Recovering from AI Psychosis

0:00 Okay, this is a really important blocker. DJ, I have a blocker, and I need to understand something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! Anyways, I'm sorry. I really liked this meme, kind of inverting it to where the first guy is how it always happens with Chachy PT being like, dude, I got the bug, and then literally the next line's like, actually, I need to investigate some more.

0:27 So that's kind of how I looked at this is I thought that was funny and then you told me that's not how this meme works. Right. I mean, why not? First off? Why are you the gatekeeper of memes? Well, first off, this is, did you see my version of this meme? No, I did not. Just go, okay, just quick, why don't you go peek on over to my profile?

0:50 It'll be relevant to this conversation. Okay, I'm on your profile. Okay. Yeah. What read, can you read it for the audience for audio listeners? And for those of us on the retired tweets. To like their tweet. That's what you're doing. That's what you're doing literally right now. You're the guy, right?

1:10 I'm confused. Okay, that's all right. We'll get you there. We'll get you there. This is not like a Drake yes, no panel. Kind of meme. This is more of like, well, I was just saying you that's, I'm just telling you that's not how the meme as it stands currently works. It's fine. Like, I mean, you might be able to break ground.

1:35 This is what I was gonna say. Things are fluid. Okay. Part of it is, I don't have as many followers as you. You can set trends that I can't set. So I'm not trying to police it. I'm just trying to let you know, bro to bro, I'm not gonna let you go out there and use a meme wrong. And just let you use it wrong for like a year.

1:51 And then you find out like, oh, bad luck Brian is actually about things being bad luck and not good things. And I just misread it because it described like my high school experience or something like that. Like I wouldn't want you to have that happen. Okay. That would be very funny though. I would, I actually, I love this idea of actually misunderstanding bad luck Brian to the point of it being good luck Brian.

2:13 That actually makes me really happy. So anyways, it's supposed to be about more of a vibe of what he's giving off here. Less of like a yes, no kind of panel. But I mean, you could try and switch it up to a yes, no panel. Yeah, I was just saying it also fits as like a two-part thing. Someone that's like really into something to, like because picture one is a very confident picture.

2:34 Picture two is also confident, but it's also whoopsie pupsies, right? Very classic kind of meme setup. Yeah. I think Adam is probably really rethinking his decision to come on stand up. I just miss you guys. Did you know that it was just gonna be discussing the finer points of whether the meme, whether the meme image supported the text and the meme for like 10 minutes?

2:56 I'm not very in the memes. I don't have a lot of knowledge on this topic, so I'm just gonna sit here and talk. We should have done, oh, I can't believe what we didn't do. We should have done a meme quiz for Adam and got his take on various. We'll get that for next time, Adam. Yep. Hey, is that HTTP? Get that out of here.

3:12 That's not how we order coffee. We order coffee by a SSH terminal dot shop. Yeah, you want a real experience? You want real coffee? You want awesome subscriptions, so you never have to remember again. Oh, you want exclusive blends with exclusive coffee and exclusive content? Then check out Cron. You don't know what SSH is?

3:32 Well, maybe the coffee's not for you. I do love this idea of meme quiz for Adam. Yeah, like I don't know who the Brian one is, whatever you just said about Brian. I've never heard of any of your bad luck, Brian. You don't know. Oh, I tried to pick a like an OG meme that you guys would be like. Maybe if I saw this.

3:57 And next, you're not gonna know philosopher, Raptor. I don't guess I know philosopher. I do know philosopher, Raptor. Okay, yeah, that's like a pretty classic old school meme. Are you saying like floss, philosopher, Raptor? Yeah, philosopher, philosophy. Oh, I know that one. Yeah, okay. You know bad luck, Brian, too.

4:14 Search it out. Yeah, I looked it up. I know that image. Yeah, that's what it's called. I know that image. It's like familiar with that. It's got some all-timers. Like has a face only a mother could love? Two dads. You know, like it's got a flag. Oh, I've never seen bad luck, Brian. Oh, really? Oh, dear, okay.

4:35 It has so many funny one liners. It's old internet memes. And you can just keep on going down him for quite some time and you'll laugh at each one of them. Scott makes Steve also good one. There's like a lot of like the old memes. I thought it was really good, because they just had so much legs comparatively.

4:51 All right. All right. Okay, so apparently we need to have an Adam versus Casey meme history. Oh my gosh. And it's like the final score is two to one out of 50. Well, no, no, Casey, I'm not Casey. To be clear, I'm not going to let Began be the one that chooses what meme see considers Ralph. Okay. I'll try and pick all the rules of the game.

5:12 Right. You're trying to pick one that somebody other than Began has seen. It's like Began is not a meme exactly. He's the only person who's ever posted the image. He's like, I posted this six months ago and I laughed really hard and I showed my girlfriend. And then she said, can we just watch the show, please?

5:31 Yeah. All right, we should probably get going for the standup now. Okay, yeah, let's welcome to the standup. Today we have with us Adam.dev. If you do not know the legendary vegan from the Ozarks, he has single handedly helped make something compete against Claude code by himself. Adam is a fantastic dev.

5:49 And we've made fun of him many times for being a vegan and going to Korean barbecue with us. But the more important thing about Adam is that he went from code and everything by hand, not really into the AI going to full AI psychosis. And apparently he is back out of AI psychosis. Coming into reality again, took a month off the internet.

6:07 And when we saw this, we said, okay, Adam, come on. Talk to us. We gotta hear the story. We gotta understand it because I think a lot of people are probably feel, they're probably in the month-long adventure or they wish they had the month-long adventure or even more so. They're probably in full AI psychosis right now, not even realizing they need whatever you had.

6:26 So we'd love to hear the story and all that. TJ, interruption now. Well, I was just gonna say, I'm building my own programming language. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, they pay it for cell labs. You can do it, I can do it, boys, okay? So I'm, I got my agents working right now, right over here. Can you separate computer?

6:52 If you're trying to compete with Versailles, I think you're gonna have to like one up them on the loserest name because like, they came out and they just called, look, it's called zero. Like, we're just gonna call our own thing zero. That's what, that's our level of self-confidence. You see this coming out?

7:07 You just call it suck. Like, the language is just called suck or something. Kasey, Kasey, mine's called one. Everyone's always talking about going from zero to one. That's okay. Nice. So that's, they're gonna be using it immediately. Think about the SEO. Zero to one, baby. Zero to one. There's your upgrade path.

7:26 Okay. By the way, I teach it, you may not know this, but the reason why it was called zero is because it's the language that introduces zero value. Oh, damn. All right. Your versatile sponsorships are all canceled now. Adam, so can you give those of us who don't know like a little bit of background on like, where this whole thing started?

