Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 106: Courage Shoulders

0:16 Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

0:20 That's right.

0:20 This is the show where we recap our old early episodes with new case info and lots of old feeling.

0:26 Today we're rewinding to episode one oh six, which we name Courage Shoulders.

0:31 Did that hit you at all as familiar? No, you brand new?

0:35 I'm thinking stand up straight, courage.

0:38 Courage Shoulders, the fuck knows, Let's find out. Let's find out today.

0:42 This episode is from February first, twenty eighteen.

0:46 Let's listen to the intro of episode one oh six Courage Shoulders Courage Shoulders. Hello, Hi, and welcome to to my favorite the podcast that's asking everyone a.

1:02 Question that it refuses to answer, It uses.

1:05 To answer or acknowledge, right, It just it makes you ask the question.

1:09 It walks away quickly.

1:10 Yeah, and then it's like quick asking me so many questions, Mom.

1:13 Like you open this conversation Dad with a question what's happening?

1:17 And then you respond with a question of like what's wrong with me? Oh?

1:21 You put it back on me?

1:22 Yeah?

1:22 Oh is that what you do? Yeah?

1:24 And just at the beginning of the colle right, I didn't even I was here eating cereal.

1:29 Yeah, I was loudly eating sugar corn pop right compulsively.

1:35 What are you? Chocolate milk come into my line? Whip chocolate milk.

1:39 As with chocolate milk in it?

1:40 Have you done that before? No? But someone should.

1:42 That sounds insane, it does. It's your new mc nugatini.

1:48 But I used to.

1:48 Put spoonfuls of sugar on like check your cereal. No, not like on non sugar cereal, yes, which is disgusting.

1:57 And it's the same, oh, I know, like rice crisp with four teaspoons of sugar.

2:02 And then the bottom is just like this sludgy sugar, crunchy milk mess.

2:07 And then suddenly cartoons are more beautiful.

2:10 Yeah, everything's more beautiful.

2:11 Everything's so much more beautiful.

2:13 Your teeth hurt?

2:14 Yeah, they eventually fall out.

2:19 What's going on?

2:20 Hi?

2:20 How are you? I'm really good? I'm I'm doing really good. I feel high energy. I'm eating a lot of gencing.

2:28 Just chewing on gin saying. Can I kick it off with this? I'm going against all former models of this show. Okay, skippers, pay attention. I'm going to do a hometown murder right now. Of interest. Okay, it was pulled by Stephen for Stephen about Stephen. Great, let's do it, not in my backyard, not with my Stephen. Okay, the subject line is BTK taught my husband how to tie not.

2:52 Oh my god. Oh no, one of those b that one of those letters is not you know b part find mm hmm yeakay.

3:03 He was kind of good at it.

3:04 Let's talk.

3:05 Let's hear about it. I mean, if anyone's gonna teach.

3:07 You, Hi, ladies, quick hometown murder for you. So my husband's scout master was the BTCH cake killer. And then she writes Dennis Radar. Now, I don't mean to make fun of you, because I'm sure you're a true murderino and maybe you're you're you're what do you call autocorrect made it say Radar, But to read it as Dennis Radar makes me laughter. It sounds like it's like he's like one of the bosses and the Jetson's or something.

3:33 I mean, it sounds like a new wave, like a new wave name, like you're in a band and you change your last name to sound cool new wavy.

3:41 Have you seen that really cute bass player Dennis Radar? Grous Sorry anyway, I'll say Raider from now on. So he grew up only a few houses away from the Radar family outside Whichita, Kansas, also attending school with his children. Raider would take my husband's scout troop overnight to on overnight camping trips, where he would often leave at some point with an excuse to get supplies, et cetera.

4:05 What yeah, you just have.

4:07 To nip off her supplies in the dead of night. In hindsight, he was using the camping trips as an alibi first quote, scouting future murder missions no pun intended snor and possible murders. At the time the murders were happening, it was thought the BTK was focusing on single mother households.

4:24 Well, I didn't know that, and.

4:26 I did be Toka, which was my what my husband's family was. So this was particularly disconcerting when a very loud and barkie family dog went missing from the backyard a couple weeks before someone broke into their home, leaving behind a pair of binoculars and stealing nothing. Oh No happy to report that his sisters and mother are all alive and healthy to this day. Can't say the name for the dog, which was never found. Oh that's can't say the same for the dog or the name or the I thought she was trying to say, like, do not speak of him?

5:01 What if his name is Radar?

5:04 This whole he was named after Radar O'Reilly from mash Okay. But this was also interesting, even though it's a second paragraph. One of the last super random things about BTK. His house went up for auction a couple of years ago, with the proceeds going to his family. The woman who bought the house was an ex stripper and strip club owner.

5:21 She did an amazing thing. She had the fucking house torn down. She said that she wanted Raider's wife to have the money to start a new life. To this day, it's an empty, vacant lot in the middle of the block. Please feel free to see the attached before and after picks that her husband shot. When we first started dating, he had this picture of a house framed, and I was always like, why does he have this artsy picture of this ugly ass house in his cool Brooklyn apartment.

5:46 After I found out what it was, he put a ring on it. That fucking thing went into store it.

5:53 That's crazy.

5:54 Yeah, go stripper lady. Go go, lady, I have one. So if we're doing it's not her hometown. What you got a story? It's called my grandfather hunted the Zodiac Killer, m interested and treated Okay, hello, and this is all one word Karen, George, Stephen, Vince, Elvis, Dottie, mee me, Karen. I forgot your dog's name and I'm so sorry, but hello doggies.

6:19 Okay.

6:19 So basically she heard this stuff, so she wanted to let us know. My grandfather is David Toshi, Dave Tashi, Tashi yas so funny. I was on the way home from our trip, our Nashville show. On the plane, I was watching Zodiac m HM, which is so good and fucking okay.

6:37 So here's what happens.

6:38 He was an SPFD SFPB four years and an inspector on the Zodiac case. Growing up, he would tell my sister's nice stories about working in the case, the crime scenes he was called to you, and most importantly all the squirrels and Arthur Lee Allen's freezer.

6:52 He always talked about the squirrels.

6:54 Over the years, reporters got our relatives phone numbers and addresses, and we either call or show up to our houses wanting to talk to my grandpa about the case. On the rare occasion he was contacted directly, he would get pretty pissed and never gave him an interview. This also included numerous attempts from Grace Smith, who's that.

7:10 Robert Graysmith is the guy that wrote the zodiep book the movies based on, and he's that illustrator that Jake.

7:15 Jolnhoplay, you are so smart? Wow, okay, this one. It's my favorite movie.

7:20 Understandable.

7:20 I'd be pretty fucking tired of talking about it too, But when the movie started shooting, he was happy to beat an advisor on set and got a huge kick out of hanging out with Mark Ruffalo.

7:28 I would too.

7:29 I mean, Jesus, come on, who wanted to perfect my grandpa's mannerisms and such?

7:34 Ruffalo totally nailed it.

7:35 And this is so funny because I was like, what's this fucking animal cracker bullshit?

7:39 It looks so stupid. Why do they have to add this?

