Onyx Storm Deep Dive: Breaking Down Rebecca Yarros' Latest Bombshells

0:00 She said she's excited to write the moment that Violet realizes why Zayden married her. Wouldn't you be excited if you found out that your husband married you to give you a black dragon army? Sure. Would you? Sure. You sure? Would you? Sure. Would and so would I. Ask and you shall receive. Hello, everyone.

0:40 Hello. It's Dragons after dark. It's a little Dragons after dark guys. It's a little did. I'm sitting out of bed. So, you know, this is weird, but I'm Abby and I'm Ronnie and we are not doing our usual thing today so we don't have an inscrow. We are going to talk about Rebecca Yaris's interview that has literally taken over the Internet. Hold on, we are Dragons in the detail. All right, started all over.

1:07 This is Dragons in the details, where we usually talk about your favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. This is not that. Well, I guess it is, but we're revisiting a series we talked about a very long, very long time ago, because this is reacting to Rebecca Yaris's interview at Disney, at Romancey Book Con Indeed, Romancey Book Con Orlando.

1:31 The Internet has, well, I don't know. The Internet has certainly blown up for me now that I have searched it once. I feel like there's a lot going around about this. Interview. I mean, let's set some context. I assume if you have clicked on this episode you know what the interview is. But for some context? Fantasy Fangirl interviewed Rebecca Yaros at As we now Know, Romantic.

1:50 See book Con. Doing the Lord's work. Doing the Lord's work. Thank you, fantasy fangirls. We appreciate you. We appreciate you. Until today, I had not actually watched the interview. There were a lot of clips floating around online about the interview, but I had not watched it from beginning to end because I was kind of like, I was kind of nervous to do it for two reasons. One, as you all know, we are deep in our mass first world. And I was like, oh man, do I want to open this Empyrean door again?

2:19 I don't know how I'm going to feel about it. We were like a little burnt out on it by the end. Like do we want to do this? So it was door number one and then door #2 I was like, what if we got everything fucking wrong? What if we were so off base and we find it all out in this interview? Yeah, I was, I was telling you this earlier, but I think and for our listeners, this is going to be my philosophy. I've worked on this a lot with my therapist. OK?

2:41 This is not a record keeping, a score keeping episode. We are not a score keeping podcast. This is simply new information that may change some of our theories because we are definitely not going to be right about everything. No, no. But I agree with you, I was definitely like I also I don't typically watch interviews of authors.

3:04 Like I don't typically look to the authors spoken words for information on a book. This is actually a very new concept to me and I'm not honestly sure how I feel about it, but I'm I'm in it now like here I am. Yeah, I mean, I have a couple of things. So first of all, I watched the interview and then I was like, what the fuck was I thinking? I love this world.

3:24 So then I obviously went back and reread the throne scene because I had to for research purposes obviously of course. Love the way Rebecca does an interview and holy shit did she give us a ton of information. I know it doesn't seem like she did, but I think she gave us so much information. She did that interview. I think she gave us a lot.

3:44 OK, she gave us a lot. Holy shit. She gave us a lot of information in that interview. So well done Rebecca. She's such a good interview. This was. Just like you, Rebecca. Snaps all around. Thank you, Rebecca. Really quick. We just have to say before we get into this because I'm really worried that we're going to forget there are spoilers for all 3 Empyrean, 4th Wing, Iron Flame, Onyx Storm. I know this is an informal episode, but I just want to make sure everybody is aware.

4:08 If you continue listening, there will be spoilers. We're going to talk about everything. We also curse. So this podcast is rated R. Please do not listen to it with your children. And as you can tell, this is not a formal episode. We don't have an outline. This is kind of off the cuff. We have it super prep, so this one's just going to be loosey goosey guys, but we definitely have thoughts and reactions and it'll be fun. Yes, OK, Should we just step through like everything she said and decide whether we care or not? Yeah.

4:33 Do you really, Do you want to go through like every single we could? We could go through every question and decide if we're going to talk? About it, I mean, I think there are some things where we could just have like a one line reaction that's still fun. For example, her reaction to Obolite was like, there's no way Taylor Swift knows my name. Taylor Swift, read your book, ma'am. There's no way.

4:50 There's no way, listening to that album that Taylor Swift has not read the Empyrean series and the works of Sarah Janet. There's no way. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I. Mean, I don't know if there is a way, I don't know whether Taylor Swift is reading these books, but the fact that Rebecca Yaris is like, there's no way she knows my name, ma'am.

5:10 No, I think she probably does. I think she probably does. What did you make? Because I'm not the Swifty. I think our listeners know that. What did you make of the Life of a Showgirl song that describes Book 4 being cancelled? So I do think this is something we talked about and were spot on about. South Cancelled.

5:27 Have you heard the song? No, I don't know. So the concept, the concept of the song is basically Taylor, because Taylor Swift has had so much experience being cancelled herself. It's basically her saying that she likes her friends cancelled. Like she's down for her friends to have quote cancelled reputations because like fuck it, everybody gets cancelled. It's kind of like a fuck you to just media and society at large. So her whole like the whole course is good thing. I like my friends cancelled.

5:59 So I think that this is really about and she said this right, like Violet being left in this very precarious social situation with her friends and her all who are going to be under massive scrutiny because Zayden just like massively Venand in front of everyone, Massively Venand turned the whole valley dark.

6:20 So, So yeah, I think it definitely had notes of what we were talking about with her having a very tough, tough first few chapters at least, if not the the full book. That makes sense from a friend's perspective. I'm also thinking about it from like a political perspective because, yeah, as you said, Venom Zaden, not venom Zaden massively venom all over the Valley.

6:40 But like, yeah, like every everyone in a position of power in Orisha is going to be really fucking pissed at her, in my opinion. Yes or yeah. So cool. All right, now, we learned something today. All right. She talked about the showrunner. I don't really have any reactions to the show. I do. Well, she talked about the graphic novel first.

7:01 Oh, yeah, she did. You're right. And she talked about, I think a little bit what we talked about, which is that the art component of it is going to be really interesting and, like, what choices do you choose to put where? And she said there was going to be Easter eggs in there, which I'm really.

7:12 So I think, fuck, now I'm going to buy the graphic novel, you know? Oh yeah, I mean, we're she knows what. She's doing, she knows what she's doing, she does. But she said that's not going to, I think that's not even going to come out till after Book 4. So we'll have to see about that. Yeah, I feel like that's intentional.

7:26 I feel like there's going to be some visual stuff in there. Definitely, I do have thoughts on the showrunner and they're not good thoughts, unfortunately. She said one of the new showrunners was the writer of Interstellar. I don't know if you know this about me, I hate Interstellar. I think Interstellar is one of the worst movies for me. But what?

7:48 Yeah, I hate it. I hate it. I think it's so fucking dumb. I think it's so dumb that he had this epic you agree to disagree on. We can agree to disagree. We can agree to disagree. You know, I'm still excited about the show. I think it'll be great. But Interstellar was not my bad guys. It's fine.

8:05 There are people who make very different works of art. Rebecca herself, in fact, it's going to be very author. I'm excited about it. Yeah, that's so true. Do we know anything about her contemporary novel or did she just like immediately jump into press for? The next thought, So actually they asked about it, thinking that that was going to be like an easy question.

8:26 Actually, I thought this was one of Rebecca's funniest moments of the interview. They were like, can you tell us anything about the contemporary that you're that you're working on? She's like, no. And they were like, really, she was like to Google me. And they fall in love. Yeah. All right, All right, all right, all right.

8:42 Yeah. So no, we don't know anything. We don't know anything. Two people meet and they fall in love. Two people meet, they fall in. Love. She did say that it's a trope that she's never written before. But I will confess that I've not read Rebecca Yaros other works so I don't know. I haven't. She hasn't hasn't written.

8:58 But I'm open to it. I'm open to it. All right. Next question we had, which I don't, I didn't have any thoughts on, but why did you name, why did Rebecca call King Tari, King Tari the wise? And what she said was it's a joke basically like he chose that name for himself, but he's really fucking dumb.

9:14 I didn't think they were trying to probe if there was a connection to Hidotis. I never thought there was a connection to Hidotis with King Tari. I don't really have any notes on this one. I don't think we ever talked about it. On to the next one. Yeah, no, yeah, I thought it was funny. She just goes because he's not.

