Moab 240 Canceled, Jim Walmsley’s “Late Entry” Hint + Ben Dhiman’s Coaching Search (Singletrack News)

0:00 Welcome back or welcome to the Single Track Podcast. I'm your host, Finn Milliansen, and wow, I am pretty exhausted. Jules and I race directed this past weekend, our last one of the season, the fall classic. It was a lot of fun. And now having been in the race directing game for a bit, we're going on two years.

0:19 We just feel grateful that it went off without any major hiccups. There's too many people to name to thank, but we have upwards of 50 people in that category who volunteered their time to make it all work. Anyways, before we get started, have to give thanks to Precision Fuel and Hydration. They support this show.

0:35 They also support our events. Their drink mixes, gels, shoes were all out on course. And you know you make good product when we had nothing left in storage. After the fact, all the runners, volunteers uh took it all, which is great. We also had precision athlete Caleb Olson Racing. He won the 50K. And we have a sweet new vlog about it actually coming out later this week on the Single Track YouTube channel.

0:59 Go check it all out. All their stuff at precisionhydration.com. Please use code singletrack at checkout for 15% off your next order. Also, thanks to Norda, makers of my favorite trail running shoes. Even though I am in full marathon training mode for CIM right now, I am excited later this winter to spend more time on the trails.

1:18 And I've been particularly missing their 005 model. If you haven't seen it already, they've got a bunch of new-ish colorways that have come out. I'm looking at the Zephyr colorway, the stealth black one, and the laser versions. They all look sweet. Go check them all out at NordaRun.com. This is the Monday, October 12th edition of Singletrack News, joined by Alyssa Clark, who is out on Reunion Island.

1:44 Alyssa, how are you doing today?

1:46 Living the dream. It is just amazing out here. It feels you know, sometimes you come to a place and it feels like a home that even though you've never been there, you're like, oh yeah, there's a connection here. It feels like home. That's how it feels.

2:02 This is random, but I went to a wedding out in Asheville, North Carolina, two years ago. And Jules and I said the same thing about there. We got to Asheville and we were like, this place is really cool. And if we were ever to pivot off of Salt Lake City, yeah, Asheville's really cool. Sorry, I didn't mean to spiral this at Asheville, North Carolina, but how you felt there is how I felt about Asheville.

2:23 Yeah, I have heard such good things about Asheville. So yeah, I want to go there too. Yeah, I just I feel like there's some places that just are it's kind of like soul animals, soulmates, all that, just they're soul places. And um I this is one of them for me. I can already tell.

2:43 You called it a European Hawaii offline.

2:46 Yes. It's incredible. It's like kind of the dramatic landscape of kind of a big island where you have jungle and then you have volcano, you have you know, lots of different weather, microclimates, but then you can get a baguette and you're like everyone's speaking French, and it's really interesting because it has European feeling, but it's an island perspective, so people move slower, they're so kind and friendly.

3:22 There's no rush, everyone's like, Why are you which is very island lifestyle, having lived in Hawaii, where everyone's like, Where are you going? We're on an island, we got time, island time. And so it's just so fun seeing so many of because I've lived in Europe, I've lived in Hawaii, California, like kind of all of that concentrating in one place.

3:45 Yeah, it's it's just been awesome. Love it so far. The locals are so kind and friendly, and can't wait.

3:54 We'll say more about DDF uh towards the end of the episode, but we we have to start here. The cancellation of the Moab 240, it was canceled mid-race yesterday morning. This was a story that is uh already transcending the bubble of our sport. I saw an article on ABC News about it. Lots of videos on social media.

4:14 It is, of course, the social media era, so things, and I'm not even sure it's possible to blow this out of proportion, but I've seen videos all across the board, some crazy, uh, crazy, like instantaneous river crossings that these runners had to do that looked borderline. I mean, it looked like they were cheating death in some circumstances.

4:35 I've seen a lot of passionate commentary across the board. I am personally devastated for all involved, including the race directors, including race management, the athletes, some, including on the competitive side, people like Aaron Kubala and Ashley, who were so close, they were chasing triple crown victories records.

4:53 Did seem like it was, you know, in that moment the right call to make. But of course, a lot more to say here. Based on what you've seen, I know you're, you know, over on Regina Island, Alyssa, but what you followed on social, you've heard from people on the ground. What did you see and hear that you think is important to kind of relay here on the news program?

5:13 Yeah, I mean, 100% it's gone mainstream. I've had people who, friends and family, being like, Have you heard about Boab? And then they're like, Of course you have. You know, but it's definitely transcended. It's always very interesting how when something jumps into the mainstream, the stories, you know, it gets start getting called like a maritime, you know, there's just things that get lost in translation when there's not the knowledge and vocabulary that we carry into uh the situation.

5:45 I have to start, first of all, I'm so glad right now. I I think everyone is safe and healthy, and that that is number one. And what a honestly, I think a miracle that that is the case, kind of hearing the stories that are coming out of the situation, people getting stuck, just the issues of hypothermia.

6:11 Like there is so many really dangerous factors going into a flooding desert. I mean, it just doesn't things change so rapidly. So that's number one. I'm so glad everyone is safe. Um, number two, I think you know, really devastating. I was so heartbroken to see Aaron not be able to complete that. Ashley, all of the these athletes that put so much time and effort.

