The Unspoken Rules of Working with Luxury Fashion Brands with Kate Bartlett

0:00 I think when it comes to building relationships with brands, you cannot expect to be invited to something if you are not purchasing the brand, you're not talking about the brand throughout the year, not just when Fashion Week is rolling around. When it comes to, you know, really building a relationship with a brand, it's a two-week street and loyalty goes a long way.

0:20 Fashion and Founders is your resource for breaking into fashion, leveling up your career, and building a breakthrough business. So let's get into this week's episode. Hi, Kate. Hello. I am so excited to have you on. And I didn't tell you this when I reached out, but when I started the podcast, I made a list of dream guests and you are one of them.

0:47 I can't wait. And that was because I think you have a start that a lot of people can see themselves in, and where you've gone is also so inspiring. So I really hope that we can share so much of your knowledge with everyone listening today.

1:00 Oh, well, thank you so much.

1:02 So I want to start with your beginning in fashion. What was your first job? Maybe your first blog post? How did it start?

1:09 Yeah. So my first job, I feel like I have been working ever since I was probably like 12 or 13 years old. I grew up in Orlando, Florida. And there's not really a lot of fashion going on there. So I grew up wanting to get into like commercial acting. So that's kind of where I started. I would do commercials for like roller coasters.

1:31 And that was kind of my first experience having a job where I was earning an income. But when I was in high school, I really didn't feel super passionate about anything. I was not into sports. I was not good at any of that. So I decided to start a fashion blog. And that's kind of where everything started.

1:48 What were those first posts?

1:50 Who were taking your photos? Like, where was the inspo coming from?

1:53 Yeah, so I will preface this by saying not many people were reading this. I was getting max, I think my max page views on a blog post were like 50. And I was so excited. Ten of them were probably my friends and family. But my mom would help me take my photos, my outfits every single day after school.

2:13 And it was kind of just a little passion project for me.

2:16 To see what it's become now is incredible. You went on to study at FIT. Did you always know you would want to go to fashion school?

2:24 I did. I think ever since I was a little girl, I really always dreamed of moving to New York. That was going to happen one way or another. I was not staying in my hometown. And FIT was an amazing option because it's a state school. So it was within my budget. And it kind of put me exactly where I wanted to be, which was in Manhattan, and had the exact major that I wanted to do, which was fashion business management.

2:47 I get a question a lot from people of do I have to go to fashion school to work in fashion? Is it worth it? You actually went to fashion school and then did an MBA, which we'll get into later. What was it really like being in those classrooms, having these peers in the space? Would you say it was worth it?

3:04 I definitely think that it was worth it, but maybe for reasons that you wouldn't necessarily expect. I mean, I think with any undergrad program, how much do you really remember? I don't really remember anything that I necessarily learned in the classroom. And I would argue that most people couldn't tell you something that they learned in the classroom at undergrad.

3:23 But I think it was so important for me because it put me in the exact place and city and neighborhood that I needed to be in to be able to start working and making these connections. And, you know, FIT is amazing. I am so happy that I had that experience, but it is not a traditional college experience at all.

3:43 People are not there to make friends at all. They come with a very specific purpose. And, you know, when you would sit down in a classroom, it would be pretty silent. Everybody's kind of just like there to work, they're not there to make friends. You go, you sit down, you do your lesson, and then you kind of leave.

3:59 And so I wouldn't say it was a very traditional college experience in that sense, but it really got me into the working mindset immediately. I mean, people are just hustling, and that kind of energy is very infectious. So I loved my experience.

4:14 I'm very happy. Did you have a specific purpose of going there? Like, did you have a dream brand to work at?

4:19 So when I moved in, I originally thought that I wanted to be a fashion buyer, which I think is pretty common. A lot of people go in thinking that they want to be a buyer, and then they take one class and they're like, oh, this is actually not what I was expecting. So I originally wanted to be a buyer.

4:37 And then after working my first fashion week, I was like, okay, I really want to go into fashion event planning. And about a month later, COVID happened and wiped out all events. So that dream kind of shifted a little bit. But then that's where I got into really going on TikTok.

4:54 And you had a TikTok that got, I think, a hundred thousand followers overnight. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

5:02 Yes. So I posted a video, and at the time, TikTok was very much an app of people were dancing, people were lip syncing. That was kind of the content that you would get when you logged on. But I grew up watching a lot of YouTube and I would watch YouTubers that lived in New York. I would watch beauty gurus.

5:21 And I thought, you know, like I'm not seeing any of this style of content on TikTok. So I'm gonna kind of try to mimic like what a YouTube style video might be, or kind of what I was posting on my blog. So I decided to outline a day in my life as a fashion student and what I was spending that day because I was on a very tight budget at this time in my life, and I was living off of maybe like spending like $20 or $30 a day.

5:46 And I thought that maybe that would be interesting for people to see. So I made this video and I posted it. I went to sleep, and the algorithm was very different a few years ago, as we all know. And you know, one video could really start your entire career, and you could gain millions of followers in a week, a few days.

6:05 And I woke up and I had gained 100,000 followers. And after that, I was like, okay, this is it's time to lock in.

6:13 This could actually be something. That must feel crazy to wake up to that. Had you been making those videos before, was that the first kind of like day in the life you had made?

6:22 So this was the first vlog that I had made. Before that, I was doing some styling videos. I had maybe like 50,000 followers, but at the time on TikTok, that didn't really mean much. I mean, you could post like one viral video and gain 50,000 followers, so it didn't really mean anything. I was not making any money at all.

6:41 So this was the first like vlog style video, and that kind of catapulted, you know, all of my other vlogs.

6:48 And I can see why someone followed that video. What do you think has made people stay all these years?

6:55 Well, I mean, I'm so honored that people have stayed. It means so much to me. I think my just it's interesting to follow somebody's career trajectory and people are very nosy. And I think like when your first video that blows up is a lifestyle video or a vlog, that I've got very lucky with that because it invests people into like every little area of your life.

7:18 And I've been very consistent over the past 10 years. So I would say I owe it to that.

7:23 Now you have you've really like made it in the fashion industry. You started with more accessible content. A lot of people can see themselves in a budget video or living in New York or as a student. What do you think has made people kind of stay through this journey as you go to fashion shows and you have things that aren't as relatable?

7:43 I mean, I think people have followed that have followed me from the very beginning, they've gotten to see, you know, that trajectory. And I've always been very honest about how excited I am to be in these situations. I will never act like I'm too cool to be somewhere. I mean, I'm so honored to be in every room that I'm in.

