Seriously, What is Going On with Mitch McConnell (w. Clay Aiken)

0:06 Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote.

0:08 I'm Melissa Malbranch.

0:09 Today we're going to talk about all our unhinged microaggressions. We're going to talk about Mr. CJ, our producer, who had a baby. A baby! We're going to talk about how I'm a drunk DM celeb sometimes, and that's how we got our guest today. Clay Aiken is in the studio. Is Mitch McConnell a marionette yet? We're not sure. We're going to find out. So stick around.

0:30 Do you see the fire in the pines?

0:34 Yes, I do.

0:34 Are you devastated?

0:36 No, I've never been to the Fire Island.

0:37 You've never been to the Fire Island?

0:38 Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm devastated by a fire on the Fire Island.

0:41 I'm not gay and I've been to the Fire Island many times. I mean, it's been quite a while, but I mean, still, I felt bad. What?

0:49 I'm sorry, I'm not laughing about the fire. I'm just laughing. People are always like, so how was the pints this summer, Michael?

0:56 No, I have never said that to you. No, not you, but people.

0:59 Will say that. They're like, so you're in Provincetown, right?

1:04 No, because I feel like... I would know if you were going to P-Town.

1:08 It's like if someone was like, so, did you like In the Heights?

1:13 Why would I?

1:13 Exactly.

1:15 Okay, first of all, there are so many things I'll believe.

1:18 No, but like exactly. That's the point is that it's incorrect.

1:22 You're not. I'm not Dominican.

1:24 You're not Dominican or Puerto Rican.

1:26 Right.

1:26 I'm not from Washington Heights.

1:29 But if you were to say something else to me that is sort of like black-coated, I may or may not understand. Like, oh, Melissa, have you ever been to the Inkwell? No, I haven't. I haven't.

1:44 Let's get into a sidebar about microaggressions. What are some of the microaggressions people say to you? Because people say a lot to me.

1:51 Oh, people have said, wow, Melissa, you speak very well. No!

1:56 Say it once. It's really bad. It's horrible. I mean, yeah, that's a macroaggression.

2:05 I mean, it's like, you know what it is? It's one of those things that I think that people think is a compliment.

2:11 Right.

2:11 Right?

2:12 Right.

2:12 Like, I remember, oh, man. And this is like one of those, it's like a microaggression against fat people, right?

2:25 Okay.

2:25 So when I was overweight, somebody said to me, You moved very lightly. Like I was live, considering. Like the club-footed Contessa. I mean, it was.

2:37 A two-tonic club-footed.

2:38 And the thing is, it's like. Or one time I had a guy say to me.

2:46 Not a man. First of all, a man should never say anything to me. First of all, not a man speaking.

2:52 But I had a guy say to me. Oh, man.

2:57 In a moment. Sure. Post moment. Uh-huh.

3:01 That he had never been with a fat girl before.

3:03 Oh, no.

3:04 And I was.

3:05 Oh, no.

3:05 How was it for you?

3:06 And you were like, your trophy's in the mail. And, you know. What do you want from me?

3:11 And so that's the kind of thing that.

3:13 Yeah.

3:14 In my head.

3:15 Right.

3:15 I immediately want to say something really mean.

3:18 Right.

3:20 Like, I've never seen that small of a penis before. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's the kind of thing that you want to say, but that's not very nice.

3:27 Yeah, a short guy before. Yeah. Right.

3:29 You're the shortest man I've ever been with.

3:32 How's that for you? I love when, like, drunk bachelorettes ask me what their hair, like, what do I think of their hair? And I just say, I don't know, I'm bald. And I'm like. But I do. What's annoying is that I do have a lot of opinions about people's hair.

3:48 Well, you do. You do have a lot of opinions about people's.

3:50 Hair, which is really funny.

3:52 Which is really funny because I know that you do.

3:54 And I'll be like, did you see her hair? Melissa will be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look who got the Rachel. Or no, I know you've.

4:02 Said to me, you've said to me, she missed a spot with the flat iron.

4:09 Let me tell you something. That one chunk of hair in the back.

4:13 It's hard to see.

4:14 Celebrities, though. You know who I'm talking about. I'm going to bleep this out. She misses. And I've hung out with her a couple times. And there's always a fucking clump. And I'm like, that clump of hair is marching for its rights. Right. It is unionizing.

4:31 What it is, it's in protest of what's happening.

4:34 Yes. It's Norma Rae. It's ringing the bell. Union. Union.

4:42 Oh, so I have permission to say something.

4:46 Okay. Are you ready? I'm scared.

4:48 Don't be scared. Friends. Brief Recess has had its first baby.

4:54 Our producer, CJ. And it's neither of ours. It's neither of ours.

4:59 Our producer, CJ.

5:01 Oh, my God.

5:01 And his wife have welcomed a beautiful, bouncing baby, healthy boy. Mama and baby and dad are doing really well.

5:10 Yes.

5:11 And dad said the cutest thing.

5:13 Hold on.

5:14 I'm going to read it because I love it so much.

5:16 Well, we were texting the group chat. Yeah.

5:17 Yeah.

5:18 And he was like, oh, mom and baby are doing great. And I said, what about dad? Hello?

5:24 Baby and mom are healthy and happy and amazing. And Michael says, um, dad. And he said, thank you, Michael. I am great. So happy and filled with pure joy. Could you just... And Michael knows this more than anybody, but I love babies so much. And when I tell you, if I know you or don't know you and you have a baby... I'm genuinely interested in seeing a picture of your kid and hearing you talk about your kid.

5:52 And Michael knows that I am dead serious. And sometimes I feel like I say that to people and they think that I'm just being nice. I know.

5:57 They really do think that Melissa is just being nice.

6:01 I'm not.

6:02 And she actually gets mad at me when I hang out with a new parent and I didn't get a vote. I get so upset. She actually gets really mad at me.

6:10 What do they have? I don't know.

6:12 You don't know?

6:12 I don't know.

6:13 She really does. She gets really serious about it. And then I'm like, how much does the baby weigh? How tall is it?

6:18 How long is it? And Michael's like, you know what? Do you want me to introduce you to this person?

6:22 I'm like, can I just put you directly in touch with them? Because I don't know. I get so pissed off. Especially because you're childless. I'm not childless. Oh, I'm sorry.

6:31 I am child-free.

6:32 Child-free.

6:32 And there's a big difference. And there is a big difference. I think childless is somebody who is sort of sad about not having a child and being child-free is being okay with it.

6:43 Is having both legs in the air in the Caribbean. Like, on vacation, that's child-free.

6:48 And I have been– I've said this to you many times. I've been lucky enough to have people in my life, including my husband and his ex-wife, who have shared their.

6:57 Child with me. And nieces.

6:58 And I have tons of nieces. And, you know, I am obsessed with my nephew.

7:01 It's true. So, it doesn't feel like you're child-free.

7:05 It doesn't feel like that.

7:07 I've got, like, six neetos in my house. I'm not child-free. Like, I don't have kids.

7:11 Yes.

