3 & Out - Seahawks Trade for Quenton Nelson, 49ers Trade for DeForest Buckner & Bud Elliott Interview | College Football Playoff, NIL Money, Super Conferences & Lincoln Riley

0:15 What is going on, my friends? John Middlecoff, 3NOW Podcast. How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is doing well, enjoying life. We have trades galore. Well, really two. And the Colts are stocking the cupboards in the NFC West. Seattle Seahawks, the 49ers, trade for Quinn Nelson and DeForest Buckner. Obviously, DeForest Buckner coming home where he was once drafted. And the 49ers who had traded him to the Colts. So he traded him to the Colts, traded him back to the 49ers and Quinn Nelson, who is a future Hall of Famer. I'd call it a John Schneider steal. because you get a third-round pick for a guy that's a plug-and-play stud at left guard, as long as you can move Zabel to right guard. We'll dive into it all.

0:56 And then Bud Elliott, who is a member of the Cover 3 podcast with guys like Tom Fornelli and Danny Connell, and covers recruiting and just big college football guy in the South. I'm a very loyal Cover 3 listener, so I DM'd him and I said, hey, will you come on? He's like, yeah, when do you want me? I was like, tomorrow.

1:17 And he's like, yeah, let's do it. So we had a good talk on and off the air. So that'll be after some reaction to the trades, and that will be the show for the day. Other than that, you guys know the drill. If you subscribe to the Coward Podcast and listen to us through there, make sure you subscribe to the Three and Out Show, Three and Out Podcast.

1:37 And we're up on Netflix. You can hit the alerts and never miss an episode. We also got content on the YouTube page. I actually just threw my top five teams heading into week eight in the National Football League. But let's transition into the 49ers and Seattle Seahawks. And I don't think Seattle making the trade earlier in the day prompted the 49ers to get aggressive and make sure that they landed the plane. But I don't think it hurt.

2:07 And I think anytime that you have a team that is circling the drain, fires a GM, is going nowhere, but is littered with a lot of players that other teams would like. Like Miami, it's like they're terrible, but who on their team right now, how many guys truly would teams be lined up for that aren't on rookie contracts?

2:28 Or guys they just drafted? You know, I mean, Chop Robinson. So it's what makes this, I said this about the Eagles. Like they don't have that many players to trade. They have a bunch of underachieving guys making a ton of money on defense. And then offensively, like Devontae Smith hurt. Saquon Barkley couldn't finish the game. They said he was on a pitch count. He could barely move. So it's like you have these guys. Quentin Nelson, I did the math, has missed three games in his NFL career. Buckner, while he's battled some injuries, has been a complete badass when he's on the field. And obviously the 49ers have a connection with him. And I think both guys, and this is where I'm always a proponent of, and the Ravens

3:14 historically did a really good job of this under Ozzie, is acquiring your type guys. Acquiring players that fit your culture. They talk about this in the business world all the time. Culture is not the company. Culture is the people inside the walls, inside the building. Culture, like a football team, is the reflection of the players you draft. So when you watch Seattle absolutely throttle the Chiefs physically, and really that's just the way they play now for several years, that's the culture they've created, going back to Pete. If you watch the 49ers play, and listen, no team needed a bye week worse than the Niners, when they're just semi-healthy, you better have your chin strap buckled up Because Fred Warner,

4:05 he doesn't play by these no helmet to helmet rules. He doesn't give a shit. They are coming to crack skulls. And honestly, I've said this forever. I don't apologize for watching football for the violence. I miss it a lot of the times in this seven on seven world we're in. And both these two teams truly value a certain type of wiring. certain type of guy the way they play and you got to make decisions you can't keep everybody and Seattle like their run games having issues right part of that is their running backs had been hurt so they were playing third fourth fifth string guys but the other part is like they're like our interior offensive line is not good enough we drafted this guy who's going

4:45 to be a really good player and already is really solid in Zabel from North Dakota State Well, Quentin Nelson is a left guard. That's the only position he played in college. Pretty sure that's the only position he's ever played in the NFL. He's a plug-and-play Hall of Famer at left guard. So Zabel, you got to move, which I would imagine clearly they're pretty comfortable with. Which, you know, former right guard in high school, wing T offense. It's a big difference. Putting your hand down is why a lot of guys aren't comfortable going different tackle spots. It's why it makes swing tackles, usually the guy that's not the starter, but has the ability to play left and right tackle in a pinch, a valuable asset. And they

5:23 got him for nothing. DeForest Buckner is a guy who has talked about retirement before with neck or back injuries, question marks. There's risk involved. Based on the play and based on the person, if he's healthy, you feel excellent about it. Now, he's a free agent in 27. So is Quentin Nelson, which factors into the trade value. But Quentin Nelson is a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's one of the greatest interior offensive linemen, I would say, of the internet era. And he plays guard. So when the trade happened, hell, I follow a lot of Niner accounts.

6:04 People are like, why didn't the 49ers trade for that? Why didn't they make that move? And I think it goes back to, well, they don't value guards that highly. They just don't. And I think John Schneider clearly does, but I think he'd also tell you, I gave up a third round pick for him. If someone with his credentials, that many Pro Bowls, that many All Pros, just a certified badass, was a wide receiver, was a corner, was a defensive lineman, it would have cost me triple that.

6:36 The equivalent of that guy on the open market would have been a first-round pick. That's why the Colts with Jonathan Taylor. They leaked out today, like, he's going to be a cornerstone of our turnaround. AKA, if you even want to have a conversation, it starts with the number one. So it's like, I get this guy for half the season, and if he leaves, someone's going to give him... I don't think people quite understand how much money this guy's going to get on the open market. Linderbaum, who is not nearly as good as this guy, just got $ 60 million guaranteed and $ 27 million a year. So if Quentin Nelson, I know he's 30, but like Jason Kelsey, Trent Williams, we have some recent history of Hall of Famers thriving

7:19 from 31 to 35. You don't think someone's going to give this guy three years, $ 100 plus million and a $ 75 million guaranteed? I'll promise you that that number's coming. And Seattle, probably, they're just renting this, but they feel good. Their GM that just went to Minnesota, third-round pick. They got comp picks for guys like Kenneth Walker and Moffitt. So, they were willing to give more than other teams, like the Packers were involved. Well, the Packers don't have a first-round pick. So, and you're not guaranteed... You know, if you're them, you could easily be drafted in 15 or you could be drafted in 25. Their pendulum on how the season's going to play out is a pretty big swing.

7:59 It'd go a lot of different ways. Seattle knows, like, we're winning double-digit games. Is that number 10 or is that number 12? You know, the Niners just lost. We're two games behind them now. And we got to play them again. We have not played the Rams yet, who I get they just kicked the shit out of the Raiders, but got some issues. We still control our own destiny.

8:20 The 49ers are thinking that too. We definitely control our own destiny because we're in the driver's seat right now. But we need reinforcements. And when you're talking third and fourth round picks, especially Quentin Nelson, no-brainer. Which, again, I haven't talked to anyone with Seattle. I would assume they are very, very comfortable and confident that Zabel, who's, I think, left tackle in college, kind of like a Logan Mankins thing, could play the other position. And then that solidifies those two spots with high-end run blockers with Price and Charbonnet coming back. And actually, Wilson, who's been on my fantasy team, is not terrible. And all of a sudden, you feel pretty good about your run game. And you just need

9:03 Sam Darnold to not turn the ball over. We know how great the defense is. But it all gets back to the... You don't make the profit when you sell something. You make the profit how much you pay for it. What was your purchase price? Third round pick? When, at worst, I'm getting bounced in the first round and I feel pretty good about my chances of winning a playoff game or two? in the mid-20s, so what are we talking, a pick.

