Not So Desperate Housewife with Tamra Judge (S1 E16 "Ladies Who Lunch")

Welcome to desperately devoted.

Think of us as your favorite neighbors as we chat about life and relationships, all.

While we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.

I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen, and I'm Emerson Tani.

This is episode sixteen, The Ladies Who Lunch.

Which is of course another Sondheim reference. We have to talk about the amazing elaen Stretch who made this song famous, just because we have to give her her due. And I'm obsessed with Company the musical, which is what this is from.

I also am Obsessed with Company and episode sixteen aired on March twenty seventh, two thousand and five, and I think The Ladies Who Lunch is a very apt name for things that we are going to get into in this episode.

Okay, I just love being able to say that.

Today we are joined by Tamra Judge, the longest running housewife of the Bravo Real Housewives franchise, and she has kindly agreed to dive into this episode with us, which is just so fun.

And we get to discuss the crossover between our two shows, and there's a lot more to discuss than maybe we even realized about that connection right off the bat. I mean, I think, if not. The first line of the episode of Mary Alice's is good news travels fast. Bad news moves quite a bit faster. And I feel like that's that that actually just gave me the show. Yeah, is because like we as a society, we obviously love gossip and we love that's the promise of our show, right, bad news travels fast, and unfortunately and and and fortunately for the show's sake, With social media, people know things instantly, right instantly, something happens, you're getting sued, your husband cheats, whatever it hits, and it spreads like wildfire.

Yea, well, I feel like this is the perfect place to dive into recapping our episode sixteen, because a lot happens in this episode, starting with the scandal of Maze Gibbons getting arrested.

For solicitation in her lingerie.

Yes, news that travels very fast across with Steria Lane. We also have Gabrielle and Carlos. They have their sewer system go out.

I love the washing the clothes and the jacuzzie. Yes, I thought, oh that's smart.

Okay, can I tell you this actually happened, not the jacuzzi washing, which I agree is very is very smart. But so I when my daughter went off to college, I have at the house that we she grew up in, and that's my main house that I've lived in for over two decades. And then I a long time ago bought a like a loft in another part of town that was sort of a pied terre, you know, for all those affairs that I didn't have because I wasn't married, so I couldn't have an affair. But anyway, it was for my other, my my other personality.

You took a very young bartender once, I did.

I did. I did have sex with a very young bartender in the have sex with me because.

I was in college.

Was there, Oh my god?

Could you imagine?

I was in college and I was in on the East coast, so I was three hours ahead. And I called my mom at probably it was like nine am or ten am my time, three hours earlier in LA And I called her at the loft and she answered the phone and she answered it like this, hello, And I said, Hi, are you okay? And she was like, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. There's just there's someone here there's someone here. And I was like, what do you mean there's someone here? Did someone break in? Like you know, you call the police, like.

What you thought it was? There's no chance that it's a guy.

There's no chance your mom is having sex.

I thought she was being like held up at gunpoint. And she was like, no, no, no, no, there's just there's a there's a guy. There's the bartender from next door is here. And I'm like, on purpose? Did he break in? And and then later I found out she called me back and you'd taken him home.

He had sex basically all night long, as a young bartender will do with you. That's the only young person I've ever had intimate relationships.

So was he like twenty five?

I think he was twenty seven, and I think I was probably fifty two or something like that. I don't know. It was a while ago.

But for you, he served it straight up all night long.

Yeah pretty much? Yeah.

Oh wow, that should.

Be on a certain shirt. Straight up all night long.

No, I haven't had a prostitution situation.

I gotta fish myself story. Oh oh yea. So anyways, so I was living in this loft because I felt like my house was too big. When my daughter was off at college and I got the opportunity to rent my house out for a lot of money on a monthly basis to somebody whose own house was under construction. This person happened to have an Emmy award, which they sat on my piano, like I have a grand piano, like when you walk in my house, you see it up to the left, And they had an Emmy Award up on my piano, which I was like, oh, could you just leave that bar out place?

But I'll switch it out. I'll sw to the name.

They are newly in there. And I got a call for one day and and and he was saying there's sewage like backing up in the bathroom, Like, uh, you know, what what should we do? And so I called a bunch of you know, emergency weekend people, but I didn't want them to be over there, so I ran, you know, drove over there as fasts I could. And I'm on my hands and knees like in in the bathroom like mopping up sewage and you know, like cleaning it all up and getting it all like just cleaned up, bleaching everything and getting the whole thing solved. And then then the guy finally comes and like does the whole draining or snaking whatever they have to do. But this guy who's famous himself, he said, I think my favorite part

of renting your house is that I get to tell people forever that Terry Hatchett was cleaning up sewage.

But this is so your character Desperate Housewives.

I mean, it's taken me back to you behind the couch trying to get the VHS tape and behind the cushion, and you're back there like, oh.

My god, So that's that's my sewage story. But you were saying you have a prostitution story, which sounds.

We haven't really had like a nobody like arrested for prostitution. But on Jersey they somebody was called a prostitution whore right season one. I think, yeah, yeah, that's flipping the table. Yeah, we'll be kind of flipping the table.

This seems obvious to ask, and anyone feel free to answer this, But with Mazy Gibbons getting arrested for solicitation, have you ever experienced a neighborhood scandal that ripped through the neighborhood like this. I'm seeing like all the split screens in this episode as the phones are ringing, yeahs traveling?

No, honestly not in your real life.

No, not No, been in the same house.

I feel like in my neighborhood, I think the worst thing that's happened is people have fought over their fence line, Like that's happened.

Like which side belongs to whom?

Yeah, I like trees getting cut down that shouldn't, That's pretty typical.

Always have that neighbor.

That's sort of like one neighbor making doing very loud construction that that's annoying, like that kind of stuff. But nobody's like sleeping with the other person's gardener.

Not that I'm aware of, but I felt.

Like this subject matter of this storyline with Maize Gibbons, like did bring up for me, and I wondered if anybody had an opinion on this of just like I feel like there's some hypocrisy around the judgment of paying for sex and like the exchange of oh, you took me to dinner or a nice weekend getaway, so I must have sex with you or you know, is only fans of judgmental Like I almost feel like I feel like I want women to be empowered and if women feel good about charging people for sex, then maybe they should, you know, like like I'm not totally sure that the.

Same same, but I do what makes you happy as long as it's legal. I mean, obviously prostitute, I don't think it's legal, but currently Vegas, I don't know. But I mean, if that's what you want to do and you're not hurting anybody, I don't care.

Yeah, I mean, it's very strange, especially because there's such a duality for women historically with it being you know, there's so much shame around sex and what it is, but then there was for so long. I mean, it wasn't it like I think I recently heard that it wasn't until nineteen ninety three where the term marital rape was like not it wasn't considered rape if you were married, and that was up until nineteen ninety three.

You know.

Like, so this idea of it being a power position something where you can offer a service that you can provide someone it's.

My vagina and I can do what I want.

With you and.

Shirt it's my vagina and I can do that's like that's a podcast, you know, so I mean with only fans look at that and it's really blown up and people are making a ton of money. I mean there's housewives like Larsa Pippen and Miami. She talks about how much tons of money she makes doing only fans.

And I've never there because it's only for the fans. That's why I haven't seen it.

Right, But I mean, I've heard of it, but I don't know. But it's like it's it's it's it can be a bunch of anything.

It doesn't necessarily only exist in the space of sex work or things like that, but it can be which is what is it mostly like sexual?

Like?

I don't know.

Basically, I haven't spent any time on it either, but I.

What do you do on your only fans.

I'm not making nearly enough money to have an only fans, but I do know some people who have only fans, Okay, I say my friends who do. It is really like a content curation platform where they are completely in control of making whatever content they want, and then their subscribers pay to see their videos. Those are the only fans.

They're the only people who can see those videos.

How can people not screenshot it and send it to other people? Though?

Well, I see I'm sure that there is a loophole, but I think a lot of the people I know are not making content with nudity or porn or no. I think some people are making content that is like this is my morning routine and like this is my health whatever. Now, some friends I know who will like wear kind of sexy lingerie while they're like talk about cleaning their house and that I'm sure someone has a kink for I think for sure the empowering thing about OnlyFans is you are the person in control of setting a line of what you want to share or not share about yourself in a sexual or not sexual content.

So the safer exclusive it's paying for the idea of I get to see something that others don't, which honestly also ties into this episode because I know we were talking a little bit about the feeling of country clubs. Oh my not paying for exclusivity, right, you're paying to be a part of And I'm sure you were.

A country clubs.

I was when I lived in Coto, but we don't have one where we're at right now. So we've had our house for Eddie's had it for twenty years, and then we rented it out and then we moved to Coda Dekaza and we were there for a couple of years and then we went back to our.

House country clubs. Yeah or nay, Like what are our feelings?

It feels to me I have a judgment of an elitist, judgmental the way we're seeing Rex Andbury being judged by.

Their country club turning on them.

But I also want to hold space for the fact that there could be positives.

I think I'm not a member of one. I've always sort of had a fantasy about getting to be part of the Teluca Lake golf Course. I don't know that it's a country club, but it is a golf course that I would like to play on and be a member at so that I could play more. And I think you have to like know someone, So if anybody's out there, I would like to send you an application.

I know when I moved to Koto and we joined the country club, and I was probably eleven years into the show when we did this, I felt like I made it.

I was like the fact that you could to join I could, Yeah.

I could afford to join this country club, and I was like, wow.

Like I made it.

I made it. And then after a while, it was very boring because I really don't like leaving my house very often. I don't even and I don't really like socializing, and I don't like getting dressed up and all those things.

So it was like we're sort of bonding over that I do like, I do like socializing, actually, but I don't really in your house. Yeah, I was going to.

Say, I think now, I've never been a member of a country club. I certainly didn't grow up in any sort of community where there was one, Like it's a it's to me. It exists on TV or in movies, right, But I think I fall into the NACAM only from and you kind of mentioned this, but I think I'd get bored. I think I would get bored seeing the same people all the time and have eating meals in the same place and doing all of my socializing in one space.

When I first moved to la in nineteen eighty five, I didn't come here with money or you know. I mean, that wasn't my thing. And there were two things that stand out for me. One was I was immediately friends with my next door neighbor, who was an up and coming comedian, and we used to say to each other. Okay, whoever gets like the first TV show like first has to take the other one to McDonald's in a limo like a drive group. That's how we'll know that we made it, made it. And then he was always for we're still friends, but he always was mad because like then I got like I got the love Boat, and then I got like mcgiver, and then I got you know whatever. I was getting little jobs and I never took any in the limo because I didn't perceive, you

to myself that it was a big enough job. Like I My first job that I would have perceived was McDonald's drive through limo. Worthy was Lewis and Clark.

Oh wow.

It wasn't until then. And I did a lot of movies and jobs before them, but it wasn't until then that I was like, Okay. And my other thing that I still haven't done for myself is I always said, if I ever had enough money, I would buy box seats to Hollywood Bowl. You need to do and I and it's still so that's my version of the country club.

You should definitely do that.

Yeah, I should do that.

Have you ever had an experience where you have been publicly humiliated.

I feel like you have on your show, I mean not to put you on the spot. Was there was there? This does go back to like what's been the hardest moments or whatever? Is there one like I think in the in the Housewives stuff that I've watched, which is not a lot, but the one that stands out for me is when Lisa Rinna through the wine glass in the Yes Yes, Is there a version of as I wereson saying like that something like that from your show that either was very humiliating or also that you just feel like it's so hard you haven't been able?

Girl?

How long is this podcast?

You go?

For?

Go ahead? So I threw.

Wine and Gina chio space one year because I was going through my divorce and she kept interfering and putting things in the press, and then she would be supportive of my ex because she was always supportive of the underdog, always no matter who they were, and I just had had it. So I threw wine in her face. That was not great, but I did go home and I didn't took a makeup off, and I fluffed myself up and I called Eddie and I said, can you please?

He would never spend the night when the kids were over because we were just dating and I said I might get arrested tonight, so I just want you to come over in case I get arrested that I don't want them to take my kids away. Oh wow, I'm like, I want to have a very nice Mugshi, I like, lift my hair up on my pillow. I go if I get arrested.

Have you you've never been arrested? No, no, no. I pride myself on that.

Yeah, but it's a totally fair question.