7:11 But I'm not child free. No, you're not. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I got all these kids everywhere. I can't swing my arm without knocking over one of my friend's fucking kids.

7:19 No.

7:19 And you do like Michael.

7:20 And I do.

7:20 And I love it. It is. Some of them.

7:23 Michael's holiday card last year was a picture of him and his husband, Brad.

7:28 Holding an Asian baby.

7:29 Holding a baby. And I was like.

7:31 Everyone thought we adopted.

7:32 Who is this kid?

7:33 It was my nephew.

7:34 It was your nephew.

7:34 It was my nephew. Who's half Vietnamese and he's so cute.

7:37 He's really, really cute. The other one is really cute, too.

7:40 Well, we did a full casting for the Christmas card. And he did come out. We only had room for one kid in the photo. And so the other one, we did let him down easy. We said, don't call us. We'll call you. And so Lincoln made the photo. But, you know.

7:59 Sophie's choice is not a problem for you. You would have been able to choose real easy. Yeah.

8:05 Opening sequence. What's the choice? This one. Roll the credits.

8:08 Don't care.

8:09 No.

8:10 Just throw a dart and hit a kid. Right between the eyes.

8:14 And so, we did only have one kid on the Christmas card this year. And everyone thought we adopted. And I didn't, you know, I didn't really. And you didn't correct anyone. I didn't correct anybody. I didn't explain on the Christmas card who that was.

8:27 I know.

8:27 I said, let's sow a little chaos. People are a little too bored out here on these streets. Some boring news cycle. Yeah. Oh, my God. Let's get into algorithm of showing about Mitch McConnell. This man.

8:41 At this point.

8:43 I know.

8:44 At this point.

8:44 Let's have him headline the Super Bowl. Well, let's have him.

8:48 You horrible, evil little man.

8:50 We might as well.

8:50 I am not somebody who likes this man at all, right? But this is the kind of thing that makes me wonder, why doesn't anybody love you?

9:02 Right? Right.

9:02 Who is taking care of you? What is happening in the home?

9:05 Baby, I'm 38. Brad's already like, it's time to retire. You're getting a little long in the tooth. Yeah, it's... Yeah, no one is like, let's... Can we keep him at home?

9:21 Keep him at home.

9:22 I mean, it's almost... It's giving elder abuse.

9:24 It is. It feels almost... cruel right and i and i don't understand.

9:29 I have no sympathy for him but i but i what is that bell i cut you off keep going did i cut you off we're ringing the bell every time i didn't even see that bell there that i haven't slept at all um yeah no but he he um no i'm just so distracted by the value bitch You bitch, what is the fucking bell? Every time I interrupt you. Keep going. I don't remember. I can't keep going.

10:04 What do you mean you don't remember? Roll the credits. Roll the commercial. Cut to commercial.

10:08 Brief recess.

10:11 Elder abuse. What's going on in the home?

10:14 It does feel, I mean, I don't know. I remember when Dianne Feinstein was also sort of on this downward spiral. I don't understand. I used to work for somebody. I used to work for two people. And one of my bosses was older and not doing well at all. Sometimes I would see him and he looked really confused. And my other boss said to me, she's like, you know what, Melissa?

10:39 Some people don't know when it's time to exit stage left.

10:43 Girl, get the hook.

10:45 And I don't know why people feel like they need to stay. He's 84 years old. Isn't he tired?

10:55 It's unbelievable. And it's also, did you see the video of him voting yes?

11:00 Yes.

11:01 He's voted so they're taking a vote. He says the wrong vote.

11:08 And then the other guy is just like, say yes.

11:10 And the handler is like behind him, like tapping him on the shoulder.

11:13 That's not right.

11:14 They're like, yo, yo, yo. No, no, no, no, no. You're supposed to– you're voted the wrong way. We're at the point where like he's got like a string on one arm with like yes or no and like the little sign. And we've got like the Walton family pulling– we've got– and then the other arm is the Koch brothers.

11:31 Like we've got– that's how they're deciding.

11:34 But no, I– you know, how many times– and I'm going to say this, but I'm kind of serious– Mitch McConnell has been reset many times. Just control-alt-delete and putting him back together again.

11:47 The factory reset.

11:50 And if you are somebody who is in that position and you are worried, say, about legacy, now when we think about you and your career, that's all we're going to remember is you sitting in that, whatever, the accessoride and looking like you are a marionette. It's not, I am not even kidding.

12:13 It's not funny, but the image was so insane.

12:16 I mean, and he's just like, look, I felt, I almost felt bad. Almost felt bad. Almost because he's a terrible person.

12:25 Do you think it's actually him? Paid actor. I'm serious. Like it's about, there's the internet theory is like my algorithm is all like, it takes three months to recover from facial reconstructive surgery.

12:36 Is that how long it's been since we've seen him?

12:38 People who are like, they got some guy and they fucking yanked his face back and made him look like Mitch McConnell.

12:46 Do you remember in Game of Thrones when Arya became... And she had all those faces. Arya of many faces. Maybe it's Arya.

12:53 What did I text you this week about Game of Thrones? I said, every time I feel like I'm failing, I just remember that finale of Game of Thrones.

13:00 Oh, you said about how somebody worked really hard on that. And I responded, no, they didn't.

13:08 That finale was chopped. It was chopped unk, as the kids say.

13:11 It was just really disappointing.

13:12 It was so bad.

13:14 It was so bad.

13:14 Coming in with a hot take 10 years later, Melissa and Michael, we didn't like the finale of Game of Thrones.

13:20 We didn't like the finale.

13:21 That was really crazy. Especially because we had, what was it, seven years of slow burn?

13:26 Well, I mean, I think what it is is also like it's. Especially for somebody like me, I am not that loyal of a television watcher. Like sometimes I'll just get tired of a show somewhere right before the end of it.

13:39 I stuck it out. And I was very patient. There was attrition. A lot of people.

13:45 And I was patient and I was hopeful.

13:48 And Melissa would come into work every day on Monday.

13:51 So mad.

13:52 She was. And she would have these theories. She'd be connecting the dots. You know what?

14:00 We got married on a Sunday. That was the first day of whatever season that was of Game of Thrones. And I apologized to our friends and family. I'm like, thank you so much for being here. And I know you must really love us to have missed Game of Thrones.

14:20 And people were like, yeah. Yeah.

14:23 Anyway.

14:24 Like a bridge over troubled water, I would like to get to our next segment with our special guest. Yes. Clay Aiken's in the studio.

14:33 He is in the studio.

14:34 So get ready for... I honestly have no idea what we're getting ready for.

14:39 We're just ready. Just get ready. I'm excited.

14:42 I'm excited too. Yeah. I haven't met him yet.

14:45 Nor have I.

14:46 I just DM people sometimes.

14:49 You know, Michael, I always say this.

14:51 Sometimes my alcohol... Intake? Ring the bell. I interrupted her again. Sometimes my alcohol intake leads to some great guests. Because I will be in the back of an Uber at 3 in the morning just DMing celebrities come on the show. And sometimes they answer. Okay, what were you going to say?

15:09 I don't remember, Michael.

