Courtney Dauwalter Is Scheming for 2027, Moab 240 Preview + Jasmin Paris Is "Keen" on Hardrock (Singletrack News)

0:00 Welcome back or welcome to the Single Track Podcast. I'm your host, Finn Melanson, and this is another edition of the Single Track News. Before we get started, though, first, thanks to Precision Fuel and Hydration, not only are they the official nutrition partner of the show, they will also be providing product on course at the Antelope Island Fall Classic this weekend and sweat testing at Packet Pickup Friday night at Salt Lake Running Company.

0:23 Go check them out at Precision Fuel and Hydration.com and feel free to use code SingleTrack at checkout for 15% off your next order. Also, thanks to Norda, the official footwear partner of the show. If you were following along on social this weekend, they sponsored the legendary Angelus Crest 100 out in Southern California.

0:42 Anyways, go check them out as well, Norda Run.com. They are making my favorite shoes in the trail running game right now. Kicking off the news here, Courtney DeWalter is quote unquote scheming for her 2027 season. And this is really fun. She posted on Instagram about it and invited the community to weigh in and help her brainstorm.

1:04 I thought it could be fun to just highlight some of our favorite suggestions in the comment section and maybe just to throw uh to use this platform here to maybe throw in some of our own ideas elicit. When you were scanning the comment section there, did anything interesting come across your plate? And did you want to weigh in with any ideas for Courtney next year?

1:25 Yeah. Well, I love that she's doing this. My the two ones that stood out to me, and then I have two to add. Well, first of all, I loved her East Coast. There's some East Coast suggestions. Love that. But Leadville, I mean, she lives there. I've always I've always kind of wondered when she was going to do Leadville tour.

1:44 I would love to see her take on tour as well. And then my two suggestions that maybe they were further down, uh Dragon's Back, I think would be amazing to see her take on that iconic race and take another shot at the Colorado Trail. I think it'd be great to see a return to that. Kind of, you know, we're always taking lessons from all the multi-day stuff.

2:11 Um I'd love to see her maybe do like a super fast marathon, like Olympic trials qualifier, and then throw down the Colorado Trail the same year because she's got that range.

2:22 Fantastic suggestions. Uh I'll latch on to the OTQ. I mean, thinking about this time last year when she was on that marathon quest, I I think that the the result of all of that training and racing. I mean, I think in a lot of ways she was a better, more complete runner in 2026. I definitely think it served her well at Chianti, Hard Rock.

2:45 Um, people forget, but I she had a fantastic Coca Dona. She ran under the previous year's course record. Racer entrick and just ran out of her mind and set an overall record time, but Courtney had a fantastic Coca-Dona, in my opinion. Uh, and I and I think a lot of that can be chalked up to just like uh, you know, relatively later in her career, just building a better brand new-ish skill set via the marathon.

3:08 So yeah, I think I think she's already, I mean, she is like maybe a minute or two off the the B standard right now for OTQ. Super, super close. It is, I think the final year, I mean, the Olympic trials are in St. Louis, I think, in 2028 in early spring. So it could be fun to see her spend a little bit extra time there in 27.

3:31 And then, yeah, the other thought for me was I mean, the the Colorado Trail is also excellent. Someone threw in the idea of doing Nolans.

3:40 Yeah. Sorry, garbage truck behind me. But yes, Nolans would be amazing.

3:47 But I think the general idea there is like just given her platform the visibility that she would automatically bring to any any of these races, events, routes. Uh, there's just like a fun public education to be had and just inspiration. So yeah, being from the Northeast, I spammed the comment section with the Whites 100 in New Hampshire.

4:06 And I do think some of the locals there caught on to that because they engaged with that post and gave it a bunch of upvotes. So there's definitely a concerted effort among the folks in Vermont, New Hampshire to raise the profile there. So yeah, I think it'd be cool if like she did something fairly traditional, like the marathon, sprinkled in a fun race, like a Leadville, the mammoth tour, which just happened.

4:28 And then maybe some fun, you know, underground-ish FKT project.

4:35 Yeah, I just want her to do what she loves and is inspired by because I feel like she has just accomplished and elevated the sport in every way. I hope that she's sitting down being like, what do I really want to do? And I hope that she feels the freedom to get to do that. Not and not that I think that she probably hasn't enjoyed all of it, but I think there's always things kind of in the back shelf, like, one day I'll do that.

5:01 And I hope that this is one day for her.

