Khris Riddick-Tynes

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Jay Valentine and this is the R & B Money Podcast. And I have a young gentleman today that I believe is on the road to becoming an absolute legend in the music business. You know what they told me? They told me R & B was dead. I said, you motherfucking cockroaches. Y'all just scared.

Because there's a young man from Los Angeles, California, doing so much great R & B music, keeping this thing alive.

That I feel good about being in it.

We definitely not going to snooze on him. You might get folded up if you try to snooze on him.

You know what I mean? It could be a girl's night out.

But today and tonight, I'm going to introduce you to my good friend.

His name is Chris Riddick Tines.

They named a nigga more times than once.

We going to get into that, too. Y'all welcome my guy, Chris Riddick Tines. Oh, man. Appreciate you having me here, man. Man, it's been a long time coming, brother. Yeah. You know, you be canceling this shit. Nah, that's you, man. I'm the host, so I can say you can't. You know what I mean? See, they set me up on you.

This is how it goes. This is how it goes. How you feeling, bro? I'm feeling great, man. I'm feeling great.

How you doing?

You look expensive. You look expensive. This is R & B money. A little something. You know what I mean? Like, you are proof that there's money in R & B music. Yeah. So, let's start from the beginning, bro. Let's start in L.A., right? We in L.A. This is your hometown. Everybody from here. Yeah. I know that you're actually from here. Yeah. You know what I mean? Born and raised in Southern California. Yep.

First off, how is it getting in the music business and being from Los Angeles, though? Because that seems like a different type of thing.

Yeah, I think being from the city, it's like there's always one degree of separation. Yeah. It could be homies you play basketball with. or a football wit, a Pop Warner, whatever, their uncle might be a producer, or yada, yada, yada, or somebody's cousin, or everybody's kind of doing music. So everybody's one degree of separation away from the business. Like, when I was growing up, I went to Maria Regina for, it was a Catholic school for elementary and junior high. Okay.

And from K through eight. And like, we had, it was like, Tiger was at my school, Y'all were classmates? Yeah, well, he's a little bit older than me. Okay. But yeah, yeah, yeah. His grandma used to run the, like, she was like one of the disciplinarians there and ran the front office. So Tiger's grandma whooped you? Tiger's grandma whooped him. She wanted to grab me by the ears. She was amazing. But, yeah, we had... It was just so much talent. Like, Brandon Jennings went to the school. Okay. And a couple other cats, you know, in high school. C.P. Dubb, who did French Montana's Unforgettable. Shit. You know, we went to high school together. So, it's just a lot of people that were kind of in the mix from kindergarten to high school that were

doing music. And we kind of all just... Everybody just kind of knew about each other. You know what I'm saying? So.

For you, were you already pursuing music in your mind of like, this is something I want to do with my life? Or was it like, okay, I'm doing something else first before the music thing kicked in for you?

I think music was something that I was always kind of good at because my pops is a musician. Yeah. I'm always a musician. Yeah. Is it true your daddy was part of Randy and the Gypsies? Yeah. You went deep diving. Your daddy really was part of Randy Jackson and the Gypsies? Yeah, yeah. Hey, man. Jermaine!

Yeah!

I knew it. I knew it was something about you, dog. Nigga! Yeah, yeah. No shit.

Yeah, yeah.

So him and Randy grew up together. Okay. You know, they were friends. And Neil Pope, who's my godfather, you know, they all was just a crew. And it was the same thing. It was like, No different than a me and Leon or whatever the case may be. We're going to get to that. Yeah.

I need to know how you meet the Disney niggas. We're going to get to that.

You will.

We're going to get to that in a minute. Cause that's wild to me. I'm like, this is Nickelodeon Disney. You just somehow, but this is LA. Yeah.

This is LA. So, okay. So your father. Musician. He's, he's in the band. He's in the band writing him and Randy wrote a lot of those songs together. Okay. Was he the first in the family? No. No, my grandma was actually signed to Uptown Records, the original Uptown Records back in the 70s. So there's another Uptown before. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, wait, what? Yeah. Yeah.

Hold on, dog. Yeah.

So there's an Uptown before Andre Herrera.

I believe so, yeah. You might be lying. No, I'm not lying. I'm not lying. If you look up Maria Times, the queen is on her knees. Yeah, that was her record. The queen is on her knees. Yeah, and she wrote for. Can you explain that? for me a little bit grandma was wild okay all right no i was begging and pleading begging and pleading yeah i'm pleading but yeah she used to um write songs for um what's the lady that sings uh mr big stuff betty right yeah betty right yeah so you know let my grandma tell it she was like betty right used to make pies for me back in back in the south and who do or chicago i can't remember my grandma lived all over but she was like yeah and i knew she could sing and You know, I helped her get her situation.

So your grandma said she discovered it. My grandma discovered everything she be saying. Yeah. I respect that. RIP to Grandma Marie. She said she also started Uptown. I believe it was Uptown. I believe. I don't think they gonna get you for that one, bro. They gonna fry me? Yeah, they gonna fry you for that one, bro. They gonna fry you. You gotta fact check it. It's okay. It's okay. Alright, so you come from a musical family and Are you playing instruments? Are you in a group? Nah. Are you going that route? Are you in B2K part two? So, you know, I did piano. I think everybody does piano lessons, right?

When you're a kid. And it was like, man, this shit is boring. I want to learn when the Saints go marching in. Right. I want to learn Michael Jackson. Right. They didn't meet you where you were. Yeah. It was just something that I would just, you know, just knew how to do when it came to just sounds and messing around. You could play by ear. Yeah. I'm not crazy.

I'm good enough to write songs, but. What started it was my pops went into law enforcement after the band disbanded. And then once I was born. They went from Randy to Jisties? Yeah. To the Popo? To the Popo. Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah. Because, I mean, he had a kid. So he was like, yo, like, if the band ain't working, I got to take care of my family. So he went in and, you know, I think Randy started doing music, too, or whatever. And what ended up happening was maybe, like, 13 years later, by this time, my uncle Pogue, he became the mixer that everybody went to. So during this time he did like TLC and a bunch of other people, whatever, Outkast, you know, he did all the Outkast stuff. And him and my uncle Lenny was kind of telling my dad like, yo,

there's this new thing called Pro Tools. It's digital. So like, it's basically all this gear in the box. So my pops was like, you know, okay, cool. So they're like, you can work from home now. You don't really need a studio. So, My pops had got a Pro Tools set up. It was a G5 Mac, which is like the big ass... I had one. Yeah, you know, the big ass silver trash can looking joints. And he got it, got it set up, converted our garage into like a little studio. Nigga turned it on, didn't know how to use a computer. Yeah, this ain't analog no more. So he was like, he was kind of stumped. And you know, like everybody kind of grew up using Windows computers. So...

Mac was like foreign. It was like foreign. Yeah. Especially if you weren't used to computers, you know what I'm saying? So I just kind of went back there and just started learning how to run logic and pro tools and sampling and messing with the, uh, let me show you how to do it. Yeah, basically. And then like a few months went by, he's like, nigga better than me.

So he was like, uh, he just kind of let me have free reign in there. And that kind of became a spot where everybody came to recording.

So him thinking that, He was going to get back into music a little bit, kind of opened up a whole new lane for you and your friends.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's dope. So ultimately he was your first investor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On accident. On accident. Yeah. Yeah. And then grandma was like, man, you need some better speakers. So then she got me the KRKs. Yeah. The eights. Oh, this is dope though.

Yeah.

And you're producing for your homies. You started just making beats. Yeah. So I met a guy named Alvin, Alvin Isaacs, uh, amazing producer. And then we kind of became a little clique fresh out of high school, right? Yeah. Into high school. Okay. And he's a little bit older than me. So, you know, he was already making beats and doing the beat battles and all that kind of stuff. So we got together.

That ended up kind of one thing leading to another where we ended up meeting Antonio Dixon. And then that led to us meeting Babyface. Are you still in college at this point? Because you went to college, though. Yeah, I went to college.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you're in high school at this point? Yeah. It's like my senior year. But you choose to still... go to college or you were forced to which one was it so my mom's deal like when i was like yo i really want to do music she kind of had a bad taste in her mouth you need to go to school so you know finish college and then you do what you want yeah and then you can kind of what you major i was in political science major you said i was yeah did you finish i finished oh you didn't finish like you said it as if like yeah i was there no no no i got a part of it yeah no the political science major and then also african-american studies congratulations brother Yeah. Yeah.

I love that.

Cause it's like five of you niggas who actually finished.

Yeah. And I went to law school too. Wait, what? Yeah. Yeah. We know this though. You haven't said, you haven't said. for the podcast. Oh, I did not know you went to law school though. I knew you went to LMU. Yeah. You went to college. Yeah. I had no idea you went to law school though. Yeah. Yeah. But that was like, like way later. Are you an attorney? I didn't take the bar yet. I didn't take the bar. But if you wake up tomorrow and say, I just want to take the bar, you can be an attorney. Yeah. I was studying for the bar and this news happened. We're going to get to that. That's wild. That's wild. I think you should take the bar just on flex. I am.

I am.