7:42 But then she says, right down to the way he spoke the animal crackers in the glove box and taking the tomatoes off of his sandwich. Grahams was pretty jazz to be given the recognition, and the rest of us, as his family, were happy he was portrayed in a positive light rather than the inspector who couldn't crack the case for the sake of a high grossing blockbuster. So she goes on this that her grandpa's sixty eight. He is not in the best of health anymore. And this was written a while ago, so she had just spent This is written at Christmas. She had just spent Christmas with him. Every time I visit, I never know it will be the last time I see him. But he's a badass and keeps hanging on. So here's a couple

8:16 of pictures. And then she wrote us another letter just the other day that he had passed away. Yeah, so fucking rip and big ups to grandpa for being a bad ass.

8:28 Motherfucker.

8:29 Well, he has been portrayed in films twice now, which is like, how much about us do you have to be?

8:36 Yeah, just you're in several films in Hollywood.

8:38 People are like, Ruffalo played you.

8:40 On those fucking bowt Eyes. Love that movie.

8:44 I'm uncomfortable with the fact that I find him darling and cute and wonderful and have a crush on him, but he looks like my uncle and it creeps me out. I'm my uncle who came to our show. Yes, seeds to be like a fucking you know, what's his name? The detective about looking detective who was in like.

9:02 An episode of Colombo Too.

9:04 I was gonna say Inspector Cluseau because I didn't know what we were doing, Inspector Gadget.

9:08 I didn't realize it was a lookalike thing. I was.

9:11 My friend Laura used to live up behind the Gelsons off Franklin, and she had like a barbecue one afternoon and there was a guy there that I was like, God, that guy's so cute. And it was after that first big movie, the.

9:26 One he was in with the fuck lor Lenny people. Oh no, you can count on me. That's right, you can count on me. We didn't remember because we've never said that to anyone, and they absolutely can't and they will not, and they know it, and if they think they should, I'll ask some questions.

9:45 They did it.

9:46 It's such a foreign phrase.

9:48 It is.

9:49 Oh.

9:49 One other thing I wanted to say.

9:51 I started watching the new show on Netflix that is so fucking good.

9:55 It's called Wormwood. Oh yeah, do you know about it?

9:58 Yeah?

9:59 Okay, so it's it's about uh, it's Errol Morris's it's like a okay, it's a docudrama.

10:04 So it's like, have you watch it?

10:06 I watched the first uh two or three? No, no, no, like.

10:10 Part of the first app Okay, it's so fucking good.

10:12 It's really it's about this fucking CIA employee who in nineteen fifty three jumped out of window of at New York City hotel.

10:24 Ruled it a suicide.

10:25 Turns out he was being tested on from MK Ultra with LSD, jumped out the window, and it's the movie is about or the whatever movie is about his son trying to fucking figure out what happened. It's incredible, and like all the actors are so good in a fucking Peter sarsguard so good and ours. You know how much we love stars.

10:44 I love all the Stards, guards, wet, all the names.

10:46 Tim Blake, Neil Nelson, that great actor, Bob ballabanal Bob Valaban.

10:52 It's fucking really, it's really good.

10:54 That's really awesome. I could just you know what it was.

10:57 Maybe we talked about this in person, but there's so John Ronson my new favorite author person audiobook narrator. He has a story and I think it's it's the men who stare at goats because there's them Kalters in there about he went and met that guy and learned all about that story and within that story. After the dad died, like a couple before the mom died, him and his brother went on a bike trip across the United States as like a I think a twelve and a fourteen year old. They rode their bikes literally across the United States.

11:33 And it was in the paper and stuff and it's super crazy like and when you hear it in the audiobook, it's like, this can't be real.

11:41 And they did.

11:42 It's so like exactly what you're like. I knew the government was like this and did this shit.

11:46 I knew it.

11:47 Yeah, and now we get to know it. You know, so nuts. Oh, I've watched have you started watching The Alienist? Yeah? I love it.

11:55 It's good.

11:56 Sorry you don't love it.

11:57 It's just like I read the book and loved it and have an idea head of what it looks like and what it's like.

12:02 But it does seem very true to the book.

12:04 I get that though, you make a movie in your head. Yeah, especially when you love a book.

12:09 Yeah, I'm like, I'm enjoying it so far.

12:11 I was tripping out last night on the Uh.

12:15 How brilliant the opening credits are because they basically they're running the building of.

12:21 New York backwards. I love that.

12:23 It's such a cool It's the coolest way to set that tone.

12:27 And then you're just back so far.

12:29 That, like her working at the police department, is a huge deal in and of itself.

12:33 I mean, the hugest deal is the shoulders on her dresses that are like past the top of her head, like fucking shoulder pads. No, this is like shoulder towers. That's where all her weapons are. That's where her jar of arsenic is. That's where she keeps her courage. That's right when she can tap into it. It's like like with the hats that you have that has beer on it, with a strong you need when you need a sip of beer.

12:56 It's a courage shoulder. It's courage shoulders.

12:59 Yeah, how does she take in the courage?

13:02 I don't know through her nip Listen and scene you get it.

13:14 Okay, we are back in it. How long was that that intro. How long did we used to go? Oh?

13:19 That was one hundred years every time. That's why the skippers complaint. Right, It wasn't just that we were talking about other stuff for a bit, like another podcast, right, or.

13:28 Like true crime in any way, we were talking about cereal.

13:30 We couldn't stop talking about food and ourselves endlessly.

13:35 You know what's been s brought home recently speaking of cereal. But he's a big cereal freak.

13:39 Me too.

13:40 He brought home peanut butter checks checks, number squares peanut.

13:45 What's the base wheat rice?

13:47 I think it's born.

13:48 I think it's both.

13:50 Oh okay, so it's really fucking good. That sounds really like not too sweet either.

13:55 Will you take a picture of the box? I will and send it to me. I will you know what I have right now? That's really good and secretly good, especially for older people.

14:03 Okay, raisin brand crunch. Oh so it's like you're being good to yourself with the raisin brand.

14:09 I gotta have brand, you got it, But then get some crunch in there. You're tricking yourself loving it.

14:14 I was going to go on with the raisin nut brand, but then I just realized we were doing exactly what we just said that week.

14:22 I can not do it.

14:23 We can't be stopped.

14:24 This should have been like a bad food podcast. Oh, we could talk about food for fucking ten more years. Yeah, let's transition. That's the next one. Okay.

14:32 I did not remember getting an email from Dave Toshi's granddaughter, who was the lead investigator and Mark Ruffalo in the Zodiac movie. That's who wrote us an email. I did not remember that.

14:43 That's so cool of us. That makes us so cool.

14:48 It makes us Yeah, did you see the new Zodiac like theory?

14:53 No?

14:53 Basically, Michael Connolly, the author for Prime Authors, says that they did an AI thing with one of the codes and it was broken, and they think that this same suspect that was on the Black Dahlia list is also the Zodiac killer.

15:11 That's AI. This same program that when asked what's best to do for your health every day tells people to eat six small rocks. That's something I saw one time.

15:23 I also think about, like would people how would people feel if like a big true crime cold case got solved because of AI and put someone brought them to justice. We'd have to really fight with ourselves to like be cool about true.