8:01 And I think, you know, that authenticity, I hope that people can see that. And, you know, when somebody's very positive about a situation that they're in and is showing you every single aspect of it and the behind the scenes, I think people like to see that. And maybe they're like, if she can do it, maybe I can do it too.

8:17 Yes, of course. You've achieved a lot and you're 25. You found yourself in these business environments. You're with high-level people in the fashion industry, you're negotiating probably large amounts of money, all these incredible events. How did you learn how to navigate these new environments you were in?

8:35 So at the beginning, when I started to monetize my social media, it was definitely kind of the wild west. Like nobody really knew what they were doing. Brands didn't know what they were doing. Even the way that we will post an ad now on social media is so different than it was in 2021 when I would say I started to monetize.

8:55 I mean, at the time, you didn't need to use a royalty-free audio. There wasn't like a paid partnership toggle that you would turn on on TikTok to show that you were making money from it. You didn't even really have to disclose. So things have changed a lot. I would throw out random numbers to brands and hope that they would take them.

9:13 And, you know, it worked to an extent. But I also signed with my management that I'm still with to this day very early on. I think I was part of their first wave of like TikTok girls that they signed on. And they have changed my life and have been so instrumental in my career. And like I said, I'm still with them to this day.

9:32 And so that really was helpful on the business end of things.

9:36 How was the decision of choosing an agency? Like, did you know you're at DBA, right? Did you, they're kind of like the most well-known, I would say. Did you know you wanted them? Did you hear from other people that they were trustworthy? It's kind of a big decision.

9:49 I agree. It's definitely a big decision. And I think what most girls would say when they're signing with a management is they would look at the roster of other talent and see what those girls are doing and like, oh, they work with this person and I really look up to this girl. I love what she's doing.

10:03 And I think they had so many reputable talent that I looked up to, and their careers were so aspirational to me that I felt like it would be a good fit for me. But I also they reached out and they did not sign me for probably like six months. We were in talks and they were like, we're just gonna watch, like, we're gonna have, we're just gonna see how you're doing, and then we'll circle back.

10:24 And so I waited for them.

10:26 Like a game. Yeah. Was there ever a moment maybe it was the hundred thousand or signing, or social media can move at such a strange pace? It's very, it's nonlinear that you felt that the brand you were building had outgrown maybe where you were in that moment and was kind of outpacing you and you had to adapt to it?

10:45 Ooh, that's a good question. I mean, I think I was kind of part of a wave of creators that were kind of figuring things out. We were like the guinea pegs, and like I said, it was kind of like uncharted. And I would say in 2022 was when things started to get really serious with brands were really figuring out how to do this.

11:06 And I kind of felt like, okay, this is the time that I need to be really like amping up my content, working with photographers, shooting really high quality things, like honing my style. But that was also, I mean, the year I turned 21 and I was also just kind of growing up.

11:21 Yeah. Because I can almost speak from experience. The podcast gained, I think, 30,000 followers in the past month. And now I walk into rooms and it's kind of a different, you got put in a different category, I think, depending on followers. Sometimes it's the metric you can see the most. Kind of adapting to the perception of other people as you're kind of growing into that can be difficult.

11:42 So I'm kind of just like almost curious for myself too, because you've been doing this for a decade, I think.

11:48 Well, first of all, congratulations. That's so exciting. You're doing amazing things. But yeah, I would definitely say in 2022, I had a period of a lot of rapid growth. I think I gained 800,000 followers on TikTok in like a little bit over a week. That's insane. Which doesn't happen these days anymore, but happened at the time.

12:09 And that was from I started the series of like getting ready, doing my makeup, and talking about budgeting tips and financial tips. And that was kind of another little growth spurt for me. But definitely, you know, hitting that million follower mark was really instrumental. Whether it means anything, I mean, it doesn't really mean anything, but it seems to mean something to a lot of brands.

12:32 And I think brands started to take me seriously. After that, I started, you know, leaning more into luxury and luxury brands started to reach out. So that was definitely a big turning point for me.

12:42 Speaking of money, do you have any budgeting tips from those early days you can share with people or maybe where your mindset is around money now?

12:50 I am still very frugal. I still have a very frugal mindset around money. And I still do some of the things that I used to talk about. I mean, I still love like not taking sober Ubers when I can. Yeah, that was a big, a big mantra that I had back in the day is I I wouldn't take a sober Uber and I would city bike instead.

13:12 I need to get back on the city bikes, but I definitely still have a very frugal mindset around money, and I really choose to invest my money more than more than I spend it. But I've definitely kept up with a lot of those traits.

13:26 I think it's really interesting that that's part of the content angle for you and probably speaks to the educational element. You went and got your MBA. You've learned so much in your career just being in the industry. Why did you want to go back to school?

13:43 I wanted to go back to school for so many reasons. First of all, like you said, I feel like I've had amazing opportunities in this industry to speak with incredible people and be in rooms that, you know, I could only have ever dreamed of being in. And I just want to solidify, you know, my place in these rooms for as long as I can.

14:02 And so I really did want to go back and learn about the business side of things that, you know, I maybe didn't learn when I was an undergrad. I think we don't appreciate being in the classroom enough when we're 18. And then a few years pass, and you're like, oh, that would actually be nice to like sit down and have somebody teach me something.

14:19 So that was a big reason. It was also a program that I felt like was such a perfect fit for me. I did a focus in luxury and retail. NYU has a one-year MBA program in luxury and retail. And the one year was also very important to me because I don't think at this point in my life, in my career, I could commit to two years.

14:40 But I also wanted like a little bit of a routine in my life. Content is amazing. There's a lot of flexibility, but I don't think people talk about this a lot. It can be very lonely. I mean, you're in your home waking up in the morning, and your job is to make a video and have it go viral and come up with something new to talk about every single day.

15:02 And, you know, after doing this for, I think it was like nine years at that point, it can get a little bit redundant. And I think that it's important to challenge yourself, put yourself in new and uncomfortable situations, do something that might be scary. And I thought it was something that could really benefit me.

15:18 And it's kind of full circle that you first kind of went viral from school content and then you're going back for an MBA. So congrats. I feel like not a lot of creators are creating in a school environment and maybe talking about education. Why has that been important to you? Because I know it's something you've talked about and try to like encourage your followers.

