ACOTAR: Cassian Deep Dive - His Family Mystery, Power, and Maasverse Connections

0:00 What did you wake that day in Highburn, Prince of Bastards? What came out was not what went in. It doesn't say that he woke Nesta. It says what did you wake? That's a great point. Yeah, whatever happened in that cauldron, the bone Carver is saying was Cassian. Now that we're recording these after work right now, I have nothing fun to talk about.

0:44 Yes everyone, welcome to our second episode of Dragons After Dark. It is once again after dark because Ronnie and I were both sick this weekend, so we had to record after work, which is not our usual vibes, but we're interesting. So there's a hurricane coming up here. I'm still at the beach. There's hurricane coming. It's not going to make landfall, but the swells are really big. It's a surf town, right?

1:05 So Derek and I just went and watched the surfers for like 45 minutes and like watching surfers eat shit is like, my heart races. I'm like so scared for them. And I'm like, Oh my God, that looks like so bad. Like are you going to be able to walk? Like I know they're fine. I know it's just water, but some of these people, I was like, Oh my God.

1:24 And then they got back up, did it again, because apparently, apparently waves can be wrong. Apparently there are good waves and there are bad waves. And even when the waves are big, it depends on how the waves break. Like there's a whole thing to it. I didn't know that, so I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I feel the same way when I watch surfers and like I try to watch like the Olympics at least.

1:46 So I have like a real appreciation for what the most elite the world are doing. And it's like so hard to watch when you yourself have been just like wiped out by a wave. Like if you know the sensation of literally being dragged against the bottom of the ocean out of your control, that's like all I think of except for at a way bigger scale when I see those people wipe out and. That's how I feel when I watch races and I see people totally bonking and I'm like, oh man, I know exactly how they fucking feel right now.

2:22 And it is the worst feeling in the world. Yeah, yeah. That was a light hearted way to start the I'm. Trying to think whether I actually have anything good. I mean kind of my is a fun banter topic, but like not probably not relatable for most people. I work in an office every day and recently we've been like adding a floor and we've been renovating that floor. And so every once in a while there just be like literally a jackhammer like operating above my head. And I'm like on a call 'cause I see them walk in, they start like laying down their tarp.

2:55 It's like really noisy. It's like think of like Saran wrap, but like on a construction scale, they're like running it over the carpet. And it's like, and I'm like, I got to go. I. Can't do this right now, but some people stay and they're just like, they just put their like, you know, Airpod Maxes or whatever on and they're just like vibing and I'm like, I can't do this out. Goodbye.

3:17 Did I ever tell you the story? All right, we both used to work for a large company. That large company will remain unnamed. However, there was a project for this large company in downtown DC at a federal office. Let's put it that way. A well known federal office and my roommate who also worked for this large company was on that project at the time. And this building was known for being terrible. Like it didn't have Wi-Fi, you had to have Ethernet that plugged into it.

3:43 And it was like you had to like there was literally something called a water fund because you couldn't drink the water out of the water fountains. So like you had to contribute $10 every month. You had to contribute $10 every month to buy like water bottles so that everyone would have water. Really crazy shit.

3:58 My roommate sends me a picture one day. I shit you not. It's like classic, like paneled ceilings, right? Like it's just like those Styrofoam boards that you can push up, right? And there is a raccoon peering out from the top one of the panels just like looking at everything. And I think everyone, I don't know, I think they had a raccoon infestation. No, for me, I mean other rodents that you could have. I suppose Raccoon would rank first. Yeah, but it was during the day, so like. Yeah, they'll take a raccoon over over a mouse or a rat, though there's some cute you should. If you haven't already seen these videos of domesticated raccoons on social media, I'd recommend. I mean I definitely haven't but

4:49 I have seen the like raccoons washing their hands videos. So cute. You know what I realized how fucked my algorithm is to only be focused on romanticy right now is that I haven't even watched the Wicked for good trailer. Like that's how like laser focused my algorithm is right now. I know I need to do that. I'm going to.

5:10 Yeah, I don't know AI. One thing I've noticed about social media, I keep like my account separate so I don't really have that remain much romantic content on my post. I don't even go on my personal Instagram anymore, like I'm never on there. OK, I still go on like all my personal stuff and AI has gotten so like scarily good now that I'm just seeing like really convincing deepfakes.

5:35 And I've been trying to follow the casting of this Harry Potter show on HBO, which I have now decided we could talk about this more. But I am now decided that I'm actually excited about the show because the movies were so not Canon. Like they skipped so much. And I'm being told that the show is going to actually follow each book in the series, like actually lay out the events.

6:06 I am in theory. I am in theory quite excited about it. Let's put our feelings for JK Rowling aside. Story alone, I am, in theory, very exciting about it. Here's my casting issue, and I've seen no one raise this issue. It is not about Snape. It is not. What about Mcconagle? The people that they cast to play the Dursleys are far too fucking attractive.

6:26 They're very hot people. It's simply will not work. It won't. Work. Yeah, the Dursleys are supposed to be ugly. I agree. I agree. I don't know but I will seem I actually like So my point here was I can't tell what's real and what's fake. I saw a post today that looked so genuine but was posted by some account that looks like spam that Cynthia Areevo was going to play Voldemort. Is that real?

6:50 Seeing this going or I. I don't think it is. I don't think it is what I was. Yes. If it is, I'm good, but I have no idea. I would watch it. I would watch it. I would. Watch it here first. I would watch Cindy Erivo as Lord Baltimore. I feel like that's just happening because she's kind of got her Voldemort look going on right now.

7:13 It's working for her. I want to be clear. It's working, Yeah. I don't know. And honestly, maybe she's. Been low key campaigning for this role for two. Years, maybe. It was a plant. Yeah, I'd watch it. I will watch it. I mean, I'm probably going to watch this show, let's be real. There is no way that I don't watch this show. It's just whether I finished this show or not. Yeah.

7:35 All right. I was growing up. You were growing up when these books were coming out. We got them in by the truckload at camp. And there was a rule of silence. You could not about the Harry Potter books. Yeah, I think for I think for the entire time, which was like 8, I think maybe it maybe it was like 2 or 4 weeks or something like that.

7:53 But I was at camp for eight weeks. I went to I went to sad girl camp. I went to like music camp where I played piano in a small cabin for the entire summer and they would bring in the truckloads of the Harry Potter books and they would hold hand them out and like you weren't doing much of these camps.

8:08 It wasn't like you really going out and partying after the end of whatever you would have like an activity and then you would go to bed and I would bail on all the activities and read these books and I'd be done in 2 days and then you. Say, did you finish first? Were you the 1st? Always. And then I was just like, like, who do I talk to about that like that moving?

8:29 No, but it doesn't it doesn't matter if like two people finish and they agree to go discuss it like it is not if anyone catches you big problem. Ridiculous, ridiculous. That's simply kind of ridiculous. Ridiculous. All right, Oh, I'm doing the intro. That's it's on me. I've been waiting for you to dump in.

8:49 Honestly been like, how long is she going to let me ramble about my fucking nerd camp? Is she? Going to start the show. All right, I'm Abby. I'm Ronnie, and this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart your favorite fantasy series, romanticy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes.

9:09 We are in our second season which is focused on A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J Mass. I know we've been saying new season, but we're well into this season. We're so second season covering Acatar by Sarah J Mass Disclaimer These episodes contain spoilers for the entire Acatar series. We will announce any other Mass first spoils spoilers ahead of time and we keep them to the ends of the episodes.

9:32 You guys know by now we have our Acatar section. We have our Mass first section. These two shall not meet. There are no Mass for spoilers in the Acatar section. So if you haven't finished the Mass first, you're good. You can listen until we tell you not to. Disclaimer, this podcast is rated R Do not listen with your children. Each week we dive into a specific topic in death. This week we are covering our Lord of bloodshed, our Prince of Bastards, Cassian.

9:58 Yay. We both love Cassian, we love Nasta, we love Cassie. So we love Nasta, we love Cassia. I still. Well, we don't have to talk about them. Well, you like, I think there are there are Cassian girls. I really, really like Cassian, but I am still a Reese girl over a Cassian girl personally. I know probably you're not seeing girl. Yeah.

10:22 No. I guess in real life you would straight up not go for Reese over Cassian I would say. I'm dating someone who in my mind looks a lot like I believe what Cassian looks like. So yes, I would say that's probably true. Yeah, yeah. All right, last thing we're covering with receipts. We will have quotes to back up any theories so you can follow along if you're skeptical. Ronnie announcement it's going to be a wack a doodle episode. It's going to be something announcements. So you have probably noticed by now that we have Deep Dive Music.

10:54 Our Deep Dive Music is brought to you by a real artist named Schwoodley. SCHWOODLEY, Check them out on Spotify. They're real artists. They're great. We love them. We also have a website now. We mentioned this on our last episode, but just in case you haven't visited yet, it is Dragons in thedetails.com. It's just a nice little landing page for all our stuff. We don't know what we're going to do with it yet, but it's there.

11:19 It's got some stuff from us, some fun content, some links to everything you could ever possibly need. So check it out. It's live. The idea of a blog has been thrown out. We'll see. OK, see. Other than that, just, you know, we're starting to try to plug this up here instead of at the end of the episode.