15:40 I mean, if it's scraping like millions and billions of books that have all theorized about all of these different things, who knows. But I feel like that's the same thing of like, get ready because when these monkeys finished typing and Shakespeare's play comes out, we're gonna party where it's just like, well, let's see. But the AI that my endodontist used told him to pull two teeth of mine, and then when he x rayed them, he was like, oh, the AI was wrong.

16:07 Your teeth are fine. Oh my god, that happened to me. Don't use AI for teeth. I mean they're using it for everything.

16:15 Okay, all right, well this is an AI and we promised you that that's right.

16:20 I remember The Alienist. Yes, I watched every episode such a show.

16:25 Okay, now let's get into we're gonna we're just gonna stop doing what we what we've always done on this podcast and get right into Georgia's story for this episode about Teresa Catherine Foster.

16:42 Should we who's first this week? Who went first at the last episode last?

16:48 Oh? Like no, the episode people have heard.

16:52 Yes, I'm gonna leave that one to Steve Karen went first last time.

16:55 Yeah, Karen did Krista Worthington lest Okay, all right, so I'm first.

16:58 This is the story therees, the murder of Teresa Catherine Foster. And I got a ton of my information from a really great article from twenty eleven. Twenty eleven, I don't even need to say the whole thing from a magazine caller or an online magazine called Westward, and it's called The Case of the Kidnapped co Ed Allan Pendergrast wrote it.

17:20 Here we go ten thirty am on Thursday, November eleventh. We're in nineteen forty eight.

17:24 All right.

17:25 Here we are twelve miles south of Boulder, Colorado. Two rabbit hunters come across the body of a young woman, faced down half third in the snow beside a frozen stream.

17:35 She's dead, obviously.

17:37 She appeared to have been dumped there from the bridge that was fifteen feet above along Highway ninety three. Her jacket was tightly wound around her neck and her sweater.

17:46 Was pulled up. Her bra was still on, but below the waist.

17:49 She only had on her loafers and bobby socks, so she had been quote battered almost beyond recognition, as one reporter put it, and to the rabbit hunters, it was obviously she was because the newspapers had been in a crazy frenzy with the missing co ed who had disappeared two nights earlier. So Teresa Catherine Foster was an eighteen year old engineering student at the University of Colorado and had been walking home around ten pm the night she disappeared from a rosary meeting on the Boulder campus. She had been heading downtown well at Main Street, towards the house of a professor at the college and his family, where she lived in exchange for chores. So immediately like, the professor did it right, that's what But it's not true. Okay,

18:33 don't go down there, don't worry about him.

18:35 He didn't do it.

18:36 Put that card aside in this game of clue.

18:38 Yes, not necessary. So the next morning the family was like, she's not here. This is very much not like her. Where could she be. She's not this type of stay out all night, So they called the police. So Teresa's known as a dependable girl. She's super self sufficient. She was the ninth of eleven kids grown who had grown up on a farm outside Greenlee, Colorado. She milk cow, she hunted, She's an honor student. She didn't swear, smoke, she was religious and had a high school sweetheart.

19:05 Even though she was kind of boyshy.

19:06 So she was a really typical girl, not the kind of person to run away with someone or to get into any trouble. So the day after her disappearance, twenty miles from where her body was found. The next day, so her body han't been found yet, the local farmer had found a bloody crime scene at the local lover's lane, so he goes to the locals liver lane. He says that there's so much blood in a ten foot area along the road that he thought someone had been had slaughtered one of his calves.

19:32 Oh, she's initially, but.

19:35 There were bits of hair and scalp tissue, a broken grip of a forty five automatic, and a ring and white scarf identified as belonging to Teresa, and it showed that she had put up a fight. But after her body was found the next day, her autopsy showed she had been raped, bludgeoned, and strangled.

19:52 And it was the first homicide and seventy two year.

19:55 History of the university Whoa and the first murder and Boulder in nine years, the story would be big. The editors of the Denver Post freak the fuck out and they start their own massive investigation on their own in a way that you can only get away with in like nineteen forty eight, and they ultimately put the case and the eventual trial of the suspect at risk by the means of what's it called newspapering this story? Investigating, investigating and not advertising.

20:28 What's the word promoting? Yeah?

20:30 Telling the story? Let me see, you know?

20:32 Telling? Yes, telling, like what I'm doing?

20:34 Got it? So this man named Palmer Hoyt is the editor and publisher of the post, the Denver Post. He's a former writer a pulp detective story, so he's fucking big on this murder mystery story. He launches a campaign to catch Teresa's killer. So at the time, it was normal for newspapers to hire quote experts to help cover murder trials that get an astrologer to prepare the killer's horoscope.

20:58 It's not what I'm saying.

21:02 Forty eight mm hmmm, God, that seems late to be doing.

21:05 Maybe they were doing in the twenties, but then it was like kind of a still a normal thing.

21:09 God, that's but I just would never well that's the newspaper though.

21:13 Yeah, I was thinking like more.

21:15 Police, but yeah, no, no, no, this is all the press still though.

21:18 Yeah, it's a little nutty.

21:19 And it's so like grasping its straws, like we need stories, we need to sell papers. Let's get anything we can get into these papers. It needs to happen.

21:27 What does the moon say about this exactly?

21:30 What does it tell about them?

21:31 So they'd get a psycho analysis to hypothesize the mind of the killer based on what little information they had. So, for barely forty eight hours, forty hours after Teresa's body was found, the sky Palmer Hoyt hired a man named Earl Stanley Gardner to come in from New York, and he had been offered the amount of money most reporters made in a year to come in because this guy Gardner was a self taught attorney.

21:58 Didn't graduate school.

21:59 I guess could do that at the time. Yes, no, no, yeah, I got all those books and I did for sure.

22:04 Yeah, I'm an attorney. I didn't take any test for graduate.

22:07 Can you see my vest? Yeah, it's I'm an attorney.

22:10 See my briefcase right here. Look, don't worry about it. It's right, it's all in there. Look and listen to me as an attorney. But he wears tap shoes. He wears tap shoes. Yes, he had become famous after that, he had become a famous writer of pulp novels, create and eventually created Perry Mason. Holy shit, he's the dude who created Perry Mason.

22:29 They was a self taught lawyers. Huh wow.

22:32 They bring him in. This guy Palmer Hoy, the editor of The Okay, So they bring him in. He at the time made him rich and the most widely read living author on the planet.

22:42 So this guy's a big fucking deal.

22:44 And people are going to buy the newspaper that this guy is writing for.

22:47 They're borning too, They're turning their newspaper into a pulp novel around this story.

22:52 Yeah, it's almost like if you were, like, Kim Kardashian's going to be on my fucking episode of whatever the fuck I'm in my zine, So you're gonna buy the zine that what did that happen?

23:02 It would be a great way to represent Kim. I all knew.

23:05 Yeah, just more Kim in text more Kim. It's not visual with Kim in this time. It's more about her poetry.

23:12 The black and white copies I make at Kinko's are going to turn out great.

23:15 Kim loves collages.

23:16 Kim loves collages, and she's there for all of your fanship.

23:20 There you go, let's keep doing.

