Sex on a Full Stomach is a Vibe (S1 Ep21 "Sunday in the Park with George")

Welcome to desperately devoted.

Think of us as your favorite neighbors as we chat about life and relationships, all.

While we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.

I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen, and I'm Emerson Tunny. Hello, Andrea Emerson, to see you, guys. Okay, I had a crazy, crazy week. Well, first of all, we're here to talk about episode twenty one, Sunday in the Park with George, and let me just tell you my weekend was no walk in the park.

Okay, Oh, we'll tell us.

So, I had a giant water leak happened in my house and I had nothing to do with the rain. It was just a pipe decided to burst in the wall. And before I figured out what it was like, this constant sound was just going like for about twenty hours. I thought, I thought maybe it was like the air conditioning like. I thought, maybe a damper had gotten blocked.

Wishful thinking.

It was wishful thinking because the next morning when I came down and it was still going, Oh god. I could then see water dripping out from the now puckering base boards and the hardwood floor starting to lift and I was like, it's a water leak in the middle of the thing. So we're in the storm. My main water valve is like under my house, through a steep hill of mud. Like, it's no joke. You should have seen me. I should have taken pictures of me crawling under there with the spiders and everything else, trying to get to these handles. I ultimately couldn't do it, so I came back. I think I've talked to you on this podcast before about the neighborhood thing that I've developed over the last five years.

And also the skill of asking for help.

And the skill of asking for help. Thank you so much for reminding me that I have that now. Anyway, so I did call one of my neighbors, and right away they were like, I'm getting my toolbox. I'll be right over. He comes over, he goes down under the house like he gets the water turn out.

Just clarify, this is not Mike Delfino.

Oh no, it was not Mike Delfino.

No where were you.

Jamie doesn't live on my street. He now does live in Los Angeles, so I am closer to being able to call him in an emergency. But anyway, so we get it turned off, and you know, it's sort of just it is what it is. Now I have to get a contractor and you know, fix it and whatever. But he says to me as he's leaving, he's like, so, you know, you don't have water, like, if you need to come over, if you need to shower, you need to like, you know, poop, you can come. And I was like, that's right. I can't flush my toilets. I don't have any water, like, but there's no way I could go poop on somebody else's house. And I just it made me think, like, do you guys have a I realized I cannot poop in mine. I could never

And this is you know, it was her husband, but my girlfriend and they live obviously together, and I just never dawned on me. I couldn't go purposefully poop in somebody's house.

Okay, well, I.

Didn't think that we were going to suddenly be on like a toilet topic conversation at the time.

Look how excited you are.

That's what we do, desperately devoted, We talk about everything.

I think it's funny because we did have that storyline a little while back with Gabby not having any plumbing and how and she was like trying to use the bathroom at other people's houses. Right, I've got to say, as an Ashkenazi girl, I don't have the luxury of not.

Being able to poop certain places because.

When you have, your stomach's like, it's wherever I am, what's happening.

But you know what we really I want to be. I want to be like, oh, you know the way that we all should be, Like, it's just a bodily function, it's no big deal. But that's not me. I do think it's a big deal. I do have anxiety over it. You know, I'd like to get over it, but I did. I do have in my daughter's nursery the book everyone poops front and center. So I'm going to work on raising her to be a little bit more on that.

Poop shame.

Yeah, no, pep shame now.

Oh I know. Well, so that was my week. How was your guys this week? Wow?

Well, in comparison, my week was wonderful.

You had a working toilet. Yeah, that's really all anybody needs, It's true. I mean, it really does come down to the basics, Like you take the working toilet away and you're like, oh, I have nothing.

Yeah, my week was My week was really good as well. I mean it was I loved the rain.

That was fantastic.

I have to say I really love the title of this episode, Sunday in the Park with George, because the Stephen so Time musical Sunday in the Park with George is one of Into the Woods is probably still my favorite, but I would say this is probably my second favorite.

Is there a song from this musical that you.

Know, my favorite? Well, I don't know if it's a song.

Everybody loves My favorite song from this musical so much so that I actually have it on playlists that have nothing to do with musicals.

Is move On?

Oh gosh, just chill, su just chills. Another episode of Desperate Housewives was named move.

On from the same music and I think I probably said this then, but it is just it's I actually recently saw the Pasadena Playhouse a couple of years ago did the production of this Sunday and it was beautiful and I just is a whole story about how we see and move through time and what legacies we carry and when we let things go and when we don't, and yeah, really amazing story.

And well, I mean that devocative for Yeah, this because I mean the themes you were just saying from the song is like, Okay, this episode very well written, and we have Bob Newhart again as Morty asking Sophie, Susan's mom to marry her, and Susan hires a PI to find out more about Paul.

Well not just any Pi, the same Pi.

Okay, can we just talk about the Yellow Pages for a second, Like, I don't know if people that listen to this podcast even know what the Yellow Pages are.

I was just talking about this with my brother and we were saying, kids today, kids today must think the Yellow Pages and the White Pages are like an insane concept. Like you just have this thick book dropped off on your doorstep with everyone's name's numbers in it.

An Emerson, do you know about the Yellow Pages?

Yah? I know what the Yellow Pages are, but but I have to say it is they'd just have gone absolutely obsolete with the Internet. Yeah, right, although I would still honestly, there's something to me reassuring about having a book with everyone's names.

And I loved it.

And you used to be in every payphone in New York. You'd have a thick you know, Yellow Pages, but you could.

