The Prelim Podcast I Episode 19 — LaVerne Caracuzzi-Milazzo

0:05 Alright, here we are again. So we're back on the Prelimb Podcast today. Pablo is not here again. He's at work. He is on fire, getting a lot of work, so that's good. We encourage work here on the Prelimb Podcast. But uh today it's just me and my guest, our guest, and our guest is the first one on the show, uh first department.

0:24 We have a makeup representative, which is awesome. Uh we have uh she's been in the business for many, many years. Uh started commercials, music videos, TV, movies, basically anybody who needs makeup. Uh we have right here on the show. We have today Laverne Malazzo Karacuzzi. Karacuzzi Malazzo. Okay, uh see I'd dyslexic.

0:50 Fuck that. I can't say that like three times. This is embarrassing. Okay, close. Okay, but we'll let you say it properly.

0:57 It's Laverne Karacuzzi Malazzo. So you got both of them right. You just switched them.

1:02 That's my whole life story. That's okay. That's okay. Right. Human. Human with dyslexia. That was a hard part as a camera loader, but that's a different story. So let's talk about you. Okay. You are an original Los Angeles resident. You grew up here in Los Angeles?

1:19 I did. Um, I grew up in Hancock Park, so near Larchemont. Um, and then our family moved as I started to get older. We moved to the valley. Um, anyway, moved to uh we moved to Burbank and then we sold the Burbank house and moved to Toluca Lake, of which I still own that property. Um, that's a rental property.

1:45 But yes, I did grow up in Hancock Park.

1:48 And I heard a story that it was your childhood that got you kind of interested in the makeup department. I mean, obviously every young little girl plays with makeup, but you took it to the next level, a career.

1:59 I did.

1:59 Tell us that story.

2:01 Well, oddly enough, when I was a child, um my elementary school was Van S Elementary on Van S in Hollywood. And um there were producers that were looking for some children to do commercials. And so I was in front of the camera instead? Yes. Whoa. They came to Van S Elementary and um I did Libby's commercials when I was younger.

2:30 Um, and then, you know, at that type of age, you don't really know what you want to do. You might, you know, think to yourself, oh, I think this is what I want to do, but I'm not sure. So I just ended up going ahead and I did Libby's commercials when I was little.

2:48 So you're saying that in my introduction, I forgot to mention that you were a child actress.

2:55 No, I wouldn't go as far as that. Okay. I would say I did a spot or two for Libby's. Okay. Um, and uh makeup was not really on the spec, you know, was on my radar, so to speak. Um, we when we lived in Burbank, when we moved from Hancock Park to Burbank, there was a woman who would do uh painting out of her garage.

3:22 And so as a child, I would take my little box and I'd walk from the house and go and and paint. So I was always definitely involved in the arts in one capacity or another. Um, so I painted from a very young age, of which I still kind of do. Um, when I got into say junior high and high school, I ended up going ahead and still doing more art type things.

3:47 I actually got a um scholarship or a partial scholarship, which then took me to college from when I was in high school based on these portfolios that we had to put together.

4:02 Nice. Nice uh painting for for drawing, painting.

4:06 Basically, the the portfolios were a mix of different mediums. And then you had to do one project that was three-dimensional, you had to do two-dimensional, you had to do um, you know, just different areas of it, and then you put it together in a portfolio. Then the portfolio goes out to whoever that might be.

4:30 And then based off of that, I got a partial scholarship to go to college.

4:36 Nice, nice. So uh your family was supportive uh being in the in the arts, or that your direction down the road of studying was gonna go more toward toward that. They were all cool with it?

4:49 I definitely grew up in a household where my parents were whatever it is that your passion is, um, as long as you've got a job. So they weren't too judgy or pushing me in one direction or another. I know there are people out there that their parents go, oh, well, you have to go wherever the money is.

5:10 Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't make money in the arts. So my parents were never pushy. It's just whatever it was that I wanted to do, they were happy that I was working.

5:22 That's great. That's important, supportive parents.

5:25 Absolutely.

5:25 Yeah, my parents are like that as well. Um so after college, college was great. What happens? Now you're now you gotta make money.

5:35 Exactly. Okay, so I um ended up going to I lived in London for five and a half years. I went to college there. Um fun fact, I have also a degree in fashion design. So I have a Bachelor of Arts degree in fashion design. Initially, that was the avenue that I wanted to go down. Oh I was very fortunate to meet um Emilio Pucci, who is very now known for Pucci print.

6:08 Um, he's since his past, but he was an Italian fashion designer. I met him when I was in London, and he had offered for me to go ahead and come and work in retail in his store in Florence. But, you know, when you're in your early 20s, you're thinking to yourself, do I really want to go ahead and work in retail?

6:30 Silly me, not knowing that it could go ahead and lead to bigger and better things. But anyway, so um I came back, I graduated um in London, came back to Los Angeles, um, and I started out in commercials. Um, I got a phone call, and this is doing makeup. I got a phone call from a friend of ours who let me back up.

6:59 So a friend of mine that I went to high school with, his sister was a makeup artist who lived in New York, and she was coming to Los Angeles to go ahead and do some commercials. And they thought, oh, well, we'll just go ahead and call Over, and she would be great to go ahead and work with, you know, my sister.

7:20 So I worked with his sister for quite some time on a lot of commercials. And then it just happened to be one commercial, she was having an overlap and said, I feel super confident that you could go ahead and, you know, do this project on your own and department head a commercial, which department heading in a commercial is very, very different than it is in movies or television.

7:48 And how so is that because when you do movies and TV, you're reading a script. You take the script, you break the script down, and it's not just maybe a day, a two or three that you would normally do on a commercial. It's a lot more um using your brain, so to speak. You get the script, you're gonna get revised pages, you're gonna go through those pages, you have to break the script down, mark off anything that might be specific.

8:24 Um, you deal with different days, different nights. Sometimes you might work on a project which takes place in one day and one night, so you have to follow that continuity. Um, usually in commercials, there's not much. I shouldn't say not much, there really isn't continuity. It's you do your makeup job, and that's it.

8:47 You don't have a script that you're going off of like you do in television or features.

8:51 Right, right. Yeah. Okay. So uh back in the 90s, is this commercial time? Yes. And it was booming back then.

9:02 Oh yeah.

9:02 Yeah. I mean, that's kind of when commercials did have little mini stories to it and and all that. Um any bigger directors that went to that you worked with in commercials and because back then people were doing it.

9:17 I worked with one company for quite some time, Radical Media. Okay. And I worked with uh a director, Dick Sittig, and that was right at the time that they were revamping the whole label and the whole menus and whatever for Jack in the Box. So I did probably, I would say, a hundred to a hundred and fifty spots doing the Jack in the Box commercials.

9:41 And those were unique, right? They were. They were. And why were they unique? They were unique in the sense where you had Jack, who was a puppeteer inside this giant head, but then you also had different supporting cast who then kind of made the whole story complete.

10:05 Kind of hard to put on makeup on Jack, right?

10:07 Exactly. It was very interesting, this giant head with all the mechanisms in the inside, and it even had a little fan in the inside of the head.

