The Woman Building the Buzziest Brands

0:00 We were really one of the first ones to do that viral business model, and we didn't intend on that. This is a really new way of working, and you're not on a traditional fashion calendar. So we are just really good at making the impossible happen. I've been doing this for over 20 years. We built some of the biggest brands that you know, like ALC, Rag and Bone, Theory, Vince, DVF.

0:26 We're your operating partner.

0:28 Fashion and Founders is your resource for breaking into fashion, leveling up your career, and building a breakthrough business. So let's get into this week's episode. Hello, and welcome back to Fashion and Founders Podcast. My name is Victoria Smith, and this week I'm joined by Ashley Leo, the founder of the Leo Group and the woman behind influencer brands like the Bar and Fifi.

0:47 Ashley has over 20 years of experience in the fashion industry and was building brands like ALC, Rag and Bone, and DVF behind the scenes before starting her own business. Ashley speaks to the shift in retail from department stores, social media, and the future of how businesses will operate. And I know that influencer brands come with a lot of critiques and questions, so we get into that from the drop models that sell out, the materials the brands use, and are these just white-labeled brands?

1:12 I think you guys will find this episode really interesting. And if you could leave the podcast a rating or review and follow or subscribe to the show wherever you listen, it really helps the podcast grow and continue to get incredible guests like Ashley. So let's get into the episode. Hi, Ashley. Hi.

1:27 I'm very excited to have you on. You've been recommended by two past guests. That's so nice. Thank you for having me. People have been asking for you to come on. That's amazing. So, for people who don't know who you are, who don't know about your business, can you give a little introduction?

1:43 Yes. So I have a company called TLG, and it's a place where we build brands. I hate to use that term, like brand builder, because I do think it's really overused, but essentially that's what we do. And we're also like modern marketers. It's sort of a place where I can bring all of my experience in one place so that I can help more people and more companies grow.

2:12 And you have a previous career in fashion before you went out on your own. You were at ALC, Fleur de Mall. What did those experiences teach you to make you feel ready to start a business?

2:23 So I've been doing this for over 20 years. So those experiences taught me everything. I started my career working for this woman who had a showroom. So this is like back in the day when retail was everything. Sachs and Neiman's and Netaporte and huge massive businesses. And you were only able to survive if you, you know, your brand was picked up by one of these retailers.

2:53 This woman, Betsy Eisenberg, is who I worked for. And we built some of the biggest brands that you know, like ALC, Rag and Bone, Theory, Vince, DVF, like the list goes on. And I was so fortunate to work with her because she, similarly to what I do, she would find talent. But the talent at that time was a designer.

3:18 And they would come to her with like three pieces or, you know, whatever their idea was, and they would pitch to her. And she was really so talented. She was able to like see the vision of what that brand could be. And she would work directly with them to grow the business, merchandise the collections, work on the assortment.

3:40 So I was from a very young age in the showroom with her and these designers working on collections, scaling the collections. I really learned how to build a business from the ground up. And like I said, I did that for eight years. I also worked with Trish from she has a new brand now called TWP. If you're familiar, she's also amazing, like such a like cutthroat businesswoman.

4:08 And she taught me like everything about storytelling and like merchandising collections. Like we would sit in front of a rack for literally days and like talk about like what we're pairing with what, what is our customer looking for? What is the story? And I mean, so both of those women really taught me so much.

4:31 And then after eight years, I left. I wanted to do something a little bit more intimate, I guess. And so, because these were like huge department store businesses, so like a lot of travel, international travel, and I went to a brand called Fleur du Mall, and I worked there for about four, a little more than four years.

4:55 That was like a more scrappy, smaller business, and so I really learned like the ins and outs of building a brand, like from seeing like the sales side, the e-comm, customer service, like really the nitty-gritty of the brand. And so that was like a great experience for me. But at that time, things really started to change in the industry, and like department stores were no longer like as successful in selling the product they were buying.

5:26 And so that's when I really saw a shift in the market.

5:30 And so, is that when you saw this opportunity to partner with influencers? For people who don't know, you partnered with the bar, Fifi to build these brands. So, when did you first see there was a lucrative opportunity here?

5:42 So in 2019, I saw a massive shift, like I was saying, and it was like pretty incredible. Our our business overnight just like was cut in half almost. And I just knew I was like, something's changing. And this is when everyone was launching like e-commerce and finally like putting money into their own websites and figuring out how to drive traffic there, but influencers were still so new, it was really like the time of like revolve brand trips and more organic, like girls coming together, traveling, wearing collections or brands.

6:21 And so we were doing a little bit of influencer gifting, but it was really like a push towards e-comm. And so when I saw the decline in the department store business, I just said to myself, if I don't change careers now, I'm gonna be out of a job. And so that's when I really, you know, I quit my job.

6:43 I got rid of my like cute West Village apartment and moved in with my boyfriend. And I was like, I'm gonna do something different. And so I was like thinking about it, and one day it just hit me. I was like, we need to work with influencers, they're speaking directly to the customer. And that's like a big part of this, I think, that people don't realize.

7:05 Before that shift in the market, you really had to like trust buyers and store associates to sell your brand and the storytelling behind your brand. So I would be traveling all over. Like I was in London six times a year, going to Harrods to train associates on like the brand story of ALC, for example.

