THE HERD – HOUR 3 – Urban Meyer on USC’s Shocking Win Over Ohio State

Thanks for listening to the Herd Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the Herd at foxsportsradio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to the Herd Podcast. Hour three, Seahawks-Bears tonight. Urban Meyer in 15 minutes.

Best college football weekend potentially of the season, plus one of the best ever. What a night it'll be. Broncos beat the Chiefs in an AFC West thriller. You know, the closest thing we've seen. to the Belichick-Brady dynasty as Mahomes and Andy Reid. But during that New England dynasty, they were never bad on special teams, had a weak O-line, multiple bad contracts, never beat themselves. Last night, though, I felt like the Chiefs beat themselves. 11 penalties, lost a double digit lead in the fourth quarter. O-line's a mess.

Special teams, get out of here. Kansas City just took too many chances on character slash red flag guys. and they haven't panned out, and the roster is really, really thin, and you're putting all of it on Mahomes to figure it out. They needed a fifth-round running back, Emmitt Johnson, to play like Barry Sanders last night to take a lead.

Seattle's roster last weekend and Denver's roster last night, they're just deeper and more athletic with superior all-line play. It's the fourth season in a row Kansas City doesn't have a top-10 offense. I mean, they haven't completed a ball down the field perfectly, weeks. So the verdict's in Seahawks and Broncos figured it out. Go all out to stop Kenneth Walker. Take your chances with my homes going downfield.

There's nobody open. And it takes the league a while to figure some stuff out. I mean, you don't have to like Bo Nix, but wide receiver, tight end running back. Denver's got dudes. Denver's got dudes. And Andy Reid and Mahomes, you just keep piling things on them. And I mean, the trade deadline's a week away. They got to go get a wide receiver. They have to go get a wide receiver. And by the way, the last two weeks, this O-line has allowed the second most pressures in the league.

So they have a major deficiency on the O-line. They benched a guard with all their problems. They benched a guard before the game. And you know they didn't want to do that. So you can take an occasional red flag guy, character issue guy. You can't take multiple guys like that unless your unless your core is amazing. Well, let's talk Kansas City's core. Trent McDuffie traded him away.

Travis Kelsey, 37. Chris Jones, dude, didn't have a tackle last night. He hadn't done much in two weeks. So again, when your core is compromised, when your core is aging, when your core is expensive, Chris Jones, and it's not delivering, you start relying on fifth round running backs to carry your offense. And so it took a while for the verdict to be in, but people have figured them out.

The Seahawks and Denver, both well-coached defenses with a lot of dudes are like, All right, we're going to take out Kenneth Walker, see what you can do downfield. And they don't have anything. So listen, even a great samurai can't win a sword fight with a plastic knife. Patrick Mahomes, it's the trading deadline in a week. You have got to get him help. You had the game. You were somehow in the lead. with 11 penalties and bad special teams and a thin roster. And don't even get me going on why you tried a 50 plus yard kick in a rainstorm with a, with a kicker that's been on a cold streak for the season. Here's Travis Kelsey after.

You know, obviously in our hearts we feel like we should have came out with a victory, but at the same time, you know, that's not the reality of things. The reality of things is that we've got to fix a lot. And the little things, mistakes, and it starts with the person that you're looking in the mirror. And I'm one of them. I've been frustrated with myself on how long I've been in the league and the procedural stuff that's happened for the past three games, really.

All right. You know, I thought the Cowboys had bottomed out, but they grabbed a shovel and they continue to dig, which is great when you're searching for oil, Jerry, but not for football teams. I think this was like a five-year low. At home, 24-10 lead in the fourth, a backup quarterback, Gardner Minshew, bottom three roster, comes back and beats you. You can't stop them, and they stop you.

I mean, I had no idea Tyler Algier was like the second greatest running back in the history of the sport. Like what is happening here? I mean, Gardner Minshew became the only quarterback in the NFL this year to throw for three touchdowns in the fourth quarter. And I'm not nitpicking. I can do that with Kansas City's field goal decision.

I mean, Dallas has played the fourth easiest schedule. They're three and five. The Giants are on a third quarterback. They lead the division. This isn't nitpicking. This is like way out in front of you. And most alarming, they lose different ways defensively. The Cowboys have become those two robbers in Home Alone. They're falling down the stairs. They're tripping over paint cans. They're stepping on toys. It's a different way to be ridiculous throughout. And you were playing at home. At least those guys were on the road.