5:04 Next up here, the Hard Rock 100 lottery is officially open. And I believe the lottery itself takes place alongside or close to, in terms of date, the Western States lottery later this fall, early winter. And, you know, speculation is going to be rampant over the next month or two as to who Dale and the team there will make their special consideration picks around for um, I mean, you it usually ends up being, you know, professional athletes in the scene.

5:35 And again, just just fun to speculate here, Alyssa. Maybe starting more broadly, who do you think are the likely candidates for this category?

5:46 I would say the three that come to mind right away are Ben Diemon, Blendine, and Rachel are kind of the ones that I would honestly be a little bit surprised if uh they didn't get the spots. But we'll see. I could also see uh Kerith getting a spot again. Possibly Tara. Uh I kind of hope it's new blood just for the sake of kind of the excitement of it.

6:18 Maybe Ruth could be super interesting. What do you think, Infin?

6:25 Well, are you gonna put in?

6:27 Well, yeah, I mean, yes, of course I would love to, but I wasn't gonna include myself in that.

6:33 I'll speak for you. Alyssa Alyssa Clark is on the market for hard rock. Please. I uh great list. I would also just add on the men's side there's there's a couple people who I think have had uh great performances at relevant events on the list in years past. Uh and I'm biased here because they're for they're friends as well, but uh people like Tyler Green, who just set a course record at the Scout Mountain 100, which is a new-ish hard rock qualifier, fantastic event, really tough.

7:05 I was actually just talking with uh Mike McMonaco the other day, and we were kind of debating like uh because Mike did both Scout and Bear this year, and we were like, huh, like as it as things funnel to hard rock, like which one of those is is tougher? And like why it why does it seem like both on paper and in output of times, like why is Scout so much harder?

7:25 But Tyler had a fantastic performance there. Also got to throw in uh, you know, friend of the pod, contributor to the pod, Jeff Colt, who I think has been on that hard rock mission for a bit. I think he'd be fantastic, great performance, uh course record performance at High Lonesome last year. Uh here's an interesting one that I'm gonna throw you away, Alyssa.

7:46 And it could be under the radar-ish, but about three weeks ago, Jasmine Paris had a public QA on Reddit, and one commenter said, Everyone has a dream trail. What is a dream trail you haven't run yet, but you intend on doing so? Jasmine responds, I'd be keen to run hard rock at some point, and I have a qualifying race now that I finished Swiss Alps this year.

8:10 Also, I think it'd be really fun to run the PCT and or the Appalachian Trail too, although those would be big projects and would need to wait until the kids are bigger. End quote. So yeah, it seems like of those three, you know, the hard rock is sort of the most practical for just where she's at in life right now.

8:30 That would be really interesting. Uh, you know, she's uh I think a lot of Americans know her for what she's accomplished at Barclay, but really quite a complete runner, incredible runner, um great skyrunner. It would be she would be formidable, amazing thick, yeah.

8:52 I didn't I didn't even think of her because I just kind of not knowing interest, but yes, absolutely. I mean, all the people that I'm naming, I feel like deserve it more than I do at this point. I'd love to, but like, no, they should get it. Also, Meg Eckhart has been trying to get in for a long time, would love to see her do that.

9:15 Jeff Mocavero, also kind of in a similar boat, have been on the list for a long time. So yeah, would love to see them get a shot. I hope it's new people. That's just what I'd love to see.

9:29 It would be cool to see a fresh crop for sure. Um, okay, next up here, Mammoth 200 recap. Women's side, Mika Thu's first female finished second overall in 54 hours, three minutes. On the men's side, Gabe Joy's overall winner, 51 hours, 33 minutes. A little bit of background on Mika and Gabe. Mika won Tahoe earlier this year, two-time winner of Bigfoot, sixth at Tor a few years back, multiple podiums at Kokodona, one of the best of her generation.

9:59 On the men's side, Gabe, fourth at Hard Rock in recent years, multiple second place finishes at High Lonesome, second at Hurt earlier this year, Lyssa. You know Hurt well. Multiple seconds at I'm Tough a few years back. So uh really solid hundred-mile runner, uh always, you know, on the podium, sort of, uh, sometimes playing second fiddle, but this is a major, major victory in his trail card.

10:25 I believe this this might be his I fact check me, but might be his first multi-day.

10:30 It's his first 200, it's not his first multi-day, but yes, I think first multi-day victory. Yeah, because he's on Dragon's Back.

10:40 Okay. So uh your thoughts here just on on those performances or the event in general.

10:46 I mean, I have to shout out Roxanne Vogel, works for Goo, Mammoth Native, third overall. Super strong.

