Episode 2: It’s Lonely Without You, Friends

Pushkin leon nefok. Here before we get into this episode, I wanted to let you know that you can hear the full season of Death of an Artist ad free right now. By signing up for Pushkin Plus. You also get bonus episodes, full audiobooks, and true crime binges from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. Sign up and save on the Death of an Artist show page on Apple Podcasts or at Pushkin dot fm Slash Plus use the code artist twenty five for twenty five percent off in annual subscription. Let's get into the show.

Previously on Death of an Artist.

Dear Astoria Police Department, this is to inform you that Michael and Petro Mathers have committed suicide on February fourth.

I mean usually people when they commit suicide or something, they've gotten money problems.

Or they are very sick.

Not them.

Would you contact our executor, Patty Flynn and let her know she is aware of our decision, but not of the timing. She now owns the house.

Just look, what do you see? It's the same.

Book Sophie and Lou I think is to this day.

I think is a classic.

Oh, I do all dance books so much we're just the dancing Yeah, oh god, yeah.

And that's Sophie and lou our patron Michael.

Episode two, it's lonely without you friends.

That Sonya shaky, no barking, good talk.

Hi Sonia, Hi, come on him. Sorry, it's coming messy in here. We just got back from Oregon and haven't really had a chance to put the pieces back together.

Do you want to drop your stuff off in test his room? Oh?

Sure, yeah, I can just put the other microphones over here.

It's going through a radical transformation at the moment she started climbing out of her crib, so we had to replace the crib with a bed, and that kind of triggered this whole redecorating scheme inspired by Good Night Moon.

Yeah, loosely, loosely, you're so proud of that.

No, it's not literal. Red carpet, green walls, striped curtain.

Stripe, curtain. Yeah, Tesla Love's Good Night Moon.

How did you choose what books to give her? I would say eighty percent is just I'm looking for books that I remember, not even books I like. Frankly, yeah, I have I think like an uncannily vivid memory from my own childhood. Especially with books. Sometimes it's just an image will pop into my mind or a line or something, and it'll set me through this kind of frantic Google course to figure out what the book is.

This is how you ended up falling down the rabbit hole with Patri and Michael.

Right.

You read their obituary and you like recognize or read her obituary.

It was her times and maybe the name must have struck me as familiar or something, and I googled and then I recognized her most famous books, or the series, the Lotti books. It's about a chicken named Lottie and her best friend, Herbie.

It was a duck.

Turned out, I did actually have these books in my house growing up from when my sister was younger. I recognized the illustrations. Wait, so can I see all the Lotti books? Yeah, here they are, we have them all right here, there's five six of them.

Actually, Herbie's Secret Santa, which is about Herbie stealing a Christmas cookie and feeling really guilty about it. There's cake for Herbie, whor Herbie performs at a slam poetry event.

I think the original Lotti is Lottie's New Beach Towel, which.

Is about Lotti receiving a towel as a gift from her aunt Maddie, and then she proceeds to use it throughout a big day where the towel comes in handy. In all these different unexpected ways out in the.

World, they're very like painterly folk arty. It's like oddly chosen details and oddly rendered details. I would say mm hm, Like here's Lottie getting out of the water, and those are all individual droplets of water kind of being flung off of her feathers. But they're drawn in a way that I think like only a really little kid would identify water droplets. To me, I don't know what that is.

It's just very abstract and strange. Oysterville, where all these books take place, is a real place.

Actually, like forty five minutes from where Michael and Petro.

Lived in Astoria, Oregon.

In Astoria, organ we took tests there and we were like tests, We're in Oysterville. This is where Lottie and Herbie live. I feel like she got it.

Yeah, she was excited to be.

There, and Oysterville is the place where they ended up being buried.

Patro and Michael her in life Patty do you want to sit next to Do you want to sit next to Alice?

We can we can move down a little bit. Don't worry about looking at the Michael. I'll move it based on where you are.

I so abstractly know you know how to do all this stuff, Leon, but I've never actually seen you do it. It's funny, attractive, yeah, Da, I don't like to see you a skill. I don't know.

My name is Patty Flynn. I think I met Michael first around nineteen eighty, soon after Petra, but they were more friends with my brother in law and sister Jenny. But over the years, in the decades, I got to know them better. I'm also the was the executor of their trust. And it's been two years since their death, so that's sort of coming to an end. And still I have to, yeah, the files and papers, and I've done a scarlet O'Hare. You know, thanks a lot, right, Gael and Paide, You know that kind of thing, because I kept me up nights about certain things.

