How to Rebrand, Build Confidence, and Start that Business with Cass Dimicco

0:00 I didn't think I was like worthy enough yet. I was like, I'm not there yet. Finally, it came to a point where we were like, all right, like we need to get our act together. We turned into completely different people. And I think that gave us the level up and the confidence to then feel like, okay, then now what's next after that?

0:15 Like, okay, let's start a business together. If you don't feel like you have that confidence, maybe try channeling into something that can like build your confidence up first. Then maybe you'll feel like, okay, I feel like I'm having my shit together. Like I'm ready to do this thing that I always said I would be ready to do.

0:32 I do remember when someone said confidence comes from keeping promises to yourself. I was like, Exactly. Fashion and Founders is your resource for breaking into fashion, leveling up your career, and building a breakthrough business. So let's get into this week's episode. Hi, Cass. Hi. Welcome to the podcast.

0:49 I'm so excited to chat with you. It was so nice going to your New York Fashion Week event the other day, meeting you in person for the first time. And you mentioned you hadn't done a podcast since really launching bags.

0:59 Yeah, I haven't spoken about handbags at all yet, which is kind of crazy. It's like been, it's we basically are just celebrating the one year anniversary now since launching. And I was reflecting uh yesterday. I was like, literally this time last year, I was in my hotel room during fashion week, you know, setting everything up behind the business, waiting for it to launch.

1:20 And I had so much anxiety.

1:21 I was literally in my whole, like, I didn't leave my hotel room because I was just so stressed, being like, I hope this goes well. That was when you first launched the bags.

1:28 Yeah, that was when we first launched the bags, and it's only been a year, and I'm so proud. It's it's crazy. I feel like it's a really hard category, category to crack. So the fact that we're doing it is very exciting.

1:40 And they're beautiful. I loved the zebra one. Yeah, that was my favorite. I'm excited. Yeah. Well, before we dive into where the business is now, I would love to start with your career in fashion. You were a buyer at one point. How did that lead you to being a founder? Like what was that kind of early stage of your career like?

1:58 Yeah. So I always knew I wanted to be a buyer. It was basically I knew I wanted to combine fashion and math together. So I thought that was going to be my long-term career for the rest of my life. And then once I started working, I think I kind of realized that there was more for me out there. There was also a lot of OG influencers.

2:19 I remember there was an article that came out and it was exposing how much they money they made. And I was like, I can do this. I am doing this. Like, this is crazy. And at first, I kind of started it because I wanted to have a cooler job in fashion. I was working for a department store and it wasn't the most fashion-bowered job, but obviously it was very much like an amazing experience.

2:41 And I was basically like, okay, I feel like if I show my outfits online, I could hopefully get a better job. I really wanted to work for Intermix or Shop Bop or Revolve. I wanted to be a buyer there.

2:52 Yeah.

2:53 So that's how it started. And then my outfits kind of started to, I was really consistent with it. I was working on it every single weekend. I was really passionate about it. And then it got to a place where I was making more money as a creator than my job. So I ended up quitting my job. And I also was doing a lot of product development for the department store.

3:13 So I knew I wanted to start a brand. And for some, this is not the only path. Obviously, everyone knows you can start a brand without having a following. But even back then, this was like 2017. So nine years ago. Crazy. When it was all so new. Even back then, I was like, if I started a personal brand, I feel like it's a much easier path to then launch a brand and have it be successful.

3:36 So that was always my plan. Like, okay, I'm gonna have my personal brand, then eventually launch a brand, and it will be a bit more seamless. But then I always tell the story of how at the time when I was, I think I was around two years into being a creator full-time. My husband was like, let's start a brand.

3:55 And I was like, Yeah, it was really him who pushed me. I have to give him the credit because I didn't think I was big enough. Like I didn't think I was like worthy enough. Yeah. I was like, I'm not there yet. Like I had like a like a great community, but it was smaller. And I knew they really trusted my opinion, but I didn't think that I don't know.

4:14 I felt like all the girls who had brands had like a million plus followers. Like they were really big. So that was what I thought was the barrier to entry of like I needed a mass following to be able to do it. But we ended up just trying it out and going for it. And I'm so happy we did. And the brand has obviously evolved so many different times and turned into something completely different now.

4:37 But that's how it kind of all started.

4:39 And I feel like that career path is starting to become more common where you have a corporate fashion job, but you have that entrepreneurial spirit. And it's like, I'm gonna go start my own platform and be a creator, and then they start a brand. And I like to say that the people who listen to the podcast are future guests because I think they're following that same path and they really look up to people like you.

4:59 Yeah.

5:00 So how is that transition? Because it's kind of scary to quit your job and like invest in yourself. I think like that comes with a lot of doubt, and then to invest in a business. So you kind of said like your husband really pushed you and you saw you're already making more money. But did you have any moments of like, I shouldn't have done that?

5:20 No, not really. I had I gave this advice to someone who is now doing very, very well, like even better than me, who she was talking to me about how she was like, I'm quitting my job and I could always go back. And, you know, but I feel feel like I should just do it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, we're not gonna have any of those thoughts.

5:40 Like, I didn't have a single day where I was like, I'm gonna go back, or I can maybe go back. I was like, I'm gonna make this happen. You know, I just had blinders on of just like full confidence in myself, and I never thought I would ever go back ever. I was like, I will work for myself for the rest of my life, I will figure it out and I will, this is gonna be successful.

6:03 So I think you kind of have to have that like totally Dululu brain, which I'm really good at having. And I think that's how you give yourself that push and that confidence. I also think I was young, I think I was 26. So I think that's not like super young, but it was an age where I was didn't have any major responsibilities, you know?

6:25 So I think I just kind of went for it. But I also think that you have to be able to take those risks in order to get to the next level. And I also have to give my dad props because he was also like, he was so pumped for me to be quitting my job. Like he was like, this is it. This is gonna be the your moment that you're gonna quit and like your life is gonna change and you're gonna like he was very supportive.