I mean, I'm watching Dallas now week one against the giants. Remember they couldn't get the ball back. Only two possessions. Remember that they couldn't stop the giants with Jackson dart. And then in week three, they faced the Ravens. And remember the Ravens game. It was that overseas botched clock management, special teams decision. And then they face in week five, Tampa with an undrafted rookie quarterback. Couldn't get him off the field. And then in week six, they had extra time.

They go to green Bay with Dak Prescott, Pickens, lamb, Javante Williams, good old line, get five first downs in the first half playing from behind that yesterday. Yeah. It's one thing that the defense last in the league and anything gave up six yards of play. You can, we, we, we know it's not good. It's supposed to be better than that, but we know it's not great. And we know Jerry went cheap on coaching, but the offense had two big possessions, fourth quarter and a regulation. And they went backwards with both backwards. So again, it'd be one thing if Josh Allen and James Cook and DJ Moore are lighting you up, but Gardner Minshew, I mean, I like Michael Wilson. I like Elgier. He's a good running back,

but this is the worst coach team in the NFL. And it is a wide margin. And I'm watching yesterday. The dolphins are not great. They play hard. Jeff Halfley is doing a lot with They play hard. That defense pretty good. The Titans aren't very good. They need about eight more players. But every time I watched the Titans, the last three or four weeks, they get better. They're improving.

Dallas is going backwards. And Dallas has at least 10 to 12, like legitimate players with all these trades and acquisitions and draft capital and money. I mean, Caleb downs in the right hands would be a stud. He's getting bulldozed last couple of weeks. So to me, I was thinking about this yesterday, watching Dallas play. DAC all quarterbacks to some degree, put their career in the hands of their GM owner and coach DAC deserves better. And he's not the kind of guy that would ever demand a trade or call out teammates, but he's coming off the field yesterday. And I'm looking at him. This, this is, this is bad. And again, not all teams with losing records, the dolphins are playing their butt off. The Titans are

getting better every week. Some teams have personnel deficiencies. That is not, that is not Dallas's problem here. They got dudes there. They're not that far off Denver. They got players everywhere. Two-star receivers. I mean, I'm getting to a point now, one more bad week. I mean, if they're bad next week, do you move off George Pickens and get a peck? I mean, seriously, I'm starting to think about them like the Colts. Let's just start moving, guys, because this isn't working. And, you know, and Dak, because he's classy and always in crisis, he says the right thing.

He could point a lot of fingers, but afterwards he didn't. It's all of us. It's all of us.

Don't put the blame on one person. Simple as that. I think that's weak. I think that's cowardly. This game is about all, as I said, all 11 that touch the field and every person that has a part in it, coaches and support staff.

And so.

It's never just one person's fault. Even if I go out there and throw a bunch of interceptions, it's never just truly one person's fault.

And so.

Yeah. Don't take the easy and cheap way out.

This is about us and it's about us backing him up and backing one another up and we'll have to show it.

He remains the best quarterback arguably ever at the podium. Always says the right things, whether he believes it, I'll take his word for it. Whether I believe it, I don't. I do think you get to a point where his career, you have to consider his When he retires and you're thinking about Hall of Fame votes and he'll get them, you've got to consider what he was surrounded with because he has put up some fairly prodigious numbers. And I think in the current situation, he's not getting the kind of help from the staff he's earned.

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Three-time national champ, three-time national coach of the year. He and Big Noon kicked off live from West Point in honor of Veterans Day, which I had the great fortune to be at about 12 years ago. I think it was about 12 years ago. It's an unbelievable place. Unbelievable. Urban Meyer is now joining us live. It's an unbelievable weekend coming up. Have you been to West Point, Coach?

Have you ever been there? Yeah, Coach Munkin's a dear friend.

I've actually talked to the team a couple of times, been there on the tour with my son. My father's Army, not West Point, but I've been to a handful of Army Navy games. I can't get enough. I mean, if you're having a bad day, go visit West Point, go visit one of our academies.

And you know what?

We're still in the greatest country bar none being around those people.