I just, you know. When a nigga try to tell you something, be like, you. Yeah. Esquire. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's hilarious, though. Yeah. All right. So we're going to get to snooze. The name, though. Yeah. Chris Riddick Tynes. Yeah. So my parents were married when they first had me. Okay. Okay. Okay. So my grandma. It's your son. Yeah, my grandma. You're going to take all these names. See, my grandma, my mom's mom didn't know if my uncle was going to have kids. So she was like, he need to have a Riddick name. She was right. He had kids. Okay.

But you know, I was a first born. So like. But it gave you a cool ass name though. Yeah. It gave you a cool ass name. Like royalty or something, you know. It's Christopher Van Riddick Thompson. So it's like I'm a knight. Van Riddick. Yeah, Van Riddick. I'm not calling you Chris. You're Van Riddick from now on. That shit is fly. That shit is fly. And it kind of sounds like a football player. Yeah, exactly. You got one of them multi-multi-hyphenate names now. You know what I'm saying? Oh, that's dope, bro. That's dope. Okay, so now finish college. Yep.

Is anything clicking musically? Because y'all know you're working toward it.

Yeah, so what's crazy is that In the beginning of college is when me and Leon met. Like, maybe, I want to say it was like the end of my freshman year. I had a homegirl who was friends with Leon. And, you know, we got with Babyface right out of high school. So I was at Brandon's way. You knew Face first.

I knew Antonio first. Okay. And played Antonio some. They had the Pentagon. The Pentagon. Like him. Me and Tank were supposed to be a part of that. Yeah. And so they was doing their thing at Brandon's Way. And I remember I went and Damon had that, what's that keyboard with the little computer screen on it that all them niggas had?

I can't think of it, but I know exactly the keyboard you're talking about.

I'm not a gear nerd.

But I know what you're talking about.

So they was like geeking out over it. And then it had the squares. It had I square and all them. IJ, shout out my IJ. Yes, sir. And we went up there. You know, we thought our stuff was dope. And we pressed play. You and Leon? No, me and Alvin. Okay. And so we went up there to go play stuff for Tony. And he was like, the beats are cool, but the songs suck. Now, by that time, I hadn't really experienced nothing. So, you know, I didn't know. You're just writing. You're just writing. Ooh, baby, I love you. Whatever.

And so he's like, yo, just... kind of pay attention to what's going around you. If you ain't experienced it yet, your mom is probably experienced, your dad's probably experienced. So, you know, just kind of like absorb. And that kind of clicked for me. And, you know, we came back maybe like three months later, came and played him some joints.

And he was like, yo, great improvement. I want to play some music for somebody. So can you guys come into a little room? So if you've been to Brandon's way, it's a little C room, which is like a little closet. Yeah. And so he's main writer. Yeah. Yeah. His main writing room. And it'd be hot as shit in there, man. A hundred degrees. Yeah. And so, uh, he comes in and he's like, y'all, I want to introduce you to somebody.

And then Kenny walks around the corner and he's like, Hey man, how you doing, man? Yeah, we're good. And he's like, well, let me get some music. So we played him like three songs and he's like, you know, yeah, I've been out. And so he cuts it off and he's like, do you have a, do you have a deal? Do you have a publishing deal or do you have anything?

And I was like, nah, I don't even know if I was 18 at the time, but I was like, I was like, I think I got to ask my mom, like, cause I don't, I don't think, you know? And so he was like, can I sign the baby? So, so, so he's like, well, look, it's a, so it was winter break. He was like, yo, just come back. Y'all can use a little, little other small closet room. And then we'll just figure it out. We'll go from there.

So there was no pressure on like paperwork. Okay. That's really just coming up there. So we worked out of there for a minute. And how me and Leon got connected was there was this rapper that we were working with. And I had this idea, but I don't play guitar. And I was like, man, it'd be dope to have like a guitar on here. And my homegirl was there and she was like, yo, this guy I've been hanging out with. He's really cool. His name is Leon. I think you should meet him. He plays guitar. Leon had been up to the studio because he had worked with Face and Tony. Earlier, for his own artist project, early, early, early, like early, early iterations. Victorious days. Victorious days. Because he's still on Victorious at this time. When y'all meet. When

we meet. He comes over and we just literally worked every day since then. It just clicked. We just clicked. First day. Every day. Because for him, he was an actor. And music is what he's always, what he's doing now is what he was always meant to be doing. And always what his heart was always telling him to do. But, you know, I just think When you are multi-hyphenate like that, you ride in a wave of whatever is. And it's tough.

And it's tough. You know what I mean? Him and I have spoken about that. You know what I mean?

That's a tough space to be in when somebody thinks they know you for something else.

Right. Or they think they even know you for a character you're playing. Yeah. More so than who you actually are as a human. Yeah. That's really tough. And I think breaking through that, it's not easy. Yeah. It's not easy, man. No, it's not. No matter how talented you are. Yeah. Because you just got some people that are just stuck on things. Yeah. No, no.

You're such and such. Like, nigga, no, I'm not. Yeah. It's actually not even my name. You know what I mean? And it's hard when it's big. Yes. You know what I'm saying? It's easier to shake it when you're the sub-character. But he was the main guy. You know, main character. So, yeah. And that's how we met Ariana. Because that was the first thing we did. When I was in college, it was Ariana. We produced half of. Yours truly. Obviously, they already knew each other from. They knew each other. So he was like, I quickly understood being at Brandon's way.

Two things. All these niggas that was coming to the studio to work were coming to work with Kenny. Right. And then they were not concerned about working with me. Like, Eber, Beyonce, Alicia, and Kenny and Tony are partners. So, you know, and Tony obviously has his own stripes and his own, right? Yeah. So, you know, they either come and work with Tony or they come and work with Kenny. And they were kind of having a resurgence. They did the Beyonce record, Best Thing I Never Had. This is before it came out.

You know, these are demos of JQ, you know, all those guys. So these niggas was not trying to work with us. And so my thing, one thing I pride myself on is just being observant, you know. And so, and I ask a lot of questions. And so when I would sit and talk to Kenny, because he was kind of like, Bruce Wayne, man, he show up and he go up into the, he disappeared. Yeah. He disappeared.

But the times I could sit and talk with him, I quickly understood that a lot of the success they had was from him in LA finding their own artists. Yes. So, so that was kind of what my hunt was. You know what I'm saying? Which is trying to find people to work with. And that, that was kind of my skill.

And so, you know, that's how we found Kehlani. She was 15, 16, you know, she was still in the Bay. You know, I found her, I was like, yo, she's going to be the new TLC. There's no barriers for her. She's breaking. She's going to make her all three of them in one. But that's what it is.

She's going to be in the TOT. You are T-Boz, left eye, and shit.

But she is though. No, that's not it. Maybe it's a lot of pressure. But I think. But that's what I thought. Right. And niggas thought I was crazy. They were like, they were like, we, we, she could sing, she could, but it was like, nigga, I don't know. But I was like, no, but see, they didn't understand the cultural part of it. Like she's breaking gender boundaries.

She's breaking the shit she's talking about. Girls wasn't really talking about that. Kind of talking like she was singing rap lyrics. We didn't have, and it felt good. You know what I'm saying? She didn't, niggas really didn't have that.

I wonder if those original demos she sent me.

Are yours. Probably not. No? Nah, because... See, now you don't want to claim it. Look at you. Look at you trying to get out of it. Nah, nigga, you just said it. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. They're not, they're not, they're not, they're not. She had some shit, you know what I'm saying? You kind of just dissed her a little bit. No, I did not. It was Jahan Live. No, it was probably Jahan Sweet. It was probably Jahan Sweet. Or it was... You don't like Jahan's records? No, Jahan is my guy. That nigga's amazing. Messy. Jahan is my guy. Fuck with you. But nah. You don't interview a lot, do you? Nah, I don't. Got your ass. Yeah, you got me. But it's all good. Nah, nah. Clickbait.

Nah.

Because, you know, her and I met... really early in her career.

Too yeah yeah no but we met here oh you actually met in la she was a she was young young though yeah and um she was out here and she's working with nick hannah at the time yeah yeah and she sang for me uh i met her through my guy jay anthony and you know i was trying to help her out just you know just give her guidance and some stuff and she was sending me records i still have those records to this day.

Yeah. I still have those records. Dude, she's, you know, she just, she just kept it going and kept elevating. But, but that was the thing. And so when it came to Ariana, you know, Leona was like, yo, there's a girl on my show. She could sing and she's crazy at singing, but I don't know if they really got it figured out. We should have her come to the studio.

So I'm like, bet. Did she have a deal and stuff yet? She was signed to Republic, but they were doing like weird, they were doing different records. It was like very sixties, very like swing kind of records. And then, and then there's you. And then there was us, you know, and then we, and then we came in and there was a record that was originally done for Beyonce called Baby I. Yeah. Yeah. And I grabbed the files from Tony.

I said, yo, I'm going to reproduce this and I'm going to, I want to try something. So he was like, I don't, cool, whatever. So remade it. And I had Ariana sing it. And I was like, yo, she's the next Mariah Carey. She got it. I was like, she's the next Mariah Carey. Everybody was blown away by her talent.

But at that time, Mariah was still Mariah. You know what I'm saying? And so that's a big shoes to fill. But it's just like how I said that Kehlani to me was a new TLC. I felt like Ariana was a new Mariah. One thing led to another. And then Wendy kind of let me and Leon do, it was us and Harmony that did majority of that first album.