15:10 Okay.

15:11 But I will say this.

15:12 I need a bell.

15:13 I have one for you.

15:14 Oh, okay.

15:15 I bought two.

15:15 Oh, okay. You bought two. Well, to be fair.

15:20 They came two in a box. I would have only bought one for myself, but since there were two.

15:26 Submit the receipt. To who? Exactly right. Is it a secret?

15:34 Did Georgia and Karen not know that we're submitting receipts?

15:36 We'll be right back. Welcome back to Brief Recess. Our guest today is the multi-talented singer-songwriter, actor, author, and father, Clay Aiken. He's written the best-selling memoir, He's performed on Broadway, ran for Congress, has been a UNICEF ambassador, and became a father. After nearly 20 years, Clay is making his return to music. His new album, Rewind, drops Friday, September 25th.

16:03 You can follow him on Instagram at Clay Aiken. Welcome to Brief Recess, Clay!

16:08 The only time I've ever been in trouble trouble, I was 16 and I had just gotten a job at the YMCA.

16:13 I was so happy.

16:14 And I was in the parking lot and I backed the car out. And as I backed the car out, somebody hit me. I backed out and they hit me. But, you know, I was still at fault because I was rushed.

16:21 But I didn't know.

16:22 I was 16 and I didn't want to get in trouble and lose my job. So it took me all the way to the seventh digit of my phone number to lie to the man. He was like, well, just give me your phone number and we'll work it out.

16:31 And I said, 8-4-A-1-C-6.

16:32 And instead of five, I said nine. And because I thought, well, maybe I can just blame it on him.

16:37 He wasn't listening.

16:38 You know what I mean? That night I get home. Well, I'm home that night.

16:42 We have dinner.

16:42 We're sitting at the dinner table and all of a sudden blue lights outside.

16:47 Is that true? Well, either way, cops show up in the driveway. I don't remember.

16:51 Yes, they did have the lights going. Blue lights in the driveway. The cops show up with the man. I mean, he had had.

16:57 I mean, I was 16. He was an idiot.

16:59 He was smart enough. Well, it's a big enough town for me. It was Raleigh. I mean, it's... They were real cops. And the guy had been smart enough to get the license plate number, right? So that I would not... Because he.

17:10 I guess he assumed I would lie to him. Sure. Because I was a teenager. What else do we do? Anyway, he... Well, I'm not done. So we get....

17:18 They go through this whole thing. And I love the fact that at the time the cops were like, I can see by the angle of the scratches that it was your fault. And I'm like, no, you can't. But I was, I was, I was shitting my pants.

17:30 Of course you are.

17:31 So I was scared to death. And I, you know, whatever. They put me in the back of the cop car.

17:36 No.

17:36 They tell me that it's a hit and run because I guess it legally is a hit and run. If you don't give your information, you leave. They said it's a hit and run. They put me in the back of the cop car and did that whole good cop, bad cop thing. My parents went inside, turned the lights off, and went to bed. And I found out later- That is quality parenting right there.

17:54 It is. Well, even better. That cops had already called.

17:57 They had called the house earlier that evening, told my mom what had gone on, what had happened.

18:01 We said, we think it's- And she said, come scare the shit out of me. She said, mess him up real good.

18:04 And they sat me in the back of that car and scared the living piss out of me.

18:09 You know what?

18:10 Right?

18:10 Clay Aiken's mom.

18:11 That is- That's why I'm such an outstanding citizen now, right? I actually- I kind of love that, right? I do, too.

18:17 It's like she wanted.

18:19 To teach you a lesson. Oh, she taught it.

18:21 And you have never forgot it.

18:23 And I've never broken any laws again.

18:25 I believe that.

18:26 Until today.

18:27 I believe that.

18:28 But, you know, I raised my kid the same way. He does not appreciate it in the way that I do.

18:32 Yeah. I mean, I didn't appreciate it then either. I was a little more afraid of him than he is of me.

18:36 Mm-hmm.

18:37 But I was tough. Are you.

18:41 Are you a stern parent or.

18:42 Are you a lean? You are. I'm a hard ass.

18:45 Really?

18:46 Yes.

18:46 I can give you a look right now that would make your hair look like his.

18:50 Yes. That's what happened to mine, actually. I stopped parenting, yeah. Really? We got away with nothing when we were kids. I mean, we did all sorts of stuff, but there were lots of strict rules when we were growing up.

19:04 I'll say this, and I've said this to my parents, is that... Because my parents were so strict and didn't want me to do anything.

19:15 Now you sound like a teenager. Wait, wait, wait. Didn't want me to do anything.

19:18 They didn't. No, I mean, they did not. It turned me into a liar. And I lied. Oh, my God.

19:26 So when I was in high school, I absolutely did. When I was a kid, I did too.

19:29 Yes. But that's, I mean, I was petrified of my step. I was literally a.

19:33 Redheaded stepchild and I was petrified of my stepfather. So I did lie about stuff too.

19:36 But. But I mean, I haven't in years. I really don't think I have.

19:45 But yes, I understand that sometimes stern parenting can lead kids to be afraid. I don't think mine is. I think he's probably, I probably should be afraid of him. He could kick my ass. But I don't think he's afraid of me in that way. He's a good, he really is a very good kid.

20:00 And he messed up his car. It wasn't his fault. We could all hit a nail. Sure.

20:04 But he wants it fixed this weekend because he wants to drive to Charlotte.

20:08 And I am busy. Yes, you are. And why are you busy, Clay Aiken? What's going on? Oh, look at this transition. We're really smooth here. I know, very good. We're really smooth with the transition.

20:18 So tell us all about your new Rewind.

20:23 What shall we talk about? It's like first album in 18 years.

20:27 I've been wondering about that.

20:29 And so, again, I think....

20:33 Time is so weird, right? It never– so, like, your child is 18 years old. I thought he was 10.

20:38 Well, COVID took at least three out for us, right?

20:41 Yes, 100%.

20:42 I definitely think that since COVID, what we know of time is skewed somehow. But– So it hasn't been 18 years.

20:51 Why now? What's going on? Because he wants me out of the house. Sure. So I'm like, okay, fine. I will see you when you graduate college. I'm going to go on tour.

20:57 Is he in college or is he in high school?

20:58 He's in high school.

20:59 He's in the same high school I went to.

21:01 He had my science teacher. No. Oh, my God. I love that. I know, but he doesn't appreciate it.

21:07 He will later.

21:08 I think so, too.

21:09 He will later. I say that to my husband about our daughter all the time is that she doesn't want to hang out with us now. which is completely normal. She's 25 years old. She doesn't want to do that. When I was 25, I didn't want to hang out with my parents. And now I just kind of like go over there and like sit around.

21:24 I just say, I say to him, I hope I'm not dead by the time you appreciate me.

21:29 There's no telling. Hey, I could kill us all within 10 years.

21:33 Apparently, it's about to.

21:34 Yeah, we got 10 years left. So make it, enjoy the time. So tell us about. Appreciate me fast. Yes.