7:27 And you walk out the door and you leave, and you don't know if they're really teaching the customers everything that you would want them to know. And so, with this new model that like really came to me at that time, I was like, this is incredible. We can talk to our customers directly. I'll tell you a little bit more about that later.

7:48 But like our DMs are everything. Like, that's where we learn what our customer wants. And that's like something that is just you can't recreate that by working with like a store.

8:00 So, this is one of the reasons I was really excited to have you on, is because you come to these influencer brands, creator economy, from such a different angle. And like you've been in the department stores, everyone knows they're suffering, like they're going bankrupt. And then you have platforms like Shop My that are essentially making influencers into a retail storefront themselves.

8:22 Right. But you're coming in, and instead of seeing, okay, this influencer can sell another brand's product, let's make your own product. So, how did this first relationship with the bar come about?

8:34 I basically just reached out to every influencer that I knew and had a relationship with. And one stuck, and we met, and just from that first meeting, we were like, oh my God, we have to do this. And we did it. That was six years of my life. I put everything, heart and soul, into that business. And we were really one of the first ones to do that viral business model, and we didn't intend on that.

9:04 Not a lot of people know this, but when we launched the brand, because of my background, I took our first collection to Paris. I sold it to Intermix, Norgaten, really prestigious European stores. We launched a Moda Operande with the bar. We had our silk twist dress. It retailed for like $4.95. It was 100% stretch silk.

9:28 That's how we launched the brand. We wanted an elevated contemporary brand. And so it was incredible the way we launched it. It wasn't until COVID that the sweatshirt came out and became a hit and became like the bread and butter of the brand. But that's not how it started. So yeah, it was an incredible learning experience for me.

9:52 I don't think I would have the confidence to do TLG if it weren't for the bar because I just learned so much. It was such an exciting time in my career. But, you know, new day.

10:06 And are you coming in? Maybe it's different now because you have the business, it's an LLC, it's separated from you. Yes. Were you directly a co-founder? Like you, Ashley, yes. For the bar? Yeah. Yes. So we were co-founders. How is that business dynamic different from what you're doing now with the Leo group?

10:26 Good question. I want to help more people and more brands. And so this was the best way to set that up so that I could do that. Instead of me as a person partnering with, you know, so many different people, it's a place where I can bring all of my team in one place. So I'm still working with the majority of my team that I have since 2019 across production, design, marketing, you name it.

10:58 And it's a place where they can feel secure and I can bring more people and more brands into the situation versus just me stretching myself too thin, trying to be all the things.

11:12 When you partner with an influencer, you are bringing these connections, the production, the manufacturing. Like can you take us a little bit into the behind the scenes of if we were gonna partner, what are you offering? And like, what is my offer?

11:26 The way that I like to position it is we're here, we're your operating partner. So we want to take your dreams and ambitions and like make them a reality. And we sort of have, because I've been working with a big part of my team for so long, they're so used to this fast-paced drop model that we do, that we're also good at it.

11:57 And we can like pivot it. This is a really new way of working, and you're not on a traditional fashion calendar. So we are just really good at making the impossible happen across all those departments. So we're like true operators and marketers. You know, we're always testing. So it's like you don't know what your best seller is going to be until you're taking it to market.

12:23 And my job is to figure out what those things are and then make them come back as quickly as possible and also like work with the talent to come up with that creative that's going to keep that momentum going for that product. So my team is just really good at executing on that from all sides design, production, customer service, fulfillment.

12:51 The list goes on because it's a very different model, like I said. So everyone has to be working at a similar pace to be able to make that happen.

13:02 I'm excited you brought this up because this is something I wanted to ask you about. Some people, I'm sure you're aware, but like don't like this model. The like drop, sell out, I never see it again, right? Right. Can you tell us from your perspective, the operations, why this works? Because I can get it from a consumer standpoint where I'll see something like I wanted to buy this thing and it's sold out.

13:25 Like I literally can't buy it from your standpoint, being the business operator. Why is it working for you guys?

13:32 Well, no one is trying to intentionally sell out and be like sold out. Like you want to sell every piece you absolutely can. We're self-funded businesses, so we're learning as we go. We're increasing inventory every single time. But I really like pre-order for this reason. It allows us to test. Okay, here are the 10 products that we want to do.

13:56 We really believe in these 10. We don't know which one's gonna be the best seller, sell out. And so pre-order is amazing because you can say, okay, this is the one that's working. Let's put it on pre-order. But I think that's like a misconception. No one is, at least we're not, trying to intentionally like sell out in five minutes.

14:17 We're trying to give the customer buy now, wear now product that moves on a current social and marketing timeline. We're not making product six months in advance for four seasons a year where it's gonna sit on a shelf. We're we're moving incredibly quickly. And I think that's why the drop model kind of like works.

14:42 And so if the customer's okay with pre-order, I think you know everyone's happy in that sense. But we're always like increasing our inventory.

14:52 I love hosting and really leaning into the theme from the decor, the activities, and of course the fashion. And there is one brand I always look to that loves a theme and traditions as much as I do, and that is Roller Rabbit. They have prints and patterns for every season and occasion and make something for everyone in your family.

