Jim Harbaugh: Building Champions, Preparing to Win and Leading with Conviction

0:00 Welcome to On the Line with Jim Pine. I'm Jim Pine. This episode is brought to you by PLS Aviation. Private Aviation perfectly executed. Now let's get on the line. Today on the line, we have a legendary coach from a legendary family, three generations of coaching. Really a great player, too. 15 years in the NFL as a player.

0:19 One of the few guys that can go from playing to coaching, transfer that into greatness and won't been to Super Bowls, won a national championship. The great Jim Harbaugh coach. Welcome on the show.

0:29 Thank you for having me, Jim. Appreciate it.

0:31 Yeah, no, good. I don't know if you remember, but years ago, 1992, I had a chance to met you. I was on spring break with some friends. You were with the Bears, you came in, I think Neil Anderson and some other guys, and you guys, I was just the small guy in college playing in Virginia Tech, but I remember you were a nice guy.

0:46 When I shook your hand, met you. It was good to meet you then. I said good guy. Then I played with played for your brother in Philadelphia. You know, I so know the family well, great people. And you know, it was just it was great to meet you then. So great to have you on the show.

0:58 And uh and uh ton of uh sons and and and nephews that uh have been tremendous football football players. I mean, uh the Pine family is uh there's there's no question about it. Great football lineage there.

1:13 No, thank you, appreciate it. Yeah, likewise you I looked it up. Your son is a J. He's three generations of coaching. He won a couple Super Bowls and national championship. He's he's on the fast track, man. I like his his path, right? You've got to be proud of him, right?

1:26 I'm so proud of him. Jay Harbaugh, my son, he's the special teams coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks, as you mentioned. He's Super Bowl champions this past year. He also was uh Super Bowl champion when he coached at the Baltimore Ravens in uh the 2012 season. We won a national championship together and at Michigan.

1:46 He is a phenomenal coach, great person, couldn't couldn't great dad, you know, just everything. Uh so very proud of him.

1:55 Yeah, no, no question. I mean, the family stuff I've done, the history. Talk to your brother. Your dad's 87. You coached for you. Tell me about coaching for your dad in the off seasons. I think you helped recruit him at Western Kentucky. He won a national championship in 02. Tell me what that was like, because I know the challenges and and you know, playing pro football.

2:12 It's it's a it's a job, it's a full-time year-round thing. But you what in the off-season kind of went and helped your dad a little bit, or what you do?

2:18 Oh, that's exactly right. Yeah, there was uh, you know, it's just what you do for you know, with for family, for family, with family. Uh, you know, there's just there's nothing better. But uh, yeah, there was a point at Western Kentucky where they were they had uh there was a vote to drop the program and about 1990, somewhere right in there, and uh and I was playing for the Bears at the time, 93, I think it was ninety more like ninety-three.

2:45 And uh they had a hiring freeze, they couldn't hire any coaches, uh any more coaches, and they had they had four coaches, so hey dad, like uh I got an idea. Why don't you why don't you let me uh hire me as a coach and I can I can go out and and recruit and and help in uh help in the spring. Uh and my brother who was coaching in Indiana at the time, he was he was chipping in too and we were were kind of players that maybe they weren't uh going after uh or weren't gonna offer.

3:13 You know, he was he was providing those lists and and I and it was uh just uh you know, there's a passion to help my dad and uh and and we had a lot of fun doing it. And uh did did that for about you know six years in the offseason at Western Kentucky and and then when I got a head coaching job at the University of San Diego, said Dad, I need you and uh and he dropped everything he was doing at at Marquette University as an associate athletic director and came out to San Diego, coached our running backs for uh the entire 2004 season.

3:45 And I what what he brought to our team, to our players, to our staff, uh what he taught me, incredible is all I can say. And and the in the daily driving to work together, driving home together, talking every single day about about the team and coaching and and uh you know everything personal and professional.

4:05 Uh I I know why father and son, you know, uh businesses uh are so so productive and and and so so enjoyable. You know, really the one of the times of my life, truly.

4:19 Sure, sure. No, and uh enthusiasm I'm known to mankind, right? I mean I'm gonna be able to do it.

4:23 I love mankind, Jim. It's it's otherworldly, it's not of this world.

4:28 That's right. I love it. No, and I I love the story too. At the time I guess you guys came out, there was a the car wasn't available, your dad said, get the basketballs, a hundred on the right, a hundred on the left. Who's bet who's better than us, right?

