WWE SMACKDOWN POST-SHOW (10/30) - Keller & Corbridge talk Sami vs. Trick, Dahausen-Gunther-Demon, what's next for Saints

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1:25 slash govip. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show. It's time to talk this week's WWE Friday Night Smackdown. All right, Eric. Sami Zayn's still champion. We didn't expect... Trick to win, but I thought that they did a good job painting a picture, having Trick say, I'm going to be there on Monday to face Roman on Raw so we can have two real-life action figures finally facing off before Crown Jewel. You know, you want to talk about both outcomes when you build up a match with the title at stake. Lots of shenanigans in this one, too. Johnny Gargano and even Candice LeRae helping out, even though she seems disgusted by Sami Zayn, typically, trying to help him win. But in the end, after

2:20 a match restart and no DQ rules, uh and it always backfired not always but it often backfires on gms they say no dq to offset heel interference johnny gargano and candace but then it just opened up the door for for sammy to blatantly hit trick williams with a low well a title belt and uh after a low blow and pin him so yeah i mean i it's kind of in the realm of what you would expect them to you know sort of quote air quotes in there creatively get through this match protect trick um create an entertaining scenario, I guess, that incorporates Gargano and Candice, who are a big part of Sami's act right now, and get a legit main event match that I think the casual fan might have thought had a chance to

3:02 be a title change. What stood out to you?

3:05 Yeah, I felt coming into this match, obviously did not expect a title change, but I felt like they checked all the boxes, checked them well, and Trick showed that he belonged. I thought he did really well in this main event. The effort was there. You know, it's it's difficult to not have a match with Sammy carrying you.

3:23 But I thought Trick did really, really well with it. And I was impressed.

3:27 Yeah.

3:28 Yeah, I agree. I think Trick carried his part well on the microphone, too, earlier. I thought he had a good promo. Yeah. Sammy, Sammy, a clinic on cutting a heel promo. He knows his character. Just did a great job on that. Comment on that, Eric.

3:45 Sammy's incredible. Everything he does, he's just hitting on all cylinders. His new line about being the most versatile and adaptable WWE superstar and pro wrestler. And it all works for him perfectly. I thought it was notable that he said he would go on to beat Trick tonight and then he would face Roman at Crown Jewel. He didn't predict the win against Roman. So I thought that was interesting.

4:09 I mean, I guess I know what you're saying and there could be something to that. He doesn't want to overpromise. But it's more like, well, what is at stake tonight? Winning tonight gets you to Crown Jewel. But yeah, point taken. Different champions would have said victory is on its way. Just a sidebar, WWE announced they moved from a stadium to an indoor venue for Crown Jewel or that Saudi Arabia announced that. Doesn't mean that will for sure happen there.

4:38 You know, it's a volatile region right now and it's been up in the air. Ari Manuel said, we've worked too hard to ruin our fiscal year and not go. Had a meeting earlier this year internally in TKO. So not the best framing of it for public consumption in terms of why they're going there. That all said... I don't think anybody said out loud Riyadh or Saudi Arabia tonight.

5:03 Like I'll, I'll take on Roman in Saudi Arabia. Did you pick up on anyone saying that?

5:07 I listened for, and I didn't hear a thing about it either. I think they're still being strategic about it.

5:12 Yeah.

5:12 And it's, it doesn't mean it's not going to be there. It's just, I think they know it draws attention to an issue that makes them look crass, heartless, money, grubbing profit, first welfare of our talent. Second, I will, uh, I won't applaud the decision to go there, but it'll dampen the crassness of it. If the TKO executives fly on the same private plane as the talent, the referees, the producers and the announcers, and don't get any special treatment. Um, you know, that's what they should do as a sign going, Hey, we believe this is safe. And if it's not, we're going down with you. Um, but that said, yes, uh, they're strategic and not saying out loud, um, Yeah, Saudi Arabia.

5:55 So that is what it is right now. But I think they did a nice job teasing the idea that the two champ versus champ matches could change depending on things that happen tonight. And I think that's what you want to do going into any scenario where the next PLE features the champs from each brand facing each other. Yeah, as far as the Gargano and Candice LeRae situation went, I, I, I don't, I, people might've missed it if you weren't watching super close, but when Sammy entered, did you pick up on it, Eric, when he entered the arena and he hugged Johnny and then he hugged Candace, did you see what happened?

6:29 I must've missed that.

6:31 Okay.

6:31 So Sammy hugs Johnny and they're like, yeah, they're all smiles. And then Sammy walks up to Candace and she smiles and Sammy and Candace hug and they're all smiling. Sammy looks at Candace. She looks at him. She smiles. And then as soon as Sammy looked away, uh, Candace just went, uh, like gross. Like, I don't like this guy. Um, It was just a nice little touch. Continuing the idea that Candace is not buying into Sammy.

6:54 I mean, this has been my hope for weeks. And last time I was on the podcast a few weeks ago, my idea, I really want there to be a Sammy Zane bloodline situation where he's the leader of a faction. But it's different dynamic. He thinks he's Roman Reigns. He thinks he's a tribal chief. But in reality, everyone is just latching on to him because they want to take advantage of him. And that Gargano has been plotting this with Candice the whole time and that they're just, and having this Roman versus Sammy match coming up now really to me, lends itself. Uh, I'm just waiting. I feel like it's going to happen where Sammy demands that people acknowledge him. And I'm just waiting for that moment. Cause

7:35 I think it's going to be hilarious. And I think they have so much room to play with this.

7:39 There's some, uh, comments in the chat on this match. Let's throw a couple of them up here in this opening segment. Um, Arlay 1984 says, I think the main event was fine. The objective is to create a plausible scenario that the challenger could win. And check that box. Yeah. SadlerVision3 says, I thought this was the best Trick-Sammy match.

8:01 Mark Paschetti said, I never thought Trick was going to win, even though they're trying to build some doubt whether he'd meet Reigns in Saudi Arabia. But he showed he'll definitely be a main eventer.

8:09 Yeah.

8:09 So let's pause there, Eric. What have you. Kind of more big picture than just tonight. What have you thought of Trick Williams' character, how he's performed in the ring, on the mic? Sammy, I thought in his promo that we praised a moment ago, made the point that everything that makes Trick Williams seem great, you can buy in a store. It's all costumes, superficial stuff. I thought it was a great line. Whereas Sammy said that what makes him great is grit, resilience, survival skills. He's gone out there and earned it all. And so.

8:43 Sammy trying to tear down Trick's shtick, his presentation, but Trick does have a distinct presentation. This is high praise, and I'm not saying he's in the same category or earned it yet, but Trick has the veneer of a gimmick that resembles Macho Man Randy Savage in the sense of he can become a cultural icon of this era.

9:11 Because his presentation is so distinct, but he can also wrestle at a high enough level, perhaps. And I mean, I think we're still on that journey. Randy was already there when he arrived in the WBF. He was phenomenal. But Trick, he can't rule that out. So anyway, your kind of big picture thoughts on Trick.

9:31 I think he's looking very promising. He's not in the level of an Obafemi or possibly even a Javon Evans. And I know there's been questions of Trick's commitment at times and what he's really looking for. But as opposed to others that you hear about, like a Tiffany Stratton, who seems to just not be able to put the pieces together, it feels to me like Trick is working his way there. They're trusting him in main events. They're putting him with the right people to learn. And I feel like he's passing every test right now. What he has cannot just be manufactured the way that Sammy's saying.

10:07 He has enough charisma and he has that innate it factor that he's going to go as far as he can take himself. And I feel like he's on the right track.

10:17 Yeah, yeah. I think it's been the bar of confidence and less confidence have been up and down over time with him since his call up to the main roster. But I think he's on a rising plane at this point, not descending. And we talk about.

10:35 Adaptable, too. Seems pretty clear at this point that Trick's you know, baby face turn was rushed and they had no choice, but to turn them. Cause they felt they had to, uh, he probably wasn't ready for that and he probably wasn't ready to do it. And he had to adjust on the fly probably. And now he's getting to the point where he's really settled in as a baby face and is making real progress now. And I think that that speaks to his effort, but more, most likely.

11:01 Yeah.

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11:37 Yeah.

11:39 To get the type of sustained main event level push, given, I think, how people feel about him behind the scenes, which is good charisma, but hasn't paid dues in the typical way that somebody who makes it to the top has and isn't as impressive off camera in those moments. particular ways that management and veterans look for, that Obafemi has, for instance, he's come through in that way. Trick, not quite at that level, so he will continue to prove it, but I think he's earning points as he goes along here.

12:17 And he wouldn't be getting the scrutiny if he didn't have a main event look, a main event gimmick, great athleticism, or, you know, very good athleticism, I should say the word great for the next level up, but certainly more than suitable. Some other comments in the chat here about this match. Mark Paschetti says, I thought Trick went too cartoonish with his facial expressions. I really think staying more serious, less Booker T, will help him get back into the future conversation closer to Oba's level. I get what he's saying.

12:48 You don't want to be cartoonish, but Trick and Oba are different personas. They're different people in terms of their presentation. And it would I think there's a time to be serious. And I think fighting for the world title is one of them. And I would dial down some of the over the top mannerisms, but I don't think you should eliminate them and strip away who you are because it almost would then send a signal that I don't take things seriously, except when I'm at a world title match, as opposed to, you know, striking a pose, letting out a yell and in the middle of a match is kind of who I am. It's what psychs me up.

13:22 And as long as it's done strategically, where it doesn't look like, I'm critical of this a lot, wrestlers who play to the crowd at the expense of the momentum in the match. If he's waiting for his opponent to stand, for instance, while he strikes a pose and gets the crowd going, but as soon as the opponent stands, then he moves in on him, that's fine. So if it's done in a more logical way, that works. So I don't know. How do you feel about what Mark is saying there, Eric?

13:45 I didn't think it was too cartoonish. I think it's in character. Everything he does, nothing jumped out to me as being that took me out of it. That's kind of how I look at it. If someone makes an expression that takes me out of the moment, uh, then I noticed, but in this case, nothing took me out of it. I was in the match. Uh, nothing he did made me feel like it was out of character or didn't make sense within the context of the match.

14:09 Yep.

14:09 Yep.

14:10 It didn't strike me either, but that's why I have the chat. Thanks Mark for the comment. Uh, all right. Sitee says there's more to come from the Garganos. They didn't highlight it, but Candice was pulling disdainful faces behind Sammy's back right at the start. Indeed, I brought that up. Arlay says, yes, Candice always seems annoyed with Sammy. Where do you think that's headed? What do you make of Candice?

