Episode 6: By the Time You Get This Letter

Pushkin previously on Death of an Artist.

As much pain and anger that I have towards her, I mean, she's still my mom. She's the only real parent that I've ever had in my life, and that's gone now.

Her most famous books are the series the Lotti Books. It's about a chicken named Lottie and her best friend Herbie. Oysterville, where all these books take place, is a real place, actually.

No Oysterville is the place where they ended up being buried.

Petron Michael, We're not her.

We went out there and there was a stone and they were like standing so proud of it, and there was a question marked there and I said, what does that mean?

And he would be like huge hrug, like you tell.

Me episode six by the time you get this letter.

Yeah, I'm Maria. When Aunt Mattie got her wings by patro Mathers, Herbie said, Lottie City Hospital just called Aunt Mattie's getting very weak. How come Aunt Mattie's sick, Lottie, she isn't sick. She's ninety nine years old. Aunt Mattie looked tiny in the big hospital bed. Her breath was heavy, and whistled a little Lottie, you're here.

We don't have much time.

They're expecting me upstairs, but I told them I was waiting for you.

They know I'm ready. Now I can see at the gate crying. Yeah, Lottie's crying. When the team from the funeral home picked up Aunt Mattie, Lotty and Herbie went to stay at Aunt Mattie's apartment upstairs, a letter was waiting for them.

Dear Lottie and Herbie.

By the time you read this, I will be dead, and I imagine you're feeling a little down in the beak. That's why I'm writing this letter. I've had a long and happy life, doing what I loved best. Sometimes I'm dreamed of getting on a plane to see the world, but then I thought of you and got on a bus to Oysterville instead. Now it's time to make room for someone else on this earth. I've arranged to be cremated, so you can take my ashes home with you and scatter them between Oysterville and Pudding Rock. They are always be near you, mixed with the sand and sea. Lots of love, always, your Aunt Mattie.

My letter was a gift to me in some ways. Some people received letters that were like we're dead.

Now when you get this letter, We're dead.

My letter was like Michael and I have moved to a no maintenance garden, and then just went on to talk about like my craft and like how it was one of the biggest choice of her life to be around.

That kind of garden making.

Hi, I'm Jessica Schlife, I'm a hand tool gardener. We are walking in to the Mathers garden through a small grove of paper white birches. This is all like evergreen huckleberry. I moved all these ferns over here. We created a terrace system in the here with pieces of wood and planted all these vine maples, which are also native. Michael really wanted to just keep things wild around the edges.

He was so afraid of opening up the views. Sometimes.

How old were you when you first met them, maybe thirty, like late twenties.

You just can't help but I can't help it, but sweed.

They were so inspiring to me in so many ways, like both their relationship, how they conducted their lives, the type of routines that they had, and I don't know, there was something so like story book about the way that they're like what they surrounded themselves with how they were meal planning and prepping, and I don't know, it just always looked so like, oh, that's so sweet, like they're working on that together, like the life thing.

They're working on that together.

I think people hear the word suicide, and I actually haven't liked to use that word, like I want something a bit different or better.

This was not a desperate move.

This was in some ways a very like curated like continuation of a story.

And do you think that the sort of operative motive was fear based? Was it an urge to protect something, preserve something, avoid something.

I will say their shirts were always pressed, and I can imagine that it was really hard for one or both of them to think about not having the capabilities to do all the things that they had done themselves. And in the same way, I mean, we're talking spray starch like all the time perfect.

And also there was probably a part of it that they were just.

Like, dang, we've had a good run, like that was a good run.

Let's go out here, like let's.

Make it a show.

Let's make it a show.

Do you remember when the flag went up?

Yeah, that was in the last.

Like it was in the fall, maybe before the February, because I was in the garden and Michael comes home in his big car, and then he put up this giant bamboo flagpole.

And on the top of it was a.

Banner style orange flag with a question mark on it.

And I was like, oh, that's cool. Did you have that maid? And he was like, I did, I had it made at the sale shop.

I just looked at it, and I just kept staring at it, and the three of us were just standing around in the driveway together, and then I was like, I like it.

It's like the Great Mystery.

And then Petro was like, that's exactly it, Michael, that is exactly.

The Great Mystery.

