ACOTAR: Morrigan Deep Dive - Liar, Witch, Death Goddess in Disguise?

0:00 Moore lies constantly. Constantly. She's also Not only does Moore lie, Moore is lied to all the time. It is wild. Her power is truth and that she lies all the fucking time, OK? So I'm doing a little bit of a social experiment with my friend. So he I mentioned him, I actually think 2 episodes ago, he's my friend who refuses to let anyone talk about Game of Thrones around him because he's read as far as the books go. Which is an insane move.

0:53 He's an insane man. He is not on social media like at all. Like he has no social media presence. He is not an online person. But I was texting him the other day and I was like, Hey, I think you you should read these books. And it was it's throne of bus. I was like, I think you should read throne of bus because I'm like, really curious to see what what he thinks, what your impression is of throne of glass if you are not an online person at all, right, Like if you don't have any pre-existing, like knowledge of it. I didn't tell him it's part of the mass verse. I didn't tell him it's by the woman who wrote a Qatar. I was just like, just try this book out, see how you like it. You like Game of Thrones, see if

1:31 you like them. So I texted, I was texting a little bit. I'm like, what do you think? He's like? I don't know, it's kind of like a little YA for me right now. And I was like, I hear you, I hear you. It starts that way, doesn't stay that way, but so we'll see. So if he sticks with it, I will provide updates here, But I'm just like, I'm curious.

1:47 I'm like, you know, if you don't, if you live in that vacuum, kind of if you're not exposed to this world at all, what what do you actually think of these books? And as a man too, I know men read out of bus, but like, you know what how do? Feel about it. I kind of love the idea of a like of a non online male fantasy fan reading specifically Throne of Glass unprompted.

2:09 Yeah, please report back. I will. Well, cuz in my mind, it's the one that's obviously most similar to Game of Thrones, right? Like if you're talking like right, it's, it's clearly the most similar to Game of Thrones. So, and I know he loves Game of Thrones. So I was like, you might like this. For the record, I couldn't, I tried reading Game of Thrones. I like, couldn't I?

2:25 I found it and I, this was in college. It's been a while, but I on Game of Thrones St. written so simplistically, like yeah, but again, this was a while ago so like, don't come at me. But I remember thinking this is just not the writing. Just really didn't do it for me. Obviously I love the story, I love the TV show, but I found the writing to be like, pedestrian.

2:44 Yeah, I never got that much into it. I would. Love to read them, I would love to try again, but I simply won't because he's never going to finish this fucking series. It's not going to happen. So. Yeah. What's the point, you know? Yeah, it's tough. So I will report back. I will see how my friend feels about these books. Yeah, let us know.

3:04 I'm hoping he I told him that what I did tell him was that it's a story about personal growth and that Book 3 is where it gets like, actually good. Anyway, how are you? I'm fine. There is a important decision at the beginning of every podcasting session for us, and that is where is the dog going to be during this period of time? Is it going to be in the room with me or is it going to be outside with Connor?

3:29 And he is the kind of, he doesn't have a favorite, which is like actually really annoying sometimes because what he likes to do any time we're in separate rooms, he will lay in a spot where he can kind of see both of us. And so in situations like these when I have the store closed, he can't handle it. He's like, what do you mean?

3:47 So he'll just like pound the door in the middle of recording if he's not in here. And then when he gets in here, he'll like chill out. He's like a little bit better at calming down with me, especially in an enclosed space. But like just now he was like, it's been 3 hours and I haven't seen the other human in a little bit.

4:04 So could you please open the store? Is he dead? We need to check the major. He's dead, even. Though I can hear his heartbeat and lungs. His heartbeat through the stone. Is he dead? Yeah. You can hear his heartbeat through the wood. I guess. Technically, yeah. Imagine if 10 dogs hear your heartbeat.

4:20 I don't know. Oh yeah, definitely. Oh. Really. Yeah, wow, dogs hearing is good. I mean, definitely within this proximity. Like he knows that both of us are breathing. I guess that's how dogs like are. Trained to know if you're going to have a medical emergency, correct? So they can hear your heartbeat. Yeah, that makes sense.

4:36 Yeah. So we'll see Rory again in about an hour, is what I'm hearing. I'll let you guys know when he requests to be let back in. He's a very human like dog in that way. He goes. You just pause. Like, excuse me? I hate to be rude but. I kind of imagine him talking in a British accent sometimes. Maybe Irish?

5:00 You give him an Irish name, so. Sure, maybe Irish. That's like way less formal. That's true. I will say kind of before we get into it for this episode, like I don't know about you, but for this episode for me, I did not go in. Sometimes I go in with like, OK, I'm pretty sure this is what's happening here, right And like I will find evidence to support it.

5:20 Where I ended up is so far from where I thought I would end up with this. I don't know if you felt the same way about it, but I was like pretty, pretty surprised with where I got. I don't know about you, I. Was kind of surprised. I mean, I this is a little bit of a spoiler for our next question, but like I knew that I didn't have positive vibes coming from more.

5:40 I feel like I came in with that perspective from our very first intro, but where I am leaving is different than just like she's kind of a. Bitch for sure. Yeah. So I guess. Yeah. Yeah. OK, cool. All right with that. Hi, I'm Abby. And I'm Ronnie. And this is Dragons in the details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series or multiverses over the course of an undetermined number of episodes.

6:09 We are deep into our second season at this point which is focusing on a Court of Thorns and Roses series, also known as Akatar by Sarah J Mass Disclaimer These episodes contain spoilers for the entire A guitar series. If you guys are new, we do cover all 5A guitar books in our A guitar only section. We do have a Mass verse section at the end of each episode, but we will announce any Mass verse spoilers. You will not be spoiled for the Mass verse in our A guitar section.

6:39 And by the way, lightly talking about books is not spoiled and like mentioning that there is character growth in Throne a bus, not a spoiler. Other disclaimer of this podcast is rated R. Do not listen to it with your children. Each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are digging into Prithean's resident Blondie. The only blonde really kind of kind of weird. The only blonde I haven't heard.

7:02 Of I don't think any other. Well, maybe in the winter Court is what's yeah. Vivian. Vivian. Vivian. Vivian. She's definitely a blonde. Yeah. Can I tell you something? When I see Farrah and Nesta Fanar and they're blondes it rubs me the. Right way it. Gets my goat. OK, not right. They're not blonde. If you need a frame of reference. You can just hold this.

7:24 Hair in the sunlight. And that is it. Yeah, they're not blonde. Yeah, they're not blonde. So our resident. Blondie the Morrigan herself. More we come with receipts, we will have quotes up to bag up any theories so you can follow along if you're skeptical with that Ronnie announcements announcements.

7:42 So as always, our deep dive music, our little Jingle that we play before we get into deep dives is brought to you by Shwoodly SCHWOODLEY. That is a real person, a real artist. If you like our deep dive Jingle, maybe check them out on Spotify. We like them as a person in addition to liking them as a musician. We have a website that has recently gone live like in the last, well, by the time this is out in the last month, it is kind of a home for all of our stuff. It has a contact form, so if you don't feel like ripping out our e-mail and sending us an e-mail directly, you can send us a message there.

8:19 Feedback, fan theories, all of that good stuff. It's also got links to our episodes and all of our channels and like, comment, subscribe if you like our show. It helps us out a lot. Leave a rating, leave a review. It does a lot for small podcasts like us that are trying to grow and build our hopefully five star rating, hopefully five stars. I think we're still at 5 stars.

8:41 I don't know, it doesn't really matter. All right, corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. Do you have any? None for Akator only, not for this episode. I have one, I can't remember if we talked about this. So this is from Alex on Spotify. Now that we're mentioning, well, I, I try to respond to all the Spotify comments.

8:57 So Alex on Spotify wrote this is on our Archeron family deep dive. What if Vasa is somehow in the family line of the Archerons? Then Papa Archeron would have definitely had reasons and knowledge on how to bargain with Koche and it would make them all royalty. NASA is the oldest so she would be queen of the Archeron girls.

9:17 I know we talked about Mama Archeron potentially being a crochet captively captive. Yeah. But I don't think we talked about the right the like bloodline genetic component of it. I like this theory, but if this theory is right, then Tanlin was absolutely 100% fucking with their lives, right? Because a, as we've gone into great DSL about in this podcast, the only living relative that they know about is Ersten, who's not royalty, right? So that is Mama Archeron's cousin. Like who the.

9:49 Fuck is Ersten literally who is Ersten Ersten. Show yourself. Person be involved and as we mentioned, like no one helped them when they fell into poverty. And we are also told that like Papa Archeron's fortune is self-made, right? It's not family money. Like he was Prince of merchants. So if this theory is true then I think we have to assume some of the heavy glamouring most likely on Tamlins part of a lot of people because otherwise I just don't think they would have fallen into poverty. Unless it's like a line that has been forgotten or broken, which is always possible on fantasy, right? That's a classic troupe.

10:24 So maybe, I mean, we've talked about this before. We definitely think there's more to this story between Papa Archron and Basa and Coach J Like how the fuck did Papa Archron convince Coach J to let Vasa go? So I really love your idea Face on. Well, I just thinking like, regardless of whether this is true, I really want to know who Vasa's next in line is because the reason that they didn't kill her was because that person was so willful. So it would make sense if it were Nesta. If it's Nesta, I think that was also specifically called out somewhere.

10:54 I don't remember where but someone also commented that like the next in line is Nesta. So like if the next in line is Nesta. If the next if the next in line is Nesta Love, that makes total sense. God, she would be a nightmare. Well, you know. She'd be a night, but it was the mortal Queens talking about why they don't kill Vasa, right? She would be a nightmare to the mortal Queens. She would be a nightmare to the mortal Queens because she's now fake and has the power of death.

11:17 Well, even when she was human I think she would have been because she hates them, right? She like goes up against. Them. She hates them. She also definitely had she glamour didn't work on her. She had some stuff going on, yeah. Yeah, and that's interesting too, to think about if Coach J was always kind of pulling the strings right, and if he if he knew that. And that's interesting because we've talked about this ancient fae warrior whose bloodline has died out in the fae but is still present in some human lines.

11:43 If Vasa and the Archerons have the same bloodline. And it could be true for all of them. Yeah. Yeah, cool, cool, cool. Cool, we have an explanation for why Vasa is a firebird, not a swan, right? Definitely not. Definitely not. But she's a redhead. She's a redhead. We know that some humans have power in this world, right? Some humans have access to magic. We've talked about that.

12:05 So did she always have a firepower? And then when she was turned into a swan, does she become a firebird? I don't know. Does she look like Nesta, though? That's like kind of Mama Artron's whole shtick, right? That Mama Artron look like Nesta. I mean, I mean, I don't think so. I like Mama Archron. Nesta does.

12:21 I don't think there's any measure. I think Vasa has brown eyes. I don't really remember, but I do think there's a quote at one point about there being fire in Vasa's eyes. And obviously we get the quote about there being fire in Nesta's eyes. That being said, Vasa is a firebird, so it makes sense.

12:38 So we're checks out. Yeah, OK. Yeah. Intriguing theory, I like it. OK, our fun question for this week. This is such a mean question because like, I clearly have an agenda here. Abby, do you like more? No, not really. Not really. I don't know if it's her fault, she hasn't really been given a purpose. Yeah.

12:59 She hasn't really been given much to do. I know that she's a pretty good friend to Farah. I wouldn't say she's like the best friend to Farah. And then she's a huge fucking bitch to Nesta. Yeah. And like at one point I didn't really write things down for this, I just wanted this to be off the. Phone.

13:15 Neither did I. Aris calls her out, kind of rightfully, that she is way too. Not that she's too emotional, I wouldn't put that on her, but that she is too open about her emotions and it makes it really easy to like manipulate her. This is specifically when they're in the hewn city. And I'm like, yeah, Eris, like you have a point.

13:35 Like if you're going to be if more is more is like kind of like a diplomat, right? Like re sends her off to the human lands to like parlay with the courts there. I'm also currently watching the diplomat. So I'm like big on what what diplomat should be doing. Great show. Fucking love the diplomat.

13:52 That's a show. That's a shout. Yeah, a diplomat. I don't like the way she treats her female friends or her female enemies. She's a real Bros before hose girl and I don't really like that about her. Like like and the whole weirdness with like using Cassie and a block as reel. It's like, why aren't you just open about your life?