7:48 Cause like, I also don't know if everyone knows that you worked on open code. I mean, that might only be passing from open code, so could we get, could we get like the deep, the starting point of the story? From zero to one, shall we say? Yeah. Yeah, I guess it starts like April of last year. So cloud code came out and maybe like February, something like that.

8:11 And I started working on open code in April. And I would say like, that was around the cloud three dot seven. I'm going to reference a lot of model numbers because it's just kind of like the timeline. It helps me remember everything. That was like three dot seven where I feel like more, it was kind of picking up more people were playing with the whole agentic thing.

8:30 So not just like going to the browser and asking questions and then copy pasting code, but like letting it run on your machine, cloud code style. So I started working on it in April. And I would say like until September, maybe September, October, I wasn't really using the stuff. I was building it mostly by hand.

8:49 And I would just like forget. And I know DAX and I've talked about this a lot. We would just completely forget to use it for weeks or for a week and be like, oh man, if I'm going to make this and expect people to use it, I should be using it. So mostly like through the summer, just kind of doing everything by hand still.

9:03 Like playing with it, but not really sold and not really impressed with what it was able to do. I guess it was sometime in the fall when I think it was Opus four. It could be four dot something. But I think it was four when I started trying to lean harder into it over the fall. And again, it just like, and I've always found this with the cloud models.

9:25 It just like took so many shortcuts and did so many stupid things. But I had a hard time like handing over anything to it without just showing like I wasted my time. I wish trash was here. I feel like he would be able to relate more with me. Like I think when I'm saying this, I'm just assuming Casey's thinking, it's still a waste of time.

9:42 We always trash was it with us, okay? It's, yeah. We all. Okay. You're all, I'll be trash. Okay. You got to read it. Yeah. I think you know what I'm afraid to tell embarrassing story. If you're going to be trash, I've got to finish it up with a quick embarrassing story. No, if he's always end up somehow being something that I'm like, I cannot believe you say that knowing that there's a chance your wife will listen to this podcast.

10:10 Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I care about you trash on the person. Right. And I'm like, bro, your wife seems like a really nice lady. Don't mess that up, dude. Like there's only, it's not going to get another shot trash, you know? So it's like, I just worry for him as a friend of friend, you know what I mean?

10:29 Not even just close to close, but to your point, though, Adam, I 100% agree. I feel like Claude, it loves to be lazy, loves to be lazy. Yeah, I never really, and I still don't really use the Claude models. It was like really, I think it was December that the GPT 5.2 model came out somewhere around there.

10:50 And that was the first time, because I had been reviewing every line that Claude would spit out. That was the first time that I was using GPT. There was a few people on Twitter very actively, like praising it and very loud about it. It was like reviewing the GPT output compared to the Claude stuff. It was just so much more clever.

11:06 It felt like it was taking its time and like it took forever to run. Like it was much slower. But I felt like, hey, this model output is good enough that I only use it more. But that was the first time I think that I really started leaning hard into it. Can I ask a question there actually about that?

11:22 Because this is interesting. So as someone on the outside of this sort of stuff, I feel like if you'd asked me from what you see online, which of the two models do people prefer, I would have assumed it was anthropic. Because that's what people always talk about. Is that fake news? Like is that not really the case, at least in your experience?

11:44 I mean, I think this year GPT has kind of taken the mantle. And I'm speaking more for like the extremely online crowd. I don't think I have any idea what the broader like 80% of developers who just clock and clock out what they're doing. But the people who talk a lot online, I think GPT models since 5.2 have kind of slowly taken it and now to the point, I think Codex is kind of the default.

12:05 Very awesome. Our team at anomaly, I mean, 20 of us, we by far use the GPT models. I would say KC, the thing I've seen is a lot of people who don't want to look at the code ever really like it. Not to say that there aren't people who like. It's interesting. Like who like looking at code who aren't serious, like there are a lot of people who are serious engineers who still like that.

12:32 But in my experience, it's been like cool. I can pay $20 andthropy gives me $4,000 of tokens. I don't ever look at the code and I'm like, I have 35 new dashboards. And you're like, but did the dashboards do anything? But I have 35 of them. So not to put to point a point on it here, but like, it sort of sounds like you guys are saying that for the discerning customer, you're gonna pick chat GPT.

12:56 Is that sort of what you're saying at this point? I mean, I don't want to talk about it. So I'm not a chat GPT guy. Though I do throw it over there. I personally, every time I generate something with chat GPT Cloud or other models, I find myself always refactoring and fixing them. And I keep on trying to make this better and nicer.

13:12 And I keep trying to get to this golden land of you can just produce code and be happy. But I have yet to be happy. And so I find them all to be near similar and that how you prompt it probably makes a bigger impact. Okay, except for Cloud loves like adding, like GPT loves adding tests. Like they all kind of have their old, like little flavors to things.

13:31 Okay. I would say like this generation with the latest models are probably all pretty similar. I think it's more probably like the relations to developers from Anthropic versus OpenAI has shifted a lot. And I think there's been a lot of backlash with just the way Anthropics handle certain things. So it's probably more that at this point.

13:49 Okay. All right, so I just wanted to hear that because I don't have experience with these things. So I was just kind of, I was curious on that because it's like, it seems like the public perception sometimes seems to be the Anthropic is ahead in some way. But that sounds like that's not really true from the experience with people here.

14:05 So that was good friction. Thank you. I want to throw one more thing out from, I think it was Lex Freeman who said this, which is that people developed like a personal love for the model because they solved a problem at a time. And then at some point in the future, it fails on solving a problem. So they switch models.

14:21 And then that new model successfully does it. So they're like, that's my new favorite one. So it's like more of a like an irrational love as opposed to like a highly scientific. This is the good one. They're not actually counting like how many times did this one do a good job? How many times did that one do a good job?

14:34 They're just kind of like remembering the last big success or something. Yes, I think that that's typically work out. Yeah, I also think probably like people are discounting that like the models probably do some stuff differently. Like they're pretty big. They spend a lot of money. They've seen a lot of different stuff.

14:50 They have different things. And like probably different people's brains, my guess would on average work better for different ones where like, oh, I'm an overtalker. Maybe it's like, there's probably some stuff too where it's like that. You'll definitely see some, like Adam you probably feel this too.

15:07 Like if I ask GPT to make, if I make like whatever, you know, five, five, if I ask it to make something, and I tell it to make some UI, it will put in the UI all over the place and it will say without fail, which I don't understand how they haven't gotten rid of this. Hello, this is an app built with effect and it's running on bun.