And I remember them exchanging a glance, and I felt very like, Oh, I got it.

Do you think it's a reference to like the great mystery of what happens after you die? Or the great mystery of why did they do this?

No? No, no, Actually that's great. That's a great that's another way to look at it too.

I felt like it was like the great mystery, like what what?

What? What are we? Or what's there once we die? Once we're gone?

What do you think.

They're all around us? Like that's the way that I think about death. You know that the people are there all around us, and the birds or the trees or I love thinking about things composting. Were they were they cremated? I figured they were probably cream madd.

I was gonna ask what's better for a garden?

Oh?

Like dig a hole. That's the way I'd like to go. Just get composted like the natural car.

But yeah, exactly, Karen's gonna just like be pushing a shout, putting the ground.

Karen, will you share with us how you think about your death?

Yeah, I've got the ticket. I have terminal cancer and.

I'm on hospice, and I already have a prescription on file in the pharmacy in Portland to do physician assisted suicide. I don't want to wait till till it gets really awful. Maybe cowardice, I don't know. But everybody I know knows that I don't want any more treatment and that I'm at peace with my decision, and my friends all support that.

My name is Karen Temple, and I have known Petra since my quite early days in Oregon, and people knew of both of us and were interested in getting us together. People always think Germans will love each other so just because they're German. But what brought us together is a real strong physical liking. For one, I was really in love with pet I loved her voice and her sense of humor, and we could talk and quote books and literature.

I moved to the farm here in Astoria in seventy four, and she and David Until came and visited me and my husband at the time, and Till remembered, which I didn't that way, actually went crawdad fishing because I lived by a creek.

When you think back to when Petra and David Until would come visit, can you understand how it came to be that Petro left Till behind.

It's really hard to imagine. She told me she was Lieba skunk, love sick like a disease.

She was love sick. She couldn't help herself.

Petro was rather shy, really, and I know Michael on his own was extremely sociable. You know, you could be really charming and personable.

Did you experience this charmingness?

Not really, No, okay, I saw him as a little bit my Fistophelian.

He had these really weird eyes.

They were pen trading they were sparkling. They were a little bit disturbing. Yeah, I never seemed to be saying the right thing in his presence.

I will just not hit the right tone or something.

So it was just not that easy going with him, and I feel.

He made it hard for us to be close anymore.

I was disturbed by it, and I missed her. The last time I saw him, actually was I was parking by the post office box, which is opposite from the liquor store, and he was coming out of the liquor store and he looked at me and greeted me, and he said, are you mailing or drinking?

And I said, both liquor stores next.

And there had been no communication with Petro either for a long time. And I then told him that my cancer had come back, and that initiated a sort of rapprochement. When she visited me a few more times. She told me then that they would they would commit suicide together, and well, I'm going to commit suicide eventually. I didn't take it as a warning of something immediate, but it was very much on her mind, and so I listened, and she said that they had always wanted that that they would leave the world together from the very very beginning, which is the kind of thing that young people do.

Or say, or say anyway.

So I listened to it, and we talked about ways of ending life, and I had researched some because I was already a cancer patient for quite a few years. And then they did it. I secretly had hoped over the years that he would die first and then I would get her back.

Nasty to say, but I did. It crossed my mind that didn't happen.

But also I have a little bit of envy.

I mean, who doesn't want a wonderful love story like that? And also they passed that threshold that's still ahead of.

Me, so I'm going to have to drink this awful stuff that they give you from the end of life medication not as nice, although the nitrogen part isn't all that great.

When you think you have a plastic bag over your head.

That's I wouldn't like that.

That's the thing.

I don't want to know all the fucking details. I'm sorry for the language, like, I don't want to know the I mean, I do, you know what I mean? But I didn't need to know, like serious details about exactly what happened. You know, because there obviously was like a joyous thing about it. I pictured this like ending that was kind of like in one of Patriot's books where you know, Michael had one of those caps on with the little tassle and like they were in beautiful robes and they were having a really nice little whiskey or scotch or something, and you know, like I love like the veil or the mystery or the story that they were writing or how they were framing it in their own way through these letters, and I thought it

was really beautiful that they took the time to do that. Yeah, like how long did they work on that project? You know, like how many years during their relationship was that like something that they visited and then maybe it felt creative for them, like maybe it felt mysterious and kind of like exciting or curious, or that they would touch back into it and be like, oh, so where will the house go or what will happen?