14:11 Why do you feel like you have to be kind of closed off about that? I don't know that anyone has given you a reason, at least within the inner circle. So it's like, I don't really understand her choices. I just don't really get her stick. I also want to shout out our listener Denise, who fucking hates more Denise, this episode is dedicated to you and you're.

14:31 Dedicated to you. Fucking bloodlust for more. OK? I hope you enjoy it Denise. Shout out to you this. Is for you, Denise. All right, do you like? More. No, I do not like more, but I like you like I think more. I just don't think we've heard more story. But but unlike Elaine and others in the story, I actually feel like a lot of hers has already happened.

14:55 We have her whole Miriam thing. She's so loyal to Miriam and Dracon, and there's clearly redeemable qualities about her that make her a very good friend. But I hate the way she treats her female friends. Like you said, I also hate the way she treats her male friends. I do not like the way she acts around Cassian and Azrael.

15:17 It is possessive. It is weird. It is. It is Rose before hose. But it's also like, it's like I am the center of the universe. Yeah. Energy. Main character syndrome where she is a side character in this series. Right. I actually don't know how I'm supposed to feel because I I feel like Sarah J Mass has written her in such a way where we're meant to start pitying her with her upbringing and the terrible things that have happened to her, which are terrible, and her family that is clearly estranged and how she kind of grapples with that. But like, there's no, to me, there's like nothing in her where I'm like, this makes you a really good person. Like she gravitates towards favorite immediately because she's Reese's mate.

16:04 And then everyone else, she's kind of just like, you're mine, you're mine, you're not mine. Fuck off. Right. She like go and she knows, yeah, she knows that Fair is Reese's mate from the get go. So she's like, OK, this girl is around, sticking around, right? Like I have motivation to be nice to her.

16:21 But then it's like she's so fucking terrible, the Nesta. I think she's so terrible, Nesta. Yeah, and I don't actually think that Nesta's the only. I really don't like the way that she treats Nesta, but I really really really don't like the way that she is treated Cassian and Azrael. I agree. I agree. It's it's not good to anyone.

16:38 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So no, I do not like more. I just don't understand assuming no nefarious motivations, which may not be where we end the episode, but right now assuming no nefarious and motivations, yes, I understand her sexual preferences are hers. She can tell who she wants when she wants, no complaints there.

16:57 But why is she keeping Athawood a secret from everyone? Like why isn't she like, hey, I just, I have this estate. I go there sometimes, right? Like they're not going to invite themselves over. Like why are you keeping all these fucking secrets? More like I don't understand. It's weird. Weird. Yeah, anyway, Anyway, shall we deep dive?

17:17 Let's deep dive. All right, Ronnie, I just had session urge this way. All right, Why? Just more. I literally wait for it every time. I'm like, is Abby going to pause and sway and maybe do a little Doo Doo Doo Doo? For our listeners, I'd do a little dance to phantom music every time we deep dive and the Ronnie and it's a doubt, but it's OK, all right Ronnie, Why is more?

17:45 Hate nest. I want everyone to know this is not my final answer but it's pretty close to it. The first bullet that I have under this question is because Moore is kind of a pick me bitch, and I think that's not unfair. But in all seriousness, all right, So there are several moments where Moore is truly awful to Nesta, specifically awful to Nesta more so than I've seen her be to to like even I would say heiress sometimes like she is just cold. And there's a few examples of this. Early on, really whenever Nesta came up in Aquar, Moore looked like she was basically trying her best not to tell Nesta to get lost.

18:24 Cassian is describing to Farah his and Nesta's conversations and basically says what you saw in the library is a pleasanter version of the conversations we always have. Moore's lips pressed into a thin line as if she were trying her best not to say anything. Azrael was trying his best to shoot a warning stare at more to remind her to indeed keep her mouth shut, as if they'd already discussed this many times.

18:45 So not only is she rude, like just literally holding herself back about Nesta before Nesta has even had time to like assimilate into the new entirely new body that she has received. Not saying Nesta's flawless, she has a lot to work on, but Moore was super super forgiving of Farah's attitude and like clearly does not have the same understanding for Nesta.

19:09 And she had talked to Azrael about it. Like Azrael was like shut up. And it's so weird because Elaine and Asriel are also clearly flirting and like, Moore's not a bitch, yeah. Yeah, and to that end, she is specifically bitchy whenever Nesta shows any warmth or affection towards Cassian. Right. So Nesta in Aquar asks where Cassian is by name, which is noteworthy because Nesta is going through it.

19:37 And Pharaoh is like, Oh my God, she just used Cassian's name. And Moore says he's busy. And Pharaoh said she had never heard Moore's voice so sharp and icy. And then again in AKA War, Ferah tells Nesta that Cassian is fine after the battle, and Nesta's shoulders kind of sag and relief. But Moore says coldly, shouldn't you be refilling that bucket? Like, oh.

19:58 My God, I forgot about that. Yeah, like so just mean and nasty and rude. Moore also has. Treating her like a fucking servant. Literally like human filth, like the fae who hate humans would treat humans basically is how she's treating Nesta and kind of independent of Nesta. But it's certainly like exacerbated and called to our attention more now that Nesta is in the picture. Moore has this really weird vibe where she kind of acts like she owns them, them being Cassian and Asriel. And this is super apparent when they're in the Summer court and Helian approaches them basically asking for the three of them more, Cassian Nazreel to join him in bed. And she's kind of just like lounging all over them and says, I don't like to share.

20:47 I don't like to share. Like that is possession. She's singing, I'm not sharing them with you. They're not yours more. But they really kind of have been up until this point. And honestly, Cassian goes along with it. Even this really bothers me. Even after Nesta was in the picture, he was massaging her feet. In that particular scene, he snatches his hand away from Nesta when Moore enters a room.

21:12 But over time. Do you remember that part? I'll read the quote Cassian was talking with. Nesta brushed a thumb down the back of her hand, and at the sound of Moore's voice, Cassian snatched his hand back and pivoted toward Moore with a lazy smile. Cassian eventually moves away from that behavior and is more kind of resistant to Moore's attitude.

21:32 But even early on, even like Cassian knows at this point, the Nesta is his mate and he is still acting this way around more massaging her feet, correcting his behave, correcting quote his behavior with Nesto and Moore enters a room. There's a couple explanations, I guess for Moore's behavior that we have been presented with.

21:50 One could totally just be that she really deeply loves and cares for Cassie and we hear this from her directly, that she thinks that he's worth more than any other male that she's ever met, he and Azrael. And they were also hypothesizes that she needs him as a buffer between her and Azrael. I personally think these are both bullshit.

22:10 I don't think that they work. I think they're way too weak. And so where I index, and it's admittedly like a little bit crazy this this influence that she seems to have over Cassie and that he grows out of over time. Cassie was seemingly able to pull away from her influence as Nesta became more of a factor in his life.

22:30 We have also seen him resist alarming power like the crown. Could More be angry with Nesta for disrupting some influence of hers over Cassian, which Nesta, by the way, could be able to do because really no type of magical control works on her? Could there? Could More have had some influence over Cassian? Could Cassian be resisting it?

22:51 Now that you know, Nesta has emerged and is his mate and this is really fucked up things for More and so More is taking it out on Nesta, We're going. Real, real evil. More right from the gate. Potentially, yeah. I didn't have any notes like that, but I love it. I had, yeah, I said that this is more out of love for Cassian, I think than hate for Nesta. But everything you just said kind of didn't can actually kind of change my mind about that.

23:18 I don't know. Like she is such a bitch to Nesta from the get go. She does warm up to Nesta by the end of Silver Flames, right? Like she is the one who teaches Nesta the waltz and like tells her what a witch is, right. So we have both of them talking about witches, which is influence, which is interesting what you were just talking about with the influence, and they are able to be like civil to each other, Moore says. If we're taking a slightly more apologetic view of it, Moore said specifically, Cassian is the one who is responsible for getting her out of the Court of Nightmares. Yeah, so she says Cassian helped Reese Get Me Out before either had the real ring to do so For Reese, getting caught would have been a mild punishment, perhaps

23:56 a bit of social, social shunning. But Cassian, he missed everything to make sure I stayed out of that court. And he laughs about it. He believes he's a low born bastard not worthy of his rancor life here. He has no idea that he's worth more than any other male I met in that court and outside of it him. And that's real.

24:11 That is. So that is the quote that you just referenced. So I think I think what you're saying could be totally true. But if we are just looking at from a character perspective, like it could be that Moore feels like she owes Cassian totally so much, right? And Nesta, she's super protective. NASA is not nice to Cassian at the beginning.

24:29 She's fucking terrible to him, right? So like the less magic, more character driven view of it is that she is trying to protect Cassie, that she thinks she sees the writing on the wall with Nesta and she's like, no, I don't want him getting hurt, Kobe either, but I like you. I don't know. I think it's totally fair.

24:47 I mean, Cassian was, when you think about what was going on at that time, Nesta was basically a recluse and Cassian was just going and visiting her again and again and just getting yelled at basically day and. Yeah, and so the quotes, the like real bad quotes we have that more says about Nesta are both from Silver Flame. So we'd be better off throwing Nesta into the Court of Nightmares.

25:09 She'd thrive there. Fucking crazy thing to say, right? Like Court of Nightmares is filled with terrible monsters, and obviously Moore knows that better than anyone. And then the next one. Dark fire simmered in Morgan's eyes. I knew plenty of people. Like he wants. Her hand drifted to her abdomen. You never deserve the benefit of the doubt. Like good people that good people like him, him being Cassian, give you.

25:30 So her hand drifted to her abdomen. She's literally thinking about when her family nailed steaks into her stomach. Right. So like, all of this has happened after Solstice and Frost and Starlight when NASA was so horrible to Cassian and Cassian threw her present in the Sidra. I don't remember if Cassian ever explicitly tells more about that or says he told more about that. So if she knows about that, there is a question of how. But he could have just told her.

25:55 Doesn't have to be a huge conspiracy, right? Yeah. But yeah, it could be the IT could be the influence thing too. Yeah, no, I think you're you're having me walk it back. I think it could just be protectiveness. And she really does think he's the best person ever. I mean she literally chose him to take her virginity.

26:14 Yeah, but it's too much. It's too. Much awful. I still don't like it. She's still like, too too horrible to nest. When you think about it in the sense of the parallels with Reese and Farah, Farah wasn't anywhere near as terrible as Nesta but she definitely did not like Reese. And Moore comes in and was like, that went well haha.

26:35 And then just like tries to become best friends with Farah. Yeah, it's weird. She did know that Pharaoh was Reese's mate, right? Because Reese comes back from under the mountain and sells more. She's my mate. But yeah, I think it's not the same treatment. She's not treating these these sisters the same way. Yeah, and it is interesting because you you make a good point.

26:57 I guess she didn't explicitly have to know the Nesta was Cassians, even though it feels pretty clear that like Reese and Azrael at least know. Well, reset, he didn't know. There is a passage in Frost and Starlight where there I can find it if we want to but like basically Reese and Azrael are independently meeting and talking about the Illyrian rebels and Reese narrates like I wasn't about to talk about Nesta neither was Azrael. Like both of us were trying to avoid that conversation with him.

27:26 Like if that's not I. Think everyone certainly suspects at the very least. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so maybe it's just she's a bitch, maybe she's a a witch, I guess. I don't know. Maybe she's a bitch. Maybe she's a witch. Maybe. That should be the name of a podcast. Maybe it's coming from a good place, yeah. It's fair, but we don't love it.

27:53 We don't love. It we don't love it anyways. All right, Abby, what is Morse power? All right, so we are given kind of 2 powers for more as far as I could tell so basically she has this fighting power that we never really see and then she has a truth power so the fighting power. What we know about her fighting power, first of all, we we're told that she outranks both Cassian and Azriel in terms of fighting abilities, right?

28:19 So if Moore's rank was higher than the two of than that of the two warriors at this table, then there had to be some other reason beyond that irreverent charm, some power to allow her to get into the fight with Ameren that Reese had mentioned and walk away from it. Sorry, that's my first bullet point. She got in a fight with Ameren and she walked away from it, right?

28:35 Yeah, it's like what they like decimated though vacation house. Yeah. Wait, did they decimate the the? I think he said like he said, like a cabin or a cottage. I don't have the exact quote, I didn't take it down, but they definitely destroyed some home that was not the townhouse. They destroyed something, They destroyed a structure, and they both walked away from it. So like, what the fuck is that about? And then, of course, we have our famous quote, Morris, who I'll call him when the armies fall.

