5 YRS AGO DYNAMITE POST-SHOW: Comparing Cody's ring entrance to "Spinal Tap," Punk's prickly promo, is Miro more valuable than Omega, more

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1:35 Now, PW Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.

1:44 On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show, five years ago flashback, we jump back to the November 3rd, 2021 AEW Dynamite Post Show. I was joined by co-host Joel Donnell, currently of the All Elite Conversation Club over on the PWTorch Dailycast feed. Just an aside, if you're not subscribing to the PWTorch Dailycast, you're missing out on some great Torch-branded podcasts with different duos of co-hosts each day of the week with a different specific theme or topic.

2:09 So check it out.

2:10 Search PWTorch in your podcast app to subscribe for free. Or, and this is the case for all of our podcasts, get them all commercial-free along with VIP exclusives like the Wade Keller Hotline with daily news updates over the past seven days, backstage information, inside news, correcting media reports, along with just a rundown of the news of the day.

2:31 That's been going up daily for the past week. Also, signature shows, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables. PWTorchVIPinfo.com is how you get that. PWTorchVIPinfo.com is how you get information on getting those shows. You can get them through Patreon, which links up with Spotify, or use your Apple Podcast app, which syncs with CarPlay. or any other podcast app that you might use on your iOS device, or stream them right from our ad-free website that is mobile-friendly. Anyway, back to this Dynamite show. So Joel Donnell joined me. We had live callers, emails, and an on-site correspondent. We talked about Miro replacing Jon Moxley, Kenny Omega against Alan Angels, Cody Rhodes against Andrade, MGF and Darby Allin interacting, America's top

3:11 team against the Inner Circle, CM Punk's prickly promo, and more.

3:14 Prickly Punk.

3:16 Doesn't quite roll off the tongue, but it's an alliteration, so we'll do it. discussions include whether Miro or Kenny Omega are more valuable to AEW.

3:22 Interesting.

3:23 The strengths of MGF's promo, whether Punk still has to find his 2021 voice and purpose in AEW, Cody's ring entrance comparisons to Spinal Tap, ooh, and more.

3:34 I forgot about that one.

3:35 Anyway, fun show here, so check it out. It is our weekend Dynamite five years ago flashback for Sunday, November 1st, 2026. Joel, I don't often get asked who my favorite wrestler is. But when I do, I sometimes flip out a little bit, depending on the context. However, Miro has been one of my favorite wrestlers lately. In the ring, I think you can just do a breakdown of the story he tells, every facial expression, every body movement, every single, like, the length of time he sells, every move counts. It's just a, it's a cliche, but it's a clinic. It's a clinic on how to effectively wrestle a smart, believable, hard-hitting, compelling match.

4:25 And his promos have been off the charts lately. I was as hard as probably anybody on the whole video game shtick that just felt self-indulgent and he's not taking his job seriously. And, you know, Tony Khan needs to step in and say, hey, you know, you got to do more for us than, you know, lean into this whole video game thing. I just loved him lately. And he replaced Jon Moxley in the tournament. And now we're going to get Bryan Danielson against Miro in the finals of the Eliminator Tournament. I think it was a good move.

4:55 I don't know how long the story arc was for Miro if this didn't happen. But I think it's better to move that ahead quickly than it would be to rush, say, an Adam Cole or a CM Punk. Or I'm trying to think some other top name or Cody Rhodes, even like, just don't rush some other top name into it.

5:15 I like this move.

5:16 Um, I thought the match with Orange Cassidy tonight was, uh, just, you know, pitch perfect for, for what was called for in this situation.

5:23 And I like the stare down at the end. It feels big.

5:25 And obviously you don't want it to, and you know, the circumstances are such, and we'll talk about it, uh, with, with John Moxley. You don't wish for that to happen, but I thought this was a good, a good audible.

5:34 Uh, how about you?

5:36 Yeah, of course.

5:37 You know, first and foremost for Jon Moxley, I'm glad to see that, you know, he's going into treatment, that he's bettering himself. And I thought what CM Punk said felt really authentic and heartfelt. But for Miro, I mean, this is just like a natural fit for, you know, what has happening in his storyline. I mean, I love that he's talking about, God, are you taunting me by putting me into this?

5:59 Or is this a gift from you? You know, it's just, it's so great.

6:02 And then just him in the match, it's like, Orange Cassidy is a great wrestler that a lot of people like, and they want to see him win, but it's like, man, for the opportunity to see Miro against Bryan Danielson with the work that Danielson has been putting in as of late in AEW, that's going to be a great match between those two. Miro is just this phenomenal heel as of late where he doesn't have any go-away heat at all.

6:28 I want to see him continue to win, but I love him playing just the character that he has been. where you can't wait to see him get his comeuppance too. But I also want to see how far he can take it because at this point in time, I mean, we talk about what is the ceiling for Miro and he just seems like he is very quickly ascending to the point where I can very much see him being, you know, in contention to be another guy who's fighting for the championship actually at a pay-per-view.

6:56 I totally agree.

6:58 I think that Miro is a rising star this year. I, I, Don't know if he's like most improved in the traditional sense. It's usually reserved for wrestlers who, you know, had shown a ton of promise or showed promise, but never reached that level. And with him, it's been just kind of a roller coaster in AEW. But in terms of refining his act and elevating his act and putting himself in a position to have you say what you just said about him, where I would consider him, yes, an actual contender to hold the AEW world title for a length, a significant length of time, not just a, You know, passing the belt from one guy to another or a one or even just a three-month reign. And Frank, I'd just like to see that part of his legacy is

7:42 having been a world champion.

7:43 I'm not for gold watches just because you've been around forever.

7:46 The idea that, oh, you should get a world title run and, you know, your career is less if that doesn't happen.

7:51 I think Miro's earned that level.

7:53 I think he can deliver paper-miming events. And Bryan Danielson is going to be that example. I won't even call it a test because I doubt he will not. Saying it's a test means he could pass or fail. And I think Bryan Danielson and Miro is a lock. It's just a chance for him to display that he can work a top-level pay-per-view match where he should be considered for that. And yeah, he was great again tonight. The body language all the way to the end with the handshake offer from Danielson and the way he backed away.

8:22 But he backed away. in a way.

8:24 That didn't say I'm a coward or I don't trust you. He backed away in a way that said, I will destroy you if I don't back away now. We will save it for when it counts in the ring. Like that's the body language. And I just think he thinks that stuff through or his great instincts, either way it works.

8:42 Yeah, absolutely.

8:43 I mean, and this is, we've seen really good matches from Miro as of late, but I think that when people see Brian Danielson go up against Miro, I think that they're really going to start to see Miro as, at another level as someone who's not just, you know, this great character who's doing these great promos, but someone who can have these fantastic matches. And so I am eternally jealous that I will not be there for it, but I think that it's going to be just a great match.

9:09 Yeah, as for what prompted it, yeah, Jon Moxley, Tony Khan broke the news on social media.

9:15 Was it just yesterday or was it two days ago? It's almost a blur. I think it was just yesterday. Yeah, yesterday.

9:20 I thought it was today.

9:21 No, no, no.

9:22 It was yesterday that he broke the news. It feels like two days ago now. But yeah, it was yesterday, I think yesterday afternoon or evening, and he announced that John Moxley had checked himself into in-treatment for alcohol treatment and wished him well. I mean, there's been so many heartfelt comments on social media for this, and I think raising an awareness for people who are struggling And that help is out there. And, you know, Punk said he thought he was too macho, too cool, too much of a badass to ask for help, and he should have sooner. And, you know, Moxley did. I just, I do think some real good can come out of this. I don't know a ton on, you know, the Moxley situation and what built up to this and what.

10:08 The break point was.

10:09 And it's nobody's business, you know, but his and Rene's and whoever he chooses, whoever they choose to share it with. which might include Tony Khan because he's paying John a lot of money to be a central star. They can let him in on some of it, obviously, and he was probably consulted to a degree on this. But maybe not.

10:28 Maybe Rene just said, this is what's happening, and Tony's like, good. I don't need to know anything else. Just let us know when he's better, and we'll work it out. Just like, hey, man, Paige, go and be a dad and have a kid. It's like, take time off when you need it. And for Punk to say, yeah, there were people who were mad at me when I had to walk away, I still just can't believe there were people mad at him.

10:48 But I think some opinions.

10:51 Are so not worth repeating over and over again over the years because you should just dismiss them and move on because they're so– I mean it's not even being a troll.

11:00 It's just being a dick.

11:02 And I'm kind of tired of like even acknowledging that those people existed where it's like people criticizing Punk for his mental and physical health. walking away when he did i had no time for that argument and no time for people who said that and i'm just kind of at a point where i don't even want punk to acknowledge those people existed but that's his story to tell his way that's just my opinion on it i i just don't like giving credit to them i'm not a fan of you know i said the other day like i'm not a fan of podcasts that go well on twitter this this person said this it's like well first of all who are they and are they worth repeating and listening to um in this case though the real good comes from Moxley being this ultimate badass who, you know,

11:40 volunteered to go public through Tony Khan and Renee, his wife also posting.

11:45 I think that was posted today. Um, acknowledging it.

11:48 It just, it seems like anybody who out there who was like, Oh God, what will people think? Moxley can be that role model for people to say, you know, if, if with his millions, he's just, he's got, he just became a father. He's got this super smart, wonderful wife at home. Um, And he needed help. So who am I to walk away from help? Who am I to say the experts can't help me? And I think it could end up doing a lot of good. I'm not wishing this upon him. Obviously, it'd be better if this weren't an issue where he felt the need to go check himself in. But there will be a good result from it. And I think CM Punk drawing attention to it and kind of doubling down on that and letting people know it's okay to be vulnerable and ask for

12:31 help is a great thing right now. And I mean, with COVID... And all kinds of other things going on in the world. People might feel the need to get help, and this could prompt that.

12:42 Yeah, I think it sends a great signal to the people watching, the people who are fans of Jon Moxley for all the reasons that you said. And I also think it's great for the wrestlers as well because they've lived through such a long time in WWE specifically as a company where you just kept getting through it.

13:01 You know, regardless of what you were going through, what.

13:04 Injury was happening, what drug addiction you had, the expectation was that you just fought through it and you kept showing up from show to show. And of course, yeah, that leads to burnout. Someone like CM Punk who really had to step away. And I think it's a great signal to, you know, wrestlers at any level, you know, that it's okay to take some time away and take care of yourself. And Tony Khan has proven that, that that's what, you know, AEW, he wants his company to be about is that, it's really about taking care of the wrestlers first and not just trying to go out and make your appearances. That he really does care, you know, about each and every one of them. And so it's just great to see that, you know, the way that

13:45 this has been received by fans. But, you know, like you said, that Jon Moxley, someone who's this big, rough kind of character, you know, can also admit that, you know.

13:54 He's human too. He's more than just the.

13:57 Character that you see on TV. There's also Jonathan Goode, the person. you know, and he needs to take some time away to work on himself. And I think it's just a great signal, you know, to everyone who's watching.

