Kenyon Dixon Talks New Album, R&B Mount Rushmore, King Of R&B Debate & How He Shapes His Sound | Bonus

0:00 Welcome to Effective Immediately, a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio. Yo, it's Effective Immediately. I'm DJ Head.

0:10 What up, bro? This your favorite homegirl, Gina Views.

0:12 We got a special guest in the studio. He's back.

0:15 Back again.

0:16 Back again. The homie Kenya Dixon is here. Yes, sir.

0:21 Hey, you said my name wrong, too.

0:22 Kenya. Yep.

0:23 Man, you don't understand the pressure of saying your name. When we was at Black on the Block- Hark, I was more nervous to say your name than to see the mayor.

0:32 I blame Kenya Martin, though.

0:34 No, that's not how you should blame.

0:36 Who should I blame?

0:37 The English language. Okay, that's fair. And black people. That's fair. You know what I'm saying?

0:42 Blame your parents.

0:44 I mean, they say my name the right way.

0:45 What, the black people?

0:47 My mom.

0:48 Yeah, yeah. Bro, you know what's interesting about the name thing, though, is it's not about saying it the right or wrong way. It's about... when you think about it right before you say it. That's when it throws you all the way off. Your name not hard to say. Yeah. But it's just when you just kind of get through it. You got two options.

1:08 So now you're trying to figure out which one.

1:09 No, no, no.

1:10 For me.

1:11 It's like Cleo and Chloe for me.

1:14 It's Rodeo and Rodeo. Rodeo. Yeah. Kenyon is Rodeo. Yeah. It's Rodeo, my nigga. Yeah.

1:22 That's Kenyon.

1:23 What's the worst pronunciation you've heard?

1:25 Probably Kanye. Kanye. Somebody calls you Kanye?

1:28 Kanye, Keyon.

1:30 Keyon is, I can see that. Kenton.

1:33 My homies, I got homies.

1:33 There's no T in your name.

1:34 I got homies that I grew up with to this day from the sandbox that just, that called me Key. Like, like for short, but that's not even, that wouldn't even be in the name.

1:44 Well, unless you dropped the, I don't know.

1:46 Yeah. Or just the N just don't exist.

1:48 Oh, they just dropped the N. Just Key.

1:50 Because every time you said, I got to look at your name.

1:51 Yeah.

1:53 And Keyon.

1:54 They still call me Keyon.

1:55 I can see Keyon. That's dyslexia, though.

1:59 Do you think you'll reach a point where you stop correcting people?

2:02 I kind of do it now a little bit. But the issue is the fans get mad. They get more mad than me when they see stuff. And they're like, why you let them say your name like that? So now I got to be like, all right.

2:13 Let's just say it the right way.

2:16 I'll never say it wrong again.

2:17 I appreciate it. Keyon Dixon is here. Yes, sir. Well, congrats on everything, bro. You've been moving. You ain't stopped. You one of them niggas who don't really go away. And I appreciate that because, you know, niggas be like, oh, you got to wait years for a new album from this artist. You don't make people wait at all. Like, you stay working. You stay doing shows. You stay on the road. You moving around. You said you was tired before we got on the air. What's the most tiring part about it? Is it the recording? Is it the singing?

2:44 Is it the performing? Being a parent?

2:48 Like, Man, I mean, you know, that's my every day. So I'm adjusted to that. I think traveling is tiring because especially as an artist, people think when you travel, it's all like party, party, party. Like I know these cities by the airports.

3:03 Facts.

3:03 Like I'm there more than I am. You know what I mean? Really like moving around. But between that and honestly, that's probably it, bro. Because then also, you know, you got people in these cities and you want to get out and do little stuff. So you try and push yourself. But by the time you go to sleep, it's time to lobby call. You got to get to the airport, next city. You know what I mean? So then you get home, hit the ground running. Because, again, my everyday life is fatherhood. So immediately back to that and just, you know, my usual. So, yeah, you know, you get used to it, though. I complain, but it's like fake complaining.

3:40 Like I'm tired, but I ain't going to stop.

3:42 So, yeah.

3:44 Middle hour window.

3:46 Oh, window. Yeah, because you got to be able to lean over.

3:49 No, there's no window seats available.

