AEW DYNAMITE POST-SHOW (10/28): Keller & JB talk Queen Aminata's moment, Fletcher's challenge, Blood & Guts and Anarchy hype, Yuta cheered

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1:25 slash govip. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show. It's time to talk this week's AEW Dynamite. All right, JB, we saw a lot of developments for upcoming big matches and big events for AW tonight. Let's start with the closing scene, though. A real emotional moment that I think it's memorable and we don't see as often. It felt super genuine. Queen Amanada winning the TBS title in, I think, roughly 12 minutes.

2:08 I don't know if I got the time quite right. Over Persephone, she took a belt shot at ringside from Britt Baker survived to kick out and then hit a couple moves, including a running kick to the head and got the clean three count. And I don't know, eight or ten women roughly came out from the locker room and celebrated with her. She started crying when the ref was about to hand the belt to her. Her colleagues were teared up and crying. Again, it just felt like, oh, and Excalibur noted on commentary that it is no surprise the women are coming out to celebrate with her. because she's so well-liked behind the scenes. And it has been a journey for her to get to this spot. Renee did a ringside report at the start of the main

2:51 event and said that she's become a different wrestler since her match at Grand Slam France against Mercedes. And she said that it was only a matter of time before everyone realizes who she is and what she can do. And tonight was that moment. We can talk about the match and the merits of Queen Aminata and Arise, but there's something cool baking it into kind of the the narrative in the execution of AEW matches and the consequences that you can have somebody who pops up on TV now and then and loses and then gets better and eventually becomes a champion. And it feels like it was from climbing the ladder, getting better, going from losing uncompetitively to competitively to then winning some matches and then becoming

3:39 a champion. So you want to, I think you want to, as a booker, find times to do that so that fans feel like they can be rewarded for a so-called nobody, I'm putting air quotes up for the audio listeners, can actually make it. And that if you like somebody and you get behind them and you cheer them, there's actually a chance they'll have a moment like this. And I don't want to like blow it too out of proportion.

4:03 It was a secondary women's title match on a dynamite that was sort of secondary to all the storylines for upcoming pay-per-views and blood and guts next week. But I also don't want to dismiss that. I think this is a moment that Booker should look for opportunities to execute. And I think it went well tonight. How about you?

4:19 Yeah, no, I agree. I thought it was, it was a good match. And I thought it actually, you know, they didn't get it. You know, now they're got a great reaction. I would say coming out necessarily, which I, I don't know. I guess it's not to be unexpected, but I thought they really won the crowd over actually during the match to the point of even before the, you know, the locker room kind of came out at the end, they were getting, you know, she was getting legitimately cheered by the, by the fans and they won them over. And I agree that I think we've been on a journey with Amnada, particularly since the Grand Slam France, I think is when they really kind of put a spotlight on her. And, you know, Mercedes gave her a

4:51 bit of a rub and she got, you know, I think a couple of promos on that, on that show where we got to learn a little bit more about her. And obviously we learned that, you know, she had a connection to France to Paris to a certain extent as well. So yeah, no, I thought it was a good moment. I thought it was a really good match and really good main event. I guess the one I do agree.

5:08 I'm just not a fan. I wish they wouldn't have to do the overrun. by like 15 minutes and make that, you know, cause I think I'm fine with it. I was actually perfectly fine with it being the main event. We get 52 of these a year and this is for a secondary title, but that, that happens occasionally, but it's a little bit of a disservice to go. I don't know. What was it? Maybe like, I don't know, 12, 13 minutes over the hour before the match started. So you're probably have a little less eyeballs on it, but outside that everything else I really enjoyed about it.

5:32 So.

5:33 Yeah. Yep. And, and I mean, they haven't doing overruns lately. Um, not everybody, uh, has a DVR service that knows that there's an overrun. And so, you know, you have to remember to record the show after it. And if you have HBO Max, then you can go back and fast forward and catch it and stuff like that. But there is a sort of baked in sort of annoyance with the show just sort of going however long it's going to go from a convenience standpoint. And then you just also have the argument that, you know, two hours is a good length for a pro wrestling show. And if you, you know, if they do a three minute or four minute overrun, it adds some drama where you don't know when the match is going to finish. But yeah, when

6:14 the show just starts becoming officially two and a half hours, but like schedule it for two and a half hours.

6:21 Yeah.

6:22 You know, like I saw a video on threads of some guy walking through a store. I think it was Hobby Lobby. And it was like always 40% off. And he looked at the camera and goes, well, then just make it the damn price. If it's always 40% off, just list the damn price. No one's getting a deal. So to me, it comes to mind with Dynamite. Just make it two and a half hours. Stop with this silliness of you never know how much of the evening you're going to have to commit. But that aside.

6:52 That's a small point. Overall, I thought everything else was really good about it, actually.

6:58 It's just a chance for us to have a parenthetical gripe. It doesn't take away from Well, it takes away in the sense that maybe some people missed it. But yes, very cool. I think Queen Amanata is likable and marketable. Do you think there should have been more on Dynamite in terms of following up on what we learned about her at Grand Slam France to build to this moment?

7:22 Or do you think there was enough? I would argue there should have been in the first hour more than just... We had the Baker... Persephone promo. But was there anything on with Aminata? What did they do?

7:37 At the first hour?

7:38 Or even before the match? That's what I'm trying to recall.

7:42 Honestly... Yeah, maybe they did something small, but I think it was, yeah, like you said, we had the Persephone Baker aspect, which is good.

7:51 Oh, they did. She was standing with, that's why I was, that's why in my mind I was kind of asking like it. I had, when I say this shit on more, I think of Video Package recapping Queen Aminata's journey and kind of building this up. If you're going to have a title change, you're going to have this emotional moment afterwards, right?

8:10 something that makes this tbs title match feel like it isn't a throwaway match on collision that happens to be last on dynamite and i don't think they convey that so that'd be if i'm looking for something to critique because i'm cheering for this moment to mean more and for people to be invested from the beginning i think something along those lines would have been good but points to them for having the backstage segment where lexie and aaron are viewed queen amanata and persephone they're standing at either side of her with brick baker and uh baker got to you know be snotty to her and uh amanata told baker to stay out of it so certainly there was there was something but yes and i would apply that rule to basically all the main events like

8:48 i think i said last week there should have been more elia draganoff to establish kind of who he was and why speedball is facing them so.

8:55 Yeah no um yeah they i mean they could have done more um for sure uh like we talked about the segment they usually can and honestly i It was a bigger moment than I actually expected because I wasn't necessarily surprised by the title change. Kind of making that the main event would be kind of like someone mentioned unsatisfying in the comments. I didn't see who, but it would have been unsatisfying. I think if it would have just been Persephone, it's kind of the main event. So I think this was satisfying in the sense that the culmination that unexpected culmination to a certain extent, because I didn't expect to get that much attention from the locker room.

9:26 But like you said, apparently not. you know, that highlighted the announcement, highlighted how well, like she is backstage, which we weren't aware of. So, I mean, we did learn something a little bit more about her tonight. It just wasn't in the buildup to the, to the moment. But I liked that aspect a lot, actually.

9:39 So, and this is what secondary titles are for, you know what I mean? Like you want, I mean, Mercedes has, Mercedes has had the TBS title and it's been like, well, is she the top star? And like, if you have somebody who is clearly established as a top tier star and they have a secondary title, it's like, well, what, what's the point of the world title? What's the difference in all that? I think it's so hard with AEW, with all the men's titles that have, like, I don't think any fan would give you a clear, a consistent, clear hierarchy of the belts, other than the world title is the most important. But I like, this is an example of what I would advocate for is you've got a main world title and it's people who have maybe

10:15 passed through the TBS division, so to speak. But they won't go back to it. They've graduated from it to the world title scene. And this is for the people at the Persephone and Queen Amanata level. And it's a chance to test whether they have what it takes in terms of crowd reaction, match quality to rise up and become a contender to the world title. I mean, that is what the Intercontinental title was in the 80s and 90s.

10:42 and beyond, but especially then. And sometimes it's just someone who's stuck there. Tito Santana was IC champ when I started watching Randy Savage and Tito have their great matches at WBF house shows in the 80s. And Tito was kind of perennially at that level. But he was a gatekeeper for Randy, who ended up becoming much bigger than that.

11:01 And that's part of the fun of this. So I like this booking of Queen Amanata. And I guess my question to you, JB, is, How good is she? What do you see in her character-wise, look-wise, presentation, ring work, pulling the crowd in? Is she somebody who should have a nice, memorable run and maybe can show that she's worthy of moving up beyond that?

11:24 Yeah, I mean, I think if they do what they did tonight and really highlight her in the moment, as we talked about after the moment as well, and they put a spotlight on her, they give her the reps. She's been getting them over the last month plus-ish, and she's been involved over at least a year plus now.

11:39 But if they give her the reps, give her the moment, she's improved in the ring. I think she's improved on the mic as well to a certain extent. You know, that's all you can really ask for is a person that's kind of, you know, performing in the moment and continually gets better where I'd be like, oh, that promo was better than last. And tonight's moment was, I think, obviously the biggest moment of her career to this point.

11:57 I thought she kind of lived up to that moment. So, you know, if she's doing that for this, there's no reason to think she can't continually keep improving. Now, I don't think that's going to happen, you know, six months from now, probably not even a year from now. But beyond that, you know, I think anything's possible. You know, I think Tecla got to that point, and I wouldn't have said that right out of the box either. So I don't think Amanata's too far off that level at level of technical started at when she was in AW and she actually, she eventually became champion and, you know, she's gotten over to, to a great extent herself. So I think that's a, you know, that's kind of my comparison and my ceiling, um, I think right now.

12:30 So let's pause and introduce the show and, uh, then we'll talk, we'll throw some chat comments up, uh, about this, a topic, and then we'll get into other developments on the show. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch daily casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a bit and see if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows, like the Wade Keller post shows, the Wade Keller podcast flagship, our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch daily cast lineup. Again, all commercial-free, a

13:13 nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Wednesday, October 28th, 2026. I'm Wade Keller, host of the show, editor, publisher,

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16:29 Thank you, Wade. It's always great to be here talking to you. So absolutely.

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17:50 Yeah. I don't have your graphic loaded or I would have thrown it up. Add it to our little library here. The to-do list never ends of things that I notice. All right. Great, JB. Well, always great to talk with you on the show here. You can talk with us in the chat if you're watching us live on the YouTube channel. By the way, if you're listening to us on the podcast side, I think you're invited to join us on our live post show as always. Just go to MyTVReports at PWTorch. So for Dynamite on Wednesday night, there's a link there. It'll take you right to the live feed. Or you can just go to YouTube and search for PWTorch and subscribe and set an alert for when we go live. We're live roughly five minutes after

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19:05 we had some comments in the chat on the main event. I'll, uh, bring oh first uh daryl friedman says all right show bad main event hmm all right um mark paschetti says tony did a disservice to putting persephone and amanada in the main event the same match would have been better an hour earlier knowing what make people feel satisfied for watching matters match order wise why do you think they ended with this is it uh sign of we want to close with an emotional moment he knew what it would be like um and it's in the main event spot has some equity that means you're a main eventer it's not a mid-card title change it's a main event title change or did you want to get the other angles in during the core part of the show in

19:49 case there was any drop-off at the end with some viewers.

19:52 Yeah i mean i think it was twofold one is for the the first reason you mentioned that you know obviously it was i think it was a feel-good moment it was an emotional moment that he won't you know it's you bring up the locker room like that and i'm sure people volunteered even suggested doing that so you know it makes sense that obviously you'd Want that moment to end your show, leave the people feeling good. And secondly, I think it just really means they're probably behind Aminata.

20:17 And it's kind of to show that. And sometimes that's what main events are used for as well. I guess I just kind of disagree that it was dissatisfying. And I kind of disagree that the crowd wasn't into it. I thought maybe the reaction... slowly continually got more into it as which is what you want throughout a match they popped really well for the for the victory and they stayed.

20:36 With channing amanada after a kickout.

20:38 Yeah they stayed with it through the celebration at the end i mean i thought that's kind of exactly what you want so i guess i just see things maybe a little different not that you know and i agree i do agree with with the run over aspect but um you know i i guess i just disagree with with durell and mark's opinion on that um but you know i've been entitled but um Yeah, I thought it was a satisfying moment, and I thought– there's 52 of these main events a year. I mean, who's to– Matt Shorter, you can pick Matt Shorter all you want, but, I mean, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean, typically, Tony puts most important stuff on the top of the first hour of the show anyway, so.

21:16 Yeah, well, I think you want to protect the main event having some equity. It doesn't mean the biggest match always has to be there. Sometimes it's parody, or sometimes it's a matter of personal opinion. I think ideally what you would do, and you can make the argument for Ilya Dragon up in Speedball last week, is if you do end with it, build it up, make it feel special with some sort of extra elbow grease, pizzazz, in terms of a video package or a recap or something that just kind of repeats especially if you're if it's a if not everybody's going to perceive it as a main event very small sample size anecdotally some of our chat didn't last week is speedball really a main event opponent i like speedball but like out of nowhere suddenly

21:56 it's a main eventer against the new signee why gives give us a reason it again it can be a 20 second video package um but remind people it's a main event and build it up so that the viewer at home just through sort of repetition And through the credibility of AW's narrative machinery endorsing it, it makes you believe this must be a big deal. It's worth sticking around for. And I think they benefit from doing it.

22:22 It's free. I mean, it's just 20 seconds of TV time. So that's, I think, the argument we're kind of making.

22:27 And to be fair, they did do– like I said, they did do the– they could have maybe done a little bit more, but they did do the promo. I think that was in the first hour that we talked about earlier as well. So it's not like they didn't pay– you know, any, any lip service to the main event, they could typically do better.

22:40 Yeah.

22:41 I think, I think, I think we all agree on most people agree on that.