Oh, it's, it's incredible in the fall. It's just, it is just a magnificent environment. Okay. What surprised you most about USC's performance in the wind kind of convincingly against Ohio state?

Lincoln Riley, I've known him a long time, a lot of respect. But after the Wisconsin game, I thought it was over. I thought that was awful. They had seven points, the worst of Lincoln Riley's career. But they got beat up across the board at Wisconsin. And Wisconsin's good, but not great. I'm most impressed with Lincoln Riley and that staff to get that team to play like that. They were outstanding. The environment was good. The players played hard.

They were outgained and outplayed in a lot of areas.

Yeah.

That's got to be you got to give that everything else falls on the head coach that falls on the head coach.

I mean, I'm I'm watching these highlights. I mean, you mostly the receiver and Bowman. I mean, they're like that's like seven on seven stuff. I don't remember the Buckeyes giving up explosives like that. I mean, there's just nobody around. Yeah.

I think the most yard, the biggest play they give up all year is 36, but rarely do you see if ever against a quality defense that runs the ball, someone simply run right through the defense and that happened twice. So I'm sure they'll get that fixed, but of all the, you know, the quarterback, this, the quarterback, that 15 penalties that alarmed me when I saw someone run right through the defense without.

That didn't get touched. He did not get touched. I'm not sure I've seen that touched. Um, I think Fahey's good enough. I think this was a baptism by fire. I think it was a, It was an internship and a very intense company. I think the kid's going to be fine. I think they're going to have to, I think stylistically change how they play a little bit. I think Notre Dame's okay. I mean, listen, if you got to start a game, you might as well start against a backed into a corner, wounded USC. You're not going to play anybody in your schedule going in that may, the environment was pretty rough. Are they good enough at quarterback now to win going for the rest of the season?

He's not a good enough player yet to go win that game, and that's what he had to do against USC. I put that all on, and I talked to a guy on the staff today, not Coach Day, but someone else, that they thought he graded a winning performance. He played well enough to win for a first start on the road in the driving rainstorm, in a rain at USC.

15 penalties, four in the red zone. And your defense gave up two big shots like that. So he's, he's going to be good enough to win, but the other has got to really play.

Well around them.

He's not good enough right now to go win a game.

Yeah. I thought he was a little overwhelmed in the red zone where he got, you know, just not quite ready to go. But overall, I think he, I mean, that's, that's a great, I mean, I think he's a pretty talented kid. The, you know, it's funny about watching that game. After the game, Lincoln had kind of a prepared statement, and I always had kind of a rule, be humble and gracious in victory. If you want to have a little attitude, do it after a loss where you get riled up. I didn't think that was the space for it.

What did you make of that? I just don't like that.

I think, Oh, if I was the AD, I'd put my, but he's been through, you know, he's been getting it, get a locker room, close the door and celebrate. I think this day and age, Colin, for some reason, there's phones in the locker room. There's coaches talking a lot. I just have always been the guy close the locker room, close the door, get everyone out of here, put your phones away. That's our sanctuary. What do you see the media?

I'm just not a big fan of that. Just go, go get with your team and enjoy that win.

Yeah.

Okay. I watched Indiana who USC plays in two weeks. USC gets a buy before they play them. Indiana is a lot like Ohio state. Not great today. Great coach, not great quarterback play. Currently two excellent receivers of their D line will push around if you let them. But right now, currently as it stands, Indiana at quarterback and Ohio state at quarterback are not dynamic at What do you make of India? I thought Minnesota outplayed them. I watched every snap. I thought Minnesota should have won the game.

Did that surprise you? No, because we had Indiana three weeks in a row. We did Nebraska. Nebraska outplayed them up and down the field until near the end of the game. You had Ohio State beat them, but both teams didn't look great that day.

And then we had them. Who was the third game against? The Wolverines, and they looked very average.

Defense is... Very, very good.

I'll tell you, Charlie Becker, because of Jeremiah Smith, he's not getting enough recognition. He's the best clutch player in college football right now. I mean, when in doubt, throw it.

To that kid. How about Minnesota? It's a 60-yard field goal. I know.

I think I heard Cignetti told the quarterback, Wilson, the backup quarterback, throw it to Becker.

It doesn't matter. And he did.

It's double covered and the kid made the play. He is a phenomenal football player. And the score is in the first play overtime.