So that was the first big thing. And that happened while I was in school. At this point, you guys have established the rascals. The rascals, yep. This is when y'all had a tag. Yeah, that we only used on that one. I didn't like it. I didn't like it either. I'm like, but you know what? We was kids, bro. Like, that's a weird-ass tag. Whatever. Mr. Rascal. to a ballot.

But it worked. But it worked. This nigga's gonna make sure y'all know who did this song. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm actually, it's funny, right? Because we've been in the business long enough to see waves.

Uh-huh. I remember when that was just a thing. Yeah. Like, producers were hell-bent.

I remember we were making maybe, um, SLP2 album, I think. And I was having those conversations from the executive management side.

I'm like, listen, bro, I can't have your tag on here. And niggas were hurt. Oh, it was, yeah, you get mad. And niggas were hurt. Like, no, no, what?

Listen, man, it just sounds weird on this song. You know what I mean? Yeah, just trying to have those conversations. Yeah, because I think the producers at that point had got so used to everybody having a tag, that that just kind of became part of the records. And think about it, you know, for a lot of guys, especially like Mustard and, you know, when you heard Mustard on the beat, you kind of already got excited about what you were about to hear.

Yeah.

When you heard the Mustard on the beat. You know what I'm saying? And it didn't matter what it was on. That was a tough side from the management, executive side to have those conversations with creatives.

Mm-hmm. Like, bro, I get it. But, like, don't nobody.

And I have, like, real conversations with niggas where they just like, man, well, you know, how they going to know.

I produced it? See, that's the thing. Like, after we did that shit, I was like, you look at all the great, Dr. Dre don't have one. Babyface don't have one. Right? Timberland don't have one. You know what I'm saying? You know the sound, but you, you know how to. So, it's just, it kind of dates you. Yeah. Now, somebody actually talked about that with a lot was Boy Wonder.

Because he was, he don't do it. We stopped that shit right after. Because it was just like. I mean, listen, it's each their own. Yeah. Right.

But I think for me, like I said, from the executive side, man, I just, I didn't, I was never big on the, on the tags.

Yeah. So this album comes out. Is this your first placement? The first placement was actually Boyz II Men. Like maybe a year or two before that. Okay. Yeah. We were just playing beats and Wanya came into my room because he heard stuff and was like, I want to do that song. And I was like. This is you and Leon?

Me and Alvin. Okay.

Yeah.

Me and Leon's first placement together was Ravon's Best Friend. Oh shit. I don't even know if you remember that record. Oh shit. Ravon Brown. I love Ravon Brown. Yeah. She's amazing. Yeah.

Yeah.

She's amazing. He's amazing. That was our first record. That's crazy, bro. Okay. What's your charge? Come on, man.

You're not that rich. I know you're really rich now, but come on, dog. You still remember when you weren't rich, bro. Come on.

I don't know. Back then, it was probably like $ 7, 500 or something like that. That's a lot of money. For your first placement, $ 7, 500. But you know what? We had Kenny and Face behind us. You had Both the people. You said Kenny and Face. I mean, Kenny and Tony. I'm like, damn, nigga. Kenny and Tony. Yeah. They took part of y'all $ 7, 500? No, no, no. They didn't take part of it. Fuck that, bro. I'm going to talk to them niggas. That ain't cool. No, no. They didn't take part of it. They didn't take part of it.

They didn't take part of it. No, they didn't. No, they didn't. Not part of it. Hey, Face. Why you take part of it? You don't need $ 7, 500. They didn't do that. Why would y'all take the rascals' money, man? Out of control, man. out of control. All right. So, so you get $ 7, 500. Yeah.

At that point for you though, is that the most money you had ever made in your life at that point?

Like as a bulk of money? Because what else were you doing? I'm trying to think. Did I do my pub deal at that point? Oh, you got a pub deal? I got a pub deal. Yeah. Eventually I did a pub deal. Did you do the pub deal with Kenny? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Was it with some cool bread? Yeah. It was straight.

It was straight. It wasn't like what it is now, but it was straight. Of course. It was like. Right. Yeah. Did you do anything stupid? Nah. No? I wasn't really into no dumb shit. The first thing I did when I got, like, the first thing I spent on me when I was with the Ariana Advances, I got a BMW M-Series. That's kind of stupid. It's kind of stupid.

Yeah.

But that was it.

Yeah.

I like it, though. Yeah, that was it. I like it, though. I'm not saying it in a bad way. Stupid Fresh. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And at this point, you probably what? Still early 20s? Yeah, I was like. Oh, you killing. 21. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. I like that. And you still in school? And I'm still in school. Oh. So, yeah. Yeah, you big. I had a girlfriend. You big dog on campus, though. Yeah, but I had a girlfriend. But I'm sure it's making her nervous. My boyfriend got an M6. M4. And four. Cool. Okay, okay, okay.

You start off a little slower. Start slower. Okay, okay. First one in L.A., though. They told you that lie they used to tell me. Okay, so listen.

As my young player partner, I'm going to tell you the truth.

I don't know if you know this or not. I'm sure you do by now.

Bro, you know how much money I done spent thinking I was the first nigga with something?

First one in L.A.? Oh, they don't got this color. Yeah. Yeah, this just land. Yeah.

All you have to do is drive around the corner to the other dealership and you'll see the same one.

But we're so stupid.

They were like, nigga, this ocean blue?

Yeah. Don't exist. Mine was silver. I'm the first one in LA. Mine was silver. They had that everywhere. In the same two block radius. Silver? Silver. Oh, no. Yeah, they had that everywhere. I didn't get no special metallic paint. But, you know, it made you feel good. Made me feel great. And they probably added an.

Extra $ 5, 000.

Oh, man. I'm glad I'm not dumb no more. And my little Elite play. Remember the Elite? Everybody used to go do Elite. You got it from Todd? Todd. Hey, man, shout out. You know, you're bringing back memories, bro. Shout out Todd from Elite.

Yeah.

Man, you can go see Todd. And you can have a 300 credit score. Get anything. You got some bread, though? Get anything. I'm going to get you right. You're going to have a whip. Right.

And niggas was putting those Elite plates on cars that wasn't Elite. I ain't going to hold you because I've definitely been in traffic in my many moons of living in L.A. Seeing a car with the Elite plate like, nope. Ain't no way Ty sold you that car. He don't sell those. With an elite plate on it.

Oh, shit. But that also is LA. Yeah, super LA. That is LA, man.

And that's why I had asked you earlier about growing up here and then getting into this business because it's a different.

Experience for y'all.

And my experience of knowing a lot of guys and young ladies from LA. When you talk to y'all, it's just a different It's a different type of path.

Yeah. Because you are so close. Yeah. But we're all so far. All of us are far. I think you got a better gauge on pitfalls. You know what I'm saying? Gotcha. And this might be a wild, crazy take, but I feel like if you're talented enough and you're from the city, you're in a class of people that legitimately get a shot.

And it depends on what you do with that shot. Yeah. Yeah. But for the most part, if you are of a certain talent, certain caliber, you got a shot. You got to look. You're going to get a look. You're going to get a look. Get the looks. Lose the looks. Never get the look again. Right. Get the look back.

Win two more championships. You know what I'm saying? So you kind of know how to, you know the lay of the land a little bit better versus like, you're not so jaded towards it. You know how ugly it can get. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I think that is a blessing being from the city. You can kind of. Being close to it. you can see the ups and downs of it so it was never glamorous to me you know in a sense of like the romanticization of it it was just like okay this is a job and this could be fun but also like you got to do other stuff which is you know have your hand in other stuff.

Yeah did you ever hit niggas with like you know i know randy jackson Nah.

No? Nah. Nah, nah.

I be telling niggas to picture me and Mike all the time.

Me and Mike, nigga. Nah. You said you was hanging out with who? So? Me and Mike. And Bubbles, nigga. Bubbles. Nigga, I win. Man, my dad had a funny story. He said at Westlake, they went to go see Mike, and Bubbles had the room upstairs. Yeah. But Bubbles took a shit. Man. He didn't have his pamper off? Bubba's throwing shit. Like the zoo? Like the zoo. Mm-mm, you don't want to go in there. Mm-mm. Bubba's just being a bad guy today. Man, it matches me. You know what? We catch the fame with Bubba. Was you in the bad video? Was you the kid in the bad video? Nah, me and that nigga looking like that. Yeah, I did. What's your name?

My name's Brandon, I think. Brandon, uh... He was in the nigga from Mighty Ducks.

Yeah.

You know that wasn't me. I know. Y'all gotta cut and show the kid from the bad video so y'all can see how they look alike. Yeah. Hey, man. My nigga was in the people under the stairs. Yeah. Yeah. That's a legend, bro. Shout out to bro. Shout out to bro. It's not me. You knew that. I'm like, you know what? I got you. I got you. I got you. All right. Ariana Grande. Yep. Platinum out the gate.

You're having real success. Yeah.

You're having real success. Is there a plan for y'all as the Rascals? Or does it start to shift into like, you know, Leon obviously still wanting to be.

An artist at that point. Yeah. Like, how are y'all navigating the business and y'all business? For a few years, we went hard at production and we were producing everybody. Yeah. When the relationship started developing with Kehlani and then, you know, the relationship started working with Boy Wanda and I led to some Drake records. Yeah. But ultimately. Not just some Drake. Bro, you love all, bro. You got, bro, dog.

Y'all niggas got a Drake and Jay-Z record.

Yeah.