10:57 I mean, I it right, like one of the one of the storylines from this event has to be uh the number of women p penetrating the overall top ten, top five. Again, like it's just been a kid. Yeah. Three in the top six. Cause yeah, we've we've we talked about this after Tor, we talked about this after Coca-Dona.

11:19 Like what to I mean, this is just so impressive. What to make of it? Does it refactor at all how we think again? This is just me, me talking, editorializing. Like, does this refactor at all how we think about gender at the multi-day event distance? Because it like there's just been such consistent high performance across the board at a lot of these major events now, including Mammoth.

11:39 It's like like there was a there was a uh clip from the event midway through, and it was like the men's podium running, and the headline was like, Mika Thuze is running with the men. And my thought was like, it kind of feels like the men are running with Mika Thuze. And like it sort of ended up playing up playing out that way, right?

11:59 Where uh, like you said, three, three women in the top six, two in the top three, Roxanne amazing. I don't know, it just it w we're in such an exciting time right now. Women are crushing, it's incredible.

12:11 Yeah. It's not surprising. I mean, it's um it's amazing, it's not surprising to me at this point in seeing the the level at which women are finishing. Like it's almost surprising if a woman isn't in the top podium overall.

12:29 What do you attribute it to?

12:31 I think there's a number of physical factors that make women very good at running 200s, the fat burning, the like just the endurance aspect. I think women are very, very good at the endurance. I think possibly some sleep deprivation. Women are maybe a little bit better at that. I think some of it has to go with kind of our innate uh abilities that we have to raise children.

13:00 Uh, not that everyone has children, but I think we do have some of those abilities of pain tolerance. And I think women I think 200s really pay off being a bit more patient, and women tend to be a bit more patient and run within themselves for better or for worse. And I feel like that really pays off in 200s, as opposed to the going out really hard and then being able to and then kind of having to pick up the pieces at the end.

13:26 Women are much more consistent across the board. So I doesn't surprise me, but amazing to see I think the confidence continues to grow and grow and grow of like, yes, I should be here. Yes, I should be doing this.

13:43 Another standout piece for me that I wanted to highlight, and I think in most years, Coca-Donna does this well too. I think the the clips that are coming out of social media are great, but something felt slightly, and it could have just been the formatting and some of the presentation, something felt different and better than usual from the clips that were coming.

14:04 I felt like the Mountain Outpost team and Mammoth did a great job at not just highlighting critical moments like a pass or you know, a key milestone landmark for a runner at a given point in the race. I I felt like they did a great job at if, for example, there was a point in the live stream where one of the commentators poses an interesting debate question or one of their guests coming on makes a great point, they clipped that and they put that on social.

14:32 And when you layer that on yeah, like some of the just like the more performative or performance moments from the runners themselves, I felt like I was able to actually feel pretty tapped in just following the clips exclusively on social for this. Like the narrative arc was great. Uh, I wrote down two things here.

14:50 They clipped uh a portion of an interview with Jimmy Elam, who they brought on as a guest co-commentator for a few moments, and they were asking Jimmy about his thoughts on sleep, when to sleep, how much of it is the jury still out on things? So it was fun to like get that clip. They had a clip that they pulled from a Rachel Entrick interview where she talks about, you know, one of the people that she quote unquote fears the most in the sport is Mika, and she kind of sees Mika as sort of like a Tara Dower type character in the sport too.

15:20 So it was just cool to I want more of those in the future, you know, in addition to the visuals and the athlete performance parts. If if clipping these uh just engaging commentary moments too is great. So I thought that was a huge, huge win for this race that I hope is uh is pulled by other races for the future.

15:39 Yeah, and I love I applaud Mountain Outpost, the commentators, the team for being really creative in the delivery of such a long event where it it gets really hard to be on a mic for six hours, eight hours for a 200-miler where there's just not that much going on. And the visuals are beautiful, but I think they're getting really creative and bringing so many more parts to the story that is truly fleshing out the entire production and why people tune in and stay engaged.

16:16 You know, when you're calling a 100-miler, it's like it's it's there's a lot of action generally happening. But in a 200-mile, you really have to bring kind of these other elements into it. And I so I think they're really doing a good job at that.

16:29 John G, the official apparel partner of the podcast. First off, how about quick break to thank John G, the official apparel partner of the podcast? First off, how about that performance from John G athlete Mika Thuze at the Mammoth this past weekend? Basically a wire-to-wire victory and finishing second overall.

