ACOTAR: Azriel Deep Dive - His Shadows, His Winnowing & His Hellacious Origins

0:00 There's only one moment in this series where he's not carrying truth Teller kind of crazy, but Elaine, like, just appears behind. Elaine just appears. I have that in my nails. She just appears. How did Elaine get to them? How did she do it? Truth teller's cutting through the world is how. I think so. That's how.

0:36 Reason that I am so hot right now is because I've decided yesterday that I was going to make soup today because it was cold yesterday. It is not cold today, but then I had all of the ingredients for soup. To make the soup. I had committed to the soup. What kind of soup is it? It's just my family recipes, chicken noodle, but it's like a good, it's like there's tomato based family. Recipe Chicken noodle red pepper flakes. It's a little.

1:01 It's chicken noodle with A twist, and it has to be served with Detolini and monster cheese like there's no other acceptable noodle. Sounds fucking delicious. It's delicious, honestly it's really good but it takes like 3 hours to make as does all good soup. Well, I'm sorry. I'm happy that you made your family soup. That sounds lovely.

1:21 I'm sorry that it's too hot for it today. I know, yeah. And specifically this room, I think we've discussed this before. This room has this big window that lets in such nice light. However, it's there for an oven as well. Yeah. So yeah, I'm just excited for winter. I'm back in DC as everyone could see, so I now also have a huge window right here.

1:42 And not like 3-4 PM, it just gets like so. Fucking it's so hot. And it hits like at the end of the first episode that we recorded on Sundays, I feel like. And then we stop recording and we're like. Literally need to do a wardrobe change because I've sweated through my first outfit. Literally. Yeah, yeah.

2:02 But I do like I have my routine now. I like reapply deodorant. Oh, yeah, yeah, we got it down. We could do it in 90 seconds or less. Yeah. Shove food in our mouth, go to the bathroom, fly deodorant. It's. The whole thing. How are you? I'm having what I would call AI decided to coin this term this morning. Like it's kind of like a jello day. Where I just like feel like wobbly and like soft. I don't really know how to describe it. Like I went for a run this morning. This happens to me at least like once every couple months, I'd say.

2:31 And it's like, OK, my legs just don't quite work and I'm like really tired and all I want to do is just like stay in bed and curl up. And I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's part of being a woman. I don't know get. Your ferritin levels checked perhaps? It goes away. It goes away after like a day or two and I have gotten them checked and they're like you're not anemic, there's nothing wrong with you. Like, get out of here real.

2:53 Yeah. Yeah. So like, I don't know, I I'm a little sleepy. I'm a little sorry. And I told you we went to the Renaissance Fair yesterday. We. Went to a Renaissance fair that's very fun it. Was it was weird? It was. Yeah, I kind of feel like the time, the number of times you've texted me that you're at some like medieval festival, Renaissance Fair event has been more than one in the last 12 months. Why is that?

3:20 I feel like it maybe it's someone I worked with that was telling me they were going to go to Medieval Times. OK well this is the thing, I am now itching to go to medieval times because I think medieval times a much. Better experience, Personal times, specifically the dining experience. Call me crazy, I actually really enjoy good. It's so good.

3:40 I really enjoy. It I think dinner in a show, especially a horse based indoor show, Lost art, lost art. We should be doing it more. Restaurants take note. Get horses in the kitchen. Well, not to the point of a health code violation, please. Actually, this is a great point. I don't know how Medieval Times gets around that because you definitely I'm sure it's fine. Maybe arena based events are different. Well, I think also perhaps it's you're eating very far from where the kitchen is very far, very far. So yeah, the kitchen, like the preparation of the food perhaps is not as much in question as the dining facility. Or maybe they prepare it off site and bring it in, I don't know.

4:19 If you are a logistics manager of a medieval times, let us know. Chime in. I feel like so much has happened actually since we last recorded. Like an entire Taylor Swift album was released since we last. Recorded. I can't. Was it two or three weeks ago that we last recorded? I think it was only two.

4:38 It was 32 weekends. Off. And we took two weekends off, right? That's right, because we had weddings and stuff. Yeah, and the album came out the 3rd and we haven't recorded since that album. Yeah. Yeah, wild. The life of a showgirl came out life of a. Showgirl came out. We're not here to comment on that album, but I do think I could easily, easily map every single song in that album to characters in the mass verse. I'm going to put that on record and I'm willing to do it, to be clear.

5:05 If you would like Ronnie to do that on TikTok, let us. Know, let us know. I think a lot of people have already done it on TikTok, to be clear, independent of those I listened to, the album was like, is she reading Sarah J Maas is. She reading the books I'm reading. Yeah, we're consuming the same content.

5:20 I will say that my friend who is not you did text me. I was like, have you listened to the 4th Ring song on the new Taylor Swift album? And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Your friend who's not me. It sounds like a text that you would send me, so I just need to clarify it wasn't from you, because you know that I don't.

5:38 I'm not a huge Swifty. Yeah. And then I listened to it and I was like, yeah, I mean, this is pretty clearly a fourth ring. So yeah, hard to argue. She's up to something. She's up to something. Aren't they all? I was going to tell you. So Derek and I drove back from New England. We're back in DC, obviously. So it was like a long car ride.

6:00 And by the end of the car ride, we were going like pretty goopy. And he was like, I know. Why don't we listen to both T Pain and Akon, their top five songs each and compare and see which artist we still like better to stay? Which one do you think won? Akon. Oh my God, was T pain by a mile. Really.

6:18 Oh my God, Bartender is such a good song and it has been stuck in my head for like 3 days. They're bangers. Yeah, they're bangers. But yeah, T pain just. I mean, Akon is like smack that I'm like this song kind of. I know I feel like Akon was more like vibey club club music and outside of that setting it doesn't really make any sense but I feel like you or maybe one of our other friends was like a die hard Akon fan. Maybe I misremembered.

6:49 You're thinking of a man in particular who was not being. Yeah, yeah, we can make some good jokes about that one, but we won't. But we won't. All right. Hi, everyone. I'm Ronnie. I'm. Abby. And this is Dragons in the details, where we pick apart your favorite fancy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes.

7:12 We are focused on A Court of Thorns and Roses, the series also known as Acatar by Sarah J Mass Disclaimer You will be spoiled for the entire acatar series if you continue listening to this, not just the first book. We cover all of them, all 5 published books so far in that series. We will announce any other mass for spoilers ahead of time and we keep them to the end.

7:35 So for the first usually half of this podcast episode will be focused on A Court of Thorns and Roses, the series only, and then we'll expand into the broader mass verse, which includes Crescent City and Throne of Glass in the second-half. Another disclaimer, this podcast is rated R Don't listen to it with your children. I would not suggest allowing them to listen to this podcast. We curse and talk about other things that are not appropriate for children.

7:57 Each week we dive into a specific topic in depth, and this week we're digging into our lovesick shadow singer as real. I'm excited for this one, but I also, I'm not going to lie, my prep for this one. I still, I still haven't narrowed down on a place to be honest with you. I agree with you. I think this is going to be a fucking bear of an episode. So strap in guys, because and the notes are long. Is it going to be a bear or is it going to be AI? Just listened to this and still don't know what to think because that's how I came out of my prep. But we'll see.

8:29 At least we'll have thought provoking content. We will certainly have thought provoking content I have. What's that? What was that quote like? I have an idea of a plan like I've been. Concepts of a plan. Concepts of a plan. I also, I too, have concepts of a plan. Yeah. Yeah. And it really comes through. I mean, spoiler.

8:46 It's not really a spoiler, but like, you would never find this out anywhere other than here. Our next episode episode will be on more, and for me, the two of them together are interesting. We'll see. Fascinating. We shall see. We come with receipts. We have quotes to back up any theories so that you can follow along if you are skeptical, but you also don't have to.

9:03 You can just totally just be here for vibes. All right, Abby, do we have any announcements? Deep Dive music as always brought to you by Schwidley. That is SCHWOODLEY. So if you like our deep dive music, check them out on Spotify. Check them out. We have a website that is drives in thedetails.com. So if you I know we encourage you to e-mail us, we still encourage you to e-mail us, but there's also a message form on that website.

9:29 So if you want to e-mail us through the website that is also now an Ave. that is available to you, we get those emails as well. Other than that, we say this at the end of every episode, but we're trying to bring it up to the front of the episodes. You know, if you like us, rate, subscribe, comment, review, send us to your friends.

9:43 We're a small podcast, but we are trying to grow and I think that is it. I think that's it too. Cool. All right, first up, we always do corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. Abby, do you have any to share with the class? I do not for this. Section OK, I have an omission just because I do think I should have included it in our Elaine episode. And then just a fun social media shout out. So we talked in our Elaine episode about Elaine being potentially dissatisfied as Faye and potentially drawn to the concept of being made back into a human. And folks rightfully called out like Elaine is definitely making herself at home in the night court. She totally is.

10:25 She's got BFFS Newella and Sarah Edwin. They're making bread. They're living their lives. Elaine is very much known to kind of chameleon into whatever environment she needs to. Like she even found happiness in there, like hovel of a cottage. Yeah. And I had mentioned a specific reference to her pretty late in the series, still kind of lusting after being a human.

10:45 And I didn't bring the receipt for it. And so I'm bringing the receipt. And the receipt was Elaine asking Ameren about her body and how she got into her body. So the quote was? Elaine asked. And once you were in this body, you couldn't change? Amaran's eyes narrowed slightly. I straightened, glancing between them. Unusual, yes, for Elaine to be so vocal, but she'd been improving.

11:03 Most days she was lucid, perhaps quiet and prone to melancholy, but aware. Elaine, to my surprise, held Amaran's gaze. Amaran said after a moment. Are you asking out of curiosity for my past or for your own future? The question left me am fair right here, too stunned to even reprimand Ameren. The others to Elaine's brow furrow before I could leap in.

11:23 What do you mean there's no going back to being human, girl. Ameren said, perhaps a tad gently. Ameren. I warned and that Elaine's face red and further, her back straightening, but she didn't bolt. So this is in a court of frost and Starlight. It's not, you know, it's not a Court of Silver Flames, which is our most recent book, but it's late enough that Elaine has start.

11:41 Like it's pretty clear Elena started to make herself at home. She's starting to make out that as real, like she's pretty comfy, but she still has this like thought in the back of her mind. She totally could have written it off by the end of Silver Flames. I definitely acknowledge that. But I wanted to come with the receipt because I brought it up and I didn't have it.

11:57 So that's one, that's the omission. The social media shout out was on a quote about Elaine having seen Lucian's death, and I wanted to bring it up. It's from our friend Kara Guiza. To be clear, you're not in real life friend, but you've commented on a few of these so far. So we're calling you our friend.

12:15 This is not for listeners, an actual friend of ours in the real world. But Cara Guiza commented Elaine's first words to Lucy Lucian, were you betrayed us? He has been behind it all along. We talked about in our Lucian episode a few pretty clear points where Lucian could have helped in orchestrating all of this.

12:34 And I think it's still very much unclear whether it was one truly just fate or whether it was Tamlin or whether it was Lucian. But Elaine's first word solution being you betrayed us is really interesting. Is she just talking about what happened in Highburn when she went into the Cauldron? Or was she talking about their entire lives?

12:52 Because she uses the words you betrayed us, not me, you betrayed us. So I thought that was a good comment. Could refer to her and Nesta. Right could refer to her. Nesta could just be about hybrid totally. Interesting that she said betrayed, right? Because that would imply some kind of alliance before, right? And as far as I remember, Lucian has not met Nesta or Elaine until that moment, right?

13:15 Right. So I do think that's a very interesting choice of words because it's not. It's more like you like she's not saying you did this to us. She is, but she's putting more on it with the word trait, right? I've never really thought about that before, but I think that's kind of cool. Like she either knew, yeah, she could have known that Farrah and Lucian were friends, in which case that would be a betrayal, right? But not a betrayal to Elaine.

13:41 It would be a betrayal to Farrah. Yeah. Unless there's, yeah, some other pre-existing history that Elaine somehow is aware of. As is here, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, interesting. The seer who can see the past, seemingly. And the present, but maybe not the. Future. Not the future. Jury's out, all right. Speaking of my God out of jury, dude. Oh nice.

14:02 Yes, you did get out of jury duty. Yeah, I got that. I woke up to that text yesterday morning so. Nice. I know, listeners, you were. What? Wait, so you you got out of it? As in, you didn't even have to go and not get selected, You just don't even have to go. Didn't even have to go. They texted me and they said you don't have to report for jury duty and your duty is fulfilled.

14:20 Which happens like all the time in DC apparently. I know our listeners were waiting with bated breath to hear how jury duty would go. Now you don't, I mean. I guess a lot like, what does that even mean? Does it mean that the case was like dismissed or settled? No, I think they just pull in like way more people than they could possibly like screen like when they send these things out.

14:40 Yeah, I don't know. This is a tangent. OK, All right. I don't. Well, I have one little thing that I didn't really prep, but we can talk about it and if we don't like it, we can cut it if that works for you or we cannot talk about it. OK. So we have both talked about your theory that Lucian is Jasmine does grandfather, which I still like to be clear. Gwen's grandfather.

15:02 Sorry. We have talked about your theory that Lucian is Gwen's grandfather. We have a couple pieces of evidence for this. We know that there was an Autumn Court male involved, The word seduced is used multiple times and then we see Gwyn glow, which we think is evidence of Helion's blood, right? So there seems to be like some bread crumbs here, some trails of evidence. However we had someone comment.

15:28 I don't have their name. I'm sorry about the grandfather aspect of it, because when, when she was describing, her grandmother said she was unwanted by both spring and Autumn, right? Because she was a river in infant spring, but she had seduced a high female from autumn. But we know that Jasminda was like a farmer in Autumn. So I don't know that it works for the grandfather, but I really think it does work for the father. And I know other people have put that out there too, because her father was just an Autumn Court High female, if I'm remembering correctly, who participated in the Great right. Participated in the Great Right.

16:07 Yeah. At Sangrava, which you pointed out. He's definitely been to Sangrava, right? Because he knows the carpets from Sangrava. So I think this theory still like 95% works. I just think the father theory is more likely than the grandfather at this point. Yeah, yeah, I agree. That would make sense.

16:22 OK, All right, we have a fun question to start off our episode. Abby, what do you think Azrael would suggest as a first date? I have two answers. OK, I'm probably going to say 1. I think, though I said Azrael would suggest doing all my favorite things because his shadows would already know what they are and would have told him. So I think Azrael does his homework and would come prepared.

16:43 OK yeah. What's your answer? Cute. Yeah, that works because he just hangs out with Elaine in the garden. Oh my God, he does. I said that he would fly you to a gorgeous rooftop and then you would just sit in silence for a few hours. Yeah, you could talk. Talking is optional in my opinion. Talking is optional. With that's real.

17:06 I like those. I'd go on either one to be clear. I'd go on either one, yeah. All right, shall we deep dive? Yes. We shall deep dive. That wasn't a very giggling one this week, but that's OK. No. All right, Abby, what is a shadow singer? All right, I got. To get my head in the game here, I'm so tired. All right, so my lovely people, we have a couple of quotes about what shadow singing is, but not really concrete answers. It seems like even the fae don't really know what shadow singing is in this world, so we know they're rare. The quote we have for that is like the day Mahdi re said to me.

