The Shining Review : Halloween Retrospective : GV Classic

0:01 Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the Halloween Retrospective. And this year, we're doing... We're doing The Shining, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you to the patrons for putting in the suggestions and the Patreon producers for putting it in there. And thank you, Patreon producers, for not picking a movie I just watched the last year, Halloween Retrospective. We did that.

0:24 The franchise we're doing, Retrospective, next year, we did that. So I thank you for Pick in some of that, you know, I see all the time, but luckily hadn't watched. I am the caretaker, Trask Nell. I'm joined by.

0:36 I am the 237 enjoyer, Kirkland Patzer.

0:40 Hello, my name is Dylan Moss.

0:42 I am a doll boy, Taylor Field.

0:45 Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I think I already said it, but if you haven't guessed, or maybe you just skipped ahead, you don't like the intros, we are here to talk about The Shining. We do this every year in the fall somehow. We don't have any in the other years, but in the fall we do... a Halloween movie, a video game movie, and a Christmas movie, so that'll be the next one, if people are wondering, in November, I'll start making a poll here, or end of October, I'll make a poll, and ask you guys, for some submissions, I feel like for the video game ones, I know we still got quite a few, but I feel like eventually, we could get to the end of that, you know, where Halloween, Christmas could be around, but yeah, that'll be

1:16 the next one, so stay tuned, you can put in submissions, if you join Patreon, I'd very much appreciate it, and a producer, you get to pick everything we're doing, I don't know when this is coming out, I think it'll come out for everybody, close to Halloween, but, just head down below for everything you know that has everything for what we do, video, audio, Patreon, where you get ad-free episodes, do voting like I just said, but most importantly, November 8th is our Extra Life charity stream. We're trying to raise $ 2, 500 for the B.C. Jones Hospital, but luckily if we don't hit that, all the money keeps towards the B.C.

1:42 Jones Hospital. As we've said, if we can get close to that, boys, we will have hit $ 20, 000 Canadian for our B.C. Jones Hospital the entire time we've been doing it in nine years, which is pretty impressive. More than 1,000, or. How does that work up? More than... I don't know. I had the math in my head. I just thought it would have been something past 10.

2:01 2,000 every year for 10 years.

2:03 Yeah, it's just surprising. Even 1,000 a year. It's great. So get us that, and there's going to be lots of things you get on the lock along the way. It's going to be a very fun time. Old events, new events, the same old shenanigans at 1 to 2 a.m., so look out for that. But here we are. I don't know who I want to start with. I think I'm going to start... with Mr. Musk. Because I feel like I've talked to Taylor about this movie many times.

2:23 I know Taylor's like, oh, I hope that wins the poll. So I think I know Taylor's thoughts on this. So Mr. Musk, I'm going to ask, was this the first time you've seen this? If not, when did you see it before and what was your history with The Shining? Or like I said, is it the first time?

2:38 The first time I watched it was back in the Dome era. So it would have been seven, eight years ago, something like that. Because I think Saris was a fan and so we watched it.

2:49 Really?

2:49 Okay.

2:49 Was it just a U2 or was there other people around?

2:53 Clinton was probably powing around in the background. I don't remember the full scene. Maybe Amber was there. I'm not exactly sure. But yeah, that was the first time I watched it. So, you know, kind of years later after hearing that it's one of the greats and all that.

3:08 And then.

3:08 Think I was on the Doctor Sleep Review? I'd have to go back in the annals of time and check out that YouTube video, no? Because I definitely saw it and remember talking about it for Golden Geeks.

3:17 We talked Golden Geeks, yeah.

3:19 Okay.

3:20 Yeah.

3:20 So that makes sense. But yeah, and then I think even just like looking around, like I don't know if I've seen, I think I've seen Space Odyssey, I'm trying to think of the other cubic things I've seen. There's maybe not many.

3:32 Full Metal Jacket, Eyes Wide Shut, Fidelio, have you seen that?

3:36 No.

3:37 You should, you It's a Christmas movie. You should boot that up. Dr. Strangelove, did you have to watch that in high school or middle school or anything like that?

3:44 No, I did not.

3:45 Clockwork Orange? I feel like I've seen that one.

3:50 I can't remember.

3:51 Eyes Wide Shut, great Christmas movie. Go watch it.

3:54 I'll put it on the list.

3:58 But really, I think it's mostly just this now. And this is the second time I've watched it. I don't think I did a rewatch at any point in time. And I don't, I've been thinking a lot, I guess I watched this a few days ago, thinking about how I want to talk about this. And honestly, I was kind of disappointed with the movie this time around, which is like kind of surprising to me because it is just one of those movies considered one of the best of all time and like one of the greatest performances of all time. And I think there's a lot of great stuff here to be sure. I think maybe this time around, I just felt like pacing wise, I had some issues with it. And then I think, especially coming into it the second time, I'm like, okay, I kind

4:32 of know the broad strokes. I forget the details. Excited to get into this again. And I think by the end of it, I was like, I feel like so many movies, there's like that perfect amount of ambiguous ending where there's, it's like fun to ruminate on like, ooh, what does this mean? But I feel like this movie just like didn't give me enough answers. And like, it's not really that fun to think about. I feel like there's kind of one obvious angle to look at it and then yeah i was reading a bunch of theories online i'm like none of these make any sense to me so i don't know where these you know people are pulling these crazy theories from maybe you guys are some of those people as well and have some crazy

5:03 theories but overall i think it's a you know totally solid movie well made like the cinematography is really good I think the music is good, but once again, pasting things sometimes, I feel like these strings are just going off for too long. I'm getting sick of it and not in a good tension-building way. I think your performances are pretty good here, but there's definitely some things I would cut. I feel like this movie could knock 16 minutes off this movie, and I think it would be better, in my opinion. For me, personally, of course, everyone else loves it, so that's it. uh not a common opinion um but yeah i i had a decent time with it but i think i found myself a little underwhelmed second time around and yeah it like didn't didn't really

5:44 leave me wanting to like put this on every year and like oh i gotta revisit this see how it ages with me i just i don't know i'll probably watch it again in my life but not really in a rush to do so.

5:54 Mr pat sir.

5:57 Yeah, I got some good juicy history with this film. My dad showed this to me and my sister when we were probably a little bit too young just to get that shining isms ingrained in my brain. And I feel like.

6:13 You see those twins? That could happen to you if you step out of line.

6:19 Not so much. More so, I feel like a lot of the... like here's Johnny and just like the, like the, like the notable references to this movie. I already kind of knew some of them of before I even watched the movie, whether it was in like the Simpsons or family guy doing like their own versions of like, it just seemed like it had been, um, just credited in like many things of the past, like leading up to it. So, um, my first time viewing it, I also probably like, was like, I probably didn't sit down for the whole two and a half hours, like watching this as a kid. I was probably like just wondering, um, to move around and I don't know, just, just not just sit there. And cause, cause it is like a slow, there's a slow burn.

7:00 Yeah. There's like the first half an hour, it takes its time. There's no like jump scares or anything. So I imagine it's like a young and you're kind of like, all right, we're especially if you're like, Oh, this is a scary movie. Look out. And you're like, it's just like a marriage drama for the first half an hour, you know?

7:15 Yeah. And I was probably just waiting for those moments to happen. Like when he's knocking down the door with the ax, like stuff like that. Um, but, like since then I, I've probably seen this movie five or so times and I, I can safely say the more I watch it, the more I do enjoy it. Uh, and yeah, this most recent viewing, it was probably my most enjoyable time watching it just cause I think going into it, I was just, I see this movie as being like, like a ride, like, like a, like a, like an interesting carnival ride, even though it's not like high extreme octane action. It's just, from start to finish, like going on that, that long road just to the overlook hotel.

7:57 I'm like, all right, this is like on the roller coaster is like the slow light, like ascension into, into this, this big adventure here. And I, it's just such a fun time for me. It's definitely unsettling at times. And I think like the music is just so standout to me, but the thing that stands out the most for me in this film is, It's just the actual Overlook Hotel itself. Like, it's just the location and how we go kind of through different seasons. And, like, the time that we're here, they don't quite make it to the end of the whole season, but it's a couple months.

8:30 No, what happened?

8:33 That snow, man. That snow is deadly. Yeah. But, yeah, just, like, everything from the labyrinth. outside like the like the garden maze to just like the kitchen the dry storage the like jack's uh writing room like there's just so many cool fascinating areas to this overlook hotel and um i've never is it room 237 is that the name of the documentary the name of the documentary yeah yeah so i i haven't seen that i i definitely do want to cross that off at some point just because it's It just seems so fascinating, the making of this movie.

9:09 But yeah, I'm excited to unpack it with you guys and talk about it here. Definitely one of my favorites.

9:14 Well, again, there's two separate things. There is a documentary of the making of The Shining, and that's just like the production of it. But The Room 237, there does give some insight to the making of it. I'll say like a good like solid 30, maybe 40% you can stretch it. But then a lot of it is just like theory crafting. And some of it is like a mind blown of like, never even, even today I learned, I, cause I rewatched today and was looking at trivia. I learned something that I've never known. And I'm like, Oh man, that's so cool that that's in the movie, but stuff where it's like, well, this picture above the girls looks like a Minotaur. And it's like, it's just a guy skiing, but he's posed. He looks like, I guess a Minotaur,

9:51 but I'm like, I don't buy it. But then there's this whole theory of, cause like, like a Minotaur and there's all this stuff, like what it goes to. And that just leads into like how it's so, about the, you know, destruction of the American or native American lifestyle and all that stuff. But there's some stuff where it's like, I can see it. And there's other stuff. It's like, I feel like we're, we're stretching. One of my other favorite ones.

10:11 Yeah.

10:11 One of my other favorite ones too is, uh, it's this whole segment why it's about sexuality and stuff. And it's like the guy, I can't remember his name, when Jack gets the job and they shake hands. When he shakes hands, the way he's standing, there's like a paper folder in front of him and it's angled in a way where it looks like he has a huge erection.

10:28 And they point out multiple times in the movie where these characters have phallic symbols going on. But again, it could just be like, did he just stand that way with that? So there's some appeal. Even one guy admits, he's like, I've watched this movie legitimately too many times. I have to stop watching it, but he's like, I keep watching it, so. yeah, it is worth a watch.

10:45 If anyone's never seen it and likes the movie, definitely watch two, three, seven. Some stuff's crazy. Some stuff's like, holy shit. And then there's a lot of in the middle. So Mr.

10:55 Field.

10:57 Hmm. Yes.

10:59 So I could not tell you when the first time was that I saw this movie. Definitely a good minute ago, but for me, this is a, it's one that, it gets better every time I watch it. I feel like it's something that like, it just, I don't know what it is for me. It's like an acquired kind of just thing that gets better and better and better.

11:22 And I think that's just because your husband and father now, so you're relating more to Jack.

11:26 I am.

11:26 I am.

11:28 I am right on my typewriter.

11:29 Fucking understand me. Yeah. If you hear me typing or you don't hear me typing, stay the fuck out of here. That's Taylor.

11:40 Jack Nicholson is fucking outstanding in this movie. Holy shit. But I'll save that for later. Yeah, no, this movie just... It's... A couple years ago.

11:49 I ended up buying it on DVD because I thought I just was sick and tired of just trying to watch it on streaming. I just want to own it so I can watch it whenever I want to watch it. And usually I watch it every Halloween now. I think for the past few years, I've just put it on every single Halloween because it's just such a spooky movie.