6:39 But I think at the end of the day, we do things in wild places, and sometimes Mother Nature wins. And I think often we forget that that is the case. And this was just Mother Nature saying, Nope, you're like this is the way it's gonna be. And I think you have to respect that. And you know, I'm thinking about what what could destination have done differently?

7:07 They could have canceled the race altogether, which I think would have been incredibly devastating to people. They could have moved it, which often doesn't work because of people's schedules. They have all of the planning. So I just think it's it's a combination where I don't think there's a lot of other options.

7:24 So I think they did what they needed to do. Everyone's safe. Mother Nature won this one, and you know, it's it's just unf a really unfortunate part of racing and traveling long distances in volatile weather areas. Yeah, what are your thoughts, Finn?

7:46 I my thoughts on this have changed so much in so many different directions in the last 24 hours. I think there were moments, frankly, where I had frustration with the race directing team. There were moments where I had frustration with the runners and the way that they were reacting to the decisions.

8:01 And I'm coming at this. My bias in this whole situation is uh coming from the perspective of a race director. Uh uh, with our events, we've actually, and frankly, we've been through hell ourselves this year. And a lot of it has been, almost all of it has been due to the weather. Some of the stuff's been out of our control.

8:19 Sometimes we've just plain old made mistakes that we regret uh making. My first thought here is heading into the event, I am choosing to believe that the team at Moab 240 saw forecasts, at least a few, that they felt were optimistic for this event to go off with maybe some drama and you know, some quote-unquote interesting weather to continue with.

8:45 Yes, exactly. That is important to say it did pour last year. And over a three to four day stretch, it is incredibly rare that you're gonna find a a window where it's that you the runners aren't challenged to some degree. So I am I am I am choosing to believe that they saw a forecast or two that they felt was optimistic enough, safe enough for these runners to make uh, you know, safe passage through and in completing their multi-day journey.

9:13 I think they absolutely made the right call, uh canceling it mid-race. Sometimes runners, if you're not in the event management scene, you forget that there's a whole other cohort of people out there who are braving the elements, and that is the volunteers. And I saw a ton of videos. Was it Gibson Jack?

9:32 Was that the aid station? Uh Bridger Jack. Bridger Jack, sorry, Bridger Jack. I'm thinking of uh the Scout Mountain 100. Bridger Jack. I mean, the winds were so powerful, and this was actually happening at the Fall of Classic too this past week, and the winds were so powerful they couldn't keep tents on the ground.

9:46 And then you layer on just like pissing rain, the sheets of rain that were coming down, and it was just getting so dangerous. I think they got stranded out there due to flooding. So it got to a point where it wasn't even just about runner safety. It was are these aid stations even able to provide aid to runners?

10:03 So, yeah, we I mean, I think we frankly, I mean, we're we're reacting to this 24 hours after everything's happened. I think that the mature thing to do is to give it time. I would love to hear from more runners as they have time to reflect on this. I would love to hear from the race directing team. Actually, I in my notes, I wrote down this is from the political scene, but there was a we we need a podcast at some point in time, like like a regular recurring podcast from race directors in our scene who are willing to recount lessons from the years that have gone bad.

10:43 What we learned, what we would do differently next time, general insights from the scene. There was a great podcast about 10 years ago. It was a Huff Post podcast, excuse me, hosted by Sam Stein and Jason Shurkis. And it was called Candidate Confidential, where they interviewed candidates from across the political parties who came up short in their bids for governor, senator, president.

11:05 And, you know, it would be sort of two parts. You'd get the emotional picture of what it was like to lose, but also maybe more importantly, the lessons. Really good. And they it kind of just like stopped abruptly. Like they did 40 or 50 episodes. It was fantastic. I tuned in every week, and I we need that for this.

11:22 And I I think it would be fantastic if I mean I'd be happy to do this, but like if the Moab team could come and just and just like say, like, what did we learn? And like what did we find out in this edition, especially for this burgeoning multi-day scene that we can share with other race directors in the scene, like Steve at Arab uh at Kokodona and Tim at Mammoth, uh the team at Tor, etc.

11:45 Um, yeah. So those are my initial thoughts.

11:48 No, I love that. I don't know if you've ever listened to the sharp end, but it's about North American accidents in the climbing scene. And people come on and they'll they go through scenarios where they're like, this is what happened, this is what and they'll kind of do scene scenarios and then takeaways, lessons learned, um, things they did well.

12:09 And yeah, I think that would be so helpful because I'm sure that there were things that were done extremely well, and there are things that we can improve upon. And and the stakes are high. You know, these are this this are big deals. Having people out for many days on a course, there are big consequences.

12:29 I like I just can't imagine how cold runners were spending the night in an aid station unexpectedly and like trying to support that. There's just so many parts of it that are it was rough out there. Like it just looked so rough. And again, just so glad everyone's okay. But it would be incredible because the only way we learn is to debrief.

12:57 And like, hey, this is what we figured out from this really kind of massive event that made national news.

13:08 Audience should know you won this race back in 2022. So you know this area intimately. You know how quickly the weather can change on a dime, how places that are dry all of a sudden can be these flash flood areas. I mean, the reason deserts are deserts, it's not because they don't necessarily get water, it's because they can't absorb water properly.

