The Arena Debate if Ja Should Start for Portland, JB's 76ers Role & Darryn Peterson Is Heating Up Part 2

0:01 I got Jock Vaughn like that too.

0:06 John Stockton, legendary jazz player.

0:09 Let's talk about another player who has the potential to be a jazz legend. Number two overall pick, Darren Peterson. Left much to be desired in his first preseason game Monday, finishing with just three points on one of five shooting and six rebounds in 19 minutes of action against the Nuggets. After that game, Jazz head coach Will Hardy said he wasn't himself in the first game. That wasn't the Darren we've seen in camp. Sometimes when you're trying to be perfect on every play and you don't want to screw up, you play a little bit frozen. Jazz were back at the crib on Tuesday night for a rematch against the Nuggets.

0:38 Peterson thawed out and balled out. Let's take a look at the highlights if we can.

0:43 Please.

0:43 A little smoky up in there like the arena here, but he scored 12 points in the first half. Found his rhythm, got it early. Earned a game with a dunk. Then put up 11 points in the third quarter. Finished the game with 23 points, three rebounds, three assists, and 30 minutes of action.

1:05 Moving the ball.

1:05 He was 10 for 18 from the field. Still struggling from beyond the arc. One for six from distance. Still trying to figure out his long-range game, but... That was some good things, dude.

1:17 I know you were a big Darren Peterson fan.

1:19 And a recent fan of the Utah Jazz, one of your favorite league pass teams for this season.

1:24 That's what they don't do no more. That cut. The back cut, yeah. Slot cuts. But, Doc, he is dogging their main guys.

1:33 Boom.

1:36 He's dogging Murray, Braun, whoever it is.

1:42 He is dogging their main guys. Watch him now. Uh-oh. Catch and shoot. Fading. Money. Akron, Ohio, baby. This was the three he did?

1:54 He's from Akron? Yeah.

1:55 He nice. Yeah.

1:56 You know, a lot of his skill set, and this is what I heard too, that it was CJ that worked with him early on.

2:04 CJ's from Akron. That worked with Darren Peterson. Mm. So he has a very mature game. I had him on this year. They played Baylor.

2:12 I had a chance to watch him up close and watch him play. And I thought coming into the draft, AJ probably had the highest ceiling.

2:19 Mm-hmm.

2:20 Boozer probably was the most sound fundamentally. But as far as a mature game, Caleb Wilson is just a beast, an animal. But mature-wise, NBA-type game, getting to your spot, making it look easy was Peterson.

2:34 I mean, he was, Gil, he was getting.

2:36 To his spots, like catch, one-two dribble, bop, one-two dribble, get by you on the break, sizing it up. It was a different level how he saw the game and played it compared to other college guys. That's why I think In Utah, once he understands the speed, and Josiah, you talked about him not finding the shot yet with his legs up underneath him. He getting bumped around. He getting pushed. He getting sped up. Once the game slows down for him from the deep-range shooting and you add all that other stuff that he has, the mental part of it, I mean, it's going to be hard to take away all of the skill set that he had.

3:14 Yeah, I look for the structure. I look for the bones of the game, right? Like, where is he trying to get his spots, right?

3:21 The pace.

3:23 He's just so skilled, right?

3:25 When you're talking about the guys who are great at mid-range, great at getting to the rim, like that three-level, four-, five-, six-level type of scoring, fade, middie, floater, dunk.

3:35 Like, he has it all. He has the whole package. And 6'6.

3:39 Yes.

3:40 Yeah. Getting your shot.

3:42 That takes time because you go from college line to this NBA line. That's, you know, those four feet, that's a different, you got to get used to that. Especially taking harder hits. So, once the season starts, he'll find those legs. If this is what your game looks like today, this mature, this steady, Jesus Christ.

4:04 I know, dude.

4:06 But we've seen it.

4:07 Like, you got to remember, college basketball.

4:11 did a horrible job this year with the narrative with him.

4:16 Oh, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it was.

4:18 You're saying that he should be, like, three, four, five, like, you wouldn't draft a number one because of he missed half the game.

4:29 He averaged 20... In half the game.

4:31 That's how great he was playing.

4:36 Half the game. He's going to get better up here.

4:40 It was just this weird thing that you were using against him without knowing any facts. But if this is what his stats look like half the game, second in scoring, whatever it was, that's just half.

4:52 That's a positive.

4:54 And it's just like when he gets to that next level and Getting under the NBA umbrella, especially depending on what team it is, getting the body right, understanding what type of body this is, he's going to be very dangerous.

5:09 And as you can see, the first game, obviously, that's just nerves.

5:14 I know they already told me, just go out there and play a game.

5:15 Don't worry about anything.

5:17 Boom.

5:18 Bounce back. It's always a bounce back. I want to see what your bounce back looks like.

5:20 But y'all, he's going to learn, too, like, The beauty about both of your games is change of pace, when to go, when to pull back, how to use your quickness, when to use it. Steph does the same thing. He's not the quickest. I mean, the fastest, but he knows how to get open and have that burst. Once he learns that on how to utilize that burst, when to come off that pick and roll, get to a spot real quick, slow down, and then boom.

5:44 That's what's going to separate him. But again, it takes a little.

5:46 Bit of time and a lot of reps, but from the foundation perspective, his foundation, his base.

5:53 Oh, it's all there.

5:54 Yeah, once he start hitting 60, once he start at 65 and go to 80, and 80 is his max, then that's his pace. But, like, what I love about him is, like, you got all these skills. You can do all this shit, but you got a cold mentality.

6:12 He got a cold mentality.

6:13 He got a cold mentality. He don't think that nobody's better than him. Nobody can guard him. When you watch him play, He plays like that. He plays like, man, I ain't even tripping on you, Gardner. I'm looking at what else is out there, what the second line of defense look like. And not only is he a great scorer, he can make plays.

6:37 He can make plays. Make plays at the rim. He athletic. He can play defense.

6:41 So you're looking at this young dude and you're saying, like, I looked at that. I was watching some of the highlights. And Utah is going to be scary. Because he's doing that to the main guys. So when Jamal, he was doing it to Jamal Murray. If Jamal Murray is on the floor, we all know Jamal Murray is an offensive juggernaut.

7:04 Now, you ain't getting no rest guarding this dude.

7:08 So he gonna put pressure on a lot of guards and he gonna go off on a lot of guards because he don't think none of them can guard him.

7:17 And he can defend.

7:18 And he can defend. And he can get to the money. So like, His offense is his best defense, but he can defend, too. So when he playing against the top guards in the West and fighting for spots, like, they got to worry about this kid going off on him.

7:34 Yeah, I talked to Elijah. So Elijah put me on. So it was Elijah's roommate. So I was like, oh, man, I thought you was going to be by yourself. Right now you got one of these little knuckleheads in here doing all that dumb shit.

7:46 He was like, no, I'm with Peterson. Who the fuck is that?

7:50 He was like, nah, he's a professional professional.

7:53 He was a professional professional, right?

7:57 Like, he's NBA mentally right now. Like, he ain't for no games. Like, he's sitting there telling me, hey, man, keep your room side, keep your side clean, right? Them people in the hallway, man, they ain't real.

8:09 Right. You don't need to talk to them. You don't need to deal with them, man.

8:13 They're going to fall off.

8:14 He said the lifestyle, like he was already super mental. This is, they're in the 10th grade. So he's in the 10th. So he was 11. Yeah, so Elijah was in the 10th. He said, USA basketball, everybody going out to eat.

8:31 He's like, nah, man, we're going to order food, bring it in. We're going to enjoy it. We're going to watch tape. We're going to rest our bodies. We got practice tomorrow. We got.

8:38 He said he was already... He didn't do none of that. He said, we're going to do a little mini-workout. He said, so he asked me, working out, mini-workouts, doing our calf raises, or what's the name, showing up.

8:48 Early to the bus. Like, he was no games from the beginning. Yeah, he trying to be the best. Yeah. Well, I think that mentality helped him going through all the stuff at Kansas. Yeah. With all the questions and all, you know, people talking about him not wanting to play, but needing to play. Was it his people? Was he really hurt? All those things that he... had to go through the maturity level, he was able to handle it.

9:10 Because a lot of young men at 18 years old going through that would not be able to handle all that. For sure.

9:15 He's all basketball. And still play.

9:18 Yeah, yeah.

9:18 He's all basketball. I hollered at him at the summer league.

9:21 It was like two days before summer league start. And I was talking to him and I just stopped.

9:25 I said.

9:26 Man, he ready to hoop right now. He was like, you're goddamn right. I can't wait.

9:32 I was like, ooh, I can't wait to see you play.

9:35 You know, you're talking to somebody, and it's like, man, this dude ready to hoop right now. He thinking about when is the game. So I can show y'all what I got cracking.

9:48 Like, that's why I like him.

9:50 Also, Chip on his shoulder. I'm sure he thought he should have been the number one pick. Despite what the media was saying. And like you said, JJ, all the narratives about him checking himself out of games.

10:01 They got Ace Bailey. They got George. Triple J.