In the housewives.

We've had that have gone to jail.

Yes, well there's some in jail right now. There's some that just got a jail. We had two housewives on my cast that have gotten arrested.

Yeah, out of that is.

Something I'm very proud and I don't want to and I'm gonna knock on wood. I'm blaming you, but you to bail me out.

Okay.

Well, speaking speaking of being arrested, being publicly humiliated, how you show up for your friends in this moment. Another big I think theme in this episode is Susan is going through her heartbreak with Mike and Edie shows up to try to be a friend to Susan simultaneously. We know we have Breed trying to be a friend to Mazie and both Lynette says to Edie and Mazie says to Brie, you know you haven't really been a true friend.

Wait wait, I have this line written down. This is what she said. But if you want to be a supportive friend, but you just can't stand to listen to people bitch.

Ah, Yeah, that's what Edie said.

That's what Edie says.

Yeah, I think that is good. I mean she talks about that. Okay, there's so much Wait.

Why did you pull that line up?

Because it just resonated with me on the show, Like, you want to be a support You're in this group of friends, are you friends with all of them? No, you're not. You want to be supportive, But I'm so tired of hearing you bitch. You are bitching about the same thing be bitching about for the last three seasons.

I'm tired of being supportive. Like you know, it's just kind of like you're doing it to yourself.

You are a little bit, Edie. I mean you definitely right, a little bit Eadie.

I'm listening and I'm like Edie would have been a great real housewife. Oh god, I mean maybe.

Yes, just because with like one of her one liners like that, I'm like, I would totally say that, but.

This is such a great scene for you.

And I'm curious what kind of if you're like, okay, I don't want to hear my friend's bitch, what kind of displays of friendship do mean the most to you? You know, how do you feel like, especially in a time of heartbreaker, time of hardship, what is the kind of support that you look for from your friends.

Are you talking on housewives or are you okay? Real life? I was just being there for your friends, supporting, checking in on your friends, And I think that means so much to me to just check, like how are you doing? If I have a friend that's going through something, you know, like Teddy, She's going through cancer right now, it's like, how are you doing today?

You guys are really friends in real life?

Yes?

Yes, yes. So she was on Beverly Hills for a few years and then we both got let go around the same time. I was on Orange County and she's on Beverly Hills and she was doing an other podcast and they wanted to do iHeart wanted to do a housewife recap, and she said, well, I would like Tamra to be my co host in iHeart. Whoever she was talking to you said, I don't think she's going to be interested in it, And so I'm like, yeah, because I knew Teddy, and I'm like, yes, let's do that.

And we are so alike and so different at the same time. It's so weird and just so bonded and so like when I started this season, she was diagnosed like two weeks in, so it was very, very difficult. But just to you know, to let her know that I'm there if you ever need anything. You know, she lives in Encino, I'm in Orange County. It could be a three hour drive. Yeah, I would just let me know.

I'll drop everything, I'll be there for you.

That's really nice.

Yeah, I feel like you're that kind of friend to a lot of people in your.

I feel like I am that kind of friend. But most of my friends are not in the public eye. Do you have said good friends and how does that work with your good friends like that? No, some real side of you and what did they think when they see you on the show, and how you're portrayed.

I have to keep my mom out of the comment section of Instagram. She learned her lesson. But yeah, so my real friends that I've known, I have friends for like, you know.

Forty years.

Yeah, and they're like, I hate this. I hate when they portray you this way or this happens, and I just want to get on there and say like, she's not like that. Even housewives from other franchises. I'm very very close Dolores from Jersey and Derinda, she they get so heated. They will call me after episodes and they're like, that was so wrong, Like you are the most loyal friend, and you know, loyalty to me is everything. But then I'm labeled on the show as like, oh, she can't keep a friend. It's very very difficult to keep a friend on this show because what is it all about?

Calling people out? And that's what we do.

Yeah, I think I relate. I would say that my friendships in my life that I have a lot. I've been so lucky to have so many really long standing friendships, and I would say that I think that the love language idea that exists in romantic relationships certainly applies in your friendships as well, and I would say similarly like quality time and words of affirmation are probably the big ones for me to provide in my friendships as well as what I love to receive.

I had a thing happened the other day. I'll just quickly share it. So I take care of my nine year old parents. My dad has dementia, and I actually moved them up from Laguna because of that three hour drive you're talking about, and I just couldn't. I knew it wasn't sustainable. So I moved them into a house closer right up the street from me. And so I was.

I actually volunteer at Children's hospital with my dog, where a dog therapy team, and I was on my way home from that and I had told my parents, I'm going to pick you up with the dog, who they love, and we're going to go to Laurel Tavern, Ventura and have you know, Hamburgers. And while I was in that process, my girlfriend called me and she said, oh, do you want to have dinner tonight? And I was like, actually, I'm not ready to pick my parents up, but you could join us. So she joined us. So we're all there with the dog, you know, on the ground and we're eating our food and having a great time. And then as the way it kind of goes with dementia and old people, like, it was just instantaneous that my

I was like, how are you doing?

Dad?

And he's like, I have to go, and I was like, okay, we'll just we'll get in the car, and so like everything becomes like, get the valet, get the think, get the parents in the car, make sure everybody's safe, and it all just like happened. So and I'm driving home and I get them home, I get my dad settled.

All that happens, and I'm going back to my house and my friend calls me and she's like, did you get them home? It's everything okay? And I said yeah, and I go, oh, I left without paying the bill. Oh I let you know, how you leave your credit card at the bar, like and and it's and you're running a tab. I just blew out of there. I left my credit card. I didn't pay.

They had your credit card, Yeah.

They did in my credit card. And I was like, oh my god, I'm so tired. Okay, I guess I have to go back down there. And she's like, I just left. I'll just turn around and go get the card, which is totally not true. She was like halfway to her house, she turned around, she got the card, she drove it over.

I just did something similar from Orange County to La Wow with my friend, well, a friend of Teddy's cell phone.

Oh.

We took Teddy out for her birthday and I drove Teddy back home with her friend and she left her cell phone in the car. In the car and I even got out and I'm looking at them like, it's not in here. I don't see it. So they're okay. So I drive and they're like, she calls me, it has to be in there, and I said, let me pull on the freeway halfway home, pulled over and I'm like, sure enough, it was under my seat. Oh so I'm like, don't worry, just let's go meet somewhere. I said, like, you know, forty minutes, I said, waited for her, gave her cell phone.

Oh yeah, yeah, those little moments.

Friends are the best, and they really they pull us through so much. And I love I mean, just staying with the Edie and Susan in this episode their Little Girl's Trip, when Susan is cleaning out her house and she is Louise, help us God.

Susan's house is full of sho.

I mean the hat.

I know.

What a big fan. You are so nice And.

Edie pulls her out to the bar, and it made me think, when you have had we've all had our heartbrokens.

I'm sure at some point, what do you need in heartbreak?

Like? What do you look for? What do you are you the go out kind of girl? Are you staying and cry?

Are you alone?

Do you want company?

Have you done both? What works better?

So for me not drinking? I think that makes things worse for everything anyways, and I internalize everything. I make it worse for myself. I just close down, completely, shut down, can't do anything, just sad and I just have to go through it. And then I wake up the next morning and said, Okay, I'm not doing this anymore. Right, I'm not doing this anymore.

Like a window of time like your wounds and to be a martyr in the.

Okay, yeah.

And then I'm like, I can't do this, Yeah, I can't. Like after the reunion, for like, I sat there for like two days in the same close and I was just like so emotionally drained and upset. And then I'm like, Okay, that's enough. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get back out there. Yeah, get to the gym. Wow. But I shut down and feel like you.

When you're going through a rough time, would you rather stay? I mean, I I feel like I know the answer to this, but maybe.

I will be interested in both of your perspectives on me. I think I know what you're going to say, but I have been really consciously and circling back to what you were saying about beginning to go to therapy to have tools to react differently, and that leads you to like a happier place. I think that's amazing, and I think we all can learn from the sort of bravery of admitting to reinventing yourself is a good idea. I've been using this phrase of constructive refueling like that. I don't think I'm very good at that. When I like, I feel like I do destruct destructive refueling, which falls into the I'm going to eat a bag of potato chips, I'm going to watch eight hours of television in a row.

I'm going to have yes. Yeah, well but okay, okay, but it's also okay if you're telling me it's okay if you're in a good space. I love being in my bed. I just bought a new comforter by Doze. By the way, we're not they're not like our brand, but they should. I am telling you. I got in it and I was like, what, I'm never getting out, Like, oh my gosh, it was so good. We need a contract, yes, sponsors.

But it's okay if you if you're not like depressed. So I have no problem with being in bed for a conscious day of reading or watching TV. But this is like, I need to get better at You keep saying exercise, and I agree with you. You know, go for a walk, call a friend, get out in nature, do an ice bath. That's one of the things for me.

But like, so you know, listen to music. These are all what I would call, you know, constructive refueling from that time. But to answer your question, I mean, I think about the last time I really got my heart broken, I mean, like really badly, which is a long time ago, but I can remember that pretty well, and I feel like there's a lot of crying and a lot of staying by myself, to the point where my close friends will say, if you don't at least send up smoke signals.

We're like, we're we're coming over there, Like you've got to answer somebody's text. Is that what you guys would say about me?

I would say that about you. See, I think I am different. I think when I'm going through a heartbreak, well, I'm I'm a crier.

I cry everything.

I mean, I'm just I feel my feelings and I wear them right on my sleeve.

And it's something I've really worked on.

It's beautiful.

It is beautiful. It's also like not always the best. If you're like stressed in a work situation, you should probably not cry. But I am definitely the person that if I'm going through a heartbreak and I go to a coffee shop and someone goes, how are you, I'll start crying to them right right And I think in a way that is beautiful. It's very vulnerable.

But I actually.

Really refuel by being out in the world, by going out.

Even by myself.

I sometimes it's too tiring to be with friends or feel like I have to rehash the heartbreak and tell my friends and keep them up to speed. And you know, there's a time and a place for that, but sometimes that is a little spiritually exhausting for me, and I think I I like, though, to see that there is life going on around me, just like my daughter.

Yeah, I take a great.

Crasy, go to a bar, maybe you're not even drinking, go to a coffee shop, be out in the world, and just observe that, like all these people are having their lives go on.

I think that's super healthy.

I like, well, that's what I do, and it's not good, and I'm learning it's not good through therapy and I need because then you just internalize everything and then it's just like.

I tried one time, the like right away days after the breakup, like go out, you know thing. I tried it one time because it is not my normal, and so a friend of mine was like, let's go out.

Let's get your mind off of it, you know. So we did and we ended up at a.

Bar, and you know, I ended up letting some guy at this bar kiss me, and I was letting you just let him.

I just let him, you know, just.

Let's let him and I I and I was so not cool, like in my I was so aware in my head like okay, we're going to try this, and like see what, see what this feels like and I wanted to burst into tears the moment that he kissed me.

I was not ready.

It was not my way of coping. It was not fun or cool distraction.

I was like, did you get a free drink out of it?

You know what?

I'm sure I did.

But I remember making eye contact with my friend who had brought me out, and I think she was She had a smile on her face like yeah, you know, like go girl, and I looked at her and then she very quickly registered like, oh no, this is bad, this is not what she wants. Ye, so she kind of tried to come over and save me, and yeah, but I tried it once.

It's not it's not my not my way. I'm not leaving my house if I'm sad. Yeah, I just can't. I can't even fake it. Yeah, I can't get ready. I can't speaking of faking.

It, and we're running, I know we're running short on time, but rapid fire round of questions because we love Eatie so much. And she says she got good at poker because she's good at bluffing, because she faked so many orgasms. Faking orgasms. Yeah, who here has done it? I want to kick us all.

It's a thing. Yeah, it's just a thing. I like your little hand. Yeah, yeah, that'd be me. I have now not with you, Eddie. Sorry I'm not talking about that. Yeah. I feel like sometimes like.

Just get it over with okay, can we just yea, can we just be done? Okay, you're done.

Okay, I'm done. Yeah you okay?

Right?

But within that, you know, and I would not do this now because this is and this is part of what I love about aging is the is the agency you have over your own feelings. Like I would not do that now. I would just be like, hey, I'm tired, I'm done.

Like you know, I think that's have arrived in my life.

You're already there. Yeah.

I mean I think with men, for sure, who hasn't faked an orgasm with a man? I think it's way harder to fake an orgasm with a woman. One they're smarter and you have like similar anatomy going on. So I just think that is and they're just better secks.

And they're probably like I can see, I see what you're doing, you know, where as a guy's like.

That sounded like that was the real thing.

Yeah, And there'd be really.

No reason to.

But I do think now at this point in my life, in any any person that I would choose to be involved with, I just feel past like I think we're so orgasm centric in sex. I know we've talked about this before, but I feel like that's not always you know, sometimes it's just like, isn't happening, but you still enjoyed being closed to someone or being intimate, Like it doesn't have to all be about the leading.

To the orgasm.

Yeah, right, that doesn't have to mark just being hell yeah, we can.

Regardless.

Yeah, especially at my age.

So I well, you keep saying that and I'm older than you, Well, not much, I'm sure. Just to wrap things up, since you went to all the trouble of which we really appreciate of watching the episode, were there any highlights that we haven't covered that stood out for you in episode sixteen?

Shi, Oh my gosh, when haven't we covered?

I think the only thing that we didn't totally get to, which I think is a really interesting point. They talk a lot about what is a good friend, and one of the girls points out that like a good friend will a good friend will support each other, but a great friend will pretend like nothing ever happened in the first place.

Yes, there was that conversation.

I wasn't sure that I agreed with that. You know that that that a great friend would just like ignore whatever the bad thing was and just pretend like it didn't happen. I'm a I'm a person that wants to call out the truth and like, let's let's let's reason our way beyond whatever the difficulty is, but let's not pretend like it didn't happen.

I think it depends on what level. Like, like you're saying, like a good friend, a good friend is not going to do that, Like you know, when your good friend is going through something, and like if they absolutely don't want to talk about it, then there's not much you can do about it, but just let them know that you're there for them. But I think that's more like a superficial friend, we'll just pretend like that didn't happen, right, Yeah, yeah to me.

I agree to me, it was like sort of flipped from yea yeah. I thought it was a yeah episode because I thought about that too. I'm like, wait, is that right?

Is that accurate?

It's a good line, but it doesn't necessarily mean, it's a good way of living.

I think you know.

Breeze line which kind of bookends that dynamic between Brion Gabrielle is when she comes back and she says, good friends offer to help in a crisis. Great friends don't take no for an answer. That I think was more in line with how I view friends.

And I've definitely had my great friends be like, nope, we're coming over. You have one hundred and three fever. We're going to take you to the hospital. We don't care what you say. We're on our way, and that means everything to me. Yeah. Okay, lastly, yes, since our podcast is called desperately Devoted? Are you desperately devoted to anything?

Right now?

Wes More beauty? That's stuff you put on your skin that makes my old skin look young skin looks amazing. It's amazing beauty. I can't without it.

Okay, Yes, So she's filming, Okay.

Your skin and like all the freckles and age spots they all just go away.

Wow, they devoted to Westmom beauty. Y.

Okay, Well, I can't thank you enough for being here. I mean, I just think you having me. It feels like our worlds needed to collide, and I'm so glad that they did.

Oh my god, I mean, were season twenties coming now? I think that you should make an appearance, and I think a few of you girls should. We should just go to lunch, like no big deal, like we've always been friends.

Just go to lunch, just.

To go to lunch. Just go to a lunch.

And you know what I'll do, the one who in control of this, I'm going to ford you all fall on the cross of throwing the glass of wine.

Okay, guys, could you imagine me and Vicky and Channing go sit down and we just have lunch with you?

I can't imagine. I'm manifesting, imagine to.

Be a part of women supporting women.

So if we get wrong, do you try.

To support all of my friends that have businesses on the show. Yeah, I really do, and encourage all the women that I am feeling, I mean with I think just in the last episode, to encourage them to establish themselves financially, to not support you rely on anybody but yourself.

All right, well with that?

Yeah, thank you so much for joining us, and as always.

We are desperately devoted to you.

I love that.

Thank you, guys. For having me than thank you so much.

Not So Desperate Housewife with Tamra Judge (S1 E16 "Ladies Who Lunch")

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