16:49 Major kudos. Just amazing. Anyways, John G's fall 26 collection is here, including their merino, half zips, trail tights, trekker snappy long sleeves, and more. Go check it all out at jongy.com forward slash singletrack. Also, thanks to Raid, the official equipment partner of the show. First off, I think one of their athletes, Anna Gibson, is on the start line for the Kodiak 50K this coming weekend, which will be exciting.

17:14 Follow along on the live stream to see what products from Raid she's using. As you all know, I am a big fan of the LF2L belt. Even now that I'm predominantly on the roads getting ready for CIM, I'm still using this belt, especially on long runs. I can fit a 600 milliliter bottle in there plus all the gels I need.

17:30 And if I want to bring my phone to listen to a podcast or tunes to help the miles click, it accommodates that too with no bounce. Go check it out at raidresear.com. Few race previews to go through. First up, Deffy Decoulour, as you probably know, or talking more to the audience here too. Next week will be the Canadian Mountain Running Championships at Mount Sedan, along with the WMRA World Cup Finals.

17:57 More than 20 nations are going to be represented, 140 elite athletes from around the world, $43,000 in total prize money. So again, this is another significant prize money event in the sport. I think this is gonna, if you if you look at the rosters here, it's gonna be one of the most competitive off-road slash trail events ever held on Canadian soil, really impressive.

18:19 There'll be an uphill race and up-down race, you know, classic formats. Just wrote down a couple American names here. Again, this spans across nations, but just to focus on the Americans here, because mostly American audience, men's side, Cam Smith, Mason Copie, Paul Knight, Dan Kurtz, Adam Soland, Eris Redding, Mika Bowden Rousseau, women, Taylor Peavy, Raina Schwartz, Aaron Moyer, Maya Rale, Cassie Enman, Hillary Allen, Andy Cornish, Oakley Olsen, really strong American contingent showing up.

18:51 Uh, looking at some of the videos and the photos from last year seems like a beautiful event. We don't talk a ton about WMRI on this podcast, and sometimes I feel like it gets lost in the sauce with other shorter circuits like the Skyrunner World Series and Golden Trail Worlds. But um this is cool, and and kudos to the team there uh for building a really compelling, from what I can tell, final event in the WMRI circuit.

19:23 Yeah, and I mean an amazing place to do it. Fall Mount St. Ann, I've gotten to run there before. I really technical, which I think is quite fun. It's East Coast running, which I'm just glad, you know, we've seen a lot of events starting to really pop up. I think the East Coast does short trail really well.

19:42 I think they create technical, hard races that test a lot of different skill sets. So I'm excited to see this happening in the East Coast mountains bringing a ton. I was saying this to you, Finn, before a lot of what I think are the up-and-comers of the sport, ones I think are going to be stalwarts and very excited to see them face off.

20:10 I think with younger athlete racing, there's just an element of excitement where sometimes they strike gold and sometimes they learn a lot. And so you never quite know who's going to be on top. And I'm excited to follow along and see some of these athletes just really emerge as the stars that they've already are projected to be.

20:36 Next up here, and actually, Alyssa, if you don't mind, while I'm reading off these names, if you can check to see if it will be live streamed like it was last year, uh, brief preview of Kodiak by UTMB. It is once again in 2026 the America's major for the region. 100 Mile Starters looks like uh a few names I recognize.

20:59 Cody Poskin is there, Helimino Faulkner, Barrett Gray, Ryan Montgomery's on the list. I don't think he's racing. I think he has another project that he's focusing on later in the year.

21:10 He's not. Killian's not.

21:13 Killian's not, Killian Court's not, yeah. Yeah. In the 100K, Lottie Brinks, Corinne Shallvoy, Lindsay Allison, Elena Horton, Becca Bramley, Peyton Bilo, Steven Kirsch, Gavin Pryor, Grant Barnett, Justin Greenwald. So some depth there. And then for the 50K, Eli Hemming. I'm gonna Cade Michael's on there, but he just raced at Grindstone, so I'm not sure.

21:37 Matt Daniels, Cole Campbell, Chad Hall, Spencer Shellberg, who's a baller, just had a great Desert Rats earlier this year. Anna Gibson, Liz O'Connor, Ashley Brassivan, Abby Hall. Really cool. Um, so yeah, America's major here, direct entry into UTMB. Uh Do you did you were able to find if they're live streaming it this year?

22:03 That's what I'm looking at. That was the sound you were just hearing was me trying to figure out.