Then?

Will we let know? Or yeah, I don't know. Sometimes I think about it and I'm.

Like, damn, that is like oh me easing, Dear Nick.

I know you have retired, but you're still the one exclamation point, My first American girlfriend. I'm so lucky to have had you.

We've drifted in and out of each other's lives, so lucky for me we met up again.

I've really enjoyed our conversations immentually these past few years.

You're my most significant, dearest, longest friends. Many turns and directions were based upon knowing you.

I have never regretted my decision, only the amount of unhappiness had caused you. Thank you for all your support. Patty Flynn is now inner of the house and we keep paying the bills. I hope you're treat her as kind as you've treated us. You seem to be doing fine. We wish you the best for the rest of your life.

I'll always be near you, mixed in with sand and see. Thank you for everything. We wish you the best there is and are grateful for your care.

See you sometimes somewhere gets Uma Fia speed us in insides via haben Ghileptu ghileipt.

You have made such a difference.

Nick.

Love to you, Petra, big.

Hog to all of you.

Love, Michael and Petro.

Thank you for everything and sending much love Petro and Michael.

I wish you the very best. Mike, Love Petro and Michael Best Michael, Michael.

Love Mommy.

I think they just sat down and giggled and laughed and said, oh, lit'sten Wunda Marsha at the paramount.

That'll give him something to think about.

Oh, let's say, well, and we really should tell our friends so and so. I don't think there was a whole lot.

Of logic to it.

But to know that you wouldn't flinch at the last minute, and you've sent out whatever forty letters, how do you know you're not going to change your mind?

They know?

I mean that to me is incredible.

I'm Barbara Hansel.

I first met Patro.

In nineteen seventy four to Thanksgiving dinner with car and Temple, and probably during the nineties I got to know Patria the best. Patre would invite me to dinner. We would drink a lot of wine. She was very, very good at extracting information and confidences from me while we're feeling almost nothing of herself. But we had a very good time.

How do you feel about the fact that you did not get a letter? Relieved? That's not very nice. No, it was like, oh, I didn't want to be part of that web. It was a web too.

You know, what do you mean to pull people into their death that way? I mean it was a giving and a support in and out reach, but it was also a pulling in. I mean, the question remains, why are they so interesting two years later?

And they are? You know, too many people they are.

But I think also because of these letters.

And the question mark, I think yeah, and they clearly wanted people to wonder why the flag the headstone. I know people say, oh, the question mark is about what happens next when we die, but I think it's about sort of inviting people to wonder why they did it.

Yeah, and I would say that's Michael. I don't see her leading that parade.

She wouldn't have taken the initiative to buy the I don't think.

Even by the flag, have the fact the custom made the sales shop.

Yeah, yeah, they were big on custom made.

Yeah, they custom made their death.

I mean yeah, yeah.

I mean, if you write your own story, you get to write the end.

The letter is interesting because it's in German, but it's more awkward than she would usually write, because it was obviously one of many that she composed in English.

Would you mind reading it to us?

Of course, not Yeah.

Libakarin visit Chamaal Fourgagungen a sassion for nanfag Anger plant. It was planned from the beginning. Michael has researched everything and prepared. The time of our friendship was beautiful, precious and unforgettable. I cannot imagine anything further. And then in parentheses on the margins the afterlife question mark. We have our grave in Oysterville and the marker with the question mark, everything the way we felt it in our hearts together ashes in a box from cardboard. I know LUN's son will visit us. His mother is also there. I have some fear of the execution, but I trust Michael completely and have time to get.

Used to it. Since this was written like two days before they did it, I don't know how much time she thought she had. I wish you.

That your new life will take you gently.

In the arms and carry you. I embrace you. What she thought of my new life? I have no idea. My death very mysterious.

It's an interesting letter if you wanted to analyze it as to what all might be hidden in here. My reaction to it at the time was to grab a postcard and write it to her. With a farewell note and run to the post office and mail it.

But it was already too late.

So what did you say in your nut.