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14:36 Your time is valuable and that's one of the reasons we offer VIP membership. pwtorch.com slash govip. All right, let's pause and introduce ourselves and then we will bring on to kick off the show our on-site correspondent. And then we've got Evan and Nick and more on hold as our first callers. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021. I'm Wade Keller, the host of the program, the editor, founder, publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter, the website pwtorch.com, and the host of this, the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show, and also the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. Those are two separate feeds. Search Wade Keller on your podcast app.

15:24 That's Wade Keller. And you'll see two logos pop up.

15:28 One is red, one is blue. Subscribe to both. The red are the live post shows.

15:32 You can stream it live or download the final version on our podcast feed, which is what most of you do. And you can also download our regular podcast, including our flagship yesterday, covering a wide array of current events of pro wrestling. Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter columnist Rich Phan joined me on the flagship yesterday. I encourage you to check that out. We talked a lot about Cody Getting booed.

15:54 Roads to the top. How much Malachi Black played into that. The job Cody did. We'll get into that momentarily with our on-site correspondent. And Joel, you and I, I'm sure we'll talk about that later. So check that out if you haven't yet. Okay, so we are talking AEW Dynamite live. And you can join us if you are live streaming the show. We might have more people from the West Coast who are watching live and can join us than usual.

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17:01 And you can also email for our flagship, and mailbag editions on any topic in wrestling. You can help steer the direction of our show, and we welcome disagreement. We welcome clarification. We welcome topics that we don't normally cover. It is very open, and we're always monitoring that inbox, and so take advantage of it.

17:21 Wade Keller Podcast at PWTorch.com.

17:26 All right.

17:27 The other voice you've heard so far is Joel Donnell. He is a PWTorch.com contributor. Joel, welcome back to the co-host chair.

17:36 Yeah, thanks for having me back.

17:38 On, Wade.

17:39 I apologize to everyone. I'm calling in through my phone.

17:42 I must have rolled over my cord to my regular microphone. So I'm getting that order, getting that replay so that next time I'll come in a lot clearer.

17:51 Yep, no problem. Stuff happens.

17:54 And, you know, I'm just disappointed we couldn't drone deliver it to you in the last two hours. We're not too far away from that, Joel.

18:03 Right.

18:04 Amazon just dropping it on your doorstep from above.

18:08 Well, I did get it ordered before the show started. So it said like it'll be delivered tomorrow morning.

18:13 So power of technology.

18:15 Absolutely. All right, cool.

18:18 So let's dive into the next portion of the show here. And we'll begin with Gregory, our on-site correspondent, who is in Independence, Missouri tonight. Gregory, welcome to the show. Where are you right now?

18:29 Yeah, I'm standing beside these three people. So ask me anything and I will do the best I can. I've got some notes here.

18:41 So Gregory, first things first, what did it look like? A completely full house?

18:45 I know they were within hundreds of seats, hundreds of tickets of becoming an official sellout as of yesterday.

18:51 Yeah, next to me that was cut off. It was one of the only sections that was Yep. So I want to get into the reaction to Cody because that's been a big subtopic of conversation.

19:12 Since last week, last couple weeks.

19:15 So on television, and I want Joel to back me up on this before I throw to you, Gregory, it sounded like there wasn't a big reaction for Cody tonight and that they were more neutral and muted than in past weeks. Is that what you heard, Joel? And then I want to hear from Gregory what he experienced in the building.

19:31 That's what I thought I heard, you know, during the entrance.

19:33 That was kind of like, oh, you know, it's not kind of the same typical strong reaction. But then during the match, it seemed like during Cody's comeback that there was a bit more cheering for him than there was booing. But I'd like to hear kind of what, Gregory, you thought those percentages were, cheering versus booing.

19:50 Because I'm also wondering if they messed with the sound, you know, the crowd mic during the ring entrance. And that's the value of people like Gregory who are in the building and can tell us what really happened. Gregory, tell us what the crowd response was for the ring entrance and any other reactions to Cody.

20:04 I actually took a bathroom break during the entrance, so I didn't hear really well the ring entrance audio. But as far as the match went, I felt as the match went on that the crowd seemed to be... There were dueling chants going on. The crowd seemed to be, from my vantage point, more against Cody than for him.

20:22 I mean, he had his fair share of supporters. There were dueling chants going on, but there were a lot of people cheering, especially once Andrade picked up the victory. I would say, for me, that the boo... seemed to outweigh the queues uh that was from my.

20:36 Bed it definitely wasn't overwhelming booze like in recent weeks but you know joe yes i definitely heard uh some booze in fact even during the ring entrance scattered i heard scattered booze but when that when the music first started it didn't just erupt into roman reigns-esque booze and in a way i think cody will consider that maybe that last week's promo was a victory um or it could be kind of city by city kind of like it was with roman at times too and I'm sure Cody just loves us talking about him in the same breath as Roman, but you know, you know, that.

21:05 Ill-fated baby face push of his. So yeah. Joel, why don't you jump in with a question for Gregory?

21:11 Yeah.

21:11 So I just want to ask you about kind of the opening segment and just.

21:14 You know, what is the general feel about the Omega and Page program?

21:18 I mean, does that feel like it's the hottest program on the show right now?

21:22 I've got to be honest. I did not get that impression. I was surprised. I mean, I'm not saying Page got no reaction. I mean, he got a reaction, but it was, I thought it was kind of subdued, to be honest. And there were probably about, I'd say, five or six people that I would say got bigger reactions than Hangman.

21:38 I feel like he was super, super hot before he took time off and then lost to Sixth Man. Since he's been back, I mean, I know the segment last week was very well received by the live crowd in Boston, but I felt that I didn't feel like. I did not feel like that was the main event of the next pay-per-view level reaction. As I said, I feel like there were several people in several segments that were more over than Paige. And so I came away surprised at just the reaction, that it wasn't bigger.

22:08 Interesting.

22:08 And who were those other people?

22:10 Yeah, yeah.

22:10 Go ahead and rank who got the biggest positive reactions.

22:14 Oh, well, I would say.

22:16 inner circle fans loved uh inner circle and they hated uh dan lennon darby allen was super over i'd say maybe the biggest of all would have been uh brian danielson and we'll have to get into what happened after the show went off the air because that's very noteworthy as well i think um but um danielson darby allen was super popular and by default mjs was super unpopular uh cm punk got a very big reaction and it's trying to think of one more person i john silver was just below that level he wasn't at the punk danielson level of over but uh he was uh he got a good reaction for his for his promo and so uh i would say that all the people i mentioned there uh inner circle punk danielson uh probably orange

22:59 as well and um oh tony khan himself tony khan came out before the show and he came out after the show and uh So I would say that those were probably the biggest crowd talk. As far as heel heat, it was MJX and Dan Lambert by far.

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23:59 Well, let's get into what happened before and after the show, especially after the show, if that's the most noteworthy, Gregory.

24:04 Yeah, so before the show, there were three dark matches taped before the dark elevation taping. Butcher and Blade beat Wheeler Yuta and Chuck Taylor. Then Reho defeated the local talent, and Matt Hardy defeated the local talent. The elevation taping, I won't. Powerhouse Hobbs won a quick match. And then there was a women's tag team match with Nyla Rose and Emi Sakura versus Ryo Mizunami and Yubi Soho. For people who are interested in the match, I won't spoil. Actually, no, I think that was one of the dark matches, too.

24:34 And that was a victory for Nyla Rose. No, Yubi Soho pinned Emi Sakura.

24:41 I'm sorry.

24:41 And then she was attacked after the match, and I pissed that one in her name to save, which builds up to their... for their second-round tournament match. And then the other match on the dark elevation taping was the acclaimed and two partners against members of the Dark Order. And so people who want to watch that can check that out for themselves. And Max Caster had some heel lines about Pat Mahomes and Kansas City Barbecue being overrated.

25:07 And so had a Joe Biden poop his pants line. It was less controversial than what he.

25:12 Was saying before, obviously.

25:14 I thought that was good. And then Tony Khan came out just before the show and talked about, and this will figure into what happened after the show, he said this was the second most, this was the second hardest week for him since he got into the wrestling business. And I guess that's referencing John Moxley's situation. So he came out and said that before the show started. Then after the show started, I guess we'll get into it now, after the show went off the air, Miro left the ring without incident with Danielson. And then Danielson, then Tony Khan came out and he talked, and he mentioned specifically that...

25:45 This was the second hardest week in his career in the business. You can obviously know what the hardest week was. It was the death of Brody Lee. And then from there, he gave the– he took the microphone, put over Orange Cassidy, and then he mentioned the last text he ever received from Brody Lee, asked him how his life was, and Brody Lee responded by saying it was– effing awesome. Danielson put over Moxley as well saying he doesn't think he'd be an AEW if it wasn't for Moxley. Moxley showed Danielson that he could perform at the level he needed to coming out of the previous environment.

26:23 And all that.

26:24 So worthy for Khan really. He was visibly choking up as he talked about how emotional this week was for him and how much it meant and how thankful he was for the crowd and for the support that that Moxley's getting. So it was, uh, I think it was pretty noteworthy in that regard. I don't think it was your typical go home segment. I don't know what people in other cities get, but, uh, this didn't feel like a typical, uh, so, and then after that was, uh, Brian Danielson, uh, putting over Justin Roberts and playing off his previous history where he teased, uh, where he teased.

26:56 Choking him with his, uh, with.

26:57 His, uh, uh, the NX incident.

26:59 Oh God.

27:00 And then he ended up just, uh, praising Justin Roberts and, uh, talking about how great of an announcer he is. And so, um, I would say it was very notable in that it was not your typical post-show segment with Khan showing some visible emotion and then the comments from Danielson that followed. All of that was very over with the live crowd.

27:20 Ed, did everybody stick around for all that? Or did some people file out?

27:25 I think, yeah, I think very, very few people left. I mean, if any, I mean, it was a small portion of people that left.

27:33 Yep, yep.

27:36 We talked about who got the biggest babyface reactions, and you mentioned Dan Lambert got a lot of heel heat. How about heel reactions? Britt Baker, Kenny Omega, Andrade, FTR. I'm trying to think who else would be in that category. Miro, MJF. Usually MJF has the most heel heat, along with Dan Lambert.

27:57 Was that the case again?

27:58 Yeah, he was very, very good. Yeah, both of them.

28:02 Both of them.

28:03 I would say Britt Baker didn't get the kind of heat. It was that segment. It wasn't the crowd. It wasn't super reactionary to the Jamie Hayter, Anna Jay match. I mean, FTR was okay. By the way, I absolutely love their theme, that Midnight Express kind of spin-off theme. I think that is absolutely awesome. I don't know if it's the first time.

28:25 I think it might have been the first time it's played. I absolutely love that theme. I wanted to throw that in there. And then I thought Andrade actually was a borderline babyface, considering, to me, the reaction to Cody was very, at least 50-50. So I wouldn't quite put him in that category. And Kenny didn't have... I mean, a lot of people around me are cheering for Omega. But by far, MJF and Dan Lambert are super over it. And Jade Van Zandt as well. I second Todd Martin's sentiment of the email on the mailbag last week. I mean, she's a natural. She wants to take it seriously. She could be very good in this industry as well.