22:44 Um, Last week, I made the argument, like, Will Ospreay, anytime he's on TV, they should make a big deal out of it. Like, he's the world champion when he wrestles. We are privileged with Will Ospreay. He's got demands, all kinds of things. I've written about it in the forum and talked about it on the Wade Keller Hotline this week, too.

22:58 You know, WWE, I talked about this on the Wade Keller Hotline. I've done news updates every day for, like, five, six days now. And one of the things we talked about was why Oba Femi wasn't on Raw on Monday. And Oba's absence makes his appearances feel more special. And that's WWE's philosophy. And so... there's something to be said for promoting Will Asprey when he's on. But Will Asprey is an established top star. It applies in a different way, but kind of similar when you have wrestlers who aren't top stars, give them... shine them up, like, like make it seem like we believe that they are worthy of the main event. This, and I, I do, it's important to protect titles, but I also think it's important to

23:40 protect that main event spot and not make it seem like a dumping ground and overrun when they don't think people are still watching or, or whatever. So, um, just even with dragging off last week, give, give, give a little something extra when you go on last, protect the idea that that's a moment that counts even in a meta sense that You don't want to give away it's a title change, but if you put that match in the main event, you're kind of signaling to the savvy audience.

24:03 We got something special for you worth sticking around for. Signal that more. That's all.

24:07 Yeah.

24:08 And I think, you know, that's a complaint I think you could have across wrestling to a certain extent because I don't really want... I used to watch WWE just in a while now, but even then, I remember when they had a main event that they weren't really, like, super proud of, they would kind of... And then you could always tell when they weren't, like, hyping it up.

24:21 And then that actually signals to me, obviously, like, okay, I shouldn't be as excited about this moment or what have you, but... Well, they don't want you thinking about it.

24:29 Yeah, exactly.

24:29 And I think that's the thing wrestling in general. Now, obviously... haven't watched a bb but i know they've done they typically do did a pretty good pretty good job at that but um another thing too is i did like that package before the main event talking about all the big moment aw moments in st louis yeah that's cool that was another signal that this is something big could happen here you know what i mean and they want you ah you can frame this as a big moment and they kind of you know refer that i think taz or not taz uh excalibur at the end said like another big AEW moment in St. Louis. So I think, you know, that clearly that was something that they wanted you to have in the, in the back of your mind.

25:03 I actually kind of liked that touch that they did tonight, which I don't remember them ever doing before.

25:06 So.

25:08 Yes. I would say from a standpoint of how would they know, you know, like, like to me, what you know is Aminata is a great story and you should be excited to see her tune in to see this, her story be told. And that's something you can do if this were real to say, well, It's a big moment. If you signal to fans, expect, and I'm not saying you're necessarily saying that, but it's sort of, you might be saying that like, Hey, stay tuned folks, big things happen in St. Louis and we've booked something big for you.

25:36 I think you want to be careful of that.

25:37 Yeah, that's, that's true. And I wouldn't do it all the time, but this also, it was a, you know, a main event, secondary title match. So in theory, if, if, you know, if an upset has happened, then that would be a big moment. You know, big moment could happen. It's not like necessarily new in, in cave, I guess you'd say. And I would, like I said, it's something I do all the time. It's kind of like their pay-per-view thing where they kind of do the run over from the pre-show. I mean, I would do that maybe once or like twice a year, but to do it every show, then it kind of obviously loses its luster a little bit. So it's similar to that.

26:04 Yeah. A couple more chat comments and move on to other topics from the shows. Darrell follows up. It was bad because of placement, crowd reactions, and didn't feel like something built up to be worthy of a long overrun. Without context and buildup, it felt like a gold watch moment. Um, another comment here, uh, as someone, Mark Paschetti says, as someone who doesn't follow AW like a rabid fan, I was only slightly aware of Amanata's journey, but Tony did nothing to make me care before the match happened. The short promo was sad. Um, Ducky D says, I thought Amanata was terrible in the ring when she first got signed.

26:36 All flair, no substance. Her ring work was diva ish. She's a lot better now, but she has plenty of room to grow, in my opinion. Paulder Repeat says, I hope this is an opportunity to feature Aminata more. And Paulder Repeat adds, I would like to see Persephone stay as well. I think they should ditch Baker, though. um ducky d says i like overruns every now and then it feels like bonus content it makes the finish less predictable every now and then is different than and like you just like a.

27:04 Five to ten minute overrun i don't necessarily like a 30 minute.

27:06 Overrun right that's where it becomes just don't say always 40 off just say it's a two and a half hour show uh yeah uh oh and mark paschetti says this felt too much like my world's win as someone who didn't know what the main event was the presentation here was amateurish But Ducky D counters and says, the crowd is on fire. I don't get the problem. Most of these people stick around for another hour and a half of collision. They had plenty of energy. Yeah, go ahead, JB.

27:31 We're closer. We have more connection with Amanat, I think, than my world, who is much newer to the scene when she won than Amanat was. Amanat's been around. I mean, it's not like she's just completely out of nowhere, upset champion. She's had moments. I mean, she had a world championship match that was on a premier Grand Slam show. So this isn't.

27:48 Out of nowhere.

27:50 My recall is they did more with Maya World to kind of frame her story and her background.

27:54 Yeah, it was the moment with her brother passed away, but that was a relatively short period of time. It was. I would say, yeah, probably two, maybe more than that. Honestly, I don't really remember.

28:05 But AW does enough title matches. It'd be weird to. build up every frame, every title matches. Let's do a big background on the challenger. You know, Josh Alexander, let's do a big story on Josh Alexander getting a TNT title shot. That'd be weird. But I think that's why whatever goes in the main event should just by policy be treated like, with a little extra elbow, Chris, a little extra pizzazz, a little extra something that just, again, protects the equity of the main event. And again, like you're saying, Jimmy, don't predictably make it something big all the time where there'd be no way to foresee it.

28:41 Cause I think most people thought Darby against Josh Alexander is a bigger match than this. So, but still I just, I'm pitching, make the main event shine a little bit more. It's kind of like Monday night football for all these decades, you know, or Sunday night football. they built, there's just a little more pizzazz to the presentation because it's prime time, the only game on, and everyone in the country can see it versus the regional games that are on Sunday afternoons.

29:04 It doesn't mean the game is bigger than the Sunday afternoon game necessarily because you can't predict that, but there is something extra special about the way it's presented that feels extra in a good way.

29:15 Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, not all main events are created equal either, so they shouldn't all necessarily be treated equal, just as like not all Monday Night Football games are treated equal. Like this week was like kind of a dud with the, you know, the big markets, but it was the Cowboys versus Eagles. Sorry, Zach Barber, but yeah, just a game that really didn't feel like it had much consequence, but it's like a wrestling main event in the same ways. If you treat them all equal, then they're not. If you treat everything special, nothing special either, but you have to, there's levels of how you treat something.

29:40 Yeah.

29:41 So, yeah.

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30:45 See you in the paradise. All right, very good. Let's shift to some other topics from the show today. probably won't spend a lot of time on this, but FTR and Motor City Machine Guns and their third match and their best of five series. What did you, what have you thought of the series so far, JB? And what did you think of tonight's match? They went up about 13 minutes. You know, Machine Guns win with a leverage three count out of nowhere. Your thoughts?

31:15 Yeah, I'll fully admit that there's a little bit of bias in the scenario in the sense that, you know, I'm a, motor city machine guns fan um i have been you know probably since most of their existence but uh actually used to see uh actually at the gym occasionally that i went to um quiet comedy seemed really nice but um so yeah but no uh as far as this feud in general is it kind of having you know the motor city moniker like the machine guns do can be a hindrance sometimes to getting over to live crowds who aren't in michigan um but that being said i'm I did hear they got a Motor City chant started tonight. All things considered, that's pretty good in my opinion, kind of being, you know, St. Louis, which is,

31:52 you know, rather random. But I think that it would also be of a benefit to them to, you know, and this is obvious, but to do some, they should have done probably some promos either before and or after some, any of these best of five series matches. Now, granted, I didn't see the collision one, but even if some of them are prerecorded to get us a little bit more insight into the Motor City Machine Guns, I mean, I think the idea is that they're in reworks and get them over, and they're kind of at a point in their career where maybe it doesn't matter so much if we're, like, super connected to their personality. Because, I mean, I don't know how much longer they have, and maybe they're trying to do their best of hits. But I

32:28 think they should probably do a little bit more. And I know it's not their strong suit either at this point. I know.

32:33 It was right for a swipe or a dig to just go, well, you need personalities to do a personality profile. And they haven't established anything too distinct in that regard.

32:43 I think with them even just showing their history that they have access to would be better than what they've done so far.

32:50 Who owns ROH footage? How could Tony possibly have access to the.

32:53 They have a huge history with ROH. I mean, obviously, I think they're probably most known for their TNA run.

32:59 Yeah, for sure.

32:59 But still, I mean– they've done quite a bit in ROH and even outside in other indies that they can probably get footage for it in Japan as well. So, yeah.

33:06 And recently WWE.

33:08 Yeah.

33:08 Yeah. Okay. So the main developments of the show had to do with setting up Blood and Guts with a video, nice video package narrated by Dean Malenko, by the way, that gave him credit for the narration of that. But they opened with Danny Garcia and John Moxley against Jay White and David Finlay and They just went right to it.

33:29 We ended up with White hitting a Blade Runner for the win in about 14 minutes and then a big brawl and attack afterwards. My thinking when they presented this match was most people watching Dynamite, or roughly half, didn't see collision. They didn't see Jay White's promo. They didn't really have a chance for the angle last week to sort of settle. And sort itself out with an identity to this new group. We just had Excalibur saying they're the cut. They were the last outfit briefly. Now they're the cut. They just went to this match. And to me, you do a big angle like that. And now the Death Riders are kind of christened. And it was very clear in this match. Officially, top to bottom, baby faces,

34:10 even Excalibur said, who thought we'd live in a world where either you'd have got that kind of crowd pop when he had a moment in the match. And Garcia's playing to the crowd and pumping his fists in the crowds with him. So all is forgiven with the Death Riders. No more FU, Yuta. Don Callis is the lone person for that chant currently. So I was like, man.

34:30 Big angle last week, and I was just doing a tag match. To me, this felt like save this for a pay-per-view. And if you didn't have calendar booking and you weren't trying to wedge in blood and guts on a certain date each year or rush through this angle, and I know they had some disruptions with the tragedy with Pac. But my first thought was, man, this could be a pay-per-view match. There should be enough heat here and a grudge. And you got two of the top, maybe the top two members of the cut. And Moxley and his right-hand man, Garcia, give us more than just ringing the bell and having a match. It just felt like a random collision match that you might find on a Saturday night. But by the end, you kind of

35:04 realize since they are building up to a big faction versus faction gimmick match, they kind of had to do something quickly. So I give them a pass on this, although it defines it down a little bit that we just sort of get right to it without a little bit of digesting and recapping what happened beyond that. a split screen clip during ring entrances. So those are some of my thoughts in the end, all worked out fine.

35:26 JB.

35:26 Yeah. Actually, what I noted, you, you mentioned it briefly, but you know, Daniel Garcia seemed more over tonight than I ever remember him being. So, you know, I noted that, you know, I wonder if this full-fledged death riders face during we'll end up doing him more good. That's kind of ever happened to this point in his run in AEW.

35:43 And I also think that it's further proof, you know, what you often say, Wade, is that truly defined characters tend to be the ones who draw the most interest and investment. When they have a clear direction, they get the most reaction. And it's clear how almost instantly, like you said, Yuta and Garcia are getting pretty good face reactions. Granted, Yuta always got that few, but it always felt like, like you said, it was like the you suck Kurt Angle chants, which is something that people do rather than something people are actually invested in. Whereas I feel like they're invested in both of those guys' faces tonight, which is saying a lot in a couple weeks building to this, you know, this full-fledged face turn. So I was impressed

36:16 by that. And then, you know, I predicted that the Death Riders conglomeration and Dog's Bang Bang Gang feud would lead to anarchy in the arena at full gear. And I think it works for this big of a turn. But I wish that they'd have spaced out Blood and Guts and Anarchy in the Arena a bit more on the calendar. However, as you noted, I think a few of these things were probably delayed by like a week or even possibly two weeks, which probably would have worked a lot better in that regard. But obviously circumstances and the kind of like you said, having the Grand Slam France more like house show where you had to kind of stack it, which not necessarily like few base matches.

36:51 Then obviously the pack tribute set things back a week or two, which definitely affected the overall build, the build, particularly the wrestle dream, but it's, you know, obviously going to slightly have rippling effects to the blood and guts and then, then full gear as well. So.

37:03 Yeah. I, Anakin, Irene and blood and guts shouldn't be within, three months of each other or two months of each other, six weeks, we'd be complaining, but it's like the same time the build is going on. And they're just a couple of weeks apart.

37:16 So they used to do blood and guts in like June and July. And I don't know why it was the last like two years. They changed that, but I think maybe to counter like war games, maybe and get that first before war games possibly, but who, you know, who knows.

37:27 And that's, that's not a good reason when now you're just stacking two matches that should have space to breathe. and be differentiated. I mean, they're very different matches, but they're also same in some key ways. And it's two factions in a feud, having a gimmick match that is not in one ring, you know, with some ringside action, but, um, they each have their distinctions.

37:49 And I feel like Anarchy of the Arena was typically at like double or nothing. Wasn't it? If I remember correctly, this is the first time it's been a full gear, which is weird.

37:57 Yeah.

37:57 So I don't know. It's a lot, but it is what it is. And I thought, um, obviously I've been an advocate for the death riders choosing sides and they're all in one side heel or face and get the, the narrative behind it. And they are baby faces. Marina Shafir baby face. Now we'll talk about her in a moment.