15:38 100%. I mean, I really believe it's like something that nobody can take away from you. And the things that you learn are very valuable, but it also was an incredible confidence booster for me that I could do this. I knew I was capable of doing it. I put in the hard work, I put in the hours. And I think for me, I've seen how much that has impacted my life and my confidence and really, you know, every aspect of my life.

16:01 And so it's something that I really want to emphasize. And I also think social media is an incredible career. And I love how many women have been able to achieve success from this, but it's also like this isn't for everybody. I mean, education is still a very, very important thing. I don't think it's something that should be dropped.

16:17 Was there something you learned in the MBA? You'd been working with all these brands that you understood once you were in the classroom of what these brands valued or something new for your content?

16:28 My program was really interesting because it was focused in just luxury fashion. So we worked with really only luxury houses. Farragamo was a brand that we worked with for about half the year. And we went to Florence, we did a whole, you know, immersion with them, we did a whole consulting project for them, which was fascinating.

16:46 And, you know, I think right after undergrad, I went right into doing content full-time. So I never got a corporate job. And so it was really interesting to be in these situations and learn all these things that I maybe would have learned my first year out of college working in the corporate world, but I got to experience through my MBA program.

17:06 Are there any like case studies that you could maybe share with people? It's a very unique MBA, and I don't really hear people talk about like fashion and business in that lens, and you have such an interesting perspective. Like, is there anything that stood out to you in your classes?

17:20 Something that was really interesting for me that I didn't expect going into it was I mean, it is like kind of labeled, I guess, as like a more of a fashion MBA, but it's really luxury and retail. So we covered so many aspects of the luxury industry. So we covered hotels and yachts and wines and things like that.

17:38 And seeing all of those industries was really fascinating for me. Almost maybe more so than the fashion, because I've had a lot of experiences in the fashion industry. But being able to, you know, go to the vineyards and in Italy when we did our immersion and, you know, get to learn about those industries was one of the more interesting parts for me.

17:59 Luxury brands, I feel like, are more rare to work with influencers. What have you done in your positioning and what do you find that luxury brands look for when working with someone?

18:09 It's very different than when working with a mass brand. I was talking about this in an interview the other day, but they care so much less about impressions than a mass brand would. They honestly, it doesn't even seem like they care about the impressions. As long as the content is really reflective of that brand's aesthetic and their values, that tends to be what they care about the most, which has been interesting to figure out.

18:35 I think it's changed a little bit, but for the most part, they're not really concerned about the views and the numbers as they are about how much it aligns with them.

18:44 So, what is your process of creating then if it's a J. Crew versus Louis Vuitton? Like how are you kind of approaching that?

18:52 It's very different. A lot of times when I'll receive my briefs for working with a mass brand, a J. Crew when made well, something like that, they will send me an example of a video that I've done in my apartment where I'm just unboxing something, maybe using my box cutter to open the box and unbox it and try it on.

19:08 And, you know, it feels very accessible. And that's what those types of brands tend to prefer. But I think kind of an unspoken rule about working with a luxury brand or, you know, going to a luxury fashion show that is expected is, you know, you need to come with your hair and makeup professionally done.

19:28 They expect that you have like a photographer who's shooting you a professional photographer. They don't really want like iPhone content or iPhone videos when you're going to a luxury show. They kind of like it, I like I said, it's a little bit of an unspoken rule, but I think they expect more of a production around their content.

19:44 Something I've heard over and over again from fashion founders is that AI feels like something happening to them rather than something they get to choose if and how they participate. I felt the same way, which is why I was genuinely excited when I found out about swap commerce. I like to describe them as a tech company with taste.

20:01 You've probably heard about agentic commerce. It's been one of the buziest words in tech, but might not know how it can actually apply to your brand. Think about how you shop online today. You go to a website, you type in red dress, you get 200 results, you click through pages, change filters, open 10 tabs.

20:18 It's really time consuming, and your customer is doing all the work. An agentic storefront starts to change that. A customer can communicate what they're actually looking for, and the experience can understand their intent, help them discover the right products, and guide them through the shopping journey.

20:31 And with swap, that experience still belongs to you. The brand can create an online experience that mimics a beautiful store. If you want to check out an example, you can go to ai.retrofet.com to see what this can look like. This is the kind of AI and fashion that I find especially exciting. It's not replacing the designer or the human touch and craftsmanship, it's removing the friction out of the business so you have more time to do things that you love to do and cannot be replaced.

20:58 Swap will help you manage return, navigate cross-border selling, and using AI to actually engage with your customers online in a meaningful way. If you're building a fashion brand and trying to understand where AI actually fits into your business, swap is a company worth paying attention to. That's an unspoken part.

21:16 Because I also want to talk about it, it was just New York Fashion Week. And I think there's this conversation of do influencers deserve a seat there? And to me, it's it's so obvious. Like, whatever, that's a whole different thing. But what do you see your role being there as?

21:32 So when I'm going to a show, I really give it my all and I put out a lot of content, you know, for each individual show that I'm going to. I'll typically do, you know, a get ready with me where I'm getting dressed in the outfit, and I really like to outline, you know, what collection this was from, what look this was.

21:50 I'll insert a picture of it on the model, you know, how it was styled on the model versus how I'm styling it myself. I always will shoot with a photographer and give them kind. Of like something more editorial, which is what a lot of these brands expect and they want. And then I also really like to show the collection.

22:07 And I think that's where the importance of influencers going to these shows comes down to, because you know, these videos from creators go viral of the collections. And they're getting so many more impressions than I'm sure the Vogue Runway site is getting, even though I love the Vogue Runway site. But, you know, an influencers video of a runway collection that they post immediately, maybe an hour after the show finishes, that's really where the impressions are coming from.

22:33 Has the role that you play changed over the past 10 years, would you say, attending these shows?

22:39 I mean, definitely. My first shows, I was working backstage when I was in fashion school. So it's really, it's really full circle. It's cool. I just went to my 10th Michael Kors show. And that was the first show that I worked when I moved to New York in 2019. So it was really cool.

22:56 Were you like, I'm gonna volunteer at your show? Yeah. How did you go about like emailing them? What was that experience like?

23:03 So that's one of the big benefits of going to fashion school, I would say. FIT and Parsons and, you know, these fashion schools in New York are really good about getting you into the industry very early. So at least when I was there, they had one morning where they would have like a sign-up table outside, and you would line up outside at like six in the morning, and you could go up and you could sign up to volunteer for a show, and they would like randomly assign you a show and a role.

23:30 So I remember the first time I did it, I was assigned Michael Kors. And I think my job was model blocking. So before the the day before the show and the day of the show, they'll have like random people that'll walk the runway in the pace of the model so that they can line up the music, they can line up the lighting.

23:48 So that was kind of my first experience working a show. So it's very cool now to get to go to the show every year because I know all the behind the scenes. Yeah, you must appreciate it more knowing that you were you were back there.

24:00 Yes, it's always such an honor and it always will be. I find New York so commercial. And so to me, I'm like, obviously, they're gonna have influencers. They're driving sales, they're driving impressions. Do you find that like a London, Milan, Paris prioritizes different things?

24:14 Definitely. I mean, I think first of all, it's mostly like European talent over there. So my first Milan in Paris fashion weeks were very intimidating because I didn't have friends there. You know, in in New York, you show up to a show and like you know the street style photographers and you know the PR girls working the door, and you'll sit down and probably know the people sitting next to you, but it was a very different experience in Europe.

24:38 So it was I was definitely very intimidated my first time and my second time.

24:42 I think that doesn't get talked about enough online. Like the first fashion make I attended, I was so intimidated too. I didn't know anyone. I was like, should I even be here? Like these people seem famous, they all seem to know each other, but it takes time. And fake it.

24:57 Fake it till you make it. Exactly.

24:59 I want to get into a little bit more of like the money of the creator economy because I would probably say you're a top fashion influencer.

25:08unknown Thank you.

25:08 I don't know.

25:08 I feel like you wouldn't say about yourself. You seem very humble. Thank you so much. But I think you are, I think it's a fact. And I was reading this creator report recently, and I first heard Maggie Sellers talk about it, and it said that 67% of creators make less than $10,000 a year from content. And people are talking about this like middle class of creators coming up, and there's only this very, very small percentage that can actually achieve financial freedom from posting online.

25:36 You've become one of them. Do you have any advice for people of how to get to that next level with content and make it something that can truly support their lives?

25:46 I think now there are so many incredible tools for creators. For example, ShopMai. I mean, it's possible to make so much money on ShopMai with opportunities and with just earning commissions. And I feel like the top converters are even much more like micro influencers who have a really like locked-in audience who will really buy anything that they are talking about.

26:08 So I think tools like that are so incredible these days. And I also think like if you are in school or or you're working a corporate job and content is maybe something that you're doing on the side, it's a side hustle. That is such like people love to watch somebody who's in school or who's working a corporate job.

26:25 So I think that's such an amazing opportunity. There are also so many ways that you can integrate product into your content when you're talking about these, like your day-to-day life. So I think there's more opportunity than ever.

26:39 Yeah, that's good to hear. I feel like people say it's saturated, you know? People have been saying that for years.

26:44 And there's still people who pop up, and there's more people than ever who are monetizing this. Yeah.

26:50 Do you talk about money and maybe brand deals or what it's like to work with brands with like your peers in the space?

26:58 Definitely. And I think it's it's really important. I mean, obviously, you don't want to disclose everything, but I think now it's like a very open conversation where at the beginning it wasn't. And so we would have to ask each other. We would have to be like, oh, I'm talking to this brand. I'm doing this myself.

27:13 Like, how much should I ask? Like, how much are we charging for these types of things? Now it's a bit more people work with their managements, but at the beginning, it was definitely something that everybody we didn't have managers, we were all unsigned, and we were just talking to each other, asking, like, what should I charge for this?

27:28 So I think at least with the New York creators, it was a very open conversation. And now I think it's just an open conversation in general.

27:36 That's good to hear because I've talked to other people in the space and they're like, no, I'm too scared to talk about it, or like no one really wants to even bring it up. But I feel like it's so important to know what your like barometer and what your value is to brands. Do you have people you've kind of come up in the space with that you're both now get to work with the same brands or go to the same shows, but you were backstage together 10 years ago?

28:02 Maybe not backstage. I meet a lot of girls now, where whether it's like a brand that I'm working with where they're doing PR, or I'm at a fitting and they're like, oh, I went to FIT. And like we have just like this little bond, I think, when it's a fellow fashion student. But in terms of you know, creators coming up in the space, I got one of those like photos that will pop up in your on your phone of like memory from 2020.

28:27 And it's a picture from like some random event that all of us were at, and it's still the same group of people who are doing content now who are the top, you know, New York content creators. So it's been like so such a crazy journey to come up together. And we started by like, it was just such uncharted territory, and now this has become our business.

28:47 So it's pretty amazing.

28:49 I do think it's one of the few industries where there was no one to look to of what to do next. How are you thinking about the future of your career as a creator?

28:59 This is always such a hard question. I bet. I bet, you know, my life now is is incredibly different than I expected it to be five years ago. And, you know, I have no idea where I'll be five years from now, but I've also definitely made a lot of decisions to kind of pad whatever happens next. I mean, I think going back to school and getting my MBA was like a little security blanket.

29:21 As much as I wanted to do it for so many reasons, it's also, you know, just a good thing to have. Things can always change. So who knows? But I'm excited. Like it's getting better.

29:32 I had the head of consumer forecasting at WGSN on the podcast, and we are talking about these kind of new roles brands are creating within their companies and how people are hiring creators in-house. Do you ever see yourself doing maybe something like that?

29:49 Definitely. Yeah. Definitely. I've loved like doing consulting work for brands in the past, and I totally see a future in that. I mean, I love doing content, but I don't see myself being like a front-facing influencer posting every single day for the rest of my life. I mean, I don't plan on doing this forever.

30:08 So I think that could definitely be an interesting move.

30:12 Especially like with your MBA, you're well more well set up than ever to be like head of content strategy at who knows, Dior. Yeah, it would be a dream. Find it really interesting of like when someone might stop making content. Like, do you have a moment where you're like, oh, if I have kids, I won't make content anymore, or like be as front-facing?

30:30 Yeah, that's a really good question. And it's something that I've thought about a lot really because I've been doing this for a long time. I do not mind like being a known name or a known figure in the industry. I also think like at this point when you already have a following, that's like kind of inevitable.

30:46 But like I said, I do not want to be like a front-facing showing my morning routine every single day when I have children. Like that's not in my, that's not in my plan. So definitely.

30:58 Cause I kind of just wonder like what that'll look like for people. Cause I have a feeling a lot of people will do that. And like, how do you kind of phase out an audience that's gotten so invested in like you and what you're doing? Yeah, but a lot of people don't mind.

31:11 Really? Like a lot of people are I that I talk to are like, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. I want to, I will show everything. That's kind of never really been my approach, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's amazing. That's never really been my approach or my my dream, especially because I moved to New York to work in the fashion industry.