But Patty, you said they took you out to the Oysterville Cemetery to show you the headstone?

Is that?

Did I understand that?

Right?

So it was this.

So that was winter, and I'm not sure if it was the last time I really spent time with them or you know, time before, but they said, come on, let's go to Oysterville. I want to show you our stone.

Why do they like that location so much?

I'm only guessing is that it's beautiful and that's where she placed Lottie's home, the character that she wrote about and illustrated, and so I think being by water was sort of important to them, But I can't say I know that for sure, but you know, I think it's because a Lottie and we went out there and there was a stone and they were like standing so proud of it, and there was a question mark there and I said, what does that mean? And he would be like huge drug like you tell me, Uh yeah. They must have had somebody go out and do that question mark.

And then there was a flag here.

Question mark was it flying when they died?

It was up. It was up on a big tall bamboo stick and it was the same shape of the you know, the question mark was over by that wood shed, the garden shed.

The flagstim are still in the house.

It's in the gard and there's also a copy. There's another one downstairs if you want to see it.

So one was for other people to see, and one was just for them to come home to.

Yes, I don't know.

So interesting because in a vacuum, I don't know that I would have assumed that it had anything to do with death or anything dark. I mean, a question mark is like the definition of an ambiguous symbol.

It's a kind of a Michael thing. He you know, he could be a trickster and he could be mischievous, and you know, it's like the question is what happens after death or what?

You know?

Why did they?

Or you know?

So many questions people had, and I was the recipient of many of those questions because people thought, for sure I knew, you know, more than I did people with somebody sick, I don't know, with somebody you know, why would they you know? And so I think, well, there you go, Michael, all the questions.

Do you think that's what they wanted?

I don't know. Well, I really know. It's like it's still a question, do you think that that's what they wanted?

M h.

I don't know.

Higinia, Hi, Hi, okay, I'm here with Pallas.

Hi, Hi, Virginia, how are you I'm good. I drove to a neighborhood in Park so I could talk to you in private because my husband, Bruce, who was also Michael's best friend, he has been recently diagnosed with dementia, so it's been hard to just find a space. And you know, I mean, I can't share with him, you know, and stay right there and talk to you focus on the phone, because then he would start talking about Michael.

Andon just back, you know, not to stir it up for him. Yeah, but here I am. It's quiet and sunny, and I'm just fine.

I have to tell you.

It's so I think maybe you probably hear this a lot, but it's still uncanny hearing your voice because you and Patty.

Just sound so similar.

It's true. Oh, I know, we're so similar in so many ways too. Copies of everything I do, but you.

Don't think of genetics. I was going to say, if Alice and her sister sound exactly the same too.

Oh, copies everything I do? Yeah, Alice, say you the big sister, I am. I am. Yeah, that's okay.

Forgive us if we reverse to calling you Genny by accident, because it's.

Yeah, whatever you want to call me is fine.

What did. What did Petro and Michael call you.

San?

Always like yan It's net was never just sin or sin with her, you know her German accent. And Michael was like Senny. He always it that way, I can hear.

Are we right to understand that your husband Bruce was best friends with Michael and that you were best friends with Patron.

Yes. He and Bruce go back a long way through photography, and they stared that and became almost like the brothers. And they traveled a lot across country, stooding and everything and arguing all the way. And then I met Michael. I was with Bruce for maybe a year when Michael came back into Portland and he was staying with Druce, and he met Petra at a bookstore downtown Portland, and all of a sudden he was a different man. He was like dancing and whistling, and so we knew something was up.

How old were you all when you first became this poorson?

I guess we were like in our very early thirties when we came together. She was still married when she met Michael, and she was nervous about, I think staying at the apartment with Bruce and me and it took a little while, you know, for her to kind of loosen up and just start having fun with us too, Michael.

She liked the element of surprise and saying things that kind of throw you off course just a little bit and make you think, you know, and he could get away with goofy things, and people love that about him, you know, they loved his goofiness. She wasn't surbly boofy herself at all, not at all. You know, she was pretty conservative and story ahead. They just seemed to really understand each other in a really nice way.

Where we go, we'll go.

We're going the first of all, let this scat out of the dirty window or so now I have well, you know, here I am. You know now I've got a window washer, armorist. You know, all these people all of a sudden they're in my life. So I can you either sit and listen or things?

All right?