He wore out Minnesota's corners. He just wore them out. So I watched, listen, these are kids. Miami goes on the road. Belichick's kind of got it right. North Carolina. I mean, to go either way game, Miami's got the better quarterback. So they win that game. You know, it's a couple of plays here or there. Now Miami is, goes to Notre Dame, Notre Dame has to win. If Notre Dame loses to BYU and their toughest game, Miami, they're not going to play off. Miami's got a little margin for error here. I think it's a tough spot for Miami. I do. I mean, did you ever go into a game on the road coach? You knew urban.

You're like, boy, this, this, this has this, this could be a rough outing. You just kind of know it is the, it is a super bowl for them. I think you know me well enough.

I felt every damn game like that on the road, but here I got Notre Dame, Miami, Utah, and UCLA. They have yet to be in that street fight. So the college football playoff committee is going to get tomorrow. And I think it's a fault, you know, it's not their fault, but they're asked to do a chore. That's you can't be right. What 12 teams are you going to pick? I just told you four of those teams.

You have yet to see the best version of themselves. So yeah, I think Notre Dame is up against the wall. If they lose to BYU, And you can't even say that's talent equated. Notre Dame's got far better players than BYU. Then they're going to face Miami is the only game on that schedule where you look across the field and say, you know what?

They got what we got. That's it.

So if they lose this game, you're right. I don't see them making it. But I'll tell you what, Miami. I love their, I think Malachi Tony's other than Jeremiah Smith. I think he's one, two in the Heisman. I think he's, some could argue maybe better at times, but Miami has yet to look their best version themselves either. I've watched a lot of their film. I think their coach is excellent.

I think their player, I just have not seen the best version themselves. I'm going to throw this at you real fast. Colin is that Georgia LSU and Bama, their best version is better than everybody else. When they're playing their very best, they're better than the other teams.

I agree with George. I think George is really good. I would say Miami 1, Georgia 2 right now. I think George is a really, really good football team. They have a great coach. By the way, Kirby Smart said something this weekend. He said, you know, it's just not the same. Not everybody, you know, guys are getting hurt now.

We used to practice harder than we practice now. What do you make of that? I don't know what to make of that.

Only Kirby would, you know, that's, I, I, I've heard that behind closed doors a bunch.

I've heard that on a phone calls.

It's like, I'm the, I'm the coach of some of my friends call me and just bitch nonstop about stuff. And yeah, that's one of them that there's, there's interest going this way instead of used to be this way.

Right.

You know, I don't know if that's all true, but Kirby, when he said that guys are getting hurt more now than before, we don't practice nearly. I've heard that they don't, Most teams don't practice near like they used to be.

Could some of that be? Listen, the bottom line is. Not everybody loves football. I mean, Tony Gonzalez, the Hall of Fame tight end, I asked him one time, how many guys in the locker room love football? He said 3%. I thought that was low. But the point, Tom Brady loved football, was obsessed with it. Not a lot of guys are obsessed with it. And now you're making a little scratch. You've been dinged up. You're probably not an NFL guy. And you're like, listen, I'm not going to play through an injury at practice. I'm taking the practice.

What if it's just that guy saying, I'm not practicing hurt. I'm not playing on Sundays anyway.

Yeah, there was a day where the player, everything was about increasing their value.

Now there's already value.

And some are already playing with a higher value than they will at the next level.

There's a lot of players.

Someone told me it's like 60% of the players getting paid now in college will never make that in the NFL, which is an amazing stat.

Yeah. Here is the, it's been back to back to back Saturday nights. Can't turn the TV off. Here are the games this weekend. UCLA at Minnesota, upset alert. Upset alert. I'm going to take Minnesota in an upset. BYU to Utah is always great. Texas, watch out. Bama LSU, obviously. Kalen DeBoer against Lane. Oregon at Ohio State. Oregon feels like they've kind of righted it a little. Ohio State's going to be in a really bad mood. Kentucky, Tennessee.

That'll be fan. That may be the game of the weekend. Miami. No, no, no. Miami. Notre Dame will be a Georgia at Ole Miss Trinidad Chambliss. That'll be fine. That's as good as that's as good. I look at that and I think UCLA is in a little bit of upset alert. If I said to you, look at this slate of games, pick one that will shock me. What, what's the shocker? I would say Missouri, Texas.