17:45 Shadow singers are rare, coveted by courts and territories across the world for their stealth and predisposition to hear and feel things others can't. So there are other shadow singers in this world. We haven't met them, but it seems like AS is not the only shadow singer, right? It's kind of unclear if he was born with these shadows or if they kind of came to him at some point in his life.

18:05 I thought you were raising your hand for a second. I was like, yes. Do we have a question already? No, All right. So the quote for that is, in the centuries I'd known him, he'd said little about his life those years and his father's keep locked in darkness. Perhaps the shadow singer gift had come to him then.

18:20 Perhaps he taught himself the language of shadow and wind and stone. So I think that's really interesting, that part, and we'll talk about this more later, but the language of shadow and wind and stone, keep in mind that there's a lot of other things that we hear about talking to wind and stone as well.

18:33 So that's just kind of an aside for now. His half brothers hadn't been forthcoming either. I knew because I'd met them, asked them, and had shattered their legs when they spat on Azrael and stuff. So that's Mist and Fury chapter 28. Even Reese does not seem to know where this power came from. So the quote for that is, though the Cobalt siphons were proof that his Illyrian heritage ran true.

18:53 Even the rich lore of that warrior people, my warrior people, did not have an explanation for where the Shadow Singer's gift came from. So Reese doesn't know. The Illyrians don't know. It's just kind of like a mystery. But what we do know is that his shadows are different than Reese's shadows. So I remember you and I have talked about this previously because I for one find it very confusing.

19:13 Like she uses the word shadows a lot. A lot of people seem to be able to talk to shadows, but for whatever reason, like Azrael is a shadow singer. But we do have this quote here. A corner of Azrael's mouth curled up, the shadows about him sliding over his neck like living tattoos. Twins to the Illyrian ones marked beneath his leath. Shadows different from anything my power summoned, spoke to. Born in a lightness air prison meant to break him. Instead he learned its language.

19:38 So that's drafts and Starlight Chapter 7. So both of those last quotes are from Reese's point of view. So that to me kind of implies that at least Reese thinks this power came to him. He wasn't necessarily born with it. But again, I would still say it's probably, probably up in the air. We don't really know. So that's like background.

19:55 And then what his shadows can actually do what this power actually seems to be. So they kind of seem to be like extensions of him, right? They're tethered to him. So the quote we have for that, we have a couple. Azrael's brows flicked up with the approval as the shadows seem to wrap tighter around him, as if he were the dark hive from which they flew and returned. So like, they're like little like bees basically flying out and coming back.

20:18 And then interestingly, I'll read this quote. Sometimes it seems like he can leave. Them behind so sometimes he has them, but Farah literally says he leaves them behind. So when they go to the human lands, Farah remarks no shadows trailed us as if he'd left them in Volaris. So it's like seems like sometimes you can just say hey guys like leave me alone for a little while come back later. Yeah.

20:36 Did you have something I also had That is all I was saying yes. He left his shadows in Volaris. Whether that's unique to Volaris or not interesting. Don't know. Yeah, interesting. All right, so now what the shadows actually can do. So they absolutely 100% give him information about the world, right? And kind of maybe even like actually talk to him. So the first time that Pharaoh meets Azrael, we have the quote. A wisp of shadow curled around Azrael's ear and his eyes snapped to mine.

21:04 I schooled my face into bland innocence. So that shadow is like going out and talking basically the shadow, it's implied that the shadow is saying something about Pharaoh, right? Because it curled into Azrael's ear and his eyes snapped to mine, right? So it's like whispering sweet nothings or something like into his ear and he looks at Farrah. In the bonus chapters, we have a couple of instances to this. So Azrael winnowed into shadows before she could say anything, appearing at the doors.

21:31 Teresa study. A heartbeat later, his shadows whispered in his ear that Elaine had gone upstairs. Right? So they're spying for him basically, right? Like, he didn't see a lingo upstairs, but a shadow saw a lingo upstairs, and they whispered that to him. And then I know there's a lot of conversation about this online, but sometimes they don't tell him things, right? So he aimed for the training pit, giving into the need to work off the temptation, the rage and frustration and writhing need.

21:55 He found it already occupied. His shadows had not warned him. That's when he's flying up to the House of Wind and he finds Gwen in the training pit. But it's interesting because he, like, expected his shadows to tell us, right? So he expected them to kind of go out and scout for him, but they didn't. Yeah, other things they can do, they can cloak him and others entirely in shadow, at least at night, right? So obviously the most prominent example we see of this is when they're going to rescue Elaine and the King of Hybrids war camp.

22:23 So the quotes we have for that. Azrael faded into blackness until he was my own shadow and nothing more, right? He's like literally disappearing. Like she does not see him anymore. I couldn't see Azrael, but I could feel him as if the siphon parading itself as IANS jewel was a tether. He dwelled in every pocket shadow, darting ahead and behind. So he's like, I don't really know what he's doing. I don't know if he's running really fast. I don't know if he's, like, turning into shadow. Like, I don't really know the physics of how this works. But he is invisible to the naked eye at this point. And again, it's night.

22:54 I don't. Maybe it only. I mean, I'm sure it only works at night. It only works when they're shadows. Yeah. But yeah, it seems like he's invisible, even calls him invisible, She said his rage ripped off, ripped, rippled off his invisible form. Same chapter, right? So like, he's invisible, but she can feel his rage rippling off of him.

23:12 Yeah, and then I think this is really interesting too. It's not just himself because he cloaks himself, Elaine and Farah in shadows to get out of the camp. So the quote we have for that one is his siphons blaze and the canvas of the back of the tent melted into nothing. We bolted through it before the guards nearby noticed.

23:29 They didn't react to us, only peered at the hole as Real had made us invisible. Shadow bound. So it's like he can extend this power to other people as well as long, I'm assuming, as long as they're near him. Yeah, basically. It also seems like these shadows have some like heft to them. They have some masks.

23:45 So there is a moment where a shadow grips favor his shoulder again in the highborn work amp. The quote for that is a shadow grip, my shadow grip my shoulder, reminding me not to run Azrael's shadow hand grasp my own, tugging me closer. This is the his rage rippled off his biblical form quote. So I don't know if that is Azrael's hand cloak in shadow or if that is literally like his shadow grabbing her.

24:09 Basically, yeah, other things his shadows can do. His shadows can search the world without him, but they come back. So we talked about him being like the hive, but it seems like they are able to fight to fly pretty free. So there's a quote, I don't have the chapter number, I'm sorry. I think this is about hunting for the cauldron, but I might be wrong. He says my shadows are hunting for it. As Real said to me, reading my face as I opened my eyes. His jaw clutched at the words.

24:33 He was supposed to have been searching for it himself. I don't know if he literally means his shadows or if he like calls his spies his shadows, but we've never met any of the people in Azrael spy network right? Like right? Do they exist or are they just shadows? Yeah, I mean, that's not, like in that vein. Like the only thing that you haven't touched on yet is like, these eyes and ears all over Prythian that get shut down sometimes.

24:58 Like, are those, like Reese calls them spies? Are they shadows or are they spies? And if they're shadows, like, how are they getting shut down? Yeah. Like how does one simply shut down Azrael's shadows? No, I don't know. I think the spy network is a is a huge question like who are these people? Reese specifically brings up Nuala and Sarah Dwin who were shadow wraiths, have shadow wraiths who were trained by Azrael and Reese says they report to me and Azrael. So are there other shadow wraiths? Are these the spies?

25:29 And in that case is anything that's of shadow right? Is any shadows? Like what? What does this pay more attention to? Those shadows, I think. You think you have to? Yeah, OK. I have a couple more notes here. There might be some kind of singing involved. He's called a shadow singer, right? So in our bonus chapter Gwen asks if he can sing and he says yes but but he didn't feel like explaining or demonstrating since that's what she would ask next.

25:54 So Gwynn glows when she sings. Is Azrael like cloaked in shadow when he sings? I don't know. So here's something that I think is really interesting. His shadows work outside of the binding magic that happens at the Council of the High Lords. That's supposed to prevent fighting, right? So the quote we have for that, and this is when Azrael is going after Eris and Baron because they insulted Farrah. This is the don't talk about my High Lady quote that we all love or be careful how you speak about my High Lady. So the quote is Azrael squeezed Eris thrashing beneath him. No physical brawling.

26:32 There had been a rule against that. But Azrael with whatever power those shadows gave him, dot, dot, dot. That's what we get. We get dot, dot, dot. We got no fucking explanation. And then Farrah says enough as, or he says enough as real. Reese ordered. Perhaps those shadows that now slid and eddied around the shadow singer hit him from the wrath of the binding magic. So whatever this binding Faye magic is, it seems that the shadows exist outside of that somehow. So maybe they have a different source, maybe they are a different type of power.

27:00 We don't really know, but it seems like they're kind of a loophole in this somehow. Phaera's magic also seems to perhaps work outside of this binding magic from the High Lords in the High Lords Council. So the quote for that is this is after she has kind of demonstrated her powers at the High Lord Council and Baron's like, oh, she took my power, she took a drop of my power. It seems she took far more than that. Helion argued.

27:23 If she could be within seconds of drowning Baron, despite the words, perhaps I'd gotten around them simply by being made outside anything the words knew to recognize. So I don't know. Is this connected? Does Azrael also somehow have made power? A lot of things are seeming to be made. I don't really know. I don't really love it.

27:39 So like, I don't, I'm not saying that is that, but it's an interesting parallel, I think that is, these are all within pages of each other, right? So I do think we're supposed to make this connection here. I mean yes they could be made they recoil from the cauldrons power. It doesn't seem to be a like to like situation.

27:57 No, but I agree. Nazreel can definitely feel the cauldron when it's being wielded the same way that the sisters can. So I like, I I think that was our indication. Nobody else could hear it. Like not even Reese. Yeah. No one else could feel. He says. He says the shadows and the winds are. Recoiling the shadows recoil. Yeah, so.

28:18 Yeah, and not even Reese. Feel the shadows can, yeah. No, but it's it's that's that's that's the point. That is the point, I think, right. Like, it's not it isn't, it isn't this made power, but for some reason it's also a loophole. So like, what is that about? Yeah, I have one more thing here, but it's a little wack a doodle.

28:35 So do we want to talk about anything else here? About eyes and ears, No, I'm good there. Are, as I mentioned, other instances where we hear about shadows and wind and stuff. So the first one is the prison. So what we hear, what we're told here, is that the guards of the prison are nothing but shadows of thought and an ancient spell.

28:57 This is like one of your. Favorite. I was gonna do a lot later, but we can do it now. You want OK Do you want to do it later? No, no, we can do it now. All right, so the quote is, where are the guards? I managed to get out past the tightness in my lungs. They dwell within the rock of the mountain. He murmured, his hand finding mine and wrapping around it as he tugged me into the immortal gloom. They only emerge at feeding time or to deal with restless prisoners.

29:17 They are nothing but shadows of thought in an ancient spell when they are talking about going to the prison in Mist and Fury for the first time. Azrael says I'll go. The prison sentries know me, what I am. So we have these beings of shadow that dwell in the stone and Azrael says they know me, they know what I am.

29:35 So what is his connection to those prison sentries and that ancient spell like I like what are what is happening here? I also mentioned before that Reese mentioned described Azrael shadow singing as the language of shadow and wind and ancient stone. We have a couple different times where Azrael is also talking to the wind and stone.

29:55 So one, this is from Miss and Fury chapter 20, chapter 42. We search, but the missed arrows have been snatched up by our attackers and even the shadows and wind told Azrael nothing as if our enemy had been hitting from them as well. And then this is the quote we just talked about about the cauldron. So he says the shadows in the wind recoil. He says no, but the shadows, the wind, they recoil. When asked if he could feel the cauldron, so no, but the shadows in the wind feel it right?

30:19 There are other powerful beings in this world, some connected to the prison but some not, who can also hear the wind and the stone. OK so the first one is Bree Axis right? So the quote for that is this is Bree Axis talking to Farah. He says the stone and wind hear all, speak all. They whispered of me to your desire. They whispered to me of your desire to wield the Carver to trade.

30:43 That's in Aqua War chapter 31, where I Axis also called a living nest of shadows next one Ameren. So this is when they're asking Ameren like how she got out of the prison and she won't tell them. They say why she say because the stone beneath this house has ears. The wind has ears, all of it listening. And if it reports back, they will remember that they have not caught me and I will not let me then put me in that black pit again.

31:06 Right bone Carver, one of our favorite quotes here. What if I tell you what the rock and darkness and sea beyond whispered to me, Lord of bloodshed? How they shuddered in fear on that island across the So that's the rocks whispering to him, right, Meryl? Meryl the Librarian, The wind whispers to me, even here under so much stone. Meryl said it finds its way in through the cracks and murmurs the goings on of the world in my ear. Do you think you are entitled to do as you please? Now remember, Meryl claims to be the descendant of the western wind, right?

31:35 So is that in play here somehow? Last one, Lanthus, we heard about you down here. You are the one the sea and the wind and the earth whispered off. He shuddered. Nesta. He grinned, showing his. He's slightly too long. You took from the Cauldron itself. So here we have two to three death gods, Ameren, and a descendant of the Western Wind, all of who are talking about hearing the wind whispered to them.

31:59 And then we have Azrael, Right. So like, what's going on here? Like, does he have a connection to death gods? Interestingly, all of these people are also, like, usually underground except for Amarin. So is this like, something about being within, like, the bowels of Prithean itself that kind of like, develops this power? Well, Amarin, I don't know for a long time. Amarin was for a long time.

32:18 That's a great point. I forgot about that. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know, but we're getting a lot of parallels between Azrael and he's like higher powered beings that we don't know what his connection to them is or why he has similar powers to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're asking me to define a shadow singer, yes, it's somebody who knows that language.

32:41 It could be learned. It could also be like all of these people, the Amarin, Merrill and Azrael all have bloodline questions in my opinion. So yeah, like, what is Amarin? We haven't talked about Amarin yet, but we will. We will. Merrill claims to be a descendant of Wind. The fuck does that mean? And as real is about.

33:01 To. So all is at play. Yeah, all is at play. All right, cool. All right. So I think we've beat a dead horse on Shadow Sea. So now we'll get. Into Azrael's next power. So Ron, what is Azrael's when when knowing? Yes, it's different from others the headline, but as we talked about this, I think we should keep in mind Azrael's lineage, at least in what we know about it, right? He is the bastard son of a local Illyrian Lord and a quote near slave for a mother.

33:31 His mother is assumed to be Illyrian as well. But as I texted you desperately trying to find a specific reference that's not really Canon yet, we assume that she's Illyrian because he appears full Illyrian, and Reese's mother knows her, who was also a lowborn Illyrian. But we don't know anything else about Azrael's mother except for that she is probably alive. So I hope that we learn.

33:52 I think we'll learn. Do you think she has to be Illyriad because she gave birth to him and like the Farrah and Nick's thing? Yeah, right. It's just not confirmed. Because he's Illyrian. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what else? What else is going on with her? Like we have no idea. No, absolutely. And like she's low born. So like, goodness knows what's happening with that. At least in my mind, Illyrian Lords are likely pretty purebred Illyrians because we've learned that Illyrians are very specific about maintaining like the purity of their bloodline. But like the lowers, especially the ones who are like unfortunately assaulted and then just bear children as a result of it.

34:27 Like who knows? But let's talk about just winnowing in general and then why Azrael's is different because the headline here is Azrael's winnowing tower is different. So what is it we have? Winnowing, as Reese describes it, is basically folding the fabric of worlds like a cloth and cutting across the piece of cloth. So that quote from Akimath is when Pharaoh basically see someone vanishing for the first time. After seeing it many times, has the courage to ask like, what is that?