28:58 And Cassian and Azrael are both dead, right? So when the Illyrian warriors are dead, when his armies fall, he's bringing in more. And we haven't really seen evidence of this, right? Like, yeah, she's good and in battle, but like, she is not enough to replace all of his armies. And Cassian and Azrael so far that we've seen. So like, that's kind of a question. She seems to be able to sense enemies around her. So this was in Adriata.

29:23 It might, this might be her truth power, but I'm not sure. But this struck me as really fucking weird. So when her and Farrah are taking on highborn soldiers in Adriata, there is a moment where they go into, I think it's the palace. And Moore says this way, jerking her chin towards the descending stairs.

29:40 There's 3 levels down and climbing 50 of them. How does she know that? How does she know there's fifty of them? How does she know they're 3 levels down? Like we haven't seen anyone else do this as far as I can tell. Like she is literally like sensing them through the building. Like she hasn't scouted it beforehand.

29:55 Like how does what does she know this? We maybe see Reese do a similar thing when he visits Tamlin in frost and Starlight. So the quote for that is I unspool the threat of power through the house, sensing half dreading what I might find. But they're in the kitchens a level below alive. And I guess we have seen Farrah kind of do this in the beginning of Aqua war when she's in the house with when she's back at the Supreme Court with recent Tamlin. So it might be that.

30:21 But that line just struck me as like, very fucking weird because like, we've never really seen it used this way before. We have quotes about battles calling to her, right? So the quotes we have, these are all from Akawar Moore was hopping from 1 foot to another, glancing at me every now and then. The bloodshed, the brutality.

30:41 It's saying to some part of her being up here with me, it was not where she wished to be. So it's calling to her like, also like, keep that in mind. And then we only get this quote once. But I think it's really fucking interesting. She has dark fire simmering in her eyes at one point. So the quote is dark fire simmered in Morgan's eyes. I just read this, but I knew plenty of people like you once her hand drifted to her abdomen, blah blah blah. Why does she have fire in her eyes? The only other people we've really seen with fire in their eyes.

31:07 I have the list. Nesta has silver fire in her eyes. She was made by the Cauldron, possibly a death God. Ameren has Gray fire in her eyes. She is an otherworldly being. Lucian has fire in his eyes. His power is fire. Vasa. I guess Vasa does have fire in her eyes. She is a firebird who is cursed by a death God. What is Moore's linked to this, These people? If this is meant to be taken literally, if there's literally dark fire simmering in Moore's eyes, why she doesn't have fire? We've never seen her wield fire.

31:34 We've never seen anything like that with her. So why does she have dark fire simmering in her eyes? I don't know. That's what I had for fighting power. Do you have anything else before I get into the truth Power? No, nothing else about fighting. Let's get into truth. I have a couple other notes.

31:47 So the quote we have so fucking confusing I the quote we have about Moore's truth power. I am the Morrigan. You know me what I am. You know that my gift is truth. So you will hear my words now and know them as truth as your ancestors watched it. So she has she says her power is truth. You can trust me.

32:06 My power is truth. We see her with Elaine be able to kind of discern whether what Elaine is saying is true or false, right. So when Elaine figures out that she or when Azrael figures out that Elaine is a seer, Elaine turns to Moore and says, Is that what this is? And the words, the tone, they were so normal sounding that my chest tightened. Moore's gaze darted across my sister's face, as if weighing the words, the question, the truth, or lie within more or less blinked, mouth parting, like that magic of hers had at last solved some puzzle.

32:36 Slowly, clearly, she nodded. So she can like, literally kind of discern these truths of the universe, right? Like, is, is that what's happening to Elaine? She like can kind of see inside her hour. Her family has had the Veritas orb for millennia. I don't know that we really need to get into that, but the quote for that it was right for the truth magic she claimed to possess that many in her bloodline also bore and the Veritas was one of the most their most valued and guarded Talisman. Then obviously we have the Veritas showing Valeris to the human Queens.

33:05 Well, I think that talking about the instance with the orb is worth calling out because it's a pretty different event from what we see with Elaine, right? She speaks in this like, young and old voice. Like I would say it's the only time we've seen her, like speak truth that sounds otherworldly. Like not not just like more. So the quote for that is, this is the Veritas, Moore said in a voice that was young and old, right? The gift of my first ancestor to our bloodline. Only a few times in the history of Prythian have we used it, have we unleashed his truth upon the world. So yeah, the voice, young and old. And then who is that first ancestor? Like?

33:43 Who is that? We don't. Know and she says I am the Morrigan her eyes not holy of this earth and like Pharaoh's like hair on her arms rise like she gets goosebumps she's like which. Sounds a lot like Nesta when she puts on the mask. Right. Right. All right. Yeah, My next quote was just that quote. I want to add a couple of things here. OK, me too.

34:03 More lies. Constantly. Constantly. She's also lied. Only does more lie. More is lied to all the time. OK, so she told Jurian that Miriam and Dracon were dead. This is a lie. Quotes for that. She's dead, Moore said flatly. The lie that had been told for 500 years. She and Dracon drowned in the erythian Sea, The impassive face of the Princess of Nightmares.

34:29 Liar. Marian Crude, you were always such a liar. Or again, it is wild that her power is truth and that she lies all the fucking time. Okay, so when she's telling the mortal Queens, you know me, you know that I'm speaking the truth. I don't know what the fuck that means. Like I don't know what that means.

34:52 Yep. She does not know that Jurian is actually on their side, right? So in attack a war, he says we fought back-to-back during some battles, and yet you believe me at first sight, believe that I'd ever let them turn me. She says you went mad with Cliffia. It was madness. It destroyed you. If her power is truth, if she knows that Elaine is a seer, why doesn't she know that Jurian is actually on their side?

35:18 She does know that Feyre is lying, like immediately. So this is in Frost and Starlight or no, sorry, this is in Mist and Fury. So I hid the smile that this is Feyre talking. I hid the smile that tugged on my lips. It's nice to meet you a liar. Moore said, pouring herself some tea and loading her plate.

35:35 You want nothing to do with us, do you? So it's like. But she doesn't know that Feyre is about to peace out from the battle the second the Moore starts fighting. That was a blow up between the two of them. Moore was like, you lied to me. If I were Feyre, I'd be like, bitch, you should have known.

35:51 I thought your whole life, too. Yeah. So like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if this is a power she chooses to use sometimes. I don't know if this these were all just like fucking oopsies, but this power is confounding in my opinion. It's confounding. I have the note on Elaine and her kind of discerning that Elaine is in fact a seer, but I do find it suspicious that the only time that we've seen her wield a truth is with the Veritas orb. Like I'm not saying that I don't think more has this power, I just like it's weird that we we have only seen it used twice and only once did actual true words come out of her mouth. You mean when she's well, I What

36:36 do you mean Only once did true words come out of. Her only once did she like seem like she was speaking, invoking some power to say something that was true, which. Was with the Veritas. Yeah, yes. And the Veritas sword, yeah. Yeah. So is that all bullshit? Is that just something that she can do and she puts on for show? Like, I don't know.

36:53 I don't. Know. Yeah, I don't know. Which would mean she can like, call an otherworldly power to her eyes and speak with a voice that is young and old whenever she chooses. Is basically what we're saying, since this makes no fucking sense right? And seems to be for show. Like what is that? Where does that come from?

37:10 Right, I'm sure. A bit duplicitous I think. I have a couple other call outs about Moores powers that we're probably negligible enough that you didn't include them, but she can winnow. She can win, Yep. She can heal, so she heals Azrael after he gets completely torn up by Highburn. She's also able to literally in my notes I wrote just do shit like she like darkens and lengthens Pharah's eyelashes. She I think can glamour she like at one point, like slides her power between Pharah and harm at certain times. So that could all just be a defensiveness and you know, say power.

37:47 But she it's almost high Lord like in nature and that she's just kind of like I'm just doing stuff like I can shield, I can do whatever. And that type of power we haven't really seen as we admittedly have not met that many people in this series that do not either have high Lords power or are high Lords themselves.

38:05 But it's like more power than I remembered. More having I suppose. And then this is like 1 super out there theory, but I figured I'd put it out there because I actually do have a receipt for it. I think she might also be a secret de Madi. OK, tell me more. I love it. In AKA War, Feyra is thinking to herself how she's never seen anything like Cassian in battle, and she describes it in her head as a dance. And she says I must have said it aloud because Moore replied for him.

38:33 That's what battle is, a Symphony. Her eyes did not stray from Cassian's death dance. Anytime you hear I must have said it aloud. Yeah, I remember. Secret Damati is going off and she's related to Reese, so it's not that crazy. I think I remember I, I definitely remember that quote. I definitely had that thought. But I was like, I can't bring another secret Damati theory to this.

38:53 Podcast. I can't do it. It's gonna matter. Yeah. I mean, I think she might be also related to in the Damati vein, related to our last question. She is the only one able to get as to do certain things. So like when he's injured in battle and he wants to fight, like, Moore is the one who can give in some not to, Like, any time that Azrael is like, really digging his heels in on something, Moore is sent to go convince him.

39:19 And so in a similar vein as like, is she exercising some form of control? Like does she have the power to? I don't know. So we are led to believe it's because Azrael like loves more, but it might actually be because she is controlling him with her Damati mind. And for some reason in my brain I just like think that Azrael would not be influenced by Damati powers, but what do I know? Nothing.

39:40 You know, I had that same thought, but there's no there's. There's nothing, literally no reason to believe that that is the case. I mean I would imagine the recent trained him in mental. Shields, of course. Yeah, yeah. So I'm I'm not saying that I necessarily think that Maeve is exercising Damati influence over Cassian or fuck I'm. Not.

40:05 Necessarily saying that I think more is exercising. We have to calm down so that I can say that. Again, I'm not necessarily saying that I think that Moore is exercising Damati influence over her friends necessarily. I suppose I did say that in the last question, but that was a loose theory. I don't know, but I do think in that instance she's reading Fairer's mind.

40:22 I agree. I agree. She definitely is. Now I need to look for other instances of that or just think that through. I mean, like it's, it is kind of the truth telling aspect, right? Like if if she can like read Elaine's power. And we know that Reese doesn't like to do that to the people in his inner circle, right? So like maybe that is part of it. I don't know.

40:42 This is kind of a speculation episode, I think, and that's OK. Yeah, I suppose. At least this part. Truth could be allowing her to read this stuff and maybe it's not Dame Adi power, or maybe this Truth power actually just is a form of Dame Adi power. I don't know. She's reading the world. I don't.

41:01 Know I don't. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think that quote is a red flag. Red flag. All right, Ronnie, anything else on this one? Why is more powerful enough to be Reese's third? Not a very long answer to this one. You've already called out the quote about Moore being Reese's third, right? He says Moore is my third.

41:23 Only a fool would think my Illyrian warriors were the apex predators in our circle. Irreverent cheer from war was third to the High Lord of the Night Court. And of course, the infamous, well, it's not infamous, it's pretty famous quote more is who Reese calls when Cassian and Azrael are dead. We've got some indications of her having, you know, big powers.

41:41 But to your point, like we haven't really seen much bit yet, Moore's power shook a mountain when it arrived. So when she first bled, and here's the quote, I was born stronger than anyone in my family, even the males, and I couldn't hide it because they could smell it the same way you can smell a high Lord's air before he comes to power.

42:00 The power leaves in Mark and Echo. When I was 12, before I bled, I prayed it meant no male would take me as a wife, that I would escape what my elder cousins had endured, loveless, sometimes brutal marriages. I took my blast or whatever. That part doesn't matter. But then I began feeding a few days after I turned 17, and the moment my first blood came, my power awoke in full force.

42:22 And even that God's damn mountain trembled around us. We have only heard of two people's power in this series shaking a mountain, and it's recent Nesta. And they both have big fucking power. Like big, big power. So whatever Moore's power is, we have definitely not seen it. We just definitely not seen it and I hope we're going to. But I don't think it's just this battle power. I don't think it's just this truth power. Or maybe it's this truth power, but but maybe it's not actually just about detecting and telling truth. Like she has something that shook a mountain, like Reese shakes a mountain.

42:58 He's a high Lord. Nesta actually does a lot more than shakes a mountain. Like she kind of shakes the entire island. She's killing Bri Allen, but she has literally the power of the Cauldron, which is arguably the biggest thing in this universe. So more is really fucking powerful. Yeah, that's I agree.