22:10 First thoughts here for me is just, and I again I think it just also just speaks to how many other compelling events are happening concurrently. People like you'll be at Diego de Fu, Javelin is two weeks later, uh we're just coming off UTMB, run rabbit, list goes on. I feel like, and again, the names that we rattled off fantastic.

22:33 I I think I'm just a little bit surprised not to see as many of them here at Kodiak, just given the stature of this. And I don't know if is this a is it is this a tough time of year to host the America's Major? Is there even a better time? Is it kind of just like you have to you have to deal? Your thoughts here.

22:53 You know, I think it's really hard because I spent far too much time thinking about this. In the like the US and Europe, Australia, they can have a little bit of a different season. Few other places can have different seasons. We just have only so long to get off bigger mountain races before we can't get up into the mountains.

23:19 So everything kind of has to get condensed into a certain time frame, and we just run out of time to do it. And so I think it's really hard to navigate when the times work. I think of Kodiak as either your UTMB didn't go very well, or it was kind of off. And so you're like, okay, maybe I dropped, or maybe I didn't quite do what I wanted to do.

23:51 I can jump into a Kodiak, I can make sure I have my qualifier for the next year, also kind of give a good effort a little bit more visibility with the major. Um, or I see it as a great opportunity for up-and-coming runners to get a qualifier to get a little bit more visibility, but it's really tricky with the proximity of UTMB, with the proximity of just a lot of really strong races to get the depth.

24:22 Yeah, I mean, just a number of opportunities in the fall that I it's just hard. It it's hard to pick a great time. I don't think that Canyons was the worst for a major in terms of timing. I thought that was pretty good for the US major. I love Kodiak. I mean, it's in my backyard, one of my favorite events, but I think that it's tough to have that major because you have Australia in May, you have Valderrain in July, UTMB, Kodiak, and then uh Thailand.

25:06 They're all kind of like it gets really condensed at the end. So I did kind of like having canyons to give a little bit of distance. You know, the only one in April. But we just don't only have so many months we can have these events happen. I think that's just what we run into it.

25:24 I just found the 2026 live stream calendar, by the way. And it does look like Kodiak is on there. So we will have a Kodiak live stream a week from today. And then the final live streamed event in their schedule will be Chiang Mai, which is the uh the Asia major. And yeah, it's uh it's all you can find it all, and this is for the audience.

25:46 You can find it all at utmb.world forward slash news, forward slash utmb live 2026, and they just go into details about what to expect. I think one of the cool things here, and I I believe they did this last year too, but they'll have uh they're promising a 45-minute best of live program. So basically a recap edition of the live stream that will be published on the UTMB World Series YouTube channel uh within 48 hours post-race, which is really cool.

26:11 What a fantastic way if you can't tune into the live stream directly while it's happening. They'll have a uh a recap edition within two days of the main event, which is fantastic. Okay. Lastly, here before we get to just like miscellaneous news and content of the week, a preview of the Moab 240, the race for the triple crown, and possibly the overall record is still on the table.

26:39 I think for both the men's and women's side. Uh for clarity for the audience, we're looking at times and performances from 2023 onward because I believe in 2023 they added, I think it was 10 or 12 miles between Shea Mountain and Dry Valley. So times set for that reroute aren't measured against the same course.

27:01 On the men's side, Aaron Kubala, I think, has to break roughly 61 hours here to take Killian course record. 58, 45, 47 for context, is that men's course record here, which is also set by Killian. On the women's side, Amy Warnkey has to break roughly 75 hours to break Manuela Vilaseca's record, which was also set in 25.

27:24 A lot happened in 25 last year. And the course record for here is 720736, which was set by a Salt Lake City local Becca Rick last year. Your thoughts on Aaron, Amy, the Triple Crown, what's at stake here? You have experience at Moab, big experience here. Your thoughts in general?

27:48 Yeah, I mean, I think it's exciting to see a second year in a row where this could happen. The conditions are looking hot but dry, which last year, if you remember, it was so rainy and muddy and difficult that I think that the records could be broken based on really solid running, but also just better conditions for athletes to traverse the course.

28:20 I think that makes a huge difference. Uh yeah. Uh there's also Ashley Paulsons in there as well. She's very strong. I didn't recognize, I recognized a few more on the women's side than the men's side. I didn't recognize quite as many men other than Aaron. Um so yeah, we'll we'll see. I wish them good weather, though.

28:44 I hope it stays dry, but not too hot.

28:48 Yeah, it does seem like there's a bit of a race on the women's side for the overall triple crown too. Ashley Paulson finished seventh at Bigfoot, second at Tahoe earlier this year. L Jones finished second at Bigfoot, fourth at Tahoe. So if Amy is to falter at all, uh there is a bit of a race there. I've been really impressed with Aaron's 2026 season.