You just kidding. But at least.

Two of the greatest rappers, most successful rappers.

Yeah. And we may not never see them niggas on the song again together. So, nigga, that's pretty amazing. Yeah. You know, but it's one of those things where I think the end goal was always he was going to be an artist. Yeah. And I was going to do my thing as an executive. And I think... You know, that was very clear. Yeah. And then it just it just it happened, you know, and production was a means to get into those. You know what I'm saying? We still do it. Obviously, he does it on his art stuff and he's still producing for other people when, you know, but he's an artist. That's his thing. And then for me, it's like, you know, I'm of service. So, like, if I'm producing, I'm producing things that I'm encapsulating and doing

the whole thing. Right. You know, trying to guide more than just doing one off session. Yeah. No, bro.

Yeah.

I quietly just went on a run, though.

Like for real, bro, like y'all really had a dope run of records that when y'all was really focused on the production side.

Yeah. I mean, from obviously Drake and Jay and then Ella Mai. Yeah.

Like obviously Kehlani and Ariana Grande. Y'all niggas is Rick Ross, bro.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like y'all really was getting to it. Sometimes it's one of those things where, and that's ultimately why we have this show, right? To truly highlight it. Because there aren't a lot of people who read credits. You really can't read credits as much no more. You got to like view credits on the DSPs. And then of course y'all took y'all dumb tag off the songs.

Yeah. Now nobody knows y'all did them unless you go search for it.

You know what I mean? I just want to celebrate you for that, bro. And obviously, you know, Leon's been on the show.

Yeah.

And you know how proud we are of him and how he's broken through from that artist side too.

Yeah.

But man, like just from as writer producers, man, I guess it's something that, that needs to be recognized.

No, I appreciate that, man. Keep your head down and doing the work. That's the main thing. Like, I think a lot of it is who your mentors are, right? Because that's kind of how you learn how to operate in a negative way, in a positive way. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, the humility that Antonio has, the humility that Kenny has, which he will turn up and let you know he's babyface when it's time. Babyface goes full asshole. Yeah. Oh, niggas. But see. Respectfully. But see, you don't be knowing. You be like, oh. I be knowing.

I be knowing. I'm like, oh. But see, that's how I aspire to be. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But you never hear nobody say nothing bad about Ken. No. Because he's always so gracious. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you get smacked up and you don't really realize it until you're like, oh shit, this nigga did you?

But that's the key. So, you know, I think it's about who you surround yourself with, who you... who you model yourself after. So for us, it was all about putting the head down at work. You know what I'm saying? Like none of them niggas are both of him, Tony and Kenny. They're not loud people. So for us, it was just about, you know, and me specifically, it's just, I was just putting my head down and, and, and, and not counting other people's successes and not, you know what I'm saying? Cause I know when I get the ball, I know what I'm gonna do with it. Right.

I just need to get in the game. That wall of records. It lets you know, I still haven't done enough.

Oh yeah. Bro, people come to my crib and see the Grammys or see my wall, and I'm like, this ain't nothing compared to Kenny's wall. Yeah, bro, that wall is insane. And that wall stops, like, two decades. Yeah. So, like, he got two decades of other walls and Grammys. He could have a warehouse of plaques. He could have a warehouse of plaques.

And, you know, like, yeah, he has his moments where he, you know, he get his shit off, but very humble guy.

Yeah. Very gracious person.

And to see that and come from under that and to turn into an asshole, that means.

You already was just going to be an asshole.

Because if you see, you know, who this guy is and what he's done and how.

He operates still as a human. Yeah.

You want to follow in that. You want to follow in that and you want to be that person to people as well.

You know what I mean? And we share in that. That was my start too. Yeah. Brandon's way. Yeah. You know what I mean?

At 18. And seeing that wall and going in there with Paul and Paul cutting vocals for me.

And you know what I mean? Like there's just the whole, the whole process, bro. Shout out Paul. Shout out Paul, bro. Paul hated us when we first got here. I'm sure he hates, you know what? Paul kind of hates everybody but Kenny. It's the Frenchness. Yeah. Yeah. Paul kind of hates everybody but Kenny. But Paul's another person who turned into a great mentor. You know what I'm saying? I remember when we first got to Brandon's way, they had one rule, which is like, Don't go in the B room.

That's Kenny's room. Yeah. Of course. Go in the B room. Go in the B room. Of course. We had, you know, we had a pizza party and shit. Homegirls came through. Nigga, we locked ourselves out the room. Oh, my God. Speakers is blaring.

808.

Boom.

Boom. For the whole weekend. Kenny in Hawaii. Oh, shit. He in Hawaii on a vacation trip. On a vacation. Uh-huh. With the family. And Paul comes in that Monday. And it's still going? Still going. He like, who the fuck was in this? Y'all was in the studio. We're like, oh, shit. He gets on the phone. You know, he called Kenny.

He snitched on us. He tells Paul, so we packing our shit up off. Sad and shit. Like, damn, we just blew our shot at Brandon's way. It's over. Okay. Nigga, they get a call from Epic. There's a record that we did on a girl group that Pete Farmer, I don't know if you remember Pete Farmer. That's my guy.

I just saw Pete last week at the mall. That's my guy. He had this girl group called, I can't remember his name, Girls Something. And we produced a record. And L.A. was like loving the record. So we walking out the door. And I kid you not, Paul comes out and says, hey, bring your stuff back in. Bring your stuff back in. Put those files because L.A. loves that song. And, you know, they're going to place it on the girl group. We'll do the whoop. The record saved y'all. The record saved us. Y'all really got kicked out.

We really got kicked out. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. The power of music. A hit changes everything. Yeah. A hit changes everything. And that's like across the board. Yes. Man, I am in full agreeance with you on that. Yeah. Yeah. That is wild, though. I didn't think that's where the story was going. Yeah. So, shout out L.A. Hey, man, shout out. L.A., that's my dog. That's my dog and a hell of an executive. Yeah. Hell of a record man. Yeah.

You know what I mean? He can hear a hit record. Yeah. Yeah. Nigga. That one got me stuck.

That one got me stuck, bro, because I've been on the other side of that. You know, maybe some young guys who don't get it yet.

Yeah. And having to teach that lesson. Yeah. And you don't want to, though, because you're just like, damn, I really want to help these niggas. Stop being. niggas you know what i mean but i told y'all it's like your dad leaving the keys to the ferrari and being like don't drive it you're gonna fucking drive it yeah you know this is also our business it is and that's right yeah that's the part that at our age when we're that young You don't always get. Yeah.

And we, you know, and this is a business of, you know, of youth at times where immensely talented young creatives.

Yeah. Don't have business acumen. That taught me the lesson. Yeah. Of, I don't want to be in the hot seat. Like, you know what I'm saying? If somebody says don't do it, just don't do it. I'm cool. I'm off it. Yeah. All right. So all this is happening. You get kicked out, you get brought back in.

You think you got a hit record that's bringing you back in.

Yeah, that never came out. But don't come out because that happens a lot. Yeah, yeah. You know.

What I mean?

And then Snooze happened. Yeah, Snooze happened. That's just probably like, I mean, me and Leon hit the pavement, I want to say, for a good eight to nine days. damn, probably 10 years, bro. Producing everybody. Yeah. And Snooze came about because Babyface was doing a record called Girls Night Out. Girls Night Out. Absolutely. And we had been trying to convince him to do A Waitin' to Excel for a very long time. I was very excited when he was doing Girls Night Out. And so him and Rika met and they started their thing. Shout out Rika. And Rika was the one that kind of finally convinced him like, dude, you're And this is his first project at Capitol, right?

With Chris Turner? Yeah, his first project at Capitol. And, you know, Kenny... Shout out Chris Turner, too. Yeah, shout out Chris Turner. He knows who he is, but I think sometimes, you know, when you've been out of the artist part for so long, and it's a new generation of all these artists, you kind of... You lose your way.

Lose your way a little bit. And, you know, she put the battery in his back, and he was like, I want to do it. And so he hit me, and he was like, yo, can you produce this for me? Produce this with me. So... One of the first sessions that we had was SZA. Oh, to have her on Girls Night Out. Yeah. We did two songs. I did a song with D-Mile. And then I did, me and Leon did the Snooze one. And, you know, SZA wrote it in 10 minutes. It was a freestyle. Yeah. The whole thing. Like, you know, we did the track and she wrote the song in like 10 minutes. And so didn't hear anything. I went in and brought Kehlani on the album. We did the Ella stuff and all the other joints or whatever.

So your first time hearing it, though, from the top line, the lyric and melody side of it, though, when she freestyles this record, do you feel any different?

Be honest. Did you feel any different? Did you just like, yeah, it's cool. It's a great record. All right, cool. Next thing. I think the thing that I remember telling Kenny and Leon was that I felt that it was her first love song. Ah. That's what I felt. Now, I'm not super versed in the old back catalog. But to you.

But to me, it felt like it was her first love song. And it was almost kind of like it was different for her. Because all the stuff that I remember her doing was very different. It was more attitude or more introspective. This was just a straight up and down love song. And I was like, If booed up, touched people, it's going to fuck people up. Yeah, yeah.

