How Social Media has Changed Wedding Culture with Ring Concierge

0:00 Fashion and Founders is your resource for breaking into fashion, leveling up your career, and building a breakthrough business. So let's get into this week's episode. Hello and welcome back to Fashion and Founders Podcast. My name is Victoria Smith, and this week I'm joined by Nicole Wegman, the founder of Ring Concierge.

0:16 Before becoming a founder, Nicole worked at Bloomingdales, and I have met so many listeners who either used to work at Bloomingdales or currently do. And Nicole has great advice for really anyone working a corporate fashion job right now who eventually wants to work for themselves. We talk a lot about the wedding industry and how social media has changed so many aspects of it from the engagement, the proposal, the wedding, all of it.

0:41 For example, Ring Concierge did Acquired Styles Engagement Ring. And I think this was one of the most documented and talked about weddings of the summer and had a huge impact on the bridal economy. And this week is bridal fashion week in New York. So it's very good timing if anyone is currently looking into this or going to events.

0:58 I think you guys will really enjoy this episode. And if you could please leave the podcast a rating, a review, and follow or subscribe to the show wherever you listen. It really helps the podcast grow and continue to get incredible guests like Nicole. So let's get into the episode. Hi, Nicole. Hi. I literally feel like I'm in a movie right now.

1:15 So thank you guys so much for bringing all this ring concierge jewelry. I know I picked the right job because I just got covered in diamonds today for work.

1:22 So I mean that I feel like I'm like, what is it, Cinderella and the very godmother. Yes.

1:27 I'm like the very godmother. Like, no, that's how it felt. You guys were like earrings, bracelets, necklace. I was like, I will wear whatever you hand me. Thank you. And thank you for being here.

1:36 Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

1:38 I would love to begin with your start in the fashion industry. You used to work in the industry before being founder. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

1:45 Sure. So I went to school for my major was literally called fiber science and apparel design. So I always knew I wanted to be in fashion. And then when I graduated, I moved to the city and I started in product development for Macy's private label, which obviously gigantic company, but they have a very formal training program.

2:04 So I learned the basics about consumer behavior and obviously product development and the ins and out of that. And then I switched to the buying program at Bloomingdales, which is a Macy's in company as well. Very formal training program there as well. But it really gave me this foundation that I think is hard to get at a smaller company that I was able to use later in my career.

2:31 And it gave me this appreciation for the business side of the industry. Because when I was younger, I was like, okay, fashion is cool. I like getting dressed, like we all watched Clueless, like great. But obviously at the end of the day, it's a business, right? And at those two companies and in those two roles, I understood what it takes to drive that type of a business.

2:53 What was it like being within Macy's at such a large company versus starting your own? And it's just you.

3:00 Different. And that's also partially why I wanted to make the change. So I had been at Macy's and Blooming Nails for about six years, working in obviously a large company with many layers above me, and I didn't have any autonomy. And I'm the type of person that really just likes to be my own decision maker.

3:15 And so I knew I wanted to make a change, but I really stumbled into jewelry and I kind of stumbled into being an entrepreneur. Like the idea fell into my lap. And I was like, okay, I have to try this. I'm not that happy at my current role. I also didn't make any money. So the risk was not that high. Like I wasn't walking away from this like amazing salary that easily supported my New York City lifestyle.

3:41 Like my debit card didn't go through in taxis. Like that's where I was at, you know? Um, so it was very, very different because you have no one guiding you. And at a company like that, with that many layers, your career is kind of mapped out, your job description is crystal clear, the expectations and your performance is very, very pre-planned in terms of what they want you to do in your role.

4:07 And then when you're on your own, it's like figure it all out. Nobody's here to help you.

4:12 It's interesting because I've met several podcast listeners in person, if it's at events or whatever, and they tell me they listen who worked or still work at Bloomingdales. And I think each of them had some sort of side hobby. Maybe it's selling vintage or they make something by hand, whatever it is, they're probably gonna listen to this and find out you were their same company and be like, oh wow, like that is where I could be in a few years, like with all this other obviously work that goes into it.

4:40 If someone is currently at Bloomingdales in corporate, listening to this, dreaming of the day they can work for themselves. What did you need to hear back then? Yeah.

4:50 Oh my God, I feel like I'm gonna get a cease and desist now from Bloomingdale. No, no, like love that. No, no. I mean, look, here's the the brutal realities being an entrepreneur is not for everybody. There are pros to having a stable job. There are pros to going home at 6 p.m. and being able to be home and live your life.

5:11 You don't get to do that when you're building a company. There are so many personal sacrifices and financial sacrifices you make, you have to make to be successful. But if you're the type of person that wants excitement and likes problem solving, then it might be really interesting, right? You also have to have a very high risk tolerance.

5:32 I have a very, very high risk tolerance. Like I am okay to know I have $20,000 in my bank account, but my company might be worth 100x that, and I'm just gonna ride this out and hope for the best. Like I can operate that way. A lot of people I know could not, right? Like you need to know, okay, I've got a 401k and I have stability and I can predict I'm gonna make this much every year.

5:56 So it just depends on your personality, how hard you want to grind, and what your risk tolerance is. But if that is all appetizing to you and you're sitting at a cubicle in Bloomingdale, or any other company, or any other company where you're like, I wish I could just have each day be really unexpected and not know what the outcome of something's gonna be because to me that's really exciting, but I might have something here, then yeah, it could be a really, really cool opportunity.

6:24 So you as a founder, you take this risk. You have said that you didn't start with very much money with $2,000.

6:31 Yeah.

6:32 How did you do it? How did you figure it out?

6:34 I was 26, first of all. So it's not like I had this sophisticated plan. I really didn't. My goal for myself the very first year that I quit my job was to just replace my salary at Bloomingdale's. And if I could do that, I'd rather work for myself. So the bar was, like I said, I did not make much money.

