5 YRS AGO SMACKDOWN POST-SHOW: Keller & LeClair talk New Day-Bloodline, McIntyre’s positioning, Happy Corbin & Madcap Moss, Pat McAfee, more

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1:35 Now, PW Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.

1:44 Today on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show, we jump back five years to the SmackDown Post Show, where Brandon LeClaire from PW Torch joined me to analyze that tonight's show, which included... Discussing the possibility of a New Day versus Bloodline match at Survivor Series instead of the usual champion versus champion one-on-one match. We talked about the new look post-draft SmackDown and in what ways it was better and what ways it was weaker than before. Covered other topics including Drew McIntyre, Pat McAfee, Shotzi, Happy Corbin and Madcap Moss, Naomi and Sonya Deville, and more. This originally live streamed on November 5th, 2021. It's today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, five years ago, SmackDown Flashback for Thursday,

2:20 November 5th, 2026. All right, Brandon, I am holding out some hope that maybe we're not going to see Roman Reigns against Big E at Survivor Series. And we're going to see all three members of New Day against all three members of the Bloodline and avoiding that awkward champion versus champion situation. Am I wrong to hope for that?

2:44 Oh, it's WWE, so probably. But I definitely feel similarly. As that final segment unfolded, I kind of sat there thinking, okay, could they possibly put themselves in a scenario where we could have a traditional Survivor Series match with these two teams? And the one hang-up that I kept coming back to is, is there anyone that they can team with the bloodline?

3:13 And I guess you can do just a standard six-man tag, but given that it is Survivor Series, and Survivor Series is known for those five-on-five tag elimination matches, that seems to make the most sense. I think that's what I would vote for, just for the tradition of it, and I think those matches can be a lot of fun and certainly would be a lot of fun with these two groups. I just don't know how you fill in the two sides.

3:38 What if it's just a six-man tag and we don't worry about Five on five.

3:45 Yeah, I mean, I'm fine with that. I think I think, again, because it's Survivor Series, I like the idea of doing a five on five or, you know, you could go the route of just having it be a six man tag elimination match and then it still falls under that Survivor Series category. sort of tradition without adding extra people in the mix which I think that I think if you gave me a gave me a vote I'd probably pick six-man tag elimination.

4:14 And and I am totally fine and we've seen them vary this over the years of Survivor Series having a brand versus brand elimination tag match maybe one with women one with men and then don't worry about tradition otherwise if it gets in the way and I'm not against the elimination match other well I mean, I can see WWE not wanting a bunch of people on one team to do jobs. You know, they might want to protect, you know, multiple wrestlers in that match from being, quote, eliminated.

4:39 I mean, they have their tricks to do that. Oh, there's a count out. Oh, there's a DQ. Oh, it was, you know, there was a distraction. How could I forget that? But nevertheless, I would be totally, I mean, they can headline Survivor Series with those three against those three in a standard match the way that they're building it up.

4:54 And I'm not, I mean, I think this is a cool kind of cross-brand route thing to get to the brand versus brand match at Survivor Series. I just look at Big E's momentum on Raw right now, or what I... It's such a WB word. Momentum, so I'm self-conscious saying it. I think Big E's off to a good start. And I think they've done a really good job featuring him and making him feel like a big deal. And that he isn't just a guy holding the world title on a show, but the real champion with the real belt that matters right now is on that other show. And that's baked in right now for anybody who holds a title that Roman isn't holding. And frankly, any title that's not on Fox Network instead of USA. And it would

5:40 take work to overcome that. But I just don't think you want to emphasize it and make it even more obvious by having Reigns beat Big E. But frankly, I would vote for Reigns beating Big E clean before I'd vote for Big E beating Reigns clean because I think Reigns has 400-some days, 430-some days of this championship reign, and him losing should be a big deal, not something you're forced into because it's Survivor Series and you just sort of feel like you have to do the champ versus champ match. So even though they've said, you know, it is going to happen or kind of hinted at it, I'm fine with them breaking tradition and just putting on what makes the most sense otherwise.

6:14 Yeah, I think that the one thing that I am really enjoying about this is that despite it being brand versus brand, it's not a feud built around Raw versus SmackDown. It just so happens that New Day is feuding with the Usos, and now Roman Reigns has gotten involved, and it only makes sense for Big E to hop in there and come to the aid of his friends. And it serves WWE's purpose of having WWE champion versus universal champion.

6:45 So I like the way that they're setting this up. I am someone who strongly dislikes the brand versus brand format of survivor series, not only because it feels shoehorned and manufactured and fake, but also because it occurs every year. So close to when they now do the draft that it feels especially pointless because it's, Most of the guys that are fighting have just recently switched brands. So how could they possibly have developed that much allegiance to that brand and have that much hatred and vitriol toward the brand that they were just on three weeks ago?

7:21 And the brand versus brand, you know, Survivor Series format is it feels like I mean, it's a carryover from when they were really doing is is I won't say ineptly, but sort of halfheartedly or, you know, fleeting in a fleeting way. oh, we're really against each other. There's rival GMs. It's Stephanie versus Shane, or it's this GM versus that GM.

7:40 And the announcers are even bad-mouthing each other. And they're talking about ratings. And, you know, that lasted, you know, a few weeks, but yet we're still stuck with this format born out of that, especially now with a draft that comes so close to Survivor Series. So yeah, it's just, it's kind of, you know, let's just reevaluate it. I mean, it's not even the WWE Network era. It's the Peacock era.

8:00 They're like, they just don't, I mean, I want to, whisper this so NBCUniversal executives don't hear, but they don't care as much as they used to about some of these shows. They want to sell. They're running stadium shows now for more stadium shows next year because they make more money if they sell more tickets. But they don't make more money from Peacock if Survivor Series is better or worse. Under a WWE network, they made more money if Survivor Series was better because more people would subscribe to the network, fewer would cancel. They'd have a better quarterly statement. Now the way to show improvement in revenue, because everything else is baked in, locked in, under contract.

8:38 I mean, yes, you want to have good numbers to renegotiate the next deal. That's not exactly how WB operates. That's not even how human incentives work. We often don't think long-term. We think more short-term. So if they're running stadium shows so they can make more money, Survivor Series, there's not an incentive to give away what should be a more prestigious, valued, rare matchup, which is the champ from Raw against the champ from SmackDown. Don't put that on the calendar as something locked in where then you have to do a finish. I don't think Drew ever recovered from being defined down last year as a guy who lost to Roman. And, you know, I don't, I mean, it's a tough call. I mean, if Drew beat Roman,

9:21 is Roman weaker? Just don't do the matches. It's not that big of a deal when nobody expects a finish or everyone's mad about the finish.

9:30 Yeah, and they got away from it the year prior. The year prior, they had done two title matches rather than having the WWE versus the Universal Champion. So I was surprised to see them go back to it last year, especially when they had two strong champions. And that seemed like a WrestleMania match, and they just gave it away.

9:47 And yeah, I think that It definitely hurt Drew McIntyre. I and I agree. I don't think that he's recovered. It's interesting, though, that you bring up Peacock and that WWE no longer has to worry about month to month how many people are watching the pay-per-views, and that's a good thing given those numbers and that money, the financials that came out about Peacock.

10:11 Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial-free. A nice streamlined listening experience. PWTorch.com. slash GoVIP for full details on a commercial-free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups of shows by theme and also unlock nearly four decades of archives and access our ad-free website with VIP-exclusive content, pwtorch.com slash GoVIP. Your time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash GoVIP. Okay, let's pause here and introduce ourselves and give out the phone numbers and move on with our conversation about a lot of happenings on SmackDown. Some more

11:00 newsworthy than others. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Friday, November 5th, 2021. I'm Wade Keller, the host of the program, the editor-publisher-founder of the Pro Wrestling Torch Weekly Newsletter and the website peakwtorch.com. and also the host of this, the Wade Keller Post Show and the Wade Keller Podcast. Yesterday we ran a good portion of my conversation from this week with John Arezzi, who was on the Dark Side of the Ring documentary season finale last week covering the WWE, or then WWF, 1994 Vince McMahon steroid trial. And John and I were both on that documentary on Vice, and we both were in the courtroom for the trial, and we just had a conversation, sharing memories and adding memories additional context and details to

11:48 what was in the documentary and reviewing some of the choices they made in that documentary. So I encourage you to seek out the documentary. If you didn't see it the first time, look for it online or it might be on your DVR or on demand, and then check out that conversation with John. I also did an hour-long watch-along solo for VIP members on the Wade Keller Hotline last weekend and just pushed play on it and talked about the documentary and the choices they made and who was featured and adding even more stories to it. So lots of trial coverage this week, this past week for VIP members, and you get a good sample of it on yesterday's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. That now is free as of last night. The other voice you hear

12:31 is Brandon LeClaire. He is a PWTorch.com contributor. He formerly covered SmackDown on a weekly basis, you know, writes all perspective reports on WWE pay-per-views and fills in sometimes when needed on TV reports. Brandon, thanks for accepting being bumped last week after we double booked. It worked better. You were able to be more flexible. So I really appreciate that.

12:55 And that means I get to host with you instead of Zach. So good to hear your voice. Good to have you on.

12:59 Yeah, definitely. Glad to be here. A little bit of confusion last week. Zach wasn't filled in. So by the time he saw my tweet mentioning that I would be joining this week instead of next week, He was like, wait, so you're you're out for tonight. And I was like, oh, no. So, yeah, we got it. We got it cleared up. Wade, I also want to mention a funny, funny tidbit here for your appearance on Dark Side of the Ring last week.

13:30 I I put the show on and my girlfriend was was getting ready to go to sleep. And she kind of like she she heard the start of the episode and she rolled over and she was like, is that Wade? And she, not a wrestling fan, never watched wrestling willingly in her life, but knows your voice from hearing you through my headphones. And for me, it's like, when I've done these shows with you, and then also from when I've just listened to stuff from The Torch. So she just casually rolled over and was like, is that Wade?

14:02 I was like, yeah, good catch. Actually, it is.

14:05 I was at a karate class with my son. It was right before COVID, so two years ago. in the fall of 19. And I'm just talking with my family. And then this guy comes up to me after karate class. He goes, I don't want to bother you, but are you Wade Keller? And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, yeah, I just, I'm sitting over there and I hear your voice.

14:24 And I was like, oh my God, I think that's the wrestling guy. Just another, another dad there. So the voice, I guess the voice is distinct.

14:32 So weird, weirdly enough, she recognized it right away. And it was odd for me. I thought you sounded different. And then like, So after like 10 or 15 minutes or so, it kind of like settled and clicked, and I was like, oh, yeah, okay, that's the voice. But before, it was like, oh, this is different. It's like hearing your own voice. You never quite recognize it. Voices are weird.

14:55 Yes.

14:56 Fun stories. All right. Oh, by the way, I will mention here at the top of the show, I interviewed Tony Khan, AEW president, Ted Booker, for about an hour earlier this afternoon and talked about Cody getting booed and asked, you know, kind of multiple follow-up questions on that and how his relationship with the executive vice presidents, Matt and Nick Jackson and Kenny Omega and Cody has evolved over the past couple of years. We talked about the Jon Moxley situation, the substitution of Miro, CM Punk's ratings, and what Tony's take is on that and more. Really good interview.

15:32 We put up part one for VIP members on my new daily focus on AEW podcast that I started on Monday, November 1st. And, intend to do just about every day this month as a special series. And then we'll see where we go from there with it. And so part one is up already. The first half hour and the second half hour goes up tomorrow. If you're not a VIP member and that interests you, go VIP. pwtorch.com slash go VIP. It is Apple podcast compatible. In fact, when you sign up, you'll get a link. You just click on it and it'll just open up on your phone and you're subscribed. You don't have to cut and paste URLs or go to advanced settings or enter passwords, but it only works as long as you're a current member.

16:13 It's a cool setup that we started this year. If you're not on iPhone or don't use a native app, we work on more podcast apps than ever, including Android, which is a phone I have, Samsung Galaxy. And when you sign up and get VIP, you get 30-plus years of archives, and you can read. Speaking of the trial, my original coverage of being at the trial for three weeks, we put out a 24-page double issue after two weeks of the trial and then another issue dedicated almost entirely to the trial after the verdict was read. That is available in the archives, and it's fascinating and worth reading as either a warm-up or a supplement to the documentary.

16:48 It was a really amazing time and a big story to cover. So lots of reasons to go VIP. Plus, this show has the ads and plugs removed for the VIP members on our podcast feed. So check out details, pwtorch.com slash go VIP. Let's give out the phone numbers for today's show here and the email. Our phone number, if you want to call and talk about SmackDown, is 347-215-8558.