21:41 No, that is though why I said, you know, I stepped away largely because I haven't recorded an original album in 18 years and I haven't toured in 15. So I stopped touring a little bit after he was born.

21:54 I did a little bit.

21:55 But when he was fit, when he got to around elementary school, I really didn't want to I recognized that I was very, very lucky to find someone who would have a kid with me, a gay man.

22:07 She was a single woman herself.

22:09 And I didn't want to miss out. I was like, I knew this is only going to happen once.

22:13 So I didn't want to be away. I didn't want to be on the road.

22:16 I spent so many years on the road after Idol that if I was touring, I was home like three months out of the year.

22:24 And I didn't want to be that way.

22:25 I was a teacher also. And I knew that I was going to be the strict one who was going to make you do your homework and like you're just going to be involved in all that stuff. So I stopped for that reason. And now it is honestly a large part of it. Well, a large part of it is I did. I'd moved into other things. We'll call it public service.

22:44 Really, it's just. Really, it was just insanity and nonsense.

22:48 But when I decided I was never going to help America again, never again.

22:55 After EIDL. After all that you had done. After all that you had done for reality television.

23:02 So, I mean, I ran for Congress twice. And I know you guys were like, they told us not to talk about that. I mean, because I hate it. I know you don't hate it, but I do. I just think that we're in a really.

23:13 sad time in general.

23:14 And I don't like, and I got really sick of it after I did it the last time and said, I don't have it. I don't hate enough to be good at this.

23:23 Well, I'll just say that like you are young and literally alive. So why would you want to be in Congress?

23:29 Right?

23:29 I'm not young, but I appreciate it. I'm young compared to them, right?

23:34 Young in comparison to what we saw this week.

23:37 Yeah. So we won't get into that. We won't.

23:39 But since you brought it up, I was just thinking about this and I was wondering and you can sort of.

23:44 It's okay. I can spin like nobody's business. No, no, no.

23:46 I just wonder. So... I have often thought about what kind of person wants to run for any office, right? Like I would not run for a PTA board president only because, or even like my condo board president, right? Like I would never do that only because it feels so often that you can't really please anybody, right? It feels very much like a thankless job. And even for our public servants, it feels like a thankless job sometimes.

24:13 And I wonder what the experience of running was like. Were you surprised at anything? Were you anything? Did anything make you feel good? Like, how was that for you?

24:25 Well, I ran knowing I was not going to win in 2014. I mean, I ran.

24:30 There was this thing that no one had ever heard of back in 2014 called gerrymandering, which I was very big on. It's sort of hot button now. And the district that I lived in had been very gerrymandered. And the person who was in the seat was not bad. I mean, not debate, not even acknowledging opponents didn't have to.

24:48 And I was like, OK, see if.

24:49 You can ignore me, bitch. And so it's so messy. That's exactly what I love.

24:56 She wasn't she wasn't debating opponents at all. And I just I kind of made a passing comment to a friend. You know, well, she she wins by less than X.

25:06 Yes. This next time, then maybe I'll run against her and see if she can avoid debating.

25:10 And that's what I did, and that's what I wanted to do, mostly to say, look, you can't just.

25:15 And you know what? She had to debate me.

25:17 She said, this Obama-Aitken economy is killing us all. She literally said that, and I was like, you're welcome. But she got made fun of, and she ended up losing her primary. She drew two primary opponents by December of the year that she won, and she lost her primary.

25:34 So you're welcome.

25:36 I knew I wasn't going to run, but I think the answer to your question is.

25:41 People who want to win. That's really what it is.

25:43 I think nowadays, and I say that for both sides, I'm not affiliated with either party now. I'm completely registered and unaffiliated in North Carolina because I grew up like loving West Wing, you know, or there were governors and senators when I was growing up who really did make education better and they changed lives for, you know, people, poor people, and they did great things. And I thought, this is a wonderful way to do things.

26:10 I was so stupid. I mean, really?

26:13 And it's not that way. I will say it was easier to run in a general election against someone who I had disagreements with on policy than it was to run in a primary where it's just about, let's see if we can be as nasty as we can possibly be to someone who really we agree with on things. And so I became very disheartened after that and said, you know what? No one that I can see in my world is really doing anything to help.

26:40 Right.

26:41 They just want to win. Right.

26:43 And I just got disgusted with it. And I said, you know what? I'm done with this. I think I have sacrificed enough of my ass to this shit for 10 years. And I only have one other marketable skill.

26:54 So I guess I got to sing. So I went out on the road with Ruben.

26:58 He was doing a 20th anniversary tour from our idol. He's like, well, you want to.

27:02 Come do it too?

27:03 And he's been so supportive when I was running both times. He did fundraisers for me and everything. And so he said, you want to come out and do it?

27:10 I was like, you know what?

27:11 He'd been telling me I should go back to singing, but he was supporting me anyway. I said, okay, I'll do it. And I had so much fun with it. And I realized, and this is going to sound really, really, really cheesy, but I looked out and thought, wow, these people are happy. And I thought doing the political thing could improve lives. And then I realized, well, I'll be damned.

27:32 I may not be able to lower their taxes or help their bottom line, but if this makes people happy for two hours, then I'm probably doing better that way.

27:41 I love that.

27:42 And I will say, I think that anybody who throws their hat in that kind of ring, there is a certain level of bravery associated with that.

27:51 There's bravery. Bravery, yes.

27:55 And maybe psychosis.

27:58 I don't know.

28:00 I think that there's a level, local levels, condo board if you want to. There are people who do things because they really have an issue that's very important to them. I really do believe that once you get to the congressional level and above, you're doing it because you want to win.

28:19 Yeah.

28:20 There's not– because honestly, there's not much that they can do. Even when they have power, they can't do shit on either side. So I think that there is a level of just wanting to be in power and in control.

28:32 And it just– it leads people. And it's so much about money. It's all about money.

28:36 I spend all day asking people for money.

28:39 And I'm like, this is ridiculous. Oh, it's stupid. It's stupid. It's just– it's not even– it's ridiculous.

28:45 And I think it's a– I think it's– I don't want to be like– I never would let my staff say broken system because I think it's a cliche. But we were allowed to say dumpster fire if we wanted to because that's what it is.

28:57 That's true.

28:59 While you were doing that, did you miss the entertainment part, like singing for people and doing what you do best?

29:06 Am I supposed to say yes to that?

29:07 You can say whatever you want.

29:08 I didn't. Okay. She's about to go on tour. But you know what? No, but will I say I didn't while I was away? No, I'm not going to spit it. I'm going to tell you the truth.

29:16 I told you when I went out on the road with Ruben for that 20th anniversary tour. I found that I loved it.

29:20 Yeah. And I did miss it.

29:21 I didn't miss it when I was away, out of sight, out of mind. But then I got an audience. Listen, I thought that there were going to be people who... And there were, they see a letter behind your name and they write you off. And I told myself, once I do this, I'm not going to be able to go back to singing. And I found out, and maybe it's because everybody's sick of that shit. Everybody's sick of politics.

29:43 So they were just happy to see anybody who was not gonna talk about it. And so I thought, Didn't miss it before.