15:28 Also click down here for more info. And you're like, what website ever? Yeah, yeah. When you get to the front page, they say here's our tech stack as the first big header. Every time you do this, I don't understand why it's doing this, but it literally just says, hello, here's our tech stack and here's a sum quote from you describing what you wanted, how to build this.

15:50 And you're like, okay, guys, that's crazy. So for, anyways, I don't know, Adam, you can take it right now, but I was just saying on that. They do some things clearly different and you feel it like when you're using them. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely part of it. I think for a long time, people have complained that the codex models, that the GPT models are pretty bad at UI.

16:09 And Sonnet seems to be, Opus seemed to be better at that stuff. So it is weird and like everybody has different workflows. Some people like to work with it where they tell it exactly what to do and they just want to do it very fast. So people like DHH are very vocal about models, like KimmyK2.6 or whatever, the open source models.

16:25 Okay. Because they're very fast and they can be very good at those kind of tasks. But if you want to like have it build broader things, scope out, you know, boilerplate stuff for like a whole project, then maybe other models are better. There's all these kind of nuances. But I think what Prime said going back to the, the like last success, that was really kind of what I think spun me off into what I would call the psychosis.

16:46 Okay, cool. Once you've been into that AI so, psychosis, you see it everywhere. Like you see so many people's posts and you just like you know exactly where they are on this journey. Oh wow. Like if they start talking about multiple accounts, like they have multiple codex accounts or multiple cloud subscriptions, or they're talking about leaving them running overnight.

17:03 Like that kind of stuff, you can just go back and remember exactly the frame of mind you were in when you kind of like went down that path. This is fast enough. Yes, say more about those things, Adam. I'm not saying so. I don't do any of those things because they seem very distracting to me with my family.

17:19 So I've actually, I've avoided this version. Well, I'm a very intense like obsessive person. So I think I ran the whole thing kind of on a speedrun. Like it maybe normally isn't so intense and it takes longer. And maybe it's not so disruptive to your life. But I mean, it led for me to like a month long, complete burnout.

17:37 I mean, it was like, I was very intensely down this rabbit hole. And I think it started with like, it's like, so I played a lot of golf in my past. And the thing about golf, it's such an expensive sport. It's such a pain in the ass in so many ways. Like it's just extremely difficult. Like you're just constantly chasing balls over the woods and everything.

17:56 But you'll hit like one good shot every round. And that'll get you coming back. Like you'll have that moment where you're like, oh, I'm coming back tomorrow because golf is amazing. And that, I think that's what it was. Like five dot two era, one of those models, just put out enough really like, this is a cool output.

18:12 It was something that kind of got me hooked that dopamine of seeing it do something that you're like, I might have done it that way. Like that's, that was awesome. That kind of started the, well, then I'm going to review it less. Like I'm not looking at the code is hard. I'm like doing, because those models were so slow, you start to do all these weird like parallelization optimizations, like you're running work trees and you're doing all this stuff because you're waiting 10 minutes for it to finish.

18:37 So then you start looking at all that work for those that don't know. It's just like cloning out your work folder into another one that's just like a different branch of Git. So you can actually be editing, you know, two different folders, two different Git branches at the same time for one project. I thought we were back on the golf analogy.

18:54 So that's, thank you, Brian. That's all we got. Yeah, the ball is out of work trees. Say for a really good strategy to enjoy golf more. This is what my mom does when she golfs. It's sometimes she doesn't even write down the stroke count for the, like that whole, but she will just put a little star if it made a nice sound and got in the air and she says, that was a good hole.

19:17 So like, and she has fun when she goes golfing. That's what I'm saying. You're not breaking any course records, guys. Okay. You're not breaking any course records. You put a little, have you, have you met Tejas mom happy Gilmore? Uh, really, really fun to golf with. Anyway, sorry, could you add them?

19:39 Yeah, where was I? I guess like, that's, that's when it started. So it was like, had a few outputs that really compared to what I was experiencing with the anthropic models just felt like this thing so much smarter. And then you just start to like assign so much intelligence to this thing that maybe it just got lucky.

19:56 Maybe it was just the exact right thing that it needed to solve and it solved it really well. Anyway, it, yeah, it led to like, I mean, I would be running, you know, four or five of these things at a time and I'm sure there's people listening to this that have gone deeper than this. And they're like, rookie numbers or whatever.

20:12 You'd have like all these work trees. And you're just doing like endless refactors that are completely pointless like, or like doing audits like for performance stuff. I'm sure people are gonna resonate with this. Like you are in AI psychosis. If you're hearing this and you're like, wait, I do that every day.

20:25 It's called AI psychosis. Okay. Okay. You just like, it's like the same process. It's like starting an ad and it's like a ceramic lock and it's not like, this is you. This is you and AI psychosis. And I remember seeing other people in the height of it for me, like through the winter, December, January.

20:42 I remember seeing other people say things online and you'd be like, yeah, he gets it. And like what he gets is, he also has it. So he's like, they'd be saying things like, they'd say things like, I can't sleep. I just can't, like, and that was me. I couldn't hardly go to night. I have my laptop in the bedroom and I'd wake up because I want to start another prompt.

20:59 Like I literally couldn't think of it like going the next 30 minutes without doing more work. And it's totally nonsensical and like just insane to look back on and think that I was in my right mind. I wasn't. Okay, I can't jump in. By the way, if you don't know KC market, I just watched a Mark Andreessen clip and he's talking about AI vampires.

21:19 Like there's apparently a super popular in the valley where you are effectively ruining your entire sleep because all night you're reprompting your agents and going back to sleep and then waking up in 20 minutes to make sure they're all still running and then going back. Like just totally destroying your brain and your last over being productive.

21:34 It's like people debating whether they should get into the polyphasic sleep and stuff. Like I'm asleep five times a day for 20 minutes each. Like it was exactly stuff. If you do that, it's kind of like you have six days and if you think about it, you stack that up for one month. I'm gonna kick your butt.

21:49 Yeah. Okay, sorry. Put the clip in, Josh, put the clip in. So I measure time. I've compressed and condensed time. I bent it. My day is 6 a.m. to noon and I'm not crazy. You're crazy for thinking it takes 24 hours, just like some dude in a cave did 300 years ago. My second day starts at noon and goes till 6 p.m.

22:08 That's day two. And then the next day is 6 p.m. to midnight. What I've done now is I have changed and manipulated time. I now get 21 days a week. Stack that up over a month. I'm gonna kick your butt. That sounds excellent. I have no idea what that is. I don't think he was joking. I don't think he was joking.

22:23 So I do want to say on the AI psychosis part of waking up and all this up, this is not that different from a bunch of other things where people do insane stuff to place slot machines or do a bunch of, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes it feels like back when I was trading it, like 2012, 2013. I was losing so long.

