BEST OF THE HERD – Epic World Series | 49ers & Seahawks Make Big Moves

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This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio.

It is a Wednesday. Welcome in. We are live and it is The Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. We're live in Los Angeles. Well, listen, Milwaukee's the better team. They had 12 of the 13 hardest hit balls last night, but nine went for outs. They're a really good team.

Little miscue late. But these are excellent teams. Tampa probably just too good to get swept. But Milwaukee's loaded. 17 total hits, stolen bases, home runs, a lot of late-inning drama. This was a great night for Major League Baseball. The pitching's excellent. Before the last inning, 11 guys out of the bullpen pitched and didn't give up a run. So I keep watching this series thinking, what do the Yankees do with all their money? They don't do almost anything well except hit home runs. Here's Connor Pratt, 12th inning, fourth hit, a wave of Milwaukee studs, hits a home run, you think it's over. And then here's Tampa putting the first five base runners on in the bottom of the inning.

And eventually, Tampa's been a great team all year, getting hits with runners in scoring position. But when I watch this series, what it really says is, is no more excuses for the Reds or the Pirates fans or the Royals fans or the Mariners or A's fan. These teams do so many things. Well, the Rays and the Brewers, both are top five in fewest hits allowed. Milwaukee led the entire sport in hits. Tampa was second. The Brewers were second in team ERA. The Rays were first in whip.

And they're 1-2 batting average with runners in scoring position. Milwaukee's the better team. They're hitting the ball on the screws all last night at people. They're going to be fine. But the bullpens are rock solid, and the Rays are probably just too good to get swept. The other thing is, every at-bat is a great at-bat. I mean, I'm watching the Dodgers. Otani was having bad at-bats. There are no bad at-bats. The average at-bat in this series is four-plus pitches.

That is historically grinding. That's usually not the case. So you don't get any more excuses. It's a little like the NIL and the transfer portal in college football. UCLA football is 7-0, and Kentucky's as good as any team in the SEC. I don't want to hear about it. I don't want to hear about you're still building in year five. UCLA is undefeated and can win road games and doesn't have a lot of NIL money. The two non-salary cap sports that we watch in America are college football and Major League Baseball. Those are the two non-salary cap sports. I've got UCLA undefeated in football, Kentucky a basketball school, excellent in football, and the Rays and the Brewers with low payrolls, right? They're good at everything. Now,

Milwaukee is better than the Rays at almost everything, but they're like one and two or one and three. Team ERAs, whip, total hits, batting average with runners in scoring position. I don't want to hear about the excuses. If you've got the right people in the building and not just bloated old guys and old salaries, you can put together this.

And here's Kevin Nash on the Rays, backs against the wall, staying alive.

It's kind of a chip in the chair mentality. You know, you're sitting there. We just want to do everything we can to get the play to the next day. I'm really impressed with the way the guys hung in there.

That was a grind.

You know, you're going through three innings at Ashby. Nothing's going offensively.

They kept their heads up, and we just kind of bought ourselves some time.

So I've always said I've always had a, I call it the substitute teacher syndrome. is that if you fire a football coach in the middle of a season and give the interim guy the job, players will love the interim coach. Right? Because he's doing things the head coach wasn't. He's not as hard. He wants the job. He makes sure the players love him. So the players will go to ownership and management and say, hire the interim coach.

Everybody loves the substitute teacher. That's how Antonio Pierce got the Raiders job. He gave fiery speeches. Former players loved him. Then he goes 4-13 when it's his team. Nothing against Antonio Pierce, but he went linebacker coach to head coach. And you see this all the time. You've got to be careful. In the NFL, about firing coaches, everybody in New York wants to fire Aaron Glenn. What happens if somebody gets on his staff and they win six straight?

I mean, you don't know. They have personnel. And all of a sudden, you're hiring, you got a linebacker coach who's trying to go up against Mike Vrabel or Josh Allen. So it's very interesting to me. Yesterday, the Colts gave away two really good players. They fired... Chris Ballard, their GM. They got very emotional. They lost to the Vikings, and he's out of here. And so now somebody in the building now is GM, and they gave away Quentin Nelson to the Seahawks. By the way, it's a no-risk trade, because if Quentin Nelson leaves Seattle and doesn't sign a contract, Seattle gets a compensatory pick. So John Snyder's laughing all the way to the bank here. He can't lose on this.