23:21 This, So he said, I am I am trying to present to the readers of the Denver Post the situation as it might appear to the eyes of Perry Mason, the fictional lawyer detective who has solved so many cases in my book. So he's fucking there to solve crimes and sell books whatever. So he had insane access to the investigation, and it was treated like a vip by the police and detectives and investigators too, who were like smitten by him as well. The DA the Boulder Sheriff as well as detectives gave him access to their files and all the information on the case. They just like let him come to the station and read everything he wanted.

24:00 He followed a bunch of leads that didn't pan out. He basically sucked it, detecting not in a book that he had written. The story about.

24:06 It's different when you're detecting by making up it up as it goes along, right.

24:10 Or like when you write what happened and then you saw what happened, it's different. So he followed a blood trail that turned out to be animal blood, speculated that the killer cut his hands based on bloodstains, and called for the public to report any weirdos or suspicious dudes. Gathered many and so people started calling in a reporting random people. The posts and all these leads and shit were written about in the papers, so every time some weirdly would happen, it would be written about the post.

24:44 The Denver Post created and detailed and made up scenarios of the possibilities of Teresa's murder, so basically wrote fiction of what happened and published it as fact. They took liberties with the story, fictionalized it, and distorted the evidence. Of course, the fuck term of the day was sex fiend like that was just on every cover of every paper.

25:04 One of the lines was what dark and brutal desires lie within the hidden places of some human beings, What thoughts of perverted pleasures and gnaw at the hearts of some human creatures? What terrible and godless passions lie within the bosom of some we pass perhaps on the street.

25:20 It's like, calm down, dud.

25:21 Well, you just said the same thing three times. Take it elsewhere if you've got some theories.

25:27 Here, right, And it's like, well, keep asking me the same fucking question over and over. Totally so, the Denver police fielded an average of two hundred calls a day about said fucking weirdos that they were like, turn it.

25:38 In, Well, sure, yeah, they're everywhere. I mean they're everywhere doos.

25:41 Ultimately, though, the main suspect was found when his wife turned him in twelve days into the hunt for Teresa's killer, Eleanor Walker. A woman named Elan Walker tells the Bolder detectives about her husband, thirty one year old Joe Sam Walker from Eldorado Springs. She said he had come home late the night that Teresa disappeared, with his clothes bloody and a wound on the top of his head. He had burned his bloody clothes and washed out and repainted the trunk of his car. Oh totally normal, you know, as like you do like and that to do list for Sunday. Yeah, everyone knows always up right at the top.

26:17 Get your cheek cleaned every six months. Repaint your fucking trunk of inside trunk of your car ever three months, yeah, three months.

26:23 Just really get in there and do new colors every time.

26:25 Yeah it's fun. Yeah, maybe wallpaper. Hey, you know something fun? So wound burned repainted. He also told his wife he disposed of a forty five pistol and a parka and one a park So the fucking Denver Post also put a thing in that was like, you know, call about these weirdos and any clues you have, let the police know.

26:46 If you can't get a hold of the police, call us.

26:48 Oh.

26:48 So all these people were calling and like I have this clue, this cool and this clue they had. This woman had found like hidden away and like pipe a storm drain, some bloody clothing, including a parka, and like a rat and all these things. The Denver Post had taken the bloody parka and told her the other stuff wasn't important, so she had thrown it away.

27:06 Good. Uh huh.

27:07 Yes, So definitely listen to the fucking newspapers if they tell you that evidence isn't important.

27:12 I mean, it's funny because you, this is a lot like that book I'm writ that I was reading on the plane.

27:17 It's the same but in the tens. But it's the exact same thing.

27:19 Where like, once a murder happened, then people just came into town that were like, I'm an independent private detective and they could be anybody and they could all access all areas of anything, right, everything recently that they were like applied logic to process. Yeah, it's like, how about nobody stands around.

27:36 Here and no one gets all the information?

27:38 Yeah, we keep it to ourselves.

27:39 Yes, so they So he had gotten rid of a pistol in a parka, some of the one being found.

27:45 He Joe was arrested that night.

27:47 So this dude, Joe Walker's story of the night of the murder was that he had gone to a drive in and had a couple of beers, and then he had picked up a couple. On his way home, he had picked up a couple who were in their twenties hitchhiking on the same street. Teresa disappeared from a couple they had asked to be taken to a lover's lane.

28:04 The man that he had picked up of the couple drink from a pine of whiskey, and the woman argued with him about needing to get home and.

28:13 Let's see da da da da dad.

28:15 So they get to the lover's lane and the man, who to Joe described as short and stocky in his mid twenties, said he wanted to drive the car from there on for whatever reason.

28:24 Walker was like, no, you can't drive my car.

28:26 They got into an argument, and Joe says they began like fighting, punching each other outside the car, and then the man found Joe's forty five in the glove compartment and used it to club Joe in the head and Joe goes unconscious at this point.

28:41 Uh huh.

28:43 When he comes too, the man is gone and the woman is dead, half nude body hanging out of the car trunk. He finds her like that. Yeah, yeah, he's panicked and quote scared stiff. So he puts her body in the trunk and drives south and disposes of her body off the ridge and tosses her clothes after her. Then he goes home to try and wash away all the blood. So he says someone else killed her and he disposed of her body because he was scared.

29:09 Yeah, he just had to do what he had to do.

29:11 Yeah.

29:11 Yeah, don't tell authorities.

29:13 No, definitely, don't bring people to the place where you can prove you didn't do it right.

29:17 Also, your wife isn't on your side. She's gonna tell on you, So be a little more chill about that.

29:22 You haven't been that cool to her for like twenty five years.

29:25 She's not stoked on you.

29:26 Yeah. Yeah, So the cops thought this is a bullshit story. Obviously they poked all these holes in it and his wife, but his wife ends up believing he's innocent, even though the papers go wild and tarnish Joe and are like this.

29:39 Is the sex fiend? Well, and also is didn't she start it? Yeah? And then she just convinced he did the wrong thing. Yeah, oh wow.

29:47 Yeah.

29:49 The Denver Post soon gets all this, just finds all this disturbing info about Joe. In nineteen forty seven, he was arrested in Oregon on a complaint that he'd made quote loot advances were two girls while driving a delivery truck. But the post headline was Oregon police disclosed girls eleven and twelve were molested. So like all this crazy shit and then so he goes to trial in nineteen forty nine and the local jury is picked and of course they've been reading these headlines constantly.

30:21 Yeah, for fucking months.

30:23 There was over two hundred and thirty articles in less than six months written about this.

30:27 Wow, it's a lot.

30:29 So there's hair, blood, fiber evidence that ties him to the scene, but they never tested the semen that was found, which is really weird, even though the defense pressed for tests because they said that it would prove that the client wasn't the one who raped her. It was this hitchhiker, right, So I don't know why they never tested it. It's really weird.

30:47 A waitress at.

30:48 The diner the drive in where he had been said that she had served Joe and a young woman shortly after ten the evening.

30:54 She disappeared, and.

30:57 The jury comes back two days later the verdict of Getty of second degree murder and he sentenced to eighty years of life.

31:03 So they think he was taking her out on a date, not a date as much as like, hey, i'll give you right home.

31:08 We you just come get it, because she was having a coffee, like will you come get a coffee with me?

31:12 Oh, and I'll take you home but at the drive in movie theater.