43:17 I agree. So I had the same thing basically my only not here, we've talked about this before, is we know that Moore's family, what did once rule the night court, right? So like what happens when they're when that power is transferred, right? Does the magic still choose someone in that original bloodline, right? Like is it possible that Moore has the power of a high Lord because it's it's even called into comparison here, right? Like it's the same way you smell a high Lord's air before he comes to power.

43:46 So does she somehow have that power of high Lord? I love the Nesta comp and I'm going to talk about it more in the next question. But there are so many more death God strings shuffle. There are so many and Nesta is a death God. This is death God so. All right, cool. All right, Abby, what really happened with Moore and Eris? Okay, I have my first bullet point I'm gonna read for you word to word.

44:13 I have thoughts on a theory here, but not necessarily a full theory, so maybe we can workshop it together. Okay, and a lot of this is going to be context. You just mentioned that that Moore, it's called her mare Moore is seen as a prize potential mate mother essentially because of her power. The quote for that is instead of being horrified, every single ruling family in the huge in the hewn city saw me as a prize mayor, blah blah blah. My family was beside themselves with Glee. They could have their pick of an alliance with any other ruling family.

44:42 My pleas for choice in the matter went unheard. And then we know that her father decides that he wants to ally himself with the Autumn Court, which kind of a theme for cure here. So I was there in the Hewn City the day her father declared she was to be sold in marriage to Eris, eldest son of the High Lord of Autumn Court, Lucian's brother. Eris had a reputation for cruelty, and Moore begged me to not let it happen.

45:03 For all her power, all her wildness, she had no voice, no rights with these people. And my father didn't particularly care if his cousins use their offspring as breeding stuff. So Moore's family sold her to Eris's, sold her to Baron, really, who wanted her to marry Eris is the short version of this story.

45:18 We first, we get this story through a couple different times. So we first get this story from Reese. The quote for that is I brought more to the Illyrian camp for a few days and she saw Cassian and decided she'd do the one thing that would ruin her value to these people. And I didn't know until after.

45:33 And it was a mess with Cassian, with her, with our families. And it's another long story, but the short of it is that Eris refused to marry her, said she'd been sullied by a bastard born a lesser fairy. And he's no he'd now sooner fuck a so her family. They, I'd never seen him at such a loss for words. Reese cleared his throat.

45:50 When they were done, they dumped her at the Autumn Court border with a note nailed to her body that she was Eris's problem. Nailed, nailed to her, reset with soft wrath. Eris left her for dead in the middle of the woods. Azrael found her a day later. It was all I could do to keep him from going to either court and slaughtering them all immediately. We know something's up with this story, right? Because Eris proposes to Nesta, who has also been fucking Cassia, right?

46:14 So like this kind of doesn't hold up. Like whatever Heiress's reason was for breaking the engagement, I don't think it's because More fucked Cassian, or at least the current man that Heiress is wouldn't have it be because More fucked Cassian. Maybe at the time it was, but we were literally given a direct parallel with More and Nesta.

46:32 Eris specifically says he knows that Nesta and Cassian are fucking right. He was like it would be great to take her from Cassian. So like that kind of doesn't add up. My second question for this, and we can get it into it a bit later, is like we just talked about how powerful Moore is supposed to be, right?

46:49 She like the mountain trembled. How did she let this happen to her, right? Like, how did she, how was she put in the position where they could nail stakes to her abdomen? If she has this much power, like what? Well, and by the way, this is like you remember how we were debating whether iron mattered in this world. This is why you think I think this means it does. Those were iron nails.

47:09 They were. Iron nails. They were definitely iron nails. But your point is the same. If I'm more and I'm I'm Reese and I've got iron nails in me, I'm ripping them out and then I'm. Healing them out. I'm healing exactly like iron nails faving maybe, maybe faving, but still, how did they even like capture her to do this?

47:31 You know what I'm saying? What were the what was the circumstance that led to this? I mean, there clearly was one, but like we have both been told how powerful she is and now been given an example where she was taken down. Like it seems like not that difficult, Lee. So I don't know. Some open questions, Sir.

47:46 Eris, we get a bit of an explanation in Akawar, Eris says. I'm just seeing if I need to read this whole quote. I don't, basically, Eris says. This is when they're in the Hewn City, making the alliance with Kier that more so upset about more snarled, rattling the glasses. You never gave any evidence to the contrary. The contrary, that you're a bastard. Certainly not when you left me in those woods. Eris said.

48:09 There were forces at work that you would never have considered, Eris said coldly. And I'm not going to waste my breath explaining them to you. Believe what you want about me. So that's an Aqua work. Chapter 26. And then in Frost and Starlight, we actually get this story from Moore's point of view. And I kind of just want to go through this in like some detail because I think there's some important things here. So six people find her dumped at the Autumn Court border. The quotes for that are light, steady steps crunched on the leaves.

48:35 Six sets, a border guard, a patrol help someone to help. A male voice, foreign and deep, swore and then went silent. Who's the male? Who is this man? Thorin and Deep? It's not Eris because Eris talks later and Moore says she recognizes his voice. So who whose voice is specifically kind of being called out to? Could just be a guard kind of weird way to put it though, and specifically call out that it's foreign. So it was. 6 steps.

48:59 I don't feel like it's clear whether there's six people or seven people here because we hear 6 steps and then one step of steps approaches. I kind of assumed it was the brothers and I hoped that the one who was trying to save her was Lucian. Could be. Certainly could be. But also, why wouldn't she have met all seven sons of Baron by this point?

49:20 Yeah, I think she was. I agree. No, I agree. Yeah I don't have an answer to that question also like that I'm just posting that like it's an interesting thing to interesting details put in there. So the quote the next quote don't touch her those steps stopped. It was not a warning to protect her defend her. She knew that voice had dreaded hearing it no one touch her. He said heiress so she recognizes Eris voice the moment we do she's our responsibility.

49:44 So it's not that he doesn't want to help her, that he doesn't want to take responsibility for her. And we kind of why? A pale, beautiful face appeared above her, blocking out the jewel like leaves above, unmoved, impassive. I take it you do not wish to live here more again. She would rather die here, bleed out here. She would rather die and return, return to something wicked and cruel and shed them all apart.

50:08 Sorry, shred them all apart. What? But then she directly follows up with. But that was not her gift. Yes, she said. But that was not her gift. Her gift was what got her into this situation. Her first gift that left her here. Yeah. Which is so interesting, right, Because how did your gift, I mean, I guess your gift got you there because you were so desired that your family then, you know, nailed spikes to you when you sullied yourself. But like.

50:31 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Your gift didn't really get you there like your own, you know, decision to go fuck Cassie and then your terrible families decisions following got you there, Yeah. We get another quote here. She wished she could grow claws. Oh, this is the quote. She wished she could grow claws.

50:50 Grow claws as Reese could and RIP out that pale throat. But that was not her gift. Her gift had left her here broken and bleeding. So actually, we have two different things, right? We have returning as something wicked and cruel, which sounds a lot to me like, like Ameren, right? Kind of like shedding her mortal mortal coil, mortal body and becoming something else, right.

51:10 So I thought that was interesting. And then, yeah, she can't shape shift, so she wished she could grow claws. She can't do that. Her gift, her gift had left her here. And she, I mean, we have this other quote which we talked about before. I am the Morgan. You know me what I am. You know that my gift is truth there. She literally says her gift is truth versus her power, right? So like she said, her gift had left her here. And she says her gift is truth, but she says she is desired because of her power.

51:36 I assume in battle that shook the mountain. So I don't think that quite adds up if we are taking these words at face value. Basically, Yeah. So like, how did her gift of truth be for here? I don't know. Someone is fighting on Eris on this. Someone behind him blurted. We can't just leave her too. We can and we will.

51:53 Eris said simply, but that dissenting voice cut in again. Move out was the solution. Maybe, Which means Lucian might know, kind of have some insight into what actually happened that day. I don't know, but it could be Lucian. All right, anything else to add? That's that was all kind of context. Anything else to add there? No, you covered.

52:09 You covered everything that I had on context. Yeah, cool. Okay, couple small ideas, then some big ideas. So other things we know about Eris, his father seems to torture him, right? So the quote we get about that is always mixed truth and lies. General, didn't those warrior brutes teach you about how to withstand an enemy's torture? Cassian knew.

52:29 He'd been tortured and interrogated and never once broken. Baron tortured you? Eris rose, tucking his book under an arm. Who cares what my father does to me? Cassian unpacked each word. Baron had tortured his own son for information rather than than thanking a mother for returning him, but Eris had held out fed Baron another lie.

52:45 So we know that his father tortures him. That's at the end of Silver Flames, by the way. You know, his father tortures him. We know his parents have a very unhappy marriage. You know that his mother had an affair with Helion. We know he wants to overthrow his father. He doesn't like his father. He doesn't want anything to do with his father. So simplest answer here is that there's two kind of simple answers here because Baron wants this. Eris does not want it, right?

53:09 Because he secretly hates his father and wants to do everything in his power to not follow his father's agenda. That's option 1. And when he kind of saw this opportunity, he was like, OK, this is how I can get out of this. This is how she can get out of this. And everything will be better if we don't do this. It's kind of option one, Option 2. Eris knows a lot of things.

53:29 We've talked about this. Eris seems to know a lot of things we don't know. How does he know that Moore prefers females, right? And does he not want to put her in that situation? I definitely think he does, too. It's like heavily implied later. Yeah, I didn't pull the quote, but he like says that he knows the secret of Moores and I'm 99% sure that it's. That yeah, so the quote for that is. Eris looked between them, smiling faintly, secretly, as if he knew something that Azrael didn't. Which is that more like females, right, So I wouldn't have touched you.

53:58 He said to more, who blanched again. But when you fuck that other bastard. A snarl, snarl ripped from Reese's throat at that. I knew why you did it. Again, that secret smile that had more shrinking. Shrinking. So I gave you your freedom, adding the betrothal in no uncertain terms. So like, yeah, he, he had already ended the betrothal. So that was kind of like good for Eris. But then, as Reel points out, and what happened next? As Reel growled, a shadow crossed Eris's face. There are a few things I regret.

54:24 This is one of them. But perhaps one day, now that we are allies, I shall tell you why, what it cost me. So like, Eris does end the patrol, though. We talked about that. But then he still leaves her in the woods, right? So now I'm going to get into the big theories, if that's OK. So other forces at work, right?

54:43 Aris says there's other forces at work. And Moore says she wants to return to something wicked and cruel. The words wicked and cruel are only used once actually in all of ACOTAR, and they're used to describe the first gods, which we now know as the death gods. So the quote for that is when you lived in the human world, this is from Cassian. When you lived in the human world, you had legends of the dread beasts and fairies who would swat slaughter you if you they ever breached the wall, didn't you? Things that slithered through open windows to drink the blood of children.

55:12 Things that were so wicked, so cruel, there was no hope against Jesus. They're evil. They're based on truth, based on ancient near primordial beings who existed here before the high faced, went to courts before the High Lords. Some call them the first gods. They were beings with no almost no physical form, but a keen vicious intelligence. So is more tied to one of these beings. Let me make wait.

55:33 Hold on. Yeah. Things that were so wicked, so cruel, there was no hope against their evil is more tied to one of these beings, right? Is she one of them herself? Is she a first God slash death God in disguise? Or perhaps a descendant of a first God? Again, we talked about Nesta, about Lanthus giving the vision of Nesta being pregnant so it could more be tied to one of these first gods.

55:55 Did heiress leave more in the woods because he knows she has that power and he was kind of scared or worried about like activating that power out of her because again, we haven't seen it. I don't know. I think that's all a little weak. However, I want to bring in Irish mythology here for a second. There's a book, The Celtic Myths, a Guide to Ancient gods and legends that I actually did download and look through. The Morgan and Celtic mythology is the goddess of war and death, and she is often called the death goddess, literally called the death goddess, right?

56:24 So like this name was chosen intentionally and Morgan is a death goddess. So like is does more have a tie to the deaf gods? I have more thoughts about it in our next question, but what are your thoughts? I agree. I'm thinking about actually so so Moore's, we're going to talk about this in the next question, but Moore's family ruled before the courts were formed and also before the courts were formed I think was when the Daglin and these deaf gods were kind of like running rampant.

56:54 So I definitely think that she could have traces of that within her, if not be a direct descendant. It would make perfect sense because she was literally royalty. I guess the question is, I like I keep anchoring on like this, this line by Eris. That's like the moment we do, she's our responsibility.