29:51 But when I got out there, I was like, holy crap, I really do. And that's when I said, okay, I miss it.

29:56 This has been so much more enjoyable for me than any of that other crap ever could be. I'm doing something to make people happy in ways that I couldn't do before.

30:04 Sure.

30:05 And my kid wants me out of the house, so now's the time. It's the perfect confluence of events. I will say there is something really interesting about how, especially right now, in the entertainment industry or public figures... Just do whatever the fuck you want. Like the silos of reality TV, actor, musician, politician, they are all blended together in a great way and also an awful way many times, right?

30:31 We want experts to be in positions where their expertise is being put to good use. But I'd love to hear and see that you are choosing your own adventure when it comes to your career. Like you're like picking what works for you. This is what brings me joy. This is what I want to focus on at any given moment in your career. But I was going to say, when I was telling people that you were coming on the show, the number one thing everyone was like, you have to ask him about that freaking Christmas album. He eats it up every time that Christmas album, it plays in everyone's freaking house in America at Christmas. And I have to tell you, if you have a Christmas album that slaps, there's not like, There's only so many Christmas songs.

31:15 I know. And I've done them all. But if you get in the rotation, it's so great. Everyone was so excited about that Christmas. Well, I don't know. You may not even have any on your notes. I don't.

31:28 I haven't even looked at them. I always loved doing Christmas. And I did a Christmas tour for years and years. I think I did it every year for seven years before it stopped. And when I decided I was going to I don't want to do this again. I found a manager who I was thrilled to work with. And I said, I really just want to do Christmas at some point. And he said, well, what about we do Christmas in July somewhere? So we did a show in Vegas for Christmas in July, this past July. And we just got called by them a week and a half ago.

31:58 And I'm going to do a week in Vegas for Christmas this year.

32:00 Yes. I was going to say the biggest residency. First time I've ever done that.

32:04 Christmas is my jam.

32:08 So that sounded like an invitation. Yeah, come on. Sorry, that was, yeah. You're going to spend the holidays. I love it. Yeah. It's such a beautiful Christmas town, right?

32:17 I know.

32:18 A nice, clean, wholesome town.

32:19 It is now, y'all. A nice, clean, wholesome town.

32:22 Christmas in Vegas.

32:23 Yes.

32:23 No, it is now. It's going to be great. Yes. So I'm excited about that. That's really exciting. But I do love Christmas.

32:28 So tell all your friends, deck the halls, and then come out to Christmas.

32:31 You know, sensitive.

32:32 Yeah, because like you said, there aren't a whole lot.

32:34 There's not.

32:35 I mean, I feel like Mariah Carey wrote the one new Christmas song. You know what I mean? And it's not new anymore now.

32:40 We still love it. That's not the point.

32:42 But like everybody who does a Christmas album has to put their own little spin on it. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

32:50 I don't like to do that.

32:50 That's what I do. tried not to do. To just make it traditional. I mean, we use maybe a different instrument here. Yeah.

32:58 But I wanted to make, and I've done now two Christmas albums, well, two and a half, I did an EP too. And I said, let's not reinvent the wheel here.

33:07 You're right.

33:08 Everybody wants to do another All I Want for Christmas You. Kelly did, I think Kelly has had maybe the next, the only person in 20 years who's had a song That's almost, it's kind of.

33:18 Gotten to the level that we're on. An original.

33:20 Original Christmas song. It's very, very rare. Everybody's trying to do it. And they all do it in that same doo-wop.

33:30 But once you get, if you are that one every 20 years who manages to pull it off, baby, you can ride that wave. You're minted. Yes.

33:38 They make a million dollars a year. Both she and Walter Avanessi make a million dollars a year just off of that song. Just off All I Want For Christmas Is You. Between the royalties and the radio, because the songwriters, they make the radio for writing the song.

33:53 Million dollars a year. Every Macy's, every Kohl's, they're playing it every 60 seconds. And everybody wants to sing it live and people are covering it. Everybody loves to cover it, which is really a mistake because you're not going to do it like her. So let her do it. Let her cook.

34:08 You ain't never heard me record that. I ain't messing with it.

34:11 Do you perform it?

34:13 So true. We did.

34:14 Ruben and I did a show on Broadway, a Christmas show on Broadway in 2018. And everything, every part of that show was designed and devised by Ruben and I, except for the last number. The producer said, you have to do All I Want for Christmas is You.

34:30 And we were like, You were like, why are we going to do it?

34:34 But it's because it doesn't matter.

34:35 Yeah.

34:36 I don't care who sings it. That girl who sang the Friday song, she could sing it and the audience would stand up and sing along.

34:42 That's right.

34:42 She's doing something.

34:43 Rebecca Black. She's always doing something. Everybody loves that song. You do that thing where you go. You just sing part of the lyrics and then you go like this to the audience. Tell me. You sing. No, because he can't say we'll have to buy the rates for this show. I'm not singing nothing. I'm not singing nothing.

34:58 But it's a crowd pleaser and everybody wants to.

35:00 Yeah. It's that and Sweet Caroline. Yes.

35:03 You do those and the crowd loves you. You can literally crap.

35:06 On stage for a full hour and a half.

35:08 But if you sing All I Want for Christmas is You, they will leave with a smile on their face.

35:12 So we had to do that.

35:13 Totally random fact about Sweet Caroline is, so you know the part where everybody goes, so good, so good, so good. My husband did not know that people did that. And we were on like a party bus and people were doing that. And he was like, what's happening? And I felt like he was a stranger in that moment.

35:30 I was like, where?

35:31 Very disappointed in him. I was like, who are you that you don't know?

35:35 He was like, I've never. Who did I marry? How did you not?

35:37 Who did I marry?

35:38 How did you not know so good to good? And he was just like, I've never heard this before.

35:42 You should have given it to the DJ at the wedding. If you had done it, you could have solved that problem before it started.

35:48 I know. Who doesn't know that? I'm so in love with Clay. I'm sorry. I'm just going to say. It's been a very long day. I'm delirious. I'm really just so in love.

35:54 That walk took it out of you.

35:55 I'm so in love with you because I feel like we get so many people who are media trained, and I'm sure you've gone through so much media training. You don't give a fuck, girl. I don't. That's exactly what it was. I did some of the other night.

36:05 So I had to do this listening party. My management is up there nodding because I had to do this listening party last night for.

36:10 That new album. We let people hear it for the first time.

36:13 And the songs on the album are, and I'm going to be real cheesy, It is very personal because every other album I had, they.

36:21 Handed me the songs. They said, here's what you're going to sing.

36:23 And I, this is the first time I actually said, okay, here's.

36:27 What I want to say. I'm kind of older and mature now. I know a few things.

36:30 I'm going to, here's what I want to talk about. And so I got to really create them. But for the listening part of the idea was they're going to tell the stories of the songs. And then let people hear the album for the first time.

36:40 Yeah.

36:41 I don't know the lyrics to some of this shit. Because I recorded it. I recorded them. And then after we recorded them, we put them in the can. I mean, they're great.

36:51 And I will.