The thing about that is, with her, you just never know when stuff is going to come out. Because she goes and, you know. That's how she feels. She goes and does her thing. And so what actually got the record to go was her engineer at the time, who's a massive producer now, Rob Beisel. He did Kill Bill and majority of the records with Carter Lang on this SOS album. He was my neighbor. He lived like down the street from me. So he lived in Inglewood. And so LA, LA. Yeah. And so we just, he was just the engineer though. We didn't know that he was had tracks that she was cutting too. Cause none SOS didn't exist yet. It was just, yeah. You know, she just was making music. And so Rob came to my crib and we were in the back. I had a

studio that I had built and, uh, we were just kicking it and I pulled up tunes and I was like, yo, like, something's got to happen with this. He was like, dude, song so good. He had never heard it. He heard it. He cut the demo, but it was just kind of reminder. She cuts the bajillion records. You know what I'm saying?

And so he was like, give me the files. I'll make sure she hears it again. So he put it on loop and, uh, she had forgot about the song and she was like, when did I do this? Oh shit. She's like, it's so good. She recut it. She fixed a little, little bits and pieces here and there. And, uh, Yeah, maybe like eight months later it came out. Because it was a surprise drop. Nobody knew it was coming out. TDE? Yeah, they just... They work how they work. Yeah.

So that was crazy. And then you won your first Grammy.

Yeah. How did that feel? It felt cool. I don't know. I think when you're in the moment, you know, it was cool to win with Leon. That's my boy. Did you take your whole family to the show? Yeah, I did. I took my whole family to the show. They charge a lot of money for them tickets, don't they? You know, well, yeah, for my mom and dad. They still got to buy some tickets. They give you one extra one. But yeah, they charge an arm and leg. But it was worth it. Absolutely.

And that was kind of crazy because usually R & B is never telecast. It's never on a live show. It's usually the show before. So when they were like, yeah, your stuff is going to be, your category is going to be on TV. So we're actually pushing it to the 5 p.m. Yeah. Oh, fuck. You changed your outfit?

Did you get a different outfit because you're not going to be on TV? No, I didn't change my outfit. Actually, them niggas didn't let us on stage. Oh, you didn't go on stage? We didn't go on stage that time. But I went on stage a second time. Because you do have a second time. We're going to get to that.

We're going to get to that. Yeah, but it was a lot going on. So we just, you know, me and Leon hugged and we celebrated and we went backstage and we took our joints.

Does the Grammy take the fee up? Did you have that conversation? Did y'all have that conversation? Like, you nigga, we won a Grammy, bro.

I think it just naturally, it is. Yeah. We didn't have a conversation. No, just not.

Yeah. I ain't never won a Grammy. I'm having a bad Joe moment. Yeah.

Today's price is not yesterday's price. Yesterday's price is not today's price. I haven't held a nigga. Sue me. You know what I mean? But I'm going up. Yeah. I'm going up. Yeah. Yeah. We, I just, you know, I think, it just naturally happens. Yeah. Yeah, it just naturally happens. I felt like she went from.

Sold-out theaters to sold-out arenas to being on a stadium tour in a.

Matter of like, bop, bop, bop, between these like... Bro, she did Madison Square Garden. Between like 18 months. It just seemed like it's the world... Nigga, the song came out in December. She did Madison Square Garden in March. Wow. Because I was in New York. I flew out to New York for the show. Yeah. Because at that time, I was still SVP at Aristid. Okay. So I was working at Aristid. And when that record came out, I was at Aristid for like five years. So, you know, I, and our office was in New York. So I went out there and I saw, I remember we had signed Lola Brooke and had the Don't Play With It record.

Lola had her first performance at Barclays Center. And I hopped on the train and went all the way down to Madison Square Garden to catch SZA. Were you living in L.A. when you were working for Airstream? Yeah. You moved out there, too. No, I was just out there all the time. And you didn't, like, officially live in New York? No, no, I didn't officially live in New York. Okay, okay.

You were just out there? Just out there, yeah. But it was crazy to see. I didn't know you there for five years. Yeah. Damn, time be flying, bro. Time be flying. What artists did you sign when you had Airstar? We had Lola. We had Paul Russell, who had the Lil Booth thing record. Okay. We had this girl, Iman, who was really, really dope. But, you know, they were a new label. And I think they were just trying to figure out how... Who was the president at that time?

It was David Massey, who's an amazing mentor and an amazing guy. But, you know, he's a pop guy. And I think that when you have Urban X, it's... There's a disconnect. There's a disconnect. It can be a little bit of a disconnect. It's a different process in our genre. Like, so when we look at the artists that we, we, we, we look at as, you know, the R & B heavy hitters now, like the SZA's and the Kehlani's and the Leon's, right? Like it took 10 years. It did.

For each one of these artists to get to where they're at. 10 plus years, right? So because I think the music feeds a soul, it being soul music, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a sense of authenticity that you have to have and have to develop over time to be, You know, at the highest level. And sometimes I think on a pop side, it's just a little bit less patient, you know, for that process when you're a new label. And then also it was like during that time when I started there was 2020, 2020, 2020 was a pandemic. And the metrics of what you're signing and how you're navigating was different. At first I started my job there. It was, you know, what's going viral, what's going viral, what's going viral. So you're chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing, chasing.

then everything gets inflated. Now they're like, find a new thing before it goes viral. So by that, when I was exiting, it was all about finding a new, new and developing, which it should have been that all the way along, all the way, you know, from the beginning, but you.

Know, how'd you enjoy or not enjoy your experience as, um, label executive.

I enjoyed it because it taught me how artists view, label executives. Oh, you didn't.

Know?

Because, I mean, the executives that I had in my vicinity were people that were also musically inclined, like an L.A. Reid or a Babyface. So their interaction was just a little bit different with artists than it was. Even Wendy Goldstein. I remember Wendy coming in being like, I got this kid, Abel, and I put him in with this guy named Max Martin, and they did this song. It's like Michael Jackson. It's called Can't Feel My Face. And she played it, and it was just a demo version of it. And we were like, what the fuck? But Wendy's a winner. And so I didn't see the back and forth a lot that people were going through. You know what I'm saying?

It was like coming and working with somebody like Ariana, for the most part during that process, it was really what she said went when it came with records. If she loved something, it was coming out. So, you know, we weren't really like... We had a different type of power. We had a different type of power, you know? So we didn't really understand that portion. I did learn quickly that like, yo, like, you know, teams, management is so important. Right.

You know what I'm saying?

Because I think from the executive side too, you find yourself being all.

Everything. You're definitely part of the team. Yeah.

You're helping with management. If management is not that good, somehow you end up being the manager.

Yeah. Even though you're not being paid to be. Bro, we was doing everything. So, you know, it was just one of those things where, It just taught me that you got to be everything, and that's just part of the game. Yeah, to get it across the finish line. To get it across the finish line. And I was the only music man in the building, besides Massey. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I was the only person that could really speak the language. So the thing that I did really pick up is that the artists have to want it. It's like a child. It's like, if you got a child and the child wants to be great, I could take you as far as you want to go. You know what I'm saying? But if you want to fucking sit on the couch and play

video games, because... You got to look. It's not going to get no better. Yeah. It's not going to get better. You know, and at the end of the day, it's like, dad is rich. You're not rich. So, you know, you got to get your ass up and work. So I think sometimes it's just, it's hard to put that motivation, even if somebody is talented or if they are having a run. And I always compare it to sports. You know what I'm saying? You're a basketball guy. You know, like the first thing you do, whether you win or lose in a game, no matter what level you're at, you're watching film. Where did I do the best? Where did I fuck up? Where are they taking advantage of us?

You got to study.

I'm a name drop because I think she's amazing and so great. But I was having that conversation with Kelly Rowland the other night. And, you know, Kelly comes from real artist development. You know, they they're going to practice until it's right.

Yeah. And but they're also very well studied. Yes.

And I was telling her that that's one of my issues with. the newer generation of artists that I personally meet, not even just on some, like me just seeing it from across the room. No, me like having conversations and been like, wait, so you never studied this.

So you don't, you know what I mean?

Like you want to do this, but you don't really, you haven't fully jumped in to learn as much as you possibly can about the type of artist you're trying to be.

Yeah. Cause somebody has been you before you. Going back to our conversation earlier, where i was making the comments of kaylani being a new tlc yeah or ariana being a new mariah carey you know from from my eyes i was a big history buff i love music i grew up on hearing all kinds of music so everybody's been even michael jackson fred astaire james brown like if michael had people that he emulated and just did it better or took it up to another level there's no fucking excuse and you are are an idiot if you think that you're inventing something.

Right When you talk to the OGs, right? You talk to the Charlie Wilsons. You talk to the Jeffrey Osborns. And a lot of these guys who were on the road with Mike. And they're like, oh, Mike would sneak to our dressing room.

Yeah, for sure.

And ask as many questions as he could. Or he would be on the side of the stage just watching.

Bro, you know who does that shit too well? And I don't think people talk about it enough. Who's that? Bruno Mars. Oh, my God. Like, even when you look at something that's like... Not too high on his horse to be a fan. Bruno will take shit. Like, remember, don't believe me, just watch. Of course. Bro, the fact that he's able to sample Trinidad and James. Yeah. Don't believe me, just watch. Nigga, nigga, nigga. And then turn it into instrumentation. Don't believe me. It's like, it's ingenious. Yeah, it is. But he's studying. Yeah. He's studying shit that's not even... You know what I'm saying? Like, that's some Michael Jackson shit. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, because I think that's a deeper conversation about some of the other races that have studied R & B music and even other places in the world that have studied R & B music the way that they have. And, you know, some people have their issues with it. Like, oh, they just take from this, that, and the other. I'm like, but I'm appreciative of how well studied they are yeah yeah because some of this you know you hear certain notes you hear certain inflections and you're like oh that it's not easy to learn it's not they spent.

