiver. David Palmer, I was I was he was an all-American team with me. Uh Antonio Langham, we played together in Cleveland, Eric Curry played together in Tampa, you know, so a lot of Alabama guys.

8:59 Yeah, the guys had a great year, won the whole thing. You know, but you came on as a walk-on, you know, and then that that's very hard to do. I don't know if people understand watching this show. You know, I I play with a lot of guys like that. You really got to earn everything, work for everything, and look for your shots, your breaks, get in on special teams and figure in where you can figure in.

9:17 So that type of grit and determination, right? I think says a lot about you. But you go back further, like, you know, I your story, I watched some of the stuff going into this with your mom. You know, your mom in college, she she lived with you for a bit. Seeing her toughness, determination too, right?

9:31 That how much did all that define? Because those two things, I mean, the story your mom had polio and her time in the hospital, all that stuff, unbelievable stuff. And then you your walk-on, you you go to Alabama, and then you win a national championship. Putting all that together, I mean, it really defines who you are.

9:46 I'm not surprised by the success you had because uh what you started from and how you made it through. But tell talk to me about that, coach.

9:54 Yeah, I mean, I think we're all shaped by our experiences, and I know my drive and my my grit and my determination uh comes from how I grew up, you know, what I was exposed to. Gotta give so much credit to my coaches and people who really pushed me along the way. Uh, my mom is she might be the toughest person I know.

10:12 She might be she's barely, I don't even know if she's five feet tall. She's she's barely five feet tall, but she spent you know, most of the most of her first decade in life, she was in the crippled children's hospital. You know, she had an iron lung, she never done a body cast for for a couple years.

10:28 She had to have a her whole vertebrae rebuilt. She had scoliosis, she had polio. I mean, she just you know came up really tough. But, you know, she didn't even really get into like formal schooling until maybe eighth grade or so. And uh they said she really would never have kids. Uh she really couldn't play any sports or anything like that.

10:45 And in fact, I've got a picture of her on the front page of the Birmingham News, her senior in high school. She went to Woodlawn High School, same high school with Bobby Bowden, by the way. And and and it's it was the title was Cinderella's story, and it was her story. Here's this 18-year-old girl. She's finally a majorette in high school, and it talked about her story and her struggles as a child.

11:06 And I've I've got that article, but uh, you know, she she got married at 18, you know, she she had three sons and then seven grandsons from us three. She she, my dad married at 18 and eventually divorced, and you know, lots of things, and uh no education in the family. My dad was uh fixed washers and dryers, he was an appliance man, and my mom cut hair.

11:29 And uh yeah, life is tough. Uh and but you do what you gotta do. And you know, that that drive, I I, as the baby of three boys, I wanted something different. And I knew that if I wanted something different, I was about to do something different, you know, and so I I probably would have gone somewhere else.

11:45 I had scholarship offers and in three sports. I had plenty of I had opportunities to go play any sport, uh, but they were all small schools, JUCOs, different things. And uh but I had I I found out my counselors told me that I could get this thing called a Pell Grant. I didn't know what that was. And a Pell Did I lose you?

12:04 For a second there. Sorry, we're gonna add it to our. You got me? I got you.

12:09 So so I I learned what a Pell Grant was and what a student loan was, and I'm like, well, I'm going to Alabama because I really wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a pediatrician my whole life. I was like, I'm gonna be a pediatrician. I was a good student, and uh, so I go to Alabama, I'm pre-med, a biology major uh for my first three years down there, but I'm I I'm like, okay, you know, at the beginning I didn't know what I wanted to do.

12:31 I didn't know if I wanted to play basketball. I really wanted to play basketball. I really wanted to play basketball. And and Robert Ory and I were in orientation together. He was Mr. Basketball in the state Alabama, and I remember seeing him, and I'm like, and then I played a little pickup, and I'm you know, and then I started figuring this thing out.

12:47 There's only 15 scholarships, and then I go, okay, well, baseball is probably my most natural sport, so I start figuring this out. Then I find out they only have like 11 scholarships for 30 people. Like, you know, I'm like, well, I'm not gonna do all this, but I need a scholarship.

13:01unknown Right.