Call so honest. Like when you were flipping through the pages and you are looking for an ad, you know that the bigger ad, the one that Susan finds, is because they paid more money for the half page of the Yellow Pages, like I don't know whereas now, when you google stuff and the first thing that comes up, you know, like floral shop to I was, I sent you flowers for your birthday. So I looked up on the internet floral shops in Los Angeles, and up comes like you know this company, this company, But then you see in little tiny letters sponsored, so you don't so it's not actually the best florist comes up, it's the one that's like paid money to be first.

Well, speaking of truthfulness or deceitfulness, yes, the PI that Susan does hire, of course, is sharing all of the information that she tells him with Paul Yung and basically saying I'll do whatever you want me to do.

Right now, he's delivering misinformation to Susan, I know.

And I was kind of like, this feels like very questionable ethics. Yes, other questionable ethics. We have Gabby and Carlos still fighting over what happened with the birth control who tampered with it to get Gabby pregnant. Carlos is blaming his dead mother, which is just I mean, really, selling your dead mom downriver is like a big I have.

The car that is going to be you know what's gonna be worth. It's gonna be worth about eight months in jail.

Yeah, yeah, and I forever haunting. Maybe buy one ita, Yeah.

And then of course we've Brie and George are George in question for Sunday in the Park, with George having their kind of secret friendship evolve more ultimately to a place where Edie Cesbury out on a date with George and poses a question that I want to ask you both, which is basically she says, you're having an affair. And it was really early, I think in two thousand and five for the terminology of an emotional affair, which I think is something I hear my friends throw out a lot.

More so lots to circle back to there.

And also like, is ten days too long to not have sex in your marriage? Because that's what Tom.

And I say, No, that's crazy.

Ten days is not too long.

Ten days, yeah, I mean, especially because listen, they have three kids plus a baby. The idea that, oh, we've hit this first mark in our marriage ever of going ten days without having sex, and now I'm worried that our relationship is in jeopardy. That doesn't ring true. I don't know who that rings true to. Any woman in my life probably would roll their eyes at that. That is not a scary, threatening number ten days.

I mean, if you're trying to buy into the truth of it, I guess you can buy into Lynette's overall insecurity is amped up by the fact that Tom is working with his ex girlfriend, right, and so she knows that that shark is sort of circling the waters, and so every little thing is going to seem like much bigger.

Here's a question that just sprung to mind. The term work wife or work husband is a thing now, and I don't know if it was a thing in two thousand and five when the show was airing, but that kind of maybe would have come into the fold with Tom and Annabel's relationship. Do you think that referring to someone you work with as your work wife or work husband is appropriate?

Oh? I mean, it's so funny.

As someone who doesn't go to an office and doesn't even spend I mean, most of my.

Time is not even on a set.

It's like at my house or you know, behind my laptop. It's such a solitary profession. I certainly don't have a work wife or work husband, although I do have friends who work on sets for long extended periods of time on TV shows, or who work in offices completely out of the industry. And I have always thought there was something kind of sweet about.

Think James would have been could have been called my work husband.

And I literally ended up marrying someone that I worked with, so he is my work husband and my husband husband.

But I guess that's other people's fear that it can turn into that.

But I think when you think about when I think about a marriage and a partner in a marriage, a wife or a husband or a partner, what they represent.

I feel like that is, in an ideal.

World for me, representative of someone who is your rock and your support system and the person that you turn to when you want a feedback on a question, or someone who kind of know has your back. And I think having if that if those are the adjectives we imbue a partner terminology with having a version of that in your work environment, which isn't your home life or your social life environment.

I think that's beautiful and I hope everyone finds a version of that.

I think it's just about the competitiveness and the insecurity, you know, like if you're the actual wife, yeah, that's funny. Then if there's a work wife, then then there has to be a home woife. And somehow that starts to diminish the title of wife, like yeah all together. Yeah, But I'm also a big believer that no one person, even your husband or wife, can completely you know, provide the things you said, the rock, the support, the go to.

Like I'm not sure I believe in that idea that there is just this one person.

But this brings me exactly into the conversation that Brie and Edie have after Edie sees Brie out with George and she's feeding him like a clam on the floor and they're really enjoying each other's company, and he even says we should travel somewhere together, which kind of chowes the line for Brie of like maybe that's too intimate.

But then Edie calls breout on this and says that she is like having an affair with George, and Brie says, no, they're not sleeping together, and Edie said, well, it's still an affair. And I loved how re categorizes her relationship with George. She goes, we're not sleeping together. It's not an affair, you know, we just have conversations about my innermost thoughts and hopes and dreams, right, And Edie says, that's an affair, which made me think of having an emotional affair. And I've definitely had friends of mine who have had partners, who have had very close friendships with other people, and they have accused their partners of having quote unquote emotional affairs. And I want your take on

this because I feel very morally complex about this because to your point, mom, I am a very big believer in the fact that I do not think one person can give you everything in your life. And I'm not talking about monogamy or non monogamy. I mean relate to you in every emotional capacity, or you know, understand your sense of humor in every way. Like I think, we're very multifaceted people, which is why we have more than one friendship or more than one relationship. And so I think the ability to cultivate deep emotional intimacy with the people around you who really know you, who bring different things into your life is beautiful.

And I feel like the.