9:27 In the 80s?

9:29 When I already know I'm getting recouped on that based on other comp picks from previous players and my general manager? Yeah, here, take it. But the part of the reason is like, why weren't other people bidding? Because I think a lot of people view this as not a premium position. Third round picks are pretty valuable, whether I use that pick to make other trades or just use that pick on a player. And maybe based on my pick structure, I'm missing some other picks. I can't just give up a pick for a guard. Somewhat of a luxury item. And I think there's some truth there. But for Seattle, this is probably one of the easier trades John Schneider will ever make. Just a fucking no-brainer. It's like, that's all

10:07 I got to give up for this guy? Even if it's more than likely going to be a rental. Because I would doubt they're going to give... you know, a guy $ 100 million in the offseason at 31 years old, they'll probably just let him walk and then get a comp pick from that. So it's just excellent business. And the 49ers, it was kind of unique. I would imagine, listen, it's, you think the Seattle just wanted to let Kobe Bryant and Kenneth Walker and Moffitt and all these guys just walk?

10:33 It's salary cap league. You got to make tough decisions. And the 49ers made a very tough decision to trade DeForest Buckner after the Super Bowl run in 2019. They did get the 13th overall pick, which could have been Tristan Wurst, but they traded back a spot and they got Javon Kinlaw, which clearly is something they would like a do-over on. Who actually, I give Kinlaw respect, it looks like he's going to have a long NFL career.

10:57 But he never lived up to that pick. And because of paying other guys, they made a tough decision, but they loved him. He was a team captain. He was essentially Fred Warner before Fred Warner in terms of the heartbeat of the defense. He's everything you look for when you have a team like a Seattle Seahawks or the 49ers.

11:15 He's your type guy. It's why Chris Ballard went and traded that pick for him to add to his team. His problem is they could never figure out the quarterback position, and they were always in this hamster wheel, and part of the big reason they could never make the playoffs. It wasn't DeForest Buckner's fault. So it's like, I can get a guy, who is going to be a free agent that I know extremely well, high character, tough, badass, plays the run, and gives me interior pass rusher. We also just need help inside. And I only have to give up a fourth round pick? Here you go. But again, it's like, well, how'd you get him for so cheap?

11:53 There are some injury, there's injury history with him. Let me bring up, I mean, he's having a good season. He's, you know, on pace for nine, 10 sacks as an interior pass rusher. But it gets back to the last couple of years, he missed a bunch of games. You know, he played 10 last year and he played 12 the year before. So you're talking about a guy that's missed seven, five, I mean, almost a full season over the course of a couple of years, 12, 13 games, which is, You know, a problem when you're talking about an older player. You know, DeForest Buckner, Quentin Nelson's 30. I would guess Buckner's mid-30s.

12:27 Because he was, yeah, 32, will be 33 this offseason. So he's not that old, but for NFL standards, you know, he came into the league in 2016. So you're talking for a guy, and historically, very, very durable in his 49er career. Never missed one game in 16, 17, 18, and 19. And then has a lot of 16, 14, 16, 16, 16.

12:50 I mean, this guy is someone that plays. And he's also just a unique body type with the size, the length, the toughness. He's everything you want. And the 49ers know exactly what he is because this John and Kyle have been around him. So I think both these two trades are just two teams that the 49ers want to get back to their third Super Bowl under Kyle Shanahan. And Seattle has absolutely zero thought of not being exactly where they were last year, as they should. They have an elite defense. The only thing to me that can really hold them back is the ability not to run and Sam Darnold throwing interceptions in key moments. It's like, I think it's fair to say the only thing that holds the 49ers back is health. If they are healthy, and

13:36 this is a big, you know, DeForest Buckner getting traded to a team on a bye is kind of sweet. It's like, I get to chill a little. Get out of football purgatory. And they're very dependent on me. I'm an immediate starter right next to Osa. Hopefully Bosa comes back. And all of a sudden, we got the makings. We got a good linebacking core. Secondary's playing well. You know, it's underrated. We talk so much with the 49ers about Kyle Shanahan. He gets so much of the praise, rightfully so, and Purdy, the offense. They're a defensive team. And the defense against Atlanta just ran out of juice, right? They got no pressures. They just run it out of bodies.

14:15 I mean, they desperately need Bosa back. If Bosa can be healthy, which is a major if. I mean, an absolute major if. But if he is healthy, like, their D-line and spots could be excellent. With Osa and Buckner rushing the passer, with Bosa outside. I mean, before Bosa pulled his calf at practice, he looked fucking incredible.

14:37 He was.

14:38 It's like, this is an all-pro. But he's just a tightly wound guy whose body doesn't always stick together. But I appreciate these two teams being aggressive. That's what aggressive people take advantage of opportunities. And the Colts right now are one gigantic opportunity. Now, Jonathan Taylor is the big name for the Colts. Just what are you willing to trade for a stud running back that makes a ton of money? These are tough decisions. These all look great on paper. I think a lot of people around the league are like, I wouldn't give it up that for Quentin Nelson that's going to walk. I wouldn't give it up that for a 32-year-old guy who's dealt with injuries and said he might have to retire because he's battled

15:27 herniated discs. There's risk involved with all these type maneuvers. I got news for you. There's risk in everything we do in life. If I get in the car and drive to the gym, someone could T-bone me. Life's one big risk. So I appreciate the people that have just run right into it. And Seattle and the 49ers, they've just consistently been two of the more aggressive organizations in the league. And it's why the rivalry is still going really strong, which is somewhat ironic that these two big trades a day, one's a defensive tackle, one's a guard, and they're going to play against each other. Hell, they might play against each other twice, right? Another game in the regular season, another game in the playoffs. I mean,

16:10 last year they played each other three times. Sign me up for that. I need to tell you about this new sports trading app called Polymarket. It's the best way to trade in sports. In the past, if you wanted some action on the game, you'd put some money in. And if your team was doing well and you wanted to cash out, they'd lock the trade. and take a huge fee. But Polymarket is a prediction market. It's a stock exchange for sports. Buying in and selling out on your terms. When your team goes down to 20%, you can buy in and sell it off at 40% when they come back, double your money. I've tried them all.

16:52 Polymarket is simply the best. We're talking DraftKings, FanDuel, Couchy, you name it. PolyMarket's better. They're so confident you'll never go back to the other guys. They're giving you a free $ 50 on your first trade when you deposit just $ 10. And now they've launched a new feature, Squads, a group chat where you can see what everyone is trading on.

17:15 So download the PolyMarket app today and use the code THREEOUT. When you sign up, that's code the number three O-U-T to get $ 50 free after you trade just 10 bucks. 18 plus. Only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Not available in all jurisdictions. Trading is risky. 100% loss can occur.

17:37 See polymarket.com slash TOS for more information. The Polymarket US app serves as an independent software provider and affiliate of Polymarket US and Polymarket Clearing. the CFTC regulated exchange and clearing organization.

18:01 Okay.

18:01 Excited for this one. I, uh, I've been a loyal listener of the cover three pod now for, for two years. My wife will fall asleep on Saturday nights and I'll have my ear pods in laying in bed, listening, uh, To one of my guys here, Bud Elliott, I was like, you know, I like this guy. He's got some strong opinions.

18:19 He'll let it fly. And I reached out on Twitter, and I said, hey, man, will you come on my podcast? He hit me right back. He's like, I'm in it. He's got a fascinating background that I want to dive into, a Florida State, Alabama guy. So, Bud, Cover 3 Podcast, how you doing, brother?

18:37 Doing well, man. How you been? First time on the show, but I've enjoyed it.