13:01 And then football, which was my hardest sport, and the one I knew I was gonna have to work the hardest in, I think it was like 90 scholarships in those days. And I'm like, well, I that's my best chance. And and then I find out that you know, they're gonna make me go through this walk-on program that fall.

13:19 I'm doing like this weight room program, 5:30 every morning, you know, they wouldn't let me ride on the team. So I'm like doing I had to do this all you know fall and all through spring, and then they let me actually practice spring of 89. And uh, man, the rest is history, you know. I I played in one game as a red shirt freshman, and and then my and then there was a coaching change.

13:39 Coaching change, Gene Stallins, a longtime NFL guy, comes in, and I almost left. I almost transferred to a D2 school because at that point I was I I really I figured out that I knew I could play. And I was like, I just I didn't think I was gonna get a chance because new coaches came in that spring. They just knew who was on a scholarship and who wasn't.

13:59 And uh, but I stayed, kind of, kind of reset my faith and my priorities, and and uh man, a couple guys got hurt first couple games. Next thing you know, about game four, I'm getting a call up to the to the to the varsity, you know, and they're like, hey, we're gonna give you a chance. And and I I he literally that's how it happened.

14:20 My receiver coach called me, I'm gonna give you a shot today. If you do well, you're playing Saturday. And I did. And so it's my sophomore year, and you know, went on and lettered three years and and earned a scholarship, and and then based on, and then what, and then I hadn't had I never had any intentions of coaching.

14:36 And uh, but I ended up switching out of biology because I just realized I didn't know I was gonna pay for med school for 10 years. I didn't love it, and and so I switched to the business school and I was getting my degree in hospital administration. We win the national championship my senior year, '92, my last game.

14:53 We beat Miami, win the national championship. All of those guys, Langham, Teague, man London, Lamansky, uh, Copeland, Curry, Sherman, Delasting. We're all great friends to this day. Jay Barker, Prince Wimley. And so we win the national championship. I'm finishing up school that spring, go out to practice.

15:11 And Coach Stallins is like, hey, you need to get a master's. And I'm like, I don't want a master's. You know, I'm I gotta I'm doing the work. I'm getting married, and and you know, he's he's a hard guy to say no to. And I was scared to death of him, still scared of him. He's 91. And so next thing I know, I'm like, well, okay, I'll get my MBA.

15:27 That'll help me kind of separate. And so I get my MBA, and a week into being a GA, a grad assistant, I'm like, wow, maybe this is what this is what I this is what God's been equipping me to do my whole life. I didn't even, I didn't even know it. And and so all of a sudden, kind of I had a lot of clarity of life for me, and and the rest is history.

15:48 You know, I GA'd for a couple years for him, and then he and then he hired me full-time, and then I stayed until we all got let go after the 2000 season, got out of coaching a couple years, and I've been at Clemson now going on 24 years. So uh it's been an amazing journey, but it all goes back to, you know, that grit, that drive, that determination, that uh, you know, will to do the work, uh, chasing what was hard as opposed to maybe what was easy.

16:15 And those were lessons that really shaped me and uh made me who I am today.

16:20 Sure, no, absolutely. One thing we talk about, I've talked about on the show a lot with people is you know, leadership and stuff like that. Adversity, coach, right? We've all faced adversity. We're gonna face it again in our life, no matter what. How do you, what what do you do to yourself or yourself, tell yourself when when your adverse situations arise?

16:36 What do you do? What's the first thing?

16:37 Yeah, well, the first thing, the first thing I always say to myself is God never says oops. You know, God never says my bad. Like I don't think we're gonna get to heaven one day and and God's gonna come up to me and say, Man, Dabbo, I'm my bad. I I'm sorry that your mom and dad got divorced. Hey, that's my fault.

16:55 You know, I think there's just certain things that we'll we don't understand. You know, sometimes we have adversity that we created, like we caused it, and so you learn from it, you own it, you know, and you grow from it. Sometimes adversity happens, you don't have anything to do with it, right? Like, I mean, somebody dies that you love.

17:12 I mean, things happen in your life. And so I just I believe I go back to my faith. I mean, that's really what I I I built my life on a foundation of faith. So I don't I'm not surprised when adversity comes. I'm not surprised when storms come. I know they're coming. And so, but I'm anchored. I'm anchored.