4:39 That was Who's got it better than us? Who's got it better than us?

4:43 I love it.

4:44 Nobody, Dad, nobody. And uh you know, truly, truly there wasn't, you know. Uh you know, the to be on uh to be on that team, which was our family, you know, that uh that family team, uh yeah, I guess couldn't you couldn't have a better. And that's uh it's a way of looking at life, no question about it, you know, with a with a positive attitude.

5:08 But there's there's a there's another layer there that uh you know what whatever your circumstances are, there's it's like ankle weight sometimes, you know? Turning a negative into a positive. We know it's we uh we got that opportunity to uh do that, it's gonna make us better. Whatever the circumstance it is at the current situation, uh you know, there's a there's a chance to really to make this to make it better.

5:35 Who could have it better than us? Nobody. And then there's another layer of you know, there is one person that could have us better. There is somebody. There are people that could have it better than us. Well, who who's that? Future us if if we you know keep doing right and keep staying on the trajectory that we're on and staying together, you know.

5:56 Those those uh those lessons all all come from Jack Harbaugh.

6:00 Yeah, no, it's great to have I was close to my dad. My dad passed a blessing to you. I still have your dad at 87 and uh all coach with you in Michigan too, all that stuff. I mean, and John, your brother has said, you know, I I I gotta understand. I had my dad for a while for years. I used to call my dad on the phone and he said, go ahead.

6:16 He he just he'd go ahead with whatever you got going. He knew he could dissect everything great. I asked your brother, I gotta ask you the same thing. To have your dad there as a resource, you got your brother too, your sister married a coach too. So like you and John said, that's what you guys do. You guys get on the phone and kind of for you for a resource, hey, should I hire this coach?

6:36 Should I fire this guy? Pick this player, not pick this guy. I mean, what does that mean to you in that process? It's the family's amazing, but to have those resources, a lot of people don't have that.

6:46 Yeah, it uh it's fill in the blank, you know, it's it's it's everything, it's it's anything and everything personally, professionally, and it's it's with uh you know your brother, your dad, you know, your brother-in-law, your sister, your mom, that they're they're all people that you know 100%, you know, they they don't just have your back, you know, they have your back, your front, and sides.

7:18 Both sides. That's right. It who could have it better, one might say, Jim. Who could have it better?

7:25 Love it.

7:26 I feel like nobody.

7:27 Nobody. That's right. That's right. And I watched your press conference the other night. You guys won a game big preseason and all that stuff. And I watched Mike Dop too walking around with your players. And you know, I haven't played and I coached for a few years. You know, it I can tell you're a player's coach because you've been you've coached, you played before now you coach, is you know, you're calling out guys' names by name in press conferences, you're giving guys credit, you're giving that stuff.

7:52 That that doesn't happen. You know, that's rare. You've been around coaching a bunch, but you played too. Then watching you mic'd up walking around the practice, the guys are coming up to you, they can relate, you can relate to them. That's a huge asset. And the biggest thing I see you know in business too is that the guys respect you.

8:08 They like you, they'll play for you, they respect what you did and what you do. And that's different. I I've been around a lot of coaches who didn't play really high levels, and that that's a different path. But an asset you have is that you played. And I do you notice that? Is that something you play into because you know what it's like to be a player?

8:26 Yeah, I maybe sometimes for sure. I I think the thing I notice the most is that uh yeah, I love football, and and uh I love people that love football. And people that love football, they seem to like me back, and uh and then we roll. It's uh and I love having fun, you know. I think uh fun in in uh in playing football and being around football, working on football, uh practicing football in the training environment.

8:54 And it's just it's just always been that way uh for me. And the great respect I have for everybody that's played, I know like from my earliest memories it was it was uh I wouldn't go out and play sports, and the fun that I got was was uh pretending to be like a pro player, tri pretending to be uh, you know, Rick Leach in football, or Bert Jones, or Dan Fouts.

9:22 And then when it came to hockey season, I you know, I pretended to be Gordy Howe or Bobby Orr. Basketball, you know, it was like George Gervin, Larry Bird, you know, tried Magic Johnson type of uh passes and shots and baseball. It was Mark DeBird Fidrich, you know, it was him for him for a couple seasons, you know, both in practice and games.