12:03 From the moment that it starts, yes, it is a slow burn. I can totally. Totally accept that.

12:10 And where it kind of steers off, though, with just being a slow burn, I feel like, okay, well, the slow burn also is just kind of instilling the sense of remote and the sense of isolation. Even though it's a very large place, claustrophobic as well, I would say, is one of the terms there, too.

12:28 There's just so many different things going on. I've not read the book. I know the book has a lot more expanded stuff on here. There's even a scene where.

12:36 because I was just looking at some differences between the book and with this, and I kind of want to read the book, but there's a moment where Jack snaps out of his possession, and he has a full moment with Danny, and he's super just upset with himself, distraught, but then the Overlook takes back control of him and whatnot.

12:54 I would have loved that if that was in the movie. I think that would have been a crazy thing. Stephen King would have.

12:58 Too, because Stephen King hates this. That's a legend. He fucking hates this movie so much. If you didn't know, I also wrote the book. His biggest thing is Jack because Jack, which we'll probably talk about in many scenes, he wrote this book when he was just recovering from alcoholism. So it was kind of like a conduit to that.

13:16 And that's why it's like the Overlook is a allegory for alcohol and all that stuff and being an addict.

13:23 And that makes the book more like from Jack's perspective, right? I think the movie is more from Wendy's perspective.

13:29 Isn't it?

13:30 I feel like the movie is just kind of I almost like, I agree with Kirkland other than the beginning. It's kind of like from the house perspective, like even the way the movie opens up when it's this kind of like ghost just fall in the car. I feel like, cause like there's a whole 15 minutes where just Scatman and Crothers is the main character. And he's like on the highway and he's at the hotel and he's making calls.

13:47 I feel like it kind of goes in pieces of when people take over. So I think it's kind of a, an ensemble going on, but that's the biggest thing is with, which we'll get into in the book. Jack is like a, kind of like a normal guy who does suffer from alcoholism, where I think he doesn't really appreciate that clearly Jack Torrance in the movie has some more demons than just alcohol.

14:08 I feel like Jack Torrance in the movie, even before The Shining, is probably a bit of an asshole, right? Where in the book, he's not. I have read the book. I go against King on some things, and I get the point there. But I think it's tough because I like what they did with, obviously, Nicholson. But I do...

14:24 he'd hate to hear it. I do think the movie's better than the book because I think the book kind of gets a little meandering at parts and the book's way more supernatural where there's only technically one supernatural thing that happens in this and even then you could write off of how it's not supernatural. Where the book, there's like ice sculptures coming alive and chasing you. So I like this one more where it's a bit more, like I still think the house is haunted and there's superpowers and all that stuff, but I like that there's still kind of like a, well, these people could just be crazy or it's like a cabin fever thing sort of thing, right? Yeah, that's true.

14:57 And I think that's one of the biggest things that.

15:00 I think I was assuming that this was. It was just cabin fever and you start to go insane. Now, I know that my dad, like you, Kirk, was one of the reasons why I watched this when I was young. And so my dad, his belief was that he was just possessed. Jack Nicholson was possessed by the caretaker spirit from before. Um, and again, this movie has so many interpretations.

15:25 So could I ever pinpoint what the right way is? No.

15:28 And I, I really liked that. I liked that. There's so many different ways that you can look at this. So many things that you discover every time you watch this. And that's true. Like there's so many things that I feel are, are new.

15:38 And I just really like the setting of being in this hotel and with the snow coming in. And yeah, like you guys mentioned the maze and everything going on and like you The points where he's just going down this dark hole and the Overlook is just hitting him and hitting him and trying to belittle him further and further and further. And you can just see he's getting to that point where it's just going to be no going back. And then finally you get to the point where he snaps. And the ghosts are unlocking fucking doors for this guy now. And he's getting out of the dry storage and all this other crazy shit.

16:12 Or was it Danny Taylor?

16:13 Or was it Danny?

16:14 Danny.

16:15 You'll have to explain that. That's fucking wild.

16:17 Well, that's all I got. That's the only, cause everyone, cause everyone, well, or Tony, yeah, cause that's all I got, but everyone says, cause that's the one supernatural thing that happens in the movie, right? Where Jack's locked up in it. That's the only thing that technically you see happen and the door opens, but then lots of people have the theory that it was actually Danny or Tony that opened it for the dad. But I don't think it's Tony cause Tony is.

16:38 Um, Tony was scared of the place, right?

16:40 Well, cause Tony's him in the, Tony's him from the future. It's, It's, it's, why am I forgetting his, the kid's name? Jesus Christ. Danny. It's because Danny's middle name is Anthony. So Tony is him as an adult and he's speaking to his younger self to like, that's why he writes.

16:58 That's not in Dr. Sleep at all, right?

16:59 I don't, I think they might talk about that a little bit. That might've been in the director's cut because the director's cut is three hours. I'm not sure if you've ever seen that. You should, but in the books, that's where it is. So that's why when he writes the word Red Rum, it is like his past, his future self letting him know like, hey, This is what's going to go down. That's why Anthony, a.k.a. Tony, is telling him, like, don't go there. Bad stuff's going to happen.

17:20 So it's a weird thing. But, yes, it's Andy from.

17:24 The future talking to himself. I wouldn't be able to see it being Danny is the one opening up the door.

17:29 No, I don't think so either. But people just think, like, Danny's kind of a fucked up kid. Maybe he just opened the door or whatnot. Like, maybe he was possessed by a ghost because, like, he does get possessed in Doctor Sleep, right? Yeah. And there's also like, I wish I agreed the theory that people, I don't know if they ever outright say it. He might in Dr. Sleep, but Jack does have the shining as well. So that's why it's led to that theory of wealth. Jack has the shiny and he can get possessed. Then Danny has the signing and he could get possessed. And that's why the door could open that way. But again, there's nothing to prove that just, just the theory, but there is someone that could open that door. So that's one of.

18:02 The things too, with all these different spirits and poltergeists exist in the overlook. Um, I like kind of their, their origin when it comes to like the caretaker or, you know, room two, three, seven, the girl lured in young bell boys and then taking advantage of them and then killing herself. And then you have other, uh, there's another guy who owned it and then he sold it.

18:21 He sold the overlook and then he acquired it in the back end of, of things. And then he was just, he apparently they, uh, from what I was reading, He owned a part of Las Vegas. He was just a rich guy who was doing very seedy, bad things, and I think he got killed in the hotel.

18:38 Which would explain lots of the parties and businesses and whatnot.

18:42 Going on there, too. That's exactly it, yeah.

18:44 Plus the classic built on Indian burial ground, which is never good.

18:48 You ever hear that in a movie?

18:50 That's game over, you know? Game over, yeah.

18:53 One of my favorite parts in this is the chef, Dick Halloran, that character.

18:58 I always....

19:00 Get pumped up when he's coming back.

19:02 And it's just such a fucking crazy scene when Jack just, just swings his fucking ax out.

19:08 They shot that scene 42 times. 42 times. Yeah. Kubrick was a guy that did a lot of them. And I guess Scatman and Crothers at the end was kind of in tears. Cause he's like, I don't know what you want me to do. Like his scene was just to act getting stabbed. He's like, I don't know what you want me to do. And then eventually Nicholson pulled him aside. He's like, he's 69. Like, let's, let's stop.

19:26 And they did it. Nicholson seemed to be like the only guy that could kind of speak a little sense into Kubrick at times because he was pretty hard. Him and Duvall too had a really bad, which again, I'm not saying is a great thing. Hitchcock used to do that too, where on purpose, Kubrick was making it very hard for Shelly so that could come out in the performance.

19:46 And then after they were friends and she said it helped, but she said she also never won. to work with him ever again. But he's, you know, one of those kind of crazed directors that like, it's all the screen.

19:55 Psychological torture.

19:57 Yeah. Which is something that probably is not best nowadays. Just go to, go to acting school. But back then that was all, all the bees knees, you know? So.

20:05 And my last thing on, on that character, it was, I didn't realize this until I was reading into it, that he's a chef that works in Derry, Maine, because it's the same.

20:15 Universe, right?

20:16 Oh, yeah, that's funny. I forgot about that, yeah.

20:18 He saves Mike's, or Mike's dad says that Dick had saved their lives during a fire. And then this is before he went off to become chef at the Overlook Hotel, which I thought, that's super fucking cool. I love that kind of crossover stuff. And I would just, like, I don't know what time period that is, but if, you know, the new It, uh, welcome to dairy series through it, like a cameo Dick, uh, like Dick character in there.

20:43 Like, fuck, that is a very cool crossover. I am. I'm all for that.

20:46 So I don't know if they can legally do it, but there is going to be other Easter eggs to other Stephen King stuff in the it one. But imagine if the, uh, the creature landed there instead of dairy, you know, I don't know what would happen. Would that have been like a, in the house working together or that have been, you know, one have to eat each other.

21:06 I don't know. I really don't know.

21:07 So, It'd be that much worse of a place to visit.

21:09 Now you've got this clown giving around, giving guys blowjobs and everything. It would have just been the worst. Which is in the book. In the book, it's a dog, though. It's different. There's only difference. Instead of a bear, it's a dog. But yeah, I don't remember the exact year I watched this movie, but I remember for Halloween, my auntie and I would always rent a bunch of movies.

21:30 There was one year we just went through the entire Nightmare on Elm Street series. She was like, oh, I thought you'd like these. And then we just watched, Saturday, Sunday, watched every single one. And I think this was in, like, a bunch of... It might have been a Stephen King one, because that's what we do. We kind of have themes or franchises. And I remember specifically the Blockbuster, like, DVD case.

21:49 Of course, it's this Jack Nicholson, like, going like that. And I think it must have been, like... It must have been 2000... Because the first DVD I remember owning being a big deal was Planet of the Apes. And that was in 01. So I feel like it must have been in that era. So I was probably... like around 10 when I saw this, but it was to the point where you guys talking about the references, like the, here's Johnny. I didn't even know, like, I didn't know about Johnny Carson yet. So until like later on, my dad told me like, well, that's like from a very famous comedian. He was like, I just always thought that was from that. And even then for the longest time, I thought his name was Johnny. Cause as a kid,

22:23 you don't really pick up like, like all the names. You don't remember that. So for the longest time I thought, oh, well he's just saying, here's Johnny cause it's him. And then I was like, well, it's just like, no shit.

22:32 You're not.

22:33 One time when we went camping in my trailer in the States, someone had like the 100 greatest musicians and that's how I learned Michael Jackson was like a black man because my whole life I just grew with the way his pigmentation was. And again, my dad also dropped that knowledge of, oh no, look at all this stuff.

22:46 And I was like, whoa. So I guess my dad was always just dropping knowledge of just common stuff that I should have learned along the way, but I didn't. So Johnny's one of those. But I remember watching that and same thing feeling all around that I was too young for it. Not that I was scared, but just like, and there is scary stuff, but same thing of like, I don't think I fully get at that point, and I think it was. It takes a while. It's 2.30.