17:10 That's 347-215-8558. And when you call, push 1 on your keypad to flag you on our switchboard. Also, you can email the show, WadeKellerPodcast at PWTorch.com. That is WadeKellerPodcast at PWTorch.com. We are hoping to hear from Jordan in Evansville. who attended tonight as our on-site correspondent. I didn't get confirmation today from him, but he did indicate he was going to be calling in. So we'll look for him as the show progresses. But in the meantime, Brandon, we got more to talk about on this show. Let's go ahead and go to our first call of the show here.

17:57 And I believe this is Sean from Murfreesboro. Sean, welcome to the show.

18:01 Wade, it's only been two weeks, but, man, it seems like forever.

18:04 I don't know.

18:04 I was thinking that today. Number one, you're throwing me off. When you put me on first, you always throw me off.

18:09 Second of all, it feels like it's been forever, but it really hasn't.

18:12 Yeah. It's only been two weeks, but, man, I missed you.

18:16 Where have you been?

18:17 Brandon, good to talk to you guys. How are you doing?

18:20 Where have you been?

18:22 I've been.

18:22 Oh, God. I've been around, well... I mean, it's always good to talk to Zach, you know, and Nick Barbati. I mean, what a guy.

18:31 But come on.

18:31 You're the– Wade, you're still the man. You're still the guy I always want to talk to. I mean, you're just that good. I mean, no, but I was going to say real quick, I am looking forward to hearing– I haven't heard the first interview with Tony Condit, so I'm looking forward to hearing that first part tonight before I go to bed and then obviously catching part two tomorrow.

18:50 And go VIP, guys. You're stupid if you don't. You're missing out, man. Like, wrestling– up your ear. There's just so much stuff to listen to. It's just, you know, again, it's fantastic. Brandon, how are you, man? Good, good.

19:01 How are you?

19:02 I'm actually, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm recovering. I'm on, well, I'm on about hour five since getting my booster shot today. So, uh, no, uh, no negative effects to report thus far. A little, little bit of soreness in the arm, but feeling a little tired. Otherwise good.

19:18 Cool.

19:18 Cool.

19:18 Very cool. Um, wait and i will figure out i'm sorry for your tough loss sunday i know it's been five days and i didn't bring it up but i apologize it's just you know.

19:29 Oh wade you and i are at war this weekend that's right.

19:34 I i i as of sunday stop looking ahead in the calendar what what's coming up what's happening this weekend.

19:39 Your your vikings play my ravens.

19:42 Yeah i can't can't wait for another heartbreaking well i and i don't know i i i I rejuvenate my, my optimism after a few days. So I'm, I'm ready to start thinking about him again. That was tough though. That was tough.

19:57 Okay. We'll go back to SmackDown. I, SmackDown was very, very ho-hum tonight. I, I didn't really care for it in a lot of ways. It was just kind of, paint my numbers which I guess is not a bad thing but it just it didn't tickle my fancy I guess I'll say that the I guess I agree with what you said Wade I really don't want Roman and Biggie I really hope they don't do that either I just kind of oh Survivor Series just kind of doesn't excite me right now either but I wanted to talk I really wanted to switch gears a little bit and go back to the Shotzi promo yeah she got tonight which I'm glad they did that I thought it was good from she showed a lot of fire a lot of you know mean fire and i like that part

20:40 of it i didn't like the material her saying i lost support of wb universe like they don't really know you well enough to lose support for you i didn't like that what do you think about her promo just the material and the delivery because i like the delivery didn't really care for the material what'd you guys think about.

20:55 That yeah i'm i my first thought was i like her better as a heel than a baby face as an act i thought as a baby face she was you know just obnoxious and not likable and kind of just, I don't know. Um, and the tank thing just never did anything for me. I mean like, woohoo, I'm in a child sized tank shooting nerf darts at people and I'm hooping and hollering and acting ridiculous. I didn't like that.

21:16 So this is an improvement. It would be tough not to improve on that. I thought she carried herself as a snotty heel. Well, I think this, like you say, Sean, the delivery was good. Um, I can live with, her not having had support from the WWE Universe on SmackDown because she's so new. I can live with that because, you know, it's sort of something he'll say. Oh, I lost the, you know, it's the WWE speak, but I lost support of the fans. So, you know, screw them.

21:44 And sometimes heels can be hasty in coming to that conclusion or use a small sample size to overreact. And you can give them a little more leeway in that respect. But, you know, it is absolutely a stretch. But mostly I came away from that liking it. You know, I'm going to run... over Sasha Banks and anyone else that gets in my way and I don't need a tank to do it. I would normally groan at sort of the pun or the play on words there, but I'm like, if that means the tank is gone, then I'm happy. Brandon, your thoughts on that?

22:16 Yeah, that was the first thing I was going to mention was that I don't really care for the super overly scripted close to the promo. I was just one of those things that someone would never say naturally in conversation unless they wrote it down beforehand. And if you're doing that, then, you know, are you really a badass heel or just someone who writes down things they want to say to mock someone else? Like it, it's, it, it came off rather poorly, but I too was totally fine with it because it seems like it means the end of the tank. And I also think that the tank came off poorly. It was a little ridiculous. It was kind of, a uh it was kind of dragging the whole gimmick down i i don't think that we

23:01 are to take shotzi all that seriously when she's riding to the ring on a tank so if if this means the end of that chapter of her character i am happy and and uh more than willing to excuse an overly scripted line at the end of the promo uh i thought that the the promo was fine her delivery was okay i think that She probably has some room to grow in that, in that role. She doesn't seem overly comfortable on, on the microphone quite yet. Um, but that's okay. I think she was serviceable enough to come off, uh, like, like a strong heel tonight. And I'm interested to see what kind of direction they go with her. They definitely need depth on the women's side on, on both SmackDown and raw. So if they can get

23:44 her into sort of a cemented position where she's kind of a weekend week out character, uh, that is solidified within that division, that's a huge positive.

23:57 What have you thought, Brandon, of her work in the ring over time? I mean, and just the idea of giving her this promotion and this push and a match with Sasha. I mean, in a general sense, I am generically happy with elevating new women in WWE for sure. They just need more depth. When you look at the depth chart right now, uh, post draft, it's like, where are they going to get, you know, where's this going to come from? Um, where are you on, on Shotzi getting, uh, getting this push from what you've seen of her?

24:28 I thought, I thought she was fine in NXT. I never, I never was overly impressed. I was also nothing she ever did stood out negatively. I mean, I thought, you know, her, her tag stuff, uh, her tag stuff there with, with Ember moon was fine. Um, And moving over to SmackDown, I don't think the sample size is large enough to really say one way or another. I mean, the team with Tegan Nox was so short-lived. They were mostly put in enhancement roles, more or less. I mean, they hardly even appeared. And when they did, it seemed like they were losing in relatively short order. So the first time that I was impressed by what she did in the ring was last week against Charlotte Flair. And I don't know how much of that was Shotzi and how much

25:15 of it was Charlotte carrying the match. But I was impressed overall by what the two of them were able to do together. So I'm looking forward to seeing more of it.

25:28 Hey, everyone.

25:29 Greg Parks here. You've probably heard me hosting Wrestling Night in America after pay-per-views and also co-hosting the Tuesday flagship with Wade Keller. I also host a VIP exclusive podcast every week called Greg Parks Out Loud. In this podcast, I delve into a single topic for around 20 minutes, perfect length for one of your daily commutes or while walking the dog. A couple of my recent episodes included a look at TNA as they move to AMC and WWE and AEW injuries for the year 2025. You can listen to VIP podcasts with a VIP membership on many platforms, including on Patreon, Spotify, the Apple Podcasts native app on iPhone and CarPlay, just about every popular iOS and Android podcast app out there, and even stream right from the

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26:35 Sean, thank you for any follow-up.

26:37 Going back to what you said, as far as what I thought, I haven't been a fan of Shotzi. She's gotten better in the ring, but I guess I didn't care for the match as much as maybe you did, Brandon. I thought it was fine, but it seemed to me like Charlotte was caring a little more of it and trying to make her look good, which was cool. I think Shotzi's got a lot more work to do, but I think this... Again, I think I said last week a little, as far as I think this match will help, this feud will help Shotzi in the ring. Because Sasha, you can't go wrong having her as an opponent to work with. I mean, she's going to make you usually look like a million bucks. And so I think that's going to help Shotzi. But I think this was a

27:15 good start. You know, I think she'll get better on promos as she goes along. So I'm kind of curious to see where they go with her and what she can do. Because I'm just worried, you know, I don't see how Shotzi will beat Sasha unless they do. So I don't know how she, she'd have to look really good for it to help her moving along. And so we'll see where that goes. But the next thing I was going to kind of going into the more of the women was guys, where are they going with Naomi and Shayna? I just named Naomi and Sonia. I just, it's kind of getting old now. Like I know they just keep putting heat on Naomi and it's like the match was not good. The, the, finish was, you know, just what it was. And then Sonia coming out and

27:56 doing that. Where, where do you think they're ultimately going with it? Cause I just don't see the, I mean, they're just drawing it out for me too long. Where do you think they're going?

28:05 I'm taking a wait and see on this. I'm a fan of Sonia Deville and her performance. I think she's been believable and nuanced and, and had, had shown that at different times, you know, even before taking on this role and, And this gives her something to do. And again, I go back to sort of my generic wish for more women to be elevated and put in the mix with, put in the mix where it seems like there are significance and there's not just this big gap between the established top four or fives or six women and the rest.

28:41 And so, you know, This is giving her some TV time. I don't know what the result is, but I'm okay with it as long as the announcers are saying out loud what we're thinking and what you're thinking, which is why? What's Sonya's beef with Naomi? How does this end? Why is this going on like this? And, you know, Baszler's just kind of a good sort of heavy to be in this role, you know, doing the beatdowns. I'm okay with a slow build so far. I think I'm higher on it than you, Sean. Brandon, what do you think?

29:10 I think I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm completely fine with the Naomi and Deville aspect of the angle. I think that the slow build has mostly been fine. It seems pretty clear to me that they are going for, eventually, a return to the ring for Sonya, where the two of them face off. I can't imagine it going in any other direction. Perhaps it does, but to me, it seems to be headed in that direction, where Sonya eventually does step in the ring with Naomi and Naomi, I assume, beats her. But in the meantime, what I have not liked at all about this angle is the inclusion of Shayna Baszler, because I think that they had something with Shayna for the first time in a long time. She took out Nia Jax and then she she took out

30:01 Dana Brooke. She attempted to take out Doudrop and then just loses cleanly to Doudrop moves over to SmackDown. And I think a lot of people, myself included, were hoping that the move to SmackDown would give us an opportunity to sort of forget about the Doudrop loss and continue that track of this this killer that Shayna Baszler had been for the last month or so on Raw. And instead, she just gets gummed up in this angle where she's winning either, you know, in short order because of a quick count from Sonya Deville or in tonight's case, because of the match being restarted after she loses on both occasions in these matches with Naomi. Shayna has either actually lost the match. or at the very least visibly lost

30:51 the match. Uh, even if it wasn't actually, you know, fully called. So I have a big problem with that. I just think that Shane is too talented and too important in a division that is this thin to be utilized in this way. I think that there's other women that they could have put in the role of Naomi's weekly opponent to be the quote unquote heavy for, for Sonia before Sonia actually gets in the ring. And I think it would have worked better because some of those other women that they might've used in that role maybe could use a rub from getting a cheap win over Naomi.

31:28 Whereas I don't think Shayna gains anything with cheap wins. I think she loses.

31:34 Yeah. Yeah. Sean, back to you for your thoughts. I think some good points there.

31:38 Yeah, no, I agree. And I'm with you on the Shayna, you know, being included in it. I didn't really like that from the start. And part of, I guess what I'm kind of not liking is Sonia, I like Sonia, you know, more than Naomi. And I think that's my problem is like, Sonia is going to wrestle her. Naomi's going to win. It's Naomi's, you know, not that great in the ring. She's okay, but she's not great. I mean, it's like, I don't, I'm not really going to get behind her. And I think that's ultimately where they're going to go whenever they finish it, but where's Naomi going to go. And then they're going to put her in maybe higher spots, but I just don't know if she's like good enough to be in those higher spots. I mean,

32:14 I'm curious to see where they go and, I just haven't been an overall fan, but I'm willing to play it out and see what happens. And then the last thing I was going to bring up was going to Los Lotharios is what they're being called now, Garza and Carrillo, which was, you know, I guess kind of a cool name.

32:34 But I just, I don't know, like, I'm glad they're getting a push and I want, I want to see, you know, what they do with them. Cause they, they need to be pushed. I mean, they need more depth, especially in the tag teams. I got to get more tag teams, but you know, I'm just worried because Vince doesn't usually care about them. They're just going to kind of plot around, win some, lose some, whatever. But I just, want them to do something with their characters. Like other than like, we're prettier than, you know, better looking than everybody and all this kind of stuff. I just want them to do more with, with them as an app, as a tag team, other than we're just better looking than everybody. I want them to be like bad-ass guys,

33:09 bad-ass heels. So what do you think they've done with them? And where do you think they might go with them? And I'll let, hopefully Nick's there. Cause if I say his name, he's not there. It makes me look bad, but hopefully he's on there and all the other callers. I'm curious to see what you guys thought. And, Brandon, I appreciate you, man. Wade, you're the best. I always appreciate you guys taking my call.

33:29 Thanks, Sean. Great to talk to you again.

33:31 Yeah, thanks.

33:32 Yeah, I'm kind of cool with what they're doing with Angel Garza and Humberto Carrillo, too. I mean, I don't see them as badass. I don't know. I mean, I guess it depends what you mean by badass. If you mean just make sure they kind of have a credible edge to them, yeah, definitely. But, I mean, they're leaning hard into– a shtick that seems to fit their look, their appearance, their style, their age. And it's bringing out a personality in Humberto that's kind of fun to see instead of just sort of, you know, the likable, dopey, smiling guy who gets beat up and takes great bumps.

34:07 Now he's, you know, I think looking like he belongs next to Angel Garza in terms of an arrogant, full of himself heel. So I think this is getting more out of him. And I mean, one of the things with the draft that I think, baking a draft into the format like they do to their calendar, I think it does cause them to just sit down and brainstorm and reassess who aren't we taking advantage of? What more can we do with certain people? Who can we present in a new way and repackage and elevate as a result of it? And I think we're seeing a lot of it. And that's why in the two, three weeks leading up to Crown Jewel, I was just like, I just want to get past this event and get to the draft because I know this stuff happens. And It

34:49 doesn't all work and we don't like everything that they do with everybody, but it's more interesting because you are seeing what feels like the result of some brainstorming and open-mindedness towards talent that's been sitting in the back getting stale. So again, in a generic sense, I'm for it. And in a specific sense, I think they're doing a good job and they're good. You know, like I want to see them in tag team matches. I think if they're going to be in tag matches and they're protected somewhat, they're going to be good. And it's good for New Day and the Usos And the Viking writers have opponents that aren't just each other over and over. Brandon, your thoughts.

35:24 Yeah, I'm I'm I'm cool with this in theory. I think that like like you brought up and like Sean brought up, it's it's really crucial that they get depth in the tag team division. They they very frequently during these drafts, they'll oftentimes break teams up sort of arbitrarily and especially in the women's division. and send guys to different rosters for seemingly no reason, and then create this conundrum for themselves that doesn't really need to happen. And so to have this influx of new teams on SmackDown, I think is helpful. The problem though, of course, is just that every year they kind of do this. And then inevitably these guys and gals just get lost in the shuffle and are quickly defined down. And then you're

36:10 left with, the Usos versus the New Day for the 10th time or the Usos versus the Street Profits. I think that is ultimately what WWE just keeps going back to over and over, no matter who they have waiting in the wings. So, you know, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that this time could be different, but history suggests that it won't be.

36:33 So for me, it's kind of a wait and see. I think Garza and Carrillo have done an admirable job in this role so far. Carrillo seems sort of like a plug and play to, to replace Andrade in some respects. I mean, I think that the team has done enough to differentiate itself from that, from that team. It's Carrillo has taken on Garza's gimmick more than he has slipped into the Andrade role. So I think that that that's a good thing. Um, But I'm interested to see where they go. I think this week was a far better showing for them than last week where they got involved in that just ridiculous Halloween match with Nakamura and Rick Boobs.

37:20 And I had said in my report for PW Torch just how disappointing it was to seemingly define a brand new team on SmackDown down immediately by putting them in this ridiculous comedy shtick and sort of being subservient in a way to happy Corbin and, and, and madcap Moss. And I think that maybe they recognize that, that putting them in that position last week, wasn't the smartest move.

37:47 And they definitely course corrected this week by just having them in a straight up tag match where they could showcase what they can do and, and get a win.

37:56 Sean did mention Nick from Brattleboro. So that means we have to go to him and we want to go to him. Nick, And Brattleboro, welcome.

38:08 Huge shout-out to Sean. How are you doing, buddy? Also, good evening to you, too. How are you guys doing?

38:15 Doing great. Good to talk to you.

38:18 Yeah, I got my booster three days ago, and I've recovered. No more arm pain. So hang in there, Brandon. And I also had a COVID test, and it was negative. So everything's great.

38:32 Anyway....

38:34 Hello, Aaron Rodgers. Anyway, a little bit more global here. I agree with Sean that this week's show just didn't do it for me, and I think what I identified is this was more sports entertainment SmackDown from, say, maybe even two years ago than wrestling SmackDown, that it has been... really through the pandemic and the Thunderdome and the return to crowds era, it, it, there was so much, um, uh, Sammy Zane and, and hit row and just so much sports entertainment stuff, uh, happy talk. And I just, it, was very boring from a wrestling sports standpoint.

39:33 I don't know how often they sit down and think are we going to have a lot of good wrestling on the show are we going to have a lot of good promos on the show are we overdoing it on some of the things that people are sensitive to like distraction finishes and corniness and you know I think Adam Cole is sweating spray tan right now on his chest.

39:54 I don't usually get distracted with Rampage in the background, but I think he's sweating spray on tan right now on national television. Maybe it's my color balance.

40:02 Oh, he's having a Rudy Giuliani moment.

40:07 Anyway, sorry.

40:08 I pride myself on not losing my train of thought despite all the distractions I often surround myself with. Yeah, so this wasn't a show that This was a show that checked fewer boxes of what I love, although we haven't gotten into how good Bloodline was tonight. But it didn't hold back on some of the indulgences. And, you know, happy Corbin and Madcap Moss and that hilarity. You know, although, I mean, it was almost worth watching SmackDown.

40:41 Heavy quotation marks. Yeah.

40:43 Well, it was almost worth watching SmackDown, Brandon, just for. The Viking Raiders to make fun of... I'm trying to find the quote here. When they came out, I'm scrolling to it as I talk. I'm stalling here. The Viking Raiders come out and Eric said, they aren't there to be their guests. Ivar said, we're here to raid Happy Talk because it's corny and it sucks. I'm like, and then it was great. Corbin's like the chill guy, not flinching.

41:16 He goes.

41:17 you guys are still in your Halloween costumes, you know? Like, what are you doing talking about corniness? So not a great self-awareness from the Viking Raiders. I cut up the spit take for the Viking Raiders, having the gall to call someone else corny as they walk out in their Viking gear. But at least Corbin responded with it. And, you know, Madcap Moss's joke was just so stupid, it was almost kind of funny.

41:37 No one was wrong there, by the way.

41:40 I know.

41:41 That's the thing. Yeah, they're all just staring each other down, and it's sort of like, You look backstage like, you know, hey, everybody, you know what they're saying about each other? It's all true, but it doesn't have to be. You know, you guys back there are in control of this. You don't have to be this way. So, yeah, I don't know. Brandon, yeah, I guess what's your overall take on tonight's episode? Sometimes I watch and I report and then I do the show and I'm thinking about specific segments to talk about and delve into. And I don't kind of have that, you know, that time to just think, oh, how was this show overall? And our callers do. So how about you?

42:12 I'm putting you on the spot.

42:14 So I'm kind of looking at it with a hypercritical eye here because I've covered both the last two weeks in different ways. Last week, covering the show in written format for PW Torch, and then tonight watching without the writing aspect, but preparing to do this show. So I definitely thought tonight was a stronger showing than last week, but the bar was admittedly low. I mean, last week's show was one of, my least favorite episodes of SmackDown in, in quite a long time. And I do not think that that is in, in small part, uh, because of, of Roman Reigns absence. I think that had, you know, almost everything to do with it. Uh, Reigns returned tonight and, and the work that the bloodline did tonight, I thought

43:02 went a long way in making the show more enjoyable. But generally speaking, I have not found SmackDown to be quite as strong since, uh, the new rosters kicked in. I think that they, they took a lot of talent over to raw. And though they SmackDown was replenished in certain ways with some fresh acts, uh, Wade, I think they're very much still suffering from what you and I talked about on the post draft episode of, of this show that there's just no, there's just no upper mid card.

43:34 There's no challengers for Roman reigns. I mean, they're, they're, they're slowly getting drew McIntyre there, obviously, but, he appears to be kind of in this open challenge mode for, for a little while before they want to start teasing his involvement with the bloodline. So there's just, there's nothing there.

43:53 There's nothing for, for talent to do. Everything feels very stagnant. It feels like a show that is sort of spinning its wheels. And there, there was some good stuff tonight. I think again, the, what the bloodline did was great. And, As we started the show talking about where they can go with Survivor Series, I feel pretty positively about that.

44:15 But still, even that angle doesn't feel huge. It feels like a show spinning its wheels.

44:22 It's next-level coverage that you come to expect from the PW Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media experience that I know many of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at a time, and settle in for high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. Yeah, I think SmackDown being a better show before than now in certain ways is not taking into... What I take into account is does it feel fresh and new and are there some new people being pushed? Do we have some new journeys? And

45:11 I don't watch wrestling for the show only because I want it to be good. I also enjoy watching people get elevated and get cast in new ways that ideally takes... better advantage of their talent. And so I have sort of a, a, a, a more generous curve early when new things are happening. And cause I don't think a good pro wrestling show is just about having good matches.

45:35 Like there's just no shortage of good matches in the world, both currently and archives and all that. It's like, I want to be taken on a journey. I want the characters to interest me. I want to see characters not on a treadmill, but changing. So that in a way can sort of cloud my judgment towards, yeah, but is any of it any good? Or is enough of it good?

45:56 Or are they left with less wrestlers of consequence? As to not having sort of that mid-card, I mean, we see, and sometimes these cutbacks can be overblown. And, you know, I mean, when we look at the list of cutbacks, I mean, I look at who got cut and it's a product of hiring a bunch of people. And by definition, there's gonna be a lot of people who you think for a wide array of reasons aren't worth continuing to invest in. And that's going to happen. And I think WWE, it might be prudent to them to stop doing mass layoffs and just sort of quietly let people go a little bit at a time and not have it become a big whole day story. You know, and then, but do they care? You know, I mean, they just think

46:35 it's going to, you know, blow away in a day or two. And in some ways it does, but in some ways it doesn't because people end up kind of like with the Saudi shows, which is less goodwill towards the brand. And I think this is just sort of a PR nightmare for them, you know, on social media for a day or two and it, but it, but it kind of sticks around the negative feelings stick around. Um, but when you look at the top wrestlers, I mean, I talked to enough people to kind of get the side of the story of WWE, why certain people would let go. And I talked to wrestlers who talk about, yeah, I mean, the fans aren't going to know this, but if you knew what I knew, you'd understand why they were cut that kind of thing. But I also get

47:10 some people and especially a couple instances, um, among the list where people like, I, I, I don't know why they cut him or her, but, I disagree with it and it was a mistake. So basically, we don't know enough to know everything when it comes to these cutbacks. What we do know is that they aren't replenishing. So my issue is not pretending that because I was a fan of somebody in the indie circuit five years ago or two years ago or thought they had a good match or I just liked their gimmick that they deserve to continue to have a job perpetually. There are other things that go into it. Bad attitudes, laziness, Um, in, in this case, sometimes not getting vaccinated when they need to go to states where you need vaccinations to get in. And,

47:53 and it's, it's a, you know, that's a legit concern for a wrestling company to have.

47:57 Um, so, and, and, or, or.

48:00 Things outside the ring. That happened a lot where management hears about it and they go, this person is not someone we want representing our company off hours. So that stuff happens. So my issue isn't that there's cutbacks. My issue is, do we see them replenishing enough? And I feel like they're not replenishing enough. I want there to be shows, and we got it here with like No Charlotte, for instance, but not every SmackDown has to have everybody on it. You know, that's one of the benefits of AEW having a deep roster is the top wrestlers stay fresher.

48:26 They're not out there just burning themselves out. So It's kind of a long journey to get to my point, which is it would be nice to have a mid-card where you can watch wrestlers and go, I think that there's a chance they're going to rise through the ranks and they're going to be successful and I want to be along for that ride. And when you gut the roster and don't replenish it, you don't have that depth, then you end up with the wrestlers who you're supposed to invest hope in or think are in fresh situations are A ricochet who you have lose in five minutes, give or take, to Drew. And then the redeeming aspect of the storyline is he gets to stand up to Ali, who also got beat up by Drew last week. And

49:11 why– they want us to get excited about people who are constantly defined down with no hope of moving up. And that's where that's where there's this big gap, but they just don't want, they don't want people, you know, they don't want people on payroll who aren't in money positions, not understanding that to get people in money positions, you need people who aren't in money positions who you treat well for a couple of years first. So anyway, yeah.

49:35 Yeah, it quickly becomes chicken or egg scenario and catch-22s for a lot of these guys and girls. And I think that the strangest thing with these cutbacks to me is just how only a few years ago we were talking about how incredibly deep the WWE roster was. And some guys were getting used, some guys weren't, and people were itching for certain guys and girls to be promoted and maybe for others to be rotated or cycled out.

50:04 And And now one of the biggest talking points on these shows week to week is just how glaringly obvious that they do not have depth. And so instead of cycling in new talent and bringing in new acts and elevating acts, what instead they've done is cut the majority of guys and gals that they brought in that never got a huge amount of exposure, lost the talent that were over and who we thought had bright futures within the company, guys like Adam Cole, for example, and continued to push the same acts that have been retread over and over again and have shown not to connect time and time again. So despite having this massive talent roster at one time, it's like, they spun the wheel and landed back at the original starting point and emptied the

51:01 new talent out. It was, it's just a really, it's a strange, strange circumstance.

51:08 All right, Todd, Nick, back to you.

51:11 Yeah, just to build on that, like one thing I was thinking while you guys were talking is they brought up Ridge Holland. He's basically, over the last, I think it's three weeks or been standing backstage with a, what are those called, a sap, you know, a mallet, whatever those, the police baton, banging it into his hand. They could have, or they could, and they may still, have him challenge Drew, have a great 15-minute match where he loses but gets elevated because he did so well in the way A.W.

51:59 did with Darby, with Jungle Boy, where they had these matches with the top stars. Of course they lost, but in their losing, they went through a labor of Hercules and came close and then you can then go back to them and then they win, you know, and then they triumph. And, and, um, and, and I agree totally with what Brandon is saying. I mean, could you imagine a, a, a baby face Alistair Black getting ready to take on Roman, uh, at the day one pay-per-view? It would be amazing. I mean, people would be going nuts. Um, and, uh, While I know what they were doing with the Kofi and the Usos, since Jimmy came back, the Usos have lost several times, including to Dominic and Ray and a few other people.

52:58 And Romans never flipped out before, unless this was all planned for them to beat up the king. And I was just worried that bringing the New Day king gimmick, if they just brought the New Day in, that's one thing, but bringing in the whole king gimmick, in a way, almost brought Roman down a little bit instead of Roman bringing Xavier and Kofi up. And at the end of the show, I'm sitting there going, there's two minutes left. Okay, where's Biggie? You know, he's supposed to come out now and set up whatever's going to happen at Survivor Series.

53:35 I like your guys' idea of a three-on-three, you know, non-title. You can have a couple of. Times when Roman and Big A are facing off and then have either Kofi or one of the Usos take the pin at the end of it.

53:52 Yeah.

53:53 I just feel that, yeah.

53:55 Well, I think.

53:56 Oh, yeah, go ahead.

53:57 Yeah, a number of things there. One, I think the Xavier bit with the King, I mean, it's just not for me. I'm, you know, open-minded to the idea that I'm in the minority and there's, you know, enough people getting a kick out of it. I I see this kind of smug self-satisfaction with a real, with cheesing it up as if cheesing it up to 11 makes it original and entertaining. It's not quite insufferable for me, but it's not.

54:26 It's not.

54:27 I'm not alone, you mean?

54:28 No, you're not alone at all.

54:30 Yeah. So, I mean, he's standing up there.

54:33 I'm going to shout out the window. I'm mad as hell.

54:35 I appreciate it. The way that Kofi and Xavier come across, it's hard for me to see them as sympathetic or appealing babyface acts because they're just, again, so smugly self-satisfied as if they're just doing something that is the most entertaining thing that anyone could imagine. And with the escape hatch being, well, we know we're being corny. We're just being corny to an extreme degree that makes it original and fun. And I just don't think it does.

55:04 It's so....

55:05 I don't enjoy that. Now, when it's aimed at getting under Roman's skin, and if it pulls some good reactions out of Roman, there's some redeeming qualities to that. You know, but it doesn't seem like Xavier is in on the joke mocking Roman for being full of himself. Xavier just thinks, I won King of the Ring. I have more of a right to be full of myself than you do.

55:25 And that sort of ruins it for me. There doesn't seem to be kind of that self-aware sense of humor. We're not really taking ourselves seriously in a wink at the audience. Like, I just I don't sense that's there. And I find Kofi pretty close to insufferable endorsing Xavier. So all of that said, I still, anything that Roman and the Bloodline are involved in, it tends to be good to excellent. And I thought this was one of the better weeks for them playing off each other. Inconsistencies in the past are not good, but Roman going, I'm gone for a week and look what happens. And And the great lines, I was running around naked on my own private island, which my wife loved. And he kind of just broke into a little smile. I don't know

56:13 if it broke character, but Roman showed a sense of joy for the first time since turning heel in kind of that moment of delighting in the type of vacation fun that he has as he frolics naked on the island for his wife. So there were enough moments. And I've been calling for Jimmy and Jay in the tension with, them being subservient and letting Roman down. And, uh, and, and when they pointed at each other and, you know, cause they're twins who, who took, who lost and they like pointed at each other. You know, I'm sure they did that as kids, you know, who broke the window, him, him, you know, well, the neighbor only saw it was one of you. We don't know which one.

56:46 Oh, it was him.

56:46 It was him. I mean, I'm sure that's played out. So, and Heyman, I mean, just is fantastic. And the nervousness that he had, the frantic, like near nervous breakdown he had when one of the Usos didn't hand the microphone to Roman, Roman held his hand out. Um, It just– again, I just– there was so much about this that was good that even if other aspects of the show didn't do much for you, it's hard to not give so much credit to that that it weighs the show in a positive way quite a bit. Brandon, go ahead and jump in on any of that.

57:19 Yeah, I think that there's something to be said for mixing this ridiculous King gimmick of New Day– in with something as, as serious and, uh, and, and, you know, well positioned as the bloodline. But I think that Roman and, and by extension, the Usos and Paul Heyman have been so good that the way that they're going about this, the way that Roman looked down at woods tonight at the end of the show and, and told him that, you know, I forget the exact line. He said something about seeing what a real king is next week. And Pat McAfee said, you know, what does that mean? I think that Reigns has an air about him and a confidence about him that he can get away with mixing it up with an act that displays as little seriousness

58:16 as New Day does and still come out for the better because of how talented he's been. And how confident he is in this role. I am definitely. While I agree with both of you guys. On the subject of New Day. And Xavier Woods. And this whole King gimmick. The one sort of net positive. I can take out of this. Is the fact that it could be much worse.

58:41 In that they could have saddled. An actual serious character with this gimmick. We could have seen. Finn Balor transform into. King Balor.

58:52 And.

58:53 I think that the alternative of Xavier Woods getting the gimmick is far, far better. Now, if I had a vote or a say, I would say no one should get the King gimmick. You should just win King of the Ring and then get a push. But alas, that's not how we do King of the Ring anymore. So if someone is going to get stuck with this King gimmick, at least it's a character that is already ridiculous and over the top and doesn't take himself too seriously. I'm not really getting a kick out of changing their names and speaking with a royal accent. And man, calling Kingston Sir Kofi Kingston, it's bad. It's not good. But again, I think that what they do in the ring makes up for some of it. And them working with the

59:47 bloodline is going to be a lot of fun, even if their promos might be a little insufferable.

59:54 I'm Chris Maitland.

59:55 I'm Justin McClelland.

59:56 We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, a podcast of independent wrestling.

1:00:00 Every week, Chris and I review a different show or talk about important topics from around the indie wrestling world.

1:00:05 Learn about the hot underground stars and the future main eventers before anyone else. You can reach us at TorchCoastToCoast at gmail.com and me on Blue Sky at Mind of Maitland. You can reach me at Blue Sky at Justin McClelland. Find the show on your PW Torch Daily Cast podcast feed Search PWTorch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, stream the latest shows on PWTorch.com.

1:00:36 Nick, any follow-up?

1:00:37 I know you talked about a lot, so if there's something else you want us to respond to, please prompt us for that.

1:00:42 Yeah, no, real quick. I just actually thought it was funny as Cole kept calling him Night Tophie. He couldn't think of Sir Kofi. I said, Night Kofi is doing this. Anyway, last point, and then I'll get off and let Chris get on, if he's on. But if you know anybody backstage, tell them to tell McAfee that he's got to tone it down a little bit. He's going way too far back to his first few weeks. where he was just so over-the-top effusive that he's starting to be grating again, to me, at least. I mean, he still says some great things, but his overall enthusiasm and euphoria over what is going on is getting to be a little bit of a pain. And with that, I will say good night and wish you all a great weekend.

1:01:44 Thank you, Nick, very much. Good topic. Brandon, were you the one who told me early on, I like Pat McAfee, give him a chance?

1:01:53 Maybe.

1:01:53 You're a fan of his radio show?

1:01:57 I don't listen to his radio show often.

1:01:59 I have.

1:02:02 I still enjoy him. I like what he's doing. I was going to actually bring up tonight that I feel like It's a bit hard to explain, but to me, for years and years, WWE commentary has felt so sterile and so insular that it has felt like anyone who speaks at that announce booth must eat, sleep, breathe WWE 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They've never seen a movie. They've never watched a TV show. They don't follow sports enough about Byron Saxton. Why you got to beat up their current events? Knowledge comes directly from whatever they were told backstage to say right before they went out. That's how they all feel. And I'm sure that they're all very well read and they're, you know, good guys with plenty of hobbies and interests, but that's

1:02:56 not the way that they come off on TV. Pat McAfee is the exact opposite. He feels plugged in to current events. So the real world, to sports, to movies, to TV. He feels plugged into all of it. He feels like a living, breathing human being instead of a WWE robot. And because of that, I'm willing to overlook some of the shortcomings he has elsewhere. There are unquestionably some grading aspects to what he's doing. And I do agree there are definitely times where it calls for him to, you know, kind of live in the moment and, and realize that not every segment is a WrestleMania home run.

1:03:44 Yes.

1:03:45 I'm, I'm really close to where you are on him. Um, and I think that's really well put having, I think what, everything that you complimented him on is what makes the things that are grading right now about him all the more disappointing in, in the sense that, um, He does seem like he's not a WWE robot who's programmed to just say things positive about WWE that fit exactly the corporate styling, this corporate message styling that Vince McMahon has honed over the years and trained everybody in on. To the point where I sat down with the WWE announcer once after a WWE TV event. It doesn't work there anymore.

1:04:23 And he opened up a folder saying, And showed me, oh, here's the words that Vince McMahon says you might be tempted to use. And here are the phrases you should use instead. Now, I won't even say guilty of it. I do that with people who write for me. I think there's phrases that are used that are trite, that are cliche, that are just grammatically wrong, that are pet peeves of mine. And so I'll do that too. And I actually kind of have an appreciation to a degree with Vince McMahon for thinking– you know, do we really want to call our championships straps? You know, like the problem is how strident and antiseptic it ends up feeling when all the rules are applied all the time and the joy in the humanity is taken out of conversation.

1:05:08 So I get the spirit of what he's doing. I understand his history comes from an era where wrestling was seen as lowbrow and his philosophy was formed on trying to counteract that by not having sloppy language and lazy wording and cliches. And that's why, you know, he, when he was younger, overdid it on the, you know, multi-syllable words, you know, or just, you know, he had, you know, notwithstanding, you know, they have his favorite words that sounded more complex than needed because he comes from that. And I think people watching now who are younger, you know, don't get that. That's sort of the, uh, the origin story of what he does. It's to try to seem a little bit higher brow, which is ironic when you look

1:05:51 at his sense of humor and the content he puts out there. But, you know, I'm not saying it makes sense in the end. I'm just saying, where is he coming from? And where he's coming from is, I just want the product to sound less lowbrow, and then I can get away with my stupid sense of humor. I don't know. So, all of that said, Pat McAfee... being so effusively over-the-top, excited about everything, seemingly indiscriminately, works against and makes it more disappointing because in other ways he does seem like a fresh voice who's speaking freely. But he loses points as a free-speaking, non-robot, worried about what Vince McMahon is going to yell at him through a headset or backstage afterwards, like just about everybody else, including

1:06:41 Legends fans. like Mick Foley, former ECW champion, and a great promo was there, a Taz. I mean, these people, and Rene Young, one of the nicest people in the whole world, and he's just being jerks to them on the headset. And I just doubt Pat McAfee would have put up with that for a week. So that's where I think it, for people who do appreciate what Nick explained that he likes about him, that's why I think it becomes all the more disappointing when he's somewhat angry he's not very discriminating when it comes to putting everything over in a way that it's the greatest thing ever and laying it on a little too thick. So if he was a little more discriminating and picking out the right things worthy of praise and lowering the volume and

1:07:27 the temperature a little bit on the things that he should have the, the ability to gauge aren't worthy of such praise, he could be a great color commentator. And that bombast and that kind of that Mark Madden-esque, you know, approach that he brings to commentary, I think would work better. I don't know. I know people are reacting different ways to one comedy made, but I'll get to that in a minute because we have an email on it. Any thoughts on my summation, I guess, of my thoughts on McAfee?

1:08:02 No, I think I think that's that's pretty accurate. I think that that he does need to discriminate from from segment to segment. It's not something that he's shown a proclivity to do for for better or for worse. I don't or for one way or the other. I don't know why that has become his go to there because there seems to be some real genuine excitement in in his commentary. And a love for what he's doing.

1:08:30 I think he walks through the door at the arena at 5 p.m. or 3 p.m. or 7 or 1 p.m., 6.58, whatever time he shows up. If it's right before showtime, I think he walks through the door and goes, yes, I'm here. What's planned? Let's get to it. I'm excited. Let's talk. Whether that's true or not, I have never asked, but that's when he comes across.

1:08:51 The funny thing, Oh, yeah, for sure. And the funny thing is, is somehow the guy who who really might be the biggest company guy of them all. all in the sense that he just loves everything he's seeing and everything that he's doing and he just loves it. It's great. It's perfect. It's, it's everything that he wants and then some.

1:09:09 So somehow this guy that, that is the only one in the company who doesn't sound like a company guy is in fact the biggest company guy of them all. Yeah. It's such a conundrum, and it's so strange that it comes off that way. But he– and that's the thing. I think what you mentioned, if Vince McMahon was yelling at Pat McAfee in the headset, I just don't think he'd put up with it. I mean this is a guy– I said it months ago when McAfee first came around.

1:09:39 Pat McAfee does not need WWE. WWE needs Pat McAfee.

1:09:43 That's right.

1:09:44 If, if Vince McMahon cut Pat McAfee tomorrow, he's going to go on his radio show on Monday morning and he's going to be perfectly fine. He's going to make plenty of money and he's going to be a household name, especially in the NFL world. I mean, today alone, McAfee McAfee is, is everywhere because of that Aaron Rogers interview.

1:10:03 So I mean, McAfee does not need this job. So I don't think I was worried in the, in the beginning that, McMahon was going to get to him, that Vince was going to change the way that he came across. And the things that have changed about McAfee's delivery, it more feels like him slipping back into old ways than it does him being molded by Vince McMahon.

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1:11:28 Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. I'll read the email on McAfee here. Dnaz said, just watched the backstage segment with Hit Row and Sami Zayn. I thought they did an okay job handling the release of BFAB by sweeping it under the rug on television. But then I hear Pat McAfee exclaim that it's going to be fabulous as they cut to a commercial. What was he thinking? LOL. Thanks and go VIP, everyone. I didn't catch that. I mean, I probably heard it. I just didn't think about it. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't know enough. I have to ask if that seems like it was a tip of the hat to her. Like, hey, we haven't forgotten you. Or, haha, you lost your job and I'm glad you did because I know why you

1:12:23 lost your job and you deserve to not have a job. Like, I couldn't read into it, so I can't. judge it also could have just been him being cute um what was your take or what is your take on.

1:12:33 It yeah i i was not sure either way i did hear the comment and i i wondered very much you know what what he was trying to get across there mcafee has in the past had these sort of like you said cute references in order to like i don't know like pop the internet or or get people talking and He's very much plugged in. I mean, he knows what's going on. He knows what the beat is online.

1:13:02 I think it's very clear that he follows the product very closely.

1:13:07 Hi, Pat.

1:13:07 Call in some time.

1:13:10 From a behind-the-scenes aspect, he seems to be very clued in because he has dropped hints and said things before that someone who's not paying attention just wouldn't know to do.

1:13:22 I mean.

1:13:23 it's, it's clear that he is plugged in and in that way. So I don't know. I don't know if he was, it was some sort of dog whistle in one way or another, or if he just thought like, Hey, here's a cool way to reference this person who WWE is not going to talk about her being gone. So maybe I can do this. I don't know. I, if I had to guess, I guess maybe I would, I would think it's that because, you know, it's kind of a cute little nod to her, but yeah, man, while, while we're on the subject of, of hit row, I don't, man, I don't, I don't know how you felt Wade, but it, they, they felt empty.

1:13:59 To me without her BFAB without her.

1:14:02 Yeah.

1:14:02 It just felt, it felt totally, totally different. I mean, the second they appeared on screen with Sammy Zane, I was like, this doesn't feel right. This doesn't look right. And, and the thing is, is they're not even a well-established act. I mean, they didn't spend a ton of time in NXT. So, it shows the chemistry that the four of them developed together as a unit. The fact that I'm feeling that way in, in that short amount of time. And I think this is going to be a huge blow to the three of them, not just, you know, her, the loss of her in general, but I thought, I felt like they lost something already.

1:14:40 Yeah.

1:14:40 One wrestler asked about the reliefs as an ex WB guy. And he just said the BFAB release was really short sighted. And I've been asking around, you know, just trying to get a sense of, of, why um and again of yeah.

1:14:53 Of everything of all the releases today when when you look past you know keith lee and mia yim you can make the case and i think a very strong case that how can you release these two when you you're struggling so much for depth right now and you need people of their caliber in their respective divisions to fill out the rosters but given the way that things have gone with Keith Lee in the past. I think you can connect the dots and, and kind of see where that one was coming from. And of course the connection to Mia Yim makes it easy to kind of, to group the two together. So for me today, by far the biggest surprise has to be B-Fab. It makes no sense.

1:15:40 Um, yeah.

1:15:40 And it makes me think, is there more to it? And I mean, you know, These are human beings with a wide range of common sense and a wide range of immaturity. And then there's other instances where somebody is a strong person and WWE expects you to be subservient. And you conduct yourself professionally, but you also expect to be treated professionally. And as Nia Jax just explained her side of the story, WWE doesn't always communicate really well and they don't put up well with people who break unwritten rules. So I don't know which side, if it had anything to do with BFAB, either her honoring behavior being unprofessional or perhaps on the flip side, she just stood up to management in a way that a grownup

1:16:29 should be able to without losing their career because she's not gonna put up with their BS. It could be one of those two things. One that you go, well, good, she got released. She might've deserved it because of X, Y, Z that she did. The other side could be management sure has a thin skin and boy, by getting rid of her, they sent a message, everybody should be compliant.

1:16:46 And just do what you're told. And I don't know what it is. I'm asking around on that. It could be some third option too. Um, but I agree. It hurts it row. Um, for sure.

1:16:56 Yeah, it definitely, it changes. It changes that, that the whole, it changes the, just the whole, the whole landscape of that act. I think, I mean, when they, when they came out tonight and, and you could still kind of hear her in the background or their theme. And it's like, man, this, it just feels off. It feels, it feels weird. I, I think and what you're bringing up there, there's so many avenues and so many reasons that that could potentially be the catalyst for these releases. Like we just had a brand new one thrown into the mix with Nia Jax.

1:17:29 I mean, here she is saying, you know, it's related to requesting time off due to due to her mental health. But then there was also the fact that that apparently she was out with an injury, with a legitimate injury and had surgery to to to take care of that. And then, you know, I've seen a lot of people bring up the vaccination status. She sort of addresses that in, in her note, but then there's also the underlying piece of she was the person that, that started a lot of this stuff with Charlotte flair. And, you know, is there a breaking point there? Did people in the locker room get behind her because she is sort of the, the, the unspoken or the unofficial spokeswoman for this sort of mounting frustration with Charlotte. I mean, there's a lot of

1:18:20 nuance to a lot of these releases, especially Nia.

1:18:24 My incomplete straw poll of the WWE locker room, and it is not a scientific sample size, but would indicate that it would be an overwhelming vote to keep Nia Jax and get rid of Charlotte. But that doesn't mean Charlotte's all wrong. I mean, Again, how much of, and Jason Paul brought this up last week on the flagship, you know, how much of what's going on with Charlotte is.

1:18:50 frustration with management, sort of isolating herself over things that she thinks management did wrong, that maybe her and Nia Jax will share some notes on someday and come to agreement. And she's just sort of like, you know, in a different place than some of the other women. And and in her life and professionally, and people are just taking it wrong and, you know, she handled it wrong, but she's not this awful person, you know, and she feels like she needs to stand up for herself in a way that other top stars have. And she's been given advice to do that because it worked before with management, but management's in a different place because of their financial standing and how corporate they are and it's not working.

1:19:23 And she just didn't really adjust to them, adjust to the situation. So it's always complicated in these situations. And so I, you know, I know Twitter just, you know, you can just make your judgment instantly and, How dare they release Keith Lee? I have people in WWE who really like Keith Lee personally, who don't think he deserved to keep his job because he had a, just a bare minimum attitude towards his job. And they're, they're sad for him, but they don't blame management, you know, and they like him, but they get it. There just wasn't a motivation to, to, to, you know, that there needed to be more, more, more from him. so that they felt he was safe and someone they could rely on and someone who could deliver in a big pay-per-view main event.

1:20:09 They didn't want to push him as a mid-carder. They wanted to push him as a top guy. But to be a top guy, you've got to do top guy things, and he wasn't. And you could tell it was push-pull, try again, let's give him another chance. Okay, now we're down on him again. Maybe this will teach him a lesson.

1:20:25 I remember Jim Ross with Big Show back in the day. you know, and have these long phone calls with big show, you know, got to stop smoking and eating Snickers and you got to get yourself in shape. You're going to have such a great career. And then they jobbed him out on TV and thought maybe that'll hurt his pride and pictures, whatever you're paying me. And I can, it's just like every situation's different, but people who just think WWE is being awful to Keith Lee. It's like, there is so it's just, you're not getting the full view with that instant reaction of it's a shame because I liked, you know, a few things he did. Um, OK, so all that said, I hope they I hope they add to the to the hit row act and round it

1:21:01 out because it does feel like it's missing something. And maybe there's someone else can, you know, play that part. One of their one of their girlfriends or their sister or friend. I don't know. Somebody on the scene.

1:21:12 Yeah, it's so it's so weird to sort of I mean, in a way you figure, OK, it's a it's a relatively new act. So so theoretically, you could put someone else in there. but their gimmick is so specific that it really has to be a good fit. And if it's somebody that the crowd senses that WWE has sort of shoehorned into that role, someone who doesn't necessarily belong that man, they're in for even more trouble. I mean, it would be, you know, it's the, it's the equivalent, it's the equivalent of, you know, CM Punk setting up the shield and he, he gets Roman reigns in the shield. Like, because, He doesn't he doesn't recommend Roman Reigns for the shield.

1:21:52 But WWE puts him in there because, you know, they want him in that prominent position. And, you know, look where that wound got Roman Reigns for several years after the shield ran. So they're they're playing with fire if they just sort of shoehorn someone in there, especially someone that that is replacing someone who they fired.

1:22:12 Yes, absolutely. You don't you don't want a. God, I'm trying, like, this is a very dated reference, but when the, when the actors on Duke, the original Dukes of Hazzard had a contract holdout and they replaced him with two replacements for a season and everybody hated it. What, what's a more contemporary example of the substitution? I mean, yeah, Diesel and Kane, that's easy to go to with, you know, Glenn Jacobs and Rick Bogner. But yeah, Eddie, oh, actually, oh, this is even older. Actually, no, it's not, it's, it's older than the Kane-Diesel one, but newer than the Dukes of Hazzard one. In Memphis Wrestling, the fabulous ones left.

1:22:47 And they just created a new fabulous ones tag team with Eddie Gilbert and now I'm drawing a blank on, Oh my God, who is, I'm, I don't know. Uh, maybe Nick knows some, someone messaged me, Eddie Gilbert in the new fabulous ones. Let me see if I can, um, remember.

1:23:07 Oh, what?

1:23:09 Please don't what?

1:23:10 Please don't give them ideas. Cause somebody next week, somebody's going to show up with, and they're going to be like C fab or D fab. Like, It's completely different person.

1:23:19 The answer to this is awesome. So Stan Lane and Steve Kern, one of the, you know, kind of the, one of the original tag teams of that era, like the rock and roll express and the rockers, the midnight rockers, they left Memphis and they just replaced them with a new fabulous ones. Eddie Gilbert, this young up and coming, you know, baby face and wildfire. Tommy rich was not a great, even at that point, wasn't anymore. He was not a great fit for that anymore. So I chuckled because I forgot because it was so preposterous to make him a fabulous one. Anyway, Wildfire Tommy Rich had a run.

1:23:55 There should be a documentary on him, what an upstart, hot prospect he was, and then what he turned into later.

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1:25:01 Wait, before we move on from from the releases, this isn't necessarily release related, although I had brought up Charlotte Flair with the with the Nia Jax thing.

1:25:10 Yeah.

1:25:11 Would you get the sense? Because I've kind of looked at it both ways. Do you get the sense that that Charlotte's the issues with Charlotte lately are coming from a position more of Charlotte would like to get fired or Charlotte doesn't care if she gets fired? because the alternative of AEW is there and that's where her fiance is.

1:25:36 And that's, you know, and, and WWE, she could perceive that they've have wronged her father in, in any number of ways. Do you, do you feel like it's one of those two options or something different?

1:25:46 I think closer to, I don't care that I'm trying. Um, I think she feels she has a soft landing, um, if things go awry, but I also, I, I do not rule out and it doesn't mean I'm defending her actions, her attitude, um, the disrespect her colleagues feel for her, the disrespect towards the authority to, you know, it's one thing to make your case. It's like, you know, Jon Moxley told me when we interviewed him after he left WWE and before he went to AEW, I fought hard for changes. I told Vince McMahon, I thought this is dumb.

1:26:18 It makes me look dumb. The fans are going to think it's dumb. It's dumb. And if Vince said in the end, do it, he did the best he could to make it work. And I think the idea with Charlotte is, that she's got her gripes. She's got her insecurities. She's got her, I'm going to act like a top star because I am one. And just because I'm a woman and just because I'm tired of apologizing for the leg up that I got as a second generation wrestler, I'm just going to stand up for myself. And there's some, you know, clearly she thinks that and there's people telling her stand up for yourself, but it's coming across to at least some of her colleagues as selfish and in a business where that's, that can ostracize you pretty quick.

1:26:57 If it seems like you're not, willing to give. And then you have her putting out the story that she wanted to put over Bianca Belair. You know, Todd Martin on the fix said he didn't really buy that. I do think that's possible. Her camp would say that and as a way to, as a cover story. But there's just, is no way to know. I don't know either way.

1:27:15 I don't rule it out. I know people feel strongly. That's just inconsistent with her attitude. And it's to people who know the whole thing that's going on with Charlotte. They're like, there's just no way she would say that given her mindset and her approach to things and how she feels about Belair. I don't know enough to vouch for that. I'm just repeating that's what I'm told. With sources who have been reliable and have turned out to be right on things and all that. So I think with Charlotte, I mean, we want to make people good guys and bad guys behind the scenes and there's nuance.

1:27:50 But sometimes people are just kind of making boneheaded decisions and their reputation is earned. And it's, you know, immaturity or a cavalier attitude, because like you say, she feels like if I get fired, so what? I don't think she's trying to. But that's my assessment, not knowing.

1:28:10 I think what you bring up with Jon Moxley is an important distinction, because I think that there is a certain level of martyrdom that fans are attuned to and willing to accept with with wrestlers that are sort of trapped, for better or for worse, in WWE. With Jon Moxley, like you mentioned, he fought tooth and nail for what he believed in and what he thought was a good story.

1:28:39 But at the end of the day he would go out and do the crap that vince mcmahon wanted him to do not necessarily because not not just because he was under contract with with vince mcmahon but because i think moxley had a keen understanding that if it involved making someone else good or if his insubordination would negatively impact someone else on the roster, he wasn't willing to do that. Whereas with Charlotte Flair, I mean, we're now at two segments in the last, what, three months that have had to be removed or heavily edited from replays because they were so embarrassing. I mean, that's not something that nearly anyone on that roster I would think could get away with.

1:29:27 Yeah. Yeah.

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1:30:00 And after that, you can become a VIP member using your Apple account. It's that easy. Enjoy a streamlined listening experience to our free shows and unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app. All right, I've got Mike on hold here. I want to get to him, but good conversation. Hey, Mike, thanks for calling. You've been listening in. What's on your mind tonight regarding SmackDown?

1:30:38 Yeah, how you guys doing?

1:30:39 I thought SmackDown, it was okay tonight.

1:30:42 It had its on and off points.

1:30:44 It wasn't as good as Raw, I don't think. You know, Raw has had some, you know, really good matches the past couple of weeks, you know, and they feel, like, really fresh. But I did like tonight. I liked the Drew fight. Ricochet match. I thought that was fresh. And, you know, that was a fun match.

1:31:00 That was.

1:31:01 I don't know if you guys touched on that match earlier, but would you guys think of how they handled that match and where this is all headed for Drew? Are they going to push Drew, you think, to a match with Roman Reigns at the Rumble? Or do you think they'll hold off until Mania?

1:31:19 I like what they're doing with Drew coming out of losing to Big E at Crown Jewel. and getting a little bit cold on raw. And I think fans have a, I think fans appreciate when a wrestler shows a self-awareness of something that wasn't working and steers in a different direction. I think, and that'll come out in my, uh, part two of my interview with Tony Khan, uh, that'll be dropped tomorrow for VIP members. When we talk about Cody for a while, sometimes fans just want to see an acknowledgement that they've been heard. And, uh, instead of pushing back and saying they're wrong or get over it, you change.

1:31:58 And I think with Drew, he's saying, I guess you guys don't want to hear me talk. So let me just kick someone's ass. Someone come out here. And then he goes out and he's had two, two of the best like opponents you can have for Drew on the roster for a really good, compact, hot hat, hard hitting, entertaining, athletic TV match that Drew can win, but he's expected to win. It doesn't really bury the guys who lose. And, he can look like a badass who's redeeming, redeeming is the wrong word, who's rebuilding himself after coming up short against Big E and then moving to SmackDown. So I get the story. I think it's being done well. And I think using the two people who lost to Drew and having them now split off into a feud where

1:32:41 Ricochet did some of his best mic work he's done before the match and backstage with Ali, it felt, you know, more real and more relaxed, more authentic. It, I like the idea of Ricochet and Ali in a feud. That's a bias, too. I'm going to lean in more towards liking the storyline if it results in those two having some singles matches, too. So I like this quite a bit.

1:33:04 Brandon, how about you? Yeah, I thought this was one of the highlights of the show outside of the stuff with the bloodline. I think that so far, while I have been disappointed with the post-draft SmackDown by and large and sort of the new rosters, Drew McIntyre moving over to SmackDown was one of the things that I was looking forward to the most. And that's because I'm a huge fan of McIntyre and I think that he can bring a lot to the main event scene in WWE.

1:33:35 And I thought that they got so far away from that on Raw and he had fallen so far that he really, really needed a change up and some fresh scenery. So SmackDown certainly brings that for him. I think that having him on the same show as Roman Reigns is a good thing long term because they can clearly establish him as as the number one baby face opposite to Roman Reigns, number one heel. I think that this is a good start. He absolutely needed a rebuild. He needed some sort of winning streak, even if it is against lesser opponents. I think that toning down the mic work has been an overall positive because, Wade, like you said, I think on Raw the promos were getting too wordy.

1:34:22 I think that they were getting a little too comical for someone who's supposed to be taken seriously as a main event babyface act. And he was really in danger there of sort of falling into full-fledged rejection as a babyface. And I think they've done an admirable job in these first few weeks of, of sort of curbing that and, and getting him back around a corner to be a baby face that you want to root for. Uh, this is not entirely unlike the rebuild of John Cena in, in 2015, uh, during his us title run where Cena just went out there and granted it's on a larger scale than what they're doing with Drew right now. But, Cena also had a much longer run of sort of being maligned by the fans. So I, I liken it

1:35:11 to that just because John was going out there every week, having great matches with opponents who were deemed lesser than, and he was making them look really good, even in defeat. And I thought that that's exactly what drew did tonight with, with Ricochet. I thought this was Ricochet's best showing in a while and, I think they set something up for the coming weeks with Mustafa Ali, whether that means that Ricochet does turn heel and side with Mustafa or if it's just to get them to a match between Ricochet and Mustafa. Either way, I think it's a net positive for Ricochet and really good for Drew. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing this continue and to seeing Drew eventually move back into the spot that he should be in.

1:35:56 Yeah, I was wondering if Drew's going to have to turn heel, and I don't think he has to turn heel with this reframing of what he's doing. I think he can be a cheered babyface opponent to Reigns taking this approach, Brandon.

1:36:10 Oh, yeah, definitely. I think that's the goal, and I think that... that's what they should want to do. And I think that this is exactly the way that you can do it without doing a, a, you know, more harm. I think they're doing a really admirable job and it was a good match tonight. And man, that Claymore was really cool.

1:36:34 Yes, it was absolutely. And ricocheted a great opponent for him. Mike back to you. Any follow-up on that or another topic?

1:36:41 Yeah.

1:36:42 I want to talk something about a Shelty Blackheart. I'm really a big fan of Chelsea. You know, we've been since NXT. I thought she had some great matches with EO and, you know, those tag matches, you know, with Sasha and all that over on NXT. And I'm surprised she's getting pushed like this. I didn't expect this. And I thought, you know, as a baby face, I mean, if they would have kept their baby face, I was always worried she was just going to get lost in the shuffle. Like the one guy said last week, she would just get lost in the shuffle like Nikki Cross, basically.

1:37:20 You know, I really didn't see her going anywhere in the future as a babyface. Even though she was over, I mean, the crowd was really cheering for her last week and chanting her name against Charlotte. She was definitely over against Charlotte. But I don't think the character as a babyface was going anywhere. And a lot of that's WWE's fault. I don't think they really would have gave her...

1:37:45 as a baby face, a big push and a big chance. So now that they're turning her heel, maybe, I mean, they'll go all out with her depending on how she does. And I think tonight's promo, although maybe it sounded a little scripted, I'll admit that, but the intensity and the fire was there. And I felt like she brought it, like you guys said earlier, delivery-wise. And I want to see your cut promos in front of our live audiences as a heel. And then we'll really see if it works or not. You know, if she gets real comfortable like Bailey did, you know, because at first, remember Bailey, she wasn't really that comfortable on the mic. You know, she just didn't really sound that good. Then she got really,

1:38:28 really good as time went on. And that can happen with Chelsea. And, you know, I hope it does. And I hope she gets a big push. And I think working with Sasha, that'll be great. Sasha can help elevate her. But what do you think happens after she feuds with Sasha? I mean, who is left for her to feud with?

1:38:49 And when do you think the match with Shelty and Sasha happens?

1:38:52 I mean, the way WWE operates right now, and I'm still kind of recalibrating, I mean, I don't know that they... I mean, I was thinking, oh, they're setting up for a future date a tag match with the Viking Raiders and Happy Corbin and Mad Cat Moss, and then when they have the match after the break, I'm like, I'm just an idiot. Of course they're going to have it right now. They're not going to wait and build up to that. They've got to feed the beast. They've got to feed the TV shows with with things that are issues.

1:39:21 So I wouldn't be at all surprised. This is my way of saying I wouldn't be surprised if it's not on TV in a week or two. But otherwise, it could be Survivor Series. They can also do a series of matches. Sometimes feuds in WWE last longer. Rivalries last longer than we imagine they would. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. As for other possible opponents, I mean, Xia Li, Toni Storm, um, Aaliyah. I mean, those are possible Shotzi opponents after this. None are top tier stars cause they're just, you know, they're, they're don't have a lot of them. Um, Shayna Baszler could eventually turn baby face, you know, maybe she gets tired of being, you know, the, the, the, the thug for, for Sonya Deville. And I think she, her,

1:40:09 I think her best future is as a baby face. Um, so you could do that. Um, Natalya, who knows, she might end up being a baby face soon. You know what I mean? They, they bounce her around. So, I mean, there's, there's options. I mean, they're positioning people and pushing people in novel way in, in novel ways in the sense that a month ago you wouldn't have predicted it. Um, and so I'm not ruling anything out in terms of who, who gets elevated and we're kind of surprised by it or who gets cut and we're surprised by it. They're unpredictable right now.

1:40:39 Yeah. I, I, I think that the opponents you listed are, are the, the likely suspects. I mean, WWE sort of has a pattern, especially in the women's division, and that is to have a champion, have a main title challenger, and then if you have another major act who is not currently involved in the title picture, then they need a secondary feud. So they elevate a heel or a baby face temporarily, whoever they need to get into that position for the eventual contender to beat And then that contender moves on to challenge for the title. And the other woman inevitably falls down the card. And I think that's where Shotzi is right now. She is there to play the foil for Sasha Banks while they heat up Sasha to get ready to face Charlotte Flair. Now, again,

1:41:27 this is much like the tag division, like we talked about earlier with, with Umberto Carrillo and Angel Garza. History suggests that not much will come of this, that, that, Shotzi, like Garza and Carrillo, will fall back down the card after a few weeks when Vince gets bored. And, you know, maybe they cycle through the title picture very briefly, but very little happens with them overall. If I'm being, you know, an optimist and trying to see the positive spin on this, then what Wade mentioned could certainly be the case. You have other secondary feuds there. And you have some women waiting in the wings that can kind of fill that void and, and fill the, the opponent slot for Shotzi for a little while. But I, I just don't see that, that,

1:42:17 that is the most likely of scenarios. Unfortunately, I hope that I'm wrong. I always want to be wrong in these scenarios, but until they do it until I actually see it, I'm just going to assume that she's going to lose to Sasha. And then, you know, We'll see her in random match on SmackDown every couple of weeks.

1:42:41 Hey, everyone. Longtime PWTorch columnist Sean Radican here to let you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you understand the story better or see it another way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring on a special guest for the second half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas

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1:44:00 Mike, back to you.

1:44:02 Yeah, that worries me too. You know, she probably loses to Sasha. Yeah, she'll just have a match, just a random match like every other week, like you're saying. I hope that's not the case. But yeah, I worry about that too. I'm looking forward to the Chelsea, uh, Shasta matches and, uh, you know, Chelsea working as a heel.

1:44:23 That'll be interesting. You know, like, you know, doing like choke holds and stuff like that and see how well she is at being aggressive. You know, I'm looking forward to that. And, uh, hopefully that'll, that'll turn out good and she'll be, you know, a successful heel.

1:44:37 Sasha sold incredibly well for her last week. So I think that I I'm looking forward to that match too, if only because Sasha seems invested in this. I don't know what her and Shotzi's relationship is backstage or anything like that. But last week, man, Sasha was all in on making her look like a killer.

1:44:57 And that's what you want. And that's what the veteran women on this roster should want. You need opponents. You need to make people seem like a million bucks. And, you know, fair or unfair, you know, Charlotte's been criticized for being more selfish than was deemed prudent and kind before. um in some of her you know promos and matches and that's you know what manifested to to you know what what blew up a couple Fridays ago with Becky and you know I mean you got you got to have fresh opponents that's the the top stars know that they you know not all of them I mean I should say the top stars know the top stars know that some are good about about being generous and building up the next generation and others feel threatened or it

1:45:38 just doesn't um it's not in there they're not hardwired to be to be giving um you know but most are, and Sasha was.

1:45:48 I think there's a lot of legitimate criticisms to be had for Sasha Banks. But one thing that I don't think anyone can ever get on her for is how good she is at selling. She's a great seller. She always has been. I think it's one of, yeah, at times it even is over the top. But when she's really in it and she's at her best, She's one of the best in the business, male or female.

1:46:16 Yep.

1:46:17 Very good.

1:46:17 Mike, anything else for us?

1:46:23 Real quick on Naomi. It was mentioned on last week's show.

1:46:29 I forget.

1:46:29 I think it was Zach or his host said about how they don't view Naomi as like a future star. because of the way she is like they don't think she has it in the ring like let's say Sasha Charlotte Bailey like she never will like she'll never be on that level like she they say she's athletic but she really can't go in the ring to that point and that's what'll hold her back from being accessed in the future so um what are your guys thoughts on that you think Naomi will ever get a a time to shine? Like, does she really have it to be that big star like a Becky? What do you think?

1:47:14 I think you have to have, you know, you have to be like great at something to make up for being poor at something else. If there's, you know, three or four key categories to becoming a Becky Charlotte, Sasha level star, you've, you know, you gotta have at least something you're great at, or a few things you're good at to make up for what your shortcoming is. And I guess with Naomi, I'm just not sure what that management looks at and says, yeah, we can work with that despite that. Um, and she's getting a chance, but you know, she's been around a while and not caught on for a reason. And I think they're, they're, you know, I don't know how many people just think, yes, this is going to be a great match when they hear

1:47:57 she's in the ring. It's not like burying her. It's just, that's not what you think of. There's sort of a, sometimes a clunkiness or an awkwardness or a lack of crispness to some of what she does. But I also don't think her ring style is disqualifying. And I think there's enough there that I get why they kind of keep giving her you know, kind of start and stop pushes. So, you know, she's still here for a reason, but she's still where she is for a reason. Brandon, your take.

1:48:28 Yeah, definitely. I think with Naomi, there's definitely some incredible athleticism and they build some really cool spots for her. But to me, with her, it's always been about the spots. And I think of someone like Bianca Belair, who's similar in the sense that in Bianca Belair's matches recently, they've tried to give her big spots to really stand out and to kind of bring her along. And it's worked.

1:49:00 And the spots are really cool, the same way that Naomi has had some really cool spots in the past. The difference, though, I think, is that Belair has a stronger character, a more serious character. And she's a little bit better at the fundamentals in the ring. And she's caught on a lot quicker than someone like Naomi, who's been around for a long time and still comes off clunky.

1:49:23 And not to say Belair can't feel that way at times too, but you almost forgive it because she's so fresh and so new. And for Naomi to be this far in her career and kind of to still have that awkwardness, I think that that holds her back in a way. In 2021, where WWE tries its best to treat the women in the main event picture as equals to the men. Sometimes they're successful at that. Sometimes they're a little lackluster. But by and large, we're supposed to buy that the women's championship can and should headline in the same way that the men's title does. And that often requires 15, 20 minute main events. And That's something that you expect from Sasha Banks and Charlotte Flair and Becky Lynch and Bianca Belair. Now, that's not something that

1:50:15 I can see Naomi putting together. And maybe she could if she were ever given the opportunity. But I've never watched one of Naomi's matches and thought, man, this would just have been this would been a lot better if it was just a little bit longer. So I think that ultimately is what's going to hold Naomi back. For me, I think the most interesting thing for Naomi at this stage of her career would be a run with the bloodline.

1:50:46 And I'm hesitant to suggest it only because I think they're so strong at what they've done thus far. But I do think that it would be neat to see a woman in the fold and to see how Roman played off of her. And also to see her as a cocky heel that matches the personality of her husband, her brother in law and her cousin Roman. So I'd like to see it. But I also I say that with the caveat of understanding that it could go really poorly and make and make me enjoy something I love less.

1:51:26 You know that last segment you're just listening to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the options to listen commercial-free. And with upper-tier options, unlock our

1:52:05 VIP-exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week. All right, Mike, any closing words for us here?

1:52:18 Yeah, remember the one time Naomi was a heel, actually? like you think she played it good. I, I was actually, a lot of people didn't like that. I actually, uh, it was felt fresh to me. I actually enjoyed her as a heel. Actually, as far as I remember, she played the role pretty good. Did you guys, uh, remember that?

1:52:37 I remember, I remember when, when Sasha came in and they were in that stable with Tamina and I, I don't remember, I don't remember being too down on it, but, the focus was so heavily on establishing Sasha that I think I forgot a lot of what Naomi was doing there, but I don't remember being down on it.

1:52:57 I mean, it'd be an interest. I mean, they just turned Shotzi, although, you know, she was so new, but I mean, you know, you can always turn someone if you're looking to put them in a fresh, you know, in a fresh situation where their character doesn't feel as stale. I don't have a ton of recollection of feelings, feeling strongly either way, but as I think about it now, I mean, I can imagine... I can imagine that working in bringing something out in her a little bit more than we see now. But I mean, you know, she's on the roster. Make the best of who you have and who you're sticking with and figure that out. And that's why I'm just, you know, going full circle back to the original call on this. I'm along for the

1:53:35 ride and I want to see where we end up here. And I think Sonya is so strong interacting in mic work that it gives, it can carry and elevate Naomi's work. And I think there will be a crowd pop for when Naomi gets Sonya one-on-one in the ring if they get to that point. And I assume they are.

1:53:56 That's the thing that Naomi has always had going for her. She's always gotten a strong crowd reaction. She's always had the crowd behind her. That's sort of been the biggest part of that character.

1:54:08 Mike, thanks so much for calling.

1:54:12 Yeah, thanks a lot for taking my call, guys. You have a great night.

1:54:14 Absolutely, you bet. Javier apologizes for not being a call-in. He was planning to, and some stuff came up where he's got to be up super early in the morning. So if people are waiting around for Javier, I apologize for that.

1:54:26 I was waiting around for Javier.

1:54:27 Yes, yes, we miss him. And I don't know what happened to Kyle either. Kyle from Baltimore. I mean, our regulars, geez.

1:54:35 And I praise Sasha. I know.

1:54:37 That's what I was thinking when we were talking about her. I'm like, I want to go to Kyle next, and he's not here. Maybe he watched that he did. Eddie Kingston's CM Punk promo that was on in the background that I'm hearing good things about and want to see, and Anthony Bowens and Brian Danielson having a nice 9-10 minute match. Bowens is going to be, he already is good, but he was in the pink and black, kind of Bret Hart-esque, and I just think of him as a young excellence of execution. Everything he does is just so crisp.

1:55:07 He's just selling and being in the right place at the right time and having that little extra snap to what he does, kind of like Evan Bourne or Matt Seidel. early in his career where they're just that little something extra. And so I was waiting for what that third match rampage is going to be. And when I saw late today, they announced Brian Danielson against bones. I was like, this is going to be, there's going to be a test for bones, see what he can do. And so, yeah, maybe everyone's watching rampage, man.

1:55:33 How, how good has Brian Danielson been? It's just, it's just, it's such a joy. It's, it's so much fun to watch him and how clear it is that he's just having a the best time. I mean, it's, it's, it's so much fun.

1:55:49 Yeah, it is.

1:55:49 And, you know, we talk about giving back. Um, I think, uh, you know, Brian Anderson can give back to, you know, wrestlers who earn it, you know, you don't, and not, not just anybody gets a match with Brian Anderson, but if you've got, um, you know, if you've got a good reputation and a good body of work that you're building up, he can help elevate you. So, um, I think bones is somebody to keep an eye on Max Caster, the blast. He's just a personality leaps off the screen. Um, sometimes in ways where you're cringing a little. But, you know, the two of them bring different things. But there's a reason Bowens was in the ring with Bryan being given a 10 minute showcase tonight to show what he can do.

1:56:27 One of the things that shows the contrast between the two companies right now is just, you know, we're heading into a pay-per-view for AEW where two WWE guys are going to face each other in a number one contenders match. And It's a match that I don't know if we ever saw it in WWE, but if we did, you know, I forgot about it because, you know, everybody faces everybody and they don't really give much credence to one match over the other. And it feels huge. I mean, Miro versus Danielson feels feels huge. And to think that just a couple of years ago, that match just could have been thrown on Raw or SmackDown without even a second thought.

1:57:06 It's just it's crazy.

1:57:08 Yeah, they wrestled in a Money in the Bank qualifier match at the very least. I don't know how often they wrestled. But, yeah, they're in a different place now, and Miro's so good. Danielson's so good. I mean, you just think about who WWE had and now doesn't have and how different things could be. You know, the Aleister Black example and what Miro has done. I mean, I don't even think of him as Rusev anymore, to credit him.

1:57:35 And I was.

1:57:36 down on him as anyone with that whole video game, self-indulgent, lower card stuff. It's like, people are into video games. They have to realize not everybody is, and we don't want to hear about it. And, you know, don't build your national wrestling career in front of a million people around this sense that people who are into video games want to... who aren't into video games want to hear you talk about them because they don't. And now he's just reinvented himself, and wow.

1:58:00 It's just... Yeah, it's just been interesting to see how these guys... and and girls who who leave wwe fair in other avenues because it it really is it it hasn't been i'd like to say you know wwe got it wrong every time and and everyone who leaves there and goes off somewhere else proves wwe wrong like man they they miss the boat on this guy completely but that hasn't been the case it the it's, it's crazy to see.

1:58:29 Yes.

1:58:29 They have missed the boat on a lot of people. Miro being a perfect example, but there have been plenty of others where you see them outside of WWE and you're like, eh, it kind of makes sense.

1:58:40 But who, who of them has Tony Khan hired? Uh, I mean, he didn't, he didn't, he hasn't hired a white yet. So we don't know there. Um, you know, Ruby. So it was doing fine. Um, you know, I don't think she's like leaping off the screen as this amazing centerpiece. I mean, you know, for WWE, they could use, they certainly underutilized her, you know, going back to Miz Dow, D'Lo Brown, you know, some of those, those people left and it's just like, they went to impact and it's like, yeah, okay.

1:59:11 You know, and I, you know, Ryback didn't, you know, Ryback hasn't been, hasn't been hired. Braun Strowman hasn't been hired by Tony. So, I mean, yeah, I think just Tony's making some good calls so far on who he brings in and, you know, Impact sort of takes what they can get. And I get that and tries to make the best of it. And not that the names I mentioned were failures. It just was like, oh, it wasn't as big of a loss as I thought it might have been.

1:59:35 Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who, you know, you just know from the jump that WWE missed the boat on this guy and they're going to go be a huge star somewhere else. Jon Moxley, perfect example. I mean, anyone can see that Moxley is a star. And, you know, he was a star to some extent in WWE, but they squandered it. For the most part. And then there's the talent who and I think Ruby Soho maybe fits this bill the best. Someone who maybe people can now point to and see her in AEW and say, see, she wasn't all that the Internet made her out to be.

2:00:11 Except that I think for a lot of these people that the argument shouldn't have been this guy or this girl can carry the company. It's just that this guy or this girl can be a really strong, good hand in the mid card, occasionally working their way up to the top rather than a not being used at all or be being used as glorified enhancement talent to put over people who aren't working. And that's what someone like Ruby Riot or Ruby Soho was used as in WWE.

2:00:46 I think there's a lot more examples of those people overall. I mean, you can even point to somebody like something like FTR where, you know, they're not they're not even the top tag team in AEW. But man, are they great hands and man, are they good at what they do in their role? And in WWE, they're just the guys that go out and lose to New Day every week.

2:01:10 Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.

2:01:20 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

2:01:33 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP. uh brandon it was brought up in passing i don't think we commented uh much at length the uh ridge holland segment yeah um i mean it looks like they're setting something up with him and seamus and uh we haven't seen much on smackdown from seamus so far but he's another person who i thought had a really good year and you

2:02:23 add him to the mix and you know that looks good and i and i like and i like Rich Holland kind of saying, hey, this is somebody I look up to, and now what's next? I thought this was a good segment.

2:02:37 Yeah, I thought it was a little curious the way that they kind of brought Sheamus into the picture and bringing up the John Cena thing and that storied title match with the awkward table finish and all of that. but I'm curious to see where it goes. Do you get the sense that they're more going the direction of Holland playing the baby face to Seamus' heel, who doesn't want to involve himself with Holland, or maybe the other way around? Holland is sort of tricking Seamus, or do you get the sense more that it could be a tag team?

2:03:19 What I like about this is All three entered my mind. Because your question is right along the lines of my thinking. Is it this? Or is it this? Or is it this and then this? Because it's almost for sure going to be A, B, or C, followed by B, C, or A. They're either going to be enemies and become friends and then form a team. Or they're going to be friends. Yes, it's rinse and repeat with him. Or it's going to be Holland acts like he's... uh, that, that he looks up to him and Seamus buys in and they're both kind of a baby facing. And then there's, there's, there's a turn. Um, and it happens right away or later or yeah. Seamus just goes, who do you think you are fella? And Ridge is, you know, more sympathetic. Yeah.

2:04:08 It's just, I can talk it through and, and it was totally open for interpretation. And I think Holland showed good presence, uh, and the story felt kind of believable. He seems like a guy who would be looking up to Sheamus with his buddies, and you're thinking, what's he up to, or how's Sheamus going to react to this, and is it going to let him down? And I'm already into the story.

2:04:34 Yeah, I'm intrigued. It gives Sheamus something to do. I'm with you. I think that Sheamus has been great this year. Someone who... I've mentioned this on the post-show before. Sheamus is a guy who I... very rarely, if ever want to see in the main event. And as soon as he's in the main event, I start to groan and it seems like inevitably the program doesn't work very well, but he's one of my favorite guys to watch in the mid card. Uh, and it's been that way for years.

2:05:01 I just think he's a great hand who can have some great matches with a variety of opponents. And he he's not really built to be that company carrying heel, but man, is he great to have. Uh, and I think that Even in these later stages of his career, he's proven to be a really, really worthwhile piece and an important piece of the roster that they can sort of plug and play when they need him in certain scenarios. So, yeah, it's a great person for Ridge to mix up with his first go around on the main roster because he's a guy who I think needs someone like Seamus. Ridge Holland is someone who doesn't necessarily stand out at first glance when you hear him talk or when you see him.

2:05:46 or even when you see him wrestle particular opponents, but if they get him in the ring against Seamus, I think that they're going to beat the crap out of each other. And that is going to get some attention on Ridge. And conversely, if they team up, I think they're just going to be bruisers to whoever they face and that is going to accomplish the same thing.

2:06:08 So, yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, Seamus has the second, you know, the nose broken twice in short order. I give him plenty of time, but that does maybe create some, you know, a potential sympathetic angle. Once his nose won't rebreak doing the angle, um, you could have Holland, you know, act like a friend and turn on him. I think Seamus is a baby face makes more sense. My, if I'm to answer your question, honestly, I think Holland came across more like a heel or someone who I think is being, I'm, I'm suspicious. He's being sneaky and sinister. Um, and he's up to something. That's the vibe I got.

2:06:44 So if they're going for that, that's what I interpreted, but it doesn't rule out it was sincere, and I'm just cynical. But I think Sheamus as a babyface makes more sense at this point.

2:06:53 Yeah, and it's been a long time since Sheamus has been a babyface too, and I just finished talking about how I don't typically enjoy Sheamus in the main event. The one exception to that was his babyface world title run, which it wasn't the best. It wasn't the greatest world title run by any means, but I thought it worked.

2:07:11 I thought it worked as the secondary him being the secondary sort of world champion. And he was certainly over with the crowd at that time. I thought he was entertaining. He had a lot of good matches. I think he gave Alberto Del Rio some of his some of his better matches in WWE, even though, you know, it wasn't a it wasn't a feud that, you know, knocked my socks off or anything, but it was enjoyable for what it was. So, yeah, I would not mind seeing Sheamus take on a baby face role.

2:07:40 For a while.

2:07:41 And I think with the year he had, people would be more receptive to it, and there does come a point where you're just around long enough, like Cena, where people are like, all right, we didn't like you. We resisted, but you persevered, and now we'll acknowledge that you paid your dues. You let us boo you or whatever, and now you've put in the work.

2:08:00 Um, so I think they could have, I think they could have done it coming out of the Drew McIntyre feud if they had wanted to just because they beat the crap out of each other just so frequently that I think they could have done it.

2:08:11 Yeah.

2:08:11 And I could see, you know, I mean, Seamus and Drew, you know, they're in social media taking pictures of each other at like national predator games and stuff. They're, they're pals and they're on the same brand now. You could see them associating with each other in a feud with the Usos or something like that, which then leads to Drew and Reigns. But then after that, or before that, as a setup or afterwards, Sheamus and Reigns. Because I kind of want to see Sheamus against Reigns. Sheamus as a babyface against Roman can be good. And I think Sheamus, the thing I like about Sheamus is he just seems sure of who he is now. And he's kind of aged into and earned through his tenure, the ability to be confident and have it be believable as opposed to

2:08:55 who do you think you are? And I think fans are willing to, are ready to embrace him. And he's just, he's had some good bangers, you know, so go have more and do it to Roman and have Roman sell and have the Usos freak out and have Heyman look worried. And, you know, you can get, you can get some, you can get a couple of pay-per-views.

2:09:14 Out of that.

2:09:15 Yeah, I think that that's a really good that's a really good, you know, be pay-per-view and not to not to discredit Seamus or anything. I think it's a good view to have, you know, sort of your off months when you have the smaller pay-per-views. I also I always it's a little hard now if we if we cast Seamus in that baby face role, considering, you know, where where he's at. But I I've always been really interested to see Lesnar and Seamus, too. I.

2:09:41 Yes, I think that'd be a blast. And by the way, if Seamus leaves WWE and goes to AEW and he shows up as a heel, um, there's some fun matches there. So, and, and actually you could show up as a baby face and take on a heel Kenny, but I think it makes more sense if Kenny's a baby face. Um, and, and just, I, cause I'm just kind of, it just feels like two worlds colliding who, you know, oil and water, like how can these two even coexist in the ring?

2:10:03 Cause they're from such different worlds, but I think they could have a good match. And there's a list of other wrestlers who would be good. Some, you know, size-wise because of AW pushing, thankfully, people who don't have to be, you know, six foot one or taller. Not all are great matchups, but, you know, as Daniel Bryan showed, you can, you know, Sheamus can make it work.

2:10:23 Is Miro the first, like, tried and true WWE discovered talent to jump over? That hasn't, I mean, granted, someone like Christian, yeah, he comes from WWE, but he's worked other places in between stints, but Someone at the level of Seamus, like who, you know, Seamus is a WWE guy through and through like Miro Rusev was a WWE guy.

2:10:48 Have there been any others?

2:10:50 There haven't been many period.

2:10:52 You know what I mean?

2:10:53 Like, I mean, WWE, whether they want to admit it or not are full of people who worked indie shows first.

2:10:57 Sure.

2:10:58 Yeah.

2:10:59 I think, I think he is. I'm just kind of thinking about the names.

2:11:03 Yeah.

2:11:03 I mean, I just think like, you know, they're granted. I don't think that it would ever happen. The biggest of that bunch obviously would be, a John Cena given his, uh, his, his, his newfound relationship with, with Warner. But, uh, yeah, just thinking through it, I don't think there has there. I think Rusev's the only one.

2:11:21 Yeah.

2:11:22 All right, Brandon, we will, uh, and there tell people how they can follow you on social media and what they will find there.

2:11:27 Yeah, sure. You can follow me at B LeClaire 12 on Twitter, um, and, uh, talking wrestling and some movies, some music, uh, football, given that we're, we're, We're deep in the season now. So, yeah, a bunch of a bunch of different things. I've got a bunch of different hobbies. Wrestling and football tend to take up most of my time during the during the fall months.

2:11:52 But, yeah, you can follow me on Twitter at the Wade Keller and follow our brand at P.W.

2:11:59 Torch.

2:12:00 Thanks, everybody. Go VIP. Listen to a Tony Khan interview and so much more is waiting for you there. We appreciate your support. PWTorch.com slash go VIP.

2:12:11 Check.

2:12:11 Oh, VIP members, by the way, will get to hear Tyler Sage and Joel Donnell doing a post show this week with Tyler Sage covering tonight's Rampage. And I am looking forward to watching the show for a variety of reasons. This sounds like a good episode. And like I said, I had it on in the background. And so, yeah, look for that. If you're a VIP member, I know we cover SmackDown here on Friday nights and wish we could do a rampage too, but with the overlap we don't.

2:12:38 And that's where Tyler and his Mexico hosts do. So we make that a VIP exclusive too, as a thank you for those of you who support us through a subscription and VIP membership. Uh, Brandon, as always, it's blast. Thanks. And we'll talk to you very soon.

2:12:50 Yeah.

2:12:51 Thanks so much for having me. Uh, glad to be here. Always a fun time.

2:12:54 Excellent. Thanks to our callers and our emailers and all of our listeners until next time on behalf of Brandon, Wade Keller signing off. Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial-free. A nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on a commercial-free listening experience.

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