#Ep54 - Ingvild Kaspersen | Two-Time CCC Champion & Balancing a Medical Career with Trail Running

0:27 Hello, welcome back to the Run Through Trails Podcast. My name is Beth, and I'm your host, and today we have got Yingerbild with us after an incredible first place finish at CCC. She came second at KiamT at the start of the year in the hundred-mile distance at UTMB, then went on to do Western State and now came first at CCC, becoming the first woman to ever win CCC twice after a win in 2023.

0:54 She's an Addivesterics athlete, also a doctor, and just a really exciting person that I can't wait to interview. How are you? Um, good. Thank you.

1:04 Thank you for the introduction. That was very nice.

1:06 And yeah, I'm happy to be here. Now I'm so excited for this conversation. Like you have had an amazing year, and I can't wait to unpack it all. So to start things off, why trail running? Ooh, that's a very good question.

1:20 That's a big one. Um I think it's just as simple as a passion. I being able to run in the uh in the mountains, in the landscape and on the trails that we're running in. It's just it's not much else that gives the same pleasure and the same happiness. And it's just like a fulfilling uh activity. Like it gives me purpose and it gives me happiness.

1:51 The landscapes are just stunning, and like you said, I don't think there's any other sport that you get to explore such incredible spaces. And it's amazing how every trail is just so different and so unique, and yeah, the adventure side is incredible.

2:04 Yeah, and also the challenge it takes you, um, or the challenge it gives you, uh what you need to overcome physically and mentally to be able to run through those courses and on these trails. Um, it's very exciting. Yeah, amazing. How did you get into trail running? I'm from Trumse, which is far north in Norway.

2:31 Um, so I grew up with the mountains. I've been out on the mountains since I was a kid. Um, but my first Sky Race was Trumse Sky Race, uh, which uh Killian and Emily were arranging in 2014. That was my first one. And I I just remember running that thinking, ah, this is what I want to do. Like, this is so much fun.

2:56 No, that's incredible.

2:58 Are the technic are the trails by you quite technical? Yeah, um, especially up there. Yeah. I've heard Norway is I've never personally been, but it's a very technical area, and well, it's got a sky running race, so that just says it all, but it's lots of big steep climbs from what I know. But this the landscapes look incredible.

3:17 Yeah, and especially in that way that you can run from the sea. Yeah, like you run from sea level to the summit, and um you're able to run on these small islands, which is basically a mountain in the sea. Uh, so that's what's super special about Norway. It's wild and technical, and you can run from sea to summit.

3:40 No, I think I think Norway is actually really under the radar. Like everyone goes to obviously places like Chamonix, France, the Alps. But when I've seen videos of it, I'm like, why are more people not going to Norway? Like, it actually looks like the trails look incredible.

3:53 Yeah, um, maybe the weather, the conditions here. I've been running in rain the whole summer.

4:02 Oh, even the UK summer's not being that bad. So you obviously had an amazing day at CCC, and it was an incredible race to watch. Like, we'll unpack it more in a minute. But how did you actually feel going into the race?

4:16 I had a DNF in Western States, a late DNF. Um, I think it was like 98 miles or something.

4:26 Yeah, when I saw that, I was like, that is very close to the end to DNF. Like, what happened? I know, but I was struggling for a while.

4:34 Like I I had a low around Michigan Bluff. Um, it's around 90k, and then I was able to pick it up a little, but then it was just going down from I would say like Forest Hill. Um, I was already suffering, and uh I wanted to push and finish, but in the end I I just didn't see the point. Like I was I was so low in energy and I could barely move my feet.

5:08 I could not like I was just walking. It didn't give me any pleasure anymore. Um, so yeah, I just I think I just bonked. Um and that was very rough. Like I put a lot of effort and energy and thoughts into Western states. Uh it meant a lot for me to do well in that race. Um, so I was pretty low after that, like both mentally and physically.

5:33 Um, it took time to recover and to start training again. Didn't feel good in training, uh, didn't even know if I was able to run another 100k. Um, but I took my chances. Um, I had low expectations, and I decided, I think it was like two or three weeks before the race, that I'm I'm gonna give this a try.

5:56 Like I just I wanna do it. Um so I didn't have the best build-up for CCC, but maybe that also caused me to relax more, have a lot uh less pressure on myself, and to simply enjoy it more. Um I was more back to my roots of why am I doing this? Like, why do I bother to do another race after Western States?