3:54 It's cool because if there ain't no window seats, I'm probably in first. So I'm in the aisle.

3:57 No, nigga. It's bigger.

3:58 No, don't try to put me in coach.

4:01 I ain't in comfort plus. You in comfort plus.

4:04 I'm not there either. If I'm in comfort plus. Hey, you know what, though? Because you do got the little things on the seat, so.

4:15 They don't work. Those things don't work. I hate them.

4:19 Middle or aisle. And you know I hate middle.

4:22 Bro, middle or aisle?

4:23 No, but look.

4:24 No, look.

4:24 Let me say, though. The issue with the aisle, because I want to say aisle, but they be coming through with the carts and they always wake you up because they always brushing you.

4:31 That's because you in the aisle.

4:33 I'm going to still take the aisle over the middle, though.

4:35 Same. Yeah. Same. I got to.

4:37 Now you were a hot commodity at Tyrese versus Tank.

4:41 Man.

4:42 You have to share with us your POV of versus.

4:46 Okay. That was an interesting process, you know, cause y'all know my history with the, with the guys. I grew up touring with, with Tyrese writing for Tyrese and Tank and the fellas and everything. So Tank called me about singing background. Um, he had mentioned Tyrese yet. I didn't know. So Tank called me. So, um, I hit Tyrese just cause like, this is my homie. So I'm like, I want to make sure he know what I mean. And then that's when I found out, like, uh, I was supposed to be single with both of them and it just turned, it took a life.

5:22 Of his own. Bro, you was like a dog in divorce.

5:24 Bro, I felt like a kid in a custody battle. I felt like a kid in a custody battle, man, because I'm like, I'm just here to sing for both of the homies.

5:33 Who were you supposed to sing for?

5:34 Both of them.

5:35 No, no.

5:36 Both of them from jump.

5:37 Bro, you don't answer no questions.

5:39 So this is the problem, because y'all are committed to the answer that ain't the answer. The answer is that I was supposed to sing with both of them. They were going to share singers. I was the only singer out of all of the singers. who had worked with both of them individually. That's why both Tank and Tyrese was like, we want King. So there was already singers that were singing for both guys.

5:56 Yeah. Understood.

5:57 But I'm going to tell you where it got interesting. Funny story, where it got interesting. I've been in rehearsals with Tank. I've been in rehearsals with Tyrese. Everything's still separate. So I know everybody's set. I know everything that's going on. I get to sound check, two different sound checks, obviously still at the same space. I walk over. The other two singers are there. I see the third seat, which would be mine, but my name not on the mic.

6:21 And I'm like, did I get fired?

6:24 And I don't know.

6:24 I don't know what's going on right now. And it was my homie Lonnie, Lonnie Burrell. So Lonnie's name was on the mic, and I see Lonnie sitting there. But Lonnie had been in rehearsals with us, so I didn't know nothing. So I'm like, okay, maybe I'm not singing no more. And then I walk over. They tell me, oh, we're going to set you up over on Tyrese's side. And, like, you're just going to sing from his side, but for both of them. I'm like, okay. It ended up being like a logistics issue because we never knew they were splitting sides like that. So I can't sing here and then walk over here, sing with him and then walk over there. So they had to pick a space for me to be in. That's what made everything more interesting

7:02 because at one point I'm forgetting this is really like a versus, a battle. Tank starts singing the turtleneck thing. I'm singing along, but Tyrese right here. I'm not even thinking about that. Tyrese standing right next to me, and I'm singing this song. I'm like, man. So it just, I don't know, man. It got interesting. But those are both my guys, man. Like, I learned the game from them.

7:24 That was fire, though. Yeah, man.

7:26 That's why I was willing to, you know, be with both of them. They've shown me so much. I just didn't know it was going to turn into what it did, honestly.

7:32 Mm-hmm.

7:33 Is the audio really messed up there or is that just a cop out? Because it seems like every time we get an R & B verses or singing verses, people saying that it's like the audio issues.

7:41 Man, you know, there's a lot of moving parts and I think maybe they're still figuring it out. Honestly, that happens often.

7:50 It's what productions do.

7:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that they move as fast as they can to try and troubleshoot it. And, you know, it's live. So I think that that's the thing. So it's like stuff goes wrong and they got to figure out how to change it. But, Yeah, I definitely. It was funny because the big moment of me being there and Tank wanted to make sure I soloed and everything like that because Tank was very clear. He's like, man, you're not a background singer, even though you came from this.