Kind of competitive ego driven idea that if you had someone your partner have a platonic but very emotionally close relationship with someone else, that you would call that an affair and then be threatened by it. I feel like you're severing and blunting off the connection that they have with someone who's clearly a meaningful and important person in their life, filling a bucket and kind of saying no, just because I'm your romantic partner, it's my job to fill all those buckets for you. And I think ultimately that's not going to be great for the health of the romantic relationship. But I'm curious what your feelings are on that topic.

I just feel like every time we get into discussing the sort of character traits that are going on in these characters and their dynamics in their marriages, because almost everybody on Westeria Lane is married for Susan for now, ironically, with where I'm about to go with what I'm saying is just that, like you know, it's been so long since I've been a relationship that I start to think, do I not have credibility in I don't know my opinion, like because clearly I haven't been able to execute it.

I haven't been able to be successful, you know. And it's but it's also interesting that it isn't like I've tried that many times. I mean honestly, you know, like I was married to your dad for ten years and there's you know, great stuff including you and difficult stuff that came out of that. I feel like we still have a friendship, yeah, twelve fifteen years later, but it's not an intimate like relationship. And by intimate I obviously don't mean sexual. I just mean like, you know, I connected, and I don't I have that with lots of girls friends, Like I feel like very close deep feelings are revealed with girlfriends, both with them supporting me and me supporting them.

But it's not even like I've I've tried over and over, like I had this boyfriend for four months, and I had this boyfriend for two years, and I had this boyfriend for three. Like it's just like years go by that it's not it doesn't come up for me, like, and I do look at that when I look at all these characters in the show having relationships, whether they're flawed or not, and arguably lots of them are very flawed, Like what's wrong with me?

Oh my gosh, Well, nothing is wrong with you, first of all. And you absolutely have credibility to share your own opinions and observations about your own life, your opinions on relationships, your opinions on what you've observed in others relationships. You have just as much credibility and authority to share those opinions as anyone else. And I love hearing your take on everything. But I think that you've had a lot of you have honored a lot of your own autonomy in the choice to be partnered or not be partnered.

It's not like you're not partnered by default. Like you have been intentional. You even just said you've been selective about the types of relationships you've had and how you've had them. You've unpacked even just sitting here on these couches, Like why when Emerson was younger, you kind of unintentionally or rather at the time thought it was unintentional that you didn't bring people into that intimate space with your daughter.

But now you've realized, oh no, that was incredibly intentional. So there's a lot more power and strength in the decisions you've made than I think you give yourself credit for. Sorry, I just want to point that out.

Well, Andrew, do you believe in emotional affairs or what I do? Okay?

And I think you know. I agree that there's a lot of nuance, there's a lot of gray. I want people to have really rich emotional connections that exist outside of a romantic reallyationship. But I do think you have to be careful because for me, when and this is just me, but when I have had a really special, emotionally connected, magical experience with someone of the opposite gender, which is you know where my romantic relationships have lied, it doesn't feel platonic usually right. It usually ends up feeling like, oh, that means that there's something deeper here, there's something more here. And so I think that's why it gets tricky trying to navigate where that line is.

And if you lean in too much, it can feel like a like it can feel more hurtful than a physical affair, because it's like you're allowing access to this part of you that exists in your romantic relationship to someone else. I don't know. I think you got to be really careful with it. I think being respectful is always the name of the game. I have been in relationships where I have then developed feelings for someone else in that relationship, and I have elected in those.

Moments inship in a romantic relationship for somebody else.

And then yeah, and I and I made the choice in that moment, like what is the best way to handle this? And I was honest. I was honest with the person who I was in the relationship with. I'm not going to act on these feelings, but I have them, and I want us to feel like we always lead with trust. And so I'm having the difficult conversation because I don't know what I'm supposed to do other than tell you. Because you're the person who I have allegiance to.

You're the person who.

I'm ultimate land up leaving that relationship.

Ultimately after a few more rounds, you know, of breaking up and getting back together, and it ultimately proved that it was not the right relationship, which you know. I don't know if that's a signifier or not, but I do stand by that choice that I chose to be that open and honest about it, and.

The emotional fair part, you know. I mean, if you're looking at Brie and Rex and George here like and this example of like telling him her most intimate things like sharing the food and how great it is and whatever. I don't know. I do feel like when you have something, when you have a significant other and you have something really special happen in your life for your day, and you choosing not to share that with your significant other and instead share that with someone else, it feels weird to me, Like it feels like, why aren't you like I get okay, maybe Rex in this example, Rex doesn't like fancy food, and so here's another friend who does like fancy food. And if it really was staying right in that arena, like we have a friend whose husband

doesn't eat sushi, so she never gets to go eat sushi with her husband because he doesn't eat it.

But she loves it.

But she loves it. It's her favorite thing, and so we will specifically like take her out and be like we're going on a fancy sushi date. We're gonna go because we know you don't get to do this with your husband, right. It doesn't mean she's not sharing like great love and great other moments. It's just this like one thing. But I think in the example of Bree, it feels like it's a lot of things.

Oh, because it's replacing something she's not getting, which is only going to create a deeper divide in the marriage.

I think that's the thing.