14:34 You might have missed it this week, but I mean, for weeks and weeks, obviously, she's been skeptical of Sammy buttering up Johnny and kind of conning Johnny into... thinking he's on his side when he's always using Johnny in a self-serving way. And Candice seems to see through it, which is what surprised me a little bit about her so willingly helping with the title belt.

14:54 I strongly believe that Johnny is not as stupid as he's coming across. I think he knows what he's doing. I think that him and Candice are talking about this. You know, I just mentioned my idea for Sammy's group. I think they're going to have another member add to it. And if I had to guess, it's probably going to be Ricky saints. I think he's probably going to be the next person to join up with this group. And I see a lot of room there for them to kind of like get the rub off of Sammy, not only, uh, you know, behind the scenes, but in character as well.

15:22 They're like, hey, let's latch ourselves on to the WWE champion because we know that he's easy prey and we can beat him. I think that's what they're looking at. And it'll just lead to, for Gargano in particular, I think it's going to lead to a baby face turned down the road. With Saints, I don't see that, but, you know, one step at a time.

15:39 Yeah, interesting. Interesting. Droll, who will join us as a caller in a few minutes, says, I like that two-way what Candice did. The story they're telling with them is so good and I hope they start a group And then Candice can help Johnny turn good. I think there was, understandably so, people thinking this is not good for Johnny's career.

15:58 He's just laying on a crate for months and months and months and it's just turning him into a joke. But I mean, the way he's coming out of it, the way that I think this is the best case scenario for Johnny Gargano fans, because he is hanging out with the world champion in a storyline that feels like it's heading towards him. standing up to sammy or sammy having enough of him and candace i mean you know the average fan can watch and think it could go either way but they're they're spending tv time together in a way that doesn't seem like like a little yachty and trick where you know no one's looking for a little yachty versus trick match like that means not a wrestler it's not a great example but it's right in

16:31 front of us here it's not like johnny is forever just the little buddy of sammy like he's a professional wrestler johnny wrestling so it does seem like in the end this weird path we took might be a chapter of Johnny's career that elevates him on the main roster in a way that other more traditional routes wouldn't have succeeded at.

16:52 Yeah, I think we need to recontextualize Sammy Lang on the crate for what it really was. And I was fully on board with this at the time. I remember saying, I like this. Milk it as long as we can. Because in my mind, it goes back to where two wrestlers are down in the ring and they're just waiting for the crowd. They're waiting for the crowd. They're waiting for the crowd. And you go, so it's so uncomfortable and it gets so quiet. that you start getting them back you start getting them back i felt the same way about gargano it was as if he was down in the ring waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting until it became so uncomfortable people are out on it then you wait longer until they come back

17:31 and i feel like that's what they did with him and now we're seeing the effects of that and it's working no granted they had to follow up on it well and i think they have.

17:40 Yeah yep well put All right, let's see what others are saying. SadlerVision3 says, Candice probably tries to persuade Johnny to stop being a lackey and realizes he's being used, but Johnny probably ignores her at first and slowly realizes he's being used and turned face. That seems to be the most, the path, it seems to be the most obvious interpretation of the path that they're on. I am skeptical of the idea that Johnny is in on it now.

18:07 And the reason I say that, Eric, is I think he and Candice would be together on that and then i think candace would hide her disdain for sammy knowing the cameras are on like if your plot is hey let's a husband and wife two people on tv who are paired together under whatever circumstance we want to trick the heel champion and letting his guard down i think they'd be on the same page and how to portray it now that's giving credit to dota b to not to tell the story in the most logical way possible they don't always tell stories in the most logical way possible yeah that's a really.

18:37 Good point yeah you would think and granted it It's always operating on that assumption. Is Zayn going back and watching his matches and seeing how she reacts? But, you know, that is a good point. You would think they would be a united front.

18:48 And even if Sami doesn't, you would think Gargano and LeRae, if they're plotting this, if they have this plan they've concocted, they would cover for that just in case.

19:00 Yeah, absolutely.

19:00 You know, you would hope they would. If we're going to cheer them in the end, if that's the goal, you want them to be smart about it. Goodfella says, yeah, Candice knows it's a sham. Uh, Darrell says, uh, Johnny should be blind and it should take someone else coming in, uh, with Candace also to help him find out he's being used. Uh, powder pizza. Sammy has gotten his hooks into Candace's man.

19:23 She wants to be supportive and hopes it'll work out, but she has her doubts and looks apprehensive.

19:26 Yeah.

19:27 I mean, that's, I like that the announcers don't draw a ton of attention to it, you know, undue attention. Um, yeah, I think they should in passing though, say, Hmm, did you notice that? Candice doesn't seem to like Sammy as much as Johnny. Like, just little things. Not to hit us over the head with it, but if they don't, because we're noticing, it comes across like they're part of the show and in on the con. And I always think that every story on TV should be told in a way that the announcers can react in a way to it where they're acknowledging what the viewers are seeing.

19:58 So it doesn't seem like they're not with the viewers. I think that bond is really important for the viewing experience that fans feel the announcers are on their side and aren't just pitch men. selectively noticing and commenting on things.

20:11 All right.

20:12 Let's, let's pause and introduce ourselves and then we'll get to other segments on the show.

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21:04 This is a wade keller pro wrestling post show for uh friday october 30th 2026 i'm wade keller host of the show editor publisher founder of progressing torch the newsletter the website and a bunch of podcasts search wade keller and pw torch in your podcast app to subscribe to all our free shows you can also go vip and get commercial free versions of the shows vip exclusive podcasts including i think eight straight days now of wade keller news updates wade keller hotlines with uh news updates running down the headlines of the day providing backstage insight from wb aw and otherwise um some commentary exclusive to those hotlines they run i know 12 to 30 minutes uh i think has been kind of the range over the

21:43 past week a feature that i did um for like 10 straight years without skipping a day for a while and um took a break from but um i've been doing it again there's been a lot of news so go vip check it out don't miss out um i've also been um clarifying some stories that have been in the news that are aggregated, propagated, some other agated out there and creating some clarity and nuance to some of the reporting on some of the headlines this week, too, from my sources who are pushing back a little bit on some of the framing of some of the bigger stories this week. So that's for a VIP membership, a GoVIP, pwtorch.com slash GoVIP gives you all the details on how to sign up and what comes with a membership. And that

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22:56 We are just over a week away from Crown Jewel, wherever it takes place. And I am pleased to be joined by PWTorch contributor Eric Corbridge, who covers SmackDown alongside me with his report every Friday night on PWTorch, the website. Eric, welcome to the Coast Chair.

23:14 Thanks, Wade. It's great to be here as always. And I wasn't sure what this show was going to be like going into it, but I thought we ended up getting a pretty fun show.

23:22 I agree. Yeah.

23:23 Yeah.

23:23 And we'll probably talk about the Halloween theme in a moment, too. And Dan Housen and the payoff to a couple of things there. If you are watching us live on YouTube, thank you. You can find us on YouTube live after Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown. Those are the post shows I host. I occasionally also host the post-PLE or pay-per-view roundtables with a rotation of other hosts on the weekend shows. We also have our PWT Talks NXT crew that hosts our live show on Tuesday nights after NXT. So if you are listening to us on the podcast side of things, you're invited to join us on our live stream on YouTube. Again, just search PWTorch on YouTube and you can find us there.

24:00 I always have a direct link to our YouTube post show. in my TV reports that cover Raw, Dynamite, and SmackDown every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. So if you're not watching that wrestling show for any reason, maybe you're watching sports on another channel or have something else going on, but you want to see what happened on the show, my reports are a good way to check it out with details.

24:18 We have other old perspective reports on those shows along with. Covering other shows like Impact and Evolve too on the website. So check that all out. And yeah, and then join us. If you're watching us on YouTube and you also listen to podcasts, these turn into podcasts when we're done with a live stream. Again, search Wade Keller and subscribe to those to sync that up. Eric, let's, oh, I invite everybody to join in the chat if you haven't yet, if you're watching us live on YouTube. And you can also email us at wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com. If you want to contribute thoughts on the show or a question, that email inbox is always open to you also. All right.

24:59 I think that's all the plugs. So let's just talk about the Halloween theme tonight. It was Dan Housen's very nice, very evil SmackDown. They had a cool kind of old movie vibe to introduce things. uh, introduced the show. Dan Housen had his lab set up. They, uh, showed off a Frankenstein, uh, version of the gingerbread man. I believe.

25:20 Did I get that right in the back at one point?

25:22 Yeah.

25:23 Um, it was, it was, I pick on WWE for this because I think it's easy to clean up and it's kind of annoying, immersion breaking. But after the trick Lil Yachty backstage interview, the camera just followed them like 10 steps, which they never do after an interview for any other reason. It was unforeseeable that Lil Yachty would stop and pause and notice a sign on the door just scratched that said, keep out. Obviously, Dan Housen created a sign on paper taped to the door. Um, but fortunately for the first time ever, WWE's director decided to turn the camera, have the camera follow the wrestlers for 10 seconds after they, or three seconds, but 10 feet after they finished their interview. But anyway, nonetheless, besides that

26:00 amateur hour production, uh, stuff that they do, um, he entered the room and, and just, and got all wide eyed when he saw the gingerbread man, Frankenstein version. Um, but then later Dan Housen, uh, what did he offered to trade? The Money in the Bank briefcase, it was a Chelsea Green, right? Or I mean, I thought Tiffany. Yeah, Tiffany. Yeah, of course. Trade a jar of teeth. And then we had announcers debate how old the teeth were. I think, or something. So we had that Dan Housen moment. And then also he's going to come to the ring and reveal his grand experiment. And then Gunther beat him up.

26:37 But then the lights went out or went red. And then the demon version of Finn Balor popped up and brawled and beat up Gunther for a while. So we should have seen that coming. I don't know if you did. Maybe you did. But to forward the slightly dormant and now reactivated Finn Balor-Gunther feud. So that was pretty much the extent of Danhausen's participation and pretty much the end of, or the only thing that was really Halloween themed that I can think of. Eric, what did you think? Did they overdo it or do it just right? Or should they have done more?

27:11 I thought they did it just right. You don't want to overexpose Danhausen. I think they've realized that. And if they want him to stick around for a while, and it seems like everybody thinks he's a good guy, let's not overexpose him to the point we can't use him anymore. And Halloween's a perfect night to use him, but he wasn't in every segment. He had a couple key things he was going to accomplish, and I thought they did him well.