6:24 It wasn't because of the competition, it wasn't because of the performance, it was because I love trail running, I love to run in shamani, I love to be around these people, um, to be a part of this race. Uh, it's my adventure. And I was just honestly, I was just really, really excited to run, to run it, to run the course.

6:49 Not to race it, but to run it like my own long run.

6:54 Yeah. Um, and that is honestly like the most like beautiful thing to hear because I think it is easy to get caught up racing, and sometimes if you look back and told yourself at Western States when you DNF'd what was gonna happen in the future, like in that moment you feel like it's rock bottom. But actually, sometimes everything happens for a reason.

7:11 Like, yeah, it wasn't great in that moment, but if you hadn't maybe taken the pressure off and you hadn't had that time to reflect and really find your why again, then these great things wouldn't have happened. And even telling yourself on the start line that of CCC, like you're gonna win it today, like that would have been such a big surprise.

7:29 But I think sometimes when you go in with low expectations and then you have a lovely surprise, it feels even better, I imagine, the win.

7:36 Yeah, for sure. I I was not expecting it at all. Like it was not in my thoughts. I was hoping maybe I could do like top 10, but I was not expecting to uh yeah, to be on top that day. Uh so I was very happy. Like I it's not like I underestimate my own um or maybe I do, but uh I know that if I'm happy uh if I have a good training block and if I feel prepared and ready, like I feel like I have something to to do there.

8:08 Like I feel still feel like I'm um I'm able to do good results uh to podium in a big race like that, but I didn't expect it in this race. I feel like I maybe I just had low self-esteem after Western States and uh the training block in between, and I just didn't believe in myself enough to to believe that I was able to win.

8:33 Um and that makes me even more proud, I think, um to just realize that um it's possible and that I'm uh yeah, that I'm good enough and it gives a big motivation and boost in my self-esteem.

9:00 No, I love that. And trail running just is so powerful how much it changes you as a person. Like CCC was a big adventure. There was the course change the night before, course change in the race. How did you kind of cope with that and how were you kind of mentally preparing yourself to get out on that course with the course changes?

9:18 Uh I didn't care too much about the course changes. Like I I thought they're they're doing their best to still have the race and to make it as safe as possible for us to be out there. If they're changing the course, we just have to to run the different the different course. So I wasn't really like it was fine.

9:42 I didn't pay too much, give the I didn't give it too much thoughts. Um I was staying in Comayer the night before with Tony. Um and we were just having a lovely time in this two-star hotel. We shared dinner in bed uh and breakfast in bed, and we heard the the rain outside, the thunder and lightning. Um and we were both just super calm and relaxed, and we both looked at this as an adventure, like we were excited to run.

10:20 And I think that also gave me a good energy into the race, like to spend time with Tony and to uh reflect my energy in her, like she was also calm and and yeah, it was it was super nice. Um, I felt like I had the best evening and morning before the race, and it helped towing the start line, feeling feeling calm, uh, feeling like I was going on an adventure, sharing the start line with some of my best friends.

10:50 Um, so I was just excited. Yeah, no, I think that's really amazing. And like a happy runner is the best kind of runner. So like it's amazing how much good energy and happy energy can power you through these kind of races. And it's so interesting how so many different athletes like approach, like some people, if they hear about a course change, like the distance got extended.

11:09 Like the race was meant to be around 100k, and the course change the night before made it 110. Some people like are just so nonchalant and they're just like, you know what, it is what it is, and I think that's the best mindset to have. And then some people quite stressed about it, so it's yeah, it's really interesting how different people kind of have different emotions with these changes.

11:28 Yeah, I did I just I'm trying to not stress about things I cannot do anything with, anyways. Uh, it just gives me more stress, which I have to deal with before I race, and I don't want that. So, and it's the same for everyone, like the course is the same for everyone. Uh, I just had to um replan my nutrition a little, knowing that I will be a little longer out there than originally planned.

11:53 But other than that, it was fine.

11:55 Yeah, it's the best way to be, to be fair, very calm. I honestly I think my favourite moment of UTMV because I was watching the live stream at the time was the moment that you passed Tony. Like, it was actually the most beautiful moment, and I just think like I just love women's sport because I'm not saying men wouldn't do that, but you could just see how much you both just wanted each other to do well.

12:15 And seeing again on the finish line when you were with Caitlin, and I'm guessing that was from the moment when you told Caitlin that you'd won. I don't know whether Caitlin already knew you'd won, and the excitement of you guys. So, what does it mean to be part of Team Adidas? Because it was just honestly beautiful to watch, and I think really empowering for women to see that women just want women to do well.