6:52 The bar was low. I mean, it's like a junior fashion job, right? It's not an industry where you're getting rich quick. And so I had no choice but to be super scrappy. The $2,000, I remember what it went towards. Buying a URL on like GoDaddy or one of those websites, a legal Zoom LLC that I filed for myself.

7:15 I don't even know if I did it correctly, but like, hey, I have an LLC, right? And business cards. I think that was it. And then the rest was just like feet on the pavement, looking for clients. I did take some online courses, tried to figure out like what is a diamond? You know, I need to be somewhat educated.

7:33 And just did it in a really low cost, slowly, working with friends, family, and then getting referred from them to more clients until I got to a place where there was a business. And I didn't know that VCs existed. I didn't know about angel investors. I knew nothing about the world of investing. It wasn't even a part of my vocabulary.

7:56 So I didn't know there was a different way to do it, which I think actually ended up helping me because I now own almost my entire company. Versus had I known maybe there was a different path, I don't know if I would have taken it or not, but I know I wouldn't be in the position I'm in today.

8:13 You mentioned that you just wanted to replace your salary. Were you paying yourself from the business at first? Because that's the thing that a lot of people say is like, I've never taken a dime.

8:22 No. So I started the business at the same year I got married. And so my husband had a job and we talked about it. And we're like, okay, let's try this thing and see if there's something there. And so we kind of agreed I was going to be taking this financial risk. He was going to be paying for our apartment and our food, and we're gonna see how this goes.

8:43 Yeah.

8:44 And that's what we did in the earlier years because I put everything back into the company each year to be able to grow it. Because, like I said, I didn't have any cash infusions. So, year one, I don't know what I made, not much, right? Like probably less than $100,000 the company did, like tiny, but that the entire profit I put right back in so that I could get a little more official, like packaging or a little bit nicer of a website.

9:08 I don't, I really don't remember what I spent it on in those earlier years, not much because it wasn't much money. But if I were taking it, I would have never been able to eventually hire people or grow it in a more professional capacity with like, you know, now we have marketing budgets and tech teams and all these things, but those are all built out very, very slowly by never taking money out in the early years.

9:32 It's a good perspective to, I think, bring to people who are at that stage now. We didn't talk about exactly how you figured out this white space. I'd love to hear that story from you.

9:42 Sure. So I was getting engaged, like I said, and I was hyper involved. A, because a lot of women are and they just don't like admit it, but they are, and because I'm kind of a psychopath, and it was like, I'm not gonna wear some ugly ring for the rest of my life that I don't even like. I'm I'm gonna pick it out myself.

9:59 So we went to the diamond district, which was my first experience in the diamond district. It was awful. I don't know if you've walked the diamond district. Don't if you don't have to. Like when the time comes, you just call me because the diamond district is gnarly. It's like all of these 60-year-old men lining 47th Street as if it's a hundred years ago, haggling you.

10:22 You have no idea when you walk into each of these stores. Can I trust a word this person is saying? How do I know I'm buying what they say I'm buying? The taste level, not great. Like, let's just to put it nicely, not great. And I'm coming from the world of fashion where everybody behind the scenes, not everybody, but most people behind the scenes are women, right?

10:42 Because most consumers and most of the household spending power comes from women. And I thought there was just such a disconnect between who's behind the scenes and who's the end user, especially for someone like a bride is typically in her late 20s, and obviously it's a woman, and we just weren't represented at all.

11:02 And so I thought there must be this big opportunity in this really antiquated, very male-dominated industry for a young female point of view. So that was the initial concept.

11:14 I mean, and thank you. I'm glad that once I get to that point that it's not just people who won't relate to me or maybe I can't trust. And there's companies like yours that exist now. When did you make the move into more jewelry than just engagement rings and like see this bigger opportunity?

11:32 It was a few years in. I had worked with many bridal customers, mostly men or couples, but then they wanted my taste level and my point of view and my transparency. And then they were asking for more. Like, okay, great. I love my ring, I love my wedding bands, and now, you know, her birthday's coming up.

11:49 I want a gift for $800. And I couldn't make that for them because everything I did at the time was custom, one of a kind, made right here in New York City by hand, which is how we make our engagement rings. But the way you make an engagement ring is not the same way you make just a pair of like everyday earrings that you want for under $1,000.

12:10 And so that's when I launched the website. It actually was a multi-brand retailer when it launched. I had a bunch of small designers. It was a drop ship model. I didn't own any inventory, just because back to I had no money. So I couldn't buy inventory. I certainly couldn't take that risk. And even that just grew very, very slowly until cut to today.

12:33 It's the much it's the biggest piece of the business. But in the beginning, it was really about this high-touch experience. And I was kind of testing and learning what e-com could be, what the other categories could be.

12:43 I would say an engagering is probably the most important and emotional piece of jewelry that anyone will ever buy or receive. What is the business behind that? Like how early is someone getting into the process? Where are these being sourced from? I think we'll get into lab and natural later, obviously.

13:01 But it's a really big decision. And to take that on as a business is a big responsibility.

13:07 So, yes, it is a huge decision. And it's not only very emotional, it's usually the most money a couple has spent unless they already bought a house. So it's an emotional decision, it's a big financial decision, it's a big deal. So we work with a huge network of suppliers, and I always have. We don't hold a diamond inventory for our bridal rings for a reason.

13:32 We want to be able to curate an assortment for exactly whatever the customer wants. So if you come into me and say, I want to look at three carat elongated cushions, only natural diamonds, and my budget is $30,000. I'll say, no problem. Give me a day or two, come back in, and I will find the best four to five elongated three carat cushions available for you in the world right now within your budget.

13:58 In a day. It might take two days, but like we're quick, we're quick. We've got a we've got a big diamond network. We've been doing this now for 13 years. But the reason we do that is because then we're not trying to push what we're sitting on, right? Like our incentives are aligned. Find you the best diamond that's actually beautiful, which is the most important part of all of it, that you're really, really happy with.