23:08 But I still remember enjoying it, especially the back half because Nicholson is, to me, if you're going to put up who plays the best crazy person, without a doubt, it's Jack Nicholson. There's so many people that try to do this or there's variations of that, and you can feel like they're playing crazy or they only get a little bit of that. Jack Nicholson, his expressions and the way he'll randomly pronounce things, or his eyes, man, his eye, we talk about Tom Hardy eye work, his eye work in this movie, Jack Nicholson should have got an Academy Award for this, which is funny, because when this movie came out, it was pretty panned, it got Razzie nominations, like it was a big, like, oh, this is not

23:43 Kubrick's best work, and then, kind of funny, later on in life, it feels like it's the one that's talked about the most, and they even took some of the Razzies away, the Razzie thing, because like, okay, we were wrong about this, but Um, yeah, Nicholson to me is peak insanity. And that's why like every once in a while you get to see like a little bit of him break through, but then he's just back to just going absolutely bonkers. And yeah, it's a, it's a top 10 performance for me because I, and even the stuff though, at the beginning of, and I guess we'll talk about more specifically, so I'll wait back, but just even it's a layered performance throughout where it's this great thing of, He's a dick, but you feel like he's maybe trying

24:19 to be a little bit better at the very beginning, but I can't remember, I think it was Jack Nicholson that described him this way of like, the way he played the character was like, he got Wendy pregnant on a one night stand and he's just fucked now, because he's in the time period, well, she's pregnant, so you gotta marry the woman and be a guy and be a dad and a father, but I've always loved that explanation of like, he never won this, but he's trying to do good, but he is just a piece of shit and that's where the shiny like, kind of amplifies that.

24:47 But everything I could say, like this to me, for me as a masterpiece, I watch this, I'll say once a year, but sometimes it's twice. Last year, I got to see it in the theaters for the first time and that was fantastic. And then, yeah, just everything. I love the score. The score is not really one you can like listen to outside because it's just, there's a lot of like strings or pianos or just drums going off that. And there's a lot of chanting and There's one, my favorite track, it's when Scatman and Crothers get stabbed.

25:14 Other than the main title sequence, I can't, I'm not, I'm going to butcher how it's said. Oringa Awanjalia. That's when he gets stabbed and it's just like, but like then it's a nine minute track. There's just like four minutes of just chanting and just like ghost sounds and everything. So it's purely just for the movie. But one of my favorites, cinematography is amazing. There's so many just, still shots that are incredible. Like you could make as a painting, but just like I said, the opening up of that highway of like, it should seem kind of mad, but with the score, with the chanting, with the way it works, it just like, it sets you in the mood right away of, okay, you're going someplace that you shouldn't be.

25:54 And yeah, the rest of the cast is great too. Yeah. I love everything about this movie. I lost track of how many times I've watched it. This is one of those movies that I finished today. and I could just be like, man, I could just watch this again, and I might before Halloween, because it's just, because I kind of watch this more trying to be a critical eye on things through the review, but just for enjoyment level, and yeah, the pacing, like the beginning doesn't ever feel slow to me, because it just feels like it's the big setup for everything, you know, and I feel like it all pays off near the end, so yeah, no one picked, and I'm happy to be finally talking about this, because I've been waiting, and it was almost one of

26:29 the picks here too, because it was like this, Fight Club, a couple others, obviously I picked Shame to round off that circle but man this is a credible movie and Kubrick is just man he he was operating a different level especially the stuff when you do watch the document stuff that they do find and that is specifically they talk about like how with the Native Americans there at first it seemed like oh that doesn't seem like that's a real plot but then there's photos of him behind the scenes positioning the cans in the food room to look a certain way so then when you see in the movie you're like oh my god like that's what it means and they're looking at different characters at different times It's just his mind was just at times operating

27:06 on a different level. Maybe at times maybe hard to work with, but that guy, like I don't know if there's anybody working like he was. And that's in all stuff, but in this one specifically, he was just firing on all cylinders. So, yeah, love it. But where should we go? Should we go with certain characters, certain moment theory? Where do we want to start with this one here?

27:29 I mean, I'll make a pitch here. Let's start with Wendy because... I've not seen this actress in anything else.

27:34 And when I put this movie on.

27:35 Have you seen Popeyes with Rob Williams?

27:38 No, I haven't seen Popeyes. She just drives Madison up a wall. She can't stand her. And so I have to figure this out. She obviously has to act this way to just be super oblivious. I feel like she's just always on Jack's nerves. I don't know how she wouldn't be always.

28:01 Well, see, so you're saying, are you trying to say she's also on your nerves too?

28:05 Well, I'm just trying to figure out, is this just her as an actress or is this her.

28:10 Character that she's playing?

28:11 I think there's some like isms of Shelley Duvall, but she's not like this in every role and everything. It's like, I think she's trying to play like a, that, that's why I like the double side of the coin where he feels like he's very jagged, very hard edge. He'd be pessimistic and she'd be optimistic. And I think that's what shows where she's always happy and bubbly and even when he's happy at the beginning of the movie, it feels to me completely fake. Like when they're walking through the hotel and he has to phone back, like you never believe him when he's like, yeah, I'm trying to do good for the family. And we're going to, you know, cause even like the first day when she, she approaches him,

28:44 she's like, Oh, after you do all the stuff at the hotel, we can go for a walk. He's like, well, I know I got to write today. I haven't run in a while. And she asked like, Oh, you got any ideas? Like not any good ones. So it's like, he doesn't actually have to write. Like he's obviously working on it. Yeah. Don't you see what I'm doing? But like, I feel that, like I said, that's why I like that description of he's a guy that got a girl pregnant on a one night stand and he's just dealing with it. So I think they're just completely two different personalities, but that's the time period where if you get a kid with someone, you're getting married, you know, you're, you're all that, like that was expected of you to do. So,

29:16 but yeah, I think he hates her guts, but I don't think she's, she's, she's not like this in all movies now.

29:21 Well, yeah, Taylor, are you saying you agree with Madison's take, or do you not?

29:25 Does she drive you up a little too.

29:27 Or are you trying to push that on Madison, or is that you as well?

29:32 Madison bothers her a lot more. I definitely tolerate it for the entertainment factor, but it's, yeah, she's just... she's so out there in a way she's like screaming and freaking out.

29:44 It's like, okay, like this.

29:45 But that's near the end, right? She's not screaming and freaking out when they're just like chilling in the snow.

29:49 Is it like strictly the performance for you or is it like the actions of the character that annoy you?

29:56 I think it's just, I don't know if I would even see it as like a really just a con, I guess. It's just the way that she's just like afraid and freaking out at certain situations.

30:08 I just think like, oh, like, I don't know.

30:12 You're not like, I don't agree. Like, I like it for the movie, but there is other people that feel like that's an overtaught performance. But even people like Spielberg has said he felt that about Jack Nicholson. And then he kind of talked to Kubrick and kind of got it. But Kubrick the first or Spielberg first time said he didn't like The Shining because he thought Jack was kind of like, cheesy in it. And then when he, which feels like explaining the joke, but he had dinner with Cupid and Cupid's like, well, this is what it, this is what it was supposed to be like. And he's like, okay, I like it now, but you're not like other people have said, like the Deval character is very loud and very, but for me, it kind of works because it is

30:43 this weird place. That's just, I feel like you're just always on acid in the shining, you know, your mind just getting souped up.

30:50 That's what I was, I was curious about hearing what you guys think, if that's like what they were trying to hit, if they wanted this character to be, that way and i guess if that is it then i'll have to watch it again just to kind of like look at it in a different light and see i mean see more i.

31:06 Mean it sounds like that kind of what we talked about right it sounds like that was the director's plan was to make her just completely unraveled by making her do like i think they said like that also that scene where you know she's crying he's kind of following her she has to she's going up the stairs like she's swinging the bat like apparently they did that like over 40 times or something yes like imagine being asked to do that fucking scene 40 times like you're gonna be you're you're having to force your body to cry over and over again and she's like her way to make her like put herself in that position is like think about traumatic memories and things like that so now she's just like all day long for weeks or days

31:41 or months whatever long it is just like kind of being forced to do these things over and over again. And like, I would be so curious to see like the third take versus whatever one is in the movie. I don't know if that is the final one or if they just picked like, Oh, 32 was actually the best or something, but I I'm curious to see how that performance would change in there. But I think that was what surprised me. This go around with the movie is that I actually thought her performance for me is better than Nicholson's in this. I think she does such a great job. And in terms of the annoying factor of it, like I can see where you're coming from, but like, I don't know, like, put yourself in her shoes, like,

32:14 it's kind of set up as, like, he has to do this job, and he's gonna be doing, he's gonna be here all winter, he's gonna be stuck in this place, and he has all these tasks to do, but across the movie, we don't see him do shit, like, she's the one who's cooking dinner every day, she's taking care of the kid, she's doing seemingly everything, I don't think we see him do a single, like.

32:31 She's calling the radio people, like, checking in with them.

32:34 He's actively, like, making a mess of the place. And then, you know, even when she finds out, okay, he's doing all this because he's writing. And then he finds out, like, that he's not actually writing anything of substance. Obviously, that goes, like, right into the scene of, like, the whole unraveling of everything. But, man, I feel like I have so much sympathy for her.

32:51 Because she's doing more of a job than he is. But, like, he props it up as him doing this noble task. She's also... checking in with the people on the radio. He's not doing anything. And yeah, like I feel like maybe that's why I had more sympathy for is because to me, she actually like felt like a mother in this where he didn't feel like a father. And I think that theory you had Travis's is interesting because that does set it up. And that was something I felt like maybe took me out of his performance. Nicholson's a bit is just like, well, he never actually feels like he is a father at all in this. Like it doesn't feel like he has any chemistry with the kid, but obviously that's part of the reason is he doesn't really,

33:25 want to be. And that's like what the whole movie is kind of about it in the most, I don't know if you're trying to put an interpretation on it, that's like the easiest interpretation to do. Uh, but yeah, I don't, I, I really loved her performance. I think she does a great job and yeah, she's like, I mean, she, she's cooped up here just like the rest of them.

33:40 She has cabin fever mixed with, you know, being kind of, he probably doesn't even like have a conversation with her. Hey, how are you doing? I don't think he'd ask her that once, you know? So she's just on her own in here having to deal with a kid who's like, you know, kind of a trippy kid, you know, like trying to take care of him. He's talking to his imaginary friend. He's seen imaginary things. Like, I don't know, man. I, I, I don't, uh, I can see where you're coming from for sure in terms of like her screaming and crying a lot, but I think, uh, it's an outstanding performance.

34:08 Well, and also you got to think about too, she's going in there with the consciousness of like the hope is it's the alcohol, but Jack still abused the kid. Right. Cause when they talk, when she tells the nurse like, Oh, it was nothing. He just, you know, the papers were everywhere and Jack pulled his arm that was in, separated his shoulder. But when Jack tells the story, he's like that little shit. And when Jack shows that he pulls the arm, the difference of like, oh, so that's what Jack Torrance said. He didn't just like, oh, come here, kid.

34:33 He literally pulled that kid like with every power. And that's what I love when you get to see them both tell the story from their perspective. But even though Jack's still doing the same thing of like, well, it was nothing. It was an accident, you know, but same thing. She says an accident. Yeah, but the way they tell the story shows so much so that's the other thing too that they're she's being locked up with a guy that they put it on the alcohol but i think it's just i think the alcohol and that's where i still put i can't push back against king it's his book but like i feel like that's where the alcohol and the shining allegory still works because it's like okay let's say he is a piece of shit guy but

35:04 when he's off the sauce he can like keep it at bay right he's not he's not father year but he can just be like i'll be working get the monies whatever do that right and not hit her or the kid and i feel like when he gets to the shining obviously he does start drinking or the overlook he does start drinking again That still kind of works as an alcoholic replacement as far as that's feeding him going.