I think Missouri is a, is a hard, hard place to play. I think there's a feeling amongst players are playing Missouri and that's not the same as playing Alabama, Auburn, et cetera, et cetera.

And they got really good players are really good. Well coach.

So the one that other than Minnesota, UCLA, cause I've seen Minnesota up close and personal and I've been at Minnesota. That's a tough place to play, but I, I think Texas is walking into a dog fight in Missouri.

Yeah.

So finally, you didn't lose a lot of games at Ohio State. Let me let me look this up just for fun.

Hold on.

Yeah, you were 83 and nine at Ohio State. That's pretty. You didn't lose a lot of games. So when you do lose at Ohio State in the regular season and you're in that fishbowl, how miserable of an experience is it?

It's hard to put a word on. It takes months to get over it. The city shuts down. The Ohio State fans are out of their damn minds and people sit calm.

What's the term they're using? Lunatic fringe? Yeah, yeah.

And I always defend, you know why I defend them? Because I've also coached at places where it just didn't mean that much. I'd much rather be at a place, you know what? I'll give you everything you got to go in, go in. So yeah, the fans will rally back though. They'll rally back. But yeah, there's a, that's a pissed off crew at state of Ohio, man. They all follow the Buckeyes. We had nine losses. I could tell you every one of those losses.

Well, Buckeye fan is saying we're six and four in our last 10 games. And my take is, well, you're playing a lot. You know, here's what's happened. Urban Ohio state fan has been conditioned to Same with Georgia fan conditioned to believe. All right, I'll give you one loss. It's like, guys, now you got USC in the conference, Oregon in the conference, UCLA. Now's good. And now Indiana is a power. So college fans at the powerhouses like Bama, Georgia, you know, they've been conditioned. We get one loss a year.

Maybe it's like, guys, the world's changed. The middle of the, I mean, Iowa is, just handed somebody a disease, just beat the, you know, what out of, I thought was a pretty good football team. I don't think fans, I think they, especially Buckeye fan, Georgia fan, Notre Dame, Miami fan, the days are running the table are over. In fact, I think the days of one loss are over mostly over.

You'll have to be Indiana was, I mean, they could have lost five games last year, but you know, so, I mean, if you were coaching today, I'd say urban, I love you, but you're, you're losing two games. Yeah, I agree.

The new normal, I think we're going to see at some point a three-loss national champ.

I really do. Yeah, so do I.

Because I think parity is across our sport, and I don't see it going anywhere.

Yeah.

I'll tell you, as a consumer, I've never had more fun watching college football. I know it. That's great. Yeah. All right. Hey, enjoy West Point with the crew. That is an all-time place, and thanks for coming on. Good to see you, Colin.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, you get conditioned. Like that's why everybody gets upset about the playoff. Well, this is the one sport with the regular season matters. Well, you ever watch the ratings for the NFL or the English premier league? You don't think their regular seasons matter. Of course they do. Of course they do. So like, like NFL, I think it's 40% of the teams, 14 out of 32 is about 40% make the, make the playoffs. 40%. What's the percent?

Even with a 2014 playoff, there's 130 D1s. I mean, let's just go to the power conferences. Let's go ACC, Big 12, Big 10, SEC. Just go to those four conferences, add up the teams, and 24 will make it in. That's about online with the NBA, baseball, NFL, hockey, in terms of number of playoff teams. It's just... you know, if you just go, what are the big four, what are the big four conferences? Don't count, don't count everybody.

Just the big four. So you got 16 here, 16, 32. I think you're about 80 something. So you're going to have 24 out of like 80 ish, 75 ish. I'm top of my head. That's right in line with every other pro league in the country. And if you like the NBA, you watch the regular season. I mean, if you like hockey, you're watching in Canada on Saturday night, regardless of who's making the playoffs or not. So I don't buy the 24 is too many teams. All I know is if the product is good in any industry, could be a bakery, could be college football. If the product's good, people will drive crosstown to watch it. Even if you open up a bigger place and it loses its charm. I mean, I'm sorry, but the Arch Manning,

Texas story, you're not going to watch if it's tied 17, 17, third quarter, Texas at Missouri, you're not watching it. Well, I mean, you know, that may make the playoff as many teams like, like Texas can't lose another game and make the playoff, right? You could argue now it's too late. You kind of watch the rest of Texas games. You can't, as a Texas fan, you can't just say a Saturday night, I'm going to go dancing. Sorry. Can't do it. Ohio state can't lose another game. Can't lose another game. J Mac with the news.