I mean I would love, would love to, but but if you're busy, do your thing. Okay, here we are in I was gonna say, Michael on Patro's house. But Patty's house, uh, looking out over the Columbia River.

I hope that's the.

Not the Pacific ocean anyway. Okay, we're looking through I guess they've kept these photo albums for every year of their marriage. Uh, we're gonna look through them and start at number one.

Right, What do we know about these albums?

Nothing? Patty just told us to take him up from the basement. We don't know anything. Their leather bound I think she said there's twenty one of them. Each one covers a year or two. So we're starting in an album number one, which looks like it covers the year's nineteen eighty through nineteen eighty two. Oh, they look so good.

She's beautiful.

Can you describe their clothes?

Well, he's kind of dressed in like a well it's black and whites, you can't tell, but very pale, maybe even white, like Tom wolfish suit. He's beaming as a bow tie. She's in a dress that I wish I owned, like a kind of very tight on top flared, long Madras dress. They're just being playful. Looks like he's playing the piano. She's laughing.

Yeah, okay, so we always had so much fun.

How old are they here?

They would have been in their thirties. He was born in forty five.

Yeah, she was to forty five.

They were both born in forty five.

Okay, so.

He's so my age.

Yeah.

Oh look, okay, here's the beginning of these Christmas cards. Probably right, this must be the first one. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. There they are singing Christmas carols. Looks like, Oh, is that a little Lottie Lotty in the Christmas Star?

Oh yeah, right there.

Hey, now we're on album too, Now.

We're now we're on polaroids.

I mean a lot of these are more of Patre than Michael, which makes sense because he's the photographer and she's a woman. She's posing in a white little unitard. Yeah, she's in the bathtub with like a very perfectly made bath bubble bubble bath bathing suit covering all the right places. Oh, there is jumping rope naked inside.

Oh wow.

And they're definitely having more fun than we have, right, or a certain kind of fun. I don't have this kind of fun.

I've never jumped overpe naked.

No, I'm glad you don't. But they dressed as a pirate. They're balancing on various pieces of wood debris. There she's posing on the top of the staircase.

Elaborately.

There they are under like dripping wisteria. She's in his lap lying with her, and that's really sweet. Is that your sister? Is that j Yeah, oh yeah, I can totally see.

Yeah.

When I saw the two of them together, the image that chained in mind was two checkers. I faund them like going pats two.

Checkers, like two checkers on top of the other.

Yeah, they were. They were that close, you know. They they also used their eyes is a lot for communicating like silently, you mean, yeah, when Michael wanted to go, he would look at Petra in a way that I knew, Bruce knew, maybe we all knew. In a moment he's going to announce that that it was time for them to go, And sure enough, you know, there was this communication between them through their eyes. Yeah.

That makes me think of something that Alice has said since we started working on this, that when she first read Paper's obituary in the New York Times and started reflecting on the way take Time Michael I did their lives, her first reaction was something like.

How will Maya pick like Romeo and Juliet?

But then when you start thinking about it, it's like a very extreme example of kind of what any marriage is or any romantic partnership work, which is necessarily by choosing one another, you are choosing each other instead of a bunch of other people.

Right, so your unit that is like.

By definition exclusive and dependent upon excluding people. But that feeling that people who love them are left with because it's kind of the ultimate.

That you can't play with us.

But kind of like we are like it's us not you.

Right.

Oh yeah, yeah, I feel if I was one of their friends, I think, Yeah, how did.

It feel being can close proximity to that or being a witness to it?

Well, I think that in many ways I longed for that kind of kind of in my life. I didn't have that kind of connection, not like the two of them. You know that they could read each other so well, or they could love each other so much so they could support each other in so many ways, and there was a connection that was for me, it was enviable almost.

Yeah, I get that looking through all of these photo albums that they kept over the horn of their marriage that Patty has it, I guess for half now I felt that even and I didn't even know them. You know, the thing that struck both of us is just how consistent they were through the years.

There's an existain sense of infatuation which you would imagine would which under normal circumance, that goes away after the amount of time.

Yeah, obviously rated presentation, you know, like they weren't including pictures in their photo albums of them looking bored or unhappy. But I mean I felt jealous of them just looking at photos and I'd never even met them.

Oh thank you, Alice, Yeah, so you appreciate what I mean. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you're right. That's exactly right. Like they were always the whole entire time they recording each other, and they never wanted to disappoint really one another, you know, And as far as I know, they didn't even right up until I don't know. I can stay right up until the end, but I don't know anything about the end.