15:12 I know this firsthand because two years ago I hosted a Valentine's Day brunch with my mom, my sister, and my two little nieces, and I got us all matching Roller Rabbit pajamas with those little pink hearts. The food was Valentine's Day themed, the activities, and the cherry on top was the pajamas. Now, every time I wear them, I'm reminded of that day.

15:31 So with the holidays coming up, whether you're planning a cozy movie night with friends, making cookies with your family, or having a solo morning at home, I think it's such a fun excuse to make those moments feel a little bit more festive with Roller Rabbit. And Roller Rabbit is launching their new Mary in Print collection tomorrow, October 27th, with festive pajamas, cozy sweaters, warm layers, and so many fun gifts for everyone on your list.

15:56 I am so excited to see it because I am planning another holiday brunch very soon. Roller Rabbit is timeless not only for their signature prints, but their quality. They've maintained relationships with many of the same family-owned factories they started working with over two decades ago. And they've expanded beyond their iconic pajamas into accessories, home, and ready-to-wear, like this sweater that I'm wearing.

16:18 It is so soft. So there are so many ways to incorporate their pieces into your holiday traditions. So whether you're shopping for yourself, your best friend, or your family this season, head to rollerabbit.com and use code Victoria20 for 20% off your order of $150 or more. That's R-O-L-L-E-R-R-A-B-B-I-T.com with code Victoria20.

16:40 Terms and exclusions apply. Is the goal at some point to just have a standing stock? How just like kind of always available?

16:48 It's just hard to even like determine that because if it's a bestseller and the appetite's there, then it's going to be gone in a week. Like we saw that with the Fifi collection. Bridal is something that we really believe in to be should be available all year round. Our customers are always getting engaged and married, and we get so many DMs about it.

17:11 So we're trying to always keep it in stock, but it's hard to keep in stock and understand, you know, which styles are they obsessed with, which sizes are selling the best. And so these are things that we're like working through as we grow. But yes, to answer your question, I think we should try to have core and best sellers on the site for people to shop.

17:33 I wanted to ask you about this because I think it's the main critique I see and a theme I've heard from guests is people aren't really out to get you. Like there aren't these business people in other industries, maybe, but like we're not trying to upset the consumer in these ways that you feel upset by.

17:50 Right. I just was wanting to get your perspective on this because I'm sure you've seen comments. I mean, other brands have had this critique as well. But I think what I've heard from many other founders is like, no stock, no sales. I don't want to sell out.

18:04 And it sounds like it's your but we're also trying to sell every month. So in that, if you're thinking about it from that perspective, you have to have cash flow to put into the next collection that you're dropping. So, you know, it would be hard, unless you're a Skims, to go super deep in one collection and like put all of your eggs in that basket because you're coming out with something a month later.

18:29 So I think the the overarching theme is like buy now, wear now, making trend forward clothing that people are really excited by more frequently that are tied to these marketing campaigns that are meaningful. And so that just all has to kind of do with the balance of inventory.

18:50 Got it. I think we should get into Fifi. It's a great case study for your business. And we've kind of been mentioning it. This launched, I believe, a year ago.

18:59 Yes. Less than a year. Yeah. November 19th, I believe.

19:04 It's been everywhere. I feel like it's one of the buziest influencer brands at the moment. How did you meet Bridget and Danielle, acquired style? Do you know them? Personally, no. Okay. You'll have to meet them. So yeah. I'm like, I shouldn't call her by her username, but I feel like that's what people have to call her.

19:21 Yeah. So how did this relationship begin?

19:24 I've known them for a while. We live in the same neighborhood. Oh, funny. Yes. They are incredibly hard workers. Like when I tell you, I would see them on my street shooting at like 8 a.m. on a Saturday when I'm like taking my two-year-old, like, I don't know, somewhere. And I just saw like their hustle from day one.

19:47 I like told my husband I want to work with them because I just, you know, it just shows how much they care. And I could just tell that they would be great. Through our conversations, they had always dreamed of doing a brand. Like they've been talking about this for so long. And so it was just right time, right place, right people.

20:10 It was kind of like we we met for maybe six months or so, and you know, we're brainstorming and talking, and we finally just made it happen.

20:20 So when it comes to the finances of the business, obviously it takes capital to launch a brand. Is it you as in TLG? Is it the influencer? Are you guys both kind of investing in this?

20:31 Yeah, I think that it depends. Every brand is different, every deal is structured in a different way. But I will say that TLG does have the capabilities to invest. And that is, you know, most of the time a decision that we come to agree with the partner on.

20:50 Can you take us into the day-to-day of these operations? How much are you involved, Bridget and Danielle? Are you at these photo shoots? Like what does a week in the Fifi business look like?

21:01 So we're like true partners. Like I said, we are operations and we are just steering the ship or supporting them in their dream. So they are fully involved. And I think this is a misconception, too, about influencer brands. This is not an incubator. It's not just like using somebody's like face to put on a brand and hoping it sells.

21:26 Like this is their mission and their dream. And I am there as a partner to support them in however, whichever way I can. So our team from conception of the brand, the design process, like our design team is working with them closely on a daily basis on what it is they want to do. And then they're coming into the office and doing those design meetings, and we're talking about production, deliverables, and all the things.