14:20 And I have no reason not to be totally transparent with you. So that's how I've always operated, and that's how we still operate with just total transparency and having incentives be aligned because I think that's the only way you can build trust.

14:34 Speaking of transparency, I think it was a year or so ago that you announced that you guys surpassed $110 million in revenue. I feel like it's kind of a moment for businesses to decide to disclose their revenue. Why did you decide to do it?

14:51 So like a ridiculous reason. But I like in the spirit of transparency, we wanted an exclusive feature for our 10-year anniversary in a publication. And they said they would only give it to us if we disclose revenue. And so we said, okay. Like that was it. I mean, it wasn't this big thing we were waiting to talk about, but we're privately held, we aren't looking for investors.

15:16 There just wasn't a reason to run around talking about it. You know, I don't need to feed my ego publicly. I don't care about that. But I'll do anything if it's right for the business, if it helps the business. And if we can get a standalone article by a major publication, yeah, okay, fine. You know, maybe I'll disclose a stat we've never disclosed before.

15:34 If that's what it takes.

15:35 Yeah. Just so everyone knows it's all it takes from me.

15:39 So I had Pia Mance, the founder of Heaven Mayhem on the podcast about a year ago. And she had just disclosed they hit $10 million in revenue. And it came up, and she was like, it's funny because people hear this number and think I'm rich. Like they think the founder is making $10 million.

15:54 Wouldn't that be nice?

15:55 Did that happen for you? Like, did the perception kind of Yes.

15:58 I can't tell you how many private wealth managers sent me an email and like there was a Forbes article recently about us that talked about our revenue again. I'll just start with, no, I am not rich, right? Like if I ever sell this company, it might be a different story. But I really put everything I can into it and just take out what we need to live.

16:21 And that's a that's a sacrifice I've decided to make. Over the years, it's the number has shifted and it's gotten more comfortable and easier to live. But there were many, many years where we were like truly scraping by. And I could have taken more out, but I've always thought about the long game. I'm not doing this as a get rich quick.

16:42 Clearly, it's been over a decade. And so, yes, I do think it's confusing to see a revenue number and then you think the founder has that. Also, revenue and profitability are very different numbers, very, very different numbers as well. Which I think, unless you're in the world of retail or own a business, you probably don't really understand those economics either.

17:01 Because, you know, why would you?

17:03 I think it's interesting, like a good clarification, because I I get that if you see the founder's face on a magazine and it says $10 million, you're like, oh. Sure. Sure. But it's not the case. It's so far from the case.

17:16 It couldn't be further from the case.

17:18 I want to talk about your personal brand along with the business. I feel like you've shown up quite a bit on the ring concierge Instagram. Was that intentional? I see you've kind of started to separate the two. How do you approach it?

17:31 So in the early years, it was not intentional. I couldn't afford models. I was 26, I became the model, right? Not because I think I look like a model, but because my body parts were free, right? And I needed to build out the social media account. And so I would take all the pictures on myself. And then naturally, that started to create this association between rank concierge and me and my face and my life.

17:55 And then as the business grew, it became very clear that people actually were really engaged with that content. And then it shifted to being an intentional strategy. About a year or two ago, we said, okay, well, this business can't totally revolve around me. How do I start to pull away from it publicly, not behind the scenes?

18:12 I go into the office five days a week, like this is my life. And what we found is it doesn't perform as well, the content without me. I do think there is something to a female founder that's very publicly involved and really believes in her brand and consumers connecting with that and wanting to hear that point of view and not have it just be a faceless brand.

18:36 So this year we've reversed and I'm back in the ring concierge content in a bigger capacity. I mean, I'm I always sign off on every single thing that is going out, every caption, every story, every post. But now my face and my lifestyle is kind of back in there.

18:54 I think one of the most special things about fashion is how the clothes we wear become connected to our favorite memories. Two years ago, I planned a Valentine's Day brunch with my mom, my sister, my two little nieces, and I got us all matching Roller Rabbit pajamas with those little pink hearts. We spent the day making heart-taped pancakes, doing crafts, and just hanging out together.

19:14 And now every time I put on those pajamas before bed or get a picture of my nieces wearing theirs, I'm reminded of that day. And I think that's what makes Roller Rabbit so special. It's a brand that really becomes part of your memories and traditions and includes everyone in your family, from grandkids to grandparents.

19:32 And as we're heading into the holidays, I think we're all looking forward to more of those cozy moments with the people we love. And something I really admire about Roller Rabbit is how they've built their business. For over 20 years, they've stayed true to their signature colorful prints and patterns rather than chasing trends.

19:49 And I think that unique point of view is exactly why they've built such a loyal following. Their pieces are timeless, not just for their patterns, but for the quality. They've maintained relationships with their manufacturers for over two decades, creating thoughtfully made pieces with premium fabrics like pima cotton and washable silk that are meant to be worn and loved for years.

20:10 And they've expanded far beyond the iconic pajamas they're known for. I'm actually wearing one of their sweaters right now, and it's the perfect cozy piece for this time of year. Their new Into the Season collection launches October 15th with cozy knits, beautiful prints, and pieces for everything from holiday parties to staying in with family.

20:30 So whether you're shopping for yourself or starting your holiday gifting, visit rollerbbit.com and take 20% off your purchase of $150 or more with code Victoria20 at checkout. That's R-O-L-L-E-R-R-A-B-B-I-T.com with code Victoria20 for 20% off your order of $150 or more. Terms and exclusions of that.

20:54 If someone's listening and they're about to start a company or they're kind of doing it, looking back, would you recommend to somebody to be like the face of their brand?

21:03 I think if you're a comfortable doing it, like you have to be really comfortable putting yourself out there. I think you gain comfort being on camera. Like that comes with time, probably for anybody that has to be on camera, but you do have to be comfortable with criticism and decide you don't care because there's certainly criticism too, right?

21:23 Like we also hear like, why are you putting this on a brand account? It's not appropriate. It should be a brand account. Well, you know, sure, except for this is actually what's performing. So you kind of have to decide that I'm gonna do what I think is right. But then I think you also need to really be your brand, right?

