3 & Out - Panthers-Packers TNF Preview, Colts GM Job is AWFUL, Eagles are DYSFUNCTIONAL + NFL Week 8 Mailbag

0:01 The Volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing? John Middlecock, Three and Out Podcast. Hopefully you are doing well. We have, um, I was thinking a lot about the last 24 hours of this Colts fire sale. And moving forward, how desirable the gig is. We got a Thursday night football game. The Packers somehow are playing again on Thursday night at home before Halloween, which is nuts. And Sirianni and Nick Foles going at it a little bit. We'll do some mailbag questions as well. At John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram. Fire in those DMs. Get your questions answered here on the show. And you guys know the drill. If you listen on Collins Feed, make sure you subscribe to 3 and Out. We're up on

1:00 Netflix as well. You can go check that out. We got content up on the YouTube page, and we'll keep rocking and rolling. But I did want to start with the aftermath of yesterday from the Colts. They have an interim GM, fellow ball brother, slinging players all over the league, and it doesn't feel like he's done yet. Doesn't really feel like he got much value for Quentin Nelson, a first ballot Hall of Famer, and DeForest Buckner, a guy who's been a stud for the Colts since they traded a first-round pick for him. But that's not where I want to go here because Ed Dodds is not going to be the full-time GM. They will go out and they will hire someone. But I had a wise man once tell me when I first got into the NFL,

1:47 and this was a guy who became a GM at one point in time during his career, and he said, John, you know what? we are not coaches. We do not typically get second shots. Like, what do you mean? He's like, when you get your opportunity to become a GM, and especially if you are in position where you can tell in your career you're going to have some options, like you're going to have a chance to get a job, you better feel pretty confident about the launching pad for that job because probably going to be your only shot.

2:20 This is your one at bat. We are not coaches. He's like, coaches get multiple opportunities, and you don't have to be, let's use an example, John Harbaugh. Of course he got another opportunity. He had a long, distinguished resume. Of course if Tomlin wants to come back, he's going to get a second opportunity. Or Sean McDermott. But what about Robert Sala, who was a disaster with the Jets, takes one year to be a coordinator, and is immediately interviewing all over the place and gets a job? Kevin Stefanski.

2:53 If his career as a head coach had been the equivalent of a GM, you think he's, I mean, he was on the unemployment line for like five minutes. And I was like, that's a pretty good point. That's not how it worked. Joe Douglas, who was with Robert Sala, hand in hand, and you could argue did as good of a job, drafted a lot of high-end players, some on other teams, some still on his team. All those guys have a lot of value on the open market.

3:21 He's never going to be a GM ever again in his career. It's like, that makes sense. And I was thinking about, I grew up around a lot of people in the farming and construction business. And I would say those two businesses, at least in my youth growing up around it, my brother now works in it, are pretty volatile.

3:40 When times are good, they can be really good. With farmers, it's hard to tell. They're always kind of grumpy. Construction workers, you can tell. Newer truck, wife's driving a Range Rover. But when times are bad, they're devastating. And through my dad and the people he worked with and around, I saw a lot of people go belly up in the 90s and even as I got into college in the 2000s.

4:03 A lot of those guys bounce back. And if you look at them now, especially the ones still alive, times have been good. And I would say for most of us in a lot of industries, whether you're laid off, whether you're fired, whether you are a business owner and your company goes down, you are going to have other opportunities.

4:22 You're going to have to create them. But life is not over. Hell, you could stay in that industry if you haven't done something catastrophic to your own personal reputation and bounce back no problem. But when you're a general manager candidate, you better... You better get it right. Because I'd argue the Indianapolis Colts job is awful. I mean, terrible.

4:49 It's like, we got rid of Quinton Nelson to Forrest Buckner, and we have a third and a fourth round pick to show for it. Well, on a yearly basis, in NIL, a ton of guys that might have been there are going back to college. And just in general, the hit rate on those two picks... Seattle and the 49ers, that could easily be your NFC championship game. So you're talking about pick 88 and pick 127. Good luck. You don't have a first round pick. You have a disastrous situation at quarterback. You're going to have to eat money next year on the dead cap to get rid of Daniel Jones' corpse.

5:29 And there are a lot of questions with the owner. Now here's the thing. Most owners are probably pretty wacky. These people have an ungodly amount of money now. There's no one in their life at this point in time that is telling them something they don't want to hear. It's got to be a little bit of a bizarre way to live. You can be Michael Bidwell or you could be Robert Kraft or Stan Kroenke and you're getting the same check from the league. Money is affluent. So this notion, obviously there are better owners than others, but no matter who you sign up with, it's a tough situation.

6:07 But I'll use this as an example. Let's say the Jets, after this year, just fire everybody, which is always on the table when it comes to Woody Johnson, another guy viewed as kind of nutty. Now, you could say Jim Irsay was pretty nuts. Yeah, he was. But I did see people who were capable to work for him draft Peyton Manning and have a lot of success, and then Andrew Luck and go to the playoffs. We have no clue about this owner. But even if I just say, hey, she'll be no different than some of these other nutties because there's no way to argue that because she stands on the fucking sideline all dolled up taking notes. And it's misogynistic. Or it's just the wackiest shit we've ever seen.

6:51 I mean, no one else does that. And it's like, well, it's working for her. Actually, it's not. They suck. But here's the thing about the Jets, because you'd be like, God, you want to hit your wagon to Woody Johnson? Adam Schefter tweeted this today. He also posted it on threads. If the NFL draft were held today, the New York football Jets currently would hold the 6th, 9th, and 11th overall picks. Think about that. Now, Things could change. Obviously, they have the Colts pick. They have the best of the Cowboys Packers pick. And they have their own pick.

7:31 So they are flush. And it looks like last year, pretty good draft. Probably going to age pretty well. So if you are going to sign up for one of these nut jobs, because I would say at this point in time, they're all going to be a little nutty. And a lot of them, the aging ones, their kids are going to be heavily involved. And for some of these guys who were self-made and created it, their kids are definitely not. And most of them at this point inherited the franchise. So you get someone like Carly Ursae Gordon.