That I will miss her? I understand, but I will miss.

Her my letter was It would just break me up every time I read.

A what moved?

Do you think?

To come back to it over and over again.

I wanted to hear her telling me like how important the thing that I do was and how much joy I brought them. Sometimes it's just really nice to hear other people say it, like the thing that you've chosen to do and pour your heart and your creative energy into that it means something.

Like that.

It meant something to her every day and like a connection to her like that she was thinking of me as has they decided to not be here anymore, like that I was that kind of important to her. And it also, I guess it just made me feel close to her, as I loved her handwriting, like she had the most beautiful handwriting. I have a ton of these inscriptions that are all like to Jessica, who makes Paradise more beautiful? Thing?

You, Petra. One of the things that she.

Said to me in that last year was I want you to know that in the Mother Goose book.

That page forty five was for your son that died.

And I had a son that died in childbirth and I almost died.

And this was actually the first garden I came to.

I hadn't been at this property at all, and this was the first thing that I came back to.

After my son's death.

What's the illustration?

Tis a boy on the beach, like is back to you looking out to the ocean, some dune, grass, some water.

I want to read it.

Oh, that I were where I would be, then would I be where I am not? But where I am there I must be, And where I would be I cannot.

I'll tell you one story that I just really resonates with me. But Petra had a grandson. I had a grandson, I thought at the same time. But he's quite a bit. He's a couple of years younger than Jacob. And we were having lunch and I was trying to, you know, say, isn't it wonderful? And are they cute? And you know, grandmotherly things. I wasn't getting anything from her, and so finally I said, well, we both would crawl over broken glass to get to them. Right, And she said I only crawl or I only walk on broken glass for Michael, and I think that's true.

That's it.

They made a commitment to be that way, to be each other's everything, and that the relationship would be more important than anything except work. They clipped their own wings to be together.

And they did love each other. That is undisputed.

I would say, yeah, she really, she really loved him and wanted him, and they were together, you know, all the way into death.

I guess, quite wonderful.

It's magic, you know, whatever, all the people and the unworthy people I've fallen in love with, I've said it's it's fairy dust, like midsummer Night's dream. But whatever fairy dust there was between them, it.

Lasted.

It was no tragedy as far as we know. They were having a very wonderful, comfortable life in a very beautiful spot. And you know the one worm in the apple was too and the grandson.

And you told me on the phone that because of this you you reached out to tell and you were in touch with him.

How did he seem when you spoke to him after when you called him.

Oh, devastated?

Yeah, as he I mean, I quote he said, she abandoned me twice.

Every decision that I've made, Brenda, my wife and I have made in our lives, has always considered my son Jake first. How is this going to impact Jake? Is this good? We make sacrifices, We take things from ourselves to provide for him. I mean one of your questions, did your mother's parenthood affect yours? Yeah, one hundred percent.

I'm doing everything the opposite way. So I'm engaged in my son's life. And I mean he's twenty two years old and we're still doing that. He's going to be forty years old and we're still going to do that. So I mean, you're just beginning to understand that you have a two and a half year old. Every decision that my mother made, my mother made that decision for herself, and she didn't make it with me in mind. My mother, in a private conversation that we had several years ago, told me that if I if I had come with them, she doesn't think that her and Michael would have made it.

Why because I was probably too much or Michael didn't know how to deal with me. I don't I mean, I don't know.

Do you wish she had thought to have you come.

No, no, I don't. I can't look back and go what if? What if? What if? Because I mean, as terrible as this all sounds, you know, I'm okay. I mean, I'm good. I wouldn't change anything, because you know, if I had moved to the East Coast and I never would have met Brenda, I would have never had Jake. I mean, it's like, why I wouldn't change one thing for fear of things being different. I mean, I'm blessed.

I'm really lucky.

You know.

Do I wish I had had a better relationship with my parents in the end? Yeah, of course. Did I think there was still a chance that there would be some kind of reconciliation after time? Yeah, now that's gone and there's really nothing I can do about it now. So I mean, I'll tell you one thing is I sleep better at night that they're gone. And I know that sounds terrible to say, but I used to. I used to lay in bed worrying about my relationship with my parents and how I could fix it. I would lose sleep over that, and now I don't. I don't have to worry about that anymore.

You mentioned burying the ashes. Mm hm, So you did go down or was there a funeral?

No, there was just there was a small gathering. So it was Bruce in Virginia, Uh, Patty and then Bruce and Virginia's daughter and granddaughter, and then Jake and I. So that was it. I mean buried them in the rain. Each put in a little trinket with their with their box of ashes. We buried them and went to the local oyster place and head lunch.

Yes, yes, where we are Oyster Hill? Can you believe that?

Yi?

You want to see who?

Yayye happy yan.

Happy Claudie her be live in Oysteril right, nodding.

We're almost there.

I give now Oyster Belt.

Well that's where we're going.

Okay, is anyone coming with us?

Honey baby?

Okay, honey baby?

Are you a towel too? M?

That like is fine?

Oh?

The bird is flye?

Do you hear the ocean?

Yeah?

Test you see all these stones and rocks? Do you know what they are?

Yeah?

You do?

Getting a pizza?

What grand and bay?

People going and.

By people going to bed?

Yeah exactly, Oh yeah, this is where people go to bed.

Tess.

Look, this person died in eighteen seventy eight. Okay, now this is my kind of headstone. Look at how tiny that is. I love that.

It's like the size of a hot pocket. Do you remember where's supposed to eat?

Yeah, we're here.

Oh yeah, there it.

Is heay task, come here, test, come over here.

Come over here.

Look it, says Michael Mathers nineteen forty five through two thousand two twenty four patro Mathers nineteen forty five through twenty twenty four.

It is very handsome.

I have to say. Yeah, like the fact that all these other headstones are low.

And dark and angular, and there's.

Is round and white.

And I mean if I were.

Ton't design a gravestone, I would make mine look like that too.

It's just like a cartoon graystone.

I'd like to say, it looks like a Halloween gravestone.

Yeah, or like if you were illustrating a children's book.

And you have to illustrate it.

Yeah, what you do, that's what you would do.

No, it's not Halloween. We're just talking about it. This gravestone is about exactly your same height. Huh, you want to stand next to it?

That's what do you think the question mark means? What's the question mark all about test.

Fair enough, Okay, let's go.

I'm cool.

Well, let me change your chicken test. Look, it's a chicken.

Oh my goodness, my goodness, that is that chicken, Lottie.

That's I can't go on your rye.

Chickens going away.

The chicken is crossing the road to the other side.

That chicken, Lottie, chicken that too.

Let's see another chicken. Did you say you want to see a duck too? Yeah, that would be too much us. I love you too much.

Death of an Artist Season three is reported and produced by me Beyond Ny.

Falk and me Alice Gregory.

Our supervising producer and editor is Diane Hodson. Our producer is Sonya Gerwit. Our show is Alexandra Garreton. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. Original music and sound design by Evan Viola. Our fact checker is Aica Robbins. Additional production support by Julian Coley, and our show art was designed by Sean Carney.

This episode featured interviews with Karen Temple, Jessica Schleife, Barbara Hansel, and Tilman Richter. Special thanks to Sarah Vytech, Nevada Soul and Thaddius Moore at Sprout City Studios in Eugene, Oregan.

We'd also like to thank a few more people at Pushkin who made this season of Death of an Artist possible Kawa, Leah Morgan, Ratner, Kira Posey, Owen Miller, Jordan McMillan, Jake Flanagan, Corinn Gilliard, Fisher, Eric Sandler, Christina Sullivan, Jake Gorsky, Sarah Bruguier, Karen Chakerjee, Daphne Chen, Jacob Weisberg, and Grete Cone.

And thank you to the many people we talked to for this series whose memories and inside were so helpful. Caitlin Forrester, Matt Stanley Nichols, Clark, Jim Forrester, Don Grenberg, Goodwin Harding, Richard Anderson, Patty and Tim Merrill, Bob Zikowski, Brenda Penner, Steve Forrester, Bill Wilson, Alan, Marie Johnston, Tom Hamman, Junior, Susan Bonjas, and Danald de Speate.

Death of an Artist is a production of Pushkin Industries. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

This has been Death of an Artist Season three. Thanks so much for listening

Episode 6: By the Time You Get This Letter

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