11:35 Please, like, comment, subscribe, tell your friends if you like what we do. We are small podcasts, but we are trying to grow and I think that's all we have. Cool. All right, Ronnie, corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. Do we have any? I have one that's for fun. It actually was commented a while ago but I just happened upon it when I was prepping for this episode and I wanted to shout it out. It was a YouTube comment from someone with a username. Park no Chuism 826.

12:06 Usernames are really hard to pronounce guys. But if you recognized your own username there I'm shouting you out. This user said Oh my God I forgot to comment it on the Tamlin deep dive but someone I know named their cat after Tamlin after only reading Akatar and then they read Akamai. Oh no. And I replied, I'm rooting for his redemption arc.

12:28 Tamlin's redemption arc on behalf of Tamlin the Cat. I want Tamil and the cat to be our mascot. I want Tamil and the cat to have a good story at the end of the day, and Tamil and the Cat already does. However, this is now made me actually care about Tamlin's redemption arc. The fact that there is a cat out there who earned a name he didn't deserve.

12:51 That's like when people name their kids like Daenerys before the end of Game of Thrones. Yeah, no, I guess that's whatever Game of Thrones has happened. It's been years. It's been years. You guys don't know what happened to Daenerys? Then you're never going to know what happened to Daenerys. Oh my God, I do have a friend. I have a friend who literally is like, I, I'm reading the books. Don't spoil Game of Thrones for me because I want to read the books as they come out and I'm available to you. You have to live in the real world. I'm like, tell you, first of all, he's never finishing these books.

13:25 Like he's not so. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, yeah, also those are dense. Yeah, so I was not allowed to talk to him about Game of Thrones, so that's the same. I know. OK. All right, fun Question Time. Ronnie, what is your favorite Cassian moment? My favorite Cassian moment is surprisingly not a romantic moment, but there's a reason that it's my favorite, and it's partially because it's not romantic.

13:51 It is when he's training Farah and she's really struggling after her time under the mountain and she punches through his gloves with her flames and he is kind of standing there. He holds his hands up and he's like willing to let her keep going. He's like, I can take it. I'm here if you need to punch your flaming hands into my bare skin. I'm fine with that.

14:14 And the reason that's my favorite is because I love how layered it is. He trains Farrah without question, simply because like a small part of her story reminds him of his. He's, we know he's feminist. He he loves training women, but he's like, no questions asked, I'm training this random new Faye girl that my best friend brought home. I'm just going to train her because I'm a good person and because she's important to Reese, Of course, also shows his unwavering loyalty to Reese and his friends. And I think another reason that it hits so hard is he's not interested in favorite at all.

14:47 Like this is not like a romantic, like, oh, I'm going to let you do whatever you need to do to me because I love you. I mean, he does love her, but it's not a romantic love. She's not even as high lady yet. He just cares about her. And he's literally willing to allow her to scald him so that she can get her feelings out. Like what a good human.

15:05 Yeah, that's that's my favorite Cassian moment. What's yours? Mine is romantic and I decided to not put in a bedroom moment because I love all of those so I can't. Honestly, no notes. No notes on that. My moment that I picked was Cassie and kissing Nesta to bring her back from when she's crying for the Cauldron. So she is like, kind of lost in this void. And he is literally surrounded by all of his friends, all of whom kind of hate Nesta at that moment and are so not on board with this girl.

15:36 And he makes out with her in front of all of them and lets her feel how much he needs her, which they can all feel, right? Because they can all smell it, right? So they all know how fucking turned on he is in that moment. He's basically just like, openly declaring his love for this woman in front of people who are, like, not that fond of her.

15:55 So I love that moment because he's just like, choosing her over everyone. And it's just like a real moment of bravery and like, yeah, again, what a good human. What a good guy. Damn, that was a good one. It's also kind of like you're reading it as. Are you reading it as caskin it? Switches back and forth so I'm going to a little spoiler alert my precog corner is about this scene because I think there's a lot going on in this scene so that's stay for precog corner if you can but you get we switch back and forth between Cassian and Nesta so basically you're with Nesta until she like kind of goes into the void and then.

16:29 Oh yeah, yeah, it. Switches to Cassian's perspective, which is interesting because that means we don't know what Master was doing. So we'll get to it, yeah. Interesting. All right, cool. Shall we deep dive? Let's deep dive. All right, Ronnie, this seems like a straightforward question, but let's talk about it.

16:52 Who are Cassian's parents? Yes, let's talk about it. I got into who Cassian's parents are, but I also got into what is Cassian's family line I think is OK to think about. I mean we don't know much. I'll disclaim it would We don't know much. So Cassian is Illyrian to start, so his parents are Illyrians. We are given no reason to believe that both his father and his mother are not Illyrian.

17:14 So his he is the bastard son of a war camp laundress. I assume that's a war camp Illyrian wandress, yes, and a quote warrior. She couldn't or wouldn't remember. And so the quote is we are bastards as an I, the Illyrians we love our people are traditions, but they dwell in clans and camps deep in the mountains of the north and do not like outsiders.

17:36 So Illyrians are generally breeding with other Illyrians, especially high Fey who tell them what to do. So they're not breeding with high Fey if they can help it, but they are just as obsessed with lineage and have their own princes and Lords among them. And that's when he explains that he's a bastard son of a war camp laundress and how he had a hard time in camp because of that. He was flown to camp as soon as he was weaned off of his mother. And then the Illyrians in the camp where his mother worked, worked her until she died.

18:05 We don't know who this warrior father is, but Cassian does. He found him and he and his brothers ripped him apart while his brothers ripped them apart. And then he actually finished. And he says anyone who was a responsible children and some females and the elderly, I let them leave. But anyone who played a role in her suffering, I made them suffer in return. Reese and Ezreal helped me.

18:24 I found the piece of shit who sired me. I let my brother just tear them apart before I finish them. I say that because I think it's important to note right? Like the Cassian does know who his father is and who his mother is. We just, we don't know anything about them with respect to Cassian's lineage.

18:40 The only other thing in my opinion that we really know is we know that he is descended from Analius because Analius was the first of the Illyrians. The quote that I pulled that from is Nesta. Listen to the low level Illyrians soldiers whispering about how Cassian had thrown that spear, how we'd cut down the soldiers like stalks of wheat, how he'd fought like a nullius, their most ancient warrior God, and the first of the Illyrians.

19:02 I only have one more thing to add here that there's a couple of things that don't add up about the Cassian kind of childhood story. So we are also told that Illyrians power is hereditary, right? So like in general, the quote is. Where is this? So Cassian and Azrael each have 7 siphons right? And we are led to believe that this power is hereditary. The quote is.

19:25 Reese's power grew every day, and everyone, even the camp Lords, knew he could missed everyone if he felt like it. And the two of us, we weren't, we weren't far behind. He tapped his Crimson siphon with a finger. A bastard Illyrian had never received one of these ever. For AS and me to both be appointed them, I'll be at begrudgingly had every warrior in camp across those mountains sizing us up. Only pure blood pricks get siphons born and bred for the killing power.

19:51 It still keeps them up at night puzzling over where the hell we got it from. Right? So that kind of implies to me that there's something that doesn't quite add up here, right? Like the purebreds get it. Azrael and Cassian are not purebreds, but they have 7 times as much power as your average Illyrian. And then we're literally told that this is. A hereditary power that was actually bred into the Illyrians.

20:13 Right? So the quote is the Illyrians bred the power to give them advantage in battle. Yes. The siphons filter that raw power and allow Cassian and Asriel to transform it into something more subtle and varied into Shields and weapons, arrows and Spears. Imagine the difference between hurling a bucket of paint against the wall and using a brush. The siphons allow for that.

20:32 So something's not adding up because we're told his mother is just a war camp laundress and his father is like a low level Illyrian warrior. But there's something that doesn't quite add up there. We think we know who his parents are, but like maybe we still don't have the full story, kind of similar to what happened to his mother, right?

20:49 So there's moments where it's implied that maybe we don't have the full story with his mother because he said when he goes back to this war camp after his or before his Anakin Skywalker moment, they refused to tell him where she was, she was buried if they'd given her that honor or if they'd thrown her body into an icy chasm to rot. So we have an off screen death and we don't have a grave, right?

21:10 Which sometimes means that it's not actually a death. She might still be alive. I don't really think that's what's happening here, but like the possibility is there. And then there is one other kind of quote here. And maybe this gets into the analiest thing that you were mentioning before, right? Because this would kind of imply a connection. There's a quote here that makes me wonder if there is an actual connection, if it's biological, magical, I don't know whatever between Reese, Cassian and Azrael, right? So the quote is reset forward like he'd object, but Cassian forged ahead.

21:42 Even so, the other males knew that we were different and not because we were two bastards and a half breed. We were stronger, faster, like the call children knew we'd been set apart and wanted us to find each other. Reese's mother saw it too. Especially as we reach the age of maturity and all we wanted to do was fucking fight.

21:58 So we've talked about Reese's mother. She seems to have known things that maybe other people didn't know. She might have had some like seer abilities. We don't really know. But Cassian's kind of specifically calling out here that the Cauldron maybe separated them. Like maybe they were supposed to be brothers in the Cauldron separated them. We don't really know if the Cauldron has that power, but just kind of putting that idea out there that there is something that is linking the three of these together, the three of these men, males, males together, even if it's not biological.