57:12 Like what about Moore and the current political environment makes Eris not want to take responsibility for more because like, clearly she's a bargaining chip, right? I. Don't know. Yeah. So like, I either he recognized her power and it was something he didn't want responsibility for, or he recognized her power and is actually trying to help her because Baron recognized what he like.

57:38 Baron recognized. Hey I really need this. I like that idea. Actually. He wanted. That with her. Out of Baron's hands, no matter what. Right. And that would be more consistent with like how we feel like Eris is developing his character. Like there's greater forces at work. Maybe that greater force was not Baron himself. Like that's not really a greater force, but like someone that Baron was working with, you know, we know that he was in talks with Hybrid at one point.

58:00 Maybe he's got other stuff. Going on, yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense, making sure that more cannot be used as a weapon for Baron or for her ever Baroness allying with. I think that makes a lot of sense. And he saw that. Go ahead. It couldn't have been that elaborate on Eris's part because it's not like he could have made her.

58:19 He didn't make her go fuck Cassian. Right? Like he didn't do that, No, but opportunity presented. Itself. Yeah, like he could have saved her and he was like, can't touch her, Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. I think that makes a lot of sense. I like that, but on the death God thing like that could that could just explain her power? Honestly, yeah.

58:40 We will talk about it more in the next question. All right. Anything else on this one? No, Ronnie. Why does the King of Highburn call Moore a queen? Because she is 1. So I mean, I don't have a very long answer for this one, but it's interesting to ponder to your point on on death gods and what being royal meant. So Moore's family ruled quote the north before the night court was formed.

59:08 So we have a quote from Reese, this place, I believe he's talking about the prison, but I don't exactly remember. Was made before high Lords existed before Prithean was Prithean. Some of the inmates remember those days, remember a time when it was Moore's family, not mine, that ruled the North. So what did we learn here?

59:24 We learned that Moore's family ruled the North. So there was still like there were still sections of the island that were ruled by people at this time. We also know that she, I mean, we, I guess we don't know this for sure, but I imagine that the beginning of courts and the formation of courts was the end of Moore's family lines rule.

59:44 Do you also interpret it that way? Could be. No, I didn't, but I think that's an interesting. I'm with you. Yeah, I don't think we have any reason, but that couldn't be true. But I'll go back and check myself on that and include it and omission if I'm wrong. And then and then the that obviously the prison was created at the time of Moore's family being in power, which is interesting, right? Because we know that it is keyed to Reese's blood. Anyways, if the courts had never been formed, Moore's line would have theoretically still ruled that area of the land, I guess as high kings and high Queens.

1:00:19 But I don't really understand how that works because because you're not really queen of all of the land. So I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting. We know. Well, we know there was a high king, the. Other was a high king, but he was a high king of everything. Right. So, but then so, so we're, so we're being, we're getting 3 errors of history here, right? Because we have a high King at one point that ruled over all of Prythian.

1:00:43 Then we have Moore's family that ruled in the North. Unless it's meant like a steward type situation and they reported up to the High King. We don't. Know which is possible, yeah. And then we get the the courts. Yeah, I don't know. That's really. Interesting, but even even like today in present day Parthian Reece actually also calls Moore a queen.

1:01:05 And that direct quote is when he's explaining Moore's role. He says as my third, Moore is my court overseer. She looks after the dynamics between the Court of Nightmares and the Court of Dreams and runs both Thelaris and the Hyun City. I suppose in the mortal realm she might be considered a queen and there are multiple Queens in the human realm as well.

1:01:25 So like maybe she was just queen in the north. She would have been queen in the north, so. Queen of the North. That is my ACOTAR only answer to this question. OK, I have a little more. OK, that's OK. All right. So first of all, to go back to Irish the Celtic mythology, Morrigan literally means great queen and what the king of hybrid says is what a great queen you are.

1:01:47 So more can either mean nightmare or great and Regan means queen. This is I got from a YouTube channel called the mysteries of mythology. So she could either be a nightmare queen or a great queen, right? The quote from the king of hybrid is she froze, she stopped a foot from the throne, her knife clattered to the floor. The king rose.

1:02:04 What a mighty queen you are. He breathes. So I'm sorry, I guess he says mighty queen, not great queen and more backed away step by step. What a surprise, the king said that Blackie is devouring her. The King of Highborn has a very similar interaction with Striga, which kind of got my belts going.

1:02:20 So when he faces off against Striga right before he kills her, How beautiful you are. He murmured, his voice is seductive. Croom. How magnificent, Ancient One. She brushed her dark hair over a slim shoulder. You may bow, King. As it was once done right? So he's bowing to her, the King of Highborn. I mean he doesn't do it, but the King of Highborn walked right up to her, smiling down at streak his exquisite face, and then he took that face in his broad hands faster the she can move and snapped her neck.

1:02:46 So in both situations we have the king saying how amazing are you to like a female? So he says like what a prize to more and like how beautiful you are to Streaka. I thought was was interesting. The bone Carver calls his sister queen when talking about Nestor, right. So the bone Carver calls Trigger a queen.

1:03:04 He says a queen as my sister once was terrible and proud, beautiful as a winter sunrise. So we have two similar situations here where the King of Hyburn is approaching a female of great power, treating her with reverence but still threatening her, right? Like whatever. We understand when the King of Hyburn treats Triga with that reverence, but he kind of does it to Moore too, right?

1:03:24 And what is it in Moore that causes him to stop and say this to her, right? Striga's powers. Let's talk about them, my sister. So this is in Akroar chapter 3023. My sister, she had found a way to eat life itself to stay young and beautiful forever thanks to the live she steals. When Feyra meets more, she says she was the most beautiful female she has ever seen, right? She says if Sam was the most beautiful male I'd ever seen, she was his female equivalent.

1:03:52 And we have Striga who has found a way to stay young and beautiful by eating life itself. Here's my kicker. Striga had the Uroboros originally, right? So Sister had a collection of mirrors and her black castle. The Carver said she admired herself day and night in those mirrors, gloating over her youth and beauty.

1:04:08 There was one mirror. The Uroburra, she called it. It was old, even when we were young. A window to the world. All could be seen. All could be told through its dark surface. Kier possesses it. An heirloom of his household. An heirloom of his household. OK, bring it to me. That is my price, The Uroboros. And I am yours to wield if you can find a way to free me. How to cure?

1:04:28 Get the Euro Burroughs, when Strega had it, it's an heirloom of his household. Are they in the same household? Has it just been passed down through the generations? And the Euro Burroughs kind of also linked to truth. That shows you who you truly are, right? It's kind of the same idea. It kind of has that power, too.

1:04:46 It's also a secret that Kir has it right. He says when Pharah says give me the erburos, Kira says, who told you that I have it right? Kind of implying some nefarious origins here. Yeah. So I think in my mind there's evidence that Striga is Morris ancestor. A little more mythology, just to sprinkle this in here. Striga obviously like heavily associated with loom imagery. So the bone Carver says, did you steal from her? Did she weave a thread of life of your life into her loom? The Weaver of the wood, my heart thundered, blah blah blah. The Morgan obviously fates often have a loom, right? Like Fates in mythology often have a loom. The Morgan and Irish mythology also associated with fate. So she kind of had this, has

1:05:32 this fate power and this battle power. So like the Morgan and Striega are kind of like 2 similar mythological beings here, obviously from different, I believe Srika is Russian and the Morgan is obviously Irish. But they both have kind of these like fate connections. I'm not 100% on that. Don't, don't quote me on that.

1:05:48 But we, I, we are getting like loom connections through the mythology. So. Yeah. Interesting. So you think that the Morgan is that more as a queen because she's descended from Srika, who is also a queen? I do. I like it. Yeah, I think that I think that her family has the euro Burrows because her family has always had the euro Burrows.

1:06:07 I agree. I agree with that statement. Yeah. Cool. OK, Abby, what does Moore see at the end of A Court of Frost and Starlight? All right. Just a little bit of context setting here in case you guys don't. Remember, this is good. So Moore is at Athlewood, her secret fucking Manor, described as 300 pristine anchors northwest of Valeris, a land of rolling hills and burbling streams, of ancient forests and crashing seas. If we are going with the Aprytheon as the British Isles, then we are deep into the Scottish Highlands at this point very much, and that's not really important, just to kind of paint the picture for you for what the scenery look like. Yeah, she is riding a.

1:06:53 Mare a big ass piece of property to keep secret from everyone. So fucking rude, like like Reese is like housing her and she's just like. In a townhouse. Yeah, like what? Yeah, I actually think maybe it's not clear if Moore lives there. I don't know. I'm not clear on where at. Any yeah, I don't think she actually does, but she is allowed to winnow directly in. She and Reese are the only people and Pharaoh. Which would mean that Sri guys, also Reese's descendant, which we did talk about, we did talk about that. I like this more and more.

1:07:25 Yeah. I think we're on that. Yeah, yeah. All right, so she's riding a mayor named Elia, who she describes as flowing as fast as the West wind. We're getting that western wind again. Don't know who this western wind is. Excited to meet him or her, or they when they appear. So the quotes we have for this, she's about to go to the continent.

1:07:45 She's kind of contemplating that decision, whether or not she actually wants to go. Even in these woods, ancient terrors had been known to emerge, but more scented. Nothing saw, nothing. The tendril of power she speared towards the woods revealed only the usual birds and small beasts, A heart drinking from a hole in an iced over stream.

1:08:01 Nothing except there between a snarl of thorns, a patch of darkness. It did not move, did not seem to do anything but linger and watch. Familiar and yet foreign. Something in her power whispered not to touch it, not to go near it. Even from this distance, more obeyed, but she still watched that darkness in the thorns as if a shadow had fallen asleep amongst them. Not like Azriel, shadows twining and whispering something different, something that stared back, watching her in turn. My only thoughts on this is that this is Kostre. Like Kostre is kind of like sending out spies because he appears in shadow, right?

1:08:34 So we read these we read these quotes in the Azrael episode. But the being that stood atop the lake was a shadow. It must be a reflection, Cassian thought. Smoke and mirrors. It can make out nothing of him beyond the shadows of his form. Even Azrael's own shadows kept tucked behind his wings even though he's confined to his lake. We talked about this last time.

1:08:52 He clearly knows the comings and goings of the world. If he's like as go listen to our Azrael episode. I know that she says these aren't like Azrael shadows, but if he has similar powers, can he send his shadows to spy? Or again with the western wind, she specifically calls out that her mare is writing as fast as the western wind.

1:09:10 Like is the western wind out here spying on more and more is about to go to the continent right where Koche is? So is Koche like sending out feelers, seeing what's good? Are we getting a more Koche plot line? I mean, I think we have to be like, Moore is already on the continent. It seems like we're going to the continent. Yeah, I think we're going to the continent. Interesting.

1:09:31 I like the idea that it's Koche, especially with all the other connections and that they were just kind of amicably looking at each other. I totally thought it was Bree Axis. It was still loose in the wild. Yeah, that's true. In which case it's super interesting that Bree Axis would just be peaceful watching, just looking, but it would make a little bit more sense with Bree Axis's aura. All Breex wanted to do was look out a window. But if it's Briaxis, how fucking interesting that it doesn't appear as a nightmare tomorrow and that it just appears as blackness.

1:10:02 And she just sees it exactly as it is. Yeah. So is blackness, is just darkness the nightmare, or is she just looking at it? I tend to think she's just looking at Briaxis and seeing Briaxis, which like potentially nobody has ever done. And we I mentioned that one of the names from Morgan is Nightmare Queen, right? And if Briaxis is a creature of nightmares? It's like a member of her house.

1:10:25 It's her son. This is my son. Pulling this thread for just was like loose and just went up to her estate because it was like where else am I going to go? I'm going to go to. This is mine by birth. I'm. Going to go to my lady's estate because I have nowhere else to go. That's such a sweet thought. Yeah.

1:10:44 So I'm choosing to believe it's pre access until told otherwise. Yeah, I just left undisturbed. Yeah, no, I like that. And that would make more sense too, right? Because she says not like Azrael shadows. And we talked last episode about how we think Azrael and crochet shadows are probably fairly linked.

1:11:01 Yeah, this is me just pulling my own heartstrings at this point, but it says as if a shadow had fallen asleep amongst them. So what if Brax just taking? A nap. He's just taking a nap. He's just taking a nap. He's just enjoying his freedom. Yeah, yeah, that'd be nice. That would be nice. Even crochet sending out feelers I suppose. I'm choosing to believe it was free access. We'll find out.