21:40 Like if I were some older dude and my company was drink concierge and I'm saying this is a company for women, women, it probably would be odd if I were the face of the brand, right? So I think if you're a founder that really is aligned with your brand and your consumer and you're comfortable putting yourself out there, I think it's extremely advantageous.

22:00 We can all think of companies that have done it and it's been wildly successful.

22:03 For sure. And I've think people are trying to do the like the personal brand, like we follow Nicole and we follow Ring Concierge. On that similar note with social media, how do you think about luxury and accessibility? Because it's obviously a luxury product, it's diamonds, it's a certain price point, but people want to feel like they know you, which comes with the accessibility piece.

22:26 Where are you finding that balance?

22:28 So that's a great question. And I love to talk about this with the team as well. We sell a luxury product. We're in a luxury category, right? Diamonds and gold. But I don't want to operate like a luxury brand very intentionally. I think to your point, luxury brands, part of their strategy is to be very exclusive, right?

22:48 And not available to everybody. That's never been why I've wanted to grow this business. I've wanted it to be jewelry, fine jewelry, but that everyone can access and feels comfortable purchasing. I never want someone to walk in our store and feel like, I don't really feel welcome here, which I do think is the feeling you get in a lot of the stores on Fifth Avenue.

23:08 So I don't think you have to choose between offering a really nice product in a luxury category and feeling really welcoming and accessible. The other piece of it is we're very thoughtful about our margins and our markups. We try to keep things really, really affordable within the category we sell. We don't have crazy high markups.

23:29 We should. We would be much more profitable. It'd be then I really could say, like, I'm I'm sitting pretty over here financially. But we don't because we know it's going to price out consumers and we want to make sure our entry price points are really welcoming. And so that's also a big part of our strategy.

23:44 Okay. Should we talk about the topic of lab versus natural? So I actually want to come to this from the perspective of like innovation. Because I think people get, I don't know, they get like exheated about it. But how did it even become a thing? Like, what is actually going on behind the scenes?

24:02 So lab round diamonds have existed for a very long time, but in more of an industrial use. So like the tips of, I think, different cutting tools, like I can't really speak to like the specifics of how they were using them, but they have existed for a long time. They weren't made in a gem quality until the past 10 years or so.

24:24 And so the technology got way better on making them nicer, higher color, higher clarity, bigger sizes that can be cut to the sizes we all see today. And so that technology is actually really impressive and really interesting. And these growing factories are like massive and really impressive. And the amount of heat and pressure you need to make a diamond is actually very, very cool that they're able to now do that in a man-made capacity.

24:52 The popularity grew slowly. And then up until I want to say like 2018 or not that long ago, GIA, which is the Gemalogical Institute of America and considered kind of the authority in diamonds, did not call them diamonds. I think they called them synthetic. And in 2018, they flipped it and basically said, Yeah, these are diamonds.

25:16 Because they are chemically, they're a diamond. It's it's carbon. It's the same thing as a diamond from the earth in terms of the make. And so once they switched that label from a category perspective, consumers, I think, started to think, okay, well, maybe they're okay to buy. And that was really the catalyst for the popularity and now cut to today.

25:37 Obviously, they're everyone's talking about it. Many people are wearing them, whether they're admitting it or not, but it's it's very accepted at this point.

25:45 Yeah. So I actually bought like a fake one on Amazon that I want to show you because, well, this is cubic zirconia. I don't 100% know what that means it's made out of, to be honest. It's almost like a plastic. Okay, that's kind of what I figured. But like this would actually be fake, but then lab is real, it's just different from where it's coming from.

26:07 Correct. So people will still say, oh, labs aren't real diamonds. They categorically are. They're just man-made. Whereas like a CZ is not a real diamond. It's a synthetic. So there's a category of synthetics, which are gonna be like a plastic type of material. And then there are lab grown diamonds, which are diamonds just not from the earth.

26:29 Yeah. It almost reminds me of like a vegan leather versus cow leather versus like a new bio leather. Like they're all kind of leather and like look like it, but what they're made out of makes it real or different. I don't know if you'd agree.

26:42 Yeah, but I mean, I think if you think about like, let's say plether or vegan leather, it doesn't feel the same, it doesn't wear the same, it doesn't breathe the same because that would be the equivalent of a C Z. It's different, right? It's not the same makeup. Yeah. And so that's been why lab grown diamonds have been so accepted.

27:01 They are diamonds. There's no, there's no debating that anymore. You could debate if you are okay with it being a lab-grown diamond versus a natural diamond, but you can't argue that it's not a diamond.

27:13 Yeah.

27:13 Why do you think it's so like heated? I think a lot of the industry took a really hard stance when they started to become popular, that those are not really acceptable in companies that had a lot of stake in natural diamonds, like a debirers and companies like that. And I mean, I still love natural diamonds.

27:33 We still sell a ton of natural diamonds. There really is something cool and special about how old they are, how difficult they are to mine, and if they they could be antique, they could be recycled. Like it's really cool. But there was this big divide in the beginning that a lot of the jewelers were taking a stance to try to protect the natural diamond business.

27:53 We never did that. We always have leaned into choice, and women should have the choice. And we did this before lab grown diamonds, right? Like we would educate you on a low color or a high color because you should have the choice within your budget to figure out what you care most about. And I would usually say, like, go lower in color and go bigger in carat weight, right?

28:13 Like that was kind of what I would always talk about with natural diamonds. Now consumers have the choice of natural or lab, very different price points. And so I think it was so heated because it was almost, you know, put out there that it should be heated by the diamond industry. And I don't think it ever needed to be as polarizing as it became.

28:32 Yeah, it feels so manufactured. Correct.

28:35 Yes.

28:35 And I did notice that you guys are kind of one of the only companies that do both. I feel like most people do take a stand against one or the other.