I think with a deep emotional intimacy with other people, you have if you're in a partnership with someone else, a monogamous partnership, you have to be conscious of is this person bringing something into my life that is just additive at like the sushi example, and or am I looking to this person to replace things I'm actively not getting d dingdingship? Yeah, And I think if you are, that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think that is giving you information about the romantic relationship you're in maybe not serving the needs that you want it to be serving, and maybe you should make a decision about that relationship as opposed to just offloading those needs onto someone else and staying in an ultimately kind of unfulfilling relationship.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good way, is it additive or is it replacing? That's a good way to clock in with yourself to go am I in trouble? So, by the way, if you're listening to this podcast on your way to work and you're about to go to the office where you're having an emotional fair with.

Us, right exactly, this is the.

Part where you ask yourself, am I getting additive stuff or am I replacing stuff I'm missing? Well, that'll tell you if you're going wrong or not.

And you should ask yourself this question before you make the decision to get married or engaged. Which great of us brings us into Sophie Susan's mom talking about being a hopeless romantic who's been married many times. She married a gambler, she married a drinker, she married a gay man, then she married one of those men again, and she swore that she would never get married again, although, of course, in this episode, Morty comes and asks her, albeit with his dead wife's engagement ring, and she does decide to practical.

He's practical, I mean, God bless him, Thank you, Bob Newhart. She does decide to get engaged to him.

And this made me.

It brought up a lot of questions for me, and also the conversation that Susan and Sophie have around her getting engaged made me question do you identify as a hopeless romantic? And also do you have a separate from that, do you have a judgment about the time it takes to like go from relationship to relationship, because I think I definitely identify as someone who is, you know, a serial monogamer who pretty much has gone from relationship to relationship.

And while I would not call myself a hopeless romantic because I don't identify with that term, I do think I'm the kind of person who maps onto people the best version of their potential self when I first meet them, and I think, to some degree, this is what we're doing in all romance parts of a relationship. You know, you meet someone, you project everything you hope that they can be onto them, and then, over the course of time, which is the only way you can figure this out, you pull back those projections and see them for who they are, and either that is in line with the person that you feel like you have been in love with, or it shows you new information and you realize maybe this isn't the right relationship for me, And so I

feel like for myself, I have definitely I definitely know that I dive into relationships full of projection, and as I've gotten older, I don't think I will ever be someone who doesn't seek a relationship or doesn't have a relationship find me and is interested in exploring it. But I just work on being more measured and intentional about how I guard my own personal boundaries before I really merge with someone else.

Yeah, I take issue with the term as a whole, don't. I think it's inherently pejorative when we use that word romantic, hopeless romantic. I think it's actually wrong. It's a misnomer, right. It should be hopeful romantic, because usually it's the people who really believe in love and go full hearted into something, and I think that's really beautiful. I also don't identify as a hopeless romantic or necessarily a hopeful romantic. I think I'm someone who appreciates romance. But I have lived in a very guarded way, and I am not someone who went from a relationship to relationship. I need a lot of time in between things. I'm a big processor.

I felt for a long time that I needed to do all that processing alone before I could jump into something new. And so I don't really love that idea, and it's often tossed around to the people who seem, I don't know, like other things that are kind of not put in a positive spin, like for Sophie, for exams ample, it's like flighty or unpredictable or inconsistent or helpless romantic, right, helpless romantic, and it's like, you know, let's give those people a little bit more respect than.

That, can I ask you? This is just a memory thing. Yeah, there was a moment when Susan and Julie and Sophie and Morty are out on the front lawn, yes, and Susan seems to be very excited about her mom leaving, like like, oh, that's what's going to happen with this engagement, Like she's gonna leave. And then and there's this now I'm not even remembering, but there's like this take where like Julie says something and then and then I mean, I mean Susan says something, and then Julie's like says.

Julie says something like can't you stay another week?

That part and then right and then you did something where you have a line. You're right behind me and you you have no you have some line where you're like, is it like like it was like there was there was just some comedic moment. It was just great. But it made me think, do you remember more.

About filming with them?

Yeah? I do remember it because I lose all my memories, and in losing all my memories of specificity of it, I'm horrified because Bob Newhart is just a damn genius icon. I mean, it's unfathomable that I got to work with him. You know, when I was on the love Boat a thousand years ago, my first job ever, The love Boat was sort of known for you know, they have all these kind of like famous people come through each episode.

And Donald O'Connor from Singing in the Room did an favorite a time did an episode of the love Boat while I was there, and he autographed a headshot to me, I have how do you.

Have never told me that?

I don't know?

And where is it?

It's in my keepsake?

Wow, like I should.

Be framed in my Okay make him laugh? Is like I just I can't even wow.

Okay, well that's so cute that I didn't really put that to that, but.

You have a future amazing gift to bestow.

Ever you know what you're getting for Christmas. But here I am now looking at this going I was doing this scene with Bob Newhart and why don't I mean, did I tell you the story about him taking care of my parents on Vegas?

Yeah?

So I believe that there's an autographed album somewhere, probably at my parents' house. You know. I know that my mom seems to have this recollection of how great he treated my parents in Vegas, but like, I don't have it. So you remember more.

Well.

I remember obviously being aware of the fact that I was getting the chance to work with him and being the scene with him. I mean, that was really big, huge thing in my life. So I remember that. I also have really lovely memories of working with Leslie and bumping into her a few years after we had worked together at a Starbucks up on Beverly Glenn.

I jumped into her up.

Must she yellow pages?

I love that.

Starbucks anyway, I don't really do Starbucks accept that one.

Yeah, and she she came over to me and said, you know, oh, do you remember we worked together? And I was like, do I remember? Do you remember, do.

You remember me? Yeah?