10:16 Wasn't he the agency and the the person that was playing Jack, right? Or did that happen?

10:24 When it first started, we actually had a puppeteer.

10:27 Oh.

10:28 And then I don't know at what point. I think after I quote unquote graduated and moved from commercials to television, it became I think my understanding is now um Dick is also the voice of Jack.

10:45 Yeah, I think he became everything in the world. Exactly.

10:48 Yeah, exactly.

10:49 Um all right. Well, that's cool. So you graduated from commercials to you went to straight to you went into TV episodic after So I was doing commercials for quite some time.

11:00 And then um, but during that period of time, I was also work when Los Angeles had a lot more movies here. Um, I was working on a movie with a very dear friend of mine who was also my mentor. Um and but at that time, she and I were day playing together. And I remember this moment in time of she and I, we were shooting, I can't remember what movie it was, but she and I were brought in as day players.

11:29 And we were shooting, I think maybe at the Los Angeles courthouse. We were sitting on the stairs and we started talking and got to know one another. And, you know, that that movie ended. And I was at home one day and she called me and said, Hey, I've got this uh television show, and I was thinking to go ahead and bring you in as my key.

11:55 And I said, I have to be very honest with you. I would love to, however, I'm pregnant. And that's when I was pregnant with my first daughter. And because she has three children of her own, she said, that's not gonna be an issue. We'll work it out. So she ended up going ahead and hiring me. I was her key on a television show called Freaks and Geeks.

12:20 Now, what does a key do over the lead? You have the leader.

12:23 Okay, so you have the department head, uh, you have a key, and then makeup artists for lack of better words. Um so the department head basically is how it's said, they run the department. So production will hire them. They then go ahead and hire their key. Their key is like their right, their right arm.

12:46 Okay, yeah.

12:47 So you uh you work together very closely. In my opinion, I think there's a lot more um uh there's a lot more work, so to speak, as a key than there is as the department head. Not to say that a department head doesn't do a lot of work, but when I was a key, and maybe it's different now, but when I was a key, it was you, you know, you're responsible for putting the continuity books together when there was not going ahead and putting them into an app.

13:23 I still run my departments very old school. I always have a continuity book with the script in it because a lot of times you're on a location where you don't have service and you don't have time to get online to figure it out. You've got to answer it, you've got to figure it out at that moment in time.

13:42 So you've got your script, you've got your pictures, and you just flip through it, and it's easier to navigate than it would be trying to go ahead and wait for the internet to come back on because a lot of times you're not in a studio, you're on location, so those type of things. But anyway, so as a key, my responsibility is where I was responsible for the continuity book.

14:08 Um, and it's very important, in my opinion, as a key to be 10 steps ahead of the department head. So the department head, it's almost you're two different people, but you're one brain. So you have to be thinking that much more ahead so that the responsibilities that they have with production, going to production meetings, um, all of those other little intricate things that maybe you don't see in front of a camera, the department head is taken care of.

14:44 That's right. That's a good point. Because I would imagine the well, obviously, the key is on set, and then the department head would be at a meeting for next week's episode where everything gets talked about, and then you get that information at a certain point. But you're having to take care of what's happening right now, the filming of this week's episode.

15:03 Yes. Um, but a department head also is involved in that side of it too. So it's not as if just the key and the and other makeup artists go to set. The department heads do too. And there's a delegation of it's kind of a, I don't know, for lack of better words, a written rule, so to speak. If you're the department head, you usually do cast members one.

15:29 Okay.

15:29 You know, you you'll obviously do other people, but it kind of is that way. If you run the department, you usually do number one on a call sheet and your key. I usually do it where it's like if I run the department, I do one, my key will do two. You know, we kind of go down the line. Um and now, okay.

15:52 Have you been in situations, not no names, but have you been in situations where you're like, I don't want to do number one, please. You take number one.

15:59 Or uh it has definitely come about. Um, but part of being a department head is to deal with it and be a strong individual and just be very professional about it. Um people find that over time, even though you might go, oh my gosh, this person seems like they're gonna be a lot. If you just go ahead and you stay strong and you stay positive and they can believe in you and you can believe in them, you manage to work it out.

16:40 So I've never really been in this situation where I've said, okay, I'm not gonna do this person because they seem like they might be a handful. I think you should do them. I just you almost have to read the room.

16:54 Right. Because you get a different person in the chair than we get a person on the set. Absolutely. I mean, you're kind of like their therapist in a way. I would imagine a lot of time spent in the chairs listening and well, I always look at it like this.

17:12 We're the first person that they see. So if you're coming in and you have a bad attitude or whatever it is that's going on in your personal life, you have to uh push that aside and just deal with what it is that you need to deal with at that point in time.

17:34 I mean, it's work.

17:35 Exactly.

17:36 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I mean yeah, it's I mean, you guys see a whole different side of the talent than we do, you know. And you guys definitely have a, you know, you're spending so much time together, a bonding moment, I would imagine. Like you all get pretty close, or some shows they're just distant and you don't get that type of relationship.

17:57 But sometimes I would imagine you guys get really close.

18:01 Well, and it's interesting because uh everybody kind of refers to the makeup and hair trailer where they can get the most information from because it's a very, like you said, it's a very intimate situation. You're in somebody's face for, you know, eight, 10, 12, 14, sometimes 16 hours. And in my, you know, gone are the days of 24 episodes in television.

18:29 I know.

18:30 You know, it used to be, you know, you'd have 13 and then you'd wait right around Christmas time. And it was like, oh, am I gonna get that little Christmas bonus and get the back nine?

18:39 Right.

18:40 Now it's like, well, no, you should just be happy that you've got 10. And it's like grateful. Yes, I'm sorry. Grateful. Yeah.

18:48 No, no, no. Because I I I I I've I've heard you've you're not a a newcomer to podcasting. So I listened to another one, and you were talking about, you know, because December, it's always like for some reason, some shows only get 13 episodes, and by then, by by Christmas, you're almost done filming the 13th.

19:06 So it's like, are we gonna, are we gonna have more work when we get back from the holidays or not? Sometimes they fire people during the holidays.

19:15 Sometimes they say, I'm really sorry to tell you, but we're coming to an end at 13, and that's your Christmas gift.

19:23 Yeah. And you're like, oh, that's so sweet of we're gonna resume without you next year, but uh, or we're just not gonna, or most importantly, we're just not gonna resume at all.

19:33 So it's not that we're not asking you back, it's just the studio has not decided to move forward with the additional back nine or nine episodes. Either way. Or five or two.

19:47 Exactly. Yeah, like I I want to work. Like the show was great. Yeah, we I've had shows, yeah, where just Friday night, they're like, okay, this is the last one. We have one more scene to do. And we're like, why are we doing it then? Like it's not gonna go on air.

20:02 Like, right. We might as well finish before lunch so that I actually can go home and beat traffic and cry.

20:09 Exactly.

20:11 I know it's such it's a fun, fun business. And it's it's like I I I started in this business because I always wanted to. I didn't um so I'm always shocked when people fall into it, you know, but it's a really uh cutthroat kind of thank you and shut the door on the way out kind of business, you know?