38:18 John Moxley, you know, playing to the crowd. And obviously he's won people over with all the emotional ups and downs that, that he's been through storyline wise in real life. So I, I think it, it works, but, It was good to have a live collision where they gave Jay White a chance to cut a mid-ring promo and establish things for a lot of the audience to see it, even though I didn't think it was a C-plus segment, I think, for establishing yourself. And great on a curve because you have expectations for Jay White, too. But that said, I think it has time to work itself out. And in a way, Anarchy in the Arena is going to be the way that actually the cut gets established rather than establishing them first. So it ultimately all's well that

39:08 ends well by December, the cut one way or the other, we see them on camera together. We kind of get a sense of the chemistry between them. You know, they established tonight, Jay White, David Finlay, two of the top people are, are cohesive in this way now. So, I mean, overall a thumbs up with accommodations being made in the evaluation to the schedule being, you know, pre, a little bit bunched up and then exacerbated by the POC situation.

39:34 Yeah. And I mean, I think, You know, this is actually was probably kind of well needed for Jay White, just kind of being a stop and start as he is. And honestly, my favorite Jay White is a heel Jay White. So I'm glad that it got to this point and it kind of makes sense why the turns happened when they did. And also, I would say I think Jay White and Moxley is going to be the focus of the kind of classic this year, which is something that I think we can look forward to coming. I think in probably late November, December timeframe is typically kind of when they have that. So I think they're going to build it around that this year. They had a match last year, and I think that's what is going to be built around this year, which I think we can

40:07 all look forward to.

40:08 Yep, for sure. Uh, Danny Garcia, a positive repeat says, uh, Garcia is so funny to me. He's like death riders, little brother. He wants to be like Moxley when he grows up. Although he's probably like 30 years old. Um, I, I mean, I like Garcia with Mox. I mean, you can tell there's just a genuine bond between them. Um, Mox likes hanging out with Garcia and vice versa. And that comes through same with weird or Yuta. It doesn't feel like a hastily assembled team for like, you know, like, this is if we're going to go back to the 80s we'll do it like the b brian blair and jim bradsell were never besties but they were put together because they had similar body types and they can put on masks and pretend you can't tell them apart even

40:42 though everyone could um there are teams that are pretty hey max caster and anthony bones tony khan's like hey you two would be good together i like this and they put them together but they you know i mean they were pals but they weren't they weren't each other's primary social group and you know it it's nice when that is the case. And I think we certainly get that sense with Claudio too, obviously Mox and Claudio in real life also tight. So you have a likable, respected group of wrestlers now who are, who have genuine bonds outside of the ring and then genuine toughness and ring skills where you go, well, Garcia looks like a little wimp to me and I like booing him, but if he's good enough to be Moxley's pal and hang with him,

41:20 he must, he's cool with me. Like there's a rub that Mox gives him same to a degree with Yuta and, Claudio, though, got an extra push today. Zach Barber says, can we talk about how they're making Claudio look like Super Claudio, at least until the Shillelagh comes out? And Paulder-Fepic goes, yeah, the Swiss Superman is back.

41:37 Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, it feels like almost they're elevating Claudio to the position that Pac had kind of as the. you know, kind of, I thought it was going to be Gabe kid, but maybe it's going to be Claudio and they're going to put in, put in work to making him credible in that type of role where he's, he's never not been credible, but it's just, you know, he's kind of been the 50 to guy and they haven't kind of put him in those kind of, you know, cold, serious, believable promos like pack, but maybe if they position him in a bit of a more serious light and give him more credibility, as far as like wins from a win loss perspective, that that's a role that could make sense for him. And

42:08 it almost feels like they're trying to do that over the last few weeks. Yeah.

42:12 I like it. I mean, I'm a, I understand there is a sense in Vince McMahon ahead of way back when he goes, he's too Swiss or something. And it's just such a famous line to go back to. Claudio at times does seem like he's just always laughing. He's always got like a little inside joke going on or, you know, he just wants to crack a little joke to lighten the mood. But I like serious Claudio. I like when he carries himself like I'm serious about what I do and I'm a serious guy and little moments of levity here and there are fine. And we had that tonight. Rude Dog, by the way, adds the Death Riders will be bound for life after the POC tragedy.

42:49 Indeed.

42:49 Yeah. So, yeah. Is there... Can Claudio be... rehabilitated if i'm hesitant to use a word but like elevated after just sort of being a guy in the death riders for so long who's like bigger than garcia and yuda but you know would do jobs and wasn't really featured on promos and clearly was standing in the background even behind pock to a degree in the hierarchy is there a way to heat them up and did tonight take a step in that direction Yeah.

43:16 I mean, I think they can, I think there's going to be a lot of heavy, I mean, she's a heavy lifting, but I think there's going to be a lot of focused effort in doing so. Um, and it's going to have to be well thought out, but I certainly think it's possible. I mean, he's definitely has the credibility in the ring. I mean, that's never been doubted.

43:31 I don't think. And I think if you refine his promo, like you said, make him be a bit more serious. Um, I think he could probably be capable of it if he's kind of told to do so and kind of lean, you know, you know, kind of pushed in the kind of that type of direction. Like I said, it's not going to happen overnight. It's not going to necessarily be easy, but I think it might be worthwhile. Like I said, clearly they're going to be invested in the Death Riders for a bit longer, at least as faces. So if you're going to do so, you kind of need that, that secondhand democracy type role that, that pot pack filled.

44:02 I think gate kid would probably be the better option, but if they decided to go to Claudio and he steps up, I mean, I definitely have no problem with that either.

44:08 So.

44:09 Yeah. Would you be in favor of Seamus being added to the death riders given the history of Claudio, or does that not seem like a good fit?

44:18 I wouldn't necessarily, I wouldn't hate it per se. I don't know if I'd necessarily be in favor of it either, but, I feel like the EW roster is pretty full right now as it is in space and breath that can be given to other wrestlers that have a little bit more future and a little bit more left in the tank, I guess you'd say. Sheamus is definitely up there and he's had some health and injury issues over the years.

44:42 That being said, if you wanted to come in and do a short run with the Death Riders and maybe do a bar reunite with Claudio, I could see that working to a certain extent. I wouldn't make that the central focus of the Death Riders, but if they wanted to make a period with the Death Riders, a portion of the story, that could work. But I could go either way on it, I guess I would say.

45:04 Yeah.

45:04 Yeah.

45:05 I don't, Zach Barber asked about that. I don't, I don't, I don't have strong feelings either way. If he's in shape and motivated and they kind of find a way for him to have chemistry with that group, that's fine. I can bring them in and have them do something different too. And maybe be a mystery partner for Claudia was a one-off just as a little tip of the hat to their past, but otherwise actually have him just be in a, in kind of a separate feud feuding with, you know, Brian cage or something, you know, off to the side instead of adding them to the death riders.

45:28 Cause it doesn't feel like a great fit, even if Claudio and Seamus have, have that, that connection. You know that last segment you're just listening to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the

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46:20 All right.

46:21 Let's bring Azan into the conversation. He attended the event tonight in St. Louis. Azan, thanks for calling in.

46:28 Welcome.

46:29 Good evening. How are you guys doing? Doing good. Doing good. So we started the A block of the show talking about Queen Amunad and the main event. And there's a little bit of disagreement, but maybe. Some, a sense of agreement that, okay, if she wasn't super over coming out at the beginning and the fans weren't looking at this as like a worthy main event of Dynamite inherently across the board with everyone in the crowd, that the match won them over and it felt like a special moment by the end. What is your assessment from being in the building? What were the, what was the emotional process and progress of the presentation of Aminata and Persephone tonight?

47:09 Well, Queen Aminata had like a great support from the crowd, like something I was shocked by. Like, I feel like You know, some people, like, you never feel like they're going to get any crowd. Like, I was shocked by her getting, like, crowd chants from people chanting her name because I thought she wasn't on that type of level.

47:25 Did, as a match progressed, fans invest in rooting for her? I mean, we heard the Amanata chant. It seemed pretty apparent they did. But did you sense that it took the match to win them over or that they were behind Amanata to a certain degree all along and they just peaked as they do for any match when the climax comes?

47:41 I felt at the beginning there was like a strong support for her, but not like support enough like she was going to win the title. You can tell the crowd had their favor going into it. Persephone, it was more of the breaker show at first as the match was going on. She was doing crowd work and stuff like that. But once the match started going, it was like an upswell for Queen Amiyama in a way.

48:03 So we're just talking about the Death Riders. How popular are they right now? And were you surprised to hear a Wheeler Yuta positive instead of negative chant? Yes.

48:12 Every time Death Riders and the cut came out, the whole crowd was standing, no matter the brawls were. I'm going to say people have been criticized for the Death Riders for the longest time. But those brawls were so exciting that I feel like they can sell the pay-per-view on that match alone. Not even the main event. I feel like, in a way, you can... put Anarchy Arena over Will Ospreay and Kyle Fletcher in a way. I know that might be a little outrageous saying, but I feel like that's the way television is going. How do you feel about that idea?

48:44 I mean, Anarchy Arena feels like it's hard to follow that, but. But Fletcher and Osprey seem like they would be fully capable. So we should establish that people are kind of listening to our post show blind without reading the results or watching the show or listening to my weight color hotline on the VIP side of things, which recaps the show start to finish, which I know a lot of people are VIP members do that. They don't get to see all the shows. Listen to my 20 minute recap. And then they jump to the post show. If you didn't see it, Kyle Fletcher beat Jack Perry and then afterwards announced that he wants a title shot. And then shortly thereafter, Tony Khan made it official. He made his case about

49:16 three big wins recently, and he wants to prove that he is indeed the best. So we have that match. JB, is that a world title match that absolutely positively, for the sake of Osprey and Fletcher, it goes on last. Anarchy in the Arena is too gimmicky. It shouldn't be last. Or is Anarchy in the Arena so special and sort of almost like the show's over, but now we're bringing Anarchy in the Arena. Like it's almost like an appendage gimmick match, and it doesn't matter because it's so different.

49:43 It actually can follow a world title match. Where are you on that?

49:46 Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would be offended if Henrik and Narita went on last. Like I was treated almost like a lights out type match where, you know, in and of itself can be a bit confusing. But I wouldn't be offended because there is a lot of star power in that match for this particular match. And, you know, with what's happened with the Death Riders and the face turn and the crowd investment in them as baby faces. I mean, that wouldn't be crazy to me.

50:10 You know, I tend to be typically a little bit old school, though. And I do think there's so much potential in Fletcher. I want him to be highlighted in a match with obviously the face of the company right now in Osprey. I also feel like this is something that they might revisit in the future. So that, you know, that might lead to the idea that maybe Anarchy in the Arena could go on after because this isn't the last time we'll see Fletcher in Osprey. So this is also one I don't have a strong opinion on. I think I tend to lean Fletcher in Osprey. But like I said, I could see the argument for Anarchy in the Arena as well.

50:41 Hazan, how did FTR and the Motor City Machine Guns hold the crowd's attention tonight, and how did you feel about the third match in their series?

50:47 I thought the third match was kind of like, I don't know, say boring in a way, but it was. But the ending got people invested. But I feel like there was no, like, the stakes. I don't know if the stakes were not really invested in this five-match series, but it's not like, I feel like there should be like an end goal, but it was not. I feel like, yeah, they're good matches, and the crowd's going to get into them at the end, but it's not really like, pulling me into it because I know I was on my phone half the time during the match and the crowd was kind of dead during like mostly the match until it was like the crescendo in a way.

51:19 And I do feel like maybe they should have put the stipulation that the winner of this would get the next title shot and that might add a little bit more oomph to this. I don't think that stipulation is currently on this match. So it does feel like there might doesn't feel like definitive stakes.

51:33 It feels like these are two legendary tag teams and they're going to tear the house down and steal the show so much. We should have a best of five series to highlight it. The problem is the machine guns weren't established first. FTR have been sort of part-time. DAX is carrying some extra weight. It seems a little slower.

51:49 They're not really at their peak as workers right now. And so it isn't what it needs to be in order to just inherently without explanation be be the OMG, we're getting to see five matches with these two teams. It's built on a legit body of work that ardent fans know about. And it's cool. We get to see it in that sense, but in the, in the world of AEW, it isn't just turnkey, you know, it just kind of, it happened, but I, as on, I, I mean, I sense from even the way you talk about it, you're like, yeah, I'm not sitting here marking out, as they say, for the fact that I got to see FTR and the machine guns in person. It doesn't feel as special as it could have if they had done a little bit more to establish the guns and maybe FTR,

52:38 you know, it was the FTR of a few years ago when, I mean, I still admire their work style, but it does feel like they're a little past the dream match stage, even if they have some of the fundamentals down that tell good stories. JB, am I being unfair on FTR and and how over the machine guns are inherently, how would you frame it?

52:55 No, I don't think that they're particularly over right now. And like I said, I don't know how much, they're investing in this being super over like sometimes it's just for having the legendary teams kind of match up which is okay not everything has to be this is the biggest deal this is the biggest thing happening and if that's where tony views it right now i'm okay with that i think i probably would have tried to put a little bit more shine on it maybe they will for the what i assumed to probably be the fifth and final match that's probably you know that's where they're going to want the most reaction you don't want to peek at like match two either match you know two or three um I guess one thing I would add, too,

53:28 I forgot to mention a little bit earlier, though, is I was surprised that Motor City Machine Guns won and they went up 2-1 tonight. Generally, the face team goes down 2-1 in the best-of-five series so that they can battle back to get the victory as underdogs. But if this is a way to break up the formula and the Machine Guns win this 3-1, I'd be all for that because it would just be a change of pace and then it would make you think anything could happen and those type of things. But I'd also be surprised if it doesn't go to a match five as well.

53:56 I think the logic was they wanted to do an angle on Dynamite to heat up the series. And so the reason for FTR to lash out is losing. So then because they're bitter about losing, I mean, you can have them win and still do powder in the eye. But it makes more sense to have FTR go, we're good sports. We'll shake your hand. Oh, psych. No, we're not.

54:14 Beat them down. And now then the fourth match will probably have the guns with a little extra power. you know, incentive to, to take it to FTR. And yet you had an angle to a series that's nice, but not red hot.