He gave him away for a third time. For a bottom of the third and a bottom of the fifth. Remember, Seahawks are great. So that pick in the third isn't a top pick. It's the very end of the third and the very end of the fifth. An end of the fifth round NFL pick now with NIL, which has really gutted mid-fifth round on. Like the middle of the fifth on is bad. It wasn't eight years ago. The NIL guys are staying in college. Those are special teams guys.

It feels like to a large degree. So basically for a third round pick, you get Quentin Nelson. And if he leaves, you get a compensatory pick. You stole him. And then you have Forrest Bruckner, three-time Pro Bowler. He's had some injuries, but the Niners got him for nothing. A fourth-round pick. And again, the Niners are great. So it's a bottom of the fourth-round pick. So basically, two of their top three or four players you gave away with one what you would call elite pick, the bottom of the third. And by the way, another reason you want to get picks that are at top of the first, second, or third, because you can trade those down and get more additional picks. The bottom of a round does nobody

any good. Hell, the bottom of the first round is dead man walking area for GMs. Once you get after about the 20th, 22nd, 23rd pick, you're paying a first-round price for a second-round guy. So it's a prime example. Why didn't they wait until the trade deadline was over, let Ballard make the moves, but instead they gave away Quentin Nelson to a team that's already better than them, and they gave away DeForest Bruckner. and be very careful. Again, this is what teams do with interim coaches. They want to fire Aaron Glenn, and somebody gets on the staff, wins five straight, he gives fiery speeches, and all of a sudden you've got a linebacker coach going up against Mike Frabel in division. So the Colts yesterday looked like,

you know what they looked like? Because I always thought the Colts have always kind of felt, got a bad break with Andrew Luck's retirement. They always kind of felt like a middle-of-the-pack team that just needs a quarterback. If they got a quarterback like the Minnesota Vikings, they'd be very good. But yesterday they felt like the Titans and the Arizona Cardinals and the Jets. They got overly emotional.

They lose to the Vikings. Let's bum rush guys out of the building. And then you're giving away Quentin Nelson. I mean, a third, late third round pick. I mean, Seattle doesn't have holes. I mean, they really don't. What they do is if they lose a guy in free agency, they'll just draft that position. Like they lost Kenneth Walker.

They draft a running back. They don't have any holes. So their whole line was already top 10. So they basically steal a guy to ensure Sam Darnold will be able to throw on play action because they did lose Kenneth Walker. But last week we just watched, they got Kansas city with guys you've never heard of at running back.

So this is just, I mean, this is why certain GMs and certain teams are at the top of the league. Quentin Nelson for a bottom of the third, bottom of the fifth pick. And San Francisco, credit, bottom of the fourth round. And San Francisco, to a large degree, looked like Give J-Mac credit. This is what we predicted Bruckner to the Niners yesterday on the show. We said the next move in the NFL will be the Niners reacting to the Seahawks because Quentin Nelson broke during our show yesterday.

And we said, watch the Niners go out and get DeForest Bruckner. I still contend Khalil Mack with the Chargers is on the market. Keep your eye on the Bears. But here's Nick Wright yesterday on the Quentin Nelson trade.

To me, the NFC is the Niners, the Seahawks, and the NFC North with the Rams hanging on by a thread. And I think Seattle says, if we are... going to get through, if the Rams end up turning it around, it will in part be because Miles Garrett comes back and that D-line is ferocious. The Vikings obviously have a ferocious defense. And I think the Seahawks are saying we have to make sure we can protect Darnold.

I love the trade for them.

By the way, Buckner is still pretty young. He's not in his prime. He's like 32. But the Niners are all beat up. And so I think this is the chess match that is the NFC West, is everybody came in thinking it was the Rams, and now it's the Niners. Seattle reacts to that, and then the Niners react to Seattle.

So DeForest Buckner's a guy that can absolutely solidify plus for a bottom of the fourth round pick. That's good jamming. That is... You know, every business I've ever been involved with, it is so much of the business is based on upstairs. It's not the people you see on TV. It's not just the quarterback. It's all the guys upstairs making the deals.