22:27 So I don't know what that is, but but I definitely think that line was in here for a reason. All right. Do we want to do the next question? Yeah, I don't have anything else. All right. This is I fucked this up. All right, so the next question we asked ourselves are what are Cassian's powers? So again, not a super long list here. I think this is kind of a quick question. He has the killing power.

22:47 So this comes to his red siphons, right? So the fair asked him. When she meets him, she says, do you have any gifts? I asked him like them. I jerked my chin to Azrael and Reese. A volatile temper doesn't count, Moore said as Cassian opened his mouth. He gave her that grin I realized likely meant trouble was coming, but said to me no, I don't, not beyond a heaping pile of the killing power bastard born nobody through and through. So he has that killing power that all the Illyrians has. He has it.

23:15 He has seven siphons instead of like 1 though, right? And then we get the quote. He and as were the most powerful Illyrians in their long bloody history. They were an unprecedented, an unprecedented 7 siphons each just to handle the tidal wave of brute killing power they possessed. It was a gift and a burden that he'd never taken lightly. So I just have here kind of like, what are the siphon powers?

23:36 Just to break it down a little more into context. So basically it seems like what they're able to do is to take this brute killing power and kind of shape it into weapons. So we see Cassian and Azrael like shape them into Shields. So when Valerius is being attacked, Shields of translucent blue and red in circle. Cassian and Azrael sending those arrows bouncing off their siphons at work can also shield himself kind of from the weather.

24:01 So it's kind of like an actual physical shield. They release armor. So we have some like real Iron Man moments with Cassian where he taps to Siphon and then all this armor comes out and then they can do quick battlefield patching with them. Did you have anything else on the siphons? Not on the siphons.

24:16 Yeah. Just the like outside of the killing power says they have little magical gifts beyond that. So like they don't have he didn't say, he didn't say nothing. He didn't say like that's all they have. But they've they don't have much else. But like, what else do they have? I don't know that we've really seen that.

24:32 I think it's an open question. Yeah, I'd agree. Do you have other powers you want to talk about? Not other powers, honestly, just an interesting know that they have this killing power, they have these siphons, but when they're described fighting, they're mostly just using combat skills. Like most of the fighting scenes that we have of Cassian specifically are just like really impressive combat skills. So is that like magically stimulated? Probably, maybe, I don't know.

25:01 But it's interesting, right? It feels like at least in battle scenes that are described, the use of actual siphon power is not is not offensive. Like it's not off using the offensive, it's shielding and armor and things like that. Yeah, like we've never seen someone like, create a sword from a siphon. Yeah, yeah, right.

25:21 Yeah, no, that's totally true. I had a couple more things here that are totally not confirmed and probably just reading way in between the lines and probably nothing but maybe something to use one of your favorite quotes. There are two times where it seems like Cassian might have a connection to the weather. 2 times that kind of, I caught specific perfectly.

25:41 So the first one is they're both in silver flames. The first one is chapter 43 and they're both points in time where Nesta is kind of being threatened either physically or like mentally. So the first one is when Cassie and Nesta have traveled to the Supreme Court. So the quote and they're meeting with Eris and then Tamlin kind of shows up out of nowhere. So the quote is Tamlin bristled, hackles rising. You're exactly as nasty as your sister said you were. Nesta laughed.

26:06 I'd hate to disappoint. She held his emerald stare, knowing that silver flames flickered in her own. I went into the cauldron because of you. She said softly, and could have sworn Thunder grumbled in the distance. Cassian and Eris faded away into nothing. There was only Tamlin, only this beast and what he had done to her and her family.

26:23 So she swears she hears Thunder rumble in the distance. Like, is that? Is that magic? Is that not magic? Is that Cassian like? I don't think there's ever been a thunderstorm in the Spring Court as far as we've been told. It seems to always be pretty sunny and happy there. So I don't know. I don't know if that's something, if that's something we're supposed to pay attention to or not.

26:42 The next one, I think is a little more concrete. So this is Silver Flames Chapter 73. This is at the peak of Romeo, so when Cassian shows up and he is being controlled by the crown by Bri Allen. So the quote is at first she thought it was lightning that flashed across his throat opening. It's so wide that his blood showered the snowy air.

27:02 But then she saw the wings, the other set of wings. And when Belly is slumped to the earth, choking on his lifeblood, revealing Cassian standing there, teeth bared, blade in hand, she wondered if the Thunder rocking the mountain had been his rage. So here we're getting kind of like a direct connection between Cassian's rage and potentially the weather. Obviously they never actually like he's never said he could do this.

27:23 We haven't gotten direct confirmation we should do he could do this, but just some interesting something interesting I picked up. Interesting. Yeah. I haven't connected him to storms, but it was certainly fit with his personality. Yeah, right. Or at least imply that his power is much bigger than than we think, even though it's pretty big. Yeah.

27:43 Interesting. OK. All right. Next question, Anything else on this one? Not really, just that. I mean, it's on the nose, right? The Illyrians are straight up, they are single purpose. They are bred for battle. They have a killing power. That's the only power they have is to kill. And he's made it to Lady Death, so. Made it to Lady Death.

28:03 Bored to kill. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. All right, Ronnie, why does the bone Carver say that Cassian woke Nesta that day in hybrid? Yeah. So I don't have a ton here, but I think it's a really interesting passage in in what it implies, right. So the quote is in Akwar chapter 22, and Cassian and Farah are visiting the Bone Carver.

28:24 And the Carver stroked the Shard of bone in his palm, attention fixed upon a stone faced Cassian. What if I tell you what the rock and darkness and sea beyond whispered to me, Lord of bloodshed? How they shuddered in fear on that island across the sea. How they trembled when she emerged. She took something, something precious.

28:45 She ripped it out with her teeth. What did you wait that day in Highburn, Prince of Bastards? What came out was not what went in. It doesn't say that he woke Nesta. It says what did you wake? What did he wake? That's a great point, yeah. And it's interesting because this bone Carver is putting the verb on him.

29:08 Like whatever happened in that cauldron, the bone Carver is saying was Cassian Nasian woke it. He still says Nesta, you know, went in and like, took it with her teeth. So she took it, but he woke it up. What did he wake up? Well, let's just pull that thread for a second, right? Lesta takes the power of death from the cauldron seemingly, right? Like that's what her power is.

29:31 Reese says it plain and simple, fear death. And Cassian is said to be in this exact passage, Lord of Bloodshed. Did Cassian somehow wake death within this cauldron, somehow call to it? And it was there, kind of at the surface available for Nesta to take. And then Nesta took it. Cassie and Nesta were mates before she went into the cauldron. So could his anger, like his literal entrails were coming out of his body on the ground.

29:58 I believe at this point, like he was, he was in dire straits on the ground. Like, could his anger, his determination, accidentally invoke some power or something that we weren't aware that he could do that brought death to the surface of the Cauldron Nest was able to take it? That's really all I have. I don't have any more specifics than that, but the wording is important here I think.

30:19 Yeah, I didn't get to where you got, but I have, I guess. I think I have some supporting information for that. I think that's a really interesting idea. It's the bone, Carver says. Specifically how she calls to you, right? The only thing, or at least the most prominent thing that we are told about things that call to each other in this series is that like calls to like, right?

30:41 So yeah, like kind of what is it about Cassian and NASA? And I think you're right, like Lord of Bloodshed and Lady Death, right? Like if NASA is death, what does Piece of Death does like Cassian have in him too, if that is what the bone Carver is implying. The other thing we know about both of them is that they both got 8 pointed star tattoos, right? So like again, and that implies that there's something alike, I think about the two of them that we don't know as readers, that they don't know.

31:09 And again, as a refresher, if you guys haven't listened to our Nest episode, bargains in this series are usually not marked with two people having the same tattoos, right? So usually it's like Reese and the Carver get different tattoos. Farrah and sorry, recently Weaver get different tattoos. They were in the Carver get different tattoos. Like it is not Clearly Reese didn't get an eye on his palm when he made the bargain with Farrah, right? So the fact that they got the same tattoo, interesting, right? I think we're meant to be to draw attention to that. That was interesting.

31:43 Did Reese get a tattoo in his I? Don't think so. I don't think so. Or did it just blend in with his many? With his many other tattoos, we never find out what tattoo he got. From that bargain. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're right, Cassian does also have an 8 pointed star and somehow just knows that Nesta does too. Oh yeah, I know, right?

32:04 He's like, we never see, we never get. Well, she does say that, yeah. Yeah, we do see it, but like in the moment, and this is completely by memory, so hopefully I'm not woefully wrong, but in the moment Cassian sees like he pulls off his shirt or something and looks at the 8 pointed star and he's like, I know that Nesta has a matching one. Yeah.

32:22 How do you know Cassian? Who do you know? Yeah, I mean, the other thing that I had here is the Cauldron kind of manipulating this whole thing, right? We talked about with our Elaine episode that maybe the Cauldron and we have the quote from Ameren that maybe the cauldron is like setting up all these pieces.

32:39 I don't think the cauldron necessarily need Cassie and Anesta meets. I don't think necessarily it has that power, but we have two instances of potentially Cauldron pulling the strings. So the first is when Reese gets the made swords from Nesta, Amarin says the Cauldron wanted you to have those swords so that's why you have them.

32:55 And then the other is the quote I mentioned before about the Cauldron separating the three of them but wanting them to find each other again. So is the Cauldron playing a role with Cassie and Nesta? Is he somehow made? Is part of him made somehow? I don't know. I don't necessarily think that, but it's intriguing that he has the 8 pointed star tattoo as well.

33:14 Right. Yeah, I don't know. Well, didn't they all touch the stone at Romeo at the same time? Yeah, they did. So I wonder whether something could have happened there. Yeah. Because, well, talk to me more about that. To Nesta, well, I mean, you said could he be made, Could something about him be made? Like, I don't know, but we know that the stone at Ramiel is it. Pharaoh's power reacts to it.

33:38 Pharaoh's power reacts to it when Nesta is on Ramiel, though, she feels it breathing, specifically the past a Manalius. So yeah. And it's obviously not common for a warrior to make it to the stone and be able to touch the stone on top of Ramiel. Like, did that give him something? Does that imbue you with something that's a really intriguing yeah, there's only been like 12 or something.

34:02 Yeah, in the history or something, I don't know. That's a good point. I had not thought about that until. Neither did I. But that could be potentially A simpler explanation than everything else I have, because if that gave him anything, at least it would make sense that he's able to. That his power rises to Nestor's power and to the Cauldron's power. To tease this out.

34:22 So the theory is there's some kind of made power tied to the obelisk on top of Ramiel, and that's why Faber reacts to it and Nestor reacts to it. And because Cassian and Azrael and and Reese touched it, they also have some kind of made power, which means Gwynn and Emery would also have that too.

34:41 Now. Yeah, that's intriguing. I don't know. I don't know. Interesting idea. I do not know what that monolith is like. That thing is like I'm not sure but. It's definitely something. Definitely Onyx stone. It's definitely Onyx stone, Yeah, because Shay's got that Onyx box, so it's. Got that Onyx box. Yeah, a lot of Onyx.

35:04 Lots of Onyx. All right, That was all I had for that one. Did you have anything else? Nope. I was like, all right, OK, what happened between Cassian and Briaxis? We put in parens here wild speculation because we obviously don't know. We know nothing. I have a pretty dark here, right? So OK, so here's where we know about Brie Axis and I don't have many notes for this section, but like the implication is basically Brie Axis shows you your worst nightmare, right?

35:30 We have a couple beings in this universe that appear as different things. One is the bone Carver. But the bone Carver doesn't show you your worst nightmare seems to show you some kind of vision of your future potentially. And then we have Brie Axis, who we are told is a nightmare creature. I don't think there's anyone else. Weaver seems to appear to everyone the same way. Oh, well, I guess the boggy, the boggy Lanthus. Yeah, yeah.

35:56 That's. Intriguing. I hadn't really thought about that. Like the Boggy might have actually been cited at some point as like being gay offshoot of Breexis. I think of of Lanthus. Oh, of Lanthus. Yeah, That would make sense too. Yeah. Yeah, but it's interesting, right? The boggy only becomes real when.

36:16 When you look at it, when you look at it, yeah. I mean, it's implied, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyways, yeah. Anyway, so based on everything we know about Cassie, and I imagine what he saw was like his mother's mangled corpse, as fucked up as that is. But like, I have to think that facing that would probably be his worst nightmare. Or like maybe he saw the entire scene of like her death and like what actually happened just because that is such like an integral part of his back story.

36:48 I imagine that's what it would be, but I don't really know and that's pretty dark. So that's my wild speculation. What did you have? I have I have a list. The first reason that we learn that Brie axis exists is because fair is in the library and she's like what's at the bottom of the pit? And Reese says, I dared Cassian to fly down and see once, and he literally would never talk about it. So it's bad enough that he would literally never talk about it or tell Reese or allow Reese to look into his mind. And Reese says that if you even mention it, he goes pale and shaky and won't talk for a few hours. So like, we know that Cassian is an emotional guy. We know that he's in touch with his feelings. Generally, he seems to not shy

37:27 away from those. But that's pretty severe for somebody who's like, oh, it'll take more than snapping wings and breaking bones. To kill me. So this is probably bad my list. I started with Lanthus just because he was like actually terrified of Lanthus, but he faces Lanthus later and he's faced Lanthus before so I don't think it was Lanthus. I have a few theories. 1 The men that he's killed. We know he has a lot of guilt over the men that he's killed. I wonder if he just sees like a sea of corpses of people that he himself has slaughtered.

37:58 I still don't think that would send him reeling though, because he's seen it before. The other one I thought of was Reese Azimore. All dead and like. Oh my God, I just thought of another one which is Reese being sexually assaulted by Amarantha. Yeah, maybe, but this was before that. Oh yeah, you're right.

38:15 Yeah. Maybe his dead mother, maybe his dead father because he killed his father like that has got to cut deep. I also had a thought. I don't think this is true, but it would be interesting if it were Nesta with the full dread trove. Maybe I. Don't know why that would make him never want to talk about it again unless he like felt and saw death in that moment. Which would make sense because he's Lord of Bloodshed. I don't know, I have no idea obviously, but I do think we'll find out because we leave off with Briaxis out in the wild. Briaxis is still free and Reese at some point implies that like AS is going to have to hunt him down at some point. I wonder if Cassian encounters Briaxis again and we find out what Cassian sees.

38:59 Yeah. I don't have a braxis when he comes in saves favor but he doesn't look. He doesn't look, do you think Braxis? And I do think we'll talk more about Braxis at some point. But like, I don't think it's totally clear if like, Braxis appears to you the way the bone Carver appears in like a form.

39:15 Or is this like going into someone's mind like Lamphus does with Nesta and like, showing you your worst nightmares? Like do we know which one it is? I'm written straight up, says you don't want to know. She doesn't go into any further detail when when she's the By the way, she's the only person who knows Bri Axis his name. Brix doesn't know Cassian didn't know Amron knew. Amron was like, yeah, his name is Bri Axis Amron. Why do you know that?

39:42 They're friends, I guess. Yeah. I don't know whether it's mind work, but we know that the Ravens when they see Bri axis start shrieking. So they're seeing something, whether it's in their like mind's eye or whether it's. Well, now that I think about it, I think it's actually seeing, right, because Farrah talks to Bri Axis but won't look at him, right.

40:02 So I think it's something about actually seeing him. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, yeah. OK, we don't know. We don't know, but it's fun to speculate. It is fun to speculate. All right, that wraps up the Acatar section of our episode. So if you have not read Throne of Glass or Crescent City, you should probably go no farther. If you want to be spoiled though, happy to happy to have you.

40:24 Feel free to stay free. Well, for those of you who have read all of Throne of Glass and have read Crescent City, we're going to dive into the mass first. Do you have Cosmos for the mass first? I just have. I can just cover it in the next question here. All right, I have one. Since we're talking about Brie Axis and I'm going to tell you right now, I didn't really do prep for this, but I think it's a fun idea. And since we were just talking about Brie Axis and this was pinged into our, this was posted in our Discord today by 222 Belms.

40:59 I think that's how you say her name. I'm not 100% sure Belms but her her idea on Bri axis. She said she was re listening to Akatar and she noticed this when they brought up re axis. The quote what she wrote is when they brought up re axis it just clicked that Bri axis. What Bri axis asked for when Pharaoh asked him to fight in the war against the king of highborn was sunlight and moonlight and the stars. Ameren says, oh, he wants a window, right? However, re axis never says he wants a window and we're talking sunlight, moonlight and the stars. We have talked about how Nesta has the power of moonlight, right?

41:37 Deanna is the moon goddess and we've talked about how Reese has the power of Starlight and potentially Alan slash Mala has the power of of sunlight. So this is not a hard. I have not really done the research for this theory, just kind of throwing this idea out there like was he asking for a window or was he asking for the unification of these 3 powers?

41:59 Because it could also be Bryce, right? Bryce also has Starlight. So that would bring kind of our three Starborn. Well, we don't know if Alan Starborn, but like our three powerful ladies from across the Mass verse into a single plot if that is what Briaxis is looking for. Yeah, interesting. And does it even need to be? Does it need to be alien or could? I mean, we haven't talked.

42:23 We haven't, I don't know whether we're going to do a High Lord episode, but we haven't talked about Helium. Day Court is sun, and Helium's got this glow thing going on. Like that would be a hell of a character arc for Lucian but I'd be super cure for it if Lucian is some lost star born morning star situation and we wouldn't even have to leave the cosmic worse we've got. That would be fun.

42:48 Yeah, cuz either way it would be fun. Lucian, Nesta and Reese. Yeah, intriguing. Or is it going to somehow end up being because, well, Farah in theory has Reese's Starlight too, So is Elaine somehow going to end up with sunlight? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, with the whole Lucian meeting. Making a lot more sense, I don't know.

43:09 I don't know, I. Don't know, I like it. I am going to do my cousin. Now I have an omission from the Annalius thing. And it's not really about Annalius, but like Illyrians in general. So we'll talk about this in all of the remaining questions in this episode. But Annalius was the first Illyrian. He was created by the staring, right? We know he was a prototype for the Crescent City angels. So in House of Sky and Breath Chapter 73, Ridgelis, who I'm learning is pronounced something totally different in the audiobook.

43:38 So I'm nervous about that. By the way, Rigilous, which is what I say in my head, says our people who built fearsome warriors in that world to be their army, All of them prototypes for the angels in this one, and all of them traitors to their creators, joining the faith to overthrow my brothers and sisters 1000 years before we arrived on Midgard. They slew my siblings.