9:46 One a whole half season, I was Al Harbaski, you know. I think I even taped my eye open uh for one game and hit the mitt. But that that that was how I had fun, uh pretending to be in Super Bowls or Thanksgiving Day games, NFL, you know, uh spiring for that. But that's and it it's so important to me that uh people gotta have fun playing sports.

10:12 I mean there's a there's a level of energy, there's a level of uh that you can't reach, you can't tap into unless you're having having fun with with what you do. And I and uh and people I respect the most are the ones that uh you know, they love it. It's they it's not that they have to have to train or practice or uh, you know, play football which is really hard to do.

10:38 Uh it can be very unfair, uh unforgiving type of uh sport, but they they feel like they get to, you know, and there's a uh there's an unbelievable sense of joy that uh comes with that. So that's that's what I that's what I relate to. And um and it's also cool too, once once I became a pro player, like yeah, there's probably still pretending to be Joe Montana for and then when it clicks in, like, okay, this is this is my game.

11:08 I get to actually pretend to be me uh and go out there every day in the and the practice, I get to be, you know, myself. That was a level of fun that was just like, whoa, like nobody should be able to have have this much fun. So uh yeah, do I try try to instill that and uh try to try to yeah, I do, because it's just it's it's infectious.

11:31 And the guys I gravitate to the most are uh are the ones that just see it the same way and you you know it you know it when uh you know you you after one practice or you know one training training session where you know you you watch them go in and compete and you know, yeah, gosh, you did you did uh you did five s you know reps at uh at 115.

11:56 I you know, I want to do five five dumbbell reps at at 115. Kind of picture same as when you were back in you know, 13, 14 year olds when you first started lifting weights and uh you know Brett Bokirk had a had a had a bench press in his garage and and some dumbbells and uh man let's let's go over and uh and and train in the garage.

12:18 I mean it's it's still that uh you know, still that feeling that that I have. It's just uh competing and uh just really loving what you're doing and having a tremendous gratitude for it. It's just it's just always it's always been there for me for football. I love it.

12:32 Sure, yeah, I know the passion, you can see it. You're in it, the energy, the enthusiasm, like your dad said. I mean, your dad, besides everything, what uh what did you learn from your dad that you still do today, like in your daily job? You're there at the office, you're coaching, you're going out to practice.

12:47 What's something you're doing on a daily that you say, hey, dad did this, I'm doing this. Dad got he taught me this, I'm doing this.

12:54 I mean, the the the to the top things, you know, the top things uh that uh you know just have a have a passion and love for what you do, work hard, and and then you know, you you have your two great loves. You have your your your your family at home and your family at work, and those are your two great loves, and you're just doing anything and everything you can to uh to help those two families be the best version of themselves.

13:27 And it's uh it's that's what I those those three things, you know, try to try to try to emulate and do every single day.

13:37 Great story your brother told me was you guys shared a room for 17 years. That's what he said. That that's close, right? I had a brother too who's 13 months older than me, so we were together all the time, shared the room. I know that bond. So you guys shared a room 17 years. He he said, he said, he was a spender, you were a saver.

13:53 He'd be spending money on dilly bars or whatever, is what he said, right? He said, but he you would know about what right when he was out of money, you had to pay me 50 bucks, you'd lay it all across the bed to let him know how much money you had and all that stuff. Is that is that story true, by the way?

14:10 Yeah, yeah, there's a whole there's uh you know, there's a ton. I mean, it's uh that is true, that's a true story. I like the you know my grandpa Josepiti, he was uh he he came over from Italy when he was four years old on a boat, and uh he he uh went through sixth grade and then had to get a full-time job.

14:34 I mean he had to become a uh work in a filling station, become a mechanic. One of the best in uh in eastern Ohio, in Cleveland, Ohio. And then uh worked his way up, had his own filling station, and then uh burned down, and he uh there was no insurance, he had to go back to work, and then he then he ended up buying a nursery in uh in Cleveland, Sapiti nursery.

14:59 The work ethic that was poured into us uh from Joe Sapede, Bill Harbaugh, who uh who worked on the railroad, Jack Harbaugh, Jackie Harbaugh, all my aunts, all my uncles, uh to see them at all times doing anything and everything for their family. And the the work ethic that they were gonna do. They were gonna do the best they could with what they had, and it was all about the family.