31:15 It's a drive in like restaurant. Oh, restaurant, you know what. I'm sorry, I immediately went to movie theater. Yeah, but he had had beer and she had coffee, And it's like, why are they did they know each other?

31:25 Why are they hanging out? I mean because I always go to like the fugitive style. What if what he's saying is true?

31:30 But I know it doesn't sound like it, like the idea that he would be going so far as to repaint your truck.

31:36 Yeah, I don't know.

31:38 No, disposing of a body speaks of.

31:41 Guilt, yes, right, I think for sure.

31:44 Yeah. So, less than a month later after he's put away, six months after Teresa's murder, two students from the same school are attacked next to Boulder Creek while on a blind date. The assailant hit the woman in the head with some kind of metal pipe and she was able to get away, but her date, Roy Spore, had his leg in a cast and couldn't run. His body is recovered from the creek the next day. His skulls fractured in several places. His murder is never His murder has never been found either by coincidence or not, Just as Cherisa was, he's an engineering student whoa So two engineering students in six months are attacked in bludgeon to death in the same way, in the same way, in the same area.

32:29 So there is a possibility, but this coincident the fuck.

32:33 Or that it's not that it's the same.

32:35 Murder, that it's a serial killer, but that he's innocent.

32:38 Yeah, I mean the engine engineering student thing could be a coincidence.

32:43 I'd have to see some number.

32:44 Yeah, how many engineer students are there? Invited by a million, by x x x a million, and then go ahead and round that off to three. So yeah, there's three engineering students. Two of them had been killed.

32:58 Oh my god, that's border line of majority.

33:00 If I were that third one, I'd get the fuck out of town.

33:03 I would get on a train by in disguise and I'll get out of town.

33:07 Or is he the killer?

33:08 Oh fuck, I have to be the only engineering student? So sorry? That was him calling. That was the bell that when you get it completely right, That's what that was.

33:20 That when the theories go and go and go, and we finally hit on what happens.

33:24 Karen's phone rings, God texts me and says, yep, here you go. You're doing God's work.

33:29 You're doing my work.

33:30 He said to say, Hi Georgia, hey bro, and that actually your people are the ones that are right.

33:35 Oh good.

33:35 Yeah, she said that's right. Okay, that's what she said. That's what she That's what God she said.

33:41 Okay, blah blah blah.

33:43 After twenty years after Joe gets locked up, the Colorado Supreme Court overturned his conviction due to his claims of pre trial publicity. So right before they are like, pretty quickly before this Sam Shephard, remember him. He's a doctor who maybe killed his wife, maybe didn't yeap in Ohio, his conviction had been overturned because of the media involvement and how much bullshit was talked. So even if he did it or not, it doesn't matter. He didn't get a fair trial. So based on that, the stude show Walker is like, I had it fucking worse, and they're like, yeah you did, and they overturned his conviction.

34:22 Wow. Yeah.

34:23 So they concluded that the Denver Post had injected itself into the investigation investigatory process by distorting evidence, presenting speculation as fact, and dubious detective work as infallible, and they described events that never happened and generally whipped up publicity quote so extensive, so slanted and prejudicable, so calculated to inflame, and so all perversive as to make a fair trial for Walker impossible. So whether or not he fucking did it, they let him go. Yeah, he maintained his innocence until nineteen eighty two when he hanged himself in a Texas motel room. Shit, So we don't know who killed her, and we don't know if it's him. I'm going to guess it is, but you know.

35:04 But still there's the doors open.

35:06 I just and I'm sorry to correct you, but this one people are going to talk about.

35:10 Hung All perversive, is what you said.

35:13 But it's all pervasive and perversive I think is like a different right sort of a fetish thing, the all all the dirty things you can.

35:22 I'm going to say it's perversive, though I say I meant I don't know. I want to say it is correct that I meant that.

35:29 Well, you can do that if you want to.

35:31 What was the words I used last time that ended up being I mean, dude, what was it?

35:36 It was proclensity?

35:37 But it was proclivity and propensity, Yeah.

35:39 Which turns out are the same, are the same, and so proclensity is basically I was mashing upwards in.

35:46 Yeah in retrospect. Yeah, I don't not say that.

35:49 No, No, I was doing it on purpose.

35:50 Then, right, Okay, we're back. Are there any updates for this?

35:57 No case updates that we did receive a hometown from a listener titled Earl Stanley Gardner actually a motherfucking justice seeking murderino. So here it is, Hi, ladies, animals and Stevens. I was listening to George's account of Teresa Catherine Foster's murderer during my commute when she mentions Earl Stanley Gardner while this dude is known for Perry Mason and in this case, his questionable investigative assistance and even more questionable loeducation, I freaked out. I think I gasped alone in my car because I spent the better part of a year researching Gardener and his true crime column, The Court of Last Resort for my honors thesis who Smart. The column, which ran from nineteen forty eight to the nineteen sixties

36:38 in a pulp magazine called Argacy, stood a him on the rote narratives of other true crime magazines where the justice system always caught the bad guys. Instead of retelling these stories again and again, Gardner investigated cases where the justice system had purportedly failed to nab the right guy, making it an early example of true crime, which manages to captivate audiences as well as impact the cases they can cover. All told, Gardner and his column contributed to the exoneration of seven Men.

37:05 Wow, so yeah.

37:05 Even though he's most known for Perry Mason, Our Dude, Gardener should also be remembered for pissing off the authorities and getting people.

37:12 Out of jail.

37:13 One Exonerie Clarence Bogee, even became engaged with a reader that found him after reading Gardner's columns about him Exoneration and.

37:22 Matchmaker not a plus.

37:24 Much love from a new cat owner and forever Murderingo Leslie.

37:28 Oh, did you send a picture of your new cat and see it? Tell your cat? I said, that's my favorite jumper sticker. That's pretty incredible. Yeah, I want to read more about it. I'm want to read that you've never heard of that?

37:38 No, all right, let's get into Karen's story about Luigi LNGI the shampoo Killer.

37:49 Okay, so this my murder this week is from one of those packs of true crime training. First Steven gave us, well, you gave him to us two Christmases ago, is that right?

38:02 Yeah?

38:03 Yeah, yeah, I belive that long time.

38:05 I know.

38:06 Oh my good.

38:06 So I think I might have gone through all of mine, Like I think if you gave us four or five packs.

38:11 Each, I didn't open all the I'm really weird about that because it's just such a special thing when it's in a package.

38:17 But I mean, are you going to open on? I don't know.

38:19 I'm scared, like I want to save one unopened.

38:22 It seems to open the other four. But there's good stuff in there. I know, I know I need to. Okay, do it?

38:28 I mean, I get what you mean. But then well I'll just tell you this and you can decide for.

38:32 Your Should I do a video of the you know how they do like unpackaging videos?

38:36 Yes?

38:36 Should I do that with.

38:38 Do it.

38:40 Perfect?

38:40 Please log onto Georgia at YouTube dot net.

38:46 For the new unpacking put it on.

38:48 Our Instagram, make it an Instagram story. I hate those oh shot because they go okay, why am I talking?

38:55 They disappear in twenty four hours. Right, what's that about.

38:58 I know it's stupid.