No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news.

This is the Herdline News. I'm going to go dancing. That's a classic line from Cowherd. I didn't know that was a thing.

I felt like it was a throwback to the Kevin Bacon movie, Footloose.

Great stuff from you, Cowherd.

Also great stuff from Joe Burrow on Sunday against the Titans.

I mean, give me a break. Burrow did have a monster game.

Six total touchdowns, 400 billion yards throwing. But they needed overtime. Colin, I had them in Survivor this week. They were 13 and a half point favorites.

All you got to do is win.

And I had like a headache for an hour after this match. Obviously, there's a lot of cheddar at stake. Here's Joe Burrow on surviving lowly Tennessee.

We found a way to win today.

You know, we're five and two. We lose that game for the last three years. And like I said, it's hard to win. Obviously, you want to be great, snap in, snap out. That's not the reality of it. You learn from all your wins and your losses and every good play and every bad play. And that's what the NFL is.

That's what getting better is. And we'll just continue to do it. The Raiders, Jets, the Titans, the Bengals. Would you have guessed on Sunday morning those would be the two shootouts? Cam Ward, Geno, Burrow, Kirk Cousins. Those games were wildly entertaining.

So the Bengals came out of their bye last week and were down 13-0 to Snoop Huntley at halftime. They come out after that game, you know, the awesome second half. They were down at home 13-0 to Cam Ward. Colin, I'm sorry, but if you're a coach... and you're consistently struggling in September and in the first quarter, what does that tell you? Your game plans stink. Like he's not, Zach Taylor is holding these guys back.

I don't know.

I mean, listen, I want to think that this Bengals team, the model has them as like a top five statistical team.

I don't know if they're good. Are they good?

Well, I wouldn't want to play them in the playoffs. Well, why is that?

You have a coaching advantage, clearly.

Listen, first of all, nobody, almost nobody in the league can afford to have two good corners. They have two number one receivers and a great quarterback. And it feels like, you know, I still think they're in the Jonathan Taylor sweepstakes. Honestly, if you put Jonathan Taylor on that. and let get Burrow more of a run game, because Chase Brown's good.

probably a one, a not a one. I, I don't know.

I just, all I know is cheapest team ever.

The owners of cheapskate, but they spent money this off season with Dexter Lawrence. So my, my belief was Cincinnati is there are teams that you just don't, I'd love to play the Steelers in the playoffs. I prepare for Jalen Warren, but there are other teams that are underdogs. I want to play, you know, what if I'm a dome team in the AFC, right? And I'm like, oh, I'll give Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase, and, you know, T.

Higgins a fast track. Like, I don't know. They're a handful. Okay.

So they go to Spain. I'm pretty sure it's Madrid this week. Spain, beautiful country. to face Atlanta, which is coming off getting shut out. Now, what's weird is the week after Spain, they have a huge divisional matchup with the Steelers, who they lost to. I want to lay the lumber against Atlanta, which, oh my God, Jekyll and Hyde team. But I don't, you know those divisional matchups are huge in that division.

You know, I just thought of something. There isn't a dome, is there a dome team in the AFC that just popped into my head? Is there?

Well, the Indianapolis Colts, but they still.

Okay, yeah, okay. I'm just, isn't a dome team.

The SoFi is kind of a dome. I mean, it's open air.

Yeah, my bad. Yeah, I just, again, Burrow, two great receivers, offensive coach, rather not play him in the postseason. There's a lot of teams I could say, okay, I'll deal with even Josh Allen. I can score on them. They're bad on the back. Jacksonville, how many big wins do they have as a franchise in the last decade? I have burrow. I had no interest facing that offense.

Dexter Lawrence had a huge sack there.

A big play. I see Bengals fans clamoring for Zach Vaughn. They want to trade for the Eagles linebacker.

This team cannot guard running backs out of the backfield.

Tony Pollard.

Look like fricking Emmitt Smith out there. I mean, it was, it was crazy. Anyway, thank you Bengals for keeping my survivor streak alive. Let's go to the Tampa Bay Atlanta game.