17:30 And so uh we I think when when you have that foundation of faith in your life and you know that uh who your creator is, uh, and you just you you you have you can you don't lean on your own understanding, right? And so I think God paints on a canvas bigger than we can see, and there's just certain things from our little this little glimpse blink of an eye of a life that we have, it's not always gonna make sense this side of eternity.

17:55 But I think we all have a choice. Uh we have a choice whether we can have faith or fear, you know, belief or doubt. We all have a choice of you know whether or not we're gonna keep going. We have a choice of whether that adversity or that mistake or that decision or whatever it is, it defines us and destroys us or it develops us, you know.

18:14 But that's a choice. So I just choose to keep going. I choose to believe. I choose faith over fear. Uh, and so that's just really what it comes down to me. If you just peel it all back, I've and and then and then I I rely on my experience, you know. I mean, I'm 56, so I've lived a lot of life. I've had a lot of bad things that I've been through in my life that I look back on, and they were they were they really sucked at the time.

18:42 Like it really was awful. And some of those things I look back on that I'm like, man, how are we gonna get through this? Man, I look back on that now. I'm so thankful for that. I'm so thankful. I wouldn't go back and change it. I really wouldn't, because I see clearly now, you know, sometimes we think God's not there with us, but when you you kind of look back, you can see, no, he was right there with you all along, all right, preparing you for for this moment, you know, whatever it is you're dealing with in life.

19:10 So I think when you when you have when you live your life that way, uh it you you have perspective when you get into these situations. And it doesn't take pain away, it doesn't take anger away. We are all human, but I do think sooner or later, uh, you know, for me, my faith centers me and and it and it gives me the calm and the storm to just keep going.

19:33 Sure. I love that. Great stuff. I mean, absolutely. That's that's the and this next one we talk about all the time too is transition, right? I played in the NFL for a while, coached, I transitioned, had to reinvent myself a few times into different things. I'm in business now, careers, and different stuff like that.

19:48 So for guys and gals out there listening and stuff, same thing. I I'm sure faith is is a big part of your answer, obviously. That's who you are. I totally believe that and I agree with it. What about transition? Someone former players of yours, right? Who who come in now, guys are making money, doing whatever, they're doing that, and they have big dreams of playing pro football, whatever, but it just doesn't work out.

20:09 Now they have to transition to either life after football, to what's next, to business. You had to do it a couple times, right? You you do Alabama ended your two-year thing, we did some commercial real estate. Then also, I think you had you I love the story with you. You had your three boys on the edge of the bed with their feet in a dangling about you, you had a thing saying, I think I'm gonna spend more time with you guys and all this.

20:30 Dad, we we want to ride the bus, we want to go to a bowl game. What do you mean? What do you don't change anything? So I I get that. That was an awesome deal. But how do you transition or how do you advise your your players? Hey guys, transition to the next thing and reinvent yourself.

20:45 Yeah, well, I think a lot of times we make this mistake. People say, you know, life after football, and and life is happening right now. You know, we have a program here called Paul Journey, and and it's it's exactly what we're talking about. It's it's it's here, first of all, to equip them as men. You know, I just think if I if if a guy leaves here and all he does is know how to run a route or read a defense or sack a quarterback, we we really failed.

21:08 Like when he leaves here, he really needs to be equipped as a man. All right, and and that's my you know, listen, I'm I love winning and all that, but we leave the nation in graduation. We leave the nation in retention in an era where they can leave anytime they want. And and every signing class I've ever had except for last year's freshman has won a championship.

21:28 And when we took this thing over, Clemson hadn't won a championship in 20 years. And and so now, you know, we get a lot of criticism when we don't win it. Uh, it's hard to do, but every signing class except last year's freshman's done it. But I think it's how we've done it is what makes it special. And we've done it by really equipping our young men.

21:46 Eight years in a row, we've had a hundred percent job placement. But what Paul Journey is and and the way we run this program is is truly what's best for the 30 year old version of this kid. And we try to teach them let's let's football's not a game of Longevity. You know, you you know, you got to play for like it's just that's just 98% don't play pro football.

22:06 You know, 1.8% play pro football or whatever, and less than half of that get to a fourth year. So, like if you're playing football 26-27, you're old. And and it's just not a game of longevity. So life is happening now. Let's learn how to transition from the game before we ever have to transition from the game.