18:41 I've been doing good, man. Yeah. I was looking at your LinkedIn page, and I've heard you talk about this on the podcast. There can't be many people talking about football for a living that have a law degree.

18:54 Yeah, there's a couple of us. Ryan Nanny, who was at SB Nation and now does a show with Godfrey over there, an independent show, and Clay Travis, I think, too, is also– for a while, I think a lot of it was a lot of lawyers went to the blogosphere, and then a couple of them emanated out of that, of which I was one. But yeah, it's a helpful background, certainly with all the conference realignment stuff and the NCAA lawsuit stuff and all of that. It's like, hold on, let's cut through the BS here. This is nothing. Or sometimes it's like, actually, this is something. We've got to take a look at this.

19:37 So you graduate high school in 2003, correct?

19:40 I did. Yeah. Yeah.

19:41 So you and I are the same age. So you go to Florida State at a high school and then you get a law degree. Did you have plans of working at a big law firm? somewhere in a big city or did you always aspire to... You went to Florida State and Alabama, two of the most historic college football programs. I would just say football teams in all of America, pro high school or college. So how did you get where you're at now?

20:05 Yeah.

20:05 So, uh, really no plans, uh, to do it, honestly. Um, just got pretty blessed. I had a good LSAT day. And so, um, you know, had a couple, couple full ride offers for law school and, uh, you know, Bama was, you know, pretty, uh, ascended at that time as a, as a law school. And so I, you know, pick them and, uh, I actually was a business law class, and it just kind of made sense to me. I just read the book and kind of knew the material.

20:36 I started messing around with some of the football analytics stuff. At the time, obviously, Florida State had Bobby Bowden. He was obviously one of the best coaches of all time. That was really in the twilight of his career when stuff was not going so well. A lot of his top lieutenants had left and gone on 200 programs. Eventually, you just run out of competent assistants if your staff just gets picked over every year. I started writing about that at SB Nation, actually. That started to bloom and help grow SB Nation's network by getting more contributors, both to what at the time was Tomahawk Nation for FSU, but then also bringing a lot of other contributors as well.

21:18 And I had messed up my shoulder playing softball. And the guy who did the surgery on me was James Andrews, who's a pretty famous surgeon, right? His group. And he was also, I believe, Bama's team surgeon at the time. And so I didn't have to go and move my car and go all the way across campus to do some of my rehab check-ins. They're like, hey, if you know Alabama, the law school is right across the parking lot from the football facility. He's like, hey, our PTs will be there on this day and this day and this day. Just go check with them. And so that was really kind of nice. So I ended up meeting some of the guys on that 07 Bama staff, which was Nick's first staff there. That kind of struck home

22:01 with me as far as, wow, the way they're doing stuff here is a little bit different than very late-stage, old-school Bobby Bowden. That kind of inspired me to keep writing about, obviously, a lot of the good things about FSU's program, but also some of the problems that they were having there and how they probably needed to– to make some changes. It just kind of kept blossoming from there.

22:22 I got into the sports betting space and did pretty well with that, luckily. I didn't have to practice very long, honestly. I passed the bar and practiced for a while, but not that long, honestly. It just became a career.

22:39 You were in your early, mid-20s when Saban really– I mean, watching that documentary. I was a GA at Fresno State. I got there in 08, and McIlwain had just left. His first day on the job, a limo picks him up and he goes right to Julio's house. I would imagine Signetti was on that staff. Jeff Collins, I think, was one of Nick's first guys. Obviously, he ended up going through a lot of guys over the years, but that first staff, if you look back, those early years were pretty impressive.

23:08 It really was like his coaching tree is, and you see it in the doc, which I haven't got all the way through yet, but you know, football season's kind of busy. It's pretty nuts, man. Like just like the guys who, who came through there. So you were at GA at Fresno then?

23:22 Yeah. With Pat Hill in 08 and 09. Nussmeyer then replaced McElwain. Yeah. So, I mean, it was the same thing with Coach Hill. I mean, it's, it's obviously a different level than the Bobby Bowden or Nick Saban, but it's just, you start losing as you get older. Some of these assistants, you know, it's Nick was a pretty unique, had unlimited resources and had Jimmy funneling them guys. I mean, that's, you see Dan Lanning, right? I mean, he makes a huge fake and it's, it's, it's a difficult, it's harder than I think we all, and I'm guilty. I'm sure you are too. Then we crushed some of these guys. It's, You get, you know, if you work, I understood watching landing, you've worked with this guy, you like them. It's tough

24:00 because if you're sitting in that guy's shoes, I'm sure you're coach. I'm ready. Someone had to give Dan landing a shot, you know.

24:07 No doubt. And like on, on the marriage or thing, like I, I had real concerns about that preseason. And yet, like, like you said, landing has a really good track record of hiring coordinators. Right. And I was like, okay, like, Given the talent on this roster, given how important this season is, it's kind of like a push the chips to the middle of the table season. You kind of got to trust that he's not going to make that big of a mistake. And it just didn't work out.

24:34 The drop-off from Will Stein to Merringer is pretty drastic. It sucks, but it's a bit of a lost season for Oregon. I imagine they're probably going to clean house there and go in a different direction.

24:46 Back to the Bama thing, when you got there in 07, I mean, within a couple years, you're still there finishing up law school. He's become a power.

24:54 Yeah. Right? I mean, did– So they lose to Tebow in 08, right? And then they beat him in 09. And they were– like, they had that thing humming. It was really that– you know, because 07 was– they lose to Louisiana Monroe, right? With the whole– like, the famous yellow school bus story and whatnot. And then by 08, like– I think was flipped fast. You know, you have Terrence Cody come in, you know, they signed Marcel Darius. They signed obviously Julio and a bunch of guys in those first two classes. And it was just, you could tell it was like a very different operation than most of what college football was running.

25:29 And that to me is like, you know, you watch that documentary and you and I grew up Nebraska, Miami, you go to Florida state, but you know, for what they have 10 plus years of being in the top five, I might be low balling them.

25:43 Yeah.

25:43 It was like 14 top five finishes, which is insane. You know?

25:46 Yeah. So those teams, I remember being young, I was probably in junior high and DJ Williams was at De La Salle and you know, it was pretty rare for, I grew up in California. I, you know, Tom Brady was a little older, but, these guys that would go across the country to the best schools. Now it's Alabama, Oklahoma.

26:06 They were coming to Southern California. It's much more par for the course with the way the operations happen. But back then, it was basically when the year started, there were two or three teams that if they lost a game, it was stunning. And I do think, and I heard Danny Connell talking about this, and I totally agree. I think we've got to shift our mindset. I mean, you watch, like, BYU is obviously a really solid team. But they're not good enough to just go on the road to play any team that's probably going to end up 500 or better.

26:36 But that would have been a top 10 team going on the road against a team going 6-6, 7-5. I think moving forward with the transfer portal, unless we get a dramatic change, the day and age of– I pointed at my wife. She was really into the Saban documentary. I'm like, you do know that's Jalen Hurts, Tua Tonga-Bailoa, and Mack Jones. Those are his three quarterbacks. It looks like that in every other position. Those days are dead.

26:58 I mean, you talk about Danny. We were talking about Jeremiah Smith on the show, and Danny was probably the only guy that really got to throw to Randy Moss at the power forward level in college. Because if you recall, Randy was suspended by Florida State, so he couldn't play, but he could be on the roster for that one year.

27:16 So Danny got to throw to him in practice all the time. And that team also had Lavernius Coles, Peter Warrick, and I think E.G. Green. And I'm like, dude... If Moss was eligible, he's like, oh, we're not losing a game. Those guys were obviously insane, but if you have Randy Moss, that's a little bit– it just kind of changes the game.