36:53 Yeah, I'll probably know them by the time we do tour. Yeah. But I don't know them now. So we recorded them. We did them.

36:59 And then last night, they gave me the list of songs. And we're going to talk to this room full of some people.

37:04 Oh, my God.

37:05 And I had to tell stories.

37:06 And I was like, Make it up. I was pulling it out of my ass. Damp.

37:11 I mean, I knew the songs, but I would, we'd start, I'd tell the little story and then we'd play it. And then I'd go sit down and listen while I, and I was, I was like, oh damn, if I had remembered this was a lyric, I could have said such and such because I didn't remember anything. And somebody said to me afterwards, like, God, you really know how to work a room. And I was like, cause I don't give a shit.

37:29 You don't give a shit. And it's so refreshing. I'm just gonna do it. Before we were going to talk to you, I was just looking at videos. I went on TikTok, went on Instagram. I was like, let me just search Clay Aiken and see what comes up. There are so many clips of you just in interviews saying things that I'm like, I know he got a publicist.

37:51 That's why I have to have chaperones. I know. I was like, I know we got a call from a publicist after this clip. But, I mean.

37:58 There comes a point in one's life, right?

38:02 When you stop caring.

38:04 But you have to. It's like almost a matter of survival. Do you know what I mean? And I say this all the time to people. Like, I feel like I stop every year. Taraji P. Henson, who we love, she was being interviewed and she said that her feeling is that we are all born with a certain amount of fucks to give. And as you get older, you lose them.

38:28 I'm out.

38:29 Right. And so by the time... you're like in your forties, I don't give a shit. Like I am going to tell you what I think. And if you can either accept it or not, either way, I am going to stand in my truth. Like, because really, I.

38:42 Don't know what that part meant, but standing my truth.

38:46 But standing your truth. Like, I'm going to tell you what I think. And I don't care if you like it or not.

38:50 That's what I mean.

38:50 Well, I think, I think if I'm being, let's, is there an account for me to lie on here?

38:56 So I spent several years, a few years. I didn't know. I was, I mean, Let's all take a breath. He's going to say it. I'm going to say it. You're gay. I didn't know I was gay until I was on it. Right.

39:07 I know you all knew before me, but I tell people I came out, America knew before I did, but I didn't, I did not quite like, I didn't know what it meant growing up in North Carolina. I'd heard the word. I didn't quite know what it meant. And I was like, I know I'm not, I mean, I know I'm nobody's lumberjack or anything, you know what I mean?

39:22 And so it wasn't until I got to LA and I met pokes. And then I, so I kind of had to figure it out in the world.

39:28 Right.

39:28 And, and, never wanted to lie and say I wasn't because by the time I was being interviewed, I knew I was, but I hadn't told my mother.

39:36 I mean, I hadn't figured it all out. So I was trying.

39:38 So I spent many years doing press. always knowing the question was going to come and always being ready for it. And I am a master of, you can ask me any way you want to, and I know how to answer you without telling you a lie.

39:52 And also not telling you the truth. Well, you're a lawyer, you know. So I did that for a while.

40:00 And then not too many years after I came out, I was somehow all of a sudden running for office and needing to know how to be prepared in an interview to answer a question. And when I finished it, the first campaign I did, I won't say mistakenly, I just let them do it.

40:20 I didn't care. Some people followed and did a documentary about my first campaign. And I've only.

40:25 Watched 75% of it because I got so uncomfortable.

40:29 They did a really good job. It was very raw.

40:31 And I ran during the period when same-sex marriage had been banned in every state, but the Fourth Circuit had overturned it right away. while I was running in a very redder than this district.

40:47 And I just knew, I.

40:49 Was like, son of a bitch, of course these people are going to screw this up and make this campaign about something it's not about. And I did a debate with the opponent because that bitch couldn't hide from me. But I did a debate with her.

41:04 And of course the question was, you know, the fourth circuit has overturned it. How do you feel?

41:09 And I I'm embarrassed to even say it now, but it's on camera, so I have to. I answered some sort of milky ass, well, you know, the Supreme Court has not weighed in yet. And of course, we need to wait and see what the Supreme Court says. And then we'll discuss it then. I mean, I did some sort of crap. And watching it back, I just felt sick to my stomach. And I thought to myself, wait a second, who was I saying? The people who don't like the gays, what are they going to be like? Oh, well, I'll vote for him.

41:42 They weren't going to do that.

41:43 And the people who needed me to say, they couldn't have been happy, right?

41:48 Yeah.

41:49 Like, who was I? And I watched that and it was honest to God then. I mean, I had finished running.

41:53 It was all over. Yeah.

41:55 I'd come in second, which I'm very good at. And I knew that it was, I was not going to, I didn't think I was going to do it. And I watched and I thought, God, I didn't. I don't ever want to be like that. And now when I watch other people answer questions, I get real pissed at them for not just being that way. And I told myself then, I'll probably get in more trouble for telling the truth, but I just don't ever want to be scripted.

42:22 I always say that. The only person that you have to impress is the only thing you have to do that, like when I wake up in the morning and I decide what I'm going to do or focus my attention or put my energy towards, is I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror that night and be happy with the choices I made or where I put my energy.

42:44 Now, now.

42:44 But I want to be able to feel like, okay, I did right by me and I made myself proud and that's who I'm here for. I don't want to look in the mirror and be like, you fucking sold out, kid. Or look at myself and be like, You didn't take a stand on that thing or, you know, you didn't or whatever. You threw your friend under the bus or whatever it was that day that came up. I'm just like, be good with yourself when you get home tonight.

43:13 Listen, I don't think that I, when I watch back and I feel like I didn't, I understand what my goal was.

43:18 It was a larger goal. It was a bigger. And hindsight's 20-20. But you also, I mean, I guess my point is I spent.

43:26 I certainly didn't grow up in the public eye because I was 24 when I did Idol. I was not young by any stretch.

43:32 What? I mean, listen. You weren't like a child. I wasn't a kid.

43:35 Listen, you look at the pop stars who like the Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears.

43:39 I mean, they were teenagers. Right, I know. But 24. Ruben and I are probably the, I think Taylor Hicks is older than Ruben. But I think other than that, he's the oldest winner. Wow.

43:51 And we're the same age. And yeah, so whenever we're around other idle people, we feel ancient. You can hear our knees as we're walking. And I, so I didn't grow up in it, but I grew into myself in it.

44:09 And it's weird to think we are now, I.

44:12 Need to do the math, but I hate it. So it's a, we're right around the next few months. Ruben and I talked the other day, he just had a birthday that we are, Almost to the point where we've lived more of our life after Idle than we did before.

44:27 Wow.

44:27 And so we are, you know, like, I don't have a choice. I don't get to stop being me.

44:34 Yeah.

44:35 So I just need to stop. It becomes somewhat exhausting to try to be very careful with your words.

44:41 It's going to get me in trouble. I promise you. But also, you were baptized by fire at 24 in early 2000s reality TV. Yeah. What a world that was. I mean, just looking back on general reality TV pre, I would say 2010 was like an ethical nightmare. Are we about to get in an argument? What do you mean? I mean, the way the media treated reality TV back then versus now, the things we were having reality stars do back, not back then, but like at the time.