22:24 So, so it's teaching these guys and equipping these guys and exposing them through microinternships, through mentorship, through all these things that we do to teach them. And what's amazing is when you see that transformation in a young person and they figure out that they're a great man with this great future, who just happens to be a good football player, as opposed to I'm just this great football player and I don't know what I'm gonna do after football, you know, 78% of pro players within two years are bankrupt.

22:54 Right.

22:55 Or divorced or whatever. And it's because they they've lost their identity. So what we really work hard on is trying to teach them that's that can't be your identity. You're a great man, all right? You just happen to be a good football player. So how do we use this game? Let's don't let the game use you.

23:13 And then we got this world we're living in right now, and I don't want my guys to be a stat. So man, we we work hard on financial literacy and tax education and and how to manage these things because because I want to I want to help them maximize this thing that they're dealing with. And and I can't save the world, but man, we we can do a great job right here with our guys.

23:30 So so what what I love to see though is when a kid figures out that he's got he's gonna be a man a lot longer than a football player, and he's and he knows that he's gonna be, it just frees them up to go play ball. Like it just frees them up, like they can just go play, you know, and and because this is a tough game.

23:49 And and and now all of a sudden they they see their identity more in who they are, not what they do. And I think that's very important. I'm not sure a lot of people work that way or teach that, but it's important to me to help these guys again use this game. And I think, again, that goes back to my experience and what I was shaped by because I went to Alabama when I was 18, I left when I was 31.

24:13 So I mean, I saw a lot of my teammates that the band roared for and the crowd, you know, was cheering on, and then I saw them at 28 and 29, I'm still there, and they were struggling in life, and and I just I just was shaped by that. And I always said if I was ever became a head coach, you know, I really wanted to focus on that.

24:32 And so, you know, the brand doesn't make the man, the man makes the brand. So let's focus on the man. And we spend a lot of time, a lot of time in this program, and I think that's one of the reasons we lead the nation of retention. We create a lot of value in the place. There's a lot of value in who you're doing life with, football life with.

24:52 And and I think that's one of the reasons a lot of these guys they stay.

24:56 No, absolutely. It's a great thing. I've been around your program, it's unbelievable. The facilities, what you've built. Now, I my history in high school, I got recruited, but Danny Ford recruited me to Clemson. And I went to 81, they won a national championship. I was in high school in 89, 90, and went down there, Chester McLaughlin, Chris Gardaki.

25:13 So, you know, it was it was good back then, great, but then you know it fell off or whatever. And you what you've built since then, though, unbelievable. It's a great run. I'd like to get your take too. I know I've seen some of the stuff and I agree with you. College football needs to be fixed, something needs to be done for these guys.

25:29 And you you touched on uh even I played nine years in the NFL. My point was this, I'd like to get your quick take on uh we mentioned it a lot of guys that go to the NFL end up broke, divorced, all the stuff like this. I've seen the studies, it's horrible. You know, so now we got college, the system is these young guys are coming out of high school, you know, handing them tons of money, millions sometimes.

25:50 The older guys can't handle the money, let alone now younger, these guys aren't gonna do it. So guys are going for the money. I always and you know, again, agents won't like it, people like it, but even the NFL, my theory was kind of, hey, put a lot of the money into retirement, into stuff that happens later in life, you know, annuities, whatever where guys can't touch it now, where they're not gonna need it at a young age or shouldn't be touching.

26:12 It should go get a job, use the education they have, and touch the money later. I that's part of the thing, I guess, where you know, we we are where we are, but I guess we gotta kind of reel it back in. I just want to see what your I kind of know you what your philosophy is, because what you built's amazing.

26:26 So you want to keep that going with some rules that everyone plays by. But what are your thoughts, Coach, on on today's football and and and where we're headed and what's where we're at?

26:35 I I mean it's really sad. Again, like 78% of of NFL players divorced, bankrupt, whatever. Uh, and these are mid-20s to 30 year olds. Like, we're not gonna get a different result with 17, 18, 19, 20, 20. We're gonna it's gonna be worse. And and it's gonna be, I think it might be four or five years down the road, but there's gonna be a lot of 26-year-olds with no degrees that spent the money or or you know, uh owe a bunch of taxes, whatever.