21:54 And then when it comes to marketing, like that is marketing is Everything, as I'm sure you know, and you had your own marketing business, so you get it. So we're tying those directly to product launches. A lot of times, like in these brainstorming sessions that we all have together, they have an idea about like a marketing idea, and the product is there to support that marketing idea.

22:20 It they kind of both complement each other, and both of those pillars of a brand are like so tied to the talent because those are the two most important things product and marketing. And so we're just there, our team is there to support them and execute on those things. But we're all in Tribeca. TLG's in Tribeca, our office, the twins live there, I live there.

22:47 So we're just like constantly meeting, talking on the phone 24-7. You know, it's not like something where they just come in when it's all said and done and like shoot some photos.

23:00 I think that is sometimes the perception. Yeah. And, you know, let's say if they do come on eventually, I'm almost glad to have you on first because I think sometimes it's hard for influencers to get the legitimacy that they honestly deserve. What do you think is one of the most like misunderstood pieces of working with an influencer or like the value that they can bring, whether it's to another brand or their own and they're building it?

23:28 I love that question because I you're right. There's like so much talk around this subject. Every influencer is not created equally, is like what I will say. The twins, which I'll I'm like on their own personal press tour right now, I guess. But like they are just so amazing, like they are such hard workers and driven human beings.

23:51 Like they should, they deserve to have be entrepreneurs. If they want to invest in a company, if they want to start a brand, like if they're driven to do that and they're working at it every day, they should be supported in that. And we should be building women up to do that versus trying to rip them down because they have a platform and and whatnot.

24:17 A big thing that I think about is when you do think about 10 years ago and what it took for a brand to get out there in terms of advertising spend and marketing and like all the things that went into a brand, it's all the same. You know, we were always spending money, spending budget, trying to get your product out into the world.

24:42 And so, like when you compare it to that, they have the audience. They've built the audience over time. And I think the most successful creators are ones that built an audience through something that like was very passionate for them. So with Bridget, it was hair, for example. Like she's super passionate about hair.

25:05 She was doing hair videos all the time. Her audience, like, was very into that, and that's how she grew. So it's not like she was like, I want to be an influencer. I'm just gonna do content every day of this, this, this, this, and all these random things that she was like wanted to show. It evolved into her life.

25:24 So I know that you also know Colby. She's the founder of Swan Beauty. She came on the podcast after The Bachelorette. Big moment in the social media world. You introduced them. How do you think of your role? Is it more than the business partner, but also like a strategic advisor for these girls? Yes.

25:40 Can you tell us more about that?

25:42 I'm sort of like a mom, like a mom of these girls. Like Juliana, who's here right now, calls me the influencer whisperer because I don't know what it is. We become very close. And I just have a way to understand, I just know what's gonna work. And like I just come up with really strong ideas from a marketing sense, I think.

26:04 And with Colby, I've known their family for a really long time, and I've worked with their company a little bit. And so I was like, we should do this. This would be a sick thing to do. This is gonna help you, Swan. This is gonna be great for The Bachelorette. Let's do it. And it worked out like it was amazing.

26:26 On this idea of like a strategic partner, I think influencers get really boxed into that title, and they're like, oh, you're just an influencer. It's kind of hard to gain another title along that way. It takes a lot of work. Bridget and Danielle are now founders of this brand. How are you kind of shaping the narrative that, like, yes, they're founders now too, if people want to keep them in a box of like you're an influencer?

26:49 I think that this is going to be an evolving topic. I think we're in the heat of the moment right now, and it's something that I personally want to like educate people on and work through because I really feel they deserve to have the things they have. They're working hard for them. They are founders, they're founders of a brand that's already seeing success within under a year, and that's to be celebrated.

27:16 We'd be celebrating if it was, you know, a man that was doing it. And I just think that we should be supporting women and their founders first, I would say.

27:27 If someone's listening who is a creator, they have a platform and they want to start a brand. Do you have advice for them of building their personal brand as an authority figure, as like a thought leader? They feel like, oh, I got boxed into being an influencer. I want to be seen more as a founder. Are there things you've noticed in narrative or communication that helps people be seen as both?

27:53 I don't think you can like shortcut it. Like you have to do the work. The work is gonna shine through. And I think that's like goes for everything. If you want to start a brand and you're 25 and you've never done anything in that industry before, like it's going to be difficult. I think having work experience, getting out there, doing it day after day, your audience will see that.

28:20 Your customer will see that. Like that to me is kind of like the baseline for everything.

28:26 If someone's listening and they want to work with you at some point, what do you look for in a partner?

28:32 Kind of on what I just said, I think it's having that grit and that hustle is something that I recognize right away. You know, you have it or you don't, kind of thing. And it doesn't matter if you have 20 million followers or 100,000 followers. If you are passionate about what you're doing and you have like a reason and you will stop at nothing, like that's a partner for me.

29:01 Because that's how I work, by the way. I will put 110% into anything that I do. So I'm looking for that. Maybe sounding a little tough, but it's true.

29:16 I think it's fair in a business.