45:12 We're having people eat bugs and animals and shit. Don't you know they signed up for it? I mean, I know.

45:18 Listen, I agree with you. Listen, I've just recently gone back and watched a few of the episodes of Idol because you can't find it anywhere.

45:26 But I got some. Holy shit. The things Simon said to me were just fucking mean.

45:31 I was talking to somebody about that. He was, you know, I so I was not a huge Idol watcher. But mostly because– I'm sorry. Let me just tell you why. Mostly because– I watched. Mostly because the beginning of it was hard when they had the people who really couldn't sing. And then they would go there sort of.

45:52 And I felt like– Who's that for?

45:55 Well, right. They were putting people out there in order to humiliate them for the laughs, right? And then Simon was really mean to people. And it made me very uncomfortable. So I would never– I would only get into it when it was like the top 10 people who really could sing and had a chance. And so by then, I was not as invested as other people who had been watching it from the beginning were. Do you know what I mean? That's what it was. And I just, I hated that. I don't like to see people be dragged and be humiliated that way. That's why I didn't like it.

46:29 There was a period, I think, in the first seasons, one, two, three, where I didn't mind it. Because a lot of people showed up with a little more confidence than they needed. And there were later seasons when people were, I think they probably, and they've stopped doing it, obviously. they ran out of people who had too much confidence and they started ending up with a lot of people who really probably had either a disability or were vulnerable. And that's when it became very uncomfortable for me and I did not like that.

47:03 But in the beginning, I stood in line with a few people who needed some truth.

47:08 Yes.

47:08 And those folks, I was fine with seeing cut down a bit because they.

47:13 Walked in thinking their shit did not stink.

47:15 Right, right, right.

47:16 But I understand what you're saying because there was a time, I mean, I went back and I went back and guest judged for some things and they wanted, because I don't, I'll say what I think and I thought I'll be honest and there are a lot of people who came in, the people with too much confidence realized they should stay their ass at home because they're going to get made fun of and the people who were showing up tended to be folks who had neurodivergent people. And I was like, well, I'm definitely not going to criticize them. And for that reason, Idol has gotten a lot softer. But I will say, I went back, I saw some of the things he said to me, and I was like, damn, I must be repressing some stuff. I don't remember some of these really,

47:56 really mean things. But I didn't go in blind.

48:02 I knew what he was like. I knew that it was going to be rough. And, and we also knew that he was not a mean person and he was doing stuff for TV. Right.

48:11 And we all held our breath right before he spoke, but we knew his, his, he carried weight.

48:17 Yes.

48:18 And I, I know that there's, I mean, there has been a reckoning right in the last, especially the last few years of, of early 2000 stuff. And I do think, yeah, a lot of people, we, we want, I wanted to be on TV. Yeah.

48:30 Right.

48:31 And, I don't think Idol was as harsh as maybe some other things were, but it was the avenue that we had to. We didn't have Instagram. There's a lot of other ways to go now. And that's probably why a lot of these shows had to soften. Because if I can become famous on Instagram, I'm not going to go and let somebody be nasty to me. So they have to soften up. But back then, that was the path.

48:55 And if you.

48:56 If you wanted to marry a millionaire, then you had to go on Joe Millionaire and find out that he, well, you got, right? And if you wanted to be a model, you were going to go this direction on top model. And I don't think anybody, listen, TV was harsh back then. But most folks, in my opinion, traded the, vulnerability of being in front of Simon Cowell for the possibility of being Kelly Clarkson.

49:26 Right? Yeah.

49:27 And so I would not have too much sympathy for anyone who I heard from Idol, at least.

49:32 Well, not in The Apprentice, and I have sympathy for you.

49:35 But I....

49:37 If someone from Idol came and got upset today about how mean Simon Cowell was to them, it would fall on deaf ears for me because I would say, you knew what it was and you wanted this bad enough that you were willing to. No one surprised you. But also, as I mentioned earlier, I'm a hard ass.

49:57 I love this so much. So please plug. What would you like to plug? Just plug your album. This is all I came for.

50:06 Hold on.

50:06 Yeah. That's your camera.

50:08 That's your camera. That's right.

50:12 Listen, I've come back to do something that, like I said, only marketable talent. And I think I do okay on it. But it is also the album that I am probably most proud of because I really was involved in it. And And we talked about the Christmas. I mean, it's been a pretty big week. My feet are very sore right now.

50:29 From walking all over New York City and promoting stuff and doing it in this entirely new world. No Instagram last time I did an album. No Spotify. No iHeartRadio app. None of that existed. And so I'm.

50:45 Having to learn a whole new world.

50:48 And I mean, I suck at it. I mean, no, you're doing great. I don't think I've ever mentioned the iHeartRadio app. I think you just made I heart very happy. Oh, well listen, I know how to do this. Text the number on the screen if you wanna vote for Clay. I am a professional. I disagree.

51:05 I may sound like I'm not scripted, but I hit my talking points, dammit.

51:09 I'm gonna disagree with you and say that I think you do this very well because I have been following you on social media.

51:16 But I don't do it.

51:18 What do you mean?

51:19 I have youngins.

51:21 Okay.

51:21 I have young kids who are half my age who are just phenomenal. And they've done such a wonderful job of saying, stand here, do this or this or whatever with your hands, say this, lip sync this.

51:33 And I go. Okay, fine.

51:35 And I say it, and they post it and edit it, and it's brilliant.

51:39 But it's you, though. It's you are doing it. Maybe somebody else is producing it for you.

51:44 Only because I have not figured out how to get AI to do it.

51:46 You're the talent baby. You're the talent baby.

51:49 The minute I can figure out how to chat GPT all this, I'm out.

51:53 We've got to get you on Traders. We've got to get you in that castle.

51:55 God, you know what? I think I've done enough competing.

52:00 Agreed.

52:01 And losing. I'm not a competitive person, which is crazy. I really am not.

52:06 I did Idol because someone nagged me into doing it. I did do Apprentice because, I mean, I got asked to do Dancing with the Stars.

52:14 I've been asked to do all these things.

52:16 And I did Apprentice, one, because you were talking about doing random stuff, like choosing your own adventure. And I like to do things that let people see me in a way that they didn't expect. And I was like, oh, I'm smarter than all these people, so I'm going to do Apprentice. And so I did it because I thought I'd do well at it. I don't know if I'd want to do traders because I feel like I would probably be too good at it.

52:38 And then people wouldn't think I was nice anymore. Fuck, Clay. That's the craziest reason to not do it. Because you would just tear people up. Just eat them up. I think people would find out how much of a little shit I am. Yeah.

52:56 I think I love you more.

52:57 Than ever now. Yeah, I think that would be the reason why everyone would love and watch. No, but I don't want people to know the truth.

53:08 But you're saying it right now. Do you know what I mean?

53:11 I know, but everybody's listening thinking... He's probably joking a little. He's secretly really nice.