28:43 They do. And I don't, I don't think it's necessary. I mean, we offer both in so many categories. We've always offered both embridal, even before they can't become popular, because I've always told people, like, if you want to set a literal rock in a ring, I will do that for you. It is your ring. I don't care.

28:59 I'm not the one wearing it. I'm just here to like make dreams happen, right? Yeah. And so if you want a lab grown, like, great, we'll find you the most beautiful lab grown. And so we've always done this for years. And now I think it's just we're more public about that we offer both because the demand for lab is increasing so much.

29:17 What do you think has changed the most with lab being introduced? Because I think everyone's saying, like, the rings are bigger and they're bigger.

29:24 Yeah. Our average ring is now three and a half carats, which is big. That is not the size an average ring was a few years ago. Studs have gotten bigger. I think it's just allowed more people to get the look they always wanted. I think, you know, most women want a big diamond, right? You're not getting engaged in saying I'd like it to be super, super small.

29:45 Like you probably want a big rock, but it used to be really price prohibitive. And now the options have opened up. So I do think that's changed. And I think more women are buying other categories for themselves, self-purchasing, which maybe they didn't historically. Like you could get a big pair of diamond studs now that you just buy for yourself because you got a promotion.

30:05 You don't have to wait around for your 10-year anniversary and talk to your husband about it because it's not the same level of financial investment as it used to be.

30:15 I have heard that maybe it's like kind of like an old five tail. I don't know, but that a gauge bank should cost three months' salary. Is that true? Are you seeing that?

30:24 So it's always been kind of up for debate. I used to always tell people back pre-lab grown, whatever you're comfortable with buying that's going to get her close to the look she wants, that's what you should do. Don't overspend if you can't. It's silly. Like, as much as I love big diamonds, don't get me wrong.

30:42 Like I love big diamonds, it's not something you should be going into debt over. It's meant to be like a token of love, right? Now with lab grown, I think it's very different because you can get something big for a lot less. And so I think that equation has probably shifted. I don't think you need to spend three months' salary to get her a nice lab grown diamond.

31:04 So I think the pressure on men is a lot less. Like they're lucky there that the the price has come down.

31:12 In general, like, what's the price difference between a lab grown diamond and a natural diamond? Same carrot, maybe.

31:19 It's probably gonna be about 70% less. Wow. So, and it depends on the specifics, but ballpark, it's around there, it's significant.

31:27 I think influencers and social media have been changing the wedding industry a lot and like engagements and proposals. Probably the biggest one this summer was acquired style. And ring concierge did her engagement ring. Can you tell us about that process?

31:42 Yeah, so she and her now husband came to us a while ago wanting a ring concierge ring, and she she had an opinion on what she wanted it to look like, but really he did the whole thing. He surprised her. And it's this gorgeous pear diamond. It's a natural, she wanted a natural diamond. It's like truly insane.

32:04 And we we definitely work with influencers, but we usually try to have it be a really organic relationship. You know, we're not out there pitching to random influencers. Come get a ring from us. It's usually somebody comes to us because they already wear the brand, they're already a fan of the brand.

32:19 And then maybe a partnership comes of it, or maybe not. We have a lot of very organic relationships where influencers are actually just buying our products. So we loved working with them. They're truly the kindest people, which is also so nice when you're just working with really nice people and her ring's gorgeous.

32:36 She loves it. Most importantly, she loves it.

32:38 Did you see a spike in her style?

32:41 Pears have been increasing in popularity anyway, but we've definitely seen a spike in customers coming in because they saw her engagement. She is influential.

32:51 Yes, true. Literally. And I think you guys did their wedding jewelry as well. Is that I know oftentimes people borrow and like kind of pull wedding jewelry. Is that something you guys offer?

33:06 We don't, unless you're like an influencer or a celebrity, then we do. So, no, we worked with both of them, her and her sister, to create an entire assortment that they could wear on their on the during the wedding weekend. They had gorgeous dresses. A lot of their dresses were strapless, which is always fun for us when it comes to big necklaces.

33:27 So we were able to put together some major, major diamond looks, which I think was really fun. Like, if you ask me, it was about the diamonds at that wedding, they might feel differently, but like that's how I feel about the wedding.

33:38 So there's this influencer called Kira Kirby. She's an influencer for jewelry, and she does this series of engagement rings you won't see on your high school fully. And they're very unique rings, very cool. I think there's been an increase in unique engagement rings. What are you seeing on your end?

33:56 Yeah, no, we are seeing that. I see that. I love Kira, by the way. Nicest person. Customers want, they've always wanted a custom ring, but they would opt for a really safe design, like a solitaire, or whisper thin is our most famous design. It's been our most famous design for years and years, and it's a very thin solitaire, and it's still very popular, but there's definitely a shift towards unexpected.

34:20 So whether it be how you're setting your stone, maybe it's slanted, right? Or maybe you're doing a pear instead of an oval because everybody has an oval. But then we're also seeing a trend towards chunky, asymmetrical, three stones. I think a lot of this is also because of lab grown. So if everybody, not everybody, but if many more people can now afford three carat oval lab grown diamond, how do you make your ring feel uniquely you?

34:47 And it's going to be through a really cool setting or going to a jeweler who can do custom work. So we're doing a lot more in that world right now with our customers of just designs that aren't so cookie-cutter. What is the most unique ring that you've made? Oof. Okay. So I made a ring for a client a few years ago that's, I think it's a 10 karat pale pink, natural marquee.

35:15 And pink is a very, very, very rare color for diamonds, one of the most rare colors. And then it's set in this like diamond encrusted statement setting. It's not necessarily my style because it's very ornate, but it's so cool and so special. And she loves it. She wears it all the time. She already had a diamond solitaire.

35:35 She wanted something that just nobody else had.

35:38 How much are a typical pink diamond? I know they're really, really rare, but like, can you put a number?

35:43 Well, that diamond was seven figures. Okay, they can easily be there. You could get a really small one that's gonna be a hundred thousand dollars still. Still, but if you want something that's a bigger size, like you're talking millions. Yeah.