27:33 They, uh.

27:35 I thought it was interesting that they trolled us with the Gingerbread Man tees, and then they also trolled us with the Mini Hausens, so only to have an actual, like, legitimate reveal that was satisfying and called back to, what, a month ago? When Danhausen had his evil detector and... We didn't understand why at the time that it was going off on Balor. I certainly didn't put those pieces together.

28:01 Maybe a lot of people did, but I thought it was very satisfying to see that that's how this came together and that, oh yeah, of course, he's got a demon inside of him. And on top of that, I thought it was an effective use of Gunther in that first he bullies Danhausen and then he bullies the Minihausens and I'll... I really enjoyed him throwing the pumpkins at them and just using the one minihausen to clear off a table with his whole body and then powerbomb him through it. It just, it furthers Gunther's character so much.

28:33 It makes him look like this bully so that when Balor comes down to combat him, it makes Balor look even better. So I don't know. I thought it was great. You're on mute, Wade.

28:47 So by putting Gunther, Mark Bischetti in the chat says, by putting Gunther in a program with Danhausen, they're wasting all the equity they built up by having him retire John Cena and AJ Styles. It's so dumb. On the contrary, Sadler version three, counter view here, says Danhausen, Gunther, Finn was probably the best of the awful type of Vince S.

29:04 Corny holiday segments. And so obviously Sadler is more on your side there, Eric, than Mark's. But is Gunther... praise for this segment inclusive, but are they utilizing Gunther in a way that that's defining him down by having him be obsessed with Danhausen or is the counter argument to that, which I think Corey Grace pointed out, Danhausen or Gunther thinks Danhausen is beneath a business that he reveres. Now you don't want to hit that too hard because it sort of could be a babyface stance to take, you know, a corny, overexposed, you know, comedy figure. But is it enough in line with Gunther's character that it doesn't feel like a demotion, but just Gunther is so irritated by him, he can't help but go after him, and Danhausen has

29:51 antagonized him, and if it leads to a demon Gunther match, which, you know, seems like where we're going... Maybe there was something, maybe it all comes together in a way that alleviates some of what people thought was a downside of Gunther being sidetracked with Danhausen or defining him down a bit.

30:10 I think that Gunther's not going to be in the championship picture at all times. He just can't be. And there's other people in those pictures right now. So the next best thing for me is to continue to highlight how he is such a bully. And who better to bully than Danhausen? And apparently a bunch of mini housings.

30:28 Like it just, to me, it just furthers, it just adds the layer onto him of continuing to be a jerk to people. and thinking he's better than everyone else. And today he sort of, he did all those things, but then he kind of got put in his place because he was taken aback when the demon showed up. His mouth was agape. He was completely frozen by the whole thing. And now it leads to a big time match.

30:52 It will be a big match when he faces the demon to the point that I'm actually not sure who will win that match. You know, I would normally assume Gunther's going to win any match, but the demon doesn't lose often. So who knows?

31:08 It's next-level coverage that you come to expect from the PW Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media experience that I know many of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at a time, and settle in for high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. Darrell says, I'm happy they haven't let Dan Housen curse Gunther because that would be bad. Yeah, they've softened the curse, the curse shtick a bit. Perhaps at Gunther's request like that, he doesn't want to be selling that silliness. Father Repeat says, I don't mind this

31:51 type of silliness in small doses, but I think Gunther should not exist in the same universe as Dan Housen. I get that. Yeah, I get it too.

31:58 I will take back everything if... Danhausen curses Gunther during the match, and that's why the demon wins. I will take everything back that I just said, supporting this.

32:09 There's a way to have a placebo effect, I guess. You know, where Gunther's just upset with Danhausen being there, and he's like, your curse isn't going to work on me, but because he's distracted yelling at Danhausen to get out of his precious ring, it backfires. But Gunther obviously should not sell a curse.

32:26 Wait, are we going to go back to the old argument of, is it always a placebo effect anyway, though? Or is it a real curse?

32:32 You know, we can do a separate show on that and just go through the whole history.

32:35 We've had that argument before.

32:36 Yeah. Yeah. We have to run that through the memory machine and bring everything back and all the context. Yeah. And help from production, too, sometimes, apparently.

32:48 Absolutely.

32:49 Yeah. Co-conspirators.

32:50 Yeah.

32:50 We can believe that Dan Housen goes to the producers backstage and says, I need you to do this.

32:54 This, this, and this.

32:55 Yeah. Derek Mitchell says, the last time Demon was used, WrestleMania 42... Before that was WrestleMania 39 against Edge and Hell in a Cell. He also had a super chat, Derek. Thank you, Derek, for the super chat. I know you got one earlier we'll get to. King of the super chats here on this show, Derek says, remember Dan Housen's evil detector going off when he scanned Finn backstage on October 9th on SmackDown? That was a dead giveaway. The demon was coming to face Gunther. Good callback or good catch there, Derek. It's fun when there's something you can look back on and go, ah, okay. you know, they've been planning this and yeah.

33:33 It's nice when a plan comes together. I'd be curious if anyone, like if Derek or anyone saw that coming back then, cause I certainly did not. Yeah.

33:40 Derek, you should have said something back then if you want full points or if you did let us know, we'll give you credit.

33:45 I just didn't.

33:47 Darrell says, bring back, bringing back the demon is a good thing since the demon has been away for years. Now this could have helped push Finn up the card. I mean, it makes sense on Halloween week. I don't know if the demon makes sense for Finn, you know, weekend and week out, but. Halloween weekend, it's definitely something that should come up every year as an option when you got Balor around. Okay, as far as Gunther's treatment, Goodfellas says, if you heat Gunther up, you have to put the belt on him again or put him in the main event. They're just giving other people the chance. LOL, that's my guess. Yeah, there's got to be a level of rotation. I think it's not so much, well, he can't always be in the main event world title scene

34:20 as much as what indications are there in the narrative that Gunther... is still a top, top guy. And just little comments here and there by announcers, it's sort of like, you know, Ricky Starks didn't get a ring entrance. Well, indicative he's probably losing and he's not a priority to push at this moment. There's little signs that WWE gives away in how they present people. And with Gunther, he just feels like he's above Damian Priest a little bit, but he's nowhere near Roman or Cody. And the question is, if you're a Gunther fan, do you want to see him Seem like he's, you know, he's not far off from that, you know, somewhere in between. But if you want more, I think then the lack of narrative support,

35:03 you know, like, oh, you know, just Gunther should be, you know, world champion and not messing with this stuff. Just little things like that when they're absent make you think, well, maybe they don't think as highly of him. Or you just, they do, but you get worried that the audience is perceiving him now lower because of that. And I think that's where some of the criticism comes from. It's just the amplification effect of both Danhausen and not being in the mix with the very top people right now. But SadlerVision3 says, I feel like they're just occupying Guther's time right now. He's been in the IC or WWE title mix like 95% of his time in the main roster.

35:34 I'm not concerned about him for now. I think the key, Eric, would be, does he ever get a push at a SummerSlam or a WrestleMania that feels like that sort of it's it's intense it's not intangible try the wrong term but it's sort of just a feeling you get are they treating his match as if it could and night two even if you know it's not um or is he just that perennial edge Alberto Del Rio you know even CM Punk in his first title reign where he never headlined a pay-per-view unless he was against John Cena or The Rock otherwise he was always lower on the card That's I think the framing of him that Gunther fans who think highly of him think, don't limit him to that level. Let's bring him up to the very top.

36:18 Yeah, it's interesting because you know, we know who our perennial main eventers are, the veterans with punk and Orton and Cody and whomever. But, and then we talk a lot about Oba and Brown breaker and guys that are just on the verge now, but I feel like Gunther has kind of gotten lost in the shuffle lately. Uh, maybe just cause he hasn't been around as much, or maybe it is because he's been busy with Dan house and when he's been on screen. Um, but I don't feel like we talk about him as much. So I think they need to do something, uh, Royal Rumble season, WrestleMania season this year to kind of reestablish him into that tier so we don't forget. Because I think that's where he belongs.

36:57 Sadler added, it's just something for Gunther to do for the time being. I think Gunther's peak probably is a night one WrestleMania main eventer. I think he's worthy of night two, but I'm just sensing night one main event is what Dodie Booker's think he is. Yeah. And when you got Roman around and Cody, I mean, you kind of understand, but, you know, would you, push Seth there instead of Gunther, you know, if there's a chance.

37:19 I would be happy with a night two Roman Gunther match. I would enjoy that. Yes.

37:24 I hope we get that.

37:24 That would feel very fresh.

37:26 Yep.

37:27 It really would. Uh, Derek Mitchell says the demon persona is overrated. It feels more like a gimmick driven by hype rather than actual substance. It's never truly felt menacing or elevating Finn Balor's career trajectory. How do you feel about that?

37:38 Uh, I see it. I think it always has something to do for me with the fact that Balor, you know, while he's incredible shape, he's not a very big guy. And so putting this sort of persona on someone who's not a very big guy, it becomes a little less intimidating. So and then maybe there's a little bit of like a cartoonish aspect that kind of brings it down a notch, too.

38:01 So I've always kind of felt that way, too. And when he finally lost as the demon, I felt like that took a lot of steam.

38:08 Out of it, too.

38:10 Daryl says people did call it in the chat back when Dan Housen did that evil tester on Valor. So, all right. Yeah, I believe Daryl. All right.

38:18 Very good.

38:19 Let's go to our first caller. It's Halloween theme here. Daryl will be coming up later. We have someone calling themselves Spider-Man. And we can rule out one person. It's not. Crofton.

38:35 Okay.

38:37 The comment under Spider-Man is definitely not Crofton. Spider-Man, it is an honor. By the way, Spider-Man, what are you going as for Halloween?

38:51 Well, this is great weight. I love Halloween because I can go as myself. Nobody asks any questions. In fact, everybody's dressed like me. It's great. I do the finger pointing thing with people all the time. You ever see that? We do that. The kids love it. Kids love it. Anyway, I'm a big fan of the show. Recently went VIP.