10:07 Especially in the West. I don't think the West is as deep. Like the top half of the West. You got the first year with San Antonio, OKC. Then after that, You got Minnesota, Houston, and Denver. But then you start six through ten, you're like, okay, where's Phoenix, where's Portland, where's Dallas?

10:28 You don't know.

10:29 Utah has a really good chance, man, especially if they get off to a good start.

10:34 Lakers, being that top seven, top eight, you know, it's going to be interesting, bro. They got some dogs in you.

10:42 Just looking at Darren Peterson, like I said, struggling in his first game, 23, second game. Second night of a back-to-back, his first back-to-back, first home game in front of Jazz fans. But as a rookie, how much does the preseason get you ready and build confidence heading into the regular season? How much does a performance like that, seeing he can do it against former championship squad in the Nuggets?

11:02 I mean, shit, as a rookie, if you get a chance to play.

11:06 I was about to say the same thing.

11:07 Hey, dawg, it was hella janky. It was so janky, dawg. It was almost like, damn, this is how the season's going to be. You know, it's the preseason.

11:20 The Vets are like, man, you know, shit, rook, you know.

11:24 You're going to turn it up tonight. I ain't doing nothing. Man, I was playing like 15 minutes.

11:28 I was hot.

11:29 I was tight.

11:30 That shit don't do nothing for you, Joe. The preseason.

11:34 Playing 15.

11:35 What if you're playing 30 and putting up 20?

11:38 I ain't getting that. You ain't getting that.

11:40 Never play 30.

11:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:44 And took more than 10 shots my rookie year, I'm sure.

11:47 So the 15 minutes in the preseason are salty. Something going into it.

11:50 That's it.

11:50 That's it. I was like around.

11:53 So my experience is we played the Lakers 2001.

11:57 So it was the championship back in Maui. Maui. It is Maui. Yeah.

12:04 So you can see why I pick at this person. He embarrassed me. You know, you get in last two minutes, honestly. Right.

12:14 Come off the pick and roll, call the pick and roll. Yeah.

12:18 I didn't know nothing about Horace Show. I didn't know what the fuck that was. Robert Horry came out there with the Horace Show. I screamed, ow!

12:31 I tricked it off.

12:32 Oh, man, it was like, where did she even come from?

12:40 That shit is scary.

12:41 That shit is scary. Brian Graham used to do that. Remember Brian Graham?

12:49 Oh, man, he used to scare the shit out of me. Whenever you come up that pinky road, I'm up.

12:54 I can touch your ass.

12:55 I'm in a tunnel. You better get rid of me. I lost the ball.

13:00 He came down there laughing.

13:03 Scored a layup, man. Like, yeah, I'm good.

13:07 So that's where it all started. That's where it all started.

13:10 Robert, if you're watching this, yeah.

13:12 Hey, man, fuck Big Bob.

13:14 Shit.

13:14 He was like, oh, man. I came out there, pick a roll. He scared the shit out of me, man. And these y'all played in the preseason. People forget, I had the longest holdout ever. Oh, yeah. You need to get your brain to change. I only played 28 games my rookie year.

13:27 I got thrown into the lineup in late February when I finally signed because the Mavericks didn't want to pay me no money. No training camp, no nothing. I played against Hakeem, Olajuwon. How about that?

13:40 Hakeem, Olajuwon. That was your first game?

13:43 First game. After they won it. Second game was against Phoenix against Barkley. No training camp, no nothing.

13:49 Nothing. So I didn't have a rookie year.

13:51 I didn't know what it was like to go to training camp, to play in preseason.

13:56 That's crazy. To get your feet wet.

13:59 How does that happen?

14:00 Because they didn't want to pay me. I'm the fourth pick and they didn't want to pay me. Oh, no, so yeah, before you, before, they got.

14:07 To negotiate their own deals. It wasn't a scale. What it was was market. First, Shaq signed for this. Okay, so Zoe signed for right up under the house. Christian Leighton and so on. They wanted to pay me what the eighth pick got because their previous picks didn't pan out.

14:26 I said, so that's my fault? Yeah.

14:28 Because they didn't, I said, so now you don't want to pay me because... Those other picks. Because I made bad picks. You know what I'm saying? But I didn't have a rookie year. So I look back at it. When you ask that question, is it important? I think for some players it is. That need confidence. I think for Darren, not playing a lot last year, it's an important preseason for him to kind of really get in his bearings and his feet wet because he didn't go through a full college season. And some players, they don't really need the preseason. But you do need to develop, I think, for rookies, A routine. Yeah, a routine and a field. That allows you to understand in the league as a rookie, game day situation and preparation. In the preseason,

15:12 although maybe the big names may not play, the game is still being played, and you've got to prepare yourself the same way.

15:19 And I think that helps a lot of rookies. We've seen the big names out there. Yeah, where you at on the totem pole, too. Not even.

15:25 Once you get a routine, because then you realize like either– You ain't good enough, and you better get there hella early if you want to be on the court by yourself. Or if you a rookie at the bottom, you working out with eight, nine dudes.

15:38 But that's still false advertisement, right?

15:41 Because LeBron James and these guys, their routine.

15:47 Is not coming yet.

15:49 Right?

15:49 So, yeah, so you might have your time, like, okay, I got this.

15:53 And then Steph ain't playing.

15:54 He only playing five minutes, so he ain't going, really going through his thing. And then when the season starts. Oh, yeah, you got to get up off that floor.

16:01 And then they turn the lights on.

16:02 It's like, all right.

16:04 Thank you.

16:05 Get your ass off the floor. Get your ass off the table. All right, Vinny.

16:09 Eddie Jones did me like that, man. Get your ass off the table.

16:12 No.

16:12 What the fuck you doing out here for so long, man? Come sit down. Show you how to get a routine, man. He's like, watch me.

16:19 Eddie Jones, sit down. Sit down. Get off the court, dog. Did you sock him or did you just sit down? No, I set my ass down. I was a rookie, dog.

16:28 It's just a next step.

16:29 It's just a next step from college.

16:30 Yeah. That's what preseason is. It's just a next.

16:35 Step of talent, right?

16:37 But What you do to Steph today in these games, that's not the same when you're facing opening night.

16:46 But it is helpful. But it can help you.

16:47 If you're that type of.

16:48 Guy who needs confidence to see some type of weakness in someone, that'll boost you up.

16:54 Then, yeah, it'll help you.

16:55 But don't go out there thinking that's the guy you're playing against.

16:59 That's not the same.

17:00 It's good to get acclimated. But Darren Peterson, I think it was good because– He needs to start getting a feel and getting your legs and, you know, how you going to move off these bumps because the veteran guys ain't going to play you like these second, you know, guys in the rightful position. So you got to get more physical play or a harder defense in the preseason from a backup person or a third string player.

17:29 Trying to make it.

17:30 So then that should start getting your legs ready. So it could be. beneficial for rookies. It wasn't beneficial for me because I ain't playing that.

17:41 Man.

17:42 Dog.

17:43 And then I got a pass to the post. All day long back then. All day.

17:47 Pass spot up. Man, they like, you can't shoot. Bro, I'm getting three shots a game.

17:52 I missed all three. I used to love.

17:58 Playing against the guards when I can't see. I came in at the right time on the right tee. Yeah, you did.

18:04 That offense was guards.

18:06 Uh-huh.

18:08 Big man, we had to pass it to Eric Dampier.

18:10 Yeah.

18:11 We had to pass it to him.

18:12 It was like the first three plays there, then I'll see you at the end of the second half.

18:17 Other than that, it was guards. So when I get to come down one-on-one... There's nobody sitting there like, only when I came in with Mark Jackson.

18:26 Give him the ball.

18:29 He want to run that offense.

18:36 Bro, that's how we earned our money, dog. As a young dude, you got to learn how to run an offense. You watch your homies and be like, dang, dude, that's jacked up.

18:48 Like, he over there cooking. He over there playing.

18:53 I know BD was mad when we played. I don't got no place. He's like, carry it.

18:59 You can't do nothing. You can't do nothing.

19:02 This dude over here killing. You know what I mean?

19:05 Crowd going crowd. Like, damn, I got game.

19:07 I can do some.

19:08 Shit around here.

19:11 You can't do nothing. It's like, man, we got to call a play. But people like you. You, Eddie Jones, Nashburn, Mason, Derek Coleman, Elton Campbell, David Wesley. I'm like, damn, it was never a play designed for the point guard.

19:34 Never.

19:34 I used to love that shit. Even the pick and roll. It was like, hey, he going to do that.

19:38 Give it back. Give it back. Being there talking shit.

19:41 You can't do nothing to that.

19:42 Dude, I be in practice. Just be trying shit. They be like, uh-uh, you ain't going to play.

19:50 Play this shit, bro.

19:51 You ain't going to play this shit. Let's keep this thing moving. Before we do, appreciate everybody in the chat for rocking with us on this glorious Wednesday. Make sure if you've not done so already, hit that like button for us. Trying to make sure that like button still works. Go hit that like button. If you have not subscribed to Gil's Arena Show on YouTube, make sure you subscribe to the channel as well. Shout out to everybody watching on Twitch.