26:59 And so, and maybe it's that voice of this player who creates some order. But I mean, it you know, all I can focus on is our kids here, our system here, our process here. I mean, if I you know, because I don't have any control over anything else, and our kids are doing great. Now, we have some that that don't listen, but for the most part, our kids are doing great, and and we we've created a great system here to teach them and equip them on how to save, on, on their taxes, and all the stuff that you have to deal with.

27:29 But I just think that, you know, the adults know better and should do better. I mean, it but it's just we've created this system where there's just too much for some of these kids. Some are fine, but there's too much too much soon for some of these kids. And and they're gonna pay the price for it. Uh, and it's just, you know, it's sad to watch.

27:49 Uh, and I I've seen it, you know, there's there's a lot. And there's a reason why we have rules and laws in society and things like that. You know, I always say there's a reason why insurance for a 25-year-old is a lot cheaper than a 17-year-old because of data. Because these insurance companies that make billions of dollars, they, they, they understand data.

28:08 So, you know, and there's so much on these kids. The expectations, the social media, the outside pressures, family, agents, you know, girls. I mean, there's a there's a lot of things coming at these kids. Oh, and by the way, you got to perform. And then there's transition. So, you know, I I have I'm happy that they that they uh are or they make money, but we have to, we can't, we have to educate these guys.

28:32 And I think that, and it's up to every coach is different, every play, you know, all I can do is is manage our our situation here. But if I could wave a wand, like if I could just go poof, you know, the magic dragon or whatever, like I mean, I I think if if and I've said this a couple of times, like if not everybody qualifies to make a hundred grand, you know, some some some are making 50, some are making 30.

28:55 But I and I would say you get that, whatever. But and they they make like 30 grand just on their scholarship, no taxes. But I would say once you get past 100 grand, like you still, like you still can have all of that. But I wish we had a system where the money could go into an annuity, a compound, you know, uh annuity that they can't touch until they either graduate or they turn 25.

29:19 You know, kind of like if you set an estate up, right? Like you if if you have an estate, you wouldn't leave all this money to to your kids. You know, you might leave them this at 15, this at 18, this at 25, you know, whatever, you know, when they're equipped to to handle those things. And I think we could do it, we could have a better system to where they could have everything that they got, don't take anything away.

29:41 But I think I think we could protect them from themselves, what they don't know, protect them from outside pressures. And uh, you know, who can't live good on 100 grand, right? Like you're a college kid, give me a break. And so, I mean, if I could wave a wand, like everything over a hundred grand, I would put in a it has to go into this, and you know, you got to have all kinds of congressional help.

30:00 But these are kids, and we know. But, you know, you put it in a compound interest deal, and that money's making money for them. And now they're incentivized to graduate, number one, or if they don't want to graduate, well, they can get it at 25. So they're making a hundred grand a year, but at twenty-five, if they if they're getting if they're making two million, well, that other 1.9 is going into you know this annuity and it's making money, and then at 25, you know what?

30:27 They're gonna come hug your neck. And and and they haven't blown a lot of money at 18 and 19 and 20 when they don't really know better. Uh, and they honestly they haven't felt that either, because that's the other thing. A lot of these kids are gonna make more money at 20 than they than they might ever make.

30:43 Right.

30:43 And so there's some mental health aspects. I mean, there's a lot of things that is going on. Um, and I and again, uh for from my perspective and my lens here at Clemson, uh, our guys are doing great. And and I think it's because we were built for this. Like, you know, I've been here a long time. We've been doing Paul Journey for a long time.

31:01 We've been doing financial literacy, tax edge, all these things for a long time. And now we're getting real-world application for it. But we're still leading nation in graduation. We value, we don't, the number one thing in this program is to graduate. And we're number one in America. That's not something we just talk about.

31:16 And so the kids that come here, you know, it's not that they don't, and you lead the nation in retention, so they're not staying for free. So it's not like they don't make money. You know, they they can go wherever they want, anytime. But we've created this value in the people and the value in the place.

31:31 And uh the kids that come here, we're like a magnet to the kids that really align with who we are. And it's and there's a financial aspect of it, it's got to make sense. But that's just that's not that's not the the number one thing. That's just a part of the process. You know, if it's the number one thing, we're probably not gonna get them.