29:10 Actually, I got I got to meet him briefly in Chamonix this past August at that awesome. Do you know the smoothie shop that I'm referring to in in downtown Chamonix?

29:21 Yeah.

29:22 Everyone should go there. It's it's fantastic. I I try to go there like every day almost. I'm I'm addicted. But I met I got to meet him there, and I think what he's doing is is fantastic. Um, Killian set an amazing overall time to be, and I I think it's really impressive that in his last race of the triple crown sets a course record at Moeb.

29:46 So finished really strong in that whole season. And yeah, Aaron doesn't have to set a course record to be in contention, but uh still like to break 61 hours here is um he's gotta move. He's gotta move. And I believe in at Bigfoot, and we I think we talked about this on a previous news program, but uh sort of controversial.

30:08 He he was docked hours on his Bigfoot time because he dropped his pacer, and destination trails has the rule where uh you must stay.

30:18 You can't drop your pacer.

30:19 You can't drop your you cannot drop your pacer at destination trail racist.

30:24 That's okay, that makes so much more sense because I remember seeing him where he was being like, oh, he's gonna go so under 50 hours, I think, something along those lines. And then I looked at the time and went, that doesn't make sense. Like, you know, of course, things happen in 200s where people really slow down, but I was surprised at the time.

30:50 So it makes sense that he was penalized.

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31:32 Find Kodiak at your local grocery store or explore the full lineup at Kodiakcakes.com. Alyssa, I have uh I have so much that I wrote down here for content of the week. I'm just going to call it like miscellaneous news and I'll I'll run through it with you. So a few things to note still standing, that's the title of Killian Korth's movie about his 2026 Cocodona 250 performance.

31:58 I haven't watched it fully through yet, but as soon as we are done with Raced Recting Week here for the Analog Island Fall Classic on Saturday, I am going to plop on my couch and watch it. I am so excited to check it out. We'll link to it in the show notes. Katerina Hartmouth has a great post-race interview on the Trailrunner website.

32:19 To me, the biggest take, I mean there's a lot of takeaways from it, but and again, this isn't going to probably shock a lot of people. I think she just keeps re-emphasizing how important mindset and self-talk is, even at the very top of the sport. And when they're asking her, how is this possible? Why did it happen?

32:40 Uh, her quote is I think one of the biggest things is just believing that you can do it and not being too afraid of what will happen. So, I mean, it's kind of simple, right? Like we we talk about that all the time. It's not like an earth-shattering uh reflection, but it is so true, right? So I mean, everything starts with belief and then it flows downstream of that.

33:04 Uh they also just talk about how her time is now within 1.8% of the men's course record time here. And heading into this year's event, it was something like 19 or 20%. So just it was huge. Yeah. The magnitude of how much she lowered it was really great. Two more things from me. Dakota Jones has is uh kicking off this really cool project.

33:30 I believe it's about 10 days from now, and it's called Where the Water Was. He, over the course of five days, starting and finishing at the Utah State Capitol in Salt Lake City, he's running 256 miles around the perimeter of the Great Salt Lake. He's working with a few local nonprofits, the Utah Rivers Council, Sierra Club, Grow the Flow.

33:50 They are raising money for initiatives that support basically saving the Great Salt Lake. If you, if you don't know, if you don't live in the Great Salt Lake area, lake levels are lowering dramatically. It's exposing all of these toxic dusts on the on the lake bed. Windstorms are kicking that up and blowing it into the metro.

34:09 It's really bad. It's reducing lake effect snow. It's shortening our winter seasons. The ski industry is taking a hit. It's affecting the economy in general. So Dakota is running to raise awareness about that. It's a fantastic initiative. Uh, we'll link to it in the show notes, but also just go check out his footprint site for more info.

34:27 I'm gonna actually try to join him, Alyssa, on at least one of the legs. If I'm not totally destroyed, fall classic after fall classic. And then I know I'm spewing here. Very last thing. Sometimes I go to let's run.com. It's uh it's sort of of the world of road and track and field. So I'm not there a ton, but I was scanning the headlines and there's this guy, Vinny Mori, who, for people that don't know, he burst on the US marathoning scene ridiculously emphatically back in April.

34:59 He ran an American record of 205.54, which is an average of 448 per mile at this marathon in Toledo. And anyways, Jonathan Galt, who's a reporter for Let's Run, is just like talking to him about his process. And he regularly runs 30 miles a day, mostly on treadmill, rarely runs slower than six minute miles, doesn't run much in carbon-plated shoes.