20:09 All right.

20:10 Let's shift it over. Wizards are one of the most intriguing teams in the league. Two all-NBA level stars in Trae Young and AD. Number one pick in A.J. DeBonsa. And a talented young core featuring a stockpile of former lottery picks. But Davis could be the difference maker on this squad. AD, one of the most dominant two-way players in the game, went healthy as evidenced by him being a 10-time All-Star, 8-time All-NBA, and 5-time All-Defensive selection. But only played 20 games last season as Washington. opted to sit him out after grabbing him at the trade deadline.

20:41 20 points per game, lowest since his rookie season. AD, $ 63 million player option next summer and has been eligible for a four-year, $ 275 million extension since August. Needless to say, he's got something to play for. Davis sat down with the numbers on the board crew recently, said he plans to be on demon time this season.

21:00 How much of a chip is on your shoulder going into this season? Oh, a lot. Multiple reasons. Main reason.

21:08 People forgot, man. I take that personally. I know what I can do, what I bring to the table. I think this is a great opportunity for me having Trey.

21:23 Young alongside point guard.

21:24 I feel like someone like him can obviously elevate my game, what he's able to do and bring to the table as well. Then defensively, all the guys that we got here, we can do something special. For me, personally, I'm on some shit this year.

21:37 For sure.

21:38 You on that time. It's that time right now. Hey, headline that. AD said, I'm on some shit this year.

21:43 That's the headline.

21:46 We actually, in fact, did headline that. AD did say, I'm on some shit this year. Good news for AD is that with the Wizards lineup that features fellow big man Alex Saar, spent a good portion of his time playing the four this season. We know how much he loves playing the four. He also, in that interview, talked about how he had to be up to around 270 when he was with the Lakers because they wanted him to play the five, which led to his comments about them bringing a four in and then They're not doing that and booting him for Luka. But bad news is, according to reports, there's almost no chance Wizards will give Davis a max extension as they want to keep cap flexibility for their future.

22:18 Look to build a team around A.J. DeBonsa.

22:20 So, let's start with you. Expectations for Anthony Davis this season.

22:27 Well, he said it there. Contract extension year, if you go back to 22, 2022, 2023, play 76 games.

22:37 Okay?

22:37 Reason why he was contracted since... Seriously! I mean, but it means a lot. He was able to extend his deal. So you notice that with a lot of players, too, that when it's time for your contract, you play majority, most of the games. And I think this year it's going to be one, but it's a different situation. This is year 14 for AD. He's not the standard bearer.

22:58 He's not the franchise player that he once was in the eyes that think of the Wizards. So, and you said it, this year there's $ 17 million over the cap, but they're like $ 30 million under the second apron. So they're not trying to get in the second apron. His extension is like a four-year $ 275 million extension. You know what I mean? For the future of the franchise, that's going to tie them down to Keyshawn George when his money is up. You know, Kulibale, his money coming up, Bob Carrington, things like that. And then AJ on the back end in his third year. So they can't tie up that cap space with With AD right now, hence is why the extension talks are kind of on hold.

23:39 Because they understand it's now, but where we are in the future. And it's, I think AD has a lot to prove, more so to himself. And I think last year was a nominee, too. Think about it. He only played 20-something games because Washington wasn't going to play him. Yeah. So that number is a little bit skewed. Of not playing last year. But I just think, guys, I think AD is in a tough situation. Because this is year 14.

24:05 His extension is up. He wants to get max. Does he take a short deal like Kevin Durant did two years, like 45? Keep the space available for Washington, but yet still have the integral part of the team. That's something I think AD and Rich Paul are going to have to look at because this could be his last shot at getting a big deal. But can he get it here?

24:28 And if not, will Washington use that to maybe trade him down later this season, so they wanted to pay him that extension.

24:37 I'm no cap expert, but I think he'll hit the over 38. I'm saying this might be the last time he can sign a deal of this length.

24:44 That's what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying.

24:46 Before he hits that over 38 rule, and then he's got to sign those shorter deals.

24:53 It's a weird spot for Washington because they're– They're young and old at the same time.

25:02 They're not even old. No. Trey is still young. Think about that court. Trey is still young. Relatively young. Even AD is 32.

25:09 Yeah, he's still young.

25:10 So when you're.

25:11 Sitting there looking at his age, like he's.

25:13 32, he's right there.

25:15 He's 33.

25:15 He turned 34 this season. He's turned 34 this season? Year 14.

25:18 But year 14, a lot of miles. Turned 33 in March. He'll turn 34 in March.

25:22 Okay, so it's miles, but it's not. Most of his injuries, these ticky-tack weird ones.

25:31 I know.

25:31 Shoulder.

25:32 Shoulder. Eye. Little finger.

25:40 Realistically, I got to look at how good our team is.

25:47 He's going to average with this team, with Trey Young, with A.J., He can fuck around and have 26, 27, 12, right? So I know he's going to be dominant. Defensively, he's going to be first team. At worst, second team. Like, we know what he's bringing. They're with other guys that's going to be locked down with them. What am I going to get back that's going to help me in the future?

26:18 Picks? If you trade him? If I trade him. Like, what am I giving back?

26:23 Because I'm giving, like, I'm really, like, LeBron James made him look bad in a sense of, like, oh, shit, you know, AD. Like, I'm going to talk shit about him. Not realizing he was putting in 25 and 12.

26:34 No, he was still in.

26:35 Right?

26:35 He still was first team defense.

26:37 Yeah. He gets a bad rap because he got treated for Luka.

26:41 We see what Luka's coming to do.

26:42 What you going to go do?

26:43 Right?

26:43 So we, like, he didn't really have no wiggle room in the media the last three years. No. Now, when you sit back, all the smoke is clear.

26:53 There is a 25-12, 27-12 guy.

26:55 And three blocks. And three blocks.

26:58 So, we do have.

27:02 Someone who is sitting here top ten in the league when he's healthy, when he's playing. This year, I got him, Trae Young, right? We have a team that can make the playoffs.

27:15 No doubt. We can make a serious run.

27:17 Serious run. Yeah.

27:19 How many, like.

27:20 Do I just say, hey, you know what?

27:25 I would give you the max. Can we defer some of this shit, though?

27:28 Are you still allowed to say that?

27:29 Can we get one of these federal buildings?

27:31 The number still kind of gets a cap. Because here's the thing.

27:34 No, not from here.

27:34 Like what they did with Debo and AK-47 where I'm saying, ah, you need a 270.

27:38 Check that. I'm going to defer 80. So you're saying that So like Atani did. So you're saying sign a max extension, 274. It's still going to.

28:05 Count against the cap. It pays after you retire. It doesn't matter.

28:09 No accounts for that cap.

28:21 No, yeah, it counts on the cap after. That number that you, that number's still on the books. Everybody would do that then. You sure?

28:26 Yeah, yeah.

28:27 It's still on the books. The Lakers could sign Luka for $ 500 million. They would have been circumventing the cap. Yeah, people would have been doing that. They were doing it, but it didn't benefit.

28:35 No, they were doing that because they were already under deals.

28:39 They already had their deal.

28:41 And so they were getting out of deals doing extensions.

28:44 And on the extension, they were getting paid out.

28:47 No, like, look at Z-Bo and Karolinko because they was part of, like, so, like, he's still getting, like, a million.

28:54 Z-Bo's still in there. Yeah, he'll get an environment for the next 20 years. Karolinko, he got, his was an injury, right? No. Karolinko, when he. That was a deferred payment.

29:02 It was a deferred payment. Like, a 20-year, it's like a, like, Z-Bo's, like, it's, like, I'm going to defer 20 million of it.

29:07 I'm going to give you the max.

29:08 20 of it for the last 20 years. I think some of it only counts towards cap relief. Yeah. I don't know if all of it does. We have to pull that up. You still get capped for that year. Because here's the thing you got to ask yourself. Are we going to, if we can, because that hasn't been talked about with regards to being able to sign AD back, clearing up some cap space and not being tied to it.

29:31 It's all been about at this point of AD's career and where Washington is going, they can't tie up the cap.

29:38 It's like we're cat in New York. Okay. right now.

29:41 Year 12, yes, you helped us, but we can't give you, we don't want to give you 274. If we give you 274 now, Josh Hart, no, Josh Hart, OG Ananoke, those numbers, somebody, somebody's going to have to get it.

29:57 You know what I mean? And that's the same kind of situation A.D. is in. Does he deserve it based on his history? You say yes.

30:07 But Washington, from an organization, said, man, we can't tie up 274. Just gave Trader 212. Like you mentioned, you got a lot of young.

30:16 I think Washington in the Midwest situation.

30:18 I saw that Zach Randolph deferred his from like 2012 to.

30:21 2017, so I don't know if that's it. 2012 to 2017.

30:23 So he signed a deal and, hold on one second, like, Like 2004.

30:27 Yeah.

30:27 But he was still getting paid in 2017. He deferred from like 2012 to 2017. Yeah, he's just.

30:32 A portion.

30:32 Yeah, so after he retired, he's still getting. But did that go in your books then?

30:38 Back then, yes. No, I don't know if it counted then or if it counted when it was actually.

30:41 Being used. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think when he. I don't think he's still doing that. When he signed it, you're saying that that part. that was deferred didn't count against the cap.

30:50 Yeah, that's what I was, I thought it was 20 million of that.

30:52 It was like 20, 25 million of that, but they deferred it between 2012 and 2017.

30:55 And I think that's when it went on the cap. Yeah, 2012 to 20.

30:58 You gotta see that.

31:01 It's some tricky shit.

31:03 But the reality is AD got a player option next year. If you don't move him by the deadline, you run the risk of losing it for nothing.

31:08 Yep.

31:08 If you're the wizard.

31:09 I think the wizard's in a win-win situation.

31:12 But AD motivated too, like you said. Yeah, you get a motivated AD. So if he's balling out, do you now say, I want to trade this? Okay. But see, that's the problem. What's that?

31:21 You don't always need to get something for something.

31:25 Like, I don't know why.

31:26 They always feel that I'm going to lose him and get nothing back. You get cap back. You get cap space. I don't trade this person for this. I don't know what I'm getting back.

31:37 Right?

31:37 So if I free up $ 60 million, I have $ 60 million to play with versus trading you, getting back these pieces and whatever. But you'll trade exceptions.

31:47 You may get draft picks.

31:49 You may get a short-term deal on a guy that Again, he'll clear up cap space anyway.

31:56 That's what you want.

31:56 You want short-term contracts coming back in. Because eventually you have to pay Keyshawn George. Two years from now, in his third year, AJ, you're going to max extend him his rookie deal. So they got questions on– that's why I say from an organization, you can't look at it today. And they're super– I mean, most of their talent is young.

32:17 Yeah.

32:18 But they're in a win-win situation. Like, if I'm Washington, I'm sitting there like, hey, man, AD is motivated. I got one of the most slept on, dominant, big, big men in the league. I'm partnering him with Trey Young. I like what I see. Let's put that out there. If this shit gets a rolling, we'll know what we got.

32:38 If it's not, then we know.

32:41 But you said all this under the auspice that you... Sign the extension or are you still talking about the extension?

32:47 No, we're going to sit. We're going to sit. Okay, you're going to sit. We're going to have to sit.

32:50 We're going to have to play this year out because there has to be some trust. You're going to play your 76 games?

32:56 Okay, cool.

32:56 I'm going to hold it in on my end and say, all right, after I see what this season is, we can get into this extension later. Washington has time on their hands.

33:08 I think they have leverage, too. He can opt out after this season? Yeah.

33:12 But I don't think AD, I don't know Rich Paul, and I'm thinking, look, he got $ 62. 3 million on his option, right?

33:19 Who paying him that? If he opts out. If he opts out. You see what I'm saying?

33:26 So it's a chance you take if you're Washington understanding that the market may not be there Oh, no. That and if you're good enough. Right.

33:36 And he has a great year.

33:38 Then it's like, oh, shit, we closer to like the dynamic that we need. And now you can talk about, OK, we're going to extend you. You know, we're going to create this. We're not going to we're not going to go out.

33:49 If he opt out now, he can sign a four year deal instead of a three. That's a different.

33:53 Yeah. His extension this year is going to be three years. Okay, because he'd have a total of four years. But if he opts out, now he's eligible for four years. You see what I'm saying? He's in a good situation, too. Wait, hold on. If he signs the deal, if he signs an extension, what does the number start with?

34:11 So not the $ 60, 000, the one that comes after. Oh, it'll be 10%? It starts with next year. It starts with next year, $ 62, 300. After that, it's like $ 80, 000, $ 70, 000. It gets up to $ 80, 000.

34:17 Okay, now if he opts out, when he opts out and he signs a four-year deal, what does that number start with?

34:21 The last year of his deal. Still, $ 62, 300. It'll start at the same... If it was a match.

34:39 I think he opt-out signed up to four for $ 275. I don't know what the opt-in and three-year deal would be. Because you know how sometimes if you opt-out, the number starts to lower, but it gets bigger.

34:49 So if you take four and the $ 275, what's that? It's around $ 70 a year, but I know you're saying, yo.

34:56 This started like the 60s. Yeah, yeah. It worked its way up to like $ 75.

34:59 It went under $ 70 a year because seven times four is $ 20 a year. You would actually get a four-year, seven-year deal. So what year are they afraid of?

35:08 All of those years. All of those years. I would say.

35:10 Next year, you're not so afraid. But next year, you go over the cap.

35:16 Okay, because I was going to say 27, 28.

35:18 You go over the cap. So you're going over the cap. Then you stand over the cap. And these dudes is coming up.

35:25 I think 28, 29 season would be when everybody else's extensions may start hitting.

35:28 So then, I was saying, if you sign an extension, you front load this shit out. You know that empty year sometimes you have?

35:36 Front load the shit out of it.

35:37 Right, where instead of paying them like 65, pay them 90.

35:41 If you could, with that second apron.

35:43 Yeah, so they're 30 million under the second apron right now.

35:48 Yeah, they'll be over.

35:48 As soon as they sign them, they're over. They're over the second apron. They're 30 million under it right now. They just want to keep that capital. But it's a good thing. I mean, for them, they're in a situation where they're talented enough where they weren't before.

36:02 You've been there. Yeah. That they got to make these decisions. Mm-hmm. Before, they didn't have to make these decisions. They didn't have to make these decisions.

36:09 They're in a really good situation because they got assets, young assets, a future, but now they got to deal with understanding.

36:18 And bona fide superstars. You got bona fide Trae Young, Anthony Davis. You got two bona fide superstars. And the number one pick. And he's going to be a superstar. Washington, you kind of want to play. You want to make smart. You want to make AD feel like he's at home. He's going to fight this year. He's going to ball out this year. He's going to play a lot of games for us. We want to make sure that he feel like this is the place that he want to be also.

36:52 True.

36:52 Right?

36:53 And over the next four years, he's the staple figure.

36:58 But at what number is he and Rich going to be comfortable with? If it's not the 275. The problem is everybody's taking discounts.

37:06 If you winning. Not everybody.

37:09 If you winning, right?

37:10 If you wind up winning and he's happy and he's in a great role, who says that he wouldn't take a discount to keep?

37:19 You have a better negotiation. I get it. You know, if not, let him walk.

37:23 Everybody got their own. Everybody has their own. They have their own number.

37:28 Appetite. Yeah, everybody got their own.

37:31 Every time we feel good, we got to take a discount. When we all win a championship and we all joyful drinking the champagne. You know, hey, you know, the two cent, you ain't going to get 220.

37:44 You feeling good, right? How come you ain't feeling good? Why are you always still thinking business?

37:50 And I've got to get in my feelings. Right? It's, it's, it's, they're not going.

37:56 Give me Maryland.

37:57 They're not going. All of it. I told you. Give me two parts of Virginia and a field.

38:01 Give me that waterfront.

38:03 Give me that waterfront.

38:05 That's what I'm talking about.

38:11 I thought you gave me a Federal Reserve. Let's stop playing.

38:16 Hey, I go to Ted. Hey, D. Hey, Ted, come on, man. I know who you is. Ticketmasters, right? I like ticketmasters.

38:24 Give me a little piece of ticketmasters. You know what? Throw $ 74.

38:28 Million into ticketmasters. Ticketmasters. Like, I'm just listening, listening.

38:35 They did it then.

38:37 Business people are doing it now. I'm trying to be a businessman. You have to talk to them. You have to talk to them just like that. Pablo's going to be on you.

38:48 You got to talk to him myself, though. Pablo's going to be on you. Pablo's going to be on Gil. For $ 700, 000.

38:53 Listen, all I'm saying is. He paid $ 700, 000.

38:55 $ 700, 000. I ain't mad at that. Listen, how about this? Right now, right now, I can write.

38:58 A check, right? You owe me $ 274, 000? We talking $ 274, 000?

39:10 I can write a check right now in my bank account to a business that you and your friends are trying to open.

39:20 I think we've seen the ramifications. No, no, no, no, no, no.

39:23 That's them giving me money.

39:24 That's them giving me money. I'm giving money now for an investment. Oh, you're going to get an 80 back?

39:29 Yeah.

39:30 I'm going to get an 80 back.

39:31 I'm the ticket master today.

39:34 You give it back.

39:35 And get a dip there for the next 20 years. Hey, the NBA ain't listening to this. The gear ain't never going to be on. In the ownership conversation When I was negotiating my dealer when I was negotiating I got other superstars deals and.

40:07 I've seen the word in some of this shit. And I'm sitting here like, you can do this? There was players that was getting paid August. Like this upcoming season, August 1st, all their money.

40:24 Yeah, you didn't get it up front.

40:25 I'm like, wait, wait, why can you get your money here?

40:29 It was like Tim Duncan.

40:30 So in my contract, I got October 1st. I got 11.5 of my money October 1st.

40:38 Big up front. Yeah, so I can invest.