8:04 She's like a fifth-generation Nepo baby. And listen, I've known a lot of people who were born into good situations that went on to be very successful. So I know Nepo baby, if you get on Twitter or Instagram or whatever, everyone's just a loser. I've met some people that were born on third base and made it home and then rounded again. Now, there are also those people that start on third base and somehow end up back at first. But...

8:32 I know this. If he were to fire everybody, if he were to just fire Aaron Glenn and keep the general manager, that is just a good launching spot because they are flush with capital to improve the team. Meanwhile, the Colts are the polar opposite. No quarterback, no picks of value, no talent on the roster, especially I would imagine they'll keep trading guys as they should. And an owner is just going to be like, what is this?

9:01 Are you just going to take notes on everything I do? You could be like, that's so mean. Well, I don't see anyone else doing that. Imagine your first meeting or your fifth meeting or you're involved in a sales pitch and your boss is just in the corner looking at you with a notepad and a suit on. You'd be like, this is kind of weird. Be a little bizarre, right?

9:32 Because it is. And when you look at this Colts job, there is no way around it. GM, assuming that they end up firing Shane Steichen, which I did see this clip kind of making the rounds that she had said earlier this year that the hiring process is a little weird. You know, hiring them both at the same time doesn't mean you got to get rid of both of them, regardless of what happens. This is a dog shit gig.

9:56 I mean, it truly is. Panthers-Packers Thursday night. You know where my philosophy is? As the season goes on, we hammer the home teams. Might have to throw that Theory, philosophy out the window on this one. Somehow the Green Bay Packers, and Packer fans clearly are pretty dialed into this for about five months since the schedule came out, are playing their second Thursday night game before Halloween. Now they're both at home, so they're not traveling. That is still insanity. Two Thursday night games before Halloween. I don't care how the rest of the schedule shapes out. And theirs is a little quirky because they play like a Wednesday game and got some weird stuff going on toward the end of the year. So they got some like

10:46 bunch of mini buys. And I think the league argues you get mini buys when this happens. That feels nuts. And I saw this incredible stat from a buddy of mine, Joe Osborne. He works at Covers. It's like a gambling website. and he posted this on the Everything app, X. The Carolina Panthers are an incredible 13-0 against the spread in games following an outright loss. They got obliterated, obviously, last week, but it's a very similar situation to last year. They got destroyed by 31 at home versus Josh Allen and the Bills. Then they went into Green Bay as basically a two-touchdown underdog and just straight up won. I think these games are weird. Anytime a team, I mean, you'd be hard-pressed. Like, the Raiders were down 28-3 in the

11:45 first half. It didn't quite look like what I witnessed in Carolina and Tampa. That was a massacre. And it just wouldn't stop snowballing on him. And, I mean, even Dave Canales said after the game, I've never been a part of a first half like that. It was 33-6, but it felt like 75-0. It was a joke. If you're a Panther fan, if you're a Panther coach, if you're a Panther player, it's just got to be one of those games that you just, you know, RIP Tony Sperano.

12:19 But I remember when I first got into radio, I was on the Raider station, and Dennis Allen was the coach. But there were rumors like Mark Davis hated Dennis Allen, hated him. And I think he started 0-4, and they fired him. And Tony was named the interim coach. And he took the game tape, an actual hard copy of the tape, which I don't think even anyone used at the time, or no, maybe he took a football, I forget, either a football or a tape. He took the entire team out his first day on the job, went to the practice field, got a shovel, dug a hole, and put the tape and the football in the hole. He said, everything that happened before this doesn't matter anymore. Then I think he lost like six straight games. So a lot

13:07 more issues there than just the football and the tape in the ground. But my point is that you're in these situations. And I just think it's so easy to be like, this is the hard part about the NFL. And I think college is becoming like this too, is if you go week to week, you can get burned. And I think that stat's pretty telling. I'm taking the Panthers.

13:37 I just saw that They got multiple guys on the Packers. Matthew Golden, Wyatt are questionable for this game. Hard to tell. Short week. Is anyone even practicing? But Golden's clearly a little banged up. And let's face it, he's been dropping balls to begin with. But they need him. He's a pretty important piece of their operation. And Jordan Love throws to him all the time. He had 12 fucking targets last week. I also think losing 2 of 3 to the Bears... was not great for LeFleur, right? That is a historic rivalry. The fans got accustomed to owning that rivalry.

14:14 You know, it's one of those rivalries like Auburn, Alabama. I finished the Saban doc last night. And even he's saying like, Weird games. We know going in, they could be 11-0, you know, headed a national championship contender, or they can be 5-6 and struggling to get 500. We approach that game no different than we do LSU or Georgia.

14:40 Especially there, we plan on it getting weird. And everyone acknowledges it, right? I would say that game feels the weirdest of all the big college football rivalries. Like it's, it would be stunning. Again, we'll have to see how Ohio state's quarterback looks, but like if Ohio state's good, Michigan's down, you do kind of expect Ohio state to handle it and vice versa, even though it's kind of been one way the whole time. It's why a couple of years ago when Michigan beat Ohio state, it was insane, right?

15:07 You're like, wait, this, this, you're what's happening here. But LaFleur losing two home games, even if I'd argue this is unfair, like to make the Packers play a second Thursday night game, in the first month and a half of the season is kind of just, what are we doing? Which I never, like, I love it when these players or people in the media go and they say that they care about safety. Guys, they do not care about safety.

15:42 Why does anyone say that? They care about money. This is a business. Do you think they care about concussions? No, they don't want to get sued and they don't want to pay. Do you think they, like all these targeting rules, they did it out of the goodness of their heart? They don't give a damn. They care about keeping that cash afloat. That's all that matters. Like when Rodgers goes on these rants, and all these players do, Thursday Night Football wouldn't exist otherwise. But here's the other thing. The people in the league office and the people who are in control of this aren't former coaches and players. They're businessmen.