35:57 Wow. When you came in, I think the first thing I said to you was, is that an Orium belt? Yes. And I just had Cass on. You guys did a collaboration together. How do you think about collabs as a luxury brand?

36:10 So it's kind, it's actually been a bit of an experiment over the past two years. We've only started doing them fairly recently. What we tried to think about with collabs is how do we offer something to our customer that we couldn't do on our own? Or how do we reach an audience we don't have? So our, I believe our very first collab was with Melbourne Golf, which is a D2C golf brand.

36:32 They have a bigger men's customer than they do a women's customer. And we obviously have women. And in my mind, I was like, okay, the RC girl is probably dating the Melbourne guy. And we did this jewelry collection of charms and a charm bracelet that was a golf club, a tennis racket, all these little, I think our joke was like, who you do sports now at RC.

36:54 But then we also created this golf club with them that had a cutout for your diamond. So your engagement could like pop. And people went crazy for it. Like crazy for it. Because I don't think, I think A, it was people are interested in sports and jewelry, right? So that just made sense. But there was an element of unexpected, this golf club.

37:15 It sold out in like nine minutes. It was crazy. That's what we're trying to do. Like, we wouldn't do it on our own. We're not just making a golf club or making like a tennis racket charm. But when you partner with somebody else, you might be able to create an assortment or reach an audience that you wouldn't normally be thinking about.

37:32 And then it's fun and it's exciting.

37:34 I bet that golf glove just I can imagine the girls.

37:37 So I have three that I like kept for myself because they sold out so fast. I do not golf, but I'm like, one day I'm gonna be so happy I have this golf glove.

37:45 And I love that you said the RC girl is probably dating the Melbourne guy. Right. I actually wanted to ask you about being an entrepreneur and like being in a relationship because I've heard from listeners that they find dating as an entrepreneur particularly difficult. And I've had friends say to me that, you know, I'll tell a guy that I work for myself and they like don't get it.

38:07 Or someone else is like in a relationship with a founder. They're like, I don't know how to support you during this. Like you, I think we're married at the time. But what have you learned being in this kind of like unique position?

38:21 I do think it's tricky because it could go a few ways. Either maybe you're not taking taken seriously, which, like, look, in the beginning, like, I don't know why you would take me seriously, right? Like, I was like, I have no business being in this industry. The bit the company is like this big, but this is like what I'm doing, right?

38:37 And then on the flip side, if it's starting to work, you're probably in a full-blown relationship with your cut, your company, right? Like it takes so much work, so much time, so much effort that it actually is difficult to then give that in a relationship. So you need somebody, I think, that respects you and believes in you and understands that there's going to be sacrifices you're gonna make because you believe in yourself, right?

39:02 And my husband always felt that way, which was great. I got very lucky. Even the decision of like, I'm not gonna take a salary this year, and do we want to take this risk together? He always was supportive of that idea. And then on the flip side, he's an entrepreneur now as well. He wasn't when I started the company, and then he started his own company like nine years ago, maybe eight years ago, and then it flipped.

39:25 Then I had to start taking a salary and he stopped. He wasn't taking a salary, right? And so we understand each other and what it takes, and we've both been willing to take those financial risks, willing to put ourselves out there to grow these things. So I think I got lucky there that he understands and appreciates the pain points and it doesn't impact us.

39:46 Well, thank you for sharing that because I've just had heard that again and again from people, and I wanted to ask someone about it, and you felt like a good person.

39:55 I think the hardest thing would be if somebody didn't take you seriously.

39:58 Yeah, that's like a red flag.

39:59 And meanwhile, you're like killing yourself up till 3 a.m. crying, making no money trying to grow this thing. And if the person you're with is like, why are you doing this? Like that would be tough.

40:09 Yeah, that's like a red flag at this point. Probably definitely a red flag. Yeah, I don't think they're gonna end up coming to you for anything. Also, yours is beautiful.

40:18 Thank you. Can you tell me about yourself? It's not my real engagement ring. Like, I just change them out all the time. Oh depending on the mood. No, this is an oval. I think it's a three and a half carat oval. Wow. It's in our cloud bezel, which I'm obsessed with. It's like puffy and beautiful, and that hit of gold without being too chunky.

40:36 I've been wearing this one now for about a year, and usually I'm switching them out more frequently, but I'm like particularly attached to this one.

40:43 It's beautiful. I had to ask because it was it kept catching my eye.

40:46 You blinded?

40:47unknown Yeah.

40:48 I want to ask about kind of adapting to the level of the business growth personally, because I think sometimes maybe you have a really good year or you hit a milestone. It's like, oh, I'm still kind of mentally, maybe like three months ago, like how do I catch up? Or I'm in a room that is new to me. Like, how did you continue to kind of level up as your business scaled?

41:09 Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I don't think anybody thinks about that when you first start the company because what the company needs of you in the beginning is so different than who you need to be as a leader when it hits different milestones. So in the beginning, it was just all about scrappiness and like figure it out.

41:26 And there's definitely still an element of figure it out that happens every day. But now the biggest part of my job is leading a team, right? We have, I think, about 55 corporate employees. And so that takes up the majority of my time. And it definitely, to answer your question, the business evolved from an employee and headcount standpoint faster than I evolved as a leader.

41:50 And so trying to figure that out has always been something that's tricky to navigate. I don't think anyone starts a company because they're like, I really want to manage a bunch of people, you know, like, or I really want to be dealing with like HR, you know, challenges. Like, I don't think anybody thinks about that when you're starting a company.

42:07 Probably the same way you don't think about, I really want to deeply understand the financials and the PL. Like you're passionate about something, a product, a service. And then you realize, oh shit, I have to figure out all these other things too. And those are the pieces that I think would take me by surprise or were harder to catch up with.

42:27 Like, but they're what makes a company run.

42:30 How did you learn to be a leader? Like, did you have examples? Do you have mentors that you go to?