39:11 Sometimes I'm up there fighting Electro, and it's just I get bored. And listening to you guys always makes my day. Also, this new forum that you've launched, just great on the worldwide web i love the web and oh my god i i've been on there and i gotta encourage everybody to do it it's it's really great and i know that you you guys have already talked a bit about this guy sammy zane but i'm a huge fan of uh of sammy zane and i have a question for you guys based on the promo earlier um And from his appearance on Raw this week, which I thought that Sammy has taken this new turn where he's kind of drinking his own Kool-Aid. And he's talking about how great he is and how awesome he is and how he is going to be remembered as one of the greatest

40:04 of all time. And I'm just wondering if he if we are supposed to think that he fundamentally believes that or that he's trying to convince himself of that, because for years, Sammy has been characterized by his insecurity, like wanting to be part of the bloodline. Even the conspiracy theorists thinking that everybody is against him. This guy has never been like confident, has been the last thing that he has been. And so now just this past week in particular, even like when he's hitting water bottles, you feel like he feels disrespected, but he never felt confident.

40:42 Now he's putting on a persona of somebody who's a survivor, who's confident. Do you believe that we are supposed to think that he is confident or that he is deluding himself? into thinking that he's confident.

40:59 I know that I've felt, Spider-Man, that Sammy, you said it yourself, putting on a persona. I think that the insecurities are still there, but he's hiding it behind this new bluster. And it's almost like he's trying to convince himself that he believes everything he's saying while he's spouting it out so confidently. That's the way I choose to believe how it's working out, but I don't know if you disagree, Wade.

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42:00 Well, I was, I was thinking it's almost the same thing. Does he believe it or is he delusional? If he's delusional, he believes it.

42:06 Right.

42:07 You know, so I think the question is, um, is he saying it knowing it's not true, but feeling that's what he has to say as a champion out of insecurity, or does he say it believing it's true? I think he says it and I, and, and to say, you know, delusional, something you kind of add after, after, words to go okay what if he really if he's serious he's delusional but i think he's serious i think he i think he believes his narrative about himself that would be what i'd say and i think i my hunch is sammy would say yes when i cut those promos in character because he likes to talk about His character in real time, I'm a little against that, but deconstructing in mainstream media what you're doing while it's still happening. But he does that. So,

43:01 you know, next time around, it'd be an interesting question. You know, does does Sami Zayn, the WWE Undisputed Champion, really believe what he says or is he saying it out of insecurity or affront?

43:12 Yeah, I see.

43:13 To me, there's a difference between delusion and insecurities. I don't think he's delusional because I don't necessarily think he fully believes what he's saying. I think he's insecure and he's trying to say it out loud so many times that he starts to believe it.

43:26 To manifest it.

43:27 To manifest it, to start to believe it. And to me, the proof is that if he was so confident in himself, he wouldn't continually have to stoop to cheating to win. And since he has to do that, then he's not that confident. So if he was winning matches without help and always having to trick people into helping him, Then his confidence would be justified. But until then, it's just insecurity.

43:52 He seems to have rebranded himself this week as a survivor. It's like he scratches and he claws and he survives. And I had a villain like this, the lizard. Long story. Anyway, but if.

44:09 That is– Someone should write a book about it.

44:14 There's been many.

44:15 He needs a therapist. But what I was going to say about Sammy is if he has convinced himself that he is in fact this survivor, then I feel like the booking is supporting that. There are two title matches on two shows in one week for the main title. I can't remember the last time that that has happened, both on Raw and SmackDown. same champion. But I feel like that's, you know, a pretty big deal. And the fact that he is, you know, it's young stars that he's fighting against and he's the grizzled veteran who feels justified in the tactics that he's using to survive and is now painting himself as a survivor that allows him to justify these things. Like again, that the no DQ stipulation was added so he can say, well, You know, yeah,

45:05 I nailed them. I nailed them in the balls, but that was fair game. You know, you can almost see the justification right itself. So I just I just feel that this this like I'm a survivor is the new sort of lens in which they want us to see him or he wants us to see them.

45:22 I think he definitely thinks anything that he does is justified based on past injustice. And that's what drives him. And being a survivor is a way to put a positive frame around any tactic he uses. I am surviving injustice. I'm surviving being underestimated. I'm surviving the system being against me.

45:43 And I think that fits. Derek Mitchell in the chat says, I think Sammy believes what he's saying and believes he's a survivor. Next thing you know, he'll come out too. I'm Survivor by Destiny Child. All right. Eric, you want to add anything?

45:57 No.

45:57 I mean, I think the good thing is about whatever side we land on on this, Sammy continues to develop his character to where it's so interesting that we even want to have this kind of debate about it.

46:07 Of course.

46:07 I think that just shows why it's hitting on full cylinders.

46:11 Mike Robson, go ahead.

46:14 Again, Wade, I'm definitely not Crofton. Just it's underneath the thing.

46:20 Just want to be clear. Not Crofton.

46:23 I'm Spider-Man. People make– I put it down there because people make that mistake all the time.

46:27 Both of us.

46:28 Obviously extremely famous. So I was going to say about Chelsea Green and Sami Zayn being the champions of SmackDown. I know we've talked about this before. The idea, not me, obviously other people, have talked about the fact that they're both kind of presented as wheat champions. What's very interesting is that their alignment is completely different. Chelsea being the baby face. uh, and, and Sammy obviously being the heel and Chelsea winning tonight with the roll up, um, in, in, in a match, which I think was supposed to make her seem weak so that when live came out, she could make that point. And you get the sense that she is surviving by hook or by crook, just like Sammy is, but one is being presented as, as brave

47:17 and honorable and doing their best. And the other one is being presented, um, you know, as, as, as a heel. And it just feels, feels so bizarre having the same contrast with similar characters on, on the, on the same show. And I I'm wondering if you guys feel that as well, or both, both stories can exist together and it doesn't bother, it doesn't bother you. For me, I feel like it makes, it complicates the way I feel about Chelsea as a baby face makes me think that you know, if Sammy's a heel, well then she's, you know, rolling up. She's got her friend running down, watching her back. Maybe she's, she's heelish as well.

48:01 So I think there's differences in the characters in that. Well, obviously one's a baby face, one's a heel, but I think with Chelsea, she's straight up admitting her insecurities where Sammy is clearly either masking them or starting to get past them into some into the confidence we talked about. I think that's the difference.

48:25 No, I think that that makes a good point, Eric. It's true. She totally has been owning them. And I know like she's come across as cowardly for a while, but now she's sort of stepping into it being like, I own these things and I'm I'm going to overcome them, where Sammy seems to have flipped the switch to being like, no, I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I am going to survive.

48:48 Did you guys pick up on Michael Cole saying that Chelsea started as an interim champion and that designation has been stripped? Oh, no, I didn't. Yeah, Cole said that in commentary tonight.

48:58 Yeah.

48:58 So no explanation of why, but that's now official because it's been conspicuous by its absence, and now Cole is acknowledging that is deliberate.

49:08 I thought they had mentioned it a while back in passing, but I could be misremembering that too, because it did seem odd that it just sort of wasn't talked about. Yeah.

49:17 And, I mean, it'd be nice to have an official explanation of why it was and now it's not. It'd be nice to have an update on why. But I thought.

49:25 It was interesting that Liv Morgan came down and was echoing their similar journeys and how they were underestimated and then worked really hard to get where they are um which is all true so that and i'm glad that live took it a different direction after that but at a certain point it felt like okay the fans are booing live for saying things that are very babyface like right now.

49:48 Yeah i thought i went through the same thing i thought wise live putting them both putting over chelsea as yeah nobody believed in us we had overcome a overcome early skeptics. And now we've risen to the top, but it was just to set herself up as saying, but I'm a real champion. And Chelsea, you're a joke of a champion. So she was like, yeah, people were similar.

50:09 I'm going to make you think, I think we're similar, but then I'm going to pull the rug right out from out of this compliment and say, and so I thought the idea of, of being a heel who looks like they're about to be gracious and then isn't, it can, can be effective. And I think that that worked on me.

50:24 The problem with that segment for me was that the match was bad beforehand. Nikki and Chelsea, it felt really slow and rehearsed. And then it ended on a roll-up. And then Liv comes out and she says, you're a fake champion. And it just resonated too much. Like if Chelsea had looked better in that match or won more dominantly against Nikki, well, then she would be able to stand sort of more firm as a baby face. And she kind of lost the upper ground following that match.

51:08 Yeah. So, yeah. And I wrote in my report that the crowd was eerily quiet during this match and it wasn't because of the Halloween theme and that it felt like they were in slow motion during the match. And it really just, it was like a crawl. And then everything, I'm so tired of the false cash-ins, which also felt like it was in slow motion again. They rinse, repeat the exact same way they're going to do it every time.

51:34 It just makes your baby face look like an idiot every single time. I don't want to go off on a whole rant on money in the bank because I've done it before, but stop recycling the exact same storyline for every single money in the bank cash in. A baby face really should announce when they are going to cash in for a real match and not want to win it in a cheap way. Because if you were forced to say, will Tiffany Stratton or Penta cash in and have a memorable title reign? Does anybody think they will?

52:07 If anything, they'll have a cheap win and probably lose it within a month. And that's what normally happens. So just stop doing it.

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52:52 The Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven day free trial. Rich fan and I on the VIP show, everything with Richard Wade went in depth on this. And I was like, it's not just the repetitiveness of it. Although that is for sure a criticism. It's the idea of diminishing what it means to be champion by the very nature of this stipulation. The idea that you can like walking around

53:39 with the top championship and It needs to stand for something. And when it doesn't, that has to be a really big deal. And money in the bank, inherently the way it's used, as you say, Eric, for a baby face, even cashing in when a champ is down, what it says is a lot of these champions on the roll call of champions, like Sammy has talked this week, I didn't think I'd ever be champion. Well, There's two world titles and some of the people on the list that Sammy's so happy to be part of now are on it merely because they scored a pinfall after the champion was in a grueling match and they were fresh and they cashed in. Now you can say, well, they earned it in the grueling ladder match. Yeah, but it doesn't

54:18 mean that they're better than the champion. Like the person who walks around with the title belt should have been in a situation where the viewer in the world that we're immersed in watching WWE or any wrestling company there should be some merit to them being champion. And when the company sets up an actual gimmick match for entertainment purposes that fans pop for, it doesn't mean there's not a bigger damage being done to the very notion that in this world, if you have the top title, you either really earned it, two fresh wrestlers facing off or three way or four way, although that's diminished too. um you know you can lose a title without getting paid if you're the champion i mean that's stupid too there's

55:02 a lot of things that he does for the sake of entertainment um that that undercuts the notion that the champ means something and i don't think it ultimately is worth it but they're probably gonna get rid of it but i don't mean we can't point out that it i think it has a it has a a rarely noted very negative effect on the prestige of being championed and on the list of champions and then just final point If you're going to pick a middle ground, yes, have the baby faces fight with honor by cashing it in with notice. And if you're going to have a baby face come out and tease cashing in, don't leave them open to Corey Graves making one good point after another about how much Tiffany just didn't make up her

55:41 mind quick enough. On the positive side, Tiffany landing her moonsault before deciding to cash in, I actually thought was a nice touch because she was like, Before I cash in, let me make sure the champ is still going to be down. And so I'm going to go to a move because if she moved out of the way of the moonsault, then, okay, I'm not going to cash in because that didn't work. But it did. So she was going to. And then, of course, other shenanigans happened.