29:17 Yeah. And, you know, like I said, a lot of people come to me and they have followings, but I can just tell like right away that this is a side project. It's not something that they're super passionate about. And whether I can take it 99% of the way or not is not the question. It's I don't really want to do that.

29:39 I'm I want to be a support for people to be able to do this in an operationally successful way.

29:49 Does follower count matter to you? Like, I because these girls have like over a million. Yeah. Right. Like, do you think 100,000 followers? It does not matter to you. You don't think it matters?

30:00 One of the companies or brands that we're going to be starting next year is with someone who doesn't really even have a big following, but they have cultural relevance. They have amazing resources in terms of like events and activations and just like exciting things we can be doing. They have international resources.

30:24 And so, no, follower count is like the least interesting thing. It's amazing. If you can check all boxes and have the hustle, the drive, the follower counts, the budget, like the finance to put behind it. That's great. You know, that's a win-win. Then you get a skims, but it's really hard. You'd be surprised how hard it is to find truly like perfect strong partners.

30:53 Yeah, I bet.

30:54 Are you focused on keeping your partners as influencers, like in the content space or other areas as well?

31:01 Other areas, definitely.

31:03 Like sports, or like what would an example?

31:05 Sports would be amazing. That's actually something that is on our dream board, I would say. But yeah, different and also just different categories in general.

31:15 These businesses, like anything where it's related to a person, a celebrity business, there's a key person factor where you might find out about it because you know that Shay Mitchell does Bays, like the suitcase, you know, or something like that. It might not be why you purchase, but they are kind of intertwined with the brand in a way that other ones aren't.

31:36 Are there like precautions you put into this? I'm just thinking like influencers get canceled, or it's like their likability factor is so important, I think, to their business. Is this something that you are thinking about?

31:49 I think the ultimate goal of any business or brand that you're starting should be that the brand exists eventually on its own without the talent being, you know, shooting every campaign in every look. Eventually, the brand should be able to stand on its own. So we're always working towards that. And then separately, there's nothing really, and you know, maybe it sounds irresponsible.

32:14 We're we're not putting safeguards in place and trying to like fool the customer or whatnot. Like I am sort of like ride or die for my girls and my partners, and like we'll have we'll navigate it together. Whatever happens, we'll navigate together.

32:31 How does a brand, and like what is the plan, I guess, achieve that separation of I am the founder of this brand and somebody can discover it, not even knowing who I am? Because honestly, the only one that's happened to me for was the bar, actually. Cause sometimes I'll hear these other brands are like, nobody knows that it's me.

32:51 And I'm like, what are you talking about? Your name's on the brands. Like, how do they not know it's you? But then I was thinking, like, I didn't know it was Bridget behind the bar, honestly, for years. So, like, how do you achieve that?

33:04 Yeah, it takes time and growth and product. People need to fall in love with your product at the end of the day. That's what we're doing here. And so if somebody buys something from your collection and it's their absolute favorite pant, they love the fit, they they're gonna buy it in every single color no matter what.

33:24 It's more just like the barrier to entry. And then if they fall, if we've done our job right, and then if they love the product from there, then they're a customer. So I think as those two things like start to evolve, then maybe the talent can like back away a little bit and not necessarily back away, just not being front and center of every photo shoot.

33:46 But that doesn't mean that they're not like now getting in deeper with a different part of the business.

33:52 Yeah.

33:52 Maybe they're shifting what they're doing into something else. Maybe they're, you know, really excited by like the PL all of a sudden, and they want to like get into the nitty-gritty with that. So it just depends. But I think that yeah, it just happens with time and growth and product.

34:11 Something else kind of in the nitty-gritty that I'm curious about is like the materials of a brand. I think much more recently, people are like, I don't like polyester. And it's like, polyester has kind of been like a little bit evil in the fashion for a while, but now all of a sudden it's kind of top of mind for people.

34:28 How are you approaching materials manufacturing, like that quality piece for the business? So it's timeless.

34:36 Going back to what I was saying earlier about having that direct feedback from the customer, we've really got that now. So if we do something wrong, we know about it and we can fix it. And it that's kind of like just the mission we're always on. So if they really like something we came out with, but they don't like the composition of that, then we're gonna just do everything we can to find something else.

35:01 It's just a lot of times there's not, you can't always get your final product by using different, you know, fabric contents. You want something that's under $100 that you can throw in a luggage and take with you that won't wrinkle, that you can throw in the washer and dryer. It's like you want all these things, but then you also want it to be 100% cotton, just for example.

35:27 So we're taking everything into consideration, always trying to improve what we're offering and what we're bringing to market.

35:34 What is this relationship like with the consumer? Because they're not just a consumer, they're the followers of these girls who they probably feel like they're their friend, honestly. So, what is the communication like?

35:47 The communication's amazing. Like if I'm being honest, because we just did a pop-up. So we were there for three days all day long. And, you know, that's something else that I just have to give it to the twins because they, you know, they didn't go home. They were there all day meeting customers and meeting their community.

36:07 And I was out there five and a half months pregnant, like styling people and telling them about the collection because I that I love that part of it. It's such a positive thing to be able to connect directly with your customer. There is nothing better.