1:11:27 All right, that concludes unless we have a precog. Nope, no precog. All right, wait, is yours available? I can talk about it. I think I haven't written this down, but it's kind of a thought I've had. OK. And again, for our listeners, if you listen to our last episode and caught our precog, precog is kind of our place for our wildest theories with very little textual evidence.

1:11:50 Precog is a term and 4th wing. So this is just kind of about having fun with with theories. The Morgan in Celtic mythology is a shapeshifter. She most typically appears as a crow before battle. The cover of Mist and Fury has a crow holding a ring, right? And obviously we meet Reese. Well, we meet Reese and ACOTAR, but like, we meet the full inner circle in Mist and Fury. But we have a crow holding a ring. I believe the ring is Feyra's wedding ring. Is it from Tamlin?

1:12:21 Is it Tamlin's wedding ring, though? Or is it Reese's wedding ring? Hold on, I'm going to get it. I think it's. I think that it is Reese's wedding ring because there is like, current one. Yeah. There's a little image of a star in there, right? Yeah. And we now, of course, that Striga has the ring.

1:12:38 So is this is this more holding the rig that's shriek? Like, I don't know, I don't know, it's a freak cog theory, but like, why the fuck is there a crow on the cover of this book? My normal person interpretation of that is that Shrieka basically is likened to a crow because she's feeding on the dead at all times.

1:12:57 Like she has a house that's basically a treasure trove of. Dead body parts. Of dead body parts, yeah. But to your point, the fact that Morrigan is tied to Crow can tie her to Shrika. Yeah, and more specifically says she can't shift, so she's not a shifter. But I still think this imagery is interesting.

1:13:17 Yeah, I like it. Cool. All right, that's our Acutar precog and our Acutar section. All right, so from here, if you have not read Crescent City or Throne of Glass, what you do is totally up to you, but you will be spoiled. We are warning you now, you will be spoiled for every book in the mass verse potentially nothing is off of it. So if you want to hang around, I know some of you do, that's great.

1:13:35 We love to have you. If you do not, then love you. Bye and see you next week. Love you. Bye. All right, Mass first cosms, do you have any? Do you wanna do the Bloodhound quote that you found? Sure. All right, so let's talk about this theory. All right, so Ronnie mentioned a theory a couple of episodes ago.

1:13:53 I thought it was a really good one about Farrah being a Bloodhound because Farrah is the only one who can tell that Lucian is Helian's son. For context, in Crescent City, Danica Fender is a Bloodhound and what that allows her to do is smell bloodline so she knows who is related to who. I will tell you right now, I put this quote on Instagram maybe a week ago. It is currently by a mile our most viewed clip. People are losing their fucking minds about this, which is funny.

1:14:22 So there's a quote in Miss and Fury chapter 32. This is when Reese and Feyre are getting ready to visit Tarkin in the Summer Court and Feyre is refer. I want to be clear, Feyre is referring to herself as how Summer Court would see her, not how she sees herself. Because we've gotten some comments on this.

1:14:38 So as Reese's newest pet, again, that is how Summer Court sees her, not how she sees herself. I would be granted tours of the city and the high Lord's personal residence. If we were lucky, none of them would realize that Reese's lap dog was actually a Bloodhound. So she literally uses the word Bloodhound to describe herself. We have gotten some comments.

1:14:58 We've gotten some comments like, well, she's referring to her ability to kind of like sniff out the the book. Maybe, maybe like that could totally work. But. Yes, but this is also definitely Sarah James having fun. I think so Farrah. It immediately detects that Lucian is Helian's son, and in another series that Sarah J Maas has written, that talent is called Being a Bloodhound. Yep.

1:15:21 And she calls Pharaoh Bloodhound. Yes. So we have this quote we also had. I think this is really fun. Some people pointed out to me if she got this, if she has this power, did she get it from a high Lord and who did she get it from? I think it has to be Tamlin. I think it has to be Tamlin. I think it has to be Tamlin because his beast form, as we mentioned, is the sigil for the pack of devils in Crescent City, right?

1:15:45 So that would potentially imply a link between Tamlin and the Fender line. Also means he knows that Helion is Lucians father. Yes, which we've talked about. I mean, that really would explain the wolf link. And in Farah, one thing that we had also talked about when we were talking about bloodhounds and Danica is what drives this power. Danica's name means Morningstar.

1:16:07 Farah's got wolf imagery all over the place. Could that be just from Tamlin? And could Tamlin be linked to Danica? 100% totally fine. We also know that Farah is Starborn and Sirius is a wolf star. So what is going on with? Contacts tell people who Sirius is. Sirius is an Asteri in Crescent City and this is a lot of theories linking together, so maybe people aren't going to follow this. We believe that being starborn Faye just means that you have a steri in your bloodline.

1:16:35 We believe that Reese is starborn Faye and therefore has a steri in his bloodline. He passed that a steri blood and powers on to Farrah when he gave her a drop of his power. What if he's not the only source? What if the wolves also have Asteri in their blood because Sirius is a wolf star? Sirius the Asteri is described as a wolf star. And then we have these packs of wolves. I don't know.

1:17:02 Whatever, doesn't matter. No, I think it could be. Also, we have another Bloodhound in another series. This is just a Bloodhound segment we do at this point. It is Rowan. Rowan is a Bloodhound. Well, I thought you were going to talk about the Ilkin. No, I'm talking about Rowan, who looks at Adian and is like you are Gavin's son, no. Yeah, I do, people.

1:17:22 Gabriel's son. Sorry. Yeah, Gabriel. I do think that Rowan has potential to be a Bloodhound for sure, yeah. And in that, Caitlin, it can't only be wolf related because Rowan, Yeah, that's true. Famously a bird hawk. Can I just say that some of the Rowan memes social media? They're. So good. They're so good. They're so funny.

1:17:47 They're so just like, is that Rowan? And it's like an absolute bug eyed bird sitting up in the corner of the image. Yeah, that was it. I just wanted to do the Bloodhound 1 and you found the quote, so I wanted you to say it. That's it, Yeah. I'm totally sold on this theory. Cool. All right, I have one omission for the question. What does Moore see at the end of A Quart of Frosted Starlight? I think there's another possibility here from the Mass 1st, and that is I don't think anyone's going to be surprised. A Polygon, right?

1:18:16 So the void, we the void. The void. She's seen the void yeah she's like a Polygon appears to Reese in black shadow he it's so similar to the way that Reese just or sorry that rune sorry hunt hunt hunt in shadow and it's really similar imagery really similar verdict right so not rune shadows the Princeton seemed to be able to access those when constrained by the Gorsian shackles blah blah blah.

1:18:43 This shadow was different, darker, older, watching them watching Hunt and for more shadow, we said for familiar. And yet Florence, something in her power whispered not to touch it, not to go near it. Maybe it's not that similar. But either way, we have the familiar yet foreign and staring back imagery we have watching them watching Hunt, etcetera.

1:19:05 So like the idea of a shadow that kind of stares back. Yeah. And that turns out to be a Polygon whose power is the void. Other people think this too. Other people think that more saw Polygon in the census. I think there's we get, we got we got like 8 sentences about this. But I think there's just as much evidence. It could be a Polygon, it could be Koche, it could be pre axis, it could be any of these things.

1:19:26 Yeah. They're all fun to think about. I guess if the shadows aren't like as reels then do we have to question our connection between Azrael and Hell? No, I think it's pre axis. I'd rather think that it's pre axis. OK. She calls it a patch of darkness first, right? And then she says as if a shadow had fallen asleep amongst them.

1:19:45 So is she actually seeing a void rather than shadows? Then shadows, yeah. Which would point to a Polygon, or, as you pointed out last episode, our babe Cormac. Our babe Cormac. That would be fun. I mean, he's dead, but he's dead. Yeah, sad. OK, Anyway, all right, Ronnie, where do Moore? 'S powers come from this is a loaded fucking question in my opinion, seeing as we have so many questions about what her power actually is.

1:20:14 But I have two two things I want to talk about and then I think the third you're definitely going to get into. I'm hoping you're going to get into to the third. So the first thing that I want to talk about is the fact that Moore's power came upon her first bleed. We talked about this already. The moment my first blood came, I power awoke in full force and even that God's damn mountain trembled around us. In Throne of Glass, witches get their power upon their first bleed.

1:20:43 Asterin reveals this in Throne of Glass. She says the witchlings who were your age at the time never even had the chance to fly. The power doesn't set in until their first bleed. At least now they have the wyverns. Croak and Queens in particular, just as an aside, are given a red cloak upon first bleed.

1:21:00 Is that how you say that, Croakin? I think it's Croakin that's. Way better than Croakin, which is what I've been saying. I think it's Croakin. Let's go with Croakin if we're if we're going. With like Anglo-Saxon slash Gaelic pronunciations. I think the chapter is supposed to be hard. It just sounds better that way. Let's go with Croakin, OK?

1:21:20 Or maybe Croakin, I don't know. I'm going to go with Croaken. We'll go with Croaken. Anyways, Croak and Queens in particular are given a red cloak upon first bleed as well, so these witches and Throne of Glass are getting their power on 1st bleed. They're also in it for Croak and witches specifically are getting their red cloaks more.

1:21:40 As an aside, wears tons of red all the time. A lot of red being worn by this woman. As we know, witches are offspring in in Throttle Glass. Witches are offspring of Valg. And say we don't know a ton about Moore's lineage in the Court of Nightmares. Like direct lineage. We talked a lot about the Death God lineage. But we do know that Lord Thanatos needs assistance with his daughter and Kira goes to help him. Thanatos is the name of a Prince of Hell. So we're getting witchy vibes.

1:22:12 We're getting witchy vibes. We're also getting potential evidence of hell who we believe to be Valg. I just believe that they're the same at this point in Prythian in the Court of Nightmares, specifically where Moore's line lives. So could she be a witch? Could there be some sort of hell interference here?

1:22:31 I don't know that I believe that Lord Thanatos just like is Thanatos bopping around Prythian, but at least we know that his name has been in the right. His name has been dropped. Hello there is hell involved. So maybe Moore's power, like whatever that power is that we've not seen yet, is witch related, specifically the witches from Throne of Glass. One other point that could support this is that we haven't seen that power yet.

1:22:58 And in Throne of Glass, famously, these witches don't really release that power until the yielding when they die. So to Reese's note on Moore, I'll call in more. Once Cassian and Azrael are dead, could her power be which power that could be released in the yielding, at which point Moore would not give a fuck whether she lived or died.

1:23:18 Cassian and Azrael are dead, she could release whatever power she had because she would not want to be alive anymore at that point and Reeks would say hey Moore it's time for you. I'm calling in my third. So could more be which .1? Can I add a supporting quote for this? Theory. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead and react. OK, in that scene we were just talking about with Atha Wood, I may have even read this quote.

1:23:38 She hears the wind call to her basically, right. We have a quote that says, yes, her blood called to her. Go as far as wide as you can, go on the wind. Manon says to a lead in Queen of Shadows. You've never heard the wind calling your name. A lead lock in never felt a tug at you. You never listened to it and yearned to fly to the horizon to foreign lands. So that is something she says that the wind calls to witches. That's kind of like how you know your witches, a witch is that the wind calls to you to go.

1:24:05 And we're getting that with more here, right? Specifically, go on the wind. Right, yeah, so I'm going to do my pre cut corner theory now based off of what you just said. Is that cool? Great. Yeah. I think the western wind is a witch power. Here are the supporting items. Manon says she'd been 13, mere weeks past her first bleeding, which had brought about the zipping current of power that called to the wind that flowed through the brooms and carry them into the skies. More is going to the continent, and her blood literally calls to her, like you just said, to go on the wind. The quote that you just said about a lead hearing her name on the wind, and Merrill says she's descended from the western wind. Who's to say that Merrill's not

1:24:46 a witch? Yeah, she does say it's a man, she said he says Lord Rabbath. But there are, there are male, especially with the male witches. Croakins. Yeah, they're male witches. Yeah, they're male witches for Croakin. Yeah. So again, this is I did my pre code corner theory early, it made sense. But like, is the Western wind a witch power?

1:25:04 The wastes are western. The Western wastes are the home of both the Croakin and the Iron Teeth, which is, I don't know. Yeah. More to more to tell. All right, point #2 I want to talk about her truth power. Moore has this power of truth we haven't really seen. I don't think too much of it yet. Like, we know that she speaks truth to get trust of the Queens. And she like, seems to ingest something that Elaine says and discern whether it's true.

1:25:29 And she has this artifact, the Veritas orb, that kind of supports her power of truth. There is another powerful artifact when wielded that has the power of truth as well. Damaris is the sword of Truth which is wielded by Gavin, who was the first king of Aderlin. Aderlin Aderlin How do I say Demaris Sword of truth is wielded by Gavin who is a human and the first king of Aderland. Alen used it for a time but she eventually returned it to its original house which is House Billiard. So legends claimed that when Gavin wielded Morris he would see only the truth and that was why he had been crowned king or something.

1:26:11 Could more and more his royal line. I know she's fae but have a link to Gavin and this like truth wielding power that Gavin had as well. Here's where that gets even more interesting. Remember a couple episodes ago we talked about the God of Truth in Queen of Shadows, that is so Alan sees Gavin's deathbed confession in the temple of the God of Truth.

1:26:36 And the temple of the God of Truth is carved from bones. And some people think, and I'm kind of on that train, that the God of truth is the bone Carver because the God of truth is not one of the gods that disappears at the end. He does not go through the word gate. He is older than that, right? If that God of truth is the bone Carver, and I don't know how this works with the bone Carver being a steri plaything. I want to be clear.

1:26:57 I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know. Or a steri pet. That again, ties Moore's line to the death gods, right? Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Because they're siblings. So these two things, this truth power that we see in Gavin's line and this witch power do converge in Throne of Glass, in Dorian and Manon, whose story we don't get the rest of.

1:27:20 But if bloodlines do flow through these worlds, I'm actually not really convinced that they do, to be honest with you. But. Bloodline, yeah. Do flow through these worlds like whatever Dorian and Mannons offspring would be would be Valg, Fay and human. Yeah, because. Because Manon is half Val Cafe as a witch, yeah.

1:27:41 Yeah, and Dorian's got whatever Dorian's got. I don't. Know the other way that more could be a witch as we traditionally say it as half Val Cafe, right? As we just said is instead of the bloodlines crossing over, Striga bleeds black. Striga could be Valk, right? So it could, but it's the same thing, right? Like she is a witch because she is half Valk Cafe and she has whatever powers come with that.

1:28:02 But it is not world walking as we've talked about. Yeah. And then the only other note that I had before we get to, I feel like the big conversation here, I at least feel like it's a big conversation here. I don't know how you feel is this concept of young and old voices. And I think you've brought this up and referenced a few of these.

1:28:19 When when Moore speaks truth, let's call it speaks truth, speaks her truth from the Veritas orb, with the Veritas orb, she speaks in this voice that's young and old. There are not a ton of things that have said things in young and old voices. First, is Deanna another God? We I don't feel like we've 100% landed on where Deanna fits in this world, but like, probably a story.

1:28:44 Probably a story. Yeah. Bummer to a voice that speaks to a lead discouraging her from touching the word. Key is young and old do not. Should be another that I think is a nice. Now I think it's another God. Another throne of plaster gun. All right, so more yeah Maeve, a female voice that was both both young and old, amused and soulless, purred.

1:29:05 Remove the hood Cairn Brie axis. Actually, I love. I don't know why I like Brie axis, but I in my head Brie axis is good can. I plug something real quick. There's this Instagram account called Jay Moon Jones. I don't know if you follow them, but she does this Brie Axis cartoons and she makes him basically like a little imaginary friend. Not imaginary like a real friend, but he's just like a little buddy Fernesta.

1:29:27 And there's one where pre Axis and Cassian and Nesta are in a bubble bath together. It's just like so. Cute. Yeah, that is cute. And then Amarin and the Cauldron. So of those things we have probably a Steri, definitely Valg, some sort of death God like entity. Whatever Amarin is, I'm not going to spoil that.

1:29:47 And the Cauldron, what is this? What's going on here? Otherworldly is what's going on here probably. All right. Do we want to talk about the Maeve of it all? Let's talk about the maid of it all. Let me just look through real. We got a little into my answer for the next question in this one, which is totally fine and we can just talk about it there as well. A couple things with the truth power. So the Veritas orb two things.

1:30:14 One, May Moore keeps it in an Onyx box Co shape famously has an Onyx box. So we are getting kind of a little more death God connections there. The way the Veritas orb works is by being connected to people's memories, right? So it does not, it is not a crystal ball. You cannot peer into it and like see what's happening. Like people play their memories through the orb, so we see it with Reese when he is showing Valeris to the Queens. Ferris says.

1:30:45 I could have sworn there was love in that image. I could not explain how the Veritas conveyed it, but the colors, I understood the colors and the light. What they conveyed with the orb somehow picked up from whatever link it had to Reese's memory. Moore shows Nesta the dances for her waltz with Eris through the Veritas, and then with Bryce.

1:31:04 Bryce thinks of the weapons, the wars, the battlefield she'd seen on television, the mech suits, the gun she'd learned to fire, the lessons with Randall, the power ridgeless had blasted down the hall after her. So it's, it's basically De Madi in a box, right? Like that's what it is. It is letting you see into people's minds.

1:31:21 It is not like all seeing, all powerful, all truthful, all knowing. So if Moore is a De Madi, she still could I I think she still could be, but I think it's just interesting to think she also has this thing that basically makes her a de Madi too, right? Like she, she has access to something that could give her insight into people's minds.

1:31:39 They have to be touching it, obviously, but I think that's just something to to think about. Here I have one other thing, that dark fire that her eyes simmer with. We only really have kind of one other example of this and that is Caltane Rompier, our girl. She has shadow fire, which is dark fire basically.

1:31:59 She originally had fire, but Erawan tried to turn her into the word gate and when the word key was put into her arms, it was corrupted and turned her fire black. So obviously I don't really think Caltane and Moore are connected, but I'm wondering if that means, as we are talking about here, Moore's power has similarly like dark origins basically, right? Like, yeah, it's all turning out that way, isn't it? All right, the mave of it all.

1:32:24 The mave of it all. I'm going to preface it with I don't buy into this theory at the start. I have a actually bullet by bullet explanation for why I do not think they are the same person, but okay, cool. I think it'll be interesting anyway, so let's get into it. Let's get into it. All right, so this was posted on our Discord. This is flying around the Internet. I think it deserves being talked about. There is a theory that Moore and Maeve are the same person because they are the same figure in Irish mythology. As far as I can tell, that is not true. As far as I can tell, Moore and Maeve are not the same. It's confusing, like mythologies are always confusing. They are similar figures, but

1:33:06 they are not the same thing. However, there are some interesting similarities and it seems like Sarah J Maas might have intentionally kind of switched some of their stories around and to give them kind of similar backstories, right. So the Morgan in Irish mythology is a triple goddess and one of three sisters. That sounds like Maeve, right?

1:33:25 So that is Morgan. I'm sorry on the pronunciations ahead of time here. Morgan, Mebda and Dogda. Sure, I'm saying that wrong, really sorry sounds a lot like Maeve, Mab and Maura, right? Maeve convincing people that she was sisters with Mab and more. So we have that triplicate goddess images. Typically the Morgan is to with black hair, black cloak, black imagery and Mave is depicted with lighter hair, blonde or red in nature with a red dress.

1:33:51 So like this is the opposite of what we have for sounding very more right. We are we have kind of switched these two other parallels between we have between Maven Moore. Both of them left their homes to escape marriages to cruel men, right. So obviously we talked about Moore and Eris and Maeve is running away from marriage with arrow on basically the king of Highburn says to Moore, what a mighty queen you are.

1:34:13 We talked about this, right. Maeve is a mighty queen. It may have also speaks with a voice that is old and young at the same time. So the so the theory is that as far as I can tell, the theory is basically that Maeve has come to Prythian, transplanted herself, planted herself basically into the minds of the night Court, convinced everyone in the inner circle that she is more the way that she convinced people that she was Maeve basically, and has now infiltrated the inner circle potentially. Here's why I don't really think it works and we did talk about it on our Discord, but I still don't really think it works. Like she was tortured by her family, right? We talked about this, she was

1:34:51 tortured by her family and we got her POV for it. Like we know that this was not good for her, was not easy. We specifically got her point of view from it in Frost and Shadow, right? And I admit it's hard to disprove this theory, right? Like it's kind of a crazy theory. It's kind of how. The theory, I mean, what Maeve did was basically just manipulate the minds of literally everybody, right?

1:35:11 So like, yeah, it's hard to disprove. I think it can. Our discarters argued that the reason why she let herself be tortured if she is Maeve is so that Azrael would swear the blood oath to her. And you kind of talked about this before right? Like her exerting an influence. However, Azrael and Reese work against Moore to secure the alliance with Eris.

1:35:32 Like Azrael is not like undyingly loyal to her. I know that Maze Cater isn't either, but like we haven't. Azrael still seems to be like trying to act with Moore's best interests at heart, but he like goes goes against her, right? But isn't that exactly what Lorcan does? It is what Lorcan does. It's definitely what Lorcan does. So I don't know.

1:35:52 She. She has not installed herself as a queen. She's not even Reese's second, right? She's Reese's third. That's not super Val Queen Maeve behavior. And the keywords for Maeve's power is dark power. That is kind of how Maeve's power is constantly described. We never get that for more. Those words are never used for more. I don't really buy it.

1:36:14 I don't really buy it, but I want to hear your bullet for bullet list. Why this? Doesn't work. I just don't think it works like unless we're changing the rules of the world, which if we are fine, I can get down with it and I reserve the right to change my mind here. But like as of what? As of what I know now, I don't think this works.

1:36:30 They have a similar life story, but I think that's points to more potentially being, you know, sleeper nefarious than them being the same person and the reason is Maeve lived. So here's Maeve story, right, because we need to understand Maeve story to understand how like this whole more narrative could possibly fit into it. Maeve lived in another world, her home well, in another world with three kings.

1:36:52 But then a queen quote appeared, not born. She appeared her power, a new dark song in the world, right? So then all three of these kings desired her, but she only deigned to ally with one the strongest orcas. They did wed, right? So they did get married. So this is not like this is not more story really, right?

1:37:11 Because Maeve actually married orcas, but Maeve was not happy. So she learned to world walk. I say she learned to world walk. I think it's important to say that because it says she appeared in this world, but she's learning to world walk in this world. So I don't think she could have walked at least intentionally into this world.

1:37:28 So more the whole more thing couldn't have happened before she came here. I don't think. So she then learns to world walk. She finds a way to Pierce The Veil and stepped into this next World. Irelia, the spiders telling the story basically says we followed her here. So that's Maeve story, right? Is she's in this world she gets married to the sky. She's not happy.

1:37:46 She figures out how to world walk and then she comes to Irelia and then that was the world where she died. Aylan killed her with golden with fire. So like Mave was in this World of Darkness with three kings did ultimately marry one then came into Irelia and died and so Moore was born and came of age in Prythian like she bled, she got her power. She refused to marry anyone.

1:38:09 She's still on wed. She reveals herself as as by with a emotional preference for women. So like unless unless we are saying that Valve can coexist and live in multiple worlds at one time and have different outcomes, I just don't know how they could be the same person. Yeah, well, we did talk about that exact thing potentially last episode, so I don't. With Erawan, yeah.

1:38:34 I just don't think there's enough to go. It's, it's just like a crazy fucking theory and I don't think there's enough for it or against it. Like, you could kind of speculate either way, you know? What is the quote where we learn that they can exist in multiple worlds? So it is about the Throne of Glass gods. But the quote is oh, but it's about the gods. It's about the gods.

1:38:54 But if we think the gods are the Asteri, and we know that the Princess of Hell and may have learned how to world walk from the Asteri, may have learned how to walk from the world walkers, which is what the Asteri called themselves. And the Princess of Hell learned the ways of the Asteri when they captured some of their commanders.

1:39:10 So the quote let me find it. But then you're assuming that the Valgon, the Asteria have the same ability to persist, which isn't. Which is there? I don't know. So if they are of the same kind of origin as we talked about, and then they split and the Asteri learned how to world walk and then the Vow learned how to world walk in the from the Asteri because they do have a lot of similar powers, then. Yeah, I think that could work.

1:39:33 But we are in wild speculation territory. But the quote is about the gods and throne of glass, not just gods, but beings of higher of a higher different existence for whom time was fluid. So that's number one. Time was fluid, and bodies were things to be shifted and molded. Who could exist in multiple places spread themselves wide like Nets being thrown. They were as mighty and vast and eternal as a human was to a mayfly, so she says, exist in multiple places. She doesn't say die and survive in multiple places. No, she doesn't.

