5 YRS AGO NXT ON USA POST-SHOW: Lindberg & Berkenstock discuss Quinn vs. Stone, KOR & Von Wagner vs. Legado del Fantasma, Boa vs. Waller

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1:35 Now, PWTorch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.

1:44 On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Saturday, October 30th, 2026. Happy Halloween, by the way. We jump back five years to the NXT post-show. Nate Lindbergh was joined by Jake Birkenstock, who was a more casual NXT viewer who had not seen the NXT 2.0 rebrand yet. So this show features his perspective. It's through the eyes of someone who had yet to see the rebrand. Also, Nate and Jack broke down the show, including Queen against Stone, K.O.R.

2:08 and Von Wagner against Legado del Fantasma, Boa against Grayson Waller, Dexter Lewis and Johnny Gargano against Carmelo Hayes and Trick Williams. Flash Legends segment. with Tony D'Angelo, Tommaso Ciampa, and Braun Breaker's continuing feud, and more. So some significant names on this show who are now on the main roster analyzed in this flashback. This originally live-streamed on November 2nd, 2021.

2:41 And welcome to another episode of PWT Talks NXT. I am your host for the evening. I am Nate Lindberg, and you can follow me on Twitter at Nate Lindberg. I write the NXT hits and misses, which I haven't written yet for tonight because, hey.

2:56 Sometimes technical issues.

2:58 Happen, and if things were gonna go wrong, tonight was the night they were going to go wrong. Not only did Tom and Kelly ditch me for their daughters, no less.

3:08 I mean, come on, the daughters are more important than me and NXT and all of you guys.

3:14 Uh but you know obviously it is uh but not only did they ditch me tonight um then uh i i switched to a new provider tonight i i started using sling instead of youtube tv and i lost the first 15 minutes of the show so i did not get to actually see the first 15 minutes of show i saw mandy rose come out and get basically get in the ring uh but durell i'm probably going to ask you a little bit later on what happened there so you can just kind of fill me in um because i'm We have my co-host here tonight, who I will introduce in a moment. Him and I were watching on a watch party, so we both missed the first 15 minutes of the show. And that's why there's also not a live report up tonight, because I really wasn't

3:53 quite sure how to dive into a live report when, you know, I missed the first 15 minutes of the show. So we'll figure all of that out later after this. this particular show. But like I said, this is PWT Talks NXT for November 2nd, 2021, right after NXT 2.0 here. And as I said, both Tom and Kelly are nowhere to be found. So I had to kind of dig around a little bit to see who I could get to come on the show. And I came up with A good friend of mine from my– a good friend of my other podcast, my.

4:25 Other show that I do. I've talked about a little bit here on this show.

4:29 His name is Jack Birkenstock. Jack, thank you very much for coming down and sitting with me today and being one of our idiots here. We're DJs on the other show, but we're idiots here on this show.

4:39 So is that an upgrade? I'm not quite sure, Nate.

4:43 I'm going to– I'll call it a bit of an upgrade. I'll call it an upgrade.

4:46 Sure.

4:46 Why not?

4:46 Why not? No, thanks for having me as a longtime– Fan of old school wrestling. My grandfather would be proud of me picking back up the mantle of the squared circle.

4:58 Absolutely.

4:59 So Jack is a Jack, like he said, he's an old school wrestling fan. He's kind of sort of getting back into wrestling. I know you've watched a little bit of AEW recently. And I, and, but he hasn't watched NXT in a while. So I thought it would be interesting to get his take on NXT 2.0 from somebody that hasn't actually watched it. And it's, he's kind of that exact audience member that they're trying to pull in with this new show. somebody that likes wrestling, but, you know, may not have been watching black and gold NXT. So I thought it'd be cool to kind of get his opinion and his, his.

5:34 Take on the show.

5:35 So it'll be, the show's gonna be a little bit different than normal. We'll still do as much in-depth analysis as I can provide you guys compared to Tom and Kelly. Um, but I'll, you know, we'll still go into some of that, uh, but we might get, uh, you know, kind of a little bit more of a, of Jack's perspective, um, you know, from, from a casual fan, uh, of NXT anyway, um, and, and kind of go from there. So with all of that said, let's jump into the main event, shall we? Uh, so the main event, we saw Dexter Loomis and Johnny Gargano versus, uh, trick Williams and Carmelo Hayes, uh, with Carmela Hayes and Trick Williams winning via shoe.

6:12 Who throws a shoe, honestly?

6:16 Honestly.

6:17 Right.

6:17 Like a woman.

6:20 Now, personally, I thought this was a great, great tag team match. Honestly, anytime you get Johnny Gargano in the ring, it's very hard. I don't think I've ever seen a bad Johnny Gargano match a period for that matter.

6:34 So this was no, no different whatsoever.

6:36 I thought him and Dexter Loomis actually played really well off of each other as a tag team.

6:42 And The hatred.

6:45 That Johnny Gargano had for Dexter Loomis is completely gone at this point, and they seem to be just buddy pals. I almost get Skipper and Gilligan vibes from them. It's kind of what was running through my head. Well, during the Haunted House segment last week, anyway, it was kind of some of that, but.

7:03 So anyway, Jack, just let me let's kind of get your thoughts on the main event, what you thought about this tag team tag team main event.

7:10 Well, I mean, I have to say that, you know, again, having not seen a whole lot of NXT stuff for for a while, I mean, I thought the match pacing was absolutely phenomenal. I mean, all of them worked well. So well together. I thought that there was great buildup. There was a lot of phenomenal build off of each other.

7:30 Like one of the things that I was used to, you know, again, back and back in the olden days, you know, I mean, not true olden days were like Bruno Sammartino and you're like all that stuff. But like, I, I saw a lot of great combination maneuvers, like setting each other up. And like, you know, a lot of, I think there was one move, like it was like handoff as one guy kind of sprung up the rope.

7:53 It was almost like here, let me guide you to this person's chest as they lay on the mat. Like, you know, it was very elegant, you know, I've heard the name, you know, Gargano a lot of times from my, from a lot of my buddies who watch wrestling more, more than I do.

8:08 And, and, Yeah.

8:09 Does not disappoint. Did not disappoint. I, I was taken off a bit. I think we were even making like a couple of like super troopers references because the, you know, Lumis, I was like, wow, that's like, say car rep, say team Ramrod, say team Ramrod, you know, leader of mustache.

8:26 Yeah.

8:27 Leader of cold. But no, that fans fantastic match had great buildup. Great finish. It was a little bit boo. you know the shoe but other than that no I thought it was great it really kept me really kept me focused.

8:40 Yeah, I agree. I agree.

8:43 Like I said, the two of us were watching it together, and I was certainly into the match.

8:47 The finish with the shoe, I'm really torn on it.

8:52 On one hand, I'm like, a shoe? But on the other hand, I'm like, that's also kind of brilliant. He took his shoe off.

8:57 He used the shoe to smack, I think it was Gargano. I'm trying to remember. I think it was Gargano. But he used the shoe against.

9:04 Oh, no, he smacked Loomis.

9:06 It was. OK, thank you. So he used the shoe to smack Loomis.

9:10 But like that's that's kind of it's kind of brilliant. I thought it was I thought it was pretty good.

9:16 It is kind of it is kind of. But though, to go after Loomis the night after Halloween, I mean, hasn't he suffered enough with Michael Myers escaping and everything? Oh, different Loomis. I'm sorry.

9:28 Yeah, a little bit different. Different Loomis. Different Loomis.

9:31 I guess now we're going to be going into movies on this show as well. Our normal co-hosts, Tom and Kelly, they actually host another show eight years back, NXT eight years back.

9:41 Guys, go VIP and you can listen.

9:42 To that show.

9:43 Hey, get that plug in right there.

9:45 But they normally get into movie references and stuff on that show.

9:51 So par for the course. Par for the course, man.

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10:51 Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial.

10:57 All right, so let's go over to the phone lines here. Jack, let's welcome you guys. Let's welcome you to our callers for the first time here. So we're going to go to area code 813. I think I know who this is, but I don't want to embarrass myself. 813, go ahead, state your name and where you're calling from.

11:16 You think you know who this is, Nate? I think so.

11:21 Oh, okay.

11:22 Well, you know.

11:23 I didn't know if you were going to say, oh, we've never heard this voice before.

11:26 No, no, no, no, no.

11:27 I just wanted to be obnoxious and call in to wish you guys a good show back home from the daughter's school play, which is why I couldn't watch the show with you tonight. But I appreciate you filling in, Jack, and you taking the lead, Nate. Uh, and, and given the, the eight YB plugs, man, I mean, come on, you've got it.

11:50 You've got it. I had to throw them out there, man. I had to throw them out there.

11:53 No, I thought this was going to be the good Reverend Keith. So you threw me off a little bit, Tom, you threw me off.

12:00 Jack, this is a, this is, this is Tom Stout, one of the, uh, the co-hosts of the show on a normal.

12:06 So I'm one of Tom's eight best friends. Is that how this is working now? Even older references, even older references. No, I hope I do you proud, Tom. Well, yeah, thanks. Thanks for filling in.

12:19 I know it was last minute.

12:21 And yeah, I'll just, since I did not watch the show, I will invite you, Nate, to tee up whatever segment you would like to analyze next by picking the one that you think I will enjoy the most when I go back and watch this episode. And I'll hang up and let you do that.

12:42 Oh, OK.

12:43 All right. That's going to be a tough one. That's going to be a tough one here. Let's go.

12:47 You know what?

12:49 I'm going to I'm not sure if this is.

12:50 Necessarily going to be the one that you would pick, but I know it's going to be one that you would like. Let's talk about the in-ring debut of Solo Sika versus Jeet Rama. Um, so we saw, and Tom, I'm going to keep you, I'll keep you off mute in case you want to, you want to chime in at some point here.

13:09 But, uh, so we did see, I.

13:11 Didn't, I didn't hang up yet. I guess I, uh, I did forget to, to warn you that you'd better be nice to Persia Parada.

13:17 That's my one last thing.

13:18 I actually, I kind of doubt that she was even back on.

13:20 The show tonight.

13:21 Yeah.

13:21 She wasn't even on the show. You'd better be nice. I would be, I would, but that'll be, that'll definitely be all for me.

13:28 All right.

13:29 Sounds good.

13:29 You know what?

13:29 Then, then shut up, Tom. He didn't even, he didn't even get a chance to say, ah, awesome. Normally it's Kelly. I'm telling her to shut up. So we saw solo. God, this show is off the rails.

13:42 Solo Sakoa versus Jeet Rama. Um, now this was a very short match guys. Again, I don't have match times for you because I didn't do the live report, but, uh, um, it was a relatively short match where.

13:54 We saw the Goldberg short, but very, very close.

13:58 Yeah, exactly.

13:59 Um, and yeah, This was a, this was the first in-ring debut of solo Sacoa. I, I really enjoyed what we saw at him here. I, we got a lot of shades of the Usos.

14:10 Even Jack pointed out.

14:12 That, you know, he kind of, he kind of moved around the ring, like Rikishi a little bit, had a little bit of a body, like, like Rikishi back in the day when he was doing the head shrinkers.

14:20 Gimmick back way back then.

14:22 And, But I really liked we got his the splash that he did at the end. His finisher there was picture perfect. I really liked what we saw out of him here. And I'm really, really looking forward to seeing what they do with him going forward. Jack, what did you think of the Uso's little brother?

14:43 Speaker 3 I gotta say, I mean, there are a couple of different, he was absolutely phenomenal. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I definitely want to see, I mean, one, I want to see where they take him, what they do with him, how they promote. Cause I even saw like a little bit more of the kind of the Rikishi call. I mean, you call it almost like call backside because you know, there's a point where, you know, it was up against the turnbuckle down the floor and he kind of like ran in, did like a reverse, like kind of slammed his button to him. So I don't know if that was like thinking of you pop, you know, one of those.

15:14 Yes, it was.

15:15 Yes, it was.

15:16 Yeah.

15:16 No, you're man. You called it that fricking splash. That was like, what did I say? That that was the landing gear deployed right as you touched down on the runway. Like it was flawless, like better, better than what the heck was the guy who did the missile? Yeah.

15:34 Or whatever.

15:35 He was an NXT dude. Big Ears. Oh, Neville. Yeah, thank you.

15:41 Yeah, Neville. He goes by Pac now.

15:43 Yeah, thank you. Thank you. See how long it's been, folks? Right? But no, the way he did just that Uh, and then just the hands just went out immediately as he went to slam, but it was like, it was almost like a belly flop splash and just so, so little abandoned and like, just, it was fantastic. He did great showing.

16:05 Yeah, fantastic.

16:06 I thought he was great. So, Tom, I hope I did you proud there with that one. There's a few other things on the show that I think you might have liked tonight, especially some L.A.

16:18 Night stuff.

16:19 We finally got some background from Brooks and Jensen. I said that on purpose. Briggs and Jensen.

16:27 But we got some good stuff.

16:29 With Ciampa and Breaker, but we'll get into all of that, I'm sure. Well, not just I'm sure. We will get into all of that as time goes on. So now let's go back to the phone lines, and we're going to talk with Jarrell. Jarrell, how are we doing tonight, my friend?

16:45 How are you guys doing tonight?

16:48 Good. Hey, doing really good. Doing awesome. Can't complain. I got Jack here.

16:54 Jack and I always have a good time when we get on a podcast, so it's going to be good.

17:00 Absolutely.

17:00 Okay, okay.

17:01 How are we doing?

17:03 How about yourself, man?

17:06 I'm doing quite well. Doing quite well on this night of NXT. It was some nice things that we had happen tonight. I hate you guys missed the first 15 minutes, and you want me to try to catch you up with it.

17:21 Yes, I was going to call you out, going to see if maybe you could catch us up on what happened during that Mandy Rose entrance there to kick off the show.

17:32 Okay. Mandy Rose talking segment that led to EO Shirai coming out there.

17:40 And then.

17:43 With Toxic Attraction coming out there afterwards. Well, before Io Shirai came out there, they played a video earlier that night. Toxic Attraction took.

17:56 Out.

17:57 Took out Io's partner. We already know she probably still have a hurt knee from that match. So... They took her out. Then Io came out. Then they got into it. They tried to jump on her.

18:10 And then.

18:12 Caden Carter and Cassaro.

18:18 Yep.

18:18 Caden Carter, Casey Cassaro.

18:21 Yeah. Came out and helped clear the ring and that's how they ended.

18:26 Okay, cool.

18:28 Cool. Awesome.

18:29 So that kind of catches us up a little bit there. Appreciate that, sir. Appreciate that.

18:35 Yes, sir.

18:35 Yes, sir.

18:36 I say that's a segment I wouldn't want to go back. I wouldn't want to go back and watch. But that's just me. I think too much of them on tonight's show, too much of them. And they was in a lot of bad segments.

18:51 You're talking too much toxic, too much toxic distraction.

18:56 Yeah.

18:57 Yeah.

18:57 And I already stated that I didn't want to speak on them and they delve deep into that, um, that, um, they look better than everybody else. So that's why people should hate them. Um, um, you feel again. So, That's not it. That's not working for me. But I want to talk on the reinduction of Dakota Kai. That would be my first question.

19:22 Yes, sir.

19:23 I enjoy what they did with Dakota Kai, and they gave her more of an edge and more of a ruthless feel, and I like that. And that's something that I thought they would dig deeper into. I wish the title would have been on Raquel. And this deeper side of Dakota came out, and we could have seen this play out. So what do you guys thought about when you watched that segment between Dakota Kai and everything that happened?

19:52 Speaker 0 5th.

19:52 Yeah, sure.

19:52 So the match we're talking about here is Dakota Kai versus Cora Jade Jack. This was the first match to well, first match of the night was the first thing we basically were able to watch once you're able to get the, get sling to work. So this is the one with Dakota Kai, she went with the pink hair and she had, she stole the skateboard at the end of the match.

20:11 So Dakota Kai with the wind here and Actually, before I get into all of that, Jack, I want to see what you thought of this match, the setup. And this was also the first time that you saw the new NXT set as well.

20:25 So you actually.

20:26 Made a couple of comments to me on that during this match, too. So maybe if you want to touch on that and then I'll get into then Darrell, I'll get into the stuff with Dakota Kai or Kyle Gonzalez after that.

20:37 Yeah, I mean I had to say that just to give everybody out there who's more NXT savvy than I, the last time that I believed that I was actively watching NXT was like maybe six, nine months or so after they brought up Big Cass and Enzio. So to see how long it's been, I can't even say the name.

20:57 Right.

20:57 But, you know, so it was like way, way, way, way back. So like, I, I liked that they had a lot more flash and pop. I thought it wasn't as quote unquote, like low rent as it used to be where it's like, you know, they had a lot more pop, a lot more flash. So it looked really nice and inviting. What did I say? It was a cross between like a WWE live show and old ECW like Ritter Arena where you could tell like, OK, it kind of looks like maybe, you know, it's like a school gymnasium. But like a school gymnasium or like an upscale school, you know, where they got like, you know, better lighting and a better district, you know. But no, it looked really great. So I thought it one of the things that I had against NXT way back in

21:42 the day was like, I don't want ultimate polish on my matches, but it just looked way too plain that I was kind of like, it didn't really pop or grab me this one. It wasn't it wasn't a distraction. But it was nice and it was warm. It was kind of cozy, if that's a good adjective to use. Sure. It did kind of throw me just overall like I'm used to a lot more– commentators and commentating in general during matches. So I like, I think in general, that was one of the first things like, Oh my gosh, she's got a table on her face. And like, you know, is she going to like jump off the ring and like splash down? Like, am I going to see some like, Whoa, CCW stuff back now? We're like, Oh my God.

22:26 You know?

22:28 But but I was like nothing like the commentators like, hey, did you read all the Twinkies? Like it was just like I didn't know what they were doing while all this is going on. And then no moral outrage at the theft of the skateboard. That's a moral standpoint. But no, I. I thought that the match again between them was paced very well. I know ladies wrestling doesn't get a whole lot of shift in and focus that it should, because there's some great girl grapplers out there, you know.

22:55 Thankfully, thankfully NXT is the one brand that has focused a lot on women's wrestling in the time that you haven't.

23:01 Been watching it. But it, so Dakota Kai is, and she's, she's one of the ones in NXT right now. She's one of our favorites.

23:11 One of Darrell's favorites, one of my favorites, Kelly, Tom. So, you know, really happy to see her not only back, but with a new edge to her as well.

23:21 She got a.

23:21 Strap of mean on her and it was, it was nice to see it, man. It was, it was good. There was good energy between those two.

23:29 So getting into getting into a little bit what Darrell was talking about. So Dakota Kai was basically playing the heater for the former WWE, the former NXT women's champion for Kel Gonzalez. And, and, Raquel was kind of an up and comer where Dakota Kai was more of a veteran and there was some jealousy building. And there's essentially this story that was building for months and months and months.

23:52 And it should have come to a head with.

23:54 Dakota Kai versus Raquel Gonzalez for the NXT women's title. That was the direction that everybody thought they were going, this direction that was like the most likely. And then there was the switch to NXT 2.0 and the focus kind of was taken off of that. and switch to the new champion, Mandy Rose, who we missed. It was during the part of the 15 minutes that we weren't able to actually see the show.

24:16 Is when she was, when she was on the show. So I, I'm glad that I'm glad that she's back at Corbin's chiming in.

24:26 I'm certainly glad that she's back. And I certainly like this new edge to her. She, she, Dakota Kai obviously in the ring, super flawless, absolutely a ring veteran. And this new gimmick that she has is awesome. I love this edge and all of that. And Darrell, I'm right there with you. I really wish that this was a Dakota Kai that we got. versus Raquel Gonzalez for the women's title, which would have probably been, if not the main event of one of their big shows, I would don't want to say takeover.

25:04 Cause I don't know if we're going to be seeing takeovers anymore. Don't think so. That's just me.

25:09 Um, but you know, whatever the next big show is. Um, that's really what I would have liked to see either main event or, or, you know, be the first, you know, be the first match of the night. Um, but yeah, unfortunately it's not where we're going to go, but, uh, that is the direction that I, I really would have wanted to see. And I know, you know, speaking for Tom and Kelly, I think that's the direction I know that it's the direction they would have wanted to go as well.

25:33 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Well, come join me, Alan Forel, over in the Pro Wrestling Paradise at PWTorchVIP.com. as we bask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan, Europe, or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestling's past in the Paradise 2, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series, celebrating the glorious career of Jushin Thunder Liger, and our I Was There When shows, where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety, and you can expect lots of it at the ProRest Paradise.

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26:38 So, Jarrell, back to you.

26:44 Okay.

26:44 Now I want to go to something that's a follow-up from last week, and that was the Brun Breaker coming out there with the Chase U match. I like what they did. I like that they gave him that match. I like that they gave him something to come back from after having that pretty good match that he had last week for the title. And that had to be the best promo that he'd given so far. And I like the context of the promo. I like that he said that he fell for every trap. I like how he said that Tommaso Ciampa is the man right now.

27:19 But he kept his focus, that his focus was still on the title and he'll win his way back up. And I like that they gave him that before they moved him on to something else or whatever they're going to do with him. Because now they got him looking like a baby face and a badass baby face. Someone who is determined. And he showed that he can talk on the mic. And every time I hear him speak, all I hear is Scott Sterner. He's Rick Sterner, but he sound like Scott and look like Scott. And that's even better. I'm waiting for that one new promo to come out and he say, you got a 33.3% chance of winning. Oh, man.

28:03 2.0.

28:04 Now, that would be 2.0, but I enjoyed the promo that he gave tonight. It was short, sweet, to the point, and it was his best one so far.

28:13 Absolutely.

28:14 So Bron breaker versus Andre chase with Bron breaker handily going over Mr.

28:19 Chase.

28:21 So Jack, we talked a little bit about this match off air while we were, while we were watching the match.

28:27 Let me know, let's talk a little bit. What do you think of Bron breaker? What do you, what's your kind of immediate first impressions of the younger Steiner?

28:36 Yeah, immediate like big bump, you know, kind of vibe coming through. I mean, he definitely has presence. I agree with you, Daryl, the like the mic work, something that definitely I think he's going to kind of come in a little bit more to as time goes through, like let him feel out that space, let him kind of get that that. you know, that little edge, I like where he's, you know, he's a badass baby face, you know, where he has that tough look to him. But no, I, I immediately, cause again, me being an old, old school, you know, I love that just like, Oh wait, I, I, I know he, I, I know that family like immediately, you know what I mean?

29:16 Right.

29:16 You even pointed out, you even pointed out the singlet, you know, things like that.

29:21 Yeah. The immediate call that all he needed was the headgear and it would have been like a, almost a perfect match, but no, the, the, Even there, I mean, if the point of the match was to get him over just that little bit more and to get those people there, I mean, what more– there's no better vehicle than that character of Chase who, again, my first time– and I was looking at this thinking, I'm like, who is– like did someone give Jughead a wrestling contract? Like what is with this dude? But again, I've always loved whether it's like Brother Love or, you know, all these old weird characters. I love the weird character. But Chase actually like I was like, OK, dude, can sling a little bit like, oh, yeah, he actually is throwing some

30:08 good punches, throwing some good stuff. And then it was like, yeah, you know, then it turned into Bugs Bunny fighting against the big old wrestler crusher. You know, it's just smash, smash, smash. It was like, OK, you know, time for play is over.

30:23 With Braun Breaker, did he come across to you as somebody that could be main event, could be the next NXT champion and kind of carry this new wave of NXT 2.0 wrestlers? Because they're kind of positioning him as the face of this new class of wrestler, if you will.

30:42 To be honest, though, I think that as much as I love the old school and as much as I kind of looked and I was like, yeah, I definitely smell that Steiner vibe. Like for obvious reason, I almost think that he needs to find something very unique to him. I think for him to get over– and again, I'm not critiquing at all because I've never been in a ring, but I actually wrestled in junior high school, but that was Greco-Roman. But I think that it's one of those things that giving him time and letting him discover that who he really is, not just being in the shadow of the family– Do you know what I mean? Because I don't know. What is the shelf life of a legacy wrestler when they really kind of have that old gimmick?

31:27 You know what I mean? So I think he needs to find something that is close enough to the original packaging. You know, it's almost like an updated version of like a Han Solo figure or something that has to have enough of the original to get people in. But it has to have something fresh to carry him beyond. It's almost like this is his slingshot moment.

31:47 Absolutely.

31:48 You know what I mean? 100%.

31:49 And I think a good example of that in, in kind of recent modern times is Charlotte flair. Um, you know, Charlotte flair was in the shadow of, of Rick flair.

31:59 Uh, you get out of that, right?

32:01 Uh, yeah.

32:02 And there, there's a whole, there's a whole new mess of controversy with Charlotte flair going on right now. I, that is not a can of worms.

32:08 I'm going to open up on this show. Yep.

32:12 Uh, we, we're going to stick with NXT here, even though she is a former NXT, uh, champion and whatnot. But, but, you know, Charlotte Flair was, was really in the shadow of her father for quite some time. And she added that little extra to that character to kind of get out of that shadow and make it her own. So, but no, I really agree with you there. Braun Breaker is phenomenal talent. But I do think that this does have a little bit of a shelf life, just kind of taking elements of both, you know, old school Scott and Rick Steiner, not the, not, you know, late Scott and Rick Steiner, uh, like in two thousands. Um, but you know, like early nineties, late eighties, uh, Steiner's taking elements from that. And then, and, um, but then also

33:00 bringing something unique and something new into it to kind of keep it fresh is, is what I think he is going to definitely need long-term. So I think that was, uh, I think it's pretty, pretty much spot on Jack, pretty much spot on. So, Darrell, let's go back to you. What else you got for us tonight?

33:19 Yeah, I want to talk about Solo. Okay.

33:23 Sure.

33:23 I like that they gave him this squash mask. And I like that he ain't coming out with a feel of the Usos or anything. He reminds you of a younger Umaga with the style that's bringing him.

33:37 How he's talking, the matches, how he.

33:40 Reflects his style. Everything. So I hope they continue down the line and you can see him morphing into a similar but different character of an Umaga. And nothing like the Uso brothers or Roman or anything like the bloodline. He's something totally different. He a beast. the name fit if he um and he going off of that street um street warrior so i like it i'm liking what i'm seeing so far i don't even want him to cut promos or anything like that i just want him to be him and um put him with a man get a manager with him or something and so they can do the talking for him but um i like what i've seen so far what.

34:24 About you guys Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

34:26 I couldn't I couldn't agree with you more, especially with the manager thing, because I wouldn't necessarily want to see him talk either. I kind of do want to see him talk just because I want to see what what he's capable of. But for the character, what they're presenting so far, I'm kind of in agreement with you. I would really just kind of want to see him be that.

34:44 be that crusher, be that destroyer, be that Samoan fighter.

34:47 Um, you know, similar to the head shrinkers or Umaga. That was Umaga.

34:51 I think is a great, great example of what they're trying to present like a modern day Umaga. Um, cause I kept thinking Rikishi cause that's.

34:57 Obviously this is dead.

34:59 Um, but I think Umaga is a really good example there. Um, But yeah, put them with somebody that could talk. I don't know why I was going to say Robert– don't put them with Robert Stone. Guys, please don't do not do that. Don't– absolutely do not do that.

35:12 Have development take all the microphones they have in your house out.

35:18 Yes, please.

35:18 So they don't even do that on accident, right? Right.

35:21 But, you know, put them, put them with somebody that can talk and, and build them up.

35:25 You know, if Malcolm Bivens wasn't doing something with diamond mine, you know, that could be, that could be cool. Something like that.

35:31 Malcolm Bivens could talk his way out of a paper bag. But yeah, I'm certainly down with that. We, we already did talk a little bit about this match, but if you have anything else to add, add on that check.

35:43 Yeah, just a real– and actually I have to admit that it had been so long and me not knowing all of the wrestlers when he initially came out. And I think this actually is a good segue because he initially came out, and you were like, yo, check if you know who this guy's lineage is from. And I'm like, okay.

36:00 It's like whose son is he? And he had the black towel over his face, and I was like, Taz's kid? And you were like, nope. And I was watching it, but I think that that's an interesting example.

36:13 Actually, I think you're right.

36:37 But maybe some kind of trajectory like that, like establish his badassery, if you will, in that nonverbal component. If he had like a young Heyman and a lot of that energy that was back there, like you said, someone that could do some solid mic work, like build him up.

36:55 Absolutely.

36:55 Then have him kind of break free. I think he could be– I think he'd really pop.

37:03 No, I agree.

37:04 And actually I really liked that, that whole analogy with tasks. And Jack did, he said.

37:08 That as he was coming out, you know, I was like, Hey, you know who, you know who that is? And he's like, you know.

37:14 And, but, and then immediately goes, Oh, he, he's related to the USOS, you know, like not even five seconds later. But, but no, I think that, that, that original trajectory from Taz, you know, from the Taz maniac to then becoming Taz. And then of course, you know, he was, Taz, the Tasmaniac, he was that exactly what we're talking about.

37:33 He didn't talk or anything.

37:34 And then, of course, he was a Bugs Bunny villain when he came out. And then and.

37:40 Then over time, he became one of I mean, I personally really like Taz's commentary style. It's it's he's controversial. I know not a lot of people, not everybody likes him.

37:51 He's not.

37:52 Everybody's cup of tea, but he's different. He doesn't sound like a normal commentator. And I, and I like what he adds to, you know, like especially some of the AEW stuff and whatnot. You know, and I really liked what he added to SmackDown way back in the day. But we're not talking about Taz. We're talking about Solo Sokoa.

38:10 So yeah, Darrell, I hope that kind of, I hope that kind of answers what you're talking about. We talked a little bit about that when Tom called in.

38:17 So I don't necessarily want to like rehash all of it, but, but yeah, that's kind of where we were at with him. Yes, it did.

38:24 Yes, it did.

38:26 You know that last segment you're just listening to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the options to listen commercial-free. And with upper-tier options, unlock our

39:06 VIP-exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week.

39:12 I want to get you guys' thoughts on Tommaso Ciampa. I like the promo that he came out and cut. I like the setup that they did. I like that they didn't have a real challenger come out there and they had Carmelo Hayes come out there. Because I think tonight, just by having them look face-to-face and eye-to-eye, they said that um which title is valued more which champion is held at a higher standard and they kind of let uh tomaso champa uh articulate that as well by what he said and how he talked down how he dressed Carmelo down in that whole thing. And I'm thinking that they said no for somebody else to come in because, uh, especially with the line of him saying he's the God of NXT. And, you know, we got a big guy

40:03 who might be coming over pretty soon, hopefully. And I know, um, nature was speaking on, we don't know if we might see a takeover. We could see a takeover in December since the reporters came out that day, our schedule for a bit on in a Sunday in D, um, December which don't have any pay-per-view from the main roster so we could be setting up for then they will have all of November to start setting that stuff up so what do you guys think about that promo is changing everything and even at the end when you had Johnny coming out and setting up especially since Johnny didn't take that loss in the main event which y'all talked about so what do you guys think about all of that Sure.

40:49 So I thought this was a yet another fantastic Tommaso Ciampa promo.

40:55 He is.

40:57 In terms of like when I think of NXT, he's Tommaso Ciampa is like one of the first people I think about.

41:03 He has been for four years.

41:05 So I really like the fact that they're using him in this role to kind of almost be like that last tie to the NXT black and gold brand.

41:16 Um, you know, the old.

41:17 Guard versus the new and this with, with Carmelo Hayes coming out tonight, that's really what they were, what they were doing, what they were talking about. And not only were they talking about, you know, which championship is better than North American champ or which means more the North American championship or.

41:32 The NXT championship.

41:33 Um, you know, they, it was really more symbolic of the new school in the old school.

41:40 At least that's the way I kind of took it.

41:43 The, and I thought earlier in the night too, there was trick Williams and Carmelo Hayes are backstage talking. And there was some foreshadowing there when he called himself the a champion. And even in that moment, when he called himself the champion, I'm thinking to myself, Ooh, champ is not gonna like that.

41:58 And then later.

42:00 On in the night, obviously we get them coming out and he says it to champ his face that he's the a champion. Um, I thought that was like, that's ballsy first off and, uh, for, you know, for, for him to do that. But second off, I thought it was a great way to not only. get some more heat on, on Carmelo Hayes and a trick Williams, but you know, kind of give us a little bit of a taste of maybe what we're going to see down the road between like, I'm thinking they might even set up for like a championship or not, not only a winner take all, um, they, they might even do like a winner take all type of a match.

42:34 Certainly a way they could go.

42:35 Carmelo Hayes versus Tommaso Tommaso Champa. Um, but I was thinking, you know, maybe like an exhibition style match, see who's better, um, or something along those lines. So I can't necessarily see trick Williams or not trick Williams, Carmelo Hayes, um, know, in the NXT championship picture just yet. But I could certainly see the North American champion facing the NXT champion in kind of like a crossing of the guard type of a match there too.

43:00 So that's all, that was all kind of cool.

43:02 Then the Johnny Gargano stuff Man, when Johnny Gargano's music hit as Tommaso Ciampa was backing down the alley, I threw my hands up and I.

43:11 Was like, Gargano!

43:14 We haven't actually seen Tommaso Ciampa and Johnny Gargano on screen together in. Quite some time, quite some time, years, if I'm not mistaken, they've done a really good job of keeping these two away from one another after their, you know, their blood feud and their match of the year or a feud of the year, if you will.

43:34 That they had, you know, 2017, 2018. I don't remember. Time is just a weird construct at this point for me, however long ago it was.

43:44 But they've done a really good job of keeping them away from one another. So when they finally do get on screen together, again, it's going to mean more, be much more meaningful, much more special. And when that happened tonight, there wasn't much there. It was just kind of a little bit of a stare down before they went to But, man, I got some goosebumps. We've seen Ciampa versus Gargano a million times. I could watch it a million and one.

44:10 That's me personally.

44:12 And it's been so long since we've seen them interact. I would love, love, love.

44:17 To see the two of them rekindle their feud one more time for the NXT championship. It kind of goes against what they're doing with NXT 2.0 because it has none of the newer talent.

44:32 In the match.

44:34 But at the same time, that's also a money match. And I'd be really surprised if they they kind of never presented that again because we all, you know, Tommaso Champa's time in the ring probably limited. I mean, obviously we have no, no proof of that new confirmation other than what he said about his neck over neck in the past and things like that. You know, his own time is limited, but I really would love to see that feud rekindled one more time, the championship involved.

45:03 Maybe it's a little bit selfish because that.

45:05 Tag team is one of my favorites of all time in NXT.

45:09 But that's at least where I stand on it.

45:11 Jack, what did you think about this segment, Tommaso Ciampa, and kind of everything that you witnessed here?

45:18 Yeah, I mean, like I think I said earlier, having been away from NXT and really wrestling in general for a while … like it, it really, like, I didn't know, I knew nothing of that feud, but like, just that, like you said, that walk up that music kit when, of course, after you told me whose music that was, and then briefly said, oh, they had a big thing.

45:42 And I was like, you know, but even, even without that context, I could definitely, it's like stepping into that kitchen and immediately feeling the heat. Like I, and I'm almost like, I'm wondering, is there some– I mean a lot of people will say what they will about choices that certain heads of certain departments or companies may have made for better or for worse. But I almost wonder if anytime you're changing a brand, anytime that you're reintroducing something or changing the face of something– There's always that weird battle, right, of like what are the old fans going to like to keep them around plus something for the new people to come in? Because as much as a punk band who gets a major label, right, you

46:27 sell out, you sell out, you're Vince's boys now, you sell out. So I don't– maybe there is a modicum of intention there. behind stirring something of that up to kind of say, see, look, guys, we didn't lose the black and gold. We still got that old pepper. It's that the old pepper boy that's got the old heap right here over the plate. You know, maybe there is an intentionality within that to kind of strum up. Oh, you remember, remember, you know, it's like member berries from South Park. You know, you remember, you remember. But no, I not knowing Johnny Ciampa. That character is one that I definitely want to see more of because there's just something so plain but so evocative about him. Like, yeah,

47:13 that– oh my god, just that out of nowhere pop to trick. I was just like– Whoa. Like there was no telegraph in that. Like that was pre pony express, baby. No telegraph. That was just a sock in the mouth. You're on the floor. Now I got some words for you, my friend. And I was just like, Whoa, like where it literally was like, that was like a, where the hell did that come from? But man, could it come around again? Like really? I hope it don't sound like something like doe-eyed, wide-eyed, like, see, Mr. Raskin's son.

47:47 No, no, no, not at all. It was really good.

47:50 It really got me like I was almost instantly kind of drawn in in Carmelo's mic stuff. his finale is great, great piece on the mic, you know, great presence.

48:00 It's, it's, it's actually, it's, it's funny that you say that because when, so Carmelo Hayes has been around now for a handful of months, he showed up maybe like four or five, six months ago in a breakout tournament that they had. So there's a whole bunch of newer talent that they had before they rebranded is still black and gold, but they had a whole bunch of talent that they, that they thought, you know, could be a breakout star. And he, he actually won that tournament. But one of the things that he really lacked was Mike skills.

48:27 Like he, it felt like he really didn't know what the hell he was doing on the mic. I think it was more, he didn't really know what his character was, at least looking at it now in hindsight, because you're absolutely right. He's, he's great on the mic. Now that he's trick Williams was introduced as kind of part of this gimmick just, just a few weeks ago. And once trick Williams got introduced as his sidekick, it really took off and I feel like every Abbott needs a Costello, right?

48:57 Absolutely.

48:58 Absolutely. Straight man, funny man, but just in the wrestling biz, he found his slave.

49:05 Yes, he did.

49:05 Yes, he did.

49:07 And, uh, but no, and, and I think, uh, I think like they've, they've certainly got something there.

49:12 Um, I, I'm really, really, really a high hopes for, for Carmelo Hayes.

49:17 And I think he's exactly the type of wrestler that Vince is looking for. You know, he's, he might be a little bit undersized, but, but not, but I think still in the same type of mold for Vince.

49:31 But he's got the, he's got the charisma. He's got the in-ring ability.

49:34 He's like a Xavier Woods, Jr., You know, he reminded me in some ways that, I mean, not full on because, I mean, Xavier to me, he got a ton of pop. Oh, yeah. But it sounded like, don't worry, kid. You know, just a couple of years. You'll grow into those shoes that I handed down to you, you know?

49:51 Sure, sure.

49:55 Hey, everyone. Longtime PWTorch columnist Sean Radican here to let you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you understand the story better or see it another way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring on a special guest for the second half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas

50:37 of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on the news or give a standard hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but the context of why. Get ahead of the news. Get ahead of the pack with Ratican Worldwide only at PWTorch VIP. All right.

51:10 Darrell, do you have one more for us, or shall we move on?

51:18 Yes, I have the last one.

51:21 Okay.

51:22 Now, this is just an overall feel. Now, speaking and looking at the show after a few weeks, and now you're starting to not see too many of the introducing the new characters and stuff like that. And a lot of the new people that you started to see that they did introduce, they're going around being more of.

51:48 Jobbers I have when people want to say it and stuff like that you starting to see the sprinkling of the older characters and now they're beginning to build stories how do you feel about this flow of NHT 2.0 and all of that and also I love the little statements of the poker room and all of that as well.

52:13 And going to the moon. I love that as well. That's it for me. Y'all have a good night.

52:21 All right, Darrell. Thank you as always, man. Good to hear from you. So I really kind of like the flow of NXT this week. So it's no secret.

52:31 On this show that I have not been a fan of NXT 2.0 at all, really. From the rebranding, the color, I did not like the arena at first.

52:43 At all.

52:44 It's starting to grow on me, but it's still not my favorite. I still think it looks a little bit too... Well, Jack said it earlier, the high school gymnasium. Um, and that's, and, and what I don't like about that is they were trying to push NXT as a third brand.

52:59 They were trying to make it almost as equal. They were pushing it.

53:02 They were calling it an equal thing to Ron Smackdown for so long that, and there was such a focus.

53:08 On it as a main brand that it now looks like.

53:11 It took blue and now pinkish orange.

53:14 And I call it red, red, blue, red, blue, and tie dye is the way I look at it. Um, But but that's that's really why I didn't like it. It just kind of felt like they were taking a step back.

53:26 But over the over.

53:28 The handful of weeks, as we've seen NXT 2.0 start to come to its own, not only has the arena and the rebrand and everything grown on me, but the page. of the show some of the new some of the new characters that they're introducing are just kind of weird and I'm not sure like Joe Gacy I'm not sure how I feel about yet you know and we will get into that in a little bit but there's a few characters that I'm not sure about but Generally, I like this new format. I do miss having our marathon wrestling matches where we'd see 10-minute, 11-minute matches every week.

54:04 Now we're seeing a lot of two, three-minute squash matches and stuff. But again, as we've talked about a lot in the show, that's also getting back to the roots of NXT. That's kind of what it used to be back when it was a one hour show before went two hours. There was a lot of squash matches to build up to build these stars up in more story development than wrestling. And it kind of came kind of became a more wrestling centric show as time went on.

54:30 And now obviously they're kind of getting back to their roots. So again, I do like all of that. I like the pacing. The, the backstage vignette with, with Cameron Grimes doing the, the poker stuff, I thought was fantastic. Everything Cameron Grime touches is, is pure gold.

54:50 Yeah.

54:50 He should still have that million dollar championship over his shoulder. As far as I'm concerned, I would love to have seen him carry that for a while, but I guess it went back to its rightful owner.

54:59 Everybody's got a price.

55:01 Exactly.

55:03 Um, but, uh, you know, like it's very, those type of segments and like even the haunted house segments last week and stuff, um, they're, they've got that main roster. You feel to it like the Ron Smackdown, that's something you feel like you'd see it on Ron Smackdown. And I feel like they're just a little bit too over the top for what I want in NXT.

55:25 However, that's what they're going for now.

55:28 So I feel like in what they're, at least what they're going for, I feel like they're succeeding. It's not necessarily my cup of tea and it's not what I want, like out of my, I want my black and gold NXT back. And I probably will for a long time, but I need a hug. Uh, A little bit, a little bit, man. But but from what they're what they are presenting to us now, I still enjoy the brand or I enjoyed the show tonight. I haven't been enjoying the brand, but I did enjoy the show tonight. And if this is kind of the direction they continue to go and they continue to build these stories and showcase these characters and the way that they're doing. and they're presenting the show in this way, then I think I'll

56:09 be on board with it. Just, you know, Jack, kind of like a quick, like, overall, what did you feel about the overall kind of pacing of the show, the overall feel of the show?

56:17 Well, I felt the, I mean, or I guess we'll talk about, like, you know, it's just, like, individual segments, because there are quite a few little segments, and I definitely, because I know there's one I want to talk about, but, you know, pacing, I thought it jumped around pretty well.

56:32 I mean, I didn't feel.

56:34 Now, again, I come from like old, old school wrestling, like I'm talking like territories wrestling back in the late 70s, early 80s. My grandfather got me into it. But so when I look at things like that interstitial bit, I think I know what you're talking about, Nate, about the fact that it was great character work. But why the hell would someone just set up a poker tournament in the back room of a wrestling mat? There is something to be said about when you had things like Piper's Pit or even I made a joking reference at one point to like, man, I'd rather be watching The Flower Shop with Adrian Adonis, right? During the Lash Legend segment. Right.

57:19 Oh my god. But, no, those pieces, I think that they're important when they develop character because you introduce people to the character. But there still has to be something like when it was Piper's Pit or whatever, we knew it was a work, right? We knew it was a gimmick. But that gimmick wasn't the point. It was, you know, whether it was the barbershop, the pit, whatever, you were selling the person's character. So it was literally like the improv moment almost for that wrestler to say, here's who I am. Love me or hate me. This is who I am, dude, you know? I didn't really feel like it was too disconnected. Like it was like an element, like an episode of the Twilight Zone. So I found it, personally,

57:58 I found it a little disjointed. Although I loved the characters.

58:03 Are you talking the overall show, though?

58:06 No, I was talking specifically about the poker. Oh, the poker. Okay, okay. Just like, oh, don't get me started on Last Legend. We'll talk about that. But no, the pacing of the show... again, I'm used to seeing, like, I think you said, there's like 10, 11 minute, in some cases, 15 minute matches. I'm even from the day where, you know, and now Joe Blockhead versus, you know, Rip Taylor or whatever. And it was like, whatever local guys from the territories. And it's like, no one knows who either of these people are, but we're going to have them wrestle for 15 minutes, whatever it's WWF. Okay. So no, I felt, I felt that, it was weird seeing that different pacing to the mat.

58:48 Like you said, you know, Daryl said the squash match and, you know, some of these quicker kind of things. It, my worry is that's where you run to into, you got so many people that you're trying to focus on that. Everybody's got to get some type of work in that night that people don't get that focus. Like I remember old school wrestling where I would sometimes wait, like, two to three weeks for the continuation of a story on a weekly segment. And I think that there's something that modern wrestling is missing with that, that you don't always like, I don't need to see this dude every week and And sometimes like he's in an interview segment, he's in a promo video, he's in a before match interview, he's

59:31 in the match, he's in an after match interview. I'm like, go away. Can I see someone that I haven't seen for a while? So that's only a worry. Like if you're trying to pack too much in, you're right. You're diluting the effect of really spending time with those people. That I think is the only risk. Yeah.

59:49 Yeah. And to be honest, they've kind of dialed back from that a little bit with NXT 2.0. Okay.

59:56 So the way that they were kind of running with NXT before the rebrand, it was a little.

1:00:02 Bit even more frenetic. Wow.

1:00:04 And we were still getting some longer matches and things like that, but the– it kind of seemed even a little bit more disjointed. The first couple of weeks of NXT 2.0 did seem like that in a bad way to me, though. Very disjointed and whatnot. And I think just kind of at least.

1:00:23 Seeing the progression right now, it's starting to kind of take shape and feel a little bit more of a cohesive two hours from week to week. But there is a lot to be said for.

1:00:38 Giving giving these stories some time to breathe and either take them off TV for a week or social media plays a big, big thing in wrestling now. So it's like even if it's off TV, you put it on, you put something up on social media to kind of keep the build going or something like that.

1:00:54 So, but no, I certainly, that's your territories right there is your social media platforms, right? Yeah.

1:01:01 Yeah.

1:01:02 In a way, but no, like even old matches, when you had 10, 15 minutes, you could tell more of a story in a match as opposed to a squash match. Just to, yeah. So yeah, just a different style wrestling, not really good nor bad, but some, some pitfalls with it, I guess.

1:01:18 All right, so you said there was a segment that you were.

1:01:21 Looking forward to talking about.

1:01:23 Oh, my God.

1:01:24 Let's– if I had to guess, I'm going to say it was The Lashing Out with Lash Legend.

1:01:29 No, it was actually the intro of The Uso Brother. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, that– oh, my God. So you want me to go first before you– Go for it.

1:01:42 Go for it.

1:01:43 It's real, but I got to say. So two things about that segment. One– I did not care for Lash. I didn't think that she had good presence. She was kind of like, Hey, let me try to like, you know, digest all. And this is going to be a weird way to describe it. Let me digest all of the social media influencers and personalities. I see. Let me get that all gumbling in my guts. Let me fart something out in a bottle. That seems like what people are into.

1:02:14 So I'm going to have a person that's like so full of themselves that it's like, Oh, you know, you love to love me kind of the thing. And I'm like, I have now again, I was separated from the brand. So there part of me was kind of like, since I think I even asked you, is this like a wrestler or someone like who is this person? And part of it was kind of like she just started showing up with a microphone. I guess they couldn't get rid of her. So they had to give her a show.

1:02:39 But it was the fakeness of the presentation. I didn't believe her character as even that. The pans by the crowd with all the ladies hooting and whatever, and I'm just sitting there, and I'm like, this makes zero sense. Then even worse, when they brought– I'm sorry, I can't remember the guy's name, but the– Tony D'Angelo. Yeah. He was phenomenal. He was the preserver. He was the lifeboat to the Titanic that was that bit. where he came out and his presence was great. But even I said to you after it, I was like, you know what they should have done? They just sort of had the technician guy working in a booth and doing his job, like with the bandage on and his arm in the sling and the whole, you know, schlub them along, do whatever.

1:03:30 And then just have that D'Angelo guy come in and start, you know, start busting balls. You know, like come in and go, Hey, you're working too hard, buddy. You know, you know, you should go home well rested to that family of yours. You know, that great family, which is two kids, Nikki and Greggy, you know, how he did the whole thing. You didn't need lash to do that.

1:03:49 And I don't, I don't think she added anything to that presentation. Could she maybe be refined? Maybe I but I didn't see any uniqueness to it. And it was just I'm a sassy voice with a microphone who's good. And it's like, no, you're not. It's, you know, go back, go back to improv, polish the bit before you take it out on stage again. Like that was my thought.

1:04:16 Is that too harsh?

1:04:17 No, because pretty much everything that you've said about Lash Legend and these segments are pretty much, like, verbatim what we keep saying about Lash Legend.

1:04:28 It's like I've been here the whole time! Right?

1:04:31 And I'm talking down-to-earth social media influencer type stuff.

1:04:35 Like, we've even brought that up.

1:04:37 Like.

1:04:38 She's not believable. Her segments are very forced and very disjointed. All she really does is kind of like she like there was one week when Squid Game was was really big. Well, still is really big. But when it first kind of came out, you know, she immediately referenced Squid Game and Squid Game. Like there was really no reason to reference it.

1:04:57 But she brought it up because, as Tom said at the time, that's what the kids are talking about.

1:05:02 Um, so, you know, things like that.

1:05:04 And she, the panning of the crowd and the crowd hooting and hollering is just so forced and fake and stupid.

1:05:13 Um, right.

1:05:14 It's like, am I watching an old episode of like Maury where they're like, ready to go to the commercial break? Like where's Steve, right? Is Steve going to come down and, you know, lay the smack down on D'Angelo and, uh.

1:05:27 You know, Before pushing play on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows, check out PWTorch.com and our TV review section and skim through a full rundown of the TV show. If you didn't see it, that's your way to get an overview of what happened before you dive into our in-depth analysis of the key happenings on the show. That's PWTorch.com, your home for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with my TV reports. And also check out our NXT and Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports on Saturday nights, and of course our live pay-per-view and PLE coverage on weekends, all waiting for you at PW torch.com.

1:06:05 But, but you're absolutely right.

1:06:06 So Tony D'Angelo, I, uh, I've really liked his, his character, this, this gimmick since we've, since he's kind of debuted, he's only had maybe one or two matches in the ring.

1:06:16 I think at this point, I can't remember exactly. Um, so, cause he, he's also one of the NXT 2.0 guys as his last legend. She's only been around since 2.0.

1:06:24 Um, But Tony D'Angelo showed up doing like these vignettes down at the docks talking about how his cousin works.

1:06:32 Down at the docks. And, you know, things sometimes go missing off the boats and, you know, things like that.

1:06:38 And I personally, you know, like, like I said to you off air, you know, even with the last name Lindbergh, I'm mostly Italian.

1:06:44 I really latched onto this character.

1:06:46 Um, great, you know, great character. I, I personally think that he has a really high ceiling. Um, and you know, I, I don't necessarily think he's going to be NXT champion or anything like that, but, uh, certainly like North American title or something like that, uh, for me, Tom and so they kind of saw a lower ceiling for him than me. But I, I, I really liked this guy.

1:07:11 I like his presence. I liked his ring work on the mic. Like his promo ability is fantastic though.

1:07:19 The back and forth with that technician, what he was talking about, all those intimidation tactics and everything. It was beautiful. Absolutely phenomenal.

1:07:27 That was like homemade mama's meatloaf, man. That was so yummy just to digest all of that bit. It was such great work, man. The character. Yeah.

1:07:38 And you don't see a lot of that out of– so a lot of the promos that you see on NXT, WWE, what have you, they sound scripted.

1:07:47 They sound like people are either reading off a teleprompter. They're reciting lines because they are. And I didn't get that out of Tony D'Angelo. I didn't get that out of Braun Breaker, LA Knight. So there's definitely some really, really good talkers in the show.

1:08:03 Well, isn't it the real difference that– it's kind of like if you talk about– there's one of my– MC Lars, one of my favorite nerdcore hip-hop artists, right? He has a song called Generic Crunk Rap. where it's all, he basically breaks down what a crunk rapper is, you know, like rhyme about my loot, you know, phrase about these haters.

1:08:23 I always got to shoot. And it's like all of the typical beats. And again, call it as schmaltzy as you do. If you talk back about like eighties where you had like the Brooklyn brawler and you had the goon and all these, like, you know, all these weird gimmicky wrestlers, there's something. Okay. I think we can get away from costumed comic book gimmicky and But playing that, there's something about a wrestler that embodies a character. Even if it's MJF, who's playing just a prick, but you love that character and the way that they that character i think that d'angelo even just meeting him for the first time tonight i'm like oh my god are they gonna do like could they do like a gangs of new york thing or where he like gets a bunch

1:09:06 of other like you know come on you mooks let's talk you know you know is it like the the iwo or something or like is it gonna go to like he he hooks up with that billionaire dogecoin guy and all of a sudden he's like a I mean, all Godfather, like, oh, my God, this dude, right?

1:09:26 Jack Cameron Grimes is the godfather to Tony D'Angelo.

1:09:30 That is phenomenal. I'm going to make you made man.

1:09:33 I'll tell you what, right there. No, of course, I'm looking at you all the way. It's like, are you sure you listen to me? Like, imagine the way those guys could bounce off of each other because they're great characters and characters. It's a play, right? It's entertainment.

1:09:47 Absolutely.

1:09:48 Wrestling.

1:09:48 So, yeah, absolutely. No, I, I, I, I agree.

1:09:52 Like there's, there's definitely something to be said for character wrestling. Um, and they're getting back to that with NXT. Um, you think guys like Zion Quinn, um, you know, uh, Boa, Tensha, um, you know, things like that. They're, they're, Uh, they're kind of getting back to not everybody. Well, even like Josh Briggs, Brooks Jensen, those are those good old boys that had to cook out, you know, those two guys, you know, they're getting, they're kind of getting back to those, uh, those gimmicks and they got away from them for so long. NXT, not just NXT, WWE in general got away from that and they kind of went to more realism and, Which I think was a good thing at the time, but there's certainly something to be said for gimmicks and gimmickry.

1:10:33 Well, it's not– but it's not even gimmicks though on its own. I hope I'm not taking too much time talking about this.

1:10:38 No, no, it's fine.

1:10:39 It's just something kind of insensual because if you look back even when– if you look at like old Macho Man promos from way around, Macho Man, like that wasn't really a gimmick. But that was him. Like that was his character. So when he does like the cream of the crop, you know, like going in all the old little bits and stuff that he did, you were transfixed.

1:11:02 Like even Piper, Piper was a character who's very true to who he was. At least, you know, I don't know how much kayfabe or fake or whatever he put into it. But just that whole idea, like you want to watch these people because of the character. And it wasn't a shoddy gimmick. So you don't need something like you don't need to go to gorgeous ladies or wrestling kind of like, oh, no, she's hypnotizing her opponent and she's slamming her own head in the turnbuckle. That was probably an actual work.

1:11:28 Some papa shango shit.

1:11:30 Right as opposed to i'm the best there ever was the best there ever will be and here's my belt try to take it from me jump like that's everybody's promo now that's one of the reasons i kind of slid away from wrestling i was like another brock lesnar match for the title you know yeah yeah i was telling the same card pay-per-view after pay-per-view and i'm like okay i'm gonna go play jacks because there's a little more randomness you know it's like go go go to that but you know you know what i mean like it's all my characters yeah you know work it make you know pop it orange cassidy for crying out loud what a freaking character he is you know oh.

1:12:11 Yeah for sure yeah there's there's some great characters out there now absolutely All right. So now we're going to before we dive into the mailbag, let's let's do.

1:12:20 A couple little let's do a couple little plugs here, Jack.

1:12:23 Let's let's talk a little bit about what you do outside of this.

1:12:28 Podcast, because, well, hey, it's the first time you're doing it.

1:12:31 But, you know, As I've talked about on the show before, I have a little bit of a side project where I take a look at tabletop games and role-playing as a form of therapeutic gaming. And Jack has actually been pretty instrumental in our project, not only just our project, but.

1:12:51 In therapeutic gaming in general. So Jack, just to What you guys do over at the Bodana Group. I got to say three minutes or he'll go forever.

1:13:02 Oh, you know me. You know me so well, Mr. So, yeah, I am. I'm the executive director and one of the founders of a nonprofit called the Bodana Group, B-O-D-H-A-N-A. And we're a 501c3 that uses tabletop games, whether role-playing or board games, for educational, therapeutic, and skill-building potential. So this is anything from playing a co-op board game to teach kids social skills and cooperation, all the way to using narrative role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons and others to work on things like anxiety, depression. We support children, teens, and adults with varying levels of specialties. We are the annual organizers of the Save Against Fear Convention. It's our annual fundraiser that just wrapped up last month in October.

1:13:52 We also provide training, consultation to companies or professionals who want to do this for themselves. So you can just check us out at www.thebodanagroup.org to find all of the information about our services, our offerings, our mission, our vision. And we're also working on our own role-playing game. And, yes, I have been a proud– Friend and collaborator, working on a number of different things with you over the years, Nate.

1:14:20 So yeah, gaming, we actually, I wanted to share this in the three minutes that I have. I actually have not only Greco-Roman wrestling, but at our Save Against Fear convention, we annually would run a role-playing game called Piledrivers and Powerbombs. which is published by a company called Prince of Darkness Games.

1:14:39 And I was the champion belt holder of the BCW, the Bodana Championship Wrestling Championship Belt. I held it for two years. And my signature character, Rusty Road, the road-playing dream daddy.

1:14:55 I knew what it was.

1:14:56 I was a plain man, the son of a taxi cab driver. But I knew about the power of gaming. And the things that it could bring into my life, it just opened up a whole new world for me. So I used a version of Bionic Elbow, and then I just rolled the dice, people, and I just did a thing that was visual, but you couldn't see it because we're on speech.

1:15:16 That's phenomenal. That's phenomenal.

1:15:21 So Jack, like I said, Jack with the Bodana Group doing some great work with RPGs and therapeutic intentionality. So check them out at thebodanagroup.org.

1:15:32 Great stuff. Great stuff.

1:15:33 And again, thank you for everything you've done for me and my other show, which has been awesome.

1:15:37 Hey, life is not worth it if you don't work to connect people.

1:15:41 Absolutely. Absolutely.

1:15:50 Are you a fan of AEW looking to sit back, relax, and listen to some like-minded podcasters who share your passion?

1:15:57 Do you want to be talked off the ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the heck are they thinking?

1:16:02 Do you want to join a discussion on what AEW is doing right and what they could do to improve? Then join me, Joel. And me, Greg, for the All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PWTorch Livecast feed. Search PWTorch in your podcast app and subscribe to PWTorch Dailycast or stream our shows directly from PWTorch.com. Find full details on the PWTorch Dailycast lineup at PWTorchDailycast.com.

1:16:37 All right, so guys, with that, let's dive into the mailbag, shall we? We're going to go to our good friend, Dr. Kevin P.

1:16:45 Catani.

1:16:46 Salutations, gents. I hope this email finds you well. As WWE continues to live in NXT 2.0, Nate's favorite show ever. Nate's favorite show ever's name. Cause I love the name NXT 2.0. I've been wondering, are there still wrestlers who were signed within the last one to three years that we still have a chance of seeing on TV now that folks like Von Wagner are getting a chance who might be next?

1:17:12 Let's see. Thanks as always go VIP and listen to eight, eight years back. He says it's his bad from last week.

1:17:18 Cause he didn't plug it last week. Office hours are office hours are now over the professor, Kevin P Katani, Pete H D. So let's see, are there still wrestlers signed in the last one to three years that we still have a chance of seeing on TV? You know, Kevin, of course they need to read this email as I don't have.

1:17:34 A roster list pulled up.

1:17:37 So let me, let me, you know, take a second here and kind of pull up this roster and Um, there's probably got it. Well, let's see Kushida. We haven't seen Kushida in a little bit. Speaker 0 We'll probably see him soon. I'd like to say we'll see Samoa Joe back at some point in the near future. Timothy Thatcher, where the hell has he been since we've gone to NXT 2.0? That's what I want to know. He's somebody that, and Jack, I don't know if you're necessarily familiar with Timothy Thatcher, but he was actually, he was a tag team with Tommaso Champa. So very similar type of a style. like, uh, really, um, well, amateur style wrestling, uh, Greco style wrestling is kind of.

1:18:19 His, his shtick.

1:18:21 Um, Timothy Thatcher is really somebody that I, I, I latched onto quite a bit. Didn't really have a lot of ring presence. It was kind of not everybody's cup of tea, very plain, but I really, really enjoyed him. He's somebody that I think we'll probably see on NXT again. But he's certainly been absent for the last six, seven weeks. So, so um, looking down the female card here, uh, let's see.

1:18:50 It's not really anybody that, yeah, actually just about everybody with the exception of like Saray and Scarlet that are listed as female wrestlers in NXT.

1:19:02 We pretty much either saw.

1:19:04 Everybody or, and Ember moon, but Ember moon showed up quite a bit. Um, So yeah, there's really not anybody else that's listed that we haven't actually seen a whole lot of, um.

1:19:15 Your TN Shaw, um, you, the, the, uh, tag team.

1:19:18 With Boa and really may get Maying at this point because I at least we moved up to the main roster. Um, we haven't seen a whole lot of them, but we obviously, we saw them kind of reemerge tonight.

1:19:28 Um, And I really want to see them.

1:19:31 Take that tag team and that gimmick and that story a little bit further. They've spent so much time and investment in that tag team that I'm, I'm kind of shocked that, well, I'm shocked that they brought her up and I'm not as I Lee up. Cause, and I'm not, because like, obviously it's, it's not about NXT. It's about the main roster. That's the way events sees it. But it's a shame that they spent so much time building up Xia Li and in this whole, you know, TN shot stable and then kind of called her up.

1:20:02 So, but yeah, so I kind of, I guess there was a little bit more of a non-answer than anything there, Kevin, but that's, that's what you're going to get this week, buddy. That's what you're going to So we're going to go to an email from JB.

1:20:24 Hi team.

1:20:25 It's JB from Detroit.

1:20:26 It was clear for Mandy's pro and the subsequent beat down of Zoe by JC and Gigi, that the goal was for toxic attraction to get booze in their opening segment.

1:20:36 Booze and heat in their opening segment.

1:20:38 Oddly enough, it seemed as if she got a lot of cheers and you deserve a chance as the promo went on. Similarly, when Io came out, she also seemed to get the lion's share of the adulation. I do think Io is a good opponent to put against Toxic Traction to get them booed, however. The Io rub is a good idea to get Casey and Kayden over as well. Now, this was the opening segment in that opening 15 minutes that we were not privy to see, so I can't really speak too much to this other than what we've Kind of heard from Darrell and things like that. But, um, I, I did actually watch, I was able to see the first like three minutes of this.

1:21:14 It's not like I missed the entire thing. I was able to see the first three minutes.

1:21:17 Um, and I did see up to where they said like the, the, uh, they started chanting, you deserve it.

1:21:23 No, you don't. You deserve it. No, you don't at Mandy. Um, and I think Mandy played off that really well. Cause she just was like, yes, I deserve it. She didn't, she did not acknowledge the haters whatsoever. Um, I'm you know, it's no secret. None of us on the show were a fan of Mandy Rose. We really didn't want to see her be the one to dethrone Raquel Gonzalez.

1:21:45 But.

1:21:46 It is what it is.

1:21:48 And I, I kind of admit, I got to think Mandy Rose is, I get to admit she's doing a bit of a better job than I expected out of her.

1:21:55 This new gimmick is, is different.

1:21:58 I feel like she is, she could, she's not the best in the world in terms of her in ring ability or promos, but I feel like this, this new character and this kind of dark side of Mandy Rose has been she's, she's pulled it off well enough is a championship level material that, I don't know.

1:22:16 Maybe not. We'll see. This is still the first week as her as champion.

1:22:21 And with the rest of toxic attraction G G G Dolan and JC Jane, unfortunately we didn't get to see them tonight, Jack, because our technical issues, but with them as the tag, actually, you know what? We did get to see them because they came up in a promo later on in the night with T they were, they were the two female tag team champions that walked up with two tag team champions there.

1:22:43 Oh, okay.

1:22:44 Yep.

1:22:45 So who kind of looked like a page 2.0.

1:22:49 Kind of, sort of actually.

1:22:50 Yeah. Yeah.

1:22:51 Yeah. That would be, that would be Gigi Dolan, um, with, with the addition of Gigi Dolan and JC Jane, you know, and now that they're, uh, that particular stable toxic attraction holds all of the, the belts, uh, all of the female gold in NXT. Um, I have a feeling that they're going to be pushed while they are, they had been pushed pretty heavily. Um, And it's like they're running with it. They're actually doing a pretty good job. Gigi Dolan and JC Jane, I think, are doing... better job in my opinion of, of kind of presenting themselves, portraying themselves.

1:23:22 But Mandy is, is certainly, she's certainly doing a little bit better than I think anybody really expected out of her. And, you know, I say that as somebody that's not a Mandy Rose fan. So I, Jack, I was going to say, I don't know if you have anything to add. I know, obviously we didn't see them here tonight.

1:23:41 But cricket noise here. So Jack current, current state of NAC.

1:23:47 Yes, yes, yes.

1:23:49 All right, so we'll go over to David Podnar. David also– David starts his email and goes, I missed a lot of tonight's show.

1:23:57 Hey, so did we. So I don't have anything specific. Maybe it just.

1:24:01 Wasn't us then.

1:24:02 Yeah, maybe.

1:24:03 Maybe everybody had problems with her.

1:24:06 Yeah, you know what? That's what I'm going to say. It was everybody. It wasn't just us. We weren't the idiots here. No, it's just a simple fact. It wasn't really anything except the simple fact that I forgot to hit the record button on the DVR because I was using a new service. It's my fault. I'm the IT guy, guys.

1:24:22 I'm the IT guy, and I screwed up.

1:24:24 That's what we call recnology. It's okay.

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1:25:24 All right, so David says, I missed a lot of tonight's show, so I don't have anything specific, but the overall change to the show feels like a town which had a major sports league franchise and now has a minor league sports team. The effort may be there, but the reason for the team has changed from when to develop and the skill level isn't quite nearly as high.

1:25:44 I'm thinking that this change in approach... Sorry, I'm thinking that this change... I'm thinking that this change in approach in a week is causing some of the issues with the fans who have been watching only in the last couple of years and have missed the old developmental days of NXT. Thanks everyone, Dave Podnar. And we, we kind of did touch on this earlier in the show, Jack, you kind of brought it up a little bit too, of, you know, keeping, keeping those old fans placated and things like that. You know, and that's, that's something, you know, I've actually, I brought up on the show and you know, you brought it up and it's something, it's stuff that people have, people have been talking about the wrestling world

1:26:23 for a while, you know, since NXT 2.0 has kind of been a thing. NXT is really– so the black and gold brand was really considered a failure by Vince because he wasn't creating stars for him, right? So they wanted to create NXT 2.0 and make it more like a mini Raw, mini SmackDown, kind of like you mentioned earlier, to kind of get them prepared for the main roster.

1:26:45 And that's really what we're seeing now.

1:26:49 This change in the– this change is– certainly a huge deviation from what we've saw at NXT, especially over the last like three years when, when they really started to go to a two, two hour show.

1:27:06 Cause it's, it is getting back to those developmental roots.

1:27:08 A lot of the squash matches, we kind of stuff we've already talked about and touched on, you know, in this show. But, but I, I think it is driving people away from the show that we're watching it on a week to week basis.

1:27:19 I know For me, I've said this a thousand times.

1:27:22 If I wasn't doing this podcast and I wasn't writing my column for The Torch every week, I probably would have stopped watching NXT 2.0 because it just was not the show that.

1:27:32 I wanted to watch. This week, however, I will admit they pulled me in. They got me. I enjoyed the show.

1:27:39 Um, but generally the past few weeks, I I've been, I've been really matter of fact, the, my, my hits and misses column for, for NXT last week was primary. I think everything was a hit. Uh, everything was a mess. Every single thing was a mess for me with me, with the exception, I think of one segment, uh, which I gave a lukewarm hit. So which is telling because very rarely do I even give out a miss in NXT.

1:28:04 It's normally things I can make a make a case for something to be a hit. So I do think Dave's on to something here with, you know, this this new approach being a.

1:28:16 Bit of a.

1:28:17 A bit of a reason for people to tune out. However, as Kelly has brought up in the past, that's not what their goal is here. Their goal isn't necessarily to retain these fans. It's to bring in new fans. And I think it's stupid. I don't think it's really the way to do it.

1:28:34 However, because like I said earlier, we're NXT, the black and gold brand was considered a failure by Vince. because it wasn't creating him. It wasn't creating brand.

1:28:43 New toys for him to put in his Ron Smackdown sandbox that he could use. He knew how to play with right off the bat. He just didn't get a lot of the characters.

1:28:52 That came out of it. He only buys He-Man figures. So, you know, he has no time for the Orkos. Because what was it? The one match, I think we talked about it. It was the one tag team match with the.

1:29:04 We haven't actually talked about it yet. But it was actually the next one I was going to get into. So, actually, you know what? Why not? Let's just get a mailbag.

1:29:13 I don't want to cut that.

1:29:15 Nope.

1:29:15 That was a, that was the last one for the mailbag there. Um, so actually let's jump into, uh, let's jump into that one. So the match that he is bringing up here was Kyle O'Reilly and Vaughn Wagner versus Legato Del Fantasma, uh, where we did see, um, we saw Legato Del Fantasma get a win really out of nowhere here. It was, uh, it was, it was odd.

1:29:38 It was a very strange finish. Um, I, I, in a way, okay. So in a way it was strange, but I also kind of think I see where there might be going with this um because kyle o'reilly hasn't been able to trust anybody after the the the breakup of his former stable called the undisputed era think dx but just kind of brought up into this era and in less crotch chops.

1:30:01 Well i'm out no yeah you know i you lost me at crotch chops.

1:30:05 That's kind of the quick explain the quick quick explanation of undisputed era a little bit different than dx but kind of think that um And, uh, but after the breakup of undisputed era, he was kind of the one that was left. Like everybody kind of betrayed him. He was really betrayed by the leader, Adam Cole. And he's kind of just got some trust issues now, you know, and Von Wagner, uh, he's kind of brought himself in and said, Hey, no, I respect you. You can trust me whether you like it or not, I'm going to be your partner. And so it was kind of like, okay, what are the ulterior motives here? If there are any ulterior motives for, uh, Von Wagner and, like I think with this particular finish here where he, where Von Wagner

1:30:48 just got quickly rolled up by one of the two members of Legado del Fantasma. I don't, I don't know if it was Raul Mendoza or if it was Joaquin Wilde off the top of my head, but where he just got quickly rolled up, it left both Kyle and Von Wagner kind of looking at each other afterwards with Kyle kind of pissed that his partner lost. So I'm kind of wondering if it's going to like lead to a little bit of animosity between the two of them.

1:31:15 It might be a further work because you remember one of the bumps in the match was and again, Kyle, Kyle. Yeah.

1:31:22 Kyle O'Reilly. Yeah.

1:31:23 He was going over to to make the tag on Wagner. And as he went to make the tag, Wagner got kicked off of the edge of the rope. by one of the Lucha guys. And the look on Kyle's face was kind of like, dude, where the hell were you? So I don't know. That might be part of that because I noticed that literally. I was like, that was an odd emotional reaction to what had been pretty much an entire matchup. Oh, my God. How many times can you have two people or all four people in the ring at once without going, all right, come on, get out.

1:32:00 Get out of here.

1:32:01 But yeah go ahead no go ahead i really wasn't i didn't have much to say right there.

1:32:07 So go ahead yeah because the other thing i mean talking about like whether it's talent build up or whatever one of the things that i had kind of remarked on was that i like again going back to my old jobber matches from the day where it was like you know completely undeveloped kind of good like i like Kyle and Von Wagner, even though I don't know who they are, like I was looking, I'm like, okay, they're not the sculpted chiseled or like, you know, the big Bram Strowman-y like kind of normal toys that are in the toy box for, for WWE stuff. So I, I found it refreshing that they were kind of like dad body wrestlers. Yeah. There's a little bit of a tire on there. It's not full, full blown, but like they

1:32:50 were kind of more playing guys who were out there making it. And I was like, where's that vibe? Where's the little guy? Where's the underdog vibe of like, come on, just give this scrappy little mud a bone. You know what I mean? And I kind of like, maybe, I mean, maybe that's part of the work there, but I love that. Personally, I love that kind of plain, like, let it not be a completely polished talent. Let them do it because, I mean, they worked the hell out of that match. Yeah, they absolutely did. Yeah, it was great, but again, I don't know if that speaks to the direction of it or whatever, but I found that kind of refreshing to not see that every single person is like, oh, you spend 36 hours in the gym every day.

1:33:35 For sure, for sure. And not to say that they're not in shape or anything, but to your point, your point, like Vaughn Wagner, he, he's got a presence about him.

1:33:44 He looks, looks great. But he does, he's not cut like, you know, like a Batista or something like that. You know, he doesn't look like, you know, Bobby Lashley, but he's certainly not anybody I want to get, you know, get in a fight with. I think he's got– there's certainly some upside there for our.

1:34:05 Buddy Cal Bloom, the new Von Wagner. His trunks, he definitely needs to get some better trunks. It looks like.

1:34:13 Something he just bought out of the bargain bin at Trunks R Us or something. It's like– it's just– yeah, he needs a little bit of a better look in that sense.

1:34:23 Do you have any surplus 1970 superhero spandex trunks? I'll give you whatever you got for it.

1:34:30 Can I?

1:34:31 Is that Gwen? Yeah. Are you Spider-Woman? All right.

1:34:39 So, yeah, we got that. So we got that there. Let's see. What else do we got?

1:34:42 We have this weird, weird, weird segment between Zion Quinn and Robert Stone.

1:34:50 Oh, you saved the best for last.

1:34:53 Yes, yes, yes.

1:34:54 There's a couple other things too. We're going to talk about briefly, briefly, but this is probably the last, the last of the bigger, bigger segments we're talking about.

1:35:02 This was a, this was really strange. So it was Zion Quinn. Obviously we saw even tonight, they showed a replay of Halloween havoc where Zion Quinn chokeslammed Robert Stone cause playing as Elvis Presley through a table. which led to Robert Stone calling Zion Quinto to the ring.

1:35:20 You said that with so much excitement. Like, it was something you really loved seeing. You're just slamming Elvis through a table.

1:35:28 Elvis through a table. God. Uh, yeah, I mean, it was, it was kind of, it was, it was definitely entertaining. It was certainly entertaining.

1:35:35 Um, but, uh, that led to Robert Stone calling, uh, Zion Quinn out to the ring later on that night, uh, or sorry, later on tonight, um, the two of them wind up in the ring together and it devolves into a dance off. Um, Robert Stone, Robert Stone starts dancing and asks rather than like asking or wanting to fight him, he goes into a dance off and starts clucking like a chicken, calling Zion a chicken for not wanting to dance.

1:36:05 And I'm just thinking, Zion Quinn, this badass that we've seen over the past few weeks, he's just going to clobber him and lay him out, and that's going to be the end of the segment.

1:36:16 And then he says, you know what? Why not? I'll do it. Or whatever. I forget exactly what he said.

1:36:21 But he's like, why not?

1:36:22 I'll do it.

1:36:23 And then he starts singing the theme to the Heartbreak Kid, Shawn Michaels. I don't I don't know what the hell to make of this segment at all.

1:36:34 It was a weird trajectory, Nate. Here's how I'm going to try to– if you want to go through the bullet points on the graph, right? So it started as Drunk Uncle at a Wedding where you're like, no, come on. Uncle Dave, please stop dancing to the young kids' music, right? And then it went over, and then at some point, then it turned into– You know, I used to work out back in the day, so I still got some strip removes, still potentially another drunk uncle, probably younger at a wedding. Then at one point, their dance got kind of Lombada where they were like, you know, swinging each other around. And like at one point, I even believe like Zion dipped. stone at one point and literally i asked you i was like are they gonna start making

1:37:21 out i don't understand like literally what is happening here then the coup de gras when stone jumps up into the arms of zion and i started hearing time of my life from freaking dirty dancing it was just like it never felt this way and i'm like what in the absolute like i.

1:37:43 I was looking at your face because we were on a video chat.

1:37:47 I was looking at his face. It was just kind of like mouth agape, like, what the hell am I watching? you know yeah and then.

1:37:53 It was like william shatner seeing the gremlin on the side of the airplane in twilight.

1:37:57 Zone oh my god you know it was just.

1:37:59 Like turn it off turn it off turn it.

1:38:02 Off you know this was this was really really bizarre and it was such a deviation for the zion quinn character i i'm really i'm really really really not sure what to make of the segment at all um like Cause so Zion Quinn, the past few weeks, you know, we've seen him, you know, he was again, one of these NXT 2.0 guys that have kind of just, recently debuted.

1:38:26 He's just come out, been really squash matches, but he's been to the point, super badass, really physical, no comedy, nothing. And this was just a complete flip of that. I'm not sure what to make of it because it's like the complete opposite direction of what I thought.

1:38:49 They were doing with Zion Quinn.

1:38:51 Yeah. Well, and not to mention Stone's office, which his outfit, which looked like Grimace as a male nurse at a summer barbecue wearing Clark Griswold's white shoes from vacation that cousin Eddie gave to him. It was the weirdest ensemble. Yeah, that is. Though he sold that flop rag doll.

1:39:15 Oh, God.

1:39:15 It was. Oh, my God.

1:39:18 Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.

1:39:27 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

1:39:41 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP.

1:40:04 No, Robert stone is a, he's certainly a bump machine.

1:40:06 Absolutely.

1:40:07 Bump machine. He's, he's, he's, he's actually really good in the ring too. He just hasn't wrestled in NXT.

1:40:12 Well, he's been in a couple matches, but I wouldn't say he's wrestled in NXT. You know, he's, he's kind of been more of a, he's been a manager character and he's, he's pulled it off incredibly well. This was really the first kind of, time he's been in the ring by himself without, uh, trying to represent somebody else.

1:40:30 He's always had Robert stone brand and he's had other people behind him. Um, and his, his brand was stolen away, but from him by, uh, by a woman named Frankie Mona. Oh, Frankie Monet, Kevin, there you go. There's another name for you. Frankie Monet.

1:40:44 She's somebody that I think we'll probably see again. Um, cause, uh, we haven't seen her in a little while here. Um, All right.

1:40:51 So let's, let's wrap things up here. There's a couple other things we haven't talked about, but you know what? It's been a weird show. So we're going to wrap up with something weird. And that was Joe Gacy. So we had a, we had Joe Casey showing, showing up with a little bit of a backstage vignette, you know, again, referring to his safe space and inclusion and things like that.

1:41:14 And he was also hyping up a Harland, the Parker Bourdreau, his new character, Harland, the shaved head kind of mysterious dude that was, was kind of showing up in the, in the crowd for all of Gacy's matches and kind of seems to be playing his uh, his first follower, if you will.

1:41:33 Um, so Jack, you had a couple of things that you said.

1:41:37 During this match, uh, during this, this vignette, um, that we we've already actually talked about on the show before.

1:41:45 I was, I was kind of, I wasn't surprised that I'm hitting that.

1:41:48 Are you sure? you haven't listened to the show? And I was like, no, I promise. Mr. Lindbergh, with whom we have never worked in this capacity, right?

1:41:59 Yep, at least not in the wrestling world.

1:42:03 So, what did you think of Joe Gacy and his follower, Harland?

1:42:08 I felt a very, like, I thought it was a weird cross between, like, a Kevin Owens, Bray Wyatt kind of a thing, where, like, he definitely has an extra grind, but I think that you know, properly nurtured and properly kind of fed into as long as they don't overplay it. Like, cause God help that you emulate or imitate another wrestler and their spot. Like, especially someone like Bray Wyatt, who is like, he is the porridge Goldilocks chose in terms of like the gimmicks he works. Like that man is beautiful.

1:42:40 It just never imitated, never duplicated. But I think that, This guy has some of that same potential because it's like something like kind of clean cut, but there's a darkness there. And it's like he wasn't– like sometimes you can sell that like in the first five minutes of the horror movie. Oh, that's the killer. Like he doesn't have that quite– like he's so much like a– well, he might– He might be the killer, but no, they'd never do that. I really got a strong vibe off of him. I really felt like, yeah, this kid's got moxie.

1:43:18 I want to see where he goes, see? I don't want to say the mobster thing there, but you know what I mean? He had a pop to him that is just kind of waiting to rise. His jiffy pop popcorn has just sat on the burner. We need to wait for the heat to go up.

1:43:37 No, and I'm kind of there with you. So the one thing that I do not like about Joe Gacy is the fact that he's glorifying the Gacy name. And that is something that he said, because he's used the name even outside WWE.

1:43:52 And so that is a thing. I don't like that.

1:43:56 I don't like that glorification of John Gacy, the serial killer and all that, especially with this kind of cult-like vibe.

1:44:03 That he's given off. So that's a little.

1:44:08 Just kind of like a faux pas for me, and it kind of feels uncomfortable. That said– I, the Bray Wyatt stuff that you brought up, um, that's all stuff we've been talking about a little bit on the show. And that's also stuff that's, that's kind of been circulating around the wrestling world.

1:44:24 People drawing a lot of comparisons to Bray Wyatt. Um, and I, I think it's, it's, I think it's a, it's a good thing.

1:44:32 Um, it's, it kind of does seem a little bit of a, of a rehash of Bray Wyatt, but also a little fresh as well. Um, when, when I look at Joe Gacy, I get those vibes that you're talking about.

1:44:44 Like, um, you know, he, he looks almost innocent, but at the same time, you see that twinkle in his eye of like, no, I'm not, I'm a bad dude.

1:44:54 And he brings that out in his matches. We obviously didn't see him in action tonight, but you know, he, he, he kind of preaches inclusion and, and, and stuff like that. And then he gets in his matches and, and He snaps almost.

1:45:07 Towards the end of the match. And then he kind of composes himself again.

1:45:09 That's the Owens piece that I was feeling that whole, like, no, it's not fair. Like that. I never, I like it. I like Kevin Owens, but I didn't love Kevin Owens because I was like, get out of here. Cry baby. Like what the hell are you talking about? Yeah. But no, I see what you mean.

1:45:25 Yeah, I know.

1:45:25 So he, he certainly interesting. Harland has his follower. There are a lot of potential out of this guy. He's a, he's a relatively new signee guy. His name Parker Parker Bourdreau, if I'm saying that correctly. And everybody was comparing him to Brock Lesnar. He's a, you know, a amateur wrestling champion and his, his hair before they shaved it off, he looked like Brock Lesnar 20 years ago. Um, like, and so it's kind of a stark difference in, in, cause we kind of, everybody thought that that was kind of the way that they were going to present him.

1:46:01 And they're not, they're kind of this, this mysterious Harland type of character. Um, and I, and I, I'm curious to see what, what actually happens when he gets in the ring, um, when this character actually, cause we haven't seen him wrestle Harland.

1:46:14 Uh, we've seen Gacy wrestle. We haven't seen Harland wrestle yet. Uh, so curious to see what, what happens when he actually gets in the ring, um, and where this entire stable goes, are they going to add more followers, you know, kind of similar to, to the Wyatt family, or are they going to keep this, you know, kind of a twosome, uh, that that's really where I want to, what I want to know.

1:46:33 Do you know what? I think a great work, uh, would be instead of him actively pulling followers to him, it would be one of those that it's the message that brought you like, he's like, like almost kind of like that reluctant cult leader kind of a thing where like, I didn't want all this. Like it's something that I, cause think about it, dude, like as an amazing, like political edge or stand about the whole like social media culture, which is kind of part also of his vibe. Right.

1:47:03 or am i missing yeah yeah 100 what is the whole thing of like hey i just put it out there i didn't mean for it to go all this kind of a way because he could really weigh and hinge on that kind of i'm not such a bad guy come on over for a barbecue like and they could really flip it it could be a very interesting twist of like he gets this following and said no i don't know it's almost kind of like the Well, yeah, I was talking about that, but I don't want those guys here. Like, no, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

1:47:35 I like that. I don't think it's something I've seen before.

1:47:39 No, you know, and I can't think of, like, I can think of a couple different, like, gimmicks like that, you know, cult following. You know, I mean, The Undertaker did something like that at one point with.

1:47:48 The corporate ministry and the Ministry of Darkness and stuff.

1:47:52 But in terms of, like, that reluctant cult follower that people just kind of flock to, like, I can't think of anything like that.

1:47:59 I like that. I really do. And especially where he is putting that message.

1:48:03 Out that there's, you know, that message of inclusion, and it's a message that On the surface, it's a good message, and I feel like it could easily trick some people that might be a little weak-willed, for lack of a better term.

1:48:20 So yeah, I think that could be a really cool direction for that.

1:48:24 Absolutely. Absolutely.

1:48:25 Yeah.

1:48:26 It'd be tough to pull it off in the end, but I think it would be worth it for the social commentary that they could attach to that. That would be like, holy crap, there's some very skilled writing here.

1:48:37 Yeah, no, for sure.

1:48:38 I like that Jack Birkenstock guy, so yeah, yeah.

1:48:44 Speaker 0 All right. So you know what, with that, I think we're going to call it a night guys. We're going to call it a night. Again, I am Nate Lindberg. You can follow me on Twitter at Nate Lindberg. I do the NXT hits and misses.

1:48:56 I'm going to get something up for you guys at some point in the next day or so. Cause I did not get a chance to write it tonight with our technical issues, but you know, Hey, things happen, guys, things happen. Tom and Kelly should be back next week.

1:49:10 If not, well, you know, then you're stuck with me again.

1:49:13 But Jack, Jack, we certainly appreciate, appreciate you filling in, especially last minute. Jack actually jumped in on this three or four minutes after NXT after NXT started. So that was part of the reason that we missed the first 15 minutes is trying to get things all set up and Yeah, all that stuff. But certainly appreciate your point of view. Like I said, I thought it was going to be an interesting perspective from somebody that hasn't seen NXT 2.0.

1:49:43 And I think it was. It was a really cool conversation. Thank you for that.

1:49:47 Yeah, well, thank you for asking me on board. And any time, you know, you're willing, I'll be a huckleberry, you know, whenever you need. So, yeah, I mean, again, I'm Jack Birkenstock Jr. from the Bodana Group. You can actually follow me on Twitter at BodanaJack, B-O-D-H-A-N-A-J-A-C-K. And, yeah, please, if you're interested in therapeutic gaming, check out the Bodana Group online. You can just look up therapeutic gaming or save against fear, and you can find us nice and easy like.

1:50:17 Absolutely. Absolutely.

1:50:18 All right, guys, we will, you know what, Kelly, I'm going to steal your line. We're going to see you in seven folks. We'll see you in seven.

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1:52:10 Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.

1:52:20 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

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