35:26 When I say treadmills, he's going to his local Planet Fitness and doing everything there. And there's serious limitations, like those treadmills, for example, max out at 12.4 miles per hour, which is a 450 mile. So it's actually like the work that he's doing on that treadmill is slower than his marathon pace.

35:40 But the volume of it, the overall intensity of it is ridiculous. He had this run where he averaged 501 pace for 30 miles. And the comment section of his like, dude, if you had just run one more mile, you would have like unofficially broken the 50k world record, which was set by CJ Albertson a few years back, which is 238-43.

36:04 Yeah, uh Jonathan asks him, like, is this sustainable? What's going on? He doesn't say it's sustainable, but he has this theory that the more time that he can spend working hard while staying comfortable and efficient, the better prepared he feels like he'll be for his next race, which is going to be Chicago a week from today or a week later in this week.

36:27 So I think yeah, I wanted to bring this one up, and I'll turn it to you in a second. I wanted to bring this one up just because I and I think rightfully so, for a lot of professional athletes out there. The goal is how long can I stay in this sport at a high level? Like how how how often can I get these great performances, but also like stay healthy and like, you know, be quote unquote sustainable.

36:51 And if you go and read this interview, like I don't think he's claiming at all that any of this is sustainable or that he's not taking a massive risk. But it also seems like he's like comfortable with his face. Like if I if I burn out, like I don't know, he's he just has this massive curiosity to try exotic stuff and see if that yields a breakthrough.

37:12 So uh we'll put that in the show notes as well. But just I I I couldn't choose between these four, so I threw them all there. Your thoughts, Alyssa.

37:19 Yeah, I mean, uh my face is just the whole time been like blown away by I read that article, just I cannot believe how fast and how many miles he's running. It was reminding me I'm trying to find his name, but the runner who was going after the hundred-mile world record competed at Tunnel Hill.

37:46 Oh oh for some reason my Tiger Tiger Bayonettin. T V E.

37:55 Kind of a similar energy where it's like not really going for longevity. I'm trying to do the thing, and I'm gonna do whatever it takes to do the thing, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. If I break, I break. And that is it's not how I think 90 plus percent of people uh operate, but man, does it take some guts to push yourself that hard?

38:30 I'm trying to think of the right way to phrase this question, but how often how often is the type of training and performance that's required for an evolutionary leap in the sport, how often is that compatible with sustainability? And if if if that is your goal, to be that type of contributor to the scene, um, like because I there were there were a lot of comments being like, this isn't sustainable and you know, he's gonna burn out and he's killing his career.

39:03 And like maybe one of my first thought, first thoughts was like, maybe that is true. But um like, is it fair to apply sustainability principles to to the like if you're if you're conscious of the limitations of this approach and like what the consequences are, if you're conscious of that and you accept them, is it a bad thing?

39:24 I don't know. But I just uh that was one of my it was just interesting to read the comment section too, and then to think, huh, like is there a like is it is it even possible to do this sustainably? I don't know. I'd love to hear, you know, like Steve Magnus and and that crew weigh in, like to basically do an episode like reading that article and then thinking, like, huh, like how does that comport with, you know, sort of like the philosophy that they espouse, you know?

39:49 Yeah. I mean, I just think that if that's not the point of what you're trying to accomplish, then who cares? I don't it's hard to condone because I think that there is a level of like probable injury and the the visibility of it, the optics of it, or like we're gonna go until we break ourselves to achieve the thing, but also it's their choice.

40:24 You know, it's like if that's the drive that's there, who am I to say what you should be doing with it? I mean, if you look at like we see this unfortunately in the mountaineering world, I feel like Marc-Andre Leclerc, if you watch The Alpinist, I think he had a bit of a similar drive where it's like, I'm just gonna keep doing these things.

40:41 I don't think he necessarily, I don't think anyone necessarily has like an injury wish or a death wish or something like that. But I do think that there's a certain risk capacity that certain people have that is beyond quote unquote normal. And those people are fasting. And the thing is, I think they'd be that applying that risk to other parts of their life, or it would be channeled a different different way.

41:12 Sometimes I think with athletes or people like this, you know, for whatever reason they picked running, they picked albinism, they picked swimming. But it could have also been, you know, being a scholar of some kind, you know, an obsession in a different way. I think it's just some people have levels of addiction or obsession that is beyond what quote unquote normal humans have.