20:29 Yeah, and it's definitely changed over over time for sure.

20:35 It has changed. But before we go into the changing topic, though, you're you for you, because I've been on TV shows uh with let's say uh older talent, you know, and in those situations, the the lead the uh makeup is representative, I don't know if it's the head makeup or if it's the key or what, whoever the person on set would go up to the DP and be like, uh, uh-uh, you have to relight this different, you know.

21:04 Because you are also you're kind of responsible for the on-camera look. And if it doesn't represent the client, not not a client, because you don't call them a client, but it is kind of a client. I mean, yeah, if it's not good, it's yeah, you get in trouble sometimes.

21:22 Well, it's a reflection on everybody, it's a reflection on on you as an artist, it's a reflection on um maybe the DP in the way that you know this person is lit. Because when you're older, there's certain tricks that you kind of have to go around um and treat it a little different than you would somebody who's in their twenties.

21:48 And, you know, obviously as you get older, when you're 20, your face is all nice and tight. And then as we start to get older, gravity kind of sets up.

21:57 Well, even for guys.

21:58unknown Yeah.

22:00 Here. It's not just the women that you are. I need some help here. Anyway, that's in the yeah. So okay. Um, in your cause you had your experience from working on the office, freaks and geeks, Animal Kingdom, American Homecoming, Westworld, Superstore, Spider-Manoir, Freak, I mean Freaky or Friday. I you that's a lot of that's a lot of big time actors you're working with.

22:30 Do you get to get sometimes carried over and be like you are my main person for the next 10 shows or whatever?

22:37 I have to say that I never hold my breath because I think earlier in my career there was so much where you're so great, you're so fabulous, the next one, and then the next one comes, and then you may not be the flavor of the week because of whether they production says, Oh, we need to hire this person, um, or because that actor might request somebody else, or because their their representation, whether it be their manager, their agent, their publicist, decides to go ahead and recommend somebody else.

23:18 So there's a lot of um, you just never know exactly why it may not happen. So you try not to hold your breath, but you just have to stay confident and just know that you've done the best job that you possibly can and not take it personally if you don't get invited back.

23:42 That's right, because the inner voices start talking.

23:45 Of course.

23:46 But you have to this business will eat you up if you let that happen.

23:49 Exactly.

23:50 Yeah.

23:50 So I think it's just really important just to stay positive, stay strong, and know that you're okay, whatever way it might end up turning out. Um, and you just go in with a positive attitude and do the best job that you possibly can.

24:08 And and that kind of like because in our when I started in the camera department, it was a team. You were little micro teams. Right. You stayed when this person got a job, you're like, Yes, I'm working. Unless you got spit out by the team and they didn't want you anymore or you did something horrible and you knew about it, right?

24:26 Then you'd have to find a new group of people. Same thing for you.

24:30 Yes. Um I think early on, and especially with what's going on right now, um, is you would have one core group, same type of thing, like you are discussing in terms of the camera department, where you would start a project and all of a sudden another project, you get a call for another project, and you'd panic because you would go, oh gosh, it's gonna overlap by two weeks or three weeks or whatever it happens to be.

25:00 So what you do is you usually will let somebody start the next project. You stay on that project, and then you roll over into that next project so that you're constantly working in a perfect world. In a perfect world. Yeah, yeah. And as my husband would say, especially now, he calls it gatekeeping.

25:22 Yeah, it feels like that.

25:24 Yeah, very much so.

25:25 Yeah. I'm assuming your husband's in the business.

25:29 Yes.

25:30 Did you all meet on set?

25:31 We did.

25:32 Mr. Ray Malazzo, first AC, big time to the stars. Tell us how you all met.

25:38 So Ray and I met on a um a non-union feature called Ice Cream Man.

25:47 Okay.

25:48 And it was with uh Clint Howard, Olivia Hussey, and Jan Michael Vincent.

25:54 Wow. Going back.

25:56 Yes. Um, and uh when I saw him, I thought, oh, he's a nice looking fellow. And uh, but I didn't know if he had a girlfriend or what was going on. Um, but anyway, I pursued it. And uh we've been married uh coming up to 30 years.

26:19 30 years, two kids later.

26:21 Exactly. We just actually celebrated 29 years together. Uh excuse me, 29 years married, okay, but boyfriend and girlfriend five years before that.

26:32 Wow. Okay. Excellent. All right. Well, and that's challenging because you guys are never home together, a lot along with raising kids, because as you know, in your in your line of work, you guys work sometimes the longest hours. I know PAs work a little longer than and they don't make overtime. I'm sorry about that.

26:53 But makeup, hair, wardrobe, you first one's there. Last one's out. You guys are there. How on on an average, let's just say the let's say the uh the office, even though that is half-hour show, what time would you, if call time is seven, how early do you usually have to be there at? The office was a dream job.

27:16 I know maybe that was the bad example. Sorry. Let's go to Westworld. No, quick.

27:22 Well, you know, I've I've been on shows where you end up going ahead and coming in super, super early, where, you know, the bars have just shut, but you're on your way into work. So, you know, you might have a 2 30 a.m. call time. So, you know, and crew call may not be till five o'clock in the morning.

27:44 So you're there early, you're dealing with the elements, whether you're in Los Angeles or you're shooting on location, you, you know, it might be it's obviously going to be a little bit colder in the morning. So um, yeah, the office was w doesn't really fall. Okay, then that might have been more exactly.

28:02 That's okay. That's to choose.

28:04 But I mean, yeah, you guys are, you know, depend like if it's an older actor or actress, you would be there a little longer, a little earlier. I mean, sometimes like on a TV show, what like a seven o'clock call, you're there like five, five thirty?

28:19 Well, we usually the ADs will come to us and ask us how much time it's gonna take for makeup, and then they go to the hair department and ask the hair department how long it's gonna take, and then they build that in prior to to then be able to be ready when crew comes in at whatever crew call might be.

28:36 So usually with a woman's makeup usually takes me anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour. It depends if it's you know something specialized or you might need to cover a tattoo or any of those type of things. You usually will add that on. But I will say to them, for the most part, it's anywhere between 45 to an hour, maybe less after the first day.

29:05 Come back and double check with me because once you've done them one time, it'll give you a much better gauge of the amount of time that it takes you to get them ready.

29:14 And then you you all so I in whatever order, whether they get their hair done first or sometimes you're doing the makeup first, it's one, two, two different chairs to go into. Then they come on set, you guys come on set, right? And then you do the touch-ups in between each take, or it depends.

29:34 Um, so there are ways of cutting corners sometimes. So if all of a sudden the 80s come in and say, We really need them now, um, is there a way that we can go ahead and do some of this on set? I think if you've been doing it long enough, you know that there are ways to be able to cut a corner, so to speak.

29:57 You know, you don't need to powder them prior to them going ahead and walking out the door because you've already powdered them when they're in the chair. Um, you can put their lipstick on uh during that time because you're still going to have time. Once you go to set, there still are those tweaks that lighting needs to make in order to be ready to start shooting.

