5 YRS AGO NXT ON USA POST-SHOW: Dunne and Gargano call their shot for the North American Championship, War Games thoughts, more

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1:35 Now, PW Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.

1:44 On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show, we jump back five years to the NXT Post Show hosted by Kelly Wells, Nate Lindberg, and Tom Staub. They talked about Pete Dunne and Johnny Gargano. calling their shot for the North American championship, predictable interruptions in backstage interviews, war games, thoughts, and more. This originally live streamed on November 9th, 2021.

2:04 And it's our Wade Keller person post show five years ago. Flashback for Saturday, November 7th, 2026.

2:18 Well, aloha, ladies and gentlemen.

2:20 Welcome to PWT Talks NXT. I'm your host, Kelly Wells. You can find me all over social media at SpookyMilk or SpookyMilk.Games.

2:30 Good to be back.

2:31 I believe we're all back this week. I say I believe Tom's having a few technical difficulties and hopefully will join us very shortly.

2:41 But in the meantime, the other two of us, maybe it's Will, We'll hold down the fort.

2:47 Okay, so we're talking NXT for November 9th, 2021.

2:55 Eight matches. Once again, that is.

2:57 The normal number in this era of NXT is eight, although we have seen nine.

3:04 But yes, eight matches and one good one.

3:09 I don't know, maybe a couple that were okay, but your main event, which we will open with, was far and away the best of them.

3:17 Pete Dunne versus Carmelo Hayes. This is non-title.

3:21 A few months ago, a champion winning on NXT was not really a thing. Maybe in a tag or something like that, but not in. In singles so that is what happened carmelo hayes your north american champion loses to pete dunn in a match with all kinds of distraction on both sides uh you've got trick williams you had dexter loomis sitting in on commentary never saying anything of course but putting on a helmet funny but he has done it before i was just telling somebody about this a couple of days ago um Like, hadn't thought about it in months, but brought it up to somebody a couple of days ago.

4:07 Strange stuff. But yeah, did that.

4:12 And in the end, it was Johnny Gargano who cost Carmelo Hayes the win.

4:18 And they did end with a kind.

4:21 Of intriguing issue, wherein Gargano and Dunn both are trying to lay claim to a title shot.

4:31 So there you go.

4:32 Gargano, Dunn, Hayes, all in that North American championship picture, Nate.

4:40 Okay, so for the second week in a row, Sling TV did me dirty.

4:46 It did me dirty.

4:47 Last week, I wasn't able to see the opening like 15 minutes of the show. Tonight, I was a little bit behind and I was watching on a delay and I missed like the last maybe seven minutes of the show. So I read your report, Kelly, to catch up. So that being said, I'm actually really intrigued for this. Pete Dunn, Johnny Gargano, they kind of I mean, obviously they represent the old school, the old blood, the black and gold NXT, if you will.

5:15 Whereas Carmelo Hayes and.

5:16 Trick Williams, for that matter, obviously they represent this new 2.0 school of talent. Which is obviously a theme we're seeing throughout NXT 2.0 quite a bit, old versus new.

5:28 But....

5:30 Obviously, we're seeing that here again in this main event and throughout this feud. But I'm curious to see how this kind of plays out. Will Pete Dunne have anybody watching his back? He doesn't have Oney Lorcan anymore watching him. As far as I know, Danny Burch is still employed, but he's on the injured list. And Ridge Holland.

5:52 Did he get future endeavors?

5:56 I don't even know who's part of the company anymore with everything going on. But regardless, Pete Dunne's kind of like, you know, on his own. We've got Dexter Loomis and Johnny Gargano's corner and obviously Trick Williams with Carmelo Hayes. So, you know, there's there's a lot of interference. It sounds like there was a lot of interference here in the main event tonight. But there's a lot of potential for interference, rather, is what I was trying to say for that upcoming feud.

6:19 Whether it leads into, you know, some sort of a triple threat match at the announced war games, not takeover, but I guess they've been calling it war games, just war games for a couple of years, at least a couple of years, whatever. But, you know, at war games, if it leads to triple threat there for the North American title, that'd be kind of cool. But I think if it does lead to triple threat or if it just leads to singles between one of the two of them and Carmelo Hayes, I think it's either one of them would be great opponent for him to get started again.

6:52 Like I said, both done in Gargano, they really represent NXT old school. So I mean, I wouldn't think Carmelo Hayes would be losing his title.

7:01 Right off the bat here.

7:02 I believe he's probably going to have at least a halfway decent title reign, a decent lengthy reign. So put him out there against somebody like Don or even like Gargano that has that credibility, that has that association with that NXT black and gold brand, and.

7:21 Let him win.

7:22 Let him, uh, let Carmelo go over, let him win and, um, you know, obviously retain his title, but get that rub from the older talent. I think it's, uh, I think it's some good booking. Um, from what I saw of the match, I thought it was fantastic. Uh, I'm going to go back probably tomorrow morning and at some point and watch Corbin's dreaming in the background. That's interesting. Um, and, uh, but I do want to go back tomorrow and watch it.

7:46 But from what I saw, it looked great. It looked like they had some great chemistry and, uh, Looking forward to seeing where the rest of this feud goes.

7:54 Tom, do we have you back?

7:57 Tom is not on the call yet.

7:59 Tom's computer was kind of bugging out, and his mic wasn't working. So he's not on the call yet, but he's supposed to be here at some point.

8:08 Well, okie-dokie.

8:10 I got me, I got you, I've got a dreaming dog.

8:15 And I guess that's what is going to have to pass. For a show this week, let's go to the phone lines.

8:22 You can call us, 515-605-9345, and say hey, folks, and we'll give you a couple of questions. Let us go to our good friend in Georgia, Darrell.

8:37 Darrell, how are you tonight?

8:41 I'm doing quite well. How are y'all doing tonight?

8:44 Not too bad. Glad to be back.

8:45 Thought we were back on a three-man booth, but that will remain.

8:50 To be seen.

8:54 We all know technical issues happen all the time, happen all the time. But it was a good show tonight. It was a good show. It was a lot of things that I liked. That main event, I really did like. I like how they set up a lot of things. I like that they introduced, said that they finally going to have a takeover, which is War Games, which we talked about like a few weeks ago because it's around about this time. But my first question would be, is the story that they're telling with Bron Breaker and how they're building him up, I'm enjoying that. this build with Brian Breaker. I wish they would build that up with a bunch of different people like this and then similar ways with these people because the story that they're telling

9:48 and they make you want to see him continue to go, continue to do different things, you know, continue to... Just because you're investing in his growth and seeing can he work his way back up. He don't have to get a title shot, especially not at the takeover, but I would love to see how he goes. Would you guys prefer to see him in a different feud maybe where he have to take a loss and see how he come back from it and build up and just keep his momentum going and everything? What would you guys like to see or see him go right back for the title?

10:28 So we got Braun Breaker and Tommaso Ciampa both off in the UK doing tours there. So not a bad thing to– there's a lot of talent to get over on this show right now. So you got these two guys in the UK working in front of a different– A different bunch of people, probably very cool for them to see Tommaso Ciampa. I would assume it's been a very long time since he's been over there, and it's probably the first time that Braun's been over there in this capacity.

11:02 Yeah, that's an interesting question.

11:04 I guess I wouldn't have bet on Braun staying in the championship picture right away, but there's nobody else in it. There doesn't seem to be anybody else in the title picture right now.

11:23 It's just Braun.

11:25 So.

11:28 Strange stuff there, surprising stuff there to me. I'm not against this, but if he loses again, then they're going to have to, obviously they would have to, you can't just keep him there for loss after loss after loss without losing people. But he obviously had a very, very good showing in that championship match. And I think in every way, in kayfabe, And as a worker. So I think that it's warranted to have him go out there for a second match in this feud.

12:14 But how.

12:15 I wouldn't be surprised if the decision hadn't been made on who's going to win this match.

12:24 Is Braun ready? That's going to be the big question for.

12:28 a lot in nxt and at the beginning of nxt what we're covering tom and i in uh nxt 1.0 are not really but you know uh nxt eight years back is you had to give the championship to somebody who was unseasoned because nobody seasoned was on the roster that's just not what was done uh it was all new talent um So you had to have an immense amount of trust in one of these young talents, but you also didn't have to compare them to seasoned talent.

13:02 So it's a brave new world out there.

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13:28 I'm probably saying a lot of words to get out of really making a decision.

13:34 So let me just kind of throw to Nate.

13:38 I mean, I can say a lot of words if you want to. That's cool.

13:43 So, OK, I'm more or less really in the same camp that you are, because like I like Braun Breaker, except for the name. I think the name's abysmal and I'm going to point that out every single time.

13:53 Hey, hi, Tom. Tom's here now. Am I here?

13:58 You are.

13:58 Ooh, you paused awkwardly, so that must mean you can hear me. Okay, good.

14:01 I can.

14:02 I can hear you. Thanks, system update. Good timing. Oh, God, gotta love that. Bane of my existence, as a sysadmin.

14:11 Anyway, I like Braun Breaker, except for that abysmal name. And I think he has a lot of upside, and I think he has a lot of potential. But that's really my question right now. Is he ready for the NXT championship?

14:25 That's, you know.

14:28 and it's weird because like Kelly, you said you weren't expecting to see him in the championship picture right now. And honestly, I kind of was, I kind of have been expecting to see this after he lost. Um, he's, he's shown that I immediately, uh, I think it was the following week after he lost, I mean, he immediately just jumped right back in and said that he wanted to get back in the title scene, wanted to get that title. Um, and it seems like since he's debuted, they've just pushed him to the moon. Um, as Darrell said, I wish that they would do things like this more.

15:01 They would, they would kind of, um, you know, put some more focus on other talent, not just the one person that they want to make, like the guy, if you will.

15:09 Um, But the way they showcase Bron Breaker tonight in.

15:14 Those segments is just as little, you know, clips of him and at those house shows in the UK, you know, with him, with the voiceover talking about how like he's, he's getting some tips from the main roster talent, all of that stuff right there. Like he's getting rubs, Ron Smackdown on NXT. Nobody's getting rubs, Ron Smackdown on NXT, but he's getting rubs, Ron Smackdown on Um, so like clearly they, they have some big things for him. I'm, I'm fine with it because I, I think he's got a great upside.

15:47 He's a fantastic talent.

15:50 Um, but again, I, that, you know, that's, it's still for me anyway, it's too soon to know. Um, it's too soon for me to really make a decision on whether he's ready to actually hold that title or not. Um, I feel like if they did it, you know, even in a month at war games, um, it's, it feels, I hate to use that term hot shotting cause I think it's thrown around so much, but it almost in a way kind of feels like they are hot shotting.

16:19 And he just debuted his first match. He wins. Well, his first feud, he wins the NXT championship.

16:27 Um, I mean, that's like a Brock Lesnar push right there, you know?

16:32 So it's, it's going to be interesting to see how, how this kind of pans out. I wouldn't be surprised either.

16:38 If like you said, Kelly, if they don't, they don't have any idea if, if, you know, they want to go with champ or if they want to go with, uh with breaker um you know they might want to just kind of wait to see how this pans out they may want to see they may have wanted to see how he performed on those uk tours as well kind of using that as a bit of a uh um uh you know litmus test for him so those are all kind of you know obviously speculation but it wouldn't wouldn't surprise me if that was kind of part of it but uh yeah i flat my gums for a while tom welcome to the show.

17:10 Tom, we're talking to Darrell, and he is really liking the build of Braun Breaker and how he's stayed in this feud and just the continued– slower build for him. And it was, uh, wishing that we could see something like this for more of the talent. Um, and so it's just kind of a general question about, uh, what you think of the build of Braun Breaker. Um, in addition, we've already talked main event.

17:38 If you want to throw in some thoughts on main event, go ahead.

17:42 Let's see in terms of the main event. Can you guess what I'm going to say about it?

17:48 Um, I, I can guess. Yeah, I don't know.

17:50 Uh, I, would think that, oh, I'm not sure, because it's got hallmarks of things that you were just like, I feel like this is done and played out, but also had a lot going on story-wise to move us in a few different directions.

18:15 So I guess I don't know.