31:47 And I'm okay with that because I really truly, you know, you know, want want to help them as people. And uh so, you know, it's it's a it's a fascinating time because you know, rules change every week, it seems like we kind of make it up as we go. But man, our kids are doing great here at Clemson, and it's it's a great environment, and it's and it's we have unbelievable people here and resources, and these guys are thriving.

32:11 But but what I care more about is you know what their life looks like at 30, you know, not right now. And and we try to do everything we can to help them because there's a lot coming at these kids right now. So it's a good opportunity to teach them. So that way when they do, some of these guys that do get a chance to go to the pros, well, hey, they're gonna be even better prepared because of their experience here.

32:32 To coach, totally agree with you on all that. With the you're building it right, you've you've built it right over the years, and it you can see it with the program and the guys, like you talked about, success now, teaching these guys, educating them. So for when they if they do make it great, but even the guys with as the systems change and handling money right now and how to do that.

32:50 That's that's that's that's the way to do it. And hopefully more we'll see that, more we'll do that. But I don't know I'm I'm kind of nervous with how how the college football world is, and we'll see where we end up. But you've done a great job with that. I guess, coach, looking at it too, let's just kind of transition.

33:04 What's what's some of the best advice you ever got? Maybe from one of your old coaches, your mom, your dad, somebody growing up. I always ask, guys, it's not like some some nuggets for people out there. Some of the best advice.

33:16 Well man, I've had a lot of advice, a lot of great mentors. Obviously, Coach Stallins, Coach McCorby, Mac Brown, uh Bobby Bowden, Tommy Bowden, I've had a lot of great mentors in my life. I would say, and Coach Curry, Bill Curry, you know. I I I would start with him. I I had this job about three weeks, and um, in fact, I got my I keep this uh right by my phone over here.

33:40 It's like a little note card. I this was 121908. Got hired uh 12208, December, I believe. And uh I met my first kind of head coach thing. I gotta go speak at the Shrine Bowl or whatever, and all the head coaches are there speaking. And I walk in and there's Bill Curry. Bill Curry was my my coach as a freshman at Alabama, you know, and I was like, you know, I'm like, I'm not and then he left, you know.

34:04 He was only there in my freshman year. I'm like, I don't even know if he's gonna remember me. You know, that was 19, you know, 88, 89, and I'm I'm this is this is 2008. And so he had been, he was the new head coach at Georgia State, kind of started the program. And I remember walking to this lunch, and all these head coaches are in there, and I had my little note cards and my jacket, you know.

34:24 I got my little everybody's gotta get up and speak for five minutes or whatever. And sure enough, they got me sitting next to Bill Curry, and I'm like, Well, moment of truth, you know, and I and I sit down and he's like, Dabble, man, I'm so proud of you. And I'm like, Okay, who knows who I am? Remember me.

34:39 And he's like, I've pulled so hard for you to get this job because I was an interim and then I got the job. And so, and he goes, Look, he said, You didn't call me for advice. He goes, but I'm gonna tell you three things, and then I'm gonna shut up and me and you go enjoy this banquet. And I'm like, Well, yeah, you know, I'm like pulling out my note.

34:57 I said, I had one empty note card, you know, I had one just in case I needed to make some notes on something, you know, you know, you know, and so I put I'm like, well, I mean, you're only gonna tell me three things. Hey, write this down. I wrote Bill Curry 121908. And the first thing, that's probably the greatest advice I've ever had, is he said, now you listen to me.

35:17 And I went, okay, number one. He goes, be dabbo. He said, he said, he said, listen, that's what got you here. And that's the only thing that's gonna keep you here. He said, I see so many people they get in these roles and these jobs, and now all of a sudden they try to be something that they're not. He said, just be dabo.

35:40 He said, just they hired Dabo to be dabo. He said, just be who you are and stay true to who you are. So I went, okay, be dabbo. And then the second thing he he he told me, he said, and I want you to hear me on this. This is probably the most important. He said, and this is where my biggest regrets are.

35:57 He said, No job is worth sacrificing your family. He said, and I want you to hear me on that. He's you know, been the head coach at Georgia Tech, head coach at Alabama, head coach of Kentucky, head coach of Georgia State now. He said, you know, and he said he said, especially when I was at Alabama, I thought I had to do every booster event, every this, every that.