29:07 If you weren't told– And.

29:08 My battery is, like, dying very rapidly.

29:10 Oh, sure.

29:11 Yep.

29:11 Real quick, if you were not told Kenny Omega and Hangman Page was the main event of the next pay-per-view for the world title and you just based just the crowd reaction tonight, would you think it was a main event? Like, did it reach quite that level?

29:27 No, I don't think it has. I mean, based on the crowd reaction tonight, I would not think so.

29:33 Is there anything else you want to share with us that's in your notes before your battery dies on us?

29:40 I mean, not a ton else. I think I got most of the information out. It could have been the crowd reactions in the post-show segment with Tony Khan and Brian Danielson. So there might be some other things I could add, and maybe if I think about them, I might send an email a little later. But other than that, I think I pretty much said what I was really thinking about the show, and thank you.

29:59 Absolutely. Thanks, Gregory. Appreciate it.

30:00 All right. Have a good night.

30:02 Yeah, you too.

30:03 Yep.

30:03 If you want to be an on-site correspondent for a future episode of this, the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show after Raw, Dynamite, or SmackDown, email me at wadekellerpodcast at pwtorch.com and put the name of the city in your subject line and email. Then I can do a search for that city as the date approaches and it will pop up and not get lost in the mix with a ton of other emails, especially if you're letting us know weeks or months ahead of time, as often happens with our on-site correspondents. So again, that's WadeKellerPodcast at PWTorch.com.

30:38 Appreciate Gregory phoning in and giving us a lot of insight into what happened off-camera and crowd reactions. Yeah, I had not talked to Tony Khan about his week. That is to say that this is the second hardest week that he's been through. I don't know if there's anything else. There doesn't have to be anything else. But it kind of conveys the idea that this was more than Moxley calling him up and going, hey, Tony, I don't know if you know, but I think I have a drinking problem, and I'm going to check myself into treatment.

31:11 Oh, yeah. Okay.

31:12 All right.

31:13 Good for you. You know, stay in touch. Like it had to be more than that.

31:15 If this is like this tough week, I mean, you know, cause you, I, you know, you don't know, and I'm not prying, um, you know, about the details, but this, you know, saying that is a window into what a, you know, kind of emotional week and, you know, whatever led to this, um, was something on the higher end of emotionally, uh, challenging for key people involved. I would say that is, again, unless something else happened in Tony's life, he's not sharing with us. It sounds like this was a pretty stressful ordeal regarding Moxley and not as straightforward as it's the case in some situations like this, by the way.

31:54 Yeah.

31:55 I mean, we won't know unless Moxley decides to share that publicly, but You know, it seems like, you know, that probably something had been going on for a while, you know, and it seems like, you know, it probably was Moxley himself who took it upon himself to get the help that he needed, you know, and it was probably a really big moment for the people around him, you know, and a really big moment for John himself. So, again, like it's hard to speak on it, not knowing, you know, more of the facts other than just that he's heading into treatment. But, you know, I can only imagine that for Tony Khan, someone who is really close to a lot of the wrestlers on the roster, that, you know, this would be a really tough and emotional week for him.

32:40 Yep, absolutely.

32:41 Okay, well, let's jump to our callers. I'll give the phone numbers out one more time. If you are listening to our live stream, you are cordially invited to call and tell us your thoughts about the show tonight or ask questions.

32:56 The number is 347- 215-8558. That's 347-215-8558.

33:07 It's next-level coverage that you come to expect from the PW Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high-quality writing, breaking news, and fascinating flashbacks every day at pwtorch.com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media experience that I know many of you regret once you get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at a time, and settle in for high-quality PW Torch-branded wrestling coverage. All right, we'll begin with area code 705. Welcome to the show. Go ahead, state your name and the city you're calling from, please.

33:47 Hey, Wade. Hinton from London, Ontario.

33:49 How you doing, Hinton? Good to hear from you.

33:51 I want to start with... Where's my notes here? CM Punk. So I thought... I heard what you had to say with Rich Phan on your podcast yesterday. I sort of disagree. I thought Punk's attitude on Rampage last week was fine. I thought he would be disappointed with Kingston... not because of the interruption, but more because, you know, he had respect for him. And then, uh, he, he probably thought he would be accepting of Daniel Bryan, uh, Bryan Danielson's handshake and he didn't. So I thought the, the I'm disappointed line wasn't, uh, CM Punk so much being just, you know, dad CM Punk. I thought it was just him commenting on Eddie Kingston's behavior of late. So I was, I was fine with that. However, um, today, uh, him

34:41 getting so hung up about being interrupted, I felt was a little dissonant with that attitude. And I think it would have made more sense for Kingston to do something else to Punk to warrant in-ring attention from him. So, yeah, what are your thoughts on this feud so far?

34:57 Yeah, I mean, even if he was disappointed in Kingston and in the Bryan Danielson situation, still to just go.

35:06 I'm disappointed in you.

35:09 The tone is, it's a teacher or a dad or a coach who a kid has let them down. It just kind of was weird to me, the tone and everything. And then I think he confirmed tonight. He was disappointed in him because he interrupted him. And then he made it worse by going, I don't like to get interrupted. And it's like suddenly he's sounding like Vince McMahon. Don't interrupt me.

35:33 I'm the boss.

35:34 Like who are you to get so hung up on being interrupted? And just the kind of weird social unawareness that if you really are upset about being interrupted and not– people like to be interrupted. But how does that sound when you proclaim to the world, I– do not like being interrupted. I take that very personally. Like it's just, I don't know. I didn't, I didn't think it was the best look for him. Uh, I thought he even got prickly with a fan who said, fight him. And he's like, well, he's not here. You know, like, so I don't know. I just wasn't quite sure. I've wanted angry punk, you know, more than happy punk. Um, but this wasn't quite on tone.

36:12 For me either.

36:13 Uh, small sample size of two situations last Friday and tonight, but, I still think he's in search of a mission and in search of his voice.

36:22 I really do.

36:23 And I, I, this was a window into something that I don't think is particularly marketable with him.

36:28 Joel, how about you? What do you, what do you think about this?

36:31 Yeah.

36:32 Yeah.

36:32 Wait, I really do agree with that.

36:34 And the fact that like, we don't know what CM Punk's real mission is yet, other than it's a guy who's, who was excited to come back and he's kind of seeing if he's still got it here. And, The whole reasoning behind the Eddie Kingston and CM Punk feud feels just very like it's been shooed in at kind of the last moment at something to kind of round out the pay-per-view, presumably, that they're going to have their match there.

36:58 And just the reasoning, like you mentioned, is that it just feels very weak why.

37:02 Punk is against Eddie Kingston.

37:04 Yes, I did like the fact that he was a more serious Punk, that it felt like he had a grudge and that something was going on. But, I mean, the reasoning behind it, it just feels, you know, very weak. And I'm still waiting around for CM Punk to have, like, the serious, like, hey, I want to be champion. I want to be the best again. Like, I want to face the best wrestlers. And, like, have, like, a serious grudge against somebody. Not just, you know, hey, this guy interrupted me. Or, hey, I just want to see if I'm good enough to face Darby Allin. Like, I want to see him get back into a serious feud. And, you know, it feels like I'm still waiting for that.

37:40 And the other thing that you mentioned, too, is it's like, you know, I keep going back and forth where it's like, you know, is that punk's personality just kind of being prickly, you know, and letting that out a little bit, you know.

37:52 Which, by the way, matches his, you know, what we saw tonight, Joel, matches his.

37:56 Reputation behind the scenes of being prickly.

37:58 Yeah.

37:59 Yeah.

37:59 And being kind of moody. I mean, I don't think he hides from that. I just think we got more of a window into it in this unscripted environment than normal.

38:06 Yeah.

38:07 And it's, and so that's more what I think it is. I mean, otherwise he's, you know, masterfully, you know, trying to turn heel, you know, very slightly by doing these little things, you know, every week. But I don't think that right now, at least that that's the direction that they're going. I think it's more just kind of punk and he's been given a lot of free reign and, you know, at some point I think it's going to have to be, you know, Tony Khan kind of reeling it in a little bit and giving him more of a focus.

38:33 All right. Hitting back to you.

38:35 Yeah, I think I may have been a bit too charitable to him on Friday considering what we saw today, but I guess we'll see where this goes. I want to move on to someone I'm not going to be charitable to, and that is John Silver. This guy's got a big match against Adam Cole coming on Friday, and I'm sorry, for someone who's going to face still this hot new acquisition that AEW just got, he sounded like he was challenging Adam Cole to a water balloon fight, or a laser tag competition, or like a or player versus player dnd game and look i like water balloons i like laser tag i like d and i would i would hang out with john silver out of a wrestling environment i'm sure we would be best friends but that's not what i want to see in a wrestling

39:17 pro um what and tony khan likes this guy but you know based on that that text message he shared with with uh the late john huber about um how he reminds him of someone so what do you make of what do you make of Silver getting this kind of spotlight?

39:33 I loved Jason Paul's comment over at ProWrestling.net in his report. He said, as someone who doesn't keep a close eye on being the elite or dark shows, I have no idea what the hell Silver was talking about. I got pissed off watching this promo. I mean, for reasons that you said, Hinton, And this assumption that your world is everybody's world. Do you not know the context? You're talking in front of a million-plus people on Dynamite, and you're doing these little Clubhouse secret handshake inside joke stuff that's on a YouTube show, presumably. It felt tone-deaf. It kind of made me angry that he did such an unserious Clubhouse secret handshake promo online. On Dynamite, I'm glad they're giving interviews of people leading into Rampage. I think that's smart.

40:21 I was very disappointed in John Silver, Joel.

40:29 I can't articulate it better than that, but that's the same thing for me. It seems like John Silver has his little niche, people of the broader AEW fan base that you know, like his energy and his enthusiasm.

40:46 But yeah, this promo is playing to.

40:48 A very, you know, just a fraction of the audience that Dynamite has of the BTE stuff. And I, like Jason Powell, you know, I'm not always watching BTE. I'll watch it, you know, if I hear that something big happens on it. But I mean, it's just playing to such a small amount of people. And so to see John Silver kind of in this big role, I mean, you've heard my thoughts on the Dark Order before is that I feel that they're, You know, they're a nice act, but they're they're just cartoons. I mean, they're cartoons, you know, and you're wedging it in between all this other stuff that we're supposed to take seriously. So it just whenever they do things like that, it just really doesn't ever work for me.

41:26 We all have goofy friends, but.

41:29 We don't think everyone's going to get the jokes that our friends that we have in our circle of friends. You know, and we don't it's just it's just so presumptuous that like, you know, his his funny little inside jokes are like, something everybody's going to get as much of a kick out of as he and his buddies do. And, you know, and that what works on being the elite is going to work on dynamite. I just, yeah, I was just shaking my head during that one.

41:50 Anything else?