56:08 Yeah.

56:09 And now I do think so. I don't think there's any excuse for Penta not to announce his cash in ahead of time and schedule a match wherever he wants it to be. I can understand storyline wise why it's important for Tiffany to cash in at an opportunistic moment. It needs to be, to me, I won't settle for anything less. It needs to be a moment where Liv and Chelsea are both in the ring at the same time where you don't know who she's going to cash in on. And to me, I would have her cash in on Liv and beat Liv because that would throw everybody off and it would really cement the green Stratton relationship that they can just milk for another year if they wanted to. Um, With the only downside being Tiffany

56:49 is a more natural heel. But I think that would be the right way to go for a better story. And I'm just hoping they do that.

56:58 When she slid into the ring today, I thought for sure she was going to turn on Chelsea and cash in on Chelsea. For them to repeat the beat that they've been repeating with Tiffany for so long. Fundamentally, I don't get the money in the bank. contract thing because my spider sense warns me of danger. So it's not really a thing that, that comes across my daily life, but I don't like the whole thing in general because you see people get beat down and the ref normally, when a match is starts, they, if somebody has been beat down beforehand, the ref will lean in and check and say, Hey, are you, are you good to go?

57:35 And the, the strong will baby face will be like, yes, I'm, I'm good. Let's go ring the bell. And then they have the match, but with the money in the bank, someone will be lying flat down unconscious. And, and in this case, you know, she hits the moonsault as Wade, Wade mentioned. And like the, the person is knocked out and then they get, they, they cash, they cash the money in the bank. It just makes like, what sort of sporting event is it when you are having a match against somebody lying unconscious on the ground feels, feels like a ridiculous on the face of it.

58:08 It's like, if you were to win the NBA cup, And that allowed you to do a run-in in the NBA finals with like two minutes left in the clock and, and, um, you know, knock the, one of the teams out of the match and then just go. And if you score a three point shot, you win the title. Like the NBA championship would mean nothing anymore. And I think, and I think pro wrestling, I think pro wrestling promoters are, you know, fast and loose with the, the, the idea. Well, since we have creative control and nobody takes what we do seriously, cause they know it's a show. Let's take liberties that undercut, you know, the foundation of being able to tell an effective story, which is it's really prestigious

58:46 to hold the world title and you need to beat the champion to get it. They even, as I pointed out with Rich on Tuesday, they even had the champion's advantage. It's so important for the champ, someone who's on a list of former world champions or a current champion. It's so important for that to have prestige that we can never have someone win a title simply because of a technicality like a DQ or a countout. The only way to become champion is pinfall or submission.

59:08 But now.

59:10 well, if you have a briefcase, you can pin a champion who's knocked out by other people in an overall situation. It's I mean, I would rescind it. I know it's popular. They make money. It fills TV time. But and I went way in detail on this on everything. But like the crowd pops are not indicative that it's good for that.

59:27 I think too many wrestlers and promoters think a crowd pop means it's a good thing. And it's not. I mean, you know, a kid wanting candy for dinner doesn't mean it's a good thing. It's just that's just fans wanting candy instead of something, a more substance that protects the structure of what makes everything else work.

59:42 I will say, I think that they could make tweaks. Like, look, they're addicted to it, right? Like, they've had iconic moments that they tell us about over and over again involving the briefcase. They're not going to do away with it. So if they're going to keep it, then I would just like it if they added a couple of things. Like, you know, when somebody joins a match in progress, a triple threat, like, that's i i'm i'm more on board for that than i am for somebody being unconscious on the ground i feel like there has to be some sort of waking up or like testing that the person is at least athletically ready to compete anyway not not to go too far on this but i am i am also tired of the money in the bank though

1:00:28 i do enjoy those those big moments those that you that that they talk about and others like they're happy when somebody comes out and you don't expect it. And it's, it, it's a fair type situation or it's a heel reaching that next level. I do appreciate it, but I think obviously it's been overused and could stand to be tightened up a little bit. And yeah, the false cash-ins are just getting crazy already.

1:00:53 Yeah.

1:00:55 Sadler version three in the chat says the false cash-ins are bad enough, but they are going to, are they really going to do it twice every week?

1:01:00 Yes, they are. Because they've done it before.

1:01:03 Yeah, yeah.

1:01:06 Hey, everyone.

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1:02:08 Along these lines, real quick, Derek Mitchell says, I enjoyed our video as a babyface telling John Cena in 2006 who's going to cash in at ECW One Night Stand at Hammerstein Ballroom. Goodfellas says, I thought Tiff was going to hit Chelsea tonight with a briefcase. I was wrong. I think they knew that some people would think that.

1:02:24 I mean, I think they were cognizant of that moment of drama. Derek Mitchell says, thank goodness, money. The bank wasn't a concept in the NWA in 1989. Can you imagine Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat going to a 60-minute draw and then Sting or Great Muda running down with a briefcase?

1:02:39 Yeah.

1:02:40 I mean, they're chipping away at what that world title means. I don't think it crosses their mind that anymore that that's a thing that they should be concerned about but i'm gonna throw it out there and uh.

1:02:53 Yeah so yeah i would really want to see the follow-ups of like here's all the people that cashed in and here's how long their title reign lasted and how many successful defenses they had because i bet there's not many that led to much.

1:03:05 It'd be i mean this is you know they'd say come on we don't want to be this uh pedantic and meticulous and all that but what they could say is If you cash in the money in the bank briefcase on the champion and people are going to roll their eyes like this is way too convoluted, Wade. But I would be happier with it because I would take convoluted over the nonsense of what they do. If you cash in money in the bank and pin the champion, then that means you have you go into the next match and you have to and you have to win.

1:03:40 Like it's a day early for trick or treaters and you have to beat the champion to be, but you get a title shot.

1:03:46 Right, right, right.

1:03:48 I tell you, dogs are the absolute worst. When you're swinging around, they run after you. Even though you're completely out of reach, they think they can reach you. It's ridiculous.

1:03:57 I get it. So Spidey, do you mind if I call you Spidey?

1:04:00 No, I don't.

1:04:01 Everybody does.

1:04:02 Okay, Spidey. So you've relocated to Toronto area? Is that where you're at now?

1:04:09 I can't comment on that, Eric. I know it's part of the whole mask anonymity thing.

1:04:14 I'm really sorry. But I got to ask. sure it's but it gotta be a big night for you right.

1:04:22 Oh the biggest all the freaks do you ever.

1:04:25 Get that inkling to just you know your web shooters bam you grab somebody's candy from far away just snag it for yourself take it from a little kid.

1:04:33 Jeez eric No, I don't get that inkling. I'm, I'm a, I'm a, what we call in the business, a baby face.

1:04:40 I don't do that.

1:04:42 I don't do that sort of thing. In fact, I, I wrestled once true story, this guy bone saw McGraw. And I tell you, if somebody had come up with a briefcase at that time, I would have lost my mind, just lost it. Unless it was a briefcase full of money for me, I would have lost it.

1:04:59 What's your stance on those little Mary Jane candies. Do you remember those horrible little things? I don't know what those.

1:05:06 Are, but I don't, I like Mary Jane, but I don't know.

1:05:11 He's bound to know what those awful little candies are in the chat.

1:05:14 Yeah. Um, I often, hold on. The dogs interrupted me and threw me off when I was coming up with my solution to money in the bank. I want to just clarify my point now that whatever's going on outside of subsided. Um, if you cash in money to make successful in the champion, then, uh, You don't actually officially and you are the champion. You get the belt. This is where you have to work through the workshop, the details here, but you are not in the record book as a champion until you have your first successful standard title defense that just throw that out there. So at least if you're listed as a champion, there's an asterisk next to your name if you never successfully defended. Like there has to be a defense. Just add some layer

1:05:54 that just pays lip service to the notion that they care that someone who's listed as a champion that didn't win by cashing in on a knocked out champion who got beat up by 17 people and hit over the head with three clubs. And then they just, their next match they lose. But they're a former champion. Like that's the part where I just like figure some way out or acknowledge that that's farcical. As for Eric, what U.S.

1:06:18 alleged Spider-Man, I'm still not convinced, but I don't know. He could he could on Halloween, if he sees some kids bully some smaller kids and steal their candy since he says he's a baby face, then use your web and you steal the bag from them and give it back to the kid. Like to me, that would be a good time to show your powers.

1:06:38 I just bring all– any candy. People give me candy because I help them. I just bring it to the children's hospital because I'm a good guy. And so that's how I handle that. I will say, Wade, when you're talking about this cash in, it made me think of Damien Priest who got some attention tonight because he goes around saying that he's El Campeon and that he's a champion.

1:07:04 He was a champion, but he got– his championship for, by cashing in on, you know, on, on Drew McIntyre at, at, at WrestleMania and yes, he definitely defended it. But I don't like, like when he was sort of positioning himself as, oh, I was.

1:07:23 A great champion. I'm sort of thinking, were you though?

1:07:27 Like you were the guy who, you know, who cashed it. I feel like that was the most heelish thing he did because everything else about his presentation, even his argument with Fraxium, he just comes across as regular Damien Priest in a bad mood. Like, really, like, he doesn't come across as super heelish. And now he didn't do that big beatdown of R-Truth, and it kind of got out that, in fact, he was trying to help end that match and end that segment because R-Truth was actually hurt. So, again, good guy Damian Priest seems pretty nice. So I feel like my expectation up until that Praxium segment was that Damian Priest was going to cost trick his match tonight because there was a scene– last week on SmackDown where,

1:08:14 you know, trick is coming out of all this is office and priest is that they show priest and he looks pissed because of course he's not getting an opportunity. I thought, okay, this is it. It's going to be trick and, and, uh, and priest and he's going to cost him his match. But, but then no, it looks like he's, he's stuck with Fraxium.

1:08:35 No offense, Fraxium.