30:18 It's as you know, it's not magic. You don't just walk in and they go, okay, now we're ready to shoot. I mean, yeah, that does happen sometimes in between, you know, after that first shot, so to speak, then then it's a little bit different. Um, so for the most part, it takes anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour, sometimes less.

30:40 It just depends upon how intricate the makeup is. Sometimes it's a little, um, if it's period piece, sometimes period pieces um can take a little bit longer. Sometimes it can be a little bit less. It just really depends upon who's in your chair. It also makes a huge difference if you've got a male or a female.

31:02 If a male comes in and he's supposed to be clean shaven, but he's come into the trailer and he hasn't shaved yet.

31:08 And you shave him? Or do they shave?

31:11 I I don't mind going ahead and doing it. If it's a dry shave, you throw a smock on him, you shave them. And but a lot of times, you know, they want to go back to their trailer a lot of time, you know, and do what they need to do. Um, a lot of times they will just come in done, which is great. I usually tell them, how did you come in and during your audition?

31:34 And if they say, We claim it came in clean shaven or a five o'clock shadow, or I came in with a mustache or a beard or whatever, I'm like, okay, don't sh don't do anything. Wait till you come to set. Let's double check how your look should be. Because once the hair is gone, the hair is gone.

31:55 Yeah.

31:55 Yes, we as makeup artists can lay hair, but it just doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Like let's figure out the look that we're going for.

32:04 Do nothing, stay ahead. Exactly. I think it's the is some of the lingo is taught. Um, okay, now this is kind of this is a little unfair question to you, but being a makeup representative, uh, I will accept your answer as the truth. Uh, in the camera department world, we have our carts all put on set, which is kind of close to the set, but always not.

32:27 What is the attraction with the hair and makeup chairs so close to the camera cart?

32:35 That's a really good question. For me, I respect distance, probably because I'm married to a camera person. You hear it all the time. Yeah. So I hear it all the time. Um, and also too, I respect the fact I don't this isn't because I'm married to somebody who does camera. I also respect the fact that don't take your coffee cup or your drinks or your trash or whatever and put it on the cart.

33:04 The monitors are there for you to view, not for it to be your table. If you want a table, you bring in, you either have one that's attached to your chair, you bring in a portable table, whatever it is, you put your drink on the floor. Just try to be respectful of other people's things. Space. Yeah. Exactly.

33:23 It's kind of like I get annoyed when I come in and I think to myself, okay, well, they told us that we could leave our chairs here because we're not going to be in the way. And then I go to the trailer and I come back and my chair's been moved. And I'm like, I appreciate you moving my chair. However, where did you put my chair?

33:42 Right.

33:42 Yeah.

33:43 Probably folded up and in a corner.

33:45 Yeah.

33:46 But I'm not sure.

33:46 Usually all the things in the little pouch are gone. Yeah. Yeah.

33:50unknown Yeah.

33:50 No, they're always very respectful, but it's just like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Like, where did my chair go?

33:56 It's just so funny because, you know, like uh, and I usually get a lot of I I I love hair makeup people, you know, so I don't really say much, but sometimes you're like, I I have to get to this case, and uh, am I in the way? Uh kinda, yeah.

34:10 You know, like right. I got it to get it now. Right. You're like, this case is only so big, and you're basically right on top of the monitor. And I'm about to spill your coffee.

34:18 Exactly. Yeah, that was, I'm sorry, that was a zinger. It wasn't supposed to be a zinger, but it is a question because any film set you'll see, chairs kind of next to, which is great.

34:30 We're all no, it's a very, it's a very valid question. I don't take those things personally. Like I said, even if I wasn't married to a camera person, I try to be respectful of people's things and and distance is very important.

34:46 Uh yeah, you know, it is, it is. Um let's see here. Um, movies. Yeah. Tell us how movies are different in your world compared to TV. We know in commercials it's different because you have maybe one or two days different look to deal with. TV show you could have in one day multiple different day looks, day, night, this, that party sequence.

35:09 How are movies different for you?

35:12 Movies are different in the sense where in television you have a lot bigger of a page count for the most part. In movies, you have a lesser page count.

35:25 Um and just for people that don't know what the heck that means.

35:29 Right. Well, you look at a call sheet and on that call sheet, it doesn't go in order. So you don't go day one, day two, day three. You could be shooting day one and then you're gonna do night three, and then you're gonna do night five. So that it's important to keep track of all the continuity because you don't shoot it in order.

35:59 So, with in terms of movies, your your page count. So if you're looking at a call sheet and your first scene up might be a half a page, your second scene up might be a page. And when you're looking, when you calculate all of them together, you might end up only shooting, depending upon what it is, action sequences, whatever it might be, you end up maybe shooting two, three pages, which two and three pages on a movie could still take you to a 12-hour day.

36:34 Well, at least, yeah.

36:35 You know, with television, it's definitely very fast. It's a little bit of a faster pace because you've got those episodes that you've got to get out. Usually a uh 30-minute show will take five days to shoot, and an hour show will take you eight days to shoot.

36:56 Yeah. I always found that the the half-hour shows overall were a little more relaxing. A little, not much, but I mean, they still are stressful and you gotta get the the page count in. But the hour episodic every day is kind of depending on which show it is.

37:12 I was gonna say, you know, if you're in a uh nice air-conditioned stage and you're doing a comedy or a romantic comedy, you know, it's has a tendency to kind of be, you know, it it takes on its own personality. I think if you're working on something, you know, the NCIS or any of those that require any type of prosthetic pieces or blood.

37:39 And it's the, you know, you shoot the scene, then you gotta clean them up, then you've got to shoot it again. You might end up going ahead and shooting that same piece five or six times. So it's the you gotta clean it up, then you have to go back and do it again, and then you have to clean it up and and so on and so forth.

37:57 Yeah. The process is it seems it's a little more intense. Yeah, I don't know. It's it it just seems a little different. But for your job, that must be difficult because you don't just have one or two actors, right? I mean, are you are is them uh additional day playing makeup people that come in? Are those more for extras or do the extras, principal extras, let's say it's a a dance sequence, you know, and everybody's in a makeup chair or sometimes upset they have the tents with the additional makeup people in there.

38:33 Is that decided by you guys, or how does that work?

38:37 Well, you look at your you look at the call sheet and you figure out, you know, depending upon what show it is that you're on, you look at a call sheet and you might see that you've got six. You usually know this information in advance, like when you go to your production meetings and you're moving on, you know, going back to television.

38:54 So you're gonna go in, you're gonna go over whatever that script is. You sit in a giant room with, you know, all department heads in every different avenue, and you break down the script and you go through it, and that's your opportunity to ask the important questions. You know, if it's something specific to a look, that's your opportunity to go ahead and ask those questions then.

39:20 Yes, you will have other questions that come up later on, but that's like your time to do it.

39:26 Is is there a a look that might is harder for you, like uh workout look or fight, you know, uh a fight look. Um are there is there makeup that is more challenging than just the normal everyday look?