The Colts yesterday felt like a, you know, Devoris Buckner. Here, go have him. He's a good player. Quentin Nelson, he's yours. He's a great player. And there's a reason the two top teams in the league right now, many believe Seattle and San Francisco. Yeah. I'm sorry. I keep your eye. Also bears Khalil Mack and the Kansas city chiefs at wide receiver. So you have Ryan polls, aggressive general manager, Brett Veach, aggressive general manager. Keep your eye on the bears, potentially getting an edge rusher, potentially price has to be right. Um, And I think Kansas City is going to take a swing.

It will be a mature. It won't be a gadget guy. They got worthy. It won't be an immature guy. They have Rishi Rice. It will be a mature guy that can be a volume receiver, maybe not a burner, maybe not a star, but a guy that can come in and give you 65 catches.

I know Jags fans do not want to give Brian Thomas to the Chiefs. I cannot envision that happening in the conference.

Jags could be.

Contender in the AFC, so I don't see them giving up Brian Thomas. Tough to find anyone wanting to help the Chiefs, though, Colin. Like, hey, Patrick Mahomes, you don't need any help, buddy.

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple teams that feel like they have an extra receiver. Brian Thomas is really talented, but the Chiefs have a surplus of guys over the last four or five years that you wonder about their commitment and common sense. Brian's been a guy that is more talented than his production. Yeah. And so do, am I getting somebody else that is like, not nothing wrong with him, but it's like, gosh, he should be better.

Is there, is there stuff behind the scenes? We don't know. That feels like a little bit of a risk to me.

And the chiefs fans also think Tyreek Hill will make his return from a gruesome injury and come back with the chiefs at some point, but I don't know what he's going to be off that injury.

That's a, he's another drama guy.

Yeah.

That's the problem.

Him and Rasheed Rice in the same wide receiver room.

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Welcome to Football Doesn't Lie.

Hi, I'm Bill Parcells.

And I'm Catherine Zazzora.

I have a lot of experience in the game of football, Catherine.

And I'm learning the game with Bill's help. Every week, we're going to talk about the NFL slate through the lens of Bill's expertise as he coaches me from novice fan to football expert over the course of the season.

You know, I'm looking forward to this show, Catherine, and hopefully we can give our audience a little in-depth look into the inner sanctum of pro football that they can't get anywhere else.

Tune in every Thursday for unfiltered stories from Coach Parcells, analysis on the state of the modern game, and education on how football really works.

Continuity is very important. But what happens when you get good coaches on your staff and people begin to recognize them, then they want to hire them. And then you can't stop a guy from trying to improve himself, but you have to replace them.

Because once you understand what's going on inside the mind of the coaches, you'll understand more about the whole game.

So all aspects can be discussed. The only thing I haven't done... because I didn't have enough money. I don't own the team. I never owned a team.

Listen to Football Doesn't Lie on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Here we go, it's hour two. Phil Simms around the corner. What to make of J.J. McCarthy and the New York Giants in first place? What a story that is. A great, great night for Major League Baseball last night. The Rays and the Brewers, low payrolls, yet our first, second, or third, it feels like, in every big stat in baseball. Great to have you in. We're live in Los Angeles. Knocking down a Smashburger last night in MB. Living the big life, J-Mac. So...

I do it about every three or four weeks. And there really does feel like in the NFL, the NFL is getting more and more. There's a business model that works, and it didn't feel like this 10 years ago. The NFL feels more like pre-NIL college football, where there was a clear have and have nots, a clear pecking order.

So if I did a Super Bowl bubble today, and it is Halloween week, so it's more of a Super Bowl cauldron, right in the best two teams, I think, are Seattle and San Francisco in my Super Bowl bubble. So the closer to the center, the better chance I think you have to win the Super Bowl. I know one's got a defensive coach. I'll get to that in a second. Then let's fill in some blanks. Teams that I think have what it takes. I think many of these will be considering a trade deadline move to patch up a hole. Bears, Bills, Patriots, Rams, Chiefs. I don't think they're Seattle and San Francisco. Patriots, Now the team that's right on the edge, I've got them in barely, is Denver. I don't think you can play from behind

as regularly as Denver does. They're a bad first-half offense, so I would put the Denver Broncos right on the edge of in and out of my Super Bowl playoff bubble. Again, I love the coach. I think their roster's good. I think they have a pass rush. I think you can't live playing from behind, but they're in. but close to being out. And then there's three teams that there's Bengals, Lions, and the Jags. Lions, defensively, am I ever going to trust them? Bengals, half to half, do they have an elite coach? I like Jacksonville a lot. I still can't believe they lost that Houston game, so they're close. And this is really what's interesting to me, is 10 years ago in the NFL, On any given Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,