One of the wackiest games in the last 50 years because Baker Mayfield did not complete a pass over three for the game. And they still won 16, nothing. The game was played in a monsoon. Somehow Atlanta didn't realize it was raining, Colin.

I don't know.

Because they kept having Michael Penix throw the ball. He threw three picks in the first half. Baker Mayfield threw fewer passes than Penix threw interceptions.

Please, make it make sense. I don't know what Atlanta's doing.

Ever. Well, young quarterbacks, Drake May is an example of this, tend to be up and down. So Penix was down. So first quarterbacks, Your first 25 starts, first 20 starts as a pro, you're going to be all over the map. Even the ones we like, Drake May. It was one of those Sundays. undeterred he kept throwing it downfield it wasn't any good but he's not somebody that shut it down.

So i'm okay okay michael the question is for stefanski why were you throwing the ball in a driving rainstorm repeatedly you have bijan robinson who's you know a decent running back bucky bucky irving had like a buck 80 on the ground yeah kenneth gainwell the backup had like 115 Colin, some of these coaches, man. Listen, I know it's not easy in the heat of the moment. I coach youth sports.

It's hard.

NFL must be impossible. But watching this was just befuddling. I don't know what Atlanta has ever done.

Final story, let's go.

To Monday Night Football.

The big one tonight, Zach Charbonnet officially a go. He's returning from the ACL injury. First game, I don't know how he's going to be. I didn't start him in fantasy. But Jadarian Price is the big question mark. Now we're still waiting to see if he's going to be active tonight. Obviously they need.

A run game.

We know what the bears are going to do, right? This is going to be Caleb Williams, uh, D uh, Swift. I don't think, I think my nun guy's out. So it'll be Roshan Johnson. They're going to just try to run the ball and play keep away. And I would guess they're going to pressure Sam Darnold a lot. I'm going to go, I'm going to lean under and bears here.

Um, your thoughts.

Yeah, this is a spot I like. Seattle, third straight primetime game. Yeah, I think the Bears, to me, would be the play. Now it's like the number's a little larger than I'd be comfortable with, but I think the Bears are the play.

I do worry about JSN.

I think at some point a smart defensive coordinator is going to say, you know what, I don't care if we get gashed for 200 yards.

On the ground.

I'm not letting JSN go nuts and just break off big play after big play. Because that season opener against the Patriots, they bottled up JSN. He catches a fourth down pass and goes 40 yards for the touchdown. And the game flipped. I mean, he will flip the game. So I think you just try to remove him from the equation and say anyone else.

Who's their second best skill position back home? Exactly. They don't have anybody.

Well, I would say Cooper Cup's a good third down receiver. I think their second best is Darnold. Third best is probably Charbonnet, fourth best, or Price. I haven't seen him.

Shahid Shahid is, you know, fine.

Yeah, he's more of a gadget guy. But he is, I will say this, you can put him in the backfield, kick returns. So, Shahid. I mean, again, do they need another receiver? They'll address that. I would argue. You know, if you get Price and Charbonnet may play tonight, and if they're inefficient or don't help Darnold, do you go look at Jonathan Taylor? So I haven't seen enough of Price to have a substantial, defiant opinion. I just want to watch tonight.

If the Bears win, what is your giddiness level tomorrow?

I mean, it's going to be through the roof. I love both these teams.

I know, but you're a Bears. Come on, you're a Bears homer now.

No, it's just... When you're a journalist, everybody's the same.

By the way, are you going to go to Notre Dame, Miami? I know you said it's like a six iron away from your house or something.

I am busy this weekend. A lot of things planned.

Raking some leaves or something?

Among other things, yes. Jay Mack with the news. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. I did this earlier. When you get one of these classic games, and we felt it last year. Remember when the Seahawks played the Rams last year? There was kind of a sense like, man, are we watching a... These are the two best teams in football. And we were kind of right when you watched the Seahawks take apart New England in the Super Bowl.

And there's a handful of really good rosters that have really good coaches. I mean, I think Denver does. I think Seattle does. I think Chicago does. I worry about Buffalo's secondary. I think I'd make a move at the trade deadline if I was Buffalo. I mean, this this this Josh Allen window, man, I wouldn't wait. I would go make a move. You still got a week trade deadlines, I think, next Tuesday.