42:35 I think I just did it wrong long enough where you like learn from your mistakes. No, I mean, I do think when things go wrong, it's really important because that's when you realize you need to evolve. If it were easy the whole time, you wouldn't change. And so the first time I had to let go of an employee, I didn't know how to do that.

42:55 I never never let go of anyone before. And so one of my very first more senior hires, who is still with the company today, she's now the president of the company, came from an HR background. And I didn't even have that many employees. I just recognized very quickly I'm not good at this. I'm not good at managing people.

43:12 I have no idea what an employment agreement looks like, what an exit agreement looks like. I do not know HR. And so she came on in a consulting capacity very early on, and I learned everything from her. She now actually runs all of HR, amongst other things, but I learned from her. And I did it in a similar way to that, the areas I didn't know or understand, whether it be leadership or finances.

43:35 I would bring in consultants. I couldn't afford a CFO for many, many years. I couldn't afford a head of HR for many, many years. So people would come in as 1099s, like 10 hours a week. That's all I could afford. But they were way more experienced than what I could afford to hire internally. And I would learn from them and figure it out and do whatever I could myself and then eventually build out teams when I can afford to.

43:58 I think that's like good for people. Listening to here at an earlier stage that they don't need to hire full-time employees just yet. And they can start contract.

44:07 Definitely. And thinking about the level you really need when you're smaller. I know so many people that wanted to or did start companies and they spent so much time and money on research and development and so much money on building out this senior team or this really experienced team. Sometimes that works, but a lot of times it doesn't.

44:26 And then you've just blown through your entire capital raise or whatever you spent on that on this team that you thought could just do it for you, as opposed to trying to figure out how to test and learn and be scrappy and do a lot yourself. Today with Ring Concierge, what do you look for when hiring?

44:42 This is a topic we talk about all the time and have talked about very recently. I think what's really important on the note of not just hiring experts is to hire people that have more of an entrepreneurial mindset because that's going to come with grit. It's going to come with problem solving skills.

45:02 It's going to come with this internal drive to grow something. Sure, it's nice if you also come with some level of expertise, but you can't teach those qualities. Those are qualities you either have or you don't. And our best employees, our best team members are the people that just naturally operate that way.

45:25 I think I heard you maybe it was in an interview somewhere else doing my prep work, obviously. And you were talking about lessons that you learned from working in the fashion industry and like having a lot of female leaders around you. Most people who listen, it's called fashion and founders. They want to work in the fashion industry.

45:43 Can you speak on that? Because maybe someone's like at their company right now and trying to figure out how they can squeeze the most out of the experience to start something for themselves or maybe end up at working for you.

45:55 Yeah. No, I mean, I do think the fashion industry is really great for women in that you're probably looking up at your boss and she's a woman. I mean, there's obviously men in the industry, but it's not like some of these other industries where you look at the entire executive team and they're all men in suits, right?

46:10 So I do think as a younger woman, there's a lot of inspiring women to be looking up to, which is fantastic. But what I tell everybody, so I mentor for, I'm a Cornell alum and I've been mentoring for the fashion students there a little bit. It's a new thing I'm doing. What I tell all of them, especially the design majors that want to go into fashion design and they're very artistic, you still have to understand the fundamentals of a business.

46:36 Even if you are the designer at a fashion company, if you're not designing product that is commercial and sellable, you're not going to have a job there for very long. Every business, even the coolest, most like sexiest fashion companies still need to drive a profit, right? And so no matter your role, you need to understand what that looks like and how to do that for your role.

47:00 And then you will become a much more valuable employee. So if you're a woman that's in the fashion world right now and is maybe thinking about wanting to make a change or entering the fashion world or wanting to go out on your own, figure out the business fundamentals for your world, right? Like what makes a dress sellable at your current company?

47:16 What isn't working? Those are the takeaways that you can always apply go forward, no matter where you are.

47:22 Is there a question that these students kind of keep coming up with to you, or something that you're like, oh, that wasn't really a problem when I was in college, but you guys are kind of having to face this new thing?

47:32 Well, you know what? So I think being an entrepreneur wasn't a thing people talked about when I graduated. So I graduated in 08. It was a little bit before this world of unicorns, right? It's like before the Glossiers and the Way, OAs and all of these and the Caspers, which, you know, all of that has shifted in terms of what that needs to look like now anyway.

47:53 And so everybody just like wanted a job at a, you know, Bloomingdales, Macy's, Abercrombie. Like that's where we all went off and got jobs. Now the questions I'm getting is they're about like, well, how do I start a company? And so I'm like, okay, that's cool that that's what you want to do, but you know what you need to do first?

48:10 You need to get a job. I can tell you what's not gonna work. Being 18 years old with zero job experience, trying to start a company. Like you've got to build the fundamentals. You have to look at somebody or a business that's already done it. And what can you glean? What can you learn from them? Do that for five years before you come to me and say, now, how do I start a company?

48:30 Because you're just kind of setting yourself up for failure.

48:33 Interesting, because I feel like people go both ways on like, do I go all in on a business or do I go work? And you have a pretty like clear-cut answer.

48:40 I think we look at the like the Zuckerbergs of the world and think, ah, he dropped out of Harvard and started it and look at him now. Well, he's one in a billion that have pulled that off. I would venture to guess you're gonna be better prepared to be successful in life if you're if you're starting your own company, if you have some kind of background in whatever industry or space you might want to be in and learn from someone else's mistakes.

49:05 Learn from someone else's successes. You know, that's actually you're getting paid. It's not only is it free, you're making money learning from somebody else. Do that first before you take this risk on your own business.

49:15 Something I've noticed as well, and I've done, I think, over a hundred of these interviews, and the companies that reach a size like yours of over a hundred million, the founders had a network behind them. Like they didn't just, they were an 18 and didn't know anyone in fashion. Like they knew people who could help them out and teach them how to work Shopify and give them a venue for free.