6:51 And I think a lot of parents, maybe especially at that time where an influencer was so new, would not have been supportive. Like when I met my husband for the first time, like he had never met an influencer, you know. Like he was like, What do you do? He was so confused. I had because I had quit my job a week before I met him.

7:10 No way.

7:11 And he was like introducing me to one of his like um guy friends who like works in fashion, was like, this girl's looking for a job. I was like, No, no, no, no, I'm not looking for a job. I have I'm making more money doing this online than I am at my job. And all of his friends were like so fascinated by me and my friends and the influencer world, and they were just like that, found it so interesting.

7:33 And then for Orion with the brand, we we kind of were just like, let's try it, you know. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. We didn't invest that much money into it. You know, we had maybe it was around 10, 20 grand. It wasn't a crazy amount of money. I feel like I want to encourage people that there is ways to start a brand without a lot of money.

7:53 You don't need to raise, like we've never raised for Orium. Everything is self-funded. You can kind of just see how it goes, see if you have product market fit, but you don't need to feel like you have to make it this giant thing. Like just take those little baby steps. Yeah.

8:09 That's great. You had such a support system, who is rooting for you?

8:12 Yeah, I think that anyone listening, I think that even if you don't have that support system around you, the greatest gift you could give yourself is to just believe in yourself and like work on yourself. I always tell the story too about how before Matt and I took the leap to start Orium, we wanted to just kind of be better people.

8:34 Like we were partying all the time. We were, you know, living our best life in our 20s. And then finally it came to a point we were like, all right, like we need to get our act together. And we started working out and journaling, and we just discovered the whole like wellness boom started to kind of happen, you know, at this time.

8:51 And we turned into completely different people. And I think that gave us the level up and the confidence to then feel like, okay, then now what's next after that? Like, okay, let's start a business together. I think there's if you don't feel like you have that confidence, maybe try to like put your energy into taking better care of yourself or taking, you know, like making your house clean every day.

9:15 I don't know, whatever it is, like channeling in into something that can like build your confidence up first. Then maybe once you build that confidence, you'll feel like, okay, I feel like I'm having my shit together. Like I'm ready to do this thing that I always said I would be ready to do.

9:30 I do remember when someone said confidence comes from keeping promises to yourself. I was like, Exactly.

9:36 Yeah, I know it's a hard one. I don't even do it, I'm not even that great at it. Like I go through, and every not everyone is perfect, right? Like I think I'm really happy I had that period of my life where I went all in on like self-development because even though I'm not operating at that level of consistency of doing like 20 things in the morning anymore, I can still revisit it when I feel myself falling off track, you know?

10:02 Like September reset. It's kind of the same idea. Like I'm like, I know, okay, I'm not feeling that mentally great right now. Like when I get home, maybe I should like write in my journal again in the morning for like a week and see if I it puts me back on track. Like it doesn't have to be this rigid thing where you're like consistently doing the exact same thing every day.

10:22 Like I have a problem with consistency. I'm like a little all over the place. So just having those tools to visit when I feel like I need it is really helpful.

10:31 This is actually something I was excited to ask you about. Because I remember listening to you on Grace Beverly's podcast and you mentioned this like get your shit together moment. And like you said, September for me is that moment. Yeah. Like I have what is it, four months left of the year. It's the last quarter.

10:48 Like, how do I end so strong? You mentioned some things that you did. I wonder if we can even just make like a short, quick little playbook for someone listening who's like, maybe I'm about to quit my job. Maybe I'm about to go all in on my content and like believe in myself, start that brand of like, what did you do at that stage that like made the biggest impact?

11:09 I would say there's a lot of things. So I'm gonna list a lot of things and don't feel like you need to do all of them. Just pick the ones that or try all of them and then you know, sit with yourself and figure out like which one feels good and feels like it's really helping you. I've done a lot of things over the years because I really do struggle with sometimes with focusing and like with I'm very driven, but I'm also very like relaxed.

11:34 So I need a lot of tools. So I would say the five-minute journal, like the gratitude journal, that's very helpful. Do you know what that is? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I feel like everyone kind of knows what it is. But sometimes I'll post it and people be like, what is that?

11:46 And you could just do that on your own journal. Like, you don't need to buy it.

11:48 Yeah, you don't need to buy that. You can even put into chat GBT. Like, I actually put into chat the other day, give me a workbook of things, something I should fill out to like do a little bit of self-reflection for the rest of the year. Yeah, it could be something as simple as that. But so I would say the journal, I would say working out is a big one for me.

12:10 If I don't start my morning, you know, moving my body and like doing something, meditating is a great one. I think going for walks, listening to a podcast is another great one. I've also talked about how I have this recording. I actually need to update it. I'm like due for an update. It's a little, it's two years old now.

12:29 I recorded an audio of myself saying affirmations of like what I needed to hear for myself and then put it over meditation music. And sometimes when I'm like getting ready, I'll listen to it in the morning. And the great thing about that is it could be so personal, like make it really specific of just like whatever it is you feel like you need to hear.

12:53 I would be like, people want to wear my brand. Like, I have great intentions, like whatever really speaks to you, you can then put it in your own words. Or, but that also comes from like listening to a lot of meditations where you're like, I kind of don't want to hear someone else. I kind of want to hear like my specific things.

13:10 And I also used to put like affirmations in my five-minute journal. Like I would write them down and have it in the cover, and then I would just read them in the morning. Like after I did my pages, I would read, you know, like the things that I felt like I needed to hear. But it's just like trial and error.

13:27 And I also think I still love like a good vision board. Yeah. You know, like I think it's I feel like as I've my life has changed so much in the past 10 years that sometimes I'm like, it's kind of good to revisit some of those like material things that you want, you know. Like I think even though it's not about the thing, like the car or the house or whatever, I think it is something that like excites you, you know.