22:46 And when you didn't hold. Yeah, right. It sounds a little bit like World of Warcraft to originally, I remember people had problems with that where they would just kind of, I had problems with that. They would stop leaving the house. It would just, okay. Yeah, like a, yeah, it's a pattern. So Adam, like, how does this start exactly though?

23:07 Because is it, were you seeing particularly good like improvements in productivity? Or was it really just, it was just the fact that you liked seeing that the AI could do something. And so you felt like there was something to like, to go after there and you just couldn't help yourself but do that even though it wasn't necessarily like, oh my God, I'm getting all this much more work done.

23:30 I think it's the latter. I think you would, you would convince yourself of the former to justify it. Like this is so much more productive. I'm getting so much done. I see. But I think it really is just like that prompt and dopamine cycle. You would, you'd submit a big prompt, you'd come back and see the results and it's just the slot machine thing.

23:44 It's like, did it do a good job. And then you get into, and I'm sure there's people to get into these with LLM's even outside of coding. Like I'm sure, I mean, the people falling in love with models and stuff, I'm sure it's a similar phenomenon or just a sicko, what is it, sicko pants or whatever? Yeah, sicko pants, sicko pants.

24:02 Sicko pants, I don't know. Sicko pants. I love shorts though. Yeah. Yeah. They're clearly like a sicko pants, I want shorts. I'm probably the Ozarks, okay? We don't use big words. All right. They're clearly engineered to like, give us that reward cycle. Like it's probably no different than any other thing you can get addicted to.

24:28 And I get addicted to things very easily. And then very hard when I do, so. That's really interesting. So what was like the worst point of this? Like what, so at some point you decide, you're like, you self decide you have a problem, I guess. Like were you the first person to go, I have a problem? Of course, it's only tell you.

24:50 You know what, I mean, my wife probably would have first noticed. What was the sign that you were having a problem? Like what did she point to that? I mean the sleep stuff. Yeah, what'd she say? Yeah, the sleep stuff is the big thing for me. Cause I've struggled with staying asleep for work just before all this, you know, for my entire career.

25:06 I would, it felt like Christmas morning every day. Like I'd sleep four or five hours a night and want to get up to work on the thing cause like I get a big something out of programming and building things. So I've always struggled with sleep and we had to in the last couple of years really like build some boundaries around, I'm gonna sleep eight hours a night and I'm gonna stay in bed at least.

25:24 So when it started interrupting my sleep that I think that's probably the first sign that drew attention from my wife. Nobody really like, nobody I work with. I don't remember DAX or anybody that works closely with me saying like, hey, I think you're losing your mind. I think it was probably just the burnout.

25:43 The first real like something has to change is I didn't want to wake up in the morning and that's like very rare for me. I'm just, I'm a morning person. When I start sleeping till like seven, seven, 30, I know something's wrong and yeah, it was just driven me into this kind of like very hard burnout.

26:00 But nothing, I've never experienced anything like it in my career, not to this extent. I've had burnout where for a couple of days I'm like, I don't wanna work on something else but not where I don't even wanna get up. Or I don't wanna work. It's just a, it's always been like an obsession of mine. So.

26:15 A quick question. Just so I really understand it. For you, it was the, it was the pursuit of making the AI have the hole in one. And it just didn't happen. So you just kept pursuing this like feeling of like the perfect commit, the perfect prompt, the perfect chair or was it? I think I just, I don't think it ever stopped doing what I was looking for.

26:38 I think I just physically, mentally wore myself out to the point that I had to stop. Like, okay. I don't think anything clicked for me. When we were talking about it, Adam, I thought like one of the things that I remember you saying was just like, the company you were at before had less of like direct competitor.

26:59 So it'd been like a while since you're working on OpenCode, there's like, you know, a trillion dollars floating around of people trying to take every user of course and things like that. So some of it, if I recall, you were just like, oh, there's like a trillion things for us to build. And I want to build this and I want to build that.

27:14 And we need to build all the things at once. And oh my goodness, I can't build all the things at once because I have AI. Like, that was the impression that I got when we were talking about it a while. Yeah, it's a very competitive field right now. I mean, a lot of people trying to figure out how they can be the ones that shape programming henceforth.

27:31 So yeah, I'm not used to that. I'm not used to having any competitors, let alone 100 of them I can look at on Twitter every day. So yeah, Twitter X was a big part of also mental health, drain, all of it kind of came together with the AI psychosis to kind of drive me into a hole. And it forced me to stop.

27:47 I mean, I didn't work for a month. Like, I've never done that in my career five weeks even I think. And that was enough time to get some perspective, to not interact with LMS for a while. It's kind of like, you start looking at it all very differently. Do you want to get kind of snapped out of that? Can you tell us what you did during those five weeks?

28:06 So just no Twitter, no LLM's or no programming? Well, he was tired of, he was affecting him negatively, psychologically, to go on X and see all these competitors. So he moved to Blue Sky where he wouldn't be scared if he had a reason to do that. No, I actually, yeah, I was pretty, I was pretty off. I'm sorry.

28:27 Pretty off. No, that's good. I do have a Blue Sky account. Okay, there you go. It's going to be perfectly true. Get off the podcast. I don't use it. I have one. I try to cross post on there sometimes. I'm just kind of lazy about it. I don't, I want people to be able to get stuff wherever they want it, right?

28:44 So yeah, anyway. Yeah, I was for that, I mean, for the five weeks, the first couple of weeks I was really sick. My whole family, we just get sick, because my kids are in school and that just happens. And the veganism is true. In the veganism. Yeah. So I was a couple of weeks just like, hold up in bed and watch Netflix for the first time in years.

29:03 That was interesting. Breaking bad is pretty good. I'd never watch Breaking Bad. And like everybody talks about breaking bad is like, gonna watch Breaking Bad. Anyway, I watched some Netflix. And then I would say the last few weeks, a lot of time golfing ironically, got back into golf. Just hanging out with my wife.

29:20 We played a lot of tennis while the boys were still in school. Just a lot of time offline. It was the most offline. I think I've been, yeah, in my career. So I'm 15 years. How are you feeling now? I feel amazing. Yeah, so I came back. I'm just now getting started working on some stuff again with the OpenCode team.

29:40 And it was like, I feel like I came back right as the team, the team won just grew a lot. So we just hired a bunch of people. And I've kind of seen how a lot of the team members have found a healthy way to work with AI and like just seeing their perspectives on how they use it to kind of like generate better code and focus on like spinning more time, trying to drive toward a given outcome as opposed to go really fast, cover a lot of ground, like all the kind of stuff that I got into that was so unhealthy.