41:52 Yeah, I don't think I'd even be as angry if at least the goofiness was on dynamite. But I'm just worried that someday Tony Khan's going to put this guy in a serious feud and someone's going to attack John Silver's family and this will be his tone still. And I think that's going to be my boiling point. But I want to also ask you about Adam Cole, because right now his involvement with the Young Bucks is starting to wear on me a little. I think he's kind of losing the edge that he had as a serious sort of faction leader on NXT. And I feel like the Bucks, while they are, I think they've been good on their own, pairing with Omega, I think they've kind of watered him down a little to where he's just

42:32 kind of one of them instead of, you know, the guy I used to like on NXT. And even if they end up ousting Omega, I think the longer he stays in that environment with, you know, Brandon Cutler behind him and such, I think his star power is starting to diminish a bit in my eyes. So am I reading a little too much into this? What do you guys make of Cole so far?

42:56 I'm with you on this one, Hinton. I... I want to give it breathing space. I've been a huge fan of the Bucs since they really just turned it up as a heel act in recent months.

43:10 I mean, really, really good.

43:11 But if they're friends in real life, but that doesn't mean it translates or that it's the right time to feature them together on air.

43:22 It's too late. I mean, they're together. They're the super clique.

43:25 So now it's not a matter of second guessing and and undoing it, but it's more, you know, is there a way to change course?

43:32 And I think, I mean, Cole isn't a total goof like the Bucs are.

43:38 The Bucs are total goofs, but in like a gimmick-appropriate way that I think works and makes them entertaining and makes people want to pay to boo them in addition to, you know, being entertained by how good their matches are. And I think they found that sweet spot. I agree that I like Cole in a more serious environment.

43:56 I'm still.

43:58 giving my I'm giving them some space to figure it out and find their stride but we're getting to a point where there is some stuff with Cole that feels like it's diminishing him I think the idea that there's you know that he's in the same faction with Kenny Omega is is intentional and you know eventually you know there's going to be that is this town big enough for the both of us type moment and and we'll see where that goes and there's a lot of possibilities um but yeah it's weird but like I think Kenny's kind of goof personality is a better fit for what the Bucs are doing.

44:28 Now than Cole.

44:29 It's not that Cole is bad at it, and I don't think you're saying that, as much as him being around it is diminishing what is usually a more serious demeanor from him.

44:40 Joel, your thoughts on that?

44:42 Yeah, I mean, of course, if we're thinking about last week and, you know, the dressed up as the Ghostbusters stuff, I mean, it just didn't it didn't fit Cole at all.

44:51 I mean, a guy who's more the serious, smoldering, cool guy.

44:54 It just it didn't fit with kind of the goofiness that they're doing. And so I think that overall, you know, if you take out next last week of what happened there. I think that Cole is fine right now with.

45:05 The young bucks.

45:07 You know, I'd like to see Cole just more kind of featured, like he's a big deal instead of this guy who's, you know, part of the elite. But then, you know, as far as Kenny Omega, I think it's less of Nakazawa and Brandon Cutler and the goofy people around him. And it's just more of his own personality, you know, coming out. as, you know, he's just more kind of a zany, you know, almost borderline kind of Shawn Michael DX a little bit, you know?

45:34 He's got a little bit of that in him.

45:36 But, you know, Adam Cole, I don't think that he's ruined by any means, but I would just like to see him more kind of featured as Adam Cole. He's a big deal instead of, you know, he's kind of featured more in these segments instead of, like, here's a big Adam Cole match like they've done more with Bryan Danielson.

45:54 And on the bright side, I mean, Cole– yes, if we exclude last week and the silliness there. But if we include everything but that, Cole is around the box who are doing more kind.

46:06 Of goof– I don't know.

46:07 I hate to say goofy stuff because Kenny kind of has that market cornered. But they're more like the obnoxious– boo us because we're obnoxious and all that. But, I mean, especially Nick and also Matt, but especially Nick is so good at it.

46:23 With the body language and.

46:24 The mannerisms and the facial expressions are just so awesome. And that's not Cole's personality. You know, Cole's personality is a better match, if you look history-wise, for something more serious.

46:35 Going back to.

46:36 ROH and NXT and Undisputed Era. But he always is, you know, like tonight, he was the guy talking. He was in the middle. He was in the center. He was the leader. And the Bucs were on either side of him. And so I think they're cognizant of that. And Cole is standing out as the more serious person. But I'm not seeing the Bucs adding to what I think we imagined Cole could have been. Part of that, again, I think it's exacerbated by the John Silver promo tonight and that that's what they're having him do. And, you know, I mean, everybody who they signed, I think, I mean, I guess I wouldn't say this about Brian Danielson. It's just, you know, he didn't come in and just win the world title, get a world title program. He obviously fought

47:21 candy to the draw. But, you know, he's kind of doing his own thing. But obviously in this eliminator tournament, he's in a serious situation. But Cole and Punk, it's been kind of a slower build. Joel, I mean, do you think that if as of November 3rd, they're in a better, the same or a worse place than your expectations when you heard they were about to debut?

47:46 I mean, Punk is in a far worse place. You know, he is he still gets the great reactions every single week. But as far as just like the performances and kind of, you know, where you imagine he'd be, I just think that a lot of people had a lot higher expectations. And I don't think that he's it's not that he's never going to reach those. It just is going to be a longer journey than I think a lot of people thought, you know, to get the ring rust off, to kind of get his.

48:12 Bearings back on.

48:14 And hopefully he has the appetite to want to be the top guy again instead of just someone who wants to work with guys he never has before and put over the young talent. Cole, I mean, he just came in as a really hot act that people wanted to see what he'd be able to do in AEW.

48:32 Outside of WWE where on the.

48:34 Main roster he was supposed to be the manager of Keith Lee.

48:36 Yeah. and so I think that he's just not, um, he hasn't hit his full potential. I think that he dipped, you know, from where he came in, but it hasn't been as dramatic of a fall off as I think CM Punk has been.

48:51 Uh, hitting anything else for us?

48:52 Yeah. Good points guys. Uh, before I sign off, I wanted to give, uh, Eric Kroll a shout out. Uh, he had a great column on the new kind of baby face that hangman pages, uh, presenting to us. And I agree with about 95% of what he wrote. So everyone go VIP if you want to check that column out. And thanks, Joel. And thanks, Wade, for taking my call.

49:13 Excellent. uh thanks i appreciate it.

49:18 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts well come join me alan forel over in the progress paradise at pw torch vip as we bask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world be it the u.s japan europe or mexico There's always a place for wrestling's past in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series, celebrating the glorious career of Jushin Thunder Liger, and our I Was There When shows, where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety, and you can expect lots of it at the Pro Wrestling Paradise. Detailed PWTorch VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP

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50:19 See you in the paradise! All right, we'll go to Evan in Chicago next. Evan, thanks for calling. Thanks for holding. What you think of Dynamite tonight?

50:34 Hey, what's going on? Thank you for remembering where I'm from, and I'm glad you do because besides the numerous champions and stars that were born in this city, a fun fact for you, before it debuted in AEW, Judas, Chris Jericho's theme song, was actually brought here for a TakeOver special. Now, besides that, I want to get back to what Cody did, speaking of Chicago. Tonight, even though it wasn't the main event, that was actually one of the pinnacles of what a main event should look like on AEW programming.

51:14 But it wasn't on the main.

51:15 Event, in my opinion, only because they still need Cody to play that uh, part that he needs to play for not only himself, but for his coach, because I believe that deep down inside, Cody really is thinking about the fans. There is something in him that is saying like, is there something missing out of me that I'm not yet tapping into yet that these fans are seeing, but I'm not, I'm not saying for myself and I've been there before. I've been there so many times. And personally, I want to thank Cody for, uh, for matches that he's given us like, man, I'm going to go deep here, Dylan McQueen and Dean Alexander for that kind of match that produced a match like what we just saw this past Tuesday with Daniel Garcia and RSP. That match that

52:06 was produced on Elevation was probably one of the best matches I've seen on Elevation. I have two stars that have yet to be pressed and turned into diamonds since they've been here for the very first time. And honestly, since the last time we've spoken, I had the honor to sit front row at the third Rampage event that was here in Chicago.

52:29 And funny enough, the.

52:32 Person who I walked in on as the show was going on was Lance Archer. And I know we had a long conversation about that. I know we had a long conversation about him and what was going on with him and Mox at the time. And hats off to CM Punk tonight for showing his support for Mox. I think what's going on is a beautiful thing with everyone standing in, banding in, and showing their love and support for what's going on. And through the times and all the trials and tribulations that he's been through, we've honestly...

53:14 the ones who've experienced it firsthand, the ones who's followed him, they get to share exactly what it is to be in the shoes of not only the fan, not only the competitor, but for the life that makes the choices to be a part of the lives that ultimately makes the bigger choices. And that's what we see out of CM Punk when we get what we get tonight out of him. Speaking of Punk, I want to talk about Eddie Kingston. I believe CM Punk needs someone like Eddie Kingston because besides Moxley, besides Moxley, if you're staying with me, Eddie Kingston is the type of guy that would step to CM Punk and would say, where are you going?

53:58 We kind of need you here right now because it almost seems as though your mind is elsewhere. Now, I can be as biased as I want. I can be as biased as I want about CM Punk, but what I can do is say that CM Punk would drift away, um, and section himself off somewhere that he doesn't need to be. And with that being said, if his mind wasn't already on where it should have been, where, which is the, um, which is the AEW championship, in my opinion, if I'm not calling it too soon, it could have happened. Um, then you put someone in his path to make it happen.

54:38 Why he wasn't in a tournament, I don't know. But since we have someone who was in a tournament who was eliminated, you don't know where his footing is going to be next. And again, you find someone who hasn't been in these tournaments, who hasn't been put in a position to set themselves up for their contingency and everything like that. Not contingency, contention rather. That would be a pick-your-poison right there, and I kind of commend Eddie Kingston for it. I'm not here for any Eddie Kingston slander.

55:12 I'm not here for it. I don't want to hear it. I commend him for it. I support him, and I want to see how it all plays out this Friday. But, yeah, honestly, from there, ooh, I think I have to agree with you on what you said about John Silver. I believe the man is honestly putting up numbers for him and his team. Um, if there's a YouTube video out there somewhere of him cranking his arm for 10 minutes, I would love to see that touch a million views ASAP pronto. Um, and other than that, I believe the opening match, Mr.

55:48 Omega and Mr. Uh, it was Omega. And please forgive me because I was honestly going to talk about, yeah, Alan angels. I was going to talk about his entrance as well. Um, I wouldn't say it was very subdued. I'd say it was inadequate compared to his other reactions. But him being the man that he has been for the company honestly makes him less of a factor to the fans only because we are understanding that Whenever Justin Roberts is calling out, you know, this match is for 20 minutes, this match is for six or three, whatever, he's going to give you five rings in one match.

56:34 He's going to put those up. He's going to put it up. And I honestly look to that man to do exactly what it is that he sets out to do each time he comes down that ramp.

56:45 And Mr.

56:47 Angels, who was on a four-match winning streak beforehand, went into that match already knowing what he was going to expect. And, you know, sorry, admiration aside, Alan Angels did his thing tonight. And, you know, I could stutter on his name all I want, but if you put his name next to someone like Kenny Omega, then honestly, he deserved that time. No matter where it was placed on the card, he deserved it.

57:15 What do you think about.

57:18 What do you honestly think about Eddie Kingston and CM Punk? What's going on with CM Punk? You know, what was going on in between time, Eddie Kingston not being there? What do you think? What do you think should be the end results of this that should ultimately be? the resolving factor into these two stories.

57:45 Sure.

57:45 Thanks, Evan.

57:46 Joel, your thoughts on Evan's last question and feel free to respond to anything else that he brought up.

57:52 Yeah.

57:53 So, I mean, you know, there's some interesting things going on with the CM Punk and Eddie Kingston thing, you know, because of what Punk had said about Jon Moxley, you know, the heartfelt message about that. But then also Eddie Kingston, you know, having that relationship with Moxley, And how all that's going to play out.

58:11 In the ring as.

58:11 Well is do they acknowledge that friendship or is it just kind of an exclusive grudge that Punk's going to have with Eddie Kingston?

58:22 And so right now, we talked.

58:26 About before kind of that their feud is not really all that strong with Punk. CM Punk's kind of going off of, Hey, you interrupted me.

58:34 I don't like that.

58:35 And I think that I want to see.

58:36 More from this rampage episode when they actually do go face to face and see what, you know, promo is like from punk where he's really in the face of another great talker like Eddie Kingston and see, you know, how does this beauty ball and is it something that does lead into a match at full gear?

58:53 Uh, anything else that, uh, Evan brought up, you want to respond to either?

58:56 Um, I mean, CM Punk is kind of the main thing with it.

59:02 Otherwise, with John Silver, I mean, it's– yeah. I mean, I can go without that.

59:08 Dion?

59:10 Angels-Kenny Omega match, Evan brought that up, and I thought this was another example of AEW putting somebody, they, there's a way to have a star win, but also elevate somebody else at the same time. And I think AW might have done a little more of that than they ought to have at times, but it's not binary. It's not either an on-off switch. You don't just always do it or never do it. I think AW's done it, had longer matches with big names who should have won quicker against certain opponents over time. But that said, I thought they did a really good job with Allen Angels here.

59:49 I think they elevate... I wouldn't say he's made. If he was going to be a big top star, they probably would have... indicated that they believed that by now. But they made him more relevant and elevated. And considering that this was the lead-in for Hangman Page coming out, and you're playing off of the long dynamic between Hangman and Dark Order, you know, it fit. But the announcers from the beginning, is Alan Angels that one guy who's got Kenny's number? And, you know, Kenny's dominating, but Alan gets a good amount of offense in and look good. And, you know, Kenny certainly is part of helping make that happen.

1:00:28 But you know, and, and Kenny had, you know, that cocky cover, which is sort of sitting on his, on it, sitting on him. And, you know, in that sort of was why Alan angels was able to kick out. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have, but then it took that second feet trigger and a more serious leg hook to pin him just in the end. I thought it was smartly booked.

1:00:47 You know, it was, it's aggressively long. Um, you know, how long that match went, but I think it worked. Um, I mean, I probably would have shaved a few minutes off, but I don't know if the story would have.

1:01:01 Been the same.

1:01:02 What do you think about that kind of philosophically in general? And then specifically tonight, how often we see wrestlers lasting longer against stars than we would have predicted would be the case. And certainly it's not something you see in WWE very often where, you know, it's only people on their same level who are wrestling each other or it's a squash.

1:01:22 Yeah, I think that overall it's really is case to case, you know, who who are the two wrestlers who are involved in that match? And I think that tonight, you know, seeing this match between Omega and Angels, I don't remember the exact time, but I think it was like, you know, around 10, 12 minutes or so that they.

1:01:39 Was as long as the match went.

1:01:40 And, you know, most of the match was Angels kind of taking a lot of the signature spots from Omega while showing, you know, some of his athleticism. There was some nice false finishes with it, you know, trying to roll up Kenny Omega to get the surprise win. And I think that was kind of the way that was booked was that you didn't ever think that, you know, Angels was ever just going to defeat Omega definitively, but he might sneak something on him. And I'm fine with that being the story, that he's not getting close false finishes on Omega. The fans know that Omega is the one who's going to dominate this, that he's going to win.

1:02:19 But there's a small little sliver of a chance that Allen Angels might roll him up for a win. You think of matches in the past where we saw Scorpio Sky and Chris Jericho, where Scorpio Sky wasn't anywhere close. Um, you know, he, he was at a much higher level than Alan angels and he's not close to where he is now, but you know, he was able to roll up Chris Jericho and lead to a title match.

1:02:40 Down the road.

1:02:40 So by doing things like that, it gives you, you know, a sense that anything could happen. You know, I, Alan angels of course is not, you know, at that stage yet, but it does give him a nice spot to get featured, get his name, you know, in front of fans and also just show, you know, some of the stuff that he can do against, uh, you know, a star on the roster.

1:03:01 Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch daily casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a bit and see if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows, like the Wade Keller post shows, the Wade Keller podcast flagship, our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch daily cast lineup online. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade,

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1:04:09 All right, very good.

1:04:10 Let's go to our next call here. We'll go to Nick in Brattleboro. Nick, thanks for calling. What's on your mind tonight?

1:04:16 Good evening. How are you guys doing tonight?

1:04:18 Good.

1:04:18 How about you?

1:04:21 Yeah, good, good.

1:04:22 I wanted to tie a few things together on the show tonight.

1:04:25 Yeah.

1:04:26 And one is that the way they handled Jon Moxley making this decision, and I totally support him, and I've lived that with several friends and parents, and it's a tough decision and it's a hard road, so I just wish him the best of luck. But people have been getting on Tony somewhat, always stockpiling so many people and stuff, But tonight was a perfect example of he lost Moxley and was able to slide Miro right in. And, you know, they can now go in so many different directions because let's say Miro beats Danielson and Page beats Omega, it sets up, you know, Adam Page's next move. big opponent.

1:05:30 Whether Miro actually ever gets there or not, we're months away from that. I just think the roster Tony has assembled lets him dance side to side and move when he has to move. Could you imagine if suddenly Seth Rollins disappeared and now who's biggie gonna fight you know i mean it's it's just there's he's got all these kind of people just percolating and to push back on hitting a little bit it's like the bucks and adam cole are almost kind of like they're sitting in the in the uh in the bullpen and they're doing enough to stay in front of everybody but when um the inner circle is done with the American top team, then you can move them over. Cole can go for the TNT title. The Bucs can fight LAX, I'm going to

1:06:36 use that name, you know, pride and powerful. I just, you know, I think they're almost kind of like he's got them kind of just sitting there bubbling and get through some stuff and then move them in.

1:06:52 Yeah, I don't think the issue is having people in the bullpen. It is with some people. I should say with me, I like having depth in the stockpiling. I have no problem with that. If they're impact players, so to speak, the issue is how many discards from WWE, like a Tony Nese and Bobby Fish, are you going to overhype and make too big of a deal out of and seem you're just eager to sign them Where it just gets to, it starts displacing other people who haven't been defined down by WWE to a really low level who are now getting TV time and ring time that could be going to someone else. There's even a reference that MJF made to that. Oh, when all these new guys were signed, everyone in the back was all scared,

1:07:38 but I wasn't. We weren't because we're pillars. It was, you know, shoot or work. He worked that into his promo that, yeah, all these new people come in and other people now are a little nervous behind the scenes.

1:07:49 So you have that side of things.

1:07:51 The other thing is it's not so much that Cole and the Bucs are, or that Cole is adding too much depth, Nick. It's more that are they, is the mix diminishing Cole as a new signing with a lot of potential momentum? And did Danielson punk and Brian all coming in essentially at once lead to two out of three starting quarterbacks being moved into sort of backup positions as the steam and excitement of their signing starts to dissipate.

1:08:27 And now they just become, Another really good and talented, but yet another, just another member of the roster, a deep roster. And that excitement of, oh my God, they're here now. This is so exciting. Sort of dissipates because you brought in three big starters all at once and you only had room for one.

1:08:42 So I would say that's.

1:08:44 How I would. Valid, valid point.

1:08:46 Yeah.

1:08:47 So Joel, you do want to react to any of that?

1:08:51 Yeah, I mean, like, there's so much going on in the roster, and that's why I wanted to ask the on-site correspondent, you know, do you feel that Omega and Paige is the hottest program right now? now? That's the title program, because there is so much that's going on, you know, on this roster. And it's like, you think about, you know, Cody and people wanting him to turn heel, and it's like, would.

1:09:10 Now even be a good time for that?

1:09:12 And my answer would be really no, because you would want to wait until that's really kind of your top program. Otherwise, it just kind of becomes, you know, another thing that's just, you know, on the roster. And so, you know, that's one of the adverse effects of bringing all these guys in at the same time is that, you know, Bryan Danielson's stock has just soared from here that people are able to see him in a free environment, you know, be the awesome wrestler.

1:09:36 That he is.

1:09:37 But, you know, I think that Adam Cole is more kind of what Nick says, that he's more kind of waiting in the wings, you know, with the young bucks of the association. I think he's got down a little bit. But I think that you can heat him up real quick by just inserting him into another good program. But you want to have depth on there because he brings up another point.

1:09:58 That's like you look.

1:09:59 At WWE and it's like if they lose somebody big, I mean that's almost catastrophic to them because they.

1:10:05 Don't have anyone to pull from.

1:10:07 They don't really have any really ready-made stars from NXT anymore.

1:10:13 At this point that they.

1:10:13 Could pull up and insert into a really big role. Whereas AEW, I mean, they're, they can very easily, you know, move people up and down the roster that they don't, they have a lot of, you know, undercard guys, but they pretty much just use them for dark and elevation. And then the people on dynamite can really be kind of moved to pretty.

1:10:31 Much anywhere on the roster or anywhere on the card.

1:10:34 All right. Nick, back to you.

1:10:37 Yeah, no, I just, I also, you said it at the beginning of the show. I just, What Miro's doing in his, you know, promos is just, it's just so good. And he always has a way of bringing Lana in for like a two-liner, you know. And it's just, you know, it's just, it's just, I can imagine he goes home and Lana goes, Oh, that was so great, honey. You know, it's just, it's, he's like.

1:11:09 And he goes, yeah.

1:11:11 Yeah, that's so good. I got to keep my wife happy.

1:11:14 For you, God.

1:11:20 For the, I am the redeemer. The, I, I, I, I, I, I watched Cody's entrance tonight and I'm just going, is he that blunt? I mean, you said it a couple of weeks ago, you know, it'd be so much better if he just, if he really does want to stay a baby face, you know, just come down to the ring, you know, run down to the ring, you know, just this entrance of his is just, it's a hundred percent.

1:11:57 And maybe that's what's in the back of their mind.

1:11:59 I mean, it's just, This is what we've been planning all the time, and all you people are talking about it, but we know what we're doing. But I'm just watching it. It was just like, oh, my God, what are you doing?

1:12:14 It feels like, and I've never said this before, but Cody's ring entrance feels like a scene out of Spinal Tap.

1:12:23 It's just too much.

1:12:29 I can't believe you pulled a Spinal Tap reference.

1:12:32 Yes, I mean.

1:12:34 Yes, he turned it up to 11.

1:12:36 Yes, it feels like it would be in a.

1:12:42 Mockumentary on pro wrestling with the oblivious EVP who doesn't get that it's just too much.

1:12:54 And if he just pulled back and had a regular entrance.

1:12:59 with regular music and get rid of all the extra pyro and coming up from the, under the stage, just all of that. And just got back to being a hardworking, my business is done in the ring type guy. I mean, it's every week is WrestleMania for him, you know, and it, it's just the extra layer on top of extra.

1:13:17 Layer, you know, kind of a plumber.

1:13:19 Yes. Yes.

1:13:20 DDP told me in a torch talk that, you know, Eric Bischoff just came up to him one time and said, look at you, every idea you've ever had. is layered on top of you. It's layer upon layer of earrings, and this, and that, and those pants, and that jacket, and that the medallion, and this, and that, and your hair, and your hat.

1:13:39 Strip it all away.

1:13:41 Strip it all away, and just be the common guy, the common baby face. DDP, the man of the people, it'll work, and DDP gives air credit for that, and it did. It worked, and I just, every, Cody's entrance is layer upon layer upon layer of, will this work?

1:13:57 Will this be cool? Will this look good?

1:13:58 And Brandy or whomever is sitting there going, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, more, more. And it's like he just needs to edit it down.

1:14:04 Okay, point made.

1:14:05 Yeah, go ahead.

1:14:06 Oh, no, I'm going to see your Spinal Tap reference and raise you Rocky Horror Picture Show.

1:14:12 Oh, there you go.

1:14:13 When Frankenfutter comes down the little elevator and you see the high heels and then you see the stockings and then you realize it's a guy.

1:14:22 Yep, yep, good job, yep.

1:14:28 So with that, I'm going to leave your audience with a Spinal Tap Rocky Horror Picture Show vision in their minds and have a really good night. And to Jon Moxley and his family, I hold nothing but good wishes in my heart for a– it's going to be a long recovery, but it can be done. And I hope he does it.

1:14:52 Yeah, we all do. Thanks, Nick. Appreciate it.

1:14:57 Hey, everyone. Longtime PWTorch columnist Sean Radican here to let you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you understand the story better or see it another way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring on a special guest for the second half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas

1:15:39 of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch's own Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on the news or give a standard hot take. I'll bring my decades of studying this industry and talking one-on-one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show so you understand not just what's happening, but the context of why. Get ahead of the news. Get ahead of the pack with Ratican Worldwide only at PWTorch VIP.

1:16:10 864, thanks for calling. Thanks for holding. What do you think about Dynamite? Oh, state your name and where you're.

1:16:22 Calling from first.

1:16:23 Hey, this is James in Clemson.

1:16:25 Hey, James.

1:16:25 Good to hear from you. Yeah, so what do you think of Dynamite tonight?

1:16:29 I thought it was a good show. I called in to talk about Miro being moved into the John Moxley spot.

1:16:36 Yes.

1:16:37 And I just want to say that I think that is a fantastic move. And I didn't even think about it until tonight. But once they announced it, I started thinking about Miro versus Bryan Danielson. And then I started thinking about Miro versus Heyman Page. And I just think those would be fantastic matches. And if it were me, I would go with Miro over Danielson because the title hunt fits his character as it is. And I just want to commend them for that move. And I think I want to know what you guys would do if it were you in that position, would you push Miro? Like, I think you should.

1:17:17 Yeah.

1:17:19 I mean, I, I am, like I said, I'm a big fan of Miro. He's one of my favorites to watch right now. I didn't, I wasn't sure if it was such short notice. And obviously the decision to go with Miro here was by definition short notice. And I'm sure Tony thought of a number of things. My main concern was not rushing something else in. that didn't that if there was a better option I even talked about possibly them delaying the tournament you know and but that puts some pressure on on Moxley like okay will you be will you be fine by January can we you know you don't want to put that kind of pressure on anyone but they obviously had something in mind for Moxley but they also something in mind for Cole and

1:17:57 Danielson and Punk and Hangman Page and on and on like you don't want to blow some other storyline that's going well fill this in and so obviously they sacrificed something in this Miro storyline and the cadence and pacing and eventual direction they were going maybe it'll come out at some point maybe Tony will talk about what the idea was that got sidelined or fast-tracked I like this option a lot I don't think that nothing jumps out as a better option to me I mean you know they could have put somebody from earlier rounds back in, I guess. They could have just given Cassidy a bye, but that's not, you know, a great finals.

1:18:37 So I just think this was a really good call. I think it worked. Joel, how about you?

1:18:42 Yeah, I mean, I just think that this was, you know, like I said before, a natural fit for, you know, the story that they have doing for Miro and then, you know, how he's in that God either gave him a gift or, you know, playing with him. And so, I mean, the way I booked it, too, I mean, is I think you could go really either way.

1:19:01 I mean, you could have a Danielson.

1:19:03 Versus presumably, you know, Kenny Omega again, or you could do it against Hangman Page and his first title defense to kind of do a big, you know, just have a really good match. And you could either, you could, you know, probably don't want to wait until Revolution, but make it kind of into a big dynamite or a big rampage.

1:19:19 And I could very well see Miro too.

1:19:21 I mean, it's hard that I don't want to see Miro, you know, exactly get to that point going to the championship match and then losing Miro.

1:19:29 You know, this quickly, but I also think that he could.

1:19:31 Take that loss, you know, and let's say that he faces hangman page. I think that he's able to take that loss, you know, and then go back on a rampage, get mad at God and, you know, just tear through a bunch of other people back on his way up to the top.

1:19:45 Yeah.

1:19:45 If the idea was Miro was going to go heel and, or, or either against hangman or prior to the hangman match, if he was going to beat Danielson, maybe go heel against Danielson. Uh, that's a great money match. And you could afford to have him lose and move on to something else. I mean, I think Moxley is this sort of Teflon in that way. With Miro, you might have a tougher choice. I mean, you don't want to pull the rug out from under Hangman right away, but you could because Hangman, and Eric Rowe wrote about this in the VIP column that we put up earlier today, a special feature on Hangman page, he's a different kind of babyface.

1:20:24 And there is something about when the chase is over, what happens? And it's great to have a strong opponent like Moxley waiting for you if he goes heel. It's great now having a strong opponent like Miro. You know, Sting, when he first won the WHW title, didn't have that line of good opponents. Those of us who were endorsing Sting as champion were left going, okay, but you need to have some good heel opponents for him, and they just didn't afterwards, and it really hurt him. So, You know, Miro's a good, tough opponent, but it might be a little too much too soon. And I'm a big enough fan of what Miro's doing right now. I'm not sure that I want to see him lose to Page. And maybe Miro can beat Page, and then Page goes into

1:21:03 self-doubt again. And they just continue that story. There's risk in doing that, but there's also some reward if you go, all right, he's a former champion, but he only held the title for X amount of time. And he goes on another journey, as long as it doesn't seem to, you know, it's just not a pity party thing. And people just get sick of it, but instead it's like it causes him to change his approach again and fight as an underdog once again.

1:21:27 You know, that could work too. I mean, I'm high enough on Miro.

1:21:30 I'm not ruling out the idea that I don't think he should be champion, you know, by early next year, even if Page wins, you know, in 10 days.

1:21:39 Yeah, I agree too, Owen. And, uh, with hangman being a different kind of baby face, I really think Miro is just an all around different kind of heel. He's really figured out how to play not only the big man, but like just his style of big man. Like, because he's, he's not like, he's not the big show. He's, he's more like just a big guy who can kick some butt, you know? Um, And I'm actually on record of saying that I think Miro is greater than Kenny Omega. I've never really liked Omega that much. And I think it's safe to say that we're headed in that direction. And if it were me, I'd just push Miro to the moon and back. And I like Hangman, too. So I think there's ways to do it without burying Hangman.

1:22:28 Yeah.

1:22:30 But that's all I really wanted to say other than the fact that I do want to point out with Cody, I think he wants to get that Roman Reigns reaction like you said, and then he wants to do the right thing, the right thing that Roman never did, the right thing that John Cena never did, you know, turn heel at the right moment when things are.

1:22:54 The hottest, you know.

1:22:55 So that's just my opinion on what's going to happen there. So that's all I had, and I will listen to you elsewhere.

1:23:04 Thanks, James.

1:23:04 Appreciate it. Yeah, two things I want to throw to you on, Joel. Tough call, tough choice.

1:23:09 You get to keep Miro or Kenny Omega for the next three years. Who do you take and who do you cut?

1:23:16 Wow.

1:23:16 Yeah.

1:23:17 I did, you know, if you were to ask this question just a couple months ago or maybe a year ago, I think that you'd say like Kenny Omega for sure. But I just think that there's so much more to Miro. And I'm not saying that, you know, that we've seen everything with Kenny Omega. I still think that there's a ton of value with him. He's a fantastic wrestler, but as we've seen that he's just not, he's not the same guy in New Japan. And that's, that's what people want to see. And I think that Miro just has so much to offer in a role that we just don't see a whole lot of, you know, in North American wrestling as like the big, like thick wrestler, who's.

1:23:58 Like really good too.

1:24:00 He's not just a klutz, you know, who's, who's just this big muscle up guy who was out there. I just think that Miro, um, you know, has a ton, a ton more to offer that we just haven't even seen yet. So, I mean, it's, it's a tough question. Um, And it's hard to commit either way.

1:24:16 But I'll just say this.

1:24:18 I look forward more to see the next three years of Miro than I would look forward to seeing Kenny Omega.

1:24:29 You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts. You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP on it. Click on that. There's some free samples of VIP shows, and you can unlock the entire VIP lineup, which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial-free versions of the free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on the PWTorch VIP logo. and then activate your three-day free trial. And after that, you can become a VIP member using your Apple account.

1:24:58 It's that easy.

1:24:58 Enjoy a streamlined listening experience to our free shows and unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app. I think you can pick Miro without having to make it sound like you're dogging on Kenny as washed up and he sucks. It can be more of a compliment for Miro. That said, Kenny is making it a little easier than it should be or a little harder than it should be. Whichever side you're on, a little harder to say yes to Kenny or a little easier to say, no, I'll take Miro if you had

1:25:43 to make that choice. But Miro is just a more serious person right now. And he wasn't that long ago. There's part of me that's like, There's a big what if with Kenny. I mean, he just turned 38. Miro's 35. You've got more, you know, Kenny's more beat up than Miro, you know, in terms of his time in the ring and the matches he's had.

1:26:01 There's a durability issue. There's a, is he still hungry?

1:26:05 I think Miro's more hungry than Omega is.

1:26:07 I think Omega is sort of.

1:26:08 Oh, clearly.

1:26:09 Yeah. Omega's like, I'm made.

1:26:12 I'm freaking the six star best bout machine.

1:26:17 I've got my legacy. I've got my hall of fame. I'm good.