So I I have those sweet memories, you know. But I also think there was that there was a really lovely moment, uh with you, well with Susan and Morty, with with Terry and Bob Newhart when he goes to propose and you sort of help him.

Down to his knee. Oh my gosh. I know.

I love children being present for a parent's proposal, or parents being present for a children's proposal, which I will just say from personal experience. So I got engaged in Hawaii.

Josh, how did you get proposed to?

So? Josh planned a really special, beautiful, full proposal for me in Hawaii where it had a lot of funny kind of bumps along the way, flights being canceled, delayed, us having a very short time there, all these things. But we had a very private proposal moment that was just us too, and I thought that was that and it's exactly what I would have wanted. And then we went back to where we were staying and he was kind of acting funny, and I thought, well, what the jig's up? Like you already proposed, I don't know why you're still acting funny. And then he said, Okay, close your eyes and you're just gonna walk with me. And I was like okay. So I closed my eyes and I was walking around and I didn't know where he

was taking me, and he said open my eyes. And my parents were there holding two lays, Hawaiian lays, and they said congratulations. Yes, And so he had flown my parents into Hawaii and we then had this amazing several days of snorkeling and exploring and all the different.

Under the water, like the beautiful just come over and like look at.

It, because it would take that thing in the ocean, and I ended up ending up with a different ring, which is a story for another time, Okay, but not because that ring wasn't perfect. It was beautiful. But anyway, So I loved that Susan was a part of her mom's proposal because I think but that's particular.

I love that moment also, like Terry Hatcher helped Bob Newhart down to his knee in a proposal scene and she doesn't fucking remember it, like what the hell is?

And I do wonder if that was scripted or if that came from you know, when when you guys rehearsed and and maybe it was a natural thing.

I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know it was, but it was tender and spoke so much to their relationship. And I definitely have, like had many fantasies about proposal, dream proposal.

Do you have a current dreaming?

I remember one from your teenage yet I.

Know which one you're gonna say that has been That was a long health Okay.

Well tell us tell me. Well, as I recall it the first time, we you know, we know you know that Emerson and I are quite big foodies, and we've done a lot of traveling around the world, going to lots of interesting, highly rated restaurants, and one of them that was on the Best Restaurant in the World for many minute minute years was eleven Madison.

Park before it was given Yeah, before it was I think it's regular.

It's going back for it did already.

Yeah, yeah, very amazing restaurant. A whole other story, but anyway, before it was vegan many years ago, we went there for the first time and.

They had a dish that was like a I know what it was, Okay, it was this beautiful it came like it looked like a little caviar tin and it was this corn putting. It was like, yeah, like a corn putting with caviar, I think in the center of it. And it was this beautiful, very elegant, but it came in this little box and I remember saying it was so good.

Yeah.

I was like, if someone put an engagement ring in this dish, I would have to say yes, wow, yeah. And maybe I've always been a hopeful romantic, I think being queer, I have definitely now had various fantasies about being the one to propose, being proposed.

To, both proposing to each other.

I actually one of my good friend's sisters just proposed to her boyfriend a couple of weeks ago, which was like very subversion of heteronormative gender roles. But I think, you know what's interesting now, at this twenty eighth year of my life, I am participating less in projecting fantasy.

So I have thought a lot less about what my.

Dream engagement ring looks like, what my dream proposal is, and I think my focus has shifted much more to what are the dream characteristics of the type of partner I want to build a life with, and if that is with no ring, if that is not formally married in the eyes of the government.

If that is, I mean, I do want it.

It doesn't come in a caviar carriers an.

Eleven Madison park with corn I might still say yes and anyway this, Yeah, I love hearing your proposals.

That's growth. No, I mean that sounds like a really dreaming proposal. I'll agree with young Emerson there. Yeah, we have. We also have other crazy relationships happening in this storyline or this particular episode, because we still got the Gabby Carlos stuff, which is really uh, I don't know, man, this relationship is all over the.

Map, circling the dream.

Yeah, but I do think we're We've got a stronger Gabby back in this episode. I guess she has a little bit more agency, although she she really believes Carlos when he does blame it on his mother, which I'm so curious. Yes, no, no, both somebody.

That scene in particular, I thought Eva was so great in that scene, like and just like the going from the intensity of anger and surety of her judgment and then like to the point where she's like, oh, it's the other person, you know.

She's like, oh, of course, leave it to her, Like if you respect her fucking with me from the grave.

Which I'm going, like so many directions, my head is exploding. Okay, but that so I love that line that that that scene Culm natsan and she says, Wow, she's good. She's reaching out from the grave, you know, And it made me think about I have had an experience where I felt that someone was reaching out from the grave. Have you guys ever had a ghost experience?

No?

No, I mean, actually that's not true. We've talked about this a lot. I do think you are have a very and I know we don't even necessarily believe in this, but I do think you have a very witchy sort of like spiritually open sense to the universe, and I have inherited in some part that from you. I have had two ghost experiences, one in Japan with you and then one just recently in London. Last time I was in London at the Corinthia Hotel.

Hotelsynthia, that's where they always hang out.

Eure up in older places. But Mom, I want you to tell your gross story because that was so directly like and you could prove yeah, it was pretty nutty.

Okay, tell us.