40:40 And then the rest of it, 12 months.

40:44 Okay. Right, so I did it like that.

40:46 Then I found like little loopholes in deals, like felony charges, shit like that. Right, it was love of the clause, lockout, getting paid during the lockout.

40:54 Right, so I had all, I just took from everybody's deal, put it into one.

40:59 Right? And you'll be surprised some of the shit you find. Yeah, for sure. Even the love for the game.

41:04 Yeah, I had that in mind.

41:05 I had that in mind. A lot of people didn't have that. Well, that allows you to go play and hoop and do whatever you want.

41:11 You can hoop whatever. You can play wherever. You can supersede all that stuff about summer leagues if it's sanctioned. That's why we was playing in the record.

41:18 We was in the record hooping because of that.

41:23 All right.

41:24 Let's hear one more thing quickly before we get to Mousy Fancy. Uh, so tanking been commonplace in the league for a long time. Uh, the NBA looking to combat it with anti-taking draft lottery reform, seeking to punish the league's worst teams. Uh, but one of the most loaded drafts in recent memory this past June, trash teams gave it one last go for a chance to land what could be a franchise alternate player. So third year wizard and former lottery pick, Bob Carrington, uh, made this pretty clear recently and will prove to be an awkward moment.

41:52 We're nice.

41:53 We're talented.

41:53 We're gifted individuals. Very talented.

41:56 Um, We just haven't been told yet to go be the best version of yourself.

42:01 What do you mean you haven't been told that?

42:05 Well, like, we've all, in a way, been held back just because, like you said, we were trying to get AJ to banter.

42:12 That's no secret.

42:13 That's no secret. So, like, but.

42:17 Now no one has handcuffs. Everyone's shackles free. So that alone is already... A conversation started. But then you put that on top of the coaching, on top of the vets that we had. That's a playoff team. And that's going to happen. That's going to happen if not now, now or not now. And then when it does happen, it'll happen for a long time. Whenever we get there, whether that's this year, next year, or the year after, we're going to stay there.

42:45 And that's the culture we're trying to change. Well, for you, your teammates, the whole city, I hope it happens this year, man. Appreciate that. Thank you. Appreciate you.

42:52 He didn't know how to say right there his heart was in the right place I did.

42:56 Not to discipline him with the.

43:00 Wizards I.

43:21 For his comments about tanking, they have been very judicious lately. But what are your thoughts on Bub Carrington saying the quiet part out loud when it comes to the Wizards tanking for A.J.

43:30 DeBonsa? You know, it ain't about the tanking part.

43:33 Like, we all know teams was tanking for him, just like they was tanking for Wimby. What I got from it is I can see where it's coming from to the point where If you are on the business side and you're trying to get a number one pick and you're trying to get... I mean, this fucking draft was loaded. So the first three or four picks is game-changing for us.

43:58 So a lot of teams are going to tank.

44:00 For him, for a guy who's that talented or talented and you.

44:04 Out here playing....

44:07 I got to pull you back. You out here trying to get to the yams too fast. Like, I don't need you out here winning, trying to win games, and you sitting here going for 35, trying to be rookie of the month every goddamn month.

44:17 So it's like, oh, shit, he got 22 real quick. There you go.

44:20 Go sit your little ass down.

44:22 Right?

44:22 So it becomes this thing where you start sensing every time you get loose.

44:29 Every time you get loose, you get a yay.

44:31 Come on, man.

44:33 So you start feeling that, and you start understanding what the real program is.

44:37 Right?

44:37 Now it's to the point where, all right, now we can go out there and play winning basketball again.

44:42 But how do you shift that? Gil, how do you shift the mentality?

44:47 Here's the thing. Young player organizations talk about it's all about winning. We want to win. We want to win. We're going to do what it takes. We're going to do what it takes to win. But this year, because, you know, our future is important, we got to peel it back. How would you handle that? As a young player, think about it. There's been multiple seasons over there.

45:10 That's what I'm saying. I mean, OKC had it for a minute now.

45:13 That's not a good attrition with regards to how they built it.

45:16 They built it based on that process. Yes.

45:20 Everyone's done. And I understand what you're saying. And that's been my fight with legacies and why tearing somebody's legacy down because.

45:31 They didn't win.

45:33 But you don't know what they've been through in this organization. So when you say, hey, we're trying to tank, and you only know winning, they only know business, what ends up happening when you're trying to go out there and give it your all?

45:48 How can you give it your all? You can't.

45:51 You can't because if you're actually going out there, unless they really fuck the team up where you possibly can't win, you.

46:00 Become the bad guy. Now they're going to sit you.

46:03 Now they're going to do anything. Like, it becomes this thing. And then there's this resentment. Like, I thought we was in here to win. I thought this was about winning. But it's actually about winning. You're trying to stack years on top of years on top of years. So they have a business that says, yeah, we need to tank for the next three years. And you got drafted on year one.

46:22 You already start your legacy off as a fucking loser. Loser.

46:27 And you can't develop the way you, it's like starting, like basically what he was saying was like, yo, they've been starting our growth. And every time we get ready to get active and show what we can do, they tell us, uh-uh, it ain't tracking.

46:41 Go back over there.

46:42 We ain't ready for you wolves yet. Now he's saying, you know, we ready now. And now they can't hold us back. But now it gets into how do you, to your point, how do you change the culture Now, because you have been losing, losing. Who changes the culture? Like, is it the GM? Is it the coach? Was it the same coach? I don't know if it's the same coach from last year. But, like, how does that coach now get those three-year players to buy in? Buy back in and win it. And now they're like, wait, hold on.

47:17 Y'all got superstar dudes here. And y'all been holding this back. So, like, it's going to be some. But think about it.

47:23 You're a coach, too. That goes on your record as a resume as a coach.

47:27 Yeah.

47:27 Think about it. If you go two to three years where you're quote-unquote tanking. You better tell me. Those numbers go on your overall record. I need it.

47:36 And then when people talk about it, they ain't looking at you as tanking. Your overall record is the negative part.

47:41 You see what I'm saying? It's like that part of it too.

47:45 But in an organization, I think the challenging part is as a player, you want to win and the organization is saying we're doing everything it takes to win, but then you're not. That's a hard thing to kind of grasp and internalize. Because then when you say you're full gone and you're playing and you're winning and something happens where you're not playing as well as something, now they trade you and things happen. You're just like, man, for two or three years I sat here and wanted to play and I couldn't and now things happen this way and I don't know. The message can get convoluted is what I'm saying. You know, when you look at it that way. I think that's what Bob was saying.

48:30 Yeah, and it does because.

48:35 If you're an individual and you're individually enhancing your talent, at what cost are you going against what they're trying to do?

48:48 Right? So let's say you are a yokage.

48:52 Or a Wimby, right? And you're still trying to tank, but you have this Wimby on your team.

48:59 Think of the things you have to do to stop him from dominating the game, right? So it becomes you're going against your.

49:09 Star player in a sense. You know what I mean?

49:11 But we all know that there is a process to tanking. It's always worked. San Antonio is the way San Antonio is because they.

49:18 Tanked three, four years in a row.

49:20 Houston is the way Houston is because they tanked three, four years in a row. So it is a perfect thing to do. Now we're missing the problem. The guys who.

49:31 Are starting.

49:33 Those number one, two picks that started the tank. What happens to their legacy and career and how we look at them?

49:43 The LaMelo Balls, those.

49:45 Guys that started from the beginning where you got to tank two or three. Cooper Flagg, how many years are you tanking to keep getting these to build a team?

49:54 Right.

49:55 And their legacy is just getting washed into the wind.

49:57 Well, you should hope.

49:59 Because of the new rules, it's not going to happen now because you're not going to be able to benefit from the draft.

50:05 That way. That way, yeah. But you're 23, though.

50:07 But at the same time, like, 23 off the loophole.

50:11 Every two out of three years will be trash. I know how to figure it out. Here's another scenario.

50:16 You are not sitting in the summer, knowing that you play for the Washington Wizards the last three years, you're not sitting in the summer looking into the.

50:28 Season, and say we have a winning team. You'd be like, shit, I'm going to go get my shit off.

50:34 You know what I mean?

50:35 Like, you know they're not trying to win.

50:37 Like, everybody looks at their roster and be like, damn, dude, like, are we a playoff team?

50:46 Are we competitive?

50:48 And then you start looking at what are my individual goals based on that shit. And so you got these young guys, like, their growth is getting studied because they know, like, Not only are we not going to win, we can't be successful in losing.

51:05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

51:08 How do you stop a player from developing a selfish nature when they're going to lose?

51:12 Yeah, exactly.

51:13 Because you're telling them you've got to be unselfish and play team basketball, but yet … But you've got to lose. How does this young player … internalize that and still go out there and play the right way. There's no right way. Because you have a situation like Cam Thomas.

51:32 That's exactly the person that has been winning.

51:36 His whole life. Has the skill to dominate.

51:41 He hears these plans.

51:42 He sees the scouting report.

51:44 Oh, you some losing motherfuckers. He looking at the players on his team. So I don't need to pass the fucking ball. So I'm going to just go out here, get my numbers. I'm going to just go out here, average my 24. I don't need to pass you the ball because y'all don't want it anyway because we want to lose. So we still going to lose, but it's going to.

51:59 Be a one on five. And then when you look up. You're looking at me.

52:04 Like, oh, I'm the selfish one out here.

52:08 And you don't like my attitude because I'm not going to conform to this bullshit.

52:12 I'm not talking to a whole bunch of losers. You have the attitude because you don't want to associate with none of them.

52:19 Now, they're talking like he's a bad locker room guy, and now you're out of the league.

52:23 Now you're out of the league.

52:24 You're out of the league because you didn't want to conform to losing.

52:26 Yeah. And you didn't want to accept it, and you're like, fuck it, if we're going to lose, I'm going to just fall here. Or not playing your best. Yes. Or being held back.

52:34 Cam Thomas is like, you ain't holding me back, dog. This is what I do. Like, I come to the game to hoop. Put on a show. I don't give a fuck what the score is. There's no holding back Cam Thomas. But as a result of that, you look at him and he can help so many teams in the league, but why can't he help teams in the league?

52:53 Because he's killing for sorry.

52:55 Teams that are not going to win.

52:58 So it's irrelevant.

53:01 It's even irrelevant to your development because now what the fuck are you developing for? You're developing... a selfish game because you do want to win and you do want to work on your game. You do want to get better, but now you are at a level where your game, it has, somebody has to be like, yo, we need someone like this because that window starts getting smaller and smaller.

53:28 But for him, he's been doing it. You do it for so long. I do it for, I've done, did it for three years.

53:32 Yeah. And then you put me.

53:34 On a team.

53:35 Now you put me in a team that's supposed to be good. Yeah, I remember we're basketball players.

53:39 We can look around and be like, Yeah, they ain't good. Right?

53:43 Yeah.

53:43 You still believe they good. I'm like, ah, nah, this ain't it. So I'm still going to be the same. So when I come out here and I get me in the game and I'm taking the first five shots, you're like, oh, nah, this ain't it over here.

53:53 That's not the type of game we play.

53:54 Yeah. Oh, y'all don't play sorry basketball?

53:57 Losing basketball?

53:58 Because that's what this is, right?

53:59 This is losing basketball.

54:01 And that's why Giannis had the problem with you. You're playing losing basketball. So I'm just going to get my numbers so I can.

54:08 You don't know nothing else. Yeah, you don't know nothing else. And, like, you're not playing to win. So you cannot learn how to play basketball if you're not fucking playing.

54:17 To win, dude.

54:18 Like, can you imagine? Like, you're not learning shit. So where you go? We wanted you to keep going. You was on the roll. Yeah, it's like, what the fuck do you learn if you cannot learn how to win? Playing the game is about winning. Making stats is to hopefully be at the end of the game to get the interview because you have the best stats on the winning team. Now you take somebody like a Cam Thomas or like we say in one of these high picks, you're teaching them not to win. They're not getting better.

54:55 They're developing a selfish type of game that's starting to minimize who they could be or who they can be. So now they go to a new team. You got to fucking... unravel all of the bullshit.

55:09 Yeah, you do.

55:09 You know, just to get that, just to say like, man, this is a good kid.

55:13 He loves the game. He works really hard.

55:16 He's just been taught wrong for the last three years, which no other team has patience for that shit.

55:24 You got it, young. Enough with the loser talk. Let's shift it over. Talk about some winners. Time to try and finesse some bread on Polymarket. This is Put That On Something. So we're going to give you a trade on the Polymarket app. You got to pick a side and put that on something. So big things expected from the Sixers this season. Philly hasn't advanced past the second round since 2001. But this ain't 2001.

55:46 Wait, what? They haven't advanced past the second round since 2001. Second round. Who haven't? Philly.

55:51 Philly.

55:51 Damn. That's been the big knock.

55:53 That was AR.

55:53 That's AR. They haven't gotten past the second round. Second round. That's been the big thing with Philly and Embiid. Haven't got past the second round, Gil.

56:03 Since 2001?

56:03 Since the URL or 2001?

56:05 2001. got swept by the eventual champion Knicks last season. But as it stands, this New League Sixers squad is the favorite to win the East. Let's take a look, if we can. 25% of traders picking them to reach the finals, win the Eastern Conference, make their first finals appearance since 2001. Knicks have second-best odds at 19% with the Celtics, Heat, and Cavs rounding out the top five.

56:28 Thanks, baby. But let's take it to the count. Now, you see that fourth, so people that are not, I'm tripping.

56:32 Miami.

56:33 Miami.

56:34 Will the Sixers win the East this season, BD? You say.

56:37 No, Knicks. Will they win or have the best record? Will they win the East? Not the East. Will they be the East? Knicks, baby. Knicks, Tate.

56:45 We stay loyal to the soil.

56:47 Don't leave the house without my blessing on you.

56:50 Knicks, Tate.

56:53 I feel like you're pandering to the Knicks crowd, but I respect it. First championship in three years. They whooping ass, you got to, I'll just be honest.

56:58 The Knicks, you got to go through the champs.

57:00 Yeah, you got to go through the champs. Yeah, you got to roll through the champs. Okay, eight straight seasons with a different NBA champion. No team that's made the finals in the previous season has gone back, I believe, unless I'm mistaken. But Gil, streak's got to end at some point.

57:14 I know, I know, because I'm thinking about the one streak that's been going on for the last five years, and that's whoever lost Eastern Conference... Because the Eastern Conference Finals, they go to the chips, so that would be Cavs.

57:29 That loss in the Eastern Conference Finals. Yeah, and then it winds up five in a row.

57:32 It definitely ain't going to be Cavs.

57:35 History says Cavs, but there is Philly, so I'm going to say Philly.

57:38 So you say Philly? I'm going to say Philly. I think the Knicks go back. They got money problems. They got the cat problem. If cat is right, if cat mind is right. But the mind ain't right. And the Mitchell problem because as good as– Yeah, Mitchell Robinson was very good. Mitchell Robinson was critical. He was critical.

58:05 Yeah.

58:05 Bro, it is, it's.

58:07 You lose, you lose. That's about Knicks fans. They allow you to jump on their wagon.

58:12 Right?

58:12 I love what they did.

58:13 I love what they did. I jump on every, every, every. I'm sorry.

58:18 Yeah.

58:18 I don't got to waste 82 games. I just wasted the playoffs. You're like, word, yeah. Put the little butters on. They all good.

58:25 What do you think? I'm staying with the Knicks. Thank you.

58:28 I'm staying with the Knicks. I know what history says. I think they'll resolve this cat issue. Yep. and from a cohesive perspective. They got Drummond. I think it's a lot of questions still with Philly. Now, would I be surprised if they win it?

58:43 Not at all. Not at all. I would not be surprised. But if I had to put my money down, I would not be surprised. But I like Miami, too.

58:51 Some 60 percenters here on the couch do not see the vision quite yet, but they will see the way soon enough. That was Put That on Something presented by Polymarket. Download the Polymarket app and use code ARENA to get $ 25 in bonus funds where you deposit just 10 bucks, make your next move your best move, and join the revolution. Polymarket, no limits, no house, instant cash out. Some most accurate sports odds and forecasts in the world. Now time for my favorite part of the show. Mostly fans. This is it, ladies and gentlemen. This is clutch time and crunch time.

59:23 Shout out to everybody in the chat that has dropped your questions in. To our super chat, put something on the offering plate. If you want your question asked on the show, we know y'all living good right now. It ain't the holiday season just quite yet. All right, let's get to it. Let me put the reading glasses on.

59:37 Oh, man. I'm fighting that, bro. Gil has impaired my vision. Me?

59:43 All right, let's see what the fans have to say.

59:48 Hold on.

59:50 Oh, here we go.

59:50 All right, we got one. I'm reading these handles. These are their names. It's not anything I have to do. That's my contractual obligation. Kevin Durkant1, how do you think KD career would have ended if instead of joining the Wizards or Warriors, he signed with his hometown Wallbill Wizards? So instead of joining the Warriors, he signed with the hometown Wallbill Wizards.

1:00:15 And the same thing happened. So he still do the same shit, average choice every year.

1:00:21 Okay.

1:00:26 I don't think they would have won a championship, but he would go down probably as one of the greats that just didn't win a championship.

1:00:34 So he'd be right under, you know, the guys. Yeah, that'd be John Wall and Bradley Bill prime, right?

1:00:40 Yeah.

1:00:41 I mean, he'd probably get to the finals. Oh, and that's the LeBron. Still. Oh, yeah.

1:00:46 No, no. With John Wall and Bill with him?

1:00:49 Oh, no.

1:00:51 They're giving him a run for his money. They would have conference finals at least. I think one of them with KD.

1:00:57 Yeah. I don't know about a chip. A chip.

1:01:00 But I think the question still goes back to KD not leading the team to a final and winning with the team that's his.

1:01:08 Winning. With a team that's his. Okay.

1:01:11 Because they say it, even though he got two-time MVP and got the championship, they didn't say it was his team.

1:01:17 Yeah, but, okay. I'm just saying.

1:01:19 No, no, no, I get that. There's his team shit, right?

1:01:22 I get the wording. Uh-huh.

1:01:24 Now, let's say Michael Jordan had left. And he went, we can.

1:01:30 Just pick a team, right? Whose team is that? Whose team is that? With Mike going to a team. If Michael went to any team, whose team is that?

1:01:40 Mike's. Mike's.

1:01:42 It didn't matter what name. It didn't matter the Bulls on it. The player is the team. So wherever Mike went, it was going to be his team, period.

1:01:50 Like LeBron.

1:01:50 Yeah. No matter where LeBron.

1:01:52 Mike went to the Lakers with Magic on the team.

1:01:55 In 91.

1:01:55 Who's team is it? It's Michael and Mike. It's Michael and Mike.

1:02:00 It's Michael and Mike. Hey, listen.

1:02:03 Hey, listen. They won it in Miami, right?

1:02:05 Yeah.

1:02:06 LeBron went there. What team was it?

1:02:08 LeBron.

1:02:09 It had to be LeBron. You know what I'm saying? It had to be LeBron. We make the excuse. We make the excuse when we want.

1:02:16 Okay, but would the narrative change on KD if he went to Washington instead? I'm saying would the narrative change? More so the question. It all depends.

1:02:27 Who went back home, girl?

1:02:28 It all depends on who's saying the narrative.

1:02:31 Who's balling?

1:02:32 Whoever's saying the narrative is like, when he went there.

1:02:39 You got to remember, who.

1:02:40 Says I don't like this first is what everyone says.

1:02:43 Because then you look at it.

1:02:45 Oh, man, you look like, remember, it's not like we came up with the narrative like, oh, he went to the losers. It was said, then we thought about it, and it's like, you know what?

1:02:54 I don't like this shit.

1:02:56 It is too easy. Then he beats LeBron.

1:02:59 Then he's like, you know what? We like it. We do like it. You beat LeBron. He's not close to the GOAT shit. You beat him two times in a row. He's not close to the GOAT. Now he got two championships, and you got two finals MVPs.

1:03:12 Now it's like, wait, hold on.

1:03:14 We don't like this shit either.

1:03:16 It's KD similar to Isaiah Thomas in that situation. Because him going to Golden State, You beat LeBron twice.

1:03:23 You beat LeBron, so you happy that you beat LeBron twice?

1:03:25 Yeah, everybody's happy that you took two away from LeBron.

1:03:30 Everybody's happy. Not everybody.

1:03:32 Now do you see the problem?

1:03:37 It's a no-win situation for him, though, with KD. Unless he goes and wins it, but then people are still.

1:03:45 Going to say... He's a hired... He is.

1:03:48 A hired sniper... assassin, like.

1:03:53 Whatever it is.

1:03:56 He's a higher gun.

1:03:57 So even on OKC, it was his team, but he had a shared interest because Russ was just as dynamic in putting up stats. So, like, it's always going to be his team because he takes all the pressure off of everybody else who, like a Steph or a Russ... You know, because they have to handle more of the pressure and more.

1:04:24 Of the love. It's just he has a weird, there's this weird.

1:04:29 Narrative with him because it's a complicated narrative, right? Like, you have the Jordan discord and the Kobe discord that kind of is like, we glad that.

1:04:45 He went there.

1:04:46 Because it stopped LeBron from two rings, which forced him to the.

1:04:53 West. So we like that.

1:04:56 We love it that it helped Seth Curry get.

1:05:00 Two more rings. We like that.

1:05:03 We don't like that you took two finals MVP from him, though.

1:05:06 And we don't like that you got two rings now and two finals MVPs that puts you.

1:05:13 Where you are.

1:05:14 So it's this weird love-hate thing that goes on with him, and it's just too late to rewind it.

1:05:20 So it's not like if he wins one in Houston, it's.

1:05:23 Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you teamed up.

1:05:26 Right?

1:05:27 You teamed.

1:05:28 So there's really no.

1:05:29 But is it always in the narrative around KD because it was always the leadership. He doesn't lead. And Kevin Durant has always told.

1:05:37 Us who he is. I just want to hoop. I just want to hoop.

1:05:41 All that other stuff over there, But everybody else's expectations, because you're Kevin Durant, you don't lead, you're supposed to do this. Kevin's like, look, man, I just want to hoop. All that other stuff, all that other narrative, all that other stuff, I just want to hoop, win, and chill. Leave me alone with all that other stuff.

1:05:59 When somebody makes the game look so easy, you have to find all kind of other shit to make it up.

1:06:09 You know what I mean?

1:06:10 Because you can't use his games.

1:06:12 And you can't minimize his game to just score. The motherfucking nose. He does everything. He played defense. He did a lot for the Warriors. He played a lot of good defense. He play-maked. But he's just like, he's automatic. It's rare that we see, you see Steph shooting the threes and you're like, damn.

1:06:35 But this dude is automatic. So whoever he.

1:06:41 Go to, you can just slot him in. Like, dude, that's an automatic 30 on 15 shots. Like, he not taking a lot of shots.

1:06:51 He not really struggling.

1:06:52 You know what I mean?

1:06:53 He's not really in panic mode.

1:06:56 It's just, damn, man, that shit look easy. You know the best part that everyone missed about Katie with the Warriors? They have this thing that say, He can't lead a team while he led a team to the chip.

1:07:15 And one, two, three. But led it how? In scoring?

1:07:20 But I think when they talk about KD's part as well, I mean, you still had Draymond there.

1:07:24 It's personality. You see what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying. It's personality.

1:07:28 I'm a bus driver, right?

1:07:29 It's a personality.

1:07:30 I'm a bus driver, and these are the students that I have on the bus, right? I got a bunch of Memphis back here. I got one that I want to pass the ball, whatever. Hey, we up 3-1. You still trying to take advantage of Curry. You trying to post him up and do all this, and we getting out of rhythm.

1:07:48 I'm driving.

1:07:49 You gave me other great basketball minds and players, and what did I do? Easy breeze, won a championship, finals MVP, showed you I'm the best no matter what team I'm on. But now you don't want to give me the credit for leading the team to the championship.

1:08:14 And you gave me players that I said I needed to win.

1:08:16 It's like you want me to start from the bottom and lead them. But at what point do you switch players out? I switch players out. I said I needed a point guard that knew how to play basketball, who understood the game to a certain level.

1:08:31 That was Steph. So I went with a point.

1:08:33 Guard who scores, but he also went where people can make the game easy for him.

1:08:42 Oh, the game was already easy for me. It was, but you had to do more. You had to lead more, dog. No, I didn't. Fuck yeah, he was up 3-1. He went to a team that already won. That's the difference.

1:08:55 No, no, no.

1:08:56 Yes, it is. That's the difference. He went to the team that lost in the finals.

1:08:59 Yes, but I went to a team....

1:09:02 That made the game easier for themselves.

1:09:05 For you.

1:09:06 The game is easy. I'm an MVP. The game's easy. I scored 37 points. The game is easy for me. Not in the playoffs. But I did too. But not from a leadership perspective. But that's what I'm saying.

1:09:17 Because you couldn't, with what you had, you did not get over the hump.

1:09:24 So that means something is not right. Uh-huh.

1:09:30 Yeah. Right?

1:09:31 And something that.

1:09:32 you are struggling with, these guys make that shit just so much easier. They just make it so much easier.

1:09:39 Like if you're a cook and I say, hey, for me to make this perfect Thanksgiving.

1:09:43 Dinner, right, I need the turkey, I need this, I need that.

1:09:47 And you go to the 99 cent store and you buying the ingredients, right, and you're expecting me to make this perfect meal, but I told you the ingredients that I need.

1:09:57 I said a turkey, right? You brought me a ham.

1:10:02 Now I got two different types of ham.

1:10:04 Now you want.

1:10:05 Me to make the ham taste like turkey. Just give me the goddamn turkey so I can do what I can do. So if you don't want to go give it to me, yes, the guy is talented. The guy is a hall of famer. The guy is this.

1:10:19 But our games clash and it clashed 3-1. It did clash.

1:10:25 If you go back and watch those games, what happened was Russ had the advantage and that advantage was We're going to pick on Steph.

1:10:34 We're going to pick on Steph.

1:10:35 But we do have Robeson. So we're going to put Steph on Robeson.

1:10:40 You want to do the pick and roll with Robeson. Hopefully they switch and you're going to try to take him. So now you're not playing the game that got us here, that got us up 3-1.

1:10:49 That's what was happening in that series.

1:10:51 So, yeah, we lost.

1:10:52 But my argument is like, yo, as a group, we're not smart enough to understand.

1:10:59 Go away from what this is. Exactly. That ain't me.

1:11:02 So I'm going to go with some other people that understands basketball.

1:11:05 Exactly. But that's not the argument. But it made it easier.

1:11:07 But no, that's not the argument.

1:11:09 I know that's not the argument. The argument is lead.

1:11:11 You lead. But see, so lead. I want to lead. But lead is a relative word because Steph leads, but he's not really vocal.

1:11:22 Like when I played with J.K. J.K.

1:11:24 Wasn't a vocal guy, but he just led by how he played. Draymond is a leader by his voice. LeBron is a leader by his voice. So when they talk about KD because he doesn't use his voice like pointing out and he's not a true leader. And that's the narrative that he fought his whole career. You know what I'm saying?

1:11:45 It's a personality thing, dude.

1:11:48 It's a personality thing.

1:11:51 People are picking on KD because they may or may not like his personality or Or back to the superstar, right? He's a superstar, shoe selling, and people may not like his personality or what he did or how he approached the Golden State thing or what he said about it after.

1:12:11 Like, it's more, it's he gets docked. Because of, I think.

1:12:19 And the fact that he's like, yo, you know what?

1:12:22 I don't even care. He don't care about none of that. He know he don't. And so that's what frustrates people, is what I'm saying.

1:12:32 Not me.

1:12:32 But you gotta remember, the vocal leader was Russ. Now the clash is the two.

1:12:38 Because the vocal leader is like, let me do my thing and I'll get the ball to you one day.

1:12:46 And he's like, All right, write vocal later. Give me the ball, yeah. I'm the bus driver.

1:12:50 Just give me the goddamn ball.

1:12:53 I'm the bus driver.

1:12:54 I don't need you coming in here trying to drive the motherfucking bus. I'm already the bus driver. You tell me where I need to stop. When you was hurt, I was driving this bus. So it was just one of those things where at that moment in time, That playoff series 3-1, they clashed.

1:13:21 They clashed, lost the series. One is a free agent, and he's sitting there like, I can go make my life easier. I can go.

1:13:30 No.

1:13:31 I can go win it.

1:13:32 I can go make.

1:13:34 You just said it.

1:13:35 You just said it. But when you say easier my life, my life is easier. But everybody.

1:13:42 Come on, dude.

1:13:42 What I'm saying is everybody.

1:13:43 I'm going to go find the perfect. This is the perfect. This is the perfect plug-in.

1:13:48 Everybody got their perfect combo. Me and my combo is fighting right now.

1:13:54 You know what I mean?

1:13:55 Where's my Scottie Pippen? You see what I'm saying? Where's my Scottie?

1:13:59 I'm the big dog here, right? And we both 1A, 1B, so it's two big dogs. The rest of these guys don't fit the makeup of what we actually need to get to the championship.

1:14:12 To get over the hump, right?

1:14:14 And not only did we not beat this team that we should have beat 3-1, all these next teams are on our heels, right? So I am going to leave and go to a better corporation where I can be the CEO, where everything is smooth, and all of these players around, they can handle their own. So it's like, oh, Klay Thompson, Anthony Robeson.

1:14:42 Now they got to a finals. No, don't. What is it?

1:14:45 There's an OKC got to a final.

1:14:47 They had James Harden.

1:14:48 No, no, no.

1:14:51 One was clearly number two at the time.

1:14:53 Yeah.

1:14:54 So there was a 1A and then it was two.

1:14:58 That year it was 1A and then one is 1B.

1:15:01 And we all know if one is saying I'm 1B, He is clearly not liking the number two.

1:15:10 Even though B is after A, when there's two people fighting over one, it's a clash.

1:15:17 Lakers, when it was one and two, champions. When two was like, oh, no, I'm number one now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:15:25 This is all me. They didn't win in 0-4. They didn't win in 0-3, 0-4.

1:15:30 They didn't win.

1:15:31 Because there's really a divide.

1:15:35 In who team it is.

1:15:36 And one is like, you want my spot? Then you got to leave. But I ain't going to help you.

1:15:41 I'm leaving to go to a new situation where I don't have to worry about none of that shit and I can still be number one.

1:15:52 And ain't nobody over here tripping. The way they play basketball.

1:15:59 It's so complimentary to everything that I bring to the table that they're going to make my job so much easier. And even though basketball was easy last year, can you imagine what the fuck it's going to be this year?

1:16:17 We saw it. It's going to be easy the whole way down. We saw it real bad.

1:16:20 That's no different than LeBron, James, and D-Wade.

1:16:27 It is so different. No, the biggest thing was... It is way different. No, the biggest thing is Dwyane Wade says this is his team. Which means I mentally, as a number one option, don't have to worry about his ego.

1:16:41 He already dropped it. Steph, same thing.

1:16:43 You don't have to worry. When one says.

1:16:46 I'm too gay, we don't have to worry about it.

1:16:48 Yeah, exactly. But that's the only thing that's making it easier trying to figure out, hey, oh.

1:16:54 It's different from LeBron because LeBron was invited in. And LeBron, I think in LeBron's first year, they didn't win it in Miami. was because he was like, yo, bro, you brought me in. You got the legacy of show team. I'm a rockin' B.O.B. D. Wade, after that year, said, hey, man, what the fuck are you doing?

1:17:15 It's yours. I ain't trippin' on none of that. Right?

1:17:19 So if Russ and KD are 1A, 1B, right.

1:17:25 Are you threatened?

1:17:27 Right?

1:17:29 Does it not fit?

1:17:31 But if I go over here, There is no 1A, 1B. The 1, the 2, the 3, all these dudes compliment. So they're going to get me shots. I'm going to get way more open shots with Steph and Klay and Dre in this offense. So he watching that shit like, why wouldn't I go? The problem is they had already got there.

1:18:02 Mm-hmm.

1:18:04 And so that's where he, you know what I'm saying?

1:18:07 But that's, you asked him, it's more so like, why does KD get, I'm just explaining why he get hate because of that.

1:18:13 No, because you wanted to, people wanted to, that was never no unwritten rule.

1:18:19 Nobody knew nothing about that.

1:18:20 Go to a team winning championship and that was frowned.

1:18:23 Upon until he does it. And then you're like, yeah, you know what, we don't like that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1:18:32 Based on your prediction, Cleveland being in the finals, usually you lose, you get over the hump, you go to the finals.

1:18:42 They lost, and he went and joined the team who went to the finals. So he didn't get over the worry. But nobody's ever said... you, that was a thing. They said it now, Gil.

1:18:53 Yeah, they say it now when you do it, but nobody ever said it then in real time. It was just a pattern. I mean, they said it a little bit.

1:19:02 They didn't want to chip, but when Ray Allen left Boston and went to Miami after Miami beat him, it was a thing about.

1:19:08 Between them two.

1:19:10 The players didn't fail.

1:19:12 Well, yeah, yeah.

1:19:13 But the narrative, too, was like, why would you go to a team that just beat you? Even though Ray was a little bit older at the time, it wasn't as loud because it was Ray.

1:19:25 What if it was KG that did that?

1:19:26 I think that would have been a lot louder if he would have went from Boston to Miami rather than Ray.

1:19:33 You don't think? You don't think?

1:19:36 I don't know. I know it's semantics, but I'm just saying. We really do pick and choose.

1:19:42 That's my point. You pick and choose based on the player, right? Yes.

1:19:47 Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, and Wade teaming up.

1:19:52 Is that the same?

1:19:53 That's frowned upon because they chose to team up. But then it's okay when KG.

1:20:01 Ray Allen, even though y'all didn't talk about it, the people behind the scenes wanted y'all to team up so y'all could win the championship.

1:20:08 That's okay. You see what I'm saying?

1:20:13 Someone is trying to figure out how to put the dynasty together, but if the players do it, y'all are wrong.

1:20:20 That's a great point, too. Ladies and gentlemen, that was Mostly Fans.

1:20:25 An extended version of Mostly Fans.

1:20:27 A whole show in itself. Check out our new series, Mostly Fans. Presented by Poly Market. Empowered by Playmaker. Appreciate you guys. I love when y'all get into these spirited conversations. The reality is everybody just hates LeBron, so whatever LeBron does.

1:20:40 That wasn't even about LeBron. It doesn't matter.

1:20:43 It's all about LeBron, Gil. It all comes back. Hey, like, because we didn't talk about LeBron today.

1:20:49 You talked about the Heat. I know. You tend to come back around. Where did Ray Allen go? He's a LeBron fan. Which team did Ray Allen go play for? Who was on that team? It always involves LeBron or Bronny. That's how we started the show. Checks must be nice over there.

1:21:02 Huh?

1:21:02 I said you with Checks must be nice over there. I don't need Checks. I do it for the love. That's even worse. I'm old school.

1:21:09 Check out Memes and Nightmares on Hulu, ladies and gentlemen. Produced by Springham. Shout out to BD. You guys made BD tap out. That's how I know it was a good long show.

1:21:18 But appreciate you to everybody in the chat.

1:21:23 Appreciate you, Jim Jackson, making your first appearance here on the show. Not your last. Thank you for coming through and blessing us with your wisdom. Appreciate it.

1:21:31 Appreciate you, BD. Appreciate you, Gil. Shout out to our amazing, talented crew.

1:21:34 This has been another episode of Gil's Arena, presented by Polymarket, powered by Playmaker.

1:21:40 We will see y'all tomorrow.