16:16 They view all you guys as widgets. Now, luckily, if you're going to be a widget, you might as well be a high-paid widget. There are a lot of widgets not making anything. So it's like, hey, if you're going to do it, at least be on the top 1% of the income bracket. But I... We agree it's unfair. You lose two primetime games Thursday night to the NFC South, the Falcons and the Panthers, it's going to be hard to come to grips with the Packer fans. Now, I do think the Packers' big picture are going to be fine this year. It doesn't look like they're winning 12 or 13 games, but they should hover around that 9-10 mark, and the Packers, historically pretty conservative, Unless he doesn't win another game. LaFleur's going to be the coach next year,

17:05 I would imagine. But this is one of those that's like, we can't beat the Falcons or the Panthers on Thursday Night Football. And this is also a team that beat you last year when you were supposed to beat them. But we also got to be pretty aware now of the fact of everyone's kind of the same. It's like that in college. It's like that in the NFL. The Chiefs could lose to Just pick random teams. Like the Jets.

17:35 The Jets could take out the Chiefs, could take out the Denver Broncos, could take out the Pittsburgh Steelers on a given game. The Miami Dolphins, they've played teams tight this year. It's football. And these Thursday night games are just weird, but The Panthers have already had a bye. So in a weird way, they have a greater rest advantage.

17:56 And I understand you get a mini bye after the Thursday week. But when you don't get a week off and then you have to do it all over again, seems pretty crazy to me. So I'd hammer the Panthers in the points. Last but not least, before we dive into the mailbag, I saw Nick Foles had some comments. I think they were going viral in the Philly circles yesterday.

18:19 He must have said this on his podcast or maybe it was an interview. Essentially, what he witnessed on Monday night was dysfunctional. It's like, Nick, my mother, who just turned 79, could see that. You don't think that's a functional operation? Hell, I'd call the Dallas Cowboys pretty dysfunctional as well. They had seven or eight penalties in the first half. That was just a terrible, terrible played football game early on. It's like, what is going on here?

18:49 But he also said that the unraveling started this offseason with Jeff Stoutland, who was the O-line coach and fired. And listen, he's a legendary coach, right? Been the O-line coach for multiple Super Bowls. Has, you know, a bunch of these guys say they owe their career to him. His resume speaks for itself. But sometimes when a guy gets fired, it's not always like we just need a spark.

19:15 Underrated part in the NFL is is that some of these, and the Eagles have Fangio, Stoutland got like this. Do people understand that Jeff Stoutland, as an offensive line coach, was making over $ 3 million? And I think sometimes egos get big, man, and guys don't listen to anybody. And I would say these coaches preach the team, the team, the team, Yet. they're kind of big ego individuals, you know, with the other coaches. And I think sometimes, and you see it when head coaches get fired. We just saw a bunch of head coaches in college get fired. I'm sure we're going to have a bunch more in the NFL this year and we'll have more in college. Especially if you had a long, long tenure somewhere. It's just time.

20:11 Like the dude at NC State. He just got fired. Been there 14 years. Do you know NC State, I heard someone say this, in 124 years of football? They've been around for 124 years of football. Has had one 10-win season. One. So it's like, NC State, you should be proud to win eight, nine games. Because that would be the argument of, you're firing this guy? You think you're better than this guy? Well, part of it is, like, they think they can get Phillip Rivers, which is a no-brainer, given that his kid's going there, and it'll just make them a national brand immediately. So, yeah, I'd fire Dave Dorn at, shit, if he was winning 12 games, if I'd get Phillip Rivers for the donations. You know? This is a business, not a charity. But, like, you're there

20:57 14 years. I saw it when I was in Philadelphia with Andy Reid. I think Andy Reid has proven, and I think this year is, he's actually been in Kansas City for more years than he was in Philadelphia. But like, it was just time. And everyone needed, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin. Sometimes things run their course. Not every divorce is, you know, just a bloodbath. Just going after each other's throats. Sometimes it's like, yeah, we just, it's over. We're good with it.

21:29 We'll just go our separate ways. We'll split the children. We don't hate each other. Some are clearly pretty, a lot of venom behind both sides. But I do believe that Nick Sirianni is a unique case because he's had a lot of success. But the one thing that was never debatable, like if you compared him to the other guys, you're like, well, he's like an under 45 guy, but no one thinks he's dynamic as the other guy's that are head coaches who are calling the plays. McVay, Kyle, right?

22:04 Even if you wanted to say like Matt LaFleur, Kevin O'Connell, like those guys, the impact they have on a weekly basis is not comparable to Nick because Nick's just standing there. So Nick's main thing is like keeping the guys corralled, handling them. And where I would agree with Foles is like, Dysfunction to me is like, are guys quitting? Because if guys are quitting, then his leadership is done. And the time is then over. I saw a clip today of Brian Baldinger. It must have been on local Eagles radio.

22:38 Came in one of my feeds. And he said that in Baldy, New Jersey guy, right in that area, has probably seen every snap of Jalen Carter's career on all 22 tape. And he knows his shit. And he says it's the worst game he's ever seen him play. And when you start paying premiums for players and they start sucking, you get fired. It's really that simple. And you know what?

23:10 I saw Sirianni. I was watching some of his press conference after the game. And he said, during the national anthem, I kind of look up and I'm just in such a grateful state thinking, if you would have told young Nick Sirianni, who dreamed one day of being in the NFL, that I would be a head coach, I wouldn't have asked what our record was or what players were on injured reserve or what players I had available or who we were playing. I would have signed up for that immediately, right?

23:49 And he's like, hell, if you would have told a young adult Nick Sirianni, I'd be sitting in these shoes. And I was like, you know, that's very good perspective. But you know when you typically, most people, some people are good at this, really kind of be reflective and have gratitude is typically when things are going really bad.

24:11 And there's a chance they're going to get way worse. And it's a healthy thing. I'm not the biggest churchgoer, but it's something that they teach you. And we all get to those points when it's really easy to just dwell in negativity or use some positivity, look at the bright spots in life, which we all have, no matter how bleak things look. And I respect him saying that.