39:46 Yes. Um also too, the other, so if you end up going ahead and let's say you need to do a cut or you need to do a bruise or you have a small prosthetic piece that you need to to utilize. Yeah, it depends upon the elements that you're shooting it in. If you're in a nice air-conditioned stage, chances are it's probably gonna hold up a little bit better than it might be if you're out in the elements, shooting out in the desert or wherever it might be.

40:14 Yeah. But and it also depends upon that individual.

40:18 Now let me ask you, because that's a great question. Because, like, let's say there's a big gash on his or her face. Are you responsible for doing that? Or the special sometimes there's a specialty makeup department that comes in that deals with that kind of stuff.

40:34 Who decides whether you have to put it on or we need additional well if it's your if it's your actor that you've been doing the whole time and you as a department head, you should be very well rounded. You should be able to know how to do those things.

40:49 Oh, fast.

40:50 Um, if it's something that's a time constraint, because you've got 15 actors and they're all coming in and you don't have time to put that bald cap on that actor that you normally do, then yes, you could bring in somebody to go ahead and do that. Um it just really depends upon the amount of actors that you've got working, which then kind of dictates whether or not you're doing it or not, yeah, you're doing it or not doing it.

41:23 Usually on smaller things when it comes to like black eyes, bruises, small prosthetic pieces, those are pretty quick to do. It's the more kind of intricate um gunshot or no, even sometimes those are you those are pretty kind of straightforward. It's more like, you know, you've got your kind of star tracky looks where it's very like a lot of prosthetics.

41:50 Ah, okay. Uh-huh. Yeah. Oh, that's a trip. No, um what is the fluorescent effect that you learned on the office? You were on a you were talking about how the office was very it was very blue lighting and you had a little technique.

42:11 Yeah, so um it was very interesting because so we had uh a lot of times we would be shooting in an office and we would have um they would be in front of a computer screen. So I would ask set dressing if they could help me out with the lighting and not have a blue screen. I would have them go ahead and do a white screen, if at all possible, which in turn would blow out their color, which then as a makeup artist, you then go in and you color adjust.

42:52 So that was it took me a minute when I kept looking and I I was I said to myself, what is going on here? Why am I seeing this and why am I seeing that? And I thought, oh, they're sitting in front of a computer screen. Let's go ahead and see if set dressing will do that computer screen to white. Yes, it will blow the color out, but then I, as a makeup artist, can go back in and you know, deposit more color.

43:20 Going back to protecting your art the the the client, so to speak, the actor or actress because you're paying attention.

43:28 Exactly.

43:29 Offset in your chair next to the carts, you're watching the monitor, and you're not playing words with friends or anything. You're you're making sure your client is that's clear.

43:39 And I don't have my coffee cup on top of your cart.

43:41 No, no. As long as it's unopened, that's not true. Right, right, right. That's not true at all. No. Um well, okay, that's interesting. Uh in your experience, is the w what's your favorite project that you've worked on to date?

43:56 Oh gosh, I've worked on so many great projects with so many great people. Um my introduction into TV, Freaks and Geeks, I wish it had gone on for more than a season, but that was not the circumstances why it didn't go on for more than one. Um I think I know, but I don't wish to share that.

44:22 Okay.

44:23 Um but it was I met so many great people. I developed a, you know, friendship with, you know, Judd Apatau. That was like the very beginning of Judd Apatow and Seth Rogan and Jason Siegel and Linda Cardellini and you know, so on at Jake Kasden. Many, many people. And even some of the directors that came in.

44:47 Like I have worked with them on other projects, which I can't really think of which ones later on after um Freaks and Geeks that I worked with them. But um it was just such a for coming from commercials and you know, working on your first TV projects, something like that, was just the best.

45:12 Yeah.

45:13 You know, just the people were great.

45:15 The sets different, the food's a little different. Yeah, exactly. Crafty's a little different, yeah, yeah.

45:20 Yeah. And it was really interesting because I remember when I ended up going ahead and I don't remember what episode it was, but I remember we were actually shooting at um oh gosh. Uh I can't think of the stages across the street from Paramount.

45:40 Oh, yeah.

45:40 Um I almost said Radford, but not Radford.

45:45 Yeah, yeah. I we know that.

45:47 Anyway, so those stages we happen to be at, we were shooting an episode of a Freaks and Geeks. And directly on the other side of the of the lot, they were shooting a commercial for Jack in the Box.

46:01 Oh, that's perfect. You could have double dipped. There you go. Yeah. If only. That's a little hard to do in your department. Exactly. Um in your makeup kit, how do you how do you uh I would imagine you have your basic stuff, but then do some people that you put makeup on say are that do they have a preference on what they use on their face or all natural this or it because you kind of have to Usually when I start a project, I and actors that that I know are going to be consistently there, as well as ones that kind of come in here and there.

46:40 I always check with them. Do you have any allergies? Do you have any specific products that you'd like to use and not use? Um, so I usually get that information up front. Um, a lot of times they'll just bring in their bag and kind of open it up, their own personal makeup bag. The women do, and they will show me, like, oh, I like to use this or I like to use that.

47:05 Sometimes I'm okay with it, and sometimes I just say, well, that's fine for your everyday. Um, but the lighting is different here. And as we know, um, HD is very different.

47:20 Tell us why.

47:21 Well, HD, you see every little imperfection, uh, imperfection, every little pore on that face. Um when we shot the office, going back to the office, we shot with first generation HD cameras. So it was a little different. Um and I think when when high definition cameras first came out, it was one of those things that you, not you, but we as makeup artists had to try and adjust colors because especially the color red, for whatever reason, you would look at a red and you would think you'd put this beautiful red color on.

48:05 All of a sudden they'd sit in front of the camera and you'd go, Oh my God, it's too orange or it's too blue, or whatever it might be. So you kind of had to work around color adjusting it. And I'm not quite sure why that was the case. Um, but anyway.

48:23 No, that's a yeah, that's and that the yeah, because the digital, I mean, you see every little, yeah.

48:30 Yes, you do.

48:31 Yeah.

48:32 Every little. That's uh and a little actually goes a long way. A lot of people think that you've got to go super heavy. But if you know color correction and you have a background in color theory, like I do, you know that you can use one product which then will camouflage because you're painting. Exactly.

48:56 I mean, every face that comes into my chair is a canvas. And obviously, I want everybody to look the best that they can. Um you know, as a makeup artist, it it you bring a lot to the table, just as everybody else does. The collaboration of everybody together.

49:13 So they finish the scene, your actor is wrapped, they go to the makeup trailer, they take the makeup off. Are you responsible for taking the makeup off?

49:24 It depends. Um so before trailers had hot towel machines, most of the trailers now have kind of built-in towel warmers.

49:36 Okay.

49:36 Um, but before that, they didn't. Uh and also too, they have uh a connection where you can you can uh attach your airbrush in trailers now. You've got a hot towel warmer in there. But before that, I went out and bought a couple of different towel warmers, which I still have today, which I rarely ever need.