8:16 And with us, he's like, I want to make sure I give you your moment. When he told me, he's like, I want you to have a solo moment. And then that's when the audio, when I start singing my solo part. Nobody could hear anything. Yeah, that was crazy.

8:28 Damn.

8:29 So as a professional in this business and then with yourself being an R & B singer, you're a writer as well.

8:35 You're an amazing musician.

8:37 Thank you.

8:38 How do you look at verses for as far as like the winner? Should it be the person who best performs as a live singer or the person who has the better catalog?

8:50 Or a combination of both?

8:53 So I think I wouldn't have considered the live singing aspect, but that's now a part of Versus. At first, it was just playing records. So I feel like if it was just the records, then the singing shouldn't be counted. But now we have to count it because y'all are allowing people to perform. So I think, yeah, that's tricky because you could have the better record, but depending on how you present it, that really will change people's perception of the round.

9:18 So, yeah, I guess you got to consider all of it. Mm-hmm.

9:23 Yeah.

9:23 I think it's because we had a conversation all the time where we'll feel like, because like with Tank and Tyrese, I had Tyrese winning because I know his, obviously I know his catalog better and I feel like the majority we know Tyrese's catalog more than Tank's as far as to who he's wrote for, you know, things like that.

9:41 You don't necessarily know what musician has wrote for another musician if you're not, you know, in a business.

9:47 But then we.

9:47 Saw B2K versus Pretty Ricky where obviously B2K is the better live performers, but Pretty Ricky has a better catalog, or their catalog aged better.

9:58 You know what I'm saying? Then we got Donnell Jones.

10:01 Versus Joe, where I had Donnell winning going in.

10:05 I was with the world on Joe. Because I said, I was like, bro, what he going to do when that nigga do Big Rich Town? We didn't know that he was going to bring G-Unity shit out. Yeah, that was crazy. At that point, it's like, hey, my nigga, what you supposed to do?

10:20 Because then that's another thing where it's like, I feel like it's so many things that have to be considered in verses because something like Bickertown is going to win.

10:28 Due to recency bias.

10:29 Yeah, it's a cultural thing.

10:31 Yeah, but we'll never assume that a TV show, a jingle.

10:37 So, you know, for lack of a better term.

10:38 Because you're not going to go and play that.

10:40 Exactly, yeah, yeah.

10:41 But it just seemed like it's just so many different things. And like you said, the live performances wasn't a part of it initially, but now that's something that people have to consider. If you perform worse than the other person, it don't matter if your catalog is better than theirs or not.

10:54 Yeah, I think that's what makes verses tricky because now you have to consider cultural impact, which sometimes.

11:01 Outweighs hits, chart hits.

11:03 You got songs that were just more like, I grew up B2K era. That's my era of R & B boy band. But high school parties, the memories are to the Pretty Ricky stuff.

11:14 That's the cultural impact. We talked about that. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

11:17 That was our difference with, like, the age difference.

11:19 I'm like, because he's like, well, I came up with B2K, but I was outside with Pretty Ricky.

11:25 And we were talking about the dances. What's the guy, the dude's name?

11:28 Oh, you remember Jay Smooth back in the day?

11:30 What?

11:31 He didn't remember him.

11:31 Come on, man.

11:32 I remember the name for sure.

11:33 On the MySpace, dancing there with nigga Randy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:36 You wasn't one of them, though, because you grew up in the church.

11:38 No, no.

11:39 I used to clown dance, though.

11:40 Yeah?

11:40 I did use to clown dance. But J Smooth, me and my homie Fable talk about J Smooth all the time.

11:44 Yeah.

11:45 Like, I forget the name, and I be like, hey, what's the nigga name again?

11:48 Like I just said. Yeah.

11:50 Literally.

11:51 Shout out to J Smooth, man.

11:54 Before I dive into this project, I want to ask you a couple things about just R & B in general. Because she's the R & B head between the two of us. From your perspective, is R & B in a better state than it has been right now at this moment in time?

12:08 Has been compared to, like, recently?

12:10 Yeah.