I'd be talking about Belichick, Patriots, Pete Carroll, Mike Tomlin, and their football wisdom aged very fast as defensive guys. The only two defensive coaches in the league that I consider top of the market are Vrabel in New England and Mike McDonald. Now, you'll say D'Amico Ryans. I'll get to that in a second. So it's mostly there is a business formula now. Get a young offensive coach or just an offensive coach, and he'll identify the quarterback and elevate the quarterback. The two defensive guys who are the exceptions are Mike McDonald, but yet look at what he did yesterday. Shored up his offensive line. Who was the number one pick? A running back. Last year at the trade deadline, what did Mike McDonald do? Rashid Saheed. Because

he knows, Mike McDonald knows, and John Snyder, as great as the Seahawks defense is, they beat the Rams last year 38-37 and 31-27. You can't stop anybody. So the defensive coach I think is the best in the league is Seattle's. Even he knows. First round, trade deadline, what do you do? You solve the offense. The other one is Mike Vrabel. Who did Mike Vrabel want? Wide receiver A.J. Brown.

What has Mike Vrabel pushed for the last two years in the first round and delivered? Offensive tackles. In fact, the last two drafts, three of their top four picks are offensive guys. So this is where I think McDonald and Vrabel separate from D'Amico Ryans. D'Amico Ryans can't solve the run game. Still can't get the offensive line right.

Still can't. So the two defensive coaches to me who are top of the market are guys. They may be defensive coaches, but they understand what's happened culturally. It's an offensive league. So that's and that's I saw this stat this morning. Staff did a great job since 2012. Twenty eight teams in the Super Bowl, right? Twenty eight different teams made the Super Bowl since 2012. Twenty seven and twenty eight above average offensively. Houston can't get there. So you can tell me the Minnesota Vikings, oh, they're 6-0.

They're 6-0. Minnesota, I love Brian Flores. Can't get to the Super Bowl. You can do regular seasons different. But you start looking at these teams. There is a clear, clear, how many defensive coaches do I have in this? Now, it's just me, but Seattle and New England, and both those guys have a very good feel for offense and how valuable offensive pieces are.

The eye test is one thing. I looked up the odds for to win the super bowl and there's a little bit of a disconnect here um first of all the detroit lions are plus 2100 furthest odds of anyone on the screen broncos and patriots are plus 1900 there's a team not even on the screen ahead of those.

Three yeah i know who it is who the last place ravens no Minnesota Vikings, Colin! They can't do it.

The bane of your existence, because they have defense and offense as a question mark.

No, no, no. 27 of 28 teams, you've got to be above average offensively. So there is a clear pecking order in this league. There is a business model now. College football used to have a business model. Go to a high school talent-rich area, Alabama, Louisiana, Ohio. And get a very great recruiting coach, Saban, Kirby Smart, Lane Kiffin.

That was the business model. Your coach had to be a great recruiter. Is Signetti a great recruiter? Well, Indiana's got a good paycheck. They got a good checkbook. So in college now, I don't know week to week what I'm getting. I have no idea. I mean, UCLA is better than Michigan? I mean, like, overnight? How does that make any sense? They're better than Alabama? UCLA is better than Alabama? Like, significantly. So I don't know what it is.

The NFL's the opposite. The NFL's got a pecking order, haves-haves-nots. That's why I say you can hire a defensive coach, but he better understand that there is a ceiling on what you can do on that side of the ball, and Vrabel smartly Three of his first four picks have been offensive guys, A.J. Brown, and you see Mike McDonald here.

He and John Snyder are like, let's make Donald better. That doesn't mean you can't let Kenneth Walker go. You don't have to re-sign everybody, but I thought them getting Rashid Sahid and selecting him over Kenneth Walker is a little instructive.

And also, by the way, Vikings, Brian Flores is going to be one of the hot names around the league.

I know he has that small legal thing. What did he fail at in Miami? He hated the quarterback and the quarterback hated him.