49:35 You're just like people who wanted to support them. Did you like have that from your peers in your past?

49:40 No, it would have been nice. Really? I definitely have a very smart circle, um, successful circle of friends and family, but nobody in this industry. Very few of my friends are in. I had a couple that went into fashion retail, but you know, like all of us started out at Bloomingdales, basically, or Mises.

49:59 Like nobody was doing this. So I kind of had to figure it out, which takes longer, right? Maybe if you step out of college at 18 and you're really well networked and have some kind of financial padding, I guess you could take the risk. I didn't have that. I grew up in western New York, going to like, you know, a very average public school.

50:22 Nobody I knew in my entire life was in the fashion world. I didn't even know anybody in New York City. So I started from scratch and had to figure it out. I didn't have that cushion to fall on, and so I had to do it in a different way.

50:37 But I like that so that for anyone listening, they're not, it feels more accessible to get to where you are now.

50:43 Yeah, I mean, it's definitely doable. I mean, like so few people have the network and are walking into life that way. And if you have it and you're not utilizing it, like I guess that's on you. But it's also super doable to do it coming from a totally different background without any of that.

51:01 Have your friends and your kind of friendships changed a lot being a founder now?

51:06 No. No, no, my best friends are my same best friends that I graduated with. Um, we're together all the time. We all do very different things, but you know, it doesn't matter.

51:18 Yeah. And to kind of close out, I know that Ring Concierge took on a little bit of investment. What is your thought process now around venture capital money, around taking on investment, maybe selling the company one day?

51:33 So about two years ago, I sold 5% to one of my long-term clients who had exited his business and started his own fund. And he's him and his wife, big believers, longtime customers, and we wanted to support retail expansion stores. And stores are really capital intensive. And, you know, like I said, I'm not secretly sitting on this pile of money.

51:59 And so we needed to raise capital to be able to expand our store footprint. So we had a very intentional reason and a need, and it wasn't a large percentage because I wasn't interested in PE money, which, you know, would be the next most viable route for a company of my size. I have a lot of guy friends in PE, and no offense to them.

52:21 I have no intention of answering to them right now. And so my goal is not to sell a majority steak until I'm ready to sell the whole thing. I don't think I would do particularly well reporting into a PE firm every day. I think I'm better off growing it on my own and then when I'm ready to exit to sell the entire company.

52:41 Well, I have some speed round questions. Great for you. Okay. This might be hard. Can you, if you can only pick one, would you do lab or natural?

52:51 Of course, I won't make this fast because it depends on the category. But let's just say we're talking about an engagement ring and there's not budget constraints. I would go natural. I still love the charm of a natural diamond.

53:03 I think the consensus I've heard from my friends, and granted, like none of them are engaged, but is that they want a natural engagement ring, but they would do lab for like anything else, basically.

53:15 You should totally do lab for studs, like if we're just being honest, right? Like pieces that aren't super emotional or sentimental, or you don't intend to pass down one day, like lab is great for that. But if you really want it to have this deeper meaning, a natural kind of just it has it, right? It's so old, it's so special.

53:36 They're they're hard to find, they're hard to get. Like there is something different about the feeling you get. Um, and I understand why there's still the appeal.

53:46 I like that you aren't like team one or the other, because sometimes it's kind of hard where you're like, okay, you have a a reason to sell me lab or natural, you know.

53:54 Yeah, I think I think that's the beauty of it. There's choice available, and the decision you make for one product category, like earrings, might be very different than the decision you make for an engagement ring, and that's fine. That's the beauty of it. You can do both.

54:08 Okay, is there an engagement ring design of 2026?

54:12 Haircut for sure. Yeah.

54:14 Acquired style. Acquired style. Do you have a fashion or jewelry hot take?

54:20 I think you can wear bigger diamonds doing casual things than people are comfortable with. Like I will wear eight carat studs at like school drop-off. No problem. No shame in my game. I'll get on the subway with them. And I think a lot of people are afraid to do that. Like, I just like the way it looks.

54:37 I feel like I'm prettier when I have diamonds on because you're distracted. So that's my hot take. Like, just go as big as you can. There's it always looks good.

54:45 And then do you have a jewelry industry misconception?

54:48 Yeah, I think a lot of people believe you're gonna get a better deal going to like a guy, like your local jeweler, the diamond district. Like I hear so many people say, Oh, I got this really good deal because I like I know a guy. Spoiler alert, they're not actually cutting you a deal. It's part of what they're making you feel.

55:06 They're making you feel like you're getting a deal. You're probably paying the exact same price as everyone else, and as what you could pay somewhere else. So just go to a company that you feel like you can trust, you like the quality, the designs. I guarantee you the prices are all very, very similar.

55:23 People love to say, like, I know a guy. I know a guy. That's their whole business. Like, people will say, Oh, I got my ring from a wholesaler. Like, well, by definition, wholesalers don't sell to consumers. So that was a retailer that made you feel like he was a wholesaler. It's it's kind of the whole shtick of the diamond industry.

55:41 They make you feel like you're getting these deals and they're just charging you retail prices. Do you have any upcoming announcement? We have a very cool tennis bracelet and necklace, like not tennis tennis campaign coming out in October. I can't share all the details, but it's gonna be really, really good.

55:59 You need to do like a collab with the US Open or something. I know. I feel like that might be on a budget, but maybe they like have like a discount for female business owners.

56:08 Maybe one of the athletes. Who knows?

56:10 Yes. We do work with a bunch of the tennis players, actually.

56:12 Yeah. And where can everyone find you?

56:14 Follow us on Instagram at ring concierge.

56:17 Amazing. Well, thank you so much. I think this is so interesting. I say that the podcast at the intersection of fashion, tech, and culture. And I think the innovation side of the lab grown engagement rings are kind of just like a hot cultural topic, I think, more than ever. And then fashion, of course.

56:32 So I love your perspective being able to kind of bring that all together.

56:36 Well, thank you for having me. This is so much fun. Thank you.