18:18 The ending was dumb, but whatever, because yes, it is moving on to the next step. What was crucial here in getting me to like this match, on top of the fact that after the good, I would say very good, very entertaining opener, there wasn't really too much to sink your teeth into throughout the meat of this show. So you're looking to the bookends, and this delivered what was crucial here. was the facial selling from both Hayes and Dunn. Dunn, who has been played out for a while in his veteran guard role. But.

18:55 It really felt like he was trying to be the guard here, be the old guard, and Hayes was really trying to make sure that he didn't fail his own boastfulness, and that came off in the performance. So they did the usual NXT main event work-ready match that I always kind of roll my eyes at, but they used it to tell a story. And in addition to that, I believe this is the second time Dexter Loomis has been on commentary. It was funny the first time. It will be funny the third time. it was funny tonight um i think it's a good thing that they are focusing on braun breaker and not just throwing a whole bunch of people in the mix uh in that particular mix all at once obviously they're throwing a whole bunch of

19:38 people into the mix but braun i i think it's a good thing that they have highlighted him as the cream of the crop and you've already got tony d'angelo with top guys' names in his mouth, and this week with Pete Dunne having to respond to that. So it's not that they're ignoring everyone else on that top level, but I think that the signaling with Braun has just been superb.

20:05 We've all got our eyes on him as a result.

20:08 And as far as what happens next with the feud, the fact that Ciampa and Breaker were featured on the UK tour leads me to wonder if they are both getting a look for the main roster, if Ciampa's thinking has maybe had to change in regard to how he wants to approach that sort of thing, and if they will have him, and if Breaker is on the fast track and will just skip the... you know, almost obligatory NXT championship run for him, uh, altogether. Um, so that, so that's where my mind is at wondering if both of them are on their way up, uh, or at least being considered. I that's, that's where I'll, that's where I'll put it not on their way up, but being considered getting that look, uh, Um, the same way that,

20:56 you know, for years we would see call-ups happen after the NXT talent had spent some time on the road to doing house shows with the main roster.

21:08 Yes.

21:08 And, um, it's hard to answer Darrell's question exactly, but, um, cause it's a, cause it's so big picture, but I will say what Tom was kind of saying is that you can't push a lot of people at a high level at the same time and expect anyone to stand out.

21:28 So they had to give a shot to Braun Breaker. And, you know, looking back eight years ago.

21:35 This is how eight and nine now, this is how it was done. And even if you won the championship, I mean, that was just so, so secondary at the time. to getting a job on the main roster and that was how it was framed by the announcers and it'll be interesting to see if they de-emphasize those championships and say.

22:00 It really is about getting to the.

22:02 Main roster because that's how the announcers even framed it at that time uh durell go.

22:08 Ahead yes sir well they both can be um they both can be um main roster going but I don't know if anybody want to go to the main roster because they both go they probably be cut within the year so I don't know if they really want to do that because the person at top don't have idea what he want he just have a new toy feeling like throwing toys away but that's another story for another day okay another thing that I'm finding very interesting is what they're doing with Cameron Grimes and Duke Hudson. I like, I'm liking it. I'm kind of feeling it. Uh, I know it was a drastic change on how they twisted Duke Hudson and around and made him into this hustler guy who, um, the poker and all of that, but I'm,

23:04 I'm liking what I see hopefully. And it doesn't, it looks like they building two guys up, but yeah, kind of really focusing on Cameron Grimes to a point, even though they're giving Duke Hudson a bigger rub with it and seeing how he go. I wish he could have handled those what chance a little bit better and without that robotic pace that caused that what chance. But I'm interested to see how this go, and I'm interested to see where that match go. What do you guys think about all of that?

23:39 Nothing ruins a heel promo like like a what chant. OK, so Cameron Grimes goes over Rufang in 144. I said this before. I will keep saying it. I really like Rufang.

23:51 I really like his arranginess, his his kicks. He's he's.

23:57 Crisp he's precise he's mean and um and if he gets himself a push i'm gonna just eat it up because he's just so so my type of talent um and i hope that i can see more out of him uh Cameron Grimes also my kind of talent rangy mean uh also happens to be hilarious so there's that too uh yes he goes over Duke Hudson is in the corner at the time and then they do a uh segment in the ring that's much lengthier than the match itself and it ends with them um agreeing to a poker showdown next week on the show.

24:39 So that's one of your two, uh, quote.

24:41 Unquote matches for next week is, uh, is this poker showdown between Duke Hudson and Cameron Grimes? I don't know what else there is for Cameron Grimes to learn on NXT. Uh, his, uh, He keeps getting into the best feuds on this show.

25:04 Literally the best feud at any given time or the best story told is always.

25:11 Cameron Grimes is always either it or he's.

25:14 Within spitting distance of it. And when you're that good a worker... some of it's going to be you. A lot of it's you.

25:26 And a lot of it is because you've built up so much goodwill that the writers just want to write for you because it's fun. Um, and that's what Grimes has created here. A wrestler that a worker that every, these writers that creative wants to do something with all the time. Um, and so he's just, he's never outside an interesting story. So I'm just, Very happy about that.

25:52 But I really like what they're doing with him and Duke Hudson.

25:56 The thing with the poker showdown maybe should tick me off.

26:02 Maybe.

26:03 But given the.

26:04 Talent involved and the fact that I love poker, I'm for it, Tom.

26:13 We've got ourselves just as soon as we got rid of Qian Xia and they finally because they finally said the Americanized version of their their stable name out loud. Only the one time I think they got before getting shuffled off to the side just as soon as as they were. Cast aside, we get Ru Feng, but they keep saying Ru Feng, and I'm going to need him to say it the Americanized way before I feel like I can mispronounce it, because just hearing Vic Joseph say Ru Feng is like... It's not a good podcast, but I'm hanging my head.

26:59 And I can't, like, that part of the world, I can't. Like, if it was Japanese, I would know it exactly, and I would be so annoyed. Um, and you say that now and I'm like, of course that's correct.

27:11 But I'm leaning on Vic for this.

27:13 And I, I certainly, yeah.

27:14 And everybody's got their own little pockets of knowledge in that regard.

27:17 So I'm certainly not trying to dig on you.

27:18 It's just the same, the same old thing where like in, in certain regards, when it's just an accent, I get it. But when it's the actual way that you pronounce the language, I do not understand why they Americanize it and why they, they have to play to the lowest common denominator rather than there's a lot of wrestling where I will justify it.

27:38 Playing to the lowest common denominator. But, you know, this is just like educate. If you say it right one time, then we'll know that that's what it is. I mean, they do Arturo who was. But, you know, I guess that was there was like an MMA fighter named that.

27:53 But. I digress. You know what? I'll digress a little bit further.

27:57 Duke Hudson jogged past my car yesterday. I drive through his neighborhood almost every single day. And I just happened to catch him out for a jog with another fellow wrestler. And he was in gimmick because he was shirtless. So, you know, little thumbs up to old Duke there. I think that he and Grimes did.

28:22 Oh, I skipped a part.

28:22 I promised my daughter that I would say that after NXT tonight, she came out before bed and said, was Austin Powers on the show tonight? And I had no clue what she was talking about. But she was in the back seat when this non-encounter, this sighting, this wild sighting through the window happened. And even though I told her who he was, for some reason, she got it in her head that his name was Austin Powers.

28:47 So.

28:48 So there's that. Yeah, baby.

28:53 Duke and Grimes, they did Duke and Duke and Cammy. They did make the best out of what they had here.

28:59 And yeah, it's. I'm in favor of this. Obviously, it will lead to a match.

29:05 I was worried they were just going to book the match for next week, so I was happy when I heard poker. That should be a fun next step in this feud. Cameron Grimes is like the RK-Bro of NXT. He's constantly getting crossover segments. RK-Bro didn't get one this past Monday, but it's been true more often than not.

29:26 And the work is there, and they are fun, and the company's So, yeah, not the greatest segment in the world, but a nice stepping stone towards something that should be more entertaining.

29:40 Next week.

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30:51 I'm pretty much going to parrot a lot of what, what Tom just said. You know, I, I wouldn't say this was the greatest Cameron Grimes segment in the world, but it was still enjoyable. I still had, I still enjoyed watching it. Cameron Grimes and Duke Hudson, this whole poker thing. I liked the segments last week. Um, you know, Jack, uh, that joined me last week. He also really enjoyed these poker segments. It reminded him a lot of, uh, you know, he was, he was really, you know, from like the eighties, you know, uh, late seventies, early eighties. It reminded him a lot of like those types of segments. Um, So you're really, really on board with those. And I'm curious to see what this whole poker showdown thing is going

31:30 to be next week. Are they going to be playing poker in the middle of the ring? Are they going to try and maybe do something like double or nothing and get some giant poker chips or something?

31:40 And I don't know. It's going to be weird.

31:43 I'm not sure what a poker showdown is during a wrestling show, but we'll find out next week.

31:49 And like you said, Kelly, I'm kind of.

31:53 I'm kind of giving it a pass because of the talent involved. Um, generally I think something like this, I'd roll my eyes at and be like a poker showdown.

32:00 Come on, what the hell?

32:02 But it's, it's a, it's Cameron Grimes and anything he's done so far since debuting has been just gold. And Duke Hudson, since he's been in this new iteration of this character, even before the whole poker gimmick, really. And he kind of just started playing this bad guy type character. Um, I've really enjoyed his, his heel gimmick. It kind of, again, reminds me a little bit of an old school type of a heel, but, but he's got like a new edge to him as well.

32:29 I like it. I like what's going on.

32:33 It's not my favorite of the Cameron Grimes things, But it's certainly intriguing.

32:41 I think the work that he and L.A. Knight did was phenomenal.

32:46 That, I think, is some of my favorite stuff that he's done so far. But this has some potential, and looking forward to see where this goes.

32:57 Durrell, go ahead with another.

32:58 Okay.

33:04 Okay.

33:06 Now, my next thing, and Tom might not like me, but my next thing, I want to go to the opening match. I understand that they like talk to the attraction, but they're doing the overkill with having their announcers trying to talk them into seeming more credible than what they really are.

33:30 The. The....

33:35 Piping in champs and boos throughout the match. When you're seeing people not moving and on their hands, didn't really get me. I understand they go for a look, but if a look is part of the three things you need in wrestling, two of the things they don't have, mic skills and talking, and two of the people in the next five years have been wrestling for 10 years.

34:04 And my whole thing is I just don't... I've fallen out of WWE and any wrestling company with those type of pushes. I don't like these type of characters. Especially if you get rid of other people and one person that you just called up, you get rid of her when. In wrestling terms, she is just as worse as some of those women. But she can talk better, and she's got to look herself. So she's got two of the three.

34:42 They only have one, but that's another thing. Or you're going into a gimmick that has no ceiling and has no purpose, like it has no purpose to the titles or anything of the sort. And it's hard to build up rivalries or feuds because people just– going off looks and stuff like that when this lead down into the Eva Marie type of category which she's just been cut for the second time so that's a future that I see but the match was I guess okay kind of poorly wrestled ready to see what they're going to do with it they let them win where you guys see this going or and where could this go because I'm not liking it. I don't think it adds anything to either of the titles. It don't make you want to see anybody beat them or anything. And they're not building

35:38 anybody up to that. What do you guys think?

35:45 So I'm more or less with you.

35:48 Like, and especially when you hit the line, it doesn't make me want to see people beat them. Like, It actually makes me kind of tune out to the championships because they're not doing a lot for me in these particular hands. I like Dolan. I tolerate Jane, I guess. And Mandy Rose has been there a long time to only be.

36:19 As good as she is.

36:21 She's the best one on the mic of these three, which is not meant to be a comment on her.

36:28 Really?

36:30 There's just so much work to be done here.

36:33 So it's weird to, like, I knew they were going to give this group all the gold, but it does seem like it's so jarring when this was very recently the women's division to be in.

36:55 This and stardom. and Impact, of course.

37:00 But it's just, yeah, it's kind of made me occasionally forget who the champions are, which I do when they're not, when either they're not doing much or it just doesn't genuinely interest me. I'm in favor of the Heels winning in this match. Dolan pins Carter at 1249 with actually a pretty sweet finisher.

37:30 I liked what she did. It was kind of an abdominal stretch into a bomb.

37:36 I don't really know how to say what I saw, but it's something like that. And I thought the ring work in the match was proficient, competent.

37:52 If slow enough.

37:53 At times, but it was fine.

37:56 1249, it was our longest match on a show that had just as much wrestling as the previous version of NXT, right around 52 minutes, which is right where that show ended all the time.

38:13 Nate on the opener.

38:16 Okay, so I'm kind of with you guys as well, although I'm– and I can't even believe I'm saying this. I might actually be a little bit higher on it than you guys are. So I don't completely dislike Toxic Attraction. They– they're not my favorite thing on NXT by a long shot.

38:37 And Kelly is.

38:38 Like, as you just said, where this was like the division, this was like the brand for women's wrestling, this, this group, um, as well as really a lot of the women on, on the roster right now, kind of leave a little bit to be desired in terms of like actual wrestling ability. Um, they're, they're passable, but it's, it's not, you know, some of the, the absolute, just like classics we've gotten over the past few years.

39:03 Um, so, okay.

39:06 With, with toxic attraction, their gimmick, like I, I, I kind of understand where Darrell's coming from, like not wanting to see like the.

39:13 TNA and things like that on the show. And I'm, it's weird. Cause I'm, I'm kind of torn with it.

39:19 Like there's a part of me that's like, all right, yeah, there's, you know, it's, it's kind of reminiscent of the attitude era and, and all that stuff and, you know, whatever. But at the same time i think if it's done well it it actually can work and this isn't like the attitude era where they're just presenting scantily clad women to be just eye candy like they're actually presenting them as like competitors and champions and confident characters. And I'm kind of okay with that. I definitely see both sides of the coin in terms of like, you know, the look and the gimmick, but I think if they keep going in this direction and they don't do that with every single woman in NXT, we'd kind of saw some

40:07 of that with like Electra Lopez and stuff, but I feel like that kind of fits her character too.

40:11 That might've been interesting. or whatever.

40:13 But regardless, as long as we kind of, it kind of stays in a little bit of a bubble here with toxic attraction and whatnot.

40:19 I'm, I'm, I'm okay with it.

40:21 I think it's kind of tasteful and it'll, it'll.

40:24 Be all right.

40:26 I feel like they're also, because like, like you guys just said right now, the title scenes all around kind of feel a little blah, like really where, you know, we're not sure where everything's going to be fallen and things like that. I think right now toxic attraction is still just getting established as a the top quote attractions on, you know, on, on the brand for the women's division.

40:50 And I, I, again, can't believe I'm saying that, but that's, the position they're putting them in. I don't think they're ready for the spot, to be honest. Mandy Rose is, as you said, she's as good as she is. She's, you know, for as long as she's been with the company, like six things, what, 2015 tough enough.

41:09 It was, so she's been around for like six years or so.

41:12 You know, I feel like she should probably be a little bit better than where she's at.

41:16 She's certainly passable, but not.

41:19 The best, you know, that, that they've got, they've got to offer the best homegrown talent they've got period.

41:27 Gigi Dolan is, is certainly my favorite of the group.

41:30 I think she's got a lot to offer, but I think she needs to work on like her career, like just her, her, her in-ring ring in-ring work.

41:39 Is fine it's the outer ring stuff i feel.

41:41 Like she needs to work on a little bit um mike rick's okay whatever jc jane i kind of feel the same way with you i just tolerate her she's there she kind of feels like bobby fish she's just there you.

41:53 Know uh i don't like her.

41:55 I don't hate her she's just bobby fish um but yeah you know i'm i'm with how protected the women's division has been for so long, it is kind of almost sad in a way to see it where it is right now, because I do, I've kind of forget who the, I haven't forgotten who the champions are since tox traction one, because it's a stable.

42:18 It's holding them and all that right now. But yeah, I mean, for a while, like.

42:23 I could not, like, if you asked me a couple of few weeks ago, who the NXT tag team, tag team champions were women's tag team champions, where I would not have been able to tell you it was the O'Shea and Joey Stark.

42:33 I would have had to really think about it.

42:34 You know, it's not, they're not really divisions that have been catching fire and it's I'd like to see it kind of pick back up.

42:45 Yeah.

42:49 Let's see how quickly I can zoom through the preamble part of this. It seems unrelated, but Darrell did bring up the cuts and.

42:58 Setting aside.

42:59 Of course, this is like heel turn territory, but it is it is how I see it. Setting aside attitude issues.

43:09 And I'm not just talking about the one that's been tackled.

43:12 But, you know, attitude issues as they apply, people refusing the vaccine as they apply.

43:17 They just did that one to themselves. I mean, come on.

43:20 I do feel that apart from Scarlett, the one cut of the list that I disagree with, because Scarlett had a lot of potential in a lot of different departments. And again, I don't know what other things that previously already stated that may have applied to her, but I feel all the other cuts fit in perfectly. One of two categories. One is, for better or for worse, their runs are behind them. Whether it be Ember Moon or someone who was hinting that they probably wanted to move on to another chapter anyway, like Oney Lorcan, their runs are behind them. Or somebody like Trey Baxter or B-Fab who.

44:02 Are getting opportunities, whether they are newer or whether they've been signed for a little while, like a carrying cross, they keep getting opportunities, but they keep on not proving themselves in those opportunities. And so the entire list was made up of people like that. To me, I say all of that because it relates to Mandy Rose in the sense that She absolutely would have fit in either of those categories at varying points in her career, and I would not have argued with her cut either. And that's just because Durrell was drawing the saying, well, they're cutting this person and this person, but Mandy Rose is still around. And yeah, I don't know. Well, we know why Mandy Rose is still around and whether we agree

44:40 with that reason or not. And however superficial that reason may be, they find her to be marketable. And I'm just looking at the fact that from where I'm sitting, I say again that I feel she is absolutely living up to the role that she's been given. It doesn't feel like that much of a predictive thing anymore to say that NXT is trying to position them as the faces of the brand. I mean, how many times have they opened the show now? And I feel like they have succeeded in becoming the reason to watch NXT right now.

45:13 Not only is the signaling there that they are a big deal, but I feel they're living up to the spot. Should JC Jane keep her feet away from the ropes?

45:20 Yeah, probably.

45:23 Gg dolan probably peel back a bit on the whole i'm the like off balance one who sticks out my tongue a lot yeah probably but other than that no notes i'm enjoying the trajectory i think the performance really lives up so i i wish that i could try to um enlighten you more as you as i forget what exactly the exact word was that you used to rail but i wish i could Tell you more as to why I enjoyed this, but I just the way you described it versus the way I'm describing it, it almost seems like we're just looking at different things. And I don't think either of us are incorrect for that.

45:58 It's just that it almost seems like we're talking about two different matches. I just very much, you know, apart from JC catching her feet on the ropes again, I very much enjoyed this match. I always, you know, for their part, I always enjoy Casey and late, uh, Casey and Lacey that still applies. And then you've got, uh, like I mentioned with the Persia Parada match, um, you've still got EO working with Tom caster, seeming like the two of them are, are tag teaming, being the player coaches, the T the on TV, we're doing it live coaches. Uh, and, and EO was the glue of everything. And it's, it's very much working for me and it's, it's fun to watch. Um, and I, uh, as far as you know who the champions are and whether or not they're building up challengers

46:39 i mean we've got raquel in her own feud away from the championship but still mentioning to mandy hey keep that title warm for me so whether or not it happens at least putting the energy out there that a rematch is possible while also of course you've got the uh the kaylee ray thing Um, which is, which is very interesting to me. I mean, it's hard to imagine that Kaylee ends up winning that match. I know as much as it pains us to, to envision that, um, because it's Kaylee, but you know, I, I think that would be an interesting, um, matchup uh and as for the tag belts i'm not worried about it because you know still just repeating myself as i always do here but the tag belts are just like a different look

47:23 for what was already the perennial to the top title segment of the women's division um the tag belts don't really mean anything and they've just been like swapped around all over the place it's just You know, uh, it could have been a personal feud in a different, in a bygone era, um, or era, but you know, in a pre pre before these belts. And now that the belts are here, it's the belts. And so the fact that there aren't really any other tag teams other than, um, Casey and Lacey, I'm not worried about it.

47:55 They'll come up with someone. It's not a big deal.

47:59 Before pushing play on the Wade Keller pro wrestling post shows, check out pwtorch.com and our TV review section. and skim through a full rundown of the TV show. If you didn't see it, that's your way to get an overview of what happened before you dive into our in-depth analysis of the key happenings on the show. That's PWTorch.com, your home for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with my TV reports. And also check out our NXT and Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports on Saturday nights, and of course our live pay-per-view and PLE coverage on weekends. All waiting for you at PWTorch.com.

48:36 On Raquel saying, keep that belt warm for me, I basically wrote in my recap that I thought it was the most woodenly spoken line that I've heard on NXT.

48:50 It was bad.

48:51 I laughed out loud. The motorcycle roaring over it, too, yeah.

48:56 I'm convinced that she was so concerned with controlling the motorcycle, hitting her spot, hitting her mark. Getting in the right spot so she didn't cover the other girls or.

49:08 Go past them.

49:10 And then all of that business that by the time she got to her line, it was secondary.

49:16 Oh, my God. It was so bad.

49:20 I will I will admit that coming in on the motorcycle at a point coming into the into the performance center in front of the crowd on the motorcycle at a point where she was not expected to appear, I felt was a cool first appearance after losing the title. spot for her. And so that probably overcomes that for me.

49:41 But yes, it absolutely stood out how wooden that delivery was.

49:45 So I agree there.

49:46 And the energy when she actually got into the ring was.

49:51 Quite a bit better.

49:53 So you could tell they were done at different times because when she was out there.

49:59 Go ahead. It was an agreeable crowd tonight. It was an agreeable crowd tonight.

50:03 I think, you know, again, Darrell mentioned the crowd as well, and maybe I was just looking at different people, but I didn't feel like some of the chants were piped in, at least the ones I was detecting, and actually a lot of people were chanting for Mandy.

50:18 Yeah, it was, they were no good. Nate, go ahead. Or did I throw to you already?

50:25 You already did.

50:26 Okay. I'm just trying to Get away from Mandy Chance.

50:31 Darrell, if you got one more, go ahead, because I got just the one caller tonight.

50:39 Okay.

50:41 And, yes, I do have one more. Just to respond to that, the let go that I was comparing to was the B-Fab one and, yeah, the Scarlet Bardoke. And, you know, you just get her to resign. And, yes, she's horrible in the ring, which can be admitted. But she's better on the mic than any of those three and got a look as well. And since those three have been leading in NXT 2.0, it's not been seen like a winner. It has been going down week by week anyway. So out of the four, out of the five weeks outside of one of those weeks with Halloween having.

51:24 So I don't, I just don't like them as a whole. I don't like them as a whole. I don't find that interesting. It makes me want to turn off the NXT and and not even call in or do anything. But outside of that, two things that caught my attention, I'm continuing to like what they're doing with the Diamond Mine.

51:48 I like how they had them training and then watching the footage and then Malcolm Bivens, who we need to get even more talking time with them, but I like the talking time that they give him and what he said and how he built this up. and everything. I'm liking that they continue on the feud. And I'm interested to see. I'm guessing that we're gonna have a Diamond Mine feud in that War Games cage, which I would love to see. And you have a girl, maybe even including having a woman, inside of the war games cage with another people. So I want to see how they build that up. And it's looking like they're building that up for something like that. That could be something that they build into war games. How did you guys like

52:35 that whole segment and everything like that? And do you think that's something that they can build into a war games practice if they came out with a pay-per-view?

52:45 Yeah, so I, too, love Malcolm Bivens, and I'll co-sign all of that. I feel like if you took Pauly Dangerously, now Paul Heyman, and Slick, and put them together, maybe that's who you'd end up with. Because I'd try to compare him to some of the greats, because I think he could be one of the greats. But I love that I can't. easily put a label on him. He, he wouldn't be the second anyone. He would be the first Malcolm Bivens.

53:14 And I absolutely want to see him on.

53:17 A higher plane, regardless of who he's working with. Just love, love, love every second that he gets.

53:24 On the mic.

53:24 Um, So, yes, we got Jacket Time versus the Creed Brothers. Jacket Time, that being a guy with a jacket and a guy who travels time. So don't overthink it, folks. Ike Manjiro and Kushida versus the Creed Brothers. The Creed Brothers go over in 748 when Julius pins.

53:47 Ike Manjiro after some... distraction from, uh, from Roddy.

53:54 It appears that Roddy will be the guy who maybe gets into yet another war games.

54:01 Cause I don't know, I don't know who else you do war games with at this point. Uh, there are no.

54:10 It seemed like a few months ago, we were talking about which of these many, many factions are going to be in war games. And now we're like, find anyone to be in war games, especially now that we know it's four weeks away.

54:30 Not even four weeks away.

54:31 We got three more NXTs before this happens. So we gotta make hay, folks. I would suggest we will find out next week because they will not try to keep building that show without letting us know. And yes, I will say. Yes, this is the segment. This is the one where this will happen. Is this also where we got Odyssey?

55:02 This is where we got Odyssey, right?

55:04 Yes.

55:05 Okay, so this is where we got Odyssey Jones. Let me go to two emails. This one is from Blake Riley. Hey, guys, I really try to relax when I watch NXT. Some of the changes I don't see too much of an issue with, and even though I have no idea who– with Joe– Uh, Gacy, what Joe Gacy is saying most of the time, I'm willing to see it through, but jacket time, jacket time.

55:28 What have they done to Kushida? He went from being the cruiserweight champion to being in a ridiculous comedy team. I couldn't even enjoy the Creed brothers. Couldn't even enjoy the Creed brothers because I was so annoyed by that name. Thanks for letting me vent Blake from the Blake and Sal show celebrating show 400 this week. P.S.

55:44 I did appreciate Vic giving Wade crap for the core. I always hated the spelling of that team.

55:50 So did I. So does Wade.

55:54 Yeah, I don't take issue with the name Jack at time. I don't take issue with two low card guys having their gimmicks mashed together and then having their team name just being.

56:05 A portmanteau of the things that they both do.

56:09 I do have issue with Kushida being one of them because he has a ceiling that is much, much higher than the low tag team on the totem pole. But they are not willing to use him in that way. That's the issue for me. I don't care that a comedy team is called Jacket Time in theory.

56:31 Like, that doesn't bother me at all. And I thought.

56:34 that it was okay although this match was 7 48 and four minutes were on commercial so it's not like we saw a whole lot of our crossover match here tom.

56:46 Yeah that that is the exact issue is how much time they're going to spend on it because when you get jacket time sometimes you only get two minutes but you know sometimes it's going to take like 15 or 20 to really get some good jacket time.

57:00 But I've been known to enjoy.

57:03 I'm shaking my head so loudly that it came.

57:07 Out as a laugh. I'm just like, where do I stop this? Where do I stop this?

57:11 Sometimes you take your pants off first.

57:15 Actually, oh no, he got called up already.

57:17 So....

57:20 Uh, I, I, I actually like this.

57:22 I will admit that at first I had the same, I had Blake's same reaction. Um, and then I immediately pulled it back and I thought, you know what? If Kushida had been on that list of cuts, I wouldn't have been surprised.

57:35 So this is okay.

57:37 It seems like he's probably winding down his WWE stint anyway. What else are they really going to do with him realistically? So this works for me. And I, you know, yes, the silly, the wordplay, well, the intended wordplay, but then also the, you know, the way that it sounds when you actually say it out loud is there.

57:58 But I, you know, it's the first time.

58:01 that I saw Ike Minjiro on a show and I was like, okay, I think, I think I'm starting to get the humor a little bit. Maybe he just needed the Han Solo rub from Kushida, but, um, you know, a little rub in your jacket time usually helps out. So, um, I think that, you know, the duo is just silly enough to work. Uh, and then my only other note is, well, I guess there's a six man incoming. Uh, so, so I guess that, you know, bleeds into the war games conversation. I, uh, Boy, if we didn't get that Daniel Vido segment tonight, then Zion Quinn, that Zion Quinn segment tonight, then I think I would say that Santos Escobar should challenge Ciampa for the championship, and then Ciampa should team up with Breaker and,

58:49 I don't know, somebody else, and go up against Legado del Fantasma. But, like, I just, what's holding me up here is do you really want Roddy and Kushida in there being, you know, running the match with, you know, Smith and and Caster, whoever they throw in there with the creeds and Jiro and Jones. It just it has not been in the history of war games. I know we're in a different version of NXT now, but it has not been a thing that they've done with war games to put in people that they don't trust to handle all the craziness that usually comes out of it.

59:34 So I'm looking at that.

59:38 And I'd be down with that, but they put people in a ladder match that shouldn't be in a ladder match.

59:45 Okay, fair. I just don't know.

59:50 Yeah.

59:50 OK, well, I guess on the on the subject and with Blake's name coming up, I will mention that he has already recruited me to be on the December 1st NXT War Games preview.

1:00:03 Show, notably not takeover. So we were all right.

1:00:06 Everyone was there going to were there going to be any more takeovers or not?

1:00:10 Both yes and no.

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1:01:07 Yeah.

1:01:08 Now this one falls in that really weird area with, um, what was the first one?

1:01:14 Arrival. Arrival.

1:01:16 Yes.

1:01:18 So they'll go back to it and they'll number it again and we'll be like, wait, Arrival doesn't count, but NXT War Games does?

1:01:25 Come on, guys.

1:01:27 Oh, boy.

1:01:28 These are the things you care about, particularly if you like Star Trek or comic books, but now apparently also wrestling.

1:01:36 Oh, check, check, and check.

1:01:38 There you go.

1:01:40 All right.

1:01:40 So I enjoyed.

1:01:43 I kind of enjoyed the whole jacket time thing.

1:01:47 Like, so here's the, here's the deal.

1:01:49 I want to see Kushida in a more meaningful role period. Like, I feel like he's got so much more to offer than what he's been able to do on in NXT, you know, whether it be injuries or, you know, start and stop pushes, whatever. I feel like he's got more to offer, but You know what? It's TV time. He's getting TV time. And Ike Manjiro is kind of a guilty pleasure. He's freaking hilarious. So to see them kind of together and just being weird and wacky and zany is just.

1:02:20 It's fun. It's cool.

1:02:21 I'd rather see Kushida doing something else, but... if this is what they're going to give me, I'm, I'm all right with it. It was, it was interesting. It was definitely interesting. The Creed brothers for this match, I thought were fantastic. I anytime they get in the ring, I just love watching them like, and it's weird because even though they're fantastic grapplers, it's like they move a little strange in the ring. I don't know if it's just because they're like really tall and lanky or what, but like they kind of just move a little differently around the ring than just about anybody else that I've seen.

1:02:57 And that really intrigues me.

1:03:00 I like that. It gets me.

1:03:03 And I obviously think them going over is obviously the right move, building up Diamond Mine, which kind of gets into the war game stuff.

1:03:13 Games. Definitely glad we're seeing war games.

1:03:16 I think it's interesting that the war games logo looks so much like a NXT black and gold logo. And it's like, they just got away from like all the barbed wire and those dark colors. And now here we are back, back with all of that. I just thought that was interesting and kind of funny. But I think diamond mine is probably tailor made for war games at this point. It's, I mean, geez, like, yeah, like Kelly, like you said, we were talking about all these different stables and things that could potentially hit row and legato in, in, you know, in, in war games would have been fantastic or something like that. But obviously now we're kind of down to like, who's it going to be? I'm not really sure how they're going to build to a couple

1:04:03 of war games matches here. So I'm sure they're probably going to do to do a men's and women's really interested to see how they wind up building this.

1:04:10 Cause like, I can't really see if they're going to put.

1:04:14 Diamond mine in a war games match, now that's a mid card war games match. Diamond mine isn't being pushed as a, as a main event, like level, you know, faction at all. So it's a mid card war games match. They haven't really done that. They've always usually been, you know, main event level spots. So like part of me is like, okay, yeah, it makes sense to put diamond mine in there. But then at the same time, I'm like, but does it, And if they do that, will they wind up maybe doing two men's war games, not a woman's war games?

1:04:46 Will they do three war games match? I don't want to see three war games matches in one night.

1:04:51 I mean, maybe I do.

1:04:53 I don't know.

1:04:53 But it doesn't sound good. I feel like it would just.

1:04:57 There will not be three. I also think there will not be two. Oh, really?

1:05:04 Really? Maybe. I just don't know. They've done two for a couple years now.

1:05:08 I know. I know they have.

1:05:10 I was about to say that. I was about to say that I just realized we're going to get Persia Parada in a War Games match.

1:05:16 And that's why I'm talking myself out of there even being two.

1:05:21 Yeah.

1:05:23 Because, like, literally, that shouldn't be.

1:05:27 She shouldn't.

1:05:28 Ooh.

1:05:29 She shouldn't.

1:05:29 No, you get, it's, you know, the collection of baby faces led by Raquel against Toxic Attraction and Dakota.

1:05:36 Yeah.

1:05:38 Oh, I suppose Dakota could.

1:05:39 Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Oh, that makes Raquel Haley. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be, you could, you could put ego in there, but I don't know. I, I, okay.

1:05:49 I'm just fantasy booking it out loud at this point, but I was, I was trying to force Persia in there, but she's not going to be in there without Indy. Um, and if they want to do, yeah, you get Raquel, EO, Kaylee. Um, Oh, and Cora Jade, obviously Cora Jade is the other one. Oh yeah.

1:06:04 Oh yeah.

1:06:05 I guess so.

1:06:06 Um, but Dakota and those three is going to be the hardest time I've ever had to figure out who I'm cheering for in the match. You already helped match when, uh, can, can Dakota Kai and Gigi Dolan win while Mandy Rose and JC Jane lose?

1:06:24 Is that an option? Um, Oh boy. Okay. We, we, we got this one out of the way. Um, Drell, if you've got one more, go ahead. Otherwise, we will run for the exits here.

1:06:42 Okay. Don't really have one more per se, so that'll be it for me. I would just love to hear you guys speak on one thing, Dakota Kai and her seemingly triple threat feud that she's going in and how they had her come out there with the manic look, which I like, which I think I would have loved to see them came back with sooner. But, yeah, that's it for me.

1:07:11 Thanks as always, Darrell.

1:07:14 I love Dakota Kai, but there wasn't a damn thing wrong with what she was doing before. I don't think this tweak was necessary, but if this tweak kept her on my television screen, then bless the tweak. She doesn't seem to be tailor-made for the role she's playing, but she is a hard worker. And she's going to find herself in this role if it takes.

1:07:47 Her a couple of weeks, a few weeks, a month.

1:07:49 I don't know.

1:07:51 She will find it because she's very good.

1:07:56 But right now, there are growing pains as she went from a role that is perfect for her and didn't need work to one that is more high concept and And cartoonish and is going to require a different calibration.

1:08:17 She looks the part. There's certainly nothing wrong with that.

1:08:21 They're doing what they with the shock pink going just further and further in that direction.

1:08:26 And.

1:08:27 I guess that.

1:08:35 I'm surprised that the her and Raquel thing keeps going like away from the championship. I guess I just thought that this would be swept under the rug. I thought maybe I thought Dakota at this point was either going to be gone or on the main roster. I'm very, very surprised to see her here. I'm very surprised that I'm still talking about her on this show because I did not think she would be on this show anymore.

1:09:05 I thought that they were going to either end her time there or move her to the main roster. I just, I'm surprised that another tweak was necessary. So that's why it's tough for me. to even figure out what my thoughts are because I thought she was done on the show.

1:09:24 Um, so no issue with it necessarily. Uh, but we.

1:09:31 Didn't get to see a lot of it because she got cut off real quick. That is a big picture thing I wanted to bring up about this episode of NXT is that the art of the promo is very important and nobody is getting too, uh, try to paint on their canvas to make art from their promo because every promo is being interrupted immediately.

1:10:01 Mackenzie Mitchell had four, maybe it was five interviews. And in all of them, somebody interfered.

1:10:09 Somebody stormed in on the interview within five seconds on all of them.

1:10:16 And, It was very frustrating. Like, it made me laugh by the time they got to the second to last one. And then the last one, you just know what's going to happen.

1:10:26 If it happens every time, then it's expected and it's not fun. Let people cut a promo every now and then. That is something that they need to learn. And that's what this is supposed to be, NXT. I didn't know I was going to get so riled about this, but why wouldn't I?

1:10:47 Tom, go ahead. It was extremely noticeable. It was extremely noticeable in those interviews. I will I will actually go ahead by bouncing a question back at you real quick, because this is two weeks of the podcast in a row. And honestly, three, because people were talking. We were getting emails after Halloween Havoc talking about Dakota's new gimmick. She's what am I missing? I like genuine question.

1:11:11 How is she new? How is she different? How is this a new character for her?

1:11:14 Because I'm just viewing her as Dakota coming back for revenge and it's not a new character.

1:11:20 It's still Dakota. So what's what is different?

1:11:22 I think they're going for unhinged. I think they're going for crazy. There's that inner rage like. putting your hands through your hair, like just ripping out. I think that they're going for broken.

1:11:39 Crazy.

1:11:41 Like that is.

1:11:42 And I agree. I agree with that.

1:11:44 That is what I think they're going for, but we're not seeing much of it because they're cutting her off.

1:11:49 Right. Gotcha. Understood.

1:11:50 OK.

1:11:52 Yeah, I guess I already mentioned Raquel overcoming wooden delivery with a cool motorcycle entrance. You know, just she lost the title. She might not have appeared on the show again and gone to do main roster stuff or whatever. but she shows up in the motorcycle at an unexpected moment and, you know, cool. And like on paper, it doesn't even sound cool, but I think she, I think she pulled it off. It was, it was done.

1:12:20 Okay. And yeah, just the big question.

1:12:23 I mentioned this a few times was, I mean, I guess it's been about a month now that I've been saying like, okay, so if this is Dakota coming back and she's feuding with Raquel and That's great and all, and there's still meat left on that bone because they only did a one-match feud to that takeover. Yeah, that was a takeover, right? Was it the final takeover? Anyway, yeah.

1:12:51 I'll have to look it up after I'm done blabbing. But where was I?

1:12:58 Oh, right.

1:12:58 But because this is NXT 2.0 now, the whole thing....

1:13:06 Every single storyline, every single segment has to involve one of the newer wrestlers. So Cora Jade was around before 2.0, but when she showed up, it was just like, ah, there it is.

1:13:19 You know, I.

1:13:21 don't expect them to gracefully handle it. Um, I think, you know, with, uh, what Sacoa and Waller and Knight, um, it's not particularly graceful.

1:13:32 It's just sort of awkwardly jammed in there.

1:13:35 Um, but yeah, I, I, you know, it makes more sense in the context of 2.0, put 0.0 though, if that, if that tracks, what do you got Nate?

1:13:49 Um, Okay, okay, yeah, I guess I'm jumping in. So, to be honest, I don't really have a whole heck of a lot to add to what you guys are talking about here. Like, you know, Dakota Kai, she feels like.

1:14:05 like to me, she does feel like a little bit of a new character.

1:14:07 It like, I hear what you're saying, Tom, like you, she kind of feels like a, like more along the lines of where she was like, but I do see what Kelly's talking about, like going kind of that more unhinged character, like when she came out tonight, her hair kind of all messed.

1:14:22 Up and things like that. But yeah, I'll be honest.

1:14:26 I wasn't expecting to get thrown to, so I'm not really sure what to say. That's all right.

1:14:32 You know, I guess I like, I noticed those things too, I do. new character or, you know, a new gimmick or or just even just a new version of her old character. I just figured it was her playing into the storyline, like like when Adrian Neville lost the cruiserweight championship to Enzo and he showed up on Raw looking like he hadn't slept in a week and he was just emotionally destroyed. He wasn't a different character. He was just affected by the storyline. So that's what that's how I've been viewing the the Dakota thing. And I guess if I.

1:15:08 You know what?

1:15:08 Just because it's the next thing down in my notes, if Kelly is not back yet, and if he is, he can cut me off.

1:15:15 You know, darn system updates and all.

1:15:17 I will ask you, Nate, what you thought of the grizzled young veterans video. I guess this is, you know, boy, it's really just the next thing down in my notes. This is probably the kind of thing we can just throw in at the end. I'm not the one with the show notes.

1:15:31 Good point. No, I....

1:15:35 I actually enjoyed it.

1:15:36 It's a little bit of a different– it's a little different than what we're normally– like we're normally used to.

1:15:42 Out of them, a little bit more comedic and things.

1:15:45 But, well, I guess actually in a way, no, because they kind of showed up during like the Cameron Grimes stuff and during the golf course and things like that.

1:15:53 That was all kind of comedic. Yeah, so you're kind of thinking about that. It's not– I guess not super comedic.

1:15:58 Out of the like their wheelhouse in a way um but i enjoyed it i thought it was uh i thought it was cool um i'll be honest i don't remember a whole heck of a lot from it um like it doesn't like stick in my brain but i do know like i mean i remember you know like i said i kind of enjoyed it um but uh what about you what did you think of that segment I think the issue with it is that it felt like it started halfway through or it felt like maybe every other shot or every other line of dialogue was was removed.

1:16:31 In editing for some reason.

1:16:32 Like, I didn't understand what had happened until the end. They just flew through it so quick and there was no precedent for them unless I mean, is there something that I missed from last week's TV where they set up that they were going to do something like this?

1:16:47 Because I get that.

1:16:50 You know, Gibson is trying to train Drake how to do better referee distractions by like running, you know, by like pickpocketing on the street.

1:17:00 Yeah.

1:17:00 Or what is it? They're like robbing an Uber delivery person.

1:17:03 I can see.

1:17:04 I like I don't even know because they just it was such a slapdash little piece. But also, does James Drayton really need help with that? I don't think they were really lacking in that department. I think these guys were pretty good at that already.

1:17:17 They've been the team that does it the most.

1:17:21 Yeah.

1:17:21 So it really just reeks of someone decided that GYV needs a thing, which, okay, fine, I guess they kind of do because... You know, I'm the guy who always says that just being good at wrestling is not much of a character. Works for some people, but those are an elite few. So, okay, but this was a rotten introduction.

1:17:47 Yeah, and I think there's always been more than that just because of the Zach Gibson mic work on the way, but they just seem to, like, shy away from that, especially in the breakneck– Wednesday Night Wars version of NXT where they were like, there's no time for GYB to do literally the thing that keeps them the most over.

1:18:11 Just get to the match. That did them no favors.

1:18:16 If you're skipping out on Gibson's mic time and Blake has become like decent, then what the heck?

1:18:26 What the heck's the point?

1:18:28 You know that last segment you're just listening to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sign up for. up with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app. With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the options to listen commercial-free And with upper tier options, unlock our VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout

1:19:10 the week every week.

1:19:13 Okay, so there was other stuff on this show.

1:19:18 There were other emails as well. This is from JB. I was supposed to read this. A little earlier, it's JB from Detroit. For the first time tonight, I saw a lot of potential in Odyssey Jones. We've previously seen.

1:19:31 Flashes, but tonight I think he got his best reaction to date.

1:19:34 Granted, I acknowledge the PC crowd of regulars can be weird.

1:19:38 I still think he has a long way to go in terms of promos and in-ring performance, but he definitely has charisma and an it factor that connects him to the crowd. What do you think is Jones' ceiling and basement, and who is the best comparison to him you can think of? My comparison is Keith Lee with.

1:19:52 A better attitude, allegedly. Second, if Cameron Grimes has had.

1:19:58 Say in creative over the past year, plus he might be the.

1:20:01 Best kind in the business. Okay, I'm going to try to figure out what that is. I can kind of make out what he's saying.

1:20:09 From connecting his redneck character to a zombie haunted house match at Halloween Havoc 2020 to parlaying his Beverly Hillbilly Bitcoin character into a feud involving the Million Dollar Man and LA Knight currently combing the redneck character, combining the redneck character and Million Dollar character and involving it in Duke Hudson's poker room. He has been on quite the roll and has always had something for himself to move on to.

1:20:32 What do you guys make of the evolution of Grimes? Love the show, and go VIP! Love the evolution of Grimes, and he continues to... Yeah, I mean, you nailed it.

1:20:43 He's segued everything naturally into a new feud.

1:20:49 That is what wrestling is supposed to be, and at the height of.

1:20:55 At really high times in wrestling, it seems like everyone's taking a little something from their last feud and gaining something and bringing.

1:21:03 It to their next feud.

1:21:05 The Attitude Era, for all its faults, everybody always had something to do and a clearly defined goal.

1:21:12 And that was also true.

1:21:15 Hogan is the great kind of crummy factor hanging over the boom of the eighties because like so much had to revolve around him. But, uh, taking that out of the equation, um, it was also a very good time because again, it seemed like no matter where you were on the card, you had some sort of feud.

1:21:37 They gave them to everyone. Um, so yeah, uh, Oh, ceiling and basement of Jones. That's interesting. I mean, this guy has a wild ceiling and basement.

1:21:55 I don't know how high he can go. I want to say the highest he gets is like maybe like a Kane or Mark Henry or somebody like that who can visit the main event, maybe even win that championship for a small amount of time.

1:22:18 Um, but that's it.

1:22:20 Uh, I, I don't see him as a prolonged main event player. He would have to change something about that character in order.

1:22:30 To get there.

1:22:31 But tonight, maybe tonight's version of him is the first in a series of thousands of steps towards getting him there.

1:22:40 Um, And his basement is, I don't know, Mantar.

1:22:45 I think his basement is pretty low if things really break wrong for him.

1:22:51 But I would bet against that because.

1:22:54 His basement is not Mantar because Mantar had no charisma.

1:22:58 But it could go real wrong for him as well, I think. Anything on this email, Tom?

1:23:09 Yeah, I think pretty much everybody's basement right now, unless you're somebody who already has it built in, like, you know, first name that's coming to mind is Drew McIntyre. Actually, I think everybody's basement right now is the 24-7 division is what I was going to say, and is what I am saying. And now I'm, since Drew was just the first name that came to mind, it's like, okay, well, he wouldn't even be involved in that segment. I think there was even a segment where the 24-7 champion at the time got laid out in front of Drew McIntyre, Elias and Corbin, maybe. And they all just looked at him like none of them wanted to pin him. So, so some people don't have that basement, but you know, like 95% of the company does. So that is his

1:23:49 basement and I can picture him there, but I am liking what I'm seeing. So I can picture him a lot higher as well. I don't want to go as far as to say a top title, even in a, you know, the sort.

1:24:00 Of situation that you're suggesting Kelly. But, you know, I.

1:24:04 Think maybe, Maybe in like a like an arcade bro type situation where, you know, he gets he tags up with a veteran and like that could be a pretty good height for what I'm seeing right now.

1:24:17 But obviously, there is a lot of potential to grow.

1:24:19 What JB is noticing about his connection with the crowd, the charisma, what it's definitely a routine that he does. Well, I don't know if routine isn't the exact right word, but it's definitely a routine. definitely a shtick that he does playing to the crowd um but it feels there there isn't a large element of it that feels genuine and i think that is the key to to that connection he has with the crowd and so for that reason and and other reasons that we i think we can just take as read i don't like the constant keith lee comparisons that i i see with him um because i i just i just don't yeah as red, but that's the key reason. Um, so, so when we're like, when JB asks, like, who is the best comparison point

1:25:04 for him?

1:25:05 Um, I'm like, um, is it do drop?

1:25:08 Like who, who, and you mentioned Hogan and, and I think you mentioned warrior, or at least you mentioned Hogan.

1:25:14 And I started thinking warrior.

1:25:16 I'm like, who are these guys who just did like this over.

1:25:18 The top playing to the.

1:25:21 Jones's main thing that he does that gets him over with the crowd right now so um so yeah i i can't think of anyone that has the exact uh thing that he's doing but it's it's in that wheelhouse anyway and um and the cameron grimes stuff yeah what i touched on earlier and what you just said kelly i think covers my response to that as well i thought.

1:25:41 About 1995 Bam Bam Bigelow as, um, as a height, but Bam Bam was by all accounts, kind of, uh, shunted aside by the click who weren't about his burgeoning popularity.

1:25:59 Um, Nate.

1:26:02 So I've been talking about Odyssey Jones. So like, I have been making a Keith Lee comparison to him, but I've been kind of calling him a comparison between, or, uh, like, uh, a mash between Keith Lee and Mark Henry is, is kind of what I see him as. Like, I feel like he has a lot of the agility and, and speed that Keith Lee has, but also like the brute, as well as the charisma that Keith Lee has. And then like the brute strength and the same kind of body type as, as Mark Henry. And they have, Bam Bam Bigelow was also somebody that did kind of come to mind for him as well. But I, I also feel like he might be not quite as polished yet to, to kind of get to kind of remind me too much of him.

1:26:51 So Bam Bam, I think of a lot.

1:26:53 Well, I guess I think of Bam Bam, like I always think of Bam Bam as a high flyer, but he's really not.

1:26:58 He just had the moonsault really. But anyway.

1:27:01 And he did cartwheels like that was early on. That was one of his things.

1:27:05 Yeah.

1:27:05 Yeah.

1:27:06 Yeah.

1:27:07 But but yeah, you know, I think it's it's going to be interesting to see where his trajectory takes him, because I feel like he has all the charisma in the world. He's got a million dollar smile. He's got a great look. And I feel like you're from from I think it was I think this JB's email. He said, you know, he's got some he's got a great attitude backstage, but.

1:27:32 you know, I feel like he's at everything that they're looking for in a big man. What is kind of yet to be seen is, is his in-ring ability.

1:27:41 He's not bad. He's good. You know, he's.

1:27:45 Not like, you know, 90, 97, 98, Mark Henry type, you know, whatever he's, he's good, but.

1:27:52 He's still green.

1:27:53 And there's still a lot there that I feel like he needs to work on before he's like ready for the main roster, ready for like an actual, you know, championship push and things like that. But I feel like if he's able to pick all that up and, and, and he's able to get like, actually get his feet under him and all that. I feel like he's at a really high ceiling, you know, and if not, I feel like maybe kind of, Unfortunately, kind of down like around like viscera, big vis type of a deal in terms of a big man is like literally.

1:28:26 The first thing that came to mind.

1:28:28 Maybe there's a better thing out there, but, you know, it's also eleven forty five at night and my brain isn't working all that great anymore. Not like it ever does in terms of Cameron Grimes.

1:28:40 Stuff yeah really.

1:28:43 I can't really say it better than what you said earlier Kelly I mean everything he does he's he just he makes gold you know whether it's I have no idea if he has any involvement in his gimmicks at all. I'm sure– I mean I know that they're told to bounce ideas off of each other and bounce ideas off of creative and whatever. But even if he doesn't have any sort of say in anything that he's been thrown, he's– I guess– You hear this a lot in wrestling.

1:29:12 He's taking chicken shit and making chicken salad. And he's doing it damn well. Consistently, anytime he's on TV, Cameron Grimes is somebody that I just want to see him. Matter of fact, I wrote in the Hits and Misses tonight, I called him arguably the most popular performer.

1:29:30 In NXT ever.

1:29:32 Because if you listen to any of the reactions out there tonight, and granted, this is the, you know, quote, full sale NXT crowd. It's not a full sale, but, you know, I'm going to still call them that. It's that, you know, NXT crowd that's a little bit quirky and wonky or whatever. but I feel like Cameron Grimes got the biggest pop of the night tonight. You know, and again, maybe that's just full sales, maybe not overall NXT audience, but everybody seems to be solidly behind him. We're solidly behind him. I haven't seen anybody, you know, in the countless articles that I've read about Cameron Grimes and NXT and, and, you know, all this other, I haven't seen anybody talk negatively of him. Whether it be his in-ring work, his

1:30:14 charisma backstage, anything like that. So, yeah, I, I love Grimes and I'm hoping, I'm hoping he sticks around for quite a while.

1:30:23 I know a guy who knows a guy who knows Cameron Grimes and, and I hear some very, very positive things about him.

1:30:33 Um as a dude.

1:30:35 So hopefully that's all true can't say it firsthand but have lots of reason to believe that it's probably true okay so um speaking of 11 45 at night let us mash four lower card matches together and uh see if there's anything to say about them Kaylee Ray defeats Sarray in four 52.

1:31:00 Uh, Michael McGivern says, I love Kaylee Ray. So I'm not against a squash, but what do you do with Sarray? She's ice cold.

1:31:07 And I don't think she's been given any shine since debuting. I don't want to be over the top, but is she beyond repair at this point? I don't see how they can build her up. I'll get mine out of the way now. Um, Not giving her any kind of gimmick in the beginning was kind of a problem. Not that she needs, like, a full-on big gimmick, but she was given nothing. They just said, here's a good wrestler, and that was supposed to be the reason... to like her. Um, and for, like Tom says, for select few that works, but Saray came out to the ring looking like she'd rather be.

1:31:45 Anywhere else those first couple of times.

1:31:47 And, uh, and at that point, uh, Just being a wrestler doesn't work, so.

1:31:53 I don't know what you do. This match was better than competent.

1:31:56 This was actually quite good in what little time it got, but what do you do?

1:32:03 Joe Gacy goes over Boa.

1:32:05 At 322 by disqualification in a very, very Papa Shango match. Uh, there's suddenly this weird drumming music and flashing lights.

1:32:17 Boa goes into a trance.

1:32:19 Um, so apparently Chan Cha still exists, but, uh, but only for Boa.

1:32:25 And, um, and yes, he chokes out the rare five count choke out disqualification. You see one of these every five years. You got to just, Enjoy the moment when you see him, folks.

1:32:39 So Joe Gacy goes over there, and he's just waiting to meet up with Harland again. We got a triple threat, Grayson Waller, Solo Sakoa, and L.A.

1:32:48 Knight. This is better on paper than it was in practice.

1:32:53 I'm a fan of not just throwing together triple threats because I want them to be special and for there to be a reason for a three-way issue if you've got one. Uh, but you, you kind of get away with this because putting solo over two people at once is valuable, but only if he dominates the match and he didn't, he kind.

1:33:18 Of, he'd get beat up by a double team and.

1:33:21 Then he would pick the bones on, um, the other two being distracted by each other. I get that you want to protect LA Knight, or you should want to, because damn, and maybe protect Grayson Waller too, because I think there's a relatively decent ceiling there as well.

1:33:43 But yeah, maybe solo.

1:33:47 Just dominate some if you want him to be the next big thing, and it seems like maybe they do. Electro Lopez goes over Erica Yan in 121. My biggest note here is that the announcer said, this match is scheduled for one fall, and then there was this awkward pause, and they stopped.

1:34:05 They didn't say anything more.

1:34:07 The wrestlers are like, do we go?

1:34:09 And then they finally... start wrestling. It's clear. This was supposed to just go straight to the match. And nobody told the ring announcer, they weren't supposed to say anything. It was messy.

1:34:21 And then, uh, we got the after segment with Zion Quinn, Electra Lopez is sweet on him and he on her, but it's all sexual tension.

1:34:31 And if you didn't pick.

1:34:32 That up from the extremely obvious scene, they had Beth say, uh.

1:34:37 There was a lot of sexual tension there just in case you missed it. Um, But yes, you could miss it because of bad acting. But otherwise, it was all right there in what happened. But Elektra goes over, and I'm just. I want her to be better. Hey, everyone.

1:34:59 Longtime PWTorch columnist Sean Radican here to let you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you understand the story better or see it another way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring on a special guest for the second half of the podcast.

1:35:26 Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on the news or give a standard hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but the context of why. Get ahead of the news. Get

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1:36:14 On these four matches, Nate.

1:36:21 Okay, can you hear me? I think you can hear me right now, right?

1:36:25 I sure can.

1:36:27 Okay. My headset was giving me crap and it wasn't actually unmuting. That was weird.

1:36:31 Kaylee Ray versus Sarray. I actually really enjoyed this match for what it was. I knew this was going to be, you know, a squash match in, in KLR's favor.

1:36:41 And obviously it was.

1:36:43 Sarray got a couple of things in here, but man, this, this is really, really to highlight Kaylee Ray and how.

1:36:49 How brutal she was.

1:36:51 I mean, she, I, you know, I basically said this, this is her, her comeback to NXT. She's been in NXT a couple of times before. But, you know, I think now that she's going to be here to stay, this was a brutal match in terms of like, just, just hard hitting action. There was a couple of forearms right to Sarray's face. Some great, you know, I guess, British strong style, if you will.

1:37:13 I thought it was really good.

1:37:15 Sarray I kind of agree, not giving her a gimmick right off the bat and kind of just making her like, hey, I'm here. I'm happy to be here and smiley and whatever. That didn't help her at all. Her in-ring ability, at least at first, from what I remember, wasn't all that great.

1:37:35 She didn't really wow any of us physically.

1:37:38 Especially considering the pomp and circumstance that she got coming into WWE, uh, and NXT in general. So, you know, there's that. Um, but no, I'm, I'm really, uh, I'm really looking forward to seeing what, uh, Kaylee Ray does in NXT. Uh, glad to see her here. Um, and, and, you know, kind of, uh, kind of excited about that LA night, Grace Waller and solo Sakoa.

1:38:01 Um, I, uh, I, again, this is another one. I actually really enjoyed tonight.

1:38:06 Solo Sakoa. I, uh, I kind of think of him as almost like a cross between Roman Reigns and Taz. And I said this last week, too, and it's a weird comparison, but a weird combination, I think.

1:38:20 But like, I kind of think it works like I.

1:38:22 Don't get necessarily the submission stuff out of Taz, but just kind of the way he walks around the ring and his presence.

1:38:30 And things like that.

1:38:31 Obviously, the towel on his head during his entrance and things kind of brings me there too, but he kind of has that same presence that Taz.

1:38:38 Did back in the day.

1:38:41 But then he obviously also has that same kind of Samoan presence that– you know, the Usos and, and, and Roman reigns exude, you know, in the bloodline. So I'm, I'm really, really high on him. I think he's got he moves around the ring.

1:38:57 Great.

1:38:57 He's, he's got some great moves. He also like between his body type, as well as kind of some of the way he moves around the ring. He also reminds me of his dad, especially from like the head shrinkers days before, before he, she really started packing on the pounds and, But I think he's got some big upside here. I, I agree with you that I would have probably liked to see him get a little more offense in, but I, I forgave it because of who he was in the ring with. Obviously you do want to protect LA night and Grayson Waller.

1:39:33 I'm, I'm not sure how I feel about him yet.

1:39:35 He he's it's funny because every time he comes on the screen, I think he's Austin theory. And it takes me a second to be like, Oh, that's dope. That's definitely not Austin theory. but yeah, he's okay.

1:39:47 He's good. He's, he's good. There's some good in ring in ring stuff.

1:39:50 On the mic. I, he's not for me and I'm not saying he's not bad, but like, I, I haven't, he hasn't clicked with me yet. Maybe give it a few more weeks or something like that. But like, I just haven't, um, like the stuff he did at Halloween havoc, you know, with LA night, like I didn't really, it was, it was okay for what it was, but like his performance in general, like I just didn't really, I haven't really jived with, with, um, with Grayson Waller yet. But, but overall, I thought this match was pretty good. I'm glad to see solo Sacoa, obviously when here, I think that's the right move to, to kind of, you know, give him, give him a little bit of a rub from, well, at least one already established talent, LA night and Grayson Waller,

1:40:32 I guess is kind of established over the past few weeks here or whatever, but is what it is.

1:40:39 Boa and Joe Gacy.

1:40:41 I thought this was kind of, in a way, a cool repackage or sort of repackage for Boa. I liked the face paint, the new attire, but I didn't like all of the weirdness at the end with the flashing lights and things like that. Matter of fact, I've got a friend staying with me right now, and he was kind of just watching over my shoulder and like... He's like, oh, my God, that guy has the power to make the lights flash.

1:41:06 And I was like, yeah, that's literally what I'm typing in my report, too. That's weird. Yeah. Brand new superpower to make the lights flash.

1:41:12 That's.

1:41:16 Has increased back to full, you know, like he's a video game or something. So, you know, a little weird there. If this does mean that we're going to see something more out of Tian Sha, I'm totally for it. Karen Q is still with the company. Xia Li, she obviously got moved up. But Boa is still here. They put so much time and investment into Tian Sha. I kind of want to see something happen with it. I'm not expecting it at this point, but like I really hope that there's something here. There's something here with this, this new change with Boa and, and, you know, we go from there, but every time Boa comes out, I keep saying this. So the last time he came out, the last couple of times he was wrestling, uh, he lost,

1:42:04 I think both of his matches before, uh, before this even, um, and he, uh, And I kept saying, maybe now with this loss, he's going to try and pick himself back up and kind of get back to being– you know, meaner and nastier and, and it just kind of never comes to fruition. So I'm hoping we see something like that.

1:42:25 Cause I was really, really getting invested in this whole Tien Shau thing, the whole storyline, all those cartoons and stuff that they had.

1:42:32 It was really cool. Really great.

1:42:35 And then I'll end it with Electra Lopez versus Erika Yan. I will say, I am very happy that we got like a jobber-esque type performer here with a bro relatively normal name, Erica Yan. It wasn't like Zion Quinn or, Malik blade or something like create a wrestler ask.

1:42:56 So that was kind of cool. This match was okay. It was, you know, was what.

1:43:01 It was kind of like you talking about messiness, the beginning and whatever, but Hey, you know, Hey, as we said at the beginning of the show, technical glitches happen, right. Or whatever glitches happen when it's a live show. I, I, This match really was just kind of set up what happened after the match with, with Zion Quinn and everything.

1:43:23 Yeah.

1:43:24 I really didn't think he was going to join Legado Del Fantasma anyway, but yeah, it was kind of like, you know, where is he? Is he, what's he going to do? Just kind of curious to see what he's going to say. Not surprised at all when he said no, really. But I, I do kind of think this might be setting something up for him versus Escobar, which I think you guys either talk to or hinted about.

1:43:44 Yeah.

1:43:46 It kind of makes sense. We haven't really seen, we haven't seen Escobar in a while. Um, and I think, uh, actually, well, I'll, I'll save that for our next email. Um, but, uh, We haven't really seen Escobar in a while. So it'd be kind of cool to see him come back. Cause I, and for everything we've seen out of Zion Quinn, you know, Daniel Vado, he's, he's.

1:44:07 Really impressed me in the ring.

1:44:08 So I would love to see him get in there and start tangling with, with Escobar. I think that on paper, anyway, that intrigues me. Sounds like it would be a great match, you know, and maybe potentially it could even lead into him becoming, you know, a part of legato, dolphin, Tasman, you know, growing respect for getting brainwashed getting kidnapped i guess getting kidnapped worked for mendoza and and uh wild right so maybe he's gonna get kidnapped who knows.

1:44:38 Uh yeah so um gloss over the fact that you called malik blade malik blade but uh but otherwise um yeah those were matches tom go.

1:44:48 Ahead Uh, Kaylee Ray versus Sarray I felt was Sarray's worst match yet. Almost everything she did was transparent in response to.

1:44:58 Um, McGivern McGivern, right?

1:45:00 Yes.

1:45:01 McGivern.

1:45:02 Um, I think Sarray is the only one who can help Sarray at this point. She's got to rededicate herself to something if she wants to succeed in the company. Um, I'm still not thrilled with Joe Gacy's in ring. Um, like I think, um, this is what it is, but I think I'd rather hear him to a promo segment than work a match.

1:45:21 I mean, I guess it's me.

1:45:23 So there, you know, you could say that about almost anybody, but, but in this case, the, the in ring does not back up what he's doing. As we get further and further, the Bray way, the Bray Wyatt comparisons that I did not want to make for make at first become harder and harder not to make. And Bray always, you know, delivered in the ring in, you know, I know that's going to get pushed back, but, but I, you know, I've spoken at length about.

1:45:51 My admiration for him.

1:45:52 So the issue, one of the many issues with Bray's various characters, though, or I guess particularly with the cult leader character, was always just, why is he a wrestler then? Like, why is this person wrestling?

1:46:10 That doesn't make sense.

1:46:11 And you've got Wade Barrett on commentary here saying that.

1:46:17 Message.

1:46:18 And if you win matches, you get more TV time. So perfect. Smooth that over real quick.

1:46:25 Um, I am not thrilled with them giving up on Chien Sha and I think.

1:46:30 They've given up on Chien Sha.

1:46:32 I mean, Boa walked up to an empty throne last week and then turned around with the face paint and he blew, um, he blew the steam. So it's like when, when the shield dissolved and all of a sudden Dean's thing is.

1:46:44 I wear stretchy jeans now.

1:46:46 And Seth's thing is, um, uh, talking nasally and Roman still comes out with a jacket, still comes out with a version of the shield music. You know, Boa has just inherited the Chian Shah thing.

1:46:59 Um, so he, he didn't need it.

1:47:03 I can look at it optimistically and say like, well, at least they care about him enough to want to try and want to give him something, but Boa didn't need it. He already had the kickboxing thing going for him. I really, I really like just basic Boa. Um, and yeah, of course the landing is stupid again.

1:47:20 Yeah.

1:47:20 It's kind of like going to a reunion and like, you see 20 years later, somebody wearing their letterman's jacket.

1:47:28 Like that's, that's kind of how it felt.

1:47:31 Yeah.

1:47:32 Um, you know, the, the, uh, they, they did this with the fiend in various ways. They, I mean, obviously it goes back further than that. Um, but then just very recently, one of the more egregious examples is what they did with Finn Balor, uh, against Roman reigns, which is a whole other it's Finn Balor. You did not need to protect him against Roman. He's the guy that you should just have Roman go through and Roman doesn't need the Usos to help him beat him and all the hocus pocus and whatever. And I look at what they do, and I'm like, okay, I see what you're going for. You want the supernatural character to have effects.

1:48:09 You want– it's kind of cool. Like, I mean, they've got it going on with– as annoying as I think Rick Boogs is, they've got it going on at the Shinsuke where he's got a musician with him, I guess, to an extent with new day, but the trombone thing is different.

1:48:23 Um, with, with like literally a.

1:48:26 Guitar solo playing while Shinsuke does a certain move. I think it was neat in theory that Finn Balor, uh, came back to life and his theme song started playing as he made his baby face comeback. Just like it would have, if this were a movie, a literal movie, not the, we make movies, pal kind of movie. Um, but it just doesn't work. It's so see-through. Um, it's just, it's like, it's not even trying levels of see-through to just flash the lights when he's doing whatever it was he was doing.

1:48:57 I already forgot.

1:48:58 Um, so yeah, yay boa on tv um but not yay this um the triple threat yeah uh sakoa shows promise but he is dragged down by waller and knight yeah i i like i like waller well enough so far uh knight i have almost nothing but good things to say about even though i don't i don't think protecting him.

1:49:21 Is an issue at all you could have had sakoa just.

1:49:24 Run through him here um but In everything that they've done for a month now with Waller and Knight feuding with one another, both of them just come off like total dweebs. And that happened in the interview beforehand. And that happened in the match. And it just sort of it's like I want to see. Sakoa away from the dweebery and Lopez versus Yan. I've been seeing Yan pop up on social media lately, and I've been waiting for her for a long time. So I'm glad to finally see.

1:50:01 It seems like we're on the verge of getting a chance to see what she brings. Of course, she wasn't going to show that here, just getting thrown around by Lopez. And, you know, starting off as enhancement is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. But starting off as enhancement for Electra Lopez, certainly not the most prestigious factoid one can hope for.

1:50:22 But looking forward to seeing more from Yan. Lopez.

1:50:26 I guess she's not as bad when she's not in there with B-Fab. I don't know. That match was just legendarily horrible. And what she had done previously wasn't great either, but.

1:50:40 You know, anyway, we'll see.

1:50:42 Daniel Vito Medicine Woman did the wink multiple times as he was backing up the ramp. It was almost like he wasn't sure if the camera caught it. But apart from that, successfully came off as extremely suave.

1:50:53 I still like seeing Zion Quinn on my screen.

1:51:00 All right, so those were matches.

1:51:02 The other things that happened that were not matches. MSK, they were walking, and they got to where they were going and realized that they were 420 miles away from their destination.

1:51:16 420!

1:51:16 Do you get it? Stoner comedy doesn't have to be funny.

1:51:21 It literally just has to reference weed.

1:51:25 And stoners think it's amazing. Andre Chase University.

1:51:30 He's still swearing at people, but he's swearing in ways that don't have to be bleeped, which for me.

1:51:37 Is less funny. But I liked that one of the.

1:51:43 Kids in his class was kissing his ass to see this other side of Chase.

1:51:49 And will we see that kid again?

1:51:52 Become part of Chase University on a bigger scale, I don't know. And we had Kyle O'Reilly and Von Wagner. O'Reilly saying, do I want to be a singles wrestler or be in this team? We got something special, me and Von Wagner. And it just blows my mind that Kyle had to be going to bed a few months ago thinking I could be the next O'Reilly. champion in NXT and now he has to stay to say stuff like do I want to be a singles wrestler or do I want a team with.

1:52:26 Von Wagner.

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1:53:08 including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app.

1:53:22 We also have two more emails. This one's from Jenny Edelston. Do you think Santos Escobar is headed for the main roster?

1:53:28 Yes.

1:53:30 And this one's from Kevin Katani. Salutations, gents. I hope this email finds you well. And welcome back, Kelly and Tom. I thought tonight was a solid episode. I love the continuing development of Odyssey Jones, the hijinks and subsequent bro love of The Way, and.

1:53:44 The reemergence of Kaylee Ray.

1:53:46 While I know it will take more to change Nate's mind, I saw a lot of positive.

1:53:50 Things going on in the episode tonight. I continue to be encouraged.

1:53:54 By the champions and the primary challengers to those champions, and I think the storytelling is starting to grow some legs. That said, which of the active championship storylines are you most excited.

1:54:04 About for the next week?

1:54:05 Thanks, as always.

1:54:06 Go VIP and listen to 8YB. Office hours are now over. The Professor. P.S.

1:54:12 Woo!

1:54:12 War Games is back. Kevin P.

1:54:13 Catani.

1:54:14 P.H.D.

1:54:18 Yeah, the storytelling's growing some legs at times.

1:54:23 It's interesting.

1:54:23 It's different.

1:54:24 It's always interesting whether I love or hate it, but it's different. Championship storylines, most excited for the next week.

1:54:38 I mean, a week's such a short amount of time, so I would say....

1:54:44 North American by a long shot. And second place would be a tie for not appearing on the radar.

1:54:56 Tom.

1:54:58 Yeah, it's actually kind of a tough question, just looking one week ahead. I guess I will be curious to see if Mandy and Kaylee cross paths again. Maybe being generous there as far as looking forward to, but once I'm in the process of sitting there and watching the show, that will be something I'll notice. Santos Escobar headed for the main roster. I mean, seems like a can't-miss. Change his name, please.

1:55:25 Right?

1:55:25 I mean.

1:55:26 Yes.

1:55:27 I don't feel like you would. I don't know.

1:55:29 I mean, maybe it's been long enough that I forget all the potential that we saw in Angel Garza. Now he's just in an undercard tag team and has been like absolute nowhere's bill.

1:55:43 But.

1:55:44 Um, and of course, you know, I know how that sounds bringing up that name, but I'm trying to look at it the way Vince McMahon looks at it. Is he going to look at Santos Escobar and go like, I've already got Ray Mysterio over here. I've already got Angel Garza over here. I don't even know what to do with Umberto Carrillo because that's how he lumps people together.

1:56:01 But I mean, I just, I mean, you can't miss this guy. And, and, you know, here I am saying that. And there are any number of people, I mean, apparently people thought that about Trey Baxter, the way Twitter was going on about how upset they were about these cuts.

1:56:14 Like WWE isn't a wrestling company anymore.

1:56:16 Oh, you're really, you're really that sad about that list of names.

1:56:20 Okay.

1:56:21 Um, so, you know, grain of salt or whatever, but Escobar is, uh, it's fantastic.

1:56:27 Um, Nothing on MSK.

1:56:30 It's not worth saying anything about that MSK segment. Didn't really have anything on Andre Chase either. I didn't notice the student. You pointed out that the student looked like they might get a recurring role.

1:56:41 Was it?

1:56:42 I'm not sure.

1:56:43 They were just sitting in the front and they like they started with the one that annoyed him. And then another one was just like, well, well, I just think. that Andre was put into a bad position, blah, blah, blah.

1:56:58 And it looked from the back like this is a PC wrestler.

1:57:04 So maybe this is just early, because you know how, if you look back on episodes, you see somebody in a tiny, tiny role that, yeah, I mean, you know how that is. But I felt like, They could grow something with this kiss-ass student, and maybe we finally see his face. But until they show his face, I'll assume it probably was just a one-time thing, and they don't want to overexpose him before they start using him on TV.

1:57:37 White guy?

1:57:38 Yeah, white guy, blonde hair, and he wore.

1:57:41 Yeah, I was going to guess, is it long blonde hair?

1:57:44 Long blonde hair and a beanie.

1:57:46 Yeah.

1:57:46 OK, I know exactly who that is. He was in the poker segment last week, too. Don't look at his social media unless you want to be horrified by his views. But, you know, I maybe that's an overstatement when you've got people like Jackson Ryker out there. But it is just like, OK, maybe you should just stay off social media. Just post your muscle pictures.

1:58:07 But, uh, okay. What, what do I have next?

1:58:11 Um, Indy and Persia with D'Angelo interrupting, um, which, you know, by this point I'm already writing the parenthetical interrupts and just waiting to see what name to type because every single one got interrupted. Like you said, um, this was just weird because I thought that D'Angelo was flirting with Indy saying, well, I'm going to beat up your husband so bad next week because apparently they have a match.

1:58:32 I guess that, yeah, we saw a graphic for that.

1:58:34 Um, you know, that, that, you know, he's going to try to move in on the territory as it were.

1:58:40 Yeah.

1:58:40 And he said like, you'll be available or something like that. And then you'll be free or yeah, it was weird.

1:58:47 So I can't quite see what he's handing and he's like, Oh, this fell off the docks. And I'm like, all right, you're in central Florida. Or I mean, like, were you over at St. Pete or like where, what, what are we talking here, Tony? Uh, so he hands her something and I'm like, did he, did he crumple? pull up a nice jacket and she's going to be impressed with it. Like, what is this thing? And I didn't realize until the closeup that it was a really gross looking dead fish.

1:59:09 So I guess he sort of like, didn't do a good job with, uh, delivering the sleep with the fish, the fishes message.

1:59:18 And it was just bizarre.

1:59:19 That he was flirting with her and then saying, I'm going to murder your boyfriend next week. So, uh, an odd tight rope walk type tight rope walk that they're still doing with, uh, exactly what they are implying. D'Angelo's character does in his free time.

1:59:34 Um, it's a straight reference to Luca Brasi in the Godfather, but I think.

1:59:41 They think zebra, right?

1:59:43 Oh God.

1:59:43 Yes.

1:59:45 But I think they think that movie was more recent than it was.

1:59:48 I don't know. It's like 48 years old or whatever. And like, so when he, this.

1:59:56 Character who is literally just ripped from the movie, he hands the newspaper.

2:00:04 I'm like, I already know what this is. It's just, it's so broad. I love this actor. I hate this act. Tom, go ahead.

2:00:15 Yeah, I mean next week he's going to say– he's going to make someone an offer they can't refuse, and when they say, well, what is it? He's going to be like, oh, I don't have anything. That's just like a thing that I was– that's just a thing that I say. I didn't really think about what it was supposed to mean.

2:00:33 Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll get gunned down in a toll booth.

2:00:39 What have they done to my boy? Okay. Kyle O'Reilly, that's where I'm at.

2:00:48 I am glad that they acknowledged that foot on the ropes because how stupid did Kyle look last week looking like, oh, man, I have trust issues again after Wagner got pinned when he clearly had his foot on the rope. So I'm glad that they don't seem to immediately be leaping to that detrust, that distrust bit.

2:01:09 And you know what?

2:01:10 I'm just going to throw it in there because Trick Williams. Why do I keep doing that?

2:01:13 I keep.

2:01:14 Wait, is it Trick Williams? Oh, I got it right. Then I second-guessed myself.

2:01:19 Every time I write that, I feel like I'm getting the last name wrong for some reason.

2:01:22 Well, anyway, I'll get it eventually.

2:01:25 You know, basically rolls into the talk about the main event, but I thought Trick was really, really good in his little bit interrupting Pete Dunn's interview. He's just awesome when he's talking, so good for him.

2:01:40 Nate?

2:01:41 All right, there's only a couple segments I really have anything to talk about, and there's really not even much that you guys haven't said.

2:01:49 So I guess MSK, I'll start with them. This segment, and.

2:01:55 Even the ones last week, too, just, they're not hitting with me, and usually, like, the weird stoner humor, like, I can at least chuckle at, but this is just, like, Just too blatant.

2:02:07 It's too lowbrow, even for me. And that's saying something. Yeah, it doesn't really work.

2:02:17 I'm not really sure how they're trying to portray these characters.

2:02:22 I mean, I get it. They're stoners, whatever, but... I don't know.

2:02:25 I just don't feel like it's doing anything positive for them. Um, yeah, I'm not saying that you can't have a stoner that's in a great, uh, position or whatever.

2:02:34 I mean, Hey, look, you had RBD, right? Although I guess that I was just, I was just going to say, who are they going to see?

2:02:41 And is it going to be as obvious as, you know, WWE just paid RBD to film a little thing with Jeremy Borash real quick, right?

2:02:48 Oh, Hey, you know what?

2:02:49 And if it led to something with RBD, like it did with Ted DiBiase, I'd be okay with that.

2:02:54 Um, I don't know.

2:02:56 I like RVD. That's just me. Um, terrible.

2:02:59 Go on.

2:03:01 You're terrible.

2:03:02 I'm absolutely not. Nobody ever in the history of, Oh my God. His offense, man. Go ahead.

2:03:11 Anyway.

2:03:12 Um, no, he's not certainly, certainly not one of my favorites, but, uh, I do like RVD.

2:03:17 Um, I don't remember what the hell is.

2:03:19 Oh yeah.

2:03:19 So MSK, uh, yeah, the, the segments is not really hidden with me, but, uh, you know, whatever is what it is. Andre chase these segments though, these.

2:03:29 Are starting to hit me. He would be much, much more than they did at first. You know, first one, it was just like Andre chase showing up. It did somebody say chase, like, that was cool. That was kind of funny, but he's still kind of sort of doing that. But with the addition of like just sold breaking out and like flipping out at least like once per segment, he's on TV.

2:03:50 I'm, I'm interested by this. It's a little intriguing. I don't know where it's going to go. I kind of feel like this has a massive ceiling on it. but you know, it's, it's interesting. It's weird. And then kind of, uh, kind of intrigued by it.

2:04:06 The only other thing I really wanted to touch on was Vaughn Wagner and KOR, um, you Kyle O'Reilly, like Kelly, I think it was you that said this a bit ago, like, you know, a few months ago, he was lying in bed thinking, Hey, I'll probably be the next NXT champ. And now like he's, he's doing stuff like this and, you know, fine. He's, he's kind of taking somebody that's, you know, newer and, and, and giving them a bit of a rub and, and whatever.

2:04:30 Um, But I don't know.

2:04:33 I feel like he could be doing something a bit more– just a bit better, a bit more like– just substantial than, than a tag team here. The segment where he was like, yeah, should I be a singles competitor or be a tag team competitor? It just seemed so like, who the hell talks like that? Like, it's just really strange.

2:04:55 I get it. You've got to kind of convey what you're thinking in TV. So, you know, cause people aren't mind readers.

2:05:01 Right.

2:05:01 But just the way it came across was just really bizarre. Weird. I didn't, I didn't like it.

2:05:06 Bad acting.

2:05:07 Yeah.

2:05:09 I'd, I'd put it more on the writer.

2:05:11 Like writing exposition like that, there's always– I know wrestling is.

2:05:16 A different beast and we're not aiming super high.

2:05:20 But still, aim a little higher.

2:05:22 If a character has to write his thoughts, then you've missed the story somehow.

2:05:27 Absolutely, absolutely.

2:05:29 But yeah, that's really all I got to say on these other segments. Everything else you guys kind of already touched on. It's just kind of me flapping my gums.

2:05:40 I'm Kelly Wells, and the center of the wrestling universe this coming weekend will be Minneapolis, which I had forgotten because I don't pay attention to where things are.

2:05:55 But Wade Keller.

2:05:57 Just told me today, hey, man, you're going to Rampage and Full Gear with me. So I'm going to those shows on Friday and Saturday.

2:06:08 Free media tickets.

2:06:09 Love it.

2:06:11 And so there you go. I will be doing that. Don't know if I'll be covering those, but I will be. at those shows.

2:06:17 So that's going to be, I should probably find out what's going on in a W before, uh, before those shows happen, but you can find me all over social media at spooky milk or spooky milk dot games.

2:06:31 Nate, who are you.

2:06:33 At Nate Lindbergh on Twitter?

2:06:35 I do the NXT hits and misses, which already up on the website for you guys to check out if you would like to do so.

2:06:41 Uh, and you can find me on Twitter at Nate Lindbergh.

2:06:45 Tom, At Tom Staub, having a very difficult time withholding jabs at the experience that you are just going to have to endure in the coming days. I'm having a hard time.

2:07:03 Hope you make it. Hope you make it out. At least you don't have to give that company any money.

2:07:09 After I've been a jackass about things like that and all of that, you can give me money by going to my Patreon. No, it's a horrible opportunity for a plug. I will just say that maybe you mentioned it when my computer was acting up, but we, Kelly and I, appeared on Grit and Glitter, which does still exist in case you weren't aware.

2:07:32 Uh, as its own entity. Now, uh, we appeared on a podcast.

2:07:36 Game show version of the newlyweds game and we had a lot of fun. Um, unfortunately I didn't realize what my computer was doing to me at the time.

2:07:44 And, uh, and my.

2:07:46 Audio is atrocious on it, but I think, you know, it's still, it's still fun. So, uh, check out grit and glitter to see how well Kelly and I did against the, other teams, one of Grit and Glitter's own and then one from Bell to Bell's on Grit and Glitter.

2:08:04 Yeah, absolutely see that. It was us and then the Grit and Glitter team, known each other. Almost as long as Tom.

2:08:12 And I have. And, you know, tight-knit community there.

2:08:16 And then the other team was an actually engaged pair.

2:08:21 A guy and a girl who are engaged.

2:08:26 So you wouldn't think that Tom and I were by far the.

2:08:31 Ones who got along best, the only ones who got along.

2:08:34 Yeah. But it seemed like other teams have issues to work through. But with that, that was a great time on Grit and Glitter, and I hope we get to do it again, and we probably will.

2:08:53 I'm not spoiling anything, am I? I'm Kelly Wells, and we'll see you about a week from now.

2:09:01 Cheers.

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2:10:10 Let your voice, let your opinions be heard on our shows via email, wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com for the flagship and wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com for our post shows. It's next-level coverage that you come to expect from the PW Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media experience that I know many of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at a time, and settle in for high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well,

2:10:52 now you can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.

2:10:58 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

2:11:11 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling life every week, so why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch Daily Casts? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.

2:11:47 You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a bit and see if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows like the Wade Keller Post Shows, the Wade Keller Podcast Flagship, our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch DataCast lineup. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go

2:12:22 to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. If you're listening to us on the Apple Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us to others.

2:12:47 Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And of course, thank you so much for listening. A PWTorch VIP membership doesn't just give you ad-free access to these shows and a ton of other VIP-exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access to our unmatched, vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week-to-week coverage through our Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletters dating back to the late 1980s, along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from the 1990s, including some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in the 90s. And also our podcast library dating

2:13:23 back to the year 2003. There's no larger, longer-spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that that comes with a PWTorch VIP membership. Now approaching 20 years of podcasting. Go VIP and dive into our post-pay-per-view roundtables, our coverage of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top-name long-form interviews, and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. pwtorch.com slash govip. We have a streamlined sign-up form, and you can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card in one or two minutes. From right now, you can be a VIP member and diving into our library, pwtorch.com slash govip.