43:59 This is in reference to the Illyrians. Your Starborn ancestors shut the gates to stop us from invading their realm once more and reminding them who their true masters are, and in the process they shut the gates to all the other worlds, including those to hell. They're stalwart allies. So we know this already.

44:15 We've talked about theories of a Steri hell Val crossovers, but in Rigeless's situation, whatever that is at that point in time, the Astyrian hell are not ally like they are anti, they're against each other in whatever they are in a House of flame and shadow. Chapter 24 Vesperus confirms all of this right? She confirms that the hysteria created the Illyrians, implies that Analius was the traitor and ties him back to originalist's words, saying did Fionn send you then to slay me in my sleep or was it that traitor Analius?

44:45 I see that you bare his dagger as his emissary or his as his assassin. So point being here like Illyrians, we know for sure are created by the Osteria here, not seemingly not hell, right? Because Ridgela says they were a prototype for our angels, the Crescent City angels, the Malik, however you pronounce those. I haven't listened to these audiobooks so you guys can tell me if I'm woefully wrong here, but they rose up against the Osteria said oh, get out and are not seemingly not derived from the Princess of hell.

45:16 This will be important later. Maybe they're from the same home world, but they are not on the same side. And I bring this up because Cassian and Illyrians in general are also paralleled with Apollyon, who is a Prince of Hell and appears as a being with leathery wings. And we know that Illyrians have leathery wings.

45:34 OK, all right. With that, Ronnie, do you want to get it too? Why does the bone Carver call Cassian Prince of Bastards? Yes, so we know the Illyrians were created by the Astiri because I just went on a tirade about it. And Rigilis refers to Hell as the phase allies and the Asteris enemies. So right now I'm going to talk about these as if they are not the same. I'm going to talk about the Asteris and the Princess of Hell as if they are not synonymous.

46:04 I know we have brought theories here where we think that they are. I'm just going to do this as if they're not. Cassian has a really similar origin story to Hunt AKA the Umbra Mortis from Crescent City. In House of Earth and Blood chapter 30, Hunt reveals I was born a bastard and he explains my mother had no money and no distinguished bloodline that might have made-up for it.

46:28 And Bryce later asks what happened to your parents? And he said my mother never told me who my father is. So again we have this father, we don't know who he is. And she was a low ranking Angel. She cleaned the villas of some of the more powerful angels because they didn't trust humans or other venier to do it. She worked day and night to keep me fed and never once complained because she knew that if she did, she'd be out of a job and she had me to think about.

46:51 When I was a foot soldier and sending home every copper I made, she refused to spend it. Apparently someone heard I was doing that, thought she had tons of money hidden in her apartment and broke in one night, killed her and took the money. All 500 silver marks that she had amassed over her life and the 50 gold marks I'd managed to send her after five years in service. So, like, extremely similar stories here, right? Mothers without fathers being worked to death effectively work to death in some capacity, and in both cases Hunt and Cassian feel like they left them.

47:22 In Hunt's case, he has no idea who his father is until later we'll get to them, and Cassian doesn't until he basically hunts him down and rips him to shreds for leaving his mother in the state that he didn't. So they're very similar in this way. They also just like look similar as well so there's that. So Hunt is bastard who we learn was sired biologically by a Malik scientist named Hereus who found and made contact with the Princess of Hell through his research into the origins of Thunderbirds.

47:54 We were in another experimental species and Curious basically said, yeah, I'll help you Princess of Hell. Like I'll do whatever you need me for, for breeding, for your little experiments. I'm game, I'm down. Let's just find a lady, which is kind of a crazy thing to do. Thanatos, who's the Prince of the ravine was ready with his next weapon, like his next recipe, I guess.

48:13 I don't know, I'm picturing a recipe in my head and basically just needed a woman who ended up being Hans biological mother. So Hunt is a biological child of Curious and Hans mother, but has the essence and the abilities of Thanatos and Apollyon. This is all described in Flame and Shadows chapter 61, by the way, if anybody wants to go back in and read, we're going to just put a pause to that because we're going to cover that series. Like we're going to get there.

48:37 Like that's all coming. But it's important because Adis, who is another Prince of Hell, a lot of Princess of Hell, says that Hunt is a son of Thanatos and Apollyon in a vague sense, in the vaguest sense, but he uses that word, right? He basically links Hunt as offspring in a sense to Thanatos and Apollyon. So if Cassian was created in a similar way, right, like Illyrians were created by the hysteria, but could the Princess of Hell interfered and said, actually I'm going to take the Illyrians.

49:08 I'm going to add a little piece of my recipe, whatever it is, and create this new being that will be mine. Maybe they contributed to this in the uprising against against the Daglin in some way and modified the Illyrians, modified Cassian modified as real and they are somehow derived from from the Princess of Hell, which would make him a Prince of bastards. Because anybody who has been modified by these Princess of Hell is kind of a bastard in a way. Like they've got a mother and a father who are not together, they're not wed, which is the definition of a bastard. So you think all Illyrians are?

49:46 I think Kathleen and Azrael specifically, But what? We're talking about Kathleen here. Yeah, okay. That I agree with, because their stories are so similar too, right? They both have sketchy parents, we'll say. Yeah, and maybe it's just Cassian because he's the only one who's been called a Prince yet, but like the Princess of Hell, we haven't been given much reason to believe that they're involved in Prythian yet. But there is a Lord Thanatos in the Night Court, so there is like.

50:11 A link. Somehow like Thanatos is the name on Prythian that has. Been here and Reese know who he is. Yeah, right. Yeah there's one more key piece of evidence here that I think is important for the hunt and Napoleon hunt and Cassian connection. So Apollyon tells hunt I think this is the same chapter chapter 61 Hunt is a Demon Hunter right so hunt like before he meets Bryce his his big job is to go around hunting demons from hell and Napoleon says to hunt.

50:42 Why do you think you're so adapt at hunting demons? It's in your blood. Part of me is in your blood. We also know that Cassian is the one who basically filled the prison, right? So the quote for that is Cassian, unsurprisingly, knew more about the Carver than anyone, thanks to some morbid fascination with all of the prison's inmates, especially since he was responsible for jailing some of them. So is it the same thing where he is so good at hunting down these monsters because they're actually creatures of hell and he has that blood in him too?

51:11 Yep, Yep, that's a good point. Other similarities. They're both mates with a Starborn Fey, right? So go back and listen to our Nesta episode. But Nesta is certainly it's Starborn. They both live on worlds that were conquered by the Osteria. At one point I mentioned, I don't know that it's definite, but we see some instances where it seems like Cassian might have that lightning power, right? Definitely on top of Romeo.

51:33 We were kind of like led to that parallel. I don't know. I don't know if he actually has it. Like, I think probably not, but I think it's maybe supposed to make us think of Hunt. Well, and I think it's supposed to make us think of the fact that at minimum, he was a prototype for Hunt. We're told that in plain English, like, yeah, the Illyrians were a prototype for the Malik.

51:55 So Hunt was a little bit something something from hell. Like, could Cassian also have a little bit of something from No? Sprinkle. Just no sprinkle of hell. Sprinkle A sprinkle, but I actually didn't make the demon connection, but that's a great one. Yeah, Cassian does love to hunt and imprison those demons, so.

52:12 I think the question here is if Cassian is a Prince of Hell, there's two questions, right? Why do the Princess of Hell feel the need to get involved in Prythian again? Right? Because they were involved 15,000 years ago because they was talking to Adis when she was escaping Midgard, right? I think.

52:29 I think that happened on Prythian. Do you remember? I don't remember whether it was on Prythian or in Midgard. I don't. Remember either I think it was on Prythian because I think it was old before they overthrew the Esteri, but if it's wrong we'll correct it later. And is Cassian in some way meant to charge up Nesta the way that Hunt kind of like, charges up Bryce, right? Like, I don't know.

52:49 We talked about them having that very similar sex scene together where their powers seem to flow between them, but we haven't really seen Cassia do that the way we saw Hunt do it for Bryce. Yeah, But I do think there's a very real and likely scenario where even if Cassian isn't able to charge Nesta the way that Hunt charges Bryce, that he was made for her somehow, right?

53:14 Because Hunt was made with the intent of being available for Bryce. Like, what is she? What is the word she uses? It's pretty funny. It's like a battery. Her battery. Her battery. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's her battery, yeah, which is interesting. It gets back to the idea of the Cauldron, right? Like of Cassian waking her because he's ready.

53:31 He's been there. He's ready for her. It's time for her now, right? Like, and is the Cauldron pulling strings there somehow? Like, what's what game is the Princess of Hell are involved? What game are they playing? Why is it being played now? What's what's going on here? You've had that theory that the Daglin are still around.

53:48 I like it. I I feel that it's probably true. We know Vasperis was under the mountain. I don't know what form they're in. I don't know how it's happening. We know that Lanthus says that magic isn't as strong as it used to be. Like, if this is right, then I think that's what we're getting set up for, Yeah.

54:04 Do you think this is a sidebar? Unrelated? Do you think that what Hunt is doing with Bryce is different from Karenam? I don't know, I have thought about this. Well, like Rowan and Ellen need to like bleed into each other, right? Like it's a blood thing for them. Yeah, it's true. No, I don't. Really think it's inspired it. Yeah, maybe it is.