54:28 And this was the first ever match to the machine that's actually had a dynamite too. So maybe they wanted to get that's crazy.

54:34 Yeah.

54:34 Which is surprising, but yeah.

54:35 Yeah.

54:37 Adan, I'll throw to you, what else stood out in terms of wrestlers who were most over? You know, Darby Allin, Marina Shafir, from Dynamite proper. Did you stay around for any collision? I did for the most part.

54:49 Can I say something spoiler-wise for the first part of collision?

54:53 Yeah, so just a warning to anybody, hit fast forward 30 seconds or a minute if you don't want spoilers. But go ahead, yeah.

54:59 So for the first part, you know, Tony said we got the biggest stars in the world, you know, his whole pre-collision spiel. Then when I was listening as I was leaving, I heard the Hurston and Keating music, and they were super over.

55:10 I was kind of shocked with all.

55:12 The news recently about them, but they were like the second biggest pop-up of the night. And I'll say, though, Steve Borden, the kid's young, but he's still getting good pops, and I'm surprised by that.

55:22 Great pops. Yep. So back to Dynamite proper, the Dynamite portion. Who all stood out? Who got the biggest pops of everybody? Is it Moxley? Is it Shafir? Is it Darby? Like who?

55:36 I'd say Darby, Moxley for sure. He was like super hot. And I would say Mercedes got a decent pop. I'd say very biggest of the night. And the new level, they were, I said the new level got the fourth biggest pop, but not as big as you expected.

55:54 Were people in the new level in the building?

55:56 Yes.

55:57 Yeah.

55:57 One question I had on the new level, too, that I wanted to ask is they kind of came out and kind of like poo-pooed the idea of the Texas death match. And I thought that was a little weird because I'm like, that's probably not going to... I mean, not that they're necessarily... It's not like a face-to-face or heel-to-heel matchup here. But I'm like, that's probably not going to go over too well with the crowd. How did the crowd react to that?

56:16 I'd say the crowd was kind of like confused and like not really responding.

56:19 Like, okay, you're not really liking this. But they'd like moved on from the idea.

56:24 They weren't really paying attention to like, You could barely hear them even respond to.

56:29 The idea that they're not doing the match. Yeah. I mean, I don't believe that this wasn't going to be Texas death anyway. So, I mean, they probably didn't care too much about that.

56:40 I liked the new level saying we don't want to do a Texas death. And they kind of played that up last week, too. Because what you're doing is you're saying Texas hangman is making the case. Texas death is so exhausting and violent and that and and it takes so much out of you it takes years off my my life not just my career and new level are like we kind of like swerve but we just walked into something that we don't feel like we you know kofi's like i want to take my kids to after school activities i don't hate anybody around here enough to want to be part of this match and to me what comes across is whoa texas death is a serious big time stipulation match and i don't you know you don't want to be in it unless you're willing to

57:24 sacrifice yourself for a cause that you believe in And so I think the strategy, which I think has a chance to succeed, is new level like, whoa, wait, wait, just because we're hanging out with you doesn't mean we want to pick up your blood feud with all the baggage here and suddenly inject ourselves or participate in something that's going to cut our and perhaps shorten our career and send us to the hospital and I won't be able to play with my kids anymore. So I, I like that. And even if the crowd's kind of like, what, what, what are they talking about? Well, I think it would come through to them. Yeah. New level don't want any part of this. And then what it did is it set up, I think the successful moment because it was

58:03 restrained where Swerve had Bondito, they were wondering where they were. It's pretty predictable. We're going to get, you know, either Swerve hanging out with Bondito in a luxury suite or the top, you know, the catwalk or something around a video. And he had unmasked him, and we don't know what he did. But it's like a good horror movie. You're better when you don't see what happened or the villain.

58:21 There's some mystery to what was going on there. But it was threatening enough that it got Brody King going, I'm on board for Texas death. And so now the next stage is how do we get new level where they go, okay, we're in this too. The sad part is it's three– I was going to say three pairs. It's a pair of three-man teams that are babyfaces– And so it's weird, but I kind of like that it's different in how they're doing it, JB.

58:49 Yeah, no, actually, I liked it. I'm not trying to say that I didn't like it. I also like the gimmick of kind of new level bringing a spotlight to kind of like typical wrestling tropes and kind of like accidentally like calling them out kind of for what they are, like unintentionally, but it just kind of works with them.

59:06 but you know they seem naive about it but they're but they're really not and i think they're striking kind of a good balance from being too goofy like the new day could was in wwe sometimes and but also not losing the humor in themselves but also being able to maintain a level of intensity when push comes to shove i think is what we will see And I also think that Swerve taking it a step too far, you know, like he always does historically, is eventually going to be the catalyst that drives the new level kind of away from him. You know, they talked about how Texas death felt a bit extreme for them. And this was even before, you know, the Swerve, you know, kind of, Bloody Ben, you know, it's like a bloody pulp. But

59:40 I also mentioned I'm glad he was just kind of a bloody pulp rather than like lighting him on fire or stepping a hypodermic needle through his cheek or something like that.

59:47 I wouldn't even tell you what I was fearing was about to happen during that.

59:49 I thought they're going to light him on fire against the post or something is what I honestly thought was going to happen.

59:53 Yeah.

59:53 Or I mean, yeah, yeah. A lot of things ran through my head because I don't trust their judgment. I'm glad there was restraint and more is left to our imagination and nothing, nothing specific. Or, you know, actual deadly was even implied. It was just, I got him and it hasn't been fun for Bandito. Maybe you want to say yes to this. Do you think it ends up with a Texas Death 3-on-3 match? And do you have an idea, JB, and then we'll go back to Azan, but do you have an idea of how they get to new level going, okay, we're on board with it?

1:00:22 Or do they just sort of out of loyalty to Swerve join in?

1:00:26 I think at this point they somehow do the match because I don't think you're going to tease Texas Dets for this long and then pull it away from the fans who are crying tickets to the pay-per-view in Phoenix. So they do get to it somehow. That makes sense. But something's going to happen kind of over the case or maybe in the match where, you know, new levels see swerve differently all of a sudden. And Swerve's kind of leaning heelish. I mean, now all of a sudden again.

1:00:49 So it's like, but he never really, he came back face, but he never did anything to be his face. He just kind of came back. So it's actually okay to me because this is kind of all who he was. And maybe he was acting differently because he was able to bring the new level back with him. And it'd be cool if they tell the story that, you know, he was just acting away because he needed to get the new level on board to get the Trios titles off of Hangman and Brodito at the time. But it was more just using them as an end to a mean.

1:01:13 If they tell that story, I mean, it's a really layered story. intricate story, which I really would like. That's the story they tell over the next few months.

1:01:19 Swerve's character is kind of like driving 81 down the freeway and you're like in a 70 zone or 65 and you're like, he's speeding because he's passing a bunch of people going 65 and then suddenly someone zips by at 90 and you're like, oh wait, no, this guy is speeding. My point is Swerve's just doing what Swerve does and it's the context around him that makes him a baby face or a heel. And that's fine. He's doing the same. He's being on our, you know, there's probably an exception. That's what we're going to point out.

1:01:45 But largely, yeah, he didn't like go, hey, fans, I'm, you know, I'm, I love you guys. And by my, you know, foam hands that, you know, it wasn't whatever. So interesting. Ducky D in the chat goes, I actually hope Swerve successfully corrupts the new level. I kind of want to see them do the death match.

1:02:03 I think they will, but reluctantly kind of see the error in their ways. But I could also, if they get incorrupted and that's a story, they could go that way as well.

1:02:14 I would be in favor of that because I don't want to see them swiveling their hips and doing who, who or variations of it. If they feel like in order to be interesting for a long segment in the ring, we have to do our WWE shtick. I hope they just take a sharp turn and go a different direction. That said, I could also see them participating out of loyalty to Swerve or being pulled into it a little bit and then going, this is too much for us.

1:02:35 And it costs Swerve the match. Swerve's so pissed. He attacks them. And then we get a feud between them with Swerve going hardcore heel. But I don't know if he teams up with somebody or you just do singles feuds. So there's a variety of ways that they can go here. A little quick.

1:02:51 This has been good storytelling, though, in the sense that they have a lot of options that all make sense. It would be satisfying.

1:02:56 And it's not obvious what path they'll take, but there's paths they can take that will make sense and won't feel like hot-shotted. Zach Barber with a quip goes, no homes were harmed in that segment. Powder of repeat with a quip says, they don't want to put needles through hangman's cheek. They barely know him. And Zach Barber says, I actually appreciate a new level weren't fully behind the idea of Texas deathmatch and disavowing what Swerve did to Bondito. Indeed.

1:03:19 Indeed.

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1:03:42 Subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PWBoom.com. Once again, that's PWBoom.com.

1:03:55 All right. Azan, you mentioned Tony Khan. Did he talk to the crowd tonight? And if so, what did he have to say to St.

1:04:02 Louis?

1:04:04 Nothing much.

1:04:04 Just saying how really putting over the ring crew.

1:04:07 It's like these guys work 52 weeks a year. I don't give them no breaks. They're just doing everything for the business. Like real, like, I don't know what to say. Kind of like patting the hand on the employee, but not really giving all the praise in a way. Cool.

1:04:23 And did the crowd like pop for Tony?

1:04:25 Yes.

1:04:26 Yeah. JB, do you want to ask anything else of us on about tonight's show? I mean, obviously we haven't covered everything, but we're not going to run through the whole show with them. Yeah.

1:04:34 You know, I think it's a typical question that people would ask is, I mean, how much heat did Don Callis get either kind of when he was on TV or maybe off during commercial or anything like that? Did he get the monster heat that he normally does?

1:04:47 Yes. Yes, he do. Can I ask you guys a question? Yeah, of course.

1:04:52 Since I wasn't watching this at home, how was Taz's commentary after the Dari match? Because he seemed visibly like, I want to say, after like a bump to announce though, he seemed visibly like pissed off and want to quit his job on the spot from what I was looking at. Huh.

1:05:08 Was he, was it like, did Shivani or Scalabro say something that he like kind of scuffed off and maybe he was, you know, I can't remember on the TV broadcast. Maybe he was overacting a little bit to play that off. I can't fully remember.

1:05:24 Nothing. Yeah. Nothing stood out. Chat, jump in if anything stood out to you. Yeah.

1:05:29 It was like a weird bump during the match that like bumped announced it when all his stuff like fell over.

1:05:33 Oh.

1:05:34 Maybe that. Yeah, I didn't.

1:05:35 And after that, he was just like looking at his phone, not even paying attention during the match.

1:05:40 Wow. Well, I remember Bobby Heenan when he had the neck problem and he got mad on Nitro and anyone got near him because it could cause an injury and pain and all that. And there was a rule, stay away from Bobby when you're doing it. And Taz has been through a lot of medical– you know, procedure and rehab and stuff. So I could imagine him just going, Hey, when I'm out here, you guys got to have, you know, respect for, for keeping your distance or he's just mad because his phone broke and got wet or something. I don't know. You know, um, I can inquire and see if, see if, uh, see if there's a story there.

1:06:08 Yeah. That's interesting. Um, no, that'd make sense. Like you said, he's had neck problems. I don't think he can fly like coast to coast. He only does like the West coast and kind of middle of America.

1:06:16 So That's kind of their other– Danielson can't. He was doing the West Coast. Yeah, Danielson stays on the West Coast. So that kind of works, though.

1:06:23 Yeah.

1:06:24 It is official. I mean, and then sometimes they're in Texas, and then Paul White shows up. Yeah. So, cool. Azan, just any other observations, crowd chants, anything that surprised you, anything else you want to share with us about the experience tonight?

1:06:37 I'd say for the crowd was mostly– I'd say the crowd looked pretty great tonight.

1:06:41 They were into everything. Like I'm surprised. All the matches got.

1:06:44 Good reactions towards the end and like the beginning.

1:06:46 They were no like dead, period.

1:06:48 I feel that's, I feel that is a positive for my city as well, wrestling crowd. Cause I know I'm watching some dynamics on TV and the crowd is be dead the whole time. I feel like that's, did it come across as a good crowd tonight or?

1:06:59 It did. Yeah. I made note that it was, it was a very good crowd. I mean, yeah, especially for the main event. I didn't, wasn't sure that we'd get up for it, but they really got up for it more than I even thought they would.

1:07:08 So.

1:07:09 Crowd was just over 3000 at last check from WrestleTix and the building can hold like 10,000 for concerts there's not that many seat seats and obviously you scale it back for wrestling how full was it when you're sitting in the building like was a third of the building behind the hard cam completely empty or did it seem mostly full.

1:07:27 Like half of the building was full half one side was full and the other half the floor was full and the other half just like maybe like five or ten people on the other half of the hard cam side but it still looked good.

1:07:38 Yeah all right cool thanks Cezanne appreciate calling in Appreciate it.

1:07:45 Yep.

1:07:45 Have a good week. Um, if you attend a show live, you can do it as on did, uh, give us a call. Uh, it's good to let me know ahead of time. So we just kind of pace ourselves. So we know we're expecting an onsite correspondent, but, um, we haven't been doing it as much lately, but you're consider yourself invited, um, email Wade Keller post show at gmail.com and just say the name of the city and the data and the subject line. And I'll get back to you and we'll be sure that we get you, um, A way to call in and so you know what to do and adjust to your schedule if you're leaving the show right away and want to get home first or talk to us on your way out of the building or in the car, whatever. But it is fun

1:08:16 to hear, you know, from time to time what it's like in the building, especially when there's a double taping and we get a little bit of insight into what happened afterwards, too. All right. Oh, speaking of Taz, I'll repeat notes. I laughed when Jack Perry hugged Taz mocking Fletcher hugging Don Callis. That was indie-rific. Taz said, yeah, good.

1:08:35 What do you say? Good rib? Good something like that.

1:08:38 Something like that.

1:08:39 Something afterwards.

1:08:40 Yeah.