34:56 Could you please define that for me? Reese says winnowing. Think of it as two different points on a piece of cloth. One point is your current place in the world, The other one across the cloth is where you want to go. Winnowing. It's like folding that cloth so the two spots align. The magic does the folding, and all we do is take a step to get from one place to the other. Sometimes it's a long step and you can feel the dark fabric of the world as you pass through it. A shorter step, let's say from one end of the room to the other, would barely register.

35:23 It's a rare gift and a helpful 1, though. Only the stronger Faye can do it. The more how powerful you are, the farther you can jump between places in one go. That sensation is typically described as Farrah experiences it second hand and then eventually first hand as vanishing into a dark wind moving through stars and blackness.

35:42 At least when Reese when I was right she she describes it as feeling her own lightness folding her very self into wind and shadow and dust. She also says when she's winnowing that she feels time slow and curl as real typically lets Reese winnow them far distances. So Farah kind of assumes that he just lets Reese do that because Reese is way more powerful and it doesn't drain them as much.

36:05 But he can also winnow as we learn, right? And his winnowing is described by Cassian as not winnowing, objectively not winnowing. So it's not a question like, oh, is as Reel's winnowing power different? Because Farah describes it as feeling different. Like no, Cassian in chapter 3 of A Court of Frost and Starlight says the strange way that as could move through the world without technically winnowing. He never asked and Azrael had never explained. So when Azrael winnows, it's described as colder, sharper, and different.

36:37 So while Reese's power is described as folding the fabric of this world, Azrael's is described as quote cutting right through it like a blade Spearing us towards, you know, wherever, wherever they were going. So Azrael's winnowing is definitely different. It could just be his gifts, his shadow wielding gifts that grant him the ability to through the world like that. You brought up the quote where he's kind of moving with shadows.

37:00 It's unclear whether he's wielding them, becoming them, and if he's becoming shadow, then I can completely understand how he would be able to vanish and appear in one place versus another. I have two kind of off kilter ideas here. One, could it be related to the fact that he wields Truth Teller?

37:17 It is described as cutting through the world like a blade and he carries Truth Teller. There's only one moment in this series where he's not carrying Truth Teller and it's when he's injured during the battle at Highburn. Truth Teller, just quick reminder, is a very unique ruined Obsidian dagger that he literally never let's go off and Reese says he's never let anybody use it ever again.

37:41 Kind of crazy side note but Elaine like just appears behind. Elaine just appears. I have that in my nose. She just. Appears. So we know that runes in fantasy in general typically grant certain powers, so maybe he has something different about him with this dagger that allows him to wield this power and move through the world because he carries truth teller.

38:06 I think that could be really interesting, especially because we're given the cuts like a blade reference and he carries this blade. Anything to add to that? That's what I literally have in my notes. Elaine just fucking appears. She appears. Behind Hyburn, Mark I I. Actually was like can I plot out where Elaine was at every moment in this episode or in this battle? So for refresher, Ronnie just mentioned it, but we are talking about the last battle in Aqua War where they are facing off the king of Hyburn and Elaine appears and kills the king of Hyburn.

38:34 So when we last, first of all, Elaine, the quote is Elaine stepped out of a shadow behind him, right Shadow stepped out of a shadow behind him and ram truth teller to the hilt through the back of the King's neck. Reese has moved Elaine at this point in time to the farthest reaches of their camp.

38:50 These are direct quotes and there is battle raging in every direction right Nesta and Cassian to get to this Ridge, they fly there, but Azrael's fighting, Reese's fighting, there is no one to fly Elaine to this Ridge above the battle then that is specifically called out. We get 2 distinct think call outs about where Azrael and Reese are.

39:09 So the quote is we were losing badly. Seraphim and Elyrians were bloodied and being hauled out of the sky. Azrael had been forced to the ground, his wings dragging in the bloody mud as he fought sword to sword against the endless onslaught. I saw Reese and in the thick of those breaking lines, blood splattered, fighting beautifully.

39:25 I saw him assess the field ahead and transform. Both of those quotes are when from Feyra is traveling with the cauldron and goes to see Nesta and Cassian fighting the king of Hybrid right? Cassian is with Nesta. How did Elaine get to them? How did she do it? Truth tellers cutting through the world is how.

39:42 I think so. I think so. That's how, yeah. I don't know, yeah. Yeah. So I think that's it, regardless of what. I'm about to. Say honestly, I think I think actually the two work together. So you were to hear first truth tellers how Azrael witness. There is one more interesting tangent on this. Farrah describes winnowing in general, like traveling through the world, as making use of pockets or pocket realms.

40:08 So when she's about to winnow for the first time, she's thinking, I couldn't fold myself Into Darkness and pockets. And if I could, if I could turn myself into smoke, into air and night and stars, I'd use it to appear right in front of him and smack that smile off his face. This is when she's about to 1st winnow. Reese is also described to use pockets between realms for storage and we learned there's no air there when Farrah basically suggests that he go fuck off to one of these pocket realms.

40:34 Like I can't do that, there's no air. These pockets between realms are basically voids right between worlds making it seem like they are almost world jumping but always landing in the same world as in particular right who is cutting through the world through the world like a blade. Reese and Azrael we know are both very interested in life beyond their own world and we learned this in A Court of Silver Flames chapter 3 when Cassian is in Reese's office and sees that he has this working model that Reese built of their world. That quote allowed Reese to ponder the existence of life beyond their own world and Cassian basically says this is boring as fuck to me but Azrael likes it. Like, Azrael in particular has

41:17 always been fascinated by this. So is winnowing world jumping, landing in the same world? And are they trying to understand, like, more about that? Basically, has this power that they possess inspired them to think more about like, well, if I'm jumping to different places in my own world and there might be other worlds, like, can I jump to others too? And we know, right, that Meryl was researching worlds beyond Prythian specifically living on top of each other without even knowing it.

41:44 So I think it's it's interesting to think that as real slash truth teller could have this ability. Potentially, I agree. I agree. I but yeah, I I love it when we get to the same point, having prep separately. But I yeah, I agree. I think it has to be tied to truth teller. I think it's got to be like, yeah, or something else.

42:03 But there is compelling evidence for it to be truth teller. There's compelling evidence for it to be truth teller. And yeah, I just can't get over the Elaine thing like. Why is this never brought up? Like Elaine, how did you sneak up on the King of Highburn and the? Cauldron like kind of in the cauldron too, right?

42:24 Like. You don't think the Cauldron knew? I think the Cauldron knew. OK, maybe the I think the Cauldron was down for the King of Highborn to die, Right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. OK, cool. Anything else? Found my question. Let me look. The only thing I'd add is you mentioned that Azrael let's Reese winnow them when they're going far distances, but we also see as winnow all winnow in quotes all the way from Philaris I believe to the human lands.

42:51 So like he can do it like he can winnow very far to. The human lands. I believe. I believe he winnows to. He definitely does to Highburn's camp, but I thought Reese winnowed them to the human lands and then as flew. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong because the quotes I have here did not pace correctly so I don't have those quotes, so maybe I'm wrong.

43:13 Let's revisit. I mean, I'm not willing to trust Pharaoh's interpretations of why Azrael. Let's Reese winnow them to be clear. Yeah, I think it doesn't matter. But I think I do think it's probably a question like if it is Truth teller, what are the limits? Like why is why does Reese ever have to winnow as real? Yeah, I don't know.

43:35 And can I just tell you to rant against the ACOTAR wiki once again? It's bad. It's really bad for these characters, yeah. It literally said Azrael's winnowing is him moving through the shadows of the world. Like I'm like, no, we've never been told that. That's literally never in the text. It's not described that way at all. Like it's like it's like his shadow singing ability gave him the winnowing ability.

43:59 And I'm like, there's nothing in this book that ties these together like. Actually cold, sharp and cuts through the world like a blade. Why don't you put that in your wiki? Yeah? Anyway, all right, all right. No, that was a great question. Abby, why is Azrael able to remember the trove when Ameren forgot it? All right, I would like to shout out a Tumblr that put me on to this line of thinking.

44:23 The Tumblr is called Off to Rivendell, which I love it so, and I also pulled from some of their stuff for the next quote as well. I didn't directly lift it, I don't think it's the exact same theory, but they got the gears turning. So shout out to Off to Rivendell. All right, so Nesta points this out to us in 1/4 Silver Flames. This is kind of a long quote, but stay with me. It's about the Trove.

44:46 It has been 10,000 years since anyone used the trove. I assumed it was all at the bottom of an ocean made objects tend to not wish to be found by just anyone. Ameren cautioned that they have faded from memory that even and I didn't think of them immediately in the fight against Highburn suggests that perhaps they willed it that way, wanted to stay hidden. True things of power have such gifts. So we're being told that the trove wants to stay hidden. Or Sarah J Mass decided, hey, I want to might write a trove, but I haven't mentioned it until now, so I need a reason for that.

45:15 But you know we forgive her, all right? Part 2 of this quote. You say that as if the objects have a sentience. Cassian said. They do. Amarin said, storms drifting across her eyes. They were made in a time when wild magic still roam the earth, and the Fae were not masters of all made objects back then, tended to gain their own self-awareness and desires. It was not a good thing.

45:35 Amarin's face clouded with memory and a chill whispered over Nesta's spine. Nesta stiffened. If they're all enchanting you to forget, how is it that Azrael was able to remember and bear the information here? So Nessa specifically calls this out for us, right. Like, hey, if if even Amarin forgot about it, how is it that Azrael was able to remember it? Amarin gives us an answer.

45:56 I think it's kind of weak. I don't like it. So the answer is perhaps once you learn of it, recognize that the spell is broken, Amarin said. Or perhaps the Dread Trove wants us to know of it now for some dark reason of its own. Yeah. OK, that could be it. Let's explore other options, because those are more fun. Lame.

46:11 All right, Azrael, there's also a quote, I don't have the page number, I'm sorry, but there is a quote in Silver Flames where Azrael seems to know more about the Dread Trove than other people. So the quote is Azrael stiffened. This is when they're suggesting that they use Elaine to scribe for the trove.

46:29 Azrael stiffened. An outright sign of temper, as outright a sign of temper for him. As he said quietly, there is an innate darkness to the Dread Trove that Elaine should not be exposed to, right? So that's that implies to me some like insider knowledge here, right? There is an innate darkness to the dread trove. Maybe it's not, maybe everyone knows, but he's like pointing it out like, Hey, we don't want to lane anywhere near this thing, right?

46:50 I want to talk about the similarities between Azrael and Kosche, our big, our big Batty boy Kosche. So first thing we're talked about, we talked about in the shadow singing that Azrael can like talk to the wind, right? Kosche can also talk to the wind. We have a couple quotes there. So what Vasa suspected is true.

47:10 The death Lord Koche has been whispering in Brie Allen's ear. He remains trapped in his leg, but his words carry on the wind. To her he is ancient, his depth of knowledge fathomless. He pointed Brie Allen towards the Dread trove, not for her sake, for his own ends. It's our first quote. The second quote. The story is too long to tell She Hedge, but we know that Brie Allen and the others sold to him, and the other sold me to him, not through their devices, but his by words he planted in their courts.

47:37 Whispered on the winds. We know that the wind whispers to Azrael, right? He says it a bunch of times. He talks about the wind whispering to him. Seems like Coast J can talk to the wind. Is Azrael hearing Coast J through the wind? I don't know. Just throwing that, just throwing that option out there. There are times we've talked about this earlier in this episode where Azrael is described only as shadow. So one of the quotes for that is when they are flying to Highburn, no sign or glimmer of Reese's presence, presence near or behind us, a few yards ahead.

48:07 Azrael was a swift shadow over the Blackwater towards the landmass we were now approaching. We talked about when they're in the Highburn's war camp. We've talked about other times where Azrael is just shadow, Koche appears as only shadows. So the quote for that is 30 feet from the from the shore. Standing atop the surface floated a shadow. It shifted and warped, its edges fluttering, but it had the vague shape of a tall male.

48:29 Who are you? Azrael demanded, but Cassia knew. Kostray. He whispered. The being that stood up top of the lake was a shadow. It must be a reflection, Cassian thought. Smoke and mirrors. So shadows galore over here, right? We got Kostraya shadows, we got Azraela shadows. We got Kostray talking to the wind.

48:45 We got Azrael hearing the wind. They are also both called Death. So when Pharah sees Azrael hand Elaine truth Teller in Akawar, the quote is. Elaine looked up at Azrael, their eyes meeting, his hands still lingering on the hilt of the blade. I saw the painting in my mind. The lovely fawn blooming spring, Viber behind her, standing before death, shadows and terror lurking over his shoulder, light and dark, the space between their bodies a blend of the two.

49:11 The only British connection. That knife. She literally calls Azrael death. I think it's kind of crazy because obviously we usually get that imagery with Reese and I actually want to talk about this before we go to Mass verse and Nasta, but like I just think this is kind of a crazy quote. And then Eris describing or sorry, Vasa describing Koche. The quote is yes, Vasa said, relief in her eyes. But Koche is as old as the sea older. Some say he is death itself.

49:38 Eris murmured. So it was Eris. So we have two. We have Eris and we're sorry. We have Azrael and Koche being called death. So we have wind shadows and death now. So here's my thoughts on this now that we've pointed out the barrel is Koche either one manipulating as to trick him and the inner circle to get the troph right.

49:57 He wants the trove back in play. He knows the inner circle can get it. The inner circle does get it right. So is he manipulating Azrael somehow through this Shadow Wind death connection that they have? Or does Azrael have a connection to Coach J? May be genetic. You mentioned before we don't really know that much about Azrael's back story, right?

50:16 So is is he somewhere in Azrael's like family history? And remember Lanthus sent Nesta the image of her pregnant. So we know that deaf gods can have children. We don't know exactly how it works, but like it is in play that deaf gods can have offspring. Is that why Azrael is able to remember the trove?

50:32 Because whatever magic, whatever spell this is doesn't work on him because he is tied to this deaf God? I don't know, I don't know. Those are my thoughts. What are your thoughts? I also want the Koche route like. Fucking great episode. I mean, who's looking for the trove in this series? It's Koche. It's Koche.

50:51 I don't. I don't feel like I have anything else to add. Yeah. It's Koche. It's Koche. It's Koche. It's Truth Teller. It's Koche. Yeah. OK, cool. I don't think so. OK, well we talked about in our Elaine episode the potential for the Cauldron to be able to manipulate Elaine. I think manipulate, like I think manipulation is at play here across all characters. Arguably I agree, except for maybe Reef and maybe more. And I think these two things that I have put here can both be true.

51:20 I think he can both be a Coach J relative and Coach J is manipulating him. I think both of those things, yeah. Honestly, the first time I read the Coach J chapter, when Coach J shows up, I I thought he was saying I, I don't have the exact quote, but he's like, oh, you're leaving so soon. I've been preparing for you for so many months. It seems like he's saying it to Azrael. But then because of the following events, we think he's saying it to Cassian.

51:46 But I think it's a little up in the air. Obviously, he let's Azrael go, right. And he lets Eris go. He's like, let's Azrael fly away and he keeps Cassie in. But I do think there's a little bit of like, perhaps trickery there with Sarah. Cool. All right. Great. We are. Great episode. Innocent instinct this episode, Ronnie. Why is Azz so unlucky in love and so blind about more when he is a spy?

52:11 Yeah. Poor as as has been done, rough hand. I know. It is heavily alluded to that Azrael is obsessed with more through the 1st 2, maybe three books and directly mentioned by Reese that he has been pining after her for the last 500 years. Azrael, as heavily elaborated on in the prior questions in this episode, is also a very skilled shadow singer in Spy. So how could he not possibly have gathered at this point that that is never going to happen?

52:43 Either by just knowing that more will never feel that way for him, or two by knowing where Moore is. I actually didn't prep anything related to this. But what you said in the beginning when you were talking about shadow singing and how the shadows choose not to tell him certain things like Gwen being in the ring are the shadows choosing not to tell him about Moore for some reason.

53:07 I prep nothing related to this. I have a whole answer to be clear. OK, I prepped almost exclusively about this. So you do your answer and then we'll talk. Sure. Fine, fine, all right, so how could he possibly not know that Moore is not into him and into primarily women, at least emotionally? His bad luck seems to continue when he is pretty recklessly attracted to Elaine on a mate style who already has another male that is suggested to be her mate. As an aside, I've really come to hate this entire plot line and I just think it massively objectifies Elaine. Like I'm kind of over it like this entire what's going on with Azrael and Elaine, but I will continue to talk about it, but I just hate talking about it.

53:48 I hate it. All right, so we've got a few questions to answer here. One, why did as bother to continue pursuing more? Is he genuinely just completely blind or is he aware and is just so lovesick that he cannot stop? That's obviously a pretty speculative question. I have a few different theories but I genuinely think it's just too soon to tell what's right and what's wrong.

54:09 One theory that I personally don't love but have seen around is that More is indeed Azrael's mate, but More rejected the bond and Azrael has just been unable to accept it in a Court of Silver Flames bonus chapter. Reese directly asks what of More? Why would Reese even bother prodding on that if there weren't some pre-existing discussion to follow up on? And does Reese know something here? Like something about More?

54:37 Something about More rejecting it? She thinks she's been keeping this big secret. Or she at least she tells Feyra she's been keeping this big secret, but like, why would Reese even ask? There's also all sorts of little Easter eggs across the series, right? Where only More is able to convince Azrael of something or More stares at it like a spot on the ground, like long after Azrael is gone or Azrael is about to go to Highburn's camp. And More is like literally beside herself with worry. And like why would she withhold information for so long from him if not like genuine love and care for him? Like could they have been mates?

55:11 But she's just not sexually that way. And that was it. I don't love it, but I acknowledge, I acknowledge that enough. Is there another theory similar to what we've discussed previously is that Azrael is being continuously distracted by women to keep him from wherever he's supposed to be. And maybe Elaine is where he's supposed to be because that very much is currently presented as the incorrect path.

55:34 And I think it would probably make sense now to acknowledge a very popular theory that we keep getting asked to talk about, which we will discuss more in our Reese episode, that Reese is actually manipulating everyone around him. I will say that if we agree that the series in its entirety could feasibly just be flipped entirely on its head and this was all Sarah J Mass setting us up to sympathize with the big bad villain, it would be the craziest thing she's ever done.

56:01 It would be the craziest thing she's ever done. Like it just would be like even even in other series she's written where there's been plot twists, it has not been of this magnitude. But I I just want to acknowledge the theory itself and the reasons that it could work. He made if this is true, right? If this is true, when Reese has this ability, then he made an estimates with Cassian, which is getting her immense power on his side and ensuring that she is allied with Night Court and the Illyrians in particular.

56:30 He also would have made then Lucian Elaine's mate. And to your point, ensuring that Farah would always be protected in the Supreme Court and just ensuring that there's like good political ties in general, potential allyship with two courts, Autumn and Day. He could also be trying to ensure as Reals loyalty by making him fall madly in love with his cousin. That's also an option, ensuring that as Real does not attempt to overthrow him in any way.

56:55 And when he meets Elaine, that all starts to kind of fall apart. And maybe she's meant to be his true weight. Magic wise and mate wise. I think this could work. I personally, I personally believe that it is unlikely because, you know, character wise, it just doesn't. Yeah, I don't think it makes any sense. I think it can make sense of someone else is doing it. I totally think it can make sense of someone else is doing it.

57:21 We have so much of Reese's POV. We get a lot of goodwill point of view from Reese specifically. And I know that there's a lot of listeners or really just like fans of the series in general out there who think that we aren't reading this series with an open mind if we don't consider the possibility of Reese being kind of a villain in this story or manipulating others around them. And I am looking at it with an open mind, like there is great reasons that he could do this, but what are the reasons that we're given his point of view?

57:52 There is certainly much more compelling evidence that Reese is good rather than that Reese is bad. But if you are that type of listener, and if you think that we are not doing a good job, I encourage you to read the mass verse and then listen to our Reese's Family deep dive. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

58:05 Yeah. Like we, we have thoughts. We don't think he's perfect. There's only so much you could talk about within ACOTAR though, unfortunately. So I just don't really see it happening, but I acknowledge the literary legitimacy of it. I like better the possibility that someone else is doing it. Not Reese.

58:23 We've got so much of play. We've got a cauldron, we've got a dread trove that can control people. We've got a lot of stuff here that could be messing with Azrael and and mating bonds and all that stuff. My last kind of fun theory here, and one that makes me very sad, is that Azrael's made us dead. And the reason then that that I think that might be true is in a court of silver flames when Nesta is stuck in the blood, right?

58:44 Azrael tells Cassian that he would know if Nesta were dead. Why would Azrael know that you would know if your mate was dead? Could Azrael know that because he himself had experienced a mate death once? Could it have been Reese's sister? Maybe, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I think just to beat this dead horse, even though we think that the OR the at least even though that I think that the Lucian and Elaine mating bond is sketchy and maybe isn't what we believe it to be. That does not necessarily mean I think that Elaine and Azriel are mates, right?

59:17 Like they're just clearly into each other. Right. They're clearly into each other, right? No one has been this into somebody else. When they have a mate right in front of them, right On Elaine's, on Elaine's side that is. Right. So it's I'm not, I think you're right, Elaine and Azrael not necessarily mates. That doesn't mean I don't think they might not end up together just because they're not mates.

59:40 Right. Like, yeah, cool. OK, let's talk about the shadows. Not telling the shadows, all right? It's way more interesting. OK, so a couple things background here. So Moore tells us Azrael has had no shortage of lovers. So the quote for that is Azrael's got no shortage of lovers, though, don't worry, he's better at keeping them secret than we are.

59:59 But he has some and that's in Mist and Fury. And again, it's present tense. He's got no shortage of lovers. Not he has had no shortage of lovers, Right. So current, current tense. Moore also says Azrael doesn't think he's good enough for. For anyone. So this is kind of that psychological play, right?

1:00:14 Where like he doesn't think he's good enough for more. We get the impression he doesn't think he's good enough for Elaine, perhaps like Elaine is kind of like the ultimate unattainable woman for him, right? So like maybe that's in play. That's kind of the psychological like, oh, I want her because I know I could never have her.

1:00:30 So the quote for that is the issue actually wouldn't be me. It'd be him. I could peel off my clothes right in front of him and he wouldn't move an inch. He might have defied to prove those Illyrian pricks wrong at every term, but it won't matter if Reese makes him Principal Polaris. They'll still see himself as a bastard born nobody and not good enough for anyone, especially me. Pretty sad.

1:00:48 Pretty sad for everybody. As that he feels that way about himself, or that Moore thinks he feels that way about himself. All right, so I broke this down. I wrote in my notes, let's talk about his shadows and his love interest because his shadows react differently to different love interests and I think it's telling. So his shadows lighten and vanish when they see more, vanish around a lane and dance when they see Gwen right. So the quotes for more, these are both in Mist and Fury chapter 16.

1:01:16 It was almost enough to distract me from noticing Azrael as those shadows lightened and his gaze slid over Moore's body. The next one, the lurking shadows, vanished entirely as Azrael's head dipped a bit, his bright dark hair sliding over his handsome face as if to shield him from that mercilessly, mercilessly beautiful grip.

1:01:34 So we've got his shadows. Lightning, lightning and then vanishing around more. Elaine, We've read this quote, but in case this is your first episode, you'll hear it again. Elaine sucked in a soft breath that whispered over his skin. Sorry, this is from the Silver Flames bonus chapter that Ronnie mentioned before. Elaine sucked in a soft breath that whispered over his skin. His shadows skittered back at the sound. They'd always been prone to vanish when she was around. And then in ACA War we have.

1:02:00 Azrael arrived first. No shadows to be seen. My sister a pale golden mass in his arms. He too wore his Illyrian armor, Elaine's golden brown hair snagging in some of the black scales across his chest and shoulder. So he's flying Elaine somewhere. His shadows are nowhere to be seen. I can help her, said Azrael, stepping to the table as Elaine silently rose. No shadows at his ear, no darkness ringing his fingers as he extended a hand.

1:02:24 So we have these two women that he is very, I don't know if I would say in love with, but that he definitely is interested in, has crushes on and his shadows are vanishing. Then we get Gwen and our. And again this is the silver flames bonus chapter. Her breath curls in front of her mouth and one of his shadows darted over to dance with it before twirling back to him like it heard some silent music.

1:02:45 And then we have. Azrael dipped his head in a sketch of a bow, something restless settling in him. Even his shadows had calmed, as if content to lounge on his shoulders and watch. So his shadows are calm, his shadows are dancing, right? How his shadows normally react, right? We have to kind of look at the whole series for how his shadows normally react.

1:03:05 When he is happy they seem to lighten and disappear. So the quotes for that is when Pharah first meets him and he's having dinner with his family. She notices 2 times when his shadows disappear. So the first one for more padded Azrael on the shoulder as she dodged his outstretched wing. Relax as no fighting tonight we promised Reese.

1:03:24 The lurking shadows vanished entirely as Azrael's head dipped a bit a bit. I guess this is the same quote I read before, but basically he's like with his family, he's with more his shadows are lightning, he's he's in a good place. The next one, get to know them and this is this is also during that dinner scene. Get to know them.

1:03:42 Try to envision how I might work with them, rely on them If this conflict with Highburn exploded. I scrambled for something to ask and said to Azrael, those shadows gone again. How did you? I mean, how do you and Lord Cassian, And that's when Cassian spits out as one, right? So when he's around his family, his shadows kind of disappear and and that kind of fits with what we've been told, right?

1:04:01 The shadows, like in theory came to him in kind of some of the darkest moments of his life. Yep, he definitely uses them to hide or like to seek sanctuary when he's feeling upset or uncomfortable. Yeah, right. So when Cassian and AS are waiting for recent favor to come back from the prison and Akimath, the quote is.

1:04:22 Cassian gave him a vulgar gesture from where he lounged on the couch before the hearth and arms slung over the back behind Moore blah blah blah. Azrael lingered by the window, comfortably ensconced in shadows, a light flurry of snow dusting the lawn and St. behind him. So they're all waiting for Reese and Fayre to come back.

1:04:39 Like, anxious as fuck, not sure what's going to happen. And Azrael is cloaked in shadows when Moore and Reese are fighting about allying with Kier against Highburn. The quote is too far. This was pushing them both too far. I tried to catch Cassian's gaze, but he was monitoring them closely, his golden brown skin unnaturally pale as real shadows gathered close, half veil, half veiling him from view. So when he is in like an uncomfortable situation, the shadows come out, and when he's relaxed and happy, they disappear.

1:05:08 And then there's a quote from Coach J when he's actually facing off of it against danger, they stay back, but they don't retreat, right? So it's not like they, it's not like they're scared when, when he's in danger, the shadows aren't appearing, they're still there, but they might stay back. So the quote with Koche is they could make out nothing of him beyond the shadows of his form, even Azrael's own shadows kept tucked beneath his wings. Koche laughed and Azrael stiffened like his shadows had murmured a warning.

1:05:32 So it's like, it's not, they don't disappear when he's in danger. They're there, they're helping him. They might be like back a little bit, but they're not scared. So to answer the original question, how does Azrael not know what the fuck is going on with Moore if his shadows disappear when he's around more Because he's happy around her then they are.

1:05:49 They're not there to tell him. Hey, more is maybe not that into you, right? So that is like the most basic answer of this question. Other thoughts here, like maybe there's something about more in Elaine's magic that actually would like calm his shadows and he mistakes that for love or attraction. He's like, Oh, my shadows disappear around these women and I always know that I feel better when my shadows are gone. So maybe that's, you know, and Elaine is strongly associated with spring and sunlight and growing things, right? Obviously shadows disappear in sunlight. So maybe that's like part of her personality is able to kind of like, soothe that part of him.

1:06:25 Yeah. However, More is not strongly associated with sunlight at all. Right. So like, I don't know what kind of the parallel between those would be, but I don't know. I don't know. I mean, we've talked about this before. I've not. I don't know how this is all going to play out. We have shadows disappearing with More and Elaine, and maybe that's a sign that Elaine is not a good match because we know More is a good match.

1:06:43 And then we have them dancing and being relaxed around Gwen. So I don't know how this is all going to play out, but I think always pay attention to how as real shadows react around different people. I think that's a big clue. Yeah, yeah. And then I had this note about Reese, Reese directing as towards Mark, which is just so fucking weird in the bonus chapter.

1:07:01 Like why? Why would Reese point as towards more? He has to know that that's a dead end, right? So like, why would he say what about more? Which I think is yeah, it's certainly, it's certainly questionable. Certainly worth worth thinking about. I don't have an answer, but it's fishy. Yeah, definitely fishy. Yeah, Yeah, I do think, I think we would be overcomplicating. I think if we were trying to if if we were to argue that as real, we're not like definitely attracted to more for a time, definitely attracted to Elaine current, right. Like that is 100% true.

1:07:39 I thought you were going to go in the direction of his shadows. So so it's interesting, right? His shadows coming out and shielding him and being present when he's in danger and present when he's upset, but not present when he's happy. Like, do we? Do we necessarily know that Azrael and Azrael's shadows are always aligned?

1:08:01 Or did the shadows? Not have a mind of their own. And if they have a mind of their own, are they intentionally not? Or if they have a mind of their own or a mind of somebody else's, are they intentionally not reporting on more? Because we know he wasn't asking them about Lucian's whereabouts. So we he can control like what he does and doesn't hear from them. And they can definitely control what he does and doesn't hear from them.

1:08:25 Yeah. So is there something nefarious, like, is somebody else able to control these shadows or these shadows, like belonging to some greater power that's not as real, that is trying to manipulate what he thinks and how he feels, which would point to kind of tethered to more for 500 years until Elaine came along?

1:08:44 I don't know. I like that idea. I mean I think it points to Kostra. I think there is a chance that Kostra is is manipulating as his shadows. Yes. And in that case like why more? And why Elaine? And why Elaine? Yeah. Yeah, OK. I don't know, don't know. We thought about the. Answer is, we thought about it a lot and we still don't know. I do.

1:09:05 And that's OK, I. Would just hate if Azrael's mate was dead I don't think. But why would he know that you would know if your mate died? I would be OK potentially with a world where Azrael's mate was Reese's sister. I would potentially be OK with that. I don't know why. It's tight story writing, that's why. Yeah.

1:09:27 But yeah, kind of any other outcome like that, I would be, it would not be good and it would be a secret, right? Like, like, obviously Reese doesn't know that. Yeah, I think one of the things that bothers me so much about talking about all of this is I don't really know what I would like best at this point because I just want Azrael and Elaine independently and Lucian independently, admittedly, to all just be happy. And I don't like talking about this because everyone has a fucking opinion and comes after us in the comments about what we say.

1:09:56 Yeah, well, that too. But like that just exacerbates how much I really don't know what I want to be true here. So, yeah, yeah, again, I just think I've said this. Before If Elaine and Lucian find a way to be happy together, I'm all for it. Yeah, and also, by the way, like, not everyone needs to have a fucking mate.

1:10:13 Like it doesn't always need to be mates. Yeah, although it seems like in Sarah J Mass's world, it really everybody does have to be made. Someone did comment on one of our posts like not everyone ends up with their mate and I was like give me one fucking example in the mass first where someone hasn't ended up with their mate. I'll wait.

1:10:33 Like of our main characters, you know. Yeah, Yep. I'm with you. All right. Anything else on that one? No, no, just shadows, Koche manipulation, etcetera. Manipulation, etcetera. All right, Well, that marks the end. Of oh, I have a precog for Matt for acutar only. OK yeah, great. And I have one for mass first too.

1:10:55 OK, All right, so I want to we already mentioned this, but I want precog corner. Precog. Sorry, Precog corner. Precard corner is where we shower like craziest theories with not a lot to go off of. Usually we do them in the mass first section we Sorry about that. Precard corner, craziest theories. Not necessarily a lot to go off, but they're fun. This week I had one that could do ACOTAR only, so I thought I would treat our ACOTAR only listeners to it. All right, so this quote, we talked about it before, but I'm going to read it again when Azrael is giving Elaine truth teller.

1:11:25 Elaine looked up at Azrael, their eyes meeting, his hands still lingering on the health of the blade. I saw the painting in my mind, the lovely fawn blooming spring vibrant behind her, standing before death, shadows and terrors lurking over his shoulder, light and dark, the space between their bodies a blend of the two, the only bridge of connection. That knife.

1:11:44 So we are specifically getting Sarah is specifically calling our attention to this moment and emphasizing Elaine's light and Azrael's darkness and the knife. I want to talk about Hades and Persephone which I know people love to talk about with Pharah and Reese but holy fuck if this doesn't read like Hades and Persephone right so. More so than Pharah and Reese in my opinion. Like yes, so for refreshers and by the way, Discord listeners, I hope you're happy.

1:12:09 That's going to be mythology heavy 2 episodes. I think we are doing some mythology. So Hades and Greek mythology. God of the underworld who rules over the dead. Persephone, goddess of the flower, quintessential good girl, beautiful and full of life. The myth is, and this is a super duper Cliff note so apologies if I got anything wrong, but basically Hades captures her and she becomes his wife and queen of the underworld. Her mother Demidor, who is goddess of the harvest, becomes extremely distraught and crops stop growing. Zeus, realizing this is a big fucking problem, orders Hades to return Persephone to her mother.

1:12:44 However, Persephone has already eaten a pomegranate seed from the Underworld, so she is bound to spend a portion of each year there. Obviously, this is very reminiscent of recent Farah's bargain. However, stay with me with Azrael and Elaine here. She has to return to the Underworld for three months each year, and that is when winter happens because Demeter is sad and missing her daughter. This reminds me so much of Elaine, Azrael and Reese with Reese playing the role of Zeus right? So also side note, these stories were told as part of fuck Ellicinian mysteries, which kind of sounds like Elaine right? So I think the important part to note here is that Hades gets Persephone, but not 100% he

1:13:23 doesn't get her for the full year right? Does this mean pre cut corner? This is just crazy. This is just speculation right? Does this mean that somehow Elaine and Azrael will end up together but not full time? Not full time and I want to bring in another or maybe this is like the story we're getting set up for.

1:13:40 I want to bring in another mythology here. Kosh J. Kosh J is a death God. Kosh J, the death God is a real figure in Slavic mythology. We will do a full episode on Kosh J. So this is just a little little teaser. However, from the Wikipedia page on Kosh J, usually Kosh J takes the role of A a malevolent rival figure who competes for or entraps a male hero's love interest.

1:14:05 So is the book 6 plot going to be Elaine captures Koche or sorry captures and Azrael has to free her? I'm sure Lucian will be involved too somehow, but is that what happens? Or is Elaine going to somehow fall in love with Koche? Can Koche somehow disguise himself? I don't know, but I think it's interesting that we have that He is usually a a love rival, you know? Yeah.

1:14:31 Typically Coach, she's whole bit so far in this series is you were cursed by day, three by night or vice versa, right? So like, she could in theory bind herself to Koche somehow and still be with Azrael part time? Part time, practically right part time lover. But still kind of bound to Koche. That is the Vasa situation when she's actually being held at the lake. Like she's a firebird by day and then a woman by night. A woman by night.

1:15:01 When did she sleep? Poor girl. Yeah, probably is a bird. So if I were her. Yeah, All right. So that was kind of pre cod corner kind of wackadoodle out there. But I just the the Hades Persephone imagery there just felt so strong. I was like, I think we have to talk about it so. Yeah, I like it.

1:15:15 Yeah. Cool. I like it. All right, we are now going into mass verse. So if you have not read Crescent City, all three books that are published, and Throne of Glass, all eight books. OK, eight books that are published on Throne of Glass. You must leave. Well, you know you don't need to leave, but we will be spoiled from here on out. We are now going to cover spoilers for all of Sarah J Mass's published books.

1:15:41 So this is your final call. Love you, bye. Love you, bye. Get out or forever hold your peace. TuneIn next week for more. All right, Mass first time, do you have any mass first cosms? I do. All right, so the first one was a hilarious message that I just needed to share with you, but it is a mass first message so I couldn't read it until now.

1:16:01 I got this as Adm from Cody B Shout out to Cody B. Hi gals, just wanted to let you know that I just finished Crescent City book 1. Chugging along as best I can and like Abby, I too just want Hunt and Bryce to fuck. Turned to the acknowledgements and was flabbergasted, devastated let down to say the least.

1:16:19 Anywho, on to book 2 with high hopes. Also just wanted to say that I love you. I love you something. I love your podcast. I think it's what this says. Your behemoth episodes keep my day fun and interesting as I'm in the car all day and I love a good two hour distraction. Keep it up girls, love your work. So thanks, I thought that.

1:16:38 Was a fun message and I share your fucking frustrations go down. Here can really. It was devastated, flabbergasted, dumbfounded as well after Crescent City one all right and then. Say just read the beginning of A House of Sky and Breath and they were talking about their whole packs to not fuck for whatever period of time and I was like, you were full adults, you could just decide not to do that and it would be completely fine.

1:17:06 What is wrong with you? I cannot tell you how much that pissed me off. It's so click baity. It's so like, oh, I need to keep you fucking interested. So they're not going to fuck yet. I was like, Sarah, have some confidence in yourself. This book is good. Like, yeah, so annoying. Annoying. All right, Second one, this is from my Sharia Moore in response to your theory that Nesta forged the artesian. Arkeesian.

1:17:31 Artesian. Turkeesian amulet. Yeah, I am paraphrasing. We've talked about this before, but I never made this connection. When Pharaoh visits the bone Carver, the three circles, he's drawing three circles in the dirt, Right? So is this related to the Archer on sisters in the amulet? I don't know, but I love it. Great, great looks my Sherry Amour. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

1:17:54 And I love also the idea. I don't know whether this could hold, but like those three circles, there are also three sisters, and I think they're all what's the opposite of concentric. They're intersecting circles, so they have like a center. I think it would be so poetic if the resolution to the series had something to do with the uniting of all three sisters, and could they have forged that Arkeesian amulet? We also have three series that need to work. Oh, and that all intersect.

1:18:22 Yeah, true. Yes, yeah. I mean, we also have three death cards, right? We have phone cards, 3 worlds. Yeah. Yeah, lots of threes. Lots of threes. Lots of threes. Yeah, love it, love it. God, you could just feel the energy go up in the mass first section. I don't know, We're just having a good time. OK, any other mass first cousins? No, that's it for this one.

1:18:43 We did get to this in the last one, but I had an omission related to again, our Elaine episode where we talked about how as real Shadows reacted to Elaine, they fled. We didn't know whether that was good or bad. I feel like we kind of got there. But I do think it's worth pointing out. And this is a little bit of a spoiler for like future answers, but I think it's important. Like there are other shadow wielders in the series. Runes shadow magic seeks to veil him like it there are direct quotes that his shadow magic is seeking to veil him, shielding him from sight, shielding him from bad shit basically is when the shadows come out.

1:19:19 So the shadows fleeing to me is pretty unequivocally a good thing at this point, regardless of the types of shadows that you're wielding. And like, the parallels between Azrael and Rune and we will get into this. Oh yeah, right. But like, holy shit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, anyway, I actually had a thought. Maybe we'll do this now that I'm saying it and speaking it into the universe.

1:19:41 But I had an idea for the section where I was going to read you quotes and you were going to guess whether they were about Rune or Azrael. Literally they're always wreathed in shadows the summer. OK, and and then one social media shout out just because I think it's it's just sick and like it's not really related to this episode, but I want to get us thinking about it. We were already thinking about it, but we got a, in my opinion, lit shout out from a user named A under score L Under score A pointing out.

1:20:14 This quote at the beginning of Throne of Glass. Since returning from his travels, the king hadn't seemed any different, and was just as gruff with Kale as he'd always been. But the sudden disappearance, then returning without a single soul, There was something brewing. A cauldron that the king had journeyed to stir. A cauldron.

1:20:34 That's it. What book is that? Which book? That's Throne of Glass. That's the first Throne of Glass, yeah. Throne of Glass, the one titled Throne of. The one titled Throne of Glass, yes. I couldn't remember if it was Throne of Glass or Crown of Midnight. Yeah, a cauldron. So either she likes the same words or things are happening.

1:20:51 A cauldron that a king had journeyed to stir. And you think that's not about Prithean directly? Oh, I certainly do. But, you know, some people are going to be like, she wrote that book when she was 16, obviously. It's not about the cauldron. Sure, Always that possibility. Always aggress. All right, let's get into it.

1:21:07 Let's get into it. Where does shadow singing come from? All right, have an aside here. OK, I real quick we got to talk about this guys, because this has gotten my goat on social media so many times at this point and Ronnie has heard this rant, so I apologize to Ronnie. There were, maybe still are, so many clips.

1:21:28 So many fucking clips. We got a comment about it today. About Bryce traveling to Prithian and that before she does it she says into the void or I don't fucking know take me to a Prince of hell and then jumps into the word gate. Not sorry Chelsea to the portal. Sorry, she never fucking says this. I want to be so clear, Never anywhere ever says this. This is how misinformation spreads, OK? I'm not saying Azrael is not a Prince of hell. That is not a fucking quote in Crescent City. She never says that, OK.

1:22:05 And if you caution that as a quote for reference, I'm willing to say I will. I will publicly shing you in the comments. Just give us the page, give us the page number. Give us the page number. Yeah, it's not a quote. OK. She never says that, however. Let's take a step back here. As you mentioned, we have other shadow singers in the mass first. So the Avalon bloodline, Avalon bloodline in Midgard specifically seems to have these shadow wielding abilities. So we have Rune, we have Cormac, and we have King Morvin of Avalon, who, side notes, sits on a throne made of stag antlers. We'll talk about that at a different time of what the actual fuck.

1:22:39 OK, yeah, Bryce notes when she meets Azrael that Azrael's shadows are different than runes and more like Cormac. So the quote we have for that Azrael, without Resan to translate, watched in silence. Bryce could have sworn shadows wreathed him like runes, yet Wilder the way Cormacs had been. If these shadows are more like Cormacs, then the reason for that is not because of the parasite, right?

1:23:01 So we know Runes shadows might be weaker because there is a parasite, but Cormac is drinking the same water, it's the same parasite, so it's not. That could mean a different source, or it could mean that this gift runs more true in Azrael, right? We've had had those situations before where gifts run more true in certain places and not true in other places. I'm sorry I need to preface this, but this is a fucking monster of an answer, OK, so just bear with me here, all right?

1:23:26 All of these men are of the Starborn line, so that's, that's something to consider here. Also interesting to note, runes, shadows specifically do not work when they are when he is trapped in the Gorzian shackles in the dungeons underneath the Esteri Palace. So as we talked about before, as real shadows do work at the Council of the High Lords.

1:23:45 So it might not be the same magic, might not be the same kind of binding magic there, but we have been given an example of where shadows do work outside binding magic and where shadows do not work about outside binding magic. So again, are green and as real shadows the same? I don't know. I don't know.

1:24:00 We see, we talked about Koche appearing cloaked in shadows. We absolutely 100% see a Prince of Hell get show up cloaked in shadows. Right? So Apollyon, our favorite Apollyon, comes to hunt in shadows when he's being held by the Esteri. The quotes for that are not ruined shadows. The Princeton seem to be able to access those when constrained by the Gorsian shackles. Only the Prince's mind speaking abilities remained. Also interesting, we'll talk about that later. This shadow was different, darker, older. Watching them, watching hunt across the room, the thing in the shadows moved just slightly, like it had crooked a finger at him.

1:24:35 Death. Death as real is called death, right? That was the thing in the shadows, and now it beckons. So now we have Koche, Azrael, and Apollyon being called Death. The shadow smiled at him, so Hunt smiled back. And then the shadow spoke. You would do well in hell too. Drugged with agony. Hunt didn't even quiver at the familiar male male voice, one he'd heard already in another dream, in another life.

1:24:55 Apollyon. He grunted. Not death at all. Then. He tried to not let disappointment sicken his gut. So we have a Polygon appearing cloaked in shadows. We have Azrael appearing cloaked in shadows. We have Koche appearing cloaked in shadows. After Azrael uses his shadows at the Council of the High Lords, Farah notes how cold he is. So the quote for that is.

1:25:13 But my attention returned to Azrael, who took my still offered hand and rose. The scars were rough against my fingers, but his skin was like ice, sheer ice. This is especially crazy because the person he was facing off against was Barron, who was using fire magic. So the quote after that is. Azrael dug his knee and all his weight into Aris's gut. He was silent, utterly silent as he ripped the air from Aris's body.

1:25:37 Baron's flames struck the Blue Shield over and over, but the fire scattered off and fizzled out on the water. Any that escaped were torn to shreds by shadows. So Baron is literally throwing fire at him and Azrael's hands are freezing cold. OK yes the Shields are working. However heat still gets through. Heat still gets through Shields.

1:25:58 This Hunt and Napoleon storyline in the dungeon is happening in House of Flame and Shadows at the same time that Azrael is cloaking himself in shadows in the tunnels underneath Prythian with Bryce. Right, so we are. I think we are meant to notice that these two beings are cloaking themselves in shadows. The quote for Azrael doing this is. Bryce scanned the path behind Nesta, only deep shadows lingered.

1:26:20 No sign of anyone's with wings waiting to snatch her. That's Azrael. Azrael is in the no shadows right? Even though she can't see him as real as in these shadows, right? So we have Azrael appearing to Bryce in a shadow, or hiding from Bryce in a shadow. We have a Polygon cloaking himself in a shadow to hunt in the same book in the same timeline. 99% sure we are supposed to draw parallels between these two things happening. Here's where it gets really fucking interesting in my opinion.

1:26:46 We are told explicitly in Throne of Glass that this is a Valk power. OK, so the quote for that is in Tower of Dawn, Irene is asking how the Valk could have captured her Fiza. This is at the end of Tower of Dawn in the Tor. Says May without anyone having noticed. Kayol responds with this. He says he didn't want to answer.

1:27:05 The Valk could summon shadows if they wished and hide within them, and those shadows could turn deadly in an instant. It is word for fucking word Azrael's powers. We have a Prince of hell doing this, and we are told that this is of the Alka power. OK, I need to take my sweater off. I'm hot. They're the. Same.

1:27:22 OK, I'm pretty sure they're the same. That's where this is going. Friendly reminder to our listeners. Court of Mist and Fury, published in 2016. Tower of Dawn, published in 2017. She wrote this line knowing exactly what the fuck she was doing. OK, this is this is not a mistake. We have other places where Valg are referred to as shadows specifically when Dorian is being possessed, he's talking about the demon inside or we're getting a third person view of the demon that's kind of inside him.

1:27:49 It was ancient and cruel and pace in the shadows leashing his mind. It was not of this world and had been brought here to fill him with his primordial cult. So we have cold and we have shadows. There was still a real world beyond the shadows. He would force to participate by the man participate in it by the man who had ordered the slaughter of that lovely woman.

1:28:05 So again shadows Valk. So we have shadows, Prince of Hell, Valk Koche, a Polygon as real. Okay, are you with me? So fun Yep. All right, I have now I'm getting into my crazy theory and I have three parts to. It can I add more that just like tie into that same thing before we go crazy. You already talked about EVOL, and you talked about Cormac.

1:28:27 Cormac, when he shows up for the very first time in the series, what do they think he's showing up as? Do you remember portal? Portal to Hell? Portal. Yeah. Portal to Hell is what they think his shadows are when they see them. Brune is like, that is a portal to hell. Oh, wait, no, it's Cormac. I think that's another like flashing siren, like hello, these shadows are from hell. All right, so crazy theory here, Part 1, and you mentioned this last week, but I think it deserves free visiting. Analius was made from Apollyon, and Azrael is his descendant. Let's talk about it more.

1:29:03 Analius, as we know, was the first Illyria. Apollyon. We've also talked about this before. Appears to Hunt in a dream with leathery wings, and Sarah calls our attention to it. 3 * / 4 pages. That is a red fucking flashing light. Pay attention to this quotes for that. He didn't want Bryce in a place like this, so dark and empty and yet awake.

1:29:25 Wings rustled nearby, but not the soft feather of his wings, but something leathery, dry. Next quote. Who's there? The darkness absorbed his voice, muffling it. The leathery wings whispered again, and Hunt twisted his head towards the sound. Moving his head was about the only thing he could manage.

1:29:41 Mid Guardians, do not feel comfortable uttering my name on your side of the Rif. Hunt stilled. There's only one being whose name was not uttered in Midgard. The Prince of the Pit, Apollyon. And then the last quote. The seething darkness. And those leathery wings vanished 3 * 3 times. Leathery wings.

1:29:56 OK. When Bryce sees Azrael, she calls his wings demons. Wings. Immediately. That is the first thing she says about him. Right? All right, I want to jump to our favorite Esteri, Vesperous. Vesperous says that the Illyrians are crafted from night and pain, right? You dare draw a weapon before me against those who crafted you, soldier, from night and pain?

1:30:20 Which is really fucking weird because that is not what we've seen the Esteri power be, right? Esteri power is light. It is bright. It is not good, but it is lightness and it is day and it is like stars, right? It is not night and pain. We are told that the first Illyrian was Analius, but that but he also fought to overthrow the Esteri, right, So the quote for that.

1:30:42 The Esteri's eyes flared with recognition at the long blade. Did Fionn send you then to slay me in my sleep? Or was it that traitor Analius? I see that you bear his dagger as his emissary or his assassin. OK, so we know that Analius helped overthrow him. He was able to hold a host of them, them being the Asteri here.

1:31:00 Let's keep that in mind then, being the Asteri, a host of them off at the pass of Analius by himself. If he was truly fighting Asteri, how the fuck did he did do that if he was like just an Illyrian soldier, right? So the quote we have for that long ago, so long ago, they don't even have a precise date for it.

1:31:16 A Great War was fought between the fae and ancient beings who oppressed them. That's the Asteri. One of its key battles was here in these mountains. Our forces were battered and outnumbered, and for some reason the enemy was desperate to reach the stone at the top of of Romeo. We were never taught the reason why, I think it's been forgotten, but a young Alerian warder named Analius held the line against the enemy soldiers for days. He found a natural archery of stone amongst the tangle of boulders and made that his bottleneck. He died in the end, but he held off the enemy long enough for our allies to reach us.

1:31:46 How would he be able to do that? How can anyone hold off Asteri for days? The only people we've been able to see fight against the Esteri effectively are Bryce and Princess of Hell, right? For the most part. You mentioned this theory last week, so I really like it. Did the Princess of hell corrupt the process somehow?

1:32:01 Did the Princess of hell get involved? Did they trick the Asteria into making Asteria soldiers with a little I think they use the words we use were with a little sprinkle, with a little sprinkle of themselves and in that way making soldiers that could actually end up overthrowing them. And then of course Azrael has analysis dagger, right? So if he has analysis dagger, is he analysis direct descendant and does therefore he have that little sprinkle on him too? So that's Part 1 of my theory.

1:32:28 Do we want to react to that? No, I mean I think I went the same place. Can I point out another really fun reference that was going to be maybe a precog, but I think I should just say it say it here so in I forget which Crescent City book it is. Honestly I think it was maybe House of Flame and Shadow. Adis tells Hunt that the black Halo tattoo on his head is called a black crown and basically says you call this a black Halo.

1:32:50 It is a black crown. It's actually existed forever. It's a way for the Astiri to control beings and help. They basically used to his callers, which we will talk more about, no doubt. And then basically Hunt uses this as kind of a chip with Rigelous. So the quote for that is Halo? Hunt asked as solidly as he could. Or Black Crown.

1:33:09 Rigelous blinked, the only sign of his surprise, but the term clearly landed with the Bright Hand. Been talking to shadows, have you? Rigelous hissed. Bremortis and all that. Hunt is called a shadow of death. So Rigelous is literally calling the Princess of Hell. Who Hunt learned this from shadows.

1:33:27 To me, that's an indisputable link. Like these shadows have to be linked to hell. Yeah. So yeah, I agree. All right, so that was crazy theory part. One Analius was made with a little sprinkle of hell. Maybe a big sprinkle of hell. We don't really big. Sprinkle. All right, Crazy theory Part 2. Truth Teller, you've pointed this out.

1:33:44 Truth teller and the star sword seem to be very different. They seem to have actually be kind of antithesis of each other, right? OK, All right, So truth teller. Truth Teller when it kind of shows its power, its power is shadows. The Star sword when it shows its power, its power is light. We have the osterry, we have the Princess of Hell. So I think the knife is actually imbued with maybe a polygons power.

1:34:07 I don't know if it's polygons specifically, but certainly Princess of Hell's power rather than a steri power, right. So we talked last episode about Azrael being star born. Bryce gives us another option, right? So the quote for that is, what have you done? Azrael rasp and Bryce twisted to find him on his feet, wings tucked in, Nesta leaning against him as if wounded, Ataraxia dangling from her grip. The male now held the star, sword at the ready, true seller gripped in his other hand.

1:34:33 He must have had some sort of Starborn blood in him then. A distant ancestor, maybe. Or maybe his possession of the knife somehow allowed him to bare the stars. Right, so she's saying maybe he's Starborn. Maybe because he has the knife, he can touch the Star Sword. We've explored the Starborn option.

1:34:50 I don't really want to get into it again. Let's talk about the knife. It's kind of more interesting. Truth Teller starts glowing only when Bryce shows up, right? He but only starts going when Bryce shows up. It never glows for as real. And we are told that the knife sings to Starborn people, right? The quote for that is.

1:35:06 Azrael was already poised over her, that deadly dagger drawn and gleaming with a strange black knight flight. He noted the darkness leaking from the blade and blinked. It was the most shock where I had seen him display. Put it away, you fool, Ameren said. It sings for her and by bringing it close, dot dot, dot.

1:35:21 So maybe he's not Starborn, right? Because he can't really activate whatever the power is and within truth Teller without Bryce. So maybe it's not that he's Starborn. Maybe it is. It is truth teller itself. We already kind of talked about this, but you brought this up. The truth teller pulses with darkness. Gwidian blazes with light.

1:35:38 So the quotes we have for that truth teller pulse with darkness in Azrael's hand, that's House of Flame and Shadow. Chapter 14. Even Truth Teller in Celine's hands seem to ripple a dark counter melody to how gwitty and flashed in theas hand. It's light, a heartbeat. Right? So they're opposites here.

1:35:54 The mountain shook again. Nesta and Azrael halted 10 feet away. Ataraxia A blazing light Truth teller enveloped by shadows. Which is how Azrael is, right? The Autumn King tells us that the Star Sword is made, but that Truth Teller can unmake things. You brought this up too, and all. Right, so the Star Sword is made, as you called it. He waved an idle hand, sparks at his fingertips. The knife can unmake things made and unmade matter and antimatter.

1:36:19 With the right influx of power, a command from the one destined to wield them, they can be merged, and they can create a place where no life, no light exists, a place that is nothing, nowhere. So what if the Star Sword was made by the Star, was made by the Asteri? The Truth Teller was made by the Val Princess of Hell.

1:36:36 Because in my mind at this point they are right. What if these what if Truth Teller was made by the Princess of Hell? We are told that Thea was there for their creation, but we are not told that Thea herself created both of them, just that she was there. And we only ever see the Star sword dipped into the cauldron, which we know has been corrupted by the Asteria power.

1:36:56 We don't see Truth Teller dipped into the cauldron right? So what if the Star Sword is imbued with the Asteria power, but the the dagger Truth Teller is imbued with the Valve power? We know when Truth Teller and Star Sword were made, there were two other figures there, right? We know that when Bryce uses the Star Sword and Truth Teller together, she opens up a void, right? That's what happens and that's how she defeats the Esteri. Apollyon's power is the void, so I think Apollyon imbued his power into truth teller and that this has actually always been about.

1:37:30 And I will get to my pre cod corner theory about this merging these two powers. This is Steri power, this light power, and this Valg slash Prince of hell darkness power right? Yep. I want to add one more thing here. Just fuel to the fire that the Valg and Princess of Hell are probably the same thing. The word void is used in association with Valg so many times in Tower of Dawn.

1:37:51 So the quotes we have for that when Irene is in the tour. Reading about how the first valve came to Aralaya. There were no doors within the archway, only swirling black. Nothing. Beams of it shot from the void. Some foul corruption of the sun falling upon the soldiers kneeling before it. That sounds a lot like Cormac.

1:38:09 Yeah. Irene describes the vowel magic as a void. So he'd roared her. This is when she's healing Kale. He'd roared around it. His bellowing had been almost as bad as the magic itself. It was a void. It was a new dark hell. I have like 5 more quotes about this. I think you guys get it. Thou are described as a void.

1:38:28 Apollyon's power is the void. I think I am totally on board that they are the same at this point. And that Truth Teller was infused with this power from the Princess of Hell. How did Azrael end up with this power again? I think we have two options. 1 is just that, it's Truth Teller. 1 is just that whoever has Truth Teller maybe has this power. I don't know that that works because we see other shadow wielders.

1:38:51 But I think if he's Analysis descendant and if Analysis was kind of infused with this power from Apollyon, then that's how potentially how he got it is what I'm thinking. I think it works to your comment on the star sword and the blade being antithesis and one being of hell and the other being a Steri. Like we've talked about how their homeworld sound the same, but they seem to be very different. Like that could be true here, right? Because this whole the whole line is when the blade and the sword are united.

1:39:20 So shall our people be like, maybe it's not about FAE. Maybe it's about. This is my pre got corner theory. This is exactly what I'm building to. OK, sorry. Yeah, it's not about FAE. And we want to shoot us through an M. All right, so yeah, so basically what I'm getting to pre cut corner theory here, when the knife and sword are reunited, so shall our people be is not about the fact it is about the Valg and the osterry and that they are essentially two sides of the same coin, right?

1:39:45 Like they are kind of of the same species, but for whatever reason there was a schism and 1 ended up with this lightness and 1 ended up with this darkness. There are so many overlaps. We've talked about this, there are so many overlaps in their powers, but yet they seem to be different. So they both have de Matti powers.

1:40:01 They both seem to bleed black, at least sometimes. They have similarities in their home worlds. They both feed on magic in one way or another. Other than the obvious differences, right, With the Valk being dark and the Hysteria being white, they have so many similarities. Yeah, and they seem to negate each other's power. So what if at one time it was one race and it was balanced between the light and the dark?

1:40:22 It was a balance. Everyone had a little bit of both. Something happened. There was some kind of schism. Some of them ended up with dark power, some of them ended up with light power, and this prophecy is actually about reuniting those powers again and making it a balanced race once again. And maybe not cosmically evil. Maybe neither of them are cosmically evil. That's what I'm thinking.

1:40:43 That's AI like it a lot. I especially like the part about the schism. I had not thought about that at all. So, so basically these were kind of like all powerful beings that were split. That's what I think. I mean, I there's a lot to get into there. I'm not sure. Like it's like it's pre GOG. It's pre GOG, yeah.

1:41:02 And I can make my last part of this theory also precog so we can come back. I can have an actual precog corner theory. But yeah, basically like there's so many overlaps in their power, there's so many similarities, but they themselves are clearly kind of different. So like. And they bleed the same color.

1:41:17 They bleed the same color. Most of them. Yeah, Yeah, most of them. And they like kind of cancel each other out, right? Yeah, Yeah. And they're the Valgar burned to death. Yeah. The Valgar burned and the Asteri consumed, pulled into the void. Yeah, exactly. Right. So the Valgar are killed by Starlight, which we've talked about being an Asteri power.

1:41:38 And the Asteri are killed by the void, which is a Valgar power. Yeah. I'll let you ponder. I'm. Just thinking. Yeah. I mean, yeah, IA 100% think like it's irreversible in my mind now that the blade and the sword are about the Astirion, the Valk. Yeah, I don't think they're from the same old. I don't think that they at all can't be anything but hell to me at this point.

1:42:01 Like they're they haven't been for a while. Like they're just not. Yeah, star born are Asteri. So, yeah, All right, we have another. Conclusion Azrael descendant of possibly probably a Polygon and that is where the shower Wheeling came from I. Think I have one like slight monkey wrench in this and I don't really think it needs to be a problem, but I want to.

1:42:23 It's worth calling out of. Allen's power is really strongly tied to Faya's power that Celine left in the prison, which seems to have been the Fay portion of her power. And when Bryce absorbed that power, her Starlight that arcs through Einer's prism arcs through as Starlight that then descended into shadow. And so she talks about this portion of the power that Thea that Celine left that was Faya's as darkness. So the quotes there are Bryce reached with her mind. This is her getting that power through layers of rock and earth.

1:42:59 And there it was, slumbering beneath her. Not first light, not as she knew it on Midgard, but raw Fey power from a time before the drop. The power ascended through toward her through the stone like a glimmering arrow fired into the dark. She then sends this light, this new light of hers, right after she absorbed this power through Einer's prism that he asked Rune to send light through way back earlier in the series in Crescent City.

1:43:23 She's so this is Bryce narrating. She says it took her A to process what she was seeing, A gradient beam of Starlight. Where the rainbow would have been full of color, this one began in shimmering white light and descended into shadow and anti rainbow as it were. Light falling Into Darkness, droplets of Starlight raining from the highest beam into the shadowy band at the bottom, devoured by the darkness below like the fading light of day of dusk. What did it mean?

1:43:48 She was pretty sure her light had been pure before, but now with Celine's power. She thinks at this time that it's Celine's power, but we later find out that it's stay as that Selena had left mixed in. There was darkness there too, hidden beneath at in a ball and ego is the Latin and in a ball and I am. Did it make a difference to her power to her to now have that layer of darkness?

1:44:09 So there is an element of Faye's power. Maybe it's the Faye part of her power that is shadowy. And I don't know that that needs to mean that Azrael isn't getting his shadows from hell. It could mean two things. One, it could mean that Celine has some element of hell and her too. Like we know that Thea's.

1:44:28 Well, I guess this is Thea's power. Yeah. But Thea was mated to Adis, so you never know what was going on with her and her power. Or two, and I maybe like this one a little bit better, is that maybe this is the variety of power that Rune and Reese have that is Fey Shadows specifically and not Hell Shadows so.

1:44:51 Yeah, that's intriguing. I don't know how Cormac fits in, but yes. I don't know how Cormac fits in either and he clearly is of all and and to be clear, I also don't really know why Cormacs and Ruin Shadows are different. No, I don't either. No idea. Like this is not our Crescent City series. So we'll get into that later. Despite the like heavy, heavy Crescent City references. I don't know.

1:45:10 I do think they're they're different, but I don't know. Well, and what's interesting is that Cormac and Winnow and Ruin can't. Yeah, right. So yeah, that implies a difference as well. Yeah, and Bryce can. And Bryce can after. After she gets that portion of that portion of, I guess it does have to be in Cormac actually. Then I don't know what that does actually. Well, Bryce?

1:45:32 Can we know? Well, this is going to be our next question, so let's talk about it, right? Yeah, true. All right. Sorry. Anything else here? I have so much shit that I feel like it's not as nicely tied up as yours. But yeah, the shadows are from Hell. They're Mel. They have. There's that little Celine.

1:45:48 Like what's going on there? Actually, it's there. I keep saying Celine because she thinks of Celine at the time. But yeah, of Allen and Hell, that's it. Okay, cool. And yes, I know we had already said a lot of that theory before. I just wanted to know. It's good. Restate it. More compelling evidence for compelling evidence and you never know when someone's tuning in for the first time. So true.

1:46:08 All right, Ronnie, where do as as other powers come from mainly? Well, I only talked about the winnowing. I don't know if you talked about anything else, but basically the winnowing. I talked about only the killing powers. That's super interesting. Oh OK great. Love it when this happens. I also love it when we're In Sync. But I love it when this happens.

1:46:25 I think that Asriel has the as power. Unfortunately we know that he has Vesperus power. It's just a question of how. So when Azrael and Nesta and Bryce encounter Vesperus in Prythian there there is a moment right where Vesperus says your power is, has always been, always will be mine. And the quote is a whip of Blue Magic shot through the world, a ribbon of cobalt piercing the Starlight and darkness. She could see every loop and coil as it wrapped around Vesperus neck.

1:46:56 This is Azrael power from his siphons. Time resumed speed up to its normal rate. Stop. Bryce shouted, but too late. That's where it's lifted a hand to her neck as Azrael's blue light dissolved into her skin. She let out a strangled laugh as blood leaked from her mouth. Still so ignorant. Your power is and will always be mine.

1:47:15 Blue Magic appeared at her fingertips, absorbed from the Illyrians attack. She wrapped it around one hand like a glove and grasped the star swords handle as if it provided the barrier she needed, allowing her to touch the blade. Vesperus yanked the star sword free and let it clatter to the stones coated with gore. So something about Vesperus harnessing Azrael's power allowed her to touch the Star sword. And so does Azrael have Faya's power somehow? I actually don't even know how he would have Faya's power. And to your point, like Bryce said, maybe he's star born, maybe he's not.

1:47:52 I think we're leaning towards maybe he's not, but maybe he is because Vesperus loses his power to allow her to come into contact with the Star Sword, and the only people who have been able to touch the Star Sword so far in the series have been Starborn people, Rune and Bryce. Well, we're not going to talk about the fact that it's also quitting, but you get the point.

1:48:11 And then Celine's power, or sorry, not Celine's power, God damn it. Faye's power that's left by Celine, Bryce compares to a laser power exactly like Azrael's. So that quote is Bryce shoved out a slice of her power, sharp and targeted as Celine had used to carve the stones as Azrael had focused his power on her star earlier. Like cut through stone and sizzled. A line literally drawn at Azrael's feet. Whatever had changed in her power with the addition of Celine's magic, fuck yeah this would be useful. So with her absorbing Thea's power that Celine left, her magic is then directly compared to both Celine's and Azrael's in the same sentence.

1:48:51 So again, maybe something else is going on with Celine that we're not aware of, but this could apply to. All. All Illyrian killing power, right? Maybe Thea was corrupted by hell somehow, or her link to Adis produced some other portion of her power. Oh maybe, maybe Thea was able to absorb power from Adis. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:49:14 The way that Hunt is able to absorb power from Bryce. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm thinking. Yeah. And then theas power, that portion of the power that she that Celine left in Prithian was theas power, but with the power that she absorbed from Adus. And that's the shadows in the darkness. Because if our theories are correct. This just occurred to me.

1:49:35 But like, Vespers should be able to touch the star short because we think that vest versus Thea's mother and Thea's power is what's like, we're told kind of what's imbued in the star sword, which should be vest versus power unless there's something else to it, right? Unless there's this piece of hell in it too, maybe? Maybe.

1:49:51 Or maybe it's something to do with yeah, maybe it's something to do with also being fae, yeah. Because so far, the only people who have been able to touch it are both. Everyone's fae. Everyone's fae. Everyone's fae. Yeah. Or half a, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Need to think about that. Yeah. I like that it being partially Adis's power as well, yeah. And for our listeners who if you're not clear what we're talking about, we are talking about the scene when Bryce and Hunt are having sex and they transfer. He ends up with some of her maid power after the sex because she transferred it into him.

1:50:23 And then he is able to wear the mask and save her from death. And he realizes that he feels like he's been made is the words that they use. So like, it is established in this universe that when you are having sex with your mate, you can transfer your power between each other. Yeah, at least when one of those people is starborn and the other is a Prince of Hell, which is exactly what we're fucking talking about here. Yeah, which is objectively the case for. So there's no disputing that in any theory. Sorry, I had one more thing on it. This would also explain the prison, right? His relationship with the prison could be linked to Celine. Like that whole prison is key to Celine's blood. So if he has any elements of

1:51:04 that bloodline, that power, then he too would have an ability to at least know the know the prison mates, which would be kind of crazy. We never see him try to open the prison doors, but we get a lot of clues that Reese and AS are related and we. Haven't even talked about the fact that Rune, who has similar shadows to Azrael, looks the exact fucking same as Reese. Looks like Reese.

1:51:26 I know. Well, so this was the thing. We haven't actually talked about this, but I think it's worth mentioning. The other parallel between AS and Rune is that their hands are burnt, right? They were both burned as children, and now they have these shadows. I don't know. I don't know how that ties in, but it feels feels like a pattern, right? We have two, I'm going to call them dark little boys who were burned by family members and then ended up with shadow wielding, right.

1:51:54 And like, how does that all tie together? So if this is genetic, do you need that fire? Because we know that fire and kill Princess of Hell, right? So it's like, you need that fire. Do you need that threat to be presented to you so that the shadows kind of come out and protect you? I don't know. And we don't really know much about Cormac's childhood, but it is implied to not be good.

1:52:16 Yeah, I mean his father. But I don't think, not case, I don't think Morvin has flame, right? So maybe maybe it doesn't work, I don't know. But just kind of spitballing on that one. That was not a theory I had prepped or anything. Yeah. I mean, I have a my precaucus about the scars, so we can talk about that in a bit.

1:52:34 All right, so. To be clear, I don't want to oversell it. I didn't really have an answer here necessarily. I just, I just wanted to say the winnowing and the shadow wielding I think are different because as we mentioned before, Cormac can teleport but Rune cannot. We also have those two twins in the 13 in Throne of Glass who have shadow wielding it seems, and there's no mention of them. Obviously they're valid descendants, right? That's very clear, but there is no mention of them being able to teleport at any point in time.

1:53:07 In Throne of Glass we have kind of two people who we know can teleport. 1 is Maeve, obviously Valk. Right, so the quote for that is I'm a world Walker may have said. I've traveled between universes. Do you think moving between rooms will be so hard? And then we have Mave's jaw tightened. Brannon Galathinius was aware of my gifts to move between places.

1:53:25 The words around his Kingdom prevented me from doing so. So that's clearly Valk. And then we have Fenris. Obviously when Fenris is describing his own power, he says no one knows where it came from, which is almost exactly how Maeve's power is described, right? No one knows its origin. So like, and he lacks the elemental fade magic. Again, this is not a throne of glasses. And I've not gone deep into this. This is just kind of surface level. But the quote is no one knows where it came from, what it is. Fenris said between shallow breasts, fingers, fingers curling and uncurling at his sides. But it lets me slip between folds in the world only short distances and only a few times before I'm dreamed. But it's useful on a killing

1:54:01 field. He panted through his clenched teeth as the outer edges of his gash began to reach for each other. Aside from that, I've got nothing special. Speed, strength, swift healing, more than the average Fay, but the same stock of gifts. I can shield myself and others, but can't summon an element, right. We know that Fenris, first of all, this sounds very similar to Cassian and Reece describing as Reel's winning wing power, right?

1:54:21 Like the same type of words are used. Fenris has a twin. Fenris himself is very like light. He has light hair or he has tan skin. He has blonde hair. But his twin is kind of his, like, dark counterpoint, right? So we are kind of getting that darkness within the Moonbeam floodline, I guess. Yeah.

1:54:38 So like Moonbeam is Fenris somehow. Also, Val, I don't know. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that, but like, and I think we haven't said this at all this episode, but I think we need to say this. We are proponents of dark like evil characters being in bloodlines, not evil, not characters being possessed by thou, right? So like obviously Azrael doesn't bleed black, he doesn't have black eyes.

1:55:00 We understand that, we get that. But we are saying that when this power is passed down in bloodlines, as we see with the witches and Throne of Glass, right, you don't have black blood. You don't have black guys like it. Dorian looks different. And Dorian, right? Yeah. So that's kind of what we're talking about here.

1:55:18 Totally agree. And I think one other interesting thing too on what you said with with Maeve and her world walking, that was learned. She learned how to do that. And I think it's, I can't remember the exact quote, but it's something about it being learned and she like had to know what to do or the right words to say or something.

1:55:36 And so I think the powers could definitely be related and maybe. I'm not at all convinced that knowing is not world walking at a shorter at a smaller scale. Like right, Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what you were hinting at earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're agreed 100. Percent. Yeah. Cool.

1:55:53 All right. I also don't think it's. It's not definite either. No, guys, we're just having fun here. We're just throwing out. We're having. Fun. We're having fun. It's like so much fun. All right. Anything else on this one? On this one. But should we talk about Bryce and Azrael? Just riff on it.

1:56:07 Sure, I don't think they're mates. Bryce has a 2. Hunt fans, so this is going to be tough. I devil's advocated because is that a word? I played devil's advocate because I knew that we both collectively do not want. I'll say that. I'll say I don't want Bryce to find out that her mate is not Hunt.

1:56:29 Like that would be so fucking sad. So sad. But I have 3 three things that make it potentially possible. Emphasis on possible not probable. 3 specific references. And this is to be clear about the concept and possibility of Bryce and Azrael being mates. As Abby said earlier, it has nothing to do with the fact that Bryce said take me to a Prince of hell and then showed up in Corinthian. Like that's not why.

1:56:58 First reference in Crescent City, we learned that angels don't really have a concept of mates. They're pretty casual about the whole thing and mates aren't really predestined to them. Hunt is not full Angel. So like I'm going to leave that there, but that is 11 reference that makes it like, OK, maybe maybe the concept of mates is not the same to hunt because he's a malachine Alekine, how do you say that word? I just say Angel.

1:57:23 Angel. The second reference is that also in Crescent City, Apollyon lightly references the idea that Bryce ending up in Prithian is romanticism. So that quote is Adis saying is it possible to Apollyon ignoring hunt entirely after everything dot dot dot question mark and Napoleon says don't fall into romanticism and Ada says the star might have guided her and hunt cuts in saying tell me where she is. And Ada says I have a suspicion but I can't tell you less Rigilus ring it from you.

1:57:53 So Apollyon basically saying don't get all romantic Ada's. Like when you think about where Bryce could have possibly been brought to by a horn in her back. Can I respond in real time or do you want me to wait? Yeah. OK. All right, So for the for the first, we. Both did this, so just respond. First one that you did.

1:58:11 We I, we have a First of all, Hunt is a Prince of hell. We know Prince of Hell clearly have. Well, he's a offspring of a Prince of Hell. They have mates, you know, since they are mates, right? Yeah #1 #2 we are given a clear fucking scene where Hunt is named by Rune as Bryce's mate because he loses his fucking mind when she thinks she's about to die, right?

1:58:33 And we are told in no unclear. I thought they weren't unclear. We are clearly told that that Hunt is like her true mate, the way that Fayer mates, right? So that is in I think that's in sky and breath when they're about to go into the depth charger, right? And he is like losing his fucking mind because his mate is being threatened.

1:58:53 OK, so like in my mind, this is open and shut, like, and obviously I love to read into things. I love to read things too deeply. But like, I think this is pretty clear. Bryce and Hunt are mates too. I agree with you. Part 2 Yeah, I had something. Remind me what you just said again? It was about is it possible after everything, don't follow romanticism.

1:59:12 This could be about their worlds, yeah. I think it's about Thea's star. He says that like the star brought her there. Thea's star that is under the prison brought her there because it she has a third of its power, right? Like I think that is what brought her to Prythian. Maybe it's the dagger but I think Edis is saying here Thea's star which is the 2nd 3rd of Bryces power which Bryce has a third of is under the prison in Prithian. That is why she ended up in Prithian. That is my thinking on that.

1:59:42 But he literally says the word star. Yep. And then the third reference is when Napoleon, very closely after that, says Hunt was born to do something very specific, to accomplish a task for which his father brought him into existence. And it has a really sad undertone when it's delivered and Ate Us in particular kind of sadly says that Hunt has not been asking the right questions. So is it possible?

2:00:05 That Hunt was created in Azrael's likeness to serve a purpose to Bryce, sure, but I actually think this is even more evidence that they might be mates, which is. Hunt was literally made for Bryce. He was made for her. Yeah, and they asked that question, if I remember that question is asked to the Princess of Hell and answered and they and Bryce, either Bryce or Hunt says is that why we're mates because Hunt was made for me and Ada Sir Polly on says no, we didn't think we even we didn't. See that we didn't see this coming? Yeah.

2:00:33 Right, so where the text leads me. Yeah, I personally think it would be absolutely fucking miserable if Hunt had an end that was not with Bryce, So, but I acknowledge. Again, similar to Reese controlling everybody, I acknowledge. The literary possibility of it, yeah, I acknowledged. Acknowledged not this isn't even an emotional thing for me.

2:00:56 This is like these questions are asked and answered as far as I'm concerned. Like you think the big argument for Bryce and Azrael being mates is that he lets her see his hands so many times. Like she really notices his hands and he like hides his hands from other people. He doesn't. Elaine sees his hands a lot.

2:01:14 She like like favorite even remarks that like Elaine is not scared about his hands at one point. I think the hands thing is kind of a Prince of Hell signifier because we know that Azrael's hands were burned, right? Which is like we know that the Princess of hell can be burned by dragon fire. We talked about that theory previously. So I think this is just kind of like the flames so much. My shadows don't like the flames so much. Right, but she does say she's seen Asriel around fire plenty of times after she says that.

2:01:41 But I but I do think this is like a but I think that's even more of a sign that it's like not just fire flames, dragon fire. Well, dragon fire or whatever the equivalent of that is in Midgard and Prithean. All right, cool. Great. We talked about it. I hope you're all happy. We talked about it. Are you happy for everybody here? I need you to know that Abby texted me sometime during like in the middle of the week, I don't even remember when, and was like, shoot, should we do that? And I looked at it and was like, I don't even know. You didn't even respond.

2:02:14 Did I not even respond? We must have talked about something directly afterwards and was like, you know what? We can talk about it to talk about it, but I don't think that it's anywhere near the most interesting thing to talk about related to Bryce or to no. This was not even on our list of questions, guys. Honestly, it was not.

2:02:31 It was not. We did not think it was that interesting, but we've talked about it and you know, go ahead and RIP us out apart in the comments because of what we said. That's what you guys do. We love. It all right, precog corner. So we already talked about this, but precog theory, precog corner theories. First of all, for those who haven't read the Imperium series is based on precognition as a signet. It's just the ability to see the future. It has like very limited supporting evidence, crazy wackadoodle theories that we just bring up just to put them out into the universe.

2:03:02 Abby, what is your Well, you already talked about your precog corner theory. Yeah, but I have another one that I actually think is way better for precog, so I think this worked out better. Cool. All right. My precog corner theory OK is that a Polygon equals kosh J, also possibly equals era one.

2:03:21 Let's talk about it. OK, you're ready. I definitely am with you on the era one piece, but I'm super curious about the Kosh J piece. All right, a Polygon and Kosh J, as we've discussed, both appear as shadows, right? So they appear as shadows, they come in as shadows. We know that Erawan is not the Valk King's true name.

2:03:43 We know that because we have a quote about Elena. I don't. I'm sorry, I didn't write what down this. I didn't write down what book this is from. I think it's an Empire of Storms when they're going back into the Witch mirror. She scanned the next panel. Oh no, sorry, this isn't Queen of Shadows when they're in the God of Truth Temple.

2:03:58 She scanned the next panel. They did not know his true name, so they called him Erawan the Dark King. Adian said. Then Elena and Gavin battled him. Your magic necklace save their asses. And Elena called him by his true name, distracting him enough for Gavin to slay him. Erawan is not his name. He has another name.

2:04:16 Apollyon and Erawan choose forms that are remarkably similar. So we talked about Apollyon appearing with the leather wings. He appears to Bryce differently. So Apollyon appearing to Bryce. Apollyon, Prince of the Pit, had chosen to appear in a golden haired, golden skin body. Handsome in the way that Anched statues were.

2:04:35 Handsome in the way that Pollux was handsome. When Aaron sheds his Harrington skin, he appears very similarly, so I don't have an exact quote for it, but he appears with golden hair, golden skin. We are given kind of the same same vibes. We are told that the gods in Throne of Glass who remember we think are the Asteri, and we believe that we know that the Princess of Hell stole the world. Walking abilities from the Asteri can exist in multiple places at once, and that time is fluid. So the quote for that is not just gods, but beings of a higher, different existence.

2:05:07 For whom time was fluid and bodies were things to be shifted and molded, who could exist in multiple places, spread themselves wide like Nets being thrown. They were as mighty and vast and eternal as a human was to a mayfly. That's Empire Storm chapter 65. Is Erawan existing in all three of these realms at the same time? Because we have ties to him, to Apollyon, we have ties to him, we have ties to him to Koche.

2:05:30 We have ties that find Apollyon and Koche. Remember, this is precog. So like, we don't have a lot to go off of here. We have shadows and we have blonde dudes being sketchy as fuck. And we now are told that there is a power that allows you to exist in multiple places at one time. So I know that Erawan is dead. I acknowledge that Erawan is dead, but if he has. Saying then that Apollyon is dead now, like Throne of Glasses, a late not a later world, but like the events of Throne of Glass post date, the events of Crescent City. Or are you saying they can die and they don't actually die? I'm.

2:06:06 Saying this quote says that the gods and throne of glass can exist in multiple places at once, right? Could exist in multiple places. I don't know how it works. Basically a parallel universes, I guess, which we've talked about a lot, especially with the word keeping things separate, right. So like there are different versions of this guy, I guess. And yes, in the Throne of Glass world he's definitely dead, but in Prithean and in Midgard I think he might still be alive pre cod corner.

2:06:31 It's crazy. It's it's out there. I have a Part 2 to this theory. If Koche is Valk and if he is a Prince of hell, and if the Princess of hell did fuck with something with the Osteria as we talked about, if they may be fucked with the Cauldron, we don't know right? But if they did something so that the Osteria would be overthrown with the Illyrians, if they have some kind of power in this world where they can pull strings, Did Koche create the fake mating bond between Lucian and Elaine or?

2:07:00 Yeah, between Lucian and Elaine? And it actually has nothing to do with either of them. It's about Vasa. And I'm going to tell you why. Vasa and Lucian are actually mates. This is the theory, right? Vasa and Lucian are actually mates. But Koshi doesn't want Lucian to come rescue Vasa, right? So he needs. A way he kind of does anyways.

2:07:23 Kind of does anyway, implying that they're mates, right? So he needs a way to take care of Lucian. Elaine is the first person to go into the cauldron, right? Like it's specifically Elaine and not Nesta. So the first opportunity that Coach J gets, if Coach J has some kind of connection to the cauldron, he says, I know what I'm going to do. I am going to get Lucian out of the equation here because he is the one that could fuck up my plans with FASA. He's the one that could fuck up my day, right? So whoever the first person is who goes into the cauldron, that is who I'm going to make Lucian's mate. It happens to be Elaine, but it doesn't actually have anything to do with Elaine or as real.

2:07:58 It is about Lucian and Vasa. Right, When Lucian learns about Kostring and silver flames, the quote we get is. Vasa nodded. It is all I have gleaned from my time enslaved to him. Lucian stared out the window as if he could see the lake across the sea and a continent, as if he were setting his target. He's already plotting.

2:08:16 He's already like, OK, I am going to fuck up Kostring, right? So again, precog kind of crazy kind of out there, but like none of this is actually about Elaine or Azrael, it's about Lucian and Bassa. And added bonus if Koche knew Elaine and Azrael were actually made. Just throwing this out there. By making Lucian Elaine's mate, he could be eliminating Lucian in the blood duel, right? Because we know that Azrael will kill Lucian in the blood duel. Reese even says that, right?

2:08:42 So he's like kind of taking care killing two birds, killing one bird, but like doubly taking care of this on Faye, who could come like fuck his shit up basically. Yeah, I think the second one is way less crazy than I don't think the second one is that crazy at all. Like Elaine can see nothing to do with crochet.

2:09:00 Yeah, you can see things about him, but any like reasoning around anything that he's doing is all quote missed in shadow. So I totally buy resolution Vasa like real mate story, especially since we really still don't know how he's got this workaround going for her and. It would be such a great game of misdirection for everyone to be like, pondering about Elena Nazreal. And she's like, you weren't paying attention to the important things Actually, you know, yeah, I think it'd be fun. And it would be nice so.

2:09:31 Yes, I'm sorry, I guess that was 2 precocute theories. Yeah, I think those are different theories, but I those are different things. Both of both of them work. I think on the on the Erawan one, I definitely think we have met Erawan in a different world because to your point, we're told that his name is not actually his name.

2:09:49 And we're told, I think in that same quote, sorry if you said this and I just like completely blasted through it in my brain. But I think we're also told in that quote that if we did know his name, it would be consequential to him on his. Yeah, so the quote is Elena called him by his true name, distracting him enough for Gavin to slay him.

2:10:07 Yeah, which we know. No, did not actually happen, but we can assume she called him by his true name. I guess the question is, and I think about this a lot because I'm so stuck on the Valg and the Princess of hell is Erawan is said to be a Valg king. Yeah right. Even in the story of May they talk about like 3 kings 3 valid kings and how it wasn't always that way.

2:10:28 So I think it still leaves the door open for like Princess to be something that happened in a moment in time and then the kings are separate. But it's pretty clearly said in Crescent City that hell is ruled by 7 Princess, certainly with no mention of kings. So I agree we need to figure out how kings play a role here. We also.

2:10:48 Marijuana is said to be the nicest of his brothers, for lack of a better word, and orcas and mantics are still unaccounted for. Or his brothers, Are they going to come into play? I don't know. Be fun. And maybe. But I I agree with you, I think we have to have met Arrow on somewhere else in some other way because of this true name thing.

2:11:09 Yep, I buy it. OK so I have I have two one I found during prep for this but it doesn't really have that much to do with Azrael and then 2 has to do with Azrael but I have literally nothing to go off of here. Azrael has these scars on his hands right? And we're told how he gets them. His brothers basically play with oil and fire and Illyrian healing gifts and he ends up with scars. We also have this direct comparison between Thea's power and Azrael's power.

2:11:40 Bryce's chest also has a scar on it. So you talked about Ruin having scars on his hands, Azrael having scars on his hands. What if Azrael's scars are not actually about fire? Or maybe they are about fire, but what happens is his power is reacting to that fire and creating these scars. Like there is starborn power that is reacting coming out of his body, and now there are scars because Bryce has the scar on her chest that's shaped like a star, and that is what her Starlight comes out of.

2:12:09 Could they be related? I don't know. I just think it's interesting. All three of them have scars. Yeah. Could be something, could be nothing. All right. The second one is is crazy. It's maybe you don't think it's that crazy. I think Einer has been sending information back to Eris the entire time. 100 per Let's talk about it. Einer has been recording everything that he's been studying in the old language of the Fay, the old language of the Fay that their people had used when they first come to Midgard through the Northern Rift.

2:12:41 He's also researching how light moves through the world. So the quote is, we're going to ask, what are you even doing with that thing? So studying how light moves through the world, how it can be shaped. Don't we have scientists over at CCU doing this shit? Their interests are not the same as mine.

2:12:55 His father surveyed him and then said with without a hint of warning, it's time to consider females appropriate for marriage. So he is researching multiple realms, how light moves, how it's shaped, and he's writing this in the only language that's common between Prythian and Midgard. Eris is playing all sorts of chess when everyone else is playing checkers.

2:13:16 Says he wants Nesta as his bride for something totally unrelated reasons to just her beauty. We have discussed how we think the Nesta has both Starborn and Deanna's powers, and they're both from the Autumn Court. Is Einar doing all this research, recording in the old language and somehow getting it to Eris in the Autumn Court? And Eris is playing a much bigger game than we think he's playing.

2:13:40 And that's why Baron and he have been like, kind of at odds with each other. Baron is trying the Highburn route. Highburn's clearly got something going on with him across multiple worlds. Eris may be trying another tack. Eris calls the prison a palace. He calls the prison a palace. How the fuck does he know that the prison was a palace? Right?

2:14:01 Like no one knows that he has to have an outside source of information. He has to. The question is, I guess he doesn't have to. But. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you could argue that there's some like recorded history because Reese knows a lot of things that he shouldn't know too. Like that. That definitely is true. Like Reese has an Ori and so designer. Reese has an Ori.

2:14:21 Reese seems to know that Aylan is falling through the sky as a comet. And Reece has a bargain with Eris, Does he? Yes. We don't know what it's for. So this is how I found it. Court of Frost and Starlight, but I'd made a bargain with Eris too. Perhaps a fool's bargain, but only time would tell. In that regard.

2:14:40 My annotation was he made a bargain. Yeah, and we don't know what it is. And we don't know what it is. Yeah, I told her I can't wait for Eris episode. Eris appears at the battle with Highburn from a RIP in the universe. Yep, much to say about Eris. Much to say about Eris. And he seems to, like, really know what he's looking at when Reese and Farrah offer him. Nesta's the dagger.

2:15:04 Dagger. Yeah. It's like, why do you know that, Eris? Why do you know that? All right, what are you reading? What am I reading? I'm reading Crescent City. Great, I'm reading Kingdom of Ash. I saw Chess, was it yesterday, 2 days ago. Chess the Musical, it was lovely. Would recommend to anybody who's contemplating it.

2:15:23 I feel like they're doing a really good job of advertising. Like a better job than any Broadway revival I have personally seen. Like I was targeted for it on Instagram. Yeah, I've been targeted for it as well. And I don't live in New York, so. Yeah, kind of crazy. It was really good. If you like chess and history and musically the Cold War and musicals, this is the musical for you. It's a very.

2:15:44 Interesting Venn diagram. It is, and it's got music written by two of the members of ABBA which make it, which still don't go together with all three of those things. I guess it goes with theater, but I would say like ABBA to Chess or to Cold War. Maybe the Cold War. Maybe like kind of? Sure. I guess if you're thinking like eras of time, yeah, yeah, but they're Swedish. I know.

2:16:10 What do they have to do with anything? Nothing. Nothing. Yeah. What are you reading? I'm reading Kingdom of Ash and I'm finding it really challenging because it's so brutal. It's not my least favorite Sarah J Maas book, but it is the one I want to read the least, if that makes sense. I'm kind of feeling that way about House of Sky and Breath, and I'm trying to figure out why I feel that way.

2:16:34 I think it's like what got me through those books was really not knowing what was going to happen and what was coming. And now I don't know. I'm I'm just like, not. The reread has been slow. Yeah, my yeah, once. I hate Kingdom of Ash. My reread got slower but I know there's just so much fucking information in there about the Valve that like I just, I'm like, I have.

2:16:52 To need to do this, yeah I I don't feel yeah I have a way easier time with both round of glass and a guitar. I end up accidentally rereading a guitar every single weekend. I just like start reading a certain passage for this stuff and then I'm just like I've read 4 chapters. Oops. Whoopsies all right well, we are on social media, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok as Dragons in the details pod. We are on YouTube as Dragons in the details pod Our links in those BIOS have links to everything. We have a discord server, we have a website, we've got a book recommendations form.

2:17:26 We've got a lot of stuff out there if you choose to join in on the fun. We also have a website, dragonsinthedetails.com, and you should like, comment, subscribe if you like us. And if you don't like us, you don't need to comment. I'm just kidding. Anyways, like, comment, subscribe. It helps us out a lot. We are a small podcast, but we are trying to grow. And if you would like to follow, join in on the fun on social media, on Discord.

2:17:52 We've got lots of fun there. And I'm going to leave an Easter egg for those on our Discord because I feel like it's kind of messing with people at this point. I am hypnotic mouse. So if you are on our Discord and you've seen me on there, me being hypnotic mouse, it's me. And yeah, I was chatting with LMNOP the other day.

2:18:11 Oh my. God LMNOP, you are going to get such a shout out at our next. About more, more amazed. OK, Anything else? Love you, bye. Love you. Bye. Hi, Rory. Hello. Oh. My God he looks so cute today. We got a haircut.