1:26:20 You know, now I'm just going to kind of have fun and be self-indulgent and, and, you know, every once in a while show, I still got it, but it's, you know, he's that veteran player on a team that's borderline playoffs in the NBA and Miro's that guy who's just hungry to prove something and win that first ring.

1:26:38 So there's, there's, it's, it's, I'm with you.

1:26:41 I wouldn't, I mean, I was hard on Miro not that long ago and he has come around, but the question is, can Kenny come around? You know, is there going to be criticism that gets to Kenny or, Or, you know, if all of a sudden he moves down the car, does Kenny go, whoa, wait, what? You know, I want to build a legacy here. I just don't sense Kenny cares about his legacy or that he thinks there's anything more to add to a legacy that, in his mind, no one will ever touch, so why should I even act like I need to try? And I think that vibe comes across sometimes. Whatever the psychology of it is, whether it's just he doesn't have a great sense of how to be a top-level act on American television, and he's underperforming, due to bad judgment, or he's just

1:27:20 phoning it in because he thinks he's already done it all.

1:27:23 Miro, boy, that's not like I'm bearing Kenny.

1:27:25 And I think Kenny, I think I say all that with a sense of what if he flips a switch and all of a sudden he's like, oh, I'm going to be great Kenny again.

1:27:32 Like I'm really, I'm feeling healthy.

1:27:35 And I've, I've saw what Miro did going from video games to, to this great character. I want to, I want to, I want to have a run like that. And if he turned it on and flipped that switch and listed it to the right people, it could just be amazing. But I sort of thought, and we got hints that that was going to be what Don Callis was for him.

1:27:53 And it wasn't. And now Don's not around as much.

1:27:55 And so, yeah, I just, I think a safer bet is to go with Miro who's hungry and just doing some great work, but it's an interesting topic. I mean, I'm sure people would strongly disagree who are huge Kenny fans, but you know what Kenny did four years ago in Japan doesn't, make a big difference to the next 500,000 or million people. AW is trying to attract, you know, I mean those, you don't get to coast on something you did four years ago. You've got to show people today why they need to tune in every week to see you. And I guess one of my criticisms of this show, the second to last dynamite before full gear is I just didn't, I don't sense that the world title is being promoted as bigger than other things on

1:28:34 the show. It seems sort of intentional. That was the case with the last pay-per-view too. The world title, and I asked our outside correspondent at the end, did this feel bigger than anything else? And I think you want ultimately your world champion to feel like the biggest deal of everything. And everything else is a notch below it.

1:28:52 And I just don't think Kenny is accomplishing that for whatever reason. You can blame booking, his opponents. other all these new signings stealing some of his thunder uh whatever how whatever excuses slash reasons there are he doesn't seem like the biggest star in the company he just seems like a big star in an ensemble company i roll my dice on different champions until somebody stands out and i think the hype tonight is not serving kenny well like i i just think they need to do more on dynamite and rampage with video features to make sure people know Our world champion is our biggest star. Kenny is our biggest star. And what's at stake is Hangman Page trying to become the biggest star. But what's at

1:29:31 stake if Hangman Page is wrestling to hold a belt but just be another guy on a show with a lot of parody and a lot of people sharing one spotlight? It takes away from the value of the pay-per-view main event.

1:29:43 Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more with that because it's just, you know, Kenny Omega is going to be just such an interesting figure to look back on and look at his career because he's he's still having these phenomenal matches, you know, all the time.

1:29:57 He's having these great.

1:29:58 Matches, but at the same time, he's kind of like one of those guys that we talk about where it's like, you know, they had their career in WWE and then they had their career and then, you know, kind of their after career somewhere else. You know, you talk about like a Booker T, right? He has his career in WWE and that's kind of the after career. And that's, what's so weird about Kenny Omega is that right now in AEW, uh, this does feel like kind of the, you know, the after career that he's kind of done his stuff. He kind of made his fame in new Japan, being on the indie scene where he was really, I mean, you think of 2018, you know, around all in when he wrestled in the United States.

1:30:34 I mean, it was a big deal.

1:30:36 I mean, it was a presented as like, Oh my gosh, Kenny Omega is going to have a huge match in the United States.

1:30:42 Like you got to see that.

1:30:44 And you know, now he's just, like you said, he's part of this ensemble cast where it's just kind of seems like, that they're still kind of floating around, kind of keeping the elite guys, some of the original people, Kenny Omega, Hangman Page, who originally signed with the company, kind of in that title picture. And it really feels like fans want to see more of the Bryan Danielson, the Miro, some of these other guys, Darby Allin, more towards the top of the card versus these other guys that they really have planned around. You know, where it feels like right now, I mean, that Brian Danielson and perhaps even Adam Cole and CM Punk are like kind of the, you know, the biggest stars in the company. And,

1:31:24 you know, that's kind of at the detriment of the AEW championship because it just feels like kind of secondary, like almost old news that, you know, we've seen Kenny Omega. He's been around here for a long time. But just imagine if Bryan Danielson was AEW champion and every title match that he had, I mean, would just be, you know, this awesome spectacle because it's all these guys he hasn't wrestled before.

1:31:47 And what you want is how do you take advantage of Punk, Danielson, and Cole in addition to getting the most out of Omega and Cody and Hangman Page and now Miro and And you've still got, you know, MGS out there touting the pillars, you know, the name, you know, the equivalent of the AEW originals, you know, the Rude and Storm and Danielson and Joe and AJ. That group, it's a good place to be in if you're Tony Khan.

1:32:24 And I get having Cole lay low and be part of something different until it's time for him to step up and go, I want that world title. I think it's good to have Punk you know, I think it's deliberate they put him in a storyline where he seems cooler.

1:32:35 Colder, cooler, not.

1:32:39 Hip, cooler, I don't know, than you want him to be because it's not his time yet. And you don't want to burn him out too quick. So he's coming up with these kind of sidebar, sidetrack storylines until it's time for Cole to go, I am the best and I want to prove it against you, hang my page. And you go with it. So yeah, I mean, he's got to time this stuff all out. And it's sort of, you know, Tony Khan might say it's baked in. You're going to be disappointed that I'm not doing more with these guys because there's only so much I can do. And, you know, in one breath, you're telling me do more.

1:33:08 And in the next breath, you're saying Kenny doesn't stand out enough. And I would counter that if I'm going to make up a strongman argument to then knock down. I would say, make sure whoever your champion is feels like the biggest deal, no matter what, and put more into that, whoever they are, whenever, who's, who has ever turned it is right now. And I just don't think that Kenny's doing that, but I mean, They're all going to have their time. It's going to be a really fun year or two of AEW if almost everybody stays healthy and active. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell

1:33:46 you more.

1:33:47 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

1:34:00 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling life every week, so why not let him?

1:34:04 GoVIP.

1:34:05 PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Speaking of Merrill, let me read this email from Chris B.

1:34:32 In Long Island.

1:34:33 He says, Wade, Merrill's promo tonight was simply perfect yet again. I'm not sure what they were originally building to, but the in-ring payoff tonight that set the table for full gear was probably one of the best storyline audibles I've seen, especially on the fly.

1:34:47 I wanted to get your thoughts, and everyone go VIP.

1:34:50 Thanks, Chris.

1:34:50 I'm just plucking an email out here to show other people are thinking, we're thinking about Merrill, and if they go with Merrill... and he wins, if he wins, if he beats Brian, and then he goes on to beat Hangman Page, and they tell the storyline of Hangman got to the top, but couldn't stay there, and there's a whole dramatic storyline there, then Miro should be the centerpiece.

1:35:07 He should be the front center.

1:35:08 Guy in the opening theme for the show, and announcers should talk more about him. Other wrestlers should, you know, like when Dusty was Booker in Jim Cracker promotions, other wrestlers would mention Dusty, you know, often, you know, more talk about the champion, whoever it is, and if it's Miro, go all in. Don't make it seem like you're hedging or it's just, he happens to be one of our ensemble of top guys with a belt, like make it about him. Cause that makes the stakes feel higher.

1:35:33 Okay.

1:35:34 Go, go ahead, Joe.

1:35:35 Yeah, no, I'll just go off of what you said is that that's what they really need to work on is making that AEW championship feel like it is the top priority, you know, and that, and that's one of the things that really hurts Cody is because he has said that he's not going to challenge for that championship.

1:35:51 And so it's kind of like, you know, what is his mission?

1:35:54 Why is he here?

1:35:55 Is he just here to entertain us and have matches because you have to have a goal, you know, there has to be an ultimate destination that you're working towards. And I just feel that the championship at this point has really, um, has fallen in stature just because of, you know, the, the way that Kenny Omega has presented himself, the way that he has been presented and, You know, I thought I felt that the last championship match they had on pay-per-view was weaker, you know, having Christian Cage involved with that, you know, and so I just feel that there's some rehab to do with it. And I think that by making Heyman Page the champion, you know, it could be a step in that right direction, you know,

1:36:34 presented on how he or contingent on how he's presented. But, you know, like you said, if it's Miro then who comes in and beats him, that I want Miro or whomever that is, to be treated as the number one star because that's what they need to get back to because right now it is just the ensemble. It is just, you know, a bunch of stars on the show having really good matches where I think that when AEW is at its best is when there is a clear goal and that goal is going for the championship.

1:37:03 Zach in Texas says, I know we said it before, but it bears repeating. The promos in AEW are still superior to WWE.

1:37:09 It's not funny.

1:37:10 With that out of the way, the rest of this email says, will be a Paige Van Zandt appreciation piece. If anyone has come out of this inner circle American top team feud, a star, it's her. She's got natural heel mannerisms, and she showed tonight that she's got natural heel mic skills too. She's more natural on the mic than Ronda Rousey ever was. We just need to see what she's got in the ring. AEW can't pass this opportunity up. Put her in there with Layla Hirsch and give them 10 minutes.

1:37:36 Let's see.

1:37:39 Joe, your thoughts on what Paige has done so far and that she is being noticed at a time when she wasn't intended to be noticed, if that makes sense. She's just jumping on the screen, even though there's a lot of other people on the screen, including, by the way, the most winning heavyweight in UFC history, Junior Dos Santos, who's headlined major pay-per-views on pay-per-view and national television, and larger-than-life personalities.

1:38:05 And yet, here she is. She's the one who the buzz is about.

1:38:09 Yeah, it's amazing that they have, you know, JDS and Arlovsky, and they're just kind of, you know, in the background, almost just kind of observing this segment as it's unfolding in front of them. And Paige Van Zandt, you know, is, of course, we don't know how she's going to be in the ring um or if she's going to wrestle at all or how that's all going to evolve but um you know she has just really found a niche for her you know as Todd has laid out before um that you know she didn't have a super successful run in the UFC she's a legit fighter and but she's.

1:38:44 Been trying to find kind of her way.

1:38:46 And I think that pro wrestling, you know, really could be something for her. She, you know, she has, she's shown more of a personality than I think a lot of the AEW women's roster has at this, at this point. And so I'd like to see more of her kind of develop and, you know, kind of be more of.