35:22 And I think it's also because he's the weakest one out of the group. So the house can pick on him and get him to do that stuff. But to your point, Dylan, about his chemistry with the kid, that's why one of my favorite scenes is when Danny goes to check on Jack when he's sleeping. And Jack gives this whole speech about how much he loves him and he's going to do the right thing. And when I write this book, life's going to be so much better.

35:44 But Jack the whole time is, if you were to read the script, you would think this is a father reassuring his son that true loves his son. But you watch Jack do it. He looks like he's threatening him the entire time. He looks like he is going to kill this kid right now, just his faces. And like, I would never hurt you. And you're like, not believable at all. But that's what I like where, I think that's the good thing, which they say lots of times with kids. Like Danny always picks up right away more that something's off with the father versus his mom, who I think is trying to see the best him or trying to find some sort of light. But Danny knows like, ah, this, this guy's not the best. It's just one of those things,

36:19 you know? Yeah. Yeah. But I, I love, and I love the scene too, where it starts with the first half of the scene, which is the mirror of them and they're in the bed kind of goes back to earlier in the mirror. But, uh, yeah, I, I love that scene of Jack and, uh, Danny. I think that's the last scene they have until they, you know, everything goes awry. So it kind of works. The last thing they have is him like assuring him like, Hey, I'm never going to hurt you. And then, caught him chasing with an axe.

36:45 The scene where he's chasing with an axe, he shows more fatherly, I don't want to say connection or whatever.

36:53 But just more fatherly, like, Daddy boy!

36:55 And he's just got this fucking smile on his face. He looks like a happy father. It just wasn't for the axe and the fucking limp he's got going on.

37:02 He looks like a happy father. I don't know if I'll go that far. He's looking pretty deterred there.

37:06 He's excited to find his son. Yeah, he's excited to find his son, all right.

37:12 But even in the maze, too, when he's walking around, like, fuck, he's... Are we just talking about him now? Or no, because Kirkland, you didn't talk about Wendy.

37:20 I'm sorry.

37:22 That's okay. Yeah, Shelley Duvall, I think she is fantastic in this. I think she plays her role just perfectly. I can definitely see where you're coming from with some of the annoyances of just when she goes, like the extra... the extra distraught-ness, whatever. But I think it is justified. I think I do sympathize with her. And I think, honestly, she's, like, probably giving Jack, like, way too much for, like, what she's maybe, like, tolerating with him. Like, obviously, she's defending him to the, like, the doctor lady. And then just, like, yeah, just he's basically treating her like garbage like throughout the whole film like it seems like he has a little bit more of like a like a facade like earlier

38:15 on in the in the movie and it's probably like the actual acting of the role of like Jack like when he's being what seems to be like a nice nice guy like to her it still just feels like it's like it's an act that he's doing and I think that is intentional like it's not just like a bad actor showing me that he's acting in that role it's like no this is the character where he's actually just so annoyed with his life that he has to, like, put on this fake face to just be cordial with their marriage, right?

38:45 Yes, they are married, yeah.

38:47 Like, with his wife. So I think she's super fantastic. And honestly, this is probably, like, the first version of, like, a final girl type character that I had experienced, like, in movies. So I always just kind of see her as being, like, the pillar of, like, okay, how are you going to have, like, of a girl running away with a weapon trying to defend herself and just like terrified like this is kind of what i would think of so um i'd obviously hold her to to higher um echelons because of that because it's just she is like the og uh final girl in in my mind when when i look back on just the earlier uh exposure to horror movies that i've had but no she's super, super fantastic throughout. And, yeah, I remember, like, as a kid, like,

39:33 seeing her early on in this movie. And, like, before shit hits the fan, I'm like, man, she's just freaky. She just freaks me out. There's something about her. It's just she's got a, I don't know, don't want to rag on anyone's, like, feelings. physical traits by any means, but as a kid... She's got unique features. I just remember seeing her and being like, oh, my God. That's scary.

39:53 It's her eyes. Her eyes are very big, but I think they work for this role, especially because they have to do a lot.

39:59 Very expressive.

40:00 Yeah, to Dylan's point too about the eyes and the crying, at one point she had to start drinking more water because she had no more water left for the crying scene. So she just had to start chugging back water, get some liquids going on.

40:09 It's going to be the next GV film.

40:12 I'm much more the Clint Eastwood one take, we're good. Mine's more because we don't have the time. But some people like that style, some people don't. Fincher is that style now. That's why Jake Gyllenhaal won't work with him. I remember there was this whole thing in Zodiac where it's literally– Jake putting down a binder and they shot that like 50 times and after the movie he's like I've never fucking worked with that guy ever again like it was just a binder why am I putting this down and he's like and there's a whole clip online of them arguing like you want me to put it down like this or like this and he's like yeah put it down like this he puts it down and he's like no that's not how I want you to

40:41 put it down and it's literally just a it's a binder on his seat and it's the funniest thing to watch in retrospect but yeah I don't think I could ever I feel like unless it's like takes being screwed up, I feel like 10 is maybe the maximum. Like I wonder, but I get the point, right? Is the idea is you want to just keep going and see further and further.

41:01 Cause there's some people that say, Oh, that does help me. And that is like the longer I got into it, like you become more of that person versus you delivering the lines. But yeah, when you get to that, that 40 sphere, I feel like, I don't know that that's going to be something else, you know, it's a whole different plane view.

41:15 So, um, Kirkland, you mentioned, uh, just the, Her being the final girl is kind of a funny thought to me, just because that kind of implies that there's other people that are dying in this. And that's where I wanted to ask you guys about the chef character, because to me, that to me was like the most obvious thing of like, what is this character doing in here? Like, what does this add to the movie? This seems to me like you cut him out of the movie, you save 15 minutes, we're all good. I feel like obviously at the start of the movie, he's there. I mean, first, as you guys mentioned, like the first half an hour is just like expedition time. exposition, like dumping all over the place.

41:47 And obviously he's kind of the one who explains the concept of the shining. Then I feel like the stuff later on where he's like calling the station over and over again, then he gets up in his, like in the, in the snow cat thing that he's coming up and then he just like dies instantly. And I feel like maybe the purpose of that is that's the, it's so that Jack like had someone to kill because obviously there's not any other people here and they wanted there to be a big, an actual bloody murder, not just like a weird hallucination that happened so many times. But for me, when that happened, it was, kind of like, well, what has this been all for? Like I, so I'm curious what you guys think of the chef and what does

42:18 he add to the movie other than like explaining the concept of the shining to Danny?

42:23 Yeah.

42:24 For, for me, I take it as he's like a beacon of hope that we have for like our innocent people in this film, like from the get go. He seems really nice, like he's talking to Danny, and he just seems like a nice man. I think he's creepy.

42:39 The fact that he knows the kid's nickname, to me, he comes across as so creepy in that scene.

42:43 Well, he read his mind, right? That's why. They have that connection going on.

42:50 Just the fact that he knows about the power is like, okay, this is probably someone I can trust in some way, shape, or form.

42:55 I don't know.

42:57 I got friendly vibes from him over creepy, but Later on in the film, he's checking up on them and trying to get info through the patrol, the rangers or whoever is on the other side of the radios there. He's just the one person that seems like, I don't know, he could potentially save these people. He's actually invested. He's actually traveling there. He's traveling there in the snowcat. As a viewer, if you're watching this for the first time, it's like, this is going to be the guy that actually saves the kid and the wife, but then to just instantly get bopped. I haven't seen a lot of Stephen King things, but I feel like Stephen King has a habit of just giving you that false hope and then just gut punch. We just murder this gentleman right

43:42 in front of you, right when you think that he was about to get out. I think it was The Mist. Did he do The Mist? Is that a Stephen King project?

43:50 The Mist, yes, which is also another gut punch thing.

43:53 The ending of that, yeah, big gut punch. I just remember... It's like, okay, I can never have hope in a Stephen King project these days. And that's kind of what I attribute that character to being. Yeah, but good point. There isn't really many people for Jack to take out beyond his family. So I guess it does add to just having someone as a victim so that we can have Wendy go in there and just freak out by seeing a body.

44:19 I will say, even though you're right on the project, so if someone doesn't tell me, the missed ending is actually a happy ending. The movie they changed it, Frank Durban changed it to that really fucked up ending.

44:29 Oh, the movie?

44:30 Oh, wow. Yeah, and King's been on record on that one saying it's better than his book, the movie. So there you go. It's a reverse there.

44:37 But it was more fucked up.

44:39 Yeah, he's like, yeah, I should have done that.

44:41 He shakes like an eight ball, and he's like, yeah, I'll say that's how I feel about this one.

44:44 Yeah.

44:45 Well, it's funny. Maybe I have it in there, but at some point, weird way that hollywood works that's kubrick had the rights to the shiny and stanley or and stephen king didn't so when they want to make the tv series king had to go buy the rights back from kubrick and the deal was that to stop talking shit about the movie and which he did do eventually and then eventually he stopped talking yeah and then the last then i think the last time king on record spoke about he's like oh you know i actually watch it now i like it now like more i understand it a bit but it's like well i don't know how genuine this is but excuse me it's been dead for a while but um With Scatman and Crothers, fuck, I love... Has anyone seen One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?

45:21 That's another one he does with Jack. Man, that's a really good one. Watch that at some point. That's another one that I think Jack won his first Oscar for, I think. I think so, yeah. So I think, yeah, he's there for the exposition. I think they're trying to establish, because I think that's one thing King likes to do, is he is trying to... So obviously, lots of books are the same, but they're trying to establish that The Shining is not just exclusive to Danny. So it's like, okay, it's going to be a multi-faceted, okay, Danny has these shining powers, Scatman Crother has these shining powers, Jack does, they don't really say it in the movie, but Jack does in the books, and then obviously the house is

45:57 kind of like a hotbed for that, and then practically, obviously he does technically save them, right, because he gets the vehicle up there. I think the only thing, I don't think you're wrong as far as technically you could cut all that stuff out, not make too much of a difference. I think kind of like to Kirkland's point, though, the first time I watched it, I thought he was, I don't know if he's going to survive, but I thought he was going to be the turning point of this mother and son are in big trouble and he's going to save everything. And other than getting the vehicle up there, he doesn't. So I think he just kind of, he uses like a red herring, which I do enjoy.

46:29 And then I also think from why that stuff's so long in the movie, I think it's just to give the viewers a break. Because I feel like there's a lot of spooky, tense stuff going on. And then when he gets there and that whole segment happens, it's like right before we're going to get to the really bad stuff.

46:44 So I wonder if that's part of it, too. Like, hey, let's just have, you know, five minutes here, ten minutes here, just to, like, give a breather. Because there's not, like, you can't really give a breather with Jack, because he's off the deep end. Wendy's fucking freaking out. Danny's just having seizures anywhere. There's no, like, comedic character, and that's kind of Scatman and Crothers, right? Because he's kind of like a happy-go-lucky guy. I appreciate I read in the trivia that they put the naked photo of the girl, because they wanted to establish this isn't, like, an uber-religious, like, spiritual character. Like, he's just a normal guy who happens to have, like, the superpowers like Danny, they didn't want

47:14 to like make it like, Oh, he has a higher power. It's like, no, he just, he happens to have the shining too. And he, you know, whatever. So I think that that's why. So I, I could see, uh, that side of kind of things, but I guess it's, um, it's still, it still works for me, but I also just like Scatman and Crothers. I love his voice. I just love the demeanor he has. And, uh, fan of, I don't think I've seen a bunch of stuff, but fan of things I've seen him in. So, but yeah, you're talking about earlier, you're a fan of Dick.