27:40 I think it's honestly a good thing because prior– everybody who signed with a Bama or a Georgia or an Ohio State, they all were probably the best player on their high school team. In many cases, they were the best player in their city. you know, and they'd never grown up playing against another guy, for the most part, who could check them. So, of course, they're going to believe they're going to go and start at Bama or Ohio State. And under the old rules, eventually, like, you're going to run into somebody who's about as good as you, you know, and you don't get to play. Now, you get the transfer and you actually get to play. And college is, like, such an inherently short window, you know, via the rules. So now, like, you don't have all

28:20 these former four and five stars just sitting on these rosters. You're not rotting, but, like, They say waiting your turn, but sometimes these guys' turn never came. I'm sure everybody who's been at one of those schools as coach dudes are like.

28:31 Oh, yeah.

28:31 He would have been a two-year starter at Arkansas. He would have been a two-year starter at Minnesota. And now they get a chance to go do so.

28:40 I think I got my start in just football at Fresno State, which we had a bunch of NFL guys. And you look back, it's like there's just no way those guys would have been there long. And I– Listen, I love college football as much as the next guy, but I think I've been a big proponent of this, you know, this 2014 playoff. We need to separate. Like I went to undergrad at Cal Poly, which is D1AA.

29:05 They have their own playoffs. Does Fresno State, Boise State, that level need to have their own playoffs? And what's the point in just giving this one? I know you have a playoff. You had Boise as the 12th seed. 124, it'll be the same thing. They'll give one away. What's the point? Why not have their own? ESPN Fox can have those games on as well. We need to separate this because those players– it's pretty rare. Ashton Gentry, I remember reading an article, turned down seven figures to leave Boise State. That's very– San Diego State corner last year that Miami drafted. Those are going to disappear as we move forward. They won't even exist. Everyone will leave because how can you not? I'm a big proponent of everyone

29:46 should play everyone on your own level. If I'm these TV networks, as we quadruple the money moving forward, hey guys, we need scheduling agreements where we only play each other.

29:57 Well, I think you're going to.

29:58 Is that inevitable? I guess I didn't even ask the question.

30:01 I don't know if 12 out of 12 is inevitable, but it wouldn't shock me to see 11 in the future. Right now, obviously, we're mandating 10 out of 12. I think the main reason why you have the– I don't want to call it the charity G6 spot, but the mandated G6 spot is antitrust. It's far cheaper for them– to give up one of those playoff spots than it is to go through a big antitrust suit. And so I think that's really why they try to do that.

30:31 You talk to G6 fans and a lot of them don't want it because they're like, hey, we're the same division. I'm like, sure, technically, but guys, let's be realistic about it. I know a lot of the GMs at the G6 level. I know a lot of the coaches at the G6 level. Publicly, they wouldn't, for the most part, say this, but privately, they know they can't compete on that level. I get a lot of hate from JMU fans online because they're like, hey, we made it close against Oregon. Yeah, but nobody saw that because it was 38-3 with two minutes left in the second quarter and everybody turned on Packers-Bears. It was like, okay, good night on that. Maybe it wasn't technically garbage time, but it's hard for you to tell me that Oregon

31:12 had perfect focus there in the second half of that ballgame. I would love to see a G6 playoff. I don't know if it's going to happen because a lot of those schools moved up to get some of that D1 money. But at the same time, I think you should do it in a way that is like, hey, if you guys want to put the table stakes up to play at this level, whether you're a Memphis or a Boise or maybe a Liberty, if you guys actually want to put the money up, you can be in. But there's kind of a minimum spend in order to ensure quality of product here for the playoff that you need to at least spend so we can be sure that if you're in the playoff, your athletes can at least compete.

31:50 And some of your best G6s have athletes who can compete. at the very top of their roster. We know this because those guys get plucked in the portal. What they don't typically have is 20 of them. When they get into one of these playoff games, you've got to worry about this guy, you've got to worry about this guy, but we're going duck hunting on these three. These three guys would not be on our P4 roster at all, and they certainly wouldn't start for us. We're going to go after them. We're going to take advantage. I think that's why you see the games be so lopsided.

32:16 What you guys talk a lot about in the podcast, and it's obviously well-reported now, the money getting invested into these rosters. You just pick a team. It's like $ 28 million. Can you explain to me... how much of that money obviously changes by the school is like the school coming up with. And then you have to subsidize the rest from individual boosters, just giving you, let's just pick a number $ 30 million roster for an average power for big school.

32:43 Like where's that money coming from?

32:44 Yeah.

32:44 So I think for the most, like that probably the heaviest like rev share spend on a football roster is probably close to 18.

32:53 Right.

32:53 So if you're at 30, that means you have like 12 of additional, right? Now that could be from some brand partners, whether it's like a Nike or an Adidas or whatever you have as far as your brand partners. So you might have a Learfield or a NoCap or some of these companies that do your MMR deals for you, right?

33:12 So that they're able to spend some of that. And then you also have your folks out there that give a lot of rich alumni. Maybe they're not so rich that they can own an NFL team, But they essentially act as like a shadow owner of the college team by helping to fund the roster. Just like they would help fund the head coach buyout or some of the head coach salary, right? So that's really kind of where it comes from.

33:34 My question is, so if I need to raise, if I want to compete in the highest level, an extra $ 20, $ 25 million from my booster pack. And let's just say you take a group of seven, eight guys that are multimillionaires and you get several million from each guy. Back when we were younger, if you donated, even to a big school, several million dollars, you were a maid guy, you're getting a suite. Well, this is now– and that's for a 10-year deal. This is now on a yearly basis.

34:03 So if I stroke you a $ 4 million check to help out, that's only lasting six months of the season. So every single year, these ADs' jobs– And then if it doesn't go well, like Sark, right? If you have them barely in the playoffs, but let's say they lose a couple here and they miss, or even they're one and done. Some of these guys are like, I just wrote you a $ 5 million check. And now you're coming back and asking maybe for more.

34:27 Right.

34:28 I mean, how does this sustain? Cause like you said, some people just love it, but you get to a point of like 20, $ 30 million over the course of five, six years. And we have one playoff win to show for it. I mean, I, I would start– it's like at least if I own an NFL team or even a tiny percentage, like my money is growing. This is like what's my return here?

34:48 Well, I think this is why you're seeing a lot of schools go and set up these private entities that I think eventually will own these college teams, right? Like for instance, University of Tennessee Medical Center is not owned by Tennessee, right? They put their name on it. I think eventually you'll have– like Lexington, Kentucky Football Club licensed the UK name to the football club. Now, they'll still have to be students, obviously. It's also potentially a way around Title IX. If it's a private entity that's employing these guys and not the school, do you actually have to fund all these Olympic sports from a business standpoint?

35:26 Then your donors become investors in those type of entities that actually do make money. Gotcha. We're not there yet, but I think that's where this is going.

35:37 So you think, which feels kind of inevitable. From a business.

35:41 Case, it makes sense to have some Olympic sports. From the holistic business of a university, it makes sense to have some Olympic sports. Have a well-rounded student education. Does it make sense to fly your volleyball team all over the country? Probably not. right?

35:59 But it never, it never did really.

36:01 No, but increasingly I think as these schools become a little more business focused, we're like, hold on a second, we're doing what we're like this sport, which with no travel loses 4 million a year guaranteed and sells 1200 tickets a night. Like we're flying them weekly. Like what are we, what are we doing here? You know, like, like play some local teams.

36:25 So you, As we trend toward this business kind of operation a little more, not quite the NFL, but more under that umbrella, are you a believer in this super conference inevitability?