30:13 So kind of like going more into the craft and trying to go back to, we're just going to get to really good outcomes and use these tools to get us to better outcomes. And we would have taken a time to get to before. So yeah, it feels like most of the team has kind of converged on this very healthy way to approach AI coding.

30:31 And that's been helpful, like I can kind of reframe how I view this stuff. It's still a little scary, like I don't know, like am I just one prompt away from just like crazy obsession again, I hope not. But yeah, it's felt good. It's been like a week and a half now, I've been back. Is there anything that starts to kind of trigger that feeling like is there a specific type of response or something that you can feel yourself drifting towards or is it just all general usage?

30:58 I don't know. I don't really feel like I'm going to go back at this point. I feel like it's some kind of hype cycle thing where once you're on the other side of that peak, you're probably like you have the perspective, you're not going to fall back into it. But yeah, I can't say for sure, I guess. I don't know really what triggered at the first time.

31:16 I just think it was kind of like feeling that this thing is more intelligent than the previous models. And so maybe that's it. Maybe some new model comes out and all the hype that happens and all the excitement. And it does something, some unique thing that the other model has always failed at. And you're like, oh my god, this one.

31:31 This one's it. It's here to save us all. Walk us through, you get a new ticket, Adam. How are you going to fit? How does that go now? I'm interested to hear on that. What's a ticket? You know, an issue on GitHub or something that you're going to go fit. Yeah, not like for speeding. Adam, it's like for developers are like teased where when they ship code, they get a lot of these issue reports on it.

31:54 You're probably not as familiar with that. You guys know who you are. Big fan, big fan. I get a lot of tickets. My boss keeps sending them to me. He says we have AI. He's making 10X the tickets. He's coding now, too. So that's really fun. By the way, it's time for me to think it's like traffic tickets.

32:11 But no, it's like raffle tickets. The more you have, the more you win. That's how it works. Yeah, it's a 50X raffle, exactly. Well, I think for one thing, the models have gotten so much faster. So the GPD models, which I only really use those, I don't really use the anthropic models have always been fast.

32:27 But now they're fast enough that you don't really have to do the whole paralyzed thing. You don't feel like you're wasting 10 minutes if you prompt and then just wait for it. Used to it. Took so long, you needed something else going on. So I've stopped the parallel stuff. I'm not trying to do anything like that.

32:43 And just focusing on a single task, getting on Discord, we've just got so much going on in our team channels now. We've grown to more 20 people or whatever. So in between prompts, I can kind of catch up with the team or do stuff that I need to do on the open source side. That's been the healthy approach, I think, is just not trying to, just having a perspective that more code being slung into the code base is not more productive.

33:06 That's not the goal. Because you start to kind of feel like, how much can I output or how much can I churn? How big of a diff can I create every day? That kind of, in your right mind, you know that that's not it. But in the middle of it, for some reason, that starts to become this game. You feel like there's a super, it's Gary Tan on Twitter.

33:29 You just start to, you can relate with, or I can relate with all the things he says where, you can just see the AI cyclosis so clearly, like, start to feel so powerful. Like, I'm amazing. I'm going to need a new USB-C cord. That's how I'm going on this thing. A lot of focus. That was going to be my follow-up question, actually, in case he was.

33:48 How many USB-C cords did you go through during that? I don't even know if Adam gets the joke. I don't actually, yeah, not really embarrassed. I don't think it was while you were offline, but there's a great, which we still are trying to determine. We cannot figure out, is it satire or not? We don't know.

34:06 But Gary Tan made a post about how like guys, burn it through so many tokens with Cloud Code over here. And my USB-C cable burned up. Does anyone know what the rating is for tokens on these bad boys? I have, I luckily have it actually on Quick Pullup on the app that I, of course, vibe coded. I have my own Gary section.

34:28 And this is it right here. Is it possible I use Cloud Code so much? Somehow, my USB-C connectors burned out on my MacBook Pro. Two of mine are dead and won't charge, and now the third max is out of 15 watts. Now I'm afraid my code Tomagotchi is about to die. So, you know, Adam, maybe you didn't go far enough into.

34:48 Maybe not. Maybe you only saw the first, the first circle of, yeah, it's like I was just, Gary Tan is out of here in the center. Yeah. The only problem with my current perception of Gary is, I don't think anybody is smart enough to write satire that good. So I don't understand, I don't understand it anyways.

35:11 So, there you go. There's only a few world famous comedians, and I just don't know if he is one of them. That's what I'm saying, like I just, yeah. Just showed up in the lost or suit, dude. That's true. I mean, I don't know. Maybe he's like way further ahead than we think in terms of the comedy cycle.

35:30 Yeah. Anyway, so here's a stupid question for you, Adam. Like, are you guys gonna add something to open code that's like, if you would like to turn this on, this is an AI psychosis detector? Like it's like, we will, we will put up a thing that's like warning, you have freaking five instances of this thing running and it's been going for over 24 hours and we are very worried that you need to like see a psychologist right now, just, you know, no judgment, just to tell you.

36:04 Yeah, it's like the old Wii pop up. It's like, maybe we should go outside now. Yeah. Take a break. I'm not really joking. I was like, it all seems like it's actually really a thing. I don't think we've talked about it, but given my history with it and the damage it did to my mental health, it's not a terrible idea.

36:21 I kind of like it. It seems like, you know, as long as it's opt-in, I can't imagine people would complain, right? Like, it's like, you turn it on. You turn it on. There needs to be a way to like vote for your friend that it gets turned on. So like, if you're like, nine of your friends like suggest that it gets turned on for your account, then it turns it on for you.

36:41 Yeah. So open, you have to put in like your ex handle and Twitter, it'll go like crawl. We have to see who your friends are. And it'll let a look to see if they start saying things and it'll go like, okay, we're turning on the AI's like, oh, it's a detector for you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Have we thought about just asking the AI's if they have problems?

37:01 Yeah. So is it hard working on a AI product when you have to detox from AI? Cause like, it's kind of like, it's like, it's kind of like, oh, I was a cocaine addict, but I have to work it at a cartel. The cocaine DNA or someone where like cocaine's around all the time, right? And it's like, yeah. I wanted to try and get off this stuff, but people are asking, like, is this pure?

37:26 You know, it's like, you know, that's a part that I kind of, I feel like I've forgotten. That was definitely part of the psychology of that initial getting so hard into it because I would just tell myself, like, if I'm not using this, why would I expect anyone else to use it? So it kind of convinced me.