Right.

So you got a week. But I asked Matt Hasselbeck about Bears Seahawks. What does he expect tonight?

The bears lose this game. They're all of a sudden last place in their division somehow. And then they win, they win because they've got such a great division that they win this game. Now people are saying, wow, they just went to Seattle, a team that's one of the best in football the last couple of years.

I mean, wow.

Look, look, look at the trajectory that we're on. So this is an enormous game tonight. And you know, I want to say it's a chess match, but like, I don't think it's a chess match. I think this is old school. You know what our plan is. We know what your plan is. sprinkled in with some trick plays probably because it's Ben Johnson, but it should be a fun one.

Okay. And, and, and I, when you get these games, I said, let's put down the 10 best players in this game. And it's what's remarkable is the four or five guys that didn't make the list like Byron Murphy, Colston Loveland. I mean, there's so many good players. I think Jackson Smith and Jigma on any Sunday, uh, is the best offensive player in the league. I think he's that good. Jeffrey Simmons is the best defensive lineman in the league. I think Caleb is a next to Josh Allen is plays the game differently than anybody else at his position. Devin Witherspoon. is an old school tough guy that'll mix it up with anybody in the NFL at corner.

Quentin Nelson comes over eight pro bowls. He's been great from his first start for the Colts on walked out of Notre Dame and mash people as a rookie. Nick Amanwari is the South Carolina kid. They picked him in the second round and I feel like he's gained 15, but he was tough as a rookie. I feel like he's bigger now and, and they use him brilliantly. They run support blitzing. I mean, they use him differently than almost any other safety in recent memories been used Darnell, right?

Ryan poles, who was a former offensive lineman nailed this pick Darnell rights, a pro bowl, right? Tackle a Leonard Williams, uh, Dude, that guy, I don't know how many years, former Trojan, how many years he's been in the NFL. He doesn't get hurt. Remains one of the few interior D linemen that can get after a quarterback slinging Sammy Darnold. Yeah, I know the picks. He's really good. Luther burden leads.

You know, he's the Missouri kid, you know, slot guy. They move all over the field, leads the bears in almost everything. I would probably do Byron Murphy would be 11, the Seahawk defensive tackle. Probably do Joe Tooney, 12, Bears interior lineman, Colston Loveland, 13. I haven't gone to PFF. DeMarcus Lawrence has to be top 15, doesn't he? Is he having a good year? Almost everybody for Seattle is having a good year. So, I mean, DeMarcus Lawrence, isn't it crazy? He was at Dallas, and I liked him a lot at Dallas. And then I'm like, well, that's a good career. I thought he was better last year than he was six years ago in Dallas. Like, I don't even understand. Like, that's what coaching does. I mean,

DeMarcus Lawrence has obviously– put an incredible amount of effort and time into his game because he is a rare down defensive lineman who just doesn't age. And that, I mean, you see guys like Chris Jones, a great player, and you can see the cliff and you can see guys fall. I mean, Aaron Donald's not the same. Now he retired for a year. DeMarcus Lawrence has is great. So I I'm going to take the bears 27, uh, 23, uh, bears 27, 23, not as much scoring as you think a lot of it between the thirties, uh, you know, Charbonnet and price may both play for Seattle. Keep your eye on that. Rashid Shaheed could make an impact. Special teams whiz for the Seahawks. J Mac, what you got?

What's your score?

I will go super low scoring 21, 20. Ooh, give me the bears in a, in a fun one. I'm I also have a rooting interest in Swift. I need like seven points in fantasy. I just, I think the Seahawks are a little overvalued off the win over the chiefs.

Yeah.

Um, and I do think the bears might be the best team in the NFC.

I hate, I mean, I can't believe you're ready to record a Jacob.

Although Hasselbeck had a great point.

They fall.

Is it last place with a loss here? That's crazy.

That's just insanity. Well, they had to start backups three games. So, I mean, they were in it. That's right.

That's right. The backup quarterback.

So, 21-20 is low scoring.

Well, again, we're talking about a limited Sam Darnold. He's just not a great quarterback. Look at against Kansas City. They couldn't do anything. I know he's your hero and you got posters of him.

J-Mac, run game.

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