36:24 There's definitely many ways that these brands that you work with are operating differently than a traditional fashion brand. How is the social media in those campaigns, do you think, different and maybe better landing because these girls are just so native on social media? Are there different things that you guys know that maybe well you just have to be recreating the narrative every single day?

36:51 Like marketing is moving so fast, and we want to be the best, and we want to be first. And so we are always thinking about what it what do they want to see? What's next? How do we make this exciting? How do we stand out? It's a huge part of what we do, especially like approaching Q4 in holiday. That's like such a congested selling time of year, and to be able to like break through that, stand out, hit your goals, all of that, it's really hard, but it's also really exciting.

37:24 Like, I love Q4 because it's like that's when you can kind of have fun with it and think outside the box a little bit. So we are working on, and that's where like pivots come in. It's really important to have a team that understands that pivoting is the way we have to work because something, an idea that we had a week ago, like might be stale come November.

37:52 So we really have to be coming up with new fresh ideas and then executing those. Like Juliana's always like, Why are you always shooting? I'm like, Because we this is what our business is. Like, we're we're trying to bring the best content. Like before, you would just you would just shoot a campaign, and it would be like the one campaign that would last you for the entire season.

38:20 You just see those lookbook images, you know, it doesn't work like that anymore. That's not exciting for the customer.

38:26 You mentioned at the beginning, you have this very kind of special way of operating with your team. You can do the impossible. What are the timelines like? You have the idea, the product comes, you do another draft of it, they shoot it, it drops, people receive it at home. Like, yeah, what is that whole loop?

38:44 Well, the designs and everything come earlier. Design, production, then you get samples in. And then the marketing social part of it is very fast.

38:55 So it's like holidays in production right now.

38:58 It's in production, yes. But like we will be shooting everything like this coming week. And then we will be shooting additional things as it gets closer.

39:08 How do you balance? Because maybe you give your girls advice. Like, once you start a brand, they now sell activeware, right? Are they still partnering maybe Shop My Whatever with other activeware? Or do you find that that is maybe a tension that comes when like an influencer starts their own brand?

39:30 In general, with any of our clients, we encourage them to do like what feels right to them. And so we're never gonna say, like, we don't think you should do this, because no, I think they it's their business, they know what makes sense and you know what they want to support. I think as your business grows, then maybe you're starting to shift a little away from and just in general, like brand deals, maybe, but actually we're seeing quite the opposite where brand deals are becoming bigger and more robust to support these women, you know, across our different partners who are now founders.

40:14 Like now they're getting bigger and better brand deals because of that. So interesting. Yeah.

40:19 I have heard from quite a few founders who also have their own social platforms that it allows them to not take money and a salary out of the business because they can support themselves off of the content. Yeah. So exactly. It's kind of a good gig to have that. You're telling me. Yeah, it is. I am curious about your thoughts on the future of the creator economy because you have a really unique perspective into this.

40:47 You're one of the only people I can think of with this role. You're seeing these girls shift in the world from influencer to founder. A lot of your work honestly reminds me of what Emma Greed did for the Kondashians and Skims and Good American. And I think the way that reality TV stars were viewed a decade ago, influencers are kind of going through that shift as well in society.

41:12 How are you thinking about the business that you're building and the future of this huge growing space?

41:18 Yes. Great points. I and I think about all of these things daily. So it's changed so much, like away from celebrity and really like more into influencer model. Like this is a great example. Like my husband has a brand. And Justin Bieber wears his brand every week. Oh my god. Do you think he sees any sales from that?

41:43 No.

41:44 Really?

41:45 No, because it's like there's something that has really shifted in these bigger creators. I'll say he's a creator, he's a celebrity. He's, you know, as big as a celebrity as you can get. People want, I think, to they want people that are relatable, that they can go to day after day and kind of like they're at home with them and they're which we we know all of this, right?

42:13 But that is, I believe this is the future. It's why I quit my job in 2019. I really think this is the future. This is modern advertising. We're going to see it evolve, surely. But one thing that I always hear is like just another influencer brand. You know, like there's so many influencer brands. There really are not.

42:38 Like, if you think about when you sign on to revolve, all the contemporary brands that are on that website, there is so much room for growth. And I really think that this is going to be the new model. It's the way that we are going to just be advertising brands in clothes and, you know, bringing them directly to the consumer.

42:59 And I'm I'm hopeful that that narrative of just another influencer brand or, you know, people thinking that these are white labeled brands, like this is a brand just as any other brand that you see when you like go on to forward. You know, we have our team is veteran fashion people who have worked in New York City for over 20 years doing these jobs.

43:24 So I'm hoping that the narrative is going to evolve. And I'm, I guess, placing all of my bets on that.

43:35 I mean, it's it's really interesting, and you've taken such a fascinating approach. If someone's listening and they want to be a creator, they're not ready to work with someone like you yet, but you've seen so much of this. What do you think would make somebody successful today who hasn't started?

43:52 A creator or a brand owner?

43:54 A creator.

43:55 Well, everyone wants to be a creator now. And I I do think that it's really important to have work experience and like get out there and have internships and like figure out what your passion is before you can do anything. Hard work is the key to success. And then it's like, what are you bringing to the world?