37:42 Yeah, even if I wanted to write something by hand, I would be like, no, I should try and do it with the AI. So I think I did kind of get forced into the reliance and the daily usage of it. Maybe that led to the obsession. Yeah, I don't know, I'm a week and a half in. Like, it's a little scary that I'm going to continue to use these things and I don't know exactly what it was, you know, that triggered it in the past.

38:03 Are you, are you now doing things more by hand? Is it, or is it still, like, do you still effectively operate the same or has any sort of challenge? No, yeah. I mean, the change is mostly just slowing down and realizing, like, the goal and, like, what, you know, what am I measuring week to week? What's important?

38:20 It's not, I don't know, how many big PRs I can merge. It's more like outcome based. So I've definitely slowed down, but I am, I'm in mostly just generating stuff. I'm not writing a lot by hand. I'm definitely reviewing, like, I was in the beginning. I kind of got out of that in the middle of the psychosis because I wasn't even looking at the code anymore.

38:38 You're just like, there's no time to read code. We must keep going. OK, so yeah, I've, oh, go ahead. You know, if you're still going along live, because that's going to slightly. I was going to say, like, in my experiences, probably the person on this call with the second closest thing to AI psychosis at any point, or at least, like, I use the models a lot more than Casey for sure and more than Prime.

39:03 Like, if you stop reviewing for, like, a week, sometimes it feels like, OK, for something, but then you look back and you're like, why is there 500 instances of is record in this code base? What? And it's just literally a function. Function is record type unknown returns is record type 35. And you're like, OK, if it did that, what else did I not notice in the last week?

39:32 Like, if it couldn't even figure out that we have a function called is record, which already we banned from the code base. And I wrote, like, some of these I literally have, like, ESLint style rules that automatically check. The model does it so often that I, like, made something like, this function name is banned.

39:48 We don't do that function here. There will be no, even if there's an actual reason to check for is record, we don't do that here. Well, I'm wondering, the goal here, I think, originally, was they're trying to provide a tool that does what programmers generally do. And so they looked across the code bases and were like, you know what?

40:11 Most production code bases have about 15 functions called is record, and they all do the same thing. Some of them may have slight differences so that you don't get exactly the same, depending on which one you accidentally called. So here you go, guys. We've delivered to you exactly what you wanted, something that produces code just like you wrote.

40:31 It does in a way. It kind of does feel like the AI is the most human when it's retarded. Yeah, it's like that probably happened in the base code bases of this thing read, right? Yeah. But so from my side out of my wondering if a lot of it now is more like, it's just about, and as a human, I can't focus on 10 things deeply at the same time, right?

40:56 So when I thought I could do, if you thought you could run 10 agents simultaneously, focus all them deeply, that doesn't really, that doesn't make sense with my experience or the people that I know. So then it's like, is it just that now you feel like your brain it stays turned on the whole time, you're focusing on one thing, even though maybe the LLM still writing a lot of the code for a certain task.

41:19 That's the main difference. I'm trying to sort of piece out where you think like that, that's the distinction. Man, I don't know, the tell for me is like, I sleep fine. So I don't know exactly, like when that would go, if you know, what would be the first signs I would notice that I'm slipping back into it.

41:38 You guys have me a little worried to be honest now that I've talked to the whole thing, like I'm a little unedged, and I can sit back and do that. We'll be on the lookout for you, don't worry. Yeah, please do, and that's amazing. I don't know like, nobody really said anything to me. I don't remember people being like, hey, I think you have a problem with this.

41:51 To be fair, we couldn't see what your sleep schedule was. If you share your Google Fit analytics or something, I can give them a look out for you. That's right, we'll monitor your sleep schedule and email you as soon as we take them down to the list. I'm just gonna feel quick. I'm just gonna take a quick 15 hours to build a quick agent to be able to monitor you if that's the only thing I can do.

42:13 So actually, I do have some real questions, which is, you know, what was, we were our questions, our questions. I was asking real questions. Okay, I have a real or questions, buddy. All right, these are some real heart-hitting questions. Okay, real question here coming in hot. With your life, your life is a bit unusual.

42:34 And I'm not just talking about being a vegan. Like if you look over a lot of the people between the ages of 22 to 30 right now, they don't have, they're not married, they don't have kids, they don't have kind of, this kind of more well-established kind of road. They don't have muscles, they don't, they read meat regularly.

42:51 They're probably on AdRoll, they don't have like a lot of, they don't have, this is my, this is like 85% of the valley, right? I'm like, I spot on the polygon. So far, this is a real question. This is my question. My questions were just these fake, fake loser questions. The crime comes in with this description of the average person in the valley.

43:15 I don't even know where, I don't know, where is that, is Nebraska? Is it Silicon Valley? Where is that person eating red meat? No, has no muscles, they're just a fat blob that oozes a log the ground. You like, what, what, what is that for the valley's like? Anyways, can somebody please take what he just said, feed it into like mid-Journey and see what comes out as the drawing.

43:40 So we could post it here right to see what, what is Frank talking about? Okay, I want it. I want Prime's question though, just if someone can in the comments, leave the LinkedIn version of this question. I want the LinkedIn. Okay, we'll think we're all saying they want versions. I want like a cartoon version where it's like the drawing in the guitar music, like drawing the person as I speak.

44:01 Okay, so this, like the average, the average developer right now does not look like your life. Like I'm just gonna throw that out there. I don't think the average young person typically has this type of life, a house, stability, family, kids, all that kind of stuff, right? Just all, all by statistical purposes, everyone is getting married significantly later, having kids way later.

44:22 How do they, and also friendships are completely like cratering right now? So how do they have the same people that can speak into their life? Or how do they recognize that they're in psychosis? Like what is your advice for somebody who right now is jacked out of their mind, Silicon Valley vampire ring right now, but they have nobody to speak into the life.

44:41 Like what would, what would you say, or how would you say for them to recognize that they're in a bad place? Man, I mean, to recognize it, I would say, yeah, it's looking at your, your health. Are you abandoning habits you had before? This is basic like addiction stuff. If you're like choosing to do this to send prompts instead of, you know, working out or whatever you were doing before that was healthy, that's a problem.

45:08 In terms of like how it play, I mean, I didn't have somebody intervene. I just kind of like, it ran its course. Like you said, your wife feel like, bro, you're not sleeping anymore. You're bringing your, you're bringing your laptop to bed. I don't really like this. Yeah, and once we stopped that, once that became like, no, we're not gonna have, we're not gonna have that going on.

45:25 I think it did start to get a little better, but it didn't really prevent the burnout, didn't prevent me crashing pretty hard. Because I mean, I say here for eight hours a day, it's the cocaine thing. It's like, I am going to go to work today, and like that's gonna be an exposure that is gonna keep the thing going.

45:41 So I don't know if like, if intervention is a thing that's all that, because like for every one friend that if you did have one that told you, hey, I think you're going a little hard on this, you can find like 10 people online that are like, no man, you're not going hard enough. Like, you gotta go harder.

45:57 Cause it's very much a culture right now. And I think like that typical, especially if you're talking about a developer from Silicon Valley, like I think they're immersed in a group that thinks this is, this is how work looks now. Yep. So yeah, I don't know. I think just kind of it's a course. I don't really know that you're gonna get talked out of it.

46:15 Do a post, tag Ryan Flurry, and see if he says delete your account in their apply. That's a pretty good metric. I would be honored. Yeah. And like that would be my, I was like, if he says that's chill, you're good. You don't have it. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. That's a good point. Just put CC Ryan Flurry at the end of your piece.

46:38 And if he replies, delete your accounts, then you know you got it. I got it. So I got it. Done. The official diagnosis. I would say you go to the doctor and you're like, sorry, I just, I got to delete your account from Ryan Flurry today. I'm worried that I'm really in trouble. Like that, my, I'm, I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you another test of maybe more serious one that I think you can do.

47:07 If you find yourself agreeing with everything someone who has a large monetary incentive reason to sell you on, right, like, oh, Anthropic says, all of software dev is cooked in six months from now. There will be no reason to have skill. And then you look at their website and they're spending a bunch of money hiring people.

47:30 And you say, but I agree with what they're saying in the, in the, in the pitch. That's like a good, that should be a little at least tickle in the back of your mind that like, hmm, maybe the billions of dollars that they have on the line are an incentive for them to mislead me and make me be in a bad plan.

47:47 You know, I think that that's like, that's an easy one to see online. If you're agreeing with everything Dario says, that's bad guys, that's bad. Yeah, there's definitely a flavor of it. Like, there's a flavor of the psychosis, these types that I don't understand really, like, what would motivate someone to be so, like, aligned with technology in general.

48:09 It's like, if you try to say anything bad about AI or about, you know, what's going on with the big model ads, like, they're there to defend. And they're just like this random account on X. Like, they clearly have something going on in their brain, just like technology enthusiasts or something. Maybe this predates the AI psychosis.

48:26 Maybe this is going on. Oh, yeah, it happened with like VAM and programming languages. Defending technology has happened forever. Like, this is definitely nothing new, but I will say that the, the fervency of it is unique in the sense that, with like zero, zero is a good example of this. There was somebody in the comments was like, man, zero's awesome.

48:47 I can't wait to try it. It's just like, okay, how can it be awesome and you've never tried it? It's like something so broken to this entire idea. Like, this doesn't make any sense. Like, you're so glued to whatever they send you that you're like, this is the best thing ever. I will now try it and it will be the best thing ever, right?

49:05 Like, that is definitely some form of reality misstepping there. I have a question. Is it also, is it a real one KC or is it just kind of like a throw away? No, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's only a half and half question. Because I don't really know, like, this is not my, this is not my, these are not my money's not my circus, right?

49:29 Like, they're, this is a whole, I don't know anything about any of this, right? But I wanted to ask, like, would it also be a good sign since we're talking about signs? If you start really getting excited about the G stack. So would that be a good sign that maybe you've gone to for if you're like, oh my God, the G stack.

49:51 Is anyone really excited about that? I don't know, but I feel like if you were, I mean, yeah, that would definitely, yeah. I mean, I have, I have received not just one, but we're talking about dozens of comments being like, this bro's just angry because his skills have been reduced down to an MD file that Gary made, either like that kind of stuff.

50:09 So yeah, all right. Well, okay, but to be fair, like, for you pro, no, I mean, yeah, I'm just saying for me, it's okay. We're like, Casey, he can't reduce him down to an MD. I think why is there no P stack prime? Why, why haven't you made it? No, no, no, no. You're going straight. It's all wrong. I'm not even joking.

50:29 Why have you not made a competitor to the G stack called P stack on stream? I would watch the heck out of that. Okay, to be fair, I am in the process, and I've been experimenting for the last couple months, making prime agent. Okay, there we go. That's all I wanted to do. That's all I needed to hear.

50:44 Yeah, it's a different. It's a different, you know, take on the whole thing. Okay. I would also say it's finding like the P stack is not as sort of like mythical as finding the G stack. Okay. So this is more, yeah, less to brag about you. It's not that big a deal. I said, I couldn't imagine people. I think I'm just not imagining programmers who are like taking Gary Tansier's sleep, but there probably is a group of like business pros, like non-technical folks that are like, Gary's on to something and they probably aren't impressed.

51:18 So yeah, that would be a tell. So I guess like, we should probably wrap up here, right? I mean, Adam, what's the closing? Like what's, I guess your takeaway kind of sounds like, you're not sure yet. Like it's like, we're kind of just in the early stages of this and like you're gonna come on in six months and tell us what actually happened, I guess, sort of.

51:40 Yeah, I mean, I think my particular story's still being written. It's possible, it's possible. I feel back into it. I just imagine it though, like the hype cycle. Like the, I just imagine that's kind of what everybody goes through. You go through this crazy peak where you're like, this is God technology and then eventually you fall off and now I'm on that slow steady climb and trying to figure out how to make this stuff actually help me day to day.

52:04 So I think that's the long kind of healthy journey I'm on right now. That's my hope. I think you're gonna do great, Adam. Yeah, thanks, Teague, appreciate that. So I do, okay, can I have one more question for you? Okay. Real one, of course. Adam, you've always been a very, very good programmer. Like I've worked with lots of people.

52:26 There's, there's few people who I would love to work with you being one of them. Do you actually feel like you're getting this massive multiplier or are you still on this thing where you're, you're convincing yourself that you're getting this multiplier because when you're in like a code base, you're super familiar with and you're making changes.

52:42 A lot of times it can be quite quick for you to just be like, I know this so well, I know exactly what I want. But due to habit or like, no, I have to do it this way. You're doing these like different loops. What are you actually getting that? That's it. So I would say I'm obviously biased. The cocaine factory thing.

53:01 I can't, can't escape the fact that I'm pretty invested in these types of tools for programmers. So that's pretty well kept me using the tools and not doing things by hand. And I've been pretty vocal that I miss a lot of that. Like I miss the, just what my work days look like practically where I'd spend six hours on kind of a not in this stuff that I knew I needed to bang out.

53:26 And I could listen to music. I've, I've been realizing I just completely throughout your question. I'm just kind of like rambling about what I miss. That's why it's, I mean, it's, it's something that I don't think the genie's going back to the bottle at this point for me. At least not in the near term.

53:43 There is a part of me that kind of like hopes the whole thing just crashes and burns. And we all go back to writing code and like they can't afford the data centers or something. And like all of it just goes away. But yeah, as long as I'm, you know, focused on open code and working on this stuff, I don't think there's a world where I'm going to spend a lot of time not using these tools.

54:01 Was that your question? I don't even remember. I was kind of asking more about whether you think there's actually a productivity multiplier that you can say is significant. Yeah, I think you're going to have familiarity. Like, you know, you were a very, very good programmer. You keep saying, I think I'm just so distracted by the flattering comments.

54:18 I think I work really hard. I think my thing is I go very hard. I don't think I'm a very good programmer. It's such a funny way to say like good programmer. Well, see, if you work with me, I would work really hard on the problem and do a good job. So you wouldn't really call me a good programmer. Right, right.

54:33 Exactly. No, no, no, no. I'm sorry, for someone who doesn't really work very hard. I don't really like doing a bad job. Yeah. Crazy. I mean, like, I would do terrible in like an interview or something like on a whiteboard, but like, I can throw effort and don't worry about that. Yeah, probably. Do I think it's a productivity increase?

54:52 I think like the way I'm seeing and Dax has talked about this a lot publicly, I am seeing how you can justify putting a lot of effort into stuff that before you couldn't, because this thing does, it eliminates a lot of the tedium. So like, you can actually try to get the better outcomes with your code in ways that you wouldn't justify, you know, in the past, maybe you'd just say like we're going to shelf this.

55:13 We know it's not ideal, but we're going to come back and take another pass later. Now you can kind of do all the passes at once and kind of hone in on making something what you really want to see, like the shape of it or whatever, make the code how you like it in an ideal state. So I do think it's an increase in that.

55:31 I don't know if that's productivity. I don't even know how to define productivity at this point. We know it's not lines of code. It's not lines of code removed. It's not diff sized. I don't know what it is. It doesn't feel like we're necessarily shipping a lot more features, but I do think it could allow us to ship better systems with the same amount of effort.

55:52 That's my current view of it. That might change in three months. It might change in a year, but that's kind of how you're right now. Yeah, I've found for me personally just like, there's stuff even like if you say, oh, it's like dumb simple thing or whatever, but it's like, oh, this function, like the shape of it is wrong, but it's not to me, you can just like right click, refactor, and it's like it's shaped wrong in some way that can't be mechanically done by like a language server or something, right?

56:22 And maybe you have like 200 uses of it or something like that. And now I feel very easy to be like, switch this to this way. It should look kind of like this. If you run into something that's weird, send me the list of them that were weird, go, and then like, which before I would just say like, sorry guys, like we didn't have time for this.

56:42 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's tasks like that that just weren't really on the table that now, it's so good at those types of things. I would say it's like certain things sped up a lot, but if the end of the day the bottleneck is still kind of the same, which is like most of us don't have good things to work on or we don't know what we should work on.

56:58 And that's like the product decision making and all the hard things that come into it. Like that stuff's ended up being the bottleneck anyway and you can kind of outpace that stuff with just like, what if I just refactored it again or what if I had it look for performance improvements and did that overnight and we did it like every night.

57:16 There's like a lot of just wake up four times in the night to make some performance going. Stop sleeping and keep rewriting the code. Well, there's been some kind of an awkward ending. No, no, it's not awkward ending. It's actually a great ending. We're all just considering, we're all bathing in what you're saying.

57:30 Because all of us has varying levels of A.I. psychosis at this place. And some of us, maybe we have anti-A.I. psychosis. People have been saying that's a real thing here. Maybe half of me, I have two wolves in me, one half battling it, one half going forward. I don't know. I'm very confused right now.

57:47 A.I.C. confused, boy. And A.I. racist, you know? You've got to get you're an A-sist. I'm an A-sist, it's very difficult. But yeah, we are just all really appreciating what you're saying because it is, I mean, no matter what someone's opinion is on A.I., it is single-handedly the biggest thing that has happened in the average developer's life, at least, in the last quite a few years.

58:10 You know, there has not been such a big change of possibility for a long, long time. So I don't know. I find it very interesting. I think so. Are you going to start the Adam Foundation, which is going to be like a place for people who have A.I.C. likeosis. Like I could imagine like an actual thing for treating this or I don't know what you would call it.

58:35 Kind of not really joking. Like I feel like there's enough people that would have said they've had this that there should be a thing that's like, give generously to the Adam Foundation for, you know, treating A.I.C.S. like those arcs, right? And then like step two, you've got to give them the cocaine.

58:50 And then they, oh that was, that was a mix of that of course. No, no, no, no, bad, we've backslid poorly. I thought that was in the movie, isn't that what the show, isn't that what he's watching? Anyway, give generously to the Adam Foundation. Everyone out there, once we found it, of course. And once we figure out how to actually cure A.I.C.S.

59:09 Right, that too. But if they could give us the money first. It's just going outside. They'll give us the money first and then we'll figure out how to cure it later. I mean, that's how that, you know, it's kind of like, it worked for, what was it, the like Lance Armstrong thing where he's constantly like, give us money to cure cancer.

59:24 And you're like, have you cured it yet? You're like, ah, you know, we're working on it. I do love the idea that like a doctor, you can have like a really serious doctor writing down a note. Yeah. And you look at the prescriptions like, take a hike. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, no golfing, some grass and go golfing.

59:41 You're like, damn. I actually took a hike this morning. I took an hour hike in the woods this morning. I've been doing that every week and that's helped me a lot. Just generally with my mental health. So getting outside. You're supposed to call me when you do those so we can talk. You keep saying, I'll call you when I'm walking so we can catch up.

59:58 And now you just out of yourself, Adam. Yeah. You just told me, I spent a whole hour walking by myself and I didn't even call you. I'm so sorry. Imagine how much more soothing it would have been to take a walk in the woods with teach talking at a few times, instead of the beautiful sounds of nature, which are terrible for a ice like Oasis.

1:00:16 Exactly. I could have started reading him the Vim manual. Yes. Come on. Think about all the positive things that they could read to him. All right, folks. Yeah, we got to come. Do you want to do a closer here? You want to close us out? Honestly, I'm not sure if we really need a closer at this point. I think this happens.

1:00:35 We just wave goodbye. Well, thanks, Adam, for coming on. It's been great. Thanks for having us. By the way, it's Adam.dev on Twitter on Twitch. You also did some YouTube videos in the past. You'd been around. You work at OpenCode. Try out OpenCode today at OpenCode.ai. That's right. That's right. There we go.

1:00:53 Everyone, bye.