49:59 But you know, if I'm on a commercial or wherever where they might not have it, at least I know that I've got it. Um, so it really just depends upon the individual. A lot of times they want you to go ahead and and take care of them. And I'm fine with whatever they want. If they want me to go ahead and come back to the trailer and help them take their makeup off, I usually what I'll do is I will do the towels.

50:26 I pre-do them in the morning. So I get washcloths and put whatever on them, put them in the towel warmer, turn the towel warmer on, a basket where they have whatever type of cleansers they want. I usually have one for sensitive skin. This person likes this, this person likes that. They have access to all those products that are there, the towel warmers there, and then the hamper.

50:54 Yeah, the important part. Exactly. Yeah, clean up that.

50:56 So I always say, you know what? You're more than welcome to go ahead and and utilize this, but also respect our space when you're done washing your face, just as you would at home. Take that uh washcloth and put it in the hamper. And then what we do is we usually will, you know, wait a couple of days till, you know, we have enough towels and then we send those off to get cleaned and start the process over.

51:23 You have a free a favorite product that you keep in your kit, your go-to product or products?

51:30 Products in terms of moisturizers, in terms of foundations, in terms of just in general?

51:37 Perhaps yes. Yeah.

51:39 Okay. Um I love to use um Shiseido Benefiance I use there um for underneath your eyes. Um I try to, if at all possible, I try to use the same line of moisturizers that I use the foundations with because they seem to have, they seem to work much better together when you have it. Sometimes that's not always the case.

52:12 Um, I love Giorgio Romani foundations, aluminous silk foundations, I think are fabulous. A little goes a long way. Um, you can also break them down with a little bit of moisturizer. Um, you know, I I started out with my kit using um RCMA, which is a um a not a liquid foundation, but it's a lot heavier, but it had a it has a great color range.

52:43 It's a little a little goes a long way. And because I started out with that, I definitely know their color range. So I can nine out of ten times kind of scoop it out, put it on my palette. I look at it, and I might have to do a dab of a different color, but it's pretty, it's pretty on on point.

53:07 On point. That's yeah. That's uh it's what you just said to me. I have no idea what you said, but I know there's people out there that know exactly what you're talking about. So uh I'm not gonna interject much more after that on that, on that topic. But um family life, as we're getting closer toward the end of the show.

53:27 As we talked about, you have two two six two great kids, uh, but you your mom and dad are gone a lot. That's stressful.

53:37 Well, I was very blessed to have my mom uh who took care of the girls when they were very young. Um, I have two daughters. I have one that's gonna be 23 in a week, and I have a 26-year-old, one who lives here in California, one who lives in New York. Um, yes, at times it was a little stressful, but thank God for my mom being at the house.

54:02 I mean, I remember at one point my husband was on days, I was on nights, we were driving home and we honked and and waved at each other at a stop sign because we were like two or three blocks from our house.

54:14 Yeah.

54:14 Um yes, at times it was a little stressful because even though you have a family member or a babysitter or somebody else going ahead and taking care of your kids, you're still the parent.

54:26 That and there's still recitals that uh may happen at, you know, 9 30 in the morning, but you get or or promotions or as they call gradu graduations, promotions. I mean dances, all the little moments. Did do you feel you missed him? Did you make a point to be there for him?

54:44 Did you try to do your best to that is one thing that we missed very minimal of. Any of the bigger things, and even with Ray, you know, if he was out of town, I remember I remember when Savannah, our older one, was graduating from preschool, you know, and uh I was working uh on a film called Stranger Than Fiction, and we were shooting in Chicago, and I had a very minimal turnaround.

55:16 But before I took the job, I said, you know, Savannah's graduating, it's super important for me. And I remember I flew out from Chicago. I got to her graduation, I guess, if whatever that might be when you're graduating preschool. Um, but anyway, so uh, but on the return, our flight got delayed. And so there I was, I was kind of at a crossroads because I'm thinking, oh gosh, I've got to hurry up and get back to work.

55:49 And then I thought, what am I gonna do? There's nothing I can do. I'm stuck in the airport. Like I'm sure there's other people that are dealing with worse things than I am. Um, I did eventually get back to Chicago after taking a detour through New Jersey, which as we know, New Jersey coming from California to New Jersey and then back to Chicago, um is not ideal.

56:13 However, I did make it to work. Um, I didn't get there in the morning, but I got there in the afternoon and I still went to work.

56:20 Right. I mean, yeah, it's it's so much of parenthood is not easy, but combined it with the entertainment business, it just adds the next level of stress. But you have to be committed to the you the if you're not committed to family moments like that, this business will suck you out of that whole thing.

56:40 And next thing you know, 20 years go by and you missed it all.

56:43 Like, well, and it's very interesting that you said that because I've worked with makeup and hair people who were in the business before I was, and that's the one thing that they regretted. They said, you know, I have a beautiful resume, but I'm divorced. Uh, you know, my children don't want to talk to me anymore, or I don't have children.

57:04 If you want something to work, whether it's in your personal life or in your professional life, you shouldn't stop your life to go ahead and not do it. I hear so many people, and I have to say, I was kind of that same way when we were eager.

57:22 You could easily do that in this business. You could easily get sucked into it because you want to do good, you want to show your best foot forward, and you, you know, but at the same time.

57:32 Exactly. Then you've got other stuff that's going on at home. Um, so for people out there that are on the fence about going ahead and having kids because they want to have their professional life, there's balance. You can do it.

57:48 Yeah.

57:48 You just have to figure it out. Yeah. It is always great. But also work is stressful.

57:54 That's the like in our business, because you're there 14, 16, 18 hours a day, maybe eight hours, depending on what job it is. You know, the studio lots, they have they have babysitters or child care for the execs. I feel they should have child care for the crew, which is making the execs the millions of bucks.

58:13 I it just doesn't make sense.

58:15 I completely agree. I remember when I w day played over on Malcolm in the Middle, and they had, I think at that time, uh Jane, she had, I think her children were fairly young. And it was shot at I think CBS Radford.

58:34 Radford, yeah.

58:35 Yes. And they had a whole little house, like close to the stages where it had cribs in there, it had rocking chairs, um, you know, the nanny would be able to stay in there. The, you know, it had little toys and stuff. And I remember at that time I was nursing my daughter. So instead of, you know, going ahead and going into a wardrobe closet to have to pump, I actually could sit in a rocking chair and relax and be in this beautiful environment.

59:06 So with you going ahead and saying that, I think that's I had always thought about that. I thought, oh yeah, they have child care, not for us. They have child care for everybody in the in the office building that have normal hours from nine to five. Right. So why couldn't there be something like that in the studio lot?

59:26 Yeah, you would think there's there, yeah. I mean, even if you have to, I would pay for that, just knowing I'm already paying for for the sitter for 18 hours. Anyway, that's another story. Let's move on. Um, real quick, being in close proximities, what was that like during COVID?

59:44 Whew. Well, COVID was a COVID was very challenging. So COVID was probably one of the best years money making that I ever had, which I thought, oh my God, I'm never gonna work. I remember that moment in time where it was like, oh, there's this thing called, you know, what was it called? The coronavirus.

