Trash vs Linux

Can we find the G spot, the general intelligence spot? I just need to know what it is and if it's possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! Anyway, sorry. I mean, look at all the kinds of intelligence. AGI is just another OOP problem. It is an underspecified acronym. And so people end up getting in disagreements about it because they're both thinking of a different thing, right?

And so like, it's a really bad term now because it's just like, people can go 12 rounds fighting about whether it has or hasn't been achieved. And neither of them are thinking of, like, they're not thinking of the same definition, right? So it's kind of a problem. And fighting about terminology is such a waste of time.

But who decides, like, who writes the test to decide if it's like AGI? Trash, I think you should. I think you should. I think you should. We might have achieved it at this point, according to my standard. Well, that's the problem is that it's just not a good, it's not good to just have a label and to not have a very specific set of things.

You should just talk about the specific set of things. Right. Well, also it feels like the average person's definition of what AGI was, we definitely already hit. Which was like a computer I can talk to and it talks back in like a way that would trick me. It's like I feel like a touring test. But I'm saying that's like what, if I think of like what I thought AGI would have to be like 10 years ago, I'd be like, well, we'll probably never get it to where I can just like talk to the computer and I can say like, hey, go research like how people use list versus factor in 40 different languages and come back with a summary table and like show me that and like get citations.

And it would like, oh, that seems pretty intelligent. I don't know, I just spoke to it and it did research and came back to me. Like I would have been like, yes, that's for sure it. But then now I feel like, yeah. There's like essentially, you know, all these different definitions that people could have for it.

Right. And one is just like, it wasn't specifically, like nobody specifically programmed it to handle the exact thing that you're asking it to do would be one of them, right? Like it's just got a broad range of things to do. And that seems like clearly we have that, right? Like it, it clearly can respond to a very wide of things even if the programmer is originally doing it didn't do it.

There's another version of it, which is like, can it do things that it wasn't trained on? And that's a lot harder because it seems like currently that's sort of not true. Like the more you give it tasks that were intentionally created to be outside of the set it could have seen, the more they fail, right?

And so like someone arguing that AGI is that has a very strong argument that it hasn't been achieved, right? Another version of AGI is that it doesn't need training in a way, right? It's just like a human where it's just like, if you just put it out in the world with no, like we didn't have to make a transformer set for it, we didn't have to, we didn't have to structure like here's all the things it goes through.

Like it's just this general thing and no matter what you do, you hook it up to any bunch of robotics and it just becomes as smart as a person, right? Well, we're nowhere near that, right? Like who knows how long maybe a couple years away, maybe 50 years away, maybe hundreds of years away, we just don't know, right?

And so there's, I think the problem is just like, when people talk about AGI, everyone's coming with a different idea of what that is. And so they can get in these really big arguments like, no, of course it's not AGI or yes, of course we have it and they're both kind of right. It's just you have to say like what is the thing you actually, which are the properties?

And so I always like it to Oop, because it's like people are like Oop is good, Oop is bad, Oop is bad. I'm like somebody say what is the implementation of this specific thing in Oop, right? And whenever I get one of those, I'm like this is bad and here's why. But then in very many people are like, no, but that's not really it, right?

And so AGI feels a lot like that where it's like, just stop talking about that thing. Let's talk about the actual specific things and then we can have a more productive argument. I mean, not me, because I don't really care what these do or it's like. But the people who care very passionately could argue, can it do this exact specific thing and you could come to a conclusion, right?

Komish, you got to listen to me. Oh no, now one more comment from you. I'm done rebasing your mistakes. You're not a junior CSS student, I'll further notice. Komish, you can't do this to me. Keep talking and you'll be doing store procedures for a month. Now get out of here, take him with you. Fun fact, CSS is actually touring complete.

Merge cop. Merge cop. Merge cop. Larry Gary Tango, Mary. I just pull in your request. It looks good to me, you're clear to ship. Thanks. You're welcome, next. It's an awfully big PR for an intern. Well, I just bumped some dependencies. It's nothing major. Hey, can I get a quick stamp on this? Yeah, don't worry about it.

Quick approval, not on my watch. I'm on your diff, like a peat has a slight drop. This again, it's literally just a hexco change, just approve it, just approve it. Squish, part for resisting review. Oh, I know you're the diff, where I've seen five coatings, but that ain't it. Merge cop! No! Merge cop!

I hate Merge cop. He always makes reviewing take forever. We have code rabbit. Oh, come on, I wasn't even merging the prod. It was a hexco change. We have code rabbit. We don't need real people reviewing such simple changes. Code rabbit can do it for us. Our engineer's time is better spend solving problems for customers.

You can try it too, at code rabbit.ai. Next week on Merge cop. Now my plan to merge a dip so big. You're the dimpler and I always knew it. Master! This is like talking to Adam last episode where we were like, Adam, you're a really good programmer. And then he's like, no, I'm not. I just, and then he listed a bunch of all of the things what a great programmer is.

And then he's like, but I'm like, no, Adam, that means you're a great programmer. And he goes, well, I can't. And then he, I don't do data searchers and algorithms or something. Right, I'm like, oh, and you can't solve elite code hards. Who cares? I don't care. I'm not selling elite code hards. I'm selling to a customer.

All right. So what I've been told or what I'm kind of coming, or getting out of this conversation is that AGI is a lot like a Scotsman and communism. There's just have, it hasn't really been tried yet. And that's the reason why we're not. No, no, no, we're not getting it. It's more like Oop, right? Like it's more like that where it's like, you get this wrong.

It's because you didn't do Oop. Right. You didn't do the real version of Oop. That's why it's wrong. It fails. It's because there's no true Oop. I get, I mean, that's one way that people will try to defend it. But I'm just saying that like in that particular case, it's like which parts of it did you actually mean is the more important analogy for me?

As opposed to something like communism, where it's like real communism has never been tried or stuff like that. Look, no one is actually saying that this particular thing was working in practice in the past. But you know, there's working Oop code bases, right? Like there's a ton of them. So it's not like you try it and your entire project is never gonna ship or something like that, right?

True. So I would say AGI is more like that because some definitions of it, like Teach was saying, clearly are working. Like just the most limited definition of it seems to have succeeded. And so if someone was saying AGI hadn't been achieved and they meant that, I'd be like, well, no, it kind of has been or at least can you see why someone would think that that very weak version has been, right?

And that's where I think you get into that trouble. Just it's just so poorly defined that you can't really argue about what hasn't hasn't worked. Okay. Well, it's a very important time of the podcast. It's not where we do the intro. It's where we ask Trash, what are the snacks you eating? Cause I can hear your little, I can hear your little thing he's getting the bag and making the sound of everything.

So what are you eating? What is it? Tell us about it. Intrasher, imagine the day, bro. I guess we're not. Pogorner's Kevl Korn. And then I'm me and Teaser Mashing with the, yeah. You'll, yeah. And they just released ready to go. Yay. I got ready. So they just released last week and I tagged Teach. They just released all red packs.

So I don't, I typically only eat these two and boom. I do it. I'm so happy like my wife linked it to me. And I was like, what? And I ordered like six bags and like two seconds. Nice. Seriously, yum Earth, please reach out to us. I, I desperately want to get paid to eat candy so badly. I know, I honestly don't understand how you guys do not have a snack sponsor for Trash yet.

Like what is going on? Oh, yeah. You want to know my snack is? No. Nobody does. All I want to know what Trash is, is that why I can't believe he doesn't have a drug snack sponsor. Yes, sourdough bread, I bet. Banana bread. Oh, oh, whoa, where did that come from? Does someone just throw that in your hand?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I caught it. I didn't know there was a second one coming in. My wife surprised me, but I caught that one like an animal. Okay, so I have a slight blocker. So my wife's been buying these bananas and not eating them. So we have like until the bananas turn black and we have like an infestation of fruit flies.

And I cannot get it. I basically smash like 10 every time I go into the kitchen. I'm like, I'm psyched. And we threw the bananas away, but they're still here. I just can't get rid of them. I just don't know how. So you have an infestation of banana bread, potential banana bread, and then you throw it away.

Well, we were supposed to use it, but it gets to the point where it's just way too gross and you just can't use it at that point. So now we just. That's what you use it is when it turns black. Trash good. I think you're into the fruit flies though. You get like a mason jar, but a piece of paper. So it makes a cone.

Then inside of the mason jar, you leave like a little piece of fruit and then maybe some like water or something else inside of there. So then I fly in. We can't figure out how to fly out. I was doing that with apple cider vinegar. You poke that word, Sarah. Really? You do the same thing for mice. If you have a mouse problem, you get a big bucket, a five gallon bucket.

You drill two holes in it, put a small fin, like rotating metal like dowel rod in between them, put peanut butter on it, and then a little ramp up to it. So the mice go up the ramp. They try to walk on the round thing. They fall off and they land into water, and then they drown slowly. This is going to be a great episode.

I can tell this is a great episode of the fandom already. This is not the case. In this episode, everyone talks about how to make a little trap for a fruit fly. And people are like, oh my God, I have to click on this. To be fair, fruit fly management strategies, that's got great long-term SEO KC. People aren't going to be dealing with that forever.

Prime escalated into drowning rats. Yeah, by the way, yeah. Have you heard about it? Have you heard about it? Have you heard about it? No, no, this is, dude, this is lesser evil. Yeah, yeah, the Himalayan salt one. Yeah, I haven't seen Himalayan salt one. It's good. I have the question trash. I have a question about your narrative.

I have a question about your narrative. My narrative. Yeah, the narrative that you laid out, I'm wondering if there was a step missing. When you said, my wife bought a lot of bananas, and now we have a lot of fruit flies, and I have to kill like 10 at a time or whatever. My question is, do you mean I have to first photograph them using my receipts app, and then kill 10 of them at a time?

Or what? We're beyond that, okay? We're back on our own. Okay, relationship. Okay. I'm back to being a good husband, okay? Okay, that's good, that's good trash. I'm back to being, by the way. Back to being a good husband is starting the episode off by throwing your wife under the bus. I'm about to say this, you bought a bunch of bananas that she doesn't like.

I didn't take a picture of it, I think. I don't think I did. Okay, all right. Hey, Prime, do you wanna do an intro to this week's episode of the standup? Welcome to the standup, the world's most attended that someone really just did around me that quickly. The world's most attended standup. All the interns are here, they're ready, they're willing to listen to the mandatory optional all hands meeting today.

And today we have a very special one, trash. Chief snack officer has been going on an adventure with Linux and is here to present us what it looks like when someone who's used Mac for the last 10 years attempts to use Linux. Is this about correct? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I can't do my math. Yeah, I'm so good.

You know, intro's aren't long trash. That's on you. He's gotta eat the candy now so he's ready for the rest of the pod. Like it makes sense. He's gonna be talking a lot this episode. Okay, take it away, trash. That's the intro. That's it. Is that the intro? So I've been using Linux for about two weeks now.

I will say, nice. I was wrong, right. I think Linux is super fun. But I will say the first week was hell on earth. So before I share this with you, I want to just kind of show you the distros I went through. Just try to even get anything to work. So I'm using this old Macbook Air 2015, I think. Oh, that's a separate issue.

Yeah. Yeah. Super ancient hardware is not that great. It's like the Mac is the main issue. Well, I wiped Mac off of it. Mac doesn't even exist anymore. Oh, the OS at least. But. Well, I just meant the lack of being an open platform. But yeah, true, true, true. So I started off with, so I like I pulled Twitter or whatever, cause I just don't really know what I'm doing.

And I ended up with Fedora. So I installed Fedora first. Is that good? I don't even know what that would have been. Reddit's answer. But if it happened Fedora, it's fine. Most of the time, I don't know about on a Mac, but it's fine. The open lack of Fedora users and Mac users trashed. The circle was one when you were doing that.

Yeah, that's true. That's the truth. That's the only reason. You were the first person. Okay, so I used Fedora and actually dude, I love Fedora out of the box. Like the way I use Mac was actually the same way you use Fedora, like I use hot corners. So I use like the top left corner to kind of show like my like mission controller, whatever.

And it was like the defaults of Fedora were exactly like that. However, I could not get fucking internet to work on it. So I had literally no internet on my machine. So what I was doing is I had like chat GPT open on like my other Mac, and I was just hand typing super long commands, just like literally like 200 character line commands.

I was about to lose my mind. And then I got to the point where I bought a, I can't find it, but I bought an ethernet adapter, a USB ethernet adapter because I couldn't get the Wi-Fi drivers to install. So I waited two days for that to ship in. I plug it in. That didn't even work. So I was like, all right, whatever.

So then I tried to reinstall Fedora again, which I did, I did like a different version. And then I got it like in this halfway version. Well, let me finish. So interesting enough, I was able to install the driver's halfway, whatever that means, to the point where my USB ethernet adapter worked, but then my Wi-Fi didn't work.

So as soon as I unplugged the adapter, like I lost all internet, but then I got into this weird thing where my packages were all mismatched, like tried to do like a DNF like install force or whatever, with whatever drivers. And then everything just went coupled. So I was like, all right, after like a week of like trying that, I switched to Linux Mint, Cinnamon or whatever.

Isn't that what, uh, PewDiePie or whatever? I've minted before, I used Mint with I3 for a while. So yeah, so I don't even know what these mean, to be honest. Like Fedora, like, I don't know exactly. It's Fedora cool, I don't know. Linux Mint is that cool? No idea. Linux Mint just looked terrible to me.

So as soon as I installed it, I kind of hated it immediately. But I think it's a, but I think it's supposed to look terrible. Maybe I don't know. So, so the, so I tried the drivers again. I tried to sell the drivers. Hold on, hold on. Well, that's somebody just right now. There's somebody out there that's been like, I've spent my whole life designing Linux Mint.

And then you're like, I think it's designed to look terrible. That's like, they're like just fell off. Like they're meeting in life, just fell apart. As soon as they booted up, I was like, ew, it's like the first thing I saw was like, dude, like that's like my first word that came out of now. But I was like, all right, whatever.

Let me just try to get like internet on this thing. So I plug in the adapter. Of course, that doesn't work. I try Wi-Fi. It doesn't work. And I'm just like, dude, I'm so tired of just like manually typing commands. Like I was talking to Chatchy PT at like the long, it got to the point where I ran out of free credits on Chatchy PT that I actually paid for a $20 play in.

Because I was like, I'm not going to give up because I really gave up for $48. This is good. This is good. Free Linux cost you $20 already. Dude, literally. But like for 48 hours, I gave up, I was like, dude, I need to stupid, I'm not going to that. But I was like, you know what? I'm going to see this through.

Because I went on the Unix port. I'm out of your trash. I went on the Unix port. And I was just like going through the top post. I was like, man, these looks so cool. And I want this. So I was like, all right, Hail Mary, let's just try PapoS. I was kind of against PapoS because it kind of looks like an operating system for little kids.

Because it's like, it's like spaceships and rockets and stuff. And all of this is trash. Dude, what? Trash, trash, trash. What is directly behind you? Yeah. Yeah. All right. I already got a part. This is more. This is more. This is an investment. This is an investment. Okay. This is more of a lot of money.

All right. Yeah. I got Papo. Okay. Can you? Okay. I feel really. Okay. Man, I just got destroyed on that one. Okay. Okay. Come back from that. Yeah. That was tough. All right. That's thanks everybody for this episode. The standard was. It's like. I'm over here, opening my Pokemon cards and eating candy.

And this Linux operating system is making me feel like a child. It has a rocket ship on it. Rockets are for children. And yum earth is for adults. That. Yeah. It's funny. Is that the way I rise state? It's for like a fifteen year old like. Yeah. Yeah. Time. So much. Look, even worse. It will be the judge.

Yeah. We'll be the judge. Yeah. It will be the judge. Yeah. All right. So installed Papo S. That's because everyone said like the drivers are like good like I'll get Wi-Fi out of the box. So I install Papo S and long behold like. Fantastic. It looks great or it doesn't look great. But it works. I was like great.

But then I got to the point where like I just don't like how it looks. to just look terrible. And then someone told me about Hyperland. No idea what Hyperland was. I kind of know what it is now at this point. So I installed Hyperland. And then I switched to Hyperland mode and then I was just so confused.

Literally, the only thing I could do was open up a terminal and I did it by accident. I hit like super enter, I hit super enter whatever and a terminal open. And I was like, wow, super cute. What's happening? And I was like, where's my browser? I was like, where's my status bar? I had literally no idea what to do.

And then thank God for JGPT because I was like, ChadGPT, how do I just open anything in general? Because apparently in Hyperland, literally every single thing you do just needs like a config. So I have like a config for my status bar. I have a config for like Kitty, which is like the default terminal.

And then just like literally anything you would do. So the one I opened it for me was just like just to have a similar experience to Mac or just like all the software I took for granted that was like available when you do install like Windows or Mac. Like this wasn't there by default nor was it set up.

So I was like sitting here kind of stumbling through the terminal only. And what also threw me for loop was like the tile manager. Like everything opens like in its own designated spot. Like nothing's floating by default. So when I was opening stuff, it just like went to like four squares like a Riverside, which I'm not used to.

I kind of like having things floating and I like to move things with my mouse and my mouse just did not work in I Berlin. I was like trying to click on stuff and I was like, what is happening? It's to make things worse. Apparently if you middle click on Linux or me at least maybe in pop OS, I don't know.

It copy and paste like the last thing when you click. So I was trying to click on stuff and I just kept pasting like terminal commands everywhere. And I was like, and I did that for about three days before I was like, all right, something's wrong and I googled it and I was like, oh, that's what's wrong.

So I have to be really careful where I push on my trackpad because I'm using this like, oh, I can turn that off, dude. You can just turn it off. I have it so that I don't have it. I don't have, obviously. But right click is two fingers and the whole thing is left click. So I just don't, I just don't mess that up.

All right, well, now I know where to push in my trackpad. So I've really adapted at this point. Okay, good, good, that's good. All right, so continue though, trash. So you're configuring everything in Hyperland. Yep, so I'm like DotFiles maxed out. I got my DotFiles on GitHub now, you know what I'm saying?

I went on Reddit and I was like research and dude, up to eat out of my mind right now, not even kidding. Like, I used to hate to eat. I was like, dude, cloud covered all this stuff, dude. Like, I'm just gonna use cursor because it's a goob. And now I'm just like, dude, I live in the terminal now. And I'm so, I mean, to be honest, I was like a terminal kid before, like the cursor stuff came out, but I just got tired of it.

You definitely are a terminal kid. I mean, you're still collecting Pokemon. How are you? I don't want my operating system look like it's for adults. I'm never gonna recover from that. I'm never gonna recover from that. I'm not the judge. That was a fatal blow. I know, that was really bad. But let me show you what I got.

And because I'm on Linux, I can't share my screen. So I have a camera pointing at my computer, which I'm gonna switch to. But before I switch because the monitor I'm on for my old Mac just looks like crap. So the colors don't look as cool. But I just want to show you what the colors would look like if they're on a nice monitor.

So here's my, let me see, boom. Look at that. Oh, pretty bad is. So this is like my, can you see that prime? This does look like it's a generic adult. I did, I did put you in big mode. Trash, who's the, who's the wife who? That's the wife who? Yeah, who's the wife who? That's the chicken from Demon Slayer.

So that's the chick from Demon Slayer. I actually have her at my wall here. Also, I can see literally a wall of Demon Slayer right now in Chad being like, dude, so. Yeah, so that's a Demon Slayer from Demon Slayer. And then dude, I went on like a wallpaper spree for like four hours over the weekend just trying to find wallpaper that just look good with like this neon color I got going on, okay?

So I just want to show this before I switch to my camera mode but here, you guys ready for some scuff demoing? Because this is about to get washed. All right, let's go. Hit us. Okay. Okay, hold on. First of all, that's a screenshot. Oh, that's a screenshot. Sorry. That we're currently looking for. Before we keep going, someone says Demon Slayer is a very overrated anime.

Do you have any comments? It is kind of overrated, but I did like, I specifically chose this one because the color just looks sick. Okay. All right. There you go. We just wanted to get it out there. I just wanted to make sure in case there was a fight you wanted to have with anybody you could have. Trash, my favorite anime is the live action remake of one piece.

I hate one piece too. One piece and live action in the same sentence is like gonna trigger me. But here, here's the poster up. Can you see it? Yeah, we can see that. We can see that trash. Oh, it's a delay. That's the poster that's like, right above. But here you go. Oh, there we go. This is the demo for my Linux.

All right, so there's my, there's just my login screen that I had to configure myself by the way. I love that we're getting the blammer witch version of this. Dude, that's that stuff. Oh, God. I just see my password too, dude. Yeah, really? Yeah, I just have my password. I just totally tied my password with like the camera pointing at it.

Is it the one password or? Please tell me it's not the one password. It's like one of my old one passwords that I've just done it strong enough. So I upgraded to a different one password. That's pretty complicated. You wouldn't understand. This other password goes to a different school. This is a, this is a, this is a new password.

It's got a dollar sign in it. Yeah. It's very hard to get. I've had a demo this. This is so hard. This is, okay. So this is my, this is my default screen, right? So this is what I mean, the, good. This is what I mean like with the Thal manager. So I do like command enter, which is like the default. Like it does like the tyling thing.

This one's floating right now. So let me fix that. But this is like the tyling thing. Like it does this thing, which I'm not used to, right? I love that by the way. Huge fan of that plus different dustops make me very happy. Mm-hmm. And then we got the, we got the, obviously you got to have B top on there.

You know what I'm saying? So I got to put on my screen. I'll put on my screen while my wife walks by. So I just like impress her. Yeah. She's like, oh, you're finally working. I asked you, you know what I'm saying? And then you know, then now I'm just like, I got the two we follow manager. I'm using this thing called Yatsi.

Yeah. I don't know if you guys heard of Yatsi. Dude, this thing is sick. I was going to use either a Ranger or Yatsi. But I saw like on Reddit some guy was using Yatsi and this thing was like, super sec. Let me see, what else we got here? We got my work. So I have my, my status bar top, which is customizable.

Usually I turn it off because I don't really need to see that stuff. Oh, trash, that was smooth, dude. That was smooth. Yeah, I could figure it, check this out. So, oh my God, we're, we can see that's perfect. This is all custom artisanal code. Yeah. That is. Did you use it more than it? Is that a way bar?

Yeah, I think way bar is like the main thing people use. So I just made it just, I saw someone on a, I couldn't get any ideas on how to make it look cool. So I went on Reddit and just like saw some guys. I was like, that looks sick. So I just kind of went down a rabbit hole. I like that it's not the full size.

It's a little bit more compacted and doesn't go to the end. It's actually like that. I think that's pretty clever. I'm okay. That's sick. Yeah, initially, I was worried trash initially that you hadn't figured out how to get the screen to extend to the edge of the display. And so we saw that there's a fair assumption.

There's a fair assumption, okay. Here's my dot files. Look at that. I got a knee of them up, you know what I'm saying? Look at it. Look how beautiful this looks. Oh, wait, oh, oh, hold on, hold on. We got the telescope set up. Oh, look at that. Telescope. Yeah, you know, you know. Nice trash, nice. And then we got, obviously I did my dot files in Lua because apparently not doing it in Lua is not cool.

So I switched it to Lua. So now we're on Lua. Oh, we all the new Hyperlanc stuff. The new Hyperlanc Lua can fit. Nice. It looks so much nicer too. Like the way you can just write a Lua just makes it just so much easier to complete. Did you get good auto complete with Lua too? Like were you able to pull down?

I think so. That's pretty decent. It was pretty decent. Pretty decent. I had a pretty good experience. Where are we going here? Number two, my dot files. Check me out. Got my dot files now. Star that bad boy. Guys, get over there. Yeah, star that fast. Make some sense. Don't say. You need some dot files.

You got your anime wife who's inside of there as well. Or do you talk about this separately? Of course, I got my wallpapers, bro. You kidding me? All right. Just make it sure. Just make it sure. I needed to make sure people could have the authentic trash experience. Yeah. And then, and then I have a couple of other modes.

I got a, I haven't set up to like if I just like hotkey like my browser. So if I do like command G opens up another like a browser or whatever. You know what I'm saying? And then what else I got? We got the function keys work. Can you like make the screen brightness go up and down? Or is that a TV? Oh, it's fine now.

That's a good question. That's a good question. Oh, it does work. Yay, yay, yay, yay. Wow. Do not going to lie. I couldn't fix, I couldn't fix my volume for like two days. And then I had to like, because I had to configure it. And then I had to like basically dude, everything you just have to configure, which is insane.

So like this thing, like the, oh gosh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. What's happening? Hold on. Oh, there we go. Just to like get like a spotlight type thing took me forever to do. So you can like type in and get all the good stuff. And then I have like a separate mode for like windows that are open, a separate mode for like calculator or whatever.

Oh, what else I got in here? I think that might be it. Drash, I got a question for you. Yeah, what's that? How much of the, how much of the config are, when you're saying you're artisanally doing it, you're saying you're handwriting this? You asked me a lot of it at first. Wow. So I wanted to learn how to do it.

OK. So like, when it was like more of the traditional route, I went to Stack Overflow. And I looked at people's doffiles. And I kind of just looked at it. Like I would have done pre-AI. And first just like going into ChatGPT and just like, tell it to reconfigure. I did at some point have it like help me.

If I got like super stuck, I'm like, what am I doing wrong? I kind of don't deal with my configuration stuff. But other than that, yeah, I tried to just like do everything by hand so I can like, truly learn it. There's a lot of stuff I don't really understand. Like, hyperland is like the, I don't even know.

It's like the window manager and something else put together. I don't even know how to describe it. It's the desktop environment. OK. But it also handles like the window. So like, when you say like you use like I3, that's like the alternative to what I would use here, right? Yeah, I don't use I3 anymore.

I moved over to hyperland. And so it is all the things in one. So you get the tyling. You get the compositor. Like, everything just works. Like in the I3 days, it's the brain. It's the word I was looking for. You get to bring it all together in I3 land. Yeah. So I'm going with I wanted my terminal to be like a little bit more opaque.

Or like like laying the pasties. I could see through more, but apparently because of the compositor, this is like as much as it can get. So it's like, it's pretty boring. It's not the desktop environment, my bad. It's the window manager plus compositor. OK. So is it the compiler question by compositor?

So does that mean I've never looked at sort of the new architecture of Linux? So Wayland is not a compositor. It's just a substrate you build a compositor on. Or what? I thought I thought Wayland was like the protocol for it. I could be I pretty sure I'm just curious about the terminology. Like obviously, I know what Wayland actually is, but I'm just curious like, what do they now call a compositor?

Yeah, it's something that implements the protocols. So I'm pretty sure way, yes, chat is saying Wayland is just protocols. So Wayland is nothing. OK. And then Hyperland is the compositor that implements Wayland. OK, so Wayland is like this spec. And then anyone can implement the Wayland spec is actually right.

And then so something like Hyperland goes like, OK, I've implemented the Wayland spec. So anyone who's written to that, like, I've got all the endpoints. So this thing will just work on top of it and then we're going to do whatever we want. But it's not like we had to install another implementation of Wayland alongside like Hyperland to get it to work.

It's all just kind of like folded into one. I think that's why it's not the correct description of it, chat. All right, one more thing. You guys are ready for it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, of course. Hold on. Hold on. Why is it not working? Boom. Change. Oh, with the slide? Yeah. What is that again? It changes again.

It changes the animation. All right, it's like on shuffle. So we've got something. What is this? What is that? You just hit a key to change your, in case you're feeling like a change of mood. Yeah, so this is actually my favorite wallpaper. So what I'm going to do is there's this other thing called wall lust.

It will actually change the entire theme of your desktop to match the color of the photo in the background. So that's my next adventure. It's called wall lust. It's like some rust thing. Someone wrote. So I'm going in deep and then I'm actually going to, I'm buying another computer right now. So I'm ready to put this these dot files on another computer that will actually work and use it as my main machine.

I'm going to start trying to game on it. And then I'm going to actually start being on the stand up with Linux. Can you believe it? I can. The Linux future is here, man. It's coming. People do not understand. They think the big story is AI. The big story is Linux, man. It is. It's like, you're of the Linux desktop.

So many people are like, yep, I'm moving over. All right. So I have a real question. Yeah. My arm is tired. So I'm switching bows right now. Okay. Okay. Switch. I'm like, I'm like in an earthquake mode right now. Yeah, we can, we can see that. I know. Nice. Good job. Great. Can we get some claps for trash in the chat, please?

Everybody? That's great. Yep. I am Linux, peeled. Like, I'm not going to lie like, I always thought it was a waste of time. But after using Linux and realizing like all this bloat I've been used to, like windows was like the ads and just like all this like stupid stuff that added. And then Mac with like, it's worthless like spotlight out of the box.

It's finder's terrible. Yeah. Finder is terrible. Yeah. Like, finder's like literally the recipes of software I've used in my life, like just being able to. Yep. And I also just underestimated how fun it is to just configure things in the way I want them to be. Versus like these operating systems I can change like the color.

Whoop, they do. Right. Here I can actually change like pretty much all of it to however I want. And it kind of like when I first started using them like in 2018 or whatever, it gave me like the same kind of feeling where I just wanted to configure this to make it my own for a long time. And this is pretty much what I did.

So like it was just like dude, I was addicted. I was just sitting on my computer just like between my prompts at work. I was like Linux max and dude, I was just like, all right, let's let's let's see what else I can do. So I'm kind of like still riding that high. So it's it's probably going to get a lot more intense over the next couple of months or so.

I can't wait. I love this arc. I love trash Linux. Me too. I am very curious about this because you specifically said this multiple times, which is this whole like configuration thing for everything is just kind of weird. Now that you've had this configuration for everything, do you see that the lack of configuration for everything is actually for me is actually weird.

Like you can't like make almost any decisions for other operating systems in any sort of real way. And then there's all these programs that then get built on top of it that you like can't alter without really weird ways because no one has the mentality of like, hey, you can fully customize it. So just I just love that aspect.

And so I'm curious if you've now changed or you now like, hey, where is the config for this program? I mean, kind of yeah, like when I'm in but I switched back to Mac and I'm using like my window manager, I'm just like, I'm like, dude, I got to tweak this like this is not because I'm not using the exact same hot keys that my that my Linux machine is using.

So now I have to switch like my mental model. I'm apparently on Twitter so I can like fix that, but I'm just going to go full Linux. I'm trying to switch my my work computer Linux at some point. Dude, this is so exciting. I love this. I love this. I'm excited to try a lot of my coworkers use Linux, which I didn't realize you could do.

Yeah, I used it for using Linux, yes, six, eight years at there. So what machine did you get? Let me do my own almost every single time just because I didn't like Lenovo. So I tried a razor, which by the way, I had a 40 minute battery life and I tried for days to get Bumblebee to work, which was the old switch between integrated and dedicated GPU thing.

Oh, man. I hated Bumblebee. It's BumbleBitch is more like it like that was just the worst thing in the universe. And then you know, that as time went on, I had a bunch of other ones. And so, you know, at least if it's the big end is still the exact same as it was back in my back, my day, you can just buy a laptop and use that Linux.

They have good open VPN support. They have good. But stuff like F5 or whatever it is, all those things I'll work just throwing it out there. I mean, we got these of course sponsored. So not technically an ad for this episode, but they are sponsored. These XBSs are awesome. I would suggest trash, although this probably doesn't need to be said anymore, but I'd suggest staying away from Nvidia parts.

Yes. Good point. Generally speaking. So either get either an AMD like integrated chip or get an Intel integrated chip. And do not get a discrete Nvidia graphics, you know, just stay away from that. That's what I'd say because they don't support Linux very well at all. Okay. And they've always historically been significantly worse.

Whereas all the others, right? Like now that the revolution has happened, hasn't like a lot more investment from Nvidia into this world. Happened. But I mean, it has, but it hasn't really made it better as far as I've seen. I think too for like consumer hardware, it's not it's not hitting as much. I would say the exception for that trash would be if you get something from like System 76 or Framework or somebody else, yeah, I think the framework is designed for Linux, right?

So you know you're going to have drivers for everything that work well. Right. So if you buy one, yeah, that's meant for the Linux experience, then then you don't have to be so worried about the Nvidia situation. You're like, it's fine. They tested them and it works. But we have a lot of AMD stuff here and it all works fine on Linux, right?

Like we have AMD laptops and AMD desktops and they all work fine. And video stuff has been more hit or miss in the past. As Prime said, like, you know, they kind of have been trying to fix that a bit, but not very hard in my opinion. So I would just in general, I just wouldn't do it. Yeah. Yeah. And as an owner and AMD stock, I love hearing all this AMD.

Yeah. I mean, as an owner of Nvidia, I mean, as an owner of AMD. Yeah, I own a little bit of AMD. It's a fraction. It's a fraction. It's a fraction. It's a fraction. Okay. It's a fraction. So the market is here and the primeogen is just one room below. They want my vote. Okay. They come and talk to me about voting rights.

All right. I do have to do a negative review for ThinkPad because they did hang up on me on customer service. I personally would never go Lenovo personally, I'll never do them again. Okay. I do think framework. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams. Streams.

Streams. Streams. I had pleasant experiences on all of them. Yeah. I'm not suggesting that they're good, but I would say we have Lenovo's here and Linux runs just fine on them. AMD. Linux. Yeah. Like the AMD integrated like Zenfors and stuff like that. All runs Linux just great on Lenovo's, but you know, again, that's not saying that they're good machines or anything.

I'm just saying that Linux doesn't have problems with it. Yeah. Yeah. Trash, I'll just throw out there too. I do. I mean, we can talk about it off stream so that you know that it's also real, but I love this XPS. That's awesome. The battery life is so long. People were recommending that as to live. I literally fly from Rapid City to Miami without charging my device, having cursor open programming in VIM, which takes like a cajillion LSP's from both of them and having like YouTube playing this Monique.

So I somehow made it all the way through like six hours of flight on a Linux machine. So that was an absolute incredible experience. So I was saying this programming outside today, no Joe, I'll show you a picture after stream trash because it has my feet and it's so chat can't see it. So this is what I'm going to do.

What's I get my next machine? I'm actually going to speed run more distros just because it's such a pain. It's such a pain to get distros to work on this old Mac. So I'm going to try Arch is going to be my next one. So I'm going to try Arch. I want to see like how complicated because everyone keeps saying it's like the ultimate neck beard one.

So I just want to see like how difficult it is. I'm going to try Nick's OS because my co-workers are all about Nick's OS. Try it out. And then I'm going to go back. I think I really I'm going to actually end up setting up Fedora, but we'll see we'll see more news for you, but I want to try a lot of the distros just to you know, get my fee wet.

You know, I'm fine. You can run into some issues like I here's a good one for artists, a lot of issues. All right. I was I I installed GDB yesterday on a car ride. But then I couldn't run GDB because I had mismatching some some sort of lib SOs. And so I had the update. I had some things that I needed the update, but I didn't have enough bandwidth to update like the whole machine.

And so then I just couldn't use GDB and just print after bugged my way through like sometimes you run into those issues. And I think that doesn't happen on Ubuntu because Ubuntu has like a fixed set of versions if I'm not mistaken to where like they have like this is our release. And so I think things just work together.

Okay. You know better. Right. Yeah. Pac-Man, S.Y.U. just was not was not in the cards for me because I was getting no internet. One thing that could be trash. So if you're not using yours in the car on your phone, hotspot, maybe you won't have that issue. He won't have that issue for that. That is true.

The one thing that kind of threw me for Luke after I used like I think I used three distors at this point. We're just like the packages that were just available in them. So like every two, which is like DBN uses what apt, DBN was like DNF or whatever, but then I realized as I tried to install these packages between them, like one didn't exist in this one.

And one is he just had to use like a different command like a snap or pack. I can't remember. Oh gosh. Flat don't get flat pack or snap on that. That's one thing is part about ours is you literally have everything. Like I've almost never ran into something that I wasn't just like go put it in. Paru. Paru dash S.

Go get him. It just like works. So that's like one thing I just, I don't, it's kind of like MPM modules for me. I'm just installing things and I don't even know what I'm doing, you know what I'm saying? Linux is not great that way. It's the one thing that I really dislike about it that I wish had been different, which is that like there's litter in Linux, there has never been and probably never will be a sense of here is how we distribute a binary reliably.

It just it simply does not exist like everything relies on this sort of upstream package management or complete containerization kind of approach. And they never really were like here's just an API that you write to and this will run on all Linux's forever everywhere. They just never did that. And it's, you know, it's strictly user land like the Linux kernel API is actually like very clear.

You can go look at it and it just is what it is. So like, you know, technically a program written to just the Linux kernel probably could run everywhere and for a very long time. But like user land is just such a completely nightmarish thing that you end up having to do a lot of work if you actually want to distribute a binary that just works everywhere as opposed to going through this process of like everyone builds a package and you download the package or everyone puts things in a giant container and then the container installs and doesn't quite play nicely with things because that container has something and this container also has a version of that thing.

And so you can't have the same one between them. I'm like, it's just it that part is worse than Windows unfortunately and it probably isn't going to get better. It's the one sadness of Linux. How close is App Image just like I have an arch computer that I'm running right now and I've had like Ubuntu and sorry to say trash, pop OS, although I did change the background.

I don't have absolutely well actually it was running awesome WM on it. But anyways, that's fine. But like App Image runs fine across both of them that I don't, is it like does that solve the problem or no, I literally don't know what App Image why it works. So I'm very uneducated. I don't even know what that is.

Well, so you run it and you run it. Right. That's it. Anything that can anything that like does effectively containerization in some way is a quote unquote solution to this problem, right? And the idea behind that is generally that like we're going to take all of the what would have been user land dependencies of this thing.

You know, whatever the G-lib C was and whatever all the SOS were that it was using and like all of that stuff, and we're just going to pretend that that is what it is running on, right? Gotcha. And there's a lot of ways that you can do that. I mean, Docker is this as well, right? Like that's what that was.

It was a template and there are many attempts to solve that problem. But the problem is that that means that if there's anything like shared that you were trying to have these two people do the same thing, like like I want you both to use this config file or something, right? It starts to be it's now that's like its own new thing.

It's like, okay, well, how's that going to get mapped and all of a sudden you're back to the same problem. It's like, oh, okay, now we have to make sure that like they're both using this kind of config directory with this layout structure, right? So there's like they just you can understand why this problem happened because it's it's downstream of the fact that there's many people shipping user land, right?

Right. So so it's like a strength and a weakness that come together. The strength is that you can have lots of different people experimenting with how the user land is structured and the idea is that maybe that is more fruitful because different, you know, if if one of them fails, then we just don't care.

That goes away and we keep the ones that worked, right? So it's not like it's all bad, but the problem is like it's still not quite like the only coherent thing that people have gotten to in Linux for long term is containerization really. And otherwise it's just this really, you know, and people, you know, who try to get really creative with it.

Like I said, you can kind of try to do things where you're really just talking directly to the like kernel system APIs and you try to like have very little dependency on the user land stuff. You can do that, but that's not how most things are built. And it's also there. It's got its own issues. So just it's harder, right?

It's just harder and it would be better if it was to use Riko Mariani's phrase. It would be better if it if someone, somehow someone succeeded at some point in getting it user land to look more like a pit of success rather than a pit of failure, right? To make it easy to just when I make something just by default.

If I just sit down and make something, the easiest thing to do is something that will just work everywhere as a binary with no need for any special consideration and no need for containerization and like it would just work. But we haven't gotten there yet on Linux, right? Whereas in general, like if you built something like on just a blank Win32 API, it actually runs on every version of Windows generally speaking and Linux now, right?

You could write a Win32 binary and it will run on all Linux systems. So that's kind of funny, but yeah, that's where we're at. That hurts a little bit, Casey. But it's true, because the Linux back and back people have done such a great job of with wine and proton are so amazing that it just runs, right?

Sorry. No, that meant it. Quick question. So one of the things I ran into was at least on the top of us repository, whatever you want to call it, they had like an outdated version of something I wanted. Like, what do you do in that scenario? Do I just have to go build from source myself? Is that like recommended or do I have to sit there and wait?

You can add a rep, you can add their repository if they have one is usually the recommended approach. So like if, if the people making the thing have a repository for your distro, you can add that as a preferred package source, that's one way, right? Because like in general, just like as a rule, Linux's, linases tend to have the following structure.

There are a set of like blessed package repositories that are like the, the people who maintain this distro like pop OS or whatever or Debian or whatever it is, right? They maintain or any Debian sub like like Mint. They have their kind of like, this is our package repository that when you run one of those package managers, it talks to these blessed repositories and that's where it will get the versions of the packages that you install, right?

But you can also add your own repositories to like supersede that. So you can go like, oh, the people who make Hyperland, they put up their own repository for my distro that has a newer build of the thing or whatever. If they did that, you can just add that with one line. You can say like, hey, whatever package manager I'm using, add this other repository.

And then when you say, I want to install Hyperland, it'll go, oh, there's a much newer version of Hyperland that comes directly from the Hyperland repository, which you said I could use now, I'll install that. That's way one, right? Like an alternative mirror for like NPM or something like how you can set up an internal one for that.

So you can always look for that and it comes with the same risks as you would expect. You're basically now trusting those people to have built buyers, but hey, previously you were trusting a bunch of pop-up with people who definitely don't have an incredible security team or something like that to provide you the packages.

So it's, you know, you have to assess the source to make sure that you don't think it's any less trustworthy than where you were getting your packages before. But as long as you've done that, you can add it and now it will just update automatically and when you do your normal package manager commands, it will just look in that repository automatically.

So you don't have to do anything else. That's like the most automated way to get a more modern thing, right? If they don't have that. So if the place that you, you know, if the thing that you want doesn't happen to have that, then yeah, then you're into like, okay, I've got to go look. Do I want to get hub clone this thing and build it myself?

Do I want to look for a flat pack or an app image or like those kinds of things where someone has pre-built it into like something that's designed to run containerized? So it won't integrate as completely into my Linux distro as it might otherwise have because it's not actually built for this distro, but I can run it in a containerized way and maybe that's fine for whatever I'm doing, right?

Eh? Yeah, like a trash like on for me. I don't usually use the like cursor bin that's in the AUR like I just let it update itself and it downloads a new app image and then like I can run that app image again so that I don't have to wait for other pack for arched to update it. And also sometimes I don't want to update my whole system just to update one dumb program or like for NeoVim I would usually just like have a build folder locally on my computer and then I would just run make pseudo make install and then it will just install whatever version of NeoVim I currently wanted to have.

So like that. Yeah, usually they have some like make script, some make files, something simple to like build it for you and then it's like install some set of dependencies maybe or maybe they'll have like an app image or something that will make it very, very easy to get the latest one. Got it. It's a problem track.

It is like I was saying, like I say at the outset, if I had to say the number one problem with Linux right now for the average user who you know isn't somebody who's maybe tech savvy, it's this right because it's like you just can't distribute binaries or live and everyone's it's one of those problems where you say it and Linux people say no, no, no, it's like no, it is full stop like you it is not arguable.

It is harder to download binaries on Linux and other places and that's not really a criticism of Linux because like I said, it comes from the fact that they're trying not to have one uniform form user land. They're trying to allow people to experiment and so there is a benefit to it, right? Like like DHH could not have made a marchy, right?

If this had not been true, right? And the same is true for all the other people who've made their distributions, Bazzite, Linux Mint, pop OS, Nick sauce, whatever it is, right? So the fact that we have all those things is because this was allowed, but the downside of it is everyone made their own ideas about what it means to ship a binary as a result and those things are not necessarily compatible.

They haven't necessarily even been compatible across revisions of the same thing because again, it's like there is no hierarchy that saying this is how Linux should be. The kernel says it has you know, Linus sitting there cracking the whip, he can sort of say like we're not breaking this, like here is the API to the kernel, it must remain consistent, never break, right?

And that's been pretty like that layer of Linux has not had this problem, but the user land stuff has. And so that's just how it is. And until someone can politically solve that problem somehow, political plus technologically solve that problem, it's going to remain a sticking point probably. Obviously, answer casey is just right when 32 application and then just let proton handle it.

The other thing is the browser, right? A lot of people use a lot of web apps now. They they use like stuff in the browser and the browser is its own way that this gets solved, right? It's this separate substrate that everyone programs to. It's exactly like when 32 in that respect. So there's two places that you can go to get like stable Linux distribution.

One is with 32, right? And the other is the browser and both of those things will work. The part that doesn't work so well is if you actually want Linux native and there you're kind of stuck in this like containerization land or being very, very careful about like using only kernel stuff and having your own back and pat baked into how you communicate across those channels.

And it's just it's not great. It's not great. Yeah, but I feel like honestly, I mean like my wife uses a Chromebook like she could use that. Yeah, she could use my Linux computer because she's opens up Chrome. That's all she needs anyway. So it's like it would be just fine like that's all she uses a computer for.

For a lot of work that is, you know, web based like that, then then this is just not an issue, right? Because the browser will, you know, Google and Firefox, they they always keep an updated browser for basically every distro. So you're going to have that, right? And so if the all if most of your stack that you use every day just runs in the browser, you're good to go.

So what you're telling me is that the famous talk by destroy software Gary Bernhardt with metal where eventually the VM for or eventually the kernel becomes just a VM for JavaScript is really the ultimate goal here where we all don't have to think about a management of any kind. There is no sandboxing.

Everything's already pre sandboxed just all runs like that's actually truly the ultimate answer. I mean, it's I guess I'm not sure if it's the ultimate answer, but what I'm saying is just that there are substrates that have persisted when 32 and the browser are two of them. And Linux has not yet managed to produce one other than the kernel API, right?

And so that's just where we're at to be completely frank, neither has Mac. Mac is very bad at this as well. You know, you don't really want to be in a position of having to ship stable binaries on a Mac cause they're like, they break by default, they're like, oh, did you get that notarized for this platform or whatever, right?

Is a thing they've stuck in that process, right? So they're not designed, they are not trying to make this thing that's designed to have things run forever and all that, right? And 32 kind of was and has been maintained in that way, win 32 specifically, not some of their newer stuff, for example, right?

Does win 32 run 64-bit applications? Is that like a hold back of its naming? But is it? Yeah, I mean, you can call it win 64 if you want, but I'm talking about the win 32 API that then got pulled forward into it to secure for a bit. A favorite gaming system, KZ win 64. Because the reason I usually say win 32 instead of win 64 is because they've added a bunch of APIs since then and none of those are reliable, right?

Like all the new stuff forget it, you know, and fun. So I don't know that you want to go that route. But the older stuff is very reliable and very sort of universal. You can run, you know, a thing that uses the win 32 API is compiled as a 64-bit binary. We'll run base everywhere. I've had, you know, examples like, I have a bunch of tools that I build that I use on my Windows development machine and I was like, oh, I got to port these to Linux.

No, I didn't. I literally just ran them and underwine and I could not tell the difference. It was just seamless and I was like, wow, this has gotten really, really good, right? So it really is true that, you know, as long as you're doing a same win 32 app, you can run that on Linux now and it just works.

So fun, fun little side story on win 32. One of the first things I ever attempted to learn and build was building my own multiplayer programming in FPS, DirectX 8, which I later discovered that many security flaws. But a good like 10% of the book was starting a win 32 window. I am very, it takes a lot of lines of code in my, in my, in my memory of really of just like, it's like 400, 500 lines of code just to get like the window to show if I remember correctly.

It was a, it was a real process, it's probably a hundred, maybe, maybe 75, let's say. Okay. I mean, this, they probably had a lot of stuff in there that wasn't necessary. Not, not, not my, not my time, not, is that include DirectX 8? Start up though. Yeah, that was part of some DirectX 8 handling, which by the way, that adds on ironically, this part of my hand started hurting because of DirectX.

I had to quit, I had to quit my dreams of an aspiring game programmer because DirectX was so many capital letters. I started developing a problem with my wrist. I thought, I can't, I can't do DirectX like it, it's going to kill me. Yeah, DirectX 8, I don't remember the startup code for that, but DirectX 11 now, which would be the standard thing you'd write to, if you didn't want to go 12, it's a, it's really not that many.

I mean, maybe, maybe it's 150, if you wanted something reasonable, it's, it's actually not much. It's not like Vulcan or, it's not double pointer, all capital letters and have, everything happens to be 30 to 50 characters long. Well, that's true, but there's not very many lines of it, you don't have to do very many things.

Okay. Let's put it that way. Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, I can write that for you, Prime. You can save your little pinkie for later. Well, well, pinkie. Yeah, because even back then, I didn't like using the caps lock key, but now I understand why. Okay. Well, this has been enlightening, Trash. I really want to congratulate Trash.

I'm quite the deep dive. Honestly, Trash, can people get your district, like, have you put this up, you had to get up there? Yeah, sure did. I posted it in the chat. Yeah. I started it because I think, I think everyone needs to know how to get this, if they want to, if they want to be, like, Trash and have, like, wife who's on the desktop and all that stuff.

Right. Everyone has an adult on the desktop. There you go. They're an adult. Yeah. This is an adult. There's none of these rocket ships. And a wife on the desktop, like an adult. Yeah. Like foes, like foos on the desktop, not a wife on the desktop. Right. No, I mean, I'm interested to see, when I try to port this to a new machine, how that works out.

And then also just how it's going to work with, like, arch and if you're also hyperland based in a lot of the hyperland problems, you're going to probably have very little. My guess is you'll have very little problems. So, okay, here's my question. So if I switch distros and I just decide to use hyperland on all of them, is there really a difference in the experience I'm going to get?

Package manager. That's it. Yeah. That's a big one. Yeah. So, like, which packages are available and how recent are they and how, how is the, how is the underlying, like, config setup, like, oh, like, what's, how is slashvar and stuff? Like, how are these, like, set up? I mean, which you may or may not care about, right?

Right. I've had very little interaction with slashvar and slash at sea in my day. Like, only when I was having to really think about, like, LDD and then figuring out what the hex running with the, the TV app, that's the only time I ever had to, like, concern myself with, because I just, you know, especially with Odin, it's all together.

Like, I've never, you don't, you don't even think about any of it. So then here's my next question with my only reason to switch distros is really just for the package manager at this point. And we'll end the out of box install experience is actually non negligible big one. So at least for me, like, in the old days, I used to install Ubuntu a lot, even though I strongly disliked actual Ubuntu, just because it was one of the few things that you could reliably install on, like, a laptop and it actually worked out of the box without you having to be some kind of a, a, a kernel whisper, like, you know, add and grow, right?

Add and kernel. I got hit with a grub menu and I just lost it and I was like, I don't even know what to do. It was like, the screen was black and I was just like, smacking my keyboard, I was just like, what's happening? Yeah. And so, like, in the old days, if I was like, I don't want to deal with this, you know, I would probably install Ubuntu on something just because I knew it would work the first time, right?

And I wouldn't have to like, actually go figure anything out. But nowadays, the same thing is true. It's just not Ubuntu necessarily, right? Like, there are definitely distros that I find are more reliable out of the box or whatever. And so, like, that is a meaningful differentiator, at least for people who don't want, like, if what you're trying to do is just install this machine as quickly as possible and you're not like here for the experience, right, then that's a, that's a thing that you would care about, right?

Like, you found, I'm guessing that four MacBooks, specifically, right? Four MacBooks, there are probably certain distros that install much cleaner because they've been tested on that and they include the drivers by default that are specific to Mac, whereas a lot of distros probably don't because they don't care about Mac because it's a closed platform, right?

And so, my guess is that that was sort of what you encountered there. Like most of the time, a Fedora install will just work on most PCs. Like it's pretty reliable now, I've found, but like, yeah, MacOS, I had a similar experience to you when I wanted to put Linux on a Microsoft surface, right? You know, Bazite, for example, which normally would install on a gaming machine, no problem.

You just run it and installs, can't run on a Microsoft surface. So, I think I used a Fedora, don't remember which, which subflavor plasma, I think, right? You know, you can, they're the same, basically, but you can pick what your default is. But anyway, so I think I installed a flavor of Fedora on it and that worked out of the box.

And then I had to do some things to like get it running on the surface correctly, like, you know, to have it respond to, like, touch correctly and whatever, but, you know, that's how that goes. You, I think nowadays, if you were on something like a System76 or a framework computer, I bet you could pretty much have the same experience with anything, right?

Yeah, when we, when we installed Omachi, it was like, I've done it a couple of times on my framework one. I can go from, like, the installation process on a laptop to three minutes to the login screen to one more minute to have Wi-Fi and everything up and running. It's, I mean, it's, it's pretty outrageously quick.

Yeah. When you're installing, are you guys using USB drives? Or are you just like, USB drives? I don't know. I don't order one out. How do you USB drive in years? How to go Amazon Prime that real quick? Okay. Yes. Got to put it on a USB flash. And then you got to put a little sticky note on there that just says, like, arch or something.

And that's why you always have your arch one hand and carry it around with you. You think that's cheaper? Yeah. No, you want to put the latest ISO again. In my experience, it doesn't take that long. Just get the latest ISO again. It'll have better, it'll have better drivers. If I'm going to go, I'm not going to go say, I'm going to install the three-year-old Linux on this bad boy. I got to get it fresh, man.

Well, it actually does matter, too, because, like, a lot of times, and I've never actually gone and looked at the specifics of this. But a lot of times there is this sort of compatibility creep that happens where the new Strix Halo processor or whatever cannot be booted up in the same way, or if you did, you wouldn't get video or whatever as the old one.

So if you don't get the new ISO from Fedora or whatever that was updated as of now, sometimes even the beta, right, if you're really new to this processor, that it just doesn't have the support for that thing. And this would be true on Windows as well. It needs to download drivers that will actually start this thing, right? And so you do sometimes have to make sure that your installation media is up to date, sometimes even beta up to date, if you have a processor that just came out, because unfortunately, they have different ways that they're going to boot.

And when it goes to try and put it into a graphical mode, that might just fail, if you don't have the latest thing, because the integrated graphics part is different, or whatever, like the memory aperture, it's different, like who knows, right? So you do have to happen for us with the XPS, we had to get the latest tomachi for it, because it had Panther Lake inside, and nobody had Panther Lake support.

It's the Intel Core. It's Intel Panthers. It's good. It works. It's present time. It works every time. No, it's Intel's latest, I think latest, right, chipset, and it has way better, like battery performances, like it better power consumption, I don't really know, but it makes a battery less a long time for me, so I like it. Apparently one of the big things is that if you have like say video playing, this is why I specifically shot it on YouTube, is you have like video playing on YouTube, and then you switch desktops and you go over to your coding one. Also, you'll notice your wattage go way down, and apparently it has, I don't know, something to do with that, I'm not really sure. I don't think that's a Panther Lake thing,

that's about, it just has options to do stuff now. I think it's some of the later headers that came in also with that update, that you could do a bunch of reduction when things are on different desktops. I don't know. The battery is good for me, so I like Panther Lake. It's all I know. In modern Intel cores, look a lot like the M-Series cores. It's the way to think about it.

So you know how M-Series cores have like, they have Firestorm and Ice Storm. Plastic. Absolutely. Right. I did not know that. That's all stuff. I have not even what Firestorm and Ice Storm are just. That's a Pokemon move. Yeah, Trash is interested. Finally, it's like his area of expertise. Finally, it's possible to get out or stand.

Okay, go, keep going, keep going. Sure, so if you think about an M-Series chip, right, like the things that's in your modern Mac, I assume you have a new MacBook, right? Trash somewhere or yeah, I got all the new new every single one. He's got every year's in a show, right? Well, I mean, it's from work. It's like I got the new M-Fore.

There you go. M-Fore, right? So if you look at how an M-Fore chip is designed, it has two different types of core. Well, it has, you know, there's a lot of things in an M-Series chip, but two of the main CPU things in there are there's cores that are designed to run as fast as possible, but at sort of like a more power cost. And then there's cores that are designed to run like not as, that they won't get workloads done as quickly, but they'll use less power. So, to really call these performance and efficiency cores is the terminology that's often adopted for that, right? This is not a firestorm, okay? I star in firestorm are just like names they gave to these core designs or whatever, right? But that's what they are for. And the, so one of the ways

that you can get much better battery life is if your operating system can correctly identify something that can be moved onto efficiency cores so that it's not performing as well, but maybe you didn't need it to because it's just YouTube streaming some music in the background or whatever, right? So like we don't really care, like how responsive that is or whatever, it's just got to get that that thing done, right? You can move that onto the efficiency cores, you can make sure it's using the hardware decoder for whatever the video stream is or whatever it is, you can just make sure that you're using the lowest power possible configuration, and that's going to save you battery life, right? Intel modern Intel cores are exactly the same way.

They have segregated types of cores on them where they have cores that are designed to do really heavy workloads, like if you're gaming and you want the fastest possible thing to happen, you can run things on those cores, but they also have efficiency cores which use much less power, but wouldn't be scores high in benchmarks, exactly like an M series chip. Okay. Got it. Got it.

And that's pretty neat. It's the new way things are being done. I'm imagining that we'll see the same thing with Zen6. Zen5 already had this idea of Zen5 and Zen5c, although it was a slightly different kind of thing, and I'm assuming that Zen6 will be all about we have, here's our Perfcore, here's our efficiency core, they're going to do the same. Well, they introduce a Eurocore that only works for like, you know, like 14 days a month, and then the other 16 days it takes off for very holidays and things like that. Is that like an option or even better battery efficiency?

Yeah, you can load up the Eurocore, and basically what will happen is like some smoke starts coming out of the PC, but not in a bad way, just like cigarette smoke comes out the fan, stem cigarette and it's just like, you know, like, what is the point of this task? I don't want to do it. I'm not even going to look at it until tomorrow. I don't see a more of like a mailbox kind of situation, like you send it over the three weeks, and then like eventually they come back in office and start answering. I understand where you're going. I don't know, I don't know if your cores are coming. I'm not sure. That's a good question. Oh, that's so good. All right. Well, hey, everybody, that has been the stand up. Thank you very much, Trash, for walking us through

Linux, Trash. I'm actually, I'm not going to lie to you. Your Linux looks better than mine, and it does make me feel not as cool. I worked hard. I worked hard. It looks very, very good, and so it's inspiring me to step up my VIM game again, make some cool stuff. So I appreciate the inspiration, Trash, and I hope everybody enjoyed the world's most attended stand-up. So thank you, everybody, for being a part of it. Thank you, Casey, computer-enhanced.com. Thank you, Teige. ThePrimogen.com. I'm not really sure. You can find me at atbeganbot on x.com. If you're really angry at TJ, go check out BiginBot at BiginBot. Give me your feedback. And of course, Trash. Thank you, Trash. We'll link your, there's like a 20% chance we'll link your dot files repo in this video if we remember it. Do

it. Do it. The name you like Trash. They're not ready. They're not ready. They're not. Is the stand-up. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody. Bye.

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