38:59 It's for just throw away culture. Everything around is this throw away. Don't get me started.

39:06 Okay, well here's what I will tell you. So I have gone through all of mine, pulled out a lot of them mafias because sorry, it's just not my jam, gotten a lot of great ones. But this one was from a brand new pack that, sorry, Stephen, is not the pack you gave us, but a listener that we met in Las.

39:27 Vegas gave us.

39:29 And I pulled this out on the plane, I think, probably flying home or flying a Phoenix, and I laughed.

39:36 Out loud, like a real creep at.

39:38 This specific one, this specific one, and then was overjoyed. And then I was like, I'm finally one ahead, like I know what I want to do, which just never happens. I always feel like I'm scrambling to think of things. So I'm like, here it is whatever.

39:52 I'm excited.

39:53 It's a little short though, because it is a.

39:56 Foreign crime and it's a one off. So most of the articles that I found that were the same it was, yeah, people regurgitating the same article to the point where there was one that was just somebody that had taken the end of the story and put it at the top of the paragraph and then basically told it backwards where it was like but word for word it was the same.

40:16 And it's like they hit translate, yeah, and it's a translate bad translation.

40:21 You know, make it your own, you put something in there that's for you.

40:25 But anyway, so.

40:28 Thank you for the listener who gave us as I'm sorry, don't have your name on this piece of paper.

40:33 That's really uncool. Here's what I will say though.

40:35 Those True Crime Trading cards were written by Valerie Jones and Peggy Collier and the art is drawn by Paul Lee and it was all done in nineteen ninety two.

40:43 Oh I love this shout out right, yeah, because.

40:45 They made all those fucking things. And I love it's two women and it's two women, and they took heat for it. Remember when when they came out and everyone's like, this is disgusting and this.

40:54 Is this culture of celebrating murderers.

40:57 Yeah, where it's like, no, it's just a bunch of great interesting for me.

41:00 Us twenty years bro, it's history, baby listen, baby bro.

41:04 Also, it's out, it's all out of Forestville, which is a little town north of Petaluma. Oh, probably about half an hour going toward the Russian River.

41:14 That I know very well.

41:15 That's your fucking hood. So to invite them to our if we ever have a Sacramento show.

41:18 That's a good idea, or a show in Santa Rosa.

41:21 Yeah, Sacramento.

41:22 You guys can stop sending us your threatening postcards that you've been sending us.

41:25 Yeah, that's right, We have things in the works for you, you beautiful demanding listenings has worked and will work. Yeah, okay, okay, sorry, no, no, no, So this is the story of the murder Luigi Longi. Now I don't speak Italian. This is a surprising Wait, you don't. I don't speak Italian. I'm sorry, what so I'm not sure if l O n g h I long High is ice is songy Longie is what I'm MONGI?

41:55 Yeah?

41:56 So. Luigi Longie was born in nineteen fifty four to Italian parents in Switzerland, and from a very early age he had a sexual fetish that got him into a lot of trouble with the law, which one it's a very interesting and rare one. At age ten, he was arrested for stealing women's wigs and bottles of shampoo from hair salons in the neighborhood.

42:17 That is an have you heard anything about this? No?

42:21 I mean that's a new fetish that I haven't heard of, and from such a young age.

42:25 Oh yeah, what happened? I got this.

42:29 Just to go into I was trying to be like, oh, what would that childhood obsession with hair? What would that mean that specific? I guess we'll call it it's a paraphilia or a fetish, but it's I can't find anything about it anywhere. It only brings you to the one where you trickophilia, I think, where you pull your hair out.

42:50 So but a bumber one that is. Yeah, that's a tough one. I had a friend that used to pick a little part of his eyebrow all the time when he was stressed out, so you knew that he was like in the middle love an edit or something.

43:01 When he like, part of zybro would be gone. My backs. It always grew.

43:04 I knew a little girl who when I was yet little, who pulled her hair out. It was really sad, and her brother like threatened all her friends, all the girls in her grave.

43:12 If you fucking make fun of my sister, I will, Oh, that's all.

43:14 I know.

43:14 It's very sweet. He like kind of yeah, it was really sweet.

43:17 Also, I think there are a lot of childhood things like that that it's common.

43:22 I think a lot of.

43:22 People will have everyone. Everyone shows her anxiety in different ways.

43:26 I used to do the thing or I wouldn't take my jacket off on the playground even though it was hot.

43:29 Ooh, I don't know. I would read weird.

43:32 I always thought that people were putting notes on my back, and so I would I would constantly be reaching to touch my back and constantly be checking my back.

43:39 But did you see that happen to somebody else.

43:41 Probably in like Parker Lewis Can't Lose or something like and a fucking saved by the bell, And so I was like constantly but just I thought everyone was making fun of me. Of course time, Yeah that was mine because you were in junior high elementary school.

43:53 Oh wow, No, I was on math in junior high. So no, I want to talk with me. That was my tick.

43:57 That was my tick in junior highs taking math. Just maybe I'll.

44:02 Stop sucking with me.

44:03 Yeah, that's a different kind of tick.

44:05 Uh huh no, No, So this is on Wikipedia, which you know how they always have like you, it'll cite it if you need a reference, Like if you're just stating something in an article, they're like, you have.

44:16 To preference it. Yeah.

44:18 I think there should be the same citations for grammar, because listen.

44:21 To how this paragraph sounds.

44:22 Love it, let me have it.

44:23 Hair fetishism comes from a natural fascination with the species on the admiration of the coat as its texture provides pleasurable sensations. An infant develops this kind of pleasure to feel the hair on his or her early life, manifesting and aggressive behavior that will drive to pull the hair of people with which it interacts.

44:42 That was the most gorgeous sentence.

44:45 I'm getting that whole thing tattooed on my back in italics.

44:48 You know when you hear something and you're just like, oh my god, that's it. That is like the wisdom of the ages on its coat.

44:55 I want you to repeat it, but it's too long, but I still love it. It's really long.

44:58 And also essentially it's just like children with hair fetishism, like the touching hair at an early age, so much.

45:06 More Well, someone put that in like that quote as like one of those motivational photo quotes with like the ocean in the background.

45:14 Yea, and we'll post it.

45:15 Maybe if there's a lady that has haired down to her feet. Oh, if you could super impose Crystal Gaiale into this.

45:21 Okay, she's a country you know her? Oh? No, is she the one with the long lady with the longest hair in the world. Yeah, and she was Loretta Lynne's sister. Anyhow interesting.

45:32 I also then in trying to find articles about the shampoo the fetish of wanting to shampoo women's hair, I found an article from The Independent from two thousand and seven where they talk about the results of the largest global study of sexual kinks ever undertaken. And it turns out that among sexual preferences for body parts, feet and toes are the most popular at forty seven percent.

46:00 Shoulders, speed and toes, all feet and tess feet and toes.

46:03 They also found that when it came to objects associated with the body, shoes, boots and.

46:07 Other footwear scored sixty four percent.

46:11 And just to give you a sense of compared to other things, and this is based on the views of men and women okay, one hundred and fifty people with a penchant for hearing aids two who had uh fetish for pacemakers? They have Twelve percent of them were turned on by underwear, nine percent by coats, seven percent by hair.