1:00:10 Right. This thing called the coronavirus, and it's coming over, and people are starting to get sick. And do you think we should shut down and blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, every department get together and kind of have a conversation. So we agreed to kind of shut down. And I think one of our show was one of the first shows to kind of come back um and work, but it was very, very challenging.

1:00:35 That was around the time that it started to shift. Initially, makeup and hair would work in one trailer, but when COVID-19 happened, it was we would have make a separate trailer for makeup, a separate trailer for hair. You'd have to have one or two chairs in between each other. It was so painful. It was we had to wear these crazy-looking like hospital gowns.

1:01:05 And then we had, you know, the masks on. And, you know, apparently, and we had to be tested every single day because we were in the actors' faces as much as we were. But then it became hard too, where it would be like you'd the actors had to put masks on. So then you'd get to set and it would be that extra amount of time that you needed for touch-ups because the lipstick would be all over the face or the foundation would be smeared because you know it's so hot outside.

1:01:35 So it definitely was a really challenging time. And I feel like anybody who was in the industry, especially in makeup and hair, that got through COVID-19 could do anything because that definitely was a very, very, very challenging time. Initially, they wanted us to um have these like uh shields on, the, but I also wear glasses for close-up.

1:02:03 Right. So it was like here I am with the shield in front of me, and then I've got the hospital gown on, and I've got my glasses on, and everything's fogging up, and I can't see what I'm doing. And it's, you know, I'm touching them up on set, and it's it's hot on set because I've got, you know, 19 layers on plus a hospital gown on.

1:02:22 So it definitely was a challenging time, but it was a time that if you could get through COVID, you really could get through anything.

1:02:31 Yeah. I mean, that must be and what and then let's say the actor gets COVID. Would you then be pulled off work for two weeks? In have you did that ever happen to you where when somebody worked on had COVID?

1:02:45 Mine was never necessarily um like a main actor. I did have to go home when there was a stunt person who was doing a project, um, who was doing a movie and thought that it was still party time on location, and they ended up testing positive. And so then, you know, they do the whole line of, okay, well, who had it and who had it and who had it.

1:03:12 Um, I mean, I we were tested, like I said, we were tested every, I think it was like every single day. We were tested to make sure. But the funny thing about it is, and I always found interesting, is that actors would then go to set, they wouldn't have their masks on, they'd be talking to other actors, and it was like, okay, um, did COVID seem to forget about the actors, but they were only concentrating mostly on the crew and the directors and producers and whatever.

1:03:46 But the actors were kind of immune. Yeah, immune to it. They never had they would never uh that would never happen. Right.

1:03:53 Yeah.

1:03:53 It was always it was such a interesting situation.

1:03:57 It was interesting, and you brought up a good point because your work is very close proximity with glasses and the shield. Same thing for your husband or our in the camera department. Like, you know, pick for people who were the fog gets up. Oh, here's a lens cloth for anti-fogger. That thing doesn't work.

1:04:13 That's like a anyway, yeah. That was it was challenging.

1:04:16 I definitely have um I I think just recently and just cleaned out the closet of the amount of shields I had and masks we had and everything during that period of time. I was like, I'm putting this all to rest.

1:04:29 Yeah, well, I don't know. You might need them. I don't know. Oh it took so long to get them, remember? Yeah, right. That was that was uh That's right.

1:04:37 They'll be coming up with something different.

1:04:40 Something, yeah. Well, uh a couple of last things as we go on. Um, as in our careers, we started out guns ablazing, everything was great, commercials were booming, TV was booming, movies were booming, cut to now. You know, we've gone through multiple strikes. You know, the part about the business that is I've come to accept, but it's still hard is that other people control my income.

1:05:05 I wasn't on strike, but I couldn't go to work to make money because we were locked out. Agreed. Which is kind of like, I mean, it's fascinating. We've gone through in your career multiple strikes, two or three writer strikes, multiple actors strike. Um, how do you handle the downtime or the is this my last job?

1:05:25 Is this the last craft service I'm gonna see in my career? That's kind of what I always think.

1:05:31 You know, I think that after every job, whether it be now or early in my career, when a job ends, you go, huh, when is gonna when is it gonna be my next one? Am I gonna ever work again? And it just it does come about. Yes, it has been a lot harder for people now, more than ever, um, because everything, as you know, is uh Going out of the country, out of state, yes, it gets a little trickier.

1:06:04 I would say they don't bring as many people to say any of the bigger production cities, New York, New Jersey, any of those, but or Chicago, because they have that many more people there. But I would say, say, you know, a lot of middle America, so to speak, they're still going ahead and bringing people because they don't have the craftspeople that we do here in Los Angeles.

1:06:32 And the business started here. We've got some great talent that's here.

1:06:37 Yeah. Yet there's always a talent is available here in Los Angeles. Yes. Sunny weather?

1:06:42 Yeah. That's the one thing we never have to worry about that it's going to start snowing or that we're going to have a downpour in December.

1:06:51 Well, even if we do, it doesn't last very long. That's right. You don't have to turn the generators off for the lightning storms that are coming and sweat to death. Those are fun. Right. Right. In in this changing business, would you recommend, let's say one of your daughters wanted to get in the business, following your footsteps?

1:07:07 Would you would you advise them that's a uh a good idea, or how what would you say?

1:07:12 Absolutely not.

1:07:14 Explain the not in three minutes or less.

1:07:17 Yeah, the not. Um the business is not like what it used to be, um, especially in television. The amount of episodes are less and less and less and less. You get told, just be happy that you're working. Um, I would just say take whatever it is um that you have under your belt in terms of your talent, because everybody's got a talent.

1:07:44 Sometimes you don't know where that talent is until you try something different. Um, take whatever it is that your talent is and try to go down different avenues. Something will stick. And just try and stay as positive as possible. It's very hard, I know, when people aren't working to stay positive, but we've been through it.

1:08:10 You've been through the strikes, you've been through multiple, and we've always managed to come out on top. Um, yes, the business is changing. Um, a lot more things going overseas for all of our obvious reasons, you know, socialized medicine, they don't have to pay in your pension, all of those things that are unfortunate.

1:08:32 Um in my opinion, the crews are still the best in Los Angeles.

1:08:38 I happen to agree with you on that.

1:08:40 I mean, um we certainly help train the world, you know, which is well, I think that's more and more what's starting to happen, which it's just like people are scrambling and looking for work. So in the trying to reinvent the wheel, where I'm I see more and more people in in every capacity of of production that are, oh, well, we're gonna teach you how to go ahead and do this and teach you how to do that and teach you how to do this.

1:09:11 And it's like, okay, I'm that's great. But there's a lot more to it than just like, you know, a 10-minute tutorial or a 30-minute tutorial. I think a lot of it happens, as you know, when you're on set. You know, you if if you gave the individual or the random person who doesn't work in our industry a call sheet, they would look at it and go, what does D1 mean?

1:09:40 What uh you know what I mean? What's EXT mean?

1:09:42 Yeah, you know? Yeah. So all the things I asked in the early nine or late 90s.