So a lot of times they talked about death, like what do you think happens after you die? And Patro would say, do you think you're punished for your sins?

You know, because you.

Knew I grew up Catholic, and so we'd kind of philosophize about that. Michael was a real questioner, like he would just say Patty, what is your most prized possession? And they would both stare at me waiting for my answer. You know, I felt like I was being interviewed, and I think I said, oh, they go my wit or my sense of humor, and then they would give each other that famous look that they gave each other. You know, it's just between the two of them, like they said, okay, you know they like that answer. They don't know if I was being vetted to be the executor or what they wanted to know that what I favored, you know, or.

What you valued in yourself.

Yeah, I'm wondering.

Can you tell me about the last time you saw them.

I was here dog sitting for friends and a friend, and I can't really remember the whole thing, but Ginny and Bruce and the two of them would get together always for the super Bowl, And at one point Michael said, we're not going this year, and I went, oh, well, and then I kind of he gave me this sort of look, and I figured, Okay, you know it's going to be sooner than later. And so then I said to him, I don't want to know anymore. I can't be living my life every day knowing that there's a date or bo boah. You know, I don't want to know any specifics.

Please that.

I didn't want to know how they were going to do it or anything. So he respected that. So then it was time for me to go. But we walked outside and I, you know, hugged them and that's what we always did. And then I get in the car and I started crying. So I felt like the eye knew I knew that, and I waved and they saw that I was doing that, so, you know, but they weren't.

They weren't. They were just happy and waving goodbye.

So they saw you crying, but they weren't.

When I got into not like a big like probably like I'm doing now. It's just like and then I turned to wave and well but.

Uh yeah, imagine them waving you as you're in the car. It sort of reaffirms the sense that I have that they were very much at peace with this, Like there was no angst that they seemed to show anyone. And I'm curious, a if you agree with that assessment, and be why do you think they were so at peace with it?

Oh?

Yeah, you know what I think about it a lot, you know, especially the first year or so, It's like, what, I just think that they were so determined to do this thing together and there was going to be no other way. And yeah, they were just going to make sure that they took control of it. So and they did it exactly their way. Frank Sinatra, I did it my way. They did it, Yes, yes, I think they were very much at peace.

Did t how you share with you that they had asked her to be their executor?

Not until after the fact, you know, yeah, nothing nothing today. I would like to ask Patty, and I probably will, like what was that period of time? How long were you, you know, going out there to visit them and talk about this with them for months or years or what weeks or you know, please tell me. I want I want her to tell me in detail.

And she shared uns that Michael and Paper had these standing annual plans with you and Bruce to watch the Super Bowl.

M yeah, damn it.

Right and yeah yeah.

There was some comment to the effective like, I don't know if make it this year or something?

Right?

Can you tell us about the Super Bowl tradition? It seems so funny to imagine four artists, uh getting together every year for this one of them German. Yeah, exactly one of them German for this most mainstream of American uh traditions.

I know. It was just a funny thing to do, you know. They it was, of course Michael's you know, cooky idea to come. He love staying at this hotel and every year you get an upgrade and they love them, you know. And it was our day of eating chunk totaled chunk, which none of us ever really did, fears and whiskey. We always had to have Michael described as the place because none of us knew, not even Bruce person have a clue about football. And so I just get to that point when Peter and I would take off and we'd go find a big bed and we'd lay in it and by now we're lusive lips and we're telling stories and laughing, and we would start pretending that we were new in the neighborhood and there were these two guys that lived there, you know, and from

what they're talking and how they found, you know, who would you pick for boyfriend? I mean, we would just get like teenagers, you know, and it was the sweetest time. I always looked forward to our time in bed just talking about everything and being goofy and silly because he wasn't often you know, very goofy or silly. It was it was a thing that we always looked forward to, and it just allowed us to be together under funny circumstances.

I'm curious how Michael dealt with h Bruce's his dementia.

Yeah, oh, yeah, Okay, Well, he was very sweet and he would call Bruce every single Tuesday evening and when when Bruce was diagnosed with dementia, and it was a very caring and loving thing to do, so he was he was very attentive, a very attentive and loving friend. And after they died, by those sweaty nights were very quiet, you know, on the home front, without that phone call.

The last time I saw them was just maybe three weeks before they died. They came out to visit us after a brief trip to Pendleton, Organ a really great town and lots of things to see and do. And this is the thing that I think about. They came in and Michael was almost manic in his talk. He was just super jabbering, talking, talking, talking, and Petro was sitting on the very edge of their seat and her hands were clasped and not talking hardly at all. I asked them about Kendleton, and Michael said, we found a hotel or a hotel that had a restaurant so we wouldn't have to go out. And I should have taken it as a que to get him to say more about that. Why would you be there and never leave your hotel room? What was that all about? Now I'm

sort of kicking myself. Why didn't I pursue the story about Pendleton? Were they working out the details of what was become? That's how I perceived it that then maybe they were sitting and talking about how and when all of this is going to happen. And when they came to visit, did they want me to put it and pursue it and did they want me to find out what really is going on and what they were really doing?

And then I could say stop stop it right now? You know I should have paid better attention to how staints that visit was. I would have gone to great lengths had I known. Had I known, what would you have done?

How would you?

I would have screamed, I would have founded, I would have cried out, I would have protested, I would have given a million reasons to not leave this world.

Maybe they knew that. I think they did. I think they must have. Why didn't they tell us? Hy didn't they tell us?

Tell us where we are?

Right now?

We are in Michael's office slash now mine? I had, You know, I have to send PDFs and of us to the lawyers and CPAs.

I use this.

But what are these torn up photos?

They were down here and I don't know what they they were right here?

Can you describe the els?

It's a torn up photo of black and white of her beautiful face, her beautiful face, but I can Maybe she didn't. Do you think she tore it up because she didn't like the photo over?

So now I don't think so. I think he did it after.

I don't know.

How are you ever gonna know?

But you're putting back together pieces else.

Why would you tear these up?

Were these like his favorite pictures of her? His least favorite pictures?

How can that be?

Patty?

What's your theory?

I just wondered if well, the death certificates indicate that, uh, you know, she passed away first, So I just wonder how much time was between the two. And sometimes I my theory was that maybe just came down and did that, cried or something. I don't know, but I pictured. If you have another theory, let me know. But I thought it was odd.

I mean, I've pictured those moments and wondered how much time passed and whether he was sort of an autopilot at that point and just you know, did himself as soon as he was confident that it had worked on her, or as you said, did he do something in between?

Lovely a cup of coffee half cup of coffee up there in the kitchen when I came in, and those ripped pictures, So I think, did he have a cup of coffee? Did he come down or ripped these pictures up?

You know, I don't know.

I gotta say I'm so glad we didn't try to look through all twenty one of these photo albums at Patty's house well, and that she let.

Us take them back to our hotel, though I don't know if I have it in me to finish all of them tonight, we.

Won't see how far we got, all right.

So now we're in album ten, which is ninety eight two thousand, oh. Look here there at the Oysterfield Cemetery oh my god, oh wow.

Wow.

Okay, So there's Petra standing in front of a tree. In the foreground is a twin grave. That's one photo and the next.

One is Michael lying on the ground exactly where his gravestone ended up being.

Wow, so's twenty four years before.

Yeah, eye Alice, Okay, you're there at the Grand Canyon.

Here they are making out.

Oh here there at the cemetery again, just lounging in the grass.

She's working out in the cementary. She's got dumb bills.

Yep.

Oh my goodness.

Is that Mike pretending to hay himself. Yep, you don't. I don't associate like someone who's who has one of a lot of fois de vive also being obsessed with death, which they really seem to have been. I guess they'll read on It would be like they saw death as part of life.

That like gave some sort of constraint and those make things.

Can work on.

Yeah.

Maybe you like they're reminding themselves that they're going to die one day, so they better live it up there goof around.

Well, well they.

Can, Okay, last one. It's quite a slim yeah, because this is for twenty three and twenty four, So twenty four they didn't make it very far into.

So oh yeah, good point. Okay, there's Patty examining the grave.

Hold on, there's something tucked in the sleeve of this last album.

Was it a note?

Yeah, there's a note.

It's a note on the note.

Okay, what is M and P.

I'm putting this on the last page of your last photo album in the event that you come back to look at pictures of you two when you were alive?

Holy shit, do youar Michael and patro If this is goodbye friends of my thirties, forties, fifties, sixties and seventies, how far you are you've forgotten me? I know you have to, but still it's lonely without you friends, trying to make sense of why you left this world. Perhaps you had nothing more to expect from life. That strikes me as selfish, because life was still expecting something from you.

Had you come to me with your plans, I would have locked you up until you came to your senses. I would not have let you go gentle into that good night. Life is precious and should be fought forward every turn.

Good side who read this.

Dear Bruce and Jin. When you receive this letter, Petro and I will be dead. That's how it began. The letter was from Michael, not Petro. Correct, Correct, it was from Michael.

Do you wish I had been from paper?

Yes? I would saying I've been a personal note from Petra.

What was kind of the toner?

Practical? I mean, you know, we will be dead the time we get this letter. We will be dead. And this may surprise you, but we are leaving our home to Patty. Nothing about you know, thank you, no, nothing. It's just really practical. And yet the part about Patty was like, here's the I know they cared about her, but I always thought they cared about her as being grus engine sister. You know. I just didn't know how to put it all together. There was just I didn't understand.

I just didn't understand.

Do you feel like you understand better now?

No? I think of them in general, book Patterot in particular. Every everything, waking morning, I think for her, and I miss her terribly, and it still I don't talk about it very much anymore because you know, move on, girl, you know, but I'm still grieving.

Yeah, Virginia, we looked at the photo album at the house. Uh, we that's the last one, and we saw tucked into the back cover there was there was I guess what Patty thought was a letter from you. No, she wasn't sure, but she looked at the handwriting and thought it was from you. It's just based on the context. I was curious if you can tell us about that.

It was the looseliest piece of paper that had a poem on it.

Did that?

Does this ring a bell at all? Maybe this is not from you? Maybe Patty was wrong.

No, I did write something and tuck it in there. I didn't know what to do with that, but I wanted them to. I wanted them to see it. Yeah, you know, you never know. They might have snuck in one night and took a look again at their old photo album. Who knows. I think that that song you know, see what you lost when you left this world. There are so many things that I see and experience that I feel they have lost, you know, lost out on.

I just really loved her. I really loved her. Petrea once told me, and this is not so very long ago, she said, because they always said that they were going to go together when that time comes, he told me again. I think maybe I could be a widow. I think I could be okay with that she said those words. You know, maybe she was just strunging that on the side.

Were you pleased to hear that?

Yeah? Yeah, because I thought, I thank girlfriend. You know, maybe we'll both at some points be with us together and then then we'll really have some fun.

Which we have the centerpiece of Test's Lottie Shrine.

Here the original towel.

It's the real Lotty towel, which we got from Patty.

I think she was charmed to hear the tests with such a lotty head.

Yeah.

We were like telling her how much Tess loves these books, and Patty was like, oh, would she like the actual towel from the book? I have two? It has like a little confused when she said it, because I didn't don't need occur to me that there was like a real towel that the towel based on.

But it looks exactly the same. It's a magenta with white polka dots, and.

She just gave it to us as a gift.

And it is like the best present I've ever gotten.

For sure, it wasn't for me.

But Tess was quite enchanted by it too. I think she she saw it and she knew exactly what it was.

Does it actually is Lottie's beach towel.

It's the real thing, real beach towel.

This is Lottie's towel.

Do you get you just curled up with it?

You love it?

My paddle, it's your towel.

It was Lottie's towel, and now it's Testa's.

Towel the beach.

Has Tess only read the Lottie books? Or do you have all of Patro's other books too?

Ye?

Yeah, a handfulsh.

Sophie and Lou and then Theodore and Mister Bell, Victor and Crystabell, Victor and Cristabel. Maria Teresa.

That's her first one.

Yeah, this is the first one, Maria Teresa. Also also by a.

Chicken, Yeah, who lives in New York City but flies the coop.

Circus.

Yeah.

Yeah, this came out in nineteen eighty five. Oh wow, look at the dedication.

Oh ahead, Neisa to tell to tell.

Her son next time. I'm death of an artist. I'm really proud of my mom's career.

I just.

My mother.

Petro Mathers. The artist is not who My Mother Is to Me. Death of an Artist Season three is reported and produced by me Leon nay.

Fock and me Alice Gregory.

Our supervising producer and editor is Diane Hodson. Our producer is Sonya Gurwitt. Our showrunner is Alexandra Garritan. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. Original music and sound design by Evan Viola. Our fact checker is Aica Robbins. Additional production support by Julian Coley, and our show art was designed by Sean Carney.

This episode featured interviews with Patty and Virginia Flynn.

Death of an Artist is a production of Pushkin Industries. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts,

Episode 2: It’s Lonely Without You, Friends

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