1:08:37 Um, and so i feel like they're kind of spinning their wheels with priest but he did he really is not striking me as any sort of formidable heel so far how are you both feeling about his trajectory i thought it.

1:08:49 Was good tonight um a little more believable as as a as a heel or the parlance of the weekend a villain Eric?

1:08:58 I thought he– I'm kind of on Spidey's side on this one where I thought that he came across just telling the truth tonight. Like, hey– I like truth. I liked our truth. And look what I did to him. What do you think I'm going to do to you two when I don't like you? To me, that came across kind of like a baby face. But and also, well.

1:09:17 You have to get past. He beat up truth. A good, good, loyal friend of his.

1:09:23 But they even admitted that he didn't really– he's like truth got himself injured.

1:09:27 Well, that's true.

1:09:28 And then they said, oh, you went to get a chair. What were you trying to do? Put him in a hospital? They were really trying to oversell him holding a chair, but he didn't do anything with the chair.

1:09:38 So– Yeah.

1:09:39 It's tough. They got to adjust to that.

1:09:41 Anyway, Eric– I actually kind of felt like Fraxium came across more heelish to me tonight because they were bickering with each other. It wasn't a very friendly way to do it either. They were just kind of snappy with each other.

1:09:54 I hope that they have a heel plan for Damien Priest. I think that he was very cold as a baby face. And maybe the, you know, he admitted he, I was spinning my wheels with our truth. So hopefully he finds a way out of it. Gentlemen, I'm going to have to let you go. I've got a, I've got some like crimes to fight. Um, I want to stay for the whole show, but I'm not able, hopefully Darrell can, can step in and, and, and, and do me proud.

1:10:25 So I will leave you both have a happy Halloween. Thank you so much.

1:10:31 Uh, thank you. Not Crofton. But I'm still not convinced you're the real Spider-Man either. I've just got to say.

1:10:38 I mean, there's a lot of us, Wade.

1:10:40 Spider-Verse, look it up.

1:10:42 I lived through, you know, the whole imposter sting in the 90s. You know, Sin Cara, we still don't know who the real Sin Cara is. La Parca, come on. That's not the same guy from the 90s, Booker T. All right. Anyway, thanks. Happy Halloween. A couple other comments on this. Sadler says, I wish they'd get rid of this Bryce Cashin, but I grew Spidey. They never will.

1:11:06 It's such an easy crowd pop. And that is my like late October grr about wrestling. It's like, stop bookers and wrestlers. Stop going for the pop. Sami Zayn mentioned it in his interview. I learned, I learned somewhere along the way that getting a pop doesn't mean you're over. Getting an emotional, immersive fan response to your character in the course of trying to achieve your goal and either achieving it for cheers or not achieving it for booze is much better than a pop. And I say the ephemeral pop. It doesn't draw money. It's just a little moment.

1:11:46 And the sooner wrestling promotions move away from that and lean a little bit more into the... You're not going to go back to presenting wrestling as like this pure sport, you know, from the 1970s, you know, whatever. I mean, like you have to, there's going to be creative liberty, of course, but that creative, the creative liberty of being a little more outlandish and injecting comedy and, and even some gimmicks here and there, it works better when there's that, that foundation that looks like it's being protected and it's not.

1:12:18 Paul Dover-Pete says, I don't mind the Money in the Bank concept and how it works, but they fired a bunch of writers who need to come up with more creative storylines to tell than what they're doing now. And then finally, Derek Mitchell says, my opinion of the best cash-in was Rob Van Dam beating John Cena at ECW One Night Stand, Dolph Ziggler beating Alberto Del Rio for the world title, and Seth Rollins winning the WWE title at WrestleMania 31. Eric, you want to comment on any of that?

1:12:40 Well, and I will point out to the list that we just put up there of the three that were the top three by him, there are three very different ways to cash in. You know, none of those are similar. So, and that speaks volumes. I just think that, and we could, attribute this to all pro wrestling storytelling, they don't even scratch the surface of what they could accomplish if they really dug in and came up with more in-depth stories.

1:13:04 They recycle the same stuff over and over and over again. And you can even apply that to inside the ring for wrestlers that are inside the ring. Obviously, you have to be safe and know what you're doing. But you can't convince me that you can go 15 minutes in a match and you know nothing's gonna be resolved until the last two minutes and there's certain moves that never win a match. That's a whole tangent. They could do so much more with the time that they have. And sometimes I think they don't value the time that they have where they could accomplish so much more and they just don't. And money in the bank is a perfect example of that. They treat money in the bank, the cash in, the same one or two ways every single

1:13:46 year now, whether it's the tease of the cash in and then inevitably somebody does when someone's down or they cash in the same night that they win it. Or there's not even that many more than that. And they treat the cash-in itself as the pinnacle of that story. They generally don't have a story to tell after that.

1:14:06 And to me, that shows they're not building to anything but a cheap pop.

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1:14:40 And after that, you can become a VIP member using your Apple account. It's that easy. Enjoy a streamlined listening experience to our free shows and unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app. So with all these layers, like, don't do it. Or if you're going to do it, add variety. And if you're not going to add variety, but you're going to do the same thing, at least execute it better. There's this wish list. Don't have the baby face. And Corey Graves is super critical of Tiffany. She doesn't need to get to it.

1:15:21 My God.

1:15:22 She's not going to succeed at cashing in if she's having it on Han. So I think part of what draws attention to the preposterousness of this as a officially sanctioned way to add your name to the prestigious list of world champions is the fact that it's very tropey and cliche and repetitive and how they tease it. Um, because they are rationalizing what they do based on a crowd popping for it. And that crowd pops are overrated without context crowd pops in the course of telling a story in a ring with a, with a, you know, some semblance of competence to the management and the refereeing and an acknowledgement that there's a governing body trying to make sure that there's merit to who wins. If you

1:16:09 have that, then straying from it feels, it's more fun to, you know, no, I mean, it's more fun to, you know, shoot spitballs at a classmate when the teacher, you know, when you're in school than it is or on the bus than it is like just, you know, when you're hanging out with them, like, cause you're getting away with something.

1:16:28 You know, you want to have that sense you're getting away with something. But anyway, it's just so there's all kinds of there's all kinds of room for improvement. But I think let's not lose sight of the fact that varying it doesn't change the the the core problem with it, which it creates a farce out of the idea of of the merit behind being champion. And I think that is a really, really big price to pay when you can get cheap, meaningless pops out of mid card stuff and comedy that will, you know, check that box for fans who are looking to just pop for something that's sort of tropey, but Hey, I was there for it.

1:17:02 And I think there should be a, an area that's protected. Roman Reigns would like be my, I shouldn't say when part of Dan house and skip, but it probably wouldn't be. It's like, no, that's, that's not what my character does. Like, I think there should be a steward of world title prestige who has veto power over bad ideas, but we're, we're deep down that road. Anyway, point made.

1:17:20 Yep.

1:17:21 I agree. Yep.

1:17:22 All right, let's bring Darrell into the conversation. Darrell, good to see you here on a Friday night. What do you have to add to our conversation on SmackDown?

1:17:32 Yes, yes. How y'all doing tonight, Wade and Eric?

1:17:36 Good.

1:17:36 I'm intimidated by how close you are to the camera. Your head is four times the size of ours. I don't know if I can continue with the lens that close.

1:17:48 How you doing, Darrell?

1:17:50 But second, second of all, you're getting closer to have to shave. Cause you got that mic rustling against your, your whiskers again.

1:17:56 I know, I know, I know, I know it's Halloween, man. I'm just trying to be spooky. So anyway, I, um, but, I will say this. I enjoy what y'all talk about. I enjoy Spidey on and on bringing up some good points.

1:18:12 I will say this.

1:18:13 The point I want to bring up tonight is I think the best view, because the best story, I think SmackDown is the show.

1:18:20 For stories and great stories.

1:18:23 And the best story I seen tonight was just out of a video segment. And that was between CM Punk and KO. And if you're somebody who haven't watched the show in a few weeks or haven't watched in a month, That video showed you everything that you need to see, why those guys are feuding, why they having that match next week, why it's needed and everything, and why it's important as well. And that's something I enjoy. And that feud right there to me made me feel like that adds KO into CM Punk's top three feuds of all time with John Cena being one, Drew being two, and I got KO as number three. And I enjoyed that whole thing that they did tonight. And I think they did a wonderful thing by doing those video, did that

1:19:15 video tonight.

1:19:17 I don't miss much when I do these shows, but I miss some of that video. And so I want to go back and watch it because I know it's getting praised. So Eric, I'll lean on you to talk about it. Although what I did see of it, I liked, but I want to see that.

1:19:28 I mean, I watched it too. I thought it also, I don't know if I can say it any better than Darrell did it. they really told the story very well. Anytime they add music to something and get their production team behind something, it always does a great job to the point that it makes me wonder why they don't do it even more often. I feel like they could do that for so many more matches. It makes me wonder if, is it because the two men that are a part of this have a lot of say and they can ask for these things, or is it a production decision because these are main eventers? I don't know, but it just It really did paint the picture of this entire rivalry for years. And it did it within like a, what, 30-second time frame? It didn't even take

1:20:06 that long. I just thought it was great.

1:20:10 They announced the match takes place next Friday on SmackDown. They'll be taping it Monday after Raw, because Raw starts early. Then they tape SmackDown. Then they make their trip, in all likelihood, but not for sure, to Saudi Arabia.

1:20:20 Yep.

1:20:23 Yep.

1:20:24 Yeah.

1:20:26 Also tonight, I like what Cody did. Starting the show.

1:20:30 Getting straight to the point.

1:20:33 Not going through the whole spiel that he usually go to. Not asking us what do we want to talk about. Showing that aggressive side. Showing that focused side. Showing that side that you need.

1:20:47 And not always be like.

1:20:50 The typical, I call it Vince McMahon way, how he used to have baby faces.

1:20:55 Come out and do all that ha-ha type.

1:20:57 Of stuff when you in a real heated feud with somebody that you're not supposed to like and you shouldn't be joking around about or anything like that.

1:21:07 And I liked it.

1:21:08 Because it's also telling the story of the evolution of Cody Rhodes and the evolution that we're seeing off of this feud with Randy. I know Randy ain't playing the heel, which we would like him to play. I know you speak of that on Wade and stuff like that. I know they can't get Randy to do that. But we're seeing, even though that Randy's not doing that, we're seeing the evolution of Cody and his character. And where is it supposed to go to next? And to judge this feud all the way and this story all the way, we have to wait till the ending. And I want to see what the ending does when it comes to Ducote and Punning, how he responds after he punts him. And I want to see the show after that. If he

1:21:53 punts him, I want to see what he says on that show and does he snaps finally. And tonight was just perfect for it.