12:12 Hmm. That's a good question. Do I think it's in a better space now?

12:17 For the artists, yes.

12:19 Because I think that the industry is changing rapidly. to better support the strategy of independent artists so that's right now it's kind of more in favor of the artists i'm seeing labels labels are changing their entire strategy to look like what independent artists do because they realize that that's more appealing so right but just on a music tip i think so bro because i think i think people are more creative now and they got the freedom to just execute what they want. That doesn't mean that the quality of the music is going to be something that everybody appreciates, but I do think there's a lot more freedom right now and artists are just making what they want to make. That makes it complicated for the

12:58 listener in a way of you got to sift through a lot more music to find what you like, but there is a lot more of what you like being made. You just got to discover it now because there's also a lot more of a bunch of other stuff being made too. So I would say, I would say, I think it's in a better space.

13:14 How do you... Two-part question. First thing is, when's the last time you've been intimidated? Because you got hella accreditations. You got a lot of shit going. Grammy nominations. Justin Timberlake, Jill Scott. When's the last time Kenyon Dixon was intimidated?

13:30 I don't know, man. Don't nobody scare me.

13:32 No opportunity? No award show? No nothing?

13:35 No, not really, man. I think my average is so high.

13:38 I've worked. I've put in way.

13:40 More than my 10,000 hours that anything I do even if it's not my best, it's going to land in a space where it's still excellent enough to be satisfied if I'm not picking myself apart and being super meticulous about what I didn't like about it. But I think it still lands in a space to where, if I was being honest with myself, I'm like, this was still good.

14:00 I just didn't like it for, you.

14:01 Know, whatever reason.

14:02 But, yeah, I don't know that I've really been dead. There's not much that can intimidate me, for real.

14:10 Is there an approach that you, is there a different approach to singing doing vocals for a female singer versus a male singer?

14:18 Hmm.

14:19 On the background end?

14:20 Yeah, on the background end.

14:21 I think it depends on the artist. And I say that because you got artists that are more, like, sensual, or you got artists that present a little more. It just depends on the vibe of the music. Like, you're not going, if you were singing background for Ella Mai, that's not going to feel the same as you singing background for Jill Scott.

14:40 There's, like, a.

14:41 Different type of.

14:42 Different texture. Yeah.

14:43 Different textures, different vibe, you know what I mean? And it's all about executing what the artist wants. So I think that's like artist to artist.

14:51 What about writing? Same.

14:53 So I'll tell you the upside I have when it comes to writing.

14:57 I've toured with a lot of these artists.

14:59 So I actually have the benefit of knowing what it looks like when the people in the audience responds to something on stage. So I always take that into consideration when I go in. Like writing with Justin Timberlake.

15:10 Yep. Got you.

15:10 Touring with JT. We making these records, I had the upper hand of being like, huh, okay, when I'm on stage with you and you sing Mirrors, I see them do this. When you sing Cry Me a River, I see them do this. So I'm always looking at the feeling and trying to create the feelings that work for the record. So I think, yeah, I would say I think that's the difference with, you know, with writing and stuff.

15:33 Damn.

15:34 When you're writing, does your religious background at all affect the content that you put into the music? Even if it's for another artist?

15:42 Yeah, yeah.

15:43 I'm more free with other artists, I think, because it doesn't... Your name is not the main name on it.

15:49 I'm going to get it off over here.

15:50 Exactly.

15:50 You can get it off. You don't got to worry about it. I think I've been a little more reserved because I know that. You know everybody's watching. You know what your background is. You know what the expectation is. I think this album, which is why it was so different for me, this new album was the first time that I really didn't care about what anybody knew of me previously, what they thought.

16:12 I just did what I felt, and I wanted to tell a story, and I was like, based on that story, I'm going.

16:17 To do whatever it requires.

16:18 But yeah, more than half of my professional career, I spent really being scared to to put out what was in my mind. Going back, changing lyrics, censoring stuff, thinking that I was going to do it and listening and being like, nah, I got to clean this up. You know what I mean? But I'm finally in a space now to where I'm like, y'all know what I'm doing whether I tell y'all or not.

16:42 Yeah.

16:43 So what we lying for?

16:44 I was watching your 2000s R & B video.

16:46 Yeah.

16:47 Can you speak on the significance of rain in music videos?

16:50 Oh. It's really like, it's nostalgia. I'm going to tell you what I associate it with. and again, this might be an age thing. Usher did a live performance and he was on stage and the rain was coming down.

17:04 That's what I always associate the rain.

17:07 You got it back?

17:08 Yeah, it was, I think that was in the video, but there's a, I'm trying to think of, was it from the Confessions live tour or was it an award show? I think it was an award show.

17:20 Okay.

17:21 So I always associate it with that because that's the era of R & B I saw mainly, but I think R & B just has certain elements that there's something about the rain that's super sensual and makes you think. And I think people associate the rain with like, something about it is like romance. Yeah. Or just, and not necessarily romance, but it's that feeling. It's the same thing when they talk about people... posing laying down for the album covers or being in the desert or having on leather like it's it's one of those elements that that sparks the the visual remembrance of you know of R & B.

18:01 Yeah outside of the rain the other thing is um standing outside of somebody's house holding a radio do you think the R & B music videos from that era were an accurate depiction of how men are actually in relationships Because I think for me, like, it's no different than assuming, you know, in high school that everybody going to have convertibles and shit and we all going to be at the beach.

18:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:24 You know, like, so the older I got where I'm thinking, like, of what dating actually looks like, I'm relating it back to the R & B videos from back in the day. But that's not how niggas give it up.

18:34 Nah, nah, nah, nah.

18:35 At all.

18:35 So I think at that time it may have been a little more prevalent. I mean, niggas going to be niggas.

18:40 Right, right. Period.

18:41 So it don't matter what. There's always going to be some contrast to even whatever the norm is.

18:45 What niggas do.

18:46 You know what I mean? Hey, that's literally what the record is about. So, yeah, I think at that time it was more likely that that could be, you know, that that could be the experience. Because I do think, and especially then, well, no, even now, probably more now than ever.

19:03 It's not enough begging going on these days.

19:05 But art imitates life. Niggas not begging, like, in general no more. You know what I mean? It's like fair game. So the music we're hearing, I tell you, somebody just told me the other day, They said, man, I know this ain't true. She told me, she said, but I feel like when you singing, when I'm listening to your music, I feel like you're talking to me. She's like, I feel like you're talking to me personally and it's a connection.

19:26 And I was just thinking about it. I'm like, when you don't feel like that, it's probably because this is how these niggas are, even like intimately. That's probably don't take time to make the connection. And like, so I think that the art really does reflect how people live their lives. So when they talk about there not being as much love in the music, I'm like, Love don't look the same as it did when You know what I mean When we had that music That we associated with that.

19:50 So Ego ruins everything.

19:52 Yeah it does Why? Man so the You know so the title itself Is going to catch your attention But when you listen to the album The context kind of clarifies it So what I always say is Ego by itself is not terrible But ego is a terrible leader So you can't let ego take the take the front seat. You have to check ego, tell ego what to do, where it belongs. And so I think ego unchecked and not in his rightful place will ruin everything. If you get your ego together and then ego is not necessarily bad because I think it gives you a layer of protection and helps you navigate in general.

20:29 So it doesn't.

20:30 Have to ruin everything, but an unchecked ego absolutely ruins everything.

20:34 Did you have the song? You had that song and then you decided to call the project that or vice versa?

20:39 Nope. I had that title before I even named the song.

20:42 Oh, is that right?

20:43 Yeah. I was probably like six, seven songs in before I created Ego Ruins Everything.

20:48 Gotcha.

20:48 But I knew I had to tackle that because that was such an important title and like a spot on point for the album that I was like, I got to elaborate on that.

20:59 Was there... What's something that ego has cost you? What has ego cost me? Friendship at times. You lost friends because of your ego. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:11 And you know what? A lot of the times you don't think you can have ego when you weren't the one that committed the offense. But I learned that I've had ego a lot of times and not being able to forgive other people. And that has cost me friendships. Not necessarily friendships that they weren't willing to reconcile with friendships that I wasn't willing to reconcile because I'm, you know, you feel like what I, like, I ain't even do nothing to make you do that. That's enough of an offense for me to be.

21:39 Like, I'm cool. I'm off you.

21:41 And then you realize later down the line, like it really didn't have to end like that.

21:44 Like, you know, we probably could have, but you're not going back though. Yeah. That's the ego. Okay.

21:49 Was there a specific moment that made you come to the realization of the ego and label it, make, making the title of that or was it your ego or someone else's ego?

21:58 It's all of ours.

21:59 I think that's the beauty of the album. I speak on my ego. I speak on your ego. Probably at some point, any, anybody listening, I think it's a general story. And I think a lot, a lot of people like to think that they don't have ego. And this album is touching on situations and reminding people that we have a lot more in common and a lot more to work through. And I think I was able to make the album cause I worked through it. You know, I went through therapy on my own, not to make this album, but, but, I don't think this concept would have even come to me if I didn't work through it because I think I would have been too triggered to ever even make an album around something like this because I would have

22:34 to sit in a whole bunch of stuff that I hadn't really resolved yet.

22:40 So it was your ego that got us to the title?

22:43 It was my understanding of ego overall, I would say, that got us.

22:47 To the title. I fuck with that. Explain No Jodeci to me.

22:51 Yeah, yeah.

22:53 I fuck with it. I just wanted you to bust it down. No, I appreciate that, man.

22:56 So on the surface, I'm going to tell you why I named it No Jodeci.

22:58 There's a line.

23:00 It's really like the line in the song where I say, but I can't cry for you to say No Jodeci. You know, Jodeci has a song, Cry For You. So that's really why I named it that. But the song really is about ego. And knowing that, you know, you may feel a type of way about somebody or... You want something to work out or whatever the case is.

23:23 But on the other end of that, everybody has their expectation of who you are. And you're basically saying, I want to be vulnerable. I want to be all these things. But they think I'm the man over here. And I kind of like that feeling a little better. So unfortunately, I can't cry for you. This ain't no Jodeci. So I got to kind of stick to that side of it.

23:41 So that's what that's really what that record is about.

23:43 You be rapping low key I used to want to be a rapper Yeah Yeah I can see it I thought I was gonna be a rapper You kind of look like a rapper A little bit But the arms give me R & B.

23:52 Okay I love that I love it I love it Cause rapper I'm gonna be quiet But yeah You.

23:59 Got a R & B Mount Rushmore.

24:04 Yeah low key.

24:07 My number one Always gonna be Anita Baker Okay I got D'Angelo I got Marvin. And my fourth, I got to give it to Tyrese because that was one of my most impactful R & B experiences. Again, being from Watts, growing up in church, that was the first CD that wasn't gospel that was allowed in the house that I didn't get in trouble for because I had got it from the park up the street and he was doing like a give back for the community. So my mom allowed me to keep that. And then Tyrese ended up being it really showed me like a lot of the game.

24:44 That's really how I learned R & B. First person I toured with for real. First person I got my first writing placement with, my first Grammy nomination. Like he really was that person for me. So I think, I think he rightfully earns.

24:57 That, that spot. Okay.

24:59 That's your Mount Rushmore.

25:00 Yeah.

25:02 From your POV, who's the king of R & B?

25:06 King of R & B?

25:06 I got to give it to Joe. Okay.

25:08 Joe is, I mean, as a, And I get it. I'm a singer's singer, so I think that singers, especially people who understand live singing and execution, are probably more partial to people who can do that. But I think Joe is really a master class, or has been a master class, in how to execute an emote in R & B records and bring that emotion to the stage. And he's...

25:37 I know there has been mixed reviews on the latest live performances and the verses and stuff like that, but Joe is somebody you got to give him his stuff because for as long as we've known him, Joe don't really have no bad days like that. He's somebody that has consistently, anytime I've seen Joe live, anytime I've heard the record, he's never not sounded great. I think he earns that spot.

26:08 I have a question, bro. So track four on the album is running away.

26:12 Yeah.

26:12 Track seven is running. Track 11 is running again. Yeah. and track 15 is still running. What the fuck are you running from?

26:21 You like the AOL, AOL.

26:22 Yeah, you know what I mean? You know what I mean?

26:24 Roll runner.

26:25 What the fuck are you running from, bro? Who did it?

26:29 So it tells a story. So if you listen to those interludes, they're more scores than interludes. And so what happens in context of the album sequencing is every time you hear that, cinematically, it gives the idea that the character that you're listening to is.

26:45 Oh, now it's a character. It ain't him. It's all of us.

26:48 It's you if you listen.

26:50 I like your separation anxiety too.

26:52 It's you if you listen to it.

26:53 Okay.

26:54 But it's like on a cinematic end, anytime you hear that, it was supposed to be my equivalent to like a... Well, not supposed to be. It's my equivalent to like a familiar image if you're watching a film. So I wanted to give a sound bite that every time you hear this, you know I'm letting you inside of the character's brain and the possibility of them getting ready to make another bad decision.

27:13 So that's why.

27:14 if you listen, also the feeling and the frequency that those interludes are on should change. So by the time you get to the last one, it's a little brighter and happier than the ones you heard in the beginning because there's a resolution at the end of the album, whereas prior to that, you're kind of still in that space of ego.

27:29 Still in that space, yeah. So with that thing, because first of all, congrats on being able to do a theme. Thank you. Like, that's not as rare these days. But in therapy, you said you went to therapy and stuff like that. Yeah. How did that play a role in you constructing stuff and being vulnerable? Like, does that... Is it hard for you? And then what was the hardest thing that you had to tackle?

27:53 Hmm.

27:55 From a therapeutic standpoint.

27:56 Yeah, yeah. It's not hard for me now. I think the hardest thing in my life forever, just because of my personality, is going to be forgiveness.

28:06 Always.

28:06 Because I'm a pretty consistent person, and I'm very considerate, and I'm like a friend's friend.

28:13 So.

28:14 I tend to take stuff very personal when people do stuff because my mind says, well, why would you do this? Cause I didn't do anything that warranted that. And I realized that I learned in therapy, um, that that kind of jams my process of resolving. And my therapist used to be on me all the time about, uh, about addressing stuff as it happens. Um, cause he would say, I have this like delayed thing where I don't say anything and then I'll wait and I'll sit. And it's because I'm, I'm just considerate of people. I'm, I'm also super empathetic. So I'll, So I'm careful to, like, not say things that I feel like are going to make people feel a way. Because then I got to deal with knowing that you feel like that. Yeah. So I'll wait.

28:51 And then what ends up happening is you end up misplacing your anger or whatever in a situation where it don't make sense. And they're wondering, like, you mad like this because I did this? And the whole time it's like, nah, it's really because you did all of this. But this was the one thing that made me.

29:05 You harvest shit.

29:06 Go with the cherry on top.

29:07 Yeah. So I think, yeah, still... that's still my biggest lesson um forgiveness and just just resolution uh overall and so how that helped me with this project though is because like i said if i hadn't went to therapy and got a better understanding and kind of learned how to navigate some of this stuff i think listening to i wouldn't even be able to listen back to this album honestly i would i would probably be triggered every song and i probably wouldn't put it out i probably would have recorded it just to get my rocks off and then tucked it yeah tucked it and nobody ever would.

29:40 Have heard it. Damn. Okay, from your POV, is there a difference between R & B and soul?

29:48 I think I know what people think the difference between R & B and soul is based on what I've heard. I think when people speak about soul, they're really only talking about people that they think sing better.

29:59 So that's it.

29:59 Nobody has ever like said it straight up, but it's the same thing when people, I look at the artists, like when people say stuff like, man, like who are the new neo soul artists? They're, they're purely talking about vocal ability.

30:10 That's it.

30:11 They, that just means that they think you can sing. And I think that that's the difference between, that's the general consensus really of the difference between R & B and soul. But yeah, I think, I think soul does come from a place that's, a little more traditional and it's closer to the church than R & B is.

30:29 I think that, that might be, uh, what I would say the difference is. I think soul music just has a little more depth and a little more influence from the foundation of, like R & B is a derivative of soul pretty much.

30:43 Who would be a soul artist and who's an R & B artist? Soul artist is like, uh, Aretha Franklin. Okay. And an R & B artist?

30:52 R & B artist would be like, Like Joe Okay but Hybrid would be like A Jasmine Sullivan Okay Jasmine has that soul She has that foundation But she can make the music That translates to R & B Okay How do you identify? I think I'm R & B soul Literally I think I'm No that's what it says Your shit That's why That's where I got the question from Yeah Cause I was listening to your project I'm like It says R & B soul R & B soul So I was like Damn I wonder what he think There's a difference Between the two Okay Yeah I think I said I said If nobody else, I think I sit.