41:40 And it almost doesn't matter what the thing is, it's just a vehicle to outlet that focus and energy. And sometimes it ends okay, and I think a lot of times it doesn't end very well, but they'd kinda it's kind of like it'd be it would happen anyway, just whatever form it takes.

41:59 Open question to the audience for me, and great points, Alyssa. Open open questions for me to the audience is do we have any training examples of this in the history of trail? Like, and I especially want to know like, can someone in the audience find for me a training block where a trail athlete spent as much or close to this much time in the types of training zones that Vinny is running in?

42:28 And maybe we can even accept some graduation, like it's not like I don't know, it's it's really, it's probably really tough in trail to spend like that much time in like Z4 and Z3. But I I would love to know, like, it could if if P, if there's any historians of the sport that are analyzing training blocks, like has this type of intensity in a training block from start to finish been ever been close to replicated?

42:52 I would be so curious to know. Like, has Walmsley ever done this? Has Rob Grar, Rachel, Courtney, Ruth? Like, so curious to know.

43:01 Do you think Anton came close to that at all?

43:04 I don't know, actually. I mean, I know I certainly know the volume was there. Uh, and I but I don't know the relative intensity of that volume.

43:12 I feel like Splot Jerry pushed really hard too. Again, maybe not the intensity, but the volume.

43:20 I'm actually in the process right now of re- I just finished rereading both his Eat and Run and North books uh and it was cool to like dig into his philosophy there. Your uh before we go, your your content of the week.

43:32 Mine's more of an observation. So being in Paris, Paris Fashion Week is happening. I am so struck by the amount of crossover of sports brands, outdoor brands with fashion right now. I think we know it's there, but seeing it, like walking along the Champs d'Elysée and seeing an on store, seeing a Solomon store.

44:00 Seeing, I mean, Nike's been a part of it for a while, but seeing these brands that I don't traditionally think of as like, yeah, they dip into fashion, but like literally on the road where I think of fashion as being the number one aspect of it. And then just seeing everyone running and just walking around in brands that are now being pushed, not pushed, but like accepted in the fashion world.

44:30 I think it's just very fascinating that either well, that both. I think that fashion is going into outdoor and outdoors becoming more accessible. And it's just really fascinating that these are the companies that are gaining a lot of visibility and traction right now. Yeah, it's just just my thoughts.

44:53 Yeah, yeah. What what brands were like what brands were you seeing out there most present?

44:57 A lot of on Solomon, uh Hokas, always been around. But I mean the amount of people wearing running packs. I saw an instinct packed pack on someone I wouldn't expect. You know, it's just it's uh a lot of a lot of Adidas roadshoes for sure. Yeah, I just very I've been just in this observation. Also, just the amount of people running is mind-boggling to me here.

45:29 Like you run along the sun and it's just crowds of people. Which I I mean pretty amazing.

45:39 Really interesting observation. I uh I don't know if this fits here, but I and I I still think I I probably still think this is paramount now, but like conventional wisdom for me has been if you're a shoe brand and if you're trying to make it into the mass market, the automatic rationale is like, okay, like if we're if we're trail native, we need to build a road shoe as soon as possible to reach that much more people.

46:05 But it seems like with the moment running is at in general, and sure, maybe building like a road product is something that you inevitably have to factor for. But also just given how much of a fashion statement running is now, like if you can start and trail, and then like your next move or the concurrent move is to also just be a shoe that like the fashion community wants to wear, and then things trickle into the mainstream from that.

46:34 Like if if you're a speed land or and I know Mount to Coast has already built like road product, but like Mount to Coast, Norda, normal, these challenger brands, it seems like like that kind of works right now.

46:49 And again, I'm not discounting the move into road at all, but if you know because I I think that the general population is just looking for something that looks different and cool. And I will say I think trail shoes have a different look than what we're accustomed to, so they don't care if there's traction.

47:11 Yeah, if there's lugs, what the stack height is, they're like, this looks cool. I don't fall down. And they don't even care about falling down. But I am just so curious to see, like, oh, trail fashion is becoming fashion.

47:29 And broadly speaking, running is alive and well. It's thriving in Paris.

47:34 It is thriving, that is for sure.

47:38 That's great. Well, okay. Uh, we will be back next Monday. We'll probably have a lot more to say. We'll definitely have a lot more to say, I should say, about Diagonal Defu, some of these travelers, Kodiak, Defy, Moab, etc. Alyssa, great to have you again this week and uh safe travels from Paris to reunion.

47:59 Thanks so much.