47:40 So, I'm a fan of him, yeah.

47:42 From the moment he's in there and he just creates this kind of like bond with Danny, I do like it. And I think that he's just ultimately serves the purpose of just getting a snowmobile out there to help them escape. That's just what it serves. And there's so many different theories that you can deep dive into about him being another um, method that the overlook is employing to try and get Danny out, to try and get to Danny by having, you know, this guy, the chef come back, all these different things. That, that one was a loose one.

48:16 I don't know how that really goes. I'm not sure if it was like to coax Danny out so that like the, that, um, Jack could get him or something. I don't know, but there's just, there's, there's all these different things. The thing that I like is just the simplicity factor. He could sense Danny is in trouble cause he had that connection and he wanted to go and, and help. And, um, I feel like he probably knew it was going to be his end by going up there.

48:38 I feel like he might have had a hunch about something like that.

48:41 But again, it's up to interpretation. I don't know why, too. But when he's just.

48:47 Shit's starting to go sideways. You can tell there's negative energy forming. And it just cuts to him in his fucking bachelor suite. And it's just him lying there, spreading his fucking... amazingly expensive pajamas on his bed and it just pans out and there's that naked chick up on the back wall and then he goes and gets on his phone and he's got this naked chick up on this wall too like he's just living like a fucking like what a guy what a.

49:10 Guy also if you notice the walls in his place where he is is the same paint tiling as many of the rooms in The Shining or The Overlook as well too so it goes into your theory of... I feel like it's the opposite. I feel like when Jack talks to Grady, they don't want him there because of the risk of them working together. Which, again, the Doctor Sleep, too, and two people that have The Shining are kind of interlinked.

49:29 To me, that's why I think Jack kills them right away because in Doctor Sleep, they establish if they can kind of feed off each other's... and push things forward where I feel like that's what they need. This guy needs to be dead right away because Danny's a kid, right? It's different with the adults. Maybe they could link up, but I feel like they don't. I don't know if they want him there because when Grady's like, oh, he's on his way, there's the cook.

49:53 So I did a little snooping Google thing with the It Welcome to Derry. So apparently everyone is just saying that this guy is Dick Halloran.

50:03 Oh, yeah.

50:05 Uh because he would been he would have been a young military chef at this point and people are just saying like this this guy is that this is him chris chalk is.

50:13 Supposed to be playing him and welcome to dairy so hell.

50:16 Yeah what a name well we'll be reviewing that so that'll be interesting to see if i don't i don't think any of the other people are popping up but that'd be that'd be fun to get them in there if you if they can get the rights to do that because shining is a warner brothers movie and if people they probably i think we might have talked about this the My favorite movie logo of all time. That's why I had Taylor make the GV Studios look like it.

50:35 That old school Warner Brothers logo, the red, the black, and like the W and the B, man, that thing is, they should have never changed it. Well, obviously they're going to get bought one day, so Warner Brothers isn't going to be a thing, but I love that logo so much. That's why when I told Taylor, hey, make it look something like this, because I love that thing so much.

50:54 But yeah, WB does own The Shining, so maybe they still have some rights to use that character, so that'll be fun.

50:59 Yeah.

51:00 All in all, though, I think he's just such an interesting character that I wish we got a little bit more of in this movie.

51:07 But, yeah, no, it is fucking brutal.

51:11 Again, I already said it, but when he's walking and it's so quiet, you can't hear anything.

51:17 He's just like, hello? Anybody here?

51:19 And Jack just fucking does a close-up of Jack's face.

51:25 And he just sucks his lower lip in. like inhales and he swings his fucking axe and.

51:32 Just he's there's nothing there's no communication between the two of them it just like danny screams and then it's just boom outside like backed out shot of just dick just on the ground dead he's fucking done and you don't even have time to process.

51:46 It it's just such a crazy.

51:49 Fucking scene my goodness but again just goes to show their connection.

51:53 Well, yeah, and it's kind of funny that they don't really, I can't remember the book, because I read the book when I was in middle school, like sometime a little bit after I had read this, because I wanted to see it. And like I said, I still enjoy the book. It has lots of the same isms, but so in the movie, though, him and Holloway don't really interact that much at the Overlook before everything goes to crap. It's more him with Danny and Wendy, and he's off doing his stuff with the other two guys. So it's kind of like they might have not even said one word to each other, and that's all you, that's the next time you see this guy, he just has a, axe six inches into your chest and just I think for

52:25 me what is so gnarly not only just a score but for me it's not that he hits him and that he hits him and it's just like that way he's like wrenching like he's trying to like push it forward there's something that's just so off about that in a good way and that's why I love like the axe is just like we've seen so many movie weapons now but they make it seem like it is fucking Thor's hammer in this thing and I love the shots of when he's bringing that door and it's like the falling of it and it's tracking on that Kubrick shot that himself he did something where he got a tripod and he wanted to go like this. But while he was tracking it, he was also looking at the screen to make sure he was doing it, but he said

52:58 he wanted to shoot himself. But I just love that. Oh, we're about to see poor Scatman Crothers. That's a good fit. I love that jacket, though. Betty's worn that.

53:08 And then.

53:09 Yeah. It's this. He's got the tongue out. Yeah, he's just... And I mean, that is a, that is the sign of like those eyes Jack Nicholson has. That is a crazy person. That man, that man is not all there. And I just, I love it, man. I, I, I love, I just, it's so good. That last back half and the whole, when it starts off with the, the speech that, that is probably my favorite part of the movie that Dylan, someone they don't take about the stairs. I just like the whole downworld smile of Jack is, but just that whole speech and, walking up and i'm not gonna hurt you and you know light of my life i always call emily then she gives me the eyes because she knows from but i just like darling light of my

53:52 life i'm not gonna hurt you i'm just gonna bash your fucking brain and then when she hits him in the hand he's like oh like he i love that he looks like upset that she hit like he can't believe that she hit him which i think is kind of going into like the time period of like a woman should you know the way he is like give me the bat like you shouldn't go against the man at all right so when he gets in the hand he's like So shocked. And that's the thing. He gets beat by her. He gets ousted by a fucking 10-year-old kid in the maze. That's what I do like about the Jack character. He's not some savant genius. He's just a madman. And again, he would have lost. Wendy beat him and blocked him up. If it wasn't for any

54:30 of the ghosts or if it was Danny, he's just stuck in there. But that shot, too, of the... you know, I have Taylor doing something similar our second movie, but that shot, man, is just, when he's doing that whole speech of, like, oh, I gotta, he starts with the gaslighting, like, oh, I think I hurt my head, and I just feel really bad, but now let's talk, and then he just, like, something's coming for you. Just the, all the variations he goes through in a minute of emotions is, man, so good.

54:54 When he's in this dry storage, and he, this point, like, he wakes up, and he's like, Wendy, and it sounds kind of like he had, like, a A moment where he's kind of relieved from being possessed there. But when he's talking to the ghost or the spirit.

55:10 Grady.

55:10 Grady, yeah. And Grady is just like, oh, I don't think you can do it. I don't think you can do it. And then there's that brief moment where Grady is like, I and others. We don't really believe in you. You don't have the heart for it. It's like, fuck, I and others.

55:23 And it just kind of instills that all these, again, depending on what you believe with this movie.

55:29 If it's Danny or whatever.

55:30 All these different demonic presences that are inside this hotel that just want him to murder his wife.

55:36 It's just, it's eerie.

55:38 Yeah, which I don't think they do that. I think in the movie it is to show that Jack Torrance is weak. You talk about it in your opening. In the book it is more to show like there's still a good person in Jack Torrance. Because yeah, he does not, in the movie Jack, or sorry, in the book, Jack just does like a sacrifice. He like burns the hotel down and lets them get away. Because he knows he's kind of screwed. He can't get out. even the point where like Danny graduates and he sees like the ghost of his dad, like, like happy clapping for him.

56:01 So, which I do get it.

56:03 It is, it is forced. And again, like forced Jack Torrance, but which I, I do understand, but again, I don't mind the, the mom being that beacon. And then him just being in this version, he's not a, he's, I, I couldn't see this Jack Nicholson doing that sacrificial play. And so you run and I'm going to take down the hospital. So that's why I like, it's more of just, him being weak. And he's, it feels like he's trying to earn the respect of these ghosts, which obviously plays into, cause that's on the book, the whole portrait at the end, right?

56:34 With the 1921. And there's always that debate of like, okay, is it just cause he died and he got sucked in that image? It's kind of like the house takes another one. Or is this a re aided version of a guy? Cause great. He does say like, you're the caretaker. You've always been the caretaker.

56:48 Right.

56:49 And is it like, and that like that version better where it's almost like from day one, the moment Jack Torrance was born, he was, Because he was always going to end up back here. And he's just kind of like... The Shining, the house is kind of in him. The same way Danny's like a 10-year-old and has the Shining.

57:04 But he's not a monster. So I like the idea more of that there is like a reincarnation sort of sense. Because if you believe in a heaven, then I assume you kind of believe in a hell. So I feel like that's the way I kind of look at it. The Shining has one of their own out there. And the second he took that job interview, it was over for him. His fate was locked. But that photo, man, I absolutely... I still get chills right now thinking about it because I think it's such a great way where it ends they drive off and it's just oh it comes down and you just see him there and you're like oh my god I remember as a kid that was like I think that was the thing that stuck with me of like mind blown of like what's he

57:41 doing in that painting you know and I still one day got to get Taylor to photoshop one of me in there but I see Taylor what you're bringing up.

57:47 For easy photoshop Kirkland what's your interpretation of the photo.

57:55 Of that photo. Um, I took it, I've kind of always taken it the same way and maybe I'm wrong in this, but, uh, just since he died, like on the residence, he's just like a part of the overlook now. Like his, his spirit, just like how the, um, Do they have a name for, like, the previous Jack, like, went crazy and killed, like, the twins?

58:17 Grady. That was Grady.

58:18 Oh, okay, that is Grady.

58:19 Yeah, he's the waiter in the bathroom. He's bald, and he's the one that killed the twins.

58:23 Just like, oh, I imagine Grady wasn't always a part of that. Like, it's just, like, a cycle thing, but.

58:28 I don't know.

58:29 Maybe not, because maybe that list would have to just keep getting bigger and bigger, but it seems like it's just kind of been Jack and Grady.

58:36 For your theory, they kind of do that with In Doctor Sleep, because Jack becomes the bartender. in doctor sleep so to your theory and other people that have that theory it's kind of like okay he's sucked into the house now i think just for me because he's in the middle of the photo it's like there's something a little bit more up there because he's so centered but maybe just anybody that dies last is just the middle of that photo right but yeah in doctor sleep he is the bartender and some really great scenes.

59:01 Yeah for sure um what were we talking about before that.

59:06 Painting painting.

59:09 Um oh the uh basically the moral obligation that jack keeps like bringing up and like he at this point he's just crazy but like he he always throws that into his wife's face of like you think we could just leave like i made a moral obligation to like look over this hotel which is hilarious because as Dylan, you brought up, like he's doing fuck all, it's all Wendy doing all of the, uh, the maintenance upkeep and, and not letting winter take over, like the elements take over, like, like Buddy said at the beginning of the film. Um, but yeah, like when, and I agree, it's probably, it's probably my favorite scene when, when he's just like approaching her on the stairs and she's, she's, uh, freaking out.