54:25 Because Carrie, like the use of Karen on is when Ellen meets Deanna, right? It's the Valk Princess in air fire. But yeah, you're right. Yeah, but she also doesn't she also do it? She also does it when when they're facing down the I, I think there's at least three times that I can think of. So when they the Valk Princess, when they are facing down the Pirate Valk, I don't fucking really.

54:48 More athlete. Yeah, yeah, the more athlete and then. Yeah, more athlete is what I was thinking of because that's when she tunnels deep and accidentally. Yeah, that's Indiana. Yeah. And then I was going to say when they're facing off the Ilkin in the in the swamp. But I actually think that's not. I don't think.

55:03 I don't think she pulls in Rowan for that one. I think she's alone, that one. Yeah, it could be. So are Nesta and and Cassie and Karina Maybe. Yeah. But we haven't seen it yet. Not really. Have not seen it yet, no. So Cassian feels probable that there was some Prince of Hell interference. Yeah, I know.

55:23 Everyone is always like, oh, Azrael is a Prince of hell. He might be. I don't think we're saying that he's not. We haven't done our Azrael episode. But I do think there's more argument for Cassian based on what we know about Hunt. Yes, I agree with that. All right, this is our last question. So we asked ourselves why is Cassian so much more powerful than the other Illyrians except as Bobby? So we just talked about the Prince of Hell thing. I think that's totally valid.

55:49 I think that's probably the answer here, but there are a couple other Throne of Glass connections that I kind of want to talk through. So first, just about his power in general. Like, it's not just that he's kind of great on the battlefield like he is, but he was this way even as a child. So the quote is beaten every boy in our age group twice over already.

56:08 Cassie went on. But then Reese arrived in his clean clothes and he smelled different, like a true opponent, so I attacked. We both got 3 lashings apiece for the fight, right? So even when he was a child, like he was just stronger, better than everyone. So whatever this is, it's like his, it's him, right?

56:24 It's not like, it's not like he met a witch in the woods and she gave him power, right? Like, like this is him. This is how he's been since childhood. Yeah. We have a couple quotes about Cassian's power. You mentioned the Analias 1. I don't need to read that again. Others we have. It had been a while it seems, since they had seen Cassian an open battle, since they realized that he'd been young in the war.

56:47 And now the looks they gave Cassian as he passed, they were the same as those the High Lords had given Reese upon seeing his power. Like them and yet other. I think that also speaks to the idea that he's more than Illyrian right with it's other with a capital O. So like them and yet other, something else is going on, right? And then in another age, in another world, he might have been deemed a warrior God by mortals. After what he told her about the monsters he put in the prison. He might very well be considered a great hero in this age, the kind that would one day be wistered about around a fire. People would name their children after him. Warriors would want to be him.

57:21 A fine warrior would be known as Cassian Reborn. So like Warrior for the ages, basically, right? Very, very powerful. I did have one note here that I wanted to mention. Whatever his power is, it's not the same as what Reese's power is because Reese's power does not work with the siphons. Reese says that specifically.

57:41 So the quote is I tried to use a siphon during those years, reset and shattered about a dozen before I realized it wasn't compatible. The stones couldn't hold it. My power flows and is honed in other ways. So I think what that means, we talked about Reese isn't staring. We've talked about it so many times, right? But whatever Cassian's power, Cassian's source of power is, it's not Asteri in the way that Reese's right? Like obviously he's Illyrian.

58:05 Illyrians are made by the Asteri. But like, I don't think that it's it's not, it's not the same as being star, right? Like it's not like it's not like the angels are starborn, right? So this power is not the starborn power, whatever his power is. So I think the Prince of Hell thing totally valid, totally valid. Could work.

58:21 Let's talk about some other connections here potentially though as well. So first one I have here and I want to hear your thoughts on it. I think you agree with me. There's maybe something here. We have a Prince of bastards in Cassian. We have a king of Bastards in Brandon Galathinius, right? So Brandon Galathinius, founder of Taurassin, bastard king.

58:43 Every one of his descendants has the mark of the bastard. So he was again a nobody from nowhere. Mala loved him. He became the first King of Tarasan. The quote we have here. This is really long so I don't necessarily need to read all of it, but basically, how do you think Brandon won himself such glory and the Kingdom he was a discarded son of nobody unclaimed by either parent, but Mala loved to fiercely so his flames were sometimes all that held vowed Princess at Bay until we could summon a force to push them back.

59:12 Brandon wasn't royal barn. Brandon wasn't royal born. May have cocked her head. Didn't anyone ever tell you what that mark on your brow means? I was told it was a sacred mark. May his eyes dance with him. Use it. Sacred only because the bearer who established your Kingdom. Sacred only because of the bearer who established your Kingdom. But before that, it was nothing.

59:32 Brandon was born with the bastard's mark, the mark every unclaimed, unwanted child possessed, marking them as nameless nobody. Cassian describes himself as a bastard, born nobody through and through. Right. So like a lot of parallels there with Brandon's kind of origin story and Cassian's origin story. And again, he was loved.

59:50 Brandon was loved by Moll, Cassian is loved by Nesto, who has Deanna's power, who is Mala's sister. If you don't know what we're talking about, go listen to our Nesta deep dive. But I think that's pretty well established in the Phantom at this point. So again, kind of a lot of parallels here, like are we getting some foreshadowing that Cassian will elevate himself to a king before this is all done? I hope so.

1:00:09 That would be really great that. Would be great. Other connections with Throne of Glass world, we talked about this with Tamlin, but I want to talk about it here too. He bites Nesta's neck the way that Aylan and Rowan are constantly biting each other's neck. So there's two times he does does this.

1:00:24 The first time is actually the first time they even hook up. He said the quote is Cassian buried his face against her neck, teeth clamping down lightly atop her fluttering pulse. And then the next one, this is later is she tipped her head back, baring her throat, and he bit down on the center of it hard enough to leave a mark.

1:00:40 Right. So in Throne of Glass World, that biting of the neck is kind of like the mating mark, the claiming mark. So like that's how you mark that you are meets with someone. But we don't see it in Prithea, right? Like Reese never bites favorite's neck. Tamlin bites favorite's neck, but that's a different story. So it's kind of like, where does that instinct come from? Where did he get that idea from?

1:00:58 And again, Nesta closet her back to kind of claim him. Aylan closet Rowan's back to claim her. So we're getting definitely some kind of like parallel stories here. This one I love and this one I texted you about. So I'm very excited to talk about it. Cassian tastes like snow kissed wind and crackling embers and if that is not Aylin and Rowan coated I do not know what the fuck is.

1:01:19 Right, so the quote is a taste of him like snow kissed wind and crackling embers. She moaned, unable to help herself. Aylin smells like Jasmine and lemon verbena and crackling embers and Rowan smells like pine and snow storm winds and seal. It's storm winds and steel, right? So snow kissed wind and crackling embers that has Aylin and Rowan written all over it. The bone Carver, at one point it says to Cassian, I can smell the wind on you, which could just mean that Cassian is an Illyrian and he could fly.

1:01:50 Or the more interesting take is that he has some kind of tie to Rowan right? Because we know that Rowan's power is wind. I have no idea how that would be possible, but I think it'd be really fun. Rowan also has lightning that he can wield, right? So Rowan, you see him yield. We see him wield lightning a couple times. Obviously primarily his power is wind, but he does have lightning most notably when him and alien are having sex on the We also get a little bit of fire imagery with Cassian. So his siphons which are red.

1:02:19 We get a couple quotes from that. Cassian brace his forearms on the broad stone railing. His red siphons like living pools of flame. Allens eyes are often described similarly like living pools of flame. And then Cassian let the siphons atop his back, the back of his hand shimmer with inner fire.

1:02:35 So I'm to deal with these Queens as well as train NASTA. And then that scene I mentioned before, which again I'm going to talk about in Precog when Nesta is scrying for the trove, the room has gotten really cold and Cassian is able to warm the entire room when he starts making out with NASTA. I think we're meant to read that as just like sexual desire, but like maybe it's actually a power, right, because Aylin is constantly warming things up all the time.

1:03:01 So the quote for there is what the hell did you do to pull her out of that Reese ass, Cassie? And didn't really know. The only thing I could think of. You warmed the entire room. I didn't mean to. So again, it's this idea of this just kind of like instinctual power that he doesn't necessarily know that he's has if he has it.

1:03:18 I'm not saying he does, but if he has it, it seems to be more of an instinct around Nesta, right? The lightning to kind of and Thunder to kind of protect her. And then this like warming when she's cold. Like maybe it is just what she needs at that time. Like I don't know. I don't know what that connection would be, but there's definitely kind of parallels in here. Yeah, I like the Cassie and Brandon connection a lot, especially because it does work if it you flow it through Rowan and Alan.

1:03:45 And I wonder if the example that we have with Hunt and the Princess of Hell sanatose takes the abilities of Napoleon and uses it. But what if it doesn't need to be at the abilities of a Prince of hell? Like what if they can take the abilities of of a Brannon or of a descendant of Row and Nail? And what if they can take it from Lydia? What if it truly is a recipe?

1:04:07 Like they can take abilities and inject it into a species. In that way it would work. That's really because I'm thinking. Just like, how do you actually breathe through? I mean, it would have just had to be Faye descended from Alan and bro and that were turned into Illyrian, which doesn't really work because then Cassian's line, whoever his father was, would have had her mother would have had to have had those abilities too.

1:04:34 And I don't think that's true. I think he is way more powerful than his predecessors. I agree, I have no idea how this power could have gotten into him. I don't know what that link would be, unless it's what you were saying before, unless it's something to do with the. Romiel yeah. Like, yeah, maybe.

1:04:50 I don't know, I don't know. We don't have enough subjects who have touched Romiel and I. Think the larger end sign. Yeah, we need the larger end or we need to like get the next book so we can see what's going on with Gwen and Emery. Yeah, just one note because I didn't explain this. I think people know this, but Aylan is a descendant of Brandon. That's why I lumped Brandon, Aylan and Rowan into this one thing.

1:05:13 Lydia is also a descendant of. Brad, Lydia is also a descendant. Exactly. So I mean, if Lydia ended up in well, we know how the nevermind. We know how the. Ara Lydia's lined up at the same time as Midgard, seemingly. Well, so is Alan. Seemingly, seemingly. Seemingly, Yeah. Yeah. TBD on that one.

1:05:29 All right. Did you have anything for this one? I mean I had the Prince of Hell thing. I think the thing to note here you said why is Cassian so much more powerful than the other Illyrians? Except for as like I also think we need to include Reese in this because he is half and I think that I think this could be the threat right?

1:05:46 Like Cassian, Azrael and Reese are all materially more powerful than other Illyrians. For Reese this is very easily explained because he is half Illyrian, half Starborn Fey and we know exactly what he is. For Azrael, he's a shadow singer, so he clearly has something else going on and we haven't delved into what that something else is, but like he has something else. He's not just plain old Illyrian. So for Cassie and it would make sense and feels probable that there is something else.

1:06:13 And I personally went in the direction of Prince of Hell interference. But you're right, like it had to be, it had to be in a similar manner as it was with Hunt where it was at birth, because he's always been, he's always been this way. Yeah, I mean, I think he's probably a Prince of hell. I think that's probably what's going on here. I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean Thanatos calls himself a Prince of death and if Cassian is a Prince of bastards and Nesta is a queen of death, like what is going to happen to Cassian if not become a Prince of death as well, yeah.

1:06:44 Yeah, Thanatos is the one who appears with the leathery wings. Or Apollyon. Apollyon appears with the leathery wings. Yeah, but he can change his appearance. But he appears to hunt with leathery wings. Right. Like, yeah, right. And Thanatos is the one whose name is straight up in the Night Court.

1:07:02 Who's Lord Thanatos? Who's his daughter? Who's his daughter? What difficulties is she having? What assistance does he require? We'll get there. At some point, we will. Talk about it. I think I had a thought but I think I lost it, so I was just going to say Cassian and Hunt have also met, right? Was hot there. Was Hunt there?

1:07:21 I think I know Bryce was there because Bryce went back to get her parents. I think Hunt was there. I don't totally remember that. I don't know 100% remember whatever. They have a connection now. Yeah, I mean, they're gonna meet. Bryce and Nesta are friends. In my mind, they're gonna be friends. Bryce gave Nesta the torch, also known as the Star Sword It. Was like that torch.

1:07:40 She passed the torch. She was like, I got rid of the Esteri, now you get rid of the Esteri. I thought you were saying it because of the star sword glows. I thought so. It's not like setting up for the fact that the Esteri are still sleepers in Prithean. I don't know what is. I told you the only reason.

1:07:58 I think the only issue I have with it is that Sarah J Maas wrote when vespers when vespers did when vespers died. Like the last Esteri in Prithean died but she has straight up lied to us on the page before so like it doesn't really matter. She lied to us on the page. And I also, yeah, I had a dream.

1:08:17 This is insane. I had a dream that the entire plot line of the next Crescent City actually turned into Nesta realizing that the Esteri run through Reese's bloodline. And then there was this whole Nesta versus Reese, and she recruits Bryce's help from Midgard. And basically there's this whole civil war in Prithean to try and get rid of steri bloodlines, because they'll basically took the approach of breeding themselves into the world rather than just ruling it from above and thinking that might like help them survive better. Because then they don't need to Leech other people's power sources, they're just part of them. Yeah.

1:09:00 It's a crazy dream. Wow, I would hate that is. Very detailed and very specific. Very applicable to the exact theories we have on this podcast. Well, I fall asleep reading Crescent sitting so it doesn't help. Yeah, I love it. All right, pre card corner. Pre card corner you want to go first. Sure we might have already covered mine and I just had amnesia but I felt the need to bring it up because we were talking about Cassian's power.

1:09:25 So you brought up a theory, a pre card corner theory about the Illyrian tattoos having like historical meaning and being maybe meant for protection and and now they just start like tradition and so they're still wearing these tattoos. I'm wondering, so in Crescent City we see the crown tattoo as a form of imprisonment right? On Hans forehead on all of these slaves foreheads to the archangels and to theastering.

1:09:53 What if the tattoos in Illyria are actually they are tradition, but they're also imprisonment, and the Illyrians actually have way more power than we have been seeing? Maybe that'll be fun. It just feels like just straight up killing power is maybe at least short for like Cassian and Asriel It's. Yeah, like something could be.

1:10:14 More. Something's putting a damper on maybe their full abilities. Yeah, yeah, that'd be interesting. Could be I like it. Yeah. And could it imply that there's still, this is the theme of the night, I guess, still some very presence on Perthean that's like stifling the Illyrians? Yeah. I mean, my only thing with the tattoos is like, why would they keep doing it after they're free if it was like a form of enslavement?

1:10:39 Unless they kind of like, reclaimed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do I think that's going to come true? No, I don't. But I do think it's interesting that tattoos are made specifically on other winged creatures to damp their power. Yeah, I like it. Sorry. Cool. That's it, that's yours. All right, mine is a little in depth and involved, so stay with me. It originally started, my original thought was that Nesta had made the drop and that Cassian was her anchor. I don't think that anymore, based on what my kind of research into this scene.

1:11:11 So now I'm wondering if Nesta has in fact, already talked to a Prince of Hell. We'll get there. All right, so this is the scene. This is the scene where Nesta is crying for the mask, right? So the quotes we have for how she describes it, as I mentioned at the top of this episode, we get two different points of view for this.

1:11:29 We get Nesta's point of view up until she goes into kind of that void where she finds the trove. And then once she's there, we don't know what happens to her. We switch to Cassian's point of view and he describes kind of what's happening in the room around them. So Nesta's point of view Nesta ease into that darkness as of slowly submerging herself into a pool, falling slowly, drifting like a small stone fluttering to the bottom of a on still she drifted in liquid night.

1:11:54 Cassian's arm brushed hers and she let that anchor her too. A lifeline out. She took his hand with her free hand and interlaced their fingers. Let the touch ground her as she allowed the last of her mind to slip beneath the black surface. Right, so we get this imagery of her submerging into a pool basically, right?

1:12:13 We have Mystics. We talked about the Mystics last episode. We're going to talk about them this episode too. We have Mystics in Midgard who are submerged in pools, right? They are submerged in pools. And what they do, as we talked about last episode, is cast their minds out into the universe to kind of find things, find people, answer questions. We have a scene in House of Earth and Blood where they where Bryce and Ethan are looking for Connor and they go to the Mystics and they want to find Connor's soul. They want to know where Connor's soul has ended up. So they go to the Mystics to find Connor's soul and one of the Mystics ends up in hell.

1:12:50 And the way that he describes it, similar to what Nesta has said here, she talks about an inky blackness, right? The Mystic says too dark, the astronomer red, it is too dark to see only here, right? So we have this darkness that is hell. Nesta also asks a question into eternity. The way that the astronomer kind of asked the question, where is Connor Hulstrom Seoul.

1:13:09 So Nesta says the mask, she whispered, casting her mind into the eternity. Where is the mask of the dead trove? Where is the mask? The Mystics asked. Where's Connor Holstrom? I mentioned this before. It gets so cold in the room when Nesta is scrying. We have 123456 quotes about this. All right, so now it's chilled frantum breeze. This is all.

1:13:32 Cassian drifted past him, the hair on the back of his neck stood. Ameren let out a soft hiss. Where is she wandering to? Nesta's hand remain over the map, but her fingers in his hand had gone cold as ice. Across the table, Azrael's breath clouded. Re stepped closer to Farah, positioning himself to intercept any unexpected threats. Before any of them could answer, Nesta's eyelid shifted like she was seeing something.

1:13:57 Her brows bunched just a quiver towards each other. Her fingers tightened on the stones and her bones. On the stones and bones, knuckles going white still. The air grew colder. Nesta's hand remained shut, but her eyes moved rapidly behind their lids, searching, seeking. So that's what the Mystics do too, right?

1:14:13 Their eyes go back and forth when they're searching for answers. Next quotes. The cold kept dropping. Nestas hand tighten in his a hard squeeze. Cassian kisses her and her mouth is literally crusted with hoar frost. Right so she is frozen. She is literally frozen when the Mystics in Crescent City end up in Hell.