1:22:02 I like the segment. I wish Cody had incorporated into the promo. What Randy's preoccupation has been in his promos, which is you can't pull the trigger. You won't do it. And I wish Cody leaned on like that promo could have been two weeks ago. Like, I don't think it incorporated enough. What we've seen the last couple of weeks.

1:22:20 I don't think it incorporated, um, I showed that I am willing to do this. And Randy, I know that you're scared. I know that's why you're not here this week or something along those lines. It just, it, it was a good Cody Rhodes promo, but it felt a little more generic than I think the context of the moment called for. It was just, you know, I'm sorry what I'm going to do to you. The last man standing match, you know, is, is what was his word?

1:22:51 It's barbaric. And so he put over the gimmick match and then he said, Randy, I'm sorry that I'm going to maim your face. And it seemed he wanted to show his face being maimed, but I wanted a little bit more about Cody going like, you know, Randy, the Cody of a year ago, five years ago, maybe you're right.

1:23:07 But this Cody, you better look me in the eye and understand your, your, your assumption that I won't cross a certain line is going to be proven wrong. And you're going to look like this when I'm done with you. Like I, I would like a little bit more of that in the promo. That'd be my, my critique, I don't think it's nitpicky. I think this feud has been built around that. And suddenly kind of the go home promo doesn't talk about it much or at all. It just, it's sort of implied, but not overtly said. So to me, that was just something that seemed like it was really missing.

1:23:37 Eric.

1:23:38 Yeah.

1:23:38 I think it's ironic that when Orton's not around, Cody gets unequivocally cheered. He does.

1:23:43 There was not boot at all.

1:23:45 I think it may have been just be where they are. To me, the most jarring part of the entire thing was showing that picture of him when he got his, face bashed in and looking like Gollum from Lord of the Rings. It was just kind of jarring.

1:23:57 Tom York.

1:23:58 Sorry.

1:23:59 Yes. Yes. Um, but I thought it was also notable that Cody made a point to say at the end that whoever wins that last man standing match should be the number one contender. So it makes me wonder where they're going from there too.

1:24:13 Cause I know.

1:24:13 Yeah.

1:24:13 That's newsworthy.

1:24:15 Yeah. Yeah.

1:24:15 Do we see Cody, Cody going back against Sammy already? Is that, or is that what we're going for? That doesn't feel fresh anymore to me. So I'm curious what they're doing now.

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1:25:20 I saw you nodding a little bit. Did you agree with me that this that having Cody talk a little bit more about Randy saying you don't you won't punt kick, you don't have it in you should have been a little more incorporated into this?

1:25:34 I would have liked it. And yes, I do agree with you. But I'm a challenge on something. And I just want to hear what your thoughts is when I say this. I think if he would have said that, that would have led people to think a different way or have people think that maybe he's going here or he's going to be some type of way and stuff.

1:25:52 Even with how Eric brought up, how he brought up should be the number one contender. He just, that's something that Cody said before in previous promos.

1:26:02 That's something that he wouldn't do. He's just going to earn his spot.

1:26:05 He's not going to call forth and he ain't going to skip a line and stuff like that. And I think if he would have brought up that even more, that would have led people to maybe think that he turned the hill and he just want to keep people on the edge and not knowing what he's going to do and keep them thinking that he might not. Do you think that's something they could have been thinking about?

1:26:26 I don't rule that out. I think it's possible Cody was cognizant of leaving it out and had a reason for not leaning in on it. I think you could incorporate it in a different way than I proposed, which is Cody saying, Randy, you think the only way that I can beat you or maim you is this one thing that you think i can't do maybe i can maybe i can't maybe you'll find out but i know there's a lot in my arsenal um and you're trying to get me you're trying to get me preoccupied with one move that you don't think i will cross that one line you don't think i'll cross but there's a lot of lines that i got in my head that i might cross on at crown jewel like there's ways to i don't think randy has said cody's a heel

1:27:06 if he does this move and i unleash anything where he's held back. However, that's why I'm like, sometimes I say for illustrative purposes, Cody could have said this, but it doesn't have to be exactly that. It's just, it should have been more, it's been what this whole feud has been about. They've been trying to justify it through that.

1:27:29 I would have had some acknowledgement of it, but if they are going, wait, Cody, if you say it that way, maybe people think you're turning heel. We don't want people thinking that or whatever. If they think that's at risk, then they can augment it. But Like I said, that Cody promo could have been done months ago before a match with Randy, before the whole theme came up. So I could also imagine just the writers and Cody going, oh yeah, we should have brought that up. Maybe we can sneak that in next week. I could imagine them just going, yeah, we got so preoccupied with setting up.

1:28:00 I'm going to do to your face what you did to mine. And we want to get this photo on the screen. They kind of lost sight of things too. Adderall, what else?

1:28:08 I agree with you, but I will also say this. It's also kind of hard to him.

1:28:13 Always.

1:28:13 They always having people coming out there and they have to talk to themselves.

1:28:17 That's how I see it. When you don't have your.

1:28:19 Opponent there for a lot of weeks and you have to do the hard work, you have to do the building up. That's the contrast to what we seen with the KO and punk. Every time they was there, they were there together. So you had a little back and forth interaction. And I understand what you're saying, Wade, and I.

1:28:39 Agree with you.

1:28:40 But how better would it have been if that was Randy coming out there and stating that, I still don't believe you, Cody. I don't believe you're going to do that. I don't believe you're going to do none of this. And we're going to see you on Saturday. And then you allow Cody to get the last word. And then he cut that Babyface promo or whatever promo at the end.

1:29:02 And he emphasized that off of what Randy said and then Randy challenging him.

1:29:08 I think that would have been better. But it's so hard to do that.

1:29:12 And you're limited to a fact when you have to talk to yourself and not having your opponent there and you're doing all the legwork.

1:29:22 Are you mutable?

1:29:25 Crofton in the chat. Feel free to call in, Crofton. We miss you this week. Says, Cody has just done one too many stand in the middle of the ring and speak to the camera wordplay promos for me. On its own, it was good, but I'm tired of them. And Powder repeats, yes, Cody fatigue is spreading. Goodfellas says, what are we connecting with? Will Cody become very evil?

1:29:44 Not very nice. We're interested if he becomes a bad guy for punting someone who has who has taken diabolical measures to beat him up. I just don't think it's fair or necessarily true that fans will think it's a heel turn for Cody to do the move that Randy Orton's trying to goad him into doing. I just think fans.

1:30:00 I think we've got... Yeah, we've gotten to a point now where that if he doesn't do it, it's worse. It's worse for him. It makes him look like he's weak. And I've always thought it was kind of silly that Why are we going to think he's so evil for using a move that's not even illegal? It's not a banned move like we've talked about. Ray Phoenix does it better every match. It's the only reason he even works here is because Orton has established it as a move that he's used against legends to hurt them. And because of what he actually did to Cody that we saw in the picture today. That's the only reason any of this even works.

1:30:32 Yep.

1:30:34 Art Drell, anything else for us?

1:30:36 Okay, another thing would be a story that I'm thinking they need to start speeding up before people start getting tired of all the parts.

1:30:46 And we talked about this in the chat earlier.

1:30:48 But I'm thinking we're going to get like a three-way in some type of ways with the women's tag team title and the U.S.

1:30:55 Title.

1:30:56 I think we're going to get a J, maybe J, Charlotte, Jason Jane match with another three-way of... B-Fab, B-Jim versus Alexa Bliss and Paxley versus the other people.

1:31:14 From Fatal Attraction.

1:31:17 And.

1:31:18 I wish they would speed this up a little bit, get more into it, let them talk about a little bit more what they want, what they're looking for, give them some type of focus where they're heading on to something. I think those titles would help focus that up because you can tell that that's what they're trying to do with the backstage segment where you had Fatal Attraction come up on JDM tonight. You had the match with Paxley and all that. And yes, we ain't seen no Charlotte.

1:31:46 So they trying to build up Charlotte as the big baby face come and help her friends overcome these two groups that's coming at them on both sides and stuff like that. But I just wish that they would tell a better story, allow them to talk about the issues and what they want and having a goal. That's one thing that WWE kind of don't get with a lot and let people have goals and state their goals and what they want to do. And I think that's something that they need to do because right now the story is building up quite nice on how they're doing it.

1:32:21 It's just building up at a snail pace.

1:32:24 Eric, what do you think?

1:32:26 Yeah, I agree. I thought tonight's match felt very fillery. Like I didn't think there was, I mean, it was like a 10 minute match that felt like it needed to be, it nearly needed to be five. It was nice to see Paxley get more time in the ring to get exposed to the main roster audience. But yeah, it's whatever they're doing with this, they're dragging it too much for my liking.

1:32:47 Yeah.

1:32:48 Yeah.

1:32:48 I don't have too much to say, but yeah, I agree. It was just sort of there. I don't, I don't know who we're invested in and why, but yeah, it felt like it was kind of a fillery, as Eric coined, said in a good word. What else, Dural?

1:33:10 And my last thing, and I want to talk about something that y'all brought up earlier, and with the Sami Zayn and maybe a bloodline type of thing. I like what Candice did and that look that she gave Sammy. I want her to continue doing stuff like that. I want her to continue to act like that. And I wouldn't mind what Eric said. I wouldn't mind if they had a Ricky Sings to that and stuff like that.

1:33:31 Because you can see Sammy trying to hype himself up like a Roman. when you see him next to Roman and how he handled his self by Roman, you can tell he's trying to do it in a way that Roman did it, but in his own manipulative type of way, his swarmy type of way is building up all these different views and things that he got set up. But I would love to see them build up a bloodline just so it could just, um, diminished by, hey, you get a breakout from Johnny Gargano and Candice from turning on them and stuff like that. And let's see what Sami can do and how you can keep running with this story and layers after layers. I hope that we can see that. And if it's not a Ricky Saints, who on SmackDown, only on SmackDown, no call-ups, no nothing

1:34:28 like that, Who else would you add to that to make into a bloodline type of situation? Because in actuality, you really would have two more spots open. So who would you add? If it would be one person or would it be two? And if it's two, who would be the two if it's not one of them Ricky Saints?

1:34:48 Hmm. Eric, any ideas?