13:56 If you like look at a photo on your background of a house that's like so sick, you're like, okay, I need to make more money. Like, let's go, you know? So I think there's so many different things. I just rattled off like 20 different things, but I love these. Just figuring out like what speaks to you and try all of them or try whatever you think like interests you and have them in your back pocket for when you feel like you're need a little reset.

14:22 I love the affirmation one to listen to because especially if it's uncomfortable to say it for the first time, if like people want to listen to my podcast or like I add value, it's like you need to sit with that to like become more confident in it, you know? So yeah, for sure. I love that tip.

14:39 Even for me, like I have been doing this for so long, I still get so insecure about I'm like, does anyone care about me? You know, like does anyone want to be following me? Yeah, I I feel like I'm still very like grounded, but also like it's it's so easy to get insecure nowadays, like with how much is going on in the world and online that and comparing yourself to everybody that I feel like you need to have certain things you do to like feel good and keep going.

15:09 Yeah, and I think it's almost like nice to hear that if someone else who's a smaller brand or starting out or smaller following it knows that like someone like you is feeling that way too, it's like I'm good.

15:21 Yeah, yeah. It's like a normal feeling, it's a normal thing. Yeah, I think I think the only people that don't feel like that are people that are like literally narcissistic. Yeah. Which is actually a lot of people, but you know, I think that's just like a total normal feeling that means you have like good intention and what you're doing is like you care, you're on the right path because you like want to be the best that you can be.

15:41 Yeah. Okay. I love hearing this like playbook for people. And I think people like will really take this advice and use it to really level up themselves and their business for going into next year. I need to share what is, in my opinion, one of the most, if you know, you know communities in fashion right now.

15:58 It's called The Nest, and it's hosted by Swap Commerce, a fashion tech company working with some of the biggest names in fashion. I've been to several of their events now, and they're genuinely some of the most beautifully curated, intimate fashion events I've been to. And at these events, I've met founders, executives, and people across the industry in rooms where you can actually connect with each other.

16:18 After attending a few of their events, I ended up partnering with Swap during tech week for a fashion tech panel and breakfast. There were brands like Rothys, Retrofet, and Contessa Mills in the room. And the thing I love about the Nest is that there's no pitching. You're not sitting through a sales presentation.

16:34 It's genuinely about bringing interesting people in fashion together. And I think that's representative of how Swap approaches technology. I talked to so many fashion founders who are constantly being sold new tools that they don't understand or they're worried how AI is going to replace the parts of their business they genuinely love.

16:52 Swap is focused on the opposite. They build technology around the messy, unglamorous parts of running and scaling a fashion business from returns, international selling to using AI to create a better online shopping experience so you can spend more time doing the things you love, like design, editorial, and adding that human touch.

17:10 So if you're a fashion founder, executive, or work in the space, I highly recommend looking into the nest. You can express interest on Swap's website. And if you're a fit, they'll start inviting you to some of their events around the world. Yeah. But I want to get into how you first started, Orium, and how you figured out how to do all these steps.

17:32 Like it's a lot. Designing, manufacturing, getting samples, getting to a final product, building a website. Like, did you learn all of this for the first time and just like trial and error?

17:43 Yeah, just like figure it out. I think when it came to manufacturers, we just did a lot of Googling and sampling. Obviously, we've launched different categories along the way. So all the different categories have been kind of like different experiences, different steps. But I think I love being able to control the manufacturing side of things.

18:05 Like I think behind the scenes, a lot of people use partners or agencies. And that's definitely a path that you can go is trying to find a partner or working with an agency to be like the middle person to find your manufacturers. But my husband and I have always been very adamant about owning our own relationship with our manufacturer.

18:23 And I think that's something that's really helped us because that relationship as a small business when you're self-funding is extremely important because if they like you, they'll something sells and it clicks. Like being able to restock that as fast as possible is a huge advantage. So I think having that direct relationship of also just being able to know the quality of what's going on can really like make or break your business, in my opinion.

18:55 I think for us, product has always been like the center of everything we do. Like, I don't consider myself a marketing expert by any means. I feel like we don't even really do like marketing. I don't know. Like we do, but I don't, we don't do any like gimmicky things to like get people's attention. We literally get people's attention because people are like, wow, this is amazing.

19:15 You know, I love the product, I love the bag, it's such amazing quality. And then they tell their friends, and like that is the best marketing you can have. It's also free when someone just is like loves it so much that they tell the people around them about it. So product and like product development has always been our best, what we put our the most energy into.

19:33 I think that's really good to also hear that you've figured it out yourself, right? Yeah, you know, like it's so many questions, I think.

19:40 At the there's Google, there's chat. Yeah. It's like there's so many resources. It's like it's not that intimidating. You can really just type in blah, blah, blah, manufacture. You know, like, and I think it's also helpful if you want to figure out like where you want to make something, like maybe try to research if there's something that's like somewhat similar of where they produce said thing, like which country, then you also have like a little bit more of a better starting point.

20:04 Like, obviously, for leather, I knew I wanted to go to Italy. So finding manufacturers in Italy narrows down at least to that country, and figuring out like the region that a lot of things happen in can be helpful. So it's like it's it's really not that hard. I feel like that's like a question I get asked a lot.

20:21 It's like, how do I find a manufacturer? And it's like, if you find that to be the limit, you're gonna have a tough time because there's gonna be way harder challenges than that. Something as easy as being able to Google for a manufacturer is is pretty straightforward. And you have to, it's a numbers game.

20:39 You really have to reach out to a lot, like send an email to a lot of different ones, and probably one will respond, you know?

20:46 So that's a lot of things though.

20:48unknown Yeah.

20:49 Starting out. Your brand did something really interesting where you started with jewelry, but you made the decision to stop jewelry. Was that hard? Because it was kind of what got you to where you are now to kind of shut down that product.

21:04 No, I'm I'm like so happy about it. We like talk about it all the time. We're like, remember when we sold jewelry? Yikes. Uh really like we jewelry, it was is a easy, not easy, but it's an easier entry to enter that category. When I started Orium, I felt like there was a white space for jewelry, and that was why I started it.

21:23 And there wasn't as many jewelry brands. Now there are literally one billion jewelry brands, and it was just a category that I first of all, we also followed the customer, right? Our once we launched sunglasses and belts, like the belts was just outsized everything by a lot. So it was like, oh wow, people are loving the belts.

21:46 Like we were basically a belt brand for like a year or two, and then jewelry sales just started to be a less percentage of the business. And we had over the years, we had so many different manufacturers for jewelry. Like I've tried every country. Every reputable manufacturer, like we have tried, and no matter what, there is always issues.

22:07 Like backs of the earring breaks, like it's plated, so it's eventually gonna tarnish. I have a lot of customers that still wear our jewelry and it looks perfect and amazing, but then certain people that had bad experiences. So for us, the reason why we, the main reason why we wanted to get rid of that category was we had launched handbags, we had our belts, we had close to zero customer complaints about our handbags and belts, and the jewelry was just a little bit more finicky.

22:37 Like we would have customer service issues with it. And we were like, we need to remove this category because if someone buys an earring from us, has a bad experience, they're not gonna trust us to buy a handbag, even though our handbag is a completely different thing, you know? So that decision was really easy because A, the sales were much smaller than the other categories, and B, people were having bad experiences.

23:00 So I didn't want to tarnish the brand's reputation. And another reason was also our jewelry would get duped so fast. Like I've seen a bunch, and it was really frustrating. I was like, is our manufacturer like selling our designs to like I don't know. So I'm I'm like, maybe something weird was going on behind the scenes, but we would I would design a collection, launch a collection, and buy and like a month later it would be on Amazon for like $5.

23:26 And I was like, what the heck is going on? And I think jewelry is a little bit more finicky with we would make our jewelry in materials that were much more expensive to create them in, but I think the average person didn't understand what the difference was between the $5 Amazon version and like a gold verme.

23:45 Like from the outside, it's harder to see that quality. Whereas I feel like for handbags, leather, you cannot cheat. Yeah crappy leather. It looks so bad. So I think that was another reason. Like there was just a laundry list of reasons. So I'm like so happy to not be doing jewelry anymore. I get messages every day though of girls being like, When are you bringing back jewelry?

24:04 And I'm like, sorry guys, it's not happening.

24:06 It's not coming back. Yeah, but I think it's so interesting, like having like your first product, like deciding to discontinue it and really dive into something else. Yeah.

24:16 So I think you just follow what's selling, right? It's really that simple of like, if if all of our customers are loving our leather goods more, like, okay, we're gonna be a leather goods brand, like and just pivoting and not having. I think like the ethos of the brand has always stayed the same in terms of like the art of accessorizing and dress simply and elevate with our accessories.

24:36 So the ethos has stayed there. It's just like the category has changed a little bit.

24:40 And so bags launched a year ago. How long in the making was that launch?

24:46 Handbags has been a is been an intense process of like product development. I would say it took us months to get an a man a good manufacturer to even respond to us. Like we even had our belt manufacturer like speaking in Italian, trying to call other Italian handbag manufacturers to like convince them.

25:06 So it was actually hard. It was a hard entry. And then once we finally started working with someone, I would say uh it was like December, January, and then we launched in September. But in September, we only launched one bag because the other bags weren't ready yet, but we wanted to just launch. So the product development for that was like a year around, like the little cast clutch, we launched that in December.

25:30 So it was like basically a full year of me designing everything and starting the sampling process to launching it.

25:36 Has that changed other parts of the business having like really diving into the the bags and more of the belts? I mean, I think the New York Fashion Meek presentation was only the bags, yeah.

25:47 Right. Yeah. I mean, we so now we only sell belts and handbags, and we're kind of trying to be like an Italian leather house. And already handbags are more than like 50% of our business already. So we're kind of trying to go all in on handbags. I think it's just it's such a fun category. I love it. Like designing the bags is really fun, and I think it's an interesting time right now with so much talk around people being so over their designer bags and logos and the quality diminishing from so many of these big brands that I think it was like the perfect timing, which I knew.

26:22 That's why I wanted to get into handbags. So I think we are like hitting the category at like the perfect time right now, and we sit in a price point that's very unique where there's not that many people in trying to be in that price point.

26:36 Are there categories that you want to launch into?

26:39 I mean, I have always said that I do wish I did clothing. More so like from my personal brand perspective, but clothing is like a whole other animal.

26:51 Yeah.

26:51 Like if anything, I feel like it would be a completely different brand. But yeah, there was one point where I was like, okay, I feel like Orium should be like a full lifestyle, like a full fashion brand. But now I kind of think it's nice to be like a little bit more specific. I have different answers for this literally every year.

27:08 So I feel like I it it always is we just kind of like let the brand go where the customer is dictating it with a mix of me feeling like what's missing, you know. Like after the belts, I was like, okay, handbags is I feel like there's a need in the handbag space. Like, I don't want something that's under a thousand dollars, but I don't want to pay like $10,000 for a Birkin.

27:32 Everybody has one, it's not cool anymore. So I felt like I there was a gap, and maybe I'll find another gap in another category in a year. Like you never know. So I never want to like pigeonhole what we could be.

27:47 Would you consider yourself a creator-led brand?

27:50 So this is like really hard. Like we definitely are, but I think most of our customers don't know I exist. And like our customer is definitely changing. I we also intentionally no longer put I'm never showing up on Orium really anymore, unless it's just like from a very much a founder perspective. Like I do these art of design videos where I like speak through my thought process for designing everything, but we have very intentionally like no longer have me be the face of campaign.

28:20 Like I used to be the face of every campaign, and now I like I haven't been in a few years. So we're very intentionally trying to like not look like an influencer brand. Yeah, but like we are, you know. I am I started as an influencer before I started Orium, but yeah, I feel like, especially now that we have a higher price point and it's a luxury item.

28:41 I think the more and more we're like, we need to make sure it doesn't look like an influencer brand at all.

28:46 I don't think I would consider it an influencer brand.

28:49 Yeah.

28:49unknown Yeah.

28:50 I'm not just like saying that or that it's like a bad thing, but I think the perception of it, it changes for people. I don't know. For sure.

28:57 I we real definitely try to detach it.

29:00 Yeah.

29:00 And we definitely intentionally have always made it not centered on the internet.

29:03 And your name's not in it.

29:05 My name's not in it. Like I, yeah, I'm not on the forefront of everything we do for Orium. So I think that's I think it's a good thing. I don't, I don't want that pressure. I don't want like if I get canceled. I mean, I don't, I'm not really like that much, you know, showing that much of my personality online, but I think there is a risk.

29:25 Like I a lot of girls are getting like taken down. It's kind of scary. Like, yeah, that terrifies me. So we've always wanted to build it very separately.

29:33 That's something that, like, I mean, not that I'm like anywhere nearly as big either, but like the to get canceled online is so frightening.

29:41 Yeah, I know it's scary.

29:42 And it's just women attacking other women, which is the saddest part of the thing. It's always women, yeah. I know there's obviously pros and cons to having the creator side first. I don't know if people use it to like almost dismiss some of the success. If you felt that I find it inspiring that like you built up your own brand and proved you can work for yourself and then found the white space of what people wanted.

30:05 Like it's kind of the way businesses are going now.

30:07 I never really wanted it to be like, okay, buy this thing because you're a fan of me. Yeah. Because I don't think that has longevity. Like you want to buy a product because you love the product, not just because you think I'm cool. You know, like I think those brands are obviously very, there's a lot of brands like that that are very successful.

30:25 And I I think that's like definitely a strategy, but I think as I've gotten older, that's not how I shop. Like I buy things because I really enjoy them, not like I think it's nice to know who is behind them and know that there's like a soul to the brand, but I'm not just buying something just because I like someone's personality, you know?

30:45 Yeah.

30:46 There's like a lot of layers to it.

30:48 Has being a creator impacted the way you said you don't do that much marketing, but I'm sure you do like obviously there's social media campaigns, gifting, I'm sure. Like being on the other side of it, has that changed how you do it compared to probably another accessories brand?

31:02 I think that we're very lucky in the sense that like we are able to easily have people wear our bags without having to pay them or do anything. Like, I think sometimes I think half of it has to do with people like me and want to support me and they're nice, but I think a lot of it has to do with the just like they love the bag, you know?

31:25 So I think it just all goes back to a great product because at the end of the day, like someone isn't gonna just blindly support me by like posting our bags just because they like me. They like it's their page, so they want to be able to promote what they think is actually great.

31:42 Do you feel like you know something almost about approaching social media to get the product out there because you were creator first?

31:50 Yeah, for sure. I think don't annoy people. Like, what does that look like? Like, I really don't like when someone gifts me and they're like, hi, did you get it? Hi, what are you thinking? Like, I'm like, okay, I am so busy. And just because I accepted X thing doesn't mean I'm gonna have time to post it like that week, you know, you're not paying me.

32:10 Okay. So I think as I have a lot of like grace for people who are, you know, bigger creators who I know how it works, and I'm we're not like annoying them to be like, hi, did you get it? That's one thing, but I think maybe not everyone's like that, but I think I find that annoying. What else? I would say it's definitely like a rip ripple effect of like once one cool person has it on, like then all of a sudden you have a million other influencers like asking you for gifting.

32:38 And especially with handbags and the price point that we're at right now, we're very strict about like who we gift because it's a high price point and not everyone can convert for like a $1,500 bag.

32:49 Yeah.

32:50 And actually, most influencers can't convert for a $1,500 bag. So I think we have to be very specific about like the creator and like, do they post a lot of other luxury things? Do they, you know, does it make sense for them to be wearing that price point of a bag? Are most of their other bags more expensive than ours, you know?

33:09 So there's definitely a science to it, but it depends on your category. I would, I would say. Like definitely. I think we're a lot of the standard advice that I hear applies for not luxury. Like luxury is just its own ball game of how people think. And I'm a luxury consumer. So I kind of think to myself, I'm like, what turns me off?

33:31 You know what I mean? Like, we would never do something where we send 20 creators the same day and unboxing and have them all unbox something on the same day. Like that literally makes me not like a handbag. That makes me think it's not cool. So I think it's like being always putting yourself as the consumer is how we make a lot of decisions of like, oh, that's kind of how I would do things for me.

33:54 So let's apply it there, you know.

33:56 Was it hard to transition the business to a higher price point? Because obviously, jewelry is a access more accessible. For sure. Like maybe your consumer started making more money as the Yeah, I think I think that actually is true.

34:09 Our customer is definitely older. We're definitely seeing a much different customer for our handbags, like even she's definitely an older woman. And most of our customers come in and buy like multiple bags at once. So our customer definitely isn't someone who's price sensitive. Like Matt and I are like, I feel like we should come out with even more expensive things because it seems like there's no price resistance.

34:32 I think it's just like a different buying behavior. And in terms of like having the audacity to just like, you know, start selling bags at this price point. I think I think it came from the confidence of like knowing the product and how it's made and what it's made out of and what it actually costs to make the item.

34:52 So we were kind of just like, this is what it costs. So this is what we have to charge, and we'll see what happens, you know? So it's always come from like a lot of businesses work where they're like, okay, I want to be $700 and I'm gonna work backwards to make a product that can hit the $700 price point.

35:09 We kind of do everything the complete opposite, which is probably not I like you knowing from working in a department store, that's not how you would typically run a business. But we run our business the opposite where we like design, make things that we love, and then charge what we need to charge.

35:24 And you're selling them.

35:25 And we're selling them. So it's great, but because I didn't want to like, like, for example, I think I've told the story before, but like the clutch, like the zebra clutch, we have it in like leathers as well. When I first started developing that handbag, I was like, okay, let's try to get a handbag to be under $1,000.

35:41 Cause I think it would be nice to like do more volume in it. Let's sample it. Let's see. We sample it. It was so I didn't like it. I was like, Yeah, I like compared to our cast clutch, this looks like shit. Like, why would I launch something under the same brand that is of less quality? You know, it doesn't make sense.

35:57 So, and I kind of like pulled, not pulled, but I but did a story on this. Everyone replied, being like, I'd rather it just be made correctly and all those little details that make it a luxury item be there instead of them be missing. Cause it's like, why? You know? So that's why we ended up making the clutch the same exact quality as the cast clutch and you know, having the interior leather, like all these little things that go into it.

36:21 And that was why we worked from the product to the price versus the price down to the product. I think that's so smart.

36:28 And I love hearing about this because I think on social media it's kind of unpopular to not be like, we're an accessible brand. Like we lowered our prices and like this is for everyone. Like it's kind of unpopular to be like, this might not be for real. Totally.

36:44 And I think that like we've really had to lean into that. But it's it's interesting because I well, a few things come to mind around that discussion. But like when we first started the brand, the jewelry was like a hundred to two hundred dollars. So to be very try transparent about like knowing everything about the industry, the margins on the products that people are selling in the hundred to price range are actually way crazier.

37:13 Usually like really high, really high margins. Like it's really, really mass-produced products. Like you're doing so much volume, and a lot of times it's like your margins are actually so high.

37:26 Yeah.

37:26 And for us, our margins are actually just like very normal because we're like everything's literally handmade and we're not, it's like not mass-produced. We're only making certain amount of quantity of every single color so that it feels special, and there's a lot of like science to it. So I think that's also important to not feel like you do need to be for everybody, you know, like every brand can't be for everybody.

37:52 And I almost think I'm happier that I'm not for everybody because if you're speaking like a lot of people always say, if you're talking to everybody, you're talking to no one. So I'd rather talk to that girl that is similar to me and like really values how things are made, where things are made, what they look like, the quality when she holds it.

38:11 Does she like feel like it's something special? I also don't want to be just like creating a mass amount of things just to like cash grab, just to like have a business, you know. I I feel like I consider myself more of like an artist than I do a founder. I like connect, I try to connect more to like the feminine of running a business and like creativity and design.

38:30 And I like to like think of myself more as an artist than I do like a businesswoman, you know?

38:37 And I think it almost speaks to like this fake democratization of fashion where dupe culture is like, well, I should be able to buy anything, not everything has to be for me, and I don't need to find the fake dupe version of it. Like I think it's very strange and it's made us feel like entitled to every product that comes out.

38:58 And instead of finding like a secondhand version, or like if you love it, like handcrafted, I think we now feel entitled for brands to make it at a price point that like feels right to us, and it's kind of about us rather than like, do I actually need this product? The answer is probably no. And if you can afford it, like that's amazing.

39:19 Yeah, like you shouldn't feel bad about that.

39:20 So I think I'm kind of removed from that because I'm so not Gen Z. Like, I don't think I have much of a Gen Z audience, and our customer is probably not Gen Z. So I think I'm never really getting that feedback because like most of my audience is older than me. So like that's not something that it ever no one even is even like DMing me complaining about that.

39:40 You know what I mean? Like I've never gotten a DM from some, like I actually used to get a lot more DMs when we were like almost mid affordable, like in the like 300 price range, where people would be like, I really want to support you, but like I can't afford it, you know? Yeah, but now I don't get that at all.

39:57 And I think that's maybe because it's like so expensive that you're either like able to like yeah, like, but I I think that you shouldn't be afraid to charge what you need to charge. Like Matt and I have struggled with this so many times over the years, like, even when we first launched the bags, almost everybody gave us the advice of like, you need to be under a thousand dollars.

40:16 Like, you're not a luxury brand, you know. Like, and we were like, okay, should we just take a margin hit and like just charge not what we should be charging and like kind of almost lose money for a little bit until we can prove ourselves? And then I'm so happy we made the decision to launch at a price point that we needed to be at.

40:36 And we always are raising our prices. Like, I have no shame in saying that. Like, we when we first launched the bags, we priced them at a point that was too low. Like it wasn't a healthy margin to be at. And then once we were like, okay, people like love the bags, we like slowly inched it up. And a lot of brands do do that.

40:54 Like a lot of luxury brands and a lot of brands in general, like each year they're raising their prices, like cost of goods changed, or if you're testing a category, you want to maybe like see if it works or see what people's reactions are. Like every day I look at the bags and I'm like, we should be charging more for these.

41:10 They're so good. But like, I we would never like just charge more just to charge more. But I think it's like when you're running a business, you need that margin to be able to survive. It's it, there's so many costs and so it's so expensive that you need to not be afraid to like exclude people if it if it's what your price point needs to be, you know.

41:32 Like I also think there's psychology around, okay, if you buy something that's like five dollars, you're gonna treat it differently than if you saved all your money and like treated yourself to this like $1,500 thing or $300 thing or whatever it is. You like treat it differently, like you like cherish it more and you like think it's better.

41:53 Like it it's a different experience and it's a different like mentality around. I also I'm sorry, I have such bad ADHD, but I also feel like the another thing for me, I've as I've learned as I've gotten older, and which I think like younger people are really starting to catch on to is if you buy a million crappy things that are all affordable, quote unquote, or like a hundred dollars, chances of you having those things like a year from now is very slim.

42:24 So I think as you get older, you just naturally go through that experience of like buying things and realizing, oh my God, I like this was like such a waste of money. It fell apart. Like I don't even like it anymore. It was like so last year of the it was like such a thing of the moment. So designing products that are like timeless that you can have in your closet forever, yeah, maybe they're more expensive in the in the short term, but in the long term, they're not because you're getting more use out of them.

42:51 They're still, they still look great like 10 years from now. I think that's like something that younger, like I witnessed myself, and that was kind of like a realization for me about fashion is like buy vintage or buy, you know, you can buy higher price point things.

43:08 There's a way to buy higher price point things without having to like no completely like quality over. I feel like people there's some saying about that of like the cheap thing ends up costing you more than what you're doing.

43:19 Yeah, like buy yes, I know what you're talking about.

43:21 It's like something like that.

43:23 Yeah, it's more expensive to buy cheap things, basically.

43:26 And I think the conversation around like charging what the product is worth and like creating something great and then setting the price from there can almost apply to other things in business. And I just feel like women, especially, and like me being younger too, it can be kind of scary to like name what you think your fair prices and people push back, and you're like, Oh, okay, well, maybe it's not worth that, you know.

43:49 And I maybe you had experience with that being a creator of setting up me for your work there. Like, do you think that helped you in negotiations or understanding your value?

43:59 I still think I like. Try to always approach things from like a fair point of view. Like, even as a creator, I still do things for like under what my value is probably would be. And like sometimes I think about it and I'm like, should I be like having a hard stance around like I will not post any collabs for under this amount of money?

44:18 But like I don't really operate like that. I still feel like I kind of have things charged all over the board for things. Like influencing is still such a like interesting industry where, like, one minute I'll do a collab for you know one number and then another day it's like something so different.

44:35 Yeah.

44:36 So, but I also think it's like supply and demand. If you're a creator and you feel like you're getting a lot of collabs, like maybe you're and you're kind of overwhelmed. Maybe you're like, okay, say to your manager or many if you're managing yourself, like I feel like I can be charging more right now.

44:51 Like people are clearly all wanting to work with me. Like, let's try to up my rate and see if what the feedback is, you know. I think just never being afraid to like grab more for yourself, you know. I think as women, it sometimes we are like more like reserved and we just want to be like nice. And sometimes you gotta have like a little bit of audacity to just be like, you know, I want to make more money.

45:19 I'm gonna need to charge more. So let's do it and see what happens.

45:24 That's something I've gotten better at the past couple of years too. And like, not just creators, but like photographers or artists or freelancers or whatever it is, like talking about how much we're all charging and then realizing we should be doing more and like we're almost like undervaluing ourselves, not in like an unfair way, but like you sometimes need someone else to be like, you should be charging double.

45:47 Like your work is so good.

45:49 So I think I say that to people all the time. Like, you want to kind of like maybe return the favor of like if you're working with someone and you're like, I feel like whenever I'm working with photographers or just uh random people, like the girl who blows out my hair at my house, you know. I'm always like, you should be doing this and then this.

46:06 Like, I feel like I naturally am always like giving people business advice. So if you're that person, I think it's also good to like give out that advice so that maybe it will come back to you too, you know? Yeah, I just love when like women make more money. Yeah, of course. I mean, life is expensive and things are expensive.

46:25 So, you know, it money money talks for sure. You need to be able to like feel comfortable and secure and go after all the things that you want.

46:35 You're an investor in ShopMai, right? Yes, yes. I'd love to talk about that piece of the money.

46:40 Yeah. That was like that was actually my first time investing in advising for a company. And I feel like I've got so spoiled because they're literally a unicorn company. And I I'm always saying to my husband, I'm like, how do we get more unicorns? Like, I'm like, I just want to invest in some more unicorns.

46:58 That would be great. But yeah, honestly, how that came about was we were using the platform for Orium. I wasn't on it as a creator, and they wanted to set up a call to get our two cents about the platform. And I was literally like, I will use the platform and talk to them if they let me invest.

47:16 Really? So you like pitched them to invest? Yes.

47:18 Yes. I knew like my power at the time. And I was like, I'm influential, you know? I have a lot of friends in the industry. I work with every single brand in the industry. And I actually went to town when I signed on with them. Like, I emailed every brand on the planet that I ever worked with, being like, we use this platform for Orium.

47:38 It's really helped us scale. Would you be interested in joining? Blah, blah, blah. And then I was also sending the same kind of pitch to creators. So I actually did a lot of work of like trying to get people on the platform. But they're obviously like an amazing business and they were like very established.

47:55 Like it wasn't had anything to do with me, really. But like I think I would love to be, I think that's kind of where I see myself going next is maybe like investing in more things and advising in more things. Cause I do really like, I do enjoy it. So it's just figuring out what I think. I maybe need to do a better job of when I love something.

48:15 If someone sends me something and I know they're a type of company that they are raising, like asking. Yeah. You know, you're not not everything is gonna just fall into your lap. Sometimes you need to like make it happen and ask. And if they say no, great, but at least you tried.

48:28 I find it so interesting, the creator investors too, and that like equity piece of it and treating that product like an owner and not just a consumer.

48:37 Yeah, there's a lot of like nuance to it. Like, luckily, my husband used to work in finance, so he really understands that piece of that. That's definitely something it that's a goal of mine this year, is to become more knowledgeable about investing and all of that. Cause I still feel like I don't fully understand everything.

48:57 Cause like my husband will explain to me, well, okay, you only get paid out if they go public. There's a lot to it that I think it's not just being like, oh, I'm an investor. I own like part of this company. It's like understanding when you would ever see your money back. Like, there's a lot more to it.

49:10 So I think that's something I want to start educating myself more about and not feel so intimidated to not get into that world. I think I kind of like rely, set like automatically kind of let my husband do those types of things. And I'm starting to realize, you know who it is? One of the Nader sisters.

49:29 She posts a lot about like financial advice.

49:31 Yeah.

49:32 I just she said something where she was like, women are better investors.

49:35 And the way she takes stats around she was explaining it, and I was like, wait, that is so true.

49:40 Like all those things you just listed are things I can confidently say I am better at than my husband. And he's an amazing investor. So I'm like, hmm, maybe I should get into this. Like, that's I feel like where I want to kind of go next is like learning more about that, not being intimidated by it, and not for anyone that's like older and married, not just being like, Oh, my husband will do those things, you know.

50:01 Like, I feel like I want to take more ownership as a woman and understanding more of like that world.

50:07 Yeah, totally. Someone I love to follow to learn more about investing is Maggie Sellers. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course.

50:12 She was at the event. I'm gonna, I I love her. I've known Maggie for a long time. She does an amazing job at and really breaks it down, I think.

50:20 Sure. Yeah.

50:21 Yeah. Yeah, it's really nice.

50:22 Okay. My last question before we get into speed round is I always get asked about like hiring and almost like putting yourself back into the shoes of when you were a buyer looking for your job in fashion. Maybe someone wants to work at Orium, maybe someone wants to work in fashion. Like, are there things that you look at now as a founder?

50:41 Like, that's the hire.

50:43 I would say like all of our past employees have been interesting situations. Like one of our employees, for example, came to a pop-up and was like, Hi, I do XYZ and like introduced herself and then introduced herself to Matt. And we ended up hiring her. And then another employee, Nicole, who you met, um, she sent me the most absurd PowerPoint I've ever received in my life.

51:11 It was like 30 something pages of just like ideas.

51:14 Oh, wow.

51:15 And it was, it was a little like I was literally, I was like, okay, I have to hire this girl. Like she's so passionate and so just proving herself went so above and beyond that I was like, okay, you know, I almost think that it's there's so much noise that you have to do something really extravagant to like get someone's attention, having like that personal connection, or if you can like have someone else intro you, like, oh, this person recommended me, like having some sort of connection helps.

51:46 I don't know. I like nowadays every brand is doing pop-ups, like show up to the pop-up and try to like make conversation, you know. Those were my best tips, I would say.

51:54 Yeah, those are good. Do you think you approach collaborations in a similar way? Because I know you did a partnership with Park and Ring Concierge. Like, do those just come about naturally?

52:04 That was really natural. Like Chelsea lives in Miami and we're friends. Oh, yeah. And we were like, let's do this together, it'll be fun. Um, all of the partnerships have kind of been like more just like personal relationships that are fun. Ring concierge was like, we felt like because we stopped doing jewelry, it would be really cool to do jewelry again.

52:21 And I we had a lot of overlap in customers, so that felt like a good fit. And then park was like the polar opposite where we were like, we have completely different customers, like let's do something together and see if it works. So, yeah, those collaborations are very just like genuine of just being out and about and friendly and nice and outgoing.

52:41 And it's crazy the opportunities that can come your way when you're like networking, you know?

52:47 Cause I feel like collaborations are such a bigger thing now, and people wonder how they can get into collaborations, but I don't think it's really just a hard pitch and it's gonna happen. It's no, it takes time to build that relationship to trust someone with like your brand name on their brand name.

53:03 Like, yeah, it's hard. I kind of like every time we I it would always give me anxiety doing them because like I don't think we will probably do one for like a while because we're just kind of like it's also hard. There's we're in a weird space right now where we're like a luxury brand, but we're also kind of like warm and inviting.

53:22 We're not like the type of luxury brand that like only would do things with like super chic, crazy things, you know? So, but then at the same time, now that our price point's so high, I feel like there's not that many other brands that are founder, like creator led that I could do something with. So it's interesting, but yeah, all of them have come very naturally, like pitching someone to do a unless you're a giant brand that someone would be like so pumped to receive that email, it's really hard to cut through the noise.

53:52 I agree. Okay, I have some speedrun questions for you. Okay, what is your fashion hot take?

53:59 A hot take, hmm. Okay, you know what I'm so not into right now is plaid. Really? Like, I think because I've lived through a period of time when I was in my 20s of like everyone was wearing plaid shirts, now I'm like, ew, I really don't like this. I see people tying them like around their waist. I know, I know.

54:19 I I like it on people, but like I will not be participating, but I like it on other people.

54:24 Okay, is there a fashion and just maybe just in general founder misconception?

54:30 I think there's like maybe a misconception that people are kind of maybe just doing like a money grab. I don't know. I think and they want to just kind of like start a business to start a business. Like, I feel like there's so many people who are kind of just think entrepreneurship is like glamorous and cool and like a cool title to have, but I think not everybody thinks like that.

54:52 And some people are like doing have a huge why behind why they're building something.

54:57 Do you have a resource recommendation for people? Maybe like a book, a podcast.

55:01 I really love Emma Greed. Like I think her podcast is amazing. I have her book. I kind of like started reading that. I really want to do, I've had it and I haven't done it. So this is like me being a hypocrite, but I really want to do the artist's way. You know, Diana Cohen from Crack Affair, she talks about it a lot, and I am dying to do that.

55:21 Maybe I'll do that when I get back from Fashion Week. I think that's reset.

55:25 Yeah.

55:25 Like a good reset to try.

55:27 That's super cool. And then do you have any upcoming announcements for you?

55:31 No, honestly. I think we're just like, I'm really have my head down in more product development for the handbags, like coming out with more styles. Like, I feel like we need to like build out the assortment, and and that's kind of like where my focus is for the next year at least. Yeah. And where can everyone find you?

55:47 Everyone can find me at Cast Miko. And the brand is Orium.collective.

55:53 Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. I've listened to you on other podcasts as like I just love business, fashion, founder podcasts. So it's such an honor to be able to like ask you my questions too. Oh, it's great. So I hope everyone enjoys as much as I did.

56:09 Yeah, for sure. I think you're doing an amazing job with like getting very like tangible tips. You know, sometimes I listen to a podcast and I'm I'm in feel inspired, but I didn't take anything away in terms of tips. So I hope I gave some good actual tips today.

56:23 Hopefully, I need to do your manifestations.

56:25 Yeah. That was a good one. Yeah, thank you.