9:29 It's ironic. It's ironic, bitches. Yeah, The next one I think was about Papa Atos being stationed at the coastal outpost before he came back as general. And I think they asked what was he up to out there before he came back. And she said things I can't tell you about basically, and they were like any reason we haven't learned it yet? She said it's an unwieldy cast.

9:52 Many people are doing many things. It's like, no shit, Rebecca obviously. So that was a non answer, which probably means it's important. I mean like we this whole interview was notes of Papaytos is indeed nefarious. Yeah, I mean, I think he was being a venom. I think he was off doing venom things, doing venom shit. I don't have much more on that.

10:13 She did make fun of the Orange Dragons being evil theories, which we do not I we don't subscribe to that really. I don't feel like the show. I will. Die on the hill like I will riot in the streets if man on my. Heart I love image I'm totally. Agree with you, all of you out there who are like she is doing shit without violence.

10:33 Consent will get there. Like we're going to talk about that, but don't come after image. You might not like where this podcast goes. It's OK. I mean, we might not like where the book goes. Who's who's to say? Who's to say? OK, I think we are now finally into our first really interesting question and the things that she revealed in this question.

10:52 I don't know if you feel the same way. So the question that was asked was how would Papa Sorengal feel about Zaden and Violet's relationship? Oh wait, did we skip the stuff that she revealed about Pop? She revealed a few things about Papa Atos. They don't matter. Sure, let's. Call them out? Sure, we can call them out.

11:08 So Papa Atos has a red dragon. She did say like father, like son and then said everyone relax because obviously we were all about to panic. But of course not because Lilis dragon was brown. So like, obviously that's not how it works. I thought, I mean, she did say that that was why we would panic, but I thought she thought we would panic because he's obviously fucking evil and it would be a real shame if Dane ended up being also fucking evil. Yeah, yeah.

11:37 His breath is not as bad as cats. The Dragons, apparently. And the 1st letter of General Atos's name is G. So I'm going to assume Greg until told otherwise. So, Greg? Atos, guys, I just in my head I was like, what if his name is just General? I wouldn't die. She has the opportunity to do the funniest thing.

12:01 She won't them. OK, yeah, sorry. Let's go. Let's go to the next one. All right, General or Greg choose your own adventure there guys. All right, so first really interesting question here, or at least first interesting answer reveal. So the question was how would Papa Sora go feel about Zetan and Violet's relationship?

12:18 Rebecca gave us so much, and this surprise, so #1 he'd be shocked at first that she wasn't with Dane #2 he'd be accepting. So these are the stages of grief, right? We're on the acceptance #3 he had insight into the rebellion that wouldn't necessarily pit him against aid. And this is the fucking tidbit of information that is so juicy, All right? And they didn't follow up.

12:44 Fantasy fangirls. You are doing the Lord's work. But hello. What ties? He ruined his books. You guys follow up. All right, all right, So what Ronnie is referring to is there are runes on Asher's books. We have asked this question before. A. How did Asher know what the runes were? Because it seems that no one in Navarre knew what runes were.

13:00 B. Who put the fucking runes on Asher's books? Because Asher did not have any access to magic. See see so many examples that Asher was actually part of this rebellion and tied to this rebellion and new fed right? So again, we didn't heavily prep for this episode. If you want to go back and listen to our theories, you can. But like this to me, he had insights into the rebellion. I think he has to have been working with the rebellion. I think like there's so much evidence at this point, which we talked about this in our Lilith and Asher episode raises a lot of questions about Lilith and what she was doing and whether she was also a rebel, right?

13:34 I don't know. I don't know but we have asked those questions in our Lilith and as your deep. Dive so I mean this feels like puzzle pieces that are falling together over time not will fall together like are actively Lilith ran into Zaden and Violet coming out of that chamber after Varish died and Lilith was like who did you kill?

13:53 Zaden was like everyone. Lilith was like cool like first flag. OK, maybe Lilith not batting an eye that everyone that apparently serves her is dead down there is a problem is maybe a sign of suspicion. And yeah, he had access to the aisles. There were runes on his books. Yeah, Asher was tied to the rebellion. Well, and the question is right, like how, how involved was he? Like did Asher know Zaden?

14:19 Like was he like really involved? Did he really know Fenn? Like has like Zaden been keeping this a secret from Violet the whole time that his that her father was actually like a hardcore rebel? I don't know. I guess you could know Zaden because we don't have that much insight into Zaden's mind.

14:35 It would be pretty surprising if their families really knew each other, because it seems like Violet would probably allude to knowing Fen better. Yeah, true, true. No, I was just thinking Asher might know. Know. Yeah, maybe not really. Not that they're getting together for barbecues or anything, but yeah, All right. Any any more on that?

14:59 One. No, just Asher's tied to Tear. Door Asher was a rebel, guys. Asher was certainly a rebel, and we don't know what that means about Lilith. All right. What are the titles of his three other books? He wrote them. That's the sorry that was the question. Or what are the titles of his three other books?

15:14 She said no. She said no, I don't really know why. She said Violet knows but doesn't think they're important enough to tell us. I assume they're about Loyola, Malik and Amari. Like that's all I got. I don't like if Violet doesn't think they're important enough to tell us. I don't think they're that important, but obviously we have a lot to know about the gods still.

15:31 Yeah, and I think they'll probably be important later and maybe she just doesn't know exactly how yet, so she can't really hit much. That's fine. I respect the fact that sometimes we're not allowed to know things. That's completely fine. But I do think, and we'll get to this later, but I do think we're going to Loison. To Loison, Yeah, I think we're probably. Going to Loison too.

15:53 Percentage of asteroids research left to uncover No, we don't get an answer to that. No, we got a no. We got a no. Let's talk about Dan and Sloan. She replied with an is there a Dan and Sloan, which was a little bit hard but. We got we got more on Papa Sorengal's research. What else She. Said no, but so OK, she said no. But then she said she's plotting four and five together. She hasn't figured out where she's going to reveal the rest of his research.

16:19 And then what she said was she wrote things in book one that will have reveals for book 4. So I went back and looked at what she wrote about Ashers research in book 1 and what she wrote about was the Krovlin Uprising. And I think that will be important. And you should check out our history Part 2 in episode maybe Part 1. I don't remember where we dove really deep into the Krolin uprising.

16:40 But I think the reason why the Krolin Uprising is going to be important is because they broke into Tier Endor. The the Krovlish Krovlish rebellion rebellers broke into Tier Endor to steal dragon eggs, not to the veil. They did not try to go to the veil. They tried to scale the cliffs of trailer and get into tier Endor. And the question for that is why we're going to get into that later.

17:01 Yeah, Yep. You're talking about the second Crowland. Uprising. I am talking about the second Crowland uprising, yes. Yes. Then she was asked about Dana and Sloan. She said is there a Dana and Sloan, which I thought was mean, but she clearly has thought about it. When asked why do you ship them and why do you think they'd be a great fit together?

17:20 And she basically said because he's so rigid and such a rule follower and she just does not give a fuck. That's cute. I'm. Not so much to add there. That we got some very enthusiastic questions about broccoli. I personally, I actually don't need as much on broccoli, but I appreciate, I appreciate the broccoli fans.

17:38 If anyone was wondering, broccoli rides Dragons in a jacket because it's currently a baby maybe? He's in Drake's jacket. Yeah, we did get a little bit of a hint that he's probably going to be what brings Mira and Drake together, Rebecca said. Maybe he needs to be babysat by a rider who's recovering. Who's a rider that's recovering after that battle? Probably everybody, Probably Mira. Probably Mira who got her throat slit, yeah. And whose dragon was out of Commission for basically the entire thing.

18:09 So. So Broccoli is going to be babysat by Mira, and Drake will be forever grateful. And that's how the best love stories are made. Then we get a small segment about Broccoli being annoying because because broccoli is orange. It was like an actually very long part of the interview. Way too much of this interview spent talking about broccoli.

18:31 All right, Yeah. All right. So for the next question, interesting things happened again, I think. So the question that was asked was basically, what is the process of being dedicated to a God? And what Rebecca said was it depends on the level of dedication. So now we're learning their levels of dedication.