15:28 And that's that's just like ingrained. And uh so yeah, inspired, ingrained, and you know, that's that's how you do it. Uh so that and and and you love, and uh you know, just the the great the great love that you have for for not only your family, but all all your so whom you're associated with, you know, your your uh your team, your friends, that uh all those virtues, you know, been uh instilled in by Joe and Jesse Sapiti, Bill and Marie Harbaugh, through Jack and Jackie Harbaugh to to uh you know to us.

16:05 It's uh you know, that's you know been incredible.

16:08 Sure, sure. And he he told we talked about transition, right? One of the things you you know a lot of former players, you know, guys struggle with transitioning from playing to what's next. Like a lot of guys stay in. John told a funny story. He said, Well, Jim and I talk about this. We're afraid of transition.

16:22 You know, we stay, we stay in football, we don't want to transition. And he told a story, you you're gonna play until they tell you you can't play anymore, then play two more years, and then you're gonna get into coaching, and then you guys, but you know, transition. You you know some former guys in business, leadership, different stuff.

16:37 How did what advice do you give people to transition from, I guess, you know, take a guy from playing to what's next? I did I tell guys, hey, get busy, do something, throw yourself into something, find something you like to do or don't like to do, and but find something you like and go do it. What what advice do you have, Coach?

16:54 Yeah, it's exactly this the same advice that you have, and it's uh, you know, well, you know, you just get up each day and and get your feet moving and keep them moving. That's that's you know, that's from that's from Joe Sapiti. Get the feet moving and keep them moving. But uh, you know, when it comes for to something you know professional, I just you said it.

17:13 I mean, something that uh that you have a love and passion for, because you've got to be able to work hard. If uh if you don't have and if you don't have a love and passion for what you're doing, you're gonna get outwork. Uh you know, there's there's no two ways around that. So not about uh not about I mean it could be about other things, but I mean number one, do what you love and have a passion for.

17:38 Sure. And then adversity. We all face adversity. If you face adversity in your life in the path, you're gonna face adversity. If you're given some advice, how do you fit what when adversity is in your face, how do you approach it? What do you do? What do you do with adversity?

17:53 Yeah, I I really uh it's it's like what I do with success, you know. Uh I uh you know, I get to work, go find some work to do, and there's a uh there's a thing there's a thing that happens that I that I experience every time, like, okay, well let's get back to work. Let's let me find something to do, to uh help be a force for good here, help help find the find the solution.

18:23 But the main thing that happens is it whatever that adversity is or that problem is, I I find that it clears my mind and and also cleanses my soul. And while I'm doing said work, about half the time, because the mind's clear and the and the soul's been cleansed, I get the answer. It comes to me while I'm while I'm doing here's the here's the next thing that uh not half the time it doesn't, but uh the uh and then the other benefit is you know when uh you know you you're trying to improve, you're trying to fix something, solve something, and you're working, it's uh you're either saving money or you're uh or you're or you're making money and you're finding the you're finding the the solution.

19:13 So uh that's that's really my my only uh boy you gotta you and same for if you're having success. Boy, things are things are going. We won. We we're this, we're that. Like, okay, let me let me get back to work, you know, and make darn sure this happens happens again this week, you know. We didn't win, we lost, we got adversity.

19:34 Well, let's get back to work and make darn sure that doesn't happen again.

19:38 Sure, sure. And you've won everywhere you've been, you know, San Diego, Stanford, the 49ers, Michigan. You know, so you you've built great teams, culture, it's about the people, right? I mean, I saw something recently in the strength coach you took from Michigan. You you're a big believer in what he does.

19:54 And I my years in football, it's you know, that that room's the most important because you spend the most time in that room, and the most that's where you get better and you do your work, right? So you gotta have the right guy in that room. But what's your secret sauce to build it? Obviously, you're a key guy and your energy permeates the building and the and the organization.

20:12 But what's the it what's the secret? Someone's building, someone's building a business, a building, any organization, culture and all that stuff. What's the keys? How have you done it so well for so long?

20:21 I I I really think it's a it's a thousand things, uh, little things. People think of the sometimes of the minutiae, but they uh those thousand things la add up to make all the difference. And and there's no question you said it. Uh it's it's the people. And and there are no there are no little people.

20:41 There are no like uh yeah, sure, there is nobody more important than than than Ben Herbert. But yeah, I I I could say that about uh you know all the there's nobody more important than uh you know any of uh anybody that's on a when you're on a team. And uh it's that uh that uh yeah, I just don't understand any way of of uh of looking at it that like whoever it is.

21:12 I mean that person, I mean that's uh that person's got the got the chance to be the guardian of victory, the the most important person. And and when you see what you want to see is just everybody, everybody pitching in and doing anything and everything they can, you know, to help our our team be successful.

21:32 Sure. 2002, I believe, is your first coaching job. You go to the Raiders, right? Quarterback coach, transition from playing to coaching. I I did it, and I remember getting out I worked with John Gruden and the Buccaneers for a couple years, and you know, they kind of told me, hey, you're a former player.

21:47 You know, but and then I was the only former player on the staff. They said, Hey, the players are gonna gravitate towards you. We don't want that. That's what they told me. I was like, okay. So like they they kind of wanted it that way. But how was your transition? And then maybe you were around. Al Davis, right?

22:00 I I remember Al coming out the sweatsuit, the glasses, the hair, and you know, I worked for Gruden and Garrick Emock came over. These guys that they talk like him and tell the stories. The Ray-Away and Al Davis. So you got any great stories about Al? I mean, he was he was a legend in the NFL.

22:15 I've so many, so many incredible things to to say about uh Mr. Davis, uh, you know, that my whole experience of going from a player, you know, to a to a coach, the experience that that Bill Callahan gave me as an assistant coach, uh Mark Tressman gave me as as an assistant coach. And uh yeah, it wasn't uh you know, it wasn't to to be you know a player or a sounding board.

22:46 I mean, they wanted me to work and uh and learn coaching. In the two years that I was there, I equate it probably to double that, four years, four work years of uh of of coaching knowledge and and uh going from not being able to really turn on a computer to uh you know being able to to break down the film, to be able to uh to uh you know create XL files, to be able to chart plays.

23:13 I mean, the the the you know drawing the uh you know the plays, the formations, the defense, the blitzes, making making the cut-up tapes. I mean, it was I mean going from not knowing how to turn on a computer to gosh being being uh pretty good at it. And you know, they they they motivated, they they they motivated me.

23:34 Maybe there was yeah, there was surprising kind of like just brilliant the way they did it, you know, uh kind of the way my dad did it, you know, when uh when I was a kid, like you're probably not gonna be able to do this. You you're probably not gonna, you know, it's it's it's uh you know, former a player, you know, it's it's it's a bunch of money, you don't want to do this.

23:55 You know, you don't want to do this.

23:56 It's like going from it's like being the rock star. Being a player is like being the rock star to being a now, you're gonna be a roadie. You know, you you really probably not gonna be able to handle this, you know. Like my dad used to say, uh, there's no way you can dunk a basketball. Dad, I'm like, I can touch the rim, yeah, but you're there's no, don't even, don't even just work on your jumps.

24:18 And yet, because of that, I mean you're you're doing uh, you know, you're a hundred hundred to a thousand to ten thousand tries at uh dunking. You can't even palm the ball. There's no way you can do it till you I'll show him. You know, that's that was that uh that was that experience for me. And uh and there's nothing but gratitude and and thankfulness uh you know to uh to to Bill Callahan to Mark Tressman and and uh and to Mr.

24:44 Davis, you know, who uh he uh he he he thought I could, you know, he thought I could. And uh, you know, so he you know that belief, uh, you know, and that that motivation, you know, really um is what what uh what started it all for me. Doing something that I wanted to do, I chose to do and uh and love to do.

25:07 But uh yeah, that's like any of us. I mean we could we could never do any of this stuff alone or by ourselves. You know. Including including being born. So the uh yeah, that's that's and that's just another reason why I'm so so I love football. You know, it's because it's you know, it's it takes a team to to be good.

25:29 Yeah, no, and I I remember that O2 season, I I got hired, I finished playing for your brother in Philly and all that stuff. Then I go to Gruden hired me. I was a grunt, just like you said, and I was grinding doing the breakdown stuff, and they were doing the same thing to me. Oh, you don't want to do this, this isn't for you, and all that stuff.

25:43 But I I love football, so I was around it. And it's it's funny, like you know, they did the Oakland trade, Gruden down to Tampa and all that. And and if ironically, you guys Gannon's the MVP had a great year and stuff, and you guys number one on offense. That Super Bowl I remember vividly because I could hire right after it.

26:00 I was in Tampa, and I remember they they they handed out the rings and all that stuff right in Tampa one. But the irony of the thing was like Gruden ran, well, who's a he's a maniac coach, offensive coach. He ran the scout team that week for the Super Bowl preparing because he I think Bill Callahan and those guys had the same system.

26:17 He was running the same plays, the signals, and I know that game that I mean I I wonder, did it feel like the Bucks had the test answers because it was they they they kind of had all the signals and calls? I think there was a lot of turnovers in that game. It was just an interesting fact. I don't know if you saw it that way or not.

26:35 I I saw us I saw uh yeah our our our team had an incredible year. I mean gave it everything that uh we could. We didn't we didn't win that one. It it uh it's it it yeah, it left a it left a bruise. That was you know that uh that was I remembered as competition at the at the at the highest, you know, it doesn't sure doesn't get any any higher and and it motivates you.

27:02 It motivates you to you know to come back and just want that that that feeling, that goal of being of being world champions. Um but it's and it's hard. And it's hard. I I tell people, you know, yeah, it's uh it's uh sometimes it's unforgiving, it's unfair, really hard. Wish it was easy, but it's not.

27:24 And and that's the thing I think that makes it that makes it most most memorable. You know, you just get in there, you give it your very best. Give it your very best. That way you're gonna feel good about what you accomplish. And then next is get better, you know. Work, you want to get better at something, work a little bit harder at it, and and never give up.

27:47 That's that's the uh that's the motto.

27:51 Love it. Hey, got last few things. So talk to Dan Quinn, coach of the commanders. He told a story about when he was at the Falcons, he could coach against Belichick in the Super Bowl, right? I know you I looked it up. You you were 1-0 against Bill Belichick. I'd like, but Dan was saying, hey, the level of coaching, he lost to them twice in the Super Bowl.

28:09 He said just that he had to be prepared as a coach because the guy on the other side is so prepared. There's no situation that Belichick had never really been in. You know, you you beat him, I think, up in New England. Love to hear about playing against him and prepping for him, what that was like. And the other guy was Nick Saban.

28:25 You beat Nick, I think, his last game. He's legendary coach in college. And just the same thing. I you know they c they kind of come from the same tree. I guess your thoughts about preparing for both and what that was like.

28:37 Uh I mean it's it they're uh there are they're immense uh challenges, as you can as you can imagine, uh, you know, the best, you know, the best uh some of the best that ever did it. Uh but you just uh you just do you know, you just do it's not like it's never really coach versus coach in any of these these uh kind of contests.

29:04 You know, it's probably I mean it's it's uh you know it's team versus team. And I mean be like be like saying a boxing match is, you know, ringside manager versus ringside manager, you know. It's it's uh it's all about the players. It's all about those that are that are in the arena, that are that are in the ring, and us as coaches are just trying to do everything we can to uh put our players in the in the best possible position that we can.

29:34 There's uh there's no I don't think there's any great coaches without great players. I don't think there's any good coaches without good players. You know, it's it's uh it's really all about them. It's uh I mean Teddy Roosevelt said it well, you know, it's the it's it's the man in the arena. So anything and everything that I do and uh and and all coaches that I that I know are are doing everything, anything and everything they can for the players to be successful.

30:00 And you know, there's there's no question that that Bill Belichick and uh Nick Saban, nobody better. There's nobody better. And uh few are even in that in that uh in that realm you know and we can name name the names, but the bottom line to me though is you're a coach of your team, whatever team that is, assistant coach, you got a you got a group of players that you coach, head coach, yeah, you get to you get to coach everybody, but you got the opportunity, high school, college, name the sport, women's sports, men's sport, you're a coach, and you have the opportunity to be somebody's favorite coach that they've ever had.

30:50 Somebody's favorite teacher, somebody's favorite coach they've ever had, and that opportunity is there for you. And go attack it with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind, and who the greatest coach is, probably unknowable, but you have the chance to be somebody's favorite coach they ever had. Man, that's that uh that's that's worthy of your absolute best effort.

31:16 No, and I love the answer. I and I hear it loud and clear. I I agree with you too. It's you know, the people show up to these stadiums not to see who's on the sideline, not to see the owner in the box. They show up to see the players on the field. You know, I I remember back when 9-11 happened, I was playing, and and the owners wanted us to keep playing that that week, and the players went in.

31:34 We said, no, they're putting bodies in the Giants indoor facility, and but the owners wanted everyone to play. The players said, No, we're not doing it, and they didn't didn't play. But you're right. I mean, people show up for the game, for the players and the game.

31:47 The magic that happens in real time when you don't know the outcome. It's it's there's no way of knowing what what it what is gonna happen. Yeah, and then to uh you know, to be to be a fan, to be uh somebody that's that's watching, to be somebody that's participating, to be somebody that's uh you know there, that's and it could happen.

32:12 The magic could happen, and uh and so often so often does. I mean, practically every every NFL game. So uh it's it's uh something that you you cherish. I mean, I cherish the opportunity to to be involved in it.

32:29 Right. You're putting your players in the best position to be successful. That's the coach's job. You want you put your team in a chance to win. That's what you're doing. Coach, what's the best advice you ever got?

32:42 The best advice that I've ever had, it'd be such a it would be like a uh it'd be a tie. There'd be like a probably uh a ten-way tie up there at the top. Be attack each day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind, which is again, I mean, that's that's otherworldly. That's unknown to mankind. That would be up there.

33:06 Justin Herbert, Mark Herbert's dad, you know, gave his kids advice, and it was really a four-step process of number one, give it your best.

33:21 Give it your very best.

33:23 And Dave Adolph used to say that same thing, which was great advice. Make sure you've given it your very best. That way you'll feel good about what you accomplished. Step two in in Mark Herbert's advice to his boys was get better. Get better. You are allowed to. I take I interpret that as you are allowed to try.

33:42 You are allowed to get better. And it and you know what? It's noticed when you do. Number three, treat others as you would want to be treated. That's biblical. Not a lot of uh needs to be uh clean from that. That's that is what it is. And number four, never give up. Never quit, never give in, never ever give up.

34:01 And I interpret that too as like don't say no to yourself. There are plenty of people out there that are they get paid to tell you no. They they uh part of their job is to to tell you no, but you don't, you don't, you don't quit, you don't give up, and you don't say no to yourself. Those four things, and then uh I kind of added a fifth to it, which is do all four things no matter how you boom fill it fill in the blank.

34:32 All four things, no matter how you feel, no matter if you've been adulted or or or criticized, whether you've been uh gotten a fair shake or not a fair shake, whether you've been respected, disrespected all four of those things, no matter how you how you feel, no matter if you've won or lost, or how much you get paid or not get paid, and that commitment of no matter what, no matter what you say about me, or or good or bad, I am going to give it my very best.

35:05 I am going to get better, I'm gonna treat others as I'd want to be treated, and I'm never gonna give up.

35:12 Love it, love it. Last question, coach. Played 15 years, highly successful coach for 25, 30 years, you're keeping going here. What do you want people to see former players, your kids, people to think of you or say about you and a Jim Harbour? He's uh what do you want him to say? Or what do you hope they say?

35:35 I uh yeah, I I got it.

35:40 I I don't, you know, people what my my yeah my they were they pro they were proud of me, you know. He he he did good. Uh you know, he gave he gave it his very best. And uh and yeah I love him, you know, and uh it's it's that's it's those people that know you that that's that's how I want them to feel feel about me.

36:07 Yeah, he did good. He was uh he was a force, he was a force for good in uh in my life. And those that I coach, yeah, I'm aspiring to be their their favorite coach, their favorite teacher. You know, my kids at home, I want them to I want to be their Yeah, I want to be their uh favorite dad. I guess maybe that sounds kind of funny because you're their only dad, but uh yeah, I want to those those those those things.

36:35 Yeah. Awesome. No, absolutely.

36:37 He did good, you know, he did good. That's important to me. He did.

36:42 And nobody's been better than you, coach. You played 15, you coach in national championship, been in Super Bowls, you're gonna win one here soon, I'm sure. You've done a great job. You know, me as a former player, coach, proud of you, rooting for you because you're you're a guy that's loves football.

36:56 You've been in football, you live it and breathe it, and you know, we we need guys like that that you know played it because you see it from the player perspective. You can appreciate the empathy for what a player goes through, and versus hey, just give me some new players. So really appreciate what you're doing and uh really appreciate your time on the show, and we'll we'll have you on again and uh keep going.

37:15 Best of luck this season. Hope you win it all. So thank you.

37:18 Thank you, Jim. Good luck, uh great uh great luck in uh in your podcast, and and thank you for all you do for football. Much appreciated.

37:26 You got it. Take care. Thanks, coach. Thank you.