46:41 So it's kind of in the low middle. I guess it's but it's present, it's there, it represents, but it's in no way near thing. Five percent muscles, four percent genitals, five percent muscles, five percent muscles and four percent genitals.

46:55 Do you think that'd be number one?

46:56 You would think that maybe it's just too obviously chee on the nose.

47:00 Two on the genital. You're it's like, no, I'm into nose.

47:02 How about the nose?

47:03 Yeah?

47:04 Uh. The lowest scores and so sorry, guys went to stethoscope's wristwatches, bracelets, diapers, and catheters.

47:12 Ooh catheters, ooh catheters. Where did my mine of nacho cheese fries come in?

47:20 It ranks it's oh my god, eight percent.

47:23 Look at this great.

47:24 I see nacho cheese fries and I'm just like right, and you're like to girl, girl, girl guy?

47:30 Thence okay, now, then from this article I stumbled onto an article about object sexuality, which is that thing where people fall in love with bridges and marry them.

47:39 Oh, like the actual object they're into.

47:41 Okay, because I was kind of trying to go like, well, if you're if you don't have anything to tell me about washing lady's hair, then maybe this area will. And I just kept clicking on things that were bringing I actually got to a hair washing corn site. What I didn't click on it though, because no, because that's forever.

47:58 Yeah, did you what about is the person who married a roller coaster in there?

48:02 Yes?

48:02 Well, in my short list this is a Woman's Day article from twenty ten, where there it's a list of the ten known romances between people and things. Oh my god, including the Berlin Wall, a fair ground ride, which I think is what you're talking about, a body pillow totally understandab about that, Jesus, a Nintendo video game character, oh, a Volkswagen Beetle, yeah, the World Trade Center, a steam locomotive understandable, an iBook, sure, and the most romantic of all, a metal processing system.

48:39 So man, there's like a glitch in the matrix of your brain when those things happen.

48:44 Yeah, I mean, what were we to say? It's right.

48:47 It's everybody gets some weird thing that happens to them when they're like five, and they go like, oh, that's my thing, and then that's just how it is.

48:56 Yeah, I guess you get emotionally attached to whatever.

48:59 Yeah, here's some weird memory that's just like ooh Christmas and points set as that turns me on.

49:05 Okay, so here, let's get back.

49:08 Let's get back. We're not trying to kink shame anybody. I'll just kind of throw some things out here.

49:12 You're actually kink and shaming and showing all the beautiful ways that there are to love and fuck.

49:17 Right, because one I, you know, focused on the foot, like the fucking aspect, but then I brought it around to love with the metal processing system.

49:24 No shame, get yours.

49:26 That's the way you have to from the bridge. Don't hurt anyone in the progress or a bridge. Oh yeah, there's such bridge. They're sensitive.

49:33 They have to be there all the time for people. Yeah they seem strong, yeah, but they're really not.

49:38 Yeah, deep down.

49:39 Deep down in a windy day.

49:41 All right.

49:41 So Luigi Longie spent some time in mental institutions. Uh, and he was eventually deported from Switzerland in nineteen seventy seven when he was twenty five, so he moved to Denmark, a city called Padborg. Padborg, let's do it, uh, I think I just make the worst fucking ikia joke.

50:02 In the world. Please mark that in all ideas similar to it.

50:07 No, no, leave it because you held back to.

50:10 Show that I have control. Thanks, okay.

50:13 So he says that this is when he began hiring women who would let him wash their hair. He never asked for sex, he never harmed them in any way. He just shampooed them compulsively. In fact, he was a virgin.

50:28 Hair.

50:28 Yeah, that's what he needed to get it done. So on May thirtieth, nineteen eighty one, when Luigi was twenty nine years old, he picked up a German hitchhiker named Haika Freiheit at the Danish German border and he offered her to buy her a ticket to Copenhagen if she would come and let him wash her hair in his apartment, and she was like, okay, I can get home.

50:53 It's almost like if instead he like offering that to me is creepier than he was, like, can you come over so I can murder.

51:00 You yes, because your hair washing part is just like what Yeah, that's.

51:05 It's all questions. Yeah, there's there's nothing. You can't trust it. It doesn't sound normal.

51:11 It doesn't sound that easy. You know it can't be that easy.

51:14 Right, because normally the way hair washing works is you pay someone else to do it for you.

51:19 Right, and like you don't have to be alone with a strange man.

51:23 And I know this is it, right, that's key.

51:26 I know this is you know, like obviously he had mental problems for an early age, but I wish someone had told him you can get a job washing women's hair and get paid for it.

51:36 I did it, did you really?

51:38 For a short time?

51:39 Yeah? What are there any tricks we need to know?

51:41 Yeah, every person who washes hair has a spot that they just immediately miss, like you just ignore this one, and so mine was like the back right side of the next. So you have to make sure to do that. Don't spray people in the face. I was really bad at it. Oh yeah I was. It's really intimate. It's really really intimate, and like it's and I was like twenty not even twenty years old, So I was just like suddenly like caressing people's heads.

52:11 With basically kind of with your booths on their face. Yeah, I mean is the position, Yes.

52:16 It's odd.

52:17 It's really creepy and intimate.

52:18 And as you like, that's an interesting perspective because just as the receiver, you just I always just close my eyes.

52:24 I'm like I met the massage parlor.

52:25 I think that's key. Is that close your eyes? It makes it less creepy.

52:29 Yeah, don't fucking stare at the person that's trying to wash your hair. No, that's not the time for icon to be polite and close your fucking eyes.

52:36 Have a personal moment.

52:37 If you can't close your eyes because you're that, you know the insanity inside you is such you can't be alone in there in the dark. Look away, baby, do a half away, do a half half lid, look.

52:50 Away, zone out. Yeah, please if you can.

52:52 She goes there, he washes her hair to the point where in this I wish there was so much more information about this.

53:00 They both fell asleep.

53:02 So he must have been good.

53:04 He must have been good.

53:05 She could have been on some drugs, felt comfortable. He may have been very non threatening and like she just was tired.

53:12 Hit check you had good hair wash man.

53:16 It can be so nice.

53:17 Oh my god.

53:18 Well, so he wakes up and he wants to wash her hair again. Okay, but he knows now, this is the dividing line between when he usually gets women to wash let him wash their hair, is that he does it and then they leave. So now he wants to do it again. He knows she's going to say no, so he decides to tie her up, so he binds her hands and her feet, and then she wakes so she's waking up as he takes her back over to the chair at the sink.

53:44 To wash her hair again. Oh god.

53:46 And once she gets in the chair, he gags her and then binds her to the chair so that she won't move around, and then he proceeds to wash her hair for hours and hours until he runs out of shampoo.

53:58 Are you fucking kidding me?

54:00 Uh huh.

54:01 And then and this is the part where and I was It was not humor laugh It was like nervous.

54:05 What the fuck am I reading on? Holy god?

54:07 Last? Yeah, yeah, just I've never heard anything like this. So then when he runs out of shampoo, he looks around his apartment for other things he can use, so then he starts shampooing her hair with honey. Then he shampoos her hair with salad dressing and cottage cheese, so.

54:26 Which is horrifying.