53:17 And then they see you tear someone apart and shred.

53:21 I got asked to do Celebrity Big Brother also. And I will say that's one of the few that I watch. I really am not a competitive person.

53:27 I'm not.

53:27 I mean, I'm best friends with the guy who beat me.

53:30 I am.

53:32 Very good friends with Arsenio Hall, who beat me. And I'm starting a podcast with that bitch that beat me for Congress.

53:39 So, I mean, I'm kidding.

53:40 I'm not. Oh, I was like, wow!

53:43 That would be incredible! I was saying, like, where is the podcast? Do you think you're better than the podcasters of the world? Like, where's the podcast? We need a podcast from you. No, you don't. No, you don't.

53:54 No, if I had my own podcast, I wouldn't come share my joy with everybody else.

53:57 Oh, thanks. I wouldn't be able to. I'd have to save it all for mine. I wouldn't be able to go on your show. I couldn't share it.

54:03 I just, I feel like, I feel like competitions for me, I've done enough of them.

54:08 Agreed. But, but I'm going to try to watch. Okay.

54:12 I'm going to try to watch and I'm going to wish you very, I mean, obviously know how the sausage is made. You obviously know what's happening and he's an attorney, so he knows he can't say a thing. So I wish you, I wish you incredible luck. Hopefully you were there the whole time.

54:24 People are asking, people ask me for photos. I said, do you want like a devious face or a smile? When we stop for selfies. Because Traitors is all about, you know, the secret villainous. Oh, right.

54:34 I did well on Apprentice because I was able to fly under the radar. And I knew how to play the game that you have to be a little.

54:44 I knew how to screw people over. Did people underestimate you?

54:47 Oh, hell yes. Thy entire life has been based on underestimation and being able to overcome it. I can see that.

54:53 That's a superpower. Superpower.

54:55 It is.

54:55 I walk into court and people are like, here's the little gay boy coming in to argue the case. And then I eat him for fucking lunch. Hello.

55:02 Right. But see, that's the other reason I don't know if I would want to do it. Because if I did very well on it, then it'd all be over for me. Everything would be over for me.

55:11 Do you think the illusion would be gone?

55:14 Of underestimating.

55:16 Well, I think that people, when they think of you, the voice, and sort of you.

55:22 Seem very- Right. Which is what I did for Simon Cowell.

55:26 Yeah. Right.

55:26 Yeah.

55:28 And you seem very approachable, right? So I wonder if you- Clay. But, no.

55:34 My manager is over here biting on a beta blocker.

55:39 You know, then the illusion would be gone, right? Like, oh, Clay actually isn't that approachable.

55:42 He's actually- I hope I am. I think I am. I think I'm too approachable sometimes. Oh, my God.

55:49 But I think people think I'm stupid. You may not because you're smart.

55:54 We know you. And you've been here. You've known me for five minutes and you're like, this motherfucker.

55:58 But I do think people think I'm a little bit more naive. I'm stuck at 24 with a lot of people. 40 million people watch that show. You know, you can't see my season of Idol anywhere. It doesn't exist. From the time the show was over, you can't find it.

56:13 Why is that? Do we think?

56:15 Well, because the internet didn't exist back then. One, YouTube wasn't a thing when I was on Idol. And two, it's licensing.

56:22 You can't find it.

56:22 So the music, they don't do repeats. They did a weird little repeats thing in syndication for a little bit one time, but it's not on YouTube. You can find individual performances here, but you can't find the show anywhere. You also can't find The Apprentice anywhere.

56:37 Wow.

56:37 For many reasons. Yes, for many reasons.

56:39 But it's crazy that no one, like, It's crazy to me that people still even know my name 23 years later. It's not like Friends or 30 Rock. You can go back and watch repeats of it. And it's always existing somewhere. The show was so big, so enormous that season. I think our finale was still the highest rated episode of it ever. And it was so big that there's never going to be a TV audience that big again. And for that reason, I am frozen at 24 for a lot of people.

57:12 Wow.

57:12 That image is frozen in people's minds. And so that's very difficult to overcome. I'm not complaining about it because if I hadn't been on the show when I was on it, then I wouldn't be here today, all that. But a lot of, I had a, so I had to get my wisdom teeth taken out a few years ago and.

57:33 The dentist left one in. There's a reason.

57:35 I mean, he had something else he was worried about and he finally got past that and he was like, phew, and he forgot to take the other one out.

57:41 No.

57:42 Yeah, he forgot to take the other one out and I went home completely drugged up and blah, blah, blah. When I was coming to.

57:49 My tongue, I was like, oh, damn it. My tooth is still there.

57:53 And I called the dentist or I had my assistant call and they argued with her and said, no, he didn't do that. And I called back, got on the phone. I said, I need to talk to the dentist. And First, he said, well, that's not true.

58:05 I did take it out.

58:05 And then he changed his story on the phone with me and said, well, I told Cheryl that I didn't take it out and we'd have to come back and finish it. And I said, well, hold this on. And I got upset with him. And he said, excuse me, how would your mother feel if she heard you talking to me like that?

58:21 I said, motherfucker, I'm 45 years old. What do you mean? Why don't we talk about my mother? I don't give a shit. Yes. I am 45. I am 45. Ask me, yeah. What will my mother say? Did she drive me to the appointment? Exactly.

58:33 But it reminded me that to so many people, I'm 24.

58:37 Yeah.

58:39 And they see me as that little kid. And how would your mother feel?

58:43 I mean, the audacity.

58:44 Well, she'd probably slap your ass herself.

58:50 Anything final you want to plug about dates or anywhere to get tickets? Where can people get tickets? Oh, right. The album comes out tomorrow. My first album. Wow.

58:58 And then I've got the residency in Vegas, my first residency in Vegas for Christmas.

59:04 Hallelujah. Get in the warm weather. And then I am doing a tour for my first album. solo tour in 12 years. Yeah, it's been a minute. I don't know.

59:14 I've done a few tours with Ruben, but I am going to hit the road and have all the responsibility on myself.

59:20 That's really exciting, Clay.

59:21 Are you excited?

59:21 Yes, it is.

59:22 It is exciting. I am excited. I'm excited to be back. I'm a little apprehensive, right?

59:27 Sure.

59:27 Because, you know, I don't know if they want this old man anymore, but they do. They do. They do. Get your tickets now. And so, yeah, you can get them at clayakin.com. All right.

59:35 Thank you.

59:35 Thank you for joining us. Thank you for coming. This has been an Exactly Right production recorded at iHeart Studios, hosted by me, Michael Foote.

59:45 And me, Melissa Malbranch. Our producer is CJ Ferroni.

59:48 This episode is edited by Mark Schroeder.

59:51 Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is Patrick Kottner.

59:55 Our theme song was composed by Tom Breifogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue and Vanessa Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono.

1:00:02 Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, and Danielle Kramer.

1:00:07 You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foote.

1:00:12 And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.

1:00:15 Got legal questions? Reach out at briefrecess at exactlyrightmedia.com. Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, we're a podcast with video. Search for Brief Recess on YouTube.