59:47 She just discovered that this whole time he's just been writing the same fucking phrase over and over and over again. It's just like a colliding of so many things, but He like brings that up again. It's just like, I have a moral obligation to my employer. You think I could have like, you know what.

1:00:02 Will happen to me if I leave this job? Yeah.

1:00:05 And then, and then it all like, it's kind of similar to what Grady's talking to him about, right? When he's trapped in the dry storage of like, you know, it's disappointing that like we thought you were basically just like an employee. And it's unfortunate that you're not going to be able to, lived to that standard and I feel like that that was a big mindset thing especially just back then like like we're talking about the image oh yeah you get you get a lady pregnant and you kind of okay well now you have to marry them that's going to be your your family for life now and very much so with like working like I there's so many people that just like okay I'm a milkman for life now like that's just my job that's

1:00:42 that's who I am or a postal man so it's just.

1:00:44 Especially because she's not, I would assume, they don't mention in the movie, and I don't know the book, but it doesn't look like she's working. So it's that classic element of the woman stays at home and the man has to provide, right? So that's the idea. Well, that's why I'm doing all this, which again, like we've talked about, he's not doing, he's writing the same words over, he's going into fucking rooms, making out with dead chicks, he's bouncing a ball on the wall, which was Jack Nicholson's idea, because the script just said Jack does nothing. He's like, I'm just not going to walk around. I've got to do something. And then they just had this idea to bounce the ball off all these walls and whatnot.

1:01:18 The most aggressive way possible. Like, the loudest noise.

1:01:24 Yeah.

1:01:25 I thought she was... Wasn't she, like, homeschooling Danny? Was that a line?

1:01:30 True. I think she might have been. Yeah.

1:01:32 That's another thing she did. Would you guys take this job?

1:01:35 Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.

1:01:42 Kirkland seems less.

1:01:43 You guys are so sure. The guys with kids, yes. I don't know.

1:01:50 Yeah, I don't know.

1:01:53 I don't know.

1:01:54 I'm going to have to talk to my family about that.

1:01:56 What about after the fucking employer tells you in detail about the murder? Because to me, that was kind of over the top. If you're trying to get a guy to take this job, I don't know if you would willingly share that information if they ask about it maybe you could comment on it but like i know that seemed like you wouldn't do so much detail about this story obviously it's because it's also exposition but uh yeah i thought that was kind of funny how much detail he goes into there but i would take the job i think maybe regardless of even after he shared that information i just think that would be a fun i don't know if i'd want to do every year for the rest of my life of course but like for one year that could be a fun winter job to.

1:02:33 Have Five months locked away, just no one bugging you. You got all this food. You got this, like, the... Yeah, don't get me wrong. I think it would, regardless of ghosts or not, be scary at some times because it's such a massive... The murder stuff, yeah, I'd have to... I'd have to think a little bit, but I'd love to.

1:02:50 Like, medically, I think it'd be freaky if you just have some accident or something. You might just.

1:02:54 Oh, yeah.

1:02:55 You're done. You're done for.

1:02:57 Yeah, so that is the other thing. So that's why, too, even... I guess it's... I guess it's making me, but you could argue it's even just going up there with Danny is kind of questionable, right? Like, not only just a kid, but the way Danny is, it's like, he's not, he's got a lot of other needs. Yeah, so it's like, same thing maybe, but again, I don't blame that on Wendy because I'm sure Jack would have strong-armed her, not literally, but in a way to get them up there. Maybe literally.

1:03:22 Maybe literally, but that idea of just being away five months, all that snow, everything, you know, that'd be great until you get to room 237 and then, your vacation's over, you know, it's, it's not going good for you.

1:03:35 So, um, uh, Travis, I got a question for you.

1:03:40 So I could be completely wrong with this.

1:03:44 The reason I put that photo into a stream.

1:03:47 Doesn't Wendy remind you of Emily Travis? Yeah. The photo. Yeah.

1:03:53 It's the photo here. Uh, So for the past little bit.

1:03:58 Between the period of the Halloween poll retro starting for when the patrons had to pick which movie we were going to do, I feel like you started dropping that photo more often in the Discord. Were you trying to subliminally get our patrons to vote for the movie? No.

1:04:15 I like doing that for anyone joins patron. Cause it's just like, I used to use the Charlton Heston. Welcome to the madhouse. But I, I like the shining one. Cause it's just like a fun, like, Oh, you're a part of the team, but it's also, okay.

1:04:25 I just have to be sure.

1:04:26 Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe it was, but no, I, I, I just love that photo, uh, in general there, which Kubrick said at one point he was going to try to recreate and he couldn't. So they just use some photo from that time. And they just, uh, airbrushed, uh, Nicholson on it. You can find the original photo of the original guy on there, but, uh, Um, yeah. So, um, anything specifically scenes wise, I was going to just shout out, there's not much to say cause it's a great scene, but I remember as a kid being rocked by two, three, seven, just cause I feel like that's definitely an early age of seeing some, some naked titties. No, not AB repeat.

1:05:01 Cause that's not a sexy scene though. It's like, cause I feel like that's like, I would have to think, but the stuff I'm consuming, I think that might be one of the earliest times I've seen like adultery on screen. Right. Cause you're like, okay, From what I saw, it's like, well, he's married. He's a kid. Like, what's going on here?

1:05:16 That's not something I knew about in my life. So I think with that, and the music is not, like, it's creepy. Obviously, it just came from Danny got attacked in that room. So no A, B, or P. But, yeah, I remember when that reveal happened of just being, I was looking like Danny, being like, oh, my God. And then even when they do, for me, what's more creepy is the shot from Danny's perspective in the middle of it when they have, like, the camera is positioned the way that you would be looking at it from the eyes from a kid, and he looks down the bathtub and just sees this dead old lady, and the way she just sits up, like, stoically, like, not moving, and then she just moves and, like, cut, and you don't

1:05:50 see what happens, that, oh, it's right there, that, to me, is the, because I feel like we don't see that, we don't see, like, a POV from a kid in a movie, so seeing just this little, you know, three-foot kid looking down at this rotting woman in a bathtub, it's like, oh my God. And then that's when you know Jack's completely screwed up because he's like, oh, nothing going on in that room. It's completely fine. And you're like, oh no, he's gone. And I guess at first you're like, well, is he lying to her because to protect her? But he seems like he's just kind of all down for it.

1:06:19 And yeah, before I forget, like Tara said, that is the backstory of that lady that she was just sleeping with young guys and eventually I think She gets stood up one night, so she kills herself in that bathtub. But there is a theory in the scene where Grady spills the alcohol on to Jack. There is one on the table, so I did not know until today. There's a young man sitting with a very older woman, and people think that's her in that scene. And she's like, the reason they say is because when Jack walks by her, she gives him like a very icy cold stare. It's non-focus.

1:06:48 It's like very much off to the side. but it's like, oh, god damn, I love that, where it's like, not like, it's something that now, again, all these years later, it's like, now that's something every time I'm watching it, because I heard that fact, and then watched the scene, I was like, oh, that, that's really cool, that is just this little Easter egg somewhere in there, that she's probably sitting at that table, and then again, just another person gets sucked up by the house, right, so, yeah, two, three, seven.

1:07:11 Yeah, room two, three, seven, that's like, been a reoccurring, uh, I don't want to say a joke, but just a reoccurring meme, I guess in my family, my dad will always just send a photo of like the key of like two, two, three, seven, like around Halloween time. So, um, yeah. And very much probably the scene that just stood out the most when I watched that first time as a kid, especially like when it, when it cuts like the rotten lady, which is like hugging Jack Nicholson and like, they just, they just macked. And yeah, just that laugh. It's, uh, very, uh, Very anti-A.B. repeat, I would say.

1:07:50 After that, he just shows up with Wendy. He's like, everything's fine. He looks so composed and just so chill.

1:07:57 He didn't just make out with this dusty fucking ghost wench thing.

1:08:04 What a sentence. Have you guys ever been in a hedge maze before?

1:08:09 No.

1:08:13 Yeah, once, but a small one.

1:08:16 Taylor, you said yes, yeah?

1:08:19 Mm-hmm.

1:08:19 Where was that at?

1:08:20 Can't remember, but I remember being in it.

1:08:22 Whoa.

1:08:23 That's freaky.

1:08:24 You don't remember where it was?

1:08:25 There was snow. I think my dad was chasing me. I don't remember where it was, but I do remember being in one. It was pretty intricate.

1:08:34 Huh.

1:08:36 Travis, do you know where the one you did was?

1:08:38 No, I don't. That's freaky.

1:08:40 You guys should find out. I feel like that's something you should know.

1:08:43 Is there not one somewhere in Vancouver, like a small one or something? I feel like that would have been.

1:08:47 It's like Stanley Park in Vancouver.

1:08:48 That's where I thought they maybe had one or something. But yeah, I feel like mine was like a very small one, opposed to this, where the crew did have to carry walkie-talkies because they would legitimately get lost in there. So there's many people. that spent some time in there. But no, not anything to that degree, though.

1:09:06 Which, yeah, apparently that's an addition for the movie. It was not in the book.

1:09:09 No.

1:09:09 But he wanted that, which I think is probably another good allegory for going insane and losing yourself and that kind of stuff. Does that make sense?

1:09:17 Plus that shot when he's looking down the fake maze and they have them in there. I really liked that.

1:09:22 Yeah, that was cool. I liked that. One thing I really liked, I mean, the cinematography is really great overall, but I really liked some of the really harsh cuts that happen. Like even early on in the movie when Danny is talking with the chef and he's like explaining this whole, you know, the whole concept, the exposition of the shine and how all that works. But the way that, like that's a very long scene, you know, if you factor in like him doing the full tour and everything.

1:09:46 And then, like, the way it ends is just, like, a super harsh cut, which, yeah, is, like, I don't know. I feel like a lot of these scenes are really slow, plodding, building up to things. And then it won't even end with, like, some big moment, but it's just, like, a really harsh cut. And then the time that happened, too, is, like, at one point, you know, we do, like, a one-month-later jump.

1:10:04 And then the next time jump we get is just, like, Tuesday, right? But it's like, we don't know what day of the week it is. So it's like such a jarring thing. I'm like, okay, we're jumping to Tuesday.

1:10:11 Be like, I don't know.

1:10:11 Was it Monday? Was it Friday? Like how many days just passed? And then obviously at some point it jumps to like Wednesday or something. So it's like, okay, we've skipped one day since Tuesday. But I think to me, that seems like very intentional of just like really throwing you off and like the time of like how long this has been, how long it hasn't been, that kind of stuff. So I thought that was like a nice moment as well. But yeah, I think in general, just a lot of the harsh cuts, the way the scenes end, the transitions I thought were, uh, were pretty good.

1:10:38 Yeah.

1:10:39 And even then it's funny when you get to like the day of the events and it starts moving to like time increments instead of the days. So just kind of all over the place, like 4 PM it's like, Oh, okay, cool.

1:10:47 But yeah, yeah, for sure.

1:10:50 Yeah.

1:10:51 Uh, I'm gonna show that scene where Jack is just, he's in the ballroom. Everyone's having a good time partying and, uh, he gets his, drink, and then the caretaker, Grady, ghost spills the tray on him and then takes him to the bathroom.

1:11:07 And it just starts off, like, just, it's very light.

1:11:09 You know, he's just hallucinating, you think, whatever. And then it just starts to go down this dark... It becomes much more quiet. You can't really hear what's going on in the ballroom anymore. It's just the two of them in this room, and it becomes very, very dark with Grady, like, what are you gonna do about it?