13:26 They can't absorb it. Yep. And the trails turn, I mean, just disastrous. They get they're so muddy, they're so saturated because they it doesn't handle it well. Uh, I mean, it handles it as a desert should, but that's it, you know, it doesn't absorb things very well. Um, I mean, it did not rain during my MOAC, but I went from not probably 90 degree weather uh in one section to taking a dirt nap and a snowstorm on the LaSalle's.

14:00 Like it is such a huge range of temperature, weather, etc. Um, so it's yeah, it it's these are consequential races.

14:12 I'm just trying to think of objection handling here. And I think there's gonna be a lot of there might be a contingent of people in the audience listening who will say, look at the era we're in. Like, have runners gotten soft? Have races gotten soft? You know, people signed up for this. Even Candace has that whole spiel at the start of a race where it's like if I get her lost, whatever, it's my own damn fault.

14:35 Yeah, originally from um Cabayo Blanco.

14:38 Originally from, yeah, and and I think look, there there certainly are races in our scene that exist with that theme, that sort of like modus operandi, where I mean Barclay obviously is the best example where it is truly extreme ownership out there. You touch the gate, you go to your loop, everything is on you, and I get that.

14:57 But I and maybe this is my bias coming in. I think for most races in the scene, because there are multiple stakeholders involved, I have to bring the volunteers back in because you're not just accountable to the runners, you're also accountable to volunteers out there who are trying to facilitate the experience for the runners instantaneously.

15:16 Crews were getting stuck and then abandoning vehicles. Like you just, it's so multi-dimensional.

15:23 Yeah. Yeah. And I think again, also for people that are looking for maybe for me to like be like, we need accountability here, here, and here. Like, let's let's bury these people's stake. I can't. And I have to I'll just to just to show my cards here. I'll give you an example of how we messed up, and this is to the audience, Alyssa, like Twisted Fork this year.

15:41 We saw multiple forecasts where we felt like this event is going to go off, it's gonna be great, it'll be good by the environment, good by the runners, goodbye apartment holders, et cetera. And then we got hit by in that the morning of the race by a freak storm, and it dumped instead of a tenth of an inch of rain over 24 hours, it dumped a half inch in a three-hour period, and we messed up some mountain biking trails, and we had to pay the consequences.

16:04 And I think the biggest mistake we made there was unlike Moab, who obviously was able to pivot in the moment and uh cancel mid-race, we didn't really have thorough operations in place for mid-race pivots, mid-race cancellations, giving eight station captains the authority to report back to us to say, hey guys, I think things are deteriorating out here.

16:29 You know, the runners are fine, but like they're really, you know, doing some damage to these mountain biking trails. I think we should pause or cancel, or maybe don't even send off the 30k because we were doing like waves of starts. So I even though I've had different thoughts over the past few hours and days right now, like I'm just kind of sitting there humble with the race structure because I know how I know how tough this this situation is.

16:51 And I all I ask for is that we have some, because I know Moab's done a decent job at communicating the last few hours on social. It would be great, I think, to have these folks on a podcast to hear what they've learned, candidate confidential style. I think it'd be great for the community, great for our uh our group of professionals doing it.

17:09 Yeah. I I just think also maybe this call me soft. That's fine. I've never found a race that was worth risking my life or health, long-term health over. I just don't think that exists. And I do think that there was they were at a point where people were in danger. And we've seen catastrophes happen enough in this sport not to do that.

17:43 Yep. Maybe last thing, maybe maybe, maybe there are, maybe there's information that we don't have right now where we need accountability. But I don't know if 24 hours after the event, while the dust hasn't settled yet, it's the time and the place. But again, like I think this is, and maybe we talk about this again next week as we have more information.

18:04 But first thoughts are just like, man, like you said earlier, I hope I'm glad every everyone appears to be alive, safe, no one died. That's fantastic. Yeah. John G is the official apparel partner of the Single Track Podcast, and we actually have an exciting project with them in the works. Earlier this summer, my friend Chris Shane and I did a four-day fast pack of the Whites 100 route in New Hampshire while using John G's Revy pack and staying in lodges along the way.

18:30 The vlog is a fun look at the Northeast Trail Running scene and in particular that corridor between North Conway and Glencliff, some of my favorite mountains and cultural touch points anywhere in the sport. Make sure you are subscribed to the Single Track YouTube channel. Should get published sometime in the next one to two weeks.

18:46 Other than that, go check out some of the new arrivals at John G's uh website, including their pinnacle rain shell and pants, their merino balaclava, and boreal fleece tights. Again, check it all out. John G.com forward slash singletrack. And if you buy anything at checkout, make sure to mention that we sent you.

19:04 Also, thanks to Raid, the official equipment partner of Single Track. Are you familiar with their trail tech system by now? If not, it is their suite of products. Yeah, it's their suite of products. I'm getting tired, guys. Um, this is just from event weekends, not because of Raid. Raid's amazing. Uh, it's their suite of products engineered to advance the freedom of human power movement.

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19:42 Next up here, Ben Dieman looking for a coach question mark on Instagram last week. I don't want to read this off Alyssa for the audience who might not have tuned into Instagram. I coached myself to a win at UTMB, yet I believe there's more in me. I'm looking for a performance coach to help develop that potential, someone to challenge my thinking, sharpen my prep, and take ownership of training, planning, and analysis.