36:37 I don't think it'll come via like– I don't think the Big Ten and the SEC are going to merge. I think what probably happens is you have some schools, and like Dan Wetzel of ESPN, I'll give him a shout, has talked a lot about this. He's like, what happens when Ohio State wakes up and says, hold on, Florida State and Miami don't share equally with Wake and Duke anymore.

36:59 There's all these success initiatives. There's unequal revenue sharing. Ohio State brings in more money to the Big Ten, I assume, than what? Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Northwestern throw in another one combined. Why are we equally sharing there? Is it schedule convenience? Is it tradition? I think inevitably that's probably where the breakoff comes where Some schools break off and decide to form a separate, maybe scheduling alliance at first, what may become a super league. But I don't think it's going to be like, hey, guess what? The Big Ten and the SEC are merging. I don't think that's how it's going to go down.

37:34 So the irony is everyone blasting Notre Dame, and I'm guilty of this, because a lot of people were reporting, why don't Ohio State and Michigan just go independent? Why didn't Miami's AD just came out? I mean, guns a-blazin' last week, which I was like, you know what? He's not wrong. So does everyone follow that model? And then they're all just kind of under the umbrella. And then more and more of the top guys follow USC. You know, you go around the country. But then the TV deals.

38:00 My issue with college football has always been like the power of the NFL is Jerry's brand or the 49ers shares equally with the Jacks and the Arizona Cardinals. And that's the thing with football is everyone's always, you know, USC always was so offended that Oregon State, they're sharing money with Arizona State. But that's part of the power of a business model, and there's so many cooks in the kitchen with college football.

38:22 I think that's it, too. Also, pretty much every NFL team is in a major city, to where if you have one, you know you're going to have sufficient demand. You have an NFL team, and if it doesn't work, the franchise can also move to a city that will support them in theory. So I don't think it works quite that same way in college. Yeah, that's true.

38:53 The sacrifice made by American heroes is often carried by those who love them the most. Educational scholarships from Folds of Honor offer a hopeful path forward for the families of fallen or disabled U.S. service members and first responders. Yet this year, over 8,000 qualified applicants could not be fully funded. Together, we can change that. Help every deserving applicant be met with a resounding yes. Donate today at foldsofhonor.org.

39:29 One thing I wanted to ask you is, I've always had a theory that fit matters, where a coach is. Maybe a little in the transfer portal, it's a little different because you can buy guys. But growing up on the West Coast... Pete Carroll was a California guy. Jeff Tedford, California guy. Chris Peterson, California guy. So they're cultural on the West Coast. They understand those people. Nick Saban, I know he's from West Virginia, but he feels like a Southerner.

39:53 Urban Meyer is a little bit of an outlier, could bounce around, but he's an all-time great coach. Kirby Smart fits in the SEC. And you look at Lincoln, small town, Texas guy. He basically– listen, I don't blame him. They offered him so much money, he couldn't say no. Most human beings in similar situations, whatever their profession is, at a certain point have a price. But it clearly is an unmitigated disaster, right? I mean, we're year five, and they don't even feel remotely close. So, I mean, what– are you a believer in the fit batters? And would you say, do you think he regrets that move leaving Oklahoma for USC at this point in time?

40:33 I mean, I don't know if he were like regrets the move. Um, I mean, from a personal standpoint, he's got a $ 70 million buyout still, right. I believe, or something close there, like USC is private, but the numbers are, are fairly, fairly well reported at this point. Uh, I think he's probably like, hey, we made some mistakes. We think we fixed some of those mistakes. The results aren't showing yet. I'll give him credit. I think their new front office is really good. But sometimes maybe a guy's just better as a coordinator than he is as a head coach. Muschamp, I think, was very much that way on the defensive side. The way some guys run practice, can you run an effective offense under Will Muschamp? He's

41:14 had multiple pretty established offensive coordinators who just could never produce points. I think maybe sometimes you have guys who are just better as coordinators, and maybe they shouldn't be the dude running the program. USC, they just seem to not really play defense for the most part, despite having at least a pretty decent amount of defensive talent this year.

41:32 The D-line's pretty good. Their young guys are probably the best players on the team, though, so if you want to point to something like supporting Lincoln's argument, it's like, hey, we've made important changes. But I think the counter to that is like, look, all those changes can stay, right? You have an awesome GM now. Like you have a really good front office now. Lincoln, none of that's really you, man.

41:53 Like we could have somebody else come in here that can run offense and defense and keep this front office. So that's a different change too in college football. Like some of these programs have really good GMs that might be better at being a GM than their head coaches at being a head coach.

42:05 For sure. And that's why, like, LSU last year when they made– when they pulled the trigger, like if you look at LSU and Penn State, LSU had a clear target in lane. Penn State was clearly just fishing, right? They were hoping to catch something. So if you look at USC, if you are– they have financial troubles of their own, right? If you do a little research on the university and the operation. But if they are able to get a big money guy, who is their Lane Kiffin?

42:30 Who is their urban– like that guy you'd say doesn't exist because even I was talking with Coward. I was like, you know, when I was a kid, they would just go hire Bob Chesney. He's like, Bob Chesney is not a fit there. And they're like, yeah, he's kind of right. He feels more like a Notre Dame, Michigan, UCLA. Like it doesn't make that much sense. And if you're Bob Chesney, you'd probably say, no, you're like, I'm not dealing with this shit show.

42:49 Do you think some of these schools hamstring themselves a little bit by having to get a big name?

42:56 Would you consider Bob Chesney a big name?

42:59 I think now, like if you're– No, no, when they hired him. No, I would. But my point is like if you're USC and in theory if you have to go get a big name, does that limit your pool so much that maybe you're not considering the best candidate?

43:15 I don't even need a big name. I'm just talking like a specific– this guy is the fit to change. Like I don't think they're– They have that. Because when they hired Lincoln, they went after this big, sexy name, right?

43:26 Sure, right. I mean, LSU kind of did the same thing with Brian Kelly, too. It didn't work out, maybe because of fit. You just go get a competent football coach, and you already have a really good front office. If USC's winning, that's kind of a bandwagon town, man. People are going to show up, and if they're not winning, they won't. Now, sure, the new pop, you get kind of the new car smell from the coach who people recognize.

43:52 who's media savvy, certainly in that town, who can sell a vision, can get people excited about the program early. You can't discount that. But sometimes I worry these programs are limiting themselves too much by going for a name that everybody will know, as opposed to just hiring a guy that gives you the best chance to win that.

44:10 What made Lincoln somewhat unique is you kind of knew Caleb was coming with him.

44:17 Right.

44:17 It's not the case, but it shows you you're not really just hiring him for a couple years of whoever he can bring with him. Ideally, the guy's there for a long period of time. Can't it sustain? Lincoln inherited. I know he took him to another level, a little like Bilotti with Chip Kelly, but Oklahoma was a pretty high-level operation getting a lot of NFL guys.

44:37 No doubt. Yeah, exactly. You know, like I'm here in Florida and you know, a lot of my Gator fan buddies were like, John Summerall, are you kidding me? Like, like blah, blah, blah. Like, like when you go, I'm like, guys, do you know John? Like this guy can coach his ass off and he wanted Troy and he wanted Tulane.

44:53 And he also was a heck of a recruiter when, when he was the linebackers coach at Kentucky under Stoops. And like, so he's been in this league. He knows, like he knows how to deal with that level of player. And he's also gone and won at the small schools. Like, His teams play hard. They stay pretty motivated. I think he's really, really good. So far, I think they're pretty happy with him, especially after the win over Texas and smoking Ole Miss. I do think you could limit yourself a little bit if you just go after this big name.

45:20 Do you think you could create toughness? If you look at Kirby, Nick, those guys are tough guys. Cignetti, tough guy. Kyle Whittingham, say what you want, has been a little rocky. He's a tough guy, and his teams have always been tough. Dan Lanning, having a rough season, but he's a defensive guy. Sark, you can't really fake it. And Lincoln, they're offensive guys.

45:42 They dream about a sweet go route, a vertical route, where even DeBoer. I knew people at Fresno State were like, he's not your typical former offensive lineman. He's much more of an analytical, score points guy. And I saw, I think Reggie Ragland on Instagram was going nuts. They don't run nine on seven. Like they don't have a physical, they're not, he's not a physical coach. And if you go back to look at Washington, you're like, yeah, they were just kind of bombs away. And I do think Sark's a good example of like, he's clearly a smart guy.

46:10 He's good with boosters. Like he brings a lot to the table, but you just like, you can try to buy it, but you have to kind of nurture it and create it as well.

46:21 Totally. And like, that's something I think you want in your football team, but there's also guys who I think have tough football teams who don't win, right? Like, you know, Venables at Oklahoma, right? They made the playoff last year, but overall, like, do you think they're happy they signed him to that extension? I'll chat right now, right? Yeah, exactly.

46:37 So like, You can get a guy whose best attribute is toughness in defense, but sometimes those guys don't allow you to score any points. It's kind of hard to thread that needle. With Kirby, the offensive line is probably going to be really, really good. Kind of the same thing with Mario. So if you get a guy that's tough to stuff, he's tough to stuff.

46:53 He's a good example, too.

46:54 Right. They're almost certainly going to be tough and physical up front on the offensive side of the ball, and they'll stay committed to the run game, which I think matters a lot. But yeah, I think... certain coaches you do question like is that a tough team like are they gonna and it's not spread or not obviously you have some spread teams that are certainly pretty tough uh but like you do have to pair the creativity with the toughness i think kentucky is a pretty tough team right but they're not just man balling into the line non-stop right like i think will stein does a great job of scheming it open for them to pair that with the toughness.

47:27 You uh yesterday put out your uh your playoff bracket, your 12 teams, you had five SEC teams and three Big Ten teams. You had Indiana, Notre Dame, Georgia, Miami as your top four. Then you had Ohio State, Ole Miss, both going 10-3, so I guess losing in the championship game. And BYU, UCLA, you got them dropping a couple games here down the stretch.

47:50 I do, yeah.

47:51 Texas, LSU, Bama, and then Boise, who's clearly pretty good, 11-1 in the dance, which I think most people would agree with you there. That UCLA losing some games here, and then if you were predicting, so do you have Bama beating LSU or the other way around?

48:07 I'm trying to remember how this went. I think it was because what I do is I actually run my model to simulate all the games, and then I take the most likely result as opposed to just picking teams. I think if you just pick teams, you're going to get some results that just don't make logical sense. So if you actually run your model to simulate all the games through the rest of the season, then you're going to get a result that at least is defensible. So basically, I think I have LSU beating Bama. There's still a Texas-LSU game remaining, right? And then there's also a Bama-LSU game remaining. And then LSU also has another one, which I think is at Tennessee. This whole SEC two-loss thing is wild. The thing that produced the five SEC teams

48:54 and the three 9-3 SEC teams is this. If you look at the non-conference record for the two-loss SEC teams, and I kind of blasted the SEC last year. I was like, look, man, it's not that great of a league this year. Not every year is created equal. You have to look at each year's results independent from each other.

49:13 Last year, they weren't that great. This year, all those two-loss teams in the SEC, they're 6-1 against the other power four leagues. and they won their games by more than two scores on average. They dominated everybody else non-conference. People are like, oh, three losses. My standpoint here is I think on the committee, it's far easier to jump a 9-3 over a 10-2 than it is to take a 10-2 over an 11-1. or an 11-1 over a 12-0.

49:39 I think as the losses mount for both teams you're comparing, I think it's easier just to make a quality judgment. If you look at the wins those SEC teams are going to have, I think they're going to be a lot better than what these 10-2 teams from the ACC Big 12 or Big 10 are going to have this year.

49:59 Do you think UCLA would be a lock at 10-2 if they lose to Michigan and USC? Because using that argument right there of some 9-3 teams, I think they're kind of better.

50:08 I don't think they're a lock, and the reason is this. It's kind of the Jordan-Travis rule where FSU got left out in 2023, right? Because Jordan-Travis got hurt, and the committee basically said, we don't think that the backup can play. They're not one of the four best teams without their starter. If you lose to Michigan and to USC in your final two games– I think they're still in, but I don't think it's a total lock because I think there's some chance the committee would say, all right, hold on a second. This is not their starter. The backup's kind of been figured out. The passing game is really limited.

50:45 Are we sure that this is one of the best 12 teams right now? I do lean to them being in, obviously, and I had them in my playoff, but I don't think it's a stone-cold lock.

50:55 What were your expectations to run it back a little bit when that Jordan Travis moment happened and they ran the table? Were you expecting them to get left out? Were you shocked? Were you pissed?

51:04 I was definitely pissed, yeah. I think if you look at that team and you look at the other teams in that playoff, think about who was on that defense. These are guys that are still kind of tearing up the NFL.

51:16 Versus Fisk.

51:17 Yeah. Right? I think three or four of the guys.

51:21 Bernardo Green is a starter for the Niners. He's good.

51:24 Yeah. Tatum Bethune, obviously. They had a lot of dudes on that defense. If you look at that, do I think they would have scored a lot of points against Michigan or Alabama? Who was the fourth in the playoff that year?

51:39 TCU.

51:40 Right. Do I think they would have scored a lot? No, TCU was 22.

51:44 Maybe that was Georgia that year, too.

51:45 Ohio State. Who did Washington beat, what, Texas that year in the Sugar Bowl? That was the Pennix game, yeah. Do I think they would have scored a lot of points? No, definitely not. Do I think the defense would have held those offenses with a Jalen Milrow Alabama or that Michigan offense with JJ? I think they would have probably made it a game. I wouldn't pick FSU in those games, but I thought the process was a little shady, but I think it's a shady sport.

52:14 Do you think– one thing I wrote down, we live in inflationary times. Do you think we need to look at– 12-0 was kind of the expectation for the elite team. And 11-1, it was a devastating week, whatever week that was. Hopefully, it didn't derail your entire year. Is 9-3 like the old 11-1 nowadays, like moving forward? Do we got to get more used to– I mean, with 2014 playoff, obviously, there's going to be a ton of– but just– You could have a really good season in this transfer portal times.

52:43 Nine and three is pretty good. But in our mind of watching it, especially if you're over 40 years old, you're like, that's average at best.

52:51 Well, I mean, look, the numbers just kind of prove this out. If you look at the gap between your number one team, and I put this on Twitter today, the number one team and a former top 30 team, just from a decade ago, the gap has shrunk by five points on the point spread. So if you're playing a bunch of field goal games as opposed to a bunch of games that have a spread of a touchdown, cumulatively, you play a lot more of those field goal games over the course of the year, you're going to pick up more losses. So I think in certain conferences, or if you have a real legitimate non-conference schedule where you're playing a major opponent in the non-conference, 9-3 is a pretty damn good accomplishment. And there are teams out there,

53:32 I'm like, That's a good team. They went 8-4, right? But they played good football this year. Maybe they didn't get all the breaks. 7-5 is a little bit harder to buy because most teams still have at least two gimme games. The chance that all your conference opponents are legitimately awesome is still pretty low, regardless of what league you're in. But yeah, man, 9-3, look at the preseason Vegas numbers. There were not that many 10.5, 11.5 win totals this year. Most of them came either with the Irish, Miami, or...

54:01 or some of the top Big 12 teams like a Texas Tech.

54:05 Obviously, Lane, 9-3. Lane's fine. He's got a $ 120 million contract or whatever. But when you look at Texas and Bama, you would say, listen, the standard for Nick, they lost two games back-to-back for the first time since 07. It had been a pretty good run. But Keelan Russell is clearly going to buy him no matter how weird. They could miss the playoffs, in my opinion, as long as Russell says, I'm back, that he's good. The Sark thing, Let's say he makes the playoffs, but he's one and done to an opponent who's viewed as an equal or a below. Does he survive this with how much money?

54:38 We just talked about how much money is getting stroked from these human beings, and they're going to need even more next year.

54:43 Like if you were to go on the road and lose to a BYU or something like that in the playoff, right?

54:48 Yes. That would be a good example. Go on the road to BYU and lose.

54:53 Right.

54:54 Ohio State would be like, okay, rematch. But BYU, I don't think many Texas boosters– are going to view them as a superior program.

55:01 Or if you lost to Ohio State's backup. What if Sayan is actually out for the year? A lot of people, I think, suspect.

55:09 You go on the road to the Rose Bowl and lose to UCLA. You'd definitely stay in Los Angeles.

55:14 Yeah, man. I think they would probably look at pulling the trigger on that. Because some of the problems that have plagued these Sark teams continue to rear their heads this year. Just like the inconsistency. You've got a $ 50 million roster, basically. Right. And that's a number where I think most people do these calculations don't have arch is a huge number because he like, apparently he doesn't take that much, I guess, and gets a lot of outside brand deals. So if you're like spending close to 50 independent of your, your QB one, and you're not like at least getting a home playoff game, what, what are we doing here? Especially like when you beat Ohio state and your schedule is not saying it's easy, but it's

55:53 not like after that, like some of their, their locations of these games, It's not like they're going to Athens. So, yeah, I think they'd probably take a look at it.

56:04 I would say the Oklahoma and Florida losses are, for good teams, teams that are in the top two, are two of the worst losses of the year. I mean, the Arch meltdown in the Oklahoma, and they had no offense. And in the.

56:16 Florida game, they were kicking their ass.

56:19 Who outplayed Arch? And it feels like Arch, everyone's kicking him when he's down, but given the hype, it has been pretty underwhelming.

56:26 I mean, Florida, to borrow the basketball analogy, they kind of just played hack-a-shack. Okay, Arch is not going to make his free throws on his hots. Florida blitzed him like 65% of the time. It was a crazy number. And he just never really made them pay. So the Arch thing is frustrating because the good is like really, really good. It's just the bad is like, man, how is the floor this low for a guy that's been in school this long?

56:57 I would have said that if he had a big game against Texas, Trinidad would have probably been in the driver's seat given that Jeremiah Smith's quarterback's out and that thing could go off the rails a little bit, not because of Jeremiah Smith, because he might not be able to throw. Do you think that game hurt his chances to win it? Because from an NFL standpoint, it was the first time I went, oh, that was– he's playing an NFL defense and it felt– Yeah. He felt small.

57:20 It's kind of like you watch Bryce Young against Tampa on Sunday and He'd been playing awesome. It's like, this is a great story. And then you're like, geez, what's going on here? Because it rears its ugly head with these small guys when you play this physical defense, and they just get swallowed. I'm not saying Trinidad got swallowed, but that was the first time in a while that I thought, wow, he couldn't just run away from these guys and make plays. He was throwing balls into the dirt.

57:45 He does kind of occasionally have these periods where he just kind of goes into a funk. It's almost like a pitcher who loses it for an inning. And then all of a sudden he kind of seems to get it back.

57:55 Happened in the Louisville game. It's happened in some games like the third quarter where they kind of just hit the skids for like three series.

58:02 Right. It's like, okay, that's a ball that Ole Miss schemes up, needs to be hit, and the game's probably over and just missed it. But look, C.J. Carr had that too against BYU. They scheme open a post route. There's nobody within 10 yards of the guy, and you just air mail it. Like that's on like a third and eight. Yeah. You don't get that many wide-open shots like that on third and eight. You've got to hit those.

58:26 I think it hurt Trinidad's case for sure. The other thing that will hurt Trinidad is this. I think if Kamario Taylor had stayed healthy, there's a chance at the end of the year that Ole Miss was having to play a 50-35 type game in the Egg Bowl on national TV against Kamario. Ole Miss comes out on top and Trinidad's thrown for 400 yards and five touchdowns. Now that game doesn't get top billing because Camaro is out for the year, according to the report. So they do still have some tough games left. If he goes and beats Georgia and Oxford, then I think he's right back in this thing. But all season I've maintained, hey, whoever balls in South Bend, November 7th, Miami at Notre Dame, is probably going to win this thing because recency bias

59:10 in the Heisman is real. And, like, that's probably a game that, like, one of the QBs can go off in. I think that's the guy that will probably win it. Or maybe Tony if he goes for, like, 203.

59:21 If you, let's say, four guys get the invite list, who would you say, as we sit here today, who would you bet on the four being?

59:27 I mean, Jeremiah's going to New York. Like there's, there's no doubt.

59:30 He's in.

59:31 I think he's a lock. Like, like even if his numbers dropped off, I think people would say, hold on. Like this guy might be the best receiver we've ever seen play college football. Like he's got to go to, like, he's got to be on so many ballots.

59:43 Right.

59:44 And then, shoot.

59:46 Everyone agrees he's the best player in the league. It's like when Saquon ran for 2000. He might not win the MVP, but he's the best offensive player in the league.

59:54 Exactly. I have a hard time seeing Mensah not go. Pretty deep into the season, he had thrown more touchdowns than incompletions. I don't know if he'll win it. Do you think you get two from one team, or do you think Tony doesn't go?

1:00:08 How rare does that happen? I mean, I guess Leinard Bush. I mean, it's a pretty rare thing. It feels like there's a lot of hype behind it, you know?

1:00:16 Right. Mac Jones Devante in the COVID year, I think, right?

1:00:22 It's crazy to say Mac Jones that loud.

1:00:24 Yeah, seriously, right? I'm trying to think who else here. Like, does Bachmeier get an invite if they go and run the table and win the Big 12? I think, like, he's a story people like, certainly. And then maybe CJ Carr. Mesta Maker, I guess, is the other one. If they light up Texas Tech and they run the table, I think there's actually still a chance they could make the Big 12 championship game if they get a lot of chaos around them. He's played super well. I actually thought in a losing effort, he played his butt off against Houston down there in Houston. That's like, oh man, this guy, he might be the best QB in college football.

1:01:02 And what, this is only the second year starting of his life?

1:01:05 Is that true? He didn't start in high school, correct? He didn't really start the first year in college. He started the bowl game. I remember talking to Cole Kublik about this because Cole had the call. Cole's at ESPN and SC Network. I remember talking to him. He's like, they're starting this kid who didn't even start in high school at all.

1:01:23 I was like, Wow.

1:01:25 I heard an interview with him.

1:01:27 I think he's a Texas kid, right? Yeah. He played at a power high school, and the guy that he backed up is like a star baseball player at Baylor. So it's not like he was some random kid.

1:01:38 Yeah.

1:01:39 And he's a good example in this. Again, I don't want to keep you too long. The college, you saw Dante Moore go back. I think a lot less people feel bad. He's been paid a lot of money. It was a shitty situation. But at the end of the day, like he's still relative to this quarterback class, probably still going to get drafted really high. Honestly, give me a top five pick and have made money. Everything's going to work out. I would bet on, but mess. The maker's a good example of like, I talked to my buddies in the NFL. They're like, he might be the best prospect, but I don't even think he's going to come out.