By the way, Ravens are ahead of the Bears in Super Bowl odds. So if you're looking to buy low, Ravens right now, plus 1,300. But don't you have, I don't know about everybody else, but I have this thing.

With quarterbacks. I've always said, hat on forward. I need you available. I don't want mystery. Put out fires. For all the criticisms I have of Jalen Hurts, he puts out fires in Philadelphia. Can't see over the line for down the seam throws. But when I look at Lamar Jackson, I can't unsee. I'm not saying he's Kawhi Leonard, but you're getting the same kind of thing where it's like a lot of mystery. He's been day-to-day for weeks. The team doesn't know.

In the offseason, he wanted a new contract and did not get it. If he suffers a major injury here this year, what's his future? He doesn't have that contract and that security. So I wonder if he's slow playing this.

To come back.

Like, sorry guys, unless I'm 100%, I'm not coming back.

I don't have a contract.

Could he be worried about his potential major injury, Colin? I think that's... I mean, Daniel Jones, you know, some of these quarterbacks and he's a runner.

I don't know.

I mean, I'm rooting for Lamar. I have a lot of money tied into the Ravens.

Futures that don't look like they're going to hit.

Most wins was one that I had. He is practicing, though. He showed up at practice, I think it's like 10 minutes ago. He's taking snaps on the field, so it looks like he's a go.

Okay. Phil Simms is around the corner here on Halloween week.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m.

Pacific.

15 years with the Giants, made multiple Pro Bowls, two-time Super Bowl champ, MVP of one of them, a first-round pick at a Moorhead State. You know, they haven't delivered a lot of quarterbacks after Phil That was kind of an outlier there. NFL, college football, it's Phil Simms, our friend. Simms Complete is his podcast. You know, I was looking at the Giants. I think it's, you had a Barker as a head coach. I don't know if John Harbaugh is.

You had Parcells. And most of the guys, Andy Reid barks, Saban barked. A lot of the coaches, they lead by volume.

They lead.

I don't look at John Harbaugh as a barker. I really don't. Between him and Jim, if one of them you told me yelled, it wouldn't be John. What is he doing? I mean, he's on three different quarterbacks now. Phil, what are you hearing? What are you seeing? What is his magic potion for a team that really, if you're on a third quarterback, you have no business being in first place. People looked at this as a six-win team.

What's his magic sauce?

Well, you know, it's really hard to answer, but I would say this. He's absolutely different than what you think. He looks like the really friendly guy.

There he is. We could be friends.

But he commands respect on the field. And I'm sure the players all during training camp calling are going, you know, man, it was rough and he was tough on them. But he is sending the message out all the time. And I'll just go to one real quick. Kim Scadaboo, he's fumbling the football. Come over here and stand next to me, big guy, because that's where you're going to be if you're going to fumble the football. So he has really gained the respect of all the players on the team.

You know, watching practice during training camp this year.

It was everything but go to the ground. They were thud.

He was in control of all that, everything that was going on. And he's been a big surprise. I guess a lot of us think, you know, John Harbaugh, but I've seen it in person and it's real.

What are the Giants doing to support J.J. McCarthy, who not only won the game, but I thought that was the most confident version by a wide margin that I had ever seen. I thought he looked great. I said on the air, did we have our next Sam Darnold? That was high-end playmaking. What are they doing to support him?

Well, I think the biggest thing is, you know, being sitting here on Sunday waiting to see the game, I thought they'll be really careful. A lot of short passes. And it was just the opposite. They went into the strengths of J.J.

McCarthy. What are his strengths? One, he's mobile.

And the other one is he has a really strong arm. And throwing it down the field. You know, I hear this all the time. I expected a short passing game to protect him.

But it makes sense.

The Giants were aggressive in every way possible against the Houston Texans. As you throw it down the field, there's less traffic. You see everything because there's not a lot of people back there.

And you can make good decisions. And he made great throws all day long.

You know, this is a good problem to have. But it was suggested over the last couple days is you put he and Jackson Dart up. Okay. Like, what happens? I mean, let's just throw this out there. You got the Eagles on a backup. The Cowboys can't stop anybody. Washington's got all sorts of issues, honestly, on roster coaching.