54:28 I am speechless and insane. And then it also reminded me in this seventies. I can't remember if we've talked about this or not, my mom used to put a conditioning pack on her hair on the weekends.

54:38 That was just mayonnaise.

54:39 That's what I used to do.

54:41 How do you stand, I don't know. Gross, And she would have it.

54:44 She'd have like perfectly manicured fingernails with mayonnaise underneath them.

54:48 She'd be like, honey, hand me that thing. And I'd be like, I can't be anywhere near you.

54:52 I would use like fucking thisstfuls. Yeah, fucking mayonnaise in your hair. You wrap plastic wrap around your head. Yes, let it fucking marinate. Yeah, in your hair is beautiful and shiny and stinks. The stink is so gross, it's so bad. It's fucking raw eggs. Yeah, rotten eggs.

55:11 It's rotten eggs that you're putting on your head.

55:13 What I think is interesting about the fact that he did that and kept doing with other stuff is that it's not about washing her hair, and it's like that it makes you understand something more about this fetish, which is it's like it's manipulating the scalp and hair of a woman and the act of doing that rather than the washing.

55:31 Right, it's not about cleanliness, about.

55:33 Cleanliness or the woman enjoying it.

55:35 No, because no one's going to enjoy cottage cheese fucking rubbed it in their head unless meets me or your mom.

55:42 And a small handful of other people.

55:44 No, it's about his enjoyment of touching her hair with liquid in it.

55:48 Yeah, and probstilating the scalp and the touching hair.

55:56 Okay, So so all the while while she's being shampooed of or she's struggling against her restraints. But now he's worked himself up into a frenzy because he can shampoo her. He like, there's no he's out of control. He can do whatever he wants. So then he decides he wants to see what she looks like naked, and so he rips her clothes off. And so this is when Ike begins to stomp her feet on the ground. She's trying to get like a neighbor to notice or know that something's wrong, and when she starts to do that, he's put and it doesn't say when this happened. He's put a noose around her neck, so he's tightening it trying to make her stop stomping her feet, and she ends up dying of asphyxiation.

56:40 Oh my god.

56:41 He later tells the police that it was an accident.

56:44 He says, I never intended to kill her, but suddenly she went limp and I realized she was dead. But in a couple articles too, the way they phrased it was almost like she strangled herself by fighting against the ligatures, and it's like.

56:59 It's weren't there exactly? And also if he.

57:03 If there's anything noose like in the story, sorry that there's one. There's one use for.

57:09 If there's a way to strangle yourself because there's something around your neck, then then he killed her.

57:15 Right you had if you were beginning to strangle yourself because you were moving, you'd stop moving. Yeah, yeah, this is not on her. Uh Okay, So of course he panics. And what does he do, which then also combines some other interest that we have.

57:31 He stuffs her body into a.

57:32 Wall space, puts lime on it, and gets the fuck out of dodge. Nine months later, there were workmen who are reinsulating the roof.

57:42 Nine months they didn't mind her. Does lime work that well? Well no, I didn't say.

57:48 What like, they found her body, so it's not like it completely disintegrated.

57:52 Okay, but maybe it can smell, That's what I mean.

57:55 It's like no one was like.

57:56 I have no idea, but yeah, it took nine months and then they fucking look down and there's a body in a wall, which is horrifying but also one of the stories that we were asking people to send us things in walls. So anyway, Luigi Longi pled not guilty, but on March eleventh, nineteen eighty three, he was found to be criminally insane and confined to a mental institution for an indefinite amount of time.

58:20 I was thinking this was like the forties, no shit, eighty three.

58:24 So because the true crime Crime cards were written in nineteen ninety two, on the card it says where he remains until this day. We don't know if that's true, but if he is still all like today, he'd be sixty six. Yeah, And that's the short and singular story of Luis G.

58:43 Longi. Wow.

58:45 Yeah, let's go find him.

58:47 Yeah.

58:49 Oh that's creepy.

58:52 That's so creepy. Yeah, guys, send us here. Tell us your fetishes, you know, things like no imagining the inbox now.

59:04 I know, send Steven your fish.

59:06 Well we have all these new listeners. The people have no interest in true crime whatsoever.

59:10 They just want us.

59:11 They're fetish. Is us reading their fetish? Yeah that's right, Podcast against our Will?

59:14 Uh huh, but that was fucked up.

59:18 Yeah that was a quick episode.

59:19 Yeah, okay, we're back, Karen. Any updates, No updates for this story. All right. Well then let's get into good things of the week.

59:36 What's your thing that makes you happy?

59:38 The same? You're positive?

59:40 Uh yeah, my thing is another gift from a person the VIP line, the peeline.

59:48 It's called it's a book called.

59:49 The Man from the Train by uh, a man who's normally a baseball writer named Bill James, but he also wrote the book Popular Crime.

59:57 Which got a lot of us have read. Oh, I have to read it.

1:00:01 So he's it's very cool because he's approaching it's basically, there's this you have to read it, so I don't want to like overly spoil.

1:00:08 But he's linking the veliska.

1:00:11 Axe murders and a bunch of other really grizzly murders. It's one guy that used to ride the train and it's just incredible and he uses that kind of like here's all the things this guy did, and he did it every single time. And they went through and pulled all the stories from back then of was somebody killed by an axe in a small town near a railroad, and it's incredible. They did so much research. It's so so good. And also the way he writes, like sometimes I feel like when I read true crime books, it's very like it gets very prosy and like kind of like the very overly descriptive.

1:00:54 This guy it's like he's just talking to her. It was like we'll talk about that.

1:00:57 Like like here's the research, yes, and like and that you might that might remind you of this, but it comes back later, so we'll talk about that.

1:01:04 Like it's really cool narrative.

1:01:06 And then it's just really clear and it's one of those really satisfying like if you know about this crime and this crime and this crime, he's like it's all one guy.

1:01:14 Nice. Yeah, Okay, I really want to read it.

1:01:17 Yeah, I'm halfway done, so you'll have it in you know, two weeks, okay, my seven months?

1:01:23 Great?

1:01:24 Or I think yeah, or I'll buy it. Oh, I just bought a stranger beside me. Can I just say cats? I think that's making me happy as cats, my cats and watching them. Sure, that's what's making me happy right now. It's just nice to fucking sit and chill at them. And we're gone so much choring that, like, when I get to come home and see them, it just makes me really happy. Great, yeah, okay, we're back.

1:01:51 So this episode is we all know, was originally entitled Courage Shoulders.

1:01:55 But if we were naming it today, maybe we would call it.

1:01:59 Well, it should be not with my Stephen, definitely not in my backyard.

1:02:05 Not with my Stevens.

1:02:06 Then all of the stars guards. Yes, that's that one is pretty great. Always Yeah, Shoulders, Speed and Toes.

1:02:13 Shoulders, Feet and Toes, which is George's remix of the classic children's hit and of course bridges are sensitive.

1:02:21 All right, Well, thanks for listening to everyone here in twenty twenty six. Let's go back to twenty eighteen to say goodbye.

1:02:30 Well, thanks for listening to you guys.

1:02:32 Thanks guys for listening all right, stay sex and don't get murdered.

1:02:36 Bye, Alice, my cookie.

1:02:39 No