So I this was back when I was competing on Chopped right, okay, which I did win. Yes, only against celebrities. It's all you know, win is a win. Take it all with a grain of salt, but a win is a win anyway. So I take my games and my cooking very seriously. So I went to New York. When you do the show, you have to be there at six in the morning and then you like cook throughout the whole day, and so it's a big day. So I went there a day before so that I could get on New York time at least a little bit.

So when I landed, I was staying at the Soho House down in the Meatpacking area, and I i went. I got there around like seven thirty, and I was like, very I had my idea. I'm going to get a John's pizza. I'm going to eat it really fast. I'm going to take a shower. I'm going to be in bed by nine o'clock so that I can wake up at like five and then be up so that the next night I can go to bed and then get up and then do the show. And that was my big plan. So I got my pizza, got my shower, got my pajamazon, and I'm in the bed. Now, these rooms at the Soho house are that They're like a big bed in the main bedroom, and then there's an egg shaped bathtub kind of in the corner. And it's sort of a unique thing. It's not in the bathroom,

it's in it's in the bed, in the recroom. It's in the room with you. So I go to sleep about nine o'clock and maybe an hour later, I wake up.

I sit up in bed like out of a dead sleep.

Out of a dead sleep. I look at the bathtub and I had the thought I have is someone died in here? And I'm like, oh my, and I could not shake it, like I couldn't go back to sleep. I felt so weird, and so I got up and I called down to this lovely young girl that had checked me in at the desk, and I was like, can you come up to my room. I just I need to ask something because I felt like I can't ask this over the phone.

That's my favorite part of the story. I can't possibly say I think someone died in the year over.

So she comes up, knock, knock, knock. So I opened the door. So she's standing in the hallway. I'm standing in the in the in the room, I'm in my pajamas, and I say, thank you so much for coming up. And this is insane. You're just gonna think I'm crazy, But but did did somebody die in here? And her face just like goes white and she's like stunned, staring at me and doesn't say anything. And then i'd like take a pause, and I'm like, did somebody die in here?

And she's like, can I come in? And I was like, oh my god. So she comes into the room, closes the room, and she proceeds to explain to me that a woman was drowned murdered in the bathtub. And then she's like She's like, that's about all she says. But then she's like, but it was quite a while ago and we've completely redone the room. But if you'd like me to move you to a different room, I can move you to a different room. And I'm like, so, just like I have to do chop, I have to go to bed. Wait, someone died in here. I don't understand what's happening to me right now. I just couldn't compute it all like my and so I was like, no, I'm fine, thank you, And so she leaves. So now I'm in this room and I'm like, okay, So I

go get back in my bed, and I'm like, cannot go back to waiting. So then I go look up on the computer, of course Google, like you know, girl dies in Soho house whatever, And sure enough it was a story that a guy who happened to be the son of like some really rich record producer who was on trial, like was in prison, like so the trial had not happened, Like the thing was still happening, okay, even though I think it had been like a year and a half or something like that, but it was still, like, you know, I guess these things take a long time anyways, And the girl had been a bikini fashion designer who was like maybe in her early thirties, and she was very beautiful and having like some burging success. And the accusation,

the accusation was that he drowned her. And now it's alleged. I don't know how it all turned out, but the accusation at the time was that he drowned her in the bathtub.

She died in the bathtub in the house.

And it happened on my birthday, like a year and a half before God, and so I decided that because of that, there was some sort of connection. And I was like, Okay, what I'm gathering is that you just feel like forgotten and you feel like unseen, and you.

Feel like like you you've got you know, the raw deal, and nobody's like you're not getting justice, and so like, you know, I want you to know.

That I I see you. This is a horrible story. I'm so sorry this happened to you. And like she said, this is like amazing. But I'm going to pack my bags and go across the street to the dance floor hotel, so please don't follow me because I have to do chopped. Wow, that's a crazy story that really happened. It's not nuts, that's nuts.

That's nuts, if you can tell from my gas. But I was really imped.

But wait to circle back to how great Eva was in this scene. It did actually make me think I wanted to just nod to did you guys get like the whole episode? Like Larry Shaw directed this episode, and I'd be so curious to talk to him. I mean, I thought either it was where the writing meets the directing, where you know, the what do they say something on the road, like, I don't know where the where the chicks thro Yeah, the rubber the chicken crosses it and the rubber meets it. It kills and then kills the chicken.

Gardner rubber duckies and there's how it acts.

But I felt like everyone was so good in this episode. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Like the acting was just I don't know, the storytelling, it was just off the charts for me.

I I totally agree.

Another moment I loved in this episode was Susan and Julie going through Mike's file because Susan doesn't want to read the police file.

She's gotten about what Mike has done.

From the PI.

Yeah, and of course she makes Julie another amazing parenting moment, makes they're endless. Yeah, makes Julie go through the file, and it made me think, I mean and I also I loved the conversation of like she's, hey, we'll make the news like even if it's bad news, like make it sound She's.

Like, do you want the good news bad news? First? Are you a good news or bad news?

Well?

That's what I was gonna ask.

I was gonna say, do you what do you think is the best way to deliver bad news? And are you the kind of person that wants good news first or bad news first?

And what if there is no good news, I want the bad news first.

I will always say, give me the bad news first, and then chase it with some sort of dessert news, right Like, I'm like, give me the medicine and then and then give me the sugar. I don't know the best way to deliver bad news other than try to make it as streamlined as simple as possible. I think people get really anxious when they are waiting to hear something.