12:35 Like, yes, it's competitive, and yes, it's a race, but it's about sharing the day together.

12:39 Yeah, um, it wouldn't be the same without them. Uh it's sharing the podium with Tony and sharing the finish line with Caitlin and the other my crew. Um, so Petit and Nora and Julia. It just makes it more special to be able to share that with them. And I mean, they they know things I've been through, they know how much work it has taken me to get to the start line.

13:10 Um, and seeing them be happy for me and seeing them uh yeah, have tears in their eyes. It's just it reminds me what this is all about. Like it wouldn't be the same without um without them out there. Um and yeah, you're right. When I told Caitlin that I won, she was just like yelling that she was so happy for me.

13:36 And you can genuinely see that she's serious. Like it's not just something she says. I know she's happy for me, I know uh she thinks I deserve it, and I know that uh of course we're competitors out there, everyone w wants to win, but sharing it with my teammates who's also one of my closest friends, that uh it just takes it to another level, I think.

14:04 Just makes the whole the whole race much more special.

14:08 Um, yeah, no, I think it's yeah, it's just really, really nice to watch. And I think, especially for like women's space in trial running, like it can be a very intimidating sport. And quite often you see lots of videos of like, you know, really tough looking men taking on these big challenges. And I think like seeing things like that, it makes you like women feel really empowered.

14:30 Like they're like, it doesn't need to be like a super competitive sport, it can be a thing where you go out with your friends, yes, it's tough, yes, it's challenging, and like all incredible people for taking it on. But like I think it's really nice to show those moments that it is so much more than just losing yourself out on the trails and getting for the lowest of loads.

14:48 Like you can also have like the most beautiful hives, and like it wasn't quite the same, I wasn't you know racing it, but I was at UTMB week with some of my best friends, and it's just yeah, amazing to share those moments in the mountains together. But as you came into Champaglac, which is around the halfway point, you were in 10th place, 20 minutes behind the front runners, I believe.

15:07 Don't quote me on that. Um, how were you kind of feeling at this point in the race? Did you think at this point that you could climb into first?

15:18 Um, I was just running 100% my own race.

15:24 Yeah.

15:24 Um I started conservative on purpose. Um coming into Champagne Lac. I I still felt good, like I didn't feel the fatigued. Um I got splits that I was 16 minutes behind the podium, and I was like, nah, I don't care about that. I'm just I'm just running my own race. Like I need to feel well, I need to take care of my pace, like I I just uh I need to move well.

15:56 Um so at that point I didn't care about the splits, I just cared about myself. And I know from after the race that I was 23 minutes behind at Champellac. Um But when I continued and starting to catch people, and I also had some of my teammates out there giving me splits, um, of course that gives a motivation to know that you're moving faster than the people in front of you.

16:28 And um when I got the splits, that it was like uh yeah, 16 minutes, 11 minutes, 9 minutes, 7 minutes, 4 minutes, then you always you know that okay, I feel good, I can maintain this pace. And by doing that, I'm catching people. So of course that gives a huge motivation, and that's also where um I was still running my race, but you get the extra um how do you say, like a bit more competitive because you know that okay, I can turn this around.

16:59 Um yeah, I wasn't hoping to for the podium, but when I realized how close I was, then um of course that gives him motivation.

17:11 Yeah, no, it was incredible to watch, and you looked so good coming through, especially Treon. That was the moment where I was like, is she actually gonna do it? Because you looked so strong. You might not have might have felt a bit tired, she'd run a long way at that point, but you genuinely looked so much smoother and more in control, and like you were having the best time, and I think like we kind of discussed earlier, like the happy runner is the best kind of runner, like you looked the happiest leading that aid station.

17:39 Did you feel good coming out of Trion or were the legs feeling busted?

17:44 That's the thing. I um like I know that I worked hard for this, but I I'm also lucky that I had a good day. Um so I didn't feel I don't remember feeling bad at any point in the race. Like I it's one of these days where I felt feel like I can just keep running and running. Um so yeah, I I was I was still feeling good in triant.

18:10 Um, of course, you start to feel that you run a long way, but it wasn't it wasn't bad at all. Um and I was I was still happy, I was still smiling. Uh I had just had Petter uh yelling at me and giving me a lot of courage in Triant. So uh uh that helped a lot. Um so I I was very happy and I still felt strong in Trion.