1:39:04 A piece there.

1:39:05 I I'm curious to see, you know, how much they do utilize American top team, you know, past this feud, if it's just kind of, you know, this one thing and Dan Lambert, just kind of going to stick around, but we don't really see much of the rest of the crew with them, or if it does become.

1:39:18 More of a staple.

1:39:19 And I think that, you know, in that scenario, you could really have page fans and, you know, be someone who's kind of regular part of that stable. And also if she does become a regular wrestler, that she could be another, you know, really good addition to the roster.

1:39:33 All right.

1:39:34 Let's read another email here. Ted or Tad from Columbia. I just screwed that. Well, It's not Ted from Columbia. It is Tad from Columbus. I'm going to start over. Let's go to our next email. Tad from Columbus says, open to start a conversation on MGF and Darby. I really like this segment. I thought MGF's usual good promo was enhanced by some unique camera work and Darby got a great spot over the rail to end it. This really might be a hell of a few to follow over the years. I can see these two doing some compelling stuff.

1:40:02 Your thoughts?

1:40:03 Yeah, I think this deserves a little more attention than we've given it. I really like this MGF promo. By the way, Dan Lambert and MJF have both cut out things they were doing that I wasn't sure that were adding to the promos. Lambert has focused his criticism on the baby faces instead of the company. It's not, oh, this company is full of flippy flop guys. It's Sammy Guevara, you're short. And, you know, it's like it's personal. It's directed at the baby faces. And I think we reached the point where Dan Lambert has gone from just the the spoof on critics of the Young Bucks and AEW in general and things said behind the scenes in WWE or on certain podcasts. And he's now just become a good foe for the inner circle. So I like that.

1:40:51 And MJF has pulled back the last two weeks, I think is right, on the ultra-personal shock comments. Oh, my God, I can't believe he said that. Did they allow him to say that? Was he supposed to say that? I can't believe anyone would say it. He doesn't need that. He's too talented to have to go there. Some people kind of have to do that in order to get over.

1:41:15 Tonight's promo was my enter in evidence. He doesn't need to go there to be excellent, top tier on the mic. And one detail that I really like that MGF is putting into his promos is I'm not just the insult machine. I'm not just cocky.

1:41:31 I am good. In fact, I'm great. In fact, nobody's ever beat me.

1:41:37 It's important that he doesn't come across because he's not Miro's size. He doesn't have the world title history in WWE. There's all these big signings. I think it's super high IQ for him to be making sure in his promos he's talking about his credibility in the ring. Even when he's running from Darby and taking great bumps from Darby, and retreating after talking big. He's got to show or he's got to tell people and remind people that he delivers in the ring also and he can be champion and he intends.

1:42:10 To be champion.

1:42:11 He's not ceding any ground at all to the new people coming in. And I think, yes, the segment tonight on a specific level is really good. But in general, I think he's hitting the right beats and it's really smart. And I think he's a really smart heel in this business for the modern era. who's adjusting as he goes and and getting better he also wasn't over modulating on the mic even if the crowd heat maybe it's because the crowd heat wasn't as loud because it's a smaller building I don't think that's the case I think he just decided to stop yelling and I'm also a fan of not yelling as people who hear me know um I don't think that serves wrestlers uh well I've been critical of it when Dolph Ziggler did it and Samoa

1:42:49 Joe frothing and yelling I was just like I'm not a fan of it MJF was doing it and this one didn't have that either I don't think so lots of good here and then the cutaways to Darby and what Darby said, and then charging at MJF. This segment, I mean, deserves absolute spotlight of some praise.

1:43:07 Yeah, I mean, everything that you said about MJF, and that's one of the things I really appreciate about Dan Lambert.

1:43:12 As it's gone on, is it's become less about the fans.

1:43:16 I mean, I'm so tired of hearing heels cutting promos on the fans. I'm done with it.

1:43:21 Um, but MJF, I mean, just, this was all about how he wants to beat Darby Allen because he is just that good. And I mean, there, there's just nothing better than, than hearing a type of promo like that, other than just thrown out insults and, and personal insults talking about Darby's past. It was more about the match and how he wants to prove that he's good. And it made the outcome of the match really matter because you wanted to see, you really want to see like, man, if MJF wins this, the man, what he's saying is true.

1:43:52 And he's going to continue moving up the ladder. But at the same time, you want to see where Darby Allen's going. And so I think that because he's talked about the pillars and kind of, you know, who's going to be better than who has added a lot to that match, but also just the way that Darby Allen responded to that. And there's just a great shot. Um, when Darby Allen is kind of walking through the crowd before he, um, you know, attacks, uh, MJF over the barricade and he's just like in his eyes and he rolls his eyes to the back of his head, but it's like, man, this guy is just serious.

1:44:24 He's living in the moment.

1:44:25 You know, it's like when you, when people talk about certain wrestlers, like Terry Funk is like getting into this moment, he is living, breathing this character, not just a guy playing somebody, but I mean, that's what you really feel when you see Darby Allin, is that he is just living in that moment, and you feed off of that energy that he has.

1:44:46 You know that last segment you're just listening to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app. With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of.

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1:45:35 Absolutely. Absolutely.

1:45:37 Joel, is there anything else you want to bring up from Dynamite tonight that we didn't cover or any follow up on anything else?

1:45:42 Let me see.

1:45:43 Yeah, I did want to say that Samurai Del Sol, the former Kalisto from WWE. I mean, it's just amazing that, you know, again, we see a guy who gets out from WWE and you forget how freaking talented he is. You know, he was just doing really cool stuff in there with Aerostar as well. And so I really hope that that's for him. You know, that he can get away from some of the WWE stink, getting away from the name, getting away from that mask, and just kind of showing off that he's also, you know, another really good Lucha.

1:46:15 Guy out there.

1:46:17 Did you watch the FTR promo that came out this week?

1:46:20 It was on AW Dark last night, but also on social media, where they were sitting on Dax's front porch and set the parameters for tonight's match.

1:46:31 I did not, no.

1:46:32 So.

1:46:34 I have to go rewatch it because I thought they ruled out wrestling luchadors. They said no luchadors. So I was confused by that. So maybe somebody can explain. Maybe I missed the point. Or did they change their mind? Because they called it the Fresh Meat Open Challenge. And they said, bring us a legend or an up-and-comer, but not gymnastics and cartoons.

1:46:54 No luchadors.

1:46:56 Wednesday night, you're coming to our territory for our championships. Expect wrestling and a fight. We are the greatest luchadors of all time. I guess my interpretation of that was they were saying it's an open challenge, but no luchadors in masks, and that's exactly what they got, are luchadors in a mask. So I was just seeing if you watched it and got a different impression than I did.

1:47:16 I was either confused or I wasn't, and they changed their mind.

1:47:19 So I'll try to figure that out and clarify it.

1:47:21 Yeah, yeah.

1:47:22 No, I haven't seen that. I will definitely check that out. But You know, it makes me wonder because I don't know. I think that this was a pretty, you know, last minute one that they announced. I think they just announced this match today. So I don't know if it was a last minute call or, you know, what was in the plans for it. Yep.

1:47:38 Sounds good. Well, Joel, tell people how they can follow you on social media. Read your work on PWTorch.com. Anything else you want to bring up?

1:47:46 Yeah, so you guys can follow me on Twitter. My Twitter handle is just my name. It's at Joel Denell. That's J-O-E-L-D-E-H-N-E-L. And then you can also read my Hits and Misses columns, which will come out later this week, where I talk about the major segments from AEW Dynamite and just give my honest opinion. Did I think that the segment worked or didn't I think it worked? And kind of give where I think that some of the storylines are going.

1:48:12 You know, and some of the things.

1:48:13 That they could do better, some of the stuff that didn't work.

1:48:15 So please check those out later this week at PW20.

1:48:21 Awesome. Thank you, Joel.

1:48:23 Everybody, you can follow me on Twitter at TheWadeKeller, and you can follow our brand at PWTorch. That's at TheWadeKeller and at PWTorch.com. And GoVIP, you can check out the new series I just started on Monday this week. We'll do this through November and then reassess. It is called Keller's Focus on AEW, a daily podcast focused entirely and exclusively on the latest happenings in AEW. It's been a blast so far, and the feedback on Twitter and via email has been fantastic. Um, and it's a big month with AW coming into town here, uh, to Minneapolis. Uh, Jim Ross mentioned the twin cities multiple times on the show tonight. I, Joel, I'm not going to rub it in.

1:49:10 You can plug yours if you want.

1:49:11 Cause I know very unfortunately you have to, you have a work obligation out of town when AW finally comes to town. Uh, but yes, but they'll, they'll come back if, if we can just sell a few more tickets.

1:49:23 Um, and that's what i've been hoping for.

1:49:26 This whole time yeah i haven't checked.

1:49:28 Out sell out instantly and they'll go man what a great place to come.

1:49:31 Now i cringe a little when they say you know excalibur goes and there's still seats available like ah you know um and i know this was not their first choice and they have a lot a lot of metrics for you know where they go and why and when and i think wasn't at st louis they're supposed to do and then um yeah they got bumped due to some scheduling stuff so and st louis wasn't available this weekend so We knew we were their second choice, and therefore we're treating them like our second choice.

1:50:00 I don't know. It'll be a nice film. But anyway, my point is– no, I lost my point. What was I talking about?

1:50:06 Oh, my AEW dedicated podcast, Keller's Focus on AEW. So with them coming to town, it's not going to be a good time to kind of immerse myself and immerse our coverage with a focus on AEW for a full month. So, I mean, the goal is to do almost every day an AW-based podcast somewhere in the 8 to 28-minute range.

1:50:26 We'll see how it works out just depending on the news of the day and what there is to talk about. But if you're a big AW fan and you just want to have that daily dose of focused AW content, you don't want it mixed in with a bunch of other stuff, this is it. This is time to go VIP. PWTorch.com slash go VIP. That is PWTorch.com. slash go vip and you can also sign up on patreon support us on patreon and at the uh second tier and higher um those podcasts are also available you can catch up on the first three days and uh and go from there patreon.com slash pw torch vip uh joel thank you as always.

1:51:10 Yeah thank you wade if we if we don't talk to each other before then enjoy your first aew live event I will.

1:51:17 Be thinking of you not being there all weekend. Thanks, Joel.

1:51:25 Well, we'll see each other.

1:51:26 Are you going to Raw on December 13th?

1:51:29 Yeah, that's the plan. All right.

1:51:32 Well, I'll say hello to you then.

1:51:34 Cool.

1:51:34 Thanks, Joel. Thanks, everybody. We'll talk to you next time.

1:52:13 Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial-free. A nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on a commercial-free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups of shows by theme and also unlock nearly four decades of archives and access our ad-free website with VIP exclusive content. pwtorch.com slash govip. Your time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip. You can participate in the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast by emailing your question or topic to wadekellerpodcast at gmail.com. You can also participate in the Wade Keller Post Shows by emailing wadekellerpostshow at gmail.com

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1:53:52 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

1:54:06 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling life every week, so... Why not let him?

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1:55:48 Much for listening.

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