What if the Giants... I said before the season I thought they were a playoff team. What I'm watching right now is absolutely a playoff team and a tough out... What do you do if J.J. McCarthy is throwing the ball around the yard and you're a playoff team that wins a game? What does that do to next year's camp?

Well, you know, I'll just say this first.

What happened this past weekend surprised me and surprised, I think, a lot of people. And that's a good problem to have. And, you know, everywhere I've gone in the last day or two, before people can even– I said– I don't know. They go, do you think they're going to trade Jackson to Hart? So I think the Giants, as they look at this, they go, this is a really good problem to have if he continues to play. I don't think he'd continue the rest of the season playing at such a almost like perfect, but you know, The offensive coordinator, Matt Nagy, has right away put an offense in that fits J.J.

McCarthy to a tee. Get him away from the line. The offensive line of the Giants is blocking pretty well.

It is.

Get him back deep. It's easy to see down the field. And he's got that big arm, not afraid to throw it into tight spots. And the other thing is he's got receivers now with the Giants. So a lot of the Giants— Oh, is the O-line good enough? Quarterback play?

Is Malik Nabors going to be who he wanted to be? No, he's not. He's better than you expected.

And it's really fun to watch it and to see the throws down the field, the wide receivers, just the way they're acting, the way they handled themselves in the game, too. It's just everything was clicking for the Giants. And me being a fan, I'm just disappointed this was a bye week for them.

You know, it's interesting. Sometimes in the NFL, like right now I think, and most people would agree, that Seattle has the deepest roster without a hole. Their special teams are good. They could probably use another receiver after J.S. Other than that, it is a... I mean, I like the Niners, but they're old and beat up. Seattle's young and doesn't get hurt. Their only old guy is Leonard Williams.

You know him, and he never gets hurt. So my take on them is... Kansas City got boat raced. But my takeaway was it's Seattle. They were in a bad mood. It was kind of urgent. You have to throw the tape away or and you can go to your career on this because it really made Kansas City look, oh, they got six problems. Or did you ever have a game in the NFL? You're like, guys, that's a great team.

They had to win. We didn't. Was there ever a throw the tape away game for you and just don't take anything from it?

Well, yes, unfortunately I had quite a few of those play our games where we didn't throw it away, but you know, probably for me in my career, it was the Philadelphia Eagles and this guy named Reggie White and the head coach over there, Buddy Ryan.

I mean, it was just an all out assault on you.

And if you just played mediocre, you thought, damn, that was a really good day for me. So, you know, so I kind of feel for the Kansas City Chiefs a little. When you look at Seattle, they might be one of the bigger teams. They are one of the bigger teams in the NFL, but they have size and speed. They are fast all over defensive linemen who can really run everything. So they're they're a tremendously tough matchup for any team out there. And it's you don't see that kind of domination too often in pro football. But we saw it when they played the other night.

Yeah. I looked at the trade yesterday and this I've always said I call it my substitute teacher syndrome. When you fire when you fire a coach in the middle of the season, they put in the interim. The players love him because he's nicer on the players. You win two or three games and everybody said he's the head coach.

It's like, slow down. Everybody loves the substitute teacher. Let's not make the linebacker coach, the head coach going against Mike Vrabel twice a year or Sean Payton twice a year. Settle down. So the Colts fire their GM before the trade deadline because they lost to the Vikings, and they freak out. Well, they gave away Quentin Nelson yesterday for a third-round pick, but the bottom line is Seattle's so good, it'll be a bottom of the third-round pick, and they gave away DeForest Buckner twice. to the Niners for a fourth round pick. And that'll be at the bottom of the fourth round pick. In your era, there weren't a lot of trades. Now the GMs are young. They're like baseball guys. They're trading left and right. Do you worry

about adding a big money ticket guy to a team in week seven or eight?

Would I worry about it if I was on that team?

No, I'd be happy that the general manager went out there and got another player who can contribute to what we do. And during my career, which everybody that was in the same age as me or whatever, we didn't see much of this at all at all. And but just think of it this way. You build your team and when you get something good, you got him.

And he's there.

I mean, I played with Lawrence Taylor for 13 years. We were teammates.

That's pretty good. Carl Banks.

I mean, you name all the good players on the Giants when I was there. There's a reason why we won game because we had really good players who the organization, of course, wasn't going to let anybody go. And it was hard to say, oh, I'm a free agent to go out there and look for other a bigger paycheck.