18:37 Yeah, it's amazing. Just out of curiosity, it wouldn't have made a difference because you won by well over five minutes in the end. But there's obviously quite a famous video of Tony getting stopped at the train crossing and then Yao Meow caught her up. Did you get because the live stream wasn't on you at this time, did you get stops at the train crossing too, or did you go straight through?

18:55 No, I I ran straight through it. I I actually didn't know about this until after the race. Uh, I saw something on Instagram and I was like, wait, what? They were stopped by the train. So uh I don't know how much that affected the the race and the positions, but um, yeah, I was lucky that I wasn't stopped by the by it.

19:16 Um yeah, I can't even imagine. Like Tony, to be fair, looked like she took it well, but I can't imagine the frustration of having such a like a two-minute lead and then meow meow catching up, and then Jennifer Liter benefited from it too because she didn't get stopped at all either. But yeah, it must be tough and racist when things like that happen.

19:36 It must be so frustrating to just stand there and wait for the train. Especially when the barriers didn't go up for ages. Like I felt like I was watching it for a lifetime. Tony must have felt like she was stood there for a very, very long time.

19:51 I can imagine it must feel like it took so much uh it was so much longer. Yeah, in the moment.

19:59 So you obviously won CCC, an incredible race. You absolutely smashed the course, and you didn't end up going up Flager, actually. How was that communicated and when did you find out you weren't gonna be going up Flager?

20:12 Uh it was uh yeah, when was that? After around 40k. Oh, I don't remember the name of the aid station, but there we had some some teammates out there. I was running with Caitlin. Um, so they told us they were also like we got the message on our phones, so we were also talking a bit about it. Um the runners out there, yeah.

20:42 Um, like people are so nice. They were turning around and saying to us, like, did you see that they changed the course? We're not going off Clecher. Um so that was nice. Uh we still went up a long way, I feel. Yeah. Like in the end. We're like it wasn't too far away from Flecher. Yeah. Um but it was fine.

21:06 Like, like I said, we just got the news and thought, okay, now we have to change a little in our heads. Like, um, I always think about like how long I have left. In the last part there's a climb, uh, like know where I go up and down. Now I had to I didn't know exactly the course, um, and I didn't know the profile, which made it a bit more uncertain.

21:35 But since I had a good day, I it was fine. It would be worse if I was feeling very bad and just wanted to finish and didn't know how long it would be in kilometers in the end and how the profile was, but this time it was okay.

21:49 Yeah. No, uh that would be my worry that not knowing how far it is till the finish. And I feel like it would end up always like dragging and feeling really long. But if you're feeling good, then it's good. If you're really tired and when the women are going through that section, it's dark. Like I can imagine it, yeah, it would be very mentally tough, especially if you miss the flags as well in the dark.

22:09 Because I heard it's quite a technical section as well. So it must have been hard maps for GPS to kind of confirm you were in the right place.

22:19 Yeah, um, it was a bit technical, and then coming down to Chamonix, I thought we were just following the river into the city, but they wanted us to go up again to the on the small south balcony. Um I I didn't expect that. I I thought that we were done with uphills and then they sent us up again.

22:40 But yeah, it was just in the end of the race, so no, it's yeah, it was definitely a CCC to remember, especially for the men's race as well. Finishing with all of the UCMB runners about to go, yeah, it was an adventure out there, definitely.

22:54 Yeah, yeah. They pushed uh the start for UTMB because of the weather. There was some really heavy rain out there at one point. There was also the lightning.

23:05 Yeah. Yeah. Um my friend was um taking photos on the top of the first climb, and she couldn't believe that you guys were running through that because the weather looked horrific on the live stream. I guessing being Norwegian, it does work quite well because you trained through the rain all winter, but the people who've been doing heat adaptations and all that, yeah.

23:26 I know, yeah. I was definitely prepared for the rain this year, for sure.

23:32 Um, what was your shoe of choice and did it cope well with the muds and slightly wetter conditions?

23:38 Uh surprisingly well, I ran with the new um Adidas Evos. Nice. Um yeah, I was super happy with my choice of shoe for this race. Um I felt like they were yeah, they were comfortable and I felt they were a bit uh fast, like snappy. Yeah. Uh and surprisingly, I had after the race, I had not a single blister on my foot.

24:06 That's impressive actually. Yeah, that's very rare. Yeah.

24:10unknown Yeah.