1:11:25 There's outside help coming, and it's like, fuck, this just... It just.

1:11:30 yeah you have an aesthetic and an environment atmosphere that's just very you know it's back to being like social and you feel like there's people around even though it's all fake it still gives you as a viewer a bit more peace of mind in this context and then it just takes that away so I think it's in this movie is full of those moments where it creates something and then it's good at just restricting that or removing it and then it just makes you feel like so.

1:11:53 Yeah great scene for the guy that's just in one scene other than like yeah you hear his voice later on but good moment.

1:12:02 Jack's his bartender Lloyd is that just a character that he like knew in his life because he said that was like always his favorite bartender I don't.

1:12:15 Think so and that's where I go in the theory of he's been there before so I guess you could say that maybe it's someone from his mind but I think it's like he already knows these places especially when I can't remember the full context but Jack and It's the first conversation Jack and Wendy have when he wakes up.

1:12:32 He's like, oh, I think she's talking about it's kind of weird or lonely. I know, but he's like, oh, I love it here. It feels like I've been here my whole life. So I think that's, for me, that goes into my side of the theory where I think he has been here before, and it is he just knows this guy off by name, which he doesn't have any money to start off with. They give him a drink, but the more crazy he gets, the next time he goes to the bar, his wall's loaded with cash. So it's almost like they're rewarding him for Going deeper into the madness of, oh, okay, now you've done this and this, and then here's your money. And again, very much loving Dr. Sleep.

1:13:03 He becomes the bartender with his alcohol problem and everything.

1:13:06 Do you think that, in retrospect, because of Dr.

1:13:09 Sleep, that's a great point with Jack being the bartender, do you think Lloyd could be Jack's abusive father spirit there?

1:13:16 There's a chance. You could have that there. That could work.

1:13:19 Mm-hmm.

1:13:22 Creepy.

1:13:23 No comment.

1:13:23 Okay.

1:13:24 Yep.

1:13:26 I gotta watch Doctor Sleep again. It's been a minute. Yeah.

1:13:30 Anything else before we go on?

1:13:32 Didn't really talk about Danny too much. I do think in an era of like this would have been lesser child actors like he really was fantastic.

1:13:40 Yeah. He only did two things. This and a TV movie and then he quit acting because he said it was boring.

1:13:45 I love that.

1:13:47 He is in Doctor Sleep. He has a cameo as like a parent on the baseball team. He has one Like, he makes a joke about some kid being psychic or something. But, yeah, no, he just did this in a movie, and he said, yeah, sure, you don't got to do anymore. And then he became, I think, a professor or something like that. So shout out to... Crazy.

1:14:06 Yeah, no, I think it's fantastic, the whole film. The one scene that I don't love in particular, and I think it just goes on too long. It kind of fits the purpose, but it's basically... I think the mom is sleeping, and then Tony comes in, and he's just repeating, Red Rom, Red Rom, Red Rom. The scene just feels like it goes on for 10 minutes of him just repeating this, and he's doing it in the Tony voice.

1:14:33 It gets worse and more grating like that. It said 43 times before it's revealed the word murder. So there you go, Kirkland. You felt it was too much.

1:14:42 How many takes was it?

1:14:43 43,000. This poor child.

1:14:51 His voice is just shredded. We're going to run that back one more time.

1:14:55 Hopefully he was a bit nicer to the kid than he was to the other actors.

1:14:59 He was. I don't know if I put it in the trivia, but him and the kid had a really good relationship. They told the kid he was in a drama. They heavily shot around him. And when they showed him the movie, he saw a very short cut that had none of the horror stuff in it. He didn't see the full movie until he was 18 and then learned later on that it was a horror movie. And then he said in his classes that he refused, like he'll, I think he said jokingly, but disciplined students that they asked about The Shining because he's like, I have no information on it. I don't remember a single thing doing with it. But like when he graduated, Kubrick called them and sent him a gift and all this stuff. So he stayed in contact with them for a while. So

1:15:36 at least that, yeah, Kubrick made sure the kid was very well protected. Even lots of the scenes where The mom is holding him for a lot of the stuff. It's just a doll. It's not actually a kid. So they're like, we don't really want him subject. Anytime Shelley Duvall's yelling, like we don't want him in this scene at all. So they did a good job.

1:15:52 I like that. Kudos.

1:15:53 Yeah. So, which is funny. You just think you're in this like, I don't know, marriage drama again as him. And then when you, that must've been what experience to watch the first time, like 18, you've heard about this and you have like some memories, but then you're watching like, I was in this and all this stuff. Like it's just, I hope there's an interview out there. Someone really asked him about that stuff, but he does a couple like cons here and there.

1:16:15 So yeah, he does. He does a really good job.

1:16:18 Yes.

1:16:19 To your point, Kirkland in the era where we don't expect that. I thought he, yeah, he did really great.

1:16:27 Anything else for some true man? I think we hit on everything. But then I would just, the next hour, just be like, I love this scene. I love this scene. So, you know, there's not much more.

1:16:37 Well, speaking of scenes, I got one more I'll play.

1:16:39 This one just always, it fucking cracks me up every time.

1:16:42 My favorite gif of all time.

1:16:44 Because it comes out of nowhere in the movie.

1:16:46 What scene is this for the audio listeners?

1:16:48 It's 30 seconds of just a zoom in on Jack's face.

1:16:52 It's the first time when he's kind of breaking. Like everything's fine. And then you just get the shot. And that's the shot where people think he looks like the, whatever the fucking animal I said earlier, I can't remember, but he's very bold. The Minotaur, yeah, because it's like the way his eyebrows are in his eyes and if you put it over and stuff, but yeah, that's a fantastic Saturday.

1:17:13 The other one that I love too is when Danny, it's like revealed that he has like bruises on his neck and then like Wendy's just like accusing him of doing that to him and like he's been either just possessed or has no.

1:17:25 Idea what the fuck is going on.

1:17:27 He's just like.

1:17:29 I don't, I don't understand what's happening right now.

1:17:32 He just is doing the ghost. And yeah, cause it just feels like I didn't know kid now. Like, and that's the thing where he is innocent in this moment, but that kind of works towards it.

1:17:40 Right.

1:17:40 Cause you think maybe there's a chance, like if he was told regularly, maybe he would activate the situation differently, but because he's already messed up, he's like more messed up about it. So he doesn't, it's almost like the, the abuse of a kid is so low on his totem pole. Cause he's seen fucking ghosts now and stuff, you know, but. Never shares with anybody. Keeps it to himself.

1:18:01 To promote our 24-hour stream, one of us, I'd say either Taylor or Travis should do that face and then that hard cut to Saturday, but then put the date of our 24-hour stream.

1:18:11 That would be good.

1:18:12 A little easy little promo there.

1:18:14 Got to get that sweater, too, at the turtleneck. Lots of good sweaters in here. I can't wait. Next year, me and Emily are doing Jack and Wendy for Halloween, and the twins are going.

1:18:24 To be the.

1:18:24 I love Wendy's outfits in here, too.

1:18:26 Oh, yeah.

1:18:27 Like the color palettes. And I mean, she just has such a striking look and mixed with the outfits, I think is such a cool looking character.

1:18:34 Which again, to clarify, the girls are not twins. They do say they're eight and 10. They just look like twins, but a very common misconception. They're not twins, but I'm going to make my twins do that. because you know why.

1:18:43 Not so not lower accurate so.

1:18:46 Yeah let's see um oh and i guess the only thing i had to check is at the very beginning the first time when she the speech of like when you hear me type in and not typing the moment when she's walking in with a food or like a tray of water and it's scary music, but it stops with him ripping the paper out of the typewriter. The editing music cues in this are just so good with little stuff. I just wanted to shout that out. I was like, I just always love that. Then it goes quiet, and then it seems like Jack's fine, and then, of course, he does not like her talking in. So, yeah, trivia.

1:19:18 I just said that, yeah, about, well, that was my first note about Danny and how it was heavily edited, so we talked about that. Let's see. For the scene in which Jack breaks down the bathroom door, the process department built a door that could be easily broken. However, Jack Nicholson had been working as a volunteer firefighter marshal and tore it up easily, so the prop department were forced to build a stronger door. They went through, like, dozens of doors on this. I might have it somewhere else, but... Oh, 60 doors is how much it went through, so... It's like Monsters, Inc. Oh, my God. Yeah. Jack and Shelley expressed their open resentment against the reception of the film, feeling the critics and audience credit Stanley Kubrick solely for

1:19:57 the film's success without considering the efforts of the actors, crew, strength, in Stephen King's Underlying Material, which I feel like I get, right? Because I feel like even us nowadays, it's like, oh, man, Nolan, he can do no wrong. I bet with Q, Ricky kind of had that kind of record. Let's see, Nikki, both of them have been on record saying this is one of their hardest roles of their career. In fact, Nick Didder's Duvall's performance would be one of the most difficult he's ever seen an actress take on. Duvall said it was the hardest performance, which I think I can understand.

1:20:25 Let's see. Yeah, Stanley Kubrick, known for his compulsiveness and numerous retakes, got the difficult shot of the blood pouring through the elevators in only three takes. This would be unremarkable if it weren't the fact the shot took nine days.

1:20:38 Forty more times, guys.

1:20:39 Let's keep doing it over and over again.

1:20:42 The shot took nine days to set up. Every time the doors opened, the blood poured out. Kubrick would say, it doesn't look like blood. In the end, the shot approximately took a year to get right. I didn't put this in the trivia, but I should have. In the trailers, this was all, they didn't want the trailers to be rated R, so what Kubrick told the MPA is that there was rusted water that was coming through the elevator, not blood. So that's how that shot got in the trailers.

1:21:04 That's probably how it looked on that first take, too.

1:21:07 And he was pissed, too.

1:21:08 It didn't look like blood.

1:21:09 Rusted water!

1:21:10 Yeah. But they did it three more times, and then I guess they're like, we got no more blood. Stanley. The scene where Jack is chasing Danny through the maze took over a month to shoot. Shoot. Yeah, during that month, several crew members got lost, and walkie-talkies were given for assistance. Which, again, this always makes me feel better. It's crazy when we talk about movies that are really bad. We're like, oh, man, the script. But there were so many changes to the script during the shooting that Jack Nicholson claimed he stopped reading them. He would only read new pages that were given to him each day. Nicholson said eventually, when he was presented with a revised scene, he would just throw

1:21:43 it in the garbage, waiting for the next revision. So that always makes me feel good to that. You think about this, you think all the stuff that's planned out, but like he's getting multiple scripts a day and he's like, I'm not going to read this until we're closer. And that's what it's like. Okay. But again, it's so fun.

1:21:54 We talk about like a bad movie when we like, Oh, they had script issues. No wonder why it was better. Even like when we talk about Avengers doomsday, right. Where it's like, Oh, apparently there's no script and they're shooting where again, like the shining. Even Iron Man.

1:22:06 They're just doing the Kubrick thing. They're just doing the Kubrick thing.

1:22:08 Yeah, that's what Foggy tells them all. You know Kubrick, Director of The Shining? For the scenes where Jack is her typing, when the typing's off screen, Stanley recorded the sound of a typist actually typing the words, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. So there you go. It's actually that being typed out, which again, just little stuff where you don't even have to do that, but you're like, man, just great stuff going on there.

1:22:35 Let's see. Okay, I already mentioned that about Daniel Lloyd. Let's see. Stanley Kubrick originally wanted the actor Slim Pickens. Remember this? We talked about this. When did we talk about this? When did it come up? In Blade?