I think you actor and m just like you didn't get the part right, yes, rip the band aid off. I can't tell you how many times in my life like yeah, and you get and you get the phone. Like sometimes the worst is when the agent calls you, but isn't the agent, it's the assistant of the agent calls and says like, oh, I have so and so calling for you. Please call us back, And you're like, yeah, that's not good. You just all the way already. You're like that's not good because if it was you got the part, it would be like, hi, please goes back right away, or whatever, and instead you get they Hi, it's so and so calling and you're just like so.

Then when you finally get the agent on the phone, they're like, yeah, you didn't get it. I mean I get this.

Sometimes my manager will call me and then he my manager sometimes is not always the most direct about things. I'll kind of like shoot the ship for a mental how's your weekend?

How's I know I've just that's the thing.

I know. I've just pitched a movie. So I'm like, okay, like, when are we going to get to the part where they passed? Because you would have led with I have amazing Because he always does that. When it's good news, he's like, boy, do.

I have news for you?

Right?

And then I'm excited, and when it's not good news, he's like, so would you do it for the weekend?

I'm like, just tell me that they don't want me to write the movie, like I don't.

But it was.

It's a very and it's another really adorable scene for Susan and Julie, like questioning parenting aside, it's just a sweet moment and I did agree. I love the way that Larry shot so much of this episode and even that It's like you see Susan in the background and Julie in the foreground reading the folder, and there's just so much happening between what they're saying or not saying.

And you know, I didn't remember filming that scene, but I.

Remember because we had a lot of work together, and these last leading up I think, Yeah, as we're getting to the finale, and I just, I know, like it's boring to just hear me say, like I just can't get over how good you are and kind of how good we are together, Like I enjoy it so much. Yeah, but I don't remember it, Like, how is that possible? Well?

We I mean, look, Terry, you were also raising Emerson at the time, you had a million other things going on in your world. The show was crazy, like there was so many things happening that can affect what.

I also do think there's a scientific thing going on with my career in general, especially with how many years I've been on television. So if you think about it, it was like four or five years on Lewis and Clark, you know, at this pace, and then seven to eight on Desperate Housewives. Not to mention other stuff, but it's like my short term memory. My ability to like look at this piece of paper and literally memorize it in I don't know, fifteen minutes is so acute. But then if you ask me what I did yesterday, I have no idea.

Well, it's downloading and offloading, right like over and over and over, and I feel like somehow the memories of this show have gotten like that, fallen into that category.

So unless it's like super dramatic either one way or another, meaning like either really really great or really really bad, I sort of didn't hang on to it.

Yeah, it's a lot of so much of life.

The one other storyline I wanted to talk about in this and I know we touched on it briefly is Lynette and Tom because also when we interviewed Doug, he talked about being in the song and then the episode is the famous song, and I'm so excited about it.

Great.

By the way, I know, I don't know what he was self conscious. I mean, I totally understand why you're self conscious.

Well you know what it made me think about though, because again he kind of brought it up. But I have a recollection of James doing a scene on this is early in the show where he's shirtless raking in his yard.

Yeah he looks great.

Yeah, Okay, So I feel like if we get him back in here, we're gonna have to talk to him about this. I feel like either it was either one of two things Mark didn't Mark Terry didn't tell him that he was going to be shooting a shirtless scene raking soon enough, and so he was desperately doing like pushups and stuff. And he had wished that Mark had told him like a week in advance, so that he could have quit eating pizza and beer the night before.

And but it made me think about Doug with this scene and how I am. And I'm wondering about even you guys when you go on like vacation to the beach or whatever. I'm totally guilty of. Like we had a photo shoot. Okay, we had a photo shoot, and three days before the photoshoot, I stopped drinking and I stopped eating sugar, and I really pulled back on the carbs.

And that is a real thing. And the truth is, I don't know that in three days there's actually going to be at any measurable, you know, difference between how I fit in a pair of pants or don't, but in my brain, I just feel more confident and like less insecure and ready to go. And I feel like actors do that.

Okay, I'm gonna well, totally actors do that.

I mean as obviously parents with actors, actor friends, parents who are actors and actor friends. I've watched many of my friends go through various phases of bulking up or dropping way very quickly in ways that I would say are not healthy. That is not a healthy way to change your body.

And I know that. Just laugh. I just want to clarify. In my three days before the photoshoot, I was not not I was eating like sardine.

I'm not attacking spinach.

And whatever.

I'm not attacking you.

But I will say how she said she did like stop drinking water and like didn't eat carbs for like three miles.

I heard Mindy Kaling said that about the met Ball, that she did stop drinking water.

Maybe we all have felt this immense pressure given the met Ball and my profileness of it all.

Yeah, this is this is a thing I feel like we see perpetuated a lot in Hollywood of like, oh, I'm gonna really have these restrictive diets. So I look a certain way, and I've definitely been guilty of not going on like a beach vacation, but I'm thinking about even going on like a first date or something when you like meet up for drinks at like eight o'clock or eight thirty and you're well past dinner, like you're not going to be eating on the date. But I don't really want to eat dinner before the date because I don't want to be like full in case the date gets more intimate.

Well, I'll like, I'll have like half a Greek yogurt.

At like seven and be like that's gonna have to be good until tomorrow, because I don't like it if I'm like take care of clothes.

I get some actions, yeah, because I might get, but then you have to be really careful with the being a drink, so only date, you got to be really careful then if you don't have enough in the stomach.

And so I don't recommend this.

And the thing I'm going to say is I had a guy friend of mine, one of my good good friends, who I do not, you know, think I have an emotional affair with, but we've known.

Each other since high school. And he said to me.

We were somehow talking about like eating or not eating before sex on a date, like, oh, if you got to an Italian restaurant, you eat a lot of food, then you take your clothes off.

And I was like, yeah, god that's so hard. Like as a you know, a woman, I think about that a lot.

And he said, and it was such a masculine thing, and I really actually kind of want to embrace this and like embody this in my own body, in my life.

He was like, I don't know.

He was like, I kind of like getting full at dinner and then having sex, like i feel really like grounded and like powerful, Like oh, I'm like have like a belly full of food and now I'm like having sex.

And I was like, wow, god, this is so male. Yeah, like this is so masculine.

But also if I wasn't thinking about how I was being perceived sucking in my stomach, maybe that would feel really sex.

Okay if I do sex again, because we're really gonna we're really gonna stomp on this whole celibacy rumor because I I remember started that I'm celibate. I'm like, I'm not celibate. Is like a conscious idea and choice and connect to have sex. I just don't have anybody to have sex with. Okay, that doesn't make me cellibate, that just makes me sad.

I don't know.

Okay, I'm not sad, but I will say when and if I do get the opportunity to have sex again, I'm eating a fucking bowl of pasta before I do it. I know That's what I'm doing now.

I'm thinking about it. I'm like, that's the hottest thing ever. I want to be like full of spaghetti and like, yeah, let's have it.

Forgot, let's do it.

Well. This kind of naturally segues into another part of the Tom and Lynette storyline. So the reason that Tom wears the thong is because he makes this comment earlier in the episode to Lynette about, well, you know, men like it when women put in a little effort sometimes.

Which, oh you Tom, I thought she's gonna.

Deck him again like she does.

Tom is not wearing well on TikTok.

Right, it's because of But then he does try to redeem himself by being the one who does put the thong on. Right, But in any case, whatever, he does make this comment, and it made me think about the idea of where does putting an effort to create sexy moments, you know, fall in the prioritization of a relationship, Like do you need to always be putting in that level of effort to be you know, creating sexual fantasy moments for your partner? Is that realistic? Can you sustain that?

Again? You know, talked about earlier. I feel like I have no credibility.

I would say I would. I would jump in and say, yeah, how do you feel?

Emerson, that's the other person.

In the room who was having anything?

You know.

Yeah, I was talking to my therapist about this.

Actually, Like the difference between romance and like a relationship. A relationship is this long sustaining thing, and romance is a feeling that in some ways leads to a relationship sometimes but also is something kind of entirely different and is beautiful, Like it's beautiful to cultivate romance in our lives.

I try to do that even when I am alone. Like I like to light incense in the morning. I like to light a candle if I'm doing yoga, like the lights to dim, or like have a glass of wine while I'm cooking and put on a record.

Can I say that I do that by myself too, and because I spend a lot of time alone and I do a lot of talking about how I have not been in a relationship in a long time. I am in a relationship with myself that is very consciously caretaking. You know, I get in the jacuzzi, I will go for a swim, I will light candles, I will make myself a nice meal.

Like the romance that you cultivate with yourself is an amazing starting place for the romance that I think you're able to cultivate in a relationship.

Absolutely, and I do think it is cultivating.

I mean, I'm not a huge one, and I never have been in relationships to like dress up in a made costume like Lynette or like whatever insert whatever your sexual fantasy is. I think that can be a fun conversation to have with a partner and explore. But that's certainly not like the daily routine of intimacy in my experience.

But I do think trying to align on rituals that cultivate a sense of intimacy with yourself that then you're able to extend to your partner is maybe a way to keep the romance alive.

Well, it's also the intention behind it. It's that when someone shows that they are choosing to do something to excite you, it almost doesn't matter what the thing is. It's that they recognize that they're going to do something to try to excite you and feel connected with you.

Nothing is hotter than being listened to nothing, having someone act on what you've said.

Yeah, correctly, that's the key to and that is sustainable and it is hot. And I do think that creating romantic moments for yourself is super critical and crucial. And I, for one, love a dimly lit shower. I think that is a wonderfully romantic thing you can provide yourself. And if you are showering with all the lights on, I mean obviously sometimes like in the morning or whatever, but if you're a nighttime shower and you're not setting the mood with your lighting, let me tell you try that and then get back to us even how.

You're doing Meandra, So we're finishing this episode up with you know, Felicia is trying to take hold of Zach and get him away from Paul, and.

Which, god, Marcus so great in that scene. There's more to say.

There's always more to say, and we have Susan finally reading through the file on Mike and then getting the truth from Kendra that Mike was not actually the bad guy that she thinks he was.

She gives her permission to go for it again. So then we get this really sweet kiss on the porch.

I know to be a hopeless or hopeful romantic. I love that rebrand.

There's not a lot better than Susan running across the street into Mike's arms.

We get a few moments in the first season of it, and I hope it never ends.

I know, so I mean, I know, I hope as you go out into your week, you find a way, whether it's with yourself or with a partner, or with someone you're having an emotional affair with, to run across the street, to let yourself be hopeful, to cultivate intimacy with yourself.

Look those ways first before you do it. Exactly take our advice, because we are desperately devoted to you.

Sex on a Full Stomach is a Vibe (S1 Ep21 "Sunday in the Park with George")

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