44:22 What are you passionate about? I just think that sometimes, like, a lot of the younger girls are trying to do too much. They're trying to check too many boxes. What is the thing you're passionate about? Do that and do it over and over and over. And I think that's going to like really make an impact on an audience versus like, I just think that the audience is really smart.

44:47 You know what I mean? They are the first ones to know like, are you real or not? And you can only do you can't fake that. You have to have that desire and passion and grit no matter what. So I think that's just like first step is it's the same as it's always been. Figure out what you're passionate about and work really hard at that.

45:09 And then start taking content about that subject.

45:12 I think I know your answer to this, but it just came to mind. What do you think about the AI influencers? Oh.

45:22 Have you been saying this? No, like anytime I hear AI though, like somebody the other day was just telling me that they're taking a meeting with like an AI manufacturer. What does that even mean? So they basically like get rid of the production line and they work with this company that makes the clothes like by robot.

45:45 And so that just like kind of goes against everything that I believe in. Like we still work with a lot of New York City factories. Oh, so a lot of it's made here. Well, for different things, like special projects, or if we need just like small things that we need done or large quantity of things that we have to change.

46:07 Like we have really important partners in the city, in Long Island City, and in New Jersey that I've been that got me through my last business, like family, basically, a lot of these factories. And so I just hate hearing that about the AI thing because that's gonna put our factories like out of business.

46:29 And so, anyways, that just I got sidetracked, but the AI thing is interesting. Of course, I use AI, but tell me about the AI influencers.

46:39 I mean, I don't know much, but it's like usually like a male-founded startup shocker. Yeah. But I'm like, that's not gonna go anywhere. And it's really interesting to hear that you have manufacturers in the US and in the like in New York, specifically where you guys are based. How did you begin making partnerships and relationships with the people who are making the clothes?

47:02 So a lot of the factories' relationships go back to even when I was like working at these companies previously because they're the same factories that have been there and the same factory owners. So I've known all their names and like knew kind of who they were because if you were in fashion 10, 20 years ago, like you during fashion week, for example, like you are hustling samples out of these factories just to make it to your preview or your shoot or whatever.

47:33 So I already knew these factories, and then in my last business, we like I said, made a lot of ready-to-wear. So, like that first style we made, the silk twist dress, was made in New York City. And that was a constant throughout the brand. Even though the sweatshirt was doing really well, we were still making ready-to-wear in New York.

47:56 Bridal collections or dresses, things that were like 100% silk, like we always had a little bit of like that novelty sprinkled into the brand. And so, same now, like things that happen. Like if we have to relabel a sweatshirt, like a thousand units of a sweatshirt because it came in in the wrong size, like we give it to a local factory.

48:18 If we want something screen printed, that's done in New York City. So a lot of like either expense more expensive novelty things are done here, or like things that we need to like work through issues are here. Yeah. And my husband's brand is here, and he does everything in New York City.

48:37 So the garment district's great. Yeah. It's like really it's right around here, actually.

48:41 Oh, I know. I told Juliana on my way up that I have a few suppliers in this building. Really? Yes.

48:48 Actually, I made a video about this because Cast Amiko was on just a couple months ago. I mentioned this before. And she told me that one of her first employees came to her pop-up and she hired her because the girl was just so excited to work, like, knew so much about the brand, introduced herself. They had that in-person connection.

49:06 And so I made a video because it was like right around the time that the Fifi pop-up was announced. And I was like, listen, if Fifi's like your dream brand, I don't know if you guys are hiring or not, but like I just heard that this other founder, that's when they hired. Like, maybe meeting the team is a great way to do it.

49:22 I don't know if you're hiring.

49:23 Wait, that is funny because I had a few girls come up to me at the pop-up. Maybe they saw my video asking me those questions. Like they were asking Iran and they were like, go ask her. So they were sending the girls to me. And it was so fun because they were so excited and they just wanted to know everything.

49:44 And I was like, Yes, I we are always looking for like passionate people, and we're always hiring interns. And I think you have to make yourself stick out in some way, right? Like you have to. So I thought that was a great recommendation.

50:00 Because I wanted to ask, and like I always ask on every episode because people want to know, but like, what do you look for when hiring? Are you hiring? You're a really interesting growing company in New York. I think people would love to work with you. We are hiring. You are. Tell us what are you looking for?

50:19 We're definitely hiring. That is a big part of my focus right now is team and growing the team. And I think I have a really good way with like people and knowing who who's gonna fit in. To be honest with you, it really comes down to the hard work and that the kind of mentality that I will do anything to be here.

50:42 Like, you just know, like, as a founder, when you're working with a team, you know who's like one foot in and who just is part of the mission, cares, and wants to, you know, do their best. And I'm just always looking for those driven people. I was one of those people, so I think from that standpoint, I had I like hold my team to a high standard because I'd never left the office and I worked my ass off.

51:10 So I'm always looking for a similar work ethic in whoever it is that I hire.

51:18 What were you like as an employee when you were applying for jobs?

51:22 Brutal, probably. What do you mean? I just from an early age like always had that boss mentality. So I would stay at the office later than everyone, hot nights, weekends, whatever. And I kind of like was a little bossy, you know, in that sense. Like I would make sure everyone was like doing what they were supposed to be doing.