31:27 This kind of just like happened.

31:30 And I love this. It's just something I'm very curious about like how people are gonna approach it, is now a lot of these creators are getting so much bigger, and like what's gonna happen next as we feel so like entitled to people's lives on the internet. It's just it's very interesting to me. It's crazy to watch this like unfold in real time.

31:48 Yeah, I know. I think there was someone who kind of like went dark, and it's I know who you're talking about. I can't remember her name.

31:54 I was listening to a podcast about this the other day, and she owns Day Day number. I was listening to that too.

32:01 Yeah, yeah. Okay, we have the same taste.

32:03 Yeah. Also, on that podcast, honestly, I was wanting to ask you about this. I think we're thinking of Isabel Lorna, right? Yeah, that was the episode. She very explicitly called herself an influencer, not a creator. How do you think about these titles?

32:18 Yeah, I was that was definitely a really interesting podcast. I've been like binge binge listening because I'm going on Hot Smart Rich next. I'm excited. Which I'm excited about. I don't really have a preference. I mean, normally I think I say content creator, but I really don't have a preference. You can call me an influencer, that's what I am.

32:36 They're pretty interchangeable to me. And I think it's it used to be a term that like maybe people would be offended by.

32:43 But yeah, that's what I am. I think New York is rarely positioned, I think, for like influencers or content creators or people with platforms or people just kind of doing their own thing. Then you live in like Omaha. I don't know. Being in certain spaces, did you find that people maybe treated you differently when you're like, oh, I'm an influencer, I create content, or they find out that they can find out about your life online.

33:05 Definitely. I definitely think some people feel that way. And it's also not something that's for everybody. I think people kind of have this misconception that if you are an influencer or creator, like your whole life is out there, everybody knows everything about you, you have no privacy, and I feel like a lot of peace in the areas of my life that I've kept private.

33:28 There are like some things that I just don't talk about and will never talk about. That's my personal life, and that is staying completely offline. And I've been that way for many years, despite people maybe like asking me questions about stuff. And I'm just like, I choose to keep some areas of my life private.

33:43 But I have a lot of peace in what I've shared online and I'm guessing dating is probably I'm the same way.

33:52 Totally offline, nothing.

33:54 Yeah, I think it's a hard thing to navigate because the views are there, especially with like dating content or showing your boyfriend. But then if you break up, people come for you. You owe people, you know, an explanation. Are there things or brands that you won't work with because of the brand positioning you've tried to give yourself?

34:14 That's a good question.

34:16 I think I have like a really interesting balance of brands that I work with. I have like a wide range of brands. I mean, I work with Walmart, but I also work with LVMH.

34:26 Yeah.

34:26 And so it's been interesting to navigate kind of like working with both ends of the spectrum. As far as things that I won't promote or I won't work with, you know, I never want to promote something that I think would be like a negative thing for one of my followers to be involved with or like a bad use of their money.

34:44 For example, like I think one of the earliest things I had written out of one of my contracts was promoting Afterpay or Klarna. And that's something that like I feel very passionate about. Like, I do not believe in installment payments. If you can't afford a hundred dollar dress, you should not be buying it.

35:00 You shouldn't be paying an installment of $25. So I think like that's one thing that I think would be, it's not something that I want to promote to my younger audience. So yeah, anything that would be a negative influence.

35:14 I think that's a really interesting one because it's been positioned as accessible. Yeah. I wasn't expecting that answer. No, I've heard like GLP ones or like weight loss. Yeah, I mean, obviously not that. Yeah. Have there been brand deals where I didn't even know this amount of money was possible?

35:32 Definitely. My especially my first year of working with my agency, like I said, they completely changed my life and I owe so much to them. And I've been with them for I guess now five years.

35:44 It's a long time.

35:45 And they've done so many amazing things for so many, especially women. And yeah, I think especially after like 2022, is when budgets for brands really started to increase a lot, especially like on TikTok.

36:02 How much would you say of your career has been intentional and strategic of getting to a certain follower account or a certain brand or a certain achievement? And how much has been like kind of going with the flow?

36:14 I would say at this point, growth is not something that has been on my mind in the past maybe like two years. I have a really amazing audience. I'm like, I don't feel the need to like get to two million TikTok followers. If that happens, that would be great, but it's not something that I'm like actively waking up and thinking about.

36:32 Whereas in the beginning, it definitely was a little bit of both. I would say in the past few years, my intentions have more been like really elevating myself, really like what value can I provide to my followers? Like, how can I inspire people in a positive way? I'm very brand safe. And I don't think that that's a bad thing.

36:53 You know, like I've talked about this a lot, but like I think oversharing is gets you a lot of views. It can really, you know, make a video go viral, but that's that's not something that I'm interested in doing. I I don't think that there's anything wrong with being brand safe at the end of the day.

37:10 This is my business, this is how I pay my bills. I'm going to keep it as safe as possible. And that's how people like get canceled.

37:17 I feel like too, which I'm sure is a fear. Even just me posting like online or something like, wait, that people get taken down, people say mean things. How did you navigate that being so young? I don't know if you ever got like mean comments or DMs.

37:34 Definitely. There's not really much that you can say to me that's going to hurt me. Because, you know, being online for 10 years, you see everything under the sun written about you. Everybody has an opinion. People will message you, they'll respond to your stories, they'll put it on other platforms. So I definitely have a thick skin, but it's a good, like it's a good lesson.

37:54 You really, it's really hard to get to me.

37:56 Going into your MBA and being an influencer being quite large, did you have any feelings of like they might think of me differently because I post online and I'm an influencer? Oh my gosh, definitely. Yeah.

38:09 The day that I walked into my first day of school at NYU was one of the like most scared times that I've been in a while. And you know, I think that's a good thing because we don't do enough things in our everyday life that scares us. And so I was terrified. I was like shaky and I was so nervous to meet the people that I was going to spend, you know, the next every day for the next year with.

38:30 And I was definitely, you know, nervous that people wouldn't take me seriously because of my career background. I knew I was going to be the only one coming in without, you know, corporate experience or who was doing this as their job. And it was super nerve-wracking. People were very, very accepting, though.

38:49 I met lifelong friends in my MBA program. And, you know, people were interested to talk to me and learn about my business. And just as much as I was interested to talk to them and learn about their careers. So I had a really lovely experience, but I was definitely very nervous.

39:05 I mean, putting yourself out there online is vulnerable, you know, and you you never know how people are going to respond. Would you recommend to people wanting to be in the fashion space to do an MBA?

39:17 Personally, I loved it. I mean, for so many reasons. It was such great networking. I mean, like I said, I've met lifelong friends, but also so many really, really intelligent, mostly women, because it was mostly women in my program. Girls that I know I will call on in like 10 years when I'm starting a new business.

39:36 And I'm like, I need your expertise or advice or your connection on something. So I think the networking aspect is a huge reason why people go to business school in the first place. And I had an incredible experience and I'm so happy with the people that I met, the professors, you know, everything.

39:52 You've referred to this as a business multiple times, which it is. Were there certain steps you took at the beginning to really be like, this is a business steps someone else listening could take to really get that confidence?

40:03 I think I set up my LLC when I was like in high school, maybe.

40:10 And and I was not making much money, but you know, I was making a little on like LTK.

40:16 And I was like, okay, mom, dad, like I have a business. I need to set up like Kate Bartlett LLC, which is still what I have. And I've always kind of viewed it as that from day one, and you know how it's grown and expanding my team. I mean, it's like undeniable. This is this is a business for so many women.

40:35 It is. I do want to get your perspective on like how the influencer industry has changed. You've been in this for so long. Like, how have you seen shifts and waves of the perception of it? Like just to being in this space.

40:47 It's changed so so much, especially like over the past five, six years, like with COVID. I would say only in maybe like 2024, 2025, or especially with like all of the articles in like Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and all the these things that are really revealing like how big of an industry this actually is.

41:08 That's when people started to really truly take it seriously. Yeah. But, you know, 2020 to 2023, I think people didn't understand like how much money was in it or how much money creators were making. So it was a little bit harder to view it as a legitimate career.

41:28 I want to get into some advice for people who might be at your 15-year-old self stage and kind of go through like these different phases you've been in. If someone's living in a town where there's not a lot of fashion, what were you doing to feel involvement in the space at that time?

41:45 That's a great question. And definitely where I was when I was 15 years old. I was in Orlando feeling very stuck, feeling like there were no opportunities there for me, which is a big reason why I started my blog. I also worked in retail. I worked at Ann Taylor Loft and I hated it. I hated working retail.

42:03 It was so miserable. But I'm so glad that I did that because I think if you're working in fashion, it's very important to have retail experience. I think it gives you a lot of perspective. So even though that was something that I didn't enjoy and I was making $7.25 an hour. Florida minimum wage. It was so important to me.

42:22 I think like having those experiences, really learning like everything that goes into a retail operation if you're wanting to work in fashion is incredibly important. You know, social media is an amazing outlet to express yourself, to, you know, figure things out, to style things, to get other people's opinions on things, you know, to pitch yourself.

42:40 I think it's an incredible outlet.

42:42 I feel like everyone who has like a little bit of inclination or wants agency should kind of start some sort of platform. Exactly. Okay. And then bringing to 17-year-old you, applying to fashion school, are there things that you put on your resume, your essay that kind of helped you stand out for FIT?

43:01 So that was a big reason why I started my blog in the first place, was to just kind of have a portfolio for them to look at. And I think I had a thousand followers. I mean, it was like it wasn't a platform by any means. It was like a high schooler's Instagram, but you know, I showed that I could write and I was interested in photography, and I was interested in styling, and I would like kind of like write up breakdowns about brands or fashion shows and things like that.

43:29 And anything that you have to just show them your interest in a variety of different fields, I think is really important. Okay.

43:36 And then bringing to you at FIT, you in school, were there things that you did to really, really capitalize on that network in that moment? I mean, you're around all these people who are so ambitious. You said they weren't the friendliest. What did you do? What would you recommend?

43:53 I was so much more fearless then than I am now. I definitely am more risk averse now, which is something That I'm working on. But, you know, when I was 18 and I was in school, I had like no idea about anything. I was just starting at ground zero. I literally had nothing to lose. So I was so fearless with my networking, with everything.

44:17 I, you know, would pass out business cards of my blog. I'm like, what was I thinking? What was I doing? But it was like all of these little things that, like, I was put in uncomfortable situations and I really gave it my all. I really put myself in front of anybody that I could. I would really pitch myself.

44:32 I would, you know, email KC D or like Carla Otto and be like, hi, I'm an FIT student. Can I come to your show? And it shockingly would work sometimes. But just really putting yourself out there and being a fearless networker, I think, was so life-changing for me. I'd love to see that business card.

44:51 I think it had like a star on it. It was like my name with like a star in the middle. It was the vibe at the time. Yeah.

44:57 And then graduating, even if you are making enough money to support yourself from content, it's a big life change to graduate, fully support yourself in that way. And everyone else is on their own path. You can't really compare yourself to your peers anymore. Are there things you did to give yourself structure as an entrepreneur?

45:17 How did you kind of navigate that?

45:20 Back then, I wouldn't say that there was so much structure. That's definitely for something I could have been better about. But I mean, I was 21. Yeah. But, you know, at that time, that first year, I was taking my free time and really using it as wisely as I could. I would work with a lot of photographers.

45:38 I would really take on like creative projects. I was doing like a lot of fun fashion photo shoots, which is something that I don't really do now. But at the time, I was like trying to fill my time with, you know, working with other creatives. And I think like doing that for a few years really built my network.

45:55 And now there are still makeup artists that I met during that time that'll call up and be like, oh, I need glam for this photo shoot, or photographers, bibliographers that I work with all the time from just this period of being really creative and filling my time by trying to meet people.

46:10 Like the relationships you build are so important in fashion. Everyone says it, but it's because it's true. The industry is tiny. I know. And then kind of bringing to when you had a platform, but maybe not where you are right now, very, I think, established in this space. I recently met a stylist with like 100,000 followers who listens to the podcast.

46:32 And that's what I'm kind of picturing for this advice of they have a platform, like they have an expertise, they kind of know what they're doing, but maybe they want a level up to get invited to a luxury fashion show or work with a luxury brand. Like anything that maybe you think put you over the edge to be like a top 1% creator.

46:51 That's so kind. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I think when it comes to building relationships with brands, like you cannot expect to be invited to something if you are not purchasing the brand, you're not talking about the brand throughout the year, not just when Fashion Week is rolling around, being loyal to the creative director, to the designer, like really pouring yourself into talking about them and platforming them and like all throughout the year, maybe you're buying pieces on the real reel from that designer.

47:21 Or once you start to work with them, you know, for an occasion, you're asking if you can pull a piece for a shoot or to wear to an event, something like that. But when it comes to, you know, really building a relationship with a brand, it's a two-way street and loyalty goes a long way. The brands that I work with and I attend their shows, I'm talking about year-round.

47:42 I'm constantly, you know, referencing looks or being like putting together an outfit. And I was like, oh, this was inspired by this look I saw on the runway last season. Here's a picture of it. And this will be, you know, in the middle of the summer when Fashion Week is not near at all. But, you know, platforming that brand and talking about them organically all throughout the year is very, very important.

48:02 And also, like I said, buying the pieces, even if it's secondhand, I buy most of my stuff on the Real Reel.

48:06 There you go. I love the Real Reel. And I actually just made a video this morning because Fashion Week just ended. People keep talking about like how do you get invited to shows? And I was thinking that your Fash Week invite is made in the off season. Like it's not gonna happen two weeks before, maybe, but not for me.

48:24 So I completely agree. You mentioned pulling pieces, and I think that was something I didn't realize until I was more in this space. Are there little things that people might be surprised by about being a creator, being in the fashion space?

48:39 Yeah, I mean, for anybody who doesn't know what pulling a piece would be, it's when you reach out to the PR of a fashion house and you say, Hey, I have this event coming up, or this red carpet, or this trip, and this is the setting I'm going to be in. I saw this look at your last show or at the show from like a few seasons ago.

48:59 I would love to pull this piece to wear for this occasion. And sometimes they're like, Yeah, sure, we'll messenger it over. You wear it, and then they pick it back up. And sometimes they're like, no, sorry, this piece is off with this celebrity, or no, sorry, we're not loaning that out right now. Really just depends.

49:15 Um, but I think it never hurts to ask. And it's a great way to build a relationship with a brand or show them love in the off season. But yeah, other things people don't know. There are a lot of expenses. Things are very expensive. Things like glam is very expensive, stylists are very expensive, photographers are very expensive.

49:34 But, you know, investing in these things can really, you know, elevate your brand a lot.

49:39 Do you think people really expect I mean, you mentioned for luxury, but like expect like a professional look? I do.

49:46 And it's not something that I ever did in the beginning, but now it's something that I've leaned into a bit more. But I think it's also just like kind of the full picture, like working with a really amazing makeup artist. And this is like they create a beautiful look and they they understand your palette and your tones and what you're wearing, and they understand the vision of the designer.

50:04 Same with hair, but I think it's like pulling together a full look is really important to brands.

50:10 Kind of on a different note from Fashion Make, but because I'm fascinated, you've been on brand trips, they're obviously like working vacations. I think that doesn't seem that way, but what is that like? I didn't like talk to you about this before, but I'm like, wait, this just came to mind.

50:26 Brand trips are so fun. They are so fun. And it's been one of the biggest blessings of this career is that I have gotten to travel the world because of this and work with so many incredible brands. They set up the best experiences and the cities and the countries that you're in, but it is work. It is not a vacation, it is not like free time.

50:51 You fly, you get off the plane, and you're going immediately to something. It's not like, oh, take a break, rest. So it's a ton of work, but it has been like I am just so immensely grateful for all of the travel experiences that I've had through doing content and getting to see places and stay in like amazing hotels that I would have never gotten to stay in.

51:13 I do not take it for granted. I am so incredibly grateful.

51:16 I think it's like one of the coolest things probably about this space. Are you editing like in real time when it's fashion week or you're at a brand trip? Yeah. I do all my own editing. Really? How much time do you think you spend?

51:30 A lot.

51:31 Like, I'm gonna have like purple on my hands. My pinky is like oh yeah, I definitely have a TED.

51:37 I'm on my phone on Cap Cut. That's probably my most used app. Like my screen time on CapCut is probably the most. It's a lot. And every year, I think creators are expected to push out more content per day than it was the year before, at least for the algorithm to really push you. Like my videos perform the best when I post four times a day.

51:57 Gough. Which I don't always do. But if I'm like, okay, I really want my content to perform, that's that's what I have to do.

52:04 It's funny because I get asked, like, how much time do you spend editing the podcast? And like, I don't have a good number to give, unfortunately, but like it's a lot, you know. So I think when people talk about content, I would say like the editing is probably the the biggest piece of it and like the most work of it.

52:20 I don't know if you would.

52:22 It's what I spend like the majority of time doing.

52:24 Have you ever thought about like outsourcing that? Because I think people do that.

52:27 I've tried, and I think for me, when I'm filming a video, I know in my head exactly how I'm going to edit it. I know exactly where I'm going to cut my words off. If I'm filming something, I will maybe repeat the same sentence three times of what I'm like talking about, but I know exactly which take worked the best and what I liked the best.

52:52 And so whenever I've tried outsourcing editing for at least short form content, I do outsource my long form content. But for short form, I just have to do it myself. Yeah. Because I have I have the vision in my head of exactly how I want the video executed. And I think a lot of creators would say the same thing.

53:09 You mentioned long form. Is that something you're trying to invest more in? Because I've heard a lot of people be like, everything's going back to YouTube now.

53:17 Long form is so hard for me. It's so hard. And I have an amazing YouTube editor, but even then, I'll and all I have to do is get the clip.

53:26 Even then, it's really it's tough for me. But I I think every creator has like their things that they're good at and their things that are like they're just not for them, just like with any job. Um, I am working on it, but it's definitely not a format that I think I'm amazing at yet.

53:44 It's hard. You post a lot of like day in the life videos. It's kind of where your start was. I'm curious what maybe like an average or boring day in the life would be, where maybe that's not a video that would perform super well. Because I think when creators talk about like I'm on my computer, I'm doing emails, people are like, okay, but what does that mean?

54:03 Like, what are you doing? So, can you walk us through that?

54:07 Yes, of course. So I think when people are like, oh, I'm doing emails, I'm doing computer work, a lot of times that will be coordinating like a brand deal, for example. Like a brand will send you a deck. First, you'll have a call with them and they'll outline kind of what exactly they want, exactly how they want the content shot.

54:24 They'll send you a deck to fill out, and you will fill out pretty much every single thing about the video that you're gonna make. You're gonna share the background, a picture of the background, how your makeup is going to look, how your hair is gonna look, what your manicure looks like, all of these things they want to see.

54:41 And they'll want to know what royalty-free audio is going to be in the background, if there's going to be a hashtag with a partner on screen, or if that's going to be in the caption, the exact script of every word that you're going to say, and sometimes like a shot list. And then the caption, text overlay, the cover photo for the real.