1:08:40 Good rib, Jack. And then he complained that Jack was all sweaty and got his like got him got sweat on him. So anyway, yeah, that was good. Taz is always fun to have on commentary. Rude Dog says, the only time I met Taz was in Jacksonville at Daily's Place before an AW show. And he was yelling at... at me asking, where the hell am I supposed to go in? Even though he was there during the pandemic.

1:09:06 So Taz can be ornery. I got a, back in the original ECW days, I got a Christmas Eve phone call from him. He was so angry at me. Man, anyway. Um, but, but he's still, it's like, he's a, I mean, I've had really good, I mean, he's, I've interviewed him and, um, I mean, he's just a really cool dude. I mean, he's a nice guy, but yeah, he has, he can, he can be a temperamental if, if, if the, if the situation isn't, isn't, um, you know, is bugging him.

1:09:38 All right. Uh, so JB, do you want to jump in?

1:09:42 No, yeah. He seems like a professional.

1:09:45 Yeah, totally. I don't know if he's my... He might be my favorite color commentator right now in terms of what he adds to the match, staying away from the heel commentator trope and his cartoonish of a way or his jarring of a way as sometimes Wade Barrett and Corey Graves do. You know, don't comment about NXT.

1:10:03 So.

1:10:05 I won't watch NXT because of Booker. I would have to watch it on mute. I don't know if I've ever been more bothered by an announcer. Just because literally I'm thinking more about the stupid stuff, the undercutting stuff he's saying than I am about anything else that's going on.

1:10:19 And just indiscriminately yelling about just out of nowhere, just making loud I don't.

1:10:27 Know how they– have him with the company. I'm sure he's valuable in other ways, but I don't know how they keep him. That is a disservice to NXT, in my opinion.

1:10:35 I mean, I interviewed him too after his book came out. One of my favorite interviews and just like a super great guy. But, I mean, there's just things that aren't your thing. And somehow– and he's not– he's honestly not great on the panel discussions either. I mean, I know people revere his career and stuff, but, I mean, I just– I don't think he adds– great insight when he's on the panel discussions either i think he just says stuff it doesn't feel like it's gone through a process of will this be good for the the wrestler or the match or does it make sense what am i adding it's just saying stuff and and i just so it's it's just it's not the right role for him but he's got a job and but part of it

1:11:08 is he's just so nice and well liked and a good dude and so i don't think anyone wants to they just like him around And it's, you.

1:11:14 Know, he has an elite wrestling school, so he knows how to teach how to be good at wrestling. But you're not, you know, like you just said, the greatest athletes, I mean, everyone has their blind spots. I mean, you know, sometimes the greatest athletes aren't, you know, good in all areas. You know, they don't make the greatest announcers. So, I mean.

1:11:29 Sometimes you're good at doing what you do. Ric Flair was, but he's not a good booker, not a good color commentator. But he was good at cutting a Ric Flair promo to build up his own match and then having a match that his opponents would look back on and say it was the best match of my career. more than any wrestler in wrestling history you know most wrestlers best matches during rick flair's prime years their best matches were against him and that's what he's good at but nothing else nothing else um and that's the case sometimes so all right uh let's see we'll hit a few rapid fire things here so uh did you like the the fletcher jack perry match the promo afterwards and the setup for the match a little bit rushed i'm with you

1:12:10 on this you know last week i was kind of like God, do I want them to rush into a Copeland match or I want them to rush into a Fletcher match? And you're sort of sacrificing either way. We got a couple more Dynamites, though. I think they'll pull it off. But I'm with you, as you noted earlier. This feels like not a match that's being built up for so long. And it's going to be the big one.

1:12:30 It's more the first match in what will be a match they go back to later when it's framed as a bigger deal. And this is laying the groundwork for something to build on.

1:12:37 Yeah, I'm okay with it. Just what you described is I think if I had to just do a prediction, they're going to come full circle. I hope they use this moment and come full circle, let's say at all in next year and maybe crown Fletcher at that moment and kind of really put him over at that point to being the guy. Because then at that point, you've got a full year Osprey rating. I mean, that's more than enough, obviously. He'll still have... tons of credibility. You know, he's not going to lose anything in that. But yeah, I think this is a part of a longer-term story, which I'm okay with from time to time. I would have been okay with Copeland, too, if they decided to go that way. You could make that work and make

1:13:11 that kind of more of a one-off. But I'm also cool with kind of building up the Copeland retirement tour a little bit more before you kind of visit that match. I don't want Copeland winning the title at any point, but if it's kind of like the match before his last match where he put someone over, I'd be okay with that. Or maybe he does a title match, then Christian, then puts someone over or something like that. But, you know, this is booking up probably towards like midsummer to fall next year. So we probably got like a full, you know, 12 months before that, that happens. But yeah, I'm okay with it as far as the Perry match. Yeah. I mean, it was just kind of a vehicle to get us there.

1:13:42 You know, I'd like the Fletcher promo afterwards where Davis and Noel were kind of hoisting him up and he was just kind of, you know, he was content with himself, straightforward, arrogant heel promo.

1:13:53 I like those.

1:13:53 I mean, I like the straightforward face and heel promos. It was what it was supposed to be. And they didn't try to overcomplicate things. The one critique I had though, was that I wish he would have kind of brought his volume down, you know, get into the yelling a little bit too much for my taste, especially towards the end of that promo. But, you know, the idea of the callous family taking all the gold is interesting, you know, kind of nugget to me to kind of keep the outcomes of the matches coming up at full gear, a little bit more flexible and not as easy to predict, thus making them a little more compelling. So it's not just, you know, mysterious for the sake of being mysterious kind of makes sense, but it's still compelling as well.

1:14:27 I liked Davidson Doyle, Sharing a spotlight with Fletcher. I like the visual of them lifting him on the shoulders and he's talking. I wonder if it will end up being a moment that's reenacted if the Don Callis family turns on Fletcher by having Davidson. Yeah, exactly.

1:14:43 Yeah.

1:14:44 Like Davidson, I'm like, they put him on a shoulder. That's a peculiar moment. Peculiar is maybe overstating it, but it's a noteworthy, memorable way for Fletcher to cut a promo. And it might just be, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we did this? There's nothing more to it. I stipulate to that as the likeliest option. But I don't rule out that they did that because in their mind in one month or four months, there's going to be a moment where something happens where Okada or whoever convinces Callis, go with me, not him, Fletcher wins. And I'm not even sure how I feel about Fletcher turning babyface because I feel like it's redundant with Ospreay and he's a really good heel. So, but if the callous family was

1:15:21 to turn on him, that would be the scene for Davis to do it. Lift him on the shoulders. There are two people to do it. And then that's when he gets knocked down. You not a JB? Did that cross your mind or are you kind of agreeing? Yeah.

1:15:30 No, I mean, it didn't necessarily come to my mind, but AEW does do a lot of callbacks. So, you know, visual callbacks to in-match visual callbacks, but I could see doing it outside of a match as well. That definitely makes sense. And also, yeah, I mean, like you said, one of the greatest moments in my wrestling memory was the Batista, the Evolution Turner, Randy Orton, where they hosted him.

1:15:49 And he did the, everyone does the thumbs up and then, you know, everyone sees the thumb downs coming, but you still pop for the moment. So I can see it being something like that.

1:15:57 Yeah.

1:15:58 Back to the Booker T talk, by the way, Paulder repeats that. Booker T spewing nonsense is hilarious to me, but I'm a weirdo.

1:16:04 I'm not disputing that.

1:16:05 It's just.

1:16:06 It's good for him, for everyone, but it's good for him, but not good for anyone else. So, I mean, you know what I mean? It just takes the attention away from.

1:16:14 Like, I think there's things that fans like, but it's not what they should be liking while watching a pro wrestling show. Yeah.

1:16:23 Then I'm not paying attention. Like, I mean, Booker T isn't going to make me watch a show one way or the other. So it's like, if he's taking all my attention and not paying attention to the stories, the wrestling, I'm just thinking about what Booker T is saying. Sure, that serves burger tea, I suppose. But, you know, no one's tuning in to any show to just purely listen to the answers. And if you, I mean, if you are, you're right, you're weird. You're probably one out of like 200.

1:16:43 People that might do that. You don't go to Chuck E. Cheese for the pizza. You go because your kids want to see animatronic characters playing in a band. NXT should not be a show where you degrade the execution and the effectiveness of of the stories being told in the ring, you degrade that for this sideshow nonsense of a guy going rawr and yelling and spewing catchphrases that are distracting and have nothing to do with elevating the product. It shouldn't be about him. So if you're amused by it, that's fine. You can go to McDonald's for the Playland I don't know if they have those anymore, the little indoor playgrounds. But the good restaurants you go to for the food, not the sideshow. And Booker becomes a sideshow

1:17:27 that's distracting for the main reason it exists. And it's just a disrespectful disservice to the stories that the wrestlers are trying to tell. And even if you find it entertaining, it is. But I don't. I find it grating and almost unbearable. I don't either.

1:17:41 I mean, every now and then he might say, it's usually just, I don't even understand what he's talking about half the time. But also it's like, I compare it to like, you know, Sharknado was so bad. It was good, but it was not a box office. I mean, it didn't make money. So I mean, I'm sure if you want to, if that's a business you want to be in.

1:17:55 I mean, all the power to you.

1:17:58 But if you're an actor trying to do a serious movie, a really good, sharp, sharply written comedy, a thriller, a dopey comedy, and you get distracted by something so stupid that it undercuts all your work and craftsmanship of the story and it becomes a distraction, you should resent it. Zach Barber goes, are you saying Shucky Ducky Quack Quack isn't riveting TV?

1:18:19 Yes.

1:18:19 Yes.

1:18:20 Yes, we are. Booker T's listening and going, what did I do? This is an AEW Dynamite show. God, man.

1:18:25 He's catching strays, as they say.

1:18:27 Yeah. Paul Allen ruined that phrase for me. Local reference. Before pushing play on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows, check out pwtorch.com and our TV review section and skim through a full rundown of the TV show. If you didn't see it, that's your way to get an overview of what happened before you dive into our in-depth analysis of the key happenings on the show. That's pwtorch.com, your home for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with my TV reports. And also check out our NXT and Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports on Saturday nights, and of course our live pay-per-view and PLE coverage on weekends. All waiting for you at pwtorch.com.

1:19:10 All right. Oh, Rude Dog says they don't have the animatronics at Chuck E. Cheese anymore.

1:19:15 Lame.

1:19:16 I would not know.

1:19:17 The pizza is surprisingly good at Chuck E. Cheese, so I do have to say that.

1:19:20 Oh, okay.

1:19:20 Well. I mean, I'm not going to Chuck E. Cheese for the pizza per se, but if they had pizza, I'd be like, oh, this is decent pizza.

1:19:27 You don't resent it. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody asked in the chat, do we only call in via YouTube? Yes. There's a link in my TV reports at PWTorch. They change with every show. It's at the top and the bottom. I mean, I literally don't think you can miss it. It literally says this is the link you click to be a caller, but it does change with every show. So it's a fresh link each time. So for people who think, Wade, why do you repeat yourself all the time? It's because people, I don't know, because I have to, because people still email and ask. So speaking of which, we got Zach from Jackson, Mississippi, calling us in. Zach, welcome. What is up, guys?

1:20:09 Good to hear from you. What's on your mind about tonight's show?

1:20:11 Well, I wanted to call in because JB was on, obviously, so I've got a little extension of Destination Impact here featuring the legend Wade.

1:20:20 I don't get it.

1:20:22 I did give him a little heads up that I'd be on tonight.

1:20:24 Ah, yes, yes.

1:20:26 Spoiler alert.

1:20:27 Well, actually, are you guys saying that you didn't enjoy when Booker T had the microphone, was on commentary in TNA, and then went to the ring and was beating up people while also doing commentary? Because that was... Somewhat riveting back then.

1:20:42 Come on.

1:20:43 At least he was willing to admit that he was just doing whatever he wanted for a paycheck.

1:20:48 Oh, that definitely came across.

1:20:50 I guess you could argue he's doing the same right now and getting away with it.

1:20:53 Indeed. We talked in a serious way about money in the bank and crowds earlier this week on the Rappo show, the flagship, I think with everything with Rich on the VIP show. It's been a big topic with me this week, which is if crowds pop for something... and it's over in and of itself, does that mean it's still the right thing to do for the overall product? And, you know, people want to be present for something iconic, but as a booker, promoter, or even a wrestler, you can mistake that for it being the best thing for the overall experience for the fans. And, you know, the Money in the Bank cash-in is so tropey, but if you're in the building and WWE has degraded the sense of what people are fighting for and matches seeming realistic and getting

1:21:31 world title shots by merit rather than by chance, And becoming champion by merit rather than beating up than scoring a three count on someone who's already been beat up for 20 minutes. I mean, the world title status becomes a farce. And so fans end up popping for things that are just sort of, hey, I was there when this happened. And it's kind of a fun thing I saw on TV. So I'm going to do it, too.

1:21:50 but it doesn't mean it's over. And I think that applies to some of the stuff that Booker T does on commentary. It's like, just because people walk up to him in the hotel lobby and go, oh, you know, uh, you know, shucky ducky quack quack. I love that. And if, you know, that doesn't mean it isn't that that's what fans should care about. And I don't think it helps the product. So just cause in, in Sammy Zane, even when he was in an interview and I think it was with, uh, I don't know if it was Jason or Rich, cause I did talk to both of them yesterday in podcast, but sorry, Jason Rich, if I'm mixing it up, but he talked about how when you're, he realized the difference between getting a pop and being over.

1:22:28 And there are things in wrestling that are superficial and they get a pop, but they're ephemeral and they can undercut the overall narrative of the show that gets people immersed and brings that.

1:22:35 Yes.

1:22:35 I'll say peak fan experience that Sammy experienced in Montreal. And he did learn the difference. And so I try not to, you know, tell fans you shouldn't enjoy what you enjoy, but I want you to differentiate popping for something that's sort of fun that you personally enjoy, but don't defend it as, as being good for the overall presentation and effectiveness of the product. Anyway, Zach, you came here for other reasons.

1:22:59 I assume.

1:23:00 Oh, absolutely. No, that was it.

1:23:01 No, um, no, uh, I wanted to, uh, piggyback off of the, uh, Fletcher thing. Cause I definitely got the image of the Batista Randy Orton evolution thing with, uh, with Fletcher sitting on Davis and Dole's shoulders. So I assume they could definitely come back to that. I personally feel like they're going to the Osprey-Fletcher match a little too soon because I figured that Fletcher was pretty high on the list of... people who could maybe dethrone Ospreay as champion. So, I mean, I guess that's still possible, but, um, and I, you guys might've been talking about that when I was attempting to call in. So I'm not sure if you said anything about your feelings on if you're thinking it's too soon to go to this match or not, but, um, yeah,

1:23:46 I wanted to get your thoughts on that.

1:23:48 There's always a chance that Fletcher has some, you know, like, surgery that he needs. So we don't know about, you know, his shoulders bugging him and he's, he needs to unfortunately take off six weeks or three months or something. And so we're having to, you know, just plans and they've kept it really on the down low. I say that not because I'm like trying to secretly plan to see that I know anything. Cause I don't, but you never know, even when you think, ah, you know, like if you go, why are they going to this so early and why might they be turning, turning clutch or baby face? It could be for a reason. We don't know my hunches, unless it's something, well, My hunch is it's not that, and they just are going to it what feels like

1:24:29 early because there's not a better option Tony Khan has set up, primarily, but also co-primarily, they're not going to treat it as a big match yet. The actual match execution is going to be, yes, about Will Ospreay getting a win over a top contender, but it's going to also be part of a story having to do with Fletcher that will make more sense by December and January.

1:24:51 maybe because he comes up short and Okada says something under his breath a few too many times and that leads to the dissension I'm not suggesting specifically that has to be it but for illustrative purposes they might be going to this because it is him coming up short is going to be a key factor in him eventually turning baby face so that that's that's a little more specific and a little different than what we said earlier but along the same lines JB how about you yeah and.

1:25:14 And I think it's going to be used as a backdrop from when they eventually I feel like they know they're going to revisit this at some point I Zach, you missed it, but I suggested maybe like all in next year is when it could be potentially Fletcher's crowning moment. So this could be the backdrop is, you know, he came up short at this moment. You know, maybe I don't imagine he'd still be healed by then, but they could do another face face where it's kind of a bit of a passing of the torch moment, even though Ospreay is not out of his prime by any means, but just relative to age, you could say it's a little bit of a passing of the torch moment, much as Ospreay defeating Omega this year's all in was. So

1:25:50 I could see it just kind of be used as the backdrop to that and part of that story, which, you know, I'm perfectly for kind of this kind of being like, like we used to talk about, you know, what I enjoy most is being a part of the journey and this being, you know, a big kind of, you know, temple in Fletcher's journey that we can point back to and remember.

1:26:08 Very good. Totally. Yes. Next thing.

1:26:11 Also, same segment. I wanted to get Wade's thoughts and JB. Also, we've kind of talked about Jack Perry a little bit, but kind of wanted to get Wade's thoughts on how you're feeling about Jack Perry, how you think the fans. I mean, he didn't feel like the fans were very into him tonight. And maybe that's a trend that's been going on lately.

1:26:30 Yes.

1:26:30 So I'm like how the baby face character is going. And if you think he's going to be winning an AEW championship at any point in his run with AEW.

1:26:40 Odds are yes. Cause there's so many titles and he's a good wrestler and he's young and he's, I think, I.

1:26:48 Mean, he's had a, he's had a title before though. Hasn't he?

1:26:50 He has had a title.

1:26:51 Yeah.

1:26:52 It was the, yeah. I can't remember which one.

1:26:55 I'm going to side with Zach. I mean, I'm sorry.

1:26:57 I think he's had the international recently too. Didn't he win it at like, in his hometown this this year or something i don't remember but.

1:27:03 But the exact but an exact question is will he hold another title or is he just sort of going to be this kind of utility guy who shows up and has a good 10 15 match with somebody and it's just an opportunity for to have a good match and lose cleanly um and i so i just say that he is young enough and good enough in the ring and in good enough standing with tony um that he will hold another title someday, but I don't think it's imminent. And I think he, um, yeah, I mean, I feel the way I felt about him for the most part, you know, I mean, like, I don't think he jumps off the screen as a, as a super well-defined personality. I don't think his promos come up. I think his promos come across kind of hacky, like, you know,

1:27:49 just sort of surface level, um, repeating of something he saw on TV and he does kind of a, some sort of kind of, c-plus version of something that he thinks is a wrestling promo um i'm dogging on it but i don't think there's anything super distinct about his promos and when they are it comes across to kind of try hard um and and gimmicky i don't think there's sort of an authentic core to his wrestling character at this point and until he finds something that's a hook that doesn't feel put on and performative or sort of not outlandish but Yeah, just try hard. Like, I'm going to drive this truck or I'm going to sit against a stair in a stairwell and be overly melodramatic about something. And I don't know, it just feels like

1:28:32 he's reaching left and right to try to find something to latch on to. And so as long as I don't feel like he has a sense of who he is. and what his why fans should root for him or against him and he can articulate that in a way that doesn't feel try hard or hacky I think we're he's in the role he's going to be in but there's talent there so if he if he gets to a point where he finds that that that voice in him that fans go, that's it. He had it early in the world that he was in with Luchasaurus, but I don't think he has it now as more of a veteran. JB, how do you feel?

1:29:06 Yeah, I would say I thought it was honestly weird kind of how they brought him back, saying he was going to come and wrestle all former champions kind of deal. And then he just kind of came back and is lost to everyone, including Kyle Fletcher, who wasn't a former AEW champion. Obviously, he's one of the top guys, but he hasn't been a former champion yet. So I just thought it was kind of putting him in a little bit of a weird spot. Not that I'm like, oh, you're underpushing Jack Perry. That's not what I'm saying. I thought it was kind of just a weird spot to kind of bring him back into. He's sort of like a gatekeeper now who never wins. You'd think you'd want to give him a few more wins on television so

1:29:41 he has a little bit more credibility. But also, if he ever does have an AEW championship, I'm not saying it's all over. He still has probably like 15 years in the business. Say all those years were in AEW. If he does somehow have, like you said, finds a character, finds a voice that works, I'd imagine it being kind of like Darby's title run was this year, where it's short-lived.

1:30:00 He's more of a transitional champion, but the run has a story behind it. It's not like a gold watch moment, but it makes sense in the moment. That's how I would see it happening. But I don't see him ever being like an Osprey or a Fletcher or anything like that. Yeah.

1:30:13 Zach, how about you? Why did you ask about him? How do you feel about him? I tend to agree.

1:30:18 I've just been kind of watching him and it just feels like, like JB said, the storyline seemed to I don't know. Call for at least some wins in the thing at some point. But yeah, I also I mean, there was one point in the match where Tony Schiavone said that he saw some crotch biting at wrestling at the chase. And I just wanted to get your confirmation on if that's true or not.

1:30:46 I'm assuming he's being sarcastic.

1:30:48 Okay, okay.

1:30:49 That's the second time I've heard about Wrestling at the Chase this week because I started listening to Todd's Wrestling Through the Years show. So I'd never heard of it before then, and now I've heard of it a couple times this week.

1:31:01 And I got one more thing. Let's see.

1:31:05 Do you think that the... And I don't know if this is too off of the beaten path, but do you think that the WWE Saudi show controversy could lead to more talents jumping ship to AEW?

1:31:22 I mean, it depends on nothing that I've heard to this point, especially if WWE doesn't go there, doesn't seem like they're punishing people who express they don't want to go there and they are given a legit opt out. For any Saudi show. I don't think it would rise to that. Is there something in the news I don't know about in the last few hours that that leads to asking or he's kind of asking, in general, just the thought that they haven't obviously already canceled it.

1:31:47 I'm just asking in general. I think I had heard that Kevin Owens– there was reports that Kevin Owens isn't going. And there was like the story on Tuesday I think that like the US government had recalled like unessential people from the area.

1:32:04 They just changed the venue today too, didn't they, or something like that?

1:32:07 That I did not hear.

1:32:08 It was like a social media dropout. sorry.

1:32:12 Yep.

1:32:12 My VIP Wade Keller hotlines have been covering this every single day in depth all week. So everyone catch up on those, uh, the news updates on the VIP feed. Um, I've been meticulously covering this with insight from inside WWE that I have, and also recapping what other people are reporting. So, um, and we put one up this afternoon too, with the, with the news of the, of the show, um, moving venues.

1:32:31 And I went into the, I went into language and, and nuance, and I won't do it here because I want to save it for our VIP members who listened to the the news update, but yeah, I've covered it like three out of four days this week on the hotlines. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a fluid situation. And obviously we talked about on other shows, just commenting on whether wrestlers should go or not. And whether if they do go, top executives should fly with them. Yes. Women coach or whatever, private jet, whatever, be in the front in the luxury first class section. I don't care, but be on the airplane and, uh, and hang out with them. Um, if you're not willing to do that, don't send them just so you can make tens of millions of dollars.

1:33:08 Totally agree. All right, guys, I appreciate you. And also it was cool to see Dean Malenko. I don't know what you guys thought, but the Dean Malenko promo, I just thought it was cool that he was on TV, I guess.

1:33:17 But your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, I loved having him. He had the voice for that promo. It was a cool use.

1:33:24 Absolutely.

1:33:25 I'm curious who came up with that idea to have him do that because it added his gravelly voice and the cadence to it. And it just it added some gravity to the setting up of the match.

1:33:37 Absolutely.

1:33:38 Well, I appreciate you guys. Talk to you later. For sure, yeah. Thanks, Zach. Appreciate it.

1:33:41 Absolutely. Talk to you next week.

1:33:43 Yes, sir.

1:33:44 Destination Impact.

1:33:45 Let's go. So he just said Destination Impact. JB, who is this Zach guy, and why did he just say Destination Impact at the end?

1:33:52 Yes, for those who aren't aware. I mentioned it earlier in the show, but that was Zach Clark from Jackson, Mississippi, who's my co-host. Well, he's the host. I'm the co-host on Destination Impact. So a weekly daily cast.

1:34:03 So search PW Torch. Subscribe. Like I said, we have shows... different pairs of hosts dedicated to different specific themes. And we're happy to have a weekly TNA show on the lineup again. That hasn't always been the case. And so great that you guys are doing that.

1:34:19 Yeah.

1:34:19 Darren Lilly has been joining us back again, semi-regularly.

1:34:21 So yeah.

1:34:22 Yeah.

1:34:22 Check out our Darren Lilly's TV, TNA Impact Reports Thursday night on pwtorch.com and also pay-per-view coverage. If you want to get a long time veteran observer and reporter on TNA, Darren Lilly's the go-to guy for that.

1:34:39 On Tuesday nights, the conversation doesn't stop when NXT ends. It's just getting started. I'm Nate Lindberg, and alongside my co-host Kelly Wells, we bring you PWT Talks NXT. We go live on the PWTorch YouTube channel about 15 minutes after the show to break down matches, storylines, and surprises.

1:34:54 And we take your questions.

1:34:54 Questions and comments from the live chat. Miss us live, but you still want to be part of the show. Send your thoughts to PW torch, NXT at gmail.com and catch the replay on YouTube or on the PW torch daily cast feed. Just search PW torch on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And of course you can always stream the latest shows at PW torch.com.

1:35:11 All right. Uh, so, uh, anything else that stands out that we haven't covered that you want to, uh, Oh, I know I do. I'll let me ask her my own question. JV Marina Shapiro. Um, I really liked your presentation tonight. How about you?

1:35:26 Yeah, no, I enjoyed it, uh, as well. Yeah. I'm glad they kind of come. This was like a time where I'm glad she came and came out with a, with a squash match and they kind of showed what she could do. Um, I'm glad too, that now she has two kind of like submission finishers, finishers and mother's milk and the brutalizer. I like it in the sense that mother's milk allows her to save the brutalizer for big moments and big matches. Um, like possibly, you know, even against Mercedes at full gear. So I think that's like a cool, unique thing she's added to her arsenal. Um, you know, obviously, you know, with the, with the pack passing, that was his, um, his submission, one of his submission finishers. And, um, yeah,

1:36:00 I mean, I liked how they presented her. She just looked like a legit badass. He seemed to be getting over with the crowd as well. I think she, she actually had a pretty good showing at the pack tribute show. Um, you know, I think, you know, and she got involved a little bit with, with the guys in that match, if I recall correctly. So I think this is, we might ultimately be going up next week. We might, or even the following week, because next week is blood and guts.

1:36:21 Maybe the, the, um, full gear, go home show. We might get a multi-person mixed tag match where we get the death riders with Marina against the cut with Mercedes, just based on some of the interaction tonight. So I could see that kind of being where they're leading to when, you know, they might kind of barely touch hands before they get the match at the pay-per-view, but I was behind actually at the pack on the pack tribute show.

1:36:43 I'm like, they should really kind of invest in Marina push. This is the right time. And this is the time to strike while the errand's hot. And you can maybe potentially elevate her to be one of those, Big kind of four at the top of the women's division with Tony Stark. We've been absent. Tecla and Mercedes and Willow.

1:36:58 It felt rushed also, but I was like, well, they got three weeks to make this work. And I thought this was a very successful, well-timed because of the state of the death riders and their elevation and how overmoxed it is right now. And Marina is just this bad-ass baby face. She hasn't been as protected as I would like, but I don't think people are, that's at the forefront of people's memory right now. I think they see to tonight was a good way to not hit the reset button, but to emphasize the part of her that has made her kind of almost like hook was for a while, like this sort of bad-ass who's quiet arms crossed in the background, but they're cool. But I think in the ring, she is, she's not a weak link. when it comes

1:37:45 to she, we clinked the wrong word. Um, she doesn't look like she's pretending to do a bad-ass gimmick and coming up a little short, but it's the best we've got like a Ronda Rousey cosplay. It feels like she's just who she is. And I think her ring style is a short squash mask tonight, but it's credible. And then I'm really looking forward to what Mercedes, you know, I mean, maybe the best woman's wrestler of this era in the United States, basically in the United States. Um, What she's able to bring out in a match with her.

1:38:14 I think that's really intriguing. And I'm very much looking forward to a different style match to Griffin ran a top five list of opponents on PW torch today. I hope everyone has a chance to read that. We put that up earlier of the top five opponents he'd like to see against Will Ospreay, not because they're the best five wrestlers. We know we're going to get those, but different style wrestlers on the roster, AWS diversity. And, and I think there's value that sometimes AW fans get wrapped up in. It's all about maximum star rating and the length, the longest time and the most kickouts and the most pops at the end. I like, Mixing it up. And I think Marina brings something different to a match with

1:38:52 Mercedes than the next wrestler who has a good reputation on the indie scene or internationally or coming in from somewhere else. So I like this and, you know, we'll learn what Marina's ceiling is, if it's too low to remain in the spot or not. JB, how are you feeling? Yeah, no, I agree.

1:39:10 And I think, like you said, Marina provides something different that we don't really have in the women's division, which is usually a good thing. And she does it well. I think Mox has given her a lot of credibility. And it's, you know, it's clear that he sees something in her as well. And it's translated. And she, you know, I don't think she's dropped the ball by any means.

1:39:26 But yeah, like. It feels like she has momentum behind her. And like I said, they're striking while they aren't hot, which is a good thing. Like you said, we'll see. I mean, I don't think she's going to be a flop, not that she live up to consistent main event level push. I mean, that's something she's going to have to prove.

1:39:39 I think a lot will be said with her match with Mercedes at full gear. And I feel like Mercedes is going to try to make her look good as well. So I'm optimistic that she could be a regular presence in the top of the women's division moving forward, but yet to be seen. But, you know, she definitely has the opportunity.

1:39:55 I don't know if it was safe or proper, but that job or took the best corner Irish whip I've seen in a long time made Marina look like a monster. And Zach Barber in the chat goes, yeah, showing Marina as a killer was smart. So that's why I love squash matches in the right context. You know, you can't do a whole show of them, but, um, don't count them out as a good vehicle for a moment like this.

1:40:15 Absolutely.

1:40:15 Yep.

1:40:15 Agreed. They're underused in today's wrestling in general.

1:40:18 So, yep.

1:40:19 Yeah.

1:40:20 Uh, JB, anything else before we sign off? Yeah.

1:40:22 A few points actually, but, um, So the Ciampa-Dragunov promo tonight. Yes. I said at least Ciampa came out tonight and was a clear heel. He didn't try to play it one way or the other. It was pretty clear, which is a step forward for him as of recent months. Let's hope that he stays in that lane during this feud with Dragunov.

1:40:43 So no going to his adorable daughter at ringside and making us want to see him win because his adorable family.

1:40:48 Is at ringside.

1:40:49 Yeah. Outside of like his first– kind of feud with, I think with, with the great cliche, I haven't met a big fan of what he's done in a W. Um, but I do think it was good. He, he talked tail and ran in the face of legitimate challenge from, from Ilya. Um, and then kind of leading into this, but I've had a couple, two big gripes with Shivani tonight.

1:41:07 One.

1:41:07 So he undermined the, the action of, of Champa talking tail and running from Dragunov by saying, you have to be ready to face Dragunov, you know, as if, you know, like kind of providing excuse to the, to the heel in that scenario, which I thought, you know, which was weird coming from ostensibly a face announcer.

1:41:23 Yeah.

1:41:24 And the second point is he later, later on, he also undercut the death riders by saying that the cut were just doing what the death riders would have, would have used to do, which is true, but definitely not something that you want to bring attention to in the, in the moment, right?

1:41:36 Yeah.

1:41:36 If the gloves get heat on the cut, don't go, Oh, I'd be hypocritical to boo the cut. Yeah.

1:41:42 Twice, twice of this, the same, basically the same mistake twice, which, It was really small, and it was like one sentence in passing, but it's something that I caught and just kind of annoyed me. And Trevani does that kind of a lot, if we're being honest. And those things add up as you talk about death by a thousand cuts.

1:41:58 So that could be an issue and something I hope he eventually cleans up, but I'm not going to bet on it at this point.

1:42:04 When you listen to Vic Joseph do commentary with Booker T... like half of fixed job is try to steer things back in a place that's well, Booker, that's an interesting point, but I think the more pertinent thing we should be talking about is this, you know, like in so many words, he does that a lot. Um, and he'll kind of laugh, but be like, ah, okay. But yeah, look, there's something serious happening here. And Excalibur and Taz are sort of in the business of, all right, Tony, what you said is true. It's not what we want to be emphasizing right now. So there'll be like sort of a counter to a counter to it. Um, And so, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's good that Excalibur and Taz are there to counter, I'm trying to say counter, counterproductive lines, but

1:42:48 I have to. Yeah.

1:42:48 They've both gotten pretty good at it too, because they do it so often. And I would say too, Corey Graves is pretty good at that. He doesn't have to do it as often. He's really good at bringing things back. I like him as an announcer.

1:43:00 My favorite Corey Graves era was when he was just absolutely disgusted and dismayed with having to work with Booker T and just like could not hide his disdain for the low IQ comments. that left and right were being said in, you know, the low IQ booking intuition, you know, like it just, that's counterproductive and that's ridiculous. And that's not the point. And I mean, there should have been a Corey camp just to look at his face, just go like, all right, cause he cares so much, you know, like when he's in that, when he's doing his job.

1:43:28 You could tell, like he takes it seriously, diligently pissed, pisses him off, like pissed him off. Booker was just not probably doing any homework or prepare or anything like that. So yeah, I agree. Another thing, too, I thought tonight was honestly Stephen Borden's probably best promo so far, in my opinion. I feel like this is the first time he has personally kind of shone through where we kind of felt like got some insight into the person that he actually is. And it wasn't really like monotone or him just reading off a script. I kind of felt some emotion behind what he was saying. And it felt like he took time and kind of thinking about the content and kind of relating his past and present to

1:44:04 what's at stake in the Blood and Gun Smash with the Kallus family next week. So it wasn't like a big thing, but I thought it was definitely a step forward for him.

1:44:13 Are they not a spoiler alert, but maybe are they, is, is the Don Callis going Steve Borden made a mistake. He should have trusted me. Not, you know, he would be better off with me than with Darby. And Borden saying, you know, I'm team with the Bucks, even though we have a lot of history and, And I'm not having forced into blood and guts. I want it. And I want blood and gut. I don't know. Like I'm watching, I'm watching him talk through the lens of, I think, and I think it'd be best for him to actually join the Don Callis family. Cause as much as you're saying, you know, tonight I got to know him a little bit better. I think there is going to be heat on him. if he, the son of Sting, aligns with

1:45:00 that scumbag Don Callis for some reason, but it has to seem believable and not like this dislike. Oh, can you believe we did this? And so if they have that in mind, and if they've maybe done a dry run off camera with him being a heel, I think it's easier to be healed than a baby face a lot of times, especially with the level of experience he has.

1:45:20 I kind of like the idea of the rage that Sting fans and AW fans will feel if Don Callis has recruited... Stephen Borden stings son to the dark side of the scumbag Don Callis family.

1:45:32 Yeah, it feels very Paul Heyman-esque, kind of what Callis was doing today, where he was strategically planting the seeds. Like you said, it's not, oh, that's out of nowhere. No, I could see going back. They've hinted at it. You could see it going either way. Does he do the right thing or does he do the wrong thing? But the wrong thing is an option, so it's not just a turn for the sake of a turn. And I actually agree with you. I like that direction. You say, you know, it's easier to be a heel. I mean, look at Roman Reigns as the best example in the last, like, you know, 20, maybe even 20 plus years. Honestly, pretty awful face that they kind of forced on. I think it's his natural temperament and personality to come across as unlikable.

1:46:09 As a D-bag.

1:46:10 Yeah, to the masses. So it's like, he just seems like everyone's screaming at the top of their lungs. And not that I feel like Stephen Borden is necessarily like a D-bag, but he does come across as maybe... a little awkward like you said maybe feels like he's a little rushed just being you know stink son so i.

1:46:28 Could see there's natural heat and being a nepo kid.

1:46:30 Exactly i mean dominic mysterio same way and he got majorly major heel heat i mean it's cooled down a little bit seemingly but um yeah no i could definitely see that being an option and i actually think it's probably best for him right now so he could learn how to be a heel get just experience more wrestling and then when the time is right you could turn him face again so.

1:46:50 iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native Podcast app on your iPhone, you can unlock our commercial-free versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts. You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of VIP shows, and you can unlock the entire VIP lineup, which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial-free versions of the free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on the PWTorch VIP logo. and then activate your three-day free trial.

1:47:19 And after that, you can become a VIP member using your Apple account. It's that easy. Enjoy a streamlined listening experience to our free shows and unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app. And there's less pressure on him to live up to his dad if people are just mad at him because he's standing with his arms crossed smugly, nodding along to everything Don Callis says, and he only has to say a few words. That's a lot easier role than to have to, you know, I mean, Sting was a pretty awful promo most of

1:48:00 his career, or he was at least below average when if had he been great, he would have helped WHW draw more money on all the years that he had a guaranteed flat contract to be a top guy. And he just came up short on promos left and right. you know his best work was when he was quiet and hanging out in the rafters and doing nothing because he has an aura and he has a charisma and there was a mystique to him then that he carried off well he's got a great look and obviously early on in the you know the first class champs with Ric Flair he was a fast rising star because he just had the spring in his legs and a exuberance and a joy of performance that was unmatched and There's so many positives on the Sting ledger, but he never

1:48:43 got good at promos. And so Borden has this look. He looks like he should be a star. And he's tall and he's got a great physique and he's a good athlete, but he's green and he's being pushed faster than he would if he weren't Sting's son. And you can't look past that. And he's not living up to it. He's not a disaster, but that's where it's just, what I just described is perfect balance. It's ripe to be a heel who gets heat. So I can imagine the young bucks, you know, like going, oh, you're in the wrong spot. Now Matt got hurt. Nick's mad at him because you didn't know what you're doing. And like just a moment of like just exasperation with Borden being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And, you know,

1:49:23 you see it on the NBA court, you know, like you pass a ball to a player and you expect him to do it. a wide receiver runs the route, but the quarterback throws it short. The wide receiver's like, God, I wish I had a better quarterback. Like you can have that Matt, that moment in a blood and guts where Borden's like, and it can be sort of subtle and it doesn't have to be disrespectful, but he can be like, I'm Sting's son. You don't talk to me like that. And we see a little glimpse into something that isn't this nice guy facade. And then the, and then the Alliance unravels and the fans faith in him unravels.

1:49:52 And then they're just angry that he said so. there there is a path i think to make that work and i think being that for two or three years before turning not two or three months is a good way to earn his keep and i think be a more compelling character with less pressure on him yeah uh no i.

1:50:08 Agree um and uh yeah i mean i think that's like you said that's a little bit of an easier path because there's a little less weight to carry as well and As you mentioned, maybe he has a miscommunication with the Bucs or something. I mean, it's not like he doesn't already have a history of maybe not being in the right spot at the right time that they can point to you. Granted, I don't know if you want to necessarily draw attention to that, but it kind of did tonight to a certain extent. So I could see that being a way they go.

1:50:31 Ducky D says, I don't like where this conversation is going, LOL. I'm not selling my Steve Borden stock. I see him getting more and more comfortable. I can finally see this turning into something.

1:50:41 Yeah, I'm not saying it's over if he's a face either. I mean, I did see some progress tonight, I would say.

1:50:47 Yeah.

1:50:47 He'll turn to definitely an option.

1:50:50 There is likely, but not for sure, a ceiling he's going to hit that does not live up to the second coming of Sting. And if that's the case... You don't want fans to be eyewitness to going. I liked him. I hope for more. And now the novelty is over and he's not that good. And the best way to avoid that is to do something sensible. That makes, you know, we want something that makes sense. Not just like, well, he's a bad baby face. We're going to make him a barely mediocre heel. No, I think there's potential in being a heel. I think he he's tall. He's good looking.

1:51:23 And I think there's, there's a smug, um, you know, sort of, I deserve better. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm stink son. Who, how dare anyone talk to me that way? Don Callis knows. Cause Don Callis said, you know, after the kiss from Fletcher, I give my men what they want, what they need. And so, you know, he's, he's, he can be the guy who tells Borden he's, he's as good as Borden thinks he is when he clearly isn't. Um, I think there's potential there, but maybe it'll flop. I'm not, I don't know. They don't, they don't Borden's range better than I do.

1:51:53 That was my line of the night, by the way, where he was, uh, he was, uh, uh, why don't you do that in the back? Yeah. Give me what they need. You know, it's the, it's the, uh, uh, was it, uh, hetero, uh, heteroerotic, uh, Don Callis coming to with the, with the paintings of everyone's super jacked and oily and, you know.

1:52:12 It's, it's, it's, it's hilarious. I mean, it's hilarious. Like I don't even know what Don Callis is going for with it. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's the paintings of him shirtless and his, you know, I mean, Trump's stealing his gimmick in a way lately. You know, he hasn't, Callis hasn't gone quite as far as Trump in the, you know, homoerotic observations of men's bodies lately, but, but Dan Kyle has to kind of start it. And Hey, you know, Dutch Mantel told me Don Donald Trump told him at WrestleMania that this whole uncle's ab thing and, and casting aspersions and, and blaming immigrants for everything seemed to get over with the crowd. Maybe I'll try that.