20:01 I want to bring more expertise and precision to my approach while making better use of my time and energy. This is a paid role with a long-term partnership in mind. Full details and application instructions at the link in the bio. Coaches from adjacent sports, including cycling, triathlon, schemo, and cross-country skiing, are encouraged to apply.

20:21 Know someone who could be a good fit. Please pass this along. End quote. Your thoughts.

20:26 I loved it. I was like, I've never have you seen an athlete put out applications for a coach to apply in other sports. I don't I know if this happens in cycling or I I haven't seen this before.

20:45 I I'm racking my brain. If I if if something comes around, I'll let you know later, but that's a good question. It's a good prompt to put out there.

20:52 I loved it. I was like, that's cool. You know, why not throw throw the the nut out and see who comes up? I have a couple of ideas. The the name that immediately comes to my head is Jack Tunsil. I feel like that could be a really interesting fit. But also I would love to see Ben end up with like a swim coach, you know, something completely outside the box that comes in and thinks about our sport in such a different way.

21:27 I think that'd be incredible. What do you what are your thoughts?

21:31 So it w we're at the tail end of 2026, and I always I I I love just framing this stuff in historical terms. And it's it will never not be fascinating to me that maybe 12 to 15 years ago, you know, you have Jason Coop, who is one of the first, if not the first, coach in the old trending sphere who literally had to go knock on doors and and beg athletes to take a chance on him and to let him.

22:00 You know, sort of like prove out his model and his worth as a coach. Like the idea of a coach in ultras running, even in the early 2010s, very recent history, was a wild thing. So I love that we've or I find it interesting that the sport has professionalized so rapidly that this is like one of the new norms.

22:21 You know, I I put this public announcement around uh, you know, looking for a coach. I put this sort of on the same level as, and I know press conferences have been going on for a while, but when when Jim took it upon himself before Western this year to call a press conference and to invite all the media to go and do it that way, consolidating his interview responsibilities, I think it's it's symbolic.

22:46 So found that interesting. You know, it wouldn't be the first time. He's he he has been working with a strength coach for the past year. I think he found that there was massive leverage that came out of that, huge upside. So maybe he's like, look, I do now see the benefit in outsourcing. Maybe I have wanted to protect the intellectual property of my gains the past few years, but I'm ready to outsource that too.

23:11 And then I just wrote down a bunch of open questions here. Uh the first one is there any indication for Ben that he wouldn't be capable of producing the next breakthrough on his own? Is that sort of the motivation here? Or, you know, he does mention making better use of his time and energy. He's a he's a dad.

23:29 There's a lot of other stuff going on, sponsor obligations. Is it is it that? Uh, you know, when we had him on the pod back in September, he said he trains more than anyone at UTMB, and he broadly described his methodology as quote unquote big macro lines, Jackson Pollock gestures, and that he puts his body into a box until it solves the problem.

23:50 So I'm curious like how he allows a coach to break up that. And then the last thing for me here, last open question. Is there a 2027 goal that he feels makes this necessary? So is it a faster UTMB? When we talked to him in September, he was interested in the Western States UTMB double because it is such a complicated problem, at least for the professional men in our sport, not necessarily the women who've done great with it.

24:17 So, yeah, a lot of open questions for me, but I think I I think it could be a symbolic moment in the sport that we look back on.

24:23 Yeah. I loved it. I was excited to see it of just what an interesting exactly, I think, you know, moments, markers.

24:36 Okay. I love that this is two straight weeks now of pro athlete center sport giving us these like open-ended content pieces to just like deliberate on. Like last week it was Courtney being like, hey, where should I race in 2027? Ben puts out the open call for coaching. Now, Jim, you know, when he does use social, this is, you know, he's he's kind of teasing us.

25:00 Like, I am gonna race again in in these next three months, where I'll let you know. I'm gonna read this Instagram post to you. He says, Despite less than preferred racing this year, I've still been training well and putting in lots of time in the mountains. It's been way too gorgeous of a September here in the Alps not to be outside a lot.

25:16 After I wasn't able to be ready in time for UTMB, I wasn't sh I wasn't sure what was going to line up or when I would be ready to race next, but I'm very excited. I'll be finding a starting line this October. Watch out for those late entries. Prior to today, Alyssa, from what I saw across message boards, social, et cetera, it seemed like the community had boiled it down to either Havelina, your race, Diagonelle DeFu, or Tomple.

25:44 You know, he did, I think some people ruled out Javelina because he highlighted spending a lot of time in the mountains and in the Alps. And then you pointed out that earlier this morning he posted a long thing about his history with Diagonelle and it's not going to be Diagonal this year. So to me it seems like Tom Play is the answer.

26:05 Your thoughts here.

26:07 Yeah. Well it has to be October. My thought actually, as you were talking, was also like, oh, maybe it's Cape Town. But he said October. Cape Town's November. Probably Tom Play. That would make sense. Yeah. I Havelena, yeah, Havelina would make sense as well, but I agree. I don't think that he would be spending a lot of time in the mountains for that.

26:40 I'm just glad that we get at least one more A race that Jim is in this year. Um yeah, I think getting what I was I was concerned after U Tam B. I know when he was talking on Free Trail, there was still like a hope that he could rebound for some time in the fall and looks like we're going to get it. So fantastic.

26:59 Next up here, a little bit of uh a preview of Big's backyard. The 2026 Backyard Ultra World Team Championship takes place on October 17th, 2026. It operates, Alyssa, I think really interestingly, as a global team event where national squads of 15 runners compete simultaneously in their home countries.

27:21 The Central U.S. gathering is the one in Bellbuckle, Tennessee at Laz's house. Team Belgium is the reigning global champions. They even, this is kind of cool. I don't know. These teams have team managers. Their team manager is Tim Devrant, and the team is stacked. Ivo Steyer, Merjin, Geertz, and Kenneth Bonthew to name a few.

27:42 Team USA, super experienced. Megan Smith, Jennifer Rousseau, Stephanie Rosebaugh, Harvey Lewis, John Noel, Mark Dowdle, Scott Snell, Greg Fall. For the audience that might not be tuned into the backyard scene, this is sort of how it works. Simultaneous start lines are start times. So every national event around the world starts at the exact same moment on the 17th because of different time zones.

28:05 Some teams compete in the start in the morning. Others begin their first loop in the middle of the night, which is really wild. 15 runners per country, as I mentioned earlier. In terms of the scoring system, every individual yard, which is a 4.167 mile loop completed within an hour, counts as one point for that nation.

28:24 The team's total score is the sum of all the loops completed by all 15 runners. I think, Alyssa, the wildest piece of it is that basically for a team to win, you have to have like the assist in the backyard is amplified at this international competition level. Like it really comes down to which nation has the best second best runner.

28:49 Uh, you cannot win the team title with just like one superstar. Like if you're Australia, just because you have Phil Gore, I mean, that's great, but it doesn't mean a lot if you can't get Phil to lap 78 or whatever, you know? Like you really need like a depth of a squad.

29:06 Does it end in the country when like there's only one person left?

29:12 Yes. So like Phil could be having the day of his life, or for the U.S., Stephanie Rosebaugh could be having the days of her lives, you know. But if there isn't a runner with her to get her to more loops, like you're out. So this really truly is a team thing. I find it fascinating. Uh yeah, I'm reading right here.

29:31 Under official backyard rules, a race can only continue if there are at least two runners starting a loop. Once a national satellite event is down to its final runner, that runner can only complete one solo loop to win their national event, which brings that specific that specific country's scoring to an end.

29:48 The overall world team champion is the country whose 15 runner squad accumulates the highest combined number of loops across the entire global network.

29:59 Love it. That's fun. I like that.

30:03 So I don't know. I f I thought I thought that was interesting to bring up just because, you know, we get excited every two years currently for the Trail World Championships, which in 2027 are taking place in Cape Town. And I mean, there's this team competition too. It's it's actually kind of organized pretty rapidly as the backyard concept has gotten more popular in the last few years.

30:24 And yeah, I for five days out from now, so we've got Diagonal DeFu this weekend, and we've got Biggs and the international championship there, which is fun.

30:38 There's some action this uh this time of year. It's fun.

30:43 Some results to go through. Deffy Day Couloir, I talked to Dan Kurtz last night at length about this. He gave me a solid debrief. I didn't realize how massive the event was. 6,000 total participants, more than 200 elite entries. First time the World Cup final, the WMRA World Cup final was not in Europe.

30:58 Apparently, at this race, the quality of support for the elite athletes was excellent. If we expand the East Coast to eastern Canada as well, this was a huge event. Uh, I mean, I really appreciated the scale here after learning it was 6,000 total participants. I mean, that's as big as anything, if not bigger, in the U.S.

31:18 Philemon Kiriago and Nina Engelhard won the updown race. Mika Bowden, Rousseau, and Nina again won the uphill races. Top seven men were within a minute of each other in the uphill race. Massively international top tens. I saw Kenya, the US, Canada, Mexico, Italy, Great Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland, all represented.

31:37 Nina finished eighth overall in the up-down classic. I watched the live stream moment there, super cool. I don't know if you followed this, but just uh, I mean, did you know that this was a 6,000-person event?

31:50 When I was looking up kind of the results and everything, I noticed how many races there were. There's a bunch of dis different distances. So I love that they incorporated you know, really elite racing into a bigger festival feeling. And that was awesome. Also loved that the start of one of the races, there was someone riding a horse with a giant Canadian flag.

32:15 It was awesome. I was like, how do you not start sprinting after that? I would lose my mind.

32:24 For folks that want to go back in time, the live stream for this is available on the World Athletics YouTube page. We also had Kodiak results this weekend. I'll rip through these. Cody Poskin and Nicole Abma won the 100 mile. Jose Jimenez and Lottie Brinks won the 100K, Tabor Heming and Joakim Castle won the 21k.

32:41 The 50K appeared to be sort of the premier event here. It had a live stream. They've also got recap videos up on the UTMB YouTube channels for it. Cole Campbell won the 50K. I got to watch a bit of this. Sort of a come from behind victory. Eli took it out super hot. Eli Hemming and led by a margin for a bit, but about halfway, Cole closed it and then was up by 40 seconds.

33:02 Really, some, I mean, I got to credit the live stream here. There was some really cool downhill running action to watch. It appears that Cole is debating OCC versus Worlds next year. I think he wants to be on that American team. So we'll see. Anna Gibson on the women's side, it was her first 50K. She won, qualified for OCC.

33:21 I think she's a maybe there. This wraps up her season. I'm missing a couple here, but like six at Sears and all, six that broken down with 23K, great season. Cameron Graves, this was a new name to me. She was second, was also new to the distance. And then shout out to Liz O'Connor, who rounded up the podium.