1:09:48 I did the same. I did the same, but I was very fortunate to, you know, have people that were willing to go ahead and kind of show me the ropes. I think once you understand it, you're okay. But I say if you're just wanting to, if you're just starting out, probably not the best time right now.

1:10:12 You think a uh a a makeup artist in 30 years, if they started today, would have a 30-year career?

1:10:20 No.

1:10:20 Yeah. Or make X amount of hours to qualify.

1:10:24 Absolutely not. For people, if you want to meet that benchmark of 30 years, 60,000 hours, no way. Not with the amount of not with the amount of um episodes that each of the shows are going.

1:10:37 Right. Those are the qualifiers for the retirement part. Correct. Which, you know, somebody in their 20s early not thinking about, but somebody later on who's done that that becomes important. And I just find it like, I don't know. I I don't I'm not as positive. I'm hopeful, but actually, no, I'm not even hopeful.

1:10:57 I don't, you know, it's slowing down. Like you mentioned, the 23, 24 episodes, those were great because you would start in July and end in April or whatever, and you would have the luxury of being able to take time off or go on vacation because you knew you had work in July again, because most likely you were picked up.

1:11:18 You were brought back on to that same show. Most likely. A lot sometimes it didn't happen, but there would be always be another show to jump onto. I mean, the business was like we we kind of had our way, but now it's few and far between. Absolutely. I'm like a seasonal worker.

1:11:33 You know, it's and it's interesting too. I feel like there's a lot of um gone are the days of like, for lack of better words, old school producers, production managers. Um, you know, there's a lot of, I'm all about bringing in young, but if you're coming in and you're young, you need to have experience under your belt.

1:11:56 Don't come in young and not have experience under your belt. Because when we as crafts people look at them and we throw something their way and they have no idea what we're talking about, it's happened to me where I've said something and they go, What?

1:12:15 You know, which which when you started, th those people weren't on set, right?

1:12:20 Like this was just recently.

1:12:21 No, no, but that's what I'm saying. But because like when you started in your early days being on set, you had to be quiet and pick up and learn quickly. You couldn't just be novice to the situation.

1:12:34 So Yeah, and you know, it's uh, you know, I remember having a conversation with a producer one time, uh, not that long ago, and I said, you know, it was like, hey, what's your wish list? And one of the things on my wish list was I want to be on a daily, not a weekly.

1:12:55 Oh yeah.

1:12:56 And I completely, he was so dumbfounded, he had no clue what I was talking about. And I said, Well, you know, in film, when you do movies, you're you're not on a weekly. Right, because what it only happens in it only happens in television.

1:13:12 Right. And for what you know, for the non-people watching our show that aren't in the business, when you work on TV, you the you you're hired for the week. And then technically you're let off. And then Monday you're rehired, technically. But the pay is different. You get paid less being a weekly than a daily.

1:13:31 The the the pay scale is very different, and it's the overtime that you really get screwed on um when you're working on a weekly opposed to being a daily.

1:13:43 And the work is the same. You're doing the same, same, same thing you're doing, whether it's five days or one day. Yeah.

1:13:49 You know, it's a 40 hour, it's 40 hours with uh, you know, if you're on a daily, it's 54. Um, the other thing is, is I think that it might be even more, which is so crazy for hairdressers. I think uh when they're on a weekly, but so but it's not happening as much now. I think initially when that started to be, it was like we started being like, well, we it needs to be favored nations.

1:14:17 So whatever the makeup department's getting, hairdressers were uh would get the same. And I think that started. My understanding is the reason for that with hairdressers being paid less than makeup artists, because a makeup artist was a man's world early on. Yeah, my buddy's dad was there were a lot of the in a man's world, you know, the men were getting more.

1:14:47 So, but it's not so much like that anymore. You know what I mean? It's it now you say it's favored nations, and I mean, pretty much the producers already know kind of what the deal is, and they know that, you know, crew talks.

1:15:02unknown Yeah.

1:15:02 Crew talks. So everybody knows what everybody's making, and there's no hiding anything.

1:15:08 Right. Yeah. No, every yeah. It is funny when you get called in a job and like don't tell other departments they're making. And you're like, right. And then of course everybody talks.

1:15:17 Right. And then big, you know, there's a knock on the producer's door, and you're like, well, why is so-and-so making $4 an hour more than thanks, right, yeah.

1:15:25 They're on a 10-hour, not a yeah, exactly. Yeah, those are always fun. Um, one thing we like to do before we leave is uh ask you your favorite word on set, or as some people have mentioned, phrase on set.

1:15:38 Rap.

1:15:39 That's your favorite. That's a good one, yeah. Yeah, all right, and then of course, the least favorite.

1:15:49 It's been nice working with you, but we've been canceled.

1:15:53 Yeah. Has that happened? Has that conversation happened to you?

1:15:58 It's happened where uh we were, it was right before Christmas. We had the whole trailer outfitted. It was so beautiful. We were all enjoying the Christmas spirit, and I can't remember the date, but it was close enough to Christmas. It was probably like around the 15th or 16th of December.

1:16:18 It's pretty close.

1:16:19 And everybody was waiting to like, oh, we're gonna get the pickup, it's gonna be the back nine. And I was like, okay, so we want to call everybody to stage, like they do. And so, of course, everybody's like on pins and needles, like, oh great, what now? And you know, and of course, unfortunately, you're feeling like it's gonna be the worst, which it usually is.

1:16:45 So they bring us and they go, You're the best crew that we've ever worked with. Thank you so much for everything. However, this is gonna be our last episode. We won't be continuing. The show's been canceled.

1:16:59 Merry Christmas.

1:17:01 Merry Christmas.

1:17:03 Well, yeah, yeah. No, those are horrible. What a what a horrible way to send you off into the yeah, at the music screws.

1:17:14 Well, now we're gonna return them.

1:17:15 Yeah, yeah. No, now I'm gonna return them. Yeah, no, this is a funny business. And um, you know, for you being the first makeup person, again, it's a big honor and thank you so much. Uh, I know Pablo really wanted to be here. Um, unfortunately, he's working, but fortunately maybe fortunately, maybe if you come back and you had a good time, well, it'll be a two-person host show.

1:17:38 And uh, you know, thank you for sharing your stories to the makeup world. It's always, it's, it's such a it's it's a team, but sometimes this that part of the team is over here. So you don't get a lot of.

1:17:53 I agree. I always say that um everybody should walk in each other's shoes to really understand and have a little more respect for everybody's department.

1:18:05 Yeah.

1:18:05 Because every little piece puts that whole puzzle together.

1:18:09 That's true. Yeah.

1:18:11 So I would love to do it again. So I mean, this was really fun. Excellent.

1:18:15 Had a great time. Oh, that's cool. And I uh, you know, next time when you come on, you tell a little more stories maybe that uh might have bugged you in the business, you know. Right. Because I eventually we'll do a drive session, but not yet. Not yet.

1:18:29 Not this early on.

1:18:31 No, no, no. Laverne, Caracuzzi, Lazio. Thank you for coming on to the Freeland Podcast.

1:18:40 Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much.