1:22:55 Wasn't the rapper Slim Pickens?

1:22:57 No, that's... He came.

1:22:59 Up in Blazing Saddles discussion.

1:23:01 Yeah, but what we were reviewing was Slim Pickens. Slim Pickens was in something. No, um... The other play, that's in... Who is that rapper named? Oh, Sticky Fingers. That's the play. Yeah, but who... What were we reviewing? But that's why I put in the trivia because I was like, oh, Slim Pickens. It just happened.

1:23:18 It was a Patreon request, right?

1:23:21 Was it Tron related? That's the only thing I can think of.

1:23:23 Oh, I think it was Tron, the first Tron. Yeah, it was. Yeah. So anyway, Stanley Kubrick, because we talked about him, me and Dr. Strangelove, originally wanted Slim Pickens to play Dick Halloran, but Pickens wanted nothing to do with Kubrick after the experience of Dr. Strangelove. So we could have been talking about Slim Pickens again here, but Slim Pickens for the roles we got. But if you want that retro next year, put it in the poll.

1:23:46 Let's see. Angelica Houston lived with Jack Nicholson during the shooting and said that Jack Nicholson would often return from day shooting, walk straight to the bed, collapse to the bed, and would immediately fall asleep. So I guess it sounded like it was a tiring time.

1:23:57 All work and no play.

1:24:00 Yeah, let's see. He makes Jack a sleepy boy.

1:24:04 A lot of scenes of him sleeping, too. So he'd be sleeping all day, and then he'd come back.

1:24:08 To his dream. Method actor. Let's see. I'm just editing because there's some stuff I already talked about here. This film was only supposed to take 17 weeks, but then only took 51 weeks. because this ran so long, Reds and Raiders of the Lost Ark were delayed. They were supposed to be shooting on the same studio lot. So imagine, I don't know what the, let me quickly look at what the profit was of The Shining, because I wonder if Warner Brothers was just fucking losing their mind, because money had to just be going up, because you're thinking like, oh, like 17 weeks, sure, Stanley, and then like 51 almost full year. So that's tough, 1980. Budget was $ 19 million, box office was $ 48 million, but obviously with, you know.

1:24:49 What am I thinking up here? Changing of money times. What is that?

1:24:54 Changing of money times.

1:24:55 Thank you. Inflation. I'm sure nowadays that's a lot more, but I wonder one of those every day must have been like... I wonder, like, what week do you think they started to worry? Like, he says it's going to be 17 weeks. Like, what do you think was the end of 15?

1:25:07 Probably 15. Not even at the 17 yet.

1:25:10 Yeah, probably close to because, like, oh, you guys are rounding up, right? Like, no, we're still trying to get the elevator thing because they said the elevator thing took a year to get and it shot for 15. So that means, like, that's a pre-production, too, in the post. So it's just, like, just crazy. let's see I put this to me was a good one during the grueling the grueling shoot of this movie the Wimbledon tennis tournament was a Jack Nicholson is an avid tennis fan so he had to find a way to take time out to attend so he pretended to have a battery and asked for a few days off because of his star status Stanley Kubrick granted unfortunately for Jack Nicholson later on the production said they showed him in the crowd Kubrick

1:25:51 furious about the whole incident so Just imagine, like, oh, I got a vaccine.

1:25:55 The original Coldplay concert.

1:25:58 Imagine that, and you got Kubrick, you know, working on this blood elevator. Week 49, he looks at the TV, just sees, oh, here's Jack Nicholson here at Wimbledon. But just so funny, like, oh, yeah, my back. And he just looks up, and.

1:26:09 Oh, man.

1:26:09 They are going out of their way to fuck me. That's what he said to Warner Brothers. Like, I don't know. I'm trying to shoot, but he went to Wimbledon. And then, finally... There's three other actors considered for the role of Jack Torrance. Stanley Kubrick considered Robert De Niro and Robin Williams. Kubrick did not think De Niro. Which one do you like better?

1:26:32 I'll give you the third one as well before we get more. Actually, there's no history on this one, but Harrison Ford was the other one as well. So those were the three before. I'll take Robin Williams. What about you, Kirkland? If you have to recast this, who are you going with? De Niro, Ford, or Williams?

1:26:50 I think I would have to go Williams. He just seems the most expressive out of all of them.

1:26:56 Okay. Taylor? I'd go Williams.

1:26:59 I mean, I don't think I've seen him in anything that wasn't a little bit of comedy or just very.

1:27:05 What? I feel like I've seen him in.

1:27:07 Weren't you on the song when we did the Nolan retro? Or did you not on that one?

1:27:10 No, no, no.

1:27:11 He plays a killer. Have you never seen one of our photos?

1:27:13 He's sleeping.

1:27:15 You should see one of our photos of that one.

1:27:16 I've just seen him in comedic roles and very drama-oriented, serious roles, but nothing horror or killer or anything like that. So that would be a whole new vibe for me to see.

1:27:28 Watch one of our photos. I think you'll like it. I don't even want to say more of it, but he's really creepy in that. For me, it's Ford. I just think he's the closest to Jack. I think the way that he puts it, Kubrick says that he didn't go with De Niro because he thought he wouldn't be psychotic enough. And then he didn't go with Williams because he thought Williams would be too psychotic, which I could also see where I think there's a point where you could worry that could turn not comedic, but you would worry because Ron Williams was always known for improv. And I could just see that not going right with those two, especially with the script and everything. But with Ford, I think those docile tones, and I think he comes off

1:28:05 like De Niro, I don't think definitely could have not done it. Ford, I think I could have saw that. dickish dad, where he hates his wife, hates his kid. I don't know if they had that, but all would have been obviously very different.

1:28:16 I think Ford is a little bit too cool.

1:28:19 That could be it. Yeah, it could be too cool.

1:28:21 I think a big part of it is that Jack just feels like a loser throughout this.

1:28:25 Yes.

1:28:26 That adds to it, I think.

1:28:27 And I think De Niro has that too. De Niro doesn't give off loser vibes. I think he'd almost have... Yeah, a little bit, yeah. I think with De Niro, it's almost like he'd be like a hard dad, like right away. like I don't know I just wonder like in that scene don't get me wrong De Niro's one of the greatest all-time but in the scene where he's accepting the job like I like how like kind of like like foolish like Jack Nicholson feels I don't know if De Niro would have that vibe or Williams would do that vibe and Ford I think he'd play that different I think he'd play almost like you said cooler but His voice, I feel like I could hear that type of cadence.

1:29:00 The scene where he's yelling about the typing, I can see Ford doing that. Like, you're distracting me and stuff.

1:29:06 I'm imagining Williams' agent being like, sorry, buddy, you didn't get the job because he thought you'd be too psychotic.

1:29:13 Just imagine getting that feedback.

1:29:15 How would you feel about that?

1:29:17 Which is funny because I said this, and a quick aside, that they've been tied together a couple times. Because that's why, too, when this movie came out, and then obviously 8... Eight years later, they started to cast the Batman, and when it came out that Jack Nicholson was going to play Joker, everyone was like, oh, he's perfect. And I could definitely argue that he's not even as crazy in Batman as he is in this. I wish they actually would have leaned on that a little bit more. But at that time, Jack Nicholson was offered the role of the Joker. He turned it down because of the money, and they went to Robin Williams to play the Joker. But what came out and Robin Williams found out through some people that

1:29:47 that was a fake offer, they offered him the role of Joker just to make Jack jump. And then Ron Williams, back to Insomnia, did not work with Warner Brothers until 2002 in Insomnia because he said he'd never work with them ever again after he kind of, they used him as like a scapegoat. Like, oh, we're going to go with Robin then. And then Jack Buckle, like, okay, I'll do it. And that's why in Batman Forever, Ron Williams was the first choice of the Riddler. And he said, no, I'm not going to do it because you guys fucked me over. Then they went to Jim Carrey. So it's kind of funny that they had like tied with a couple other Warner Brothers projects. And yeah, for- robbie almost didn't work for the company for two decades because he

1:30:20 just hated what they did to him on batman just because he thought it was a serious offer and i guess it never was it was just a coax jack out of there and jack apparently made a lot of money off the batman because he got back end points and back then that was a big deal and he's like i think he i can't remember i think it's like some people said it's near like the billion like he's made a lot of money off that movie back in the day so but um done ranting i have nothing more to say speak about as many times It's 100 out of 10 for me. I can't give this any more higher score. So, Mr. Musk.

1:30:53 That's probably the highest rating anyone's ever given anything.

1:30:55 I have to, yeah.

1:30:56 First history. That's crazy. I'll cool it down. I'll go eight. I'll go eight. I feel like, I mean, you guys brought up a lot of great points, and obviously you've all seen this movie a lot more than me and have a lot more little details, interpretations that are really interesting to hear. So, I loved hearing all that stuff. So, definitely brought up. mind driven overall. And yeah, probably when I've seen it five or six times, maybe I'll be matching that level of, uh, love for it too. But there is a lot of great stuff here. Some things I didn't love, but, uh, overall still really solid. So yeah, big old juicy eight out of 10.

1:31:28 Juicy eight. Mr. Patzer.

1:31:30 Hell yeah.

1:31:32 I'm going to heat us right back up to, uh, just an even 10 out of 10 for this one. Not, not quite up to the Mount Olympus level that Travis is at, but, uh, No, I think it's fantastic. I think this also like subconsciously just planted some seeds of like my love for the slow burn of horror films. Cause like when I'm watching this, I'm like, this is my favorite type of just, just horror and enjoyment of just, there's no, no real jump scares. Like there's some quick cuts, but like, it's not like it's just, they're leaning on that.

1:32:04 And it's just the slow burn of just getting crazy. It's just, there's something to that, that I'll always appreciate it. And I think it, a lot of it goes back to, to this original, uh, one that I'd seen.

1:32:16 So I can't wait till we can make like a two and a half hour slow burner. You know, we tried our best to the second one, but that's not a, that's not two and a half hours. So a.

1:32:25 Lot of long monologuing, I'm sure to get to.

1:32:27 Those, uh, there is, uh, I'm.

1:32:31 Going to join you up there, Travis. I'll give it the a hundred out of 10. I'll sit up there with you on that couch.

1:32:36 Cause it's just, it's a good movie.

1:32:39 It's a really, really good movie. I, like I said, watch it every year. I already want to watch it again this year.

1:32:44 I want to watch Dr.

1:32:45 Sleep.

1:32:45 I want to just get into it. It's got so many things that are really, really great.

1:32:50 I'm not going to make my kid watch it when I watched it as young as I was. I'm going to watch it when they're a little bit older and can just kind of ease into it.

1:32:59 Just like Danny was.

1:33:01 Just like Danny, yeah.

1:33:02 You can show her the Danny version.

1:33:04 Yeah, find that online. Find where there's a Danny version. Show her that. Good movie, right? Like, how did that even end for him? You know, like, I just, I would love to see that cut of, like, what was the ending of that movie? Just him and his dad running around.

1:33:15 Yeah, it's like, this movie kind of sucks.

1:33:16 Like, this is what happens. Like, you can't show Jack with the axe. He has the axe the entire time in the maze. So, who knows? But there you go, ladies and gentlemen. That is your Halloween retrospective for 2025. We'll be back next October for some more spooks and scares. And who knows what we'll be talking about then. But I promise you, it'll not be boring.

1:33:34 Bye-bye.

1:33:35 Bye.