1:52:53 And so, you know, his whole shtick was born off of watching a wrestling promo from a heel. And so, I mean, maybe, Maybe Trump's been watching AW and likes it on Callis Kimmich. I don't know.

1:53:06 Yeah. I would give Schiavone a little credit, too, because I like his line where he goes, I'm just going to stay away from that. I don't know how to respond to that. So I thought that was pretty funny.

1:53:14 Well, yeah. Schiavone's line after Callis kissed Fletcher on the cheek was, why don't you hug and kiss in the back? And then Callis said, I give my men what they need when they need it. And the implications of that are like, what? And then Schiavone goes, I don't even want to go there.

1:53:28 Yeah.

1:53:29 And it's not it's not like anti-gay it's anti-pda it's just like seriously like what just keep it in the whatever you're doing keep it in the back no judgment but um yeah yeah it.

1:53:39 Was it was great um yeah another small point too just um is that but aside from stokely dressing up as james brown and brit baker dressing up as miss trunchbull from matilda what made tonight like a fright night dynamite like it's near halloween i guess but outside that it was almost nothing about it was themed really i.

1:53:58 Guess I would complain, but I also don't want it to be. But there is something to be said. If you slap a label and graphics on it, it probably should have more to it. And it was just what? It was Britt Baker and what? What else?

1:54:16 Stokely dressed up as James Brown. Britt dressed up as this trunchbull from Matilda. But like I said, I agree with you. I don't want them doing pumpkin fights, slamming pumpkins on each other's heads, like pumpkin speed fights. But just maybe the staging could have some kind of Halloween aspect to it or something.

1:54:32 Excalibur could take off the mask and dress as an encyclopedia salesman from the 50s, but we get to see his face. I want to dwell on my joke here. Excalibur on Halloween dresses up by removing a mask, not wearing it. I just want to underline my brilliant idea.

1:54:53 Yeah, he takes it off.

1:54:54 He takes it off.

1:54:55 There's another mask. He takes off the mask, and it's another Excalibur mask.

1:54:59 Yeah.

1:55:01 Or, no.

1:55:01 Well, people would have their phones out. But Excalibur would take his mask off, and they immediately digitize it on TV. So you can't see it. Like in a backstage skit, I guess.

1:55:08 It's like, what was it? what was it the tim allen tool time i think or whatever where the you never see the neighbor because you see the face facing the fence but you just hear his voice yeah wilson wilson was the neighbor yeah something like.

1:55:20 That um yeah taz trying to think what taz could dress up as um yeah i mean at least the announcer should.

1:55:28 Have dressed he could wear orange wasn't he like they tried to make him like a like a was it like a flintstone i don't even know what it was supposed to be it was like a flintstones thing.

1:55:35 I don't even really remember but yeah Well, Ducky D says, I'm sure the costume freaks will show up on Collision on Halloween night.

1:55:42 Well, that's tonight. I think they filmed it.

1:55:44 They're taping it tonight. So he would know. Yeah. Or we can know from the taping soon enough if we're going to have an extra Halloween theme on Collision. Actually, no, seriously, I don't think they're going to do anything more on Collision. I think they're just, it's, hey, it's Halloween week. We're going to do a graphic and They don't, they don't always, it's like spring break or whatever they call it, uh, beach break or whatever. They don't do anything for that either.

1:56:10 Yeah.

1:56:11 I mean, at least beach break this year though, was like in Florida and that kind of cool, like amphitheater place. Right. That was pretty cool. Um, but usually they didn't do much for it.

1:56:18 Yep.

1:56:19 Just a fake palm tree and a lounge chair on the stage. And now it's box checked. Anything else, JB?

1:56:25 Yeah.

1:56:25 Just one final point. Um, so as far as we talked about match order a little bit with the main event, but another reason I think you wouldn't want Josh Alexander in Darby to Because if you had Aminata win the title, you would know for a fact that pretty much for a fact that Derby is probably going to beat Josh Alexander.

1:56:44 And I actually wasn't 100% convinced because I was pretty sure one of those matches there'd be a title changed. And I thought it was more likely to be an Amanata versus Persephone, but I wasn't 100% sure. So when they had Alexander and Darby go first, I thought there was, I kind of bought into the pinfalls a little bit because I thought the idea of, you know, like maybe the Cal's family finally getting all the gold, it could be, maybe you have Josh Alexander win that match and take the title off Darby before blood and guts and kind of, you know, set him back for that match. So I thought that was a possibility. So that was kind of another point going towards match order. Oh, sorry.

1:57:16 I'm new. Especially because they gave Josh Alexander promo time for the first time. Yes.

1:57:21 He was okay. I mean, he was a little loud, too. I would come back on the grr, but what he said, his content was okay.

1:57:28 Yeah. Yeah.

1:57:29 Yeah.

1:57:30 All right, cool.

1:57:34 Hey, everyone. Longtime PWTorch communist Sean Radican here to let you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you understand the story better or see it another way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring on a special guest for the second half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas

1:58:16 of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on the news or give a standard hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but the context of why. Get ahead of the news. Get ahead of the pack with Ratican Worldwide only at PWTorch VIP.

1:58:49 Thanks, JB.

1:58:50 Yeah, just especially I wore my Lions hat and my New Hampshire jersey for the big game this Sunday. So I was a big division. Lions play the Vikings.

1:58:59 What's the big game? Oh, wait. For a 6-0 team, I'm sorry, JB. Playing the Lions isn't a big game.

1:59:05 Yeah.

1:59:06 It's a big game for us. It's the best offense in the league versus the best defense in the league. The immovable force meets the immovable object.

1:59:14 Yep. The unstoppable force meets the immovable object.

1:59:17 I will be at the game.

1:59:19 Oh, it's fun.

1:59:21 Yeah.

1:59:22 In all seriousness, it's about time the Vikings play a really good team that is healthy. Are they healthy? Lions healthy right now?

1:59:29 Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we're missing one of our stars. our starts, but he's been out the whole year so far, start safeties, but he'll be back in a couple of weeks. But, um, outside that we're relatively healthy, which is knock on wood. We haven't been in the last two years. So I know it's been sad to watch.

1:59:45 Yeah. I've been, I've been, I mean, other than the bike and been rooting for the lions to, you know, just, you grow up in a central division or NSC North fan and you're like, come on, they deserve their turn of.

1:59:53 The teams in the central. I'm definitely more of a Vikings fan than a bears fan or, or Packers. And that was good to be. It was so, it was very nice to be the Packers last week. So, uh, yeah, yeah, it always is.

2:00:02 We're always happy. No, that's a big game. The Vikings are 6-0, as I said. I think they have as much of a chance of finishing 6-11 as they do of winning like 14 games. Like, I think there is a chance with the schedule coming up that there's been a little bit of luck and a little bit of, you know, of happenstance that is just not going to continue on once they face teams better. But... I mean, they might, that defense might just be that good. Our special teams and our kicker might be that good. And our offense with Justin Jefferson and good offensive line and Murray being able to scramble if he's willing to is just enough for us to win 12 to six every week.

2:00:44 Yeah. I think I bet then the Vikings making the playoffs. I think the division is kind of a toss up. I think between the lions bears and Vikings could go pretty much any way there.

2:00:54 I don't, I think the.

2:00:55 Packers are a bit of a fraud if I'm being perfectly honest, but, um, you never know. Currently all four teams are in the playoffs at the season end today. So that's kind of wild.

2:01:03 That's crazy. Yeah. It's a good debate on it. Yeah. I mean, I am not, I mean, it's, I think they could go 17-0. I mean, I legit think they could. I also think they could go 6-11. We will know. I mean, the next three, four, five weeks are going to.

2:01:17 Tell a lot.

2:01:17 For sure, the next three, four weeks, if you win all those, then I'm fully bought in. You could lose a couple of those games too and still be fine.

2:01:23 Yeah.

2:01:24 But you come back to 17 games.

2:01:26 But if we lose two out of the next three, we're back to earth. And it's just like, okay, there's just any given week they can win, but any given week they can lose, they're not that special. And so, yeah, it's a big game.

2:01:37 If you look at two Super Bowl teams every year, it's typically two of the top five healthiest teams in the league, too, that didn't get too injured. So, yeah. Yeah.

2:01:45 All right, cool.

2:01:46 Anthony Edwards, too, though.

2:01:48 Yeah, don't bring that up because I have the game tape tonight and I don't want to encourage you to talk about it.

2:01:50 Well, it happened the other day.

2:01:52 No, I know what I'm saying. If I bring it up, then suddenly someone in the chat is going to say something about this game. So, literally, when I really am looking forward to a game, I just try to not even bring it up. But since you did, I will not look at the chat again. But obviously, everyone, spoilers.

2:02:04 Spoiler-free on... live nights. Cause I do veg out afterwards, watching my sports or wake up and do it or bring the, I bring my tablet to the gym and watch, watch them there too. Then I do that too. Yeah. Um, and so, but I will say this, um, we, we are deep as a guard position and with Lamello and, um, TJ Shannon. And I mean, there are, uh, Taryn Shannon jr. And, and, uh, IO, I mean, there, there is depth there. And I think, oh, and then we got, uh, just a cominga at a discount rate, he should be paid way more and he could have been paid way more. So there's so many play and, and Jada McDaniel can, can open up his offense when he, you know, when he's not deferring to Ant.

2:02:47 So I just think there's depth there. So I'm, I think they might end up by April and March being a better team because they have six to eight weeks without him. I'm less worried about the next two months, JB, and more worried about what does it say about Ant's future? If this is a recurring thing at his knee and he doesn't have that explosion and At 25 years old and to now have this be perhaps a chronic issue, that's the concern now. Does he go from one of the greatest players of his generation to just one of the good ones but hobbled by injury?

2:03:14 Yeah, and that's the thing with the NBA. I mean, with load management nowadays, I mean, a lot of teams are having their stars rest quite a bit of the season regardless anyway. And, you know, it's more about setting up for the playoffs. Granted, it can affect seeding to a certain extent. But, yeah, I mean, I think that the team will still be fine from a Western perspective.

2:03:30 And I'm in the East, so I don't really, you know, you guys can find it. It doesn't really affect me too much. But yeah, like it happened to Kate Cunningham last year. He had a random collapsed lung. I don't know where in the game. And then it was out for like a month right before the playoffs. Got back in time for the playoffs, but affected his cardio. So that was kind of unfortunate timing, but it happens.

2:03:47 This is the right time for it to happen. I mean, you know, it's a type of injury with that where you see if you can play with it. And obviously the grind of these first four games and the pain afterwards and the swelling and the discomfort is, led to a decision of okay we got to do something we didn't want to have to do but it's clear we have to do it but it's a good deep team and i think they'll be fine i'm not saying i would rather have a healthy aunt but it's not like oh my god there's just nothing left there especially with coming i mean this makes the coming assigning essential because he's been so good this year so far and now he'll take on a different role and be a little bit more of a centerpiece and he might actually shine for.

2:04:23 Sure and others can you know, others can gel over that time too, which is positive and get more court time than they normally would have.

2:04:29 So, yeah, but yeah, even if they don't just are below 500 and comes back and DiVincenzo might be back around, you know, January two and suddenly you just have depth and no one wants to face some of the playoffs and ants more rested because he took two months off earlier in the year.

2:04:42 Yeah.

2:04:42 I mean, it's a long season. I mean, like you said, like with load management, some players taking off like one of every three games nowadays, anyway, the star players.

2:04:49 So there, there's a real case being built up that the, that, the NBA is going to have to go to like a 60 game season and give, you know, one or two days off, not these back-to-backs.

2:04:58 I prefer every league cuts off games, but that doesn't do the best for the bottom line, I suppose. So yeah, we're going to get, yeah.

2:05:05 I'd like the NFL to go to 16, not 18. I like the major league baseball to cut way back. So every game means more in short season is going to cut back in the next, well, regular season.

2:05:14 They might add a game, like a seven game series, five game series for the divisional series, but cut down like 10 games, the regular season.

2:05:22 So, yeah, I mean, it's just, games mean more when there's fewer of them and it feels more special. And yeah, load management's a huge thing. And I mean, these just are in the game. It's just different now. It's, it's, it's, you know, it, the, the athletes are so much better in the game. It has more impact on, on their bodies and giving a day or two of rest just feels like we'll look back and go, what you did back to backs. I mean, that's crazy.

2:05:43 Yeah.

2:05:44 Just to make more money.

2:05:45 It's like in wrestling.

2:05:46 Yeah.

2:05:46 And you see more injuries because people, when they do more than that, your body can physically kind of handle should, you're going to see more injuries. It's just the nature of the beast.

2:05:53 Yeah.

2:05:53 For people who don't care about sports, but they like AEW and they've stuck with us, we'll reward them with this. Do you think Darby took too many chances tonight?

2:06:00 Relative to Darby? What they talked about him was crazy, though, is the fact that he's wrestled tonight. He's going to go to Arena Mexico Friday. Is it Friday or Saturday?

2:06:09 Friday.

2:06:09 Then he's going to run the New York City Marathon on Sunday. Then he's doing Blood and Guts on Wednesday. I'm like, your knees are going to be absolutely shot.

2:06:16 I know.

2:06:17 It's a lot to do in a week. But the guy is wild. I mean.

2:06:23 that leaping pile. I mean, like it said that it didn't even come up in two hours talking about dynamite to have, uh, Josh Alexander do a leaping tombstone pile driver off the ring apron onto two chairs set up at ringside. And we're just like, Oh yeah, that happened.

2:06:40 Yeah.

2:06:41 I mean, I don't think anyone goes limp in wrestling history. To my knowledge that I remember Darby, the guy is just like a rag doll, but he's really good at distributing his weight. I got to give him that. I mean, it's, it's uncanny how he's always, he should have so many more injuries, honestly, to this point than he really has.

2:06:55 It's kind of, it's kind of shocking. It is. All right.

2:06:58 Thanks, JB. Been a blast. Thanks, mate.

2:07:00 Appreciate it.

2:07:01 Yep.

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