24:12 So after you win, it was yeah, an amazing race to watch. Um, how did it compare to how you felt in 2023 winning?

24:21 Um my race in 2023 were completely different. I think I was leading from like uh it was before Champellac, so around 30k or something. Yeah. And I just uh I ran in the front all the way to the finish. So it was completely different than this year. Um, but also very special. Um I mean that was my first win there.

24:49 Um so it's a lot of similarities too, like the the feeling of coming into Chamonix, seeing all the people. Um but it the raced I would say strategy were completely different. Yeah. No, it's crazy how different. Was it a hot year 2023? It was I don't think it was super hot, like average. It was hot around Champlac, and then I think it was fine for the rest of the race.

25:21 Yeah.

25:22 I imagine it was probably drier than. But also now, yeah. Um now this year I I have much more experience also with uh long distance. Um feeling more confident with nutrition and just running for 12 hours. It's um it took more of me in 2023 than it does now. Especially after the race. Like I felt much better this time after the race than in 2023.

25:52 I can imagine that you feel pretty battered the day after. Yeah, uh yes and no, like um surprisingly well this year.

26:02 Um that's good.

26:04 But still, I mean you still you feel like you run 100k. That's not what I mean. It's just I felt much better than expected.

26:11 Yeah, less less sore. I guess the excitement of winning helps with the recovery.

26:17 Yeah, and surprisingly, the training. Yeah. The long days before the ra uh in the summer, in the rain. It's uh it's definitely been definitely been helping.

26:29 Shows the training's paid off. So CCC is a golden ticket race. Obviously, you DNF'd at Western State. You've told us how much the race means to you. Is Western State still the dream?

26:39 Uh yeah, I'm I'm going back. I'm I always have my tickets and I will give it another try. Uh, cannot stop with a DNF. Um, especially when I when I got the ticket now, I feel like that's a good opportunity. Um, it's nice to get the tickets so early. I don't have to stress about qualifying. Like this year, um Kianti was being the first race of the season, I felt like it was a bit too close to Western States.

27:12 Like I it took me a long time to recover after that. My legs were wrecked after Kianti. I wasn't used to running the hills, um, training for it in Norway. Um so I'm happy that I'm I got to qualify this early. And I I need to accept this possibility. So yeah, I'm I'm going back. Yeah.

27:39 That's so exciting. And that's the plan. Yeah, I feel like hopefully it'll be a good year. Because, like you said, you've got more time to prep for it, more time to get yourself to the start line in the best shape. And yeah, we're really excited to see you do it. Outside of running, you've kind of shared that you're a doctor.

27:57 How do you cope with training and working in healthcare?

28:02 Um, it's a very fine balance. Um, I worked 100% until this summer, and now I actually plan to work a little less. Um so now I basically work whenever I'm needed or feel like it, which is nice to have a little break. It goes up and down with running. It's like I managed to get a session in before and after work.

28:32 That's fine. It's just uh sleep and recovery and um relax, the prehab, all of that. It's what I don't have time to. Um so I'm trying to be better at that now, like to be better taking care of myself and my body. But I still don't want to stop completely with either of them. Like I like to do both, and I've always found it hard to choose, uh, even though sometimes it can be rough, and sometimes I don't feel like I manage any of them.

29:09 But it's just also a good balance with being an athlete, I'm only caring about myself, like I'm very selfish. Uh, I need to focus on what's good for me and my own performance. And then on the other side, being a doctor, you're like, you're there to take care of others, and like you cannot think about yourself that much in your everyday work.

29:32 Um, which is a nice balance, like it gives me more purpose to be able to do that, to be able to help others. Um, so I'm I'm happy that I'm able to do both. And of course, sometimes I wish that I could focus on one of them, but I wouldn't have known what to choose.

29:53 Yeah, it's hard when you've got a love for two very different things, and I can imagine it's incredibly hard to balance, but also when you love both of them so much, that's what kind of helps you navigate it. And I actually don't know how I do it because I am an intensive care nurse and I find it so hard to balance the two.

30:13 I'm also taking a bit of a break for different reasons, but yeah, it's a very, very demanding and tiring job. So absolute respect for balancing them both. And it sounds like a good move to have a bit of time to kind of reset, and you still get to do both passions, just looking a bit different. But going forward, we've obviously talked about Western States is a big goal.

30:34 Are there any other trail running bucket list races that you really want to do or adventures you want to go on?