Hours and hours and hours learning that and.

You gotta respect that yeah anybody that puts in the work you can't just throw away they work as if it's so what why because they're not black or they're not this or they're not that it's like that's actually great still though yeah and the only way it got great is that they studied it yeah and practiced it yeah And to me, I'm hoping and I'm hopeful that more of our young black artists really get in a study bag and start watching film.

You know what I mean? I tell every young artist that I meet, I'm like, now it's extremely available to you.

Back then, we had to try to figure out how to get the Motown 25 tape and all this other shit. And if I can get some footage of James Brown or You know what I mean? Or DeBarge and seeing how they did it. Now it's like, just go to YouTube.

You did DeBarge because your hair curly. Come on, man. This shit from the womb. You know what I mean? Ain't no S-curl. What?

Came out like this. They said they woke up like this. No, I came out like this. That's a difference.

It's different. You know what I mean?

Because you could have been asleep with a do-rag on. So you woke up like it. No, I came out the womb.

You know what I mean? Different. Different. Yeah. Those things to me are important. Yeah. And it's important to our future in this game. It is. It is. It's so important. And what we will mean to this thing. Yeah. I mean, like when people talk about.

The greats of, you know, the last generation and now, and you think of a Jasmine Sullivan.

Yeah.

You don't get to that vocally without studying. You don't get to a Chris Brown level. Without studying the way he studied the game.

You know what I mean?

That's why there are people who are arguing.

Yeah. Is he on the level or is he higher than Mike? Yeah. Just that in itself. I know that, brother. You know that, brother. For him, that is like, oh, nigga, like, this is it.

Because he knows how much work he's put in and studied to get to that conversation. Yeah.

That is not a conversation that everybody gets thrown into. No, no, no, no, no. Not at all. It's just not. You know what I mean?

So that in itself just tells you, oh, he's taking it to a different level.

Yeah.

He's taking it to a different level, man, and he's fully locked in. Let's get to your next friend.

Mm-hmm. To fold it, bro. Yeah.

But even before we get to fold it, though, and this is something I want to spotlight and highlight.

Bro, you executive produced the album, though. Yeah. That is not easy. No. No, it's not. That is not easy, bro. Yeah.

What was the process of the Kehlani album? Because obviously, you know, she had already been a star.

Yep. She'd already been in the game.

Obviously, she's your homegirl from back that I know that this was the first time that y'all were. coming together for you to A & R an EP.

Yeah. How did that conversation even happen? So two things, and this is why keeping your head down and working is so important. David Massey retired and he sat me down. This is in March, 2025. And he said, Hey, I'm leaving. We're shrinking on a company. You know what I'm saying? So I believe in you. I think you're bigger than this.

I think you got to do great. You know, he's, He gives you the most amazing prep speech. But you're fired. Basically, he's like, your department is going to be closed. Damn, I'm packing my shit again. So I'm like, you know, I'm not tripping because I had the biggest record over the fucking past 10 years. So I'm like, whatever. As you're an executive. As I'm an executive. But I'm like, all right, I got something to prove. And she's coming off of some stuff that she was dealing with that she has something to prove. Yeah. And, um, Shout out Lon Ray. Shout out Lon Ray. Shout out Lou. Lon Ray called me two days after I had the conversation with Massey. She was like, hey, because I did After Hours for Kehlani, which was the big record off the album,

that crash album that she put out. And the album was like eclectic and it didn't perform. But After Hours was a big record for her. And so she said, hey, like, you know, would you mind coming in and doing something with Kehlani? But what's crazy about that is about Kehlani, you know, especially young Kehlani, she'll hit you and be like, yo, let's do a whole album and then disappear. Yeah. but she had hit me maybe four or five months before and was like yo that's how she hits me about the podcast yeah you know.

Let's do my episode come do the podcast girl let's do my episode but she just disappears but you know she's like she's doing everything she's a tourist she's just everywhere long story short Lanre's like hey you know Kay mentioned it whatever whatever do you wanna is this something that you be open to and I'm like fuck yeah because my thing is like it goes back to the mentality that I had with Kenny in LA which is like you got to make your own shit crack.

Right. You know what I'm saying? And she's somebody that, not that niggas really counted out, but kind of, you know what I'm saying? She's had her ups and downs. She's had her ups and downs. So I just always knew she was great. And my conversation, my conversation with her will always be, you scared of being successful for 10 years. There's footage. She got behind the scenes footage of it. And you know, I would say she's just scared of being, you scared of getting the big joints.

You scared of getting the big joints. And we had the conversation when they set it up. And, um, She said, I'm ready to do this. I really want to do this. I got nothing to lose. I really want to do this. Let's do it. And literally my last day of Arista, I signed my deal to do her stuff. And then maybe like, wow. Yeah. And then the rest is history.

So with her, you need to get fired more, bro. I need to get fired more. This happens, bro. That's crazy. It's crazy. Wow. You know, we just had a real conversation. Were you getting two checks? Because you still get your... You get your severance and all that too, yeah? Did some backyard work. Yeah. That's what did it. I got to get it. Yeah. Did the stairs and the landscape.

Japanese doors and some cool shit. And this is what we call the severance hall. The severance hall. The severance hall. Okay, I'm... Programming, clocking, all of it. But yeah, man, and the process of it was really easy. I mean, the reality of it was like, look, here's my process. I want big records and I want to do R & B the right way.

I feel like the experimental stuff is cool, but we both kind of came to the consensus that you are an R & B artist. That is what you are. Those are the roots. So I said, let's just do what everybody's not doing and just get back to the roots of it. Intentional about songwriting, like hammering, being under Babyface and Tony It's like, bro, you go through like five, six drafts of songs until you get it right. You know what I'm saying? Different versions, different this, different, because Kenny's always challenging. And sometimes you might go back to version three or version two, maybe even version one, but at least you hammered it until you saw all options you could see. You know what I'm saying? You challenge yourself.

And we just kind of had a strict program and we got in, we got busy and we went in with people that, you know, were amazing mentors and amazing guiding lights. Like, you know, facing Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Antonio Dixon, Rich Harrison, Dre, Dre Harris, and we had a very good core of people like Dixon, Darius Dixon, who's, you know, amazing songwriter. Amazing. Singer, songwriter, all of it.

And we didn't really venture out of our little huddle, you know what I'm saying, our little group. You know, I saw it with my own eyes. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just coming over there and sitting with y'all, man, and, you know, being a fly on the wall. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was funny because I think, I think K was like, You going to chime in? I'm like, no.

I'm just here to support and to see what y'all doing and really salute y'all.

And that's the response that I wanted. I just wanted to make y'all niggas proud. The people that I looked up to, the people that poured into me, whether it was indirectly or directly, whatever music, you know, the Tanks, the Harvey and Damon's, the Tony's, the Babyface, the people that actually did that stuff. that gave us the soundtracks of our lives and really just kind of came together. Amazing, bro. Yeah. Amazing.

I remember the first time I heard Fold, I'm like, finally. Yeah. That's what I said to myself. Yeah. I was just like, finally. Yeah. Because I always knew. Yeah. I always knew that it was there.

I always knew, you know, that these were the type of records that she deserved.

Yeah. That's the word. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That she deserved to have and I'm like, oh, it's a different conversation now.

Yeah. You know what I mean? All the underdog shit. Yeah.

She's not no underdog no more. You know what I mean? She is front facing now. I'm here. I have a smash. But that's the tough thing about it. That when you're the underdog so much.

You start buying into it. You start buying into it. You start buying into it. You start buying into it for sure. You start celebrating being that. When it comes to the award stuff, her humility level is very high. the war shows never really showed her love. So it's kind of like, you know, I don't, I don't really know if they can fuck with me like that. And I said, when you get that motherfucking in your hand.

So when you talk about Grammy wins, that means something, not that snooze didn't mean anything. Cause it was, it was, it was amazing when with my brother and when with, with Kenny, you know what I'm saying? With face. But when you do some shit and you, you do just dolo with your, with your, with your girl, your sister, it's a different thing. Because you are the underdogs. And when you walk on that stage, it's vindication. It's like, no, we did what niggas said would never happen. Right. You know what I'm saying? Did you cry in the car? No, I didn't cry in the car. Come on, dog. Actually, I was sick, bro. I got the flu or something.

That's what you say you were sick. So you were crying? I had the glasses on, man. That's why I'm sniffling. Because I'm sick. Because I'm sick. No, you're not.

Crying nigga yeah yeah boo hoo it's okay yeah it's okay you know what I mean like we gotta be able to walk in them tears of joy man because like bro this is not normal bro like it's not normal what this has become for you what this become for me and what we do like this is not normal man and I try to celebrate it as much as possible and I try to embrace all that comes with it yeah yeah you know what I mean yeah all that comes with it even the criticism that comes with it With things of when people are, you know, they like something, but they're like, oh, but if you just.

And it's so tough, I think, initially to hear that. Right?

Because it's just like, well, you don't do it or you haven't done it. People only comment about things that they're interested in.

Dude. And once you get to that space... Gotta let it fucking go. She's done an amazing job. Yeah. From what she used to be. Yeah, yeah. And just kind of let... Yeah, we've spoken about it. Yeah, just let it go. Because motherfuckers is always gonna... They gonna take what you say... Man, they're going to twist it. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. You can say, I love orange juice. They're going to go, what about apple juice? Don't fuck with apples. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I just said I love orange juice. Now you're an apple racist or something. Now they just make up some new shit. They make up some new shit. It's just crazy.

You're right.

And this is the price of, you know, of fame, I guess, and of success.

Price of success. Of success. You know what I mean? But you add fame on top of success. Yeah. That's not easy for people. You know what I mean? I've been running from fame for a long time. Yeah. I'm not ashamed to say that. Yeah.

Like I do not consider myself at all in that type of thing. Like, okay, maybe you've seen me somewhere and that's cool, but I don't consider to be a famous person.

I'm not pushing for fame. Give me the check because you got the famous checks though. Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes I get a famous check here and there. I do. I do get a famous check here and there, but it's just that that's a different responsibility. It is. You know, when I look at, My friends and family. Yeah. People I consider family that are famous. Yeah. That shit's tough, bro.

Can't do anything. That shit is tough. Constant microscope. Yeah. Can't have opinions that are. Yeah. You know. We are also very blessed. Yeah. You know, in our business. Yeah. People that are part of this and the successes. What's your thoughts on AI? I think that it's here. Ain't going nowhere. I think it's not going anywhere. I think that.

I don't like when people abuse it and try to pass it off as genuine works of art, especially when it comes to artists. Right. That's the thing where for me, where it's like, ah, as far as like tools to get ideas down or, you know, whatever the case may be, you know, I'm not going to crucify anybody for, for using it because it's, it's here, it's integrated. It's not like, you know, but I do think when you're trying to pass stuff off as like, an actual artist, so you're doing, you know, I am a strong black woman. It's like, I don't know if you heard that record. I have.

It's like, what the fuck, you know? It's tricky. So in saying that, do you think that Milli Vanilli should get their Grammy back? What did they win the Grammy for? Was it Best New Artist? Best Artist, I think. Best New Artist or song or something. Hey, they weren't singing at all. But they were performing it. I don't know, man.

I'm kind of torn. I would give them their Grammy back. That's probably why they're never going to let me run the Grammy. They're like, this nigga's hot. Bro, you get a Grammy. You get a Grammy. What you want to do Grammys for now? Oh, man. Oh, nigga, we turned up. But you know niggas walk around with fake Grammys up. Man.

I heard that. Yeah. You can go get a mate. It's crazy. You can go get a mate. I guess. Alibaba, baby. You can get a cramping of Alibaba. Yeah. Niggas be like, order one. Niggas be going to Alibaba. I'm going to order one. I've never ordered anything in my life. Don't drink no champagne out of it because it might rust. Well, I don't think you should drink. You know what? Actually, you know what?

I take that back because I drank Hennessy out of somebody's champagne. You know what? I ain't going to.

It happened. Yeah. It happened. It wasn't mine. Yeah. And I hope the Grammy was real.

Oh, shit.

I drank Hennessy out of a rusty fake Grammy, man. You got a stomachache, man. Oh, man. I'm from the hood by now. You know the shit we drank growing up? Oh, my God. Out the water holes. Grape drink. Grape juice. Grape drink. Grape drink, nigga. I get grape drink. If that don't make my stomach hurt. Nothing will. I put a little Robitussin on it. Oh, fuck, man. So, what's next, bro?

What's next? Man, just working, bro. In the AI world. What's next? In the AI world. No, no, I'm so kidding. In the AI world. Fuck with you. No, the next thing is I'm an executive music producer for the TV show Forever. Oh, shit. Yeah, season two. Oh, dope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's been kind of taking up my whole summer, man.

So we got that locked in. It just wrapped. And now it's going in a post, and we're going to be finishing up all the music touches and everything. But that's pretty cool. Call me once to do nothing. Yeah. You know, you got to take that over Netflix. Nope. Nope. It's you. I don't know that nigga. I know you.

But you know what you mean? I could have beatboxed on that. You've been dodging me on the podcast though. No, I haven't. Go back and look at the text. It's you. It ain't me. It's always you. For sure. For sure. That's dope, bro. Okay. So you, you working on that? Yeah. Are you excited about any new artists? Yeah. Come on, man.

Let's highlight some people, bro. Yeah. Even if you ain't did the deal yet. Don't give me that bullshit.

You don't want to say nobody name because you don't want nobody to outbid you.

Fuck that, bro. Shout him out, nigga. Who you like? Who's cracking, nigga? Who's cracking? You know who I was just in with that I think is really dope? It's Jordan Ward. Dope. I love Jordan's stuff. Yo. Yeah.

I just met Jordan Ward.

No idea. Introduce me to him.

Yeah.

And I fuck with that dude. Yeah. Yeah. Just on a human level. Yeah. Like, I really, really fuck with bro. I fuck with him.

And he told me, he's like, nigga, I watch all the shit. I watch all the shows. I watch all the episodes.

Jordan. So shout out to Jordan Ward because I'm sure he's going to be watching this one. Jordan Ward, Destin Conrad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out Destin. He's doing it for the young. Super dope. Is he signed through Kehlani? They had the same manager. Okay. Yeah, so David.

I know David manages both of them, but I didn't know if he was signed.

I don't know. I don't know what the inner workings of that are, but I know that David's the... Yeah. The glue. Yeah. But you know, she. And David's the reason she hasn't been on the show. I blame David. You know David, man. You know he's working, man. Yeah. They on tour, man. He trying to keep it all together, baby.

I know he is. I know he is. Yeah. Those two are amazing. Trying to think who else. I like Cleo Soul. I don't know if you consider her new, but. No, but just. Yeah.

I mean, even though she sell out crazy venues and the whole thing, but like. it's not one of those things where everybody knows your shit. And to me, everybody should know.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's incredible. Incredible. Incredible, bro. Yeah. I mean, and I would love for you to come on the show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But those are like, that's what you up on right now. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Do you see a shift at all? And where we're going in R & B music? Yes. Yes. I think that the intentionality with records, I mean, you see it with Olivia Dean, you see it with Kay, you see it with Leon, you see it with where the songwriting is just, it's important. You just can't put together slop and put it out. It's focused on more now. Yeah, you have to. And I think it's weeding out a lot of people because it's back in the day, it was, it was a, I would say it was a more access to writers who were under the tutelage of other

writers that, We're great writers. Right. You know what I'm saying? I think that somewhere along the line, when it became more hip hop focused, we kind of lost our way when it came with the intentionality and the creativeness on concepts. And like, you know, just I remember when like the Clutch was doing their thing and you get records like Icebox or you get records that were like just innovative concepts. Yeah.

That was kind of lost form. I think it's coming back now. Or people are challenging each other. Yeah, they're challenging each other. You know what I'm saying? Versus like, oh, yeah.

The do-it-yourself era has been tricky. It gets tricky, bro, when you just, you know, you meet the new writer who you want to help or the new artist you really want to help.

It's like, I know I write all my own stuff. It's like.

This whole vibe thing. I'm going to need you to really write a real story. I'm going to need a real top line.

I'm tired of the vibes. Or the over melody. The over melody. I was having this conversation on a panel where for me, Brandon's way was a hub. Yeah. So you had so many people that came in and out of that studio to where you can challenge each other, even from my generation to your generation to, you know, to probably even before, right? Like where, you know, everybody was just challenging each other. And I think now that everybody's so isolated in their rooms working, it's harder to really kind of get that sparring out. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, I think what we're missing is creative spaces that kids can kind of, you know, the studios. Community. Community.

Even going back to me saying when I came by the house, man, and seeing, you know, four or five people writers producers engineers artists the whole thing yeah together yeah working together in one room as with a clear vision humans instead of like oh yeah we're gonna send this to such and such over in germany he gonna do the drums and then we're gonna send this over this guy and out in the middle of nowhere alabama yeah he gonna play a guitar lick and then we're gonna send it to 12 writers and then we're gonna see.

What we got man you know what we would do me and me and k would watch um Pharrell and Chad and, and Justin in the studio, footage of the clutch and footage, just all these, just people making records like this in the studio together. You know what I'm saying? Just, just working and working, doing stuff because those were the classic records came from. Like inspiration could come from you, come from you, you, me, wherever. And, and, and sometimes it's just about who can catch it in the lightning in a bottle. And then, you know, who else could add they shit in there? So collaboration, all these, great records that we love, they come from collaboration.

That's the thing though. It's still collaborative when these young creatives do that. I'm an advocate for getting in the room.

Gotta get in the room. Just, I want them to start getting in the rooms together more. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's a different type of magic that's made. Yeah. When you're right there. Yeah. It just is. It just is, bro. So. Yeah. Well, I got you here, brother. Yeah. Now I need your inspirations. Yeah.

I need, I need the things and the people. The songs, the voices that have gotten you to this point in your career, hit records and, you know, amazing M4s.

You still got one? No, no. Got rid of it? Got rid of it. Okay.

You ain't do the ludicrousness, just keep it in some parking lot on your West Wing?

No, no. Okay. All right. All right. What we got for him, baby?

Top right.

Your top five. Yeah. This is crazy. Top five. Your top five. R & B singers. R & B songs. Yeah. R & B songs.

Before you go.

They're on the show. Everybody want to know. Your top five. Insane. That guy's amazing. All right. We need to know your top five R & B singers. Uh-huh. Your top five R & B songs. Ah, okay. Let's go. Singers. Singers going to be, number one, Michael Jackson. Okay. Number two is going to be Charlie Wilson. Okay. And I would say they're probably close for me because Charlie is like one of my favorite singers. Yeah. Got to do Whitney.

Beyonce up there. And... Hmm. Fifth, I'm going to have to give it to my boy, Mario.

Code yeah mario's code yeah i like that top five okay top five r & b songs.

Baby be mine remember the time okay i'm bending knee okay when can i see you again yeah Oh, you a lover boy. Oh yeah, for sure. All day. Gives me in trouble. Fifth one. Man, I might have to go with maybe when I see you. Yeah. When I see you, bro. Yeah. And it's a hood record too. Yeah. It wasn't supposed to be, but you know what? It found its life. It found its life. Okay. All right.

Now I need you to build.

Your ultimate R & B superstar superhero Voltron.

Oh, shit. We're going to go with the voice.

We're going to go with the performance style.

We're going to go with the styling, the clothes. We're going to go with the passion.

And since you are an amazing producer, we're going to go with who's going to produce for this artist.

So we're going to start with the voice. Gotta go with Charlie. Charlie's the voice. Yeah. Uptempo. Yeah. Mid-tempo. Yeah. Ballad. Anything. Power. Yeah. Tone. Yeah. Everything. Okay. Charlie Wilson. Uwe. Performance style. Michael. Charlie. Oh, my God. Your Charlie and Michaels are going crazy, bro. Who got the drip? The style. I'm going to have to do the style I kind of swag to. I'm going to have to do Bobby Brown. Yeah. Gumby. And Prime. Gumby.

Prime Bobby. Gumby Bobby Brown. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ghostbusters, Bobby Brown.

Yeah.

All right. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Who got the passion? You know what? I'm about to go with Chris, bro.

Chris look like he gonna sing a song and fight and fight for.

The song and fight for the... I knew he's got a chip on his shoulder. Fight for love. All the man. It dances hard. Yeah. Extremely passionate, bro. And really, really loves what he does. Yeah. Really loves what he does. Okay, I love that. Who's the producer?

Who you calling if you're like, all right, because now you put your executive hat on?

Quincy. Can't go wrong. Can't go wrong, bro. What? Can't go wrong. I feel like he's the only one that can control all them niggas.

He's going to tell all their story later on.

You know, man, that motherfucker was crazy. Michael, Charlie. Chris Brown. He's going to fall asleep. Did you ever meet Quincy? Yeah. Wake up, Quincy, wake up. Yeah. I wasn't sleeping in my house.

I got my own funny Quincy story, man, that I cannot tell publicly.

That is amazing. He did what, Quincy? No. Yeah, I had one of those. I didn't even know him. That was like my first time meeting him. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. He hit me with some did you knows. Did you know that? I didn't. Thanks, Quincy. That's crazy. That's crazy. All right, man. We got one more segment before I let you out of here. Yeah. Stop. One more time.

I knew you'd know this part of the show was coming.

Oh, yeah.

You know, and I hope you prepared.

Yourself, brother. Because we are at a very important segment where you tell us a story. Funny or fucked up. Or funny and fucked up.

The only rule to the game is the nigga with 12 names, Chris Van Riddick times Sir Lancelot.

Sir Lancelot. Can't say no name. All right. For sure. For sure. Damn. All right. So I'm fresh out of high school. Okay. No placements yet. Probably had like $ 50 in my account. Maybe $ 35. Small set of $ 35. We probably went to like California Chicken Cafe or something. That's $ 15 for sure. So we come to the studio. I'm there.

It's in the room. You can't say no name. No names at all. No. Oh, okay. So we at the studio. And this guy is there. It's a room of legends. But he's not important to the story. Whatever. So a bunch of people and legends in the room. It's a writing session happening. They call me in to go do the writing session. The artist shows up mad late. Oh, like you today. Nah, later. You're an artist. Later than that.

Later than that. Because. I just need your ass back. Because he was arguing with somebody in the hallway about the robots taking over his role in some film he was doing. Okay. You know, so he was going off and he was just waiting. So the other producers, the big dog producers in the room just leave. They leave me in there by myself. So he come in. I'm thinking we finna get to work. And he's like, Hey man, can you give me a ride home? And I'm like, as soon as he walk in, as soon as he walk in, I'm like, I'm out of here. And you, I need you to take me home. Yeah, like, ride home.

Do you even know him yet? No. Oh, this is great. No. Okay. No, not at all. Like, you know, he from the city, so, like, you know, kind of, yeah, like, niggas looked up to him, like, oh, yeah, you know. But we get in the car. I'm like, all right, bro, for sure. Cool. Maybe I could play, because in my mind, I'm calculating. I'm like, I could play this nigga some demos. Demos, yeah. So, you know, I go to play him some demos. Uh-huh. And the nigga turned the radio off. He treated you like an Uber?

Like an Uber, nigga. When they ask you if you want to talk, are you on music or not? Nigga makes a phone call. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, he finally got off the phone. And he started asking me where I'm from. My mom stayed in Gardena, which is this particular artist from the city over, Compton. Yeah. Watts. Watts. And he like, oh, yeah, you from Gardena? Okay, okay, yeah. Okay, for sure, for sure.

So you from the city? Okay. He's like, give me your phone. I want to put you on something. I'm like, all right, cool. So I'm like thinking nigga going to pull up like YouTube or something, some inspirational video or something. The nigga buys his book. On my phone. With my car. This nigga's diabolical. Nigga didn't ask me that. I'm a kid, bro. Oh, you need that money. I'm a kid, bro. I need that money, bro. But you need it. Nigga sent my shit negative, bro. Not only did he buy the book, but he bought the bonus edition that comes with the album.

And the nigga's book, I think, was called, like.

Nigga sent my.

Shit in the red. I'm like, how am I going to eat tomorrow? Oh, my God. Yeah. So, you know, he pat me on the back. I dropped off at the joint. No demos played. I think his book was red when I think about it. Account negative. I'm like, I don't know what to do. I got like a little bit of gas left in my tank. I'm just, you know. But this book fed you. This book? Fuck that book. Fuck that book, nigga. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

To this day. Have you ever Did you see him again? Yeah. He tried to get in the video we was shooting. I was like, nah, nigga, you can't be in.

This video.

Nigga, I held all that for like 15 years, bro. Oh, bro. Oh, man. This is fucking... It's so funny. But, you know, it showed me that even when you're at the highest of your level, man, you still got to hustle. It fed you. Every dollar counts. It fed you, bro. I don't think you write these records that you've written without that experience. No, not at all. Oh, man. Shout out to that brother.

Yeah.

Whoever he is. I don't know if you remember that shit. But yeah, I remember it. I was like, oh, man. This is crazy. Oh, tears of joy. Nigga, what's your password? I'm thinking nigga got locked out. He's trying to go on YouTube. Nigga's buying the book. Buying your book. And then I was like.

He needs your password to buy the book.

I can't snatch the phone. Because he won't listen to my demos. And then he never listens to the demos. Never listens to the demos. Did you read the book? No. I'm Jay Valentine. This is Christmas. Oh my God, man, bro. Yeah, this has been incredible. Appreciate you. That is a great story. Appreciate you. And somebody's going to figure out who that was.

I don't have a lot of clues.

But I ain't saying no name man but no on a serious note man thank you bro but just not even for being here today for being who you are I appreciate you bro you know what I mean and being who you are in the business and as a person cause I've known you for a while and your humility and your joy and love for the game is infectious you know what I mean you don't take yourself too serious You know you're gifted.

You know you're talented. But it's not like you don't wear that on your sleeve. Yeah.

And I always appreciate that when I really meet really talented people who understand that I don't got to be an asshole.

Yeah. I can still have fun, man. I can still buy books. Yeah. Niggas that I'm trying to get my demo to. And I can't eat. Like, niggas great. Yeah. That sums your whole life up to me. I know, man.

Cause also I know how bad we all want to have our chance in this and our success and our time. And even you telling me the story, I put myself in your, in your shoes.

Yeah. I probably would have fucked up my whole career.

Cause I would have tried to fight the nigga in the passenger seat.

And I gotta be better. Yeah. But I love that you stay patient. Yeah.

And that you just like, fuck bro. And, I'm sure this person knows that they did that. You owe him, what, $ 20, $ 25?

No, it was a bonus edition. $ 45. $ 45 for a young fella who don't got it is crazy. Inflation. When you see it, bro, just give my young partner $ 1, 000, bro. And it'd be cool. It'll be cool, but you.

Got to give my guy a stack, bro.

You have to. You have to. But no, bro. On a serious note, thank you. No, thank y'all, man. I appreciate y'all for what y'all doing with this platform, man. It's so important. This is what it's for. It's like FUBU. It's for us by us. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. For you, y'all. Hey, man. Shout out FUBU, though. Shout out FUBU. It's crazy. Like I said before, I'm Jay Valentine.

It's the R.B. Money Podcast. This is the good brother, Chris Riddick Tine. Appreciate you. I'll see y'all next week.

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