55:07 All of these things are planned out and mapped out. They need to be put into a deck and then sent to the brand for the brand to approve. Then the brand will make edits, they'll send them back, you'll edit these things, and you'll go back and forth, sometimes for a month. Wow. For like a 15-second, one-minute video.

55:24 And then eventually you'll execute the video, you'll send it in, they'll send edits, you make the edits, you send it back, you set a live date, then you go. That was a lot. So I think like a really time-consuming part of, you know, fulfilling a paid partnership is doing all of the back end stuff like that.

55:43 Yeah. Wow. I'm sure your agency and your manager like does the negotiation, but are there things that you've learned in that process you could share with people who maybe are negotiating themselves of like, hey, watch out for the royalty free or something like that?

55:57 Yeah, I think there's so many things. Like you said, I don't do my own negotiations anymore. But now there are so many like extra little things that can be, you know, looped into a contract, whether that's exclusivity with competitors or exclusivity in categories like fragrance. If you're doing a partnership for a fragrance, you can't post about any other fragrance for X amount of days before and X amount of days after.

56:22 There will also be things like whitelisting a video. So if it's going to be boosted, is it 30 days? Is it 365 days? You know, all of these are, you know, things that you can tack on. Or extra story sets. Is it syndicated? Like all of these little intricacies have a price that is negotiated. And the more that's tacked on, the higher the rate of the video is.

56:46 Did going to business school make you think about your deals like a little bit differently?

56:50 Definitely. It's just interesting to know the back end of like every other moving part of the business that leads up to a creator being selected. There's a lot going on in the background. The manicure thing. I didn't, I didn't even. Yeah, I got red nails yesterday because I don't have any beauty ads that I'm filming in the next two weeks.

57:11 Which beauty ads will always ask for a pink or nude manicure. And just start looking out for that.

57:17 Yeah, if you have red nails, they will tell you to go to the salon and change them.

57:22 Will they pay you for to like change your nails? Sometimes. Sometimes there will be like a glam budget that's worked into usually like a paid appearance. But yeah, some brands, if they want a very specific like nails, they will send you, you'll they'll reimburse you or they'll send somebody to your house.

57:41 That's wild.

57:42 I know, it's crazy.

57:44 You've been doing this for a while. How many videos do you think you've made? Oh my God. I've never been asked that before. Really? Oh, hundreds. Probably thousands.

57:55 I would guess like tens of thousands.

57:57 Yeah, it's a lot. How many videos I have on my phone or photos I have on my phone? It's I think like six or seven hundred thousand. I don't You have 700,000 videos on your phone. Yeah.

58:09 What storage do you have?

58:11 I have like I was like, yeah, I have six videos. I don't know, but I get like a hefty Google Cloud charge on my phone every month, and I just ignore it because it's necessary. But I I have like maxed out storage on everything.

58:26 Oh my god. You're a good Apple customer.

58:29 I know, I know.

58:31 I think I'm gonna get the new Really.

58:33 I'm kind of like, I don't know, I don't like the feeling of it. I I haven't like felt it in person yet, but if I could make my iPhone double the size, I would. Is it like double bigger? Yeah, I think it's I think it's double the size. And I'm thinking for editing that might be nice. So I'm gonna give it a try.

58:51 And we'll see. I'll report back. Because my thought was kind of like if I wanted something bigger, I would get an iPad. Maybe just feel like an iPad mini. Yeah, I don't know. I'm like, at what point are we making this product? I don't know. But I think that's good to hear from people who are at an earlier stage that like it takes reps to make up so many videos that you kind of get it down, you know what your style is, and then you know how to integrate brands, like it's trial and error.

59:18 Yeah, talking to camera is like a whole thing to figure out like your voice, the intonation, like how you hurt people, how you cut off your sentences.

59:26 It's an art form. And I think the voice is the first thing people will critique about you on the internet for sure, like vocal fry or like Valley Girl, specifically for women. It's yeah. Okay, I have some speed round questions for you. What do you think the most underrated skill for a creator is? Ooh.

59:45 I think being on time to things and you know, just being a pleasant person to work with, like asking people their names, remembering them, doing follow-up, sending follow-up emails, sending thank yous, sending thank you flowers, like all of these things really make a difference in your business. I 100% agree.

1:00:05 And I'll say she was on time today. A lot of people are not on time. One thing fashion school actually prepared you for.

1:00:13 Ooh. It's like kind of cutthroat. People are people are there to, you know, get ahead for themselves. Which is not a bad thing. Like they're there to work and they know what they want.

1:00:25 We kind of talked about this, but if you had to pick one, would you call yourself an influencer or a creator?

1:00:30 Maybe I would go with creator.

1:00:32 Okay, a business term you think more creators need to understand.

1:00:37 Oh my gosh. A business term? I don't know about a term, but I think I think it's really important to invest your money and to spend wisely. And I think being frugal is not a bad thing. Do you have a fashion hot take? Fashion hot take. And I think people like don't want to wear heels to casual occasions anymore.

1:01:02 And I think unless you're going to a workout or you're going on a hike, I think a heel is always appropriate.

1:01:11 Is there a fashion industry misconception?

1:01:14 I think most people, like people can maybe get a rep for being like not the nicest to work with. And while I do think it's a cutthroat industry, people know what they want and they're very professional for the most part. And most people I've met in this industry have been very lovely, just very direct.

1:01:33 I agree. I think people are like, everyone's gonna be so mean, and I don't think it's the case. So we do have a resource recommendation. Maybe it's like a book, a podcast, a newsletter.

1:01:43 I think reading the news is so important. I read BOF in the New York Times every day, and just staying up to date on these things is very valuable. I mean, it helps you with conversations in any environment that you'll be in. You're sat at a dinner and you have something that like you can bring up in conversation.

1:02:00 I think that's really important. So yeah, those are probably the two that I would start with. And they're also free if you're in school.

1:02:08 Oh.

1:02:08 Or I think very, very, very discounted for BOF if you're in school. So check it out. Good to know. And do you have any upcoming announcements you want to share?

1:02:16 There's always something fun to put on if you follow me. And I think this might be obvious, but where can everyone find you? You can find me at Kate Bartlett on everything. Well, thank you so much. I think there was so much knowledge covered here of different stages, no matter where somebody is in their fashion career.

1:02:34 And I'm just so thankful to have you on. So thank you for coming. This was so fun. Thank you for having me.