1:14:31 It also gets super cold, so the quotes there. The male is reaching Hell's orbit. The astronomer clicked his tongue. He's much faster today. Impressive. Can you pinpoint where and how your Mystic is actually? Ethan indicated the holographic levels far below. Not precisely, but judging by the cold, I'd say deep.

1:14:50 Perhaps the chasm itself. Right, so the room around them is getting cold. The astronomer. So the warm bass that the Mystics are in begin to freeze over. So the quote is another long pause. We need to stop this. Ethan nodded towards the male tubs. Ice was beginning to inch over the water. The floor begins to ice over like it's same thing.

1:15:09 Like Frost is basically covering the room when this Mystic is out talking to hell. Yeah. We don't know what happens to Nesta when she goes into the Cauldron or when she's crying for the Cauldron. So she gets an answer, but we don't know who is from. She gets like she hears a voice and it says in the beginning and in the end there was darkness and nothing more, right.

1:15:32 We are kind of led to believe this was the Mother because she's heard this in the Cauldron before and the Mother has been talking to her. The quote is she had first heard the truth, understood it during her battle with the Cauldron, and understood it again now as she floated in that same strange place, both full and empty, forever cold.

1:15:48 Where is the mask? She asked the Void, right? So we have this voice that's coming back to her from the Cauldron, and she says she's asking the Void. The Princess of Hell are birthed from the Void and the Chasm, Right? So like, I think she's actually gone to hell here. I think she's gone to hell to ask where is the trove, Right. Yeah, the Mystic talks to Thanatos when he goes to hell and asks where Connor Holstrom Seoul is. Like is Nesta Oscar talking to Thanatos? I don't know.

1:16:18 Could be a Polygon, could be Thanatos, could be. Any of them, yeah. Could be any of them, but how does this work? Like there's so many similarities to this scene. I'm like 90% sure at this point that her consciousness has gone to hell. But like why when she's crying for the cauldron for the trove, has her mind gone to hell? Is it?

1:16:35 Is it? I think it ties into your idea before that like the Princess of hell fucked with something somewhere. Like fucked with the Asteris plans, maybe even fucked with the cauldron unknowingly. I don't know but like. Yeah, I mean the Princess. Of hell fitted to this. One of two things right? It's the Cauldron has a link to the Princess of Hell, or has a link to hell somehow, or it's Nesta.

1:16:56 Yeah. Well, I think what's interesting is that as specifically says that this didn't happen the last time she scribed for the Cauldron. So it's something about this time. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know what that would be. And this is the time that Cassian kisses her to pull. Her out. This is the time that Cassian kisses her. Yeah.

1:17:14 The other fun part in here, so this might actually say that it points to Nesta rather than the cauldron, is when the astronomer realizes that Thanatos is like attacking the Mystic, he starts praying to Luna, who is the Crescent City version of Deanna, Right? So he says, Luna, guard me. Your bow bright against the darkness, your arrows, like, silver fire shooting into hell, Right.

1:17:36 So like, does Nesta actually have some inherent power that can defend against hell? Like is that actually what's happening here? I don't know, but it's an interesting like Luna Deanna connection, not where I expected it. Luna Deanna hell connection, I guess I should say. But it almost feel like like it would be a power from hell, right?

1:17:56 Because like it's cold fire, right? Like that's her power. It's cold. Yeah, it seems like Nesta herself could be linked to hell. But I also wonder whether, I mean, we have this concept of world walkers, like people who just can. Maybe that was our first sign. And she has been a key character in this interaction between Prythian and Midgard.

1:18:21 Like is Nesta the next World Walker? Is she just a world Walker? Yeah, yeah, maybe. I'm not clear how that works without the horn, but like so there's just people who can walk. Between just could. Yeah, may have just. Well, did she need the word keys? No, she did. She just wanted to get rid of the word keys I thought. Yeah, we have to.

1:18:38 I don't remember, but she certainly. Says there were, there were. There were world walkers. She says that. So whether she was one or wasn't, those existed. Wayfarers, World walkers, whatever. Well, and so I was going back and looking at my notes about when we were debating Prince of Hell versus Steri versus Valve versus death.

1:18:56 God not again, don't have answers for that, but one of the things that the Esteri say about the Princess of Hell is that they learned their world walking weights. I actually have the exact quote. I can get it. So the quote is learned from our captured lieutenants. How to slip between the cracks and realms, right?

1:19:14 So if Nesta is connected to hell, maybe she is a world Walker. I like that. I think that's intriguing. It's interesting because slipping through cracks in the world always made me think of winnowing, too. Yeah. Like, I mean, I guess baby world walking you just. I guess that means that Ameren is definitely a world Walker, right? By this definition, you mean because she showed up in Prithean as well.

1:19:36 She slipped. She slipped through a crack in the world, Right. That's like, word for word what she did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then she can find herself. Yeah. And I mean, that would make sense, right? Because Amarin sees Neston is like I am your tutor now. Yeah, she says. We're the same, you and I. Yeah, yeah.

1:19:54 Maybe it wasn't just being made. Maybe they're both world walkers. Again, I don't think Amarin is made the way that Nesta is made, right? Like we're using that word way too loosely. Yeah, well, it's it like it also just this is not our Amarin episode. We will have an Amarin episode. But it also she says that she's made because she is trapped in this body that was made for her. That is not her true form.

1:20:18 Like that's how she's defining made, but she made that body, so is she just making things? What is she? Yeah, not our Ebern episode. Not our Ebern episode. I had a kind of follow up precog to that one, which these were kind of be two different precogs, but I as I did this theory, I kind of think they turned into the same one.

1:20:41 You mentioned before that perhaps Bree Axis appeared to Cassian as Nesta wielding the trove. I think that happened, but I think the Bone Carver did it. I think the Bone Carver appeared to Cassian as Nesta as quote UN quote death. So the quote we have there is this is Cassian and Feyre going to see the Bone Carver at the beginning of Akawar to ask him for their help.

1:21:04 His help? The quote is a light chuckle within. The amusement faded from Cassian's face at the sound. As we walked into the cell, still hand in hand. The orb of Fey light bobbed head illuminating the stone and hewn cell. Cassian growled at what it revealed who it revealed field wholly different, no doubt from the same same young boy who now smiled at me. So the kind of thing I stuck on to here, I stuck on to here is Cassie and growled.

1:21:28 The only person Cassie and growls out without saying anything in this whole series is Nesta, right? So he like kind of growls at her when they're having sex, but like the only time he truly growls is with Nesta. And we know the bone Carver kind of shows. Well, I am postulating that the bone Carver shows you your future because he appeared to Reese as Jurian, right?

1:21:50 Who was going to play a big role in Reese's future. And he appears to Farah as Nix, who obviously was going to play a big role and Pharaoh's future. So I think the bone Carver appeared to Cassian looking like Nesta, but looking like not the Nesta he knew, right, Looking like this like death version of Nesta. I don't know.

1:22:10 That's just freak out there. Just throwing that out there. I like it, yeah. The only thing that and it it still works because because Pharah seeing Nick's it was not supposed to scare her seeing Nick's. Well Cassian has said and maybe this is just evidence that that it wasn't what he saw in re Axis.

1:22:29 Like Cassian has said, Nesta could never scare me. Yeah, right. But I don't think that right exactly that bone Carver is not supposed to be. Scary Bone Carver is not trying to scare you, but it is trying to show you the future. Yeah, I think so. So remember last episode where I said there's no true prophetic being in Perthian? I take it back.

1:22:46 Bone Carver, absolutely, 100%. Bone Carver is prophetic being. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. All right. Anything else for Cassian? Nope, that was a fun one. All right, we did that in under 2 hours. Holy shit. All right, Ronnie, what are you reading? Same thing I was reading yesterday. I mean, I'm reading Crescent City.

1:23:05 I am definitively. I think it's it's been several weeks. I've been in denial. I think I'm officially in a reading slump. I'm sorry. I'm just like, not. I'm not reaching for books right now. Yeah. It's sad. Yeah. You're busy. We're both busy. Yeah, what are you reading? Yeah, still an empire. I'm kind of in a reading slump too. I mean, things have just been really busy. So I'm still reading Empire storms. I think 2 weeks ago this I wouldn't be done by now, but I'm not done right now.

1:23:31 Right now. But I'll probably just closeout throw out of glass. I don't know, I am kind of craving a break. But then I think we talked about this last episode. Whenever I read something that's not good enough immediately, I'm just kind of like, no, fuck that. I want to reach out of glass, you know what I mean? Yeah like I'm not really giving books. I'm giving books like 2 chapters to like which baby isn't fair. I kind of think if I'm not enjoying at least the style after two chapters I'm probably not going to enjoy it, but I if I'm going to like a book I do like it early. Like it.

1:24:01 I don't have an issue with slow starts or anything. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Like, yeah, I feel like I know pretty quickly if I'm going to like a book or not. Yeah, yeah. And in times that I have been like, no, let me persevere because I'm not giving this book enough time. I'm like no, I actually just hate the whole fucking book. Yeah, yeah, it's not good.

1:24:23 All right, that was our Cassian episode. You can find us on social media at Dragons in the Details pod, on Instagram Talk and YouTube. We have a Discord server that's Dragons in the Details that is LinkedIn, our show notes. And as always, e-mail us with any questions. questionsvariouscommentsconcernsdragonsanddetailspod@gmail.com. That's it for this week.

1:24:47 Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye.