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PreAccident Investigation Podcast

von Todd Conklin

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The Pre Accident Podcast is an ongoing safety podcast conversation of Human Performance, Systems Safety, & Safety Culture.

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  1. PAPod 622 - When Safety Programs Go Bad: Enshittification and the Iron Law

    Todd Conklin explores how safety programs, despite good intentions, often degrade over time: leading metrics turn lagging, bureaucracy self-reinforces (the "iron law"), and helpful tools can become weaponized in hindsight. He illustrates wi

  2. PAPod 621 - March 2015 - Safety Differently: Sidney Decker on Moving Beyond Blame

    Dr. Todd Conklin interviews Dr. Sidney Decker about his work on safety, accountability, and just culture. They discuss the Safety Differently approach: viewing people as solutions, addressing work conditions rather than behavior, and shifti

  3. PAPod 620 - From Risk to Mission: Rethinking Safety at Golden Gate

    Host Todd Conklin visits Golden Gate National Recreation Area with safety specialists Rik Hansen and Leo Shea to explore a shift in safety thinking — from focusing on risk to supporting mission performance. They discuss visits to Alcatraz,

  4. PAPod 619 - Normalization of Excellence: Turning Safety into Strength

    In this episode, Todd explores the evolution of safety thinking—from blaming human error to creating systems that support reliable work. He discusses the normalization of deviance versus a deliberate shift toward a normalization of excellen

  5. PAPod 618 - Poop In...Louder Poop Out?

    This episode explores the promises and pitfalls of AI in safety work, centered on the book The AI Paradox in Safety by Brent Sutton and Brent Robinson. Todd and Brent discuss how AI can either amplify blame and surveillance or enable learni

  6. PAPod 617 - Rome Wasn't Built at 8 a.m.: The Case Against Immediate Improvement

    This episode argues that meaningful improvement rarely happens overnight. Big-bang rollouts and sudden change cause chaos, bugs, and unintended consequences, while slow, incremental implementations let organizations prototype, find hidden f

  7. PAPod 616 - OSHA’s New Playbook: From Enforcement to Partnership

    In this episode Todd Conklin talks with David Keeling, Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health, about OSHA’s shift toward partnership, refreshing VPP, the new Safety Champions program, and focusing on serious injurie

  8. PAPod 615 - Leaders First: Why Safety Starts at the Top

    Todd joins James Newman and Ken Madsen on a special excerpt from the Counter-Errorism podcast to discuss productive safety, leadership change, and how investigations should inform solutions rather than impose them. They cover practical idea

  9. PAPod 614 - Accountability Labs: Learning to Have Each Other’s Back

    Todd Conklin hosts Jen Long on the Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast to introduce "accountability labs": practical, small-group exercises that help teams practice having each other’s back instead of weaponizing blame. The episode explains

  10. PAPod 613 - Don't Shoot the Dog: A Song for Safer Workplaces

    Host Todd talks with safety professional and singer-songwriter Toni Vere about human and organizational performance (HOP), accountability, and the power of fixing systems instead of blaming people. Toni performs "Don't Shoot the Dog," a son

  11. PAPod 612 - Speak Up or Stay Silent: Amy Edmondson on Psychological Safety

    Host Todd Conklin chats with Harvard’s Amy Edmondson about psychological safety, learning from failure, and how leaders can create workplaces where people speak up and learn. They cover just culture, systems thinking, and practical steps to

  12. PAPod 611 - Command–Adapt Paradox: Rethinking Safety for a Riskier World - David Woods - PART TWO

    Part two of a deep conversation with Professor David Woods examines five decades of safety practice and argues for a stronger science base, foresight, and continual revitalization. Topics include the Command–Adapt Paradox, the fluency law,

  13. PAPod 610 - Rock the Boat: Reimagining Safety Science with Dr. David Woods PART ONE

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-45055-6_8#:~:text=The%20Command%E2%80%93Adapt%20Paradox%20arises,%E2%80%9D%E2%80%94being%20poised%20to%20adapt. Todd hosts Dr. David Woods in a two-part episode challenging the current sta

  14. PAPod 609 - Ra Donda Brings Us Up to Speed on Her Effort to Change the World

    Join Ra Donda Vought and Todd Conklin and they meet up to discuss how Ra Donda has refined her message to the world and how surprised she is in other, non-medical industry. It is always so much fun to talk with Ra Donda - she has great ener

  15. PAPod 608 - Modern Safety: How Children's Hospitals Are Rewriting the Rules

    Join Todd and Dr. Anne Lynne from the CHOL conference as they explore “modern safety” in children’s hospitals and the SPS mission — how new lenses on risk, leadership behaviors, and a willingness to try small experiments are reshaping safet

  16. PAPod 607 - Croquet Mallets & Outlaws: My Family’s Bonnie and Clyde Encounter

    Host Todd interviews his mother, Gyla Conklin, who recounts a true 1933 encounter when her father, Bill Brock, and friends were held up by Bonnie and Clyde near Meade, Kansas. The episode highlights a dramatic rescue at a park, a croquet ma

  17. PAPod 606 - At the Cusp: How Leadership, Compassion and Worker Voice Are Rewriting Safety

    Todd Conklin talks with Rob Fisher about how leadership, workforce shifts and compassion are reshaping safety and reliability. They explore why organizations must move from fixing problems to improving systems, and how worker engagement bec

  18. PAPod 605 - When a Meeting Becomes an Emergency: Restoring the Room

    This episode recounts a medical emergency that occurred during a large conference and explains how a quick critical incident stress debrief helped restore the group and the organization. Todd outlines a simple restoration framework—who's hu

  19. PAPod 604 - On the Edge: Risks, Resilience, and Red Bull’s Adventure Athlete

    Host Todd Conklin interviews Red Bull athlete Will Gadd about adventure sports, recent tragic incidents (a parachute crash in Butler, Mo., a Moab base-jump, and a bungee failure), and how the outdoor world approaches risk. The episode explo

  20. PAPod 603 - Procedures: The Double-Edged Sword of Safety

    In this episode Todd Conklin explores the paradox of procedures: they keep work stable but also limit flexibility. He explains how procedures can be both necessary and constraining in high-risk, high-consequence environments. Todd highlight

  21. PAPod 602 - From Brazil with Safety: Gilval and the New View Revolution

    Todd Conklin talks with Gilval Menezes about Brazil’s growing movement to adopt the New View of safety: translating resources into Portuguese, building community, publishing a field guide, and running learning teams to shift culture away fr

  22. PAPod 601 - Rethinking Safety: AI, Pre-Jobs, and the Power of Listening

    Todd chats with Ron Gantt about the future of safety — from AI-driven pre-task tools to the limits of rote checklists — and why listening to frontline workers matters more than ever. They explore leadership’s role in shaping responses to in

  23. PAPod 600 - The Future of Safety: Learning Teams, Storytelling, and Not-Knowing

    In this part two conversation, Todd Conklin and Bob Edwards explore what the future holds for operational learning and safety. They discuss learning teams, storytelling, the power of curiosity and not-knowing, and how the people closest to

  24. PAPod 599 - Learn Like Bob: How Pediatric Teams Saved 30,000 Babies

    Todd Conklin and Bob Edwards discuss Solutions for Patient Safety (SPS), a grassroots movement of learning teams that used operational learning to dramatically reduce harm in pediatric care. The episode covers emotional stories from the SPS

  25. PAPod 598 - What If Risk Never Leaves? Exploring Transportable Hazards

    In this episode, Todd Conklin questions whether risk can ever truly be removed or if it simply moves around. He distinguishes between hazards and risk, discusses how organizations shift risk through contracting and worker practices, and arg

  26. PAPod 597 - From the way, way, way, way, back machine...Pain as a Predictor: Martha Acosta on Finding the Signals Before Failure

    Todd Conklin interviews Martha Acosta, a pioneer in human performance and instructional design, about using organizational "pain points" and paradoxes as early indicators of system failures. They discuss why near misses and workplace frustr

  27. PAPod 596 - Incremental Safety Practices: Reductive vs. Inductive Safety

    Todd Conklin reviews Erik Hollnagel’s new book "Incremental Safety Practices" and explains the core idea that safety efforts fall into two approaches: reductive (removing hazards) and inductive (building resilient systems). He urges listene

  28. PAPod 595 - Beyond Checklists: How Conversations Transform Safety Culture

    Host Todd Conklin talks with Daniel Hummerdahl about his new book, An Invitation to Safety Conversation, exploring how everyday safety talks can move beyond scripted checklists to become learning moments that bridge leaders and workers. The

  29. PAPod 594 - Bridging Cultures: Safety, Migrant Workers, and the Heart of Agribusiness

    Coming into this episode, Todd Conklin welcomes Al Thomson to discuss safety in the primary sector, focusing on migrant Pacific workers and a human-centered approach. Al shares how Monarch Platform blends pastoral care, cultural understandi

  30. PAPod 593 - Young Voices, System Thinking: A Conversation on Safety with Mousa Yassin

    Host Todd chats with Mousa Yassin about shifting safety culture from blaming individuals to designing systems that tolerate failure and recover quickly. They cover life-saving rules, the concept of recoverability, lessons from software engi

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