30:40 Oh, so many of them. I mean, there's so many cool races out there, uh, so many nice places I want to see. Um, but yeah, let's see. I I still have UTMB on my list and hard rock on my list. Uh yeah, but I don't want my first UTMB to be double with Western States. I can't believe people doing that. Like it's so crazy.

31:07 Uh uh respect for the for the people running both Western States and UTMB. Um, but I want my first UTMB to be uh focused on UTMB that year. So next year we'll be Western States, hopefully. That's the plan. And then let's see if or when I can focus on UTMB. Um I'm very excited to do the full-up. I've been thinking about that for years, but I always felt like it was too long or I just needed to take the steps up there.

31:39 But I really feel like I'm I'm ready to give it a try.

31:42 I love that. And yeah, I don't know how people do both. Like the turnaround time is so quick, and by the time you've recovered and then thought about the taper into the next race, the training in between is very little. So yeah, it sounds a sensible way of doing it rather than forcing both, but that is so exciting, and like you said, it's an endless list of races that we all want to do.

32:03 So yeah, many exciting adventures.

32:06 Yeah, and also just doing I've been trying to focus more on local races in Norway because there's so many cool races here, and uh you always or or I'm always focusing on races outside of Norway. Um, so I'm trying, or I have been trying to do some races here as well because there's so many nice places to see, and so many nice trails, and so many nice local races around here.

32:33 I think it's really nice to celebrate like your own trails and like where you've come from. If I imagine it feels very special as well to race on your own trails, and it's nice to see it, like athletes taking on their local races and kind of almost advertising how cool their trails are, being like, look, this is where I get to run.

32:50 Like, you guys should come and see it. Like, I really like that when athletes do that. Yeah, I agree. Don't worry if you haven't got any trail news, but every week I ask every guest to potentially bring a piece of trail news, whether it's a new Fast No Time, a new product, any of those things. You could do mine first if that helps to give you time to think.

33:08 Yeah. Perfect, cool. Well, celebrating like trails that we've just been discussing. So in the UK, in Wales, there's currently this race called Dragons Back, which I've never been that tempted to do it. I don't want to do it anytime soon. But looking at it, I'm now like, this is actually really cool. I got it's been on my radar for a few years, but I've never properly like delved into what it's like.

33:29 So basically, you run the length of Wales, which Wales trails, I've well, Welsh trails, I've never been to Norway, but I imagine they're kind of similar, very rugged, very wet, windy, bogs, and lots of mud. But the race, yeah, it traverses, well, no drawn traverses, goes down the whole length of Wales.

33:46 It's very technical. For example, day one was 50k with 4,100 metres elevation. It's a six-day race, and you kind of get timed for each stage, and then all your times add up. And the full length is 380 kilometres with 16,000 metres elevation. Today is stage three, so it started on Monday and today's Wednesday.

34:07 By the time the podcast's out, it probably will be over. But they've had some brutal weather. They've already on day one you go across Crib Gok, which is famous for how technical and sketchy it is, and it's just a really cool race to watch. They've been doing like daily recaps on YouTube, so definitely check those out.

34:24 But I just wanted to shout out to all the runners that are doing it and the people that are out there supporting them because it's an epic challenge.

34:31 Oh, that's so cool. I love that. I love the multiple multi-day races. Uh, haven't done that myself, but I really want to try that once. So that's super, super cool.

34:43 I feel like it's a completely different ball game, like doing multiple days, having to look after yourself. And I just can't imagine like finishing 50k with 4,000 meters elevation, going to bed and knowing you've still got five more days to go. Like you must feel broken by the end of it.

35:03 Yeah, I mean, and you still have you probably don't sleep well because you're sleeping in a camp or something, and then um especially if it's wet, like how do you dry all your clothes?

35:16 And well, it's it's crazy, but respect to uh people doing that so do you have anything to share? Don't worry if not.

35:24 Yeah, well, I'm sorry, I just cannot come up with something. I think I've just been way up in my own hair this week.

35:31 It's all right, you've done a big race, so it's completely understandable. Um, and to be fair, I I was actually struggling on a bit of trail news this week. So I've recorded quite a few episodes this week, and I was like, I need the trail world, need something to keep coming. But actually, I do keep finding things pop up on my Instagram.

35:46 I'm like, I can't believe all these incredible things are happening. But thank you so, so much for joining you, Phil. This has been a really, really cool episode. And best of luck in your trail running adventures to come, and we can't wait to continue watching your journey. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

36:01 It was nice to talk to you. Thank you.