18:49 She says, were you taken to the temple? Were you just on the island? And then she says do you remember what the priestess? What the priestess asked Violet when she first met her. Violet met 2 priestesses. I'm I'm not 100% sure which one she's talking about. She was talking about. Proud. Do you dye your hair like us? Yeah.

19:05 The one the crowd thought that she was talking about was when the priestess asked her, Do you dye your hair like us? And Violet said no, What was it Rebecca was then like? So do you know what that means? And the fantasy fangirl said something and then Rebecca whispered onto her breast. She said no, something else. So there was something that they missed. I think they said it means she was dedicated. And then under her breast, she said no, something else. So what we talked about that line meaning was that this means that she was clearly dedicated on the aisles, right? Because on the aisles they don't on on Brielle, they don't have to dye their hair.

19:37 But we already knew that like that was already kind of confirmed. Violet figured that out herself. So I don't know if that is the reveal that Rebecca is going for here, because when Violet is talking to Mira and Brennan about their father dedicating her, she says no, he took me to unbriel. So I don't know if there's another reveal here or if that was just the reveal that she was referring to. But what that does mean, I think what we can confirm, what we've previously inferred, but what we can confirm is that you are only kind of permanently marked by a God. If that happens on.

20:08 An aisle, right? So I know people have speculated that maybe Zadan has been dedicated to loyal and that's why he has the gold flecks in his eyes, right? And I would say this supports that theory that he was dedicated on Loyson basically. Like they think Talia might be from Loyson. I think this would support that theory if Zadan was dedicated on Loyson.

20:29 I don't have anything else to back that theory up, but I think what we know now is that if you're dedicated on an aisle, you are permanently marked by that, basically. Yeah, that section overall was very, very odd to me because it felt like felt like she was putting something down that was not getting picked up. I know.

20:48 Specifically, but I did interpret it as, and I think she confirmed, like I think she said specifically what did the priest say to Violet on the continent, which would have been the hair dyeing. I can go back and check, yeah. It was hard to hear, guys. Yeah, it was hard. To hard interview it. Was hard.

21:05 It was hard to. Just a janky bootleg version basically. Yeah, But I agree it was it was not really that much of A tell unless she felt like maybe the question was kind of not actually that revealing and she was just explaining something that was not that that hard to reveal. Because yes, like we know that true permanent dedication has to happen on on Braille, on the constant. Or on a on an aisle.

21:29 Yeah, sorry, dedication to doom. Yeah. That's happening. There was a second part to this. Did you? Did you have anything for that? Yeah. All right. So she said anything to do with magic in the aisles. I've already told you. Already told? You in the books. You just have to find it. So do you want to go first here? Yeah, I think the magic is channeled through the sky. I think there's actually a couple options here, to be fair. So she said anything to do with magic on the aisles? How magic is channeled on the aisles? I've already told you in the books, you just have to find it. We see a couple times.

22:07 I'll call like quasi confirmed. One very much confirmed a couple quasi confirmed times that magic was used on the aisles. 1 is the fact that Violet can just speak with her Dragons that I would argue could just be Andarna but still like the magic is moving through. Like where is Andarna getting the magic? Probably from the sky.

22:27 And then the other is Violet accidentally lightning wielding seemingly on unbreal during the battle against the queen in which like she basically like breaks this area of the arena. I forget because I haven't read these books in forever, but seems like the magic is moving through the sky I. Think this actually might tell us a couple interesting things, because if you remember, the aisles seem to be completely drained, right? They go onto the aisles and they're super pale and they're completely drained, but Violet still seems to have access to some magic.

22:55 I totally agree. It's coming from the sky and maybe this is obvious. It seems like what has happened is there used to be magic in the land of the aisles. The venom have come through. The venom might still even be there. We think that for Hidotis and have drained the aisles of the magic in the land, except for the hell not. Maybe they haven't gotten there yet. Maybe it has something to do with the ears. But what that means is that the venin and me again, maybe this is obvious, but the venin can't like drain or access sky magic, right?

23:21 It has to be from the lamp, right? Like I think that's kind of an important distinction here, which means I don't know what that means for the venin and the ear. It's right. Does that mean they like can't use the ears? Or does that mean they need the ears in order to be a conduit to that sky magic? If the ear is are the conduit to the sky magic? Or maybe I'm talking in circles and that doesn't make any sense. We've never seen a Venin touch an Irid. We've never seen a van and touch an Irrid. We don't know what happens, but Irids are like physical things that Channel from the sky.

23:51 I don't know. Presumably we don't know that we're just. We're just making. We're assuming. We're also assuming we are assuming on the sky thing. Like I I I feel pretty good about that being the case, especially since Violet commands the sky. Well, here's the other thing that is. That is really interesting actually, though I don't know if we talked about it now or later.

24:11 If the aisles have been drained of their magic, if they are pale like they talked about, they're not the barons, right? Like the barons are like desolate wastelands, but the aisles are not. So what I is the like, whatever is protecting the aisles, whether it's the gods or the sky magic, it's the gods. So the gods are protecting the aisles from complete devastation like we had in the barons, which means what's going on with Amari, right?

24:37 Because like the Barons technically fall under Amari jurisdiction. Why didn't she kind of protect the Barons? Yes, I hope people are following what I'm saying right now. Yeah. I also, sorry, yeah, we didn't prep for this, but you said protected by the gods. I think it's also important to note that we know that the gods have power as well.

24:58 So like it doesn't even need to just be these aisles are protected by the gods. That power could literally be the gods power. The power of the gods could be what's available on on Brielle, what's available on Lois. Right, and that would make sense why Violet seemingly can channel channels her lightning. She can always talk to and Dharna and Taryn, but she channels her lightning on on real because she is channeling directly from Dune, because she's touched, because she's touched.

25:27 And if you guys forget about the power of the gods, go back to our Gods and Isles episode and like every single episode where we talked about the power of the gods because of that epigraph. Yeah, there's an epigraph in summary that says there's something the power of the gods, the rest of us are riders.

25:41 That basically makes it seem like actually being a rider with a dragon is a step down from having the power secondary. Yeah, being dedicated to the gods actually gives you a lot of fucking power, it turns out. OK so we are saying ground magic in the aisles gone. Sky magic still in play. Protection or Power of the Gods, also in play, may be different from Sky magic. May be different from sky magic, but also maybe not. We don't know.

26:04 Maybe just the magic of the aisles and what's in the ground is gone because of the venom, and what's in the sky is safe. Yeah. Because that would mean that everything that's interesting, that would mean that everything that's available on the continent would still be available from the sky, even in the barons.

26:20 It would be interesting to see what happens with. If Violet can wield in the Barons. Yeah. Within Dorna and the barons. Well, I don't know if she'd be able to wield in the barons because she's not touched by Amari or. Yeah, but if she can still communicate. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We got to give violence to the barons. OK.

26:36 Got to test this hypothesis. Pack your bags, girlfriend. All right, can you can you guys tell? We haven't talked about this book in so long, but it's lovely. It's so nice to be back here. I've I've enjoyed this so much all. Right. So this next 1 is my favorite, I think maybe my second favorite, but like one of my favorite answers that we got. All right.

26:55 So the question is any additional insights into Niara and who she is as a person? Ronnie, you want to just run with it? Sure. I mean, I don't have much to add here. We can just go listen to our episodes. We talk about this extensively, but Rebecca basically says in response to being asked about Grandma Niara and what she thinks of her, like what she can share about what Grandma Niara shared with Mira and all of that, she says, I love her.

27:20 And so, but I think that's important, right? Because that means that Grandma Niara is not like a Papa Atos situation. Like it. It doesn't mean that she's a villain. I think she also said you learn a lot more about Asher's side of the family in Book 4, which I'm so fucking excited about. And she says the biggest thing to ask yourself is what other secrets is Niara keeping? She doesn't talk to the family about decisions that that family made.

27:47 So again, she's confirming. I feel like this wasn't like really, really explicitly stated in the books and you kind of had to get there. But she very much confirmed, like Niara's not talking to the family, that that was her choice about decisions that they made. And she is keeping quote bigger batter secrets about how those decisions went down.

28:05 Which to me says something something happened that made Asher go go try and dedicate Violet. Oh, so you don't think that they that you don't think Niara stopped talking to Asher and Lewis because they dedicated Violet? You think something happened and then Asher went to dedicate Violet. Well, I think the the dedication also or the dedication attempt, we'll call an attempt. I know she's not fully dedicated, but I think the dedication attempt was what made her stop speaking to them. But I think she knows a lot about what drove that to happen. And I think, I think whatever happened caused conflict. Yeah, I I agree.

28:46 And I also think she's going to give us a lot more insight into Asher's role in this rebellion, because it's pretty clear there was one at this point. And we're gonna learn about all that in book form, which I'm stoked about because it's giving me something to live for. Because apparently Satan's gonna be a fucking mess. All right.

29:02 Next question, Possibly the question I'm most excited about, but also possibly the question I'm least excited about. Yeah, I'm kind of bummed. Because I couldn't hear her. I couldn't hear if she said he was dead or not, but I don't. Know I think he's dead. I think he's dead. All right, That's fine. All right.

29:18 So the question was, how did Zaden's grandfather die in the quadrant? The answer we got was a classic Rebecca. No, we haven't. I don't know if we had or have because again, I couldn't fully hear the answer to this question. We had a theory that Berwyn was Grandpa Reorson. It seems like Grandpa Reorson is probably dead though, so that theory probably doesn't hold. Also, I realized it wouldn't work because that means Segal would still be bonded to Berwyn.

29:43 And I definitely don't think that's the case. And even though I'm on the train that Taryn is secretly bonded to Naola, and I do not think that Berwyn is still bonded to Segal. So I don't think the theory works. However, he's clearly important, right? Like we're clearly guiding clues that he's important.

29:55 So the question was, how did Zadan's grandfather die on the quadrant? We got no. We got what year was he when he died in the quadrant? No. And even if you check out the Berwyn theory, we have talked about how this doesn't fucking work, right? So I think we're getting back into the question of paternity and lineage because he somehow didn't make it out of the quadrant, but he also somehow had two children, right? So, like, how does that all work? I don't know.

30:22 You have your thinking face on two children. Yeah, because Fenn had a sister. Yeah, but that sister is Fenn's assumed documented father's child. Right, right, right. Right. OK, so he had one child. He had a child. He had a child. But yes, he had a child, so it's still like what happened there. So I think we're getting set up for a what's the word? I'm looking for a lineage crisis basically with the throne of Tierra Endor, which you which you called out in our Zayden episode.

30:52 The important thing is this is a fucking mess. And and we have the line about someone, either Zayden or Fen, we don't know who, blackmailing his way into a title. Right? So I definitely think we're getting set up for a Violet is the Duchess of Tierra Endor. Probably. Maybe situation. Yeah, well, Violet is the Duchess of Tyrion Door.

31:13 What do you mean? Yeah, I know. But I think people are going to challenge it. I think. I think that people are going to find out that Fen's father was not actually Fen's father. Well yeah, that Fen was illegitimate and therefore Zayden was illegitimate as as air. Yep. Cool. But perhaps Bodie will be legitimate.

31:30 So that would be lovely if he could fucking stick around. Which I'm almost certain he didn't. We'll talk about that one. All right, this question I hate has Imogen Violet's memories more than just the instance at the end of Onyx Storm was the question. Rebecca had a hard time answering this one, and she said that depends on how you feel about Imogen as a character and what she does tell, What she tells Violet that she does or does not do when she's explaining her signet in Iron Flame. And she couldn't just say no.

32:04 So that's a problem for us. Image and fame. I really think she's just fucking with people on this one. I have seen the evidence that's been presented for this theory. I think there's like one or two examples of where it maybe happened maybe. But like think about when Zayden was reading Violet's mind and how many times her fucking like scalp prickled. So I don't really know.

32:25 I went back and I looked at what Imogen said about her signet and iron flame. She said I can wipe short term memory if we're seen. I'm the last line of defense around here. I don't know what that means. I'm the last line of defense around here. I don't know what that mean. Yeah. I mean fact that Rebecca specifically said she said it depends on what you believe of Imogen's character.

32:48 What she has shown us, what she is told Violet about her signet, what she is told Violet about what she does and doesn't do, and she explains her signet and how she explains her signet and iron flame. I recognize that Rebecca was frazzled and so maybe this does not mean than anything, in which case once again, like many times during this podcast, I've spiraled over nothing. But she specifically said iron flame in that quote. And in that quote she said short term memory. So I'm clinging to Imogen not having wiped Violet's memory multiple times throughout the book with my fingernails at this point.

33:26 But 12 hours is not short term. So could she have done it multiple times during the 12 hours? Could she have had to? Like, I don't know that it would have worked. I mean, we've talked about this at length, so you should go listen to our ending of Onyx Storm. I think that's when we covered it episodes and we talked about the realisticness of Imogen being able to wipe 12 hours of memory.

33:47 So maybe she had to do it multiple times then only thing the only came out of nowhere. Very cute, thank you. The only thing that I could possibly be OK with when it comes to the theory I've thought about it a lot is in Iron Flame is when Violet and Zaden are having this whole crisis over like secret secrets. How much do I deserve to know?

34:14 I deserve to know everything Zaden says. You deserve to know anything that affects your agency. But like, I can't tell you everything. Like, if Violet and Zaden came to an arrangement where Zaden would tell her things and then she could decide, OK, I'm going to like, I understand that it's dangerous for me to know this.

34:33 I agree to forget this. And then, like, Zaden calls in Imogen. And then they'd agree basically to, like, wipe that piece. Yeah. Then I could be OK with this. And I could also see, I could see that, honestly, for Violet and Zaden. And we wouldn't know that because this entire thing is in Violet's POV. So we would never even know.

34:51 They would have arranged it so that Violet would never really know that she, like, came to that agreement. She would just agree to it. And then it would just be. That would be it. So if it's consensual, Yeah. But like, if it's not, we are dealing with, like, an unforgivable act from a very beloved character.

35:07 And I don't like to read my books that way. If you do, power to you. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Anymore on Imogen. Oh, my God. We're like not even halfway through the question. I don't think it's, I feel like we've gotten through a lot of the big ones. No, I'm good, all right. Do we I I don't care about the Griffin signets.

35:25 Do you want to talk about the Griffin signets at all? No, I think the only interesting thing there is the part that she said about all things being in balance with Griffins and Vennon too. I don't think we had fully appreciated that. At least I didn't so noted. For a few two days. So some vennon is going to be able to rile up Violet real bad. That's what I'm hearing.

35:48 OK, shimmering Onyx wraps around my mind. Shimmering Onyx wraps around my mind. All right, I think what Rebecca revealed here is so interesting because she was asked a question about the bond between Violet and Zaden. And she answered the question talking about the bond between Dragons, the mating bond between Dragons, right? So the question was, was the throne room scene Zaden or Violet signet or their bond?

36:12 And Rebecca said their bond. We're going to learn a lot more about bonds. Remember what she said was there's another, another pair of Dragons. This is not a pair of Dragons, she said. There's another pair of Dragons out there that can communicate over long distances. All right. Because you'll learn more about how partner bonds work.

36:28 There are other Dragons who have bonded. Other Dragons. Longer. Like not Dragons, Rebecca. What are you saying? The people so. Information. They're mates. They're mates. OK, they're mates the way that Dragons are mates. They're mates. Which means they eventually we, I forget the Dragons names, but it's all over our discord.

36:53 There are those two Dragons. I think one of them is glean maybe? Or glean. No, Glean is a different dragon. Glean is a different dragon. They can communicate over long distances because they've been partnered for decades. Obviously Zaden Violet have not been partnered for decades. We don't know what that means but I mean they can already talk to each other mind to mind the way that Taryn and Segal can. But Tannen Seagal can't be separated for too long, right? Or they start to like, we don't really know what happens. We've been told they can't be separated for too long or it's really bad for them.

37:21 Is that going to happen with Zayden and Violet too? I don't know. This is an off the cuff episode guys. Off the cuff, and we also don't know the state of Tannen's the Karen bond. We do not, but this is this is what I was saying. I don't remember I actually said this but I had this thought. It doesn't matter if the bond between Taryn and Segal is broken if Zaden and Violet have a bond that has not been broken, right? Like if that is a true mating bond, then it doesn't matter if Tangency Gale's bond was broken because everything that applies to that meeting bond will apply to this meeting bond too. Yeah.

37:51 And what I don't know is whether we're maybe taking a quantum leap here and saying something to do with their bond and then her jumping to a Dragon's bond. We're saying, OK, they have a bond just like a Dragon's bond, when maybe she's just talking about this is related to their Dragon's bond and the fact that the lines are linked. I don't know.

38:11 She was asked a question about humans and she answered with something about Dragons. I'm going to read into that, but that's just my brain. All right. Next. Anything. That one. No. OK, we're getting dream sex. We're getting dream sex. We told you that. On to the next. One on to the next. Unbonded Dragons.

38:29 Holy shit guys. Biggest. Fucking reveal of this episode, holy shit. Concern of this interview, all right. So the question was, what do basically, what do unbounded Dragons get up to? Like do they participate in battles? Do they just chill in the veil? Do they like what's going on here? So her answer was they only chill in the Veil or Orisha they choose basically. So we've got confirmation there's two Empyreans, the Veil and She.

38:54 Says because remember, we have two empyreans now. Do you know how she confirmed that? With one fucking word. One fucking word in Onyx Storm, she said. I want to see how this Imperium functions. That is the only indication that we have two Imperiums. What we do now, we know. We have two imperiums, so they only chill and the bail or Risha they choose. Are we going to bond?

39:15 Are we going to fight in this battle? Are we not? They play. She says the unbonded play a major role and are just like, like, we're not going to fight in this. And then she almost gives something away. So apparently something about this is important enough that she almost gives something away. So what did we learn here?

39:30 1 I think we learned something pretty interesting in that the Dragons are only hanging out in the Veil or Arisha. I think that's important because I kind of didn't really know where else the Dragons could be, to be honest with you. I kind of thought that the world was infinite. 2 The unbonded aren't seemingly based on what she just said aren't fighting I think. Is that what she said?

39:51 I, I heard her say they choose what they do. Are they going to bond? Are they going to fight in this battle? Etcetera. This is an empyrean, the fantasy fangirls asked her. Does that mean? Taran is an elder. She didn't confirm or deny. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Taran is an elder. There's guys there is no fucking way that Taran killed the other elders.

40:10 Like I. I just do not think there is any way that is possible if he is truly an elder in this imperian and that. And I'm 95% on that at this point. We have confirmation there's another imperian. Taran is literally called a general. I am pretty sure that he is probably the leader of this imperian, if not at least an elder. Which means to me, Navarre absolutely killed these elders. Wasn't Terran.

40:33 Zadan is basically being set up. Zadan and Segal and Terran are being set up for stealing these eggs, killing the elders, at the very least killing the elders. I think that is what is happening here. Because we have confirmation now that there's two imperians. Second part of this, Terran is called the general, right? Like multiple times.

40:49 Terran is called the general. We now have an army of black Dragons, right? We now have an army of black Dragons in the caves and Arisha, We're not there yet. We're not there yet. OK, fine. We will cut that part, we'll put it in later, but we do not think that there's any way that Taryn forced together or Zayden killed those elders. Yeah, I don't think they killed the elders. I do think I'm curious what, and maybe it was just the quality of the video.

41:19 I'm curious what she was implying that the unbonded were actually doing because she said they play a major role in her. Just like, like doesn't to me say that they're like in there getting involved and picking a side. Well, I think what she said was they will play a major role in book four. Yeah.

41:37 I don't know how to peace out this theory. Maybe they will pick a side and the unbonded I think. I don't remember well enough, but I thought a lot of them came to Orisha a lot. Of them came to Orisha, she also confirmed. Did she confirm in this question? I don't remember if it was this question, but she confirmed that there were Dragons already there. So remember when we freaked out about other Dragons and there being a secret den in Orisha?

41:58 Yes, there was a secret den in Orisha the whole fucking time guys. They may not be irrids. They might not be irrids. It was later, yeah. Well, I spoiled it, sorry. It's fine, all right? I mean, the next one is the same, is the same. Shit is Taryn's battle time all from its time with Nail and she's basically like not necessarily but like that's not really the question you should be asking.

42:16 Like he's this legendary battle dragon, but is he legendary? Are there more legendaries? She thinks the better question is why are there so few black Dragons? And then when asked is it significant that 2 black Dragons just hatched, She said very. This is your theory. You talk about it. It's your theory.

42:34 It's so good. So we had a theory. It's been a long time. Arisha is the ancestral hatching grounds for the black Dragons. Obviously when the rebellion was squashed, a bunch of tears died. A bunch of tears also died like during the rebellion were killed, were turned, etcetera. And so like it is possible that the black Dragons died out in mass because they are battle Dragons and they are fighters and they could have, they could have had their riders turned, they could have died, they could have had their riders die and just stayed. I think what's happening here is the black Dragons whose riders died as a result of the Tirish rebellion, the black Dragons whose riders turned potentially,

43:17 a lot of them probably did die, but I think a lot of them just never left Orisha. And so have you already got to this question? But there's a later question, which is basically, are the Dragons in Orisha all from as guys? She says no, some never left. Some hidden. Those caves, they never left. We know those are the ones that saved Brennan.

43:31 So I think, I think there are a lot of black Dragons. I just think they're still in Orisha. Yeah. I totally agree. And who is now? Who is now in charge of Orisha? Well, Taryn's in charge of all the Dragons that are, and Violet's in charge of all the people, so I'm going to say that Rider Dragon duo, they're running the show now.

43:50 Yes, I agree. I think All right. I don't think we're dead talking about this theory, but we'll go to the next question. Yeah. Do we want to talk about two new black Dragons hatching? Yes, I think this is more just more evidence that there are actually so many, there are not so few black Dragons. But these were the ones that hatched at the veil.

44:09 I remember before they got to Arisha, I think Taran told them it was time to hatch. Like someone pointed out in either an Instagram comment, I don't remember. But like those Dragons only hatch after Violet wields lightning. I think basically Taran was like, all right, we're fucking bonded. Let's go. It's time, time for you guys to hatch. That's my thinking that like this was not a coincidence. And because we've talked about this, we guys, I think you probably remember this.

44:32 We spiraled in our first season so much about dragon scales and their colors and what it means and how it doesn't make any sense. That and elders are the only ones who can sense a Dragon's color. But dragon scales are also hereditary. If these eggs have been just chilling out for a while because we're told we only have two male black Dragons, at least in the Veil, at least in Orisha, that means that they decided when to hatch, basically, right? So was tearing the one being like, hey, guys, it's fucking time to hatch.

44:57 I don't know. Yeah. Maybe, maybe I think there's another there's like a dark side of this, like whole why are there so few black Dragons? Question that Rebecca making us ask ourselves I love that she was basically like stop asking questions about Terran like you're marking up the wrong tree boring fit start these are the.

45:14 Questions you should ask me start. Asking questions about where all the black Dragons are, the tears rebellion. This tear indoor in particular probably had a lot of a lot of people turn and there was another question. Sorry for fucking up the order of all the questions about the Wyvern fire colors emulating dragon colors. And she was pretty cryptic on this, but she was basically asked like, do the wire and fire colors match up to the dragon fire the dragon colors intentionally, she said one would assume.

45:42 And then she was asked, is it significant that we've not seen black or brown yet? And she says yes. And so very dark version of this is, did so many black dragon riders turn that now then and just have black Dragons already on reserve. That's why there's no black fire Wyvern. They don't need them.

46:04 They already have black Dragons. That would suck. I don't want to be true. I also don't know. I think it's likely. I don't think it's likely, but that could be another reason that Terran's like, all right, guys, wake up. Like we got to go. Time to hatch. We got to go. Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about this more because she talks, she circles this theory like 5 times.

46:23 Guys, this is a very important one. She's really like. She's really like. Hey. Hello, pay attention. Pay attention to the black Dragons. Which is honestly so fair of her because we weren't asking that question enough. Like 2 black Dragons hatching and we've got 2 male black Dragons in our whole universe.

46:41 I understand, I understand, but we also have a black dragon made it to a blue dragon. So you know what? Punnett squares are a thing. Look, I don't, I look, someone should go back and count how many minutes we spent talking about this exact topic, OK? Because like we thought we were crazy at the time. We were like, surely this will not be important. All right, the next question she asked, I think was does Bodie, she was asked does Bodie have a thing from for Violet? And she said Bodhi has a thing for what Zadan has, but he doesn't want to.

47:13 This was a. Strange answer. Did you? Well, I thought it was a strange answer because Zadan does not actually have that much and the things that he does have are basically a province which Bodhi doesn't fucking want. Bodhi says I don't want your fucking province word from. Violet And that's kind of it.

47:31 Yeah, I agree. It was a strange answer. Right, because we are explicitly told by Bodhi that he does not want his fucking province. I have seen a lot of confirmation online that this means Bodie's the brother. I don't really know how people are like drawing that conclusion. I 100% think Bodie's the brother, but I'm not really sure why this line is the line that makes people certain of that. But maybe I'm just missing something. I do think that this answer has like little brother always a step behind vibes to it in that it would make sense that he's always kind of in in Zaden shadow like wanting to be Zaden like wanting the confidence of Zaden wanting to follow his path.

48:14 I also think that it's pretty clear in Onyx Storm that he's like really want Satan to like hold his shit together and does not like the path that he's currently on. So I don't know, I thought the Bodie in Onyx Storm was more of a if you die I die type of vibe, then I want what you have. But I'm not the author so. All right.

48:34 Anyway, I think this, I still think it's Bodie. My. This changes nothing in my opinion about any of our theories. Yeah, that's how I feel about this answer. Yep, Fen shop Brennan with an arrow confirm. Anything you want to talk about there? I don't think that changes anything with our nail and theories at all. No, I don't think so.

48:53 I just. I'm warm. I am still confused about the events that led to Brennan's death. This does not change that for me. Yeah, yeah, I agree. That's it. We already talked about the Wyvern fire emulating dragon colors. Did you have anything else on that? No, I thought the next dance. I thought the next the next interaction was fucking hilarious though.

49:13 Just outfits. The question was, we see Venom in several different colored robes. Is there a meaning to the colors that the Venom wear, like the purple robes and the red robes? And Rebecca just goes, they just like them. It's just what they like to wear fashion. Zane is probably going to wear black. Yeah, I only Oh my God, I love that one. When So I was like, what color do you think Zeta was going to wear?

49:38 And someone yelled blue and she was like black. Obviously it's going to wear bright or flat. Yeah, I didn't have many thoughts on that one either. OK, the next question, how do higher level Vennon get signets? She won't tell us, but we're going to learn a lot more about how the Vennon function in the next book.

49:53 I don't know. I think we talked, I think we talked about this a bit like Zennon could just have signets because they're all fucking writers who've turned. But if Vennon are manifesting their own cygnets, then that does mean that what we've been taught about cygnets is a lie, right? Because the signet is supposed to be like a unique manifestation of your bond with your dragon. And if you don't have have a dragon then how do you have a signet?

50:15 Why isn't it just magic? So TBD on that 1 I think. I think if it were just Rider, she would have not answered that way. Yeah. So I think, I think we're getting set up for Cygnets is a lie, which we've already been set up for. Yeah, Yep, this one was a doozy. How do we look out for secret Venon? Nefarious deeds is not surprising. And she says cream robes, but that'll make you spiral. Well, yes, actually it will.

50:38 No, I think it just means the Markham's of an which is fine. We already knew that. Yeah, yeah, that would make sense. Markham being event it would make sense. Or just like Scribe Quadrant is infiltrated? Like we knew that. Yeah, which would also make sense, but that would be so interesting, right, That Asher was, it must have happened.

50:56 Asher must not have known or something, because Asher was pulling, was pushing Violet into the scribe quadrant and then was like, fuck no, she's not going in the scribe quadrant. So like, what did Asher know or not know if Markham is event? I think it's the question there. I don't know, because I kind of feel like it was the sharks everywhere situation for both Lilith and Asher. Like yeah, it seemed like they were more trying to optimize for her survival over like where are they're going to be Vennon? I don't know, because like, I mean, I guess we. Clearly, Atos is also a vennon.

51:28 Clearly Atos is a vennon. Like if Markham's vennon. Atos is a vennon. Yeah. And then anything that doesn't have Navarre's best interests, which I thought was interesting. Almost everyone, I would argue. Yeah, because Navar. I guess it depends on. What you define. Considered navar, we don't need to give. Best guy who's a Venom school?

51:51 Okay guys, it's Venom School for Venom. This is a school for venom. They're just venom in all over the place there. Why did leadership want to keep Jack alive? She said some interesting things here. She said to study him to find a cure. She said maybe if someone you love needs a cure. Lilith was the one who was studying Jack. I think there's really only there's one more likely option here and then there's one super crazy option here. The first one is what we've talked about at great length, that she thought Violet was going to become a Venom, so she wanted a cure because that's what the priestess on on Braille said could happen, that she might turn. Second crazy option is that Asher is alive and he's a Venom. I don't we've talked about this.

52:34 I don't think there's much evidence for that one, but could you? What a wild twist it would be if we find out that Niara refused to talk to them because Asher turned and then tried to go dedicate Violet to find a cure for himself. That would be. That would be a twist. That would be wild. That would be wild. All right, next thing we find out. I do think we got this one wrong. Varish was not a venom.

52:55 He was just a bully. Varish was just a bully and so I was a red herring. Yeah, she said she specifically put it in there was a red herring, which I think is in bad faith, Rebecca, but you do you. I I will still read all your books. But she did confirm a red herring in my opinion that you're right, which is Lilith, she said just to threw you off. Red herring, like when someone's eyes are just red. Some people are just tired, which I think we've almost said word for word.

53:25 Like my eyes right now. So Varish wasn't a venom, Lilith was not a venom. I think we have. I do think we have confirmation from that next one. Do we know the pattern that Violet recognized an Onyx storm about the venom? She just gave us this one. And this is also another one that we have pretty much word for word said on this podcast. She is finding evidence that venom didn't kill people. They're loved in their previous lives, which means Zeta won't kill her.

53:50 So there's an epigraph about a woman not killing her family. We talked about it at length, probably again in our In our event, an episode I don't remember, but yeah, yeah, we we called that one. I don't know else to say that. Yeah. Absolutely crazy plot twist, the Venom continue to love people after they turn.

54:10 Or at least right. Or at least or or at least will not harm the people they love after they turn. Which is what she. And I mean, theophany tells us that van and don't feel love, but this would imply that that was also a lie. Yeah, she also says we don't feel love and we lie, so she's right. We definitely talked about this. Yeah, we lie.

54:33 Liars. Liars. Yeah, this. The pan check thing I thought was weird honestly. I thought so too. So quick recap because we are running kind of longer than I expected here. Panjak has been working with the Vennon since he didn't get what he wanted. Basically like since General Etos got Willis job, we're told that we're we're not told how his dragon felt about the whole thing. Yeah, basically said, I wouldn't presume. She says that's between him and his dragon, like that's his Dragon's business.

55:04 I wouldn't assume how his dragon felt about him working with the Vennon. Which is odd because like imagine if Violet decided to work with the Vennon and Taryn was like I'm not down with that, he would throw an absolute fit. Like could you? Imagine I would, I couldn't deal with him being in my head and Panjic is dead.

55:23 So I guess Panjic is dead. Yeah, Confirmed. Yep. Yeah, I thought that was an interesting one. Yeah, I don't have more to say about it, but interesting answer. I think the only thing that the additional thing, like one more layer that felt interesting here is that Panjic started working with the Vennon when he didn't get what he wanted, which was Lilith's job, and General Atos got that job.

55:44 So he started working with the Venom and we think the General Atos is a Venom. So I don't know whether those two things work together. Honestly, I don't know what to think about. Like why are you going to work with Venom when a venom gets the job you want? So I thought about this. Rebecca did not confirm that that is when it was, she said. Since he didn't get what he wanted. But we learn that he didn't.

56:07 We learn about him not getting what he wanted in Chapter 3 or 4th wing. In Chapter 3 or 4th wing, the Tara says, I've heard this position is just a stepping stone for him. He wants Soren Gail's job than General Melgren. So was it when he didn't get Soren Gail's job or was it like all the way back in Chapter 3 when we learned about him wanting Soren Gail's job?

56:30 Probably, probably the second one or I mean probably at the end of Onic Storm, but I don't know. I also don't think that then men are going to be upset about having more than one finger in the pot, so to speak. Oh, definitely not. I just. Yeah. Like what could pan check provide that Atos couldn't? I don't know.

56:46 I don't know. Doesn't matter. I like I'm not going to waste that many brain cells on pan check until he proves to be more until he I feel like he won't because he's not alive. So all the Dragons in Arisha from best guy from best guy. If like no, we already talked about this. I don't know we talked about it.

57:05 There are black Dragons. There are probably a lot of black Dragons. Why are there? Dragons in Arisha unbonded a lot of them. We we talked about this in our History Part 2 episode. It's important. Why are there so few black Dragons? They are hiding. Yeah. Yeah. All right. One to five. How important are the ancestral dragon hatching grounds?

57:24 Absolutely essential. So here's what I'm thinking. Here's what I'm thinking. Is it only you said that there's only two places that the Dragons are. I know that she kind of implied that too, but like, are there leftover Dragons at all the hatching grounds, like, or is it truly just Arisha? I don't know.

57:40 I mean, it would make more sense for Arisha because of the whole rebellion thing. So I think there is something that implies that it's just Arisha. She also said the ones, the one that we don't know is important. The only hatching ground that we don't know about is the Browns hatching ground. Yeah.

57:55 Which is somewhere in the north I think. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Well, it's somewhere cold. I think it's somewhere cold. Yeah, right. We're giving a hint that it's somewhere cold. Our brown dragon rider Garrick is missing. Right. So is that where he's gone off to with Zaden? Have they gone to the brown hashing grass?

58:12 I don't know, but she said it's essential. The only one we don't know is Brown and the only rider we have confirmed missing with Zaden Rise of Brown Dragon. Yeah, and I think there has to be some flexibility in what she said about the Dragons only being in the Veil and Orisha, because we also have a bit, we have the irids, so there's Dragons everywhere. Are they Dragons?

58:34 She's. Definitely not talking about them in that instance, but I am choosing to believe that she's not being super rigid and saying that they chill in the veil or in Orisha. Yeah, unless our secret here in Den and Orisha is right, which would be fucking wild. Well, there is a secret den in Orisha.

58:49 It's just black Dragons, right? We've confirmed most of it. Yeah. Cool. What would Loysim's trial be? No. Is there a reason we're not being told? She does say the trials. I mean, this, we already know this, but she says like the trials on the islands, on the Isles are not what you would expect for each of the aisles.

59:09 And I thought this was super fun, actually. It's telling and I want to think more about it. I haven't really digested it yet, but I think I heard it correctly. Was pretty hard to hear this part. But she said, I think that marriages that are blessed by the Temple of Loyal are or like, impetuous, like, yeah, like Vegas weddings.

59:27 Yeah, that's what. People there are not what they seem, which I find fascinating. Like I'm now picturing Loisome like an adult amusement park like. Cuz like the Vegas trip. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. Well, wouldn't that be? I mean, cuz that is kind of like love of like hedonistic. It's very hedonistic lifestyle, right?

59:50 Like yeah, interesting. We had questions if you remember about what it meant that they got married at Dunes Temple instead of Loyal's temple. So I think this is, this is a good thing for Violet and Zeta that they got married at Dunes Temple instead of Loyal's and what that means for them if it if it seemed seen as impetuous to get married at Loyal's temple. So.

1:00:09 It seems like it's borderline normal, like maybe it's most common for people on the continent to get married in Amari's temple. I don't know. Getting married in Loyol's temple is like getting married in Vegas. I would hope that it's not the go to. I would hope so too, but there is that line about, Oh my God, she says something.

1:00:25 Riddick says something like, oh, I'm sure that like so and so would take you to Loyol's temple to get married tomorrow. Like he's so happy that you guys are are dating. Remember that it's about some professor. Yeah, but that they're saying that still works. They'd be like, we would take you to Vegas tomorrow to just like get it done. Yeah, that's true.

1:00:43 Get hitched. Yeah. All right, Crow Bush uprising. Second crow when uprising didn't want to be a part of peromial. No deeper meaning. Cool. Great. I. Didn't even write that one down. Not telling us anything about people present for the wedding we do, but I it was private for a reason. And that Dane is not the only memory reader, which I don't think we knew. I certainly didn't clock that.

1:01:05 Who's the other memory reader? I also am like, OK, is that confirmation that Dane is with Zeta? If we're not even bringing Dane into this equation of people that could potentially be reading Violet's memory, does that mean we are confirming that Dane is not there to read Violet's memory? Or is it just that Dane's their friend and he wouldn't do it? Regardless of whether it's Dane's not there or Dane is just on their side now, I think it is. It's interesting, like, are we going to have to watch out for a new person?

1:01:33 Are we? Going. To a new form of interrogation because previously Dane has been the like final line of interrogation like Bearish brings in Dane. We have a lot of second signets we don't know. We have some first signets we don't know. We have a. We have a good amount of first signets we don't know.

1:01:50 Yeah. Yep. OK. Terran is tired for a reason other than battle. Absolutely. That's tough. But we knew. It says to have faith. I'm trying. I have faith. I have faith more than me. All of us. I actually will get to it. I think she confirms that this has a happily ever after in this interview, but we'll talk about it.

1:02:11 It's not when she screams. Have a little faith. No, it's not when she screams have a little. Well, she does. She says that he's gone for a bit. Which is promising. Yeah, we'll get there. All of Onyx Storm is a proposal. We knew this. He he had a ring made like the proposal was planned. Of course, Violet is Duchess of Tier and Dor Confirmed now that they're married.

1:02:30 Confirmed. Everyone who thinks that she married Bodie, she married Zayden and she's the Duchess of Tier and Dor and she was confused. She was like, was there a debate? Everyone had to be like, yes, there was a debate. He was like, no, she's Duchess, it's fine, everything's fine. We will know what happened in the 12 hours by the end of Book 4, but we won't necessarily see it.

1:02:54 Which is going to piss you off to know it off. Just another guy's wedding in these books that I'm missing. Ronnie hates an off screen wedding. Hate an off? Screen wedding Why are they all off screen? Rebecca says she finds Onyx Storm hopeful. Which is hilarious because I I think I was actually the most mentally ill I've been in years after the end of the. That was a great answer.

1:03:18 I thought that was a great answer, she says. For the first time, they let people in. They take in refugees. They extend their words like. Yes, it was. I agree. Bad for Violet, but good for the country. It was good, it was good and Zaden the Martyr did have a good like the things that he did led to good things and I'm happy for him that they led to good things.

1:03:40 She said, I'm sorry, Mr. Mann has gone for a little bit, but I found it very of it was so funny. But it's true. They they did successfully extend wards to other countries. They are giving up their Shields for other people. There's been a lot of progress made. And at the end of Onyx Storm they are celebrating even though Violet's life is falling apart.

1:03:58 So that's all good. What percentage will we have seen of Violet Cigna by the end of Book 4? She says no. I thought this was really interesting. Actually she has not. I shouldn't be surprised this, but she's not planned. She doesn't know what's going to happen in book four and book 5. She knows how they start and end, but she does not know what happens in the middle. Yeah, what happens where?

1:04:16 I don't know what that means. I'm not a writer. I really hope it doesn't mean they happen in parallel. That would be fucking devastating. I would hate that. They can't. They can't be that. They can't because she said that. Zaden was going to be in his villain era in Book 4, which would imply that he and then wait until book 5 if you can't handle that.

1:04:35 So that's why I think we're getting happily ever after because she says wait. She says if you can't handle it, put aside Book 4 and wait. So that's why I think this story has a happy ending. Yeah, I think it'll still be at a tragic cost, but I agree. Yeah, it's not going to be all sunshine and daisies. I love this question.

1:04:52 What moment was she most excited to write? She said she's excited to write the moment that Violet realizes why Zaden married her. Wouldn't you be excited if you found out that your husband married you to give you a black dragon army? I sure fucking would. You sure fucking would. You sure? Would and so would I. So that's it guys.

1:05:12 It's a black dragon army. That's the answer. OK, Also Talladium. But we've talked about Talladium so much, we don't need to talk out of here. It's got to be something slightly different, right? Because people are shouting Terendor and like, because he loves her and she's like there's. A black dragon army. It's a black fucking dragon army. That is what he gave her.

1:05:31 Black Dragon army Secret Black Dragon army. Still raises so many questions, like I really do think that's what it is, but why does being Duchess of Terendor give her that army versus just being Terence writer, right? Why is it her army at all? Why isn't it Terence army? Like what? What about that seat of power which we've talked about? There's Dragons on the throne, right? So it does imply that these rulers had a connection to Dragons that maybe others didn't. But like, what is that history there where her being Duchess of Tyrrendor?

1:05:58 And again, we don't know, but like this is I'm 95% sure on this, this is where we're going. What is it? What alliance did that ruler and those Dragons come up with that She is now kind of in a position of power to parlay with them. Because I do think a big part of this book is going to be convincing them to fight, right? Like she had to do it with the eras. It didn't work with the eras.

1:06:17 I think she's learned her lessons there. Maybe, I don't know. But like, I think a big part of this is going to be her having to convince the Black Dragons that it's worth fighting again even though they lost so much in the last war. Right. Yeah. And what does it mean? Yeah. I'm curious how this all fits together, if it's true. This is a theory, guys.

1:06:36 Like you know us, you know this. This is a theory. Zayden does not have a black dragon. Zayden doesn't have a black dragon, I know. That's weird. We'll see. But he is bonded to Terrence Mate and Taryn disappears all the time. Yeah, yes, yes. And Taryn's dragon saves Brennan's life, and then Brennan joins the rebellion. Yeah, so there's enough.

1:06:58 Right. Is Naolan leading this Black Dragon army at the moment? Like, no, I don't know. But like, maybe I don't know. Yeah, we're getting a Black Dragon army for sure. Titles 2 words she won't tell us anything else, multiple POV's and what? Dragon Army, No. Would you care? Just share with the class how you felt about the interview.

1:07:18 Very good. Very good titles 2 words Black dragon Dragon army. Dragon army secret den. Look, if we got that theory almost entirely right and the only thing we got wrong is that it's not Irids, I will be like, fucking ecstatic, truly. Yeah, multiple POV's in book four. We didn't really get much on this except for that she kind of had to fight to keep the PO VS in book 3. Yeah, which I think is interesting. So does that mean they're like, we talk obviously in the Imogen POV and in the Zayden POV there's a ton of crucial information, but we didn't really find much crucial information in the RE POV.

1:07:59 So like, did we miss something there? Or is the fact that she had to fight for it means her publisher was like, yeah, there's nothing important in this chapter? Take it the fuck out of the book. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I genuinely don't know whether I don't know. Like I think she things she enjoys writing those POV's and so maybe there is maybe there's nothing specific about them or maybe she simply had to write to sorry.

1:08:20 Maybe she simply had to fight to keep them in, like to keep that part of the story in somebody else's POV rather than just continuing in in violence in. Violence. Yeah, that could be. That could be. Yeah, because they were like, this is weird, why did you do this? And frankly, it did feel that way it. Was a little weird.

1:08:36 It was I. Enjoyed it at the end of the day while I was reading and I was like, why the fuck am I suddenly in Rhiannon's head and why does Firga sound like this? Yeah, she's excited to write Sloan's POV, which I'm also excited to read Sloan's POV, to be clear. Do we want to talk about the last point?

1:08:55 The last question of this interview was a question that I frankly have, I'm ashamed to say, never considered. Never once have I wondered how writers relieve themselves. My God, I didn't even fucking write that down. I was like, what are you talking? I was like, what question? I don't even remember.

1:09:10 What question are you talking about? The Zayn, the villainor? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like we talked about it. Yeah, we talked about it. Yeah, I don't care, guys. It's obvious how writers pee. I actually feel like she even writes this into the book. Like in book one they take when she finds out about the whole ven and conspiracy like they're taking a water break right?

1:09:28 Yeah, they water the Dragons just like horses, but they fly much faster for longer periods. Yep, Yep. All right, book four, we are getting Zadan villain era. Do we want to talk about what we think that means? Zadan villain era. Yeah. So it's interesting, right? Because I actually this is kind of important in my brain. She said that Zadan was going to be wearing black robes. In my head, Zadan turned Vennon and then was going to fuck off with his Rider friends and just like do his own shit and figure out how to take down the Vennon.

1:10:03 And now I'm like, is Zadan going to play with this? Vennon hierarchy? Didn't you have a theory about Zaden being a spy basically? I at one point we talked about this, yeah, we talked about the possibility of Zaden playing within the Vennon hierarchy versus going into something. He could do that. He could be an unwitting spy, right? Like he might not even know because Violet can just fucking walk into his head.

1:10:28 Yeah, right. So like he could be turning Vennon and he should be bad, but Violet realizes she still has this connection to him and can walk in his dreams. And who knows what they can do with the mating bond. And like, she's just, she's just got a fucking in I. Don't know how effective of a spy she's going to be if he's still he's Berwyn is this age and can like detect her in his dreams. But I think she'll probably learn because like until she steps out of him he doesn't know that she's there. So maybe she'll like hone her signet and be able to more effectively.

1:11:00 I think definitely, Yeah, I think yeah. And you, you pointed this out that once she's in their dream, she knows everything they know, right? She doesn't even need to, like, do anything. She's just in their head and she knows what they know. And. They're conscious. I'm so excited. I'm excited for I personally, you know this about me. I love how fucking dark these books get. I absolutely love it.

1:11:20 And I'm like pretty excited for Zaden and his villain era. I don't think he'll, I don't think he'll kill Riddick, but I think he might come. I think we might right walk right up to that line. Wait, might kill who? Riddick. Everyone thinks he's going to kill Riddick. Yeah, I think we, I think he will do bad shit. I also really like how dark these books get. What I don't like is waiting.

1:11:42 I kind of wish that I started these books when they were all out because I love dark books. Like I'm loving this really dark book that I'm reading right now. I don't like waiting for the light. I do not like having to sit with darkness feelings, waiting until like the next piece of information comes out. But if we hadn't had to wait, we wouldn't have started this podcast, so.

1:12:06 Yeah, and then I would be doing something else at 8:57 on a Wednesday. Well, I feel like we learned a lot. Honestly, I feel like this put a lot to rest for me. It also brought a lot to light. I think it was a great interview. I feel good about the theories that we put into the world before this interview. I feel good about this book.

1:12:24 Great job. Fantasy fangirls again, shout out to them. It was a great interview. It was very fun. Great job doing the Lords work. Yeah, I'm excited. I actually was like doing a little Imperium rereading today, obviously to like somewhat prep for this. And I was like, oh man, I fucking miss these books. Like, and I thought I was like, I was like, I need to walk away from them for a while.

1:12:42 But they are so fun. They are so good. They're fun. I needed time. I still need time. Yeah, no, I still need time. We're not ready to dive back in, but like I will be ready come January 2027. Sure will. Yep. Plenty of time. Plenty of time, Yeah. And I feel, what are we? What is the order of events? Is it next book, Graphic novel show? I don't.

1:13:05 I think so. Yeah. So like truly nothing till 2027. Yeah. All right. Well, whether you like it or not, that's what we thought of the interview and I've got nothing else to add. Follow us on social media. You probably already do if you're listening to this episode. This is a deep episode but we are Dragons in Details pod, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.

1:13:27 We are drags in the details server on discord and you can e-mail us your thoughts Drags in the details pod@gmail.com. I hope you guys enjoyed this interview. It was like completely off like not this interview, sorry. This episode it's completely off the cuff, not our usual thing. You clearly did not plan any further than I think 2 days ago, maybe yesterday, maybe 2 days ago, I was like, should we just like do a 20 minute reaction to this?

1:13:50 And you were like maybe and here we are today. You were like, yeah, Or someone in the Discord yesterday, it was like, do this and then revise her statement and was like, please do this and this is for you. And our 20 minute episode has once again turned into an hour and a half of our lives. Because that's just what happens. I feel like we'll get it down to like 110. I've got fun time.

1:14:16 Yeah. 110 All right, love you, bye. All right, love you. Bye.