36:14 He said, I missed so many games of Bill Jr.'s and this and that, you know. And he said, in the end, that's who's there with you. And he said, you know, you have to find balance. And he goes, Do not sacrifice your family for this job. And that was something that really resonated with me. And then, and then the third thing he said, he goes, and he was right on this too.

36:36 He's like, Look, you've never made any money. He's right on that, you know. I mean, I got hired in Alabama, made 38 grand, and the most I ever made was 80 grand. Like you didn't you didn't get into coaching to make money. It's not like it is today. You got a lot of people choosing coaching now because it's can be a lucrative career.

36:52 That wasn't the case when I got into coaching. It was just what I was called to do. My wife was a teacher, and you know, I just, hey, maybe one day you'd be a head coach and make a little bit of money. But he's like, he said, listen, you're you're for the first time in your life, you're making some money.

37:07 And he said, I I I think you might have been reading the reading the press clippings too, because I was a I was a D plus hire, wasn't a real popular hire. And and he said, Now I just he said it's a very volatile job. And so you're making a little bit of money, just make sure you got a good money manager and somebody that can kind of help you have a good plan, basically, because he didn't say this, but you know, and he might have said, you might not be here three years, you know.

37:32 So I wrote that down. Those are three things that that have always stuck with me that I've tried to live by with Coach Curry. And then man, I I don't have enough time to tell you the things that Coach Stallins has told me over the years. I mean, it's so many things, but you know, one of the things too that I I will say about Coach Stallins, I mean, he he's a when I call him, like, I mean, it's you know, he's not always gonna tell you what you want to hear.

37:56 And uh, you know, I called him one time, I was struggling with a decision because you know, when you, you know, we we sometimes you have to make changes and things like that, and that's not easy whether you're in the business world or our world. The problem with our world is it's public, right? And there's just so much that comes with who you hire or having to make a change and all that type of stuff.

38:14 And uh man, I was just struggling because I I I you know I knew it's what I really probably needed to do, but I really didn't want to, because I really cared about this person and this and that. And I called Coach, and I mean he just kind of I'm kind of giving him my, you know, he just cut me off and he said, Elbo, I need you to run your antenna up.

38:35 You know, I'm like, Yes, sir, coach. And he said, if you know what you need to do and you don't do it, then somebody else ought to have your job. And I mean, it was just like, you know, just it's like a dagger through the heart, but he's right. He was right. And I think, you know, leadership is not easy, but at the end of the day, you know, you and some and when you're doing what's right, it's not always in fact, rarely is it the easy thing.

39:03 And uh, you know, I've I've just I've just held on to that, and man, I I've learned so many things. I I've got I've got like I've got all this, you know, uh stuff written down for the past 18 years, like like things I've learned as a head coach, and I've just write these these random nuggets down that I'm like, you know what, that's going on my list.

39:21 And I just write these things down. And so I've just man, I've had so much great advice. Mac Brown was a great asset to me when I first became head coach because I called all these big time famous coaches. You know, I get the job, you know, I don't know anybody, and I call, I call uh you know, all these coaches.

39:40 Bobby Bowden was great to me, but I call all these, but he was at Florida State. I'm I'm the coach at Clemson. I call all these coaches, I'm like, hey, could I come visit with you in February? I want to just ring my staff. I got I got a lot of a lot of questions, you know, like as a head coach. You know, I'm getting in there, going in my first offseason, and everybody told me no.

39:56 Everybody I call said no. No, I just don't think we're gonna do that, you know. And I'm like, you know, but but this guy named Mac Brown, who didn't know me from Adam. Mac Brown, he's like, he's like, heck yeah, man, I'll tell you what, I was so happy to see you get that job. You know, come on out here and bring your whole staff.

40:13 So I mean, we go out to Austin, Texas for like three days and took us to dinner, and we met with their staff and this and that. And I was hoping I might get an hour of Mac Brown. Man, he spent hours with me. And I it was like cliff notes of of coaching, and and it was fascinating because there was a lot of things that I was like, okay, it was good confirmation of okay, I'm not crazy here.