1:34:50 I hadn't thought beyond Saints yet. Not the gingerbread man. I wouldn't do that. Wouldn't do Dan Housen. I'd really have to take a look at the SmackDown roster right now because I don't even remember who's missing. To me, it's tricky because you don't want to add a Damian Priest because he's too big and he has too much clout for this kind of group. He would almost overshadow Sammy in a lot of ways. I want somebody that I can envision... sammy echoing some of the uso stuff uh giving gargano a shirt that says you're a good guy you get to wear this shirt now you're one of the good guys and that's kind of i don't even know if that would be his group and the good guy seems a little ridiculous but um.

1:35:29 That's that could be a feature not a flaw but yeah yeah i could see him making it work um grayson waller waller I think he's a little different than you're describing, but yeah, I.

1:35:40 Think he's too smarmy and we take a little bit away from Sammy's the way he delivers things. Again, I would really have to think about it, but I'll get back to you. I don't know. Yeah. I, all I had was saints in my mind.

1:35:53 All right, Jarrell. Thank you.

1:35:58 Yes, sir. Wait. Yes, sir.

1:36:00 You have a good weekend.

1:36:02 All right.

1:36:02 Happy Halloween, bro.

1:36:04 Yep.

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1:36:45 VIP-exclusive podcasts that run throughout the week every week. All right, cool. Let's see. Speaking of Ricky Saint, just because we brought him up, what did you think of his match against Frank Phoenix?

1:36:57 I thought he had a good night in the ring. I thought that was maybe his best performance. Him and Trick both stood out to me tonight as having good performances in the ring. It does concern me of where is Saints going now, though, because Cole made a point to say during the match, you know, this is probably Saints' last chance at this title. So it kind of made me think Saints was going to win the title.

1:37:19 And when he doesn't, that makes me think, okay, do they really have no plans in mind for him? Is he going somewhere else? Is he moving to Raw?

1:37:26 Yeah, losing clean to Phoenix for a AAA Cruiserweight title doesn't seem to signal he's going to get elevated to a major faction. He hasn't been a staple of television. They didn't give him promo time. They didn't give him a ring entrance. I don't think he's going to get over without a ring entrance and promo time. He's certainly not going to maximize that. But I think tonight's performance in the ring is going to be encouraging. As long as he didn't get hurt, the refs seemed concerned after the Mexican Muscle Buster that he might have been hurt. Um, and so, you know, if there's concern about Ricky getting hurt or being concussed or, or, or, or botching moves or something like that, I mean, management can kind of

1:38:06 microanalyze and go, well, that, that, that might be a reason not to push anybody. And if they think that about saints being knocked out, but the ref then moved away from it, no doctors came in. So I think it was fine. I think it was more just precautionary, but the move looked good. I mean, the Mexican muscle buster looks really good and saints sold it well. So anyway, back on point, I think there's more for saints. Saints can mean more if they seem like they get behind him.

1:38:31 But now the conundrum is he just lost clean in a match that he had to win or he gets defeated. What's beneath the AAA Cruiserweight division?

1:38:41 Yeah, they need to either give him a break for a month or two before bringing him back with something else or immediately throw him into something different. so that you kind of forget about what just happened. I mean, you know where I stand. I'd put him with Sammy and have him looking for somebody. I mean, we talk about how this is not the ideal place to have you go into a group, but with the kind of group I'm talking about, it's a little different. And the last guy that joined it was laying on a crate for months. So I don't know if there's a bar to climb here. You can just kind of do whatever.

1:39:11 Yeah, I think Ricky being more of an alpha, not a follower in the way he's portrayed on TV, but with somebody else. even if just one other person would help his act. And then as a heel, he can have somebody interfering on his behalf. And it could just be somebody who's, you know, just a heavy, just somebody who's bigger. You know, a Diesel to Shawn Michaels, a big Bubba Rogers to the Benet Express, you know, big cast to Enzo, just something that adds a little something to the act and also gives him an excuse to win within the way WWE typically books. In the chat, JTGWTR says Ricky Saints is undersized by WWE standards. He's not really as good in the ring as Sami Zayn or Kevin Owens, and his promos come across as way

1:39:57 too whiny. Yeah, but WWE's supposed to be able to take somebody who has Saints natural, you know, that thing that I saw on NWA Power, who walked out to that podium and he did his kind of old school territorial promo. They're supposed to have the machinery and the polishers in production to go, Ricky, you got something here.

1:40:19 Let's not lean in as hard on this. Let's go. You know, I just, I think there's something coachable about what he has that they haven't coached to broaden and amplify what worked in more soundbites in other areas. And I don't think that they should, you know, give up on that or neglect it. However, Pete said, Ricky with a big work with a big works. He worked with big bill and AW. There we are.

1:40:45 Yep.

1:40:45 And they are both in WWE now. I think Bill's, you know, Going to end up with what? Ethan Page and Rusev, it's rumored. Rusev said he didn't know about that in an interview. Talked about that in the Wade Keller News Hotline this week. Goodfellas says, agree, Ricky's presence looks very average. He's a fit person.

1:41:01 In the ring.

1:41:02 You got to give him the mic. Indeed. There was a comment earlier, if I can find it.

1:41:10 Oh, yeah.

1:41:10 Goodfellas said, If the HBK reports are true of him taking over second chair after Mania, I hope he can bring improvement. Triple H seems to color by the numbers. The majority of the times I talked about this a lot in the way color news updates this week. It's one of the things that's going around that isn't, there's more to it. And it's, I think the aggregators or the reports aren't taking into account the full scope of what's happening. So just point you to way color hotlines on the VIP side. If they're, If you want to be up on news and I put a hotline up, I'd recommend you listen to it because it's going to have adding context to reports. Often I'm inspired to do them when I hear something is widely being spread and

1:41:49 it's not quite framed or colored the right way. And you can look a little behind if you're not listening to those. I'll just say that. All right. We also had, well, I guess just Chelsea and Nikki, and we kind of already talked about that. Anything else, Eric, on your list of things to talk about?

1:42:05 I think we pretty much covered everything. I will say I thought of the one person that weeks ago I thought would have made a great fit in the group with Sammy, but he went and joined a different group, which was Carmelo Hayes.

1:42:18 Oh, yeah.

1:42:19 I think he would have been a good fit, but I think he's an even better fit in what he's doing right now. So I certainly think that was okay. I do think big Cass, big Bill, I think he'd be a decent fit too. But clearly he seems to be up to something else too. I think we covered everything actually.

1:42:34 Yeah.

1:42:35 Yeah, I do too. All right, very good. We will wrap up there. Thank you, everybody. Hope you all have a good Halloween, whatever you have planned. I think my son's going to have like 40 friends over for a big party. So it's going to be wild here. I hope my neighbors aren't listening. It's going to be limited parking around here tomorrow night. So that'll be wild. But if you haven't yet, go check out my report at PWTorch and Eric's report at PWTorch.com. are not only details on what happened on the show, but also analysis of those segments. And please, as always, like and comment below, like the show, comment below and subscribe to our channel if you're watching us on YouTube. And if you're listening

1:43:16 to the podcast side of things, please give us a five-star rating in your podcast app. Search Wade Keller, subscribe to the Red Logo and Blue Logo shows and give us five stars there. And then search PWTorch and subscribe to the PWTorch Daily Cast and give us five stars there. Yes, Eric.

1:43:31 I was saying if anybody wants to, I am still running my workplace comedy character championship on my mostly on Facebook, honestly, because that's where it's taken off. I mean, we're getting over a thousand votes in every matchup every day. And so it's really taken off. The sweet 16 is going to be set tomorrow. So if anybody wants to check it out, it's been really fun.

1:43:52 Give a little more detail on how people can find it.

1:43:54 Yeah, so if you want to go to my Facebook, Eric Corbridge, or you can go to Instagram, YouTube, or TikTok. I post two matchups every day. I have up until now. Once we get to the Sweet 16, it's going to be one matchup every morning at 9 a.m. You can vote for 24 hours. On Facebook, it's pretty easy. You just do a like for one or a heart for the other one. And then I just each... matchup produces a winner and advances, and we're going to crown the winner and the workplace comedy character champion sometime in November.

1:44:27 Love it. By the way, I'm glad I held on because Derek had a super chat earlier and I said I would get to it and I had not yet. He says, remember Dan Housen's Evil Detector? Oh, wait, wait, that's not the one. It was even earlier. Here we go. I watched last night's or last week's AW post show and I heard JB and Wade discussing not liking Booker's commentary.

1:44:48 We're not alone, Derek. Not alone. I'm equally not a fan of Corey being culturally inappropriate, saying sucka in a demonstrative way. Given the tension between Corey and Booker on air, I don't know. I have to ask around about their dynamic off air. And so it's kind of how people looked at like how Corey's calling, you know, big bill matches and it's like, or big cast matches. It's like, oh, is he treating him differently because of something in the past?

1:45:17 But I, I mean, my tendency is to think people are going to see that as a tribute, doing somebody's catchphrase, oh, yeah, like macho man, sucka, and not look at the appropriation aspect of it, Derek. But I very much appreciate you bringing it up to help us look at it maybe through a different lens. Derek, do you have anything to say on that?

1:45:44 I didn't see it, so I didn't see what was said and when. I assume this wasn't tonight, right? This was on NXT.

1:45:51 I know.

1:45:51 I think you did. I think he was talking about doing it during the trick match.

1:45:55 Oh, I just missed it. You know?

1:45:56 Yeah.

1:45:56 Cause there was, cause a bookend was a big theme in that match and trick is it does tributes to Booker.

1:46:01 Yeah. It's tough. I missed it. So I don't want to judge too harshly.

1:46:05 So yeah.

1:46:06 Yeah.

1:46:08 Uh, all right.

1:46:09 Oh, I will say to good fella, bad will. Number three is not out yet. We're working on it right now. Um, but if anybody enjoys bad, well, my workplace comedy, uh, comic book series, uh, go to badwillcomic.com. I did create and it's on there and a sitcom style opening credits video for Bad Will. It's pretty neat. It's like less than a minute long, but it has music to it and everything. So if you want to check it out, I thought it was really fun.

1:46:37 Awesome.

1:46:37 And Bad Will episodes one and two are still available as well.

1:46:41 Very good. Bad Will.

1:46:42 All right.

1:46:43 Thanks, Eric. Always great to control this video.

1:46:45 Thanks, Wade.

1:46:46 Yep.

1:46:46 Thanks, everybody.

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