5 YRS AGO RAW POST-SHOW: Becky gets cheered after turning heel, Austin Theory's potential push, Big E attacking Owens, Belair's future, more

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1:35 Now, PW Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.

1:44 Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show. It's our five years ago raw flashback going back to the November 1st, 2021 post show. Zach Adorn guest hosted for me. So it's a doubleheader, Zach Adorn today, because he was my guest co-host on today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast flagship, an all-new episode that we recorded earlier today on our Blue Logo Show. And Zach was joined by Nate Lindberg from PWT Talks NXT. They discussed with live callers and an on-site correspondent and reacted to emails the future of Becky Lynch as a heel. After a positive crowd reaction during her title defense, Becky leading into crowd results, where Bianca Belair goes moving forward, Seth Rollins' first night as

2:22 number one contender, the pros and cons of Big E attacking Kevin Owens, the potential elevation of Damian Priest and Austin Theory, T-Bar's strong match, remember him, and more. So let's get to it. Again, this originally live streamed on November 1st, 2021. It's today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.

2:38 Five years ago, raw flashback for Tuesday, November 3rd, 2026.

2:43 So, Nate, the WWE Championship picture is coming into focus, I'd say, with the new Raw roster. We've got Big E. He's firmly and definitively at the top of the show and at the top of the men's division as WWE. wwe champion we know seth rollins is going to challenge him for the wwe championship soon enough after winning uh the ladder match last week but he tried to to get a match out of him tonight but rollins said he wasn't fit to wrestle and then and then we have you know kevin owens who's been hovering around uh you know the the the picture, if you will. Tonight, he wrestled Big E in kind of a very baby-faced way.

3:26 The match came together with Kevin Owens basically walking out during the Big E and Seth promo and saying, hey, if you two aren't going to fight Big E, I'll take a chance. But then with the show and how everything went down, you kind of had Kevin Owens go back on his word a little bit, although he said that he'd Didn't do it on purpose, kind of took Seth's help. Seth gets involved in the match, kind of punches Big E in the face, and Kevin Owens kind of uses that to try to get a win. He doesn't get it, but kind of shades of a potential, you know, whose side is Kevin Owens really on story tonight, Nate?

4:04 we'll talk about Biggie and Seth in a minute here, but just, I wanted to get your thoughts on Kevin Owens in particular. I mean, you're, what'd you think of his presentation tonight? What did you think of the willy or won't he with, with Seth?

4:16 All right, so with all of that said, as I said to you right before we went on the air, I did miss the last two minutes of the show. I switched to Sling TV this week, and I cut off right before Kevin Owens started talking. So I don't exactly know his body language and stuff during that. However, throughout the rest of it, there were little hints to me that there might be– Maybe like a Kevin Owens heel turn or something where he might not necessarily be in Big E's corner. One of the things that really stood out to me tonight was during that initial promo with Kevin Owens and Kevin Owens, Big E and Seth Rollins.

5:03 kevin owens said something along the lines of he was a man of integrity right and i'm like really integrity integrity you okay and all i could think of was you know the sammy zane's turn the the festival of friendship and you know all of that stuff and i'm like yeah man of integrity and there were just kind of little things like that uh that was the biggest one but there were just little things like that kind of sprinkled like through that story um so i i don't know maybe that's kind of like what i'm thinking and kevin owens he's been he's been kind of leaning babyface lately and kind of I want to say a realist type of a gimmick where he's kind of coming out, like just spewing facts and stuff and, and kind of

5:46 letting the people naturally get behind him. And I kind of think that maybe potentially with some of those breadcrumbs that they're throwing in tonight, we might see a little bit of a turn for him or, or a full blown turn for him throughout the course of this feud. But that, that's just my first impression anyway. Yeah.

6:01 Yeah.

6:02 I'm really curious to get, you know, obviously, you know, the caller's taste on this too, because I think you could have taken it both ways. Like at the, at the end of the, the, the show, cause, cause you kind of, like you said, you, you miss part of it. Well, Kevin Owens is kind of pleading his case to Biggie that he didn't, he didn't do it on purpose. He got, you know, they bumped heads and they were kind of knocked out. Like he was just feeling fuzzy. And I, you know, There is some sympathy in that if you are on Kevin Owens' side and you're kind of taking him at face value because Big E does drop him with the big ending as the show went off the air.

6:38 And so I'm curious as to what the overall take is as far as the callers go in terms of how they viewed that because I think you can look at that and go, wow. All right. Biggie serious to the point. Biggie, he knows that he's being a smart baby face.

6:51 Right.

6:51 He knows the history of Kevin Owens. He knows not to not to trust what he what Kevin Owens says. All right. I'm going to drop him before before he drops me. On the other hand, you know. you know, there was a part of that. I think you could analyze as like, wow, Biggie, that's, that was kind of mean. He was kind of apologizing to you and, and, and, and openly, you know, saying he was sorry. And so I'm with you, Nate. I think that there is some, some baggage there. And, you know, usually Vince McMahon and WWE booking don't do something just to do it. There's typically, you know, a reason for it. And then they beat you over the head with that reason after week after week. So, um, I think there's something more to this and we'll have

7:33 to see. But I don't but I don't hate it, though, Nate. I don't hate, you know, presenting Kevin Owens as a potential up and coming challenger. Biggie needs strong heel opponents to face like he needs, you know, guys to defend his championship against. I think Seth Rollins is a good first opponent right out of the gate. But then you got to pivot somewhere. And so setting the table like this with Owens, whether he's with Seth or not, Owens is a heel, I think makes sense long term.

7:59 Absolutely. Owens is an amazing heel. Everything he's done as a heel, I think, has stuck, at least in my mind, much more so than things he's done. you know, uh, actually, I guess one of the big, one of the coolest things he's ever done as a face was show up at war games. That was really cool. But, um, you know, but that aside, um, you know, he, he, in my opinion, he plays the best, he is the best character of himself when he is heel. Um, and I think he would be a fantastic foil for, uh, for biggie. Um, uh kevin he obviously he's former universal champion i think he probably could have another you know universal or wwe title run in him uh at least i hope he does before he his time with the company is over

8:49 whenever that will be um but i i do i i agree with you i think this is uh this is a great first couple feuds for biggie with this new raw roster uh and kind of the whole new uh just kind of So I like it.

9:04 What did you make of the promo segment with, with Biggie and Seth Rollins? This is the first time, you know, they're kind of in the ring together. Obviously they're building towards a match. We don't know when it's, when it's coming because they've got, they've got survivor series on the horizon. So I don't, depending on what the format is for that show, who knows if they'll be wrestling each other. But, you know, I thought it was a good like first interaction.

9:27 I thought Big E really he's, he's really finding that balance of being himself and showcasing his personality, but showcasing it in a way that's serious. And that shows that he wants to win matches and, and stay the champion. And I thought that just, kind of contrasted seth well and sets obnoxious over the top you know the laugh i i i thought that they the two of them had some chemistry there and i think obviously they can have a good match together but the question for me was can they can they hype this thing up can they can they, can they talk? And you know, I thought they, they succeeded in that, in that tonight.

10:06 What'd you think?

10:08 I would certainly agree with you. I like the chemistry the two of them had together. Big E is– and this is something we were talking about back when he was the Intercontinental Champion, what, like a year ago or however long ago that was, when they were first starting to push him as a singles competitor. And he just– he kind of– it just felt like something was missing.

10:30 He felt like he couldn't quite– Um, hold his own as a singles competitor, at least in my mind. Um, he eventually did obviously, and he came to, but at first, anyway, he, he, he was kind of just lacking a little something. I think a lot of that was in his promo skills and he was just trying to find his way as a singles competitor and not a member of that wacky zany new day stable. Um, which I did. I don't say that in a bad way. I love the new day.

10:55 I say that with all the respect in the world. Um, but I think he was trying to find his own. And tonight I, I got that. I feel like he has come into his own. He's, he's certainly presenting himself as a serious champion, but certainly still has those shades of comedy and a new day in him. Um, I like that. I like the fact that he stood up for both Kofi and Woods when Seth Rollins kind of started to– he called Kofi Manny a joke and he called King Woods a joke. I forget exactly what he called them, but he essentially insulted both of them. And Big E would not allow his friends to be bad-mouthed.

11:35 I thought that was great. That is a man of integrity right there, my friends. um so yeah i'm all for that seth rollins uh yeah seth rollins he's from the obnoxious suits every week which i absolutely adore i thought they were stupid at first but man every week they like they're fantastic they just get zanier and weirder i love them um but he's playing he is he's playing an absolutely fantastic obnoxious heel the laugh um everything is is is great so i think Just a simple fact that these two haven't really ever had any sort of singles interaction before. That certainly adds some intrigue to the match for me as well. And I am I'm looking forward to seeing where this where this kind of plays out and see how how Big E can overcome

12:20 Seth Rollins. I don't think I don't think Big E is going to lose a belt this early in his run. So it'd be cool to see how how he overcomes Seth Rollins and where this feud actually goes.

12:31 Yeah, absolutely. Well said. All right, let's pause there for a quick second and set the table for the show, and then we'll start taking calls here, open up the phone lines. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show covering the November 1st, 2021 edition of Monday Night Raw. Yes, folks, it's already November. Crazy to say. I'm PW Torts Assistant Editor Zach Haydorn filling in for Wade. side of things a little bit later on tonight running down the show on the Wade Keller hotline it's for VIP members every single day and you can go VIP by heading to pwtorch.com slash go VIP that's pwtorch.com slash go VIP and check out the Wade Keller hotline and a multitude of other really really great podcasts from Very, very talented host. It's

13:20 all there for you at PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. The other voice you hear with me tonight is that of Nate Lindberg from the PWTorch Daily Cast PWT Talks NXT show. Nate, great to have you back, man. Always fun to talk a little wrestling with you.

13:37 Absolutely. Good to be here. Glad to be talking something a little bit different than NXT 2.0 because I haven't been super high on it as of 2.0. So it's kind of nice to get out of that. And I actually really enjoyed the show tonight, which is something I haven't been able to say about Raw recently either. So glad to be here and glad to be talking about it.

13:56 Yeah, fantastic. And maybe a little bit later we can get a little teaser analysis of NXT 2.0 coming out of Halloween Havoc just to get you out in the open and running on what you do best. A challenging show, I would imagine, to analyze these days. I think it's just hard to look at that, knowing what they're putting out there. You can't really look at it the same way that you've been watching NXT for so long.

14:26 You absolutely can't. And it's like every week we're sitting there going, okay, you know, this could happen, but well, maybe not because we don't really know where they're going and they're kind of going a new direction. And, and it more often than not, it seems like the more predictable outcome is the way they go. But, but still, you know, they've kind of thrown us some curve balls.

14:43 So I'm, I'm, I'm not going to throw it away yet. I'm, I'm, I'm still into NXT 2.0. And I'm just kind of hoping they can, they can suck me in a little bit more down the line.

14:54 Yeah, very good. Well, maybe we can do it a little bit later, but the phone lines are open. 347-215-8558. That's 347-215-8558. Press one. If you're in the caller queue and you want to get on the air, just press one flags you on the switchboard and lets me know that you want to talk. The email bag is open as well. You can send us an email. Wade Keller podcast at gmail.com. That's Wade Keller podcast at gmail.com. We'll get to that a little bit later. Um, we're going to get to our first call here, Nate, but, but you've been to some of that. I wanted to kind of get your high level thoughts on it and just said, Hey, this was, this was a good show tonight. And I thought so too. I thought it top to bottom. I

15:35 thought it flowed well. I thought there was some good wrestling. I thought that there. with some characters that got some clear elevation within some matches, Damien Priest, T-Bar in particular, never thought I'd say the, the, under the phrase, Hey, T-Bar had a good match tonight, but man, he, he really did. And Priest too. So I, I also really liked the formatting of how they got into Bianca Belair versus Becky Lynch. I mean, that was the opening match seems like an eternity ago, but they, they both had promo time right before to kind of like frame up the match and, and, why it's important to them and why they wanted to win. I thought that was really smart to kind of hook viewers right out of the gate.

16:14 It made it seem like it was a really big match, which it is on paper, but a lot of times WWE will trot those matches out and not give them proper context in the show to tell everybody that, hey, this is really important. I thought they did that here. And same thing with Kevin Owens and Big E a little bit later. You had segments backstage throughout the show that built up to that main event so i i thought raw was more than serviceable tonight and and well put together and feature some really good stuff um throughout the three hours but but just your take on it on the overall holistic show Sure.

16:48 So one of the things that you just said was there were quite a few segments of the course of the show that kind of led up to Big E and Kevin Owens and just multiple stories throughout the show. And one thing that I absolutely love in a wrestling show is one story, one or two stories that kind of weave themselves in throughout the course of the entire show.

17:09 um you know something that might happen at the beginning and you know and you kind of get some some of those bullet points and those plot points and they finally culminate at the end of the show uh that's like my kind of personal favorite thing to happen and you're absolutely right that's what happened here tonight uh with with Big E and Kevin Owens so I thought that was a great way to present that um right off the gate with that match with Becky and Bianca I don't remember I don't have I don't have a report up right now to get the exact match time but um I mean that was at least like 25 minutes or so how often do we start a raw just right with action like that right off the bat now great together with some promos and stuff with them to

17:45 kind of hype that up before we got into the action but still um we don't often just jump into a major match like that um just to kick off raw i mean how many times we had you know stuck through a 15 minute well i was a triple h promo that was a long time ago but you know what i you know what i mean right yeah um And so I thought that was a great way to start the show. Um, and I definitely, you, you, you called it out and I definitely wanted to call out the match between Damien Priest and T-Bar as well.

18:13 And I'm going to say Dominic Dijakovic. I can't say T-Bar, man. I can't, I can't do it. Uh, but I thought like that was actually one of my more favorite matches of the night. Um, and I was, uh, uh, in a way surprised just because of the way they especially presenting t-bar but and i'm also not surprised because die jack is an amazing amazing talent as is damian priest um but i'm just glad they got the time in there tonight to pull off uh pull off what they did like i said overall i thought it was a great show um and it did not actually feel like a three-hour slug to me tonight which uh doesn't typically happen when i'm watching a monday night raw yeah.

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19:26 Oh, absolutely. I definitely agree. And yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the... I'm sure we'll talk about it a little bit later with callers too, but what... If anything, the match does for T-Bar. I think I think his the name, the look, just everything about the character and gimmick itself really is low card at best. But man, you watch him in there. to have a match. I mean, he still is a big guy. He still fits, you know, the mold of what Vince McMahon is looking for in terms of, in terms of that. And so you never know what kind of a hard hitting mass like this can, can do for somebody and priests, um, you know, again, I'm sure we'll get in to go along with this new, the new personality. And I thought, uh, both those guys

20:12 delivered and gave priest the performance that he needed to kind of anchor the new, uh, the new gimmick. So more, more on that later, Nate, but let's, um, let's, let's roll in with our, with our first call here.

20:24 All right.

20:24 Um, four, four, three, we, we will, uh, we'll start with you four, four, three, go ahead and state your name and where you're calling us from tonight.

20:34 Hey, it's Kyle from Baltimore.

20:35 How are you doing?

20:36 Hey, Kyle.

20:36 Doing good. Thanks for calling. Always a pleasure to talk to you after these shows, man. What did you think of Raw tonight?

20:43 Yeah.

20:45 Yeah, again, it was a really good show. The three hours kind of flew by, which rarely happens for me where I felt like it was really a good episode and really a good roster. You know, as I said, Raw has a lot of great people on this show that they drafted, so that's why I expected to have some issues, I feel like, but whatever. I always get to the beginning of a year right from before it already started off, really how Becky and Bianca was like, okay, here we go. We're going off already. And I kind of like it when it starts with a match and I'm talking because I hate them talking. Because I get it, but it's repetitive. So just get to the rest of it.

21:22 So glad I did that. The match was great. It was, you know, a great match. And throughout the, I think it's Becky's phone backstage saying that the fans were booing her.

21:34 To know, she still gets cheered. So where is the status?

21:37 She gets booed.

21:38 I mean, maybe a little bit, but she mainly gets cheered.

21:40 So that part I'll get, but the entire match is great.

21:44 I don't know where Bianca goes from here at this point.

21:45 At this point, I think Bianca needs.

21:47 To move on.

21:48 Clearly what they saw today with Liv Morgan, it was like, yes, thank you. Liv and Becky, they kind of are kind of I remember before Liz said before about an interview she said that she had with Becky when she hugged her to congratulate her on being pregnant, said that she's going to be a champion one day, and she never did.

22:09 And so that's kind of something they can go off of, something like that.

22:12 I know people.

22:13 Probably know that part, but that's what I want to get behind. And where Bianca goes from here, I don't know. But we can think about all that.

22:20 Yeah, great topics. Nate, so... A couple things. Let's first talk about Becky Lynch in particular because tonight, you know, she gets the win. I was glad that they didn't do kind of like a– I mean, yes, they did a bit of a shenanigan finish, but at least it was a finish, you know, for better or worse. I think– I don't think, you know, Bianca loses– that much losing this match, losing to Becky Lynch. I think that the, I think the journey now is back to the top.

22:49 And when she gets that win, if presented the right way, it's going to be, it's going to be a really big deal, but it begs the question, you know, Obviously, they're going to pivot in the short term to something with Liv Morgan. I think you look at Survivor Series, depending on the format of that show, like I said, you're looking at a potential Becky versus Charlotte match, which I think has added intrigue because of the backstage happenings from a couple weeks ago. But she's in this position where she is getting cheered. I think clearly tonight, maybe for the first time ever, and correct me if I'm wrong on for sure he'll come out because it wasn't her just healing on her opponent she was talking about

23:35 the fans you know that they they were with her for her rise and then they abandoned her right like so she's now that's like classic WWE heel you know bells and whistles alarms going off hey she's definitely a heel now she's insulting the audience I think that's the first time she did that so she's firmly planted in that space and now is going to pivot to Liv Morgan I mean I It's going to come down to Nate.

23:59 I think how just. these these cheers into into booze like how how talented can Becky Lynch be we know that she's super talented but sometimes you know it's it's you can't overcome that that tidal wave and WWE had to know this was coming with people wanting to cheer her after her being away for over a year so I throw to you Nate your thoughts on Becky can this heel turn thing actually work is Liv Morgan sympathetic enough to help bring it out of her.

24:30 So I think it certainly can work, but I think it's going to be an uphill battle. Um, yeah, like I know everything that Becky's doing right now. I mean, I'm, I'm cheering her. I think she's doing a fantastic job. And that's part of the problem too, is like, if a heel does a really good job being a heel, like sometimes you just want to cheer them cause they're doing such a great job. Um, you know, and obviously if they're really doing their job, you know, you obviously want to boo them. But, um, I, uh, I think it can, it can work, but she's really going to have to put in some, some effort to get the crowd against her. You know, where she mentioned tonight, you know, half the crowd is booing. It was certainly was not

25:11 half the crowd. It was a heck of a lot less than that. But I mean, that was, it was certainly, if not the first, one of the first times that she's kind of started to turn against the crowd. I want to say she did it on SmackDown like before the brand split, but don't quote me on that. Yeah. But so it's certainly one of the first times that she's she's kind of gone up against the crowd here.

25:32 But I think it certainly can work. A heel Becky Lynch's is I mean, obviously, it's kind of what started to rocket her into the man character. And so we know she can do it. We know she can do it well. I just don't know if the fan base is going to want to see that, you know, and, and like you said, that title wave comes and WWE, they can present something as much as they want, but if the fans want to cheer for these people, they, they want to cheer for Becky, you know, that they may end up having to pivot.

26:03 Yeah.

26:04 And, but we'll, we'll obviously we'll see live Morgan, I think is going to be a good challenger for Becky. I'm, I don't know if, If she's going to be sympathetic enough to get people to turn on Becky either, though, you live live to me. She's I think she's a great talent, but she doesn't seem main event level for me.

26:25 And.

26:27 She just get me probably upper mid card. You could probably obviously dance with the main main event scene, as we're seeing here. But I don't see her as a credible, credible threat. So unless something happens like really something happens in the next week or two that that really pivots Liv Morgan into being a credible threat for her. who's arguably one of the most popular people in the company at Becky Lynch. Um, I don't know if she's going to be able to be that person to make Becky that much of a hated heel to get people to boo her and get people kind of on the side that WB wants them on. Um, so, but with all of that said, I, I get to admit, I, I'm loving everything she's doing. I think she's doing a great job. Um,

27:16 but unfortunately it's just not getting the reaction that WB wants.

27:19 Um, Honestly, I think Liv Morgan is going to have some issues here. I like the idea to feature somebody fresh in the title picture, I guess. There's nothing wrong with that. They're kind of trying it on SmackDown with Shotzi and her heel turn going up against Sasha. I have no problem with the attempt, but you know, Becky not being, I don't want to say she's not over because obviously she's over, but people aren't buying her, but universally buying the heel turn right now. And so you're going to have Liv Morgan, this baby face character who's fresh in that, on that level of the card going up against Becky Lynch, who's just not firmly planted as a heel yet. And I think that's going to hurt Liv. Now,

28:11 maybe Becky can bring the best out of her. Maybe not, but I think it's going to be hard for Liv Morgan as a fresh face at the top of the women's division, at least for a little while here to, if Bianca Belair couldn't do it right. Like I think Liv Morgan, the expectations have to be lower, lower for her.

28:28 So we'll see. But yeah, it kind of an interesting, an interesting thing to watch here and to back to your comment, Nate, about the gimmick, the man gimmick. It's like, I almost feel like if Becky– because people like that stick so much. They like the bombasticity of her character. They like the confidence that borderlines almost arrogance. I mean that was rooted in her rise to the top, and I think that's synonymous with that time with the audience.

28:58 It's almost like– if she really wants to be a heel, she kind of has to stop it with, with that, even though that's kind of like the tried and true heel characteristics and heel mannerisms within that act. I think people enjoy seeing her do it so, so much, especially because they haven't seen it in so long that it pops the audience. And I think if you shut that all down and just went a different direction with the character or like just a different tweak on the man act, um, That maybe that would hook more people into to actually boo her, because right now I just think she's she is enjoyable. And the man thing, while there's pieces of it that are heel in nature, she's always pulled it off in a baby face way. that people like to see.

29:41 So she could be, she could be in for a bit of a gimmick tweak too. If she really wants to put all her eggs in the heel basket.

29:49 Hey everyone.

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31:06 Absolutely. And, you know, one of the one of the things that's come to mind and in just what you were saying, but it's also come it came to mind even tonight watching, watching that second promo that she had backstage. She put on the glasses and that really cool shirt with the shoulder pads or whatever she was wearing. I thought that was pretty sweet. She must be shopping at the same place Seth's shopping at. But what really came to mind was Stone Cold when they tried to turn him heel doing the two-man power trip with Triple H.

31:36 And the defining moment there is he's a heel. He's got him and Triple H and Lita in the ring, and they start beating Lita with the chair, and the crowd starts cheering because Stone Cold is– you know, stone cold and he's doing heel things and he's always done heel things. And he became, you know, an anti-hero essentially.

31:57 And I feel like that was kind of the same way in a, in a, a little bit of a different way, but it with the man character it was a bit of an anti-hero character um you know and so she could play that arrogant um and and kind of heelish character but in a in a baby face way now you're trying to pivot it in a heel a heel way this kind of unconventional character in a heel way and people just want to continue to cheer it because it's very similar to what they had Or what she was doing as a babyface. So, yeah, I definitely I definitely agree with you there. If she wants to really you get the people against her, it's got to be a real big pivot. And by doing that big pivot, you've run that risk of like, you know,

32:43 losing losing people behind you, losing the fans behind you because they want to see. what they want to see, you know, if WWE, hopefully WWE would let her go back to doing that eventually. But, uh, but yeah, I don't know. We'll see obviously where that goes, but, um, you know, I would worry about it if they did do a huge pivot like that, if fans would start to maybe kind of, uh, care less about her.

33:06 Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, it's a risk for sure. You know, they know the man thing works. And so, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's, yeah, it's almost like kind of like, Becky's a good enough performer, like you said, to pull this off. I mean, I don't think there's any doubt about her abilities to do that. It's just that is she going to be able to bring the audience with them? And that's why I think it was kind of– I still go back to that SummerSlam turn where it's like, man, you have to– Give the fans at least a little bit of time to live with the returning Becky Lynch character as a babyface, just so they can, at the very least, even if turning her heels, the ultimate plan, let them get this kind of cheering

33:47 for her out of their system a bit, you know, and then and then. do the pivot but to have it all come at once you know obviously I think they they rushed it maybe some circumstances changed that but now now they have to live they have to live in the world they created so um so we're stuck with with with what we have here and it's on it's on Becky really to to try and pull off and live too to try to you know pull that heel that heel persona out of her um Bianca Belair and then we'll get back to Kyle here in a second so Belair Moves over to Raw. She kind of loses this opportunity. Obviously, it wasn't it was not clean because she ran to the the uncovered ring post and gets rolled up. So Nate, where does Bianca go from here?

34:33 I'm kind of with Kyle on this on the surface that, hey, I think it's time for her to... You can't keep going back to Bianca versus Becky over and over and over again. I think now is a good time to pivot her away from that with Survivor Series coming into focus. Maybe she... you know, leads team raw or something into, into survivor series as the captain for the women's team on raw, it gives her a prominent, prominent positioning. She's still featured as a face of the brand, but not in the title picture. And then, you know, come Royal rumble time, you can kind of get her back there.

35:07 But I think it was a good showing for her in the ring. She certainly still is somebody that's going to be is featured. I mean, that match was, Like, yes, Becky won it. But man, a lot of it was for Bianca Belair. She had her moments and her time to show off her athleticism and all the lifts that she did. And like just just, you know, the way that Becky sold for her and bump for her. Like it's still, I think, very much about Bianca Belair, at least at this point. But a rest from the title picture, especially after losing it, I think is not not the worst thing in the world. But where does Bianca go, Nate?

35:44 So that's a good question I've actually got the list of the female roster for Raw up on my screen right now and I'm going up and down this very small list of female wrestlers and I'm kind of thinking to myself like I don't know you know so Asuka was one of the first people that came to mind and I know she's out right now with an injury the other person that came to mind she's been kind of absent for a while but she was drafted to Raw and I don't think we've seen her on raw.

36:15 I could be wrong. Cause I haven't watched every single episode of Ross since the draft, but I around um and i would i would love to see mia yim debut on the main roster as mia yim not reckoning but as mia yim um and i think that could be that could be a great uh opponent for bianca belair in kind of like a rebuilding story if you will like um because like i don't necessarily think bianca belair is going to come out and be like you know what i i I lost and kind of be dejected and everything. I think she's going to try and spin it as a positive that– because that's just the nature of her character. She's a fighter, right? So she always fights from underneath and tries to do her best and come out victorious, and I feel like she's probably

37:00 going to try and– she's probably going to spin– these losses into a positive and try to build herself back up, um, you know, to get back into the title picture down the road. Um, but she's going to need some competitors to do that. Like I said, Mia Yim sounds, uh, sounds good to me. Um, cause like everybody else that's on the roster here, they were all involved in other things throughout the course of the night with the exception of Alexa bliss. So it was, is not on, uh, not on the show. Um, but on the Raw women's roster.

37:28 But everybody else, Zelina Vega, Carmella, Doudrop, Dana Brooke, Liv Morgan, Nikki Ash, Tamina, they were all all involved in other things throughout the course of the show so that's a good question where does Bianca Belair go from here um and to be honest with you I don't uh I don't know exactly who her next opponent would be um but I I would like to see her kind of go into a um uh like a I keep, I keep calling it a rebuilding phase and it's not really what I mean, but, um, you know, kind of recognize the fact that she lost these, these high profile matches.

38:06 She lost her belt. Even if this was a little bit of a small schmoz finish here where she got her face, you know, uh, right into the, uh, exposed turnbuckle, which by the way, why isn't that a DQ? That's, I feel like that should be a DQ, but it, it is what it is. And, uh, well, I'll get into that when we get into Austin theory versus Ray. Um, but, uh, um, But yeah, you know, so where she did lose in a bit of a schmoz, like she can still kind of hold her head up high.

38:34 No.

38:35 And hey, you know, I didn't lose clean. But but yeah, I'm not 100 percent sure where she's going to go from here. Just looking up and down the roster as it is, as it stands right now.

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39:17 Yeah, I think it is tough to see that. I mean, there's some options out there. I mean, Asuka and Bianca Belair, that would certainly be interesting as a holdover future. I think, obviously, Survivor Series, you know, you kind of have a one-month buffer, right? Because if you're going to do some kind of elimination match, you know, you can keep her in that. And I think that works, like I mentioned. Alexa Bliss is an interesting choice, regardless of how she comes back, whether it's with this, you know, kind of fiend-esque gimmick or not.

39:49 I think that she's got... Equity as a as a star and it could be a good kind of second top program with the women's division on Raw. But ultimately, I think you want to build to Becky versus Bianca again down the road. I mean, I think that's that's the match. I think when you look at the roster and go, OK, like that's. Who's on the journey towards the championship? Well, that's Bianca Belair. I think you can ride that all the way until WrestleMania next year and do Bianca versus Becky on a really big stage and get Bianca that signature win over Becky, the one that she's been... been, been looking for, for, for a handful of months. And that's a, that's a decent long-term story if they, if they, if they tell it the right way.

40:36 So I think that's on the, on the horizon is that's my guess along the way who she wrestles. Like you said, it's nobody's guess, but I think you threw out some, some good names. Nate, let's get to our, what I think is who I think, not what, who I think is our, our onsite correspondent. Paul, let's go to Paul right now and check in with him on how things were in the building tonight. Paul, is this you, 860?

41:00 That's correct. Yeah.

41:04 How are you doing, Zach?

41:06 Doing good, Paul. Thanks so much for joining us tonight and giving us the in-perspective. or your perspective on what happened in the building. We all thought we already kind of tackled our thoughts holistically and overall and said, you know, thumbs up on the show tonight. Was that, what was the vibe in the building in regards to everybody walking out?

41:28 Did it seem like everybody had a good time and got their money's worth?

41:34 Yeah, I think so. You know, people were excited to have been there. It's been a long time since people have seen wrestling. The place was packed. And people were enthusiastic. So a long show, you know, but I think everyone had a good time.

41:47 Yeah, yeah. So was it sold out?

41:53 It was as close to sold out as a building I've ever been in. Even the hard cam side, there was very, very few open seats. So, yeah, the place holds 12,000, so not a huge arena, but it was close to jammed.

42:09 Wow, that's great. What was the audience like? Was it family-oriented? Were there strong male-female one way or the other? Just give a sense of who was in the crowd watching this one.

42:25 Yeah, I guess it was a mix. There was a lot of families and a lot of men in their 20s to 40s, some with wives and girlfriends, I think. But yeah, a lot of families.

42:39 Okay, and did you get the sense that the audience was kind of up on the product and kind of going with the flow of who WWE wanted them to be cheering? We'll get into specific reactions and stuff to the stars and angles here in a minute, but were they a WWE-friendly crowd in terms of going with the flow or pushing back on what WWE was trying to do?

43:05 No, I think for the most part they were lapping it up. They were a very appreciative group. And the only thing was I felt like that they refused to boo Becky, where I feel like some other crowd has done that unless WWE has been piping in noise. They certainly didn't boo Bianca, but they did boo Becky. And they also booed Jackson Ryker. They were not having him.

43:31 They cheered for the Hurt Business over him in one of the opening bouts. I suppose that was a main event match.

43:39 I'll tell you, Paul, I'm truly shocked to my core that a baby-faced Jackson Ryker is not over with the audience.

43:47 Exactly.

43:48 Shocked. Shocked.

43:49 Go figure.

43:50 You're right. Go figure. Interesting. Very interesting. So let's start there. You talked about Becky Lynch a little bit. I mean, I think on the show, you know, from an interview perspective and how she won the match against Bianca Belair, I mean, WWE is clearly going for her as a heel. You said that they didn't want to boo her. Was there any portion of the audience that was giving her a negative reaction? Or was it, you know, split babyface pops for her and Bianca?

44:23 Yeah, it was split babyface pops. I really tried to get a boo going, but there was, you know, out of respect.

44:29 But there was nothing.

44:30 There was nothing there. I think if the match went on, she got a much bigger, I think, star reaction than Bianca. But if the match went on, I think as many people were cheering for Bianca. I don't know if that came off on TV.

44:42 So Bianca still got a strong reaction opposite her?

44:48 Yeah, I thought so, especially as the match wore on. I think people were more vocal and cheering for Bianca. It is hard to hate Becky. Even as a heel, she's such a giving heel. I think about Charlotte in contrast to when she was feuding with Alexa, really kind of ripped her gimmick to shreds. as opposed to Becky who seems to sell so well for her face.

45:20 Yeah, she really did help. I mean, obviously Bianca does her part with the athleticism, and it seemed like the audience really reacted to some of those power moves that Belair did, but Becky just bumps so well for her and sells so well for her, really emphasizes those moves. Was that the most over part of Bianca's act tonight, those big power moves in the ring during the matchup?

45:43 Yeah, yeah. I mean, she really is so impressive. And clearly some of the audience that was not really prepared wasn't that up on the product. They had seen all her moves. So there was definitely a few gasps with some of her feats.

45:59 Yeah, great. Interesting. Nate, over to you for some questions for Paul here. Sure, sure.

46:05 So let's actually pivot over to Big E versus Seth Rollins, or the Big E and Seth Rollins in-ring interaction there. What was the crowd interaction like in person? It seemed like, at least on TV, it seemed like the crowd was into it, but there were few times where I think like Big E was, uh, he mentioned something like, uh, you know, for example, when he said, he said, don't disrespect Kofi mania, don't disrespect, uh, woods, uh, you know, King woods. I think he was expecting a bit more of a pop than what came through on TV. So I'm just kind of curious how that, how that segment came across on TV. And if, if everybody seems to be behind Big E as a WWE champion, um, as, as it stood in Providence tonight.

46:46 Yeah, so, I mean, I have to say, I was a little disappointed. Everyone likes Big E. I don't think anyone was unhappy to see him or unhappy to see him as champ. But there wasn't, he didn't quite get that star pop. And to be honest, I think that Seth got a bigger sort of star pop than Big E did, which surprised me. You know, I think kind of like Becky, that people, even though, you know, he was certainly doing his best, Um, you know, people really want to like Seth. The only time that he really, he really got a negative reaction, uh, in the building that I recall is when he, uh, he pooh-poohed the idea of having, uh, having a biggie Seth match, uh, you know, in the building. That, that certainly worked.

47:29 Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, and then what about, um, uh, what was I going to say? The, um, Oh, there was one other match I wanted to talk about, and it escaped me as we were... Zach, I'll throw it back to you for a minute, and I'll think about that.

47:44 I have a couple more in regards to the Big E, Seth, Kevin Owens stuff. So at the end of the show.

47:51 Mike, if you don't.

47:52 Mind, I just wanted to interject. I wonder if you're wondering about what I'm wondering about is the match with the Street Profits and the Dirty Dogs, where the crowd kind of rebelled on that one. Okay. And they chanted for Randy and for... I don't know if that came off on TV, but it seemed in the building the crowd was being a little bit disrespectful.

48:13 To the match. So that's interesting. Yeah, talk a little bit more about that, because I did have this in my notes, but it's not the exact topic that you're talking about. So did the crowd openly rebel loudly? I didn't catch that, Nate.

48:27 Did you?

48:28 No, I didn't necessarily either.

48:29 Yeah, so tell us more about that, Paul.

48:31 Huh, that's interesting.

48:32 Yeah, so.

48:33 It was kind of deafening. I'm really surprised. So, you know, the match starts, and just as the match starts, the crowd is chanting for Randy Orton. You know, he's a big star or whatever. And Riddle kind of, like, reacted. I guess he was in character or whatever, but he was kind of, like, stoking the crowd on. And it really kind of drowned out everything that was going on in the ring. So that dies out. Then the crowd starts chanting. There was actually, we want Randy. And then later on, it was RKO, and later on, it was We Want Riddle, and really, it seemed like, I think it was a little late in the show, and the crowd was fatigued, but there was a great match going on, I thought. I thought Montez Ford was on fire, and

49:17 Dolph looked great, and the the crowd was not paying any mind Yeah.

49:23 So, okay, so we did get, so they did react to the Randy chants a little bit. I think on commentary, Riddle kind of addressed it and said something to the effect of like, man, Randy, these fans really, really love you, or bro, or something in a classic Riddle tone. But so they did address it a little bit, but like you said, it would have been hard not to if the audience was that, was kind of taking over that much.

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50:24 The question I had about that segment, though, Paul, was so. When Omos comes out and they do the little angle, Riddle runs over and he kind of attacks Omos. And then the audience really wants Randy Orton to go after Omos. They're chanting for him. He like rips off his shirt and they show him like start moving towards Omos if he's going to fight with him. And then they cut to a video package right in the middle of it.

50:52 Did anything happen there in front of the live crowd or no?

50:54 No.

50:56 Yeah, it was like the air being let out of a balloon, all the excitement of a crowd draining because it just goes to black and Randy sort of, you know, everyone just sort of slinks off. And I think he was responding, you know, somewhat to the energy in the room. I think the crowd was just, they were trying to entertain themselves a little bit, you know, with the Randy stuff.

51:21 But I do want to say that Riddle does take some responsibility. Maybe it didn't come off on TV. But he several times got up out of his seat and stoked the flames for people to chant for Randy, which certainly was in character, but didn't do the Street Profits any favors.

51:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

51:37 So I just want to confirm, though. So there was no kind of showdown between Omos and Orton off TV. nope okay okay now.

51:47 Um fade to black and everybody uh everybody in the shower.

51:50 That's so bizarre that was such a weird transition it really was it.

51:54 Was yeah it was super i thought like at first like it was something wrong with like my feed or like my uh you know youtube tv or something like that because it just kind of cut and i was like that's weird why would they build that up and then not not go with it but that's uh that's bizarre um another question for you here pivoting back to.

52:13 I really think that randy was reacting to the the feeling in the room you know the the crowd was just just egging him on and he felt like he had something uh that maybe wasn't in.

52:22 The script yeah it makes sense yeah Interesting. What did the audience make of the angle at the end with Kevin Owens kind of apologizing to Big E and then Big E just dropping him with the big ending instead of kind of accepting his apology? Nate and I were talking at the beginning of the show that you could take that one of two ways. You could take that as Big E being a smart baby face and not buying Kevin Owens because of his history. Or you could look at that and go, man, Big E's being kind of mean. Kevin Owens, I think he meant that apology, and that was mean to treat him that way. What was the sense in the building? Is it pro-Big E or Big E? Wow, come on, man. He was trying to apologize to you there.

53:05 Yeah.

53:08 Yeah, it was kind of split. You know, I feel like if you've watched wrestling enough, you know that no wrestler ever accepts an apology from another wrestler without hitting a finisher. But there was a lot of people that kind of reacted negatively, but I think most people just went with it. I really, I do have to say that I think Kevin Owens is just so pitch perfect on the mic. I mean, he He just– he really– for a guy with no momentum, he really got the crowd invested.

53:44 Interesting.

53:45 The last thing, and Nate, maybe you're– or not the last thing. I have a couple more questions. But the match you're thinking of maybe, Nate, is the T-Bar versus Damian Priest match. That was a– really strong match on TV. What was the in-person experience like watching Priest and T-Bar go at it? I mean, it was pretty hard hitting.

54:04 It seemed like you guys were into it and loud, but talk to us a little bit about that match.

54:10 Yeah, so I think it's great that it came off as well as it did on TV. To be honest, in the building, it felt like the crowd was a little bit, they were a little bit a little bit bored. It was late in the show, and I didn't get the sense of that much excitement. However, I got to say that when the crowd predictably started chanting for tables, Damian Priest was ready. He went right for that table, and that really did prop up interest in the match.

54:42 I think people were almost more interested in the table than they were the match.

54:46 Interesting. And so did Damien Priest get a kind of a big star pop? Or how did he compare to like the other top babyfaces on the show?

54:58 Yeah, not so much. Not so much. I would say one of the least, and people like him, nobody booed him. But yeah, not as much as excitement. Like compared to Finn Balor, like a fraction.

55:14 That was actually the match I was going to ask about.

55:16 There you go.

55:17 Go ahead. Was Finn Balor versus Chad Gable. Now, on paper, it doesn't necessarily scream like this. I know on paper you're thinking, okay, this is going to be. Here, you know, Finn Balor just a couple of weeks ago was challenging for the universal title. And Chad Gable, as much I love him as Chad Gable. How did how did the crowd come across with this match? And did they get into it? Personally, I loved it. I thought this was a great match.

55:49 Yeah, I agree with you. I really loved it. I think the crowd was confused as to why Finn Balor wasn't squatting this annoying bug in the ring with him. Yeah. And we're sort of going toe for toe with a guy who has not won a singles match in years. So, yeah, I didn't get the sense they were that into it.

56:14 They really did get a– they enjoyed kind of cheering for Finn and booing– Gable and his sidekick, but they didn't seem to appreciate what we were seeing in the ring, which I agree with you. I thought it was excellent.

56:29 Sure. And that's kind of what I was wondering, because I wrote this down in my notes, not anything up on the torch, just my notes for the show here tonight. But I wrote down in the notes that it just seemed like If you think about it in terms of kayfabe, because, again, like I said, he was just up against Roman Reigns fighting for the universal title. And like and then like you said, here he is up against Chad Gable, who hasn't had a singles win in God knows how long.

56:56 So I was wondering if it kind of came across that way, especially where it it. Um, Finn, Finn lost with, um, uh, you know, just kind of coming across sympathetic with the one leg injury, um, and having to finish the match on one leg, there was something in the commentary really put over. That was what I was kind of thinking as well as like, why is he having so much trouble putting away Chad Gable? Even though I'm in a bubble, I'm watching this match going, Oh God, The technical wrestling lover in me is eating this up. But in terms of the story, yeah, I was kind of right there with the rest of the audience.

57:32 Yeah, I thought the same thing too. I was like, this is a good match, but I don't know whether it's– that's a good thing. You know what I mean? Like it's entertaining to watch, but it's like what does– What does this mean for Finn Balor? Is that how they see him on Gable's level? Nothing against Gable, but he's at a certain level. And I think Balor is certainly not there. So good match, no doubt. But it's like...

57:57 is that telling of a, of a bigger story for him? I don't think it is. I think it's one of those things where it's like, Hey, we got to fill three hours of TV time. These guys can have a heck of a match, go out there and do it. But there is the residual effect of that, of, you know, the perception that, wow, Finn Balor just, he can't handle business against Chad Gable. You know, this is a, this is a problem. Um, uh, Paul, so who, who had the biggest baby face reaction of the night? Was it Becky or somebody else?

58:28 Oh, yeah, I guess it just had to be Becky, didn't it? Yeah, I mean, I guess I would call it a star reaction, but yeah, she was head and shoulders.

58:39 And what about.

58:40 Oh, I gotta say, Ray got an amazing pop.

58:43 Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, go ahead. Go talk about Ray. That's interesting.

58:48 Yeah.

58:49 And I just got to say while we're on it, biggest heel heat was definitely Austin Perry, which was amazing to me. But I don't know if it's just the crowd loves Ray so much and didn't, you know. But, yeah, he was really– he got a ton of heat. I don't know if that came off on TV, but it worked.

59:09 It did. It definitely came across.

59:12 Yeah, it definitely did. Interesting. So I don't know if you can dig into that a little bit. I'm just curious. Like, Could you sense in there that, hey, it's like anybody opposite Ray would have gotten that kind of heat? Or was there something about his performance specifically that was able to kind of drum up more than usual? Were you able to gauge that at all?

59:37 Yeah, I mean, I guess it's kind of a mix. I mean, people were super excited to see Ray. He's a big star. And a lot of people did not know, you know, who Austin was. You know, I, I gotta say just real quick, I loved him in the way and the whole family dynamic stuff was just, I thought was amazing. Um, but it wasn't like he was putting on this great, like Sammy Zane type heat generating. It was just the fact that he, you know, he, he kind of, kind of seemed like he, he thought he belonged in the ring with great Mysterio and, and, uh, And people were kind of, you know, people were kind of reacting to that. Plus the guy looks like some like beast up NSYNC member, you know. So he has that against him, you know, easy face to hate.

1:00:24 Wow. I love it. I love it. I'm going to use that.

1:00:27 So do I.

1:00:27 That's good. That's good.

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1:01:35 So, and then last thing on my end, what was the reaction to the Dominic-Ray Mysterio kind of interaction? I mean, did... Was there any kind of reaction to that in the audience where you're like, OK, we think we're thinking there's something here with Dominic. Maybe he's going to turn. Was there any drama there in the audience because of the way that finish went down or did it kind of fly under the radar? Because they didn't linger too much on it on TV.

1:02:04 No, I think that that kind of subtlety was lost in this crowd. We were having a big debate on whether Dominic was a punk or not. You know, half the crowd was really down on Dominic, and some of us were trying to defend him.

1:02:20 Got it, got it.

1:02:21 But, yeah, no, that kind of subtlety, like the whole Kevin Owens going for the pin, like I thought that was a great moment, like, Like, did he see, you know, did he, is he taking advantage or did he not notice? But I think the crowd is just sort of, I didn't get the sense that the crowd had any of that mixed feeling. They were just excited, you know, excited to see something that looked like a finish.

1:02:43 Yeah.

1:02:43 Yeah. Nate, back over to you for any other finishing questions. Sure.

1:02:49 This is a question that I'm sure probably nobody else but me actually even cares about, but I'm actually just kind of curious. So I'm not that far from Providence myself, right? I've made it down to Providence for a couple shows here and there over the years. And every time I make it down there, it almost seems like it's half of a Boston crowd and half of a family crowd.

1:03:12 And I know we talked a little bit about the crowd earlier tonight, but I'm just kind of curious if you've ever made it to Boston for a show and what– like your experience between the two, between the two different venues and the two different types of crowds. I know– Boston is at least every time I've gone has been like a little bit more hardcore a little more ravenous of a fan base whereas Providence kind of seems to be a little bit more family oriented but then you still get those people like me that come down from mass that kind of infiltrate the show so just kind of curious if that was kind of it or you know and if you just could speak on that for a minute like I said nobody else probably cares

1:03:49 I'm just curious.

1:03:52 Yeah Nate you might be onto something because the one time I was up in Boston I saw um Money in the Bank, the last Money in the Bank they had, you know, in front of a crowd. And the people there, by hardcore, what struck me is the fact that they were wearing, like, stuff. Like, the way they were dressed was like some, like, vintage NWO Macho Man leather jacket and, like, you know, just, like, not just your regular T-shirt-wearing crowd.

1:04:24 And I do think tonight did seem like a mix. The guy in front of me had the vintage Bret Hart sunglasses, a Bret Hart leather jacket, and somehow he had what looked like Bret Hart's tights on. So there was some people who did seem really hardcore like the Boston crowd, but a lot of families as well. So you may be on to something.

1:04:48 Cool. Cool.

1:04:49 Yeah. Thank you for that. Like I said, just completely curious. But it came to my mind a little bit halfway through the shows. I figured I figured I'd ask if I got the chance.

1:04:59 Good stuff. Good stuff. Paul, where did you where were your seats at tonight?

1:05:06 Um, so I was, um, uh, really nice, you know, nice seats, nowhere, nowhere near the, uh, the ring, but kind of like, I guess, halfway up on the, uh, the hard, the hard, not the hard camera side, but the side you're looking at there. Um, so nice seats.

1:05:22 Okay, interesting.

1:05:25 I've learned that I really want to avoid being on the floor. You know, I might get behind somebody tall, but when you're on that nice rise, you know, and you're not too far from the ring, it's great, and the seats aren't too expensive.

1:05:37 No, absolutely. Good strategy. Good strategy, man. Well, glad you had a good time. Anything else in your notes or in your memory that we should know about as far as the in-person experience went tonight? A good show, top to bottom, I think.

1:05:54 Yeah, Montez Ford was just so full of charisma, and his feats were just, I mean, even dwarfed his wife's, really. I mean, that leap over the ring post was just astounding. So I just sense so much star potential in him that I've never noticed on television.

1:06:13 Yeah, no, that came through on TV, too, I think, Nate. What do you think?

1:06:18 Absolutely, absolutely. And it's funny because when I first started covering NXT, Street Profits are down in NXT, and I always thought of Dawkins as the one that stood out to me more. And one day, both Tom Stoup and Kelly Wells, they happened to say on the show that Montez Ford was the one that stood out more to them.

1:06:37 And I was like, huh, really? And I started watching him more, and I agree. I think he– he has such star potential in him. Um, and I can't like, not that I, I want to see him go away from Angelo Dawkins whatsoever. Cause I, I really enjoy what they do, but obviously, you know, most teams end up breaking up at some point. So eventually I'm hoping they, they do give him a singles runs. I'd love to see what he's able to do on his own. Um, and I'd love to actually see what he could do from a heel perspective too. Cause he has so much much charisma i want to see if he's able to channel that into you know pretty decent dastardly heel but i i've got i've got high uh high hopes for him big.

1:07:15 Time yeah yeah same same but be interesting to watch him watch him go uh all right paul thank you so much great uh just great stuff talked about i really appreciate that really appreciate the call and and uh glad to hear you had a you had a fun time.

1:07:32 All right my pleasure is that zach nate great talking to you guys yeah you thanks paul thanks very much take care.

1:07:39 All right. Well, we're going to go ahead here, Nate, and pivot into the mailbag. I'm having some switchboard issues. Glad we were able to squeak Paul in. But we do have some emails to carry us the rest of the show. Kyle– it looks like Kyle dropped– on accident. I don't know if that's a tech issue or not, but with that said, we've got a handful of emails and some other topics I want to get to, and we'll pivot to those right now. All right, Nate, let's hit a couple other topics and let's also hit the email bag here. We got some good emails and some stuff that we weren't able to get to as far as the color portion of the show went to, some important topics that I want to discuss. But before we do,

1:08:20 tell everybody about how they can follow you at The Torch and how they can hear more of you at the torch and also you've got a really unique non-wrestling related piece of content coming out in the form of a podcast talk about that too because it sounds sounds pretty darn interesting Yeah, sure.

1:08:37 So with you over here at the PW Torch, I do the hits and misses for NXT. So I usually try to have that up either right after the show. Sometimes I get it up like within minutes of the show ending, if not the next morning. But I also am one of the co-hosts for PWT Talks NXT on the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup. Very similar to the format of this show. You guys can call in. We'll be right back. And the live or sorry, the recording drops on Wednesday. And then I also do have another project that I have talked a little bit about on PWT Talks NXT before. And it's actually something Zach's been a part of at one point as well. But I do have a project called DJs and Dragons DJs standing for degenerates. where my friends and I take a therapeutic

1:09:29 look at tabletop role-playing games and how they can be put used in a therapeutic setting. And one of the games that we're playing right now is a game called Mashed. Now, if you guys remember the TV show Mashed, mash that took place in the korean war um this this is a game that's that's very uh very uh uh or sorry it's based on the show it's not a an actual game uh from the show it is based on the show um it takes place in the korean war and what we usually like to do on the show is is get people on that kind of can can a little bit uh elaborate a little bit on the show and maybe um um we're eventually going to be talking with somebody that you know uh can use us with with veterans and things like that um therapeutically um

1:10:12 But we also wanted to talk with somebody that was on the front lines of– well, we'd like to have talked to somebody who was on the front lines of the Korean War. But you know what? That might be a little bit harder to do at this point. But we realized we're in the middle of a pandemic right now, and we wanted to talk with somebody that was on the front lines of COVID. You know, this whole COVID pandemic and she we wound up talking with a nurse.

1:10:34 Her name's Jen. She's a good friend of my co-host on that show, Conrad. And we were able to sit down and kind of get her perspective on what happened throughout COVID starting in March 2020 with just all this different barrage of information and non-information that they were getting from the government and other sources. And, you know, how to try and treat the patients differently. When you don't know how to treat the patients, it was a really interesting conversation. And that'll be coming out this Saturday on YouTube, on my YouTube channel. That's D E G E T I M E. So if you want to check that out, please do. There's a really cool conversation. And I think you guys definitely, definitely enjoy it. Very, it was interesting.

1:11:18 Certainly interesting.

1:11:20 Hey, Steph, do you ever watch WWE and think it used to be better?

1:11:23 I don't know, Josh.

1:11:24 Sometimes I think it used to be a whole lot worse.

1:11:27 I mean, whether it's WrestleMania main events, old dudes at the top, too many titles, or women's wrestling, we're here to answer.

1:11:34 The big question, is it worse or better now? Join me, Joshua White.

1:11:39 And me, Stephanie Chase, for Worse.

1:11:41 Or Better, part of the PWTorch Daily Cast lineup dropping on Monday nights.

1:11:46 Search PWTorch in your podcast app, such as Apple Podcasts or Spotify, to subscribe for free or get a commercial-free version with the PWTorch VIP membership. Check out pwtorch.com slash govip for details on going VIP.

1:12:01 Worse or better, finally, something for wrestling fans to do on Monday nights.

1:12:10 That's great, man.

1:12:11 Yeah.

1:12:11 Looking forward to checking that out for sure. And had a blast joining you guys when I was on that show. So it was fun. So make sure everybody check that out. And also PWT Talks NXT. Lots of happenings in NXT, Nate, for better or worse. Give the audience a little taste of, you know, your thoughts on NXT 2.0.

1:12:33 So, okay, here's the I like the fact that they're getting back to their developmental roots. We've seen a whole new swath of talent come through since they've moved over to NXT 2.0. Talents such as Braun Breaker, who is Rick Steiner's child. child, kid. Wow, that was weird. I don't know why I said that. Rick Steiner's kid, who's honestly kind of blown me away. I hate his name.

1:13:02 I hate the name Braun Breaker. He's blown me away. But I like the fact that we've seen this whole new swath of talent because NXT for so long, they were being built as a third brand, and we were seeing a lot of guys and girls from the indies coming in.

1:13:17 And it was.

1:13:19 And this was the show that I really liked. It was a wrestling-focused show. A little bit towards the end of NXT 1.0, it was more story than wrestling and a little more main roster-y than we liked on the show, on PWT's NXT. But it was still... nxt that black and gold brand um and this new pivot to back to kind of nxt's roots the developmental roots is nice it's good and where where nxt i guess is considered or was considered quote a failure in the eyes of the company because they weren't developing stars for the main roster um in in the eyes of vince rickman um It's good in that direction because it's a show that's getting the talent ready for the main roster, for the audience of one, if you will. So I think those

1:14:12 are all some of the good things about NXT. The cons, to me, are where NXT was getting built as a third brand, and you had all of these established stars and established stories, and it was known for that wrestling and being the WWE's underground wrestling show, especially for a while there. It was kind of the show to watch, especially before AEW. Now you've got a pivot where we're getting, instead of like, you know, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 minute matches, we're getting like a lot of two minute matches, three minute matches. And they're not. all that great because they're going back to developmental. Um, so it's, it's, it's a different type of a show and it's, it's honestly a little tough for me to adjust right now because

1:14:59 I'm not enjoying it nearly as much as I was enjoying my beloved black and gold brand. But, um, but I still think there's a lot of character to it and there's a lot of merit to it. And, uh, I think give it, give it some time and allow these new stories to develop. And, and I'm hoping to see a cohesive product, uh, um, but are a much more cohesive product than what we've got right now. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I kind of think I rambled a little bit more than I wanted to there, but I hope that kind of paints a little bit of a picture of what we've been talking about on PWT talks, NXT, and, uh, you know, at least my thoughts of where we're at, uh, with the new NXT 2.0. Yeah.

1:15:35 I'm in lockstep with you on a lot of that. Uh, I really think it's, uh, you know, There's something to be said for Fresh, and I think one of my critiques of NXT for the recent black and gold stuff was that it just felt played out. How many times can you go back to Gargano versus Cole or whatever they did? It just felt like everybody there at the top especially worked with each other. So it's like you've got to have to– Part of the great part of NXT was the talent leaving NXT and going up to the main roster and being filled with other people. And that just wasn't happening. They kind of got a little stagnant.

1:16:12 So I like the fresh take. I'm with you on Braun Breaker. Name just got awful. But that guy, he's got some personality. He's got a little attitude. He's got this kind of confident charisma where it's like he's there for him. He wants wants to be a big star. And I think you see that in a lot of the guys right now that they're really, you know, showcasing like, Hey, I want to, I want to be the guy I'm here to take this and take my spot. And I think that's, I think that's important, but the residual like effect, you know, cause and effect is that you have people in matches that maybe they're not, they're quite not ready for.

1:16:50 So you have to deal with that too. So it's a, it's an interesting time. And I, I think we have to look at a month from now, Right now, they're just kind of characters being introduced. And I think you have to let it breathe a little bit before you really judge the 2.0 good or bad. But that's what you guys are for. PWT talks NXT right after right after NXT on Tuesday nights, call and show. And they those guys do a great job and have for a long, long time and breaking all things down. NXT down and have been there from the very beginning Nate and so you know are close to and you guys have the best perspective on these changes because of that alright social media really quick.

1:17:38 Nate yeah and it's very difficult it's at Nate Lindberg at N-A-T-E-L-I-N-D-B-E-R-G and again for my other show it's at D-E-G-E-T-A-M-E very.

1:17:51 Good All right, let's hop into the mailbag here. We'll start with Zach in Texas. He goes, hello, gentlemen. Wade, he's thinking Wade's hosting the show tonight, so he's going to talk a little NFL trash here. I love it, Zach. Wade, I'm still giddy over the fact that my Cowboys beat your Vikings with our backup quarterback last night. Kirk Cousins ain't the guy. To quote Minneapolis' favorite song, this is what it sounds like when doves cry.

1:18:17 Ouch.

1:18:18 Gosh, Zach, that's some cold stuff. Some cold stuff. He goes, now on to Raw. Becky Lynch and Bianca put on a show in that ring. The GOAT did GOAT things, and Bianca showed off her freakish strength. The things she can do are so impressive. That said, Becky is still unwaveringly beloved. She was getting sheared like crazy throughout the match.

1:18:37 Even after she won with an exposed turnbuckle and a handful of tights, the crowd lost their minds. Maybe that reaction will make Vince and Bruce realize they're fighting the tide on this one and make her the baby face because anyone other than Bianca would struggle to get cheered against her. Kind of something we've already tapped into a little bit. I think for the reason that Zach points out here is why Liv Morgan is going to have a problem. But she's been getting some of these cheers for a while, Nate, and they've kind of stayed the course.

1:19:07 And I think they've, tonight in particular, with the way she talked about the fans, I think they're more all in on this heel thing than ever. I don't know that this reaction is going to make them change their mind on this thing.

1:19:22 Yeah, I don't think so. So, you know, I guilty pleasure. I love listening to something to wrestle with, with Bruce Pritchard. I, I, I, I don't necessarily like, he's not one of my favorite people in the world, but I like getting his perspective on things and kind of getting the stories of, of, you know, just things that have kind of happened over the years and, and, and whatnot. And one of the things that he always talks about is if you start something, you're going to finish it. And, and, Especially with him in the position that he's in now and him knowing Vince the way he knows Vince. I can't see them...

1:19:57 I can't see them backpedaling on this for that reason and the reasons that you brought up, Zach. I don't really see them backpedaling on this. I think they're going to probably go in on this full force, maybe not harder than they were planning on, just as hard as they were planning on on it, maybe a little bit harder if they feel like they need to. But it is going to be an uphill battle. It's certainly going to be an uphill battle.

1:20:19 She's going.

1:20:26 Against her. And I don't know, I don't know what that is. I have no idea what that is because I feel like just so everything she does, people are going to love it. It's like, like I was talking about with Stone Cold earlier in the night, you know, they tried to turn him heel quite a few times after his, you know, his meteoric rise and it just never really worked. And I feel like she's kind of in that same category. I'm not, I don't necessarily want to say Becky Lynch is Stone Cold Steve Austin, but like, I feel like everybody latched onto the man and that character so much. And then just Rebecca Quinn as a person, um, especially through her social media, through everything, you know, about her baby, you're kind of an, uh, a side note.

1:21:09 There was actually a post I saw on, uh, on twitter uh somebody posted it it was just right after the match tonight um she was kind of kind of crawling up the ramp after the match and she's got the belt slung over her shoulders get on on her knees and somebody just shouts at her your baby's cute and she looks at she looks at him she's like i know she came from me you know and which i thought was great um her for a lot of different reasons and i don't think i don't think they're gonna get her to have that massive like they're if they're gonna if they're trying to make her the female roman reigns right now it's not gonna happen like they're not gonna get that crowd reaction um for her especially

1:21:58 especially against somebody like Liv Morgan. Nothing against Liv Morgan, no offense to Liv Morgan, but I don't think she's the person that's going to be able to be that sympathetic face and get the crowd against Becky.

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1:23:09 Yeah.

1:23:10 Yeah. I think, I don't know. I think obviously there are different kinds of stars for sure, but I think the Austin comparison, as far as the heel turn goes, is it is sound. I mean, and not just because, and not just because everybody loved Steve Austin, even if you take that part out, you know, Steve Austin as a character, what he did and kind of what got him over as a baby face, a lot of it was heel in nature, right? You know, the aggressiveness, the, you know, beating people up, like not, not trusting anybody.

1:23:40 Don't care about this person. Like, you know, like there was a viciousness to that baby face character that worked for, for that character. But when you turn heel, like, And that's what heels normally lean into to turn heel. And he didn't have that. His natural babyface act that people wanted him to see. Wanted to see him beat people up, you know, because that's Steve Austin. So he wasn't able to generate, like, good heat that way because he had to lean into something he already did as a babyface to get that heel heat, and it didn't work. And same thing with Becky Lynch. It's like she's got this man character, the man, and a lot of it is arrogant.

1:24:20 A lot of it is overconfidence, loud mouth, like– And so all heelish things, but because it's Becky doing it, like she can't lean into that to get that heat. I think she has to go a different direction. I think she's got to pivot. And I don't, I don't see her doing that just because it's WWE and she's, you know, she's part of that, that business right now, but yeah, To truly go heel, I think she has to take away something from that audience that they like to see. And, you know, it's like Jericho turning heel.

1:24:51 I was just going to say that. I was just going to say that.

1:24:54 Yep.

1:24:55 You know, you have to like, okay, you're going to just pivot. You're not going to be that same Jericho. You're going to take away things that the fans enjoyed seeing and doing and engaging with. And until she does that fully, I think she's going to have a hard time, Nate.

1:25:08 Oh, 100%. 100%. Couldn't agree with you more.

1:25:11 Um, okay. We'll go to Dave from Massachusetts. Uh, I was hoping to call in tonight, but it was a bit too tired. I just had to pop in and say how much I enjoyed the show tonight. I usually spend raw grading papers and using his background noise, starting with the Becky and Bianca match. I found it hard to look away and focus on my work. Even the priest versus T-bar match was compelling. Go figure what happens when you give matches time to develop. I really enjoyed the expression on priest's face to just add a little new twist to him. The main event was a solid end to the show and, Super hard hitting, and I love the aggressive nature of Big E in the post-match attack.

1:25:46 Good night of Raw that kept me awake as opposed to hitting the bed at 10 o'clock. That's a win in my books. Have a great night. Thanks very much, Dave. Appreciate it. So I agree with that email. So comment on that, Nate. But also, you saw– Damien Priest from the very beginning in NXT, and we're close to his work, grading it on a week-to-week basis on PWT Talks NXT.

1:26:12 They've changed his gimmick now. I'm a fan of it. I think there's a generic element to it that– blends in with a lot of other, you know, gimmicks. I don't, I think there's, it's running very parallel to Finn Balor's kind of right now. The music's a little generic, but I think it allows, it kind of raises his ceiling though, in terms of what he can do. can be like the arrow thing was kind of there and the archer of infamy and doing the pose like that was all there but it didn't really it didn't really mean anything and i thought today yes he kind of had the generic music and yes he's kind of has the generic presentation but he was given time backstage to like talk about the newfound attitude right the newfound aggression like hey

1:26:58 if you disrespect me i'm going to this place i'm going to this dark place and i'm taking you there with me and then he showed that in the ring with uh with the match that he had so i I like what they're doing here. Generic, yes. But I think if you're looking at Damian Priest as a guy who can be a main eventer, either on the heel or babyface side, I think it's this presentation that's going to stick. I think you needed to get a little edge to him. I thought the match tonight helped him show that. So I give it a plus. But what say you, someone who's seen Damian Priest from the very beginning?

1:27:28 So first off, I, again, can't agree with what you said more, um, for, for everything with, with Damien Priest right there. He, so I agree, generic presentation, the music's very generic. And I, and side note, I feel like most of the new music, uh, especially since CFO has left is extremely generic recently. Um, but, um, but yeah, very generic, uh, something that actually occurred to me tonight and i can't believe after following damien priest for as long as i've been following him uh as you know since he's basically came in as after being punished martinez i can't believe i just put two and two together tonight the damien devil priest pre you know yin yang i can't believe i put that together tonight um for

1:28:16 the first time uh which is kind of sad but um I mean I've talked about this before on– I think this show, on Wrestling Night America, on my show. Damian Priest, he has been incredibly protected all through NXT and through his WWE run so far. They really see something in him. I know they love him back. Um, you know, any, anytime, uh, Kelly was on any of the triple H, uh, post takeover, pre takeover media calls, depending on when they did them sometimes do them before, after sometimes both, um, But when Damian Priest would come up, he would be raved about in his backstage performance and just kind of backstage presentation rather. So I know that they really like him and they want to kind of roll with him. So they have really protected him for

1:29:13 quite some time. I feel like his– this current incarnation of Damian Priest is the one that probably is going to stick the art the archer of infamy stuff like when he first started debuting it and started you know when he first debuted he was doing it i guess um when he first started doing it was it was weird i couldn't quite understand what what the gimmick was it's like all right archer of infamy you come out you you do a fake bow and arrow hand gesture thing and you know that's cool but but what is this right and And then he kind of started getting into this party boy gimmick where he was partying all the time. He always had ladies around him, but he was still doing the Archer of Infamy gimmick in his entrance.

1:29:52 And and I kept talking about, like, who is Damian Priest? Like, you're kind of going back to that. Who is Seth Rollins stuff that Wade was talking about years ago? And I was like, who is Damian Priest? And we don't really know what his gimmick is right now. And. And I feel like where they've kind of stripped a lot of that back and they have made him a little more generic, but they've focused his character a little bit more.

1:30:14 So I think it's going to give him some time to grow this character a little bit more and give us some time to understand who this is. new version of Damian Priest is. But in the ring, he's fantastic. He's got amazing charisma on the mic. I mean, he's, he's one of the better talkers. I don't think he's the greatest talker, but he's one of the better talkers.

1:30:35 So he's certainly the whole package. I personally view him as like, is, is a cane, like a gate, kind of a gatekeeper type of a role. Somebody that'll flirt with the mid car, flirt with the main event scene. But probably might, you know, he might get a token championship run here and there. You're kind of similar to cane or big show or something like that. But I think he's going to be kind of a big man gatekeeper role. Somebody that I thought Braun Strowman was going to be for, for like a decade or so. I don't know if that's the role they're necessarily going to look for him in, but yeah, But but that was kind of what I was thinking they'd be doing with Stroman.

1:31:12 And that's kind of where I'm thinking that Priest is going to line up. And I think that's a perfect place to be because you'll be in the ring with just about every major star that comes through the main event scene. Yeah.

1:31:24 Yeah. I mean, yeah, certainly gosh, nothing to sneeze at that, that spot on the card. I mean, you know, like you said, Kane held that down for a long time and you know, you can, you can have a heck of a career career there. And I mean, and you never know though, either, like you never know what's going to take off. And I think like, you got to read the whole situation and gosh, I mean, I'm trying to think here, but yeah, Has anybody pinned Damian Priest clean on the main roster? Like, I'm totally asking that off the cuff, I know. But I can't think of, you know, certainly nothing definitive. I mean, he's been very protected since the debut and got a high-profile spot at WrestleMania next to Bad Bunny. Like, he's clearly a guy

1:32:07 that they want to see succeed. But, Nate, I can't.

1:32:11 I can't.

1:32:12 I can't. I can't think of anything.

1:32:15 Yeah.

1:32:15 I honestly can't. I, I, I, I'm very hard pressed to think. I mean, there, there might be, but, um, the only, the only like tainted memory that I have of Damien priest career is that, um, that, that haunted house zombie match he had with Ms. That I try to forget.

1:32:32 Oh gosh. Yes. Yes.

1:32:34 Yeah.

1:32:35 But other, other than that, uh, no, I, I don't remember. Um, I don't remember like him actually doing a job for anybody.

1:32:44 He lost to Kieran Cross, right?

1:32:47 Yeah, he did. On his way out in NXT, he did a couple jobs. I forget who, but I remember him losing a couple of times towards the end of his run there. But on the main roster, yeah, I can't think of one. Can't think of one.

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1:33:53 Yeah, I think he's going to get a shot. And I think the Archer infamy thing, you know, I always said, if you read, you know, my columns and whatnot on PWTorch.com, it's like, is it a cool looking entrance? Sure. But it just, it just didn't mean anything. Like it meant, it just was like, we're going to do this just to do it, you know? And then, and the minute he like shot the arrow and it like showed the name of that movie from on during that match that, that shall not be talked about. Like that was kind of the end of it for me. Like, it's like, okay, Now it's totally a put on. I think your entrances artistically should jive with what you're presenting in the ring.

1:34:31 And it never really did. It was kind of like, okay, we're just going to do it so you have a cool entrance, not because the entrance means anything. I would trade that for a more generic presentation if it's more– if it's just a little more authentic and a little more real. And it's his responsibility to deliver from the in-ring perspective and deliver on the microphone to change that generic whatever, music or whatever, and make it something bigger.

1:34:59 Like that's on him now.

1:35:01 You know, one thing I just thought of and where I was talking about, we were kind of both talking about his character being a little bit generic right now. And then I kind of said, you know, this will give him some time to to kind of develop his character kind of from a clean slate. One of the things during his entrance was and actually even before his entrance, he was backstage. He said he's going to show the Damien side of him.

1:35:23 Right.

1:35:24 Then during his entrance. the the graphics were completely split and you had damien was you know very dark and kind of you know um um you know bloody looking and priest was very you know heavenly looking and and the graphic was split right down the middle i'm wondering if we're going to see more of that like you know dr jackal mr hyde type of a thing um where we kind of see more you know kind of a monster come out there so that's something that just popped into my head but i wanted to throw it.

1:35:52 Out yeah no nope yep smart yep that was definitely there um yeah so we'll see but i i like it i again i think if nothing else this gives them the opportunity to to do more than i think that other gimmick would have but time will tell by far yeah we'll go to dom from cleveland next you can say guys i've noticed a few times now that that's Kevin Patrick sort of squats while conducting backstage interviews.

1:36:20 Did you see that?

1:36:21 Yes. It was blatantly obvious during the interview of Austin Theory in the Mysterio. I get that Vince wants the wrestlers to come across taller, but can't they at least tighten up the camera work so it doesn't look weird? Thanks very much and go VIP. PWTorch.com slash go VIP. So, Nate, you clearly saw this. I saw it too bizarre.

1:36:43 Oh, my God. That popped on TV, and it was the first thing I saw. I don't know how it popped out to anybody else, but, man, it was the first thing I saw. I cracked up. I understand you don't want your announcers to be taller than your talent. I get it. But, yeah, tighten up the camera work because, man, that was amateur hour.

1:37:05 Yes.

1:37:07 The you know, and I know that there was or at least I read that, you know, there was rumored that was like a mandate to like hire shorter referees and things like that and backstage talent. But but yeah, like. uh, maybe, maybe make the talent stand on a box or something rather than awkward, making your, your, uh, commentary or your, uh, announcers awkwardly squat.

1:37:30 But yeah, there has to be a way to frame that out of the shot. I'm convinced somebody's getting yelled at right now backstage as we speak, someone's getting reamed for that, for that mistake.

1:37:41 I hope so.

1:37:42 But yeah, I mean, like, look, I get it. And if you're going to do it, Fine. Do it. But then you actually have to do it. You can't have that in the shot. Like you said, it's minor league. And yeah, I'm with I'm with you and I'm I'm with I'm with Dom. OK, we'll go to see here. detroit says i think we're getting subtle hints that becky is really strong behind a live push she's mentioned her in promos before and tonight live gets a rub by being in the background of a becky backstage promo with the blessing of becky i believe we're finally well i believe we'll finally get a live babyface push without any starts and stops any more starts and stops also i really don't think biggie giving ko the beginning after ko's

1:38:27 apology tonight really helps his face title run it didn't really seem to get a face pop either i didn't hear many cheers or boos from the crowd as they seemed conflicted not the biggest deal in the world but also probably not the best idea love the show and go vip pwtorch.com slash go vip thank you jb um yeah let's start with the the live thing um Starts and stops, I think that's synonymous with her all the way back to her NXT days. She kind of was around, and then they'd go with her for a while. Not all the way, and not at the top of the card, and then they would cool off. And then the same thing kind of happened on the main roster, especially recently.

1:39:06 It does seem that Becky is behind, or at least supportive of working with her and trying to elevate her. If you believe... a handful of news outlets and we reported it on pwtours.com too, or ran, you know, ran with that story that she's behind a live push. But like, you got to go with it. Like, I think the problem with her is like, nobody can really tell how they're supposed to feel because they get behind her and then the rug gets pulled out and then they get behind her again and the rug gets pulled out. And then there's history. She's involved with the weird Lana Lashley stuff with Rusev. Like she's just had, she's been in the riot squad, which, was in the midst of different kind of elevations and start and stops in their own right.

1:39:52 So she's just kind of lived in this hot and cold world. And so I just don't think she has enough equity built up. This can certainly maybe finally get her some. I don't think she has a high, super high ceiling anyway. I don't think she's going to be somebody that WWE builds the women's division around. But, you know, she's in there with the best of the best with Becky.

1:40:11 So if she's going to succeed, now is going to be the time.

1:40:14 Yeah, absolutely. If she's going to succeed, it's going to be with somebody opposite her like Becky Lynch. I remember when she first debuted in NXT. This was well before I was doing anything with the torch. I'm the new guy with PWT Talks NXT, but I've been just a little over two years now. But I was still watching the product at the time, and she– She came across to me as a very, very green talent and just kind of somebody that was like undercard. And I've never– she's grown on me, and I certainly like Liv Morgan.

1:40:53 Don't get me wrong. But again, yeah, like you said, I don't feel like she has a high ceiling. I don't feel like she's– you know, I can't see the belt around her waist. Let's put it that way. You know, and if, if, if it was, it would probably, I feel like it would either need to be, they need to really build some equity up in her, like you said, or, you know, it would be some sort of a token run or they'd need to do something almost like they do doing with Mandy Rose on an NXT, you know, and maybe like, put her back down in NXT to build her back up, something like that. I just kind of spewing things off the top of my head. Um, but you know, like you said, I, I don't think she has, um, I don't think she's, she's the right

1:41:36 opponent to completely get Becky completely get the, uh, the, the audience against Becky. Um, you know, she'll, uh, She'll definitely be a, a good opponent for her. And, um, you know, like I've read, you certainly read what you guys, what you're talking about too, you know, Becky, um, being behind live, which certainly makes sense. So I'm sure they, you know, I know they spent some time together in NXT. Um, I don't think it was much. I think Becky came up shortly after she debuted, but, um, but still, um, Um, you know, the, I'm sure she's, you know, obviously, uh, you know, wants to work with her and wants to push her. And we know Becky's certainly a giving talent as well. Um, but, uh, but yeah, yeah, I just

1:42:17 don't think she's going to be the right, the right person to get Becky, uh, To be that full-blown heel anyway.

1:42:26 Yeah, yeah. And then– so we've had two emailers talk about this. One, hey, I liked the big ending to KO. One, not so much. It's not good for his babyface title run. Where are you on that? Like is this a good thing for Big E to be doing or is it just kind of muddy– the waters of people who like Kevin Owens a lot because he's still a babyface as of this minute and obviously getting a strong reaction. And now you have your babyface champion kind of take him out.

1:42:55 I mean, conventional booking and wisdom would say, hey, don't do that. But maybe it's good for Big E to show a little edge or to just show that he's not going to get, you know, played by Kevin Owens like he and many others have in the past.

1:43:12 So here's here's where I'm at on it. Like I know, you know, obviously, like you said, this isn't necessarily conventional booking for for this particular scenario.

1:43:22 Right.

1:43:22 But one of the things that I talked with Wade about the last time I was on the show for Smackdown a few weeks ago is just stupid baby faces.

1:43:32 Right.

1:43:33 How many times have we seen a baby face just do something wrong? Really just stupid. So they ignore something completely glaringly obvious or they can't figure something out. Who done it? Something like that.

1:43:46 Right.

1:43:47 I personally really like this because it kind of like, you know, like I said earlier in the show, Kevin Owens, a man of integrity. Like how many times has he turned on somebody that he's been friendly with or a partner partnered with? So. From that perspective, right at the end of the show, Big E, he's kind of like, OK, was that an accident? Wasn't that an accident? You know what?

1:44:10 I'm just not going to take any chances. Here we go. Big ending. We're done. So from that perspective, I really like it because it I don't I don't want to see a dumb baby face. And I feel like that was a very smart move from the champ. However. Being wrestling fans conditioned to traditional wrestling booking, like I can also see the other side of the coin as well, where it's like, oh, well, wait a minute. Kevin Owens is trying it coming across a little sympathetic. And now the baby face champion is going to just, you know.

1:44:41 hit him with this finisher. Like, so I certainly see both sides of the coin there. Um, but I'm, I'm kind of more on, on what I was talking about before. I really like the decision to do that. Granted, like I said, I didn't see it cause my, my feet cut out. So I do want to go back and watch it and kind of see the, the body language and stuff too. Um, but just kind of from understanding from what, what I've, uh, from what I've been told so far, what happened and everything, um, you know, that's at least that's where I, where I'm standing on it.

1:45:12 You know that last segment you're just listening to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com slash go VIP for full details on all the options to listen commercial free and with upper tier options, unlock our VIP exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week

1:45:54 every week.

1:45:59 Cool. Cool. Very good. All right. A couple of rapid fire topics here and then we will, uh, we'll wrap it up. Um, number one, it, it, What's with Selena Vegas, British accent? Like, is it just, you know, you become King and you have to have a British accent. Nate is driving me up the wall. Crazy. Your thoughts.

1:46:18 Yeah, I don't. So it's a terrible accent. I kind of, I like it cause I think it's getting her heat. I think she's kind of up just playing up the fact that you're a queen, you know, British accent type of a deal. But I, I, Yes, it's grating and I'm not like– I don't think I could listen to it all day, every day. But I think for the character and what she's going for, I do like it.

1:46:43 It's– but yeah.

1:46:45 She's got to be more consistent with it though. Either do it or don't. I feel like it's like in and out for promos and segments.

1:46:54 I'm kind of– the way that I take it is like she does it like– she does it to be condescending.

1:47:01 OK. OK.

1:47:02 It's the way I kind of take it anyway.

1:47:04 All right, Nate. You know, you're you're you got me at least thinking. I don't know that I'm there yet to say, hey, this is this is a plus. But, you know, something to something to watch out for. All right. And then last thing. I thought Austin Theory had a good night tonight. I think he clearly has things on– if Vince McMahon is holding a checklist of things that he wants his top stars to have, Austin Theory has a lot of it. He's got a good look. He can talk. He's got a personality. He can– fill time and do whatever comedy and some serious stuff. He can get some heat. So I think he's like a jack of all trades as far as that goes. Like, uh, you know, I guess a good comparison at this point is like Baron Corbin ask, not necessarily somebody that's going

1:47:49 to be made of any WrestleMania, but somebody that's valuable to your show. Cause you can drop them into a lot of different spots and, and he works. Um, Is that his ceiling? Well, first of all, do you agree with the premise of that? And also, is his ceiling that or do you look at him as somebody that can be WWE champion someday? Where's the range on that for you and Austin Theory?

1:48:14 So that's– I could– some point not necessarily right now um in this particular iteration of the character and just kind of where he is in his overall career but i could certainly see that given his trajectory and things uh things like that i I could be wrong now that I've said it, but throughout NXT, he showed such a variety of character type. This this current iteration of Austin Theory, he kind of sort of played a little bit before joining up with the way to to a little bit of a lesser degree. It's kind of more of a serious type of a character. But then he went into a over the top comedic role. And I think he really excelled at it with the way. And, you know, now he's kind of back to a more

1:49:08 serious character and not not quite serious, super serious. But you know what I mean? Um, and I think he's playing that really well. Not only that in the ring, he's, he's awesome. He's fantastic in the ring. Great.

1:49:21 Great.

1:49:21 Technically. Um, you know, and I've incredibly smooth, um, anybody he's in the ring with he's he's gonna have a good match with i i can't ever remember watching austin theory and imagining going wow that match sucked um so i i really do i feel like he is he's exactly the type of mold that vince is looking for uh not to mention he's still really young i don't remember exactly how old he is but i want to say he's under 25 if not 25 um And so, I mean, he's certainly somebody that the company can can build up to be a star, you know, somebody that kind of comes to mind to be like the Miz, maybe not, you know, always, always WWE champion. But but just kind of that that company, man. But that's kind

1:50:06 of the vibe I get from from where he is right now.

1:50:09 Yeah, that's probably a better comparison than than my Corbin one.

1:50:13 Yeah. Yeah.

1:50:14 Miz. I mean, and look, if you're if you're Austin Theory, you know, and someone says, hey, you know, you can have a career like the Miz. I don't think you're saying no.

1:50:23 Oh, absolutely not.

1:50:25 I don't think you're saying no to that. Not because Miz is like the greatest worker in the world, but he's had big moments and made a lot of money and has held titles. So he's a valuable piece in the– you know, for WWE, you know, he wouldn't be as valuable in another company, but in WWE that that's, that's there. And I, yeah, I think that's a good, uh, uh, really well said in regards to, to theory. All right, Nate, let's, uh, as I always say, let's wrap up and we'll put a bow on it right there. Thank you to the callers.

1:50:56 Thank you to our, emailers thank you to paul our on-site correspondent again uh wade is going to be on the vip side of things tonight's rundown the show on the way color hotline pwtorch.com slash go vip gets you the rundown of all that comes along with vip membership including just a host of other vip podcasts all at 30 plus years of archives um with the pw torch newsletter that's just a treasure trove of fun information to to dig through um it's All there for you as a VIP member. So go VIP, pwtorch.com slash go VIP.

1:51:32 I'm PW Torch Assistant Editor Zach Haydorn. You can go VIP and check out my weekly audio show for VIP members called On the Canvas. It's a show that looks at the art of wrestling, just the art of the business. So we're not really talking wrestling. In the same context, like we were tonight, like, you know, grading angles and who's over, who's not, who's getting the push, who isn't and who should. We're just kind of taking a weekly current event from the world of wrestling and breaking that down.

1:51:58 This past week, we did a show where we did a frame by frame artistic analysis of Shida versus Bermuda. Serena deep from AEW dynamite this past week. So that was a fun, you know, 45 minutes of just going through that match top to bottom, you know, kind of just not, not grading it, but just breaking it down.

1:52:18 What story were they trying to tell? And so on and so forth. So you can go VIP and check that show out. It's called on the canvas and it drops usually on Friday, Friday evenings for VIP members. Also, make sure you head into PWTorch.com. We've got it updated regularly with news and columns and show reports for all the weekly wrestling shows that happen. Nate's Hits and Misses columns are there every week, along with Hits and Misses columns for every other major show throughout the week. Both AEW shows, NXT, Raw, SmackDown, etc. It's all there for you at PWTorch.com. Uh, you can follow me on Twitter at Z Hadorn torch. That's at Z H E Y D O R N torch. And you can follow the torch brand on Twitter at P W torch. Nate's absolute blast, man.

1:53:09 Thank you so much for joining me. It's been fun. Um, as always, hopefully we can do it again soon, but, uh, before we go, Yeah, I really appreciate it, man. Great, great stuff. Fun show. But one more time with your social media so people can can check you out there and, you know, see all the other stuff that you're working on on a week to week basis. Sure.

1:53:27 So at Nate Lindbergh on Twitter, where you can find me, where all of my all the stuff I do for the torch, as well as everything I do with my group of degenerates, which you can also check out at D-E-G-E-T-A-M-E. You can also just go to Nate Lindbergh dot com where I've got links to my show, links to that show, links to a couple other things that I do as well that I haven't talked about. But that's where that's where you can find me.

1:53:52 Fantastic.

1:53:54 All right, everybody.

1:53:54 Thanks for listening for Nate. I'm Zach and we'll catch you next time.

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