40:33 But then there were some other things he was like, I couldn't even get it out of my mouth, and he'd be like, Yeah, let me tell you, you know, because you know, he'd been there, done that, right? And and uh and it was simple stuff like how do you handle your mail as a head coach? You know, like that's stuff you don't think about.

40:49 Like, like I remember when I first got this job, the assistant, she's like, How would you like to handle your mail, coach? And I'm like, What do you mean by mail? Just bring me my mail. I'll bring my mail, like I've always handled my mail, I've always done everything on my own. Well, I think she just smiled.

41:03 Well, all of a sudden she walks in and she's got this massive thing, and it's like, and I remember going home that first night, and I'm like, I'm sitting in my den. I'm just oh I'm like, well, I'm gonna spend my whole career being a mailman. I'm just gonna be reading letters and writing notes back, and I mean I I I can't even live with Coach Football.

41:16 I remember coming back in, I said, Beth, how did Coach Baldon handle his mail? She goes, Yeah, I thought you'd come back around, you know. And so talking to Coach Coach uh Brown about stuff like that and recruiting, and but a big thing with him was managing time, you know, and and managing time and and managing your staff and and you know, learning how to say no.

41:39 I mean, it was just so many things, you know, from my my two or three days out in Austin, Texas that I came away from. And Mac, and then to this day, he's been a great friend of mine. So I I've I've learned a lot over the years from so many people. I've learned a lot from my players, I learned a lot from my kids.

41:54 I mean, I I learned a lot from books and people all out in the business world. I mean, I'm constantly learning.

42:00 That's great. No, Mac Brown. I get to know him years ago too. I was an all-American team, he was there too. Great man. I stayed in touch with for years and he's personal, takes the time, talks to you. So great guy. Last question, Coach. So you got three kids, you got a wife, you got maybe grandkids down the road, you got former players working for you around you.

42:18 What do you hope 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, they're all talking, hey, Davo Sweeney. What what do you hope they say?

42:25 Man, I just hope they say that guy played such a huge role in my life and the man I am today. He just had such a positive impact on my life. That's what I hope they say. He helped me be a better man. He loved me when I needed to be loved. He disciplined me when I needed that. I mean, he really cared about me.

42:42 That's what I hope. I hope that when I see them, they come hug my neck and not go the other way. And uh, you know, you're never going bat a thousand because this is not an easy job, but I hope that 9% of my players will will look back on their time. And that's one of the things I challenge our coaches all the time with like it's such a huge responsibility.

43:01 You know, we have so many hearts and souls in front of us. And will you be the best coach that they've ever had? And like when that guy sees you at 30 and he thinks differently, and you know, life has happened, and he looks back on the people that were in his life at 18, 19, 20, did you really make a difference for him?

43:17 Or did you just coach ball? Did you just teach him how to be a better wide out and good release technique? Or did you really impact his life? All right, that he's still talking about that when he's 35 and 40. Like that's what I and I've already experienced that. I have I have former players that are in, you know, in their 40s.

43:36 Uh, and and that's uh, I mean, I got hired, I started coaching at 23. So I've I've got coach players to this day that I coached at Alabama that that share share that type of stuff with me. I've got 28 former players on my staff. We've got a big staff of 85 or so, and 28 of them are former players. And so I just love that.

43:57 But that that's the biggest thing. I just hope that they that they will um you know talk about. I'm sure they'll have a lot of stories and they'll have a lot of a lot of laughter at my expense, and that's fine. But I think when it's all said and done, I hope that they'll talk about, you know, I was I was uh authentic.

44:14 Uh I told them the truth, even when they didn't want to hear it, and uh, I was tough on them when they needed that, but I truly positively impacted their life for the better.

44:23 Absolutely, coach. You've done it. Amazing run, amazing wins, 24 seasons, what you're a winner, national champions, all that stuff. But I I love what you say about your guys, what you're doing for them to educate them for real life, right? For whatever it be, during football, after football, the rest of their life.

44:39 You're setting guys up for success, and that's important. And you're a man of faith, which is great too. So best of luck this season, and thank you. Thanks for coming on. We'll have you on again sometime. And you know, I'm rooting for you, and I think big things ahead in the f this year for Clemson. So appreciate it.

44:52 I appreciate it. Thank you, Jim. I appreciate you, man. You too.

44:56 Take care. See ya.

44:56 See you, brother.