33:37 She's is a Salt Lake local, so strong. She won our 30K race at Twisted Fork back in May in those crazy elements. So yeah. Broad strokes there. Any thoughts on Kodiak?

33:50 I mean, I love that race. It's right in my backyard. I was pretty bummed to miss it. Uh just kind of a beautiful way to wrap up the season. You know, I think it's always a very interesting event. It's a it's a major. There's 10 spots up for grabs on both sides. Um yeah, so it's always kind of interesting to see.

34:11 I think you get late ads and then a lot of late um uh DNS's. So the fields I feel like shake up quite a bit. I do think the woman's 50k was kind of the the race of the weekend. So exciting to see that coverage. Love to see Anna, she was coming off some big travel from New Zealand and just pulling out that 50k win.

34:34 But it's exciting to see tighter racing. And I loved that that was happening in especially the 50k race.

34:42 Gotta, before we get to our preview of Diagonal, I gotta just shout out some awesome FKT action out in New England. David Sinclair's Pemi Wilderness Loop FKT. This is an iconic loop in New Hampshire's White Mountains. 30 miles, just under 10,000 feet of climbing, rugged terrain, treacherous underfoot for lots of it.

35:02 He runs it in 5011, which took 26 minutes off Jordan Field's supported time and 31 minutes off Jake Asido's unsupported time. David ran it unsupported. It's it's hard to understate how impressive this was. David has put up monumental performances on the racing for many years. This FKT, if you know it, is incredible.

35:27 A lot of people have talked about how some of these routes, some of these premier routes up in New England, like the PEMI, the Prezi, the Hutt Traverse, because they have had such thorough activity and the people that have the FKTs currently have really brought like a certain level of excellence to them.

35:43 Some people thought that they were quote unquote closed. David goes and takes 30 minutes off, just incredible. Uh, there's an interview that he just did on the Run the Whites podcast with Andrew Drummond. So if you're curious for a more detailed breakdown, go check that out. The other thing to shout out, Will Peterson just set a brand new unsupported time on the Hundred Mile Wilderness, 26 hours, 55 minutes.

36:05 He took 32 minutes off of Austin Black's time set earlier this summer. The record is getting more and worse out here. I've always thought that the 100 Mile Wilderness is sort of like the hallmark route in Maine. Um we need to see more women on this route. This is a shout out. Alyssa, you got to go do this.

36:21 It is, I believe it is one of the coolest routes anywhere. And I'm happy to go into more detail into it offline. But um we've seen a lot of action on the men's side for this route in the past few years. I have a whole list of people, Brianna Karboski, a few others that are local, Karabaskin and window that I would love to go see tackle this for the first time or again.

36:41 But uh yeah, fantastic. Just huge shout out to Will. The the route is really leveling up there. And I'm not saying it's quite at the level of some of these routes over in New Hampshire, but it's getting there, and Will's a major force on the scene. So shout out to Will.

36:55 Yeah, no, I love that. I I have family in Maine, so it'd be super fun to give that a shot. But I cannot, I mean, my jaw was on the ground when I saw David Sinclair's record. Just knowing the technicality, and then I was looking at his Strava, I was like, Like, I'm I'm speechless at how a curl he just threw down a mammoth like two weeks ago.

37:23 I know won the course record, won the 50k, said he's back from injury, David's back baby, better than ever. Also, it's so fun personally because Jordan Fields, um, David Sinclair, who's married to Izzy Caldwell. I grew up skiing with them. Like my brother raced David in cross-country running and skiing.

37:47 And so these are all people that I was on Team Vermont or Team New England with for Nordic skiing. So it's just so fun to see the translation of just these absolute savages that you're like, yeah, I remember you when you were in high school. Like, this makes sense. So personally, it's just so fun.

38:08 I'm I'm glad you're giving them their due too, because even though they might not be national names, people like Jordan Fields and Jake Casita, for example, they are incredible athletes, forces on that scene, and uh like their performances prior to David's commanded quite a bit of awe, you know. So this was this was a this was a big one.

38:30 Yeah. Brita Clark, super strong athlete out of New England. Yeah, there's they're just another breed, and I loved them.

38:40 Okay. Uh Diagonal Defu starts this coming Thursday. On the men's side, a few names. Tom Evans, Josh Wade, John Philippe Shumi, Goti Eriu, Hugo Deck, Thibaut Gravier, Vincent Esmial, Alyssa Clark, Ruth Croft, Marion Hogan, Emma Stewart, Minon Bohar, just to name a few. I mean, you know, we we haven't talked a ton about Diagonal in the past.

39:04 I've tuned into live streams, I've read some of the old trip reports. Uh, when we were prepping for a Joe Grant interview earlier this summer, I went and just like looked back at, you know, his performances and experiences out there. But I still think we deserve some table setting. I mean, what should what should our predominantly American audience appreciate about this race in this course?

39:26 Yeah, you know, it's so famous in France. It's like iconic in France. I mean, people who I was talking to a friend who's not a runner, he's just a climber, and he's like, You're going to reunion? Are you doing diagonal defoe? Like, how does this random Parisian know about diagonal? Like, it's wild. And so there's a lot of mystique and energy and history around the race for I think France and Europe, and less so in the US.

39:55 If in the US, if you know it, you love it. You're but I think it's still relatively unknown. It's interesting because there's been several comparison graphics to UTMB kind of side by sides. Um, this year's course is the I think the longest it's ever been or pretty close. It's over 110 miles. So it's a little bit longer than UTMB.

40:21 It is, I think, either it's just over 10,000 meters or so. It's like 3132, again, very similar. The distribution of vertical is quite different. It's you're getting massive changes in climate. You get high, it's colder, but you're getting that humidity the whole time. It's very hot during the day, which for a later season race, I think can can be challenging.

40:49 Um, it's very technical underfoot, uh, that jungly like rocks, roots, um, mud, etc. And so I think that I think it's like Hurt 100 and UTMB had a baby and they made diagonal. That's how I would put it. Yeah.

41:10 My only beyond some of the reports I discussed, uh Dylan Bowman made some great content. He had like a whole vlog series and lead up to his run there a few years back. I think there he even made a movie about it, which was great. So it gives you insight into how rugged, how even remote some parts of the course are, and then how I mean from what I could tell, how immersive the experience is.

41:31 Like, you know, Alyssa, you and I will go to Shamini, and I always feel like even when I'm in Sham, I feel there's like a confidence I feel culturally, just because I feel like they accompany there's they do so much to accommodate just like English speaking, for bet again, for better or worse, and just like still getting to be an American over there if you want.

41:48 But I feel like when you go to reunion, you are kind of going into the cultural deep end and like you have to just be like one with the French culture there, etc.

41:58 Yeah, and they're so welcoming. I mean, there's literally a tent at the airport where they are welcoming you and giving you drinks and dancing and everywhere across the island. They love this race and it's so beautiful, it's so heartwarming to see the joy and pride in the islands. Like, give it's like the island is giving us a race, and I think that that is very palpable.

42:32 Where I think some races it's like you know, it's really treading on the locals where it's like there's not that love as much. This is like they truly like this is the island's gift to the ultra any world. And I think that that's very, very feasible, very tangible. And so I think if you can open your heart to that, I'm sounding a little woo-woo, but that's kind of how it feels.

42:57 It's like if you open your heart to that, like it's there.

43:02 For folks that will tune into the live stream uh later this week, help them understand like what you see as the cruxes of the course. Is it a uniform course? Does it change throughout? Like, do you dip in through towns and back into the mountains? Like how you you mentioned it is sort of like a cross between HERT and UTMB, but um, is it is it a is it a classic European race in the sense that like you have that interaction between the towns and the mountains?

43:25 So yes, yes, yes and no, I'll say you have there's a big climb to kind of get up into the interior of the island, which if you know islands, the interior is the part that does not love humans. It's not catering to us being there. So you get into the interior and it's super rugged, and there's a few points of towns and there are a lot of aid stations.

43:57 I mean, I prepared, I think, like 17 or 18 drawers. like bags because there's actually a local uh man here for Brees who has team daff and he work he works for the university. He has all of his university students helping like so many athletes out. So we're giving drop like bags to them. They help us at aid stations because you can't get to all the aid stations.

44:21 So you know there is a lot of support along the way, but when you're in the interior of the island, it feels very remote and very um kind of out there, but you really aren't too much too far away from the next aid station. Uh but the aid stations are very hard to get into like you're driving up into the island for the middle section.

44:47 Once you get out um out of the Mafate and then up over Maido, you do drop down into like back to the coastline and then you're hitting a couple of towns so it feels much I think more like that European style. But one of the major bases is Halleborg which is again it's like this you're a little tiny European town got like dropped into Hawaii.

45:17 It's crazy. You got to come out sometime.

45:21 I would love to get out there as well as next year. And I yeah I know there's a whole contingent from Salt Lake that would love to as well I'll point this out and I I was going to share this as one of my content pieces but I think it's relevant here. There's a website a listener of the show emailed it to us uh maybe a week ago and it's called ultramonuments.com and a lot of folks in the sport consider UTMB or Diagonal Defu on the same pedestal as UTMB, Western States and Hard Rock is sort of like the big four in our sport for the distance.

45:50 This Ultra Monument site has created leaderboards for top cumulative times and histories across all four races. And then if you just dive deeper into the site it's really cool they have a tab for professional athletes like Ulysses who are one race away from completing all four monuments. So for example Zach Miller has done all but diagonal defu.

46:11 My name Bohart is missing Western the tab that I found the most interesting was they have this tab for the most common they have a they've done an analysis of which is the most common sequence that professional athletes follow to complete all four of these races. And I think before finding this tab, if someone had just asked me to guess I would have said huh I I would assume you'd start probably with UTMB because it's the easiest to get into or maybe Western I would say western would have been Yeah and then like your your your last two are going to be either hard rock or diagonal defu.

46:51 The most common sequence among the pros was starting with diagonal de foo, ending with hard rock and like sort of like seesawing either Western or UTMB in the middle. My plan was to do diagonal first oh yeah that's funny yeah diagonal UTMB hard rock maybe I'll do Western states one day but yeah I would be I would be curious to know of the of the ones that have done all four or that have at least studied all four pretty extensively maybe you have an answer here Lissa like what you think would be the appropriate sequence if we think of it in terms of college degrees where it's like one of these is an associate's degree one of them's a bachelor's one of them's a master's and then like this one is

47:36 like is hard rock the PhD you know?

47:39 Yeah it's tough. I think it depends on your strengths as a runner I would say western to start with because and I'm this is getting blown out but like you know you speed just like you get a lot of support so maybe western number one of like hey nail the faster um more well supported race then I would say UTMB diagonal hard rock I think diagonal and UTMB could go kind of back and forth but I would yeah but I haven't run western I haven't run hard rock I've run I guess I've run Canyons and I've run URA so I've run kind of like adjacent ones.

48:25 I think just in terms of I think it depends too are you looking at it from a stance of a professional viewpoint or are you looking at it from a stance of um you know a a non-professional athlete because I think Western is the most approachable in terms of terrain um d also where you're coming from in the world.

48:48 Yeah I guess there's a lot of questions behind it but that's probably how I would put it.

48:53 Kodiak Cakes is the official breakfast partner of the show. For more than 30 years they have been making protein packed whole grain food to help fuel epic days from early morning trail runs to long days in the mountains they offer a wide range of convenient options for runners including flapjack and waffle mixes, oatmeal, bars, and more for busy mornings, Kodiak muffin cups make it easy to grab something warm and delicious before heading out the door.

49:18 They're now available in two new flavors apple cinnamon and pumpkin chocolate chip.

49:22 Whether you're gearing up for a run, refueling after a big effort or looking for something satisfying between adventures, Kodiak has options that fit easily into an active lifestyle find Kodiak at your local grocery store or explore the full lineup at Kodiakcakes.com wrapping up here what's your content of the week so my content is uh it launched at the Chicago Marathon this weekend but Alexi Pappas has started a company called Glop and it is uh sweat proof glitter like I guess all these people had kind of been coming up with uh different ways how to put glitter on their face and you know she's so known for glitter but I feel like so many other athletes are using glitter as so much of kind of

50:15 part of their racing strategy. And so yeah she just launched Glop Collective and I think the products are going to start being available but kind of a fun aspect I think to the sport of bringing in yeah that element so that's my content.

50:33 Finn did you have another one or well first I didn't realize that uh I mean that's first of all awesome I didn't realize that there was a pain point with glitter where like the interaction with sweat kind of defeats the purpose like it all washes off or something.

50:48 Yeah I think it's like you either put glue on your face and then put some like glitter there haven't really been like athletic glitter that's been created yet okay all right mine I have to give credit to Jimmy Elam here.

51:01 So he texted me this the other day I actually I didn't get back to him because we were in the throes of race directing but I am honoring him here with this shout out. If you get if you have your browser up listed check this out www.sandbar.com s-a-n-d-b-ar-r. It is a self-described interface company they have a product available for pre-order called Stream it looks like an UR ring it's a smart ring for talking to your phone without pulling it out you press the touchpad speak let it go it can save that as a note it can dictate text into other apps or it can answer questions through your earbuds or a speaker and the selling point here is speed and privacy compared to you know talking with or into

51:51 your phone or your earbuds and in short it's it's a it's a voice it's this really convenient sort of seamless voice notepad and AI assistant that you wear on your finger like I have my um my my wedding band on here it'd be like if you and I were talking and like I don't know I just like pulled aside for a second and just talked right here and like that would go into my phone.

52:12 I'm always typing notes into my phone so I found this really interesting.

52:16 Yeah.

52:17 I guess the the unusual idea here is that the assistant isn't supposed to feel like a separate character. Other like if you say something to Siri it might spit something back that sounds very robotic and I I think over time it starts to learn your cadence your tone oh you know all of your conversational ticks and glitches and it answers in this quote unquote inner voice that's partly modeled on your own voice.

52:43 So it feels like you're talking to yourself as well. Like you're like your self has so odd yeah so but I'm just thinking like I mean how often are you on a run where you're listening to a podcast or music or whatever. You just you're that's the time when thoughts start flowing and you want to just r remember something for later on then but you don't want to take your phone out or disrupt the flow.

53:08 I feel like this could be cool. My question because I haven't looked into it too deeply is does your phone need to be like Bluetooth connected? Does it need to be with you on the run or could you just go running with your ring and it like saves all that information here and then when you get back to your house and your phone it's there.

53:22 Because if that's the case, that's even better. I don't want to be with my phone all the time you know so if I'm just out on a run and the thoughts are flowing and I can just talk like this while I'm mid stride yeah. Yeah no I want this like this I would use this far too often wow all right yeah Jimmy thanks Jimmy that's awesome yeah Jimmy is is quite the gearhead and he's always kind of up to date on this stuff so we'll see I I did check it again and it looks like they it looks like a round of product went out back in July and there's if there's everything else is on pre-order now and if you want to try it you need to get it for January.

54:07 If anyone knows anyone at Sandbar we crazier things have happened what weirder connections have been made on single track.

54:13 So if anyone knows anyone at Glop or Sandbar let us know I'll try that glitter and I'll try that uh that ring I I do know the Glopp through so we can make we can make the glitter happen but the sandbar definitely cheers. Yeah.

54:30 Final thoughts from you Alyssa before we go this is a good one. Yeah lots to chat on lots of good news excited for it and uh super glad Finn shout out on a successful race weekend with the fall classic so really glad to hear that went well thank you and uh the single track on behalf of the single track community we are excited to follow your race on Thursday and wish you the best most importantly that you have you have fun out there and just soak in the scene.

54:59 Thank you