1:02:07 And he, him and Eric are like this. And who knows? I mean, there's a lot, if you're going to be the number one overall pick, but, They can give him $ 5 million. He likes where he's at. He feels comfortable. I would imagine if he were to return, they would probably be a preseason top 12, 15 team. Who knows?

1:02:23 Maybe does Eric Morris get a job? Does he go with him?

1:02:27 If he comes back, if it was not for the Morris thing, that's probably your first $ 10 million kid at QB. Such a known commodity legitimately passing. Do you really think Dante was going to go two last year? I don't know.

1:02:43 I think he would have been in the discussion for the 10, like a team trades back up or, you.

1:02:47 Know, kind of Matt Barkley ish to me. Like remember whenever it was like, Oh, Barkley come back to school. He passed up being like a surefire first rounder.

1:02:53 Like I'd say historically with his skills, he's like a first rounder, but like the second overall pick felt wild. Like is he Jaden Daniels? You know what I mean? I know skill wise, no chance.

1:03:05 Like some of the pocket presence stuff. I, I, I've always had a bit of concern with, you know, like when it's really clean, but there's guys in the NFL who fit that same profile and then they've had long careers, you know, so maybe it was a.

1:03:17 High character guy by all accounts. He's got all that stuff working for him.

1:03:20 So can I tell you about my new friends at trees.com?

1:03:32 Do you know that they're America's largest and most trusted online nursery? I don't know about you, but I added some ficus trees to my backyard. We'll try to add to the feng shui, the vibe. And, you know, you work with a landscaper. They give you these quotes. You're like, am I totally getting screwed? And then I went to trees.com.

1:03:56 And I just had them delivered to my house. Because here's the thing. They're guaranteed. They're alive and thrive guarantee promises that your plants arrive happy. and healthy. No green thumb required. Just quality plants you can count on. So they're delivered to your house and you don't have to do any legwork and you can see all the prices up front. So there's no like, well, this is how much are we paying? And I cannot recommend them enough.

1:04:23 So right now they have great deals. If you want to build for your backyard, your front yard, and you don't feel comfortable with what you're being quoted, you can just check it all online. And if you want to get anything, Olive trees, lemon trees delivered right to your front door. So right now they have great deals on planting essentials up to half on select plants. And listeners to our show, they get 20% off their first purchase using the code 3, the number 3, and out at checkout.

1:04:55 That's an additional 20% off. Better plants, better growing at trees.com using 3 and out at checkout. That's Trees, T-R-E-E-S,. com, code number three and out. Valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions apply. Before I get you out of here, I know you have a pretty cool company that you've created, started, and it's a sports card on the blockchain. Am I saying that correctly?

1:05:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:05:33 You tell us.

1:05:34 Yeah, so it's Level Up Sports. You can hit us up, levelupsports.com. So it's pretty sure the first of its kind, actually asset-backed sports trading cards. And the asset is a small piece of the player's college earnings. So if you're the type of guy out there that likes finding prospects early, like you want to invest in them, you want to help support them, in their career. You know, we go out, we secure a small, like non-predatory percentage, obviously, of the guy's college earnings in exchange for upfront money. You know, we're able to actually put that out on blockchain. And we represent each of those little slices of the player's college earnings as a really slick digital trading card that's

1:06:13 actually a collectible in its own right. So you can buy and sell and trade on there. And we just launched last week and I'm really excited about it.

1:06:20 Who are, I mean, is it players at all? Like, freshmen, juniors, sophomores, doesn't matter? Do you have to get in early? Can you buy at any time? How does that work?

1:06:29 Yeah, so we can't reveal who the guys are yet because this is actually an SEC-regulated financial product, right? So there's rules on who I can say. But the first drop will be within a week or two of when this airs. So definitely, if you want to get on the wait list, levelupsports.com. We'll have some updates. And obviously, the folks on the wait list will get that first notification of who the first is. player is, you know, some of the guys are going to be players that everybody will know. And some of the guys will be players who, you know, your kind of prospect heads will know as well. But, you know, some freshmen, you know, some guys who are finishing up their junior or senior year of high school. And we also are doing, you know,

1:07:04 college basketball. You know, we have a number of players across other sports as well. So kind of something for everybody we're trying to design.

1:07:12 That's awesome. Who's your, as we sit here today, who you got winning the natty?

1:07:18 Man, I think it might be LSU.

1:07:22 I didn't expect that.

1:07:24 Yeah, but they seem to be coming together. I know Auburn was in a letdown spot, but man, they smoked them.

1:07:32 They throttled them.

1:07:33 The game was over fast. I know a lot of SEC teams who, behind the scenes, really wanted Leavitt and were not really willing to dump their incumbent starter, but they thought he was better than the guy coming back. Right. And ultimately, obviously, you know, Lane got them there at LSU, you know, getting traded as greenback, I think matters a ton for that team. Like that guy, he looks like a first rounder tight end to me. I mean, I'm not a, Not an NFL scout, but.

1:08:01 Like, dude, top 15 pick.

1:08:04 He's like twitchy Antonio Gates. So that'll play in the league. They just look really good. I obviously, I trust Lane's play calling. I trust Baker. They just, the only thing I don't trust is Lane not to, not to slip up and blow a stupid game. Like, I think you'll have been very ready for Alabama. Is he going to have them ready, you know, to go play one of these remaining road games that they really should win. That that's kind of been like the bugaboo a little bit for Lane throughout his career.

1:08:31 I did think, and I know Cincinnati's a Big 12 team, but they're the little guy money-wise compared to Texas Tech. And I thought them kicking Texas Tech's butt after the big money guy had talked and talked and belittled and then them tagging him on Twitter. That was cool. That's college football. That's a throwback to when coaches used to hate each other. We don't get enough of that anymore.

1:08:55 I love it. Absolutely. I think Cincinnati's staff, man, their front office, staff, I think they're a killer. Honestly. Satterfield, I think, is fine as a coach. I don't think he's as bad as people think. I don't think he's like Nick Saban, but they do not have a lot of money to play with, and they just consistently put together a competitive roster in a P4 conference. It's They do a really good job with D2 and D3 and finding guys that really– they assign a guy. That just kind of makes sense, man, for what they do. Much like Indiana finds good fits, on a smaller scale, I think Cincinnati does that as well. Zach and those guys do a good job. One of his number twos is now at Penn State. Now that Penn State actually has

1:09:36 a full offseason to actually put together a transfer class, interested to see what they do up there. Maybe a little better results this time.

1:09:42 Well, I could nerd out. Obviously, you're big into recruiting, so these GMs, I mean, their jobs. I mean, it's become NFL-like. I mean, it's become a profession, and it pays. I got buddies that dabble. I know people that have left, and they're making more money working in college football than they were working for their pro team.

1:09:59 Yeah, I mean, some of these guys, even some of these number twos are making a quarter million or more. It's a pretty decent living doing something you love.

1:10:07 Yeah, not exactly living in some high-priced town either, so the money goes a lot farther. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it, bud. Cover three podcasts. I listen mainly Saturday nights. I stay up way too late when I have to get up early on Sunday, but you guys record basically. It feels like every day you guys are posting stuff.

1:10:24 Yeah, so during the season, we are Monday, Tuesday, recruiting episode with Andrew Ivins and myself comes out on Wednesdays. Every other Wednesday, we're on CBS Sports Network on the cable channel, and then, of course, Saturday nights for sure.

1:10:38 Well, I appreciate you, bud. Have a great day, man.

1:10:40 Enjoyed it. Appreciate you having me on.

1:10:44 The volume.