That wasn't going to happen either. So the only guy I can think of that we actually went out and got is and it really helped us was OJ Anderson.

Yeah.

Cause we had a lot of running backs and I think they looked at it and go, you know, we were really into smashing. And so we needed a big running back and Bill Parcells went out there and got OJ Anderson. And it turned out to be a really good thing for our football team.

You know, um, I went and watched Caleb Williams and Drake May. I went to the game. And I've done this, Phil, in my career is when LeBron broke out to be a great player, I went to a few LeBron games. I wanted to watch him live.

Right.

And like, oh, Shohei Otani, Dodgers. I got to go see that live. And you can't believe how big he is in person. He makes all the other, even good players. He makes them look like AAA baseball guys. He's just huge. And it's interesting. I went and watched Caleb and Drake May and Caleb Williams in person. He's a TV doesn't do him justice. You played with some think the greatest player ever. Now I watched Lawrence Taylor on TV. He was unbelievable. You saw him at practice every day. You saw him intimidate pro bowl players. So I watched Caleb and I told friends this. I'm like, you have to go see him live. You don't even understand the arm strength. um, what do you, first of all, what do you make of Caleb? And, and, and it was in your life,

were there players as an NFL guy that you watched and then you played against them and you're like, Oh my God, he's way better than you see him on CBS or NBC or Fox.

Oh, well, yeah. You know, where do I begin with Caleb?

I knew when you started that question and said, I went to the game live, I said, you were shocked to see him in person, wherever you were sitting, that the talent and everything and how it looks different. It even looks better in person than it does on TV. And the same with Drake May. You know, Drake May throws 40 and 50-yard balls in the air, and I'm like, God, I'd just be happy as an ex-quarterback if you just made it look a little harder because it's just nothing for these guys to be explosive down the field, throwing the football. And Caleb Williams, after his rookie year, you know, a lot of people talked about him. And I said, man, if they redraft, I'm still taking him number one without question.

I'm running to the commissioner. We want Caleb. And there's Ben Johnson. Man, you're talking about a good combination between the two.

They're perfect. And what he's really done, Ben.

Johnson, just watching and seeing Caleb play and how he acts and everything like that, you can tell they've connected. And all I can say to all the teams that got to play Chicago, look out. This is not going to die quickly, that's for sure.

You know, you had one of my favorite coaches ever is Bill Parcells. Oh, yeah. when I watch the old films with you guys, I think it's like, it's honestly, it's funny. I think you're self-deprecating. I think Parcells had the unique ability to be angry, but he had this touch where he was kicking you in the butt, but he was patting you on the shoulder sometimes, which is kind of an art. And I look around the NFL and a lot of the coaches that don't work, they're nice guys. But Rabel's intimidating and Shanahan's intimidating and Ben Johnson's intense. And there is an intensity to coaching and an intimidation thing that you lived. Did you know instantly in your career, even with assistant coaches, coordinators, position coaches,

Did you know instantly the guy's got it or he doesn't? Did you know Parcells day one had it? Because I watch these young coaches. Phil, we're firing guys left and right. Like, guys get nine games. Do you know as a player when you've got a star coach instantly? Do you know?

I would say this, just from personal experience, his first year with the Giants, he was trying to be friends with a lot of the older players and all that. And you know, that doesn't work. You know, in the second year, I remember I was in the weight room one day and he walks up to me in the weight room. And he goes, listen, Sims, because they were trying to fire him and get somebody else to take over the team, and nobody would take the job. He goes, if I survive this, by God, we're going to do it my way. And his way immediately came out. And you said a couple things that are so true. He was tough as hell on you. But you build up where you can take it. And also he knew how to soften it every once in a while by saying

something maybe nice about you or pat you on the shoulder and just walking by you and go, You know, son, I'm really proud of you. You're doing everything right. And he might walk away, and you just go, man, coach said something nice about me. I must be really playing well. So I'll make the story quick. I probably told you this once. Walking to training camp, he's five yards in front of me. I got to get to the field because we got to do early work as quarterbacks.

So I said, well, what the hell? Here I go. I went around him. He goes, come here, Sims. And I go, yeah, I got to go to the field.

He goes.