1:40:05 She doesn't say that. It's a really trippy quote. It's a really fucking trippy quote. I don't know how to grab my head around it like. If, and maybe this is the case, but like if if the thought here is that these beings can be corporeal in four worlds at once and then die in one, and then not actually die, then I don't see an end to this plot line ever.

1:40:28 No, I don't know that it could against you, Yeah. I'm becoming increasingly more in tune with the idea that these are all different worlds layered on top of each other with different permutations of the same bloodlines, basically. In which case, like, yes, more could be made in that more is the same like this world's version of Maeve, like what Maeve was intended to be in this world.

1:40:53 They have very similar notes, they have different looks, they have different powers, but they're playing the same like role in this story. Just in this permutation, like Moore finds a way out of the marriage and Maeve did not. So she had to leave. And like that is interesting. But then you start to just like bend your brain because you're like, OK, everybody's got their own permutation.

1:41:13 And it works for like Reece and Rune to like Rune is just like the mid guard permutation of Reese potentially. But then you've got the but we know that interworld travel between Midgard and Perthian and then it'll just like fucking goes crazy. Exactly, Exactly. I don't know. I don't know if that we're not going to solve this tonight. But yeah, maybe more is made, but there's no evidence. There's really no evidence.

1:41:35 It's based on an Irish maid. That isn't true. Yeah, it's. Yeah, something is going on here. It does seem like she switched them. I think there's something interesting, but I do not think that this version of Moore is Maeve. Yeah, and also being 1000% original is really hard and we don't blame anyone for pulling on inspiration from mythology. And it's fine.

1:41:59 Yeah. OK. All right. Now that we've done the Maeve of it, OK. Abby, why does Moore's family have the Uroboros? OK. We already talked about the witch thing. Our listener Dylan sent us a theory a while back. I want to talk about that theory. I think it's interesting. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I think it's interesting.

1:42:17 So we talked about the yielding earlier. This is how this is a potential way that more could be a witch. Again, I don't know that I buy it, but I think it's worth talking about. Manon tells us about the yielding as the Iron Teeth, which yields life to the darkness. Its power fills her and unleashes her from from her in an Ebony wave, a manifestation of what lies in our souls. So when you are yielded, there is an Ebony black wave that comes out from you when the 13 do the yielding. And by the way, Dylan, I had to.

1:42:48 I started crying when I prepped for this, so I hope you're fucking happy. It was not darkness, but light. Light right and pure as the sun on the snow that erupted from Asterin. I don't even know if I'm going to get through this quote without crying. Light as Asterin made the yielding. As the 13, their broken bodies scattered around the tower in a near circle, made the yielding as well.

1:43:09 Light. They all burn with it, radiated it. Light that flowed from their souls, their fierce hearts, as they gave themselves over to that power, became incandescent with it. I think this is a manifestation of their souls. I think that's what's happening here. We are being shown that the 13 are not, they are not evil, they are light, they are beautiful. That is what they are.

1:43:26 However, there is a theory that because this was light and because light is sometimes associated with world walking, that what actually happened here is that the 13 world walked into the other worlds in the mass 1st and that Moore's mother is one of the 13. Maybe Asterin. I don't think this. I mean Moore's mother is not a strong character right? Like.

1:43:50 She's also terrible. Like, do we really want to think that about the third? Yeah, like I don't, I don't, I don't love it. Sorry, Dylan. Sorry, Dylan. I know it's not your theory. I know it's idea of the Internet. To be clear like I think the idea of them world walking could have legs but like the idea that Moores mother is one of the 13 when she like kind of sucks. She sucks.

1:44:12 She is like aligned with Kier on everything. She never protects her daughter. Like she fucking sucks. So I don't think she's one of the 13, but maybe it could have been one of Moore's like ancestors potentially. That is a way that this could have gotten into this world. The other hand, yeah. And the Archons.

1:44:29 Great point. I have some wild speculation here, but we know that the witches in Throne of Glass worship the three faced goddess. And as we mentioned before, Morgan is a triple goddess, right? So she has three sisters. When the gods go through the word gate in Throne of Glass, we are not given their names.

1:44:45 She, every God is described as the one with like a fucking friends episode. It's pretty annoying. So seems like there's only seven of them that go through the gate. Cough cough. Only 7 how many esteri there are? One of them is the one with many faces. There are two options for which God this could be.

1:45:03 This could be the three faced goddess. Could also be Tennis who is the God of wild things and shifters. Right? So I don't know. I don't know if the three faced goddess went through the word gate or not. If it is the three faced goddess, did she at some point end up in Prithean and is more her descendant and that is the tide of the witches because that is the God that the witches worship or something?

1:45:26 I don't know. I don't know, that's wild speculation. There's one other possibility here for how more could be a witch. I guess we're just spitballing. The witches believe in reincarnation right? So the quote is. So does more. And so does more, right? So the witches believe when they die, they are reborn within the Mother's womb. The quote we get for that is we'll collect the dead tomorrow. Manon said, her voice low.

1:45:49 And burn them at moonrise, as both crotch and iron teeth did. A full moon tomorrow, the Mother's womb. A good moon to be burned, to be returned to the three faced Goddess and reborn within. That one is more reincarnated witch, not by bloodline, but by reincarnation. Which is why she's so unlike anyone else in the human city, right? So it's not a bloodline thing, it's reincarnation. By the way, I feel like we should mention this. The reason we're talking about this with Why does Moore's family have the Uroboros is because it's a witch mirror. I thought you were going to talk about the witch mirrors. It's a witch mirror.

1:46:19 So on the other hand, I like the Striga thing. I think the Striga thing is like kind of more interesting mirror. But does that mean is Striga witch because the Uroboros is a witch mirror? I don't know. She has a castle full of mirrors. That sounds pretty witchy to me. Yeah, yeah. And so did Baba. Go to Baba.

1:46:36 Yeah, my first bullet is because it's a witch mirror lol. Yeah, with mirrors for our listeners and throne of glass are mirrors that harbor some form of power and sister mirrors can communicate. Just as an FYI. They can do all sorts of things. There's really no finite menu of flavors of witch mirrors. Whole bunch of shit they can do.

1:46:57 This one happens to show you your true self slash eat you alive. Yeah. And that's all I had for that. Yeah, OK. I just had, I had an explanation of which mirrors and what we know about them and where they all are. Like I think that's why does Moore's family have the Ora Boris because Moore is which probably.

1:47:17 Probably Moore is the one who tells Nesta about witches. Sorry, Moore is the one who tells Nesta about witches. Yes. And in I think in Prithee and all that, they're defined as is someone who's amassed power beyond their natural reserve. And that is how Moore defines them. Yeah, yeah. And that based on everything we've seen out of Moore, maybe she has power beyond her natural reserve because we've not seen hardly any of it. That's not fair.

1:47:43 We've seen a good amount of power from Moore. I'm not trying to imply that Moore has been useless, just compared to literally her power rattling a mountain. I don't think we've seen that quite yet. We haven't seen that, except for in that battle with Amarin. Whatever, it was all right. That was a lot of more.

1:48:01 You already did your precog. Yeah, I'm I'm good on precog. All right, my precog is exactly what you just mentioned, which mirrors can be used to spy on people, right? So the quote we have for Maeve, who? Maeve has these witch mirrors, right? You've seen yourself the power of witch mirrors, what it did to Alan Galifinius and Manon Blackbeak.

1:48:20 Who do you think taught the witch is such power? Not the fae. A small laugh. And how do you think I have been able to see so far? Hear the voices of my eyes all the way from Doran? Now there are mirrors to spy, to travel, to kill. Even now Aaron wields them to his advantage with the Iron Teeth. So this is interesting.

1:48:36 I didn't even really pick this up. They're not actually witch mirrors, they're fucking Valg mirrors. So that points me back to Strega, honestly. Well, I mean, the witches are also descendants of them, so I kind of think it's all like, we're all in the same family here. Yeah, for same bloodline, same family.

1:48:52 If Moore is descended from Shriga but has a lot of Faye in her, then she, by definition, if Shriga is Val, is witch. Yeah, it all works. So Farah is currently in possession of the Uroboros. Is the Uroboros being used to spy on her? I don't know. I don't know by who you mentioned last episode, Eris and the Autumn King Steiner, thank you, seem to be communicating somehow, potentially are which mirrors are which mirrors the way that they're doing that. I don't know.

1:49:20 He's got prisms all over the place. I don't remember if they're specifically a mirror in his study or anything. That would be really fun because because there would be an open question of like, if everyone's after the horn, clearly there's not a way to pass information to like move between worlds, so how would they be passing information? But a mirror could certainly do that. No, I mean Prithian seems I have this kind of precog theory that I have not said.

1:49:46 I guess Prithian seems to be like shielded from the forces that be for whatever reason, right? Because the Daglin, the Astiri are desperately trying to get back to it and can't find it and the Mystics never find it, right? He has Revigilus has an entire army of Mystics searching for it and they can't.

1:50:05 So like, what is it about Prithean that is kind of like shielding it? What magic is that? What power, if anything? Or maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting because they can so easily find hell, for example, which is pretty well defended. Maybe it was something Celine left. I don't know.

1:50:23 I don't know. I don't know. Maybe like as long as dusk is like dead, it's like beacon is gone. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, I don't have an answer to that, but I like the idea of spying slash communication with the witch mirror. All right, so in conclusion, Moore is definitely a vow slash witch descendant, I think is where we've landed here, but we're thinking mass first wise. I'll throw out one more precog corner theory that I had a thought on how it could work and then I lost it. Maybe you can help me find it again. Moore is said to be Reese's only surviving family, which makes no sense because she has living parents. But she's Reese's only.

1:51:01 Oh. How is she Reese's? So there's only a couple ways that I can think of this works. And Reese says as my only remaining relative. And maybe it's Srika, OK, but that still wouldn't really work if it's passed down through her lineage. So Reese says more is my cousin in the loosest definition. But we were raised together. She's my only surviving family as my only remaining relative. So it's not like Moore's family is my only surviving family. It's as my only relative.

1:51:28 More belief she's entitled to breathe in and out of my life as she sees fit. So this only works if she were adopted or if she were like illegitimate and mothered or fathered by one of Reese's relatives. Which also doesn't really hold unless Reese is just lying because Reese says she's the only pure blooded title person in his inner circle. So could Reese's mother, who was Illyrian, be an illegitimate descendant of Keir's line?

1:51:54 Potentially. Like more just appeared. Or if more is naive, yeah, we're back to it. And Maeve and Reese look the same. But Maeve chooses to look that way. We got to talk about that at some point. Probably about Reese episode, That is. Those are choices that Maeve is making. Yeah, it's the name is a choice. The look is a choice.

1:52:17 It's all a choice. Yeah. You know who also makes a choice is Amarin. Can't wait to talk about Amarin. So like, do you see a way that this like any other way that it works? I think she just had to adopt it or appear. I think it's an oopsie. I think it's, I think it was a fuck off on Sarah J Mass's part. But yeah, let's say she appeared and she is Maeve. You guys win.

1:52:39 You win. She's Maeve. That's it. I don't know she could be Maeve guys, she could. I feel like this is an episode again with like not solid answers but we are definitely getting Vogue which death God clues with more so pointing in that direction. Which So basically now at this point our entire inner circle except that we haven't talked about, has Valk potential if we think the Princess of hell are Valk with Cassian. We never really solidified that link for Reese, to be honest. We might need to to revisit that in our research. Yeah, I think we certainly will revisit that. But like, yeah, Reese's power is described as dark power, like so many fucking times.

1:53:18 Like, yeah. But I actually think we might have answered it in Azrael when we talked about Thea's power and Adas's. Interesting. I'm intrigued. I haven't even really started thinking about it, but yeah. All right. So that's going to be a teaser for our Reese episode. We won't get that away now. Yeah, All right, I'm reading Kingdom of Ash. What are you reading?

1:53:39 Let's. Skip it, we're reading the same shit. We're reading the same shit we were reading last time. We are on social media. We are drag us in the details pod at TikTok, Instagram and YouTube. You can e-mail us at dragusinthedetailspod@gmail.com. We have that website nowdragusinthedetails.com. Reach out.

1:53:58 We love hearing from you guys. Always rate, comment, subscribe, review, etcetera. Love you. Bye. Etcetera. Love you. Bye.