24:36 But I also think that is pretty reflective of what's going on. And they're not just two and five. They are unraveling with injuries and their top players who are playing and making paid a ton are not only not playing well they're not even playing hard so i i think sirianni is no dummy i mean a couple years ago they clearly almost pulled the trigger for bill belichick which i i would imagine they're glad they did not do right especially how he would not i know they have but a decent relationship, Bill and Howie. That's why it was like getting close. But I think that you talk about, you know, kind of washed. Even though actually Bill's doing a pretty good job at North Carolina. Commendable job for sure. After firing his buddy and firing his

25:30 kid for all sorts of crazy allegations. But that's Bill. He thrives in those situations. It's like, oh yeah, sexual assault, cocaine. Let's rattle off four game winning streak. So yeah, I think Sirianni is just going to coach out the string here. I think it's fair to assume that this is all she wrote for his head coaching career. And I also think it's all she wrote, and this is the other thing.

25:58 We talk about coaches getting second chances. Stefanski immediately hired. Sala, one year off, immediately hired. I don't think we're seeing Sirianni as a head coach. In the NFL, college would definitely be Possible. He honestly might fit at college better. Kind of like a Dan Lanning type. But yeah, it's probably over. I need to tell you about this new sports trading app called Polymarket. It's the best way to trade in sports. In the past, if you wanted some action on the game, you'd put some money in. And if your team was doing well and you wanted to cash out, they'd lock the trade. and take a huge fee.

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28:16 Question for the pod. As the Colts are having a fire sale for all their star players, what are the vibes in the locker room for the rest of the team? The situation seems much more dire compared to some other two-win teams, like the Saints, Texans, the Bucs, etc. I would imagine the morale is pretty low. You know, I think...

28:40 I just can't get over... Daniel Jones is one of the greatest all-ski-mass teams... individuals in the history of American business that is not committing a crime. It's above board, nothing illegal, just robbing people. I looked yesterday. I don't know exactly how much guaranteed money. If they cut him at the end of the season, they would still owe him.

29:05 I think it's probably like $ 10 million. As of the end of this football season, he will have made $ 172 million. I think it's his family members that are part of his operation. Whatever commission he paid them is not enough. They could represent me and my interests any day of the week. I mean, they make Rosenhaus look like my son, begging to get let out of the playpen. I mean, they look like some of the great negotiators in the history of America. So do I think he gives a shit?

29:48 I don't think he cares at all. He's laughing all the way to the bank. And I also think when you do this, it's like everyone's just got to go. Like, are you really worried about the quote-unquote morale in the locker room? and here's the other thing by all accounts, Quentin Nelson's not the most vocal. Like he's more of a, just follow his lead. You know, Buckner is, is like a heart and soul of your operation type guy. You remove that, this whole thing could fall apart and no one.

30:20 And I mean, no one has to be more excited than that, than Jets fans. Because I mean, there, there's a chance I, I might've been early. The Colts, uh, who are playing, I think, the Jags this week. I had them on quit watch last week. I might have been a week early. Even though if Kyler just doesn't kind of crap down his leg on some plays, they still should have covered. But this against the Jags in Jacksonville, I might have been a week early. It's like people that were all into the internet boom, invested in the stock market like 99, 2000, and then it crashed. The internet was coming. The internet vibes on the stock market, we were just, well, not me. I was 15 years old, but you were just ahead of the game. I think

31:14 it was like pets.com was like one of the signature stocks that everyone still talks about. Got quit written all over. One, two, three, we're over it. Question regarding Lamar Jackson and the Ravens. Why is Lamar the only player in the NFL that we have weird injuries with? If Lamar wasn't going to play for the last three weeks, why did they not immediately rule him out the next week? This also reminds me of when they messed up the injury designations either last year or the year before, which sparked an investigation from the NFL regarding injury misconduct. Is this a Lamar thing or a Ravens thing? I thought it was Harbaugh with his redundant coach speak, but it's now looking more like a Lamar issue. Is he the Kawhi Leonard of

32:05 the NFL? Like, I'm with you. It was like, you know, is John and Eric DaCosta. You know, Eric is just a cold SOB, man. Fuck that. That guy, knife you in the front, knife you in the back. So it's like I could see him messing with other teams. So you'd be like, you know, they were always doing weird stuff.

32:24 I heard Nick Wright go through it yesterday. Starting in 21. I mean, it was three different years of them saying things, of him playing. Hell, he might play this week, then he'd be out for the season. I mean, the way they played this the last three weeks, you thought, like, God, he might miss a game. And then he missed three straight games. And even last week, the injury, they announced he's out on Saturday. It does feel... I don't think the Ravens are blameless because... I don't think they hate you not knowing. It's obviously a big, big difference, getting ready for Lamar and Snoop Huntley. But at this point in time, it does feel like Lamar kind of does his own thing. And it is bizarre. It has a

33:13 lot of Kawhi Leonard vibes of you just don't know what you're getting. And this gets back to the guy we saw before he got injured in that Tennessee game, he is a 200 plus million dollar guaranteed extension guy. I mean, he's incredible, but then you have this. So it's like, if we miss the playoffs by a game, were you really hurt? Were you not willing to play hurt? Were, are we uncomfortable with the way you communicate with us?

33:44 It's just definitely something to keep an eye on. I, I don't, it's bizarre. I mean, it's, I heard Colin had a good line today. He's like, you know, I don't mind weird, but I don't want it in my quarterbacks. And this is starting to get a little weird and bizarre. So, it looks like he's going to play this week. I don't know. They kind of need him playing the Bills off a bye. But, I would say Kawhi Leonard has, it's got some similarities there. Lamar feels much more normal than Kawhi, who is just out there. But, When it comes to injuries, like Kawhi will just announce, like, knee hurt, see ya. It's like, what? It's like, hey, Toronto, you just gave this guy a bunch of money. You didn't think he was going to get hurt and bounce on you?

34:32 He doesn't give a shit about you. I do think Lamar cares. Like, I don't think Kawhi cares at all. You know, we use the word mercenary a lot in sports. There has never been a bigger mercenary than him. He doesn't care about any of these people. If they all burned alive, it'd be like that movie scene of him just walking. He doesn't care at all. I do think Lamar cares, but there has to be some better... Like, you just don't... Like, let's face it. The Ravens, their goal is to be the Chiefs, right? That's what DaCosta's like.

35:05 Beat them, be Super Bowl champs, be the bar for the AFC. Do you think that ever happens with Mahomes and Andy and Veach? Like... Mahomes is texting Veach nonstop about his thoughts during bowl games, the combine free agency. I mean, he's with Andy telling Josh Simmons to get out of the offensive meeting room. I'm not saying Lamar wouldn't do that, but I need a relationship that we're business partners. Well, hell, we're paying you premiums. We're paying you $ 50, $ 55 million a year. I need you all in on the boat. And it does feel like, I don't know what's going on. People say it's because of the agent. It's you communicate how you want to communicate.

35:53 Kawhi has proven that he doesn't care. You fucking figure it out. You want to get into business with him. You can never be shocked. Only truly like Harbaugh, DaCosta and now mentor truly know the, the disconnect. And who knows? Like I, I'm not absolving the Ravens. I, there is a chance that they play a big role in this too.

36:16 From the outside, it feels like it's starting to be more of a Lamar thing. Wanted to get your top five ranking for offensive play caller since 2000. Where would you rank Shanahan? Not Mike Kyle. His dad probably peaked late 90s. That's a good question. I would say the two guys of the last 20, 25 years who are older that would be locks would be Andy Reid and Sean Payton. I would say the two guys of this generation that feel like locks would be Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan. I think if you just base it on Super Bowls, it would be Andy would be one. Kyle doesn't have one. Those two have one. I do think you'd have to throw in, he's not a head coach, but like Josh McDaniels is a play caller. He's been

37:13 pretty good. I mean, he's won a lot of big games against the big time defenses. And I do think you would say, you know, Belichick ain't calling. When you run the defense for Belichick, he's clearly very involved. Like that's his side of the ball, right? It's, it's kind of Saban-ish. Like if you're the defensive coordinator for Saban, he's, He knows what you're doing, and I'm sure he's chiming in. Well, if you're the offensive coordinator, he's just screaming at you to run or pass, but he's not telling you what play to call. So I have to think a little more about that, but I'd be hard-pressed to not have...

37:51 If you're just going, it'd probably have to go Andy, Sean Payton. I mean, McVay beat Kyle Shanahan in the NFC Championship game, so it'd be hard to argue that. I do think Kyle... I think if you could morph the two of them, I think Kyle at his core wants to run it. Sean wants to pass it. There's got to be some balance there. They're kind of intertwined, obviously.

38:17 And then I'd probably throw Josh. Maybe I'm leaving some guy out. How can you explain how important offensive and defensive coordinators are for teams? Seems like good teams get rid of their coordinators and have the same head coach and then regress. Well, I think the main thing is that your coordinator, like if I'm Dan Campbell or Sirianni or John Harbaugh, I attend meetings. But you hear this word a lot, meetings, right? A lot of us, not me as much, but a lot of you, depending, who knows, maybe all of our jobs are different. But historically, meetings were a big part of business, right? They have morphed with Slack and Zooms. They're not quite as formal. I would say universally as they once were. But in football,

39:08 a meeting, it's changed over the years because of the way people comprehend information and our lack of patience because of the phone. But it's pretty similar, right? You go team meetings, right? Is the entire team that's usually the head coach sending a message in the morning, Wednesdays, getting ready for the game Thursday Friday some coaches do it differently some coaches after Wednesday you you don't meet as a team that seems pretty crazy to me a lot of coaches like I'll use Kyle Shanahan for example Monday Wednesday Thursday Friday or like team meetings to start the day Andy all these guys And some guys are more involved in those team meetings. Some are shorter. And they go offense, defense, and you break. So when the offense

39:57 goes and the defense goes, special teams go drink coffee and read the internet, the kicker, punter, and long snapper. Because if you're a special teams player, you're still an offensive or defensive player. Well, if I'm John Harbaugh, Matt Nagy is leading my offensive meeting room. So that guy is the one talking to to the team about the game plan, the plays, the installation of the plays, the previous practice when we ran those plays, things we saw, things we want to tweak. They are setting the message to the entire team. So anyone that read that story about Andy Reid running the offensive meeting, probably him and Bien-Ami, right?

40:40 I mean, Andy's right there. Bien-Ami's the offensive coordinator. But when your head coach is a play caller, they're in that meeting often. and telling him to put his feet down because they were in there as an offense. And then I'm sure Mahomes, who's sitting in the front, turns around and is like, bro, get the fuck out of here.

41:00 And that's pretty high-level operation. And listen, Josh Simmons ain't the first guy to get kicked out of one of these meetings, but it's just setting the offensive or defensive game plan for the week. So those guys have, and then obviously at practice, they're the ones running the side of the practice. Installing the plays, installing the playbook, installing everything.

41:20 Making tweaks. They play a huge role with the actual plays. Like if Flores disappeared tomorrow, there is absolutely zero chance whoever the number two guy is in Minnesota could just run the defensive meetings and install what Brian's doing. Zero chance. Like negative chance. It's an important job. Unless your head coach, like McVay, Andy, Kyle, LaFleur, Mike McDonald, those guys run the meetings. Or when you're head coach, you miss some and your assistants run some. But you're the guy calling the defense. So you're a huge, huge part of it throughout the week and then obviously on game day. Because I heard, who was it? Oregon just fired their offensive coordinator.

42:14 And he replaced Will Stein, who just went to Kentucky and is having an incredible year and looks like a future star. But they basically just kept the same offense and elevated a guy from the staff. And this is what's very difficult about calling plays, especially offensively. Defense, you have a philosophy. If you run Fangio's defense, if you run a Zimmer blitz-heavy defense, Flores is creating his own defense.

42:43 But it's... You get somewhat of an idea, and being a defensive play caller is pretty predicated, again, unless you're Flores, with this unit on having high-level players to be a good defense. Historically, good defenses are not like overachieving units. They typically have high-end, pro-ball, all-pro players. You'd be very hard-pressed to look at the top defenses in NFL history. Hell, just of the last 20 years that rank in the top two or three every single year that aren't littered with high-end players. It's not a bunch of overachievers. I'm not saying you can't have an overachiever or two on the unit, but it's as much about the Jimmys and the Joes and the Xs and the Os. The offense is a little different. And just because you keep the

43:29 same offense, if I don't know that offense, I'm not going to be as good of a play caller because you got to know why you're doing it, what you do against this, the reasons you change, adaptations you can make, And it's why so many guys fail. It's like, well, just hire another Shanahan guy. Well, does he truly know the offense or do you just work for them for a year or two? Does he truly have the capabilities of adding stuff to it as well? Can I tell you about my new friends at trees.com? Do you know that they're America's largest and most trusted online nursery? I don't know about you, but I added some ficus trees to my backyard. We'll try to add to the feng shui, the vibe. And, you know, you work with a landscaper.

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45:39 That's Trees, T-R-E-E-S.com, code number 3 and out. Valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions apply. Not a USC fan. USC, as in the Trojans fight on. Would Jim Harbaugh make sense? He'd bring toughness, good with the media. That might be a stretch, but I hear what you're saying. Lives there, so wouldn't need to move. Problem is, he has, like, after the Connor Stallions thing, I don't think he's allowed to coach. Like, he's basically banned from recruiting. So, there's just, it's not an option. I forget the exact terminology. but I don't even think he's allowed to recruit. I think it's completely over. And I think it's a long, isn't it like a 10-year show cause? He's never coaching in college again, unless he goes to UC Davis or something

46:36 just for the hell of it. I don't think he's a great fit at USC either. I mean, if you look at the two places he's coached, like Stanford and Michigan, USC's got a little more like Texas to them. Stanford and Michigan are basically like I mean, premium universities academically. It's just a little different. And he was a Michigan guy.

47:01 The Niners look great, and Washington has become one of this season's laughingstocks. With Dan Quinn's recent blunders, can we finally excuse Shanahan from the 28-3 loss? Maybe it's because we're in season, or maybe because he hasn't been fired. Just seems like it has never been more obvious. I've always said this. No assistant coach has ever been blamed for a big playoff or Superbowl loss. And the head coach gets absolved in the history of sports since this.

47:34 It's like Kyle is the, and why is that? What's the famous line? They don't boo. Nobody's like Kyle's the star. Dan Quinn is the role player. It's not shocking that once Kyle leaves the whole thing disintegrated and Dan's, by all accounts, a very, very nice guy. And people that have worked with him love the guy. He's just not a head coach. He's completely overwhelmed. It's just really that simple. Listen, Washington at this point in time with the injuries is not that talented. So you could put McVay or Andy Reid.

48:07 They would have issues. But give me a break. I mean, we have seen countless games this year where it's like, remedial clock. It's one thing if you hit a big play, everyone's celebrating, and you get to delay a game on a 60-yard chunk play. Happens all the time. It's happened forever, and it'll continue to happen. I totally get it. Or you've got to blow a timeout. This doesn't bother me.

48:34 I'm numb to that now. But the stuff they're dealing with, it's like, they don't know what's going on. You could argue for as bad as the tie thing was... A week later, after that moment, to say field goal in the headset when it was just fourth down is pretty bad. Why is it so rare to see a two-star running back to see two-star running backs on one team? I mean, top talent like Chase and Higgins or Lamb and Pickens? Well, it's a good question. Typically, because when the one guy becomes a free agent, you're not going to pay both of them like $ 30 million for your running back room.

49:16 You allocate more to the wide receiver room than you do to the running back room. You can have two-star running backs. It's pretty rare. Like LaDainian Tomlinson, Michael Turner. Was that the two? Or did Michael Turner come from Atlanta? It hasn't happened in a long time. Truly like... I mean, Montgomery and Gibbs when Gibbs was young. But then what happens?

49:39 You got to pay Gibbs. You get rid of Montgomery. Partly, too, because you're just, especially now with these do-all running backs, you don't want to have the other guy on the field. In a perfect world, you have a Bijon, a Gibbs, a McCaffrey, a super Jonathan Taylor, a high-end guy, and then you hit on a fifth, sixth, seventh-round running back.

50:02 Or it could be third or fourth, whatever. But a guy just making less than a million dollars. And he can come in and just be good for you. I think that is just kind of universally agreed upon the ideal way if you're going to have Saquon Barkley in his prime and then Kenneth Gainwell. You know, just a good, cheap player as his backup. Question for the back. I feel like some of the consistency in the NFL is gone.

50:30 This year, the only team that has been consistent, in my opinion, is the Vikings. Consistently bad on offense and fantastic blitz-heavy defense. Last year, the Patriots were consistent, but the caveat being an easy bet. But the consistency had a caveat where they would smoke bad teams, then would lose to good teams. I got terrible eyes. This year, the Patriots sucked the first three weeks and have been good since. Same is for the Packers. Bills and Falcons go up and down. Niners look good in the first quarter against the Falcons, then sucked. So on and so on. Yeah, I mean, one huge, huge impact on football that people could give me the stats. We've all been watching this sport, unless you're 15 years old, for a long time. Guys

51:17 drop like flies. The amount of guys that get injured, you can give me any stat, I don't believe you, it feels like more than ever. I'd say the same thing for the NBA. Half the league is already hurt. And maybe it's just because I was reading my guy Strauss' article the other day about Mahomes. In three of defensive tackle, defensive end, and linebacker, the greatest athletic testing scores in the history of the league have come in the last five years. So the guys are bigger, faster, stronger than ever.

51:47 I've said this forever. People train to be explosive more than they train for football because then they don't practice football because no one really practices anymore like they once did to kind of build the calluses. Like when you watch the Tyson doc, no one would spar against Mike because the only way to prepare for a fight is to spar, but he was like, I don't want to spar.

52:10 The one guy that would was Lennox Lewis when he was really young. And part of getting ready for a fight is building the calluses to get ready for the fight. It's why some of these guys in the UFC clearly kind of get banged up leading up to the fight because you kind of got to get right there on the edge. Football's no different. Like, historically in football, before the money had just exploded, you went to a Wednesday practice in the NFL, you went to, you know, Tuesday practice in college. It was chin strap, obviously high school.

52:42 We went full pads in high school every day in practice. I don't ever remember. I'd never seen shorts and shells during the season or during training camp until I went to Fresno State, and Coach Hill was very reluctant to do that. And one time he did it, I'll never forget. We had such a bad practice, like 15 minutes in.

53:03 Sent the whole team to the locker room, brought them back out full pads, and went full scrimmage. It was kind of crazy. Guys were getting hurt. I mean, it was a full-on war. And I think that plays a huge role. I really do, is the injuries. Look how many teams from the playoffs last year. I mean, the Eagles have their teams hurt. 49ers are always hurt. Look how many guys, the Giants just put someone on injury reserve.

53:29 Everyone's just hurt, always. And I also think this, the officiating. I was thinking about this the other day. Is there another industry where like two days after the result of something, you just would get a call and be like, you know, actually, we were wrong of something of significance. Everyone has been told a week later, a day later, like, hey, man, I messed up there. Totally. We're human beings. But every single week, it's like, oh, yeah, you know that pass interference call that we didn't call? Should have called it. Oh, you know that game that you ended up losing? You probably would have won, right? It happens every freaking week.

54:14 It feels like it's getting worse, too. Why does everyone shit on Adam Gase? Is this Adam's burner? I know it didn't end up well when he was the coach of the Jets, but we have seen how poorly that franchise has been ran over the past 15 years. He was an offensive coordinator for the Broncos in 13. It wasn't a bad head coach for the Dolphins. I think Peyton gets a lot of the credit, fair or not, for the 13 team. The Dolphins, I think he took them to the playoffs one year with Matt Moore. I think it's as simple as this. If you're going to be a complete weirdo in a job that's very public, you better be successful because no one wants a weirdo that's losing. And it did feel like he was on cocaine.

55:03 I saw Le'Veon Bell said that he caught him doing blow. I mean, he had a lot of Steve Belichick vibes. And then you read articles about him, how a guy didn't sleep. It's like, well, I promise, we've all been, anyone that's had a baby knows, there comes a point where coffee stops working. I worked in the NFL. I was younger, so I had more energy, I would say.

55:25 And I remember we drank Keurigs in Philly. I remember in Fresno, we had a legit pot. In Philly, we were drinking Kirgs. There's no caffeine in those. But it didn't even matter. You're in your 20s. You're just high on life. But I think we view Adam Gase, fair or not, as like a druggie whack job. I mean, yeah, I knew a little bit about offense, but druggie whack job, I would say doesn't go over well when you lose a lot of football games. Mailbag. Some life advice. This is non-football here. How do you push through in life when your ex-girlfriend of many years moves on, but yet you still have feelings for? It's something that I've been struggling with to process and understand. Maybe this could be

56:21 an opportunity for young guys like me, 29, and many others to get advice from someone who's older and has lived a lot of life. Well, when you have a powerful relationship with somebody, you're never going to not have some feeling toward them, especially if they dumped you. Even if you broke up with them, think about someone, especially if you're talking to years. If you live with them, you spend a lot of time with them, they know everything about you. You're obviously intimate with the person, hopefully a lot in your younger years. and enjoy those times, that you don't forget. I mean, your life moves on, things change. The connection is powerful. But in this day and age, if your ex-girlfriend is decent-looking to good-looking, she

57:20 had options every day of her life. So the moment you break up, it's... by the time that she can figure out and get her mind right about dating other people, it ain't going to be difficult. It is going to be much easier for them always when you're younger for them to bounce back than you. And I do think there's a powerful thing of, I feel little sympathy for people that go, you should see my, you should see the threats I'm getting. You should see my mentions. Turn off the fucking phone. Excuse my language. Someone emailed me the other day like, I can't listen to your podcast with an eight-year-old in the car. I'm like, I am cognizant of people driving around, but this is not a show for eight-year-olds. I would say you got to try

58:15 to be, I would unfollow her on any social media. I would not be following her at all if it's something that, because every time you look, you're going to feel bad. So I would completely unfollow her or block or mute or do whatever. But the more you look, the 100% shittier you are going to feel. And every time she posts, if she's got a new boyfriend, she's enjoying, there's going to come a picture. If she starts dating someone where they're pecking on the cheek to holding hands, like it's going to be like a knife in the heart, bro.

58:47 Remove that. 100% remove that. And even when it's removed, there'll be a time when you'll still find a way to look. But avoid that as much as humanly possible. And just start living life. Pour yourself into your job, your friends, working out, being active, doing stuff. Say yes to people. get out there and do stuff. Life moves on.

59:13 That is also the crazy part about serious relationships. Once you go your separate ways, as you get older, you look back. She has kids. She has kids. She has kids. These are married. She's been divorced. It's like life just kind of goes. You know, the son's going to come up the next day, whether she's out sleeping with someone else or not. If she's over you. And the reality is once, you know, she moves on. And who knows?

59:40 I mean, unless she's telling you that she hates you or she's over you or she doesn't care about you. Maybe she still has thoughts about you, too. But if it's true, like you're never getting back together, like you got to find a way to move on. But to me, the number one thing and I was I kind of came into this world. in college and obviously the since then of social media and face facebook was started when i was a freshman in college or maybe senior in high school but like i i grew up in that era of like you know you have long-term girlfriends you have uh long distance people and you you know you break up because of that and you see things and it's tough it sucks it's And I, you know, you kind of, I'm lucky to have lived in two eras

1:00:27 where you just know you just have to remove yourself from it. Because if you stare at it, and if you miss her, and she's canoodling with some dude that, it's like, God, does he have a way nicer car than me? Does he own that house? I mean, you're going to, it ain't going to be good. So just avoid it. I'm a huge believer in just avoid. If you can. Like, obviously some things in life you can't, but like, that's an easy one. You're not the first person to feel that way or go through it. Hey, John.

1:01:01 The Colts deciding to have a garage sale is getting all the attention. Rightfully so. I think it's the right move. However, they don't own their first round pick. The Jets do. They quietly own three of the top 12 picks right now. Impulsively, the choice would be to use those picks to select a quarterback. I think that would be detrimental decision. Look at those skill guys they have. Wilson, Sadiq, Cooper Jr., and Bailey. I say you use those picks and even further bolster the team. Jeremiah Smith is a no-brainer. As a quarterback goes, they should take Sam Darnold the route and look for a placeholder. I think it's really simple.

1:01:37 If there is a guy that you believe in, you just put your chips in the middle of the table. But there is a chance that you could turn over and get 21 and they could bust, or you could Especially if you have to trade up, you're doubling down. You flip over an 11, they give you a 3, and she gets a 20, and you just lost a bunch of money. The quarterback situation is never going to change in the sense of you can't force it. If the hand's dealt to you and you feel good about it and you really like this player, you like this guy, and it's Darian Mensah, it's Mesta Maker, it's Trinidad, then you do it. That's your job. To evaluate this guy, I think this guy can be a franchise quarterback. But if you don't feel that way and you're like, we

1:02:19 need a quarterback and you go get Anthony Richardson and then you get fired in two years, that's on you. But I don't think you go into any situation. If you talk to all these GMs right now, they're evaluating everything. They're probably some college players they like and don't like, but they're open-minded, including, I'm sure, Mugi. He's probably watching all the top guys, knowing he has this ammo. You could also always trade one of those picks for a high-end player that's on the market. I think the best part about having this ammunition is your complete flexibility, which is unlike anything we've ever seen. To have three first-round picks and then have three again with what looking to be pretty unreal. Okay, we'll end on this. He said,

1:03:09 I'm a new listener. So I'm sure you've already been asked this. But what was it like being a scout? Do you miss exploring the U.S.? I only worked on the road for one year. It was after, I've told this story before, but Daniel Jeremiah, who's with ESPN NFL Network now, left to do TV. And I took over a spot and did the West Coast. So basically from where I'm sitting right now, Scottsdale, all the way up to the University of Washington, over to Colorado, to El Paso.

1:03:40 At the time, I was 13, so I'm 28, 29 years old. It was an extremely cool experience. I got paid like 50 grand. You got a big gas stipend. You get some per diem to eat, and you're just cruising. I was lucky that year from Lane Kiffin, Chip Kelly, Sarkeesian at Washington, Jeff Tedford at Cal, Mike Leach at Washington State, It was a very, very cool experience. It's not something I... It was a one-off deal for me.

1:04:20 After that year, I got into the media stuff and I've never looked back. That year was really cool. Honestly, working in the office was more beneficial to... That was just a cool experience exploring the full-on West Coast. I had been to a lot of those places, but driving through Utah, driving through Juarez, Mexico. I mean, I was on the other side. I was on El Paso and seeing Juarez, Mexico. And I'll never forget. I mean, that stretch is like, Jesus. But working in the office was way more beneficial for my career, getting to know the guys, having these people in my life still, experiencing the day-to-day grind of– been in college football for a couple years, but seeing in the NFL, you know, the grind of Andy,

1:05:11 how he's wiring, you know, on a daily basis, it's just something that, I don't know, I think I benefit from greatly in this space. From a work ethic standpoint, I mean, everything's easier. Listen, I mean, I grew up around farmers, guys that work crazy hours. Like, the job I do now is I sometimes I look, I was like, this is really my life. It's why I don't take it for granted. I mean, it could, I'm, I'm always kind of on edge. You could end at any moment, but, um, I, I think I just, I have a lot of respect for the grind of the profession and the intensity of it.

1:05:52 But I also like, I, I knew kind of early. I'm like, I, I love football, but I'm not addicted to it like these guys. And I think to be, to be the best in the business, you gotta be an addict. I would say that about any profession. I'm an addict to this podcast business. It's all I think about, which is sometimes unhealthy. I didn't pay attention to anything that she just said because I'm thinking about a take.

1:06:19 I think to be good at anything in a pressure-packed, competitive industry, you've got to have addiction. The best people in football are football addicts. You watch that Saban documentary. The guy's addicted to football. Belichick for 50 years in the NFL, Andy, Kyle, McVay. I mean, these guys are all the best GMs. I mean, they eat, breathe, and sleep it. It's like, eh. It was kind of clear, but I thought I was pretty good at it. I was good at meeting people on the road and getting contacts and getting good information. That came really easy to me.

1:07:00 And for the most part, I mean, evaluating DBs is hard. But I was taught by Pat Hill, who learned from Belichick back in the day. I had a pretty good base of what to look for and what not to look for. I think it was harder trying to make these grandiose statements about people. It's just difficult. You're really evaluating the humans as much as the players. But yeah, living in Philly was... One piece of advice I would give to a lot of people... And I don't know if this is still true. It definitely is not. People migrate more now than ever. But if you do have the opportunity to go to college far away and to take a job far away in your 20s when your responsibilities typically are the lowest, you're not connected, you're not married,

1:07:53 you don't have kids, it can help shape your life for the best. Good and bad. But that's the time to do it. Because I'm never doing that anymore. I'm only moving at this point in time to where I want to go. Unless times get really, really bad and I don't have a choice. But I would say I'm pretty fortunate the way that everything that happened in my 20s allowed me to do stuff in my 30s that allowed me to be where I'm at now in my early 40s. But I would give the number one piece of advice would be take a risk and do something that's a little uncomfortable. Because when I moved to Philly...

1:08:32 After Fresno State at like 25 years old. I don't think I'd ever been to the East Coast. I don't think I had. I don't even know. Farthest east I'd... I guess I had been to Kansas City. I guess with... I guess I had been to Jersey with Fresno State. We played Rutgers and Greg Sciano. McCourty brothers. They had Kenny Britt. They're actually a pretty good team. Kicked their ass, though.

1:08:59 And Ryan Matthews, I think, went for like a buck 50. Yeah, so my advice would be do uncomfortable things when you're young in whatever field you want to work in. I think you end up looking back later and you're like, I'm really glad I did that. Because in college, I went to college with a decent amount of people that I knew growing up. a bunch of people from similar regions.

1:09:22 It's not like I left. You know, when I have a lot of respect, I know so many people now in the Sacramento area that are sending their kids to the SEC. I'm like, that is badass. What an incredible experience to be like, yeah, I went to, you know, Florida. I went to University of Texas. I went to TCU. I went to Alabama. I know people go to Alabama, LSU.

1:09:43 I would never, I would have gone to like Cal Poly, Fresno State, Maybe like Arizona. I was not going far. And most people I knew were. I can't. It's a completely different world. Maybe because of the internet. It feels less crazy. But I would recommend doing that. Go far away. And just fucking let it rip. Adios. The Volume.