31:30 Directly in that middle seat. You sit comfortably in the end. 100%. Last thing for you, what can rappers learn from R & B singers?

31:38 Hmm. Vulnerability. They can also learn it from the rappers before them, too, other eras, because early 2000s, like, fabulous, so into you. We're not getting records like that no more. He was really talking that talk on a record like that, but I think that came from their love for R & B music. So, I think, yeah, rappers learning, it's okay to make women feel good when they make records. I think that's something that they should take into consideration if you want them at your shows. Unless you just want a crowd full of niggas, that's on you.

32:10 What about performance-wise?

32:13 I think it's that same thing. I think it translates. I don't know when the last time I've been to a rap show and I saw a rapper on stage come and start rapping to a woman. Because one, they don't have the context. to be in her face. Talk about me.

32:26 Be in your face. Hold up, wait a minute.

32:28 You know what I mean?

32:29 Talk about nigga sketchy.

32:30 Yeah.

32:31 What we talking about?

32:32 Yeah. Came in her face, talking about the opps. You know, you got that thing.

32:36 When I brought that out in the morning, y'all thought I was.

32:39 Like, imagine.

32:40 With some roses, though. With some roses, though. Right. Yeah, so... Yeah, I think... I had to ask that question because you had brought up the different people that you saw perform the Usher thing. And I remember seeing Michael Jackson perform with NSYNC. And it was like an Etch-A-Sketch. It was at the MTV Awards. And they shook the Kings of Pop off. They shook the S off. And they said, Kings of Pop. And Michael Jackson walked out. It was an epic-ass performance. And then I saw fucking Usher dance on a wall. Like, he was singing. And he was on a wall sideways performing. And I was just never seeing no shit like that. I ain't never seen a rapper do nothing like that to this day. So that's why I asked that. Yeah.

33:18 Yeah.

33:18 What can people expect from Kenyon Dixon on the road?

33:23 Man, you know, I'm mentally building what I want this next live show to look like.

33:28 Okay.

33:29 Because I'm like a fully immersive person. I like experiences. And that's been my goal with this new album. In every aspect, I want it to be disruptive. I want people to come to a Kenyon Dixon show. They know what they're coming to get, but I want them to get something other than what they're expecting. And so I'm working on how I can present this album in a way that kind of checks all.

33:53 Of those boxes.

33:54 But you always going to get, you know, you always going to get.

33:58 A great live vocal. Always.

34:00 I'm always going to prioritize sounding like my records or, you know what I mean, somewhere in that world. And just good energy, good R & B energy. I've never saw an argument or a fight at my shows. And I think that that's important because it speaks to the energy in the room. Like my supporters and my fans, so many of them come to my shows together. I see it happen online where they're, they're meeting for the first time and making plans. Like, well, I'm going to be here. Well, I'm going to be here too. All right.

34:26 We're going to meet up here. And then shows later, every time I'm in that city, they're now together. They become like genuine friends. I think that speaks to, uh, the love and, and what I'm putting into the music. So I think that's something you can always expect, but this next tour, man, like I want, like, I want to show like I'm a singer, but you know, that's again, that's talking to the average. Uh, I'm going to sound great, but so now let me figure out, you know, how to heighten that experience.

34:52 What's the experience?

34:53 Have you saw a wedding proposal on tour yet?

34:56 Nah. So nobody proposed at your show yet. So we got to do that then. I got to be first on this tour.

35:02 Nobody proposed yet, but they celebrate anniversaries all the time.

35:04 Okay.

35:05 All the time.

35:05 Yep. All right.

35:06 And then I always get the stories that we fell in love to your music.

35:09 So.

35:10 So I wasn't at the proposal, but I always see the weddings. I always get the stories.

35:15 Come as you are, make me want to go find a nigga.

35:17 I love that.

35:19 I love that. I appreciate you pulling up, bro. Of course, man. Let us know when you got the shows. She want to go find a nigga. Ego Ruins Everything is out right now. Kenyon Dixon is here. It's Effective Immediately. Effective Immediately, a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You can hit us collectively at Effective Immediately, and make sure you hit that subscribe button on all our platforms.