I'm the coach, Sims, get over here. So he gets over, he says all these nice things about me. You're leading, you're this, you're practicing great. I'm really proud of who you are and all this stuff. And I said, oh man, thanks coach. I get ready to walk away. He goes, but I just want to tell you today, I'm going to absolutely destroy you on the field.

And I go, you know, and I got a little mad. I go, well, why?

He goes, because I got to send a message to the rest of these guys who are not practicing well, and they got to hear it.

And the only way I can think to do it is to do it through you.

So I'm practicing. Things are going great. And all of a sudden, I throw an incompletion. He takes his papers, throws them in the air.

Sims!

And there I am standing there going, this is all make-believe, but It wasn't about me. It was about him reaching all the other players. And I say this all the time. He was tough. That's the reason. We practiced hard every day. Every day was the most important day of going to practice. And, you know, he was the adult in the room. And we learned that.

We respected it, of course.

And we knew we didn't have to guess what it was going to be like. He taught us it's going to be this way. And it was eight years for me under him that You know, there were a lot of tough moments, that's for sure.

So I want one question on Arch Manning. And when you have the Manning name, it puts pressure on everybody. It puts it on Arch. It puts it on Sark. It puts it on Texas. It puts it on everybody. That's just that's American royalty. Your son, obviously, after your success in the biggest media market in the country and you're winning Super Bowl MVP and your son then goes to Texas. And the reality and I've said this, there is even Sark like you don't want to screw up.

you know, a Superbowl MVPs kid, there's a pressure to have Sims kid or the Manning's kids with NIL. Like a lot of times we look at a kid staying in college as a weakness. Oh, you don't want to compete. And my take is arch played in a very small high school in Louisiana. I don't think he's ready. I don't, I don't think it, what would you tell it? Maybe your son, if he did it again or arch Manning, uh, when you do come from a dad you've obviously got some genetic advantages what would you tell Arch what do you see with Arch where are you with Arch and what do you tell.

Him Well, there's a lot to that. You know, first and foremost, I was kind of the father to stay away. And I would tell anybody that's the father of a quarterback, that's the worst thing you can do. Be involved, kind of, you know, from the outside and try to help your son who's going through difficult moments or no matter what, it's going to be tough at the University of Texas. Now, a lot of people said, I'm kind of going to go off on this thought. Oh, well, he'll probably transfer to another college and have a great year, then come into the pros.

And I said, wow, to me, that doesn't make sense.

He plays well, but then as the game gets going, he just tries to make too many plays. And, you know, just play a game where you say, I'm not going to turn it over. We might lose, but I'm not going to turn the football over. I did it in the pros, and it kind of settles you down where you can get back in the flow and play better.

But think about him if he goes to another college and plays. What's it going to be like? So constant attention. What's he doing now that he didn't do before and all that? So my, hey, look, I'm not talking for the Mannings or nothing. It's just the way I look at it. I would let him go on the draft. It might not go as high as he wants, but it doesn't matter. He's going to be taught differently. It's a whole different game in the pros, and it will take a lot of scrutiny, I think, away from him if he does come.

Out in the draft.

He's got a podcast on the Believe Network called Sims Complete. He's our friend Phil Sims, as always. It's absolutely great talking to you. The Giants are a legitimate team. That win in Houston, that's a big boy win. Houston needed to win that thing, and they controlled that game. Scataboo, I don't think he's going to last 20 years in this league. He's not going to last very long. I've never seen a guy, maybe Mike Allstott. I don't think I've ever seen a guy that runs like that.

No, he's special. He's got legs like Earl Campbell.

Can you imagine these secondary guys have to run in there full speed and hit that?

He's looking for you. He's running. Who can I hit?

But the Giants, I'll say this, they coached the game against Houston. I thought they, listen, really deep down, I said, I hope they just play well.

But they came out.

Firing on the offensive side right away with J.J., and now I just go, wow, of course. They did what's best for him. And on defense, they're not scared. They give you everything, Colin. They blitz you.

They play it all. And it's so much fun to watch.

And I think my biggest disappointment is that they're not going to play this weekend.

Man, they were hot. But, man, they are a fun watch.

And John Harbaugh, whatever you think, if you think it's not about coaching, we just talked about it, Colin, it's about coaching in the NFL.

And he's doing a terrific job.

Phil, it's always great seeing you.

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

You bet.

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