51:46 I just have always taken work really seriously, maybe to a fault. But I've just always been a hard worker, I would say.

51:54 Yeah. Did you uh think you would end up being a founder one day, even when you were in corporate?

51:59 I did not really think about it that way.

52:02 Really?

52:02 Yeah. So it's different now because now everyone sees on social media and thinks, oh, I can just be a founder if I do this. That was not my mission. My mission was to be successful, to make money. If I was gonna make money, I was going to do it. Like no one was gonna do it for me. I come from a family of a single mom.

52:23 I, you know, got myself to New York. I worked my ass off. So I was just always trying to, what can I do to make myself better and grow in my career? It wasn't like I want my own business, I want to be a founder. And still today, I don't really treat myself as like that way. Like I'm in the nitty-gritty with the team.

52:45 I'm working, you know, just as hard. I'm working all the time. And so, you know, that's just my story.

52:54 Fashion's a notoriously hard industry to make money in.

52:58 Yes.

52:59 How did you approach that at the beginning of your career?

53:01 I it is, you're right. It's low-paying. Yeah. And it took me a long time to like make any sort of money in this industry because it is one of the lowest paying industries. So I think I was just really dedicated and but it was also different. Like you didn't ask for a raise every year, like you really had to work for five years to get to like that next level.

53:28 And so I think that's what I was always striving to do. And then, you know, seeing the shifts in the industry, I was more acting like, oh my God, if I don't do something, I'm going to be out of a job. So I have to figure it out. I have to go where the customers are going and find my way. And so I think I became a founder through that process with the bar, but it was never my intention, like going in to say, Oh, I want to do my own brand.

54:03 Like I wasn't really thinking about it that way.

54:05 The bar was the first brand that you did this with. What was a lesson you learned from that process that now you can take into these next businesses that you start?

54:14 A million and one lesson. I think that that's every like business period you go through, it's like a growth period. And you learn from your like mistakes and also your wins. And so exiting that business was challenging, but so amazing because I learned so much. Like I said, I put my heart and soul into that business, and I learned the things that I wanted to evolve and change.

54:50 Like now I'm 41 years old, I have a two-year-old, I have another kid on the way. Like, there has to be some sort of structure to my life. And so I was able to really like put that structure into place with TLG, which was huge and so rewarding. So that was like one of the biggest takeaways, I think.

55:11 You've been behind the scenes quite a bit in these companies. You're doing this podcast now. Are you kind of ready to be a little bit more front-facing?

55:20 I think so. I think it's time. It only took me like 20 years, but I think so. Yeah. I for my business, for TLG, for everyone to know what we stand for and all the exciting things we're doing and the hard work involved. Like, I think that it's important. It's again nothing that I've ever been interested in.

55:40 I don't really have like an ego in that sense. Like, I'm okay being behind scenes. That's what I do. But I think it's important for the business.

55:51 Now that you're kind of emerging from behind the scenes, people are kind of getting to know you. What is something that you would want people taking away from this episode to know about you, Ashley? Maybe not you as the Leo group or you as kind of this brand builder, not only for Fifi, but the talent, like you as a person?

56:12 I wish somebody else could answer that question for me. That I care deeply about my partners and the work and the brands that we're building. I put my heart and soul into every single one. And, you know, we're all we c become a family. I I say that TLG is a family business because it is. Like my husband works with us.

56:36 We're very close with our partners and their fiancés, boyfriends, mothers, fathers. It's all really close, and we're all a true team. And I don't know. I just think that that doesn't come across online a lot of the time. And so I would just want people to know like I've been here doing this for a really long time, and it's just the advertising that has changed, and but I still am hustling clothes.

57:08 Some really quick fire questions for you before we end. What is more important? A great product or a great audience?

57:15 Product.

57:16 What is your fashion hot take?

57:18 My fashion hot take, nothing's new.

57:22 What is a fashion industry misconception?

57:25 A huge misconception is that influencer brands are like white-labeled brands.

57:32 That is out there a lot.

57:33 Yeah, it's crazy. No, it's like we, you know, developed everything down to the first inspiration to the final button. Like it's all it's a real brand in business.

57:46 Well, hopefully this episode can shed light onto all of that. Yeah. What is a resource recommendation you have for people? Maybe like a book or a newsletter, a podcast.

57:56 I think the biggest resource, at least for me, is like following the customer. You know, even going back to what I said before. That's what's available to us now, and that's never really been available at this level. And that is just everything. Do you have any upcoming announcements? Well, for TLG, we're still less than a year old.

58:18 So we're evolving and figuring out like what our portfolio is. And I think the exciting announcement is next year we're going to be opening new categories.

58:29 I'm excited to see what you have coming up.

58:31 Yeah, it's gonna be fun. And where can everyone find you? You can follow us on Instagram at the Leo Group underscore. Amazing.

58:40 Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was really fascinating. I don't think I have had any resource where I can find this information. And I feel for the brands that there's these misconceptions out there about them that they kind of can't control. And it's like, do you give it energy? Do you not?

58:57 And so yeah, hopefully people can see how much work and operations is going on with people like you, with